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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: This is Hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on today's podcast, we will talk with Brett Burke,

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Speaker 1: a longtime career automotive writer who's one of our favorites.

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Speaker 1: He basically, anything you've ever written about cars, he's written

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Speaker 1: for that publication.

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Speaker 2: Would he say, yeah, Yeah, He's written for not just

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Speaker 2: Car and Driver and The Rob Report, but also Vanity Fair,

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Speaker 2: The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, AARP. And

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Speaker 2: he's you know what, I don't. I'm not a reader

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Speaker 2: who sees bylines, which is odd I know as a journalist.

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Speaker 2: But when I do see Brett Burke as the byeline,

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Speaker 2: then I pay particular attention because I feel like his

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Speaker 2: Even though he writes about cars and he's a car

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Speaker 2: guy for sure, his writing kind of transcends just the automotive. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he makes even without saying it directly, some social

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Speaker 2: commentary or sometimes he just says it directly.

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Speaker 1: Brett, it can be delightfully caddy, which is great because

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Speaker 1: I read that as honesty, and he is. He will

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Speaker 1: say what he thinks, which I love. I find it

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Speaker 1: so refreshing. It also helps that he's got great taste.

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Speaker 1: He loves to have a good time. He's so nice

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Speaker 1: and fun to be around. And you know, I get

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Speaker 1: so tired of being around people who are always on

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Speaker 1: their phones or like slightly unable to have any sort

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Speaker 1: of casual, nice social interaction because they've never had to.

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Speaker 1: And Brett is not on social media and is just

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Speaker 1: the most delightful human to be around in real life.

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Speaker 2: Let's get into it, because we did spend an hour

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Speaker 2: talking to Britain at Burke and now you can too,

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Speaker 2: discussing everything from the direction of Jaguar to what color

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Speaker 2: your Lamborghini should be. Here's Brett Burke, dude. I'm so

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Speaker 2: glad we could get you on.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: You know it's cool because I was excited to meet

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Speaker 2: you at this Aston Martin event. I can't remember what

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Speaker 2: we were there for. I think it might have been

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Speaker 2: to talk to Laurence Stroll or to see the new Vanquish,

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Speaker 2: or maybe you were there for both things. And that

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Speaker 2: was in there, that was in their queue, like their

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Speaker 2: customization center, right, and you just wrote a piece, I

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Speaker 2: think for a car and Driver about these incredibly expensive

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Speaker 2: elite exclusive like customization like one offs. And I think

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Speaker 2: you also just wrote a piece on Lebron also, right,

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Speaker 2: and he has like a special my box that's a

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Speaker 2: one off. Correct, So you focus pretty heavily on this

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Speaker 2: really custom work.

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Speaker 3: I do, definitely, I've covered this a lot. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's a huge trend in the industry, especially at the

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Speaker 3: ultra high luxury level currently. Actually, before we got on,

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Speaker 3: was starting writing a story for The New York Times

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Speaker 3: about Rolls Royce and its plans in that in that arena.

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Speaker 3: So yes, this is a this is an extremely core

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Speaker 3: mission of ultra luxury automakers. They're not, you know, envisioning

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Speaker 3: enormous growth in the number of ultra high net worth individuals,

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Speaker 3: some growth, but not not enormous growth. And so in

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Speaker 3: order to capitalize on their existing clients or as I

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Speaker 3: like to say, help separate their existing clients from their money,

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Speaker 3: they are focusing in on extreme customization and really pushing that.

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Speaker 3: And that can go anywhere from you know, just selecting

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Speaker 3: and custom piping on your seats or you know, embroidery

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Speaker 3: on your headrests two in Rolls Royce's case, you know,

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Speaker 3: commissioning one or few off vehicles. Also you know, we've

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Speaker 3: seen that on the Car and Driver article that you

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Speaker 3: mentioned was about Bugatti opening a sub office to handle

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Speaker 3: this exact same thing one officer, very few offs, and

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Speaker 3: Lamborghini has been doing it for quite some time, as

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Speaker 3: Ferrari and Acid Martin and these are major profit centers

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Speaker 3: for these companies, according to your own analyst, Michael Deenah

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to a few times for some of these stories.

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Speaker 3: You know, the profits on these kinds of customization options

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Speaker 3: can be as high as fifty percent or higher. And

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Speaker 3: so you know, Rolls Royce is currently in the process,

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Speaker 3: this is what this story I'm working on now is about,

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Speaker 3: currently in the process of almost doubling the size of

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Speaker 3: its production facility in Goodwood, but it has no plan

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Speaker 3: to really increase the annual production of vehicles. The focus

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Speaker 3: of this expansion is really on the customization this spoke area,

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Speaker 3: so you know, all these different options that it can

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Speaker 3: now present to clients. And on top of that, we

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Speaker 3: see these automakers opening up sort of brand centers for

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Speaker 3: their best clients in various cities around the world. You

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Speaker 3: mentioned Aston Martins Q shop in Midtown Manhattan, which is

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Speaker 3: right up the street from Ferraris, which is there too.

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Speaker 3: You know, Rolls Rice has one downtown, as does Lamborghini.

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Speaker 3: And then a story I did several years ago. You know,

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Speaker 3: I asked Lamborghini when they were first opening this spot,

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Speaker 3: what was the goal and they said, essentially, the goal

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Speaker 3: was to increase customization on the models that are worked

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Speaker 3: on there by fifty percent. That was a very long

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Speaker 3: winded answer.

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Speaker 1: It was a great answer. And I'm so curious to

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Speaker 1: ask you about what you think this says about the

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Speaker 1: current culture we're in. You know, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I love about you is you are very insuscient,

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Speaker 1: and you have great taste, and you're not afraid to

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Speaker 1: say it and point out what you like and what

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Speaker 1: you don't like. And you know, I think i'd be

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Speaker 1: curious to know your thoughts about with all of this

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Speaker 1: extreme customization and bespoke stuff, what does this say about

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Speaker 1: car buyers today? And do we love it? Do we

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Speaker 1: hate it? Does it matter?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? I have a few thoughts about that, as you

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Speaker 3: might imagine.

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Speaker 1: I thought you might.

