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Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by P and C Bank.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people think podcasts about work are boring,

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Speaker 1: and sure they definitely can be, but understanding of professionals

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Speaker 1: routine shows us how they achieve their success little by little,

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Speaker 1: day after day. It's like banking with P and C Bank.

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Speaker 1: decisions with your bank, but keeping your money boring is

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Speaker 1: what helps you live a more happily fulfilled life. P

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Speaker 1: and C Bank Brilliantly Boring since eighteen sixty five. Brilliantly

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Speaker 1: the PNC Financial Service Group, Inc. P and C Bank

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Speaker 1: National Association Member FDIC.

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Speaker 2: For today's story is teachable moment. Yeah, it's actually a

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Speaker 2: little different for us. It's pretty sad. Most of the

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Speaker 2: story times are like upbeat, but this is a story

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Speaker 2: and it's definitely a teachable moment. It's a story to

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Speaker 2: learn from, but it's not really the most.

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Speaker 1: I think most of our stories, there's always like a

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Speaker 1: triumph and it's like, oh wow, I can't believe they

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Speaker 1: came from those odds to do this, or they use

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Speaker 1: their intelligence, their network to do that, and this one's

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Speaker 1: a little different.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's still a story that needs to.

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Speaker 1: Be to absolutely learn from the mistakes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So Wallace Wally Amos Junior. You know, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: So most people, if you heard of the cookies famous Amos,

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Speaker 2: that's that's him, probably know him for that. Yeah, they

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Speaker 2: probably know him for that. But I didn't actually know.

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Speaker 2: I was doing some research, so I know he did that.

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Speaker 2: But what I didn't know was that in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 2: two he became the first black talent agent with William

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Speaker 2: Morris agent yep. And he had Diana Ross and the Supremes,

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Speaker 2: Marvin Gay, Sam Cook.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and he had Simon and Golfing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. That was a old town.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pretty extremely big think about, like Diana Ross,

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Speaker 2: Marvin Gay and Sam Cook.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy if I like, who does that? Who

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Speaker 1: finds that type of talent?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So, but he's he was raised in Tallahassee, Florida. Shout

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Speaker 2: out to Tallahassee, tally Ho's what they call it, fam

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Speaker 2: you Tallahassee Community College, Florida State University. Yep, it's a

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Speaker 2: college town. Shout out to Tallahassee. So he's from Tallahassee.

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Speaker 2: He's born in nineteen thirty six, so that was like

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Speaker 2: what he's still living, still living, man, still living, still

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Speaker 2: going shout him. You know, come from a no Southern

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Speaker 2: background and his aunt apparently.

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Speaker 3: Made homemade cookies ant della. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was famous in the neighborhood and everybody loved it.

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Speaker 2: You know, just a traditional type of just in the

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Speaker 2: in the kitchen, just making.

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Speaker 1: Cookies, making chocolate chip cookies.

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Speaker 3: So that never really left.

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Speaker 2: Him, even though he went to you know, pursue a

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Speaker 2: career in you know, managing artists and things of that nature,

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Speaker 2: and eventually went to Hollywood, but he always had his

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Speaker 2: down South roots of cookie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That actually was what he would give to some of

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Speaker 1: his artists. He would present them with cookies like so

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Speaker 1: like and the arts of coming and he had like

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Speaker 1: a snack before there was riders and you had to

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Speaker 1: have all those things, like, he would bring the cookies

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Speaker 1: to them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he actually went to culinary school also before

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Speaker 2: before he became a talent agent. He went to culinary school.

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Speaker 1: Was no joke.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, So so, like you said, he used to

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Speaker 2: gift his clients cookies and that kind of branched off

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Speaker 2: to people saying like he should probably start his own company.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and those same clients who you know that he

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Speaker 1: brought the talent from, they became people that like, listen,

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Speaker 1: we loved it what you got, we love the product.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna help you, We're gonna become investors.

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Speaker 3: Investors, man, that's important.

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Speaker 2: That's a fact because it started because yeah, he was

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Speaker 2: doing William Morris. He tried to branch off and through

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Speaker 2: his own thing with that, and that didn't really work out.

