1
00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's just keep the real straight shright. We know, Jason,

2
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a little bit rougher. I'm here for it.

3
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,040
Speaker 1: Those who really believe in the American process, all of us.

4
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,280
Speaker 1: Straight Shot No Chaser. What's your Girl? Tesla Figuo on

5
00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:26,279
Speaker 1: The Black Effect podcasting that word What's having? Straight to

6
00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: the family. This is Tesla and Figure Oh, the host

7
00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 1: of Straight Shot No Chaser. I am so excited to

8
00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,400
Speaker 1: continue our series with the George Floyd Foundation where we

9
00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,080
Speaker 1: are focusing on six episodes. May do more, but right

10
00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,880
Speaker 1: now currently six episodes that will be distributed to over

11
00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,400
Speaker 1: five hundred thousand incarcerated individuals. The most powerful thing that

12
00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 1: I certainly have done in a very very long time

13
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: to have the ability to be able to touch those

14
00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 1: that are incarcerated. I always live by Matthew where one

15
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: of the past just says, when I was in prison,

16
00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,240
Speaker 1: you did not see me. So that is so important

17
00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,600
Speaker 1: to me personally as an individual, as a senior advisor

18
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: for the George Floyd Foundation, and because of what I do.

19
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,560
Speaker 1: A lot of my work that I do, as you know,

20
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 1: it's focusing on police reform, but I also talk about

21
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 1: prison reform as well. We want to make sure that

22
00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,240
Speaker 1: people have an opportunity to not be locked up, but

23
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,240
Speaker 1: in the event that they are, we want to make

24
00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,240
Speaker 1: sure that people are treated fairly and just not that

25
00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,520
Speaker 1: people should not be punished for the crime, but we

26
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,520
Speaker 1: want to make sure that people are not over sentenced,

27
00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,039
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that individuals actually have

28
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,000
Speaker 1: a chance to be reformed and to be productive members

29
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,679
Speaker 1: in society. So that is what this series is all about.

30
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:43,400
Speaker 1: George Floyd Foundation has graciously partnered with me on this

31
00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: to be able to contribute to their social justice advocacy program.

32
00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,600
Speaker 1: As we continue this series today, my guests is the

33
00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: Arthur of Wife after Prison called in the Aftermath. Her

34
00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,720
Speaker 1: name is Sheila Bruno, and before I tell you a

35
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: little bit about her background, and I'm gonna let her

36
00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,320
Speaker 1: talk because, as you guys know who are listening, we

37
00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,400
Speaker 1: do very conversational pieces here. But how I met her

38
00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:12,079
Speaker 1: was I was scrolling through Instagram and saw the title

39
00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,720
Speaker 1: Wife After Prison and I became intrigued because obviously I

40
00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,800
Speaker 1: like to follow prison reform and it's something that I

41
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: like to do and one of my favorite things to

42
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: do um is obviously training, and I was so impressed

43
00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:30,919
Speaker 1: uh looking inspired, not impressed, inspired to see the transparency

44
00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 1: of her story, the purpose in her mission, her tenacity

45
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:40,119
Speaker 1: to say, you know, I have been indirectly impacted by

46
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 1: being uh having a loved one in prison, and now

47
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: I want to take my experience and share it with

48
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,200
Speaker 1: the world, and not even just share with the world,

49
00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 1: but actually go into the prisons and train and teach

50
00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 1: and inspire to go back to the place, and not

51
00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,360
Speaker 1: literally the place, but the place that she would visit,

52
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,320
Speaker 1: the prison system to say, I'm coming back to pour

53
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,079
Speaker 1: back into the system, to to give back. She could

54
00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,239
Speaker 1: have easily just walked away and went on about her business.

55
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,520
Speaker 1: But I've been inspired by her purpose and and and

56
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,080
Speaker 1: so I shadowed her uh at and participated in one

57
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 1: of the trainings in the prison. And it was the

58
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:23,200
Speaker 1: most powerful thing ever because to be able to go

59
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,919
Speaker 1: in and talk to men who have done twenty thirty

60
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,360
Speaker 1: forty years time to give them encouragement, to let them

61
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,720
Speaker 1: know that you can get out, you can have an opportunity, UH,

62
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,920
Speaker 1: you can have a job. To watch them literally watch

63
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:38,880
Speaker 1: them transfer transform in front of me, of teaching them

64
00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,120
Speaker 1: how to market their skills of doing laundry in prison

65
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,480
Speaker 1: or being a janitor or being a cook to watch

66
00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,440
Speaker 1: them transfer and literally shank transform in front of me

67
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,840
Speaker 1: to get confidence was the most rewarding experience ever. So

68
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,080
Speaker 1: Sheila Bruno is known for giving voice to the psychological

69
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,080
Speaker 1: impact of incarceration, which is one of the things we're

70
00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,560
Speaker 1: gonna dig into heave be throughout this series. Also known

71
00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,080
Speaker 1: as post incarceration syndrome, love that. Let me say it again,

72
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,800
Speaker 1: post incarceration syndrome. This is so important not only for

73
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: the incarcerated individual, but also for those that support them,

74
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,159
Speaker 1: which I'm always talking about that. In two thousand fourteen,

75
00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,479
Speaker 1: after being apart for thirty eight years, Sheila became reacquainted

76
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,760
Speaker 1: with her high school sweetheart, Kevin Bruno, who was incarcerated

77
00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:26,000
Speaker 1: for twenty eight of those thirty eight years. Fifty three

78
00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: years later, after their reunion, they were married. In two

79
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:33,080
Speaker 1: thousand sixteen, Kevin became barely recognizable, both in character and behavior.

