Speaker 1: Hey everybody.
Speaker 2: By you guys, we are two Jersey Jays and Jackie Goldschneider.
Speaker 1: I'm Den Fessler.
Speaker 2: We're so excited today we have one of my favorite
Speaker 2: people on as our guest, but we have.
Speaker 1: A lot to get to before then. Yes, we certainly do.
Speaker 1: We do.
Speaker 2: As I was driving here this morning, news was breaking
Speaker 2: about some people leaving some of the Bravo shows and.
Speaker 1: Sorry, I lost my voice, and I like, I love it.
Speaker 1: Rasby like this, but I.
Speaker 3: Can't seem to get We're gonna excrase it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, people are leaving some of the shows.
Speaker 3: Well, and the timing of that, although unfortunate I'm sure
Speaker 3: for lots of viewers, and potentially even for the Housewives, Uh, unfortunate.
Speaker 3: Unfortunate though it is maybe for them, it sort of
Speaker 3: works out for us because our topic today is sort
Speaker 3: of what happens after you lose you or I don't
Speaker 3: know about identity, because I don't know that our guests
Speaker 3: would agree that it was an identity that he lost.
Speaker 3: But you know, when you go from being famous and
Speaker 3: then all of a sudden you're not, whether it's at
Speaker 3: you're canceled, or you leave a show that you've been,
Speaker 3: you know, part of for so long, and I guess
Speaker 3: it's different if you decide to leave. But even if
Speaker 3: you do decide to leave.
Speaker 2: Whether you're fired or put on pause or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: that is a big piece of your identity, it is,
Speaker 2: and when you are separated from that, you can really
Speaker 2: have an identity crisis.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've seen it. I've
Speaker 3: not been close friends with anyone that has gone through it,
Speaker 3: but it, you know, would unfolds in social media, and
Speaker 3: it feels like it's very, very hard for people to rebound. Specifically,
Speaker 3: I think Housewives I'm talking about, but certainly there are
Speaker 3: plenty of famous people that all of a sudden they're
Speaker 3: not in the spotlight anymore for whatever reason. I mean, Jack,
Speaker 3: you've been doing Housewives way longer than I have, and
Speaker 3: you know you've gone through some stuff, but you probably
Speaker 3: are more of an expert in terms of like speaking
Speaker 3: to this.
Speaker 1: Right well, I mean my.
Speaker 2: Step back to friend role from full time. Even though
Speaker 2: that was something that I had spoken to Bravo about
Speaker 2: and we all decided that was best considering my mental
Speaker 2: stata at the time, it was still very hard for me.
Speaker 2: And when I started filming my fifth season suddenly as
Speaker 2: a friend instead of a full time cast member. My
Speaker 2: head was spinning. I was so upset. All the time,
Speaker 2: I felt really insecure. I would walk into rooms and
Speaker 2: instead of being put into scenes, I was told to
Speaker 2: wait until full time cast members had finished talking, and
Speaker 2: it made me feel oh yeah, I felt so I
Speaker 2: didn't know what to do with myself. I kept asking myself,
Speaker 2: why am I here, What's going on? And it took
Speaker 2: me a really long probably until the end of that
Speaker 2: season to even feel comfortable, And then I felt really
Speaker 2: uncomfortable again at the reunion. I just didn't know how
Speaker 2: to not be a full time cast member and how
Speaker 2: to be there now.
Speaker 1: I love I've said this all the time.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm pigeonholing myself, but I really
Speaker 2: do love the funeral, mostly because I get to just
Speaker 2: do it and my family doesn't have to do it right,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: And that's not to say that I wouldn't in the future.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm really really comfortable like this, and
Speaker 2: you'll see it this season too. There's none of that
Speaker 2: feeling of like inadequacy this season at all for me.
Speaker 2: I don't genuinely don't feel that anymore. I like the
Speaker 2: friend eral, But that being said, it was a really hard,
Speaker 2: hard transition for me. Plus I wasn't in the best
Speaker 2: place in terms of mental health, but that certainly it
Speaker 2: certainly didn't help. Even though it wasn't my decision, it
Speaker 2: was not easy at all. I went home and questioned
Speaker 2: myself a lot, questioned my worth, questioned my identity.
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's so key, right, And I mean,
Speaker 3: you got demoted as opposed to being put on pause, fired,
Speaker 3: whatever it is, and what then? Right, So when, especially
Speaker 3: with I would think a show like this to have
Speaker 3: it encompasses you, Right, It's not just the three months
Speaker 3: of filming, it's the entire year of social media and
Speaker 3: events and trying to figure out what's coming next, and
Speaker 3: so what happens when that goes away?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Well, So that's why I was so lucky, because I
Speaker 2: got to stay in it and also be out of it.
Speaker 2: And since that time, I have become a master at
Speaker 2: really compartmentalizing work. And I love this show and I
Speaker 2: enjoy my castmates, and I have some really true, genuine friendships.
Speaker 2: But I can step back and let work be work,
Speaker 2: and let the rest of my life be the rest
Speaker 2: of my life, and I don't feel like that's always possible.
Speaker 1: If you're full time.
Speaker 2: It really does take over your life. And some people
Speaker 2: love that and they wanted to take over their life.
Speaker 2: For me, it had become overwhelming. But I will tell
Speaker 2: you that one of the hardest things about being demoted
Speaker 2: was the social media, because no matter what I would
Speaker 2: do on social media, there would be at least like
Speaker 2: one hundred comments saying shut up you're demoted, or shut
Speaker 2: up demotion or they called me demoted.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It was like for a down like
Speaker 1: it was. It was really hard.
Speaker 2: It made me feel really bad about myself and it
Speaker 2: took me a while to get passed.
Speaker 3: Listen, and the truth is said, they weren't calling you demoted.
Speaker 3: They were calling you a whore, a thief people on
Speaker 3: social media. Social media is the devil. So it's like,
Speaker 3: if they're not calling you one thing, at least that's
Speaker 3: been what I've seen, they're calling you something else. Maybe
Speaker 3: demoted is like the lesser of many evils. I don't know,
Speaker 3: but it is really hard. I mean, I didn't have
Speaker 3: to do this.
Speaker 2: I still stayed honestly the friend role nothing has changed
Speaker 2: except for the fact that my family doesn't film. I
Speaker 2: still am invited to everything I go to, everything I do,
Speaker 2: a ton of press. I also had a book come
Speaker 2: out this year, so I'd said I had more press
Speaker 2: than like anybody's, but I not anybody. I mean, but
Speaker 2: I had a ton of press, more than I've ever had.
Speaker 2: So for me, things haven't really changed so much, right,
Speaker 2: But I can't imagine going from all of this to
Speaker 2: suddenly being knocked off the show and having none of
Speaker 2: it anymore, because it.
Speaker 1: Does dry up.
Speaker 3: The interesting thing I think is when I watch housewives
Speaker 3: who have like really rough seasons right like like go
Speaker 3: through so much, seems so unhappy. I can't imagine being
Speaker 3: in the spotlight. I mean, you think about someone like
Speaker 3: Kyle who's been doing it for so long on Beverly Hills,
Speaker 3: and what she's gone through, the ups and the downs,
Speaker 3: and then but continuing to want it right, continuing to
Speaker 3: sign on the dotted line, because what does it mean
Speaker 3: if you don't, And what are you really losing if
Speaker 3: you're not a public figure anymore, not a housewife anymore. Again,
Speaker 3: all of this is not just applied to the housewives,
Speaker 3: of course, but that's what you know, where we come from,
Speaker 3: and you know, why would you want to continue going
Speaker 3: down that rat trap. It's not always that obviously, there's
Speaker 3: a lot of positives in being a housewife. But you
Speaker 3: see then when people do, you know, stop being housewives,
Speaker 3: they want to do it again, or they want to
Speaker 3: do an ultimate girls trip, or they want to do
Speaker 3: another show, and so you know, what are they missing.
Speaker 3: It's not easy to be a housewife or a friend
Speaker 3: of for that matter, and it's also very anxiety producing.
Speaker 3: It is also an adventure and really can be just
Speaker 3: so much fun. And of course there's so much about
Speaker 3: it that's positive, but there are there's stuff that's negative.
Speaker 2: There's also a really decent paycheck, and we're forgetting that part,
Speaker 2: you know, and a lot of people need this money.
Speaker 1: But I don't think everyone does. I don't think everyone does.
Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, obviously, but I think.
Speaker 3: That I think without the paycheck that there would still
Speaker 3: be that sort of panic after I don't.
Speaker 2: I think eighty percent of the Housewolds wouldn't do it
Speaker 2: if there wasn't a paycheck.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I really do. I don't agree.
Speaker 2: I think maybe for a year or two, but I
Speaker 2: think without a paycheck, I think a lot of them
Speaker 2: would not.
Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I mean, look at Robin Dixon just left.
Speaker 2: I don't think she made an official announcement yet, so
Speaker 2: I could be wrong, but as of recording, it's being reported.
Speaker 1: That she left at Candas Dillard.
Speaker 2: I know that Robin's husband has had a shaky job lately.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that he's working. I don't know what's
Speaker 1: going on with that. But I can't imagine that she
Speaker 1: would walk away from such a big paycheck if she's
Speaker 1: the only one with a stable income right right now.