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Speaker 2: So the relationships that he established, they said that they

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Speaker 2: would bankroll them. So it cost twenty five thousand dollars,

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Speaker 2: which was a lot of money in nineteen seventy five. Now, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying. Nineteen seventy five, that's like

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Speaker 2: a couple hundred thousand, and that's where he started his

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Speaker 2: company with.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think Marvin Gaye was the first guy to say, like,

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Speaker 1: IM gonna help this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he started his company with what you called famous

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Speaker 2: amos and uh first year and Bitter said three hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So that's crazy. I read that. I said the way

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Speaker 1: that three hundred and seventy five. Yeah, he's multa.

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Speaker 3: No, he was, he was. He was good.

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Speaker 2: So he hit he hit, He hit it out the

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Speaker 2: park right away, and by nineteen eighty two he did

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Speaker 2: twelve million dollars in revenue.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So after the first story, he started franchising. He

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Speaker 1: was on Sunset Boulevard and Cali Man was doing it big.

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Speaker 1: But he started franchising the stores out and generated some

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Speaker 1: more income.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So he really became a big name, a household name.

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Speaker 2: He you know, he's in the Smithsonian Institute. Yeah, he

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Speaker 2: has his hat and his shirt.

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Speaker 1: I saw his commercials.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 1: He said, like, he got so good at selling cookies

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Speaker 1: because he used to have to pitch talent to record label.

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Speaker 2: And he had the relationships and it was a good

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Speaker 2: product too. Famous Amos Cookies was legit.

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Speaker 1: They still legit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what I'm saying they changed the rescue BASTI. So,

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Speaker 2: so in nineteen eighty two, he's twelve million dollars. So,

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Speaker 2: like I said, twelve million dollars in the early eighties,

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Speaker 2: probably thequivalent of forty million.

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Speaker 3: Now, like a lot.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of money, right, So he became a

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Speaker 2: household name, and he starts to you know, buy property

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Speaker 2: and he's living a high life, right, So in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty five that's when things start to kind of fall

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Speaker 2: in story changes. So he still did pretty decent that year,

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Speaker 2: but they made ten million instead of twelve million. So

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Speaker 2: now he's you know, it's a loss, like first year

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Speaker 2: when he's starting to like go backwards. He was going

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Speaker 2: up and then now he's starting to like go down

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Speaker 2: a little bit, right, So he makes some changes, He

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Speaker 2: fires some managers and put some other people in positions.

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Speaker 2: So he said admittedly, like he was never he didn't

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Speaker 2: really understand how to run business. He's a talent agent

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Speaker 2: and he's a cook.

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Speaker 1: To his own credit, admitted, I don't know how to

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Speaker 1: run a business.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't have any mentorship and even in his

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Speaker 2: people that he's around, an artist and things that nature,

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Speaker 2: he didn't really know what was going on.

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Speaker 3: So it's all good, make twelve million.

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to run a business.

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Speaker 2: That's astonishing, Yeah, yeah, it was. And it's it's crazy

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Speaker 2: too because remember we interviewed Ryan Leslie and he said that,

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Speaker 2: you know, scaling can be like detrimental to you, like

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Speaker 2: if you're not properly prepared and you're growing too fast,

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Speaker 2: that can actually hurt. He's actually better to have a

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Speaker 2: smaller audience or to grow the slower pace, but to

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Speaker 2: be able to manage it, because like when you can't

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Speaker 2: manage your scale, now you're really screwed.

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Speaker 1: That's his whole blueprint too, That was that's Ryan Lesli's

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Speaker 1: blueprint that even with the smartphone, was like smaller audience.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what you said like before, like less

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Speaker 2: it's less is more sometimes, so now it starts to

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Speaker 2: like just fall apart. He's on vacation and he finds

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Speaker 2: out that he has a house in Hawaii. Shouts to

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Speaker 2: all the good.

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Speaker 1: People he lives there now.

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Speaker 2: Alohallow, does he still live there now? Yeah, everybody knows

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Speaker 2: I used to live in Hawaii. Tell the whole vibe

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Speaker 2: out there. So he finds out that his house is

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Speaker 2: actually being auctioned off.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like that's crazy.