80
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,520
Speaker 1: With each passing day, his behavior worsened, leading Sheila to

81
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,280
Speaker 1: cry out to God, asking what is happening to my husband?

82
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,080
Speaker 1: Her kind, loving, affectionate husband was now sliding in and

83
00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:48,360
Speaker 1: out of depression, easily irritated by seemingly insignificant incidents. Sheila's

84
00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:50,440
Speaker 1: cry for help was heard by God, which led her

85
00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,440
Speaker 1: to google the question how can a boy become a

86
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,880
Speaker 1: man in prison? Up pop two articles by Craig Haney

87
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,919
Speaker 1: and Terry Gorsky, The psychology impact of incarceration and post

88
00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:06,160
Speaker 1: incarceration syndrome and relapse. That is what has inspired her.

89
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,359
Speaker 1: The bio goes on and on. I encourage you to

90
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,400
Speaker 1: go look at her bio, go to her website. Her

91
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: name is she La Bruno. But without hesitation, I want

92
00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,200
Speaker 1: to welcome her to the show and we're gonna let

93
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,920
Speaker 1: her tell the rest of the story that was just

94
00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 1: the prelude. Hello Sheila, thank you for being Hello, Hello

95
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,279
Speaker 1: Mrs Tesla, and thank you for the opportunity. I've been waiting,

96
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,120
Speaker 1: oh jack O day to get ahead, just to have

97
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,640
Speaker 1: this conversation with you. Uh. It's such an important conversasation

98
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:36,400
Speaker 1: and I may even get a little emotional because it's

99
00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:40,359
Speaker 1: my passion and I've seen the devastation that incarceration leaves

100
00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:43,440
Speaker 1: in its pack. And like you said, Kevin and I

101
00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,599
Speaker 1: reunite it after thirty eight years apart, and for twenty

102
00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,080
Speaker 1: eight of those years he was incarcerated. Within fifty three

103
00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,240
Speaker 1: days we were married. And this is what I like

104
00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 1: to say to the listeners, because sometimes people can be

105
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 1: a little judgment of They like, it's three days. She

106
00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,039
Speaker 1: married him after fifty three days. But if you focus

107
00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,880
Speaker 1: on the fact that I married him after fifty three days,

108
00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:10,200
Speaker 1: you will miss the message and you will miss the lesson.

109
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 1: So as I said, Kevin and I got married within

110
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,719
Speaker 1: the first two years, amazing breakfast and bid baby, what

111
00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 1: you want me to do? You ain't gotta do nothing whatever.

112
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,760
Speaker 1: I stand in this wonder and wait on him to

113
00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,039
Speaker 1: come home. But then he began to change. He would

114
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,119
Speaker 1: come home and he would sit outside and he would

115
00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:32,160
Speaker 1: never come in for hours at a time, or if

116
00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,359
Speaker 1: he came in, he would going to his office and

117
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:38,440
Speaker 1: he would just sit for hours. He would get here

118
00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,000
Speaker 1: at seven, He may sitting at a one o'clock in

119
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,760
Speaker 1: the morning, and I would pass by the door and

120
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:45,560
Speaker 1: he would be just sitting there with his head and

121
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,359
Speaker 1: his heat, and I will say, you're you're okay, and

122
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,880
Speaker 1: his response was I'm good, I'm good, and so I'm good.

123
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,760
Speaker 1: Turned into irrational behavior, outrage, bursts of anger, a whole

124
00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: lot of negative ativity that I wasn't used to this

125
00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,480
Speaker 1: was a peaceful envirobrant, and his behavior began to pollute it.

126
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,120
Speaker 1: And so again that's when I said, I cried out

127
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: to God and say, God, what's happened to my husband?

128
00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:15,200
Speaker 1: What's happened to my husband? Kevin and I separated three times.

129
00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: The last time I was ready to bother for the voice.

130
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,400
Speaker 1: But this particular night, I cried out to God, what

131
00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,200
Speaker 1: has happened to my amazing husband? And that's when I

132
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 1: heard the voice of God said google can a boy

133
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,280
Speaker 1: become a man in prison? And when I did again

134
00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 1: those articles popped up by Terry Craig Haney and Terry Gorsky,

135
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,680
Speaker 1: and it talked about posting conceration syndrome, which is a

136
00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,200
Speaker 1: set of mental disorders that occur in those who are

137
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: currently inconcerated released, most of being those who spent significant

138
00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,960
Speaker 1: time in solitary confinding. And what I read is what

139
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:55,240
Speaker 1: I was living. And again Kevin and I were separated.

140
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,680
Speaker 1: I sent the link over to him. I said, can

141
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,440
Speaker 1: you read this? Well? You read this? And then a

142
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,680
Speaker 1: couple of days later, and it took him a couple

143
00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,560
Speaker 1: of days tests because he said as he read that,

144
00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:09,480
Speaker 1: he really as so it was so many triggers that

145
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,160
Speaker 1: he could respond at the time, but he said, this

146
00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: is what I'm going through, and some of the symptoms

147
00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 1: within the posting conservation syndrome, it's institutionalization, personality trade, anti

148
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:27,920
Speaker 1: social deprivation syndrome, posting UH, post traumatic stress disorder, and

149
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:33,120
Speaker 1: social sensory deprivation a syndrome. And within each of those

150
00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 1: symptoms have their own set of behaviors, right, And so

151
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:42,680
Speaker 1: Kevin again, Kevin was exhibiting all of those behaviors. I

152
00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 1: love this conversation and I love your transparency. And one

153
00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:50,040
Speaker 1: thing about us that we relate on is my closest

154
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,680
Speaker 1: He's my closest friend to me now and he's a

155
00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,000
Speaker 1: part of this series, and we're very transparent what our

156
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,320
Speaker 1: relationship very similar. I knew him when I was sixteen

