Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York. This is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up.
Speaker 2: Google heads back to court to take on the Department
Speaker 2: of Justice over a search monopoly fix.
Speaker 3: Plus in an era of tariffs.
Speaker 2: Netflix stands out why Wall Streets is the stock as
Speaker 2: recession proof, and TSMC warns there will be challenges limiting
Speaker 2: China from its AI chips. Details this hour, but first
Speaker 2: we check in on the markets, which once again are
Speaker 2: under pressure. The Naza bears the brunt when NASAK one
Speaker 2: hundred off by more than two point three let's call
Speaker 2: it two point four percent on the day. We are
Speaker 2: worried about the macro, about the future of j. Powell
Speaker 2: at the Fed, and we see the impact on the
Speaker 2: Magnificent seven.
Speaker 3: Not though on crypto.
Speaker 2: We see bitcoin bounce that as gold gets once again
Speaker 2: that desire to get into a haven trade, so too.
Speaker 2: There's a shorter end of the treasuries, but Bitcoin up
Speaker 2: three point seven percent, the high sets we've seen since
Speaker 2: the beginning of March eighty eight thousand, Move on and
Speaker 2: have a look at some individual stocks, because Tesla, on
Speaker 2: the downside, what off by more than six percent, one
Speaker 2: of the key contributors in terms of points. Apple's falling
Speaker 2: in video is falling, but Tesla too. Will dig into
Speaker 2: why we're concerned kind of all important earnings this week
Speaker 2: come Tuesday. Remember we've got a whole raft of earnings,
Speaker 2: but we've already got a little bit of sentiment. Check
Speaker 2: on what seems to be resilient in the face of
Speaker 2: macro pressure. Netflix up two point eight percent, the best
Speaker 2: performer on the Nasdaq one hundred from a points perspective.
Speaker 2: But let's get to Ryanvstelica, who can join us now
Speaker 2: on the weight that mag seven is feeling today. Seems
Speaker 2: to be a macro one, seems to be one of
Speaker 2: the fed. There are some standouts when it comes to earnings.
Speaker 4: Hey, good morning, thanks for having me.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's still a lot of uncertainty out there, and
Speaker 5: the new news surrounding you know, is Powell potentially at risk?
Speaker 5: That is just adding to the level of uncertainty out there.
Speaker 5: There's so much polity uncertainty in this broader sense that
Speaker 5: maybe the US isn't the sort of safe haven economy
Speaker 5: that it has been viewed as really for decades. So
Speaker 5: that is a massive shift out there and causing a
Speaker 5: lot of uncertainty.
Speaker 2: Netflix is, from an equity perspective, deemed a haven.
Speaker 3: We are going to hear from so many.
Speaker 2: CEOs this week, whether it's well some that have to
Speaker 2: face the court but also have to fase earnings. I mean,
Speaker 2: we know that we're going to be hearing from the
Speaker 2: CEO of Google in that capacity.
Speaker 3: It's to capacity that being alphabet too.
Speaker 2: But also you've got intell, You've got IBM, you've got
Speaker 2: Texas instruments.
Speaker 3: There's a lot that we can take a gauge of. Ryan.
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely so Netflix is maybe a little bit of
Speaker 5: an anomaly compared to those other names you mentioned, not
Speaker 5: quite as subject to the tear of risk as some
Speaker 5: of the chip makers and hardware companies out there, which
Speaker 5: have really been driving a lot of the selling this year.
Speaker 5: It is also seen as a recession resistant company, given
Speaker 5: the idea that you know, if people are pulling back,
Speaker 5: by which I mean consumers, they're not likely to cut
Speaker 5: their Netflix subscription in the way that they might be
Speaker 5: pulling back on other kinds of discretionary spending. So it
Speaker 5: seems like it has both offensive and defensive characteristics. That's
Speaker 5: what one of the analyst notes I read this morning said.
Speaker 5: So obviously a pretty positive company, a pretty positive earnings report,
Speaker 5: and that stock has been doing well this year, especially
Speaker 5: relative to the rest of the mag seven, the old fangs,
Speaker 5: just the broader market.
Speaker 2: Certainly, and the moment only five names on the nasat
Speaker 2: one hundred are in the green. One of the micro strategy,
Speaker 2: the other Netflix, Key ran Vasselica.
Speaker 3: We thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Let's get more on the tech market sell off more broadly,
Speaker 2: Scott Labner's with US Horizon Investments, and just at this moment, Scott,
Speaker 2: within this uncertainty from a macro perspective, do you want
Speaker 2: to be buying in some of this weakness and tech?
Speaker 6: Hey, Caroline, Yeah, I think you actually do.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think this is one place where you
Speaker 7: can start putting some some money to work and some
Speaker 7: some new money to work. Probably I'd be a little careful,
Speaker 7: you know, as you guys are just talking about it's
Speaker 7: probably not the time for the chips because of all
Speaker 7: the tarif uncertainty. But you know, something more like like
Speaker 7: an equal weight sort of tech play. You know, you
Speaker 7: get you know, catch on the themes with AI. You know,
Speaker 7: like if you remember, you know, the starting place before
Speaker 7: all the tarif stuff, we're all talking about AI.
Speaker 6: Still because it was still a really big deal. It
Speaker 6: will continue to be a big deal.
Speaker 7: It's just being overshadowed currently, and so you know, this
Speaker 7: is probably a pretty good time to start putting money
Speaker 7: to work towards that sector and towards that theme.
Speaker 2: Okay, but if it's not chips, how are you thinking
Speaker 2: about the AI opportunity.
Speaker 6: Yeah, look, I think it's a little bit more nuanced
Speaker 6: right now.
Speaker 7: You know that this is you know, you can think
Speaker 7: about the AI trade as being or you know, the
Speaker 7: AI investments broadly, as as following a couple of different phases.
Speaker 6: You know, we've been in mostly sort of.
Speaker 7: The infrastructure phase and that's and that's dominated obviously by chips,
Speaker 7: by the hard work kind of kinds of things, just
Speaker 7: like routers dominated the first part.
Speaker 6: Of the Internet cycle.
Speaker 7: We're getting now into more of the prove it stage
Speaker 7: of AI, which is where you know, we're comps.
Speaker 6: You're gonna have to figure out and prove to the
Speaker 6: market that hey, I'm using this stuff. I know how
Speaker 6: to make it.