Speaker 3: I get that, but you know, you know, also, I
Speaker 3: think when I started we started recording my first season,
Speaker 3: which was just whatever a season ago. But one of
Speaker 3: the producers said to me, and I would have angst
Speaker 3: throughout the you know, the filming of it and stuff
Speaker 3: that would go down. It was my first season, and
Speaker 3: it was extremely uncomfortable and being me and being this neurotic,
Speaker 3: there was stuff that just wouldn't just sort of you know,
Speaker 3: you've been doing this a while. I just didn't feel like, well,
Speaker 3: this is work and this is life. It's it's you know,
Speaker 3: I think those lines get very blurred, but the producer
Speaker 3: said to me, I would be like, I can't do this,
Speaker 3: and he said, really, Let's see what happens after the
Speaker 3: season airs.
Speaker 1: Let's see how you feel.
Speaker 3: Let's see how you feel once you're a little famous,
Speaker 3: because you'll be the only one that doesn't get addicted
Speaker 3: to it. And so obviously I do think it's some money.
Speaker 3: I do agree with you that you have to factor
Speaker 3: in all of these things. But when you go from
Speaker 3: being I mean, I'm not famous. You have been doing
Speaker 3: this a lot longer than I have, Jackie, so it's
Speaker 3: a different thing for you. But when you go from
Speaker 3: getting so much attention and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: you don't, I think that's an esteem thing. It's a
Speaker 3: certainly it's an identity thing. And I know that I'm
Speaker 3: because I am new to all of this. Still I
Speaker 3: try to prep myself because, especially if I'm fifty five
Speaker 3: years old, like, my trajectory is not to be the
Speaker 3: next you, Teresa Judas. You won't see me in twenty years,
Speaker 3: you know, being a housewife. So it's it's going to end,
Speaker 3: whether it ends, this is it or it's going to.
Speaker 2: End for everybody right flash, Like I don't think anybody
Speaker 2: is going to be here in a decade from now,
Speaker 2: like look back in twenty thirty four, and like it's
Speaker 2: not happening.
Speaker 3: Well either way. Like I I try to keep myself
Speaker 3: in check, like and the thing is, I have a
Speaker 3: whole life outside, like all of us do outside of
Speaker 3: this show. And I was it's my life was happy,
Speaker 3: not always happy, but happy and you know, filled with
Speaker 3: a lot of good stuff before I got on the
Speaker 3: Housewives of New Jersey. So I just always kind of
Speaker 3: like doing a check because I see these housewives. They
Speaker 3: get off and they've seem they're so eager to get
Speaker 3: back on and they want their jobs back. Is it
Speaker 3: a money thing, is it a fame thing, is it
Speaker 3: an esteem thing? Is it an ego thing?
Speaker 2: Well, I think some of them don't have very fulfilling
Speaker 2: lives outside of the show. I really think that they
Speaker 2: don't have that much to go back to. I mean,
Speaker 2: take somebody like and I really like this person, but
Speaker 2: take somebody like Shannon, right, she's been on the show
Speaker 2: along to Orange County. Shannon Shannon Badoor on Orange County.
Speaker 2: She's great, bubbly, has beautiful children, but I believe she's
Speaker 2: an empty nester.
Speaker 1: Now I think, right, they're all off in college.
Speaker 2: And her relationship of the past three years is like
Speaker 2: burned to the ground, and he's now dating one of
Speaker 2: her ex friends very publicly. She just had a horrific,
Speaker 2: you know, public embarrassing dui where she like hit house
Speaker 2: and ran away, I mean like and she wants to
Speaker 2: come back.
Speaker 1: So I don't think.
Speaker 2: That her life, her life felt very fulfilled outside of it,
Speaker 2: she had a relationship that was special to her, or
Speaker 2: she saw her kids all the time. I don't think
Speaker 2: that I think she'd be in a healthy enough place
Speaker 2: to say this is not working for me.
Speaker 3: Well, think about though, think about like a Heather du
Speaker 3: Bro and I would hope that we can like come
Speaker 3: up with examples that are not just just housewives, because
Speaker 3: housewise is any tiny they were in it is, But
Speaker 3: there's also a whole world that there are people that
Speaker 3: like our guest, who sort of go through you know,
Speaker 3: being uber famous on TV and then not so. But
Speaker 3: having said that, like a Heather who doesn't seem to
Speaker 3: me that she's doing it for the money, seems to
Speaker 3: have a you know, you never know obviously what really
Speaker 3: goes down with people, but adorable what it is for
Speaker 3: adorable kids. They see her and Terry seem madly in love.
Speaker 3: But if she keeps signing up for it and ps,
Speaker 3: I don't think every season is that easy for her.
Speaker 3: I think she has a lot of really, really tough seasons.
Speaker 3: So what's that about that you? So? I think that
Speaker 3: people can have full lives, but there's an addiction that
Speaker 3: happens here. So it's I think it's the money. I
Speaker 3: think it's the fame. And what is that about? Like
Speaker 3: if people don't recognize you, do you not feel like
Speaker 3: you're enough?
Speaker 2: If I think for a lot of people, that was
Speaker 2: where I am was last year, but where I am
Speaker 2: now is so drastically different.
Speaker 1: I am not.
Speaker 2: I'm saying this honestly. I am so not addicted to this.
Speaker 2: You see the way I am.
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't go to like the things like every I
Speaker 2: don't go to the opening of an envelope the way
Speaker 2: that everybody else does, like I pick and choose now,
Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to be in the center
Speaker 2: because I know, based on the things I've done this
Speaker 2: last year, I know that I can remain if I
Speaker 2: want to remain in the spotlight. I don't need necessarily
Speaker 2: a show. There's a lot of other things I can do.
Speaker 2: I don't think that everybody believes that.
Speaker 3: But what if you can't remain in the spotlight. So
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about you, what I I think I'd
Speaker 3: be okay, So that's the question, that's I think.
Speaker 1: But I know I'm smart, I can do things right.
Speaker 3: But let's say that you don't feel that way because
Speaker 3: I work I talk about this a lot in therapy,
Speaker 3: and so if you're not famous, if you can't make
Speaker 3: yourself famous another way, right, So so I do really
Speaker 3: work on trying to understand that, like the fame, being
Speaker 3: at the top or being at the bottom, none of
Speaker 3: it is really real, right, So if you're not in
Speaker 3: touch with yourself and who you are. And I don't
Speaker 3: want to get all you know, therap pew dick and
Speaker 3: but it's it's just what I do work on it.
Speaker 3: I worked on it way before this show. But let's
Speaker 3: say you know you're not at the top and you
Speaker 3: get kicked off a show, or you know you're at
Speaker 3: the very bottom trying to climb up, or at the
Speaker 3: top trying to avoid getting you know, fire, whatever a
Speaker 3: situation that's in it all goes back to the fact
Speaker 3: that if you're not content, you know, within yourself, I
Speaker 3: know that not only are you enough, Like and again
Speaker 3: I'm sorry for all this. Hope this doesn't sound too corny,
Speaker 3: but that you are okay, and you are loved, and
Speaker 3: you're not more because you're famous, and you're not less
Speaker 3: because you're famous, and it's all just a matter of
Speaker 3: you know, that feeling of loving yourself and not needing
Speaker 3: attention from outside.
Speaker 1: True and yes, but also you have to believe that
Speaker 1: there are other ways.
Speaker 2: I mean, like we'll talk to our guests about but
Speaker 2: like he had a very hard departure from his you know,
Speaker 2: the show that defined him. But as we'll learn today,
Speaker 2: he is embarking on some new ventures and they're really
Speaker 2: really exciting and very big. It's very easy to think
Speaker 2: that this is it and when one door closes, then
Speaker 2: your life just closes down.
Speaker 1: No, I don't want to. I think that it's that's
Speaker 1: the trick. I hope.
Speaker 3: That's what I try to prep my own self for,
Speaker 3: like feeling all of this and this is such an
Speaker 3: adventure and you know, being at a premiere and there's
Speaker 3: cameras and oh my god, I can't you know, it's
Speaker 3: overwhelming and very exciting, but it doesn't I'm really I
Speaker 3: really try hard. That's not what I want to define me,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's not what I want to fill
Speaker 3: me up. I wanted to be exciting in the moment,
Speaker 3: have the fun, and then be able to step back
Speaker 3: and know that if it went away, I'll be okay.
Speaker 3: I mean, I was even thinking about like TJ and Amy.
Speaker 3: TJ Holmes and Amy Robach. We talked about them last week.
Speaker 3: But the way that they said aft you know, now
Speaker 3: that they're not on Good Morning America, they would never
Speaker 3: go back. I don't know what the future holds for
Speaker 3: them exactly, but how they said that, they were really
Speaker 3: so unhappy. You know, on Good Morning America, TJ spoke
Speaker 3: about the depression that he battled and it got really
Speaker 3: really bad for a while. But it's interesting because they
Speaker 3: they were there, both of them were there for such
Speaker 3: a long time, and they were they're both very famous,
Speaker 3: both in the spotlight, and now they're not, and you know,
Speaker 3: in some ways there's so much happier. So I don't know,
Speaker 3: maybe they do crave the spotlight back. I don't know
Speaker 3: what they know. Their next move is but I think
Speaker 3: it's always a mixed bag. But I definitely think that
Speaker 3: for someone like our guests, we're being very mysterious about
Speaker 3: the guest. And for a lot of housewives, and I'm
Speaker 3: not a housewife, I'm a friend of a housewife. But
Speaker 3: if this is my last season, I am, there could
Speaker 3: be a big I could have a big identity crisis.