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Speaker 3: So. First of all, this is not a trend that

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Speaker 3: exists only in the automotive realm, right, we see this

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Speaker 3: in obviously we've seen this for a long time in

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Speaker 3: fashion with mature right, we've seen it. We've seen it

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Speaker 3: in an arology right with limited very limited releases. Some watchmakers,

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Speaker 3: you know, actually buying back old stock or you know,

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Speaker 3: getting getting rid of lesser lines in order to focus

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Speaker 3: solely on the most sort of the highest end, you know,

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Speaker 3: most customized things. Uh. We see it and find jewelry obviously,

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Speaker 3: and so this is you know, this is uh, this

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Speaker 3: is this is a sort of a universal amongst ultra luxury,

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Speaker 3: in amongst categories and ultra luxury. So that's that's sort

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Speaker 3: of setting the stage for it. Second, Uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: there's more billionaires uh than there have ever been before. Uh.

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Speaker 3: Whether that is a good thing for the world is

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Speaker 3: debatable in my opinion. Uh, it's not because the concentration

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Speaker 3: of wealth amongst the few has has never never led

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Speaker 3: to particularly positive results for the rest of humanity, as

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Speaker 3: we can see, uh with what's going on in this

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Speaker 3: country currently on many levels. Uh, should being a billionaire

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Speaker 3: be legal? Uh that's another debate. But you know, I know,

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Speaker 3: I know that.

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Speaker 2: You're getting a little ahead of your skis here. By

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Speaker 2: the way, I had to look up insuscient casually or

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Speaker 2: smugly and different, and this is why we.

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Speaker 1: Love Brett burlemen.

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Speaker 3: Yes, so you know, so there there's that question, right,

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Speaker 3: But what we do know about this current these current

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Speaker 3: trends is that these the folks that are doing this

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Speaker 3: are interested in creating something that is very unique to them,

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Speaker 3: individuated to them. Whether that's ego move or a narcissism move,

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Speaker 3: you know, is again open to debate. But in addition

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Speaker 3: to sort of know taking their taste and putting it

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Speaker 3: into vehicular form, what they're really buying here, or at

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Speaker 3: least a big part of what they're really buying here

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Speaker 3: is access, right. So this is direct access to designers,

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Speaker 3: to executives, to you know, the centers of these of

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Speaker 3: these companies, so be that Ferrari with its ultra exclusive

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Speaker 3: nature or Rolls of Vice or any of these other

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Speaker 3: kinds of places. Right, So they get to go behind

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Speaker 3: the velvet rope, they get to meet directly with heads

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Speaker 3: of design and executives. They're known to these to these

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Speaker 3: people in these organizations. And you know, this is a

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Speaker 3: this is an experience, right, the experience of crafting something

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Speaker 3: like this as it is if you're custom designing a

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Speaker 3: home or you know, any other any other kind of product.

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Speaker 3: This is u you know, an opportunity to engage in

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Speaker 3: a long term process.

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Speaker 2: These customizations are I mean, especially the way you put it,

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Speaker 2: They're like decal packages, right, They're like piping on the

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Speaker 2: leather or a two tone paint job. And what I

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Speaker 2: would want to do because I don't care about the

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Speaker 2: access or the exclusivity or even signaling to my neighbors,

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Speaker 2: you know, like how wealthy I am. I care about

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Speaker 2: having three pedals and naturally aspirated motors and you know,

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Speaker 2: no screens, but like real gauges. So what I want

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Speaker 2: is to be able to make a product that I

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Speaker 2: think is the best. It wouldn't matter if I did

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Speaker 2: it with I guess Ferrari or Ford. Are are any

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Speaker 2: of these like billionaire customers of Bugatti or Q thinking

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Speaker 2: the same way that I am? Or do they just

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Speaker 2: want everyone to know that like they are Lebron James.

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Speaker 3: I think both things. So some of these cars like

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Speaker 3: from Mast and Martin that we've seen recently, you know

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Speaker 3: our you know, manual transmission u V twelve powered vehicles,

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Speaker 3: you know, I think there we're going to see more

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Speaker 3: probably of that as people crave this kind of analog

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Speaker 3: experience that you're alluding to, I would not be surprised

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Speaker 3: to see, uh, you know, manufacturers like Ferrari or Lamborghini,

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Speaker 3: even though they're you know, current power trains have such

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Speaker 3: extraordinary outputs that they're you know, incapable of being handled

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Speaker 3: by anything by a manual transmission oftentimes. You know, I

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Speaker 3: could see that happening, you know, sort of retreating back

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Speaker 3: to non hybrid powertrain, a naturally aspirated powertrain and putting

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Speaker 3: that into a vehicle for a limited number of clients.

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Speaker 3: These vehicles, you know, it involved you know, artisans of

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Speaker 3: the highest caliber working on you know, crazy materials market

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Speaker 3: tree done with like Abaloni and and Mother of Pearl.

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Speaker 2: You know, they also have they also have a distinctly

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Speaker 2: analog experience in that office. And I'm referring to the

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Speaker 2: phonograph centup with a simple two channel stereo sound true

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Speaker 2: for sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's like a listening bar in there, so you know,

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Speaker 3: I think you know that that whole presses is interesting.

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Speaker 3: My first entree as a weird precocious, you know, eight

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Speaker 3: or nine year old growing up in suburban Detroit into

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Speaker 3: loving cars was really the you know, cars of the

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Speaker 3: interwar era of the twenties and thirties. So when I

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Speaker 3: go to an event, you know, a concour event like

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Speaker 3: Emily Islander, Pebble Beach or Villadest or something like that,

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Speaker 3: and those cars are there, that's like thrilling to me, right,

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Speaker 3: And those vehicles during that era, like the cars that

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Speaker 3: we're seeing now that have been preserved from that era,

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Speaker 3: and many of them that were made, especially by the

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Speaker 3: ultra you know, ultra luxury marks like Dusenberger aside of

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Speaker 3: yeah Packer or whatever it might be. Yeah, these were

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Speaker 3: all one off or few off custom designed. They were

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Speaker 3: custom designed by you know, by coach builders for individual

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Speaker 3: clients with unique body styles. Uh, and you know, made

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Speaker 3: that the clients went into their taste and you know,

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Speaker 3: I think their art right like there there is there.

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Speaker 3: They're as much sculptural art as as the best from

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Speaker 3: from any modern or or past sculptor. You know. So,

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Speaker 3: you know, does this does it? Are we going to

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Speaker 3: end up there? You know what I mean? With these vehicles?

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Speaker 3: Should these things exist or not exist? You know? I

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Speaker 3: think you know, if we look if we look at uh,

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Speaker 3: look at the field at Pebble Beach, and see the

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Speaker 3: kind of artistry and artists in ship and sort of

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Speaker 3: fascinating forms, uh that really sort of tell the tale

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Speaker 3: of their time. You know, I think, you know, there's

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Speaker 3: there's reason to believe that that some of these things

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Speaker 3: should be made.