Speaker 7: I know how to use it in my company to
Speaker 7: dry productivity, dry processes, and to get higher margins ultimately,
Speaker 7: which is really the name of the game for this.
Speaker 7: And so you know, finding those companies that can help
Speaker 7: deliver that type of margin expansion through through productivity growth
Speaker 7: using AI is really is what we think is kind
Speaker 7: of the next trade. And so that's why that that
Speaker 7: more equal weight treatment we think is probably a better play.
Speaker 2: When we think about this week, though, Scott and the
Speaker 2: amount of guidance we might get from earnings from CEOs,
Speaker 2: whether it's the telecom sector that comes thick and fast,
Speaker 2: whether you've got some of those chip names, whether it's
Speaker 2: Intel or Texas Instruments, Are you expecting the guidance to
Speaker 2: be lower?
Speaker 7: We expect the guidance to be completely fuzzy, Like, look,
Speaker 7: I'm not sure who's who's gonna leave guidance.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, United Airlines come out, you know, last week and say, look,
Speaker 7: here's our guidance for a recession. Here's our guidance for
Speaker 7: non recession. Like that's not guidance, I mean, that's actually
Speaker 7: it's just fairly useless. And so you know, what we're
Speaker 7: really going to be focusing on is like how are
Speaker 7: companies thinking operating? So, you know, in terms of the guidance,
Speaker 7: like the numbers aren't really going to mean anything, nobody's
Speaker 7: gonna believe them, But in terms of like philosophically, like
Speaker 7: how are you operating in this environment through this uncertainty?
Speaker 7: How are you thinking about cappex What sort of contingency
Speaker 7: plans do you have in place? It's really gonna be
Speaker 7: those types of things that the people are going to
Speaker 7: be looking for. It's it's going to be a you know,
Speaker 7: a kind of a tip of the cap towards good management.
Speaker 7: You know, good management and thoughtful management will probably you know,
Speaker 7: get a premium through this kind of cycle. Yeah, but
Speaker 7: it's you know, it's gonna be really those types of
Speaker 7: more squishy qualitative things that folks can be looking for
Speaker 7: rather than focusing on the hard numbers this quarter.
Speaker 3: Let's go to the squishy CAPEX then, Scott, because what.
Speaker 2: Are you expecting in terms of companies commitment to continue
Speaker 2: to spend? We're all questioning it from well, the hyperscale
Speaker 2: is when it comes to in video investment, for example, you.
Speaker 7: Know, I think I think it's going to be a
Speaker 7: time scale type of type of argument. So, you know,
Speaker 7: I don't think like nobody's very confident in the next
Speaker 7: few months, Like nobody has any visibility into what these policies.
Speaker 6: Are actually going to look like, what these serves are
Speaker 6: actually going to look like.
Speaker 7: What we're really focusing on is like, what are folks
Speaker 7: thinking about for the next two to three years and
Speaker 7: are they actually being are they going to start executing
Speaker 7: on some of those plans? So, you know, again, it's
Speaker 7: it's just a tip towards the towards of management, towards
Speaker 7: the guide you know, towards uh, you know, teams that
Speaker 7: are proven that they can think through some of the
Speaker 7: short term issues, manage through some of the short term issues,
Speaker 7: and really focus more on the medium term stuff that
Speaker 7: will like you know, that can have the benefits accrue
Speaker 7: to them through time. It's you know, again, it's not
Speaker 7: going to be a easy charge. I mean, this is
Speaker 7: not going to be an easy earning season to figure
Speaker 7: out and sort of bottom line for folks. It's really
Speaker 7: going to be kind of a company by company, hand
Speaker 7: to hand battle.
Speaker 2: What about global exposure versus domestic exposure? I think of
Speaker 2: the telecoms names, and they've weathered relatively resiliently because they're
Speaker 2: focused on a.
Speaker 3: Consumer here in the US.
Speaker 2: How do you think about opportunities to invest abroad or
Speaker 2: companies that have exposure abroad right now?
Speaker 6: Scott, Yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean, look, if you're thinking about investing in broad
Speaker 7: you know, it's really about two things right now for US.
Speaker 7: One is, you know, we do think the dollar down
Speaker 7: trend is going to be fairly strong and and fairly
Speaker 7: persistent for the next couple of years.
Speaker 6: And you know that that in and of itself, it gives.
Speaker 7: You a pretty to a tailwind if you're an international
Speaker 7: investor investing international equities. So you know that's that's a
Speaker 7: starting place and so you've got to get the dollar
Speaker 7: part right for that, and we do think that dollar
Speaker 7: trend is lower.
Speaker 6: The other thing, though, is importantly the fiscal expansion.
Speaker 7: You know, like on fiscal thrust is now the realm
Speaker 7: of internationals and not the realm of the United States,
Speaker 7: you know, companies and or the United States governments. Sorry,
Speaker 7: and you know that the market definitely rewards fiscal expansion.
Speaker 6: We saw that through COVID, We've seen that over the
Speaker 6: last ten years.
Speaker 7: Really and so you know, the sort of the dual
Speaker 7: thing of fiscal expansion internationally versus the US, and you know,
Speaker 7: and and the dollar trending lower against most major trading partners.
Speaker 7: You know, we think those two tailwinds are going to
Speaker 7: you know, really really be to be to the benefit
Speaker 7: of international equity investing for the next probably year or so.
Speaker 3: Most major trading partners.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you count China as one of
Speaker 2: them any more, Scott, but what about China's investment the
Speaker 2: fiscal stimulus and whether or not you want to me
Speaker 2: in some of these Chinese internet names for.
Speaker 6: Example, yeah, Karion Lens.
Speaker 7: Really, it's obviously a pretty tricky one, you know. You know,
Speaker 7: China we think is going to get it's kind of
Speaker 7: getting bullied, just like Europe is kind of getting bullied
Speaker 7: in into doing the fiscal expansion thing. We think China's
Speaker 7: gonna get bullied a little bit by Trump into doing
Speaker 7: uh sort of countercyclical fiscal expansion, countercyclical policies, which.
Speaker 6: They've really been resistant to for the last couple of years.