Speaker 3: I really really hope not, but it's certainly possible because
Speaker 3: I see it, you know, with other people that have
Speaker 3: been housewives or friends of how to handle that and
Speaker 3: how to know that, like life goes on and you're
Speaker 3: enough even if you walk into a restaurant and no
Speaker 3: one knows who you are, which.
Speaker 2: Is actually and like I want me talking to plenty
Speaker 2: of restaurants, and I am people like to get free
Speaker 2: stuff all the time.
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I might get like a.
Speaker 2: Free canoli at the end of dinner, but like it's
Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm out at an event that I'm
Speaker 2: invited to, of course they get free stuff. But like
Speaker 2: in general, I'm paying for my meals. I pay for everything.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm one of these people who don't
Speaker 2: like to take advantage of small businesses. So I know
Speaker 2: plenty of people are always like, you should get this
Speaker 2: for free, you should get even people on our cast.
Speaker 1: No, you should get that for free, and you should
Speaker 1: get that. I don't want to I would.
Speaker 2: I mean, of course, everybody likes a freebie, but like,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask for anything from a small
Speaker 2: business that's not offering it for free, because I believe
Speaker 2: that like that's I want to help.
Speaker 1: Them succeed and thrive.
Speaker 3: I think that a lot of small businesses or not
Speaker 3: even small business, but they want the exposure quote unquote
Speaker 3: you know, so like if you highlight my company and
Speaker 3: what we do, that'll bring more business. And I think
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff is negotiated like that.
Speaker 2: If they approach me and they want it like that,
Speaker 2: that's one thing. But like to push a small business
Speaker 2: to give me things for free is not great in
Speaker 2: my personality.
Speaker 1: But I do think that we like that on reality TV.
Speaker 2: And one thing that makes it really hard to stay
Speaker 2: there and maybe a blessing in disguise when you do leave.
Speaker 2: Not not me, I'm saying other people who have decided
Speaker 2: to leave, is that it's the public really enjoys watching
Speaker 2: people fail and canceling them and watching them discover their
Speaker 2: spouse is cheating or having a mental breakdown or you know,
Speaker 2: having going bankrupt or getting a dui. Like the internet
Speaker 2: goes crazy, we go crazy?
Speaker 1: Is that? Why? Why do we?
Speaker 3: And it's and I say we because you know, in
Speaker 3: the past, watching everything goes back to the housewise all
Speaker 3: rose lead back to houses. But watching housewives and there
Speaker 3: were cast members or whatever characters that I really didn't like,
Speaker 3: right that I thought, you know, this one is such
Speaker 3: a bitch. And then something happened, and unfortunately I would
Speaker 3: get satisfaction, not something necessarily was horri horrifying or I'm
Speaker 3: not talking about you know, God forbid, like an illness
Speaker 3: or a child or anything like that, but like when
Speaker 3: you see someone kind of get theirs and I hate
Speaker 3: that part of myself and I know it's there and
Speaker 3: it makes me human and I know for all of
Speaker 3: us that's I mean, And that's a battle ife fight,
Speaker 3: right too, even if I when you don't like someone,
Speaker 3: still knowing that they're human and still praying for their health,
Speaker 3: wealth and happiness.
Speaker 1: But it's not easy.
Speaker 3: And I do sometimes myself when I really don't like
Speaker 3: someone and I'm watching them on a housewives show, get
Speaker 3: satisfaction out of like, ha, you know you got yours.
Speaker 1: And it's just I think it's a human response. It
Speaker 1: is very human and but but it's also very sad.
Speaker 2: We do.
Speaker 1: We are in a and I'm not saying it's always wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm saying sometimes people do truly deserve to be canceled.
Speaker 1: But man, do we cancel people really? Oh my god?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's brutal and that I am not into the
Speaker 3: cancel culture at Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 1: Really into it either.
Speaker 2: And I think if somebody does something really terrible, like
Speaker 2: that's one thing. But wow, we cancel curiously. We don't
Speaker 2: cancel people for anti Semitism that easily.
Speaker 1: But it's a different episode. Yes, yes, I.
Speaker 2: Mean my god, sometimes it feels like you can say
Speaker 2: anything about us.
Speaker 1: But I'm with you there, sister. Yeah, we'll go into
Speaker 1: that another time.
Speaker 2: So, but what about you do you do you have
Speaker 2: like this big fear of not being asked back?
Speaker 3: No, And I know that you don't always even probably
Speaker 3: don't even necessarily believe me because it feels like everybody
Speaker 3: is so afraid of being not being asked BacT. I
Speaker 3: don't have a fear about it. I have though at
Speaker 3: a healthy self awareness that if I don't, my ego
Speaker 3: will be bruised. And that's a different thing. I don't
Speaker 3: have a fear that like my life won't go on.
Speaker 3: It's more an ego thing. And it's more like, oh,
Speaker 3: I wasn't good enough and they were better than me,
Speaker 3: and I am not proud of that. But it's not
Speaker 3: like what will I do now? It's more, you know, Well,
Speaker 3: when I was told that I was just going to
Speaker 3: be a friend of at the beginning, when we were
Speaker 3: all brought in, Danielle and Rachel and myself, and then
Speaker 3: it was going to be decided who was going to
Speaker 3: go on to become a housewife, and it wasn't me.
Speaker 3: I was going to stay a friend of anyway. That first,
Speaker 3: the moment that I found out, and probably for a day,
Speaker 3: I was like devastated, how dare you? I feel like
Speaker 3: I've spoken about this on the on this have we
Speaker 3: spoken about this before here on the pod? Well, when
Speaker 3: I found out, I was like, you know, how dare you?
Speaker 3: And then I was just I was I found myself
Speaker 3: getting choked up after hearing it, and I was just spinning.
Speaker 3: And a friend of mine, her name is Marcy anyway, she.
Speaker 3: I was talking to her about it and very upset,
Speaker 3: and she's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like,
Speaker 3: you've got to be kidding me. You have an opportunity
Speaker 3: to do something that is so exciting, and you're getting
Speaker 3: to do it without having to expose so much. Have
Speaker 3: people come into your home and you know, put Jeff
Speaker 3: through cameras in his face, and although I think now
Speaker 3: Jeff probably would have loved it, but anyway, so you know,
Speaker 3: you have like such a great scenario going here, and
Speaker 3: what do you what do you at?
Speaker 1: Like, what do you want?
Speaker 3: And I had to like stop, think it through, and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, and I swear this is true
Speaker 3: because I was like, well, I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 3: If I'm gonna I called the next day. I called
Speaker 3: the producers not making this up, and I said, guys,
Speaker 3: please ignore me.
Speaker 1: It was all my ego. I'm good.
Speaker 3: I just felt like in that moment, this sense of rejection.
Speaker 3: And even when I started, I was like, you know what,
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm going to be end up being
Speaker 3: a housewife. I'll be a friend of a housewife. That'll
Speaker 3: be great, but it's it. It was all my ego
Speaker 3: and it worked out for me beautifully, right. I had
Speaker 3: a great time. We had a great time, and you
Speaker 3: know it wasn't I watched some of our other cast
Speaker 3: mates and they get it's just so invasive.
Speaker 2: I mean, Jen, you want to know the honest truth.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I've said this to you. I
Speaker 2: think it was just an age thing. And I don't
Speaker 2: think that Bravo's agist. I just think that they're like,
Speaker 2: they wanted young, young families. That's what Jersey is, It's families, agreed.
Speaker 1: I really think that you.
Speaker 2: I think you and I'm not just saying this because
Speaker 2: you're my closest friend on the cast, but I think
Speaker 2: that you have the most dynamic personality of the three movies.
Speaker 1: I really do. I think that people love you.
Speaker 2: I've never seen people drawn to a friend the way
Speaker 2: that they are to you, and I've never seen.
Speaker 1: A friend grow so fast the way that you have.
Speaker 2: But and people don't even realize you're a friend, Like
Speaker 2: everyone just calls you a housewife. But I think that
Speaker 2: that they want young families.
Speaker 1: Firstly, I appreciate what you just said.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Jack, And yeah, I mean I was very
Speaker 3: happy with the amount of you know, airtime I got
Speaker 3: and all of that worked out, and I agree that
Speaker 3: it is Jersey is a family franchise, and so of
Speaker 3: course think that that has a lot to do that
Speaker 3: I'm an empty nester, you know. But I will say
Speaker 3: that it was just an interesting ride for me the
Speaker 3: first couple of days to go from like this feeling
Speaker 3: of you know, rejection and inadequacy to wow, you dumb bitch,
Speaker 3: like this is a great scenario for you.
Speaker 1: Are you crazy?
Speaker 3: And I remember the next morning calling the producers insane
Speaker 3: guys because I was huffing and puffing. I was like,
Speaker 3: please forgive me. It was my ego. I'm good, this
Speaker 3: is all great, So just forget what I said. And
Speaker 3: it wasn't just because I didn't, you know, even wanted
Speaker 3: to stay on the show. And I was just like,
Speaker 3: really just felt like my feelings were just hurt. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And so I was sort of reacting from that and
Speaker 3: then I stepped back from it. But guess what then
Speaker 3: again this past summer, when I was told I'm going
Speaker 3: to be a friend of again, because I had people
Speaker 3: saying are you going to be full time? I had
Speaker 3: the same like like there was no I had the
Speaker 3: same reaction, I was like, what, I was totally cool.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, peace, well I.