157
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,720
Speaker 1: years old. It wasn't and I'm glad you. I'm glad

158
00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,280
Speaker 1: you break you explain that in your bio because a

159
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,559
Speaker 1: lot of people think that when women become acquainted with

160
00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,640
Speaker 1: men in prison that they were sitting back on the internet,

161
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,160
Speaker 1: and you know some women doing I'm not judging that, um,

162
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,120
Speaker 1: but we're sitting back on the internet and looking for

163
00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,360
Speaker 1: a pen pal. But my experience and your experience sounds

164
00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,920
Speaker 1: similar to this was somebody I knew prior to being incarcerated,

165
00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,079
Speaker 1: and that fifteen year at least with us that at

166
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,480
Speaker 1: that time twelve year, ten year difference, he still seemed

167
00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,600
Speaker 1: to talk like the same man from what I remember

168
00:09:36,640 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: familiar communicating with someone when all you have is visits

169
00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,280
Speaker 1: and and email, you certainly get a tremendous amount of communication,

170
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,840
Speaker 1: serving more communication than I've ever had with any man,

171
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 1: even on the outside, including when I was married to

172
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,080
Speaker 1: my husband, because all you have is talk. So you talk,

173
00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 1: and you talk, and you're talking, you talk, and he's

174
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,240
Speaker 1: my best friend. Now we're not together, but he's my

175
00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 1: my best friend because I did. I've never been closer

176
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,280
Speaker 1: to anybody from a communication standpoint of really knowing me

177
00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: and him inside and out. And so what it does,

178
00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,000
Speaker 1: and I'm speaking from my experience, is it allows you

179
00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,240
Speaker 1: to have a very familiar place, a familiarity with someone

180
00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,520
Speaker 1: so that when they come home and I'm just asking it,

181
00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:20,400
Speaker 1: you know, if it's asking you to, if you share

182
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,280
Speaker 1: the same thing when they come home and they start

183
00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 1: to change, not only it was it different from what

184
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 1: you knew in prison, but also what you knew from

185
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,760
Speaker 1: that man way back at least that that's my experience,

186
00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,720
Speaker 1: and then you start to have And this is why

187
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 1: in this series I want to talk about the people

188
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,839
Speaker 1: who are indirectly affected, people like us that support people,

189
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 1: because for me, I started to have a guilt, um a,

190
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:49,600
Speaker 1: a feeling of responsibility of I don't want to leave

191
00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 1: this person hanging because they don't have direction, they don't

192
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:54,880
Speaker 1: know where to go, they don't know where to turn.

193
00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,199
Speaker 1: When you were doing your googling and you were looking

194
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:03,520
Speaker 1: up his issues, did you ever google to see why

195
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 1: am I still with this man? Did you ever deal

196
00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,440
Speaker 1: with like? Did you ever deal with this? Ain't making

197
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,920
Speaker 1: no sense. This is not healthy for me. I need

198
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:12,560
Speaker 1: to let this man grow up on his own. I

199
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,040
Speaker 1: can't raise no grown man because for me, I did so.

200
00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,319
Speaker 1: I've answered did you did you ever in that search?

201
00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:22,760
Speaker 1: Did you ever ask yourself? I didn't ask myself? Well,

202
00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:25,040
Speaker 1: you know what tests I did? I did? I said

203
00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: because prior to Kevin, I had been overseas. I was

204
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,880
Speaker 1: doing good, nothing missing, nothing broken, un lacking in my

205
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,920
Speaker 1: life right, And so when I got with him again

206
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,120
Speaker 1: two years amazing, third year, like, oh what the hell? Hell,

207
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:44,920
Speaker 1: I've done here right, And like I said, you know,

208
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:49,200
Speaker 1: it got so bad that I was like, I know,

209
00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,640
Speaker 1: I said, for better, for worse, but I got to

210
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,319
Speaker 1: get out of this. And that's when I said, I'm

211
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,559
Speaker 1: I'm you know, I'm gonna file for divorce. And that Monday,

212
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,400
Speaker 1: I was headed downtown Harris County and uh, that's Sunday.

213
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,680
Speaker 1: I laid in bed and I went to think about

214
00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,240
Speaker 1: There's a chapter in my book called Monsters under My

215
00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 1: Bed and the content came from Kevin and he was

216
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:24,520
Speaker 1: talking about all of his traumatic experiences, what happened to

217
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,320
Speaker 1: him when he was six years old being molested and

218
00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 1: never told nobody but me. He started talking about the

219
00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:40,440
Speaker 1: traumatic experiences that he had pre incarceration, incarceration and posting conceerration, right,

220
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,600
Speaker 1: and so the all all of the three compound never

221
00:12:44,720 --> 00:12:47,800
Speaker 1: dealt with. So I began to think about that, and

222
00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,240
Speaker 1: I was like, I can't leave them. I can't leave

223
00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,520
Speaker 1: them hanging like this. You know, he's messed up and

224
00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,240
Speaker 1: he needs somebody. So I decided to stay right and

225
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 1: he went to counseling and because of the traumatic experience

226
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,480
Speaker 1: that he had had attached yourself to me known as

227
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:11,960
Speaker 1: vicarious trauma. I had to go to council. So he

228
00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:16,240
Speaker 1: went to counseling and he did the work. That's the key.