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Speaker 2: That's the crazy news to just wake up to, Like, oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, they auctioned your house three pm? Like

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Speaker 2: what he didn't even know his house was in foreclosure.

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Speaker 2: Like when this happens, we're making light of it, but

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Speaker 2: it's just crazy. So it's like but once again that

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Speaker 2: just goes to show you, like especially like a lot

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Speaker 2: of celebrities, and you know, like even with the Fat

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Speaker 2: Joe situation, people know, like he went to jail for

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Speaker 2: tax evasion. He was telling his story. It was like

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Speaker 2: he had his accountant that was paying all his bills

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Speaker 2: for him, and you know, he's being a rapper and

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Speaker 2: he felt like, you know, he's not really paying Jim

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Speaker 2: Jones like, yeah, Kevin gart bunch of So what happens

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Speaker 2: with Fat Joe is that the accountant apparently started like embezzling,

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Speaker 2: stealing money, not paying his taxes, not paying his bills.

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Speaker 2: He found out because he's like he always had excellent credit.

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Speaker 2: He tried to get a car and it was like

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Speaker 2: his credit was like four fifty and he's like what

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Speaker 2: And then he realized that all of his bills haven't

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Speaker 2: been paid for months, and and also along with bills,

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Speaker 2: they had his account never paid his taxes. He had

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Speaker 2: to do like six months in federal jail. So I say,

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Speaker 2: I have to say, this is something that's unfortunate. It's

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Speaker 2: been going on for a long period of time when

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Speaker 2: people like put trust in other people to take care

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Speaker 2: of their finances and they don't know what's going on

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Speaker 2: with their own money and by the time they realize.

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Speaker 3: It, it's too late.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we see it having too much man, way too much.

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Speaker 2: So so yeah, so so that was just like when

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Speaker 2: he realized like, okay, things is really starting to go

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Speaker 2: down crazy. So now he's scrambling and he brings outside

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Speaker 2: investors in to help out with this company because now

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Speaker 2: he's starting to lose money company. Yeah, so he took

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Speaker 2: I think like three million dollars of investors' money, but

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Speaker 2: that didn't really work out but those alone, so now

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Speaker 2: he has to pay that back. But then they left

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Speaker 2: and the company's losing even more money. So now it's

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Speaker 2: it's like spiraling out of control at a very rapid pace.

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Speaker 1: And what are you going to do when that havings?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so in nineteen eighty eight, he sells the company

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Speaker 2: to three million dollars. He sells it for three million dollars.

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Speaker 2: He sells the company in nineteen eighty eight to the

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Speaker 2: Shansby Group. I think I'm pronouncing that correctly for three

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Speaker 2: million dollars. So the crazy thing about it is that

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Speaker 2: now he sells the company for three million and they

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Speaker 2: keep them on as a brand ambassador. So he makes

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Speaker 2: it deal with them, and he's not allowed to use

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Speaker 2: his name anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because part of the cell is the trademark.

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Speaker 2: Yep, so famous and amos he can't his name is

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Speaker 2: he can't use his name, can't use it? So but

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Speaker 2: he can. So it's crazy. So he built the company

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Speaker 2: from scratch, from nothing, right, built it to a multimillion

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Speaker 2: dollar corporation, sells it for way less than what it

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Speaker 2: was value for just a few years earlier.

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Speaker 1: He was hurting.

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Speaker 2: Not only do they tell him that you can't use

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Speaker 2: your name, but they keep they give him a job

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Speaker 2: to be the spokesperson for the company of the name

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Speaker 2: that he can't use. Yeah, he's doing that, which it

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Speaker 2: has to be extremely like think about that, like think

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Speaker 2: about like you start a company named Troy's Sneakers, right,

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Speaker 2: you love sneakers, and you build it to a multi

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Speaker 2: million dollar company, and ten years down the line, you

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Speaker 2: got to sell it and they're saying you can't use Troy,

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Speaker 2: you can't use sneakers anymore, but we want to pay

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Speaker 2: you a salary to go around the country promoting Troy Sneakers.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean he found out about it when he tried

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Speaker 1: to start a new cookie company.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna get to that after a while it was like,

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Speaker 2: it's not after you ates, I can't do this, and

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Speaker 2: he leaves and he's like he tries to start a

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Speaker 2: new company, and they.