Speaker 3: Was I was again my feelings were hurt. And then
Speaker 3: again I swear I'm not making this up. The next day,
Speaker 3: I was like, you dumb bitch, get a grip, like
Speaker 3: this was so fun the first time, it'll be fun
Speaker 3: the second time.
Speaker 1: I guess is here.
Speaker 2: But I just want to say, with regard to the
Speaker 2: people that have left the shows as of recording time,
Speaker 2: I hope that Candice has a really successful music career
Speaker 2: because I think she's very talented and I thoroughly enjoy
Speaker 2: her song drive Back.
Speaker 1: I think it's such a bop, and I wish only
Speaker 1: a really.
Speaker 2: Successful career for her. But so, why don't you announce
Speaker 2: our guests?
Speaker 3: You guys, we are really really excited. So today's guest,
Speaker 3: I think you probably all will know. He's somebody that
Speaker 3: did a reality show for how many years?
Speaker 1: Jack? Oh god, I don't even know. Forever, fifteen years? Well,
Speaker 1: I can't forever was right?
Speaker 3: He was the heart and soul of a shifty years Okay,
Speaker 3: so he was the heart and soul of a show
Speaker 3: you may know called The Bachelor.
Speaker 1: Our guest is Chris Harrison.
Speaker 4: Hi, Chris Harrison, good afternoon, Good day to you. How's
Speaker 4: it going, Good.
Speaker 1: Day to you. Well, it's going well. Now we are.
Speaker 3: We've actually, you guys had the honor of being on
Speaker 3: Chris's podcast.
Speaker 1: That was a really really good day.
Speaker 3: And we've been pressuring him to come on ours, and
Speaker 3: he broke under the pressure.
Speaker 1: Finally I did.
Speaker 4: Finally. First of all, congratulations because the podcast is doing
Speaker 4: amazingly well. You guys are crushing it. The numbers have
Speaker 4: been fantastic.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 4: It doesn't surprise me that you guys have really resonated
Speaker 4: with the fans and everybody. He's loving it. And so
Speaker 4: I really don't do a lot of podcasts anymore because,
Speaker 4: as you know, when you have your own podcast, you
Speaker 4: kind of need to save all the good dirt.
Speaker 1: True, Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 4: But I did. I broke down for you too.
Speaker 2: Okay, So feel free not to answer anything you don't
Speaker 2: want to answer, but we're going to ask all the questions.
Speaker 1: So now we won't we won't.
Speaker 2: Put you on the spot, but we are excited to
Speaker 2: congratulate you. We heard that you have a new TV comeback.
Speaker 2: Can you tell us about it?
Speaker 4: Yeah, this has been such a phenomenal blessing and kind
Speaker 4: of I would say, a nice surprise, but we've been
Speaker 4: working at it for a while, so it's not like
Speaker 4: it just came out of nowhere. But we have joined
Speaker 4: forces with Doctor Phil at Merritt Street Media. You know,
Speaker 4: there was a big story a year or two ago
Speaker 4: whatever when Doctor Phil decided to up and leave CBS,
Speaker 4: and everyone's like, what in the world. He's the number
Speaker 4: one talk show host. What is happening? And it's a
Speaker 4: big deal for CBS to lose him. And he had
Speaker 4: been quietly working behind the scenes to build and bought
Speaker 4: a network that is called Merritt Street Media. It's debuting
Speaker 4: April second. It'll be the biggest network debut ever, over
Speaker 4: eighty million subscribers, from Dish to direct to all the
Speaker 4: cable companies. And he came to us US, meaning Lauren
Speaker 4: and I my wife, and we had our production company,
Speaker 4: and he said, look, I think it's crazy you're not
Speaker 4: on TV. I don't understand it. I want you back
Speaker 4: on TV, and I want you to be working on
Speaker 4: my show, Doctor Phil Primetime, kind of what he was
Speaker 4: doing with Oprah, I will be doing with him. We've
Speaker 4: already started taping those shows, but then he said, I
Speaker 4: want you guys to think bigger. What do you want
Speaker 4: to do? And so Lauren and I are in the
Speaker 4: midst of cranking out a morning show. We're in the
Speaker 4: hiring phase of that. There will also be a relationship show,
Speaker 4: a reality show. And it is maybe the most incredible
Speaker 4: exciting news I've had in my career. I mean so
Speaker 4: pumped to be doing this.
Speaker 2: Are you the talent on the morning show where you're
Speaker 2: just putting it together as a producer.
Speaker 4: No, Laura and I are going to be hosting it together.
Speaker 4: We're going to take We're taking the magic of the
Speaker 4: podcast and we're launching it into a morning show.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 4: Working with Lauren is phenomenal. She is incredibly funny, very
Speaker 4: good at improv, took you know, worked on improv for
Speaker 4: many years, has a great comedic note to her. But
Speaker 4: she's also brilliant and smart and well read and pushes
Speaker 4: me in.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what Jeff Sessler says about me. Yeah, like
Speaker 1: Worth would kill me if we were goodness. But so
Speaker 1: the dating show is it's different than The Bachelor? I'm
Speaker 1: assuming of course.
Speaker 4: Yes, it'll be. It'll it'll be different. We won't say
Speaker 4: how and what just yet, but it has been something
Speaker 4: that this idea we we kind of hatched and then
Speaker 4: I was this doctor Phil thing came and we went
Speaker 4: and pitched it to him because now that I'm kind
Speaker 4: of in the family and I want to keep everything
Speaker 4: on Merritt Street. He bought it in the room and
Speaker 4: it really is refreshing because you know, you guys are
Speaker 4: obviously in the industry. The industry has been dumped on
Speaker 4: its head lately. Yeah, you know, everybody is contracting cutting.
Speaker 4: It's the business has become very much business and not
Speaker 4: creative anymore. The people making the decisions are bean counters
Speaker 4: and tech people, and they're not creatives who understand the
Speaker 4: business who have many of them have never even created
Speaker 4: television before, and they're making these huge decisions, and you're
Speaker 4: seeing the repercussions. These streamers are struggling. They're either closing
Speaker 4: their doors or they are massively cutting costs. Same thing
Speaker 4: with a lot of these studios. Now you have doctor
Speaker 4: Phil who is doing the exact opposite. He is a host,
Speaker 4: he has created before, and he's the one that's pulling
Speaker 4: the strings and he is creating this network and it
Speaker 4: has been so refreshing.
Speaker 3: I bet when do you think that started? When do
Speaker 3: you think that switch began? And I don't know if
Speaker 3: you're also talking about the way we were talking about
Speaker 3: people getting canceled and buyed and all of that, and
Speaker 3: we'll get into that certainly with you, but what do
Speaker 3: you think that's about. When did that switch happen where
Speaker 3: it became about being counters making decisions and as opposed
Speaker 3: to creative people being able.
Speaker 1: To do their thing.
Speaker 4: You know, Lauren and I talk about this a lot
Speaker 4: because we're very much into the business, and we listened
Speaker 4: to so many podcasts about this, and you know, you
Speaker 4: would have to go there was first Netflix and Netflix
Speaker 4: came on the scene and you remember like House of
Speaker 4: Cards with Kevin Spacey and Lamon Wright and it was incredible.
Speaker 4: But at the same time, you're hearing these numbers and
Speaker 4: it's twenty million dollars for this and twenty million dollars
Speaker 4: for this, and the right you're thinking to yourself, wait,
Speaker 4: you have no advertising. You're charging four dollars or seven
Speaker 4: dollars a month for subscription and you're paying one hundreds
Speaker 4: of million dollars. This is not sustainable. This can't work,
Speaker 4: and then you had this flood of Peacock and Hulu
Speaker 4: and you name it Paramount. Everybody was like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: we got to have a streamer. Well, again, it's not
Speaker 4: sustainable because you have no advertising dollars. Well, and seven
Speaker 4: to ten dollars a month from a subscriber is not
Speaker 4: going to make it possible to make a Game Thrones
Speaker 4: or to make any of these incredible epic movies or shows.
Speaker 4: And so I think you had the Amazons of the
Speaker 4: world Apples of the world. To them, it's a rounding air.
Speaker 4: They don't care.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Amazon is not worried about making television. They hope you
Speaker 4: buy underwear. They hope you're buying your shoes. So it's
Speaker 4: a rounding air for them. If they lose money on
Speaker 4: their streamer, it doesn't matter. Same thing with Apple. They're
Speaker 4: the most cash flush company in the world. So if
Speaker 4: they lose money on Masters of the Air with Tom
Speaker 4: Hanks and Spielberg, they don't care. It's not that big
Speaker 4: of it. I mean, I say they don't care. They
Speaker 4: would love to make money, but it's not a big
Speaker 4: deal because what they care about is that you and
Speaker 4: I are sitting here with our phones and then you
Speaker 4: have apples and oranges, right, you have real studios like
Speaker 4: Disney and some of these you know, some of these
Speaker 4: studios that they really need the content to work. That's
Speaker 4: how they make their money. So when you have people
Speaker 4: trying to make money off content and company that don't care,
Speaker 4: something's got to give.