Speaker 7: You know, one thing that we think is pretty important,
Speaker 7: especially for Chinese tech though, is you know, you premiere
Speaker 7: she he's dropped the common prosperity language. We've not heard
Speaker 7: common prosperity come out of his mouth or or in
Speaker 7: written for him for many months now, and that you
Speaker 7: know that when that common prosperity the language just started
Speaker 7: to take hold, it's really the death note towards Chinese,
Speaker 7: so towards Chinese equities and Chinese tech in particular. And
Speaker 7: so you know that that language being dropped, we think
Speaker 7: is important. And so you know, the combination of that
Speaker 7: language being dropped, so he's signaling a changed uh, you know,
Speaker 7: changing his mindset towards capitalism, changes his mindset towards those
Speaker 7: Chinese tech companies. Plus what we think is going to
Speaker 7: have to be some sort of fiscal countercyclical uh you
Speaker 7: know response by the Chinese governments, you know, you know,
Speaker 7: makes those you know, probably probably okay to invest in.
Speaker 7: But man, that is a tricky one.
Speaker 2: Scott Ladner, Horizon Investments, thanks so much for joining us today.
Speaker 3: Coming up, Alphabet heads to.
Speaker 2: Call as the government continues its push to split up Google.
Speaker 3: This is Blue Meg Technology today. Alphabet's Google.
Speaker 2: Well, it's in court of a US government prosal to
Speaker 2: split up the company. It follows a ruling last year
Speaker 2: that Google has an illegal monopoly in web search. Lumeg's
Speaker 2: Michael Shepherd has the details in Washington, and last week
Speaker 2: it was all about that landmark ad.
Speaker 3: Tech monopoly ruling.
Speaker 2: This week, when we're reminded of the search ruling, what
Speaker 2: are the remedies that likely to be discussed?
Speaker 8: Chat Well, Carol, you're right that this is another front
Speaker 8: in a broader antitrust push against Alphabet and a number
Speaker 8: of other tech companies. But here we're talking about search,
Speaker 8: and what the government is saying is that, look, Google
Speaker 8: has this illegal monopoly per judges ruling back in August,
Speaker 8: and these are the remedies that we would like to see.
Speaker 8: This is the so called penalty a remedy phase, and
Speaker 8: before the same judge who made that rolling back in August,
Speaker 8: they are calling for a couple of big changes. One
Speaker 8: is that Google should sell off its Chrome browser. Another
Speaker 8: is that it should be licensing more data to its competitors,
Speaker 8: and then finally, it should stop making all those billions
Speaker 8: of dollars in payments to companies like Apple and others
Speaker 8: to guarantee a good position on those platforms for its
Speaker 8: search engine. Something that the judge found signaled anti competitive behavior.
Speaker 8: Now Google has countered with saying that, look, making changes
Speaker 8: like this will hinder innovation, it will put us at risk,
Speaker 8: put the US at is at risk of losing a
Speaker 8: competitive edge on the global stage. In essence, they are
Speaker 8: saying that, look, the Justice Department's proposed fixes would seek
Speaker 8: to break something that doesn't need fixing.
Speaker 2: What's really interesting is just the time that it's been
Speaker 2: more than forty years since we got the breakup of
Speaker 2: marbll AT and t is in twenty five years since
Speaker 2: Microsoft was under the microscope chev What do we think
Speaker 2: will actually be an outcome in any sort of time
Speaker 2: horizon here.
Speaker 8: Well, they're talking about perhaps August to actually learn what
Speaker 8: the judge's decision as far as the remedy goes. But
Speaker 8: this will go on for years to come. This case
Speaker 8: is not over now or in August. No matter what happens,
Speaker 8: either a ruling in favor of the government again or
Speaker 8: against the government, it will head to the Supreme Court
Speaker 8: Foreign Appeal. Both sides have a lot at stake here,
Speaker 8: and the US government is not showing any signs of
Speaker 8: letting up in its anti trust push against the major
Speaker 8: tech companies. We saw the Meta trial being pushed in
Speaker 8: the case being pushed by the Federal Trade Commission proceeding
Speaker 8: last week with testimony from Mark Zuckerberg and Cheryl Sandberg
Speaker 8: about the company's alleged anti competitive behavior there and then
Speaker 8: here in Google. As we were talking at the top
Speaker 8: about the two front push there from the government against Alphabet,
Speaker 8: and then there are other companies as well, Apple for
Speaker 8: instance and Amazon are also under pressure over competitive practices
Speaker 8: that the government has singled out is potentially harmful to
Speaker 8: the market.
Speaker 2: Care not to mention on the EU's been looking at too.
Speaker 2: Greenberg's Michael Shepherd with all things from Washington, let's discuss
Speaker 2: this further the former Nebraska Attorney General Doug Peterson with
Speaker 2: US currently at Keating O'Gara and Doug, it's really interesting
Speaker 2: as to how much you with AG and Nebraska pushed
Speaker 2: forward on this particular case or many others that surround
Speaker 2: Alphabet at the moment, and it was under the previous
Speaker 2: Trump administration that first kicked off in twenty twenty.
Speaker 3: What impact remind.
Speaker 2: Us does this have on the consumer, on the tech
Speaker 2: industry at large, this sort of form of.
Speaker 9: Control, I think the biggest issue that as attorney generals.
Speaker 4: That we had concerned.
Speaker 9: About was that big tech was accumulating so much personal data,
Speaker 9: and that data really presented the consumer almost as the product,
Speaker 9: because the data was what fed search, it's what feeds AI.
Speaker 9: And really we felt as AGS that we needed to
Speaker 9: step forward because their privacy and the use of their
Speaker 9: data for profit was a big concern.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about that for the consumer in this scenario,
Speaker 2: because Google would counter that this is going to hurt
Speaker 2: the consumer if you separate, for example, Chrome off suddenly
Speaker 2: that seamless approach if you're an Android user, if you're
Speaker 2: a Chrome user disintegrates. Does that ultimately hold firm in
Speaker 2: your mind?
Speaker 6: You know, I don't think so.
Speaker 9: I think one of the biggest concerns we had was
Speaker 9: that what Google did in maintaining and this is in
Speaker 9: the judge's August opinion, in maintaining this monopoly, it basically
Speaker 9: created this ecosystem where they entered into exclusionary contracts with
Speaker 9: all the important players, had some revenue sharing with us,
Speaker 9: which were very important, and then as a result they
Speaker 9: create this basically this feedback loop that keeps everything contained
Speaker 9: within Google, and the result of that is a disincentivize
Speaker 9: anyone from the outside actually being able to get any
Speaker 9: capital to challenge with a certain type of search engine
Speaker 9: that may be a better product, may better protect privacy.