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Speaker 2: You're listening to our conversation with freelance automotive writer Brett Burke.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back after this break. Now, let's get back

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Speaker 2: to our conversation with Brett Burke.

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Speaker 1: You worked for years as a teacher before any of this.

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Speaker 1: You are you you do lots of other things. You

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Speaker 1: have a book about called like I think it's The

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Speaker 1: Gay Uncle's Guide to Parenting, which is incredible. Like you

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Speaker 1: are you have so much more dimension and depth than

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Speaker 1: all of your byline for Vanity Fair in New York

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Speaker 1: Times and Playboy and all of the greats Bloomberg included.

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Speaker 2: So even even that is a little bit more eclectic

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Speaker 2: than just Car and Driver and Rockport, right, and you're

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Speaker 2: also in time general Vanity Fair, yes, yeah, but has depth.

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Speaker 1: So so how did you get here and was it

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Speaker 1: what you expected all along?

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Speaker 2: Or no? The Hollywood Reporter, we we actually did a

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Speaker 2: piece on your Hollywood Reporter story.

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Speaker 3: Really yeah, which.

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Speaker 2: One about the Beverly Hills Car Club.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious. I grew up in Detroit.

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Speaker 3: No one really in my direct family, strangely enough, was

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Speaker 3: directly involved in the auto industry. I had great access to,

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Speaker 3: you know, the huge range of vehicular opportunities and vehicular culture.

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Speaker 3: And I fell in with cars when I was a

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Speaker 3: little kid. You know, it was like very very early on.

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Speaker 3: I was always a car lover. I had, you know,

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Speaker 3: like a My first car in high school was in

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy three BMW two thousand and two. Uh you know,

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Speaker 3: a little uh sort of sports uh sports sedan precursor

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Speaker 3: to the three series, which you know, I spent all

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Speaker 3: my money keeping running and repairing and uh yeah, just

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Speaker 3: loved loved cars, read but red car magazines throughout that

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Speaker 3: whole time period. When I went away to college at

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Speaker 3: Oberlin in Ohio.

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Speaker 2: I oh, great school.

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Speaker 3: Yeah I was. I had a great experience.

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Speaker 2: I went to Antioch, So, okay, right on are we were?

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Speaker 3: We were?

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Speaker 2: We were like slightly more radical but less thorough right.

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Speaker 3: Fair enough. Yeah, So I studied creative writing there. I

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Speaker 3: study fiction writing. I always knew on to be a writer.

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Speaker 3: Short story writing was my was my true love and

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Speaker 3: remains the passion. And at Oberlin, because of its radicalism

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Speaker 3: in certain ways, cars weren't exactly a subject matter that

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Speaker 3: was uh, that was on the table for people to discuss.

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Speaker 3: So I like to say, you know, I came out

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Speaker 3: in college. I was openly gay, but a closet car lover.

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Speaker 3: I used to hide in the public library and read

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Speaker 3: my car magazines in the public library at Oberlin.

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Speaker 2: Away from do that is hilarious. That's so very Oberlin. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: it really was.

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Speaker 3: And then I continued to follow industry I graduated. I

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Speaker 3: had a passion for education. I started working in early

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Speaker 3: childhood when I was in college. As my work study

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Speaker 3: job at Oberlin, I was worked at a preschool in

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Speaker 3: an early childhood center there. When I graduated, I continued

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Speaker 3: that interest and eventually went to grad school and got

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Speaker 3: a master's in early childhood education and child development, and

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Speaker 3: ended up running a preschool of my own in the

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Speaker 3: East Village that was a previously existing school had been

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Speaker 3: around since the eighteen nineties. It had been founded as

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Speaker 3: a settlement house for recent immigran in the late nineteenth century,

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Speaker 3: so it was kind of I think one of the

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Speaker 3: oldest continual operating preschools in the country, very list in

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Speaker 3: New York State, and I sort of, you know, stayed

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Speaker 3: connected to the automotive world, but I never worked you know,

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Speaker 3: I never worked in that realm, and I got out

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Speaker 3: of the classroom, as Hannah referred to. I wrote a

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Speaker 3: parenting book called The Gamicles Guides to Parenting that was

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Speaker 3: based on my experiences as an outside expert working with

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Speaker 3: lots of kids. There's essentially humorous stories of my friends

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Speaker 3: and family members failing as parents and me providing bitchy

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Speaker 3: commentary but also very strong, actionable advice. I really stand

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Speaker 3: by it as a book. I really think it's a

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Speaker 3: great parenting book. But anyway, when it came out, my

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Speaker 3: agent was like, you try to get in touch with,

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Speaker 3: you know, people you know in the publishing world, try

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Speaker 3: to write about parenting and child development to get your

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Speaker 3: name out there. That was really kind of my start

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Speaker 3: in this business was just this like bizarre random meet

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Speaker 3: up with this guy Mike Cogan, who I still praise

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Speaker 3: to this day, is sort of giving me my start,

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Speaker 3: taking a chance on me.

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Speaker 1: We always remember the person that helped us, Like there's

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Speaker 1: one person yeah, or event right, yes, or events.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then yeah, I just sort of started, you know,

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Speaker 3: it was a lark. You know, I was like, this

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Speaker 3: is so silly, Like I'm writing the silly car column.

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Speaker 2: What is your own personal automotive journey been since the

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Speaker 2: two thousand and two? I mean, obviously, as a car writer,

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Speaker 2: you get to test drive like everything. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 2: one of the greatest perks. It's the greatest perk of

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Speaker 2: the job, least for me. But as a fan of

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Speaker 2: especially as a fan of the pre war stuff like

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Speaker 2: our thirties, forties, even like hot rods, they're just not

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Speaker 2: around except for, you know, in the sort of billionaire collections.

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Speaker 2: So how do you How has your journey been with

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Speaker 2: your own cars?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question. I was just thinking the

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Speaker 3: other day as I was cruising bring a trailer, which

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Speaker 3: is something I do with bizarre frequency, or any of

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Speaker 3: the other auction sites, that it may be time for

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Speaker 3: me at some point soon to get you know, an

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Speaker 3: interwar car, a pre war car. But I don't have

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Speaker 3: one now and I never have, you know, I always

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Speaker 3: have had like just a you know, weird automotive taste.

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Speaker 3: I've owned on a number of Vinage Volvos from the seventies.