Speaker 3: Very interesting and Merritt Street is going to be one
Speaker 3: of those that actually care.
Speaker 4: That the best name by the way, ever, well, it
Speaker 4: was very intentional, doctor Phil was very intentional on merit
Speaker 4: and earning the respect and trying to make television for
Speaker 4: the rest of the country that feels like they've really
Speaker 4: been left out of the conversation lately. Wow, and and
Speaker 4: kind of take over the debate world, and let's start
Speaker 4: having television and news for those that don't want to
Speaker 4: just win an argument. You would really like toy solve
Speaker 4: problem A.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm really excited to see you back on TV.
Speaker 2: Was there any hesitation on your part, considering you got
Speaker 2: pretty beat up by the TV world by social media?
Speaker 1: Was there any hesitation?
Speaker 4: Not at all? You know, I luckily, you know, I
Speaker 4: was divorced and went through a you know, I was
Speaker 4: married for what seventeen eighteen years and then got divorced,
Speaker 4: and I may I'm sure that after I got divorced,
Speaker 4: because the one thing we all do, whether we go
Speaker 4: through something tragic or grief or divorce, is there's that
Speaker 4: snapback of like, oh my gosh, I need to start
Speaker 4: dating again, or I need to get back out there,
Speaker 4: I need to be back in a relationship. And I
Speaker 4: was very good about pumping the brakes, giving myself time
Speaker 4: to heal, grow, get my life back in order, and
Speaker 4: then start dating again. I felt the same thing about
Speaker 4: the Bacheler. I've been doing it for nineteen years, and
Speaker 4: obviously there was that traumatic split with the Bachelor, and
Speaker 4: I pumped the brakes and just took some time off
Speaker 4: and made sure I got my kids off to college
Speaker 4: and enjoyed that. I fell in love and got married
Speaker 4: to Lauren Zema and really got my sea legs back
Speaker 4: under me. But now the fire was burning again, and
Speaker 4: I really got to the point where the podcast was going.
Speaker 4: But that's not enough for me. I want to do more.
Speaker 4: And this came along and it was just the perfect timing.
Speaker 4: So when doctor Phil approached us and we went and
Speaker 4: had lunch several times, and he says, I want you back,
Speaker 4: there was no question, no has it at all, especially
Speaker 4: considering how he's doing it and what this network stands for.
Speaker 3: So I'm interested in two things. Well, first where in
Speaker 3: the kron a lot chronology of it all? The divorce
Speaker 3: and your exit from the Bachelor?
Speaker 4: Oh uh, nowhere close? We were my divorce, I like
Speaker 4: what twenty eleven? I think it was. So it was
Speaker 4: a while ago, okay, and then took some time to
Speaker 4: be single and dated and you know, it was in
Speaker 4: some relationships, and then you know, it took a while
Speaker 4: to come back around and find the one and only
Speaker 4: Lauren Zema.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: Well, I ask you because I and this is obviously
Speaker 3: where we're going with all of this. And I don't
Speaker 3: know how much you've actually spoken about your exit from
Speaker 3: the Bachelor, but I'm picturing a scenario that must have
Speaker 3: been very, very difficult. So and then picturing divorce a
Speaker 3: divorce into the mix. So I'm glad that you had
Speaker 3: some separation from those two things. And maybe you're going
Speaker 3: to tell us that it wasn't difficult, But I really
Speaker 3: think that you are going to tell us that your
Speaker 3: exit from the Bachelor was not pleasant.
Speaker 4: Oh, of course it was not pleasant. It was, and
Speaker 4: one hundred percent I've said it's difficult, and it was difficult.
Speaker 4: I wouldn't wish that. I wouldn't wish what we went through.
Speaker 4: And I say, well, because it was my family as
Speaker 4: well on anybody. It was brutal. But at the same time, oddly,
Speaker 4: and I really haven't spoken about this, it definitely helped
Speaker 4: that I had gone through a divorce. Obviously, the divorce
Speaker 4: it was public, but it wasn't as traumatic and crazy
Speaker 4: and it wasn't as sensationalized as the departure from The
Speaker 4: Bachelor was. But at the same time, the lessons you
Speaker 4: learn when you go through things in life. You know,
Speaker 4: for example, if I had if what I had gone
Speaker 4: through with the Bachelor separation had happened when I was
Speaker 4: thirty years old, thirty five years old, it would I
Speaker 4: would not have handled it and been able to cope
Speaker 4: with it as well as going through it at forty
Speaker 4: nine or fifty or how well, however old I was
Speaker 4: at the time. Experience helps in anything, go through it life.
Speaker 3: Chris, I love this because we are, you know, talking
Speaker 3: about well we talk. We always refer a lot to
Speaker 3: the Housewives for obvious reasons, but of course, but how
Speaker 3: to handle that feeling of being, you know, of losing
Speaker 3: quote unquote relevance and your whole identity. I would think
Speaker 3: so much of it was I hope not, but I'm
Speaker 3: assuming was wrapped up and being the host of the Bachelor.
Speaker 3: But you'd been through this before, You've been through this
Speaker 3: sort of loss and these changes, and it's I would
Speaker 3: love for you to speak more to that, like what
Speaker 3: could you bring into the loss of the Bachelor from
Speaker 3: your divorce and how how did you maintain?
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you get through it?
Speaker 2: Because I mean, I was demoted at one point and
Speaker 2: it was quite a traumatic to my identity and it
Speaker 2: took me a while to find my way back.
Speaker 4: I always and you know it's funny, I always preached
Speaker 4: and lived by a certain value in a code that
Speaker 4: luckily came to fruition during my separation of the Bachelor,
Speaker 4: and that was I never identified myself from what I did.
Speaker 4: I was never a big Hollywood guy. I never defined
Speaker 4: myself by being the Bachelor host. That was not my being.
Speaker 4: My being was being a good dad, being a good husband,
Speaker 4: being a great friend. All my friends, most if not
Speaker 4: all of them, trying to think aren't in the business
Speaker 4: at all. The weird thing about The Bachelor was especially
Speaker 4: early on we were kind of the bastard stepchild of television,
Speaker 4: you know, long before Housewives and all that. This reality
Speaker 4: TV thing was not welcomed by the community. I remember
Speaker 4: going to the upfronts and Lloyd Brown was the president
Speaker 4: of ABC and I was on stage at the I
Speaker 4: think it was Radio City Music Hall in New York,
Speaker 4: and they're announcing all the fall schedules for what's coming up,
Speaker 4: and it's like, according to Jim and NYPD Blue and
Speaker 4: they're like, and I hate to say it, it's unfortunate,
Speaker 4: and you know, I hope it dies a miserable death.
Speaker 4: But the Bachelor's coming to ABC. And I'm like, I
Speaker 4: really felt like, you know, the prostitute of like, sure,
Speaker 4: everybody wants to sleep with us, nobody wants to be seen.
Speaker 1: At lunch with us. That's so funny.
Speaker 4: It's funny, and it's funny the because you know, when
Speaker 4: there's change in the industry, when there's change in life,
Speaker 4: the norm fights back, right. So TV writers and producers
Speaker 4: and even actors were like, they're taking our jobs, they're
Speaker 4: ruining the business. And you know, my whole thing was
Speaker 4: I've never seen a great television show that everybody loves
Speaker 4: be canceled for anything, much less amen a reality show.
Speaker 4: If you have a great show that's doing well, trust me,
Speaker 4: it's not going anywhere. But the funny thing is is
Speaker 4: then everything does a oneint eighty and all those people
Speaker 4: who are bitching and moaning are now hosting game shows,
Speaker 4: hosting reality shows are a part of those shows or
Speaker 4: producing shows. So everybody came around. But early days, it
Speaker 4: was really funny how we were treated, and so I
Speaker 4: was totally I was never really a part of the
Speaker 4: Hollywood community, and I never lived in Hollywood. I always
Speaker 4: lived outside of you know, out of LA and you know,
Speaker 4: raised my kids. And I was the only person, you know,
Speaker 4: in the Housewives. There's a group of you. Well, for me,
Speaker 4: I was the only host that stayed. I was the
Speaker 4: only constant, you know. The Bachelor and bacherettes came and went,
Speaker 4: and so I never really had a cast to hang
Speaker 4: out with. When I would go promote it at ABC
Speaker 4: or other events, I was by myself, and so it
Speaker 4: was a very weird existence but also probably beneficial in
Speaker 4: the end.
Speaker 3: I just absolutely love everything you just said because and
Speaker 3: I would love to adopt it for myself. And we're
Speaker 3: talking about one day it's going to be over. Maybe
Speaker 3: one day soon it'll be over for me, and it has.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't compare. I've been on a Friend
Speaker 3: of the housewive for two years. For two minutes, it
Speaker 3: feels like Jackie's been on a lot longer. But to
Speaker 3: have that sense of identity that can't be swayed by
Speaker 3: being canceled or even fired, right, like you're saying, you
Speaker 3: were filled with children and friendships and living somewhere else.
Speaker 3: So maybe it didn't take you down in the same
Speaker 3: way that it would up if you were younger.
Speaker 2: But I think you also trusted the process and knew
Speaker 2: that other things were to come because you believed in
Speaker 2: your talent and what in your drive, right.