Speaker 9: All of that is pretty much locked out because investors
Speaker 9: weren't going to invest in someone who's going to go.
Speaker 4: Up against Google.
Speaker 9: And second of all, all the players within that loop
Speaker 9: that they had through these exclusionary contracts, you know, we're
Speaker 9: disincentivized to look at working with any other technologies. So frankly,
Speaker 9: I think it's put a ten year hold on really
Speaker 9: developing better search technology.
Speaker 3: Interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, eddie q is going to be giving evidence
Speaker 2: from Apple they get about twenty six billion dollars a
Speaker 2: year in terms of payments to be offering that exclusive
Speaker 2: nature of Google as a search option. But there are
Speaker 2: other companies out there are the search options that actually
Speaker 2: get money from Google too. What do you think we'll
Speaker 2: hear in terms of some of the evidence given this week, Well.
Speaker 4: I think there's several things.
Speaker 6: One.
Speaker 9: I think the Court in its August opinion made some
Speaker 9: really important five feeds about the effects of these revenue
Speaker 9: sharing contracts. I think the Court also really realized the
Speaker 9: importance of scale because having that data and Google being
Speaker 9: able to acquire so much of that just builds a
Speaker 9: scale that actually makes it very difficult for any competition
Speaker 9: to occur. So I think we're going to once again
Speaker 9: see evidence about how companies who wanted to develop products
Speaker 9: in general search and also in the area of search
Speaker 9: advertising text advertising will see evidence of how they've been
Speaker 9: kept out of the market and how it's necessary, including
Speaker 9: the divestiture of Chrome is an important element to balance
Speaker 9: out competition in the market.
Speaker 2: Alphabet shares currently act session laws by two and a
Speaker 2: half percent. They've got their earnings later this week, So
Speaker 2: Sono Pitch is a busy guy.
Speaker 3: Doug.
Speaker 2: I'm interested though, in the countering nature from Google also,
Speaker 2: is this is backward looking. We suddenly got a lot
Speaker 2: more competition in the search space because open AI is
Speaker 2: there and all perplexity these other generative AI forms of search.
Speaker 3: Is that an interesting argument. Is the timing wrong here?
Speaker 10: Well?
Speaker 9: No, Actually, I think the timing's really important because I
Speaker 9: think we both the Department of Justice and the state
Speaker 9: Attorneys General recognize that technology is moving so quickly. AI
Speaker 9: is moving very quickly. But what's the fuel of all
Speaker 9: of that, once again is data, And so we think
Speaker 9: actually part of what we're asking for in the remedy
Speaker 9: is to ask the court to keep a monitoring process
Speaker 9: going so that we can follow this as we go
Speaker 9: into the AI world development because really from a vent diagram,
Speaker 9: there's a lot of overlap, and so having an ongoing
Speaker 9: monitoring ability by the court will allow us to address
Speaker 9: some of the new technology challenges that might come forward.
Speaker 3: Back in private practice.
Speaker 2: But of course, the former Nebraska Attorney General Doug Peterson,
Speaker 2: wonderful to have some time with you.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 8: You.
Speaker 3: Look at Tessa shares.
Speaker 2: They're off by or more than seven percent, worst day
Speaker 2: since April tenth for the stop the company's biggest falls.
Speaker 2: One of them at least sent a start warning to investors.
Speaker 2: Wedbush analyst d and I saying that this is code
Speaker 2: read this moment for Tesla and the elol Musk needs
Speaker 2: to pivot his focus from the Department of Government efficiency
Speaker 2: to avoid lasting brand damage. Remberg's David Welch joins us, Now,
Speaker 2: we've heard this revives before, but earnings come Tuesday.
Speaker 3: It's an important moment.
Speaker 11: That's right, and I think investors obviously Dan ives among them,
Speaker 11: he's an analyst, course, but I want to hear that
Speaker 11: Elon is going to come back. They want to hear
Speaker 11: that there's a focus again on getting the sales going,
Speaker 11: that you're going to coo or praise TV coming out.
Speaker 11: And I think the big thing too that's kind of
Speaker 11: kept the narrative going before this sort of politically related
Speaker 11: route that they've had is what's going on with the
Speaker 11: autonomous vehicle, with the whole AI and AV business that
Speaker 11: Eon talked about a while back, and with him in
Speaker 11: the government and cutting government costs with DOGE, Investors aren't
Speaker 11: seeing a lot of that. This is the sort of
Speaker 11: thing that goes back years right when investors were worried
Speaker 11: Elon was spending too much time at SpaceX or with
Speaker 11: the boring company and not enough time at Tesla, And
Speaker 11: here he's basically spending most of his time at the government.
Speaker 11: And they want to see that the guy who built
Speaker 11: the company and who has steered it and made a
Speaker 11: lot of people a lot of money is back and
Speaker 11: focused on Tesla.
Speaker 3: And on innovation.
Speaker 2: Many looking towards other evs, particularly in China that are
Speaker 2: speeding up with charging in c ATL, maybe having charges
Speaker 2: that bring us to five minutes or less to full charge.
Speaker 2: David just move us away from Also, where areas that
Speaker 2: cars being impacted? Right now, I'm looking at Hurts, a
Speaker 2: big investment coming into Hurts. Interestingly, they made a poor
Speaker 2: decision around Tesla investments in the past, but now it
Speaker 2: looks as though Pershing Square like what they're doing now.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 11: And remember in the fourth quarter Hurtz said that they
Speaker 11: were done sewing down this Tesla bed that really caused
Speaker 11: like two point nine billion dollars worth of losses last year.
Speaker 11: So if that's behind them and the market still isn't
Speaker 11: rewarding them for that, it was trading down below four
Speaker 11: dollars a share before Acman bought in, it doesn't take
Speaker 11: too much in terms of operating improvements for Hurts to
Speaker 11: really start to move the needle and get things going
Speaker 11: again in the right direction, assuming that there's no more
Speaker 11: of a wicked tail here from the Tesla bet and
Speaker 11: Acman mentioned that in his letter. And the other thing
Speaker 11: too he's looking at is could this be a tariff
Speaker 11: bet here? If tariffs drive up the prices of new cars,
Speaker 11: it always has an impact brings up the price of
Speaker 11: used cars as well. Herts has hundreds of thousands of
Speaker 11: them in their fleets, and if they sell them at
Speaker 11: a better price than they bottom for, that's just good
Speaker 11: for the company and will help them pay down some
Speaker 11: of their debts. So there are some potential tail winds
Speaker 11: here and some potential operating improvements for Hurts and Actmen's
Speaker 11: betting that the Tesla damage is behind the company and
Speaker 11: it's all at least some kind of improvement going forward.