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Speaker 3: I have had three or four Honda Accords, which are

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Speaker 3: great cars, including some a couple of vintage ones early

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Speaker 3: first generation ones sold one on bring a trailer, actually

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago, first year or second year car.

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Speaker 3: Let's see. Currently I have a nineteen ninety range Rover,

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Speaker 3: which I love. I know my mechanic is one of

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Speaker 3: my closest friends up here.

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Speaker 1: That's a problem. That should not be the case.

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Speaker 2: No, that's the y.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. My younger brother who's in Detroit and I own

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Speaker 3: a couple of cars together. We had, up until a

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Speaker 3: year or so ago, nineteen seventy nine Fiat Spider, but

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Speaker 3: we sold that. We have a nineteen seventy eight Portion

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Speaker 3: nine twenty eight black on black manual transmiss first year

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Speaker 3: car and very original car. And we also have a

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Speaker 3: nineteen seventy two SOB ninety five Wagon, which is a

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Speaker 3: bizarre little two door, seven passenger, you know, four powered

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Speaker 3: front real drive, four on the tree station wagon that's

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Speaker 3: been getting some bodywork, paint and bodywork, and it's going

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Speaker 3: to get its interior done and we're going to sell

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Speaker 3: that as well, hopefully this year.

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Speaker 1: Let me know when you put that up, because I

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Speaker 1: might have some people who are.

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Speaker 2: Interested wow in an old SOB.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not me, but I know a few people who seriously.

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Speaker 1: Are all of those cars on the East Coast or

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Speaker 1: do you have any I noticed you said in California

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Speaker 1: so much?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the SOB of the Porsche are both in Michigan.

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Speaker 3: The yacht was here, the range rovers here h And

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Speaker 3: I have a you know, I have a Bookswagon Golf

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Speaker 3: all track station Wagon manual transmission as my daily driver.

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Speaker 3: And then yeah, like you mentioned, in and out of

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Speaker 3: a test car with amazing regularity for the past pretty

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Speaker 3: much eighteen years, almost every week. And uh yeah, so

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Speaker 3: I'm constantly driving the newest, the latest and greatest and

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Speaker 3: sometimes just you know, odd ball Cotidian you know, mass

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Speaker 3: market cars, just to sort of keep my finger on

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Speaker 3: what's going on out there.

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Speaker 1: So if you had, if money were no object, would

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Speaker 1: you be more likely to buy a modern car or

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Speaker 1: a classic car? Witch of it, you'd be more on

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Speaker 1: the class.

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Speaker 3: I mean, my list of like what I would love

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Speaker 3: for classic cars is you know, probably hundreds of cars long,

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Speaker 3: you know what I mean, It's too long to even

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Speaker 3: get into and it shifts and changes all the time.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm like, I didn't know.

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Speaker 1: I wanted, you know, but now I need it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly like a sixties Dodge van, you know or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Like I just you know, things come and go in

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Speaker 3: my in my affection, there's certain categories like I'm not

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Speaker 3: like a huge like pony car guy or muscle car guy.

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Speaker 3: But every swopping I see stuff and I'm like, you

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Speaker 3: know what I could see myself in that, you know,

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Speaker 3: So it's all over the map. It tends to be

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Speaker 3: more you know, like European cars from the era in

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Speaker 3: which I grew up. I'm I'm how old am I?

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Speaker 3: I'm fifty seven, so I'm a child of the seventies

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Speaker 3: and eighties. So there's a lot of stuff from that

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Speaker 3: time period I'm into. But I also like, you know,

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Speaker 3: more contemporary stuff from the from the nineties, two thousands,

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Speaker 3: and Yeah, there's like weird cars from the fifties, sixties

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Speaker 3: and then obviously from the twenties and that I'm really into.

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Speaker 3: And you know, like some of those things I look

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Speaker 3: at now, like especially cars from like the teams, like

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Speaker 3: brassier cars or whatever. No one wants those things, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe there's a maybe there's a role.

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Speaker 2: Well, I don't think there's a I don't think there's

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Speaker 2: such a public market for I you know, I always

397
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Speaker 2: find those cars so fascinating, especially since I hear, you know,

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Speaker 2: I read all of Hannah's work that they've fallen out

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Speaker 2: of favor to some extent as kids get into more

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Speaker 2: radwood stuff. But I don't see a place where I

401
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Speaker 2: can read more about learn more about trade, you know,

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Speaker 2: buy and sell pre war cars or even like you know, uh,

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Speaker 2: the hot Rods, the thirty two deuce coupe, flathead whatever. Like.

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Speaker 2: I know that there used to be hot Rod magazine,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure it still exists in some form or another,

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Speaker 2: but there's no place where like modern normal people can

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Speaker 2: indulge in these things, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: There, I mean there there definitely are, you know, like

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Speaker 3: magazines that are really aimed at the collector car hobby.

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Speaker 3: Uh that that's that published information about those there they

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Speaker 3: get they can be a little bit inside baseball. I

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Speaker 3: think for people who are you know, less uh immersed,

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Speaker 3: let's say, yeah, but yeah, you're right that it would

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Speaker 3: be you know, I've long thought it would be interesting

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Speaker 3: to have uh you know, I guess you know, like

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Speaker 3: Petrolicious did something like that for a period of time,

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Speaker 3: right where they're just sort of like, all right, we're

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Speaker 3: gonna bring this stuff to the foreground and sort of

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Speaker 3: you know, showcase some of these super cool vehicles. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's not it's uh, it's less. I think it's it's

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Speaker 3: definitely less less out there now. I remember interviewing a

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Speaker 3: guy Retromobile, the French collector cars.

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Speaker 1: I recommend that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, did you went recently a couple of times?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, and they're going to bring it. They're going

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Speaker 1: to bring a version to the US next year. Oh wow, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think people everyone should go to that. It's very cool.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's super cool. But he was the editor of

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Speaker 3: like a magazine in France called like Young Timers, and

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Speaker 3: these are you know, this is these are magazines. Yeah, yeah, exactly,

431
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Speaker 3: these are magazines. You know, this is a you know,

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00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,919
Speaker 3: more recent modern kind of collectible cars from the eighties

433
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,000
Speaker 3: and nineties, uh and then early two thousands, so things

434
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,200
Speaker 3: like that. But yeah, I think, you know, it's been

435
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,919
Speaker 3: sort of my mission in certain ways. No one wants

436
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: a whole magazine of the kind of stuff that I

437
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 3: read about, but it's been my mission to sort of

438
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 3: spread this around in various places. And I think even

439
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 3: maybe before Hannah was doing stuff for Bloomberg, I was

440
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: doing stuff on sort of like why you should buy

441
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: you know, this nineteen sixties Mercedes, or why you should

442
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: buy this you know the STUDI Baker Avanti.