Speaker 1: Is that true?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 4: And I think at the end of the day, you
Speaker 4: got to believe in yourself, and you believe. I know
Speaker 4: I'm a good man, I know my values, I know
Speaker 4: everything that I've stood for for my entire life, much
Speaker 4: less than nineteen years that people have gotten to know
Speaker 4: me on the show, And so I wasn't worried about
Speaker 4: some of the things that were being said about me
Speaker 4: because I just I know they're not true, right, It
Speaker 4: didn't affect me in that way. It definitely affected my
Speaker 4: life and it affected me, but at that part I
Speaker 4: knew I'm a big believer in karma, and I just
Speaker 4: know the truth will come out and I know people will,
Speaker 4: good people win in the end. I truly believe that,
Speaker 4: big optimist. But you know, I also think and i'd
Speaker 4: be interested to throw this back on the two of you.
Speaker 4: I know it was easier for me because I'm a host,
Speaker 4: and while you saw my life somewhat and you got
Speaker 4: to know me, I was the host of the show,
Speaker 4: whereas with you too and all the housewives, the show
Speaker 4: is about your life technically, you know, is everything one
Speaker 4: hundred percent real? No, But it's still you, it's your values.
Speaker 4: We're watching your lives, your marriages, your divorces. So I'm
Speaker 4: just curious how the two of you can walk that line.
Speaker 4: It was maybe a little bit easier for me as
Speaker 4: a host.
Speaker 3: That's that's I think more a question for you, Jack,
Speaker 3: only because you've been doing it for longer.
Speaker 1: I mean, how did I walk that lot?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How did I?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 3: I think are you saying that because it was part
Speaker 3: of your actual personal life.
Speaker 1: So how was it for me to step back from that?
Speaker 4: How does it? How does that not define your how?
Speaker 2: And when I look around at all the other house eyes,
Speaker 2: I mean at Bravocon, I was looking around and like,
Speaker 2: I think that most of the people in that room
Speaker 2: feel defined. They are a housewife first and foremost, and
Speaker 2: it was a really really hard transition. It does define you,
Speaker 2: and that's that's something that I feel very grateful to
Speaker 2: have been able to step back and work on myself
Speaker 2: and realize that it doesn't, because it actually allowed me
Speaker 2: to do a lot of other creative things in the
Speaker 2: past year.
Speaker 1: I wrote a book, I started a podcast, I have
Speaker 1: some other projects starting.
Speaker 2: And I don't think I would have been able to
Speaker 2: do that had my entire life been defined by housewives.
Speaker 4: And I guess we should also differentiate because people might
Speaker 4: be listening and thinking, well, this is what you're known for,
Speaker 4: and there's something different. I understand what I'm known for,
Speaker 4: and I understand, you know, like tonight, Jason Tartick is
Speaker 4: here in Austin, Texas. He's doing a big book launch
Speaker 4: for his new book, and Lauren and I are going
Speaker 4: to go support him. I understand that and I understand. Like,
Speaker 4: I just went back home to Missouri. My son was
Speaker 4: playing lacrosse at Missoo and so we went up there
Speaker 4: because Lauren went to school at Miszoo College kids. Everybody
Speaker 4: was coming up and talking about The Bachelor. And I
Speaker 4: understand what I'm known for. And I will never fight that.
Speaker 4: You know, I'm never one of those people of like, hey,
Speaker 4: I'm going to Merritt Street, Please don't bring up The Bachelor.
Speaker 4: Believe me to be proud of it.
Speaker 1: Of course I am.
Speaker 4: I you know, I'm not proud of everything, but I'm
Speaker 4: very proud of what I did. We've made television history
Speaker 4: over twenty years, and so I will never fight that.
Speaker 4: And I understand what I'm known for. I guess what
Speaker 4: I'm I just want to make sure there's a clarification
Speaker 4: of uh, like what Jackie's saying. I understand what you're
Speaker 4: known for, But what defines your right right? What do
Speaker 4: you allow in your heart and soul of When I
Speaker 4: wake up in the morning of like, Okay, I'm the
Speaker 4: Bachelor guy, It's like, no, I'm I'm a husband, I'm
Speaker 4: a dad, I'm a good friend.
Speaker 3: Can I ase you a personal question that you don't
Speaker 3: have to answer, Well, I'm asking you if I can,
Speaker 3: I'm going to so, but you don't have to answer it.
Speaker 3: So I'm I mean, I talk a lot about the
Speaker 3: fact that I've been in therapy for years and years
Speaker 3: and years, twenty years, but I work on this still
Speaker 3: almost every time every week. And when I say that
Speaker 3: I work on it, not oh my god, if I
Speaker 3: lose my position is the house I have more sort
Speaker 3: of like my identity and becoming comfortable with who I am.
Speaker 3: And I'm sorry again, I'm just I feel like I'm
Speaker 3: just very corny on this whole episode, but like loving
Speaker 3: myself right. But I'm wondering if therapy was something that
Speaker 3: you've ever been in, or you know, maybe even after
Speaker 3: you left the Bachelor it was, or you just naturally
Speaker 3: are this conference and resilient. Yeah, a secure man.
Speaker 4: Number one, I believe in therapy. Number two, I have
Speaker 4: gone to therapy. I went to therapy. Started. The first
Speaker 4: time I ever saw a therapist is back probably in
Speaker 4: my divorce phase, like ty ten twenty eleven, as I
Speaker 4: was unwinding. It was a seventeen year marriage. But I've
Speaker 4: been been with this person, my ex wife, since my
Speaker 4: sophomore year of college when you're eighteen nineteen years old,
Speaker 4: and then you know, when you go from eighteen or
Speaker 4: nineteen to forty, that is you know, those are massive
Speaker 4: years of your life of growing and things where we
Speaker 4: should have been dating and getting broken up with and
Speaker 4: so there was a lot of growing and learning I
Speaker 4: had to do and needed to do. And when I
Speaker 4: started dating again, I mean think about that. You're eighteen
Speaker 4: nineteen years old and you stop, and when I say
Speaker 4: you stop, it's like you kind of stop developing to
Speaker 4: a certain degree, right because you have this one person
Speaker 4: in your life. So I'm not dating anymore. I'm not
Speaker 4: learning how to you know, break up, love, all this,
Speaker 4: you know, heartbreak. And so then all of a sudden,
Speaker 4: I'm forty years old and it's like, okay, now I
Speaker 4: have a little bit of money, a little bit of fame,
Speaker 4: start dating again. Oh my god, It's like there's a
Speaker 4: comedy in there. Believe me, because it was a mess.
Speaker 4: So I hundred percent believe in in therapy. And my
Speaker 4: daughter actually is a psychology major going into child development.
Speaker 4: So we talk about that a lot in our family.
Speaker 1: Amazing. Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 2: There was an article an interview that you gave in
Speaker 2: that was published in December, and you said that you
Speaker 2: had to remove yourself from a toxic situation and that
Speaker 2: it wasn't healthy. Were you talking about the show itself
Speaker 2: or the process by which you were you left the show?
Speaker 2: Because I think we all have opinions on The Bachelor?
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh no, no, And so the thing about The
Speaker 4: Bachelor is the show was an amazing creation and it
Speaker 4: really was revolutionized reality TV and dating shows. I mean,
Speaker 4: you look at what's happening today. There is I've always said,
Speaker 4: there's an insatiable appetite for romance and love. And so
Speaker 4: you see these other shows that have kind of taken
Speaker 4: the mantle of the big shows, whether it's Love Is
Speaker 4: Blind or even a buddy of mine produced f Boy Island,
Speaker 4: And you know, so there's this huge spectrum of shows
Speaker 4: now that are doing very well. So there's still this
Speaker 4: appetite for love and romance. And look, did we do
Speaker 4: everything perfect over the nineteen years I was there?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 4: Are they probably? And I haven't watched the show. Are
Speaker 4: they still doing everything perfectly? Probably?
Speaker 3: Not?
Speaker 4: But that wasn't what I was referring to. I was
Speaker 4: more referring to the world with which I was working
Speaker 4: in thing too detailed.
Speaker 3: Do you think there's also an insatiable appetite for heartbreak and.
Speaker 2: Watching the person get stood up the other person and
Speaker 2: watching them take him home and meet their families and
Speaker 2: then get dumped the next day. I just think that
Speaker 2: it's such a I don't know, we enjoy watching.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we're talking about that at the beginning of
Speaker 3: this episode down Fall the heartbreak. And I don't like
Speaker 3: to admit that about myself, but I do everybody. I
Speaker 3: have those moments when I'm watching reality TV and I'm
Speaker 3: not a fan of whomever. I wish that I, you know,
Speaker 3: could be different, but I'm human and sometimes it's fun
Speaker 3: to see, you know, somebody get there, somebody get theirs.
Speaker 4: And look we all. I think, if you you know,
Speaker 4: it's funny. I just spoke to the journalism school up
Speaker 4: at Missouri and I said the same I said the
Speaker 4: same thing. We were talking about this exact topic. If
Speaker 4: you asked people like it's it's take it to politics.