Speaker 2: To nineteen percent bet David Welch, thanks so much, and
Speaker 2: all the things evs and Auto's welcome back to bloemag
Speaker 2: Technology and Caroline Hide in New York. A quick check
Speaker 2: on these markets that are once again on a downdraft.
Speaker 2: Now we're seeing the NAZNAT one hundred feeling the brunt
Speaker 2: of the sell off right now. We're off by two
Speaker 2: and three quarters of a percent. In fact, on the
Speaker 2: naszat one hundred and only five stocks we're actually in
Speaker 2: the green, everything in the red. We move from the
Speaker 2: micro anxiety of chip stocks, of worries about earnings, but
Speaker 2: also to the macro perspective, what of J. Powell, what
Speaker 2: of his future? We're currently on the downside. Move on
Speaker 2: to some of the individual movers that we're keeping.
Speaker 3: An eye on.
Speaker 2: Nvidia is one of the key that is on the downside.
Speaker 2: From the points perspective, we're currently seeing off by more
Speaker 2: than five percent. For three straight days, we've seen losses.
Speaker 2: It's wiped out almost four hundred billion dollars worth of
Speaker 2: market cap in those three days. I'm also looking though
Speaker 2: at TSMC off by three point three percent. They're putting
Speaker 2: out a warning in an annual report saying, now, maybe
Speaker 2: we're going to find it very hard to ensure that
Speaker 2: the end users of our chips aren't Chinese. Let's talk
Speaker 2: about that a little bit more with Ian King who
Speaker 2: joins us now. And look, this is TSMC saying, look,
Speaker 2: we hear you US government. We understand you want to
Speaker 2: be limiting some of the exports to certain Chinese entities.
Speaker 3: We don't always know where they're going.
Speaker 12: Yeah, I mean this is obviously an attempt by them
Speaker 12: to try to sort of shift the blame or shift
Speaker 12: the focus. They're saying, look, hey, we just make these things.
Speaker 12: You know, the companies that design them, the companies that
Speaker 12: sell them, they're the ones that kind of should know
Speaker 12: where they're going. They're the ones that are sort of
Speaker 12: more directly involved. And then maybe it's the computer makers
Speaker 12: who actually take them and then put them in computers
Speaker 12: or cell phones or whatever that So this is, as
Speaker 12: you say, there's a heightened environment of like, look, how
Speaker 12: are these chips getting to China?
Speaker 6: We need to know.
Speaker 12: And this is TSMC saying, hey, it wasn't us.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is TSMC itself has been trying to appease
Speaker 2: the administration more investment into the United States. I've just
Speaker 2: come back from Arizona. Is all about the investment they're
Speaker 2: making in that state, but it's costing.
Speaker 3: Them more in yeah, it is.
Speaker 12: I mean, this is the whole point behind the Chipsack
Speaker 12: was to say, look, we need to make the price
Speaker 12: of doing business in the US of building these giant,
Speaker 12: massively expensive factories equivalent to what it would be to
Speaker 12: make them in Taiwan or make them in South Korea
Speaker 12: or China for that matter. And the delta has always
Speaker 12: been government support. That's the Chipsack. That's what TSMC wants
Speaker 12: more of. But frankly, whether that's absolutely the case, whether
Speaker 12: it can still get the same level of economics, that's
Speaker 12: still a challenge.
Speaker 2: Ian King always brilliant to have you, thank you more
Speaker 2: on a semiconductor sector now I'm in this geopolitical uncertainty
Speaker 2: and welcome back to the show, Michelle geider Kirk Institute
Speaker 2: for Tech Diplomacy at Purdue CEO there.
Speaker 3: Michelle.
Speaker 2: Always great to have your voice, and let's just talk
Speaker 2: about what you're hearing from semiconductor companies at the moment.
Speaker 2: Are we still seeing the administration getting what it wants.
Speaker 13: I think we are seeing a tightening of export controls,
Speaker 13: which has been the trajectory for the past few years,
Speaker 13: and I think it speaks to the strategic nature of
Speaker 13: semiconductors because they're powering consumer technologies and they're also powering
Speaker 13: defense tech at the same time. So if you look
Speaker 13: at American chip companies like Nvidia, like AMD, or allied
Speaker 13: chip companies like TSMC, they have a very strategic role
Speaker 13: to play. They're at the front lines of geopolitical competition,
Speaker 13: and so they are not passive but active players and
Speaker 13: making sure that the US and the free world maintains
Speaker 13: technological leadership. And so these increasing export controls are a
Speaker 13: reflection of that.
Speaker 2: When TSMC puts out an annual report saying.
Speaker 3: We're going to struggle with this, when they're trying to.
Speaker 2: Own the fact that they perhaps don't always understand the
Speaker 2: exact end user. Of course, there was reports that TSMC
Speaker 2: chips ended up in Huawei products.
Speaker 3: How do you rate that acknowledgement from a company.
Speaker 13: Well, I'd say the great opportunity for a company like
Speaker 13: TSMC is the fact that TSMC produces ninety percent of
Speaker 13: the world's most advanced semiconductors, and so if you look
Speaker 13: at the leverage that they have, if they were to
Speaker 13: issue guidance requiring more disclosure, more transparency and understanding downstream
Speaker 13: who the end users are of the chips that they're making,
Speaker 13: I think they would see that their customers would be
Speaker 13: highly responsive to that because of the leadership role that
Speaker 13: they play, and that's an important thing here. Companies can't
Speaker 13: just be passive bystanders, waiting for governments to issue regulations
Speaker 13: and then comply. There's actually a leadership opportunity here for
Speaker 13: companies who are on the ground, who are operating in
Speaker 13: this environment, to play a key role in shaping what
Speaker 13: the disclosures need to look like, so we all make
Speaker 13: sure that these chips don't end up in the hands
Speaker 13: of our adversaries.