229
00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 1: He did the work because I want people to understand

230
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,280
Speaker 1: that if they're not doing the work, and people are

231
00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 1: just staying out of obligation, that turns into a prison,

232
00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,439
Speaker 1: that turns into it. Well, God told me I gotta stay,

233
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,480
Speaker 1: and I'm just Lloyd. You know that that slavery when

234
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,120
Speaker 1: we were told let's just stay, Let's stay no matter

235
00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,360
Speaker 1: what I'm right and ditcheck. Particularly Black women, we tend

236
00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,360
Speaker 1: to really stay in things long and the two way

237
00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 1: too long because of this obligation. And I'm speaking for

238
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:47,439
Speaker 1: myself also, but it was doing the work that was

239
00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,200
Speaker 1: the key. So was it the work that that encouraged

240
00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 1: you to be able to, you know, continue to stay

241
00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,000
Speaker 1: in the relationship him working on him, you're working on yourself.

242
00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: So he did the work. And when I started going

243
00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,600
Speaker 1: to therapy, she showed me me. She showed me some

244
00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,720
Speaker 1: of the things that I was doing that was, you know,

245
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:12,640
Speaker 1: may have been causing him to react and behave in

246
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,040
Speaker 1: a certain ways. So I started working on me. And

247
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,240
Speaker 1: this is the thing. As family members, we have to

248
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,920
Speaker 1: realize a lot of times when our loved ones come

249
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 1: from prison, we look at them as though they have

250
00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,400
Speaker 1: all of the issues right, So we have to be

251
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,080
Speaker 1: willing to look at ourselves. Kevin did the work. She

252
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 1: was giving him tools to shoot, use practical tools. When

253
00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,200
Speaker 1: you get ready to behave like this, thanks, stop and think.

254
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: It's this the twenty year old response or is this

255
00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,680
Speaker 1: the fifty four year old response? Just that twenty seconds

256
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,440
Speaker 1: of stopping and thinking made him make better decisions. But

257
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:59,760
Speaker 1: ted he stopped doing the work. Last year. Uh twenty

258
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,440
Speaker 1: twenty Uh, I started seeing those things coming back again

259
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,760
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh God, no, please tell me

260
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 1: not again. But it was again because he stopped doing

261
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,400
Speaker 1: the work, and he stopped going to thirty because he

262
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 1: thought he had it, although he admitted, when I've done

263
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,800
Speaker 1: this amount of time, thirpy has to be a lifestyle

264
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,520
Speaker 1: for me here. Yeah, But again he stopped doing the work.

265
00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:30,040
Speaker 1: And when he stopped doing the work, I had an

266
00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: obligation to myself. I can't do Sheila like this no more.

267
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,880
Speaker 1: We went through this one time and I was ingesting

268
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,920
Speaker 1: sleeping peels, sleeping pills and mascaga. That was the only

269
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:47,920
Speaker 1: thing I would put in my mouth, and I decided

270
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 1: I can't do this again. I won't do this again.

271
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,000
Speaker 1: So April last year I filed for divorce and after

272
00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: May May our divorce was fine. Right, And so one

273
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,080
Speaker 1: of the reasons, and this is what I want your

274
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 1: listeners to understand. They have to understand that prisons are

275
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:14,120
Speaker 1: psychologically powerful pet places capable of transforming the thoughts and

276
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,720
Speaker 1: the behavior. Don't come out that back gate talking about them. Good.

277
00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:21,040
Speaker 1: Don't come out that back back gate. You know you're

278
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 1: in this thirty day freedom high because guess what, when

279
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:31,600
Speaker 1: the responsibilities, day to day responsibilities get to win on you,

280
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:36,120
Speaker 1: you will come right. So make sure just be open

281
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,680
Speaker 1: to the conversation. And one thing that Craig Haney has said,

282
00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 1: he said, we have failed those on the inside. We

283
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:48,600
Speaker 1: have failed because the post release that they do, they

284
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:52,560
Speaker 1: do all of the research on the psychological impact of incarceration.

285
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:57,520
Speaker 1: Why individual is inside on trial, right, but when they

286
00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 1: come home, nobody is following the They said we have

287
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,560
Speaker 1: failed in another area they said that they failed in

288
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,360
Speaker 1: They said, those on the inside need to know the

289
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,920
Speaker 1: impact of incosceration because like Kevin was, I'm good, I'm good.

290
00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,280
Speaker 1: Some of the same guys that you said in a

291
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:22,440
Speaker 1: classroom with Kevin would say to these guys, man, when

292
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 1: you get out, go get you some help. And it

293
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 1: was like, Oh, that's just Ms. Bruno, Mrs Bruno, that's

294
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 1: your issue, that ain't our issue. And some of those

295
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:37,000
Speaker 1: same guys are either back inside for bad choices, are dead,

296
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,560
Speaker 1: or has gotten a divorce because they wasn't willing to

297
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,200
Speaker 1: deal with the psychological impact of the incosceerration. One last

298
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,240
Speaker 1: thing I wanted to say on this test Marlin, Marlin

299
00:17:49,320 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: did thirty nine years, went to prison at fifteen, got

300
00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: out at fifty four. I said, Marlin, tell me about

301
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,800
Speaker 1: your mental health assessment. Ms Bruno was mental health is

302
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,400
Speaker 1: I said, Marty, you went to prison at the team.

303
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 1: I said, when you went in you first went in.

304
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 1: Did you not have a mental health a diagnosis? He

305
00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,760
Speaker 1: said no, ma'am. I said, Marlin, you transferred from unit

306
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,560
Speaker 1: to unit to unit. I said, did you not have

307
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: a mental health diagnosis? He said no, ma'am. I said, Marlin,

308
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 1: you just did pray release at Carol Vans. Did you

309
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:31,080
Speaker 1: not have assessment coming out? He said? Ms Ben he said,

310
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,000
Speaker 1: I've never had a mental health diagnosis. He said, when

311
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,240
Speaker 1: I hear the word mental health, I think it means

312
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 1: that I'm crazy, right, And I said, okay, well it doesn't.

