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Speaker 1: On March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, two armed and masked

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Speaker 1: men robbed a bank in Saint Louis, Missouri, and fatally

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Speaker 1: shot a security guard named Richard Heflin in the process.

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Speaker 1: As part of their plan to destroy evidence innovade capture.

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Speaker 1: They had pre soaked the getaway van with gasoline, but

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Speaker 1: before they got to switch from the van to a

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Speaker 1: second getaway vehicle, the van caught fire. One assailant, Norris Holder,

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Speaker 1: was arrested at the scene, but the second assailant escaped.

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Speaker 1: Then was described as a black man about five to nine,

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Speaker 1: with singed hair and an injured right hand. Norris Holder

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Speaker 1: told investigators that the escape bee was named John, but

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Speaker 1: later changed that name to Bill. Police arrested an acquaintance

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Speaker 1: of Holders named Billy Allen. Other than being black, Billy

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Speaker 1: did not match the initial descriptions, but curiously was somehow

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Speaker 1: identified by four witnesses, including Holder. Imagine being selected for

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Speaker 1: this and hearing investigators testify about an alleged confession, as

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Speaker 1: well as that four witnesses, including the only other assailant,

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Speaker 1: identify Billy Allen. You might feel pretty confident in your verdict,

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Speaker 1: Yet here we are almost a quarter century later to

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Speaker 1: publicly reveal for the very first time case breaking exculpatory

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Speaker 1: evidence from the state's own files that was ignored by

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Speaker 1: both the prosecution and the defense that I mentioned, they

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Speaker 1: send them to death. This is wrongful Conviction. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction. Today, we're going to do something I

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Speaker 1: don't think we've ever done before, which is that we're

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Speaker 1: covering a federal death penalty case. And we're honored. I'm

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Speaker 1: honored to have Professor Mark Howard, leader of the Making

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Speaker 1: An exana reprogram at Georgetown. So Mark, Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 2: Great to be back, Jason, thanks.

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Speaker 1: And with Mark is his distinguished co professor who has

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Speaker 1: also been on the podcast before more than once for

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Speaker 1: the right and the wrong reasons. Marty Tankliffe was wrongfully

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Speaker 1: convicted himself and served seventeen years when Marty was wrongfully

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Speaker 1: convicted of murdering his parents, and of course he's been

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Speaker 1: exonerated and we've become great friends. And he also is

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Speaker 1: Mark's childhood friend and the co professor now at Georgetown

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Speaker 1: of the Making It exana reprogram. So Marty Tankliffe es choir.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Wrongful Conviction.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: You know, the fact that we're all here today is

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Speaker 1: a beautiful thing, but it's also an extremely troubling thing

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Speaker 1: because we're here today to talk about Billy Allen, who

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Speaker 1: has been on death row in the federal system for

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Speaker 1: a quarter of a century now, ever since he was

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Speaker 1: nineteen years old.

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Speaker 3: I appreciate you, you know, you all taking an interest in

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Speaker 3: my story and wanting to tell it.

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Speaker 1: Well, Billy, yours is a story that definitely needs to

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Speaker 1: be told, so welcome to the show. But before we

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Speaker 1: get into all the details, i'd love to hear about

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Speaker 1: your life before this horrible scenario took place.

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Speaker 3: You know, I grew up in a house with three

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Speaker 3: sisters on the north side of Saint Louis, which was

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Speaker 3: I guess you can say, flooded with drugs, a lot

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Speaker 3: of violence and stuff like that. Even though I lived

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Speaker 3: in the underprivileged neighborhood, I went to school in a

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Speaker 3: privileged neighborhood. Clayton, Missouri, is considered probably one of the

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Speaker 3: wealthiest places in Missouri. You know, no matter if I

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Speaker 3: go out to the Clayton School district and I'm around

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Speaker 3: rich people, I still have to deal with my surroundings

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Speaker 3: when I come home, You're like, where do I fit

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Speaker 3: in in things?

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Speaker 1: It sounds like you had a foothold in these two

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Speaker 1: sort of hoppers worlds of haves and have nots, which

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Speaker 1: sounds like you could be pretty confusing. So after you

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Speaker 1: graduated high school and leading up to March of ninety seven,

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Speaker 1: what were you up to.

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Speaker 3: To be honest with people, You know, I was hustling

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Speaker 3: at the time. You know, I wasn't a big drobe

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Speaker 3: dealer or anything like that. I was just hustling at

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Speaker 3: the time. But at the same time, I was trying

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Speaker 3: to find my way at the time, and that's why

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Speaker 3: I met the you know, the girl I ended up

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Speaker 3: with who I was going to move in with, you know,

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Speaker 3: because basically I was going to get a job, stop

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Speaker 3: selling drugs and just I guess you could say, start

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Speaker 3: my growth. Not only for her, but she had a daughter,

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Speaker 3: so I was trying to be better for all of them.

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Speaker 1: So you were at a crossroads, and it sounds like

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Speaker 1: you were choosing a more promising path. But your connection

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Speaker 1: to the old neighborhood happened to bring you into contact

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Speaker 1: with one of the actual bank robbers, in this case,

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Speaker 1: Norris Holder. You had met him through job corps once

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Speaker 1: and then had a chance encounter with him years later.

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Speaker 1: Apparently you had sold him some weed once or vice versa,

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Speaker 1: and it was this chance meeting and short lived hangout

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Speaker 1: just a few days before Holder committed this crime that

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Speaker 1: even put you into the realm of possibilities. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how well did you even know this older guy?

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Speaker 3: Well, I didn't know Holder per se. I guess you

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Speaker 3: can say the way they tried to, you know, sell

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Speaker 3: the story to my jury. When I was at the

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Speaker 3: club one day older I knew one of his friends

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Speaker 3: he was with, you know, just from my neighborhood, and

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Speaker 3: so you know, we end up just talking. So he's like, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, let's hook up one day just being cordial

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Speaker 3: with people. Plus up. Like I said, I knew the

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Speaker 3: guy he was with. Then a few days, you know later,

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Speaker 3: I get a call from him, you know, basically like

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Speaker 3: hey man, you know, I'm going to go to the

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Speaker 3: mall and you know, I got some weed and I'm like, okay,

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Speaker 3: well I'm in now. But for them to make it

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Speaker 3: seem like we were friend, we were plot in this

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Speaker 3: crime or anything like that, how can you say that

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Speaker 3: that I would involve myself, you know, in a crime

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Speaker 3: of this magnitude with somebody I didn't even know.

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Speaker 1: Right, it doesn't make a whole hell of a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense until you consider the investigators in this case,

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Speaker 1: one of whom Joseph Nickerson is on the Saint Louis

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Speaker 1: DA's do not testify list, which is, by the way,

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Speaker 1: exactly what it sounds like. He's not allowed to testify

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Speaker 1: in cases because he lies so much. He's the detective,

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Speaker 1: by the way, from another egregious, wrongful convictioning case out

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Speaker 1: of Saint Louis, Lamar Johnson, who is still awaiting justice.

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Speaker 1: And Lamar also did some drug dealing, as did Billy,

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Speaker 1: so they were typical targets for this Nickerson guy. In

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Speaker 1: Lamar's case, Nickerson fabricated a narrative from alleged witness statements,

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Speaker 1: but these witnesses later denied saying any of the things

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Speaker 1: Nickerson had attributed to them, So, you know, just sat

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Speaker 1: around just making shit up. He perjured himself to make

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Speaker 1: Lamar's culpability even plausible. And then there's a cash incentivized

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Speaker 1: eyewitness who was convinced by investigators that the mass gunman

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Speaker 1: in this case was Lamar Johnson. So he went along

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Speaker 1: with the ID, which you'll see in it a bit

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Speaker 1: sounds eerily similar to what happened in this case. Now,

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Speaker 1: I believe his partner, a guy named Carol, is actually

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Speaker 1: doing time now for assaulting someone who was in custody.

