1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing couples, finances and weathering financial 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: storms with Farnie to Rabbi. Yeah, Jel. Our guests today 4 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: is personal finance expert Farnuche to Rabbi, money was tight 5 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: when she was growing up, but it was always something 6 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,559 Speaker 1: that she and her family talked about. Next Farnie, she 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:38,200 Speaker 1: found herself living in New York City at the age 8 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: of twenty two with over in debt, but it was 9 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: through the process of climbing out of that debt that 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: she realized her desire to help others with their money. 11 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: And so she's done it all, from reporting for Money 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,639 Speaker 1: magazine to hosting her own podcast to writing books. She's 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: written multiple books, including psych Yourself Rich, and her latest bestseller, 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: which is When She Makes More. So we are decided 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: to talk with our new about all things related to money, 16 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: but in particular How Personal Finance. It's so much more 17 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: than just understanding the nuts and bolts of money. So 18 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: Farnus thanks so much for joining us on the podcast today. 19 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 1: Hi guys, thanks so much. I'm so excited to be here. 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: How are you. We're awesome, pretty good all things considered. 21 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 1: I mean we're drinking a beer, of course, so that 22 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,400 Speaker 1: miss everything better. And by the way, far News, we 23 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: drink a beer on every episode. The beer that we're 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 1: having today is called Petite Sour Raspberries by Crooked Dave 25 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: is this awesome brewery out of Colorado. But we prioritize 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 1: drinking awesome craft beer every episode because it's something we 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: enjoy and we kind of have. That's like our splurge 28 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: in here and now while we're also trying to save 29 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: and invest well for the future. So our first question 30 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 1: to everyone is always what's your explored What's the thing 31 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 1: you spend a little bit more on right now while 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: you're also trying to do well saving and investing for 33 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: the future. Well normally, and I use air quotes um 34 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: because I'm might. I feel like our habits are changing 35 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: right now in this shelter at home situation. So but 36 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: normally you could find me splurging on This is um 37 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 1: for the ladies. Maybe some men do this too. Blowouts. 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: So hair blowouts. You can dry your own hair at home, 39 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: and you can use your own hand nandy hair dryer. 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,239 Speaker 1: But I like to occasionally go and have someone else 41 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: professionally blow drying my hair. And it is a splurge, 42 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: but it's also a really great convenience because, um, you know, 43 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: I have two small kids and a lot of my 44 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: work is about showing up and being on camera or 45 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: going into meetings. And when I get my hair professionally 46 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: done like that, it's not like I'm doing like a 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 1: up due for a wedding. It's just a standard like 48 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: drying my hair, but with like a super Max blow 49 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: dryer and a little bit of product keeps my hair 50 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 1: in presentable mode for a few days at least. And 51 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: so um, yeah, I mean you can. You could stretch 52 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 1: it for as long as like five days, like where 53 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: a shower cap when you take a shower. And so 54 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 1: ladies they under stand me, like you guys might be 55 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 1: like right over my head, trust you on this. I 56 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: think she's going to say this, but it is. It is, 57 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: And it's a splurge because it could be as much 58 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: as like fifty dollars a pop every time I do it, 59 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: and there have been days and weeks where I go 60 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,760 Speaker 1: quite frequently. Um, but I love it and I cannot wait. 61 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: My girlfriends and I were talking the other night about 62 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: how like they're like, okay, okay, we know this isn't 63 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: like a huge problem, but our hair is a mess 64 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: right now. And my sister in law is a hairdresser. 65 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: She has her own salon, and of course now she's 66 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: not working, but she anticipates working like twenty four hours 67 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: a day, seventies a week once this quarantine is lifted. 68 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: That pent up demand seriously just a kind of rebound. 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: And well that's one way too that you really can 70 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: regain some of that lost some of that lost income, 71 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: because that's a service that because I have not been 72 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: able to take part of. Well, plus, you can write 73 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: that off as a business expense, I'm sure to a 74 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: certain instance, right, I do use it on my business 75 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: credit card. Yeah, dr Accounting, I'm not sure. I hope 76 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: the rest doesn't listen to this podcast, but yeah, I'm 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: sure they don't. Yeah, Fronty, you know, like as many 78 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 1: of us have been sheltering a place and basically we're Homebown. 79 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: You know, you're up there in Brooklyn. What steps have 80 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: you taken to ensure that your mental health isn't a 81 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: good place? You know, like have you been able to 82 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: maintain relationships? You know, your friendships in your community as well. 83 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: It's definitely a conscious effort because I think it's very 84 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: easy to get into slump and into a slumber where 85 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: you really don't want to face the world, and it's 86 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:25,840 Speaker 1: easy to just kind of go down that rabbit hole 87 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: of watching the news and being on Twitter. And but 88 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: I think part of what my life consists of right now, 89 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: a lot of it is being a mom to two 90 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 1: young children who need me. So that's I don't really 91 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,359 Speaker 1: have an opportunity or an excuse to sort of like 92 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: lay low. I have to be up and running for them. 93 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: And with little kids, I think, or any size kids, 94 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: I think it's important to maintain routine and structure. That's 95 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: what the parenting experts tell me. So we try to 96 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: stick to a routine every day, whether that's um, you know, 97 00:04:57,760 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: even just like getting up and making our beds and 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: cleaning up. And my son has virtual school in the 99 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 1: mornings and we have his assignments. He's five and a 100 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: half years old. You know, they're eating constantly, So I 101 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: find myself just like in the kitchen a lot. But 102 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: as far as my own personal socialization, we have to 103 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: be proactive about it. My girlfriends and I tonight, actually 104 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: we're going to be doing a virtual happy hour. We do. 105 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 1: We do hangouts, virtual hangouts with our family. We're you know, 106 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 1: we're using the phone a lot more and not just texting. 107 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: We are a face timing and calling. And I think 108 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: that's one of the nice things that this has encouraged 109 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: us to do, which is to stay connected and not 110 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: just these you know, three sentence there, three word texts, 111 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: but actually spending hours on the phone with loved ones, 112 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: checking in on one another. We try to do walks 113 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: when the weather is nice and it's getting warmer. The 114 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: kids definitely need that, and so do with the adults 115 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: in the family. So we're we're you know, but we 116 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: all were a little nervous every time we walk outside. 117 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: And but we I feel like we're just practicing safety 118 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: measures and we're masks and washing our hands and not 119 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: touching our face. And I think, once this is all subsides, 120 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 1: I think that is the one thing that we're all 121 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 1: going to have a little bit of PTSD over right, 122 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: is like sure, not getting too close, Which I don't 123 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, 124 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: but it is what it is. Yeah, it's definitely gonna 125 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: have some some long lasting effects. And you know, we 126 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: are in the midst of health crisis that has specifically 127 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: lead to an economic crisis in our country. Far news, 128 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about ten years ago because 129 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: you you actually got laid off during the Great Recession 130 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand nine. So you know, for a lot 131 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,599 Speaker 1: of people who are experiencing difficulty, you know, a job instability, 132 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: or have been laid off already. You know, there are 133 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 1: some great things in place to help those people from 134 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,440 Speaker 1: the federal government in the relief bill. But what effect 135 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: specifically did getting laid off a decade ago did that 136 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: have on you? Well, it was a real wake up call, 137 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what to realize how insecure your employment is. 138 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,239 Speaker 1: I was worked being full time for a news station 139 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: or news outlet and a media site, I should say, 140 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: and you know, to be honest for a while, for 141 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: for the for six months there I the most recent 142 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: six months before I got laid off, I was thinking 143 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: about leaving because I had a side hustle. I had 144 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: a book, and I was doing a little bit of 145 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: speaking and things like that, and I was sort of 146 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: imagining life as an independent contractor and a solo preneur, 147 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: but very nervous about leaving the comforts the quote unquote 148 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: comforts of a nine to five with the health insurance 149 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: and the four one K to deposits and even things 150 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: like you know, they're paying for my cell phone, and 151 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: the supply closet was really great, like free pens, free printing, 152 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 1: free all the things, sharpies, highlighters, legal pads. Oh my gosh. 153 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: But when I got laid off, it was a real, 154 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: I guess I said, an eye opening experience, and it 155 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: was scary, and I kind of feel like I went 156 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: through all the stages of grief, you know, denial and 157 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: then acceptance, ultimate lee. But it was a blessing in 158 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: disguise really because it almost forced me out of necessity 159 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: to figure out my next steps. The question, the crossroad 160 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: that I was at that point was do I try 161 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: to go back into the workforce, the traditional workforce, and 162 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: try to find something that was comparable to what I 163 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: was doing. Reality was those jobs weren't really around anymore. 164 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: My company laid me off as part of a company 165 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: wide layoff, right they let go ten percent of their staff, 166 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 1: and so the media world at that point was shrinking, 167 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: so there wasn't really a good likelihood of going back 168 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: into a similar job, similar salary, And so I was 169 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: faced with what do I do next? And I think 170 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: I was again just out of necessity, realizing I have 171 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: to just kind of drill down and make this whole 172 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: side hustle thing a full time hustle, and um, I 173 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 1: did essentially started a business in the recession. I will 174 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:59,079 Speaker 1: say that when economics are not healthy, that actually is 175 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 1: an opportunity. Are people who want to start businesses to 176 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: find new opportunities. The barriers to entry are lower rent 177 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: is lower supply costs or lower hiring talent is lower, 178 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: is not as expensive, and so if you're looking to 179 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: start a business and you have some savings, recession is 180 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: actually a great time to do it in some ways. 181 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: And it's been um eleven years and I've never gone 182 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: back to having that full time, benefits paying job, and 183 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: I'm so thankful it was again a blessing in disguise. 184 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: I will say that the one thing that helped me 185 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: be able to afford that route, as opposed to saying okay, 186 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: we'll alters take any job, whatever job, even if it's 187 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: a pay cut, was having savings. And I'm finding that 188 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: so many of us now in this this next cycle, 189 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,439 Speaker 1: are realizing just how important having savings is. That said, 190 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,680 Speaker 1: we have so many benefits now from the federal government 191 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 1: in reaction to the COVID nineteen and all of the 192 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: shutdowns that have happened, that we're not available to main street. 193 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,719 Speaker 1: Back in twenty oh nine, right, we didn't have an 194 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,520 Speaker 1: extension of unemployment benefits. We didn't have this sort of 195 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: reassurance that you don't have to pay your rent or 196 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: your mortgage this month or for the next few months 197 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: and just talk to your mortgage company and they'll probably 198 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: give you some sort of deferment or you know that 199 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,719 Speaker 1: that really wasn't a plausible thing back then. Um, a 200 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: lot of people were losing their homes. So I think 201 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: that that's helpful now things that we didn't have during 202 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: the recession, But some things are still true. You need that, 203 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: you know, that cash as queen king, you know right 204 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: now and it always is. But this is when we're 205 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 1: really realizing just how much having an emergency account is 206 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: a matter of life or death, or survival or not surviving. Yeah, 207 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: an emergency fund, right, and then also just that increased 208 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 1: ability to have a soft landing pad thanks to thanks 209 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: to the recent you know, government action, I think can 210 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: help a lot of people maybe have a little more 211 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: confidence to launch something now, even though it still feels 212 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:04,600 Speaker 1: like a tumultuous time to actually do it. This gives 213 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:07,559 Speaker 1: people maybe a little bit more solid footing actually launch 214 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 1: out there. Right, interest rates are far lower than they 215 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: have been in a while. I mean, if you have 216 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: always been in the mindset of starting a business or 217 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: buying a home, and you have your financial ducks in 218 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 1: a row, you have employment, you have savings, and you've 219 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: just been kind of on the fence, is not sure 220 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 1: when to strike. Now is a great time if you're 221 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: looking to finance your way through it. And so you 222 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: know that's not going to apply to everybody, but I 223 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: think that for those of us who have been in 224 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: that mindset and now it's a really great time to 225 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: kind of roll up our sleeves and actually go after it. Yeah, 226 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: So a lot of this kind of stems from just 227 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: having maybe the right mindset, right, and so like you're 228 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: you're kind of pointing out all these different ways at 229 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,679 Speaker 1: the barrier to entry of maybe starting your own your 230 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:51,719 Speaker 1: own side hustle or maybe taking your side hustle to 231 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: the next level. How else can our listeners approach this 232 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: problem right at this this crisis, and how can they 233 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: view it as instead of a setback, as an opportunity. Yes, 234 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: So first I want to let everyone know, like there's 235 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: so many people who have lost their jobs to no 236 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: fault of their own in this in this crisis. And 237 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: what we'll look back and say, this is when the 238 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: recession happens. So but we'll call it a recession now. 239 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: And I just want to remind everybody that because so 240 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 1: often guys are employment is tied to our sense of 241 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,200 Speaker 1: self worth. Right, we lose our job. Has happened to me? 242 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: You lose your job and you sort of feel like 243 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 1: I'm worthless, I have no I have no purpose in life. 244 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 1: You know what is what is the meaning of life? 245 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: What is my role in life? And I and I 246 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: want to say, you know, don't have that pitty party. 247 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: This is not your fault, this is not personal And 248 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: what is still true about you despite the fact that 249 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: your job doesn't exist, Your skills still exists, your experiences 250 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: still exists, your education still exists, your network still exists. 251 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,320 Speaker 1: So remember that, and now you have an opportunity to 252 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: go back and kind of go through that inventory of 253 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: all the things that I just mentioned about your skills, 254 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: your education, your network, your experiences. How can you pivot 255 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: or how can you translate all of that into the 256 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 1: new normal, the new economy. The reality is a lot 257 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: of companies are thriving right now. People are asking me 258 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: on my show is it inappropriate to ask my boss 259 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: for a raise? And I go, if you still have 260 00:13:12,559 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: a job and your company has not downsized or cut 261 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: back and is growing in this economy, because that's just 262 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: the reality. When we have a recession, some businesses contract, 263 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: others grow because it's what's happening is just a shift 264 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: of needs and supply and demand. And the companies that 265 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: are successful right now and they are out there. If 266 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 1: you're working for one of them, or if you find 267 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: yourself potentially being able to work for one of them 268 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,680 Speaker 1: because of all the things that you have going for you, 269 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: that's that's great. And I think that's where we need 270 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,079 Speaker 1: to shift the mind, as opposed to dwelling on what 271 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: we've lost, focus on where the growth is and where 272 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: you can apply yourself and plug yourself into that growth market. 