313
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,400
Speaker 1: It just means how you seek, how you feel, and

314
00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 1: how you react with others. So I found out, Tesla,

315
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: when I started debunking what mental health is and what

316
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 1: is not, they are open to talk. It's just lack

317
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,679
Speaker 1: of knowledge mental health. You know, just the word of

318
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 1: mental health. So we have to educate them or what

319
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,199
Speaker 1: mental health is and what it is not. And I

320
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,680
Speaker 1: guarantee you they're open to the conversation. My leaked in

321
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,160
Speaker 1: page it blows up. Someone's always in my inbox saying

322
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:19,640
Speaker 1: ma'am I did twenty two years. Keep talking what you're

323
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 1: talking about. They need to hear this. We need to

324
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: talk about this. They're suffering in silence. They're suffering in

325
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,119
Speaker 1: silence and that just want somebody to talk about and

326
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: give them an outlet to talk about it. But if

327
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:44,040
Speaker 1: we don't talk about it, they won't talk about it.

328
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:49,440
Speaker 1: Has has your divorce and empowered you to do more?

329
00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: Or was there a time? Because I know with me

330
00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: I go through we all get frustrated. God has called

331
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 1: me to do my work, so I'll keep going around

332
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,399
Speaker 1: and burning bush, asking all the time. Okay, God, are

333
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,439
Speaker 1: you serious? Are you serious? Yeah? I'm serious, But so

334
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 1: I I understand that I'm called for this, but there

335
00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,919
Speaker 1: are times of frustration where I say it would be

336
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: so much easy to just do something else. Has your

337
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,360
Speaker 1: personal experience and empowered you inspired you to do more

338
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 1: because you're obviously still still touch about it, obviously still

339
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:26,000
Speaker 1: very fresh and and I'm sure you went through bouts

340
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: of did I do enough? Or I did enough? Or

341
00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,399
Speaker 1: back and forth? How do I help somebody else? At

342
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,240
Speaker 1: least for me when I'm in pain, I I I

343
00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:38,160
Speaker 1: devote my time to helping others until I heal. So

344
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: how has that experience shaped, if any how you continue

345
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 1: to work with with men uh Simon? Has he given

346
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:50,119
Speaker 1: you more tools? It has given me more tools? And

347
00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,720
Speaker 1: I tell you this Kevin said to me, He says, Sheila.

348
00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: He said, of what happened in our marriage with him,

349
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking n him night five, Okay, don't I'm

350
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 1: gonna take this nighty right. And I told you Tess

351
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 1: tests Sometimes you, as you know, you do work it

352
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: in some days it can just weigh on you. What

353
00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: you're like? God, I'm just tired. Just let everybody be

354
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: for themself. But I can't right. And I have been

355
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 1: transparent from the very beginning, since two thousand and fourteen,

356
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,680
Speaker 1: when Kevin and I got married. If I was bold

357
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: enough to get on Facebook and social media say hey,

358
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: I reunited with my sweetheart, I had to be and

359
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: have that halt, that same boldness and transparency to say, hey, y'all,

360
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 1: look and clip, we're getting a divorce. Right then transparent

361
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 1: throughout the process. And when I came forth and said

362
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,919
Speaker 1: that I have gotten a divorce and not I'm not

363
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 1: telling anybody, you know, divorce your men or whatever. But

364
00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:01,160
Speaker 1: if it's any kind of abuse, what the physical, a psychological,

365
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,679
Speaker 1: you got a charge to make right. So when I

366
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: came out, I came out the same way I did

367
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: when I announced the engagement. I came out on social media.

368
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 1: I'm now getting a divorce. And I'll tell you my

369
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:19,240
Speaker 1: inbox grew up me too. I filed for divorce last week.

370
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: I can't handle it. And this is what I want

371
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 1: these guys to understand, or who never to understand. You know,

372
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: you got these riders, they're riding with you. But when

373
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: you come out here and you're not willing to handle

374
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: your business and take care of your mena state mental state,

375
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: nobody has to stay and deal with that. So if

376
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 1: if you fire, then you're gonna do what you need

377
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,400
Speaker 1: to do, and it's gonna be uncomfortable and it ain't

378
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: gonna be easy. And one thing I found out also

379
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:53,719
Speaker 1: tests is that a lot of times, a lot of

380
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people and I'm speaking to my brothers

381
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: and sisters who are inconclrated, they have this. They are

382
00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: afraid to go see a mental health specialist because there's

383
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:10,239
Speaker 1: what's called if exposure. Right, If I bring all of

384
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: this stuff up and I handed over to you, are

385
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 1: you gonna help me process this? Are you able to

386
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 1: help me to process all of the dramatic experiences that

387
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:28,879
Speaker 1: I've seen pre inconceration, in conceration, posting conceration. If you

388
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 1: can't tell me that you're gonna help me, I'm zipping

389
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,120
Speaker 1: my lips and I ain't saying nothing, and I'm gonna

390
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: suffering socks. Yeah. Yeah. And so another thing that we

391
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: have to to to understand that the mental health professionals

392
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,040
Speaker 1: Kevin went through too. The first one couldn't touch it.

393
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 1: He went to see her three times, and she couldn't

394
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: do nothing for him. But when he found one that

395
00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: was heavy trauma heaving trauma seasons season trauma therapists. Every

396
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: time he hit that duty had been crying. She cracked

397
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: him open. Right. So, when people say how do I

398
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: find a mental health professional? You interview them. You interview them.

399
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: You asked them the tough question. You asked to see

400
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: their competentes. You asked have they have they ever dealt

401
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,959
Speaker 1: with anybody that had been in conceleration. Don't let nobody

402
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 1: just take your money or your insurance call. You got

403
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: to make sure that they can help you, right, and so,

404
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: but you have to be willing to give him a chance.