Speaker 2: Disclosure is one thing, but designing new types of chips
Speaker 2: to abide by changing rules is another, and Nvidia has
Speaker 2: been trying to do that. Every time the rules have changed,
Speaker 2: they've designed a different type of chip that China is
Speaker 2: allowed access.
Speaker 3: And now the crack down on the H twenty.
Speaker 2: How do you think Jensen Wang has navigated this thus far?
Speaker 13: Well, I think it's worth taking a step back and
Speaker 13: looking at the bigger picture here, which is, if you
Speaker 13: have to modify your product so that a totalitarian customer
Speaker 13: isn't using it to undermine your country's national security, something's wrong.
Speaker 13: So how do you take a look at what the
Speaker 13: overall business strategy is and national security strategy is and
Speaker 13: start to think about what is a long game here?
Speaker 13: And for American chip companies in China, it's not going
Speaker 13: to be a long game because China has declared that
Speaker 13: it wants to be self sufficient in critical technology. Semiconductors
Speaker 13: is one of them in all critical technologies by twenty
Speaker 13: thirty five. And so the clock is ticking on American
Speaker 13: chip companies right now. And whether it is the company
Speaker 13: leaving the market on its own terms, or it's a
Speaker 13: US government issuing new export control regulations, or ultimately China
Speaker 13: creating its own national champions like Huawei and then ousting
Speaker 13: American companies, the opportunities for a business leader to decide
Speaker 13: now whether they want to get out on their own
Speaker 13: terms or have it be dictated by China.
Speaker 3: But then Jensenwang, as the crackdown on.
Speaker 2: H twenties happened, goes to Beijing, is in China reconfirming
Speaker 2: his commitment to the country. How did you assess that
Speaker 2: particular level of diplomacy from the company.
Speaker 13: Well, I think it was equally important that he also
Speaker 13: went to Japan thereafter. And look, China's a significant market
Speaker 13: for Nvidian, for other chip companies. I think it's their
Speaker 13: fourth largest by sales, so I'm not surprising that he
Speaker 13: went there. But at the end of the day, we've
Speaker 13: got to make sure that American companies, not just chip companies,
Speaker 13: but companies and all critical tech sectors are working with
Speaker 13: trusted partners and trusted allies in order to advance our
Speaker 13: collective national and international security. And the fact that he
Speaker 13: was in Japan emphasizing the need for increased energy and resources,
Speaker 13: Japan's been a trusted partner in technology. Those types of conversations,
Speaker 13: that type of tech diplomacy is really important, and you know,
Speaker 13: you see Vice President advances in India today as well.
Speaker 13: Working with democratic partners like that is going to be
Speaker 13: even more better news for US national security.
Speaker 2: When we have the idea though, that necessity is the
Speaker 2: mother of all invention, our and indeed innovation, Michelle, are
Speaker 2: we just pushing China to go and build it themselves
Speaker 2: at a faster rate?
Speaker 13: They're going to do it anyway, So you know, the
Speaker 13: alternative would be, well, let's hand them our critical technologies
Speaker 13: and save them some time. The argument doesn't really stand.
Speaker 13: America's got to be focused on innovating faster and smarter
Speaker 13: and better and being the leader in all critical areas
Speaker 13: of technology and addressing what competitors and adversaries like China
Speaker 13: or Russia or Iran or doing in these sectors. But
Speaker 13: the imperative for the United States is to focus on
Speaker 13: innovation first and make sure we maintain a global leadership position.
Speaker 13: China is going to continue doing that on its own.
Speaker 13: So the more that we focus on winning what we
Speaker 13: do best, which is innovation and enterprise, the better will be.
Speaker 3: Michelle. It's great to have you back. Thank you.
Speaker 2: Michelle Geider at the Crack Institute for Tech Diplomacy now
Speaker 2: coming up. Netflix's record profit is giving investors something to
Speaker 2: cling to amid of all this economic uncertainty and challenges
Speaker 2: for traditional TV and movie businesses.
Speaker 3: More on that.
Speaker 2: Next, this is Bluemot Technology quick check in on Netflix
Speaker 2: shares because they had been holding onto gains and in
Speaker 2: fact one of the only stocks in the green on
Speaker 2: the last that one hundred are up two point eight
Speaker 2: percent after the streaming giant reported.
Speaker 3: A record profit to start the year.
Speaker 2: And I see the company business as resilient amid a
Speaker 2: tougher macro environment. Blubogs luca sure can break it down. First,
Speaker 2: we got the numbers on Thursday evening, and of course
Speaker 2: then the markets went on holiday. So today they react,
Speaker 2: Lucas and they like it.
Speaker 6: They like it a lot.
Speaker 14: I mean, there had been a belief among investors, analysts,
Speaker 14: and I think everyone that Netflix was a company that
Speaker 14: was not particularly at because of the current uncertainty, trade
Speaker 14: war and the like. And it's also just a company
Speaker 14: that continues to operate on all cylinders.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 14: It is excelling, even if there are some people who
Speaker 14: think that it's slowed down in terms of subscribers in
Speaker 14: the first quarter of the year.
Speaker 4: At least in the US and Canada.
Speaker 14: The numbers that it is now reporting revenue and profit
Speaker 14: both look really good. I mean, the thing where Netflix
Speaker 14: has continued to over deliver for investors has been its
Speaker 14: free cash flow and its profit over the last.
Speaker 4: Couple of years.
Speaker 14: It's kind of crazy to think that there was a
Speaker 14: time in which people were worried that they might collapse
Speaker 14: under debt.
Speaker 4: Are never make any money.
Speaker 2: The fact that first quarter earnings are up twenty five percent,
Speaker 2: the fact that they're talking about resiliency in the face
Speaker 2: of potentially.
Speaker 3: Weakened consumer lucas.
Speaker 2: Are they continuing, though, to double down on the commitment
Speaker 2: to produce abroad, to continue to roll out when new movies,
Speaker 2: new content.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean that.
Speaker 14: They actually had a whole section in their letter to
Speaker 14: shareholders last week talking about the investment they're making in
Speaker 14: international production. I think they said that they're now producing
Speaker 14: in something like fifty countries.
Speaker 4: It might be even even north of that.
Speaker 14: You know, they have started to increase their programming budget
Speaker 14: after it being flat for a couple of years.
Speaker 4: I think they're up to eighteen billion dollars a year.