273 00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: Um So, as an example, you know, we have a 274 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 1: lot of teachers or per Orman's artists or um gosh, 275 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: you know, people who worked in events who don't have jobs. 276 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: They don't have places to go to do their work, 277 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,679 Speaker 1: but that doesn't mean that they don't have an ability 278 00:14:12,720 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: to still be to apply their skills in this market. 279 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: That's how you're going to expand your life right now, 280 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: as opposed to keep status quo or feel like you're 281 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,480 Speaker 1: taking a step in the opposite direction. Yeah, that's so good. 282 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: I think it's great to that. Like I mean, at 283 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 1: the beginning there you mentioned how this one event doesn't 284 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: define who you are as a person. You know, this 285 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: is one action that has happened, it's happening to a 286 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: lot of people in our economy. But like you said, 287 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: focusing on yourself the skills that you have. I mean, 288 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: it's it's probably even just a great time even to 289 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: double down on yourself because you know that those are 290 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: the skills that you can bring. I think that's yeah, 291 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 1: I think that's great advice. It's how you react to 292 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 1: this right that's going to define you. And that's the 293 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 1: truth of it. We've our world has has seen much worse, 294 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: believe it or not, And I believe so much in 295 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: the human race, and we have this proven ability to 296 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: to to pivot, to reinvent, to transition. That's like what 297 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: we're known for is the human race, right we can 298 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: We're always transforming, we're always revolutionizing, and so remember that 299 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: you have the ability to get on the other side 300 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: of this more successful. Yeah, for sure, I completely agree. 301 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: And that's some great advice on kind of what we're 302 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: currently dealing with furniture. You've got some great overall advice 303 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: too about couples and money and how how couple should 304 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: be handling money together. We kind of want to get 305 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: into some of that territory and we'll start talking about 306 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: that right after the break. Al Chel, we're back from 307 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: the break. We're talking with Farnus to Robbie and you know, furniture. 308 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: We can't wait to talk about income, gender roles and 309 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: how all that affects our relationships. First though, in your 310 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: book Psych Yourself Rich, one of the first things that 311 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: you tackle is defining what you know quote unquote rich, 312 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 1: what that looks like to you, like to us as individuals, 313 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 1: because it varies from person to person. Can you talk 314 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: something about why this is so important? Yes, I think 315 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: it's really important to create your own personal definition of rich. 316 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: So often we're influenced by society, our culture, family, external 317 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: influences that make us feel as though there is only 318 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: one way to achieve that sense of being rich or 319 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: that feeling or that status. And I think that's where 320 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: a lot of misguidance happens. It's where a lot of 321 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: um sort of feeling unfulfilled happens. We kind of follow 322 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: other people's guide books and and then at the end 323 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: of the day it doesn't feel right to us, it 324 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: doesn't sit right with us or align with us. So 325 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: it's a very foundational exercise to really before you go 326 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: about looking at your numbers, tackling your budget, asking for 327 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: the raise, going out for the side hustle, thinking about what, 328 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: at the end of the day will make you feel 329 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 1: rich and not so much the numbers part side of it, like, oh, 330 00:17:02,960 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: I need to make this much money, But what does 331 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: that life actually look like to you? How does it 332 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: feel for something? And it's this, I mean you can 333 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 1: imagine like everyone's going to have their own definition. You, 334 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: Joe have your own definition, Matt, me and I like 335 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: we all have our own version of this, and Joe 336 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: has his own definition and me and for news and 337 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: her family, we have a different definitionne looks like private airplanes. Fine, okay, 338 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 1: private airplanes. We're gonna go get our blowouts here. Yeah. So, 339 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,679 Speaker 1: as you developed this theory of what is rich to you, 340 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 1: I think it's important to think about, yes, some of 341 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: the material things, but also what is the feeling that 342 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: you want your money to provide you? When I was 343 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: working with a financial advisor, um, when my husband I 344 00:17:46,320 --> 00:17:49,399 Speaker 1: first got married, we worked with a financial advisor. Highly 345 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: recommend this. We don't work with her anymore, not because 346 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 1: she wasn't any good, but because we sort of felt 347 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,159 Speaker 1: that we got what we needed from that relationship. And 348 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: now he and I have an understanding of how to 349 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: manage our money healthily, and perhaps later we'll work with 350 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: her again. But I feel like in certain stages it 351 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,399 Speaker 1: helps to work with the professional. And one of the 352 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: very first questions she asked each of us was how 353 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: do you want your money to make you feel? And 354 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: no one had really asked it asset of me, at 355 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: least not that way before, And I immediately knew what 356 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:22,640 Speaker 1: to tell her, which was a good news. I guess 357 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,600 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, even though you've never heard of 358 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 1: a question. Sometimes you just know how to answer it, 359 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: and which was I just want to be able to 360 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: go to sleep at night, not worrying about money. Is 361 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,919 Speaker 1: that so much to ask for? You know? And and 362 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 1: she got me, She was like, I get it. So 363 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: you want security, and so what does that mean? You know, 364 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 1: it's we got to work on that first. And that's 365 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: that to me? Does feel rich to know that if 366 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: I lose my job tomorrow, I don't have to make 367 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: some quick knee jerk reaction and do something that I 368 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 1: don't really want to do but I feel like I 369 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:57,399 Speaker 1: have to do to survive. Also like knowing that I 370 00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: have life insurance and a will and things like that. 371 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 1: So it's not sexy stuff, but it's sort of the 372 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: nuts and bolts of feeling secure. And beyond that, it's like, okay, well, 373 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: what kind of lifestyle do you want? Do you? Is 374 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 1: rich necessarily always flying first class? Or you don't care 375 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: so much about that. What's important to you? Is travel 376 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: important to you? Is you know, living in a home 377 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,240 Speaker 1: in a good school district important to you? You know? 378 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: I think again that's all very personal and so prioritizing 379 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: those things, understanding the order of those aspects of life 380 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: in your lifestyle very important, and of course what do 381 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: those things cost so that you can go back and 382 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: actually then do the math and reverse engineer those things 383 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,720 Speaker 1: as our listeners, as we as individuals kind of figure 384 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 1: out what our definition of riches. Well, it's going to 385 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: take a different mindset and some discipline to actually help 386 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,160 Speaker 1: us get to that point. Right. So in your book, 387 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: you talked to a lot of experts about the role 388 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: that emotion plays and how we tackle our money, and 389 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: I feel like that our emotions can be a huge 390 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,719 Speaker 1: factor in derailing us in our efforts. Yeah. So, so 391 00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: what's what did you find out about the role that 392 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 1: emotions play in how we handle our money? Yeah? So, 393 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: I'll preface by saying that this books, like Yourself Rich, 394 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: was born out of my personal experience working on a 395 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: show called Bank of Mom and Dad for with BBC. 396 00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: This was, oh gosh, like I was actually during the recession, 397 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 1: and the show was really about me going in and 398 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: helping everyday people, mostly young women, with their money challenges. 399 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: These women typically had a lot of debt, lack of income, 400 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: problems with savings, and I thought that my job was 401 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: just gonna be to come in, show them the budget, 402 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: make it really straightforward and be off. But what happened 403 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 1: more often than not was them breaking down, having a 404 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: you know, a cry fest, talking about their parents, talking 405 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: about their insecurities. And I realized, okay, well, so this 406 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the money actually, right, this 407 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: is all about our emotions, our own personal mental roadblocks, 408 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: and then we're applying all of that to the money 409 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: management part. And so that's where things get really crazy. 