405
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: They're going at the first time say she can't help me, right,

406
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: But you have to be a willing to give them

407
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: a chance. But if they don't move you in some

408
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 1: kind of way, if they're not providing you with the tools,

409
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: they can't help you. They can't help you. So to

410
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 1: to those listening, you talked about it several times, but

411
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: can you go a little bit deeper on some of

412
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,200
Speaker 1: the the symptoms with post incarceration syndrome so that they

413
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: can maybe recognize, you know, maybe a few of the things.

414
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,199
Speaker 1: I know, it's a very broad, you know, conversation, but

415
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,880
Speaker 1: if you can just explain, you know, what that, what

416
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 1: that means, and how they can you know, recognize some

417
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: of those signs. Okay, So so I'm gonna I'm I'm

418
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:24,640
Speaker 1: gonna talk about this test social sensory deprivation syndrome. You've

419
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:29,400
Speaker 1: been in solitary confining for years, some people even decades,

420
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: and so you don't want to be around people. You

421
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: don't know how to be around people. You don't know

422
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: what touch looks like. You've never been touched. The only

423
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: time you've been in touches when you sit stick your

424
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: arms through that hole so that that guard can put

425
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: them here in custom. So you don't know what it's

426
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,879
Speaker 1: like to sleep in the bed with somebody. So you

427
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: come home and you're home for three years and you're

428
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 1: still sleeping on the couch and your wife is in

429
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: the bed because you can't you can't stand touching, right,

430
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: that's so true. Yeah, yeah, hold on pause right there

431
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 1: before you go to the I just want to pause, right,

432
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: So most people listening you probably have heard of, you know,

433
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: you take the test for your love language, and one

434
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:17,800
Speaker 1: of mine is physical touch, and you are absolutely right.

435
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 1: With someone that has done especially a long stretch, there

436
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: is literally a real not even not even just intimacy,

437
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,080
Speaker 1: but a real block with just touching. You know, you

438
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: just touch a woman's leg or hold her hand, are

439
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 1: in the bed where you have this invisible line between

440
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:44,760
Speaker 1: you two because of that, uh, inability to know what

441
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 1: touched me. So you can be sleeping around a lot

442
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 1: of people in the room when they were locked up,

443
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: but not that touch. So you just I didn't. I'm

444
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: glad you brought it up because I I knew that

445
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 1: that was a result of incarceration, but I didn't know

446
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: there was an actual name. You know names, Okay, yes, ma'am.

447
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: And so I want to give you another social sensory deprivation.

448
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: There was a lady Melinda Corona, a member of my

449
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: private a Wife after prison support group. October the two

450
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: thousand and nineteen. She did a post. She said, and

451
00:27:17,520 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: he had been home, he got home in July. She said,

452
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: he just sits in the car all night long. He

453
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: doesn't want to come in the house. And some of

454
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: the women in the group was encouraged her, what just

455
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: go out then sitting with him? Go sit with and

456
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: as I continued to study, I said, okay, he'd been

457
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: in solitary confined and uh, that was in July. That

458
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 1: was in October. She did that post December. She came

459
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: of missing m December. She was found in the trunk

460
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: of her car with three bullet holes. He had murdered her. Right,

461
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: And so I felt like that social sensory deprivation. He

462
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 1: wasn't used to being around people, and she may have

463
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,320
Speaker 1: been naggated. You know why you don't want to be

464
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: around me. Another gentleman reached out social sensory deprivation. He said, ma'am,

465
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: he said, I don't feel nothing. He said, I have

466
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: no feelings whatsoever. I have no emotions. My mom died

467
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,199
Speaker 1: when I was in prison, my dad died when I

468
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: was in prison. I couldn't greet he said. And I'm

469
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: home now, and my girl thinks I don't want to

470
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: be with her. But I don't feel nothing. And I said,

471
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 1: were you ever in solidarry conbinedment. He said, yes, ma'am

472
00:28:53,240 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 1: for nine years, No emotions, no feelings for nobody. So yeah,

473
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: it's real, and I just want people to get it.

474
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: Just get it. Man. Do you think that some people

475
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: have been broken to a point where they cannot be fixed.

476
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 1: And when I say cannot be fixed, I don't mean

477
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 1: disposable to uh not offer society anything but operating within

478
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: the capacity of maybe this person, maybe it's not best

479
00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: for them to have a relationship and inter relationship, Maybe

480
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: they need to only work in certain environments. Do you

481
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: believe that there can come come a point where some

482
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: people's mental illness has been so broken that it's hard

483
00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: for them to come back what I say? And I

484
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: have a topic that I often do. I start all

485
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: my post out with re entry and relationships right, and

486
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: when these guys get out and they're tell him, well,

487
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: I got me a lady, I just dropped my heads.

488
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 1: You read it for no relationships. Marlon again did thirty

489
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: nine years in prison, and he's back in jail right now,

490
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: reentering in relationship due to no fault of his own,

491
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: only warning somebody to love him because he's never had

492
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 1: that type of love being locked up at fifteen. He

493
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: just chose the wrong lady to love, right, I do.

494
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: I do believe that certain individuals do not need to

495
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 1: enter into a relationship until they get themselves together right.

496
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,480
Speaker 1: Because another thing, there's these trauma bond relationships. She got

497
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: some trauma going on, You got some trauma going on,

498
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: and trauma and trauma is drauna, right, And so that's

499
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: how a lot of guys end up back in prison

500
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: because they have these trauma bond relationships and uh, they're

501
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: not else the relationships. And so I mean, I'm totally

502
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: like I said again, when they tell me they in

503
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: a relationship, man, you ain't rich the relationship. You first

504
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: gotta love yourself before you know how to love anybody.