443
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: You wrote a piece about how as you're like a

444
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: very old person, how you can go ahead and pass

445
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: your car along right, let go of it emotionally and physically,

446
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: And I thought those therapy it was funny that those

447
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 2: two kind of meshed so well. You know, it's a

448
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: really that's it.

449
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: Honestly, is a really big thing. I don't think I've

450
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:07,800
Speaker 1: ever had. And Brett you can speak to this too,

451
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever had the amount of

452
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: response of friends, people on Instagram, people out in the

453
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 1: world when they hear I'm writing about inheriting cars, especially

454
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: like inheriting your dad or granddad's or Grandma's car, how

455
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,040
Speaker 1: fraught it is. There's a lot of guilt, there's a

456
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 1: lot of tension. I had a couple of people who

457
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: wanted to speak to me because they had twenty terrible

458
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: years of family feuds, but they didn't want to have

459
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: their name used because they were too they had too

460
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: much anxiety about like reigniting this family feud over what

461
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: should happen to the car it is. It's a real thing,

462
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: and Brent, maybe you saw that too, but it seems

463
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: very frau.

464
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely. I worked out I had originally pitched this

465
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: story to the airp It's one of my regular outlets.

466
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 3: Strangely enough, they like very very certainty stories, and you know,

467
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 3: for a while, actually they had this was interesting. They

468
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: had an online magazine called The Arrow that was aimed

469
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 3: at Gen X men, like, you know, the next generation

470
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 3: of ARP members, and I was writing some automotive a

471
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 3: bunch of automotive stuff for them for a period of time.

472
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 3: But yeah, now I've sort of graduated into the mainstream

473
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 3: of the ARP and this story I had originally pitched

474
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: it about sort of you know, how to de accession

475
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: your car collection, essentially, like once you're too old or

476
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 3: infirmed to enjoy it or you want to, you know,

477
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 3: see other people enjoy it in your family or whatever

478
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 3: it might be, you know what to do about it,

479
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: And we ended up broadening the story. They do these

480
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 3: they do these pieces that are like you know, four

481
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,479
Speaker 3: or five thousand words like services stories about I did

482
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 3: want about like how to shop for an ev, how

483
00:28:46,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: to clean your car, how to keep your car running forever.

484
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,200
Speaker 3: So this one ended up being all about sort of

485
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: how to de accession your vehicle. So it had a

486
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: little bit of information about how to know when it's

487
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: time to stop driving. You know, I'm not a doctor,

488
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: And that's a lot of information about the various steps

489
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 3: to take when you want to get rid of a car,

490
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,400
Speaker 3: whether it's a regular daily driver or it's a collectible.

491
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 3: And but I talked to, you know, like an estates

492
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: and trusts attorney who specializes in in in you know,

493
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 3: in essentially deaccession or helping people figure out how to

494
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 3: you know, take their collection and either hand it over

495
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 3: to interested or uninterested parties or deal with it in

496
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: the aftermath. And yeah, it is definitely, it's definitely fraught.

497
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, there's a lot of car

498
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 3: collectors who, you know, they don't really have a they

499
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 3: don't really have a succession plan for their collection.

500
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: From what I hear and from what I see, it

501
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: seems like the Boomers loved to accumulate. And it's possible

502
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: that gen X and the millennials don't have that as

503
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: deeply ingrained and just accumulating and consumerism. And I mean

504
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: maybe we but maybe not. I mean the boomers were

505
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: not or like children of the eighties, you know, and

506
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: so this is a particular well transfer and I'm even

507
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: thinking of like all these Chris Rouser, who we all know,

508
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: did a piece about all these other things that are

509
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: being transferred to like your your mom's china collection or

510
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: your dad's record collection of thousands of records. We don't

511
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: want this stuff, do we, you know, the cars.

512
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 3: Like silver silver, silver serving dishes.

513
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: Yes, they're on the record collection. And to take it

514
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 2: down to Jerry's office in the baking district, stereo.

515
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: Is it is a really big question. It's like one

516
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 3: of these things you know, are generationally you know, cash,

517
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: cash and gold, you know what I mean, like everybody,

518
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 3: but you know, a lot of these other things, you know,

519
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 3: especially things that have been you know, significant, significant scale

520
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 3: collections become you know, it can become very very challenging,

521
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: and it could be you know, we're seeing this already

522
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 3: a little bit in the collector car market. It's like,

523
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: you know, as the baby boomers age and sell off

524
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 3: their collections of cars. Sometimes you know, they're not realizing

525
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: the prices that they hope for because there's no one

526
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: of their generation to buy all the best ones.

527
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: Right, I think I haven't read it yet, but you

528
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 2: wrote reportedly about the Motor Valley, which is I absolutely

529
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 2: love to go to Modena, and there's so much more

530
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 2: than cars obviously to do there. But what was your

531
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: take when I read your piece on the Motor Valley?

532
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: What am I gonna learn?

533
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:43,440
Speaker 3: I mean, I focused a lot on sort of the

534
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 3: automotive culture there. You know, there's dozens of private and

535
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,240
Speaker 3: public car museums there and they cover or vehicle museums.

536
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: There's a lot of motorcycle stuff that goes on there,

537
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: so there's there's all of that stuff. Right. There's at

538
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 3: least three or four race tracks where you can go

539
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 3: and drive, you know, rent, rent and drive exotic vehicles.

540
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 3: There's plenty of places where you can rent and drive

541
00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: exotic vehicles, you know, around around the region. Or you

542
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 3: can hire someone to do a lead follow with you

543
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 3: in case your vintage vehicle that you rent breaks down,

544
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 3: or you can hire someone to show for you around

545
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 3: seem in a vintage vehicle and you could rent these vehicles.

546
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: You know, you can rent a Ferrari in In in

547
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,360
Speaker 3: Modin and a Maranello. Uh, you know from the minute

548
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 3: to the hour or to the day, right like literally

549
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: for like seven minutes. So it's all of that. It's

550
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 3: all of the manufacturers, museums, it's all the manufacturers histories

551
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 3: right looking at mainly you know Maserati, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Pagani,

552
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,560
Speaker 3: and then you know a Dukati, a few others Dukati. Yeah,

553
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 3: less focused on less it's less focused on motorcycles, just

554
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 3: because I'm personally less focused on motorcycles. I don't ride motorcycles.