410 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: With the money stuff. It's not that we don't understand 411 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: one plus one is two, or that we should pay 412 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 1: more than just the minimum on our credit cards, or 413 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: that debt is. We get all that like we we 414 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 1: get all of that. We're intelligent humans. We understand it 415 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,439 Speaker 1: doesn't require a lot of intelligence, like you just know 416 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: it's basic math half the time. But what must yeah, right, 417 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: like debt is not the best thing in the world. 418 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: We should spend less than you make. But what was 419 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: making it very challenging often was our emotional setbacks, and 420 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: sometimes are the way that our brains are hardwired, where 421 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: we sometimes don't see things rationally. We're very irrational as humans. 422 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: And so again this this wasn't like I didn't like 423 00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: crack a code here. This was just me basically experiencing 424 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,399 Speaker 1: what a lot of behavioral economists had one Nobel Prizes discovering, 425 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 1: which is that as humans we tend to be extremely 426 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: irrational when it comes to managing our money. This was 427 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: groundbreaking stuff that um, you know, people like Daniel Kaneman 428 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: and others who had realized because for so long we 429 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: thought that the markets are irrational, that investors are rational, 430 00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 1: that the numbers are black and white, what's like, what's there, 431 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: what's what's more to it? But it's actually more complicated 432 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: and complex. And so that kind of led to the book, 433 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: which was my way of giving people a very handy, 434 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: practical guide to first recognizing that money can be very emotional, 435 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: but you're not alone, and here's how we can work 436 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: on it. And the first step is we talked about 437 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: kind of understanding what rich means to you. But then 438 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 1: the rest of the work is really in realizing that 439 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: you have these money stories that you grew up with, 440 00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: these roadblocks, these mindset traps that you are could be 441 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: conscious or unconscious, that you necessarily are applying to your 442 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: financial life. And the first step is really an understanding 443 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: what those stories are it's a little bit of therapy, 444 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: I guess, but you don't have to actually hire a therapist. 445 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 1: It's like understanding your money story. How did you grow 446 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: up around money? What did your parents tell you about money? 447 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,239 Speaker 1: What would it's society teach you about money? What are 448 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 1: those things that you're holding onto? Good? Bad? And then oh, 449 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: my gosh, finally recognizing that lens through which you see 450 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,959 Speaker 1: your financial life and that awareness is what kind of 451 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,760 Speaker 1: helps us navigate things. And um, I'm not saying that 452 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: having emotions is bad, it's actually great, but harnessing it, 453 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: understanding it, being able to recognize when you're making in 454 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: a rational decision is really the trick. And it just 455 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,359 Speaker 1: requires a heightened consciousness. And that's kind of what the 456 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: book talks about. Yeah, you're you're talking about awareness and 457 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: these kind of some of these different like mental roadblocks, 458 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: these barriers, like what's a common exam pole that you 459 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: see in a lot of individuals when it comes to 460 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: maybe a disconnect between them and their money or you know, 461 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: and how they view their money. Well, I think there's 462 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: a lot of group think when it comes to money. 463 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: This is something that the economists discovered where we have 464 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,119 Speaker 1: this sort of follow the herd mentality in this week. 465 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: For example, during the housing boom of two thousand to 466 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:25,280 Speaker 1: two thousand eight, where everybody and their cat was buying 467 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:30,000 Speaker 1: a house, and it was this message also that we 468 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,680 Speaker 1: got from all directions that buying a home is the 469 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: American dream. Everyone is entitled to being a homeowner. It's 470 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 1: so cheap to become a homeowner. Everyone should do it. 471 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: It's what's going to build wealth. And so everybody from 472 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: a minimum wage earning server in Denver to you know, 473 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: a grandmother in Boston, Massachusetts and everyone in between was 474 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: applying for a mortgage and getting them pretty quickly, buying 475 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: these homes that were then, of course we learned, completely overvalued, 476 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: and and there was more to it too, but like 477 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: then that contributed to the housing bubble bursting, so many 478 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: people being left with homes that were underwater, not being 479 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: able to pay their mortgages, etcetera. And so that a 480 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: lot of what fuel that housing bubble was humans falling 481 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:25,800 Speaker 1: into this herd mentality, like blindly accepting this this mantra 482 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: that becoming a homeowner is the American dream and everyone 483 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: should do it. And again we got that message, not 484 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: just it wasn't just something we were born believing, but 485 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,160 Speaker 1: it was all it was something that was really fed 486 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: to us. It was it was something that we were 487 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: socially conditioned to believe, and that led to a lot 488 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: of mistakes. So that's something I think a lot of 489 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: us can remember and relate to. And I think that 490 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: we're waking up to that now where I think, I'm 491 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 1: so happy that we're shows like yours and other financial 492 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: shows are questioning and their debating homeownership like so. But 493 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: so there's no value in renting. Know, there's a lot 494 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: of value in renting. It kind of just depends on 495 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: where you are in your life stage, your goals, what 496 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: you can afford, and there are other ways to build wealth. 497 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: And we're dispelling a lot of those belief systems that 498 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: we just took for granted around homeownership, that it was 499 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: necessarily the best way to build wealth. It's not. Yeah, 500 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: So when we're confronting those social norms right that we're 501 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: being told, you know, oftentimes from political leaders, that homeownership 502 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: is the way to go. Oh, we see our friends 503 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,680 Speaker 1: acting in a certain way, and we just assume that's 504 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: the best way to handle our money. Well, what in 505 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: your mind, are some of the best ways for us 506 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: to kind of break rank with some of those social norms, 507 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 1: And yeah, like how do we actually go about taking 508 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: a different path? Yeah, it does take a lot of guts, 509 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: I will say, because it's tempting to know. It's human nature. 510 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: We want to feel like we belong and that's also 511 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: part of it. We want to feel like we're accepted 512 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: socially and that we feel like we're doing the quote 513 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,200 Speaker 1: unquote right thing. And if everyone's doing that right thing, 514 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: it just feels like we should do it too. So 515 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:09,159 Speaker 1: it does require a departure which is not instinctive to us. 516 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,199 Speaker 1: So it's hard. I want to preface by saying that 517 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: it's not like super easy, but I think it does 518 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: go back to that very first principle of defining rich 519 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: and again being really clear on your financial values and 520 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: your system of your value system um, understanding what your 521 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: goals are, where do you want to be this time, 522 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: next year and in the next five years. And if 523 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: you're let's say, your definition of riches to have a 524 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: lot of mobility in your life because you're you know, 525 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: you're just somebody who really likes to be adventurous and travel. 526 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,719 Speaker 1: Does home ownership make any sense to you? You know, 527 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,240 Speaker 1: because with homeownership, let's remember, comes with paying real estate taxes. 528 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,479 Speaker 1: And of course if you're living in the town and 529 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: you might be benefiting from those taxes, but if you're not, 530 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: I don't really see why you would want to pay 531 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: for property taxes that are paying for school district and 532 00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: you have no kids, or you know, you want to 533 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: maybe take other sorts of risks with your money as 534 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: opposed to putting in a home. You want to put 535 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: it into your business or put it into well, you know, 536 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: to each their own. I'm not gonna but I get 537 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: I think it really you have to think about what 538 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,200 Speaker 1: are my values. It's a very simple question but requires 539 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: some thought, and it's not something you're going to figure 540 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:29,160 Speaker 1: out all in one evening, but it's an ongoing question. 