505
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: And what about the women though, that are looking to

506
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 1: fix something? What about the women who are lonely or depressed?

507
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: And because we all know that the best a lot

508
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:28,080
Speaker 1: of these guys locked up. They got the best talk

509
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: game now, I mean the honey, the talk is something

510
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: to be a money I mean to and one of them, Yeah,

511
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: And one of the things that I hear the most

512
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: is he's not the same god that I went to

513
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:53,680
Speaker 1: this He's not the same anymore. And I tell them,

514
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, I say, these guys tell you how everything

515
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: they're gonna do this, They gonna do this. You know,

516
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a master this I said. But they

517
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: don't know what. They don't know until they come out

518
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: that back eight. Right. And another thing that I tell

519
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: the women, have I asked, have you considered the trauma?

520
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: Have you considered the trauma? I didn't. I was like, okay,

521
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: well that was you you were six. Oh you you're

522
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,720
Speaker 1: good now. Oh that happened to you when you was twicet,

523
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 1: Oh you're good. That was just ignorance, ignorance. But you

524
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: gotta take in consideration the trauma. And I and I

525
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 1: asked these ladies, you know, tell me about this childhood.

526
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: If you can't tell me nothing about his childhood, you

527
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: in for some trouble or you in for a rude

528
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: awakening like I was. Do you know what type of

529
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 1: traumatic background he has? Was he molested? Do he have

530
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: abandonment issues? Right? Did his parents and not love him?

531
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 1: Do you know any of that? Have you considered the trauma?

532
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: Don't take trauma off the table. You gotta talk about

533
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,320
Speaker 1: the trauma, right. Do you know the traumatic any of

534
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: the traumatical experiences that he had while he's in contrat right?

535
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: Do you know if he's been a part of a

536
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: staff and have he been stabbed? Have he raped anybody?

537
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: Have he been raped? Do you know about that? Trauma,

538
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 1: but you in love, okay, Better know what you're dealing with.

539
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: Better know what you're dealing with. And I don't say that.

540
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:45,200
Speaker 1: I don't say that the cast, you know, negativity on anybody,

541
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: but it's a true You gotta know what you're dealing with.

542
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: And I'm not calling that person. It's I'm talking about

543
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,600
Speaker 1: the mental health aspect. Know what you're dealing with. Is

544
00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 1: he capable of loving you? Is she capable of of you?

545
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: Is he capable of handling responsibilities day to day responsibilities

546
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 1: like paying the bills? Is he capable of doing that?

547
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 1: I remember one time having a conversation with Kevin and

548
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 1: I had to capt him and we as females, we

549
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: can do that sometimes. You just saying when Kevin got

550
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 1: with me, Kevin had seven hundred dollars worth of bills

551
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: for months. He moved up in this camp with me

552
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 1: and we're hitting three thousand, but two and a half years,

553
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: I don't bother him about you gotta pay this than that.

554
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 1: He would contrive it right, but I had it, so

555
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: I didn't bother him about you got to do that.

556
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:38,919
Speaker 1: But in going into that third year with sister, got

557
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: tired of Kevin and the load. I was like, I

558
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 1: need you to be more responsible. I need you to

559
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: be the head of the household. And I never forget

560
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: that day in the look he had in his eyes.

561
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: He turned and he said, she load. He said, what

562
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: is responsibilities? He says, prison strips you of your ponsibilities.

563
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,879
Speaker 1: You're told when to get up, when to go to bed,

564
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: you know when to go to rick, when to take

565
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: a shower. And I handed capital and he told me,

566
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:17,320
Speaker 1: he said, you had me on some rutches for almost

567
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 1: three years, and then you snatched those crutches from under me.

568
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: And I had to eat that because I did that.

569
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: I did that right. Even to the point of decision making,

570
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: when you've been told what to do for decades, you

571
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: ain't got too much to think. You got to think

572
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: about making those decisions. Somebody has already made those decisions

573
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: for you. And then when you come home and you

574
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:47,320
Speaker 1: gotta make some decisions, it can be very, very challenging.

575
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: And then again, you don't want anybody to know that.

576
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: You can't even just go to the store and pick

577
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 1: out a pan of coffee because there's so many different brands,

578
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: so many different brands that you caught that that's a

579
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 1: that's a real thing. And for those who are listening,

580
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:09,239
Speaker 1: that's a real thing. Um. I remember when Spud came

581
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: home and for those listening, he'll be a part of

582
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:14,880
Speaker 1: this series. He would call me, I'm so glad you

583
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: said that. While he was in the store, and I

584
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,239
Speaker 1: remember one time he whispered and said, do do they

585
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: still cut meat? You know that he wouldn't. He didn't

586
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: know if they still cut meat behind the butcher and

587
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: he was so embarrassed he didn't want to ask, but

588
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: he would ask. So they still do this and do that.

589
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: Over stimulated just from those small tasks. So for those

590
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: who are listening understanding, I remember when I would go

591
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: see him and he would say, Oh, it ain't gonna

592
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: be nothing when I get home. All I need to

593
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 1: do is learn how to do one of these phones

594
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: y'all got, and go in the bad room with fifteen

595
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,239
Speaker 1: and is learn how to do it. And I come

596
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,839
Speaker 1: out and it's all good. And I would sit there

597
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 1: and say, it's so much more to that. It's so

598
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: much more that. But while he was serving time, because

599
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: I was his friend at the time, I didn't want to.

600
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: I know he needed to be inspired while he was

601
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: herban time. So I didn't come and say you're not

602
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: gonna be able to do this. You're not gonna be

603
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,960
Speaker 1: able to do that. Life is gonna be like this.