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Speaker 1: So it's patterns like these that give a helpful context

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Speaker 1: to what happened in Billie's case. So let's get to that.

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Speaker 1: The morning of March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, where were

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Speaker 1: you actually that paidful morning?

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Speaker 3: I had left the house early that morning, like at

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Speaker 3: eight o'clock in the morning. They claimed that I had

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Speaker 3: called holder and told them let's get ready for the

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Speaker 3: crime and all this stuff from the house. But how

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Speaker 3: can I call you from the house when I'm already gone,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I get to the mall early in

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Speaker 3: the morning, and my first stop is to the hat Zone.

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Speaker 3: So I went to foot Locker, and I went to

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Speaker 3: another story foot quarters, and right after that, I went

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Speaker 3: to Famous and Barb, which is a clothing store. I

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Speaker 3: went to this tuxedo place, and so as I'm shopping,

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Speaker 3: basically I see Chris Hiagog. Now Chris Chigag is a

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Speaker 3: security guard who was after the mall to pick up

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Speaker 3: his paycheck. He was like, Hey, I'm just going to

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Speaker 3: pick up my check and I plan to go to

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Speaker 3: another mall to do some shopping and stuff like that.

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Speaker 3: So I'm like, well, can I ride with you? I

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Speaker 3: was like, look, I just got to drop a few

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Speaker 3: items off to a girl I was dating, and so

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Speaker 3: he was like okay. So he went to pick up

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Speaker 3: his check and we left them all and I dropped

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Speaker 3: off a few eyed them for her baby and basically

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Speaker 3: gave her some money because we were moving in together.

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Speaker 3: And left.

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Speaker 1: So you'd been out of the house since eight am.

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Speaker 1: At the mall where you visited several stores, made several

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Speaker 1: points of contact, and I'm talking about people who were

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Speaker 1: disinterested alibi witnesses to people who didn't know you. And

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Speaker 1: there was also surveillance footage. So all the great alibi

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Speaker 1: evidence that places you away from the scene at the

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Speaker 1: time of the crime, none of it was investigated or

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Speaker 1: later presented on your behalf. So while you were shopping

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Speaker 1: across town, there was this bank robbery going on at

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Speaker 1: the Lindell Bank and Trust, which is Caddy Corner from

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Speaker 1: this huge park in Saint Louis that houses, the Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis Zoo, several museums, landmarks on golf course, this skating rink,

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Speaker 1: and this area is known as Forest Park. Again. This

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Speaker 1: is March seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven, around ten thirty five am,

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Speaker 1: when two masked and armed men busted down the door

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Speaker 1: and told everybody to get on the ground.

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Speaker 2: There were two bank robbers who stole fifty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: and a security guard named Richard Heflin was killed in

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Speaker 2: the process of that robbery, and then the two men

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Speaker 2: left the scene in a getaway van, drove to Forest

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Speaker 2: Park and they had a plan apparently to set the

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Speaker 2: van on fire and then get away in a different

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Speaker 2: vehicle that they planted there. But the van had actually

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Speaker 2: been pre soaked in gasoline and exploded and caught on

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Speaker 2: fire inside the park before sort of the full extent

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Speaker 2: of their plan and getaway plan could work. And so

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Speaker 2: the driver, a guy named Norris Holder, was still on

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Speaker 2: fire himself and was pulled out of the car, and

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Speaker 2: then the second suspect ran away.

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Speaker 1: So Holder was in custody almost immediately. And I've listened

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Speaker 1: to the dispatch tapes from that morning. It sounds pretty chaotic,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately it sounds like a team of folks trying

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Speaker 1: to bring the bank robbers and murderers of this bank

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Speaker 1: security guard to justice. And this is so important. Every

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Speaker 1: one of them described a blackmail about five eight to

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Speaker 1: five ten, wearing gray sweats and a blue and red

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Speaker 1: colored jacket, and they said he had singed hair understandably

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Speaker 1: since a pan was on fire, and an injured right hand.

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Speaker 3: They never described the person with a beard. And I

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Speaker 3: had a beard at the time. So if I was

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Speaker 3: the person who walked up to you and asked you

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Speaker 3: for directions, wouldn't that be one of the most descriptive

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Speaker 3: things you can point out about an individual.

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Speaker 1: Had it actually been you, they would have mentioned a beard, right,

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty big detail for everybody to leave out,

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Speaker 1: But they did not say that. They also would have

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Speaker 1: said over six to two instead of around five to nine.

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Speaker 1: Big difference there. Six' two is tall five to. Nine

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Speaker 1: most people would say short for it. Man and when

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Speaker 1: you were eventually picked, up your right hand was not

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Speaker 1: injured and your hair was not burned in any. Way

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Speaker 1: so if you listen to all of the dispatch tapes

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Speaker 1: as we, did the story remains the. Same in the immediate,

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Speaker 1: aftermath the assailant came over a hill from the direction

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Speaker 1: of the burning. Van he went toward the fence line

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Speaker 1: and allegedly told them that his van caught fire and

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Speaker 1: he needed to get to the metro.

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Speaker 3: Link both park, workers you, know when they first came,

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Speaker 3: forward they claimed that all they did was gave him

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Speaker 3: directions to the metro. Link the thing about it, is

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Speaker 3: when we get the, trial both park workers change their.

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00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 3: Story they claim they gave the person a ride outside

219
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,400
Speaker 3: of the. Park do you KNOW i have their actual

220
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,680
Speaker 3: recordings were police officer is standing right with, them calling

221
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 3: in the, dispatch.

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00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 4: Supervisor horstory workers and all these second subject he was

223
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 4: running east from the burning van by a construction. Trailer

224
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 4: this about J. George they had right over here by

225
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 4: the fence. Line there's a hole in the.

226
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,120
Speaker 5: Fence one with who had exactly when he.

227
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:51,959
Speaker 3: With?

228
00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:58,360
Speaker 4: Them and that's what we got to don't want. That

229
00:11:58,320 --> 00:11:58,520
Speaker 4: that's what.

230
00:11:58,760 --> 00:11:59,679
Speaker 5: Happened after we had.

231
00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:01,000
Speaker 4: IT i took it.

232
00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:06,559
Speaker 5: Off the robberies of the point influencer from a guard

233
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 5: in the block of plate that the subject with plain

234
00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 5: calling under a Fat wilson Near Petual, way the block

235
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:15,959
Speaker 5: on a pulley.

236
00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,360
Speaker 4: Hands and have it on a multi.

237
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,439
Speaker 3: Collars the parkworkers just told them that they gave the person. Directions.

238
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,480
Speaker 1: Right these park, workers along with everyone else at this,

239
00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:29,079
Speaker 1: point were just feeding in whatever they could to help

240
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,719
Speaker 1: nab this. Guy no other. Agenda they pointed him in

241
00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,800
Speaker 1: the right direction and he left got away whatever through

242
00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,160
Speaker 1: a hole in the. Fence, importantly not in someone's. Car

243
00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,120
Speaker 1: giving this assailant a ride outside the park would really

244
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,600
Speaker 1: make for a much more CREDIBLE, id which is why

245
00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,280
Speaker 1: we believe this story changed by the time of. Trial

246
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,760
Speaker 1: but back to the immediate. Aftermath, ultimately the effort to

247
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,960
Speaker 1: close in on the second assailant was unsuccessful and they

248
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,079
Speaker 1: were hoping to get something out Of.

249
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 3: Holder, yeah When holder was, arrested he says the person

250
00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,440
Speaker 3: with was some guy Named. John then they threatening him

251
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,800
Speaker 3: with the destiny and, say, hey, look whoever's the least

252
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,959
Speaker 3: culpable is who might get lingency in this. Case so

253
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 3: basically you need to provide, us you, know with a,

254
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,679
Speaker 3: story you, know or something that can help us out

255
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,280
Speaker 3: or help you. Out so all of a sudden he

256
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,679
Speaker 3: switches From john and he mentions my.

257
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,680
Speaker 1: Name so now he's given them something, concrete a full

258
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,080
Speaker 1: name and not just a name that feels chosen at.