541 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: And this is something that, again with couples, should be 542 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,200 Speaker 1: an ongoing assessment. And my husband and I just bought 543 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: a home, but this was something that we've always known 544 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 1: we wanted to do, and we have kids, and I 545 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: think if we didn't have kids and we weren't so 546 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: tethered to our jobs in the location of our jobs, well, 547 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: you know, renting. We actually rented before we bought. You know, 548 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 1: it all depends on your life stage. I think being 549 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: flexible is really important, giving yourself the ability to say 550 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: to yourself and the permission to say to yourself, like, 551 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: I can be flexible. I don't have to do what 552 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: everyone else is doing, and that's okay because at the 553 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: end of the day, I'm doing what I want to 554 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 1: do and what feels right to me. Now we're seeing 555 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: um more women making more than their husbands and it's 556 00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: creating a lot of confusion in marriages, especially the couples 557 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: that weren't maybe anticipating this, that grew up with the thought, 558 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: the mindset again that men need to be the breadwinners 559 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: because that is sort of their gender role. And we 560 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: think we're so modernized guys, like it's twenty why does 561 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: this even matter? But if you look at the data Pew, 562 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: which I love, they do amazing work, and they looked 563 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: at the landscape and they interviewed men and women, and 564 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,360 Speaker 1: across the board, men and women majority think that it 565 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: is still the man's responsibility to be the financial breadwinner, 566 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: to be more responsible for supporting the family financially. Men 567 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,480 Speaker 1: have grown up with this expectation of them. Society has 568 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: put this us you're on men, and men have grown 569 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: up with this understanding that in order to be a 570 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: good man, a good father, a good husband, you need 571 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: to be the breadwinner and you need to that that 572 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: that earning money for the family, that is exclusively your 573 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 1: role and your purpose. And so when that is not 574 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,920 Speaker 1: the case, that creates a lot of um uneasiness and 575 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,440 Speaker 1: unsettling feelings for men and also for women who maybe 576 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: have grown up with the opposite social conditioning that you're 577 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: going to be the provide the caretaker, that you're going 578 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: to provide in other ways, but financially, like, that's not 579 00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: your department. So we need to rewrite the fairy tale 580 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: if that was your fairy tale growing up, that I'm 581 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: gonna marry Prince Charming or I'm going to be the 582 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 1: man who's going to be the big breadwinner. I'm just 583 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,959 Speaker 1: telling everybody, like, prepare for that not happening, because and 584 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: it's fine. You know, it should not be like a 585 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: scary thing. But if you're prepared for it, you're gonna 586 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: be prepared for it and you're gonna know that, um, 587 00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: it's completely okay. It can work. You and thrive. And 588 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in this predicament I make more than 589 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: my husband. And so this book for me was very 590 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: much a personal calling. I didn't have all the answers, 591 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: and I wanted to go out and find them from 592 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: myself and my own relationship, and through that discovered a whole, 593 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: you know, community and network of people who were quietly 594 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,680 Speaker 1: living this reality. And quietly, I say, because they didn't 595 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: feel like it was socially appropriate to talk about it. 596 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: There are more women going to college and going to 597 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 1: get their PhDs and their NBA's than men, and so 598 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 1: you have already women ready to make more out of 599 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 1: school than men. And then we had the Great Recession, 600 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: where more jobs that were lost were male jobs, typically 601 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 1: like jobs in the real estate, construction, finance. Those were 602 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: the jobs that were largely shed. And so women in 603 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 1: that era, a lot of women who weren't working found 604 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 1: themselves suddenly the breadwinners, going to work or taking on 605 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 1: two jobs to support their families. And that musician didn't 606 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: really they didn't really go back to the traditional life 607 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: that they had. It was still where she was making more. 608 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: We're seeing different things now in this current climate. I 609 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: was just reading the New York Times that there are 610 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 1: more women being losing jobs right now, just given to 611 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: just the nature of the jobs that are being lost. 612 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: But men are taking on more of the housework as 613 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: a result, So it's like a lose win, I guess 614 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 1: I for one light housework. Matt. You're pretty good a 615 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: house right, And I'm one of those those rare guys 616 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: that I don't mind that at all. Yeah, depends on 617 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: what it is, but some of it I don't mind. 618 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 1: All right, Well, Furnish, we've got some more questions for 619 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: you about couples of money in particular too. We want 620 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,720 Speaker 1: to ask about your specific situation, your situation with your husband, 621 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: which partially lead you to write this book. So we'll 622 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: get to some of those questions right after the break. 623 00:32:58,120 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: All right, we're back from the break again. We're talking 624 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: with far News and Furnish. You were just mentioning how 625 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: how you make more right? You've been pretty forthright about 626 00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: being the breadwinner in your relationship, So how have you 627 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,920 Speaker 1: and your husband's specifically dealt with being in a relationship 628 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: where your money earning roles are flipped, you know, from 629 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: those traditional roles. Yeah, And I will say, while the 630 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: world looks different, it feels the same in some ways, 631 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: like deep down maybe we don't even want to accept it, 632 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: but the data is pretty revealing as far as you know, 633 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: how we feel life should be. That women still feel 634 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,960 Speaker 1: like they want to be taken care of, Men still 635 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 1: feel like it is somehow their destiny to be the 636 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:42,480 Speaker 1: financial breadwinners, because that's just what that's what's been modeled 637 00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: for us, you know. And it's really hard to reverse 638 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: a lot of that hardwiring social conditioning. Even though on 639 00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 1: the outside there's so much progress, I think in our 640 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: heads we're still very much um stuck in those old 641 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: traditional formats. Yeah, it's almost like we're like slightly behind 642 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: the cur Yeah. And I I interviewed a lot of 643 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: therapists and behavioral economists for my last book, When She 644 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: Makes More, And one of the things that I think 645 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 1: really just kind of summed it up for me was 646 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: Dr Brad Claws, who's an excellent actually should have him 647 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: on your podcast. In fact, he's a great financial therapist 648 00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: and he's got a lot of interesting perspectives. But he 649 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 1: was like, there's basically a gap between what are where 650 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,880 Speaker 1: where we are societally, and then also like where we 651 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: are in our heads, you know, primitively, there's sort of 652 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: like we have primitive brains and a lot of progress 653 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: in society, and there's sort of this gap as far 654 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: as where we are and where we fee where we 655 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 1: are in our heads. And yeah, it's absolutely true. So 656 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: to your question, my husband and I we were fortunate 657 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,920 Speaker 1: in that there was never this sort of flip in 658 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 1: our relationship, where I think it's harder for couples who 659 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,520 Speaker 1: may have started dating or in the beginning of their 660 00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,200 Speaker 1: marriage one person was the breadwinner and that was the expectation, 661 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,839 Speaker 1: and then it kind of change and became this sort 662 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: of like, okay, what do we do now scenario where 663 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,360 Speaker 1: when we ever since we were dating, I was always 664 00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: making a little bit more, and then now in our marriage, 665 00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 1: my career, because I'm an entrepreneur, I think there's just 666 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,960 Speaker 1: like no ceiling, so there's just more of an upward 667 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: mobility for me financially, whereas he's been more of a 668 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: salaried worker in his career. So that's where the gap 669 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,920 Speaker 1: comes in. But we've always kind of expected and planned 670 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: for that. Although I will say I'm always down for 671 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: my husband becoming the breadwinner, I think in every relationship. 