Speaker 14: They still produce and release more programming than any streaming
Speaker 14: service by a mile, and yeah, they see an opportunity.
Speaker 14: I mean, if people do get more cost conscious and
Speaker 14: look to cut their streaming services, every service would experience
Speaker 14: a higher cancelation rate what's known in the industry as churn.
Speaker 14: But Netflix has the industry best and I think would
Speaker 14: continue to because of all that you get for it. Right,
Speaker 14: Whereas there are other services that if you only watch
Speaker 14: one or two shows you might say, I can cut
Speaker 14: this for a month, I think it's a lot harder
Speaker 14: for the average person to cut Netflix.
Speaker 2: Luka sure on all things Arnings, Thanks so much for that,
Speaker 2: And let's just stick a little bit longer with Netflix.
Speaker 3: Bring in Rich Greenfield of light Shed.
Speaker 2: You really pointed to the fact that they're producing content
Speaker 2: in so many countries.
Speaker 3: Does that help with the weakening dollar?
Speaker 15: I mean, look, I think first of all, you know,
Speaker 15: having pretuction resources all over the world, I mean, more
Speaker 15: than anything else, Carolyn, it makes it cheaper to make content.
Speaker 15: You know, the cost of making an hour drama in
Speaker 15: the US, I mean you can run, you know, you
Speaker 15: look at something like you know, take a Yellowstone or
Speaker 15: an eighteen eighty three like those can cost twenty five
Speaker 15: plus million dollars an episode. When you're producing overseas, you're
Speaker 15: taking advantage of generally far lower cost production environments, but
Speaker 15: you're also creating content that caters very much to local tastes.
Speaker 15: And so what Netflix has been really unique about is
Speaker 15: not just creating great content in the US it's exported
Speaker 15: around the world, but.
Speaker 10: Creating great content all around the world.
Speaker 15: I mean, whether it's a squid game or a loop
Speaker 15: pen in France, like really figuring out how to produce
Speaker 15: at scale all around the world. And I think that's
Speaker 15: becoming an increasing advantage versus the peer set. Nobody else
Speaker 15: is producing the way Netflix is producing around the world,
Speaker 15: and I think it's becoming a bigger and bigger advantage,
Speaker 15: especially as you have you know, you just listen to
Speaker 15: Lucas talk about, you know, sort of the pressure that
Speaker 15: everyone's going to be facing from a weakening economy. You know,
Speaker 15: if you think about the way a lot of these
Speaker 15: big media companies, legacy media companies are pulling back on
Speaker 15: their spending, really retrenching, focusing on just their top projects,
Speaker 15: it's giving Netflix a greater advantage versus the peer set.
Speaker 2: And interestingly, they're catering to more than seven hundred million
Speaker 2: uses worldwide. They get Korean viewers for squid games, but
Speaker 2: also it becomes an international hit too.
Speaker 3: Is that going to be the recipe for the future.
Speaker 15: Look, you know, there's no perfect formula for how you
Speaker 15: get a hit, but I will say when you look
Speaker 15: at Netflix, whether it's a squid game from Korea, look
Speaker 15: at adolescents, it's a you know, four episode, it's a
Speaker 15: few hours of content, it's a global sensation out of
Speaker 15: the UK. You need to take shots on goal to
Speaker 15: have successes. I mean there's no doubt, you know, the
Speaker 15: successes overall. I'd say, you know, huge pieces of content
Speaker 15: are fewer and further between now for everybody.
Speaker 10: But you need to take shots on goal.
Speaker 15: And Netflix is taking more shots on goal by a
Speaker 15: pretty wide margin than everybody else. And I think that
Speaker 15: has sort of been the key advantage is nobody is
Speaker 15: spending on this much content the way Netflix is, and.
Speaker 10: You can see it.
Speaker 15: I mean every quarter, basically, certainly every six months, it
Speaker 15: feels like there's one big show that sort of breaks
Speaker 15: out on Netflix. The other services are just struggling to
Speaker 15: make really big hits, and part of it is they
Speaker 15: don't have enough users, Like they don't have enough daily engagement.
Speaker 15: Netflix wants you on Netflix every single day, and so
Speaker 15: there's always something new bringing.
Speaker 10: You back to the service.
Speaker 15: And again that point of making it so you have
Speaker 15: reason a to pay more and be not to churn
Speaker 15: rich shots on goal?
Speaker 3: Now, tell me have the shots been on goal when.
Speaker 2: It comes to live content, Because yes, from a grand perspective,
Speaker 2: everyone's loving ww law, but sometimes just the technology hasn't
Speaker 2: been there to service the amountious scale of demand to
Speaker 2: watch all at the same time.
Speaker 15: Look, there's no doubt that live streaming of content with
Speaker 15: mass audiences is not an exact science.
Speaker 10: You saw that with the Tyson fight, the Tyson Paul
Speaker 10: fight last year.
Speaker 15: I think if you were to look at, you know,
Speaker 15: the NFL on Christmas Day, it worked incredibly well.
Speaker 10: The WWE has not had problems. But I mean, look,
Speaker 10: you've seen YouTube TV and Hulu Live.
Speaker 15: Those things have certainly gone out at you know, at
Speaker 15: specific moments. You've seen every one of these services have
Speaker 15: problems at scale.
Speaker 10: Live streaming is hard.
Speaker 15: I think Netflix has learned a tremendous amount over the
Speaker 15: last year and is getting better and better at it.
Speaker 15: But I don't think anybody who is in the live
Speaker 15: sports streaming where there is massive instantaneous demand. I don't
Speaker 15: think you're ever going to see perfection. It's the Internet.
Speaker 15: It is fallible, it has problems. But I do think
Speaker 15: that Netflix is building up very strong muscle skills in
Speaker 15: understanding how to do it.
Speaker 10: But I don't.
Speaker 15: But I also don't think, Carolyn, I don't think sports
Speaker 15: is ever going to be the core of Netflix. I
Speaker 15: think they really see it as a global entertainment service
Speaker 15: where sports has a place and they live has a place,
Speaker 15: especially as they build out the advertising side of the equation.
Speaker 15: But I'd be surprised if sports became critical the way
Speaker 15: sports is critical to a peacock, or critical obviously to
Speaker 15: an ESPN.
Speaker 10: I don't think sports is going to be the winner.
Speaker 15: Lose for Netflix anytime over the course of the next
Speaker 15: five plus years.