259
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:24,960
Speaker 3: Random that's the. Thing he didn't even know my last.

260
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:26,160
Speaker 3: Name he just Said, bill Just.

261
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:26,959
Speaker 1: Bill that's.

262
00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,959
Speaker 3: It i'll show you Where bill. Lives. Now the thing

263
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 3: about The john situation is, this throughout their, reports there's

264
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,719
Speaker 3: a person NAMED jb who is connected To. Holder we

265
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:40,719
Speaker 3: THINK jb is his. COUSIN i can't you, KNOW i

266
00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,199
Speaker 3: don't want to falsely accuse anybody or anything like, that you,

267
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:45,240
Speaker 3: know but that this is what the reports are basically.

268
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:48,679
Speaker 3: Saying it's my belief That holder is using me as

269
00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:50,960
Speaker 3: escapego to protect somebody who is close To.

270
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:54,880
Speaker 1: So now you had no idea what was coming your.

271
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,440
Speaker 1: Way did you even know that this bank robbery had taken?

272
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 3: Place, WELL i did see the crime on the news

273
00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 3: when they Arrested, holder and So i'm, like, okay, well you,

274
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 3: Know i'm not involved in so it doesn't really draw

275
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,240
Speaker 3: my attention to. It next, THING i, Know i'm at the,

276
00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 3: apartment you, know with the GIRL i was living with

277
00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,120
Speaker 3: at the, time AND i hear some banging on the

278
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 3: door and don't know what the hell is going on

279
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:21,280
Speaker 3: or anything like. THAT fbi and police officers come to my.

280
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,560
Speaker 3: Door they arrest, me and the first THING i tell,

281
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,280
Speaker 3: THEM i had the clothes in everything THAT i had

282
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 3: bought on the, couch AND i told the, officers, look

283
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,080
Speaker 3: you're arresting the wrong. Person here are all the. Items

284
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 3: the receipts are still in the. Back the clothes are

285
00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 3: still in the, back And i'm, like, look just go

286
00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 3: to the mall and ask to see the surveillance footage

287
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,040
Speaker 3: and basically you'll see THAT i have an alibi at

288
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,400
Speaker 3: the time the crime took. Place you, know you can't

289
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 3: beat the. Video and so they were basically just yesing me,

290
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,560
Speaker 3: off and so they took me down to the homicide.

291
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 3: Office and that's WHEN i kept repeating the same story

292
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 3: and that they can talk To Christian god who was

293
00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,680
Speaker 3: a security guard at the time too fine out whether

294
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:01,480
Speaker 3: or NOT i was at the.

295
00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: Mall, Yeah but, unfortunately they weren't interested in solving the.

296
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 1: Case they were interested in fixing the facts to match

297
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 1: the name that they got From Norris. Holder SO i,

298
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: Mean i'm using facts very loosely. There so you were

299
00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:17,960
Speaker 1: arrested around two. Am what happened next.

300
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,240
Speaker 3: WHEN i was in the homicide, Office it's two officers

301
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,280
Speaker 3: that came and talked to Me Thomas carroll And Joseph.

302
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:28,440
Speaker 3: Nickerson NOW i told both, Officers i'm, like, look you

303
00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,880
Speaker 3: all can go to the. Mall you all can get the,

304
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:33,440
Speaker 3: recordings and you all can see THAT i have an.

305
00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,640
Speaker 3: Alibi now they claim they went to the, mall yet

306
00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 3: for some, reason there's no surveillance footage that can be.

307
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,960
Speaker 3: FOUND i believe they have this footage BECAUSE i. Believe

308
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,560
Speaker 3: and here's the. THING i reported about this before The

309
00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:49,320
Speaker 3: Lamar johnson. CASE i reported that they were probably withholding this,

310
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,760
Speaker 3: evidence and come to find out years later they withheld

311
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,160
Speaker 3: recordings In Lamar johnson. Case so it's like a pattern

312
00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,320
Speaker 3: down there dealing with these, officers.

313
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: A pattern that is unfortunately press event In Saint, louis

314
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,160
Speaker 1: and let's face, it around this whole country as are

315
00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,120
Speaker 1: alleged false confessions or fabricated, statements which we'll get into

316
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,320
Speaker 1: in a. Bit but, first what happened in that interrogation.

317
00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,720
Speaker 3: Room WHEN i first came in and as they reported their,

318
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,400
Speaker 3: reports you, know and LIKE i told, them, LOOK i

319
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,720
Speaker 3: didn't have anything to do with the. Crime so this

320
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,520
Speaker 3: is when you, know both you, know officers were, like, okay,

321
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 3: well if you didn't commit this crime and give us YOUR.

322
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,400
Speaker 3: Dna i'm, like, sure, SHIT i ain't got none to.

323
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:29,200
Speaker 3: Do what you can have.

324
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:31,120
Speaker 6: It WHEN i was in, PRISON i used to always

325
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,680
Speaker 6: ask guys who would say they're. Innocent one of the

326
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:34,160
Speaker 6: first Persons i'd, said would you be willing to do

327
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:39,760
Speaker 6: A dna? Test and almost ninety nine point nine percent

328
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,200
Speaker 6: of the people who are really innocent, SAID i will

329
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,640
Speaker 6: do A dna, TEST i will do any forensic tests

330
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,480
Speaker 6: THAT i can do to prove my. Innocence And billy

331
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,200
Speaker 6: falls into the category who SAID i want to do

332
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 6: anything in everything.

333
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,560
Speaker 3: Possible next thing they, do they'd, say the van you

334
00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 3: know that was used in the crime was soaked in,

335
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,880
Speaker 3: gasoline you, know so if you don't have any gasoline

336
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,119
Speaker 3: on your, clothes you, know that can help prove that

337
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,440
Speaker 3: you weren't. There So i'm, like, okay, well, here you

338
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,240
Speaker 3: can have all of my. Clothes SO i willingly gave

339
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:10,639
Speaker 3: him MY dna and my.

340
00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,560
Speaker 2: CLOTHES i mean the fact that this entire case was

341
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 2: covered in, gasoline so to, speak And billy has none on.

342
00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 1: Him they tested the co defendant his clothes were sure,

343
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:23,879
Speaker 1: enough every inch of them had gasoline residue on.

344
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 6: Him billy had a credible. ALIBI dna test results came back.

345
00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:30,960
Speaker 2: Negative they left open the question WHOSE dna is? It

346
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 2: and that hasn't been, pursued hasn't been, shown but it's

347
00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:35,720
Speaker 2: certainly Not.

348
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,560
Speaker 1: Billy's so take take us back, There billy to the

349
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,040
Speaker 1: interrogation and id.

350
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 3: Process next THING i, know AN fbi agent comes into the,

351
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,159
Speaker 3: Room Agent Jan. Hartman you, know she started reading my.

352
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,080
Speaker 3: Life this is the first TIME i was ever read my.

353
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:50,200
Speaker 3: Life So i'm, like, well LOOK i want a lawyer

354
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,200
Speaker 3: from the court. Period i'm done. TALKING i don't have

355
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,000
Speaker 3: anything to. Say you all aren't going to believe. Me,

356
00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 3: so according to her trial, testimony she never told told

357
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,440
Speaker 3: anybody about my request for an. Attorney so one officer comes,

358
00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,240
Speaker 3: in he conducted the. Lineup i'm, like, well, look you

359
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,879
Speaker 3: know where's my attorney At and he was, like you,

360
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:10,720
Speaker 3: know you don't need an attorney for. This i'm, like

361
00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,119
Speaker 3: BUT i asked for. One he's, like, well you can

362
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,639
Speaker 3: get one. Afterword so they took me to the. Lineup

363
00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 3: and now here's the crazy part about this. Lineup i'm

364
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,320
Speaker 3: the tallest person in their damn. Lineup they have nobody

365
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,520
Speaker 3: close to six' two in. This lineup nobody who looks

366
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 3: like me in. This lineup and to make, matters worse

367
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 3: he puts me in position. NUMBER three i am the

368
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 3: tallest person in, this Thing and i'm beside the two

369
00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,440
Speaker 3: shortest people Inside this, so basically you're giving people the

370
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:39,399
Speaker 3: person you want them.