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Speaker 1: Soon they're like, now you can't use that name for yeah,

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Speaker 1: we don't know, infringement part off.

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Speaker 3: So then he starts the company called Uncle No Name.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uncle names may yeah, which.

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Speaker 2: Is a play on that he has no name. Now

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Speaker 2: it's really unfortunately, it's really really tragic, tragic. It's really

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Speaker 2: tragic situation all the way around.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: That so yeah, so Uncle no Name he starts that brand.

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Speaker 2: But so the crazy thing about it is that as

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Speaker 2: he's doing the Uncle No Name, the company gets sold.

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Speaker 1: This is the worst part again, Yeah, it's the worst part.

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Speaker 1: So this is the worst part of the story.

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Speaker 2: So now because he even said like he had depression

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Speaker 2: for a little bit, he stopped baking at all, like

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Speaker 2: three years because Uncle Noman didn't work out.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, I think they started making muffins. He went

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Speaker 1: away from.

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Speaker 2: Cookies, so he stopped baking. He cut his beard off.

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Speaker 2: His whole thing with trademark was his beard in the hat.

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Speaker 2: He stopped wearing a hat, cut his beard off. He

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Speaker 2: did even want people to recognize him in the street.

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Speaker 2: It's like, I don't want people. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: it's sold. I don't want them like this depressing, you

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Speaker 2: know what I'm saying. So but as all of that's

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Speaker 2: going on, Shansby the company that he sold to for

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Speaker 2: three million in nineteen ninety two, they sold.

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Speaker 3: It a company four we might have heard of. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: sixty one million.

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Speaker 1: Yeah to Kellig, big, big breakfast company.

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Speaker 3: Man.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, they sell it, he sells it. They sell

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Speaker 2: it for sixty one million in nineteen ninety two, and

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Speaker 2: then it gets sold again in nineteen ninety eight to.

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Speaker 3: Keepler Crazy that's what the elf ye keeper cookies? Aye? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So then so then they so. Then in nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 2: Keebler decides to bring him back as a brand ambassador.

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Speaker 3: It done got.

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Speaker 1: Flipped fives ready, they kind of flip over comes, you

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Speaker 1: know what they did. You know he said when he

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Speaker 1: came back and hurt his heart. I mean he had

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Speaker 1: he tried the cookies, but they changed his recipe and all.

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Speaker 1: Now they changed the rest respect like that. Everything.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, they let so.

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Speaker 2: But but at least he was able to work a

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Speaker 2: deal out where he made a deal with Keebler for

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Speaker 2: Uncle Wally's muffins. Yeah, so they let him have a

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Speaker 2: I guess like a subsidiary company within the company. That

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Speaker 2: way thinks of that nature. And now he gives some speeches.

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Speaker 2: He's still a lot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's still a lot. He's still I think he

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Speaker 1: lives in where he was living in Hawaii, and now

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Speaker 1: I think he's back in South Carolina. He's back south,

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Speaker 1: but he's still making cookies. He's still making cookies. I

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Speaker 1: think the original idea came from his aunt Deela, and

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Speaker 1: so that's what he's going back to. His new company

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Speaker 1: is at Della's Cookies because he can't use famous amis.

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Speaker 2: So I mean moral of his story. There's so many

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Speaker 2: different morals of his story points and learning points. It's

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Speaker 2: just like where do you begin? But I think the

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Speaker 2: first one is business. Everything is a business. Like a

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Speaker 2: lot of time people look at it like I'm a

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Speaker 2: good chef. Well I'm a recording artist. How many times

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Speaker 2: is like that's not good enough. You gotta be able

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Speaker 2: to understand that no matter what you're doing, is a

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Speaker 2: business behind it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, just think about it. If he had

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Speaker 1: licensed his name instead of selling it in that deal.