672 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: It's nice to have that flexibility, and I feel as 673 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 1: a breadwinner, I'm I feel so grateful and so proud 674 00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: of my ability to provide for my family. I get it. 675 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: I get it. Why why men like this role? But 676 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 1: I think everyone will love it and everyone should. If 677 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,040 Speaker 1: every everybody wants to have this role, should have it. 678 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,080 Speaker 1: It's a great role to have comes with a lot 679 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:54,240 Speaker 1: of pride, and I would want that for my husband 680 00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: at some point. I think he would really rise to 681 00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,799 Speaker 1: that occasion as well. So that said, the way that 682 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: we have now navigated this is, firstly, we do not 683 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,279 Speaker 1: assume that just because one person makes less or one 684 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: person makes more, that their jobs are less valuable. Right Like, 685 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: each person's career is honored and valued, and each person's 686 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: time is honored and valued in the relationship. I think 687 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: that's where a lot of times people do a really 688 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: bad calculus is like, well, I make more, therefore my 689 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,920 Speaker 1: time is more valuable, my job is more valuable. And 690 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: maybe on paper your job is more valuable because that 691 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,759 Speaker 1: paycheck you bring home is more. But it's not to 692 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 1: say that your partner's work is not as is less significant. Right. Yeah, 693 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: the attitude is not welcome. Like if your husband or 694 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: or wife is a teacher and you are you know, 695 00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: when you run a laundromat, who and you end up 696 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: making more because you have an entrepreneurial job. Role, Is 697 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,080 Speaker 1: that teacher's job not important or significant? Absolutely not. So 698 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: I think that's a something that really you need to 699 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,320 Speaker 1: just accep uped and that's very helpful in your relationship 700 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 1: because then there's not this sort of feeling of resentment 701 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: or I think it just levels the playing field a lot. 702 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,279 Speaker 1: And speaking of leveling the playing field, I think that financially, 703 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: how do you level the playing field? This is great 704 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: advice for everybody, something that my husband I feel like 705 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: we've really mastered in our relationship, even though you have 706 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: disparate incomes. Leveling the financial playing field, how do you 707 00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 1: do that? Comes down to this, whether you make five 708 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: dollars or fifty dollars an hour or a thousand dollars 709 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: an hour, your money is important, and your money is valuable. 710 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: The money that you bring into the relationship is equally 711 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,399 Speaker 1: as valuable, and it can go towards things that are 712 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: also valuable. So what I discovered early on in our relationship, 713 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: the mistake that we were making was that because my 714 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: income was higher, I was just sort of paying for 715 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 1: a lot of things, and my husband's income wasn't really 716 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: assigned a role. He was saving his money, he was 717 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 1: paying for things here and there, but it didn't really 718 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 1: feel like his income was going towards big things. And 719 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: so we quickly fixed that where because I was making more, 720 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: it was just easier for me to cover some of 721 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 1: the bigger monthly expenses, but it wasn't to say that 722 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 1: my husband couldn't still be a big contributor financially to 723 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 1: the relationship and to the family. And so the way 724 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: that we have leveled the playing field is like, I 725 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 1: still pay for a lot of the big ticket stuff 726 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,560 Speaker 1: that's more day to day that requires more cash flow, 727 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: but his ability to save for the family is not 728 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,560 Speaker 1: to be underestimated. His ability to say, for example, for 729 00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,360 Speaker 1: college education. That's his primary, one of his primary roles, 730 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:37,359 Speaker 1: and he does a good job at that, and that's 731 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: huge for him to say one day like I sent 732 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,960 Speaker 1: our kids to college, that's huge, or I pay for 733 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,160 Speaker 1: the vacations and I pay for you know, So we 734 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: assigned his money big roles and things again that he 735 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,239 Speaker 1: chose because they were important to him and felt like 736 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 1: it was it was contributing to his sort of esteem 737 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,680 Speaker 1: as a contributor in the relationship. And that's something that 738 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:03,080 Speaker 1: everybod he can do, no matter how much little or 739 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: greatly you make, UM understanding how you can be a 740 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: provider in the relationship in significant ways. So yeah, maybe 741 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: you're not helping to pay for you know, you're not 742 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: supporting the grocery bill or child care, but maybe you 743 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: are using your money to plan for the future, to 744 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: put like he maxes out for one k every quarter 745 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: every year, and so again he's like helping us safe 746 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,680 Speaker 1: for our future in a way that UM unrecognized, unexamined, 747 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,960 Speaker 1: may not have been the case. So as we overcome 748 00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: some of those emotional hurdles, how do we work out 749 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: the logistics right? And there's logistics when it comes to 750 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: how we get to spend the money that comes in, 751 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,440 Speaker 1: and there's logistics in regards to who takes care of 752 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: the kids more and who does more of the household 753 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 1: household work, and so yeah, how have you and your 754 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,440 Speaker 1: husband talked about those things? And how do you recommend 755 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: couples who do have roles where one one makes more 756 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 1: money than the other, like, how do you talk through 757 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: these other parts of our your money that are so 758 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:10,160 Speaker 1: important too. Yeah, it's different for everybody, but I think 759 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,719 Speaker 1: as a as a starting point for all relationships, this 760 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,879 Speaker 1: is whether you make the same amount of money more 761 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: or less. Is I like the three buckets rule. I 762 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: don't like to pull all the money into one pot. 763 00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:24,480 Speaker 1: I think that feels for me. I think I would 764 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:26,279 Speaker 1: have a problem with that. Again, this could be a 765 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:28,880 Speaker 1: personal choice, but I just find that because I've also 766 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,919 Speaker 1: heard this from so many couples over the nineteen years 767 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,359 Speaker 1: of doing my work. The couples where they just have 768 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: one bank account, they can each person in the relationship 769 00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: does end up feeling constrained, Whereas when you have three buckets, 770 00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: where you have our shared account, my account, your account, 771 00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:51,720 Speaker 1: there is inherently more freedom for each person to spend 772 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:54,800 Speaker 1: and to not feel like they have to get permission 773 00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: to spend money. So I do recommend how those three 774 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: buckets so that each person can maintain some financial autonomy 775 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,000 Speaker 1: within the relationship. I think that's really important. You don't 776 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: want to be fighting over things like can I get 777 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,360 Speaker 1: a new iPhone? Or I want to get a haircut? 778 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,359 Speaker 1: Maybe some highlights and I have to have a conversation 779 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: about this with my partner, So logistically, I just think 780 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: it's easier, and then it just diffuses a lot of 781 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:27,200 Speaker 1: that back and forth fighting over these miscellaneous expenses. I 782 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: think that when it comes down to tackling these big 783 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: ticket items in your life like childcare and rent, and again, 784 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: this is going to be an individual exercise, but the 785 00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 1: assignment is the same for everybody, which is to figure 786 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,040 Speaker 1: out what are these expenses that you're both sharing in 787 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: as a household, where where the priorities? And this can 788 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:54,400 Speaker 1: get tricky because sometimes one person really want needs the childcare. 789 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,600 Speaker 1: They like, I can't live without the childcare, and the 790 00:41:56,640 --> 00:41:59,239 Speaker 1: other person's like, but I could stay home. It really 791 00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: depends on what you're goals are and what is that 792 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,160 Speaker 1: lifestyle that you want. And if you are the breadwinner, 793 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: I think it's important there is a whether you're the 794 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 1: man or the woman, like, there needs to be some 795 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: systems in place to support you to be able to 796 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 1: continue making that money. So I'm the breadwinner of my family, 797 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: I need full time childcare and I don't want my 798 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,879 Speaker 1: husband to not work because I don't think that's for 799 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: me that that that makes me feel less secure. I 800 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 1: want a dual income household. That's priority for us. That's 801 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,480 Speaker 1: an important value for us. Some couples can do without that. 802 00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,760 Speaker 1: I would feel extremely vulnerable if my husband wasn't working. 