371
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,679
Speaker 1: To pick not only is, it suggestive but it's also

372
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:45,120
Speaker 1: telling about the description they.

373
00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,159
Speaker 3: Had exactly, five eight. Five ten and like, our lineup

374
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 3: a lot of people when they, envision lineup they envision

375
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 3: you behind the glass and the witnesses are outside of.

376
00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:56,560
Speaker 3: The Thing The saint louis if they have a piece,

377
00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 3: of cloth it's like a black piece of cloth, right

378
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,320
Speaker 3: there so you. Can see you can actually see the

379
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 3: damn person who's basically, identifying you, you know and you can.

380
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,720
Speaker 3: Hear them and this is just how hilarious my. Lineup

381
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,480
Speaker 3: was This lady. I'll mcgilliam, you know they were, telling,

382
00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:14,280
Speaker 3: her well can you identify the person? You saw she

383
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,520
Speaker 3: picks the person in position. Number, two now if you

384
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,400
Speaker 3: look at this person in my, lineup photo this dude

385
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 3: has a freaking. Full beard he looks nothing, like me

386
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 3: and he fished the description that she gave of the

387
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:30,199
Speaker 3: person she saw at. The crime SO now i hear.

388
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 3: This guy he comes out, and, say, hey look we

389
00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three can we bring?

390
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 3: Him forward and you look? At him she, was like are?

391
00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 3: You sure he's. Like yeah so they told the number

392
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 3: two guy go back and they take me out of,

393
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 3: the lineup and she, was, LIKE yeah i think you might.

394
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 1: Be.

395
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 3: Right wow if you go to, my transcripts she will

396
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,680
Speaker 3: tell you she picked the guy in position. Number two

397
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 3: so why would you pick somebody five a, full beard

398
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 3: full head, of hair and yet all of a sudden

399
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: you switch your account to somebody six, to two small

400
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 3: beard at. The time so come to, find out, you

401
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: know in a, dispatch tape she actually is reporting that

402
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 3: she couldn't even describe the person. She saw this is

403
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,399
Speaker 3: on their. Own recordings so my attorney didn't. Find it

404
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,760
Speaker 3: it was never presented on my defense. Or anything but

405
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 3: yet this woman was allowed to pick somebody and position

406
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 3: number two who was clearly DIFFERENT than, i was and

407
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 3: then basically come to court changed, her story claimed that

408
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 3: she never told the, Officers that and then we have

409
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 3: the recordings to prove that the prosecutors presented.

410
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 1: False testimony and this wasn't the only time the prosecutors

411
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,600
Speaker 1: know only put on false testimony in, this case nor

412
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,600
Speaker 1: was it the last time that one of the quote

413
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,719
Speaker 1: unquote eyewitnesses picked someone out when they had no business

414
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: doing so because they admitted not having seen, the assailant

415
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 1: like the guy who had followed the van from the

416
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:50,879
Speaker 1: bank to, The Park.

417
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 3: William Green william green walked in. The ROOM like, i

418
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:56,680
Speaker 3: said you can clearly hear what the person is telling the,

419
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,159
Speaker 3: you know talking to. The witnesses he comes in the

420
00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 3: door and he, tells, THEM look i can't. Identify anybody

421
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,000
Speaker 3: you know what the officer, tells him just, Pick anybody

422
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 3: and that's exactly what. He does he just did a.

423
00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 3: Random pick he never. Picked me but why would you

424
00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:14,200
Speaker 3: even take?

425
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,760
Speaker 1: That chance the same reason we have to remind people

426
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: that black, lives matter as well as why that statement

427
00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:21,440
Speaker 1: is ever met with.

428
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 3: Any, Pushback exactly, i'm no, full fact my life. Didn't

429
00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 3: matter when you're going, through that when you're sitting in

430
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 3: this situation and you're hearing these things, going on, you're,

431
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,240
Speaker 3: like man WHAT did i do to? Deserve this why

432
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,720
Speaker 3: are these people doing what they're doing when basically everything

433
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 3: shows that. They're lying.

434
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 7: This episode is UNDERWRITTEN, by aig a leading global. INSURANCE

435
00:21:56,640 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 7: company aig is committed to corporate social responsibility and is

436
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Speaker 7: making a positive difference in the lives of its employees

437
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 7: and in the communities where we work. And live in

438
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 7: light of the compelling need for pro bono, legal assistance

439
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 7: and in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social,

440
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 7: justice REFORM the Aig Pro bono program provides free legal

441
00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 7: services and other support to underrepresented communities.

442
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Speaker 1: And individuals so you have two witnesses who admitted in

443
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: front of you that their identifications were. Entirely invalid and

444
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: then you have these two park workers who said that

445
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 1: they gave the assailant a ride and that the assailant

446
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 1: was not wearing, a mask so they got a. Good

447
00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: look as we already, pointed out the dispatch tapes proved

448
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,719
Speaker 1: that these two accounts were. Also lies they were standing

449
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,399
Speaker 1: there with the police saying that they had pointed the

450
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,679
Speaker 1: assailant towards the, Metrolink.

451
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 3: Exactly but my attorney never presented. THIS recording i found

452
00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:00,639
Speaker 3: the recorder a couple of, years AGO so i just

453
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 3: found out about THEM because i kept Telling everybody, i'm,

454
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: LIKE look i know these guys in line they would be,

455
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 3: you know everybody, was like well we, you know you

456
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: have to. Prove IT so i knew they had turned

457
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 3: over these dispatch, tape transcripts but they only gave me.

458
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 3: Six pages do you know the actual recording is over

459
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 3: an hour and a.

460
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,200
Speaker 1: Half long my producer transcribed. These tapes the ninety minute

461
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: segment you're talking about comes out to thirty, nine pages

462
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,160
Speaker 1: and that's what the artificial intelligence transcriber missing a lot

463
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: of the.

464
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,919
Speaker 3: Actual words, so basically they withheld the fact that they

465
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,200
Speaker 3: knew that both park workers.

466
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,959
Speaker 1: Were lying that or they were counting on your attorney

467
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 1: not doing. His job so we already Heard about al

468
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 1: Mcgillion And. William green so what happened when these park

469
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: workers walked into the?

470
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,639
Speaker 3: Lineup Room When william green didn't pick? Me out the,

471
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 3: officer walked, You Know william, green out and you see

472
00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 3: the two. PARK workers i literally when they opened, the

473
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 3: door you can see the two park workers standing side

474
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,639
Speaker 3: by side and they, were, like look, you know we

475
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,359
Speaker 3: think it's the guy in position. Number three before they

476
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,440
Speaker 3: even walk into, the room they, were, like, yeah yeah

477
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,120
Speaker 3: it's the guy in position. Number three and the officer, tells,

478
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,200
Speaker 3: him no you all have to come in and identify

479
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 3: them so we can put it. On record so they

480
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 3: come in and pick me in position. Number three that's

481
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 3: how they.

482
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: Got me so this total sham identification procedure where all

483
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: the witnesses are ready and willing to help out the

484
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,439
Speaker 1: boys in blue with whatever. They Need Plus, norris holder

485
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 1: who's incentivized to try to avoid the, death penalty even

486
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 1: though that ended up backfiring. For him this is essentially

487
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: the that's all they had. Against you all the, other

488
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: evidence or let's call it what, it is the, actual

489
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: evidence told a totally. Different story They tested holder's clothes

490
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: for traces. Of gasoline i'm talking about, the shoes, his fox,

491
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: his pants, his SHIRT his. T shirt everything he had

492
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: on came back positive for traces. OF gasoline i gave you.

493
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 3: My clothes not a single trace of gasoline was found.