Speaker 4: When we give these exit polls for politics, you know
Speaker 4: the pundits on TV this, how often are those exit
Speaker 4: polls actually right? Very few times? It's you know, people
Speaker 4: will vote in private speak publicly we watch TV, and
Speaker 4: private we will talk publicly, meaning we will say that
Speaker 4: we love the romance, we love a love story. We
Speaker 4: like it, you know, the fairy tale ending. But even
Speaker 4: in any Disney movie, you know what's it start with.
Speaker 4: It usually starts with a parent being murdered, and then
Speaker 4: you get to the happy ending. And that's Disney for
Speaker 4: crying out last night, So we all will you know,
Speaker 4: in Nascar events, do we want to just see cars
Speaker 4: drive around in a circle. No, it's the idea that
Speaker 4: at any moment, at two hundred miles per hour, this
Speaker 4: car could roll and burst into flames, and often it
Speaker 4: does happen. And so there when I watched The Housewives,
Speaker 4: same thing. I don't want to just see a bunch
Speaker 4: of ladies get together and have mimosas and just giggle.
Speaker 4: You want to see the trama to see exactly if.
Speaker 4: Of course, you have to have conflict. Any good movie,
Speaker 4: any good book, any good story has conflict, and so
Speaker 4: every good television show, reality or otherwise has to have
Speaker 4: that conflict as well, and then you want the resolution.
Speaker 3: Did you get the sense from social media after your
Speaker 3: departure that people are enjoying your downfall, because as somebody
Speaker 3: who watched The Bachelor and watched you on it for
Speaker 3: so long, I found it heartbreaking, and because you know,
Speaker 3: you weren't part of the mix, you weren't a character.
Speaker 3: You were the host, and you were a loving host,
Speaker 3: and you were a respectful host and a fun to watch.
Speaker 3: But I'm wondering if you felt some of that, like
Speaker 3: your fall from Greece was.
Speaker 4: I would add much to this. I would say, much
Speaker 4: to the chagrin of probably just a few people, it
Speaker 4: was overwhelmingly positive, good from day one.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt publicly to this day. People come up
Speaker 4: to me and it's nothing but love and respect and
Speaker 4: admiration and this thing we all shared again. I was
Speaker 4: at Missoo this weekend and these college kids come in
Speaker 4: and they're like, hey, I grew up watching your show.
Speaker 4: My mom and I would watch your show and it
Speaker 4: meant a lot to me. And sadly, a lot of
Speaker 4: them say they don't watch anymore, and that's that's unfortunate
Speaker 4: that you know they.
Speaker 1: You feel like that's unfortunate. You don't like that just
Speaker 1: a little bit.
Speaker 4: Well, honestly, this is well, this is a weird thing,
Speaker 4: because yes, the ratings have plummeted, and there's, of course,
Speaker 4: there's probably a part of me that's like, okay, good,
Speaker 4: I'm glad the show is, you know, half of what
Speaker 4: it used to be when I was there. But there's
Speaker 4: this other side of me that doesn't want it to
Speaker 4: go away because it was something I built, and I
Speaker 4: was part of the construction process of this thing, and
Speaker 4: I built this franchise and was the face and voice
Speaker 4: of it for two decades. And you know, that's almost
Speaker 4: two generations of people growing up that have watched this show,
Speaker 4: and I know a lot of people that are still
Speaker 4: on that show. And when people talk about people being fired,
Speaker 4: we hear this a lot in sports, of like this
Speaker 4: guy should be fired, fire the coach, And I'm like, man,
Speaker 4: as someone who's gone through and I wasn't fired, But
Speaker 4: at the same time, someone who broke away from a
Speaker 4: job that he'd had for a long time. I'm just
Speaker 4: really reluctant to call for anybody's job, or to wish
Speaker 4: anybody to lose a job, because it affects so many people,
Speaker 4: you know, behind the scenes. Even if you wanted, like
Speaker 4: the executive one EP or whoever you're really mad at them. Well,
Speaker 4: the photographers, the camera guys. You guys have know you've
Speaker 4: been on set, the audio craft services. The ripple effect
Speaker 4: is huge and there's a lot of jobs on the line,
Speaker 4: so I don't wish them ill will in that way.
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about being an empty
Speaker 2: nester and how that's like I've been time and.
Speaker 1: I want to hear about that too. And Lauren. We
Speaker 1: want to hear about Lauren. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, the greatest thing that ever
Speaker 4: happened to me in my life. She has just been
Speaker 4: She's been a godsend, truly, and it is the most
Speaker 4: wonderful thing. And I tell people that are looking for
Speaker 4: love and you're out there and you're single, or you're like,
Speaker 4: oh my god, I've been looking forever. Hey, if you
Speaker 4: really break it down, and I had a wonderful marriage
Speaker 4: that had that created two beautiful kids. But at the
Speaker 4: same time, I don't know if I found the love
Speaker 4: of my life until I was fifty years old, if
Speaker 4: you think about it. So, you know, when I hear
Speaker 4: people that are in their twenties, thirties and forties like,
Speaker 4: you know, oh my god, gosh, oh my gosh, what
Speaker 4: was me, and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm just
Speaker 4: now really to this point in my life at fifty
Speaker 4: two years old, where I think I got this thing
Speaker 4: dialed in, so be patient.
Speaker 1: Amen. I love that.
Speaker 4: And I would just say as far as the empty
Speaker 4: nesting goes, and I hope my kids aren't listening, but
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, it's so wonderful what I said.
Speaker 5: Jackie Feels said, Hey, I'm in terror. I don't know
Speaker 5: what I myself. Amen, brother, Oh my god. And I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: I'm getting a little too excited.
Speaker 1: Heart. I love it. I love it as long as
Speaker 1: my kids are happy.
Speaker 3: You know, if one when one of your kids are
Speaker 3: not happy, then you're not happy. And it's but knowing
Speaker 3: that they're both good and enjoying their lives and then
Speaker 3: getting to wake up and not have to raise children.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm not sorry.
Speaker 1: It's a joy.
Speaker 4: There's a there's an old saying, and I didn't invent this,
Speaker 4: but it is very true that if you put in
Speaker 4: the work early on with children, you do less work
Speaker 4: later in life. I feel like I really in the
Speaker 4: work early on, and so did my ex wife, who
Speaker 4: by the way, is an amazing mother and still is
Speaker 4: and her husband. She got remarried. He is wonderful to
Speaker 4: my kids. Lauren has been an unbelievable addition to my kids' lives.
Speaker 4: But putting in that work early on allows you to
Speaker 4: enjoy this phase of life because they are now there's
Speaker 4: still kids. My daughter's twenty, my son's twenty two. They're
Speaker 4: wonderful human beings. And now I'm at the phase of
Speaker 4: I don't have to parent as much as kind of
Speaker 4: guide and give some advice. But it's at the phase
Speaker 4: of we're heading into graduation and he's looking at apartments
Speaker 4: and trying to get a job, and now it's giving
Speaker 4: him adult advice on life.
Speaker 1: And that's exactly where you are to that next phase. Yeah.
Speaker 4: We just spent spring break with my daughter and some
Speaker 4: of her sorority sisters, and it's just fun. It's a
Speaker 4: fun stage in life. And I loved every stage. When
Speaker 4: I was coaching Little League and going to piano recitals.
Speaker 4: I love that too. But I'm done with that.
Speaker 1: You know, like that too.
Speaker 4: That next the next time I do that, it'll be
Speaker 4: with my grandkids. Well, and let's hope.
Speaker 3: Let's not lead people on though, Chris, it's still ain't easy,
Speaker 3: at least for me. Maybe I still feel like, what
Speaker 3: do they say that a boy's brain isn't developed until
Speaker 3: he's twenty six, a girl maybe twenty four, and I'd
Speaker 3: say fifty two fifty for men, right, I mean there's
Speaker 3: still it still comes with challenges, but there is oh,
Speaker 3: of course, a freedom you know that I haven't had
Speaker 3: since I gave birth at age thirty one.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's another identity thing. I think I
Speaker 2: have to work on not making mother my whole identity either.
Speaker 4: Well, and you do, and Lauren and I talk about that, Jackie,
Speaker 4: and it's something I think it's one of the leading
Speaker 4: causes of divorces in this country. And you have to
Speaker 4: be very careful because oftentimes, and oftentimes it is the
Speaker 4: woman who has stayed at home and has defined herself
Speaker 4: of being an amazing mom, room mother, running the pta,
Speaker 4: you know, you name it, just being involved. Well, when
Speaker 4: that stops, and it doesn't stop in college, it usually
Speaker 4: stops earlier. When they get to high school, they just
Speaker 4: need you less, and then they are driving and they
Speaker 4: need you even less than that, and it's hard to oh,
Speaker 4: my gosh, after fifteen years, I have defined myself by
Speaker 4: being this pillar and now, now what what do I do?
Speaker 4: And that often causes a lot of strife and contention
Speaker 4: in a relationship. You have to be very cognizant of
Speaker 4: that of kind of re entry and helping each other
Speaker 4: get back over that hurdle.
Speaker 3: All of this goes back to what we're talking about
Speaker 3: in the sense that when you lose the Housewives or
Speaker 3: you know, certainly a way bigger scenario, you were the
Speaker 3: host of the Bachelor for nineteen years and that ends,
Speaker 3: you stop being a stay at home mom. All of
Speaker 3: this is about I guess identity and so trying to
Speaker 3: find out who you are before any of this ends,
Speaker 3: and being enough before that you got it and after
Speaker 3: it goes away.