803 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: I rely on him for healthcare, and I think it's 804 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: important that he's out there for himself, working and feeling 805 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: good about the work that he puts out in the world. 806 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: So there's lots of data about single income households being 807 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,720 Speaker 1: extremely financially vulnerable and leading more think to things like divorce. 808 00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:58,560 Speaker 1: So I know all that, and I for all those reasons, 809 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: I don't want him not work ging and he um 810 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 1: we've agreed on that. So it's about like kind of 811 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 1: figuring out what are our values where where, how can 812 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: we support one another, What are the things that we 813 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: need in place the systems, how and how can we 814 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,279 Speaker 1: use our incomes together to support that? And if one 815 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,400 Speaker 1: person is making significantly more, then that person clearly is 816 00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: going to be paying more for these things. But I 817 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:24,839 Speaker 1: think it's still a joint conversation. You need to both 818 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,400 Speaker 1: be on the same page and aligned about where the 819 00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,319 Speaker 1: money is actually going, because it is our money at 820 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:30,719 Speaker 1: the end of the day. Even though maybe we're not 821 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,920 Speaker 1: putting it all in the same pot. Yes, so much 822 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: of that does come down and communicating and you know, 823 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: like once you decide what that is, and these are 824 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: discussions you've had together, it's about talking through that though, 825 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: and then figuring out how to best implement that. You know, 826 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,440 Speaker 1: like in your case, you're mentioning how like it's a priority. 827 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: It's important for you and your husband to have the 828 00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:50,839 Speaker 1: option to work and to pursue a career. Sometimes that's 829 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,399 Speaker 1: not the case. So oftentimes there's a desire right from 830 00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: individuals to spend more time at home to raise, you know, 831 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,000 Speaker 1: the kids, and that might cause the mom or the 832 00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: dad to hit on the careers. And so what advice 833 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: do you have, maybe for for either partner who does 834 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: eventually want to get back out there into the workforce. Well, 835 00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 1: I think my biggest piece of advice is to even 836 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: as you are not working quote unquote in the you know, 837 00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:18,440 Speaker 1: in your own job, or you've taken time out of 838 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: the workforce to work at home, still a lot of 839 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: work at home. I don't want to underestimate or undermine 840 00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: anybody who's a stay at home parent. It's a lot 841 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: of work it's there, I say, more work at home. 842 00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,200 Speaker 1: It's different work, and it's harder work. In some ways, 843 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: I would say, try to continue to keep a foot 844 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: in the door in so far as maybe nurturing your network, 845 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 1: staying on top of your industry, having coffee with colleagues, 846 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: updating your LinkedIn, taking some maybe online courses, just not 847 00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: neglecting entirely that professional side of your life because it 848 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: will be harder to transition back and know the data 849 00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,400 Speaker 1: shows that it's harder to get back into the workforce 850 00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,120 Speaker 1: the longer you're out of the workforce. This is and 851 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,359 Speaker 1: there's even a bigger penalty for men right now because 852 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,839 Speaker 1: again culturally we're not like we don't understand stay at 853 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,719 Speaker 1: home fathers, Like we just don't. We're like, m, what 854 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:15,680 Speaker 1: are you doing all day? What? Like it's stupid. But 855 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,880 Speaker 1: that's just unfortunately, the men pay a bigger penalty, financial 856 00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,440 Speaker 1: penalty for being out of the workforce on average when 857 00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: they try to get back in. So knowing that, I 858 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:27,319 Speaker 1: think is um important because it might encourage you to 859 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: continue to at least keep a little bit of that 860 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,960 Speaker 1: part of you alive and active, and it could mean 861 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: just joining a professional network once a month, you know, 862 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,880 Speaker 1: going out and having a coffee with a colleague or 863 00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: going to a professional event. And I would also encourage 864 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: couples before perhaps they even go through that transition of 865 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,439 Speaker 1: having one person leave the workforce just to be at home, 866 00:45:53,520 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 1: is to really understand the financial toll because often I 867 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,279 Speaker 1: find guys that the quick math that we do, and 868 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,239 Speaker 1: this is often the women doing this math, which I 869 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: think is also a mistake, is we look at how 870 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,600 Speaker 1: much we make, and we we also look at what 871 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 1: childcare costs, and we go, oh, well, my salary is 872 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 1: basically the same, just maybe a little bit less than childcare. 873 00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 1: So why would I outsource childcare and go to work 874 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,480 Speaker 1: to make pretty much to makeically just pay for childcare? 875 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: And I think that quick math is very unfair to women, 876 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:30,560 Speaker 1: and it's also an inaccurate calculation because one, why is 877 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:33,680 Speaker 1: only the woman doing that math the childcare as far 878 00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: as I remember, and is supporting everybody in the family, 879 00:46:36,760 --> 00:46:39,640 Speaker 1: the husband, the other partners also benefiting from that childcare. 880 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,480 Speaker 1: So what is that childcare as a percentage of both 881 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:44,400 Speaker 1: of your incomes? That's going to change the calculus, and 882 00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,239 Speaker 1: I think you'll be realizing, oh, it's not just my 883 00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,720 Speaker 1: salary versus childcare. It's both of our salaries versus childcare. 884 00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:53,520 Speaker 1: You might decide then that it is worth it. That's 885 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: the first thing. The second you have to factor in 886 00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: those intangible benefits that you have A yeah, absolutely that 887 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:01,719 Speaker 1: that's the next piece of it, right, And there's a 888 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,560 Speaker 1: great calculator online. The u r L is way too 889 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: long to share with you on the podcast, but I'll 890 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,080 Speaker 1: send it to you and you can share it with 891 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: your gath, your listeners, um in the show notes. But 892 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,640 Speaker 1: it's this calculator that basically asks you, okay, how many 893 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,400 Speaker 1: years are you leaving the workforce? What was the salary 894 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,120 Speaker 1: that you had, and then it takes into account here's 895 00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,279 Speaker 1: what you're not paying into Social Security, here's what you're 896 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,279 Speaker 1: not paying towards your four O on K. And so 897 00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: the lifetime loss of being out of the workforce for 898 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,480 Speaker 1: say even just a year is far more than what 899 00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,799 Speaker 1: you think it is. It's not just the salary, it's 900 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:40,759 Speaker 1: all those benefits. It's all those extras that you're not 901 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: getting that by the way, if you're not um, you know, 902 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: letting that compound too. That's also lost income, lost net worth. 903 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:50,400 Speaker 1: So it's a lot more sobering when you do the 904 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,560 Speaker 1: real math as opposed to the back of the napkin 905 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: math of like, well I make fifty year, it's forty 906 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,960 Speaker 1: two dollars for full time childcare, whatever it is. If 907 00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,800 Speaker 1: you're living in New York, you get me. But it's um, 908 00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:05,799 Speaker 1: it's not fair. I think it's not a fair projection. 909 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,200 Speaker 1: And I just want to encourage people to actually do 910 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 1: the real math and then also to realize what is 911 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,840 Speaker 1: this cost against both of our incomes, not just the 912 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 1: moms or dad's income. Farners, those are some some great tips. 913 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:20,120 Speaker 1: I think that's some really helpful information for people who 914 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,800 Speaker 1: are considering that. We've covered some great ground here today. 