494
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 1: On anything and they knew that as well as that

495
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: you didn't match any of the. Physical descriptions you didn't

496
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: have the injury to your right hand that was described by,

497
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,080
Speaker 1: the witnesses an injury that would have explained the blood

498
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:05,639
Speaker 1: left behind on the strap to a. Bulletproof vest it

499
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,640
Speaker 1: was tested for both yours and THE victims dna. Both

500
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 1: negative yet still some pile, some way they chose to

501
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,719
Speaker 1: believe holder and basically RIG the. Id process but they

502
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: didn't stop with just. One fix your attorney could have

503
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: found all of. This evidence so they needed, some, more right,

504
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: you know.

505
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: They wanted me to confess to, the CRIME and i

506
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,639
Speaker 3: TOLD them i don't have anything to do with.

507
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 1: This crime so you maintained your. Innocence throughout you were

508
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: quote unquote idd in that. Fixed lineup but now when

509
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: you're going, to trial you. Receive discovery NEXT thing, I

510
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: know i read a report a few.

511
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: Days later basically he's SAYING that i confessed to.

512
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 1: The crime there's, get this not a single piece of

513
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: evidence to show that a confession ever.

514
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: Took, place well, to me it's a perfect example of

515
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 2: a larger phenomenon that we, know well which is that

516
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 2: when there's this pressure to close, the case they'll start

517
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,200
Speaker 2: making shit up so they feel like they need a

518
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 2: little bit More on billy Onll, so hey, He, confessed

519
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: well where's the evidence of this confession?

520
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: Was?

521
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: Recorded no were?

522
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:10,639
Speaker 3: Their?

523
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: Notes, yes okay then where are? The notes we don't have?

524
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 2: Them anymore we. Lost them we threw. IT away, i mean,

525
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 2: come on that's, just bullshit beginning middle.

526
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: To end they didn't even say they, lost it which would,

527
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: have like, you know they said they threw. It away,

528
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: SO yeah i mean they threw away the only evidence

529
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: that they had that this alleged confession ever. Took. Place,

530
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah no i'm. Not dumb i'm.

531
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 2: Not really usually they say it was lost in. A

532
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 2: flood we've heard that in a number. Of, cases yeah we,

533
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: had it but it was lost in. A flood in,

534
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 2: this case, they, say no we threw.

535
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 3: It away they claimed that after the, LINE up i

536
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: demanded to speak To A lieutenant HENDERSON because i alludedly

537
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 3: knew him from a. Previous case the previous case they

538
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 3: mentioned is a friend. Of mine he. Was murdered we

539
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,480
Speaker 3: were the victims in, that case and basically they so

540
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: they used my friend's murder to SAY that i confessed

541
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 3: to this black OFFICER because i knew HIM and i. Trusted,

542
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 3: HIM now i kept telling, My lawyers, I'M like i

543
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 3: don't even know. This guy ONE thing i do know

544
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 3: is that when my friend, was killed there wasn't one

545
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 3: black officer that came to the crime scene. That day,

546
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 3: So basically i'm telling my lawyer to look for this

547
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,399
Speaker 3: police REPORT so i can prove that they manufactured. This

548
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 3: line he. NEVER finded i find this myself a few,

549
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: years later and come to Find out henderson didn't even worked,

550
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 3: That day so HOW can i ask to confess to

551
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:38,199
Speaker 3: SOMEBODY that i never even? Met before but we were

552
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 3: never able to front him.

553
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: With that there was a lot of bullshit slinging at

554
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: your trial and a near total abdication of duty by your,

555
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: defense attorney who could have done so much more with

556
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: what was available to him to discredit this horrendous lie

557
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,640
Speaker 1: that perhaps even the jury, saw through but they most

558
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 1: definitely were not provided with what they needed to see

559
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: the real time truth in. THIS case, i mean let's,

560
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 1: face it the very least he could have done was

561
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: present the negative gasoline RESIDUE and dna test results that

562
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: would have had a big impact on.

563
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 2: THE jury, i mean the fact that he didn't even,

564
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 2: highlight this didn't even make it part of, his case

565
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: part of.

566
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 1: HIS defense a government forensic expert even testify the trial

567
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: saying that anyone who had been in that van would

568
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: have had gasoline present on. Their clothing yet he just

569
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: didn't seize, that moment probably because he hadn't done his

570
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,399
Speaker 1: freaking homework or he would have known to. DO it,

571
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 1: i mean any first year law student would have known to.

572
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 2: Do that and then there's all these different, eyewitness, discrepancies.

573
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: Right and as, we've mentioned there were four alleged, eyewitness

574
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: IDs and considering the dispatch tapes and interview recordings that

575
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: were available, to him more could have been done to

576
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: impeach all. Of them two of, the eyewitnesses, after all

577
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: set on the tapes that they were unable to identify

578
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: the perp on top of what they said and did at.

579
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: The lineup then you've got these two park workers saying

580
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: that they gave the assailant a ride And. Identified billy

581
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: but your attorneys have researched and pointed out that that

582
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: testimony was contradicted by what they had said in their

583
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: initial statements via the. Dispatch tape he didn't present one

584
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 1: piece of evidence on. My behalf he cross examined these

585
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: witnesses though that's.

586
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: It didn't present not a single thread of all THE

587
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: evidence i found that he had. Access to he didn't even.

588
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 1: Look, forward so not having done the preparation his cross

589
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: examination among, other things fell.

590
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 2: Predictably short his public defender did an unconscionably, poor job

591
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: didn't seek any Confirmation of, billie's alibi just sort of

592
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: let it go.

593
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 6: TO me, i mean you think about somebody goes shopping

594
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 6: in a very. Public place the first thing you're going

595
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 6: to do is have an investigator to every, single store speak,

596
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 6: to people, get videos try to find witnesses.

597
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: DOWN right, i mean there could have been receipts from

598
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 2: the mall security footage which instantly would Have, cleared billy

599
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: and he didn't do anything and didn't make any attempt to.

600
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: Obtain that, and now of course it's far.

601
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: Too late, of course there was a security guard that

602
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,920
Speaker 1: gave him a ride, As Well. Chris chigag how do

603
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: you not present him or look into when he picked up.

604
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: His paycheck there would have certainly been a record that

605
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: showed that this took place at the time of, the

606
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: crime which would Have. Cleared billy but none of this.

607
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: Was Done norris holder identified you in an effort to

608
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: save himself and his actual partner in crime from. Death

609
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: row little good that ended up doing for, him. Anyway though,

610
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: and meanwhile there's the first person that he named whose Name.

611
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 1: Was john this is another lead that could have and

612
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: should have. Been developed but beyond the leads that could have,

613
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: been developed there was everything that was already Available that

614
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: billy has been able to use to prove that the

615
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: witnesses and the police. Were lying which makes this all

616
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: so unbelievable that this ever even made it. To, trial yeah.

617
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 3: All the Evidence that i'm presented on my behalf is

618
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 3: in their, Own files so they knew that when they presented,

619
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 3: this testimony when they conquer this story and claimed all,

620
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: these things they had their actual reports that shows something

621
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: other than what they were actually, Testifying too so it

622
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 3: wasn't like it was just a lot concocted by. The

623
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: officers the prosecutors basically allowed them to tell these lies

624
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 3: because they had these fouls with them when they put

625
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 3: these people on.

626
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: The, stands yeah you think that would make them eligible for?

627
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: Attempted murder and perhaps your trial attorney could be and

628
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: should be considered for criminal negligence because without the defense,

629
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 1: you needed the jury was left with this pack of

630
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: lies and not. Much else and before we go to

631
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: this trial's, INEVITABLE conclusion i want to talk about this

632
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: really makes. Me sick this electric stun Belt that billy

633
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: was made to wear throughout, The proceedings what in the

634
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 1: actual fuck is up?

635
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: WITH that i don't, Have, WORDS jason i. Don't know

636
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: it's part of, the dehumanizing degrading PROCESS that i think

637
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: often happens to. Different degrees this is extreme to scare

638
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 2: into viewing somebody as being responsible and, perhaps worthy so,

639
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 2: to speak of getting the.