Speaker 3: What becomes the win for the shares right now?
Speaker 2: Rich Because we're up, as we can see on the screen,
Speaker 2: more than eleven percent over the course of year to date,
Speaker 2: we're up close to record highs for the stock in
Speaker 2: this macro environment.
Speaker 3: Are we going to be able to juce any further?
Speaker 15: Look, the big growth from here it really comes from
Speaker 15: two things. I mean, obviously, having pricing power in the US.
Speaker 15: There's no doubt that whether that's from driving the subscription
Speaker 15: price higher or whether it's actually being able to put
Speaker 15: the right ad to the right person at the right
Speaker 15: time and driving the advertising revenue from the increasingly large
Speaker 15: base of advertising supported subscribers on the platform. But the
Speaker 15: real gwin, Carolyn, as you look at over the next
Speaker 15: five years, is going to be Asia.
Speaker 10: You know, there's still relatively small.
Speaker 15: They' stopped proporting subscriber numbers, but we know that the
Speaker 15: apecific numbers are still small. When you look at the scale,
Speaker 15: you know they could ten x the size of their
Speaker 15: subscriber base in Asia and still not be fully penetrated.
Speaker 15: So there is massive room to run and I think
Speaker 15: the next the story over the next five to ten
Speaker 15: years is going to be how they execute and build
Speaker 15: in Asia the way they've been successful in the US,
Speaker 15: Latin America and Europe.
Speaker 2: Rich, so it's great to check in with you. Thanks
Speaker 2: so much, Rich. Greenfields of Light shed on all things Netflix, Chat,
Speaker 2: what arena, the crowdsourced site, ranking AI models, but a
Speaker 2: sufficient becoming a company betting there's big business in benchmarking
Speaker 2: for more. Blommerg's Rachel Metz joins us now and before
Speaker 2: this has been sort of the passion project of academics,
Speaker 2: and now it's becoming formal.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 16: I mean, this was the project formed by academics at
Speaker 16: EC Berkeley, and they had been working on this. It
Speaker 16: had got super popular. Companies use it to test new
Speaker 16: and unreleased models. A lot of people use it to
Speaker 16: try out the latest and hopefully greatest models, and.
Speaker 17: They wanted to make it more than just an academic project.
Speaker 16: They wanted to scale up. To do that, you need
Speaker 16: to get money. To do that, you often need to
Speaker 16: be a company. So yeah, it's growing up in a sense.
Speaker 2: Growing up, and more and more people are using it.
Speaker 2: You've got on this graphic two p eight million user votes.
Speaker 2: How are people approaching it and making the most of
Speaker 2: the well the recommendations that it offers.
Speaker 16: So people I think who are individuals are using it
Speaker 16: to try things out, get a sense of what they.
Speaker 17: Like what they don't. I mean, really this is sort
Speaker 17: of vibe spaced ranking.
Speaker 16: I guess I would say one of the key things
Speaker 16: that you can do on this website is try two
Speaker 16: different chatbots.
Speaker 17: You are not knowing what they are.
Speaker 16: You type in a prompt and then you rate which
Speaker 16: answer you like better, and based on that the chatbots
Speaker 16: will go up or they will go down on the
Speaker 16: leaderboard there. I think companies increasingly see this as a
Speaker 16: really important marker of how well users like their models,
Speaker 16: and so that could be really valuable to them a
Speaker 16: kind of data. Typically, this data is actually really hard
Speaker 16: for companies to get on their own, so having it
Speaker 16: be available publicly is quite useful open ai.
Speaker 2: I think GPT four oh it released it on the
Speaker 2: arena before it went out more broadly.
Speaker 16: Right, So what some companies are doing is they will
Speaker 16: put models on there and they'll have code names, so
Speaker 16: you won't know exactly what they are.
Speaker 17: Perhaps, I mean, you might be able to guess pretty well.
Speaker 16: I mean there have been some that I've seen on
Speaker 16: there that I'm like, I know where you're coming from.
Speaker 17: But yeah, it's really increasingly valuable and open.
Speaker 16: Ai has done this a number of times, put up
Speaker 16: models that are unreleased and people can try them out.
Speaker 16: They might not know where they're coming from, but they
Speaker 16: might be from open ai.
Speaker 2: And just tell us about the people that you see
Speaker 2: Berkeley that are behind this, and whether they become the
Speaker 2: executives and now what will be a company.
Speaker 3: A formal one.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 16: So this was a the project out of Jan Stouyker's
Speaker 16: Sky Computing Lab at UC Berkeley, and a bunch of
Speaker 16: graduate students worked on it and undergraduate students helped with
Speaker 16: it as well. And a number of the graduate students
Speaker 16: along with Yan are going to be the co founders
Speaker 16: of it.
Speaker 17: And I think they're still trying to figure.
Speaker 16: Out who's going to have what role in the company,
Speaker 16: but yeah, some of them will have sea level titles.
Speaker 2: Rachel Mattz, it's a great story. Thanks for bringing it
Speaker 2: to us on all things general to AI. And that
Speaker 2: does it for this edition of BlueBag Technology. Let's just
Speaker 2: keep our eyes on these markets though, because it is
Speaker 2: once again another day down day for the nastat one hundred,
Speaker 2: off by more than three percent. Now we're hitting session lows.
Speaker 2: Nearly every stock is in the red. TESA in particular,
Speaker 2: off by more than seven percent. Earnings coming out Tuesday, remember,
Speaker 2: are thick and faster with earnings throughout the week. We
Speaker 2: got Alphabet coming Thursday, We've got Texas Instruments, We've got
Speaker 2: Intel IBM. Much to be digested from these CEOs and
Speaker 2: executives but Tesla. On the downside, we've got bitcoin up
Speaker 2: though three point four percent, eighty eight thousand, hitting the
Speaker 2: high since March. This as we see a move into
Speaker 2: havens such as gold. Maybe digital gold is being seen
Speaker 2: as the haven choice when it comes to bitcoin. And
Speaker 2: indeed you're seeing money move into short term treasury, so
Speaker 2: the two year gets to the bid.
Speaker 3: The ten year is still being sold off.
Speaker 2: But do check out of Bloomberg Technology podcasts as well.
Speaker 3: You can find it on the terminal as well as
Speaker 3: online on Apple, Spotify, and iHeart. From New York, this
Speaker 3: is Blue Beg Technology