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Speaker 1: He could have done that, you know what I mean,

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Speaker 1: Like his fortune, his fortune would have been a lot different, right,

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Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like you, he's done now

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Speaker 1: he can't use his own name.

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Speaker 3: Nah, you can't.

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Speaker 2: And it's like mismanagement is a lot of and it's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people say a lot of time like

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Speaker 2: ignorant and bliss. It's really not. It's extremely dangerous, especially

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Speaker 2: when it comes to business. And like we did an

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Speaker 2: episode on trademarks and licensing and and the legal side

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Speaker 2: of it is extremely important as well, right, Like the

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Speaker 2: people understand that, Like you got to understand the legal

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Speaker 2: start or have a lawyer at least to help you.

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Speaker 2: And it's important to people get taken advantage off.

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Speaker 1: You think he would have. I mean if he sold

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Speaker 1: it for three million, right, Like what did he get

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Speaker 1: the proper valuation even know what evaluation was at that.

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Speaker 2: Point, or he probably just needed the money, just need

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Speaker 2: some money. I'm gonna sell it like you saw it

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Speaker 2: three million. Then ten years later they get sold for

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Speaker 2: sixty one million and you can't even use your name.

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Speaker 1: Nah, man, it's crazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like I said, man, it's a tragic, sad

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Speaker 2: learning experience. Nonetheless, it's still a learning experience, and I

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Speaker 2: think entrepreneurs, business people, inspiring entrepreneurs, inspiring business people can

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Speaker 2: learn from You gotta learn from other people's mistakes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and he still has his health at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, he's still alive and breathing

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Speaker 1: to tell the lesson. So I mean, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, somebody gonna learn from his mistakes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean. That's the worst thing in the world.

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Speaker 2: Where somebody take your name, you can't use it, like that's.

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Speaker 1: Like, yeah, I mean, like you said, it broke his heart.

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Speaker 1: He takes the cookies, He's like, yeah, they change the recipe,

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Speaker 1: nothing is the same, but his name lives on. Like

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Speaker 1: that's those are like we talked about the Vendom Machine episode,

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Speaker 1: Like those are still in vending machines right now today.

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Speaker 1: Somebody's eating famous same as cookies. Earners up. You ever

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Speaker 1: walk into a small business and everything just works, like

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Speaker 1: the checkout is fast, or seats are digital, tipping is

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Speaker 1: a breeze, and you're out the door before the line

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Speaker 1: even builds. Odds are they're using Square. We love supporting

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Speaker 1: businesses that run on Square because it just feels seamless.

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Speaker 1: Whether it's a local coffee shop, a vendor at.

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Speaker 4: A pop up market, or even one of our merch partners,

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Speaker 4: Square makes it easy for them to take payments, manage inventory,

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Speaker 4: and run their business with confidence, all from one simple system.

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Speaker 1: One of the things we love most is seeing neighborhood

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Speaker 1: businesses level up. Business West Indian spired writing our community

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Speaker 1: that started with a small takeout counter. Now with Square

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Speaker 1: they've been able to expand into a full sit down

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Speaker 1: restaurant and even started catering events across the city. That's

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Speaker 1: the kind of growth that inspires us, and it's powered

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Speaker 1: by Square. Square is built for all types of businesses,

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Speaker 1: from the corner bagel shop that turned into a local chain,

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Speaker 1: to the specialty market with thousands of unique items, to

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Speaker 1: the stylist who's been holding you down for years. If

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00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,719
Speaker 1: you're a business owner or even just thinking about launching

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00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: something soon, Square is hands down one of the best

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Speaker 1: tools out there to help you start, run and grow.

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Speaker 1: It's not just about payments, it's about giving you time

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Speaker 1: back so you can focus on what matters most ready.

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Speaker 1: To see how Square can transform your business, visit Square

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Speaker 1: dot com, Backslash Go, Backslash eyl to learn more that

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Speaker 1: Square dot com backslash, go backslash EYL. Don't wait, don't hesitate.

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Speaker 1: Let's Square handle the back end so you can keep

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Speaker 1: pushing your vision forward