640
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 3: Death penalty my, thing was you know a lot of

641
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 3: times you want to, stand up, you know you want

642
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 3: to tell them, you, know object or you, want to,

643
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: you know, yell, out hey y'are? On menocent or you

644
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 3: want to yell out to, the jury or you want

645
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 3: to stand up and, you know kind of, defend yourself

646
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: especially when you're not being defended by, your attorney. You

647
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 3: know but the thing About, the marshalls they, were, like

648
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: look if you make any, quick movements we're going to

649
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 3: push the button freaking twenty thousand volts of. FIFTY thousand

650
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: i don't even remember how many volts this. THING is i, don't,

651
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 3: KNOW man i felt even more IMPRISONED because i couldn't,

652
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 3: SAY anything i couldn't.

653
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:41,959
Speaker 1: Do anything they were essentially treating you like cattle and by,

654
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: the way that's not even the way cattle should be.

655
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 3: Treated exactly if you have TO realize i Wasn't Called.

656
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 3: BILLY allen i was called a murderous dog by. My

657
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 3: prosecutor my jury was never allowed to basically see, the

658
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 3: truth to hold truth for nothing but. The truth they

659
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 3: got half of a story that was concocted by officers

660
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 3: that could have easily been disputed. With evidence and so

661
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 3: That's why i'm kind of hoping that this platform allows

662
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 3: my jury to hear this stuff, and, say hey you,

663
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: KNOW what I think i made.

664
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: A mistake did you have any hope that they were

665
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: going to see that at. The? Time.

666
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 3: Oh, NO honestly i told, my mom and this is

667
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: a sad part. ABOUT it i told my mom right before,

668
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 3: THE verdict, i, Say look i'm going to get. Found

669
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 3: guilty she, was, like no don't. SAY that, i, say,

670
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: look mom my lawyer isn't going to present, a defense

671
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 3: so don't. BE surprised i prepared my mom emotionally and

672
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: prepare my family to accept the FACT that i was

673
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 3: going to get. FOUND guilty i, accepted it. You know

674
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: and then here's. THE thing i wasn't mad at MY

675
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: jury i was more mad at my defense attorney for

676
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,160
Speaker 3: him not defending me and proving to THEM that i.

677
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: Was INNOCENT so i wasn't mad at them BECAUSE if

678
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,440
Speaker 3: i were to sit on, THAT jury i would have

679
00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,120
Speaker 3: to find a. Person guilty there WAS nothing i. Could

680
00:33:53,160 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 3: do from THE moment i got. Locked up that started

681
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 3: my mission to prove. My innocence one BECAUSE when i went,

682
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 3: into court, you know the victim's family, was THERE and

683
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 3: i saw people looking at me with so much anger

684
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 3: and so much pain and so, much Hate and, I'M

685
00:34:20,680 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 3: like i got people hate me when they have the.

686
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 3: Wrong Person so, I'm, Like okay i'm going to make

687
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 3: it my mission to Prove that. I'm missing and, YOU

688
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,040
Speaker 3: know i made that same promise to my mom and.

689
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 3: Thea sially that started my JOURNEY where i started reading all.

690
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 3: THE files i read every, single paid every, single sentence, every,

691
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: transcript EVERYTHING and i started putting together. This puzzle and

692
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,800
Speaker 3: when you see the story that they tell at, my

693
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: trial and you see all the evidence that they had

694
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 3: to show, something different you start to, ask yourself why

695
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 3: would somebody go this far to convict me for something

696
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 3: THEY know i, didn't do where their own Evidence proves

697
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 3: i'm missing hadn't been the Burden that i've had. To carry,

698
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 3: you know in a sense, Being innocent being innocent is a.

699
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 3: Burden man, you know every day you're fighting, to live

700
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: you're fighting to prove. Your innocence you're fighting to convince

701
00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 3: judges to do the right thing who won't do the.

702
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: Right thing so your first appeal happened in two thousand,

703
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,280
Speaker 1: and one and it was based On Your fifth amendment

704
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: right to be indicted by a. Grand, jury essentially the

705
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: effort sought to get you off of.

706
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: Death throw what's interesting is that his sentence. Was mixed

707
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: so the, first count which was bank robbery in which a,

708
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 2: killing occurs he was convicted and. Got life on, the

709
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,280
Speaker 2: second which was using a firearm during and in relation

710
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: to a federal crime of violence which resulted, in murder

711
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 2: he was convicted and got. Death penalty then that was

712
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: Appealed by billy and it was reversed so commuted. To

713
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: life but then the state appealed it To The eighth

714
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: circuit and made back to death and put him on.

715
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,560
Speaker 2: Death ROW but i think the fact that you had

716
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 2: these different outcomes just suggest there's something. Fishy here and

717
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 2: also the fact that the state appealed to get it

718
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 2: back on death row just shows how hell bent they

719
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 2: are on having the highest possible outcome and win for

720
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: their case based on what they decided, to pursue which was.

721
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 2: Death penalty the best predictor of whether somebody is going

722
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 2: to get the death penalty is the race of. The

723
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 2: victim so having a white victim and, black perpetrator suddenly

724
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 2: the odds of prosecutors going for death penalty, shoot up

725
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: as they did in.

726
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: This case while we're on the subject, of race in

727
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: a community that was half white and, half black literally

728
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: split evenly somehow other the jury pool ended up being ten.

729
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: White jurors so the prosecutors found all sorts of reasons

730
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 1: to strike black people from, the jury and, on appeal

731
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: in two thousand, And Nine billy allen's lawyers sought an

732
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: evidentiary hearing on the, race issue noting that as of

733
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,320
Speaker 1: the Twelfth of may two thousand and nine of the

734
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,760
Speaker 1: four hundred and sixty federal defendants AGAINST The Us attorney

735
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: general had authorized federal prosecutors to seek the. Death penalty

736
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: and this will shock, no one but one hundred and

737
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: nineteen of them were white and three hundred and forty

738
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 1: one were, from minority racial or, ethnic groups of whom

739
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty seven. Were BLACK so i, KNOW

740
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: today i don't know the percentage, of them but it's

741
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: probably about. The same thirteen percent Of the american population.

742
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: Is black and yet somehow, or other over fifty percent

743
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: of the time the death penalty was used weaponized against

744
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 1: people innocent or guilty in the, federal system it was

745
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: used against. Black people and then fully another one hundred

746
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 1: and four of those four hundred and sixty total were

747
00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: people from other. Minority groups the direct quote from the

748
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: government to this incredible statistical evidence, was quote there are

749
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 1: three kinds, of, lies lies, damn lies. And statistics this is,

750
00:37:55,080 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: so nonsensical it's, like cartoonish but again. Deadly serious and,

751
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: a judge, of course ruled that even if the court

752
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: would agree With, mister allen that these statistics amounted to

753
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: a compelling indictment of the federal government's use of the

754
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: death penalty against, minoriti defendants which is basically him almost

755
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: tacitly acknowledging that. It did he goes on, to say

756
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: the law is nevertheless clear that a defendant cannot make

757
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: out a selective prosecution claim under The Equal protection clause

758
00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: without evidence that there was discriminatory motive to prosecute him.

759
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 3: In.

760
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 2: Particular yeah so that's the lasting legacy of one of

761
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:30,279
Speaker 2: The Worst supreme court decisions in, our lifetime which is

762
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven McCleskey, versus kemp where there was an

763
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 2: overwhelming finding that still exists today and statistical pattern that's

764
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 2: indisputable that you have an overrepresentation of people, of Color Particularly,

765
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 2: african americans who are sentenced.

766
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 1: To death.