555
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 2: You're listening to our conversation with freelance automotive writer Brett Burke.

556
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: We'll be back after this break. Let's get back to

557
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 2: our conversation with Brett Burke.

558
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: The other piece that I really wanted to ask you

559
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: about that you've worked on recently, Brett, is this piece

560
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: on Jaguar because I know you, I know you. I

561
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: think Matt wanted to ask you about it. We're both

562
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: curious because.

563
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 2: You've written a couple of pieces about it.

564
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: Really, right, it seems you've seen the latest car in Camo.

565
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: Tell me if I'm getting this wrong. You haven't driven

566
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 1: it yet, but you've seen it, and yeah, please enlighten us,

567
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: tell us everything, the good, the badly.

568
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: I mean, you drove it, drove it for Edmunds.

569
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:53,280
Speaker 3: I drove it for inside EV's, and I drove some

570
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 3: Binga's vehicles related to it for Edmunds. And I'm also

571
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 3: working on a story for for The Times about Jaguar

572
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 3: that will come out sometime in the next few months.

573
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 3: They've relaunched their Wheels section, but it's a kind of

574
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 3: a slow roll. So yeah, I mean, hopes are high

575
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 3: for Jaguar internally.

576
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: Feel free if you want to scoop yourself, Brett, if

577
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: you want to give us a snoop here I can say.

578
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: I think I can safely say that neither Hannah nor

579
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,360
Speaker 2: I were really impressed with their ad campaign or their idea,

580
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 2: But personally.

581
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: I have it was more confusion.

582
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 2: Driving a lot more evs lately and am and have

583
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 2: been impressed by a lot of them. But recently I

584
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: was in the new BMW I seven and I thought, Wow,

585
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 2: this feels like an actual V twelve, Like it really

586
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like an EV anymore. And that's what I

587
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: noticed you you point out about the jag as well.

588
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 2: At least that's what they're going for.

589
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, And I think you know, there's a lot

590
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,400
Speaker 3: of there's a lot of overlap between sort of V

591
00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 3: twelve power and electric power, right, it's this sort of

592
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: instant on endless sense of thrust and torque, very smooth

593
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: and quiet operation. I mean, obviously there's streaming vates from

594
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: Aria and Lamborghini, but if you think about like the

595
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 3: big sort of classic thumpy vights from from Jaguar or Apple,

596
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 3: current application for Rolls Royce or even Mercedes in their

597
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: in their highest end luxury vehicles like the my Box.

598
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 3: You know, these are just like monster torque motors, right

599
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: that just sort of give you this sort of endless

600
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 3: sense that you can keep going, you know, put your

601
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,239
Speaker 3: foot in it and keep going forever kind of. And yeah,

602
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 3: very very very smooth and very very quiet in their operation,

603
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 3: or well balanced kind of the most well balanced engine.

604
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,080
Speaker 3: So this is what sort of Jaguar is going for

605
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 3: in the power delivery for its EV and you know,

606
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: I think that they have achieved it in an interesting way, right.

607
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: It doesn't just it's not just like you know, like

608
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:02,839
Speaker 3: some evs where you're you know, you're gonna snap your neck.

609
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: There's definitely plenty of thrust, but it also has this

610
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 3: sort of sense that there's like more available, you know,

611
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 3: as you keep going. So you know, and we drove

612
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 3: the car only around the company's test track right which

613
00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 3: is connected to its headquarters, and so you know, some

614
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 3: of it was on very smooth pavement. Some of it

615
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 3: was on the pavement that they used to test for noise,

616
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 3: vibration and harshness and stuff like that. So we got

617
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 3: to experience in a variety of different areas. The styling,

618
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 3: you know, I think will remain controversial. There's certain angles

619
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: from which it looks very elegant, I think, and there's

620
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 3: certain angles mainly in the front and the rear, where

621
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: I feel like it still looks a little bit unresolved.

622
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 2: You know, I never understood why loose it also said, hey,

623
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: let's start with the sedan. That's something nobody wants, like,

624
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 2: why not start with the suv, even if you know

625
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,840
Speaker 2: purists or journalists, you know.

626
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: As they're going for China because China loves a big,

627
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 1: big sedan, I.

628
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: Guess, I guess.

629
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially because a combination of factors. I think it's like,

630
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 3: you know, this is their heritage. If they launched with

631
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 3: an SUV, what was that? What does that say about

632
00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 3: Jaguar's commitment to its heritage, especially with this huge switch

633
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,880
Speaker 3: that they're doing. I think that SUV will probably follow

634
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: relatively quickly on the heels of the sedan, or at

635
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 3: least I hope, But you know, the gravity hasn't made

636
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 3: great shakes. I don't think for Luca. I haven't looked

637
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 3: at the most recent sales figures in the past month

638
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: or two. But I mean, I hope that it. I

639
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,160
Speaker 3: hope that it helps that company to survive. But this

640
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 3: is you know, the plans that Jaguar made to make

641
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 3: this shift happened you know, five years, seven plus years ago.

642
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: Right, it's a different universe.

643
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, things seem to be moving more geometrically in the

644
00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: direction of adoption of evs, and regulation was certainly moving

645
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: in that direction. Obviously a lot of that has changed,

646
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 3: uh in recent years. But they don't they don't have

647
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,840
Speaker 3: the Uh. There's there's not a great financial well that

648
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,960
Speaker 3: Jaguar can go to and say, you know what, Uh,

649
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 3: maybe this isn't going to work out. We need a

650
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 3: gasoline engine and the designs that they've created are not

651
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 3: capable of accommodating uh, you know, an internal combustion engine.

652
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,319
Speaker 1: I will say, when you bring up heritage, I see

653
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:31,320
Speaker 1: in your piece there's a photo of the new car

654
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: and Camo next to a really beautiful coop with like

655
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: no B pillar.

656
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's which XJSA twelve.

657
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 1: There you go. I don't know if that helps their case.

658
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 2: True, you know, it's.

659
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 1: This is exactly, this is exactly. It's like getting your

660
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: photo taken next to Cindy Crawford in the nineties. You

661
00:38:58,200 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: don't want to do that.

662
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 2: I well didn't Corsia recently. Put I can't remember like

663
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,319
Speaker 2: a nine to seventeen or their homage to a nine

664
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,799
Speaker 2: to seventeen next to an actual nine seventeen. Remember when

665
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 2: we were at Lama Hannah.