915 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,279 Speaker 1: Um yeah in this conversation. So we want to say 916 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:26,600 Speaker 1: thanks for coming on the show, and we also want 917 00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,359 Speaker 1: to ask, like where can our listeners find out more 918 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,000 Speaker 1: about you? Thank you so much. I've had such a 919 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: great time chatting with you guys. So these days I 920 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:35,480 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on the podcast, So you 921 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,759 Speaker 1: can find me at so many podcast dot com. We 922 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,640 Speaker 1: have shows three days a week, and I'm hanging out 923 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:46,720 Speaker 1: a lot on Instagram. That's my social media preference right now. Um, 924 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,960 Speaker 1: I love answering people's questions in the direct messages and 925 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,200 Speaker 1: um hearing from everybody there. It's a quick way to 926 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: get in touch if you have a quick question, so 927 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,359 Speaker 1: you can follow me there at FARNWS. To Robbie Well, 928 00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,720 Speaker 1: far New that was awesome, Thanks so much for joining 929 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,719 Speaker 1: us today on the podcast. Thank you, Thanks guys, that 930 00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,080 Speaker 1: was a great conversation. Farness really knows her stuff about 931 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,239 Speaker 1: couples in money, and largely because she lives it right, 932 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,120 Speaker 1: she and her husband have had to discuss a lot 933 00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:14,680 Speaker 1: of these things. That's what led her to write that 934 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:16,839 Speaker 1: book when she makes more and I think she had 935 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: some great advice to share with us. But I want 936 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:20,160 Speaker 1: to know from you what was your big takeaway from 937 00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:22,640 Speaker 1: our conversation today. I think takeaway came early on in 938 00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,719 Speaker 1: our conversation man. Actually, uh in the first book that 939 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:26,920 Speaker 1: we discussed, which was psych Yourself Rich. You know, we 940 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:30,080 Speaker 1: asked about like defining rich to you, right, like what 941 00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,160 Speaker 1: does that mean to you as an individual? Said? Private airplanes? 942 00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:36,799 Speaker 1: You love that business class ticket, don't you know? Never? 943 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,920 Speaker 1: Actually never, I've never been in business class. Well, actually 944 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: I did one time on a domestic flight. Okay, I 945 00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,400 Speaker 1: was gonna say that's a lie I have before. But 946 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,480 Speaker 1: air Tran used to be an airline, and they used 947 00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: to have business class where you could upgrade for like 948 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:53,919 Speaker 1: forty bucks. That's the AirTrain no longer exists, probably because 949 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:56,000 Speaker 1: of their comby business model. Well, what I was gonna 950 00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,160 Speaker 1: say though, is um like, obviously I love practical advice, 951 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, like tips, trad like things that you can 952 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,640 Speaker 1: start implementing right now. Is always very helpful. But you 953 00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:05,239 Speaker 1: also know me very well, Joel, and you know I'm 954 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: a very foundational, orderly kind of a guy. And when 955 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 1: you don't know why you're doing something, at least for me, 956 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,919 Speaker 1: when I don't know, I'll rephrase it. When I don't 957 00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:15,719 Speaker 1: know why I'm doing something, it's hard for me to 958 00:50:15,719 --> 00:50:18,239 Speaker 1: do it well. And so when it comes to you 959 00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,120 Speaker 1: were so unruly in school grown up, I'm like, what's 960 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: the point of that exactly? But if had I been 961 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 1: able to channel that energy and and tie that to 962 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: a goal, like something that I knew I was striving towards, 963 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:28,680 Speaker 1: I bet I would have been a lot more ruly. 964 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:30,359 Speaker 1: And I think the same is true when it comes 965 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,000 Speaker 1: to my money, how I view and approach my money, 966 00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:35,920 Speaker 1: Like when I know I'm seeking after a certain goal, 967 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: Well then it all makes sense. And I'll kind of 968 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 1: touch on this a little bit too, but she was 969 00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:42,040 Speaker 1: talking about how a lot of times, you know, what 970 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,799 Speaker 1: that looks like for a lot of people. Isn't the sexy, 971 00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: tangible fun things. It's not the business class ticket, right, 972 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,440 Speaker 1: It's it's a lot of times it's a feeling. And 973 00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 1: so whatever that feeling is, if you can identify that 974 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:55,839 Speaker 1: and harness that and have that be sort of your 975 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,320 Speaker 1: your guide post, well you know, that can help inform 976 00:50:58,400 --> 00:50:59,880 Speaker 1: all the decisions that we make in life, and part 977 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:01,760 Speaker 1: because when it comes to how we handle our money. 978 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, what about you, man? So my big takeaway 979 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,640 Speaker 1: also came early in the episode, and she mentioned that 980 00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,000 Speaker 1: your employment is more insecure than you think it is. 981 00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,120 Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people feel insecure about 982 00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:14,279 Speaker 1: their job right now, whether that's founded or not. But 983 00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,040 Speaker 1: when you see the unemployment numbers being released, their shocking, 984 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: their historic, and so in a down economy intercession, more 985 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 1: of our jobs are at risk. But you know what, 986 00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:26,320 Speaker 1: they're more at risk than you think they are anyway, 987 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:28,240 Speaker 1: And I love too. At one point when she said 988 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,799 Speaker 1: that her income essentially there was no roof, there was 989 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,799 Speaker 1: no limit to it as a self employed entrepreneur, and 990 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,640 Speaker 1: so I think that's another important thing to mention. It's 991 00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 1: something that we talked about briefly with Vincent Buglisi at 992 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: one point too. When you're self employed, when you're doing 993 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,279 Speaker 1: your own thing, people automatically think that that's more risky 994 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,319 Speaker 1: than having employment through a traditional employer, and that's not 995 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,759 Speaker 1: necessarily the case. And in fact, your income abilities, the 996 00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,239 Speaker 1: amount that you're able to earn, are probably greatly limited 997 00:51:56,480 --> 00:52:00,000 Speaker 1: by having traditional employment. And so yeah, I think entreprene 998 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,440 Speaker 1: newership can provide for a lot of people actually a 999 00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,480 Speaker 1: greater sense of stability and a greater earning potential. So yeah, 1000 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,200 Speaker 1: that was my big takeaway. So true, man, I love it. Alright, 1001 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,040 Speaker 1: let's go ahead and switch gears. Now, let's get back 1002 00:52:11,040 --> 00:52:12,560 Speaker 1: to the beer that we had on this episode. You 1003 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,000 Speaker 1: and I shared a Petite Sour Raspberry and this is 1004 00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,600 Speaker 1: by Crooked Stave Artists and Beer Project. These guys are 1005 00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: out of Colorado. A lot of good beer there, man, 1006 00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:23,520 Speaker 1: What were your thoughts on this craft beer? This is 1007 00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:26,120 Speaker 1: one of my favorite breweries in the world. Uh. I 1008 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:28,400 Speaker 1: got to visit it a few years back and I 1009 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:29,919 Speaker 1: was gonna go back the next day, but a crane 1010 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:32,520 Speaker 1: fell through the roof literally really yeah, but they were 1011 00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:34,799 Speaker 1: their tasting room us, so it was shut down. So 1012 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,319 Speaker 1: I'm glad I went the first day. You've never heard 1013 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: that story before. It was crazy. So yeah, I love 1014 00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,040 Speaker 1: this beer in particular is one of the best ones 1015 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,280 Speaker 1: they make. I'm hugely partial to raspberry sours. This beer 1016 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,520 Speaker 1: had it was like a raspberry jam flavor with a 1017 00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,440 Speaker 1: little bit of confusion. It was tart, it was delicious. 1018 00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,640 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of Cricket Stave everything they do, 1019 00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:56,759 Speaker 1: and specifically this beer. Like your take, man, Yeah, the 1020 00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,520 Speaker 1: the oak in it, for sure, it kind of gives 1021 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:01,279 Speaker 1: it like a dryness, which is for me, like the 1022 00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:02,840 Speaker 1: first thing that I noticed as I was drinking this. 1023 00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: It wasn't overly sweet and had at a very kind 1024 00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:07,759 Speaker 1: of dry flavor. You get that with Petite as well. Uh, 1025 00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,000 Speaker 1: these these sour beers where they're just a little bit 1026 00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,320 Speaker 1: lighter over the years, at least That's what I've noticed 1027 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,319 Speaker 1: about these Petit beers. And so it kind of had that. 1028 00:53:15,440 --> 00:53:17,000 Speaker 1: It definitely had that raspberry flavor, but it was a 1029 00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,279 Speaker 1: little more subtle in my opinion. Uh, and it did 1030 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,480 Speaker 1: have a little bit that funky kind of bretty flavor 1031 00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:24,239 Speaker 1: going on as well, so nice, well rounded. I don't 1032 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,560 Speaker 1: love these raspberry beers nearly as much as you do, 1033 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,040 Speaker 1: my friend, but I'm still glad that you and I 1034 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,080 Speaker 1: got to share this one together. Me too, man, Me too. 1035 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,160 Speaker 1: All right, Well, that's gonna do it for this episode. 1036 00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:34,879 Speaker 1: For people that want show notes in that one link 1037 00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:36,640 Speaker 1: that far news you promised to send us, we'll have 1038 00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 1: it in our show notes and you can find those 1039 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:40,759 Speaker 1: at how to money dot com. That's right, And we 1040 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,319 Speaker 1: would love it if you are not already a subscriber 1041 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: to wherever you are listening to this episode, make sure 1042 00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,560 Speaker 1: you hit subscribe that way you don't miss an episode. 1043 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,600 Speaker 1: And if you haven't already as well, we would love 1044 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,640 Speaker 1: if you went over to Apple podcast and if you 1045 00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,719 Speaker 1: could leave us a rating and review over there, help 1046 00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:55,399 Speaker 1: us to get the word out hope others to find 1047 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: this podcast so that they can be on a better 1048 00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,720 Speaker 1: financial path. All right, man, that's gonna be for this episode. 1049 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,560 Speaker 1: Until next time. Best Friends are Out, Best Friends Out. 1050 00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:05,640 Speaker 1: H