767
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:49,120
Speaker 2: It's undeniable And The supreme, court says even though that may,

768
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: be true it will not help Any Individual african american

769
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 2: defendant sentenced to death unless they can show that race

770
00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: was a bias in their. Particular case and the only

771
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,400
Speaker 2: way to show that it's basically getting a secret recording

772
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 2: of the prosecutor USING the n word or somehow something

773
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,399
Speaker 2: that would be just so egregious that would be caught,

774
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,440
Speaker 2: on tape and that of course never comes. To light

775
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 2: but we know the overall pattern. Is there we're letting

776
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 2: these biases, run rampant And The, supreme court unfortunately it's

777
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: given a green light, to them and that.

778
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 1: Continues, today Yeah and while this argument was Us about

779
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: billy's case, in particular and more about the bent of

780
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 1: the entire system against, black defendants it was also one

781
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: that became more pressing at. The time there was a

782
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: moratorium on executions on the federal level that started in

783
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: two thousand, and six but it was lifted in. Twenty

784
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: nineteen the previous occupant Of The oval office spent the

785
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 1: last gasp of his power overseeing the first seventeen executions

786
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: in a generation on the, federal level sixteen by lethal

787
00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: injection and one.

788
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,719
Speaker 6: By electrocution he's the same person who sought to bring

789
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:54,479
Speaker 6: a death penalty Back In New york state many, years

790
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 6: ago seeking the death penalty and execution of several young

791
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 6: men that were wrongfully Accused In New, york City The.

792
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,520
Speaker 1: Central park five From The central park five now known

793
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 1: As the. Exonerated five and the Fact That billy allen

794
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: bore witness to these executions from his vantage point as

795
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: one of the long serving people on. Death row in

796
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,160
Speaker 1: spite of this remarkable body of, exculpatory Evidence so billy

797
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: also raised claims of ineffective assistance of counsel for the

798
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 1: reasons that we've already laid, out here and of course

799
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: the gasoline RESIDUE and dna tests that Truly Do. Exculpai

800
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: billy let's, FACE it.

801
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: I wrote a letter to, my ATTORNEY and i framed

802
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: it this way for. A reason, i, SAID basically i

803
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 3: about to file. ON appeal I located, DNA evidence i located.

804
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 3: GASOLINE results i located all. This evidence had you known

805
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 3: about these THINGS before i went, to trial would you

806
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 3: have presented these things on? My behalf and he in,

807
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: his letter in his response, to me he specifically, says

808
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,520
Speaker 3: yes he would have presented these things had he known

809
00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 3: about them. Before trial now here's the thing. About it

810
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 3: these things were in the records that he handed over.

811
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: To me there was no way in hill that my

812
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 3: trial was FAIR when i had an attorney who specifically

813
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 3: responded to a letter that had he knew about, these

814
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 3: things he. Represented them but yet he had these things

815
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: in his possession and never Looked.

816
00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: For yeah we've seen some pretty grotesque examples of ineffective

817
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: assistance of, counsel before but this is a whole. New

818
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: level but yet somehow you were denied on that front,

819
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: as well.

820
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 3: All those denials and basically did. A rejection it becomes

821
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: a burden on, your shoulders. You know so that has

822
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 3: been my burden for the last, few years, you know

823
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 3: trying to find all, the evidence and Now that i've,

824
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 3: FOUND it i can't get people. To listen what does

825
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 3: it take for people? To care what does it take

826
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 3: for situations? To change and, TO me i guess that

827
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,959
Speaker 3: goes To The. Georgetown Project the, GEORGETOWN project i felt

828
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 3: like ignited a hope and a flame that has, you

829
00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 3: know basically dimmed over. The years and that was my,

830
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 3: first introduction, you Know to Mark and marty into the,

831
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 3: you know the Students. At GEORGETOWN and, i asked, YOU

832
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 3: know I think I. ASKED mark i, was, like well

833
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,800
Speaker 3: what is your process of? Picking people and he, was

834
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 3: like we go through thousands and thousands of applications and

835
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:32,880
Speaker 3: only pick five and yours. Stood out and that meant everything.

836
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: To me and, of course You mean georgetown's making an

837
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 1: exanner re class and remarkably it's an, undergraduate course so

838
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,360
Speaker 1: you don't have to be a, law student a, forensic

839
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: scientist or a private investigator to look at some of

840
00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: the evidence, and say wait, a minute how did this

841
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: actually even go forward? To trial how much less result in,

842
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: a Conviction, and marty, YOU know i watched the remarkable

843
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: video that you and your students put together with the

844
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,320
Speaker 1: making an, exander reclass, of course and those in that

845
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: class never ceased to blow my mind with, the amazing

846
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: amazing work that they do semester, after semester class, after

847
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: class and of course their work has led to the

848
00:43:10,640 --> 00:43:15,400
Speaker 1: actual freeing of four, people, NOW right I Mean, Keith Washington,

849
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 1: Valentino Dixon, eric.

850
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,720
Speaker 2: Riddick And Now Orlando.

851
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: Trey, jones right these kids are doing an absolutely. Phenomenal

852
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: jobs some of them have even come to work for

853
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,640
Speaker 1: us or have gone on to law school working as

854
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: paralegals on pro bono cases or. Other nonprofits they are

855
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 1: truly incredible assets to this movement, for Justice and i'm

856
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: so glad that you all Landed on.

857
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 6: Billy's case, billy's case, to me it was just a

858
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 6: multitude of things that. Went wrong every week that, we

859
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 6: live we see another man or woman. Become exonerated and

860
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 6: what we also see is that something from the original

861
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 6: case went wrong and it was either from The prosecutor

862
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,760
Speaker 6: lisa's point, of view there were, some wrongdoing, forensic misconduct

863
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 6: or incompetent lawyers And in, BILLY'S case i think he

864
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 6: had a little bit. Of, everything now.

865
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 2: There was someone else who Has seen withholder planning the,

866
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: bank robbery but that was just. Never pursued there was

867
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 2: an anonymous tip that we don't know much. More about

868
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 2: we just know that the initials of the SUSPECT, are

869
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 2: dm and obviously That's Not BILLY. Allen dm but we

870
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 2: don't know more and haven't been able to find out

871
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,920
Speaker 2: more because it's been kept, Under wraps but that very

872
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 2: well could be the second Person who holder.

873
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: Is PROTECTING, there's DM there's Jb as, billy mentioned and

874
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: a whole lot of potential avenues if you could just access,

875
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: These materials but they've been fighting it every step of.

876
00:44:48,160 --> 00:44:51,239
Speaker 1: The way now there was renewed efforts to TEST the

877
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: dna evidence against other, potential suspects which was the focus

878
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: of your filings in. Twenty twenty not only is there

879
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: this bloody strap that excludes you and the victim that

880
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: they refused to RUN through codis or test against, anyone

881
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: else there's also the matter of a damp cloth that

882
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: was found near the fence where the second suspect Escaped From.

883
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 1: Forrest park they tested IT for dna and it, excluded

884
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: you but have since sealed. Those results i'm sure if

885
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: they Had, matched billy we wouldn't be having this conversation.

886
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: Right now so how have those efforts gone?

887
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 3: Thus far thanks? About us every year from the FIRST

888
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 3: year i filed, pro say my lawyers, Have filed we've

889
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 3: done everything we could to get them to basically do all,

890
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 3: the testing and my judge basically has refused every, single

891
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: request and the prosecutor has opposed every form. Of testing in,

892
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 3: MY case i can't get.

893
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 2: Nothing tested if we could TEST that dna against other,

894
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 2: possible suspects who knows what would come up in. This

895
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 2: case but there's such, A conspiracy, i mean that's not

896
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 2: too strong a word to say that police and prosecutors

897
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 2: have in just ceiling tight, a conviction even if it's the,

898
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:01,360
Speaker 2: wrong one even if there's evidence that proves that it was.

899
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 3: A mistake my case is in one of Those where

900
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:06,320
Speaker 3: i'm just asking, people to, you know take a chance.

901
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: On me i'm asking people to believe in my evidence

902
00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 3: and fight.