666
00:39:10,719 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: And yes, don't know, Yes, yes I do remember that.

667
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: I think I've blocked it momentarily, but I do remember

668
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:17,720
Speaker 1: that also a bad decision.

669
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So this is a question, right, they have this,

670
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 3: I mean, they have this amazing heritage. Obviously, the amazing

671
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 3: heritage that people talk about with Jaguar is from like,

672
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 3: you know, the fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, maybe the early nineties,

673
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 3: so it's been a little while since they've had that

674
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,359
Speaker 3: amazing heritage. So you know, I get the idea that

675
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 3: they needed to do something radical and do something different,

676
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,319
Speaker 3: and you know, I support the idea of trying you know,

677
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:46,840
Speaker 3: trying something radical and trying something different. I hope that

678
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,040
Speaker 3: the brand survives. You know, I'm a fan of the

679
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 3: Jaguar brand. I think it's cool and it has been

680
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 3: cool and very innovative, even in more recent incarnations. You know,

681
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,759
Speaker 3: if we think about the Ipace or whatever, right, it's

682
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 3: just like one of the first mass market you know,

683
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 3: luxury SUVs. Electric su used to come out in time.

684
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: The f TIPE I thought was great when it came out.

685
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 2: A lot of especially with the super Charge five Leader

686
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 2: then it was great. Yeah.

687
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: And the xt you know, the most recent Extra, I

688
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: thought it was a really cool car as well. So

689
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 3: I me know, they've got some they've got some chops.

690
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: Whether it makes it or not, I think is a

691
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 3: question of you know, the market and our current political

692
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 3: situation and gas prices.

693
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 2: Well, although at six figures, no one cares if it's

694
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: four dollars or seven dollars. A gallon right, correct, And

695
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:39,799
Speaker 2: you're not.

696
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:41,719
Speaker 3: Having as much of an impact on the on the

697
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 3: luxury car buy or you know, they're not suddenly I

698
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 3: mean yeah, I don't think they're. Probably they're deciding like,

699
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: oh maybe I should get the new Nissan Leaf instead

700
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 3: of instead of this, you know, this V twelve Mercedes

701
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: my box because of the price of gas, so it

702
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 3: remained should be seen how all of that plays out.

703
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,439
Speaker 2: I hope I want to end on referencing another piece

704
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: that you did, and I'll say that as I look

705
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 2: for as I look constantly for used cars to buy

706
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:19,480
Speaker 2: from Porsche nine nine sevens to you know, like bmw

707
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: M seven sixties, I hope and pray to find one

708
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 2: that's not black or white or gray. And I don't

709
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 2: understand why the people who option these cars initially were like, oh,

710
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 2: let me go with just black, you know, like if

711
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 2: they're offering green, why not take green? And also from

712
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: the manufacturer perspective, like looking back at the cars that

713
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: do well on the secondhand market, why not why aren't

714
00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: they all green? Why that? Why is that not OHK

715
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: green the base choice, you know, And you wrote a

716
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:52,239
Speaker 2: piece on how like we're finally moving away hopefully from

717
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: Gray's I think it was in the March Car Car

718
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: and Driver issue. Are we are we gonna make a

719
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: break from that boring Well we have seen.

720
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of market forces that sort of

721
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 3: obviously lead us down the pathway of these bland colors, right,

722
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 3: So dealers buy them to have them on their lot

723
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 3: because it's what the majority of people want to buy,

724
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 3: because it's a safe choice for the residual market. You know,

725
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 3: when you're getting off lease or when you're offloading it

726
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 3: to the second buyer, your taste, you know, not everyone

727
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 3: likes green, and these are sort of.

728
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 2: Remade tell that to bring a trailer.

729
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 3: I know.

730
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 2: I know.

731
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 3: What we have seen for the first time in recent decades,

732
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 3: since the sort of ascent of these what I like

733
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: to call the grade rainbow the newsprint spectrum took hold

734
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 3: in kind of the eighties and nineties, is a bump

735
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 3: increase in the number of people that are ordering cars

736
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:57,560
Speaker 3: with colors and a diminished a diminution in certain markets.

737
00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 3: It's even in the US market of people buying cars

738
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 3: that are just white, silver, gray, and black. And there

739
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 3: were some statistics that I read from one of the

740
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,400
Speaker 3: color investigators. I can't remember if it was Pantone or

741
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 3: PPG or one of the other outside analysts that said that,

742
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 3: you know, green in Europe had overtaken red in terms

743
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 3: of uh, you know, in terms of new car sales. UH.

744
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: And certainly we've seen a decrease in traditional kinds of

745
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 3: reds and blues, even in the US market where those

746
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 3: have been the most popular chromatic colors. I think this

747
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,160
Speaker 3: also comes down to, you know, during the pandemic, when

748
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 3: we had all the supply chain issues and people started

749
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 3: ordering cars as opposed to uh buying them off of

750
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 3: the dealer's lock because there weren't wasn't available stuff on

751
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,759
Speaker 3: the dealer's lot. People who could wait would order their

752
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 3: own car. And so we've seen now you know, it's

753
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 3: been a few years, people got accustomed to that day

754
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,759
Speaker 3: idea of specking their own vehicle the way that they

755
00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 3: like it. So we've seen a slight uptick I think

756
00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: in people specing vehicles to a more a less a

757
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:09,719
Speaker 3: less monochromatic spec And yeah, as you mentioned, Matt, we

758
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,520
Speaker 3: definitely see you know, in in the secondary market, at

759
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 3: least in the collector car area of the secondary market.

760
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 3: You know, people looking for the vehicles that really enunciate

761
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 3: their time period, right, whether that yeah, a Teal Mustang

762
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: or a Desert Rose seventies Cadillac, you know, a Teal

763
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: you know, nineties Mustang or nineteen seventies Desert Rose Cadillac

764
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 3: or Catillion yellow or whatever. You know, any of these

765
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 3: crazy car colors that existed that really you know, Avocados

766
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 3: and bards from the seventies. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So you know,

767
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 3: we see this, we see these those are the cars

768
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 3: that that are the most valuable right on the collector

769
00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 3: car market. And we see it even with you know,

770
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,439
Speaker 3: more recent models that show up on places like Bring

771
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 3: a Trailer or some of the other auction sites where

772
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 3: it's like, you know, it's not just you know a

773
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 3: black S class right, like it's got and maybe the

774
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 3: maybe it's the brown one, you know, or something like that.