Speaker 1: I think that's there's a check.
Speaker 4: There's a little piece of lead. I'm looking at it
Speaker 4: right now. It's on my desk behind me, and it
Speaker 4: sits there and it has for many years. My mom
Speaker 4: gave it to me. Is what would you attempt to
Speaker 4: do if you knew you could not fail? And the
Speaker 4: whole point of that is I've never been afraid to fail.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if this comes from my sports background.
Speaker 4: I played sports my whole life and in college, but
Speaker 4: putting yourself out there on that tightrope and not being
Speaker 4: afraid to fall. Some people will keep themselves from ever
Speaker 4: doing anything in life because the what if, what if
Speaker 4: this happens? What if I fail? What if I make
Speaker 4: an ass of myself and I get embarrassed. I have
Speaker 4: never lived like that. I'm a big optimist. And so
Speaker 4: as soon as the backsher went away, Yes, I had
Speaker 4: to lick my wounds and I got kicked in the gut,
Speaker 4: and it got toxic, and it was crazy, and it
Speaker 4: was very public, and I had to wait for the
Speaker 4: turmoil to calm down. But almost immediately my theory and
Speaker 4: my thought was what's next. This is just now an
Speaker 4: opportunity to show everybody what's next. And by the way,
Speaker 4: Merritt Street has the potential to be a disaster. It
Speaker 4: could go up in flames. It is a startup. At
Speaker 4: the end of the day, it is a wonderful startup
Speaker 4: with a lot of money and some unbelievably big names.
Speaker 4: Steve Harvey was just added to the roster. He announced
Speaker 4: that Nancy Grace, doctor Phil myself, Lauren Zima. So there
Speaker 4: is some serious ass talent coming to this network. So
Speaker 4: it probably won't but it's a startup, and trying to
Speaker 4: start up a network in this day and age is
Speaker 4: very hard. So I'm putting myself out there in something
Speaker 4: that I could fail at. You can't sit there and go,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, what if something I create isn't as
Speaker 4: big as The Bachelor was? I can tell you it
Speaker 4: won't be. I probably will never do another show that
Speaker 4: has thirty three million viewers watching it, and by the way,
Speaker 4: either will The Bachelor ever again. I don't know if
Speaker 4: anything will ever exist, but having a home run like
Speaker 4: that is probably once in a lifetime. But it won't
Speaker 4: stop me from trying to do that again. And I
Speaker 4: think that is the difference of you got to just
Speaker 4: you can't care so much about what everyone else is
Speaker 4: going to say because I know people are going to
Speaker 4: pan it. I know people will rip me on social media.
Speaker 4: Who care? So I'm not doing it for you. Just
Speaker 4: put yourself out there and get going again. I'm just
Speaker 4: excited to do it.
Speaker 3: On speed Dial, I was going to be therapist Jackie.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, Chris, you got to talk
Speaker 3: to more housewives. Yeah, you've got it like this, you
Speaker 3: are going to be the housewife whisper because I love
Speaker 3: that thing on your deak me too.
Speaker 1: I love that me too.
Speaker 3: But you know, just the idea that it's okay and
Speaker 3: and something else will come, and it may not be people.
Speaker 3: Not everybody is craving fame and fortune, right so but
Speaker 3: for you know, those that are not that are just
Speaker 3: worried about the kids leaving and a new identity that way,
Speaker 3: But how to feel good about that, How to not
Speaker 3: define yourself by what's happened in your past.
Speaker 1: So when can we watch you? When is it going
Speaker 1: to be up and running?
Speaker 4: April second, the network starts, So we're going up to
Speaker 4: Dallas Fort Worth, which is where the studio is. It's
Speaker 4: this amazing five acre facility. And by the way, if
Speaker 4: you're in the DFW area, Doctor Phil his uh live audience,
Speaker 4: he's taking his prime So he's taken his show and
Speaker 4: he's going to take it to Primetime. So Doctor Phil
Speaker 4: Primetime is kind of his old show but kind of
Speaker 4: on steroids. And he built this beautiful studio for himself.
Speaker 4: But within that there's a newsroom we're doing morning news,
Speaker 4: evening news, and a newsroom like I've never seen before.
Speaker 4: There's three or four other sound stages. We're gonna shoot
Speaker 4: movies and commercials there that can be rented out, and
Speaker 4: then there's like three or four other just studios, like
Speaker 4: one will be used for our talk show. And so
Speaker 4: this facility is unlike anything I've ever seen. And they
Speaker 4: have live studio audience. You can go check out Doctor Phil.
Speaker 4: So starting April second, he'll be doing his show live
Speaker 4: at Primetime. I will be on some of those shows,
Speaker 4: and then eventually we'll get the daily morning show going
Speaker 4: and then also the talk show. But we got to
Speaker 4: you know, we have to cast the show. We have
Speaker 4: to staff those things up and get it going. That's
Speaker 4: going to take a minute. And the great thing with
Speaker 4: Doctor Phil is this network and this is where to
Speaker 4: go back to our original conversation. It's so different than
Speaker 4: streamers or network TV. It's like, Okay, we have to
Speaker 4: get institutional money, we have to get advertising. We will
Speaker 4: get advertising, but we can kind of get our own
Speaker 4: like we can go out and just cut our own deals.
Speaker 4: It's really bizarre where he's kind of cut this thing
Speaker 4: back to the original way TV is done. Of like
Speaker 4: we'll go straight to a company and say, hey, you
Speaker 4: want to be a part of our show. Come sponsor
Speaker 4: our show. We are not owned by bigger conglomerates, so
Speaker 4: we are not controlled by a ABC Disney. We're not
Speaker 4: controlled and so number one, we don't have to speak
Speaker 4: how they want us to speak. We can cover whatever
Speaker 4: we want. Doctor Phil can do whatever he wants, so
Speaker 4: we don't have to go into the principal's office later
Speaker 4: and say, oh, you don't want me to cover this story.
Speaker 4: It's too controversial. Oh, your advertisers may not like this,
Speaker 4: So we won't mention this. And we're not going to preach.
Speaker 4: We're not going to tell you what we feel. We're
Speaker 4: going to just tell you the facts. And Doctor Phil
Speaker 4: is amazing at that.
Speaker 3: I love that so much. Can you get us tickets
Speaker 3: or no, you hook us up?
Speaker 4: Absolutely? Oh we've been so, I've been to a dozen
Speaker 4: shows and I've been on. I've already taped three or
Speaker 4: four of his shows and then we go up and
Speaker 4: depending on the subject matter, I'll get involved. And he's
Speaker 4: doing some amazing shows and it really runs the gamut
Speaker 4: and I've I've loved it. It's you know, he is
Speaker 4: someone I've admired for so many years, and I didn't
Speaker 4: realize obviously he was on Oprah before, but The Bachelor
Speaker 4: and Doctor Phil started the same year really two thousand
Speaker 4: and one, two thousand and two, and so to be
Speaker 4: hosting with him, and we're on stage a lot together.
Speaker 4: It's like this awesome masterclass of like being on with
Speaker 4: someone who is so damn good at what they do.
Speaker 4: And you know, not to pat myself on the back,
Speaker 4: but I'm really good at what I do, Creed, and
Speaker 4: so we kind of we really compliment each other and
Speaker 4: it's kind of that game recognizes game. So I really
Speaker 4: have a blast.
Speaker 2: Well I can see when you're talking about this you
Speaker 2: are like just lit up, animated SI.
Speaker 1: So I'm so.
Speaker 2: I'm really happy for you and wishing you and Lauren
Speaker 2: and doctor Phil all the success in the world.
Speaker 1: We can't wait to watch you.
Speaker 3: Yes, you guys, our listeners, keep the faith. Man, look
Speaker 3: at this and you know there's life after life, right,
Speaker 3: there's just made out of it.
Speaker 1: Yes everything. Yeah, oh cool.
Speaker 4: Nothing's too big, nothing's too big that we can't overcome it.
Speaker 1: Amazing man, you're my new therapist. Well, we loved having
Speaker 1: you on.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so grateful. Well, congratulations to the
Speaker 4: two of you. Speaking of launching something that's been amazingly successful.
Speaker 4: Very proud of you. I'm happy to be even a
Speaker 4: small part of this endeavor that you two have started,
Speaker 4: and love you too and wish you the very best.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, appreciate it. He was amazing, very inspiring.
Speaker 1: Agreed. I really he could be my therapist.
Speaker 3: I hope that listeners, you guys, can take away from
Speaker 3: some of this because it's such a bigger there's such
Speaker 3: a bigger picture, and it's not just about like what
Speaker 3: do you do when you're not a housewife anymore? Or
Speaker 3: what do you do when you're not like you lose
Speaker 3: a job you've had your whole life.
Speaker 2: Even like a friend, like anything that ends, you have
Speaker 2: to be able to separate who you truly are from
Speaker 2: that one part.
Speaker 1: Of your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard. He seems to have like mastered that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. He's just he's amazing, and you're amazing,
Speaker 1: and you're amazing. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2: Okay, guys, I love this episode, me too, And until
Speaker 2: next time you to Jersey Jays leave a review. We
Speaker 2: love you, guys, love us back, and we will see
Speaker 2: you next time.
Speaker 1: Jay's out