903
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: For me so that's where this is at. Right Now

904
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: and billy and his team are fighting this on, two

905
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 1: fronts trying to get access to those, biological materials as

906
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 1: well as seeking a Pardon From. President biden there's a

907
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: petition among so many other action steps linked in. The

908
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: bio but go, there now. Don't wait go to, the

909
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 1: bio click, on it sign, the petition and in addition

910
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:32,280
Speaker 1: to all, of that there's the making an. Exanay video

911
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,279
Speaker 1: please check all of. It out we also encourage you

912
00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: To join billy Supporters this November, AND washington dc for.

913
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: A rally you Can follow Billy. On instagram It's free

914
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: BILLY B i L L i E allen A L

915
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 1: l e n So free billy all to. Receive updates

916
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 1: and now we go to our closing where first, OF

917
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: all i thank all of you for. Joining us i'm

918
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: just gonna kick back in, my chair turn my, microphone

919
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: off and just listen for any closing thoughts that you.

920
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: All have let's Start, with Mark, then martyn And then

921
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:01,919
Speaker 1: billy over to you to close.

922
00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:02,319
Speaker 3: This Out.

923
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 2: Thanks jason billy is an. Extraordinary person he, is warm he,

924
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 2: is caring he, is funny he, is compassionate he, is,

925
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: dedicated hardworking and he's. Incredibly TALENTED and i got to

926
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:18,759
Speaker 2: see a lot of. HIS artwork i actually have some

927
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,240
Speaker 2: of it now in my Office. At Georgetown but billy

928
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 2: is himself a beacon of light and hope for. This

929
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 2: world AND what i really hope more than anything is

930
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 2: that the rest of the world will Discover the Billy

931
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: that i've come to know, and love and to recognize

932
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:40,160
Speaker 2: his talent and to appreciate, his humanity and that hopefully

933
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: he'll have that opportunity to connect with the world as a.

934
00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: Freeman soon this.

935
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 6: Is TRUE things i want people to. Understand well for

936
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 6: convictions is. An epidemic in twenty, twenty one we had

937
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 6: one hundred and seventy three exonerations that were Recognized By

938
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 6: national Register. Of exonery twenty, twenty two we already have

939
00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 6: one hundred and. Seventy three billy should be added to

940
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 6: that list in the. Near future our system can't function

941
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 6: if we keep convicting, innocent people and when there's evidence

942
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 6: that somebody was, denied justice we let them languish in

943
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:24,919
Speaker 6: prison day after day.

944
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 3: After day.

945
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 6: The day has to Come where billy gets his day.

946
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,799
Speaker 6: For JUSTICE and i look forward to the Day where,

947
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 6: mark myself our students can be waiting outside of a

948
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 6: prison somewhere like we have for four other individuals To

949
00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 6: watch billy walk out.

950
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,640
Speaker 3: Of prison i'm not just somebody who's saying, they're innocing,

951
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: You know i'm somebody who can show You that. I'm

952
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 3: innocent and, TO me i feel like that shitting night people,

953
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 3: to say you, know what let me go to bat for.

954
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,439
Speaker 3: This guy, You know, i'll get, you know letters from people,

955
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 3: Say hey i'm praying, for You and, i'm, like, okay well,

956
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 3: YOU know i appreciate, the PRAYERS but i need you to,

957
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 3: speak out, you know because you need those voices in

958
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 3: the high places to be able to hear that you.

959
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 3: Do CARE and i feel like the more people who

960
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 3: show that, they care the more the system is going

961
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 3: to have to care and gonna have to give us

962
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 3: the testing that we're looking for and allow the evidence

963
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 3: to be the thing that motivates you to want to

964
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 3: go out there and fight for me to want to go.

965
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: Out there and, you know every time you're on, social

966
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,479
Speaker 3: media instead of posting about the new foods, you're eating

967
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 3: to be able, to, say hey you, know What Free billy.

968
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 3: Allen period, you Know, in november we'll be going TO,

969
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 3: d c, you know to basically do a MARCH on

970
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 3: dc to present, my Case and i'm hoping that people

971
00:49:41,480 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 3: start raising their voice and have an influence when we

972
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,400
Speaker 3: do file our Petition, to biden to be able to make,

973
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 3: him say you, know what we're always asking another country

974
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 3: to do right by. Their citizens we fail this guy.

975
00:49:53,640 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 3: Right here let us do the right thing now and

976
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 3: return him to. His FAMILY and I guess i'm going

977
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 3: to read you SOMETHING that i think will help you

978
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 3: kind of GATHER who i am in, my journey and

979
00:50:05,680 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 3: it's called longe soldier to find myself engaged in the

980
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 3: conflict that some have deemed to be a battle between

981
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,800
Speaker 3: good and evil in a desire who they have labeled.

982
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 3: The latter this battle is not one where thunder's ward

983
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 3: will be heard fought about a stinch of gun smoke,

984
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 3: charred flesh nor where blood stains will tak the same

985
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 3: round with footsteps travel to. The, froe no this battle

986
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 3: is one that is rooted in the blood lines and

987
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 3: bloodshed that painted the stripes red and in the blue

988
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 3: sky there are weighed, fifty stars which are at times

989
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 3: saluted or draped over the caskets to the. Fallen, heroes

990
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 3: NOW because i know that there are those who like

991
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 3: to take one's word out of context with. Malicious, intent

992
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 3: no there's no way in my claiming the role. Of

993
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 3: hero i'm just one who has been wrongfully imprisoned and

994
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 3: who wishes to defend myself against those who have brought

995
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,040
Speaker 3: this battle to. My doorstep and in, DOING so i

996
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 3: plan to defend myself against, the lies misriperdsons pat in

997
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 3: advances to take my life into pretense. Of, justice NOW

998
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 3: after i expose, this injustice if you then deem my

999
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: actions to be that of, a hero know that IT

1000
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 3: is i who will not make such. A claim this

1001
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 3: battle will take place on what many have deemed to be,

1002
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 3: sacred ground or what some have said to be the

1003
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: foundation of, our society without which will cause chaos and

1004
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 3: leave in its. Path destruction and that battleground is the

1005
00:51:28,600 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 3: constitutionist as amendments to oversee, this battle to ensure that

1006
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 3: it's conducted without a hint, of, bias favoritism nor that

1007
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 3: it will be tainted with the temptation of power or.

1008
00:51:39,320 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 3: Financial Gain Is Lady, justice yet to, my disbelief though

1009
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 3: she is suposed to stand out front of the symbol of,

1010
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,640
Speaker 3: FUNDAMENTAL fairness i could have SWORN that i thought her

1011
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 3: tip the scales of justice in favor of, my foes

1012
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 3: who already have, superior, power resources and who will attack without.

1013
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,160
Speaker 3: Malicious FORETHOUGHT though i know that the odds are. IT'S

1014
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,080
Speaker 3: me i do not waiver on, my STANDS and i

1015
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 3: hold tight to the hilt of my sword of truth. And,

1016
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 3: evidence well my evidence is the material which it has been.

1017
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,600
Speaker 3: FORCED in i close, my eyes say, a PRAYER and

1018
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 3: i can only Hope that god Hear my please is

1019
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 3: out those stones, that golive and IT is i who

1020
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: am the. Long soldier.

1021
00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for Listening To. Wrongful conviction i'd like to

1022
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 1: thank our Production Team, Connor Hall, jeff Cliburn And, kevin

1023
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: wardis with Research By. Lyla robinson the music in this

1024
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: production was supplied by Three time oscar Nominated Composer. Jay

1025
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,040
Speaker 1: ralph be sure to follow Us on Instagram At, wrongful

1026
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:48,440
Speaker 1: Conviction on Facebook At Wrongful, conviction podcast And on twitter At,

1027
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,760
Speaker 1: wrong conviction as well As at Lava.

1028
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 3: For good on all.

1029
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 1: Three platforms you can also follow me on both TikTok

1030
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: and Instagram At It's. Jason Flam wrongful conviction is the

1031
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: Production of Lava A good podcast and Association With signal company,

1032
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:03,040
Speaker 1: number one