775
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 3: Brown was having a moment maybe about yes years ago,

776
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:13,240
Speaker 3: ten to fifteen years ago. Caffeine.

777
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 2: I think Corvette had a caffeine color, right.

778
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,799
Speaker 3: They related it. I've written about Yeah, I've written about

779
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: car color trends quite quite a bit over the couple

780
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 3: past couple of decades that I've been working on this

781
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,760
Speaker 3: and yeah, they relate it to a series of different

782
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 3: interesting factors. Right we're seeing a rise in purples right now,

783
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 3: and the folks from PPG and Pantone said that it's

784
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,480
Speaker 3: it's about our interest in space, which I couldn't help

785
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 3: but think is about our interest in escaping this planet.

786
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 2: Corvette has a purpole. We can choose purple for Corvette.

787
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: I mean some of the supercars on the flip side,

788
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:55,640
Speaker 1: like Lamborghini's, I wish someone would just be satisfied putting

789
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 1: that Lamborghini in silver, or putting that Lamborghini in like

790
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 1: like the Rivelto I had was black on black and

791
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: it looked awesome. So I do think there are like exceptions. No,

792
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: that's this Corvette I had last weekend. I would have

793
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 1: paid money to have it be any White would have

794
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: been great, Silver would would have been incredible, because I

795
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 1: do think if the cup it's a zero one X

796
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:25,080
Speaker 1: or z r X one zero one x.

797
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 2: Uh it was orange.

798
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: No, No, it was their Sea Bring orange. And the

799
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,279
Speaker 1: car already has a massive wing on it, It's got

800
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 1: all this arrow. It already was semi embarrassing to drive

801
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 1: to my facial appointment in Largemont. So the fact that

802
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: it also is this like nitrous orange. I would have

803
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 1: been really happy if it actually was white or silver

804
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: or black. So that's the counterpoint.

805
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:54,279
Speaker 2: I had a silver one. I had a silver one

806
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 2: last week, just an e ray, but I and.

807
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: That looked phenomenal, phenomenal.

808
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:02,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I totally, I totally hear. You know, some

809
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 3: of these cars and this is a self selecting ownership category, right,

810
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: they self select for people that are a little more

811
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 3: as we like to say, extroverted. And so you know,

812
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 3: we end up with a with a quantity of these

813
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 3: vehicles and you know, one of the one of the

814
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 3: risks that happens. And I'm working on this in a

815
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,439
Speaker 3: couple different stories. Now, uh, this might actually be a big,

816
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 3: a good Bloomberg story somewhere downline, if you guys haven't

817
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 3: covered it already. Is sort of the secondary market for

818
00:47:26,719 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: these kinds of vehicles if we spec them out to

819
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: you know, to such an extreme taste point where it's

820
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:35,239
Speaker 3: a you know, magenta with a with a with a

821
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:39,359
Speaker 3: turquoise interior or something like that. Yeah, if you want

822
00:47:39,360 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 3: to get rid of your your your Lamborghini, is anyone

823
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 3: else going to have that same taste? And so you

824
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 3: know what is that? You know, so I think the

825
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 3: you know, the the color the color thing can swing

826
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,520
Speaker 3: wildly on various sides of the market.

827
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 2: What's the name of that famous Rolls Royce customer, Michael

828
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,479
Speaker 2: Michael Michael Fuchs. Yeah, if he ever tries to sell

829
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 2: his collection, he's gonna have a problem.

830
00:48:03,800 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 1: Right. Well, we we we we even saw this, and

831
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: to your point, Brett, we did do a story about

832
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:14,800
Speaker 1: literally taking auction results and correlating them to the color

833
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: of the car, and if it's the right car and

834
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 1: the right color, it'll pop for sure.

835
00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, so fascinating.

836
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:24,440
Speaker 2: That was Brett Broke. Fascinating conversation. I'm so glad that

837
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: I got to talk to him for an hour because

838
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: I've seen him at various car you know, launches, or

839
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 2: as I said, you know, at Aston Marton at the

840
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,280
Speaker 2: Q Center, but I've never gotten to hang with him.

841
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 2: And I always I always instantly like, like from the

842
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 2: first time I saw him, I was like, oh, I

843
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:42,800
Speaker 2: want to hang with that dude, And I don't usually

844
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 2: think that when I see car automotive journalists, you know.

845
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 1: Same, can't wait till we do our whole episode on that.

846
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 2: We I mean, yes, we could be caddy ourselves.

847
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 1: We love cats meow.

848
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 2: All right, So we have a lot more to talk about.

849
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 2: We're gonna save it because we have so much coming

850
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: up on this podcast in the next few weeks. We

851
00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 2: have Zach Brown coming up after the resurgence of McLaren.

852
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 2: That'll be super fascinating. We have both been driving even

853
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: more corvettes.

854
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and we are purposefully not discussing that now because

855
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: we're about to pop.

856
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 2: Off on It's killing me. It's killing me not to

857
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 2: talk about the Corvette, but we won't for now. And

858
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 2: we also have wait, I forgot what else we have?

859
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 2: What else are we doing next?

860
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: Ken On Bros. Will come on with us to talk

861
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Speaker 1: about Villadeste, which is one of the most glorious car

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Speaker 1: shows in the world on Lake Como of George Clooney

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Speaker 1: fame and brod Errow is having one of their auctions there.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to get like a really good market

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Speaker 1: update on collectibles for the summer from Kenny.

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Speaker 2: If only I could spend my time attending automotive events

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Speaker 2: like full time just going to Villadeste Retromobile I going

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Speaker 2: to which the Kebblebeach, Goodwood yes, exactly, the revival. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Amelia Island. You know, various F one races. That's how

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Speaker 2: you that's how you spend your life, Hannah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 2: That does it.

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Speaker 1: For this week's show, Remember to follow and subscribe to

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Speaker 1: Hot Pursuit on Apples, Spotify, and anywhere else you listen.

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Speaker 1: You can also send us your comments. Email us at

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Speaker 1: hot Pursuit at Bloomberg dot net.

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Speaker 2: And check out Hannah's columns and stories on bloomberg dot

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Speaker 2: com and the Bloomberg Business app. Go there for car reviews,

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Speaker 2: events and stories that you won't find anywhere else. Find

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Speaker 2: it all at Bloomberg dot com, slash Pursuits, slash Autos.

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Speaker 2: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 1: And I'm Hannah Elliott. We'll be back in your podcast

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Speaker 1: speed again next week