604
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: Life is gonna be like that because people need to

605
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: be able to do their time. So for those who

606
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: are listening during your time is important. But what you're saying,

607
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,200
Speaker 1: Sheila is still prepared while you're there to do that

608
00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: mental work. So when you come home you can adjust.

609
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: Because I remember very clearly with Spoil, He's like, oh,

610
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,960
Speaker 1: I want to come to I said, don't know, baby,

611
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,240
Speaker 1: you gotta live. You went right to your ex's house.

612
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 1: And then after that, I said, you need to go

613
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 1: live by yourself before you come my way. You need

614
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: to live by yourself for at least a year. And

615
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: he did, you need to learn how to pay bills

616
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: by yourself. I said, this is what you need to know. Period.

617
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: You don't want to be in a position where a woman.

618
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: Brothers who are listening, that a woman that can put

619
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: you out where she has control, you know over if

620
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 1: you got a place of state, you need that independence

621
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: so you can say, hey, I can take care of myself,

622
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: I can do things to myself. How do you learn

623
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: how to remember showing. He went to a jail for

624
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: selling drugs, so he always had a bunch of money.

625
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: So it was very different to him to learn how

626
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,360
Speaker 1: to pay Rob Peter, to pay Paul stuff that regular

627
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: folks have been doing their whole life. Okay, just because

628
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: the billers do on the tenth, you really got to

629
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 1: the twenty of to pay it. Make sure you got gas,

630
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 1: make sure you spread your money. Here's an all the

631
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 1: billers do on the tent, So I'm gonna pay all

632
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: the bills on the tenth. But now you don't have anything,

633
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, down the road. So learning how to adjust

634
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,000
Speaker 1: his money, learning how to get a second job, maybe

635
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:26,839
Speaker 1: saying I'm not no second job type person where you're

636
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: gonna be in this economy because you're not selling dope

637
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: no more, you know. So it's those things that he

638
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: found helpful. But I had to challenge him to do

639
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: that when you talk about the crushes, and I still

640
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: did my share of providing crushes, no doubt about it.

641
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,840
Speaker 1: But those things of really getting that independence to help

642
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: his confidence, which when men have a lack of confidence,

643
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: not feeling like the provider, not feeling like the man

644
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: of the house, not feeling like a charge. That tool

645
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 1: plays a part in how he treats you, and that

646
00:38:55,320 --> 00:39:00,080
Speaker 1: aggression and that anger because he's mad at himself. M

647
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: what is another symptom that they can recognize from the

648
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: post incarceration syndrome? A couple of more. I know our

649
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: time is winding up, but I want to give people

650
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: a couple of things that they can kind of point

651
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: to to to recognize being institutionalized, that institutionalization, uh trait.

652
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,280
Speaker 1: You know. One guy reached out to me on LinkedIn

653
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:36,800
Speaker 1: and he said, ma'am, he said, I ordered the book

654
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: and I read it. He said, but I did twenty

655
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:44,800
Speaker 1: one and a half years and he and his wife

656
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 1: lived in a small apartment and he was so institutionalized.

657
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 1: He created his sale in delivering room. Wo re created

658
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: everything and he said, messed up, he said, And my

659
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 1: wife has divorced me because when she would ask him

660
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: about tidying up, and this shouldn't be in the living room,

661
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: this shouldn't be right here, you know, he said, I

662
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:19,439
Speaker 1: would go into a rage and she divoiced me. He said,

663
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: and I'm messed up. And I said, okay, what's the

664
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: next step. What's the next step? I said, this next

665
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 1: step is for you to seek mental health treatment. And

666
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,360
Speaker 1: that brother told me I can't And I said why

667
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: is that and he said because I work in the

668
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: mayor's office. I said, okay, so lights camera's action, so

669
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:46,000
Speaker 1: you perform it, right you? You? You you got this

670
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: job and you don't want to take care of your

671
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: mena state mental state and your wife and divorce you. Okay,

672
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 1: you light's camera and action. So when they are used

673
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:01,720
Speaker 1: to doing things for decades, men Kevin had an issue.

674
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 1: He would open the cabinet, not close back, open a draw,

675
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 1: not close back. I just go this. In the first stage,

676
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: I just go back and ship. Then I was like,

677
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: you know when you haven't happened, and I told him

678
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 1: what it was. I said, you opened the pantry and

679
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: I said, I just share it. You know. This was

680
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: in the honeymoon stage. And he said, don't do it

681
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,879
Speaker 1: for me. He said, don't do it for me. He said,

682
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,760
Speaker 1: tell me to do it. And so when I started,

683
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: when things got rough and I started telling him about it,

684
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: he was at that our rate stage. Somebody's been telling

685
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: me what to do for twenty eight years. And I said,

686
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: what you told me to tell you? And one lady said,

687
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm so frustrated. She said, every time he leaves out

688
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: of the room, he leaves the light on. I said, ma'am,

689
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 1: how long was it gone? She said, twenty five years.

690
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: I said, in twenty five years, he had a LFE

691
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 1: switch to cut. That's deep. People don't realize that. They

692
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: don't realize the smallest, the smallest things even you know

693
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: when they what they call program. You know, I need

694
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,319
Speaker 1: a program every day. They need to be able to

695
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: know I'm getting up at this time, I'm doing this

696
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: this time. You know, my my toothbrush is over here.

697
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: I like to keep my stuff. And even clutter can

698
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: bother them because they're used to having to share a

699
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: certain space and have things done by you know, a

700
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: certain amount of time. It's deep. You have a I

701
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: know we have to wrap up, and I want to

702
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: bring you back probably the only guess I'm gonna bring

703
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: back more than once, because you have it's so many

704
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: The mental part is it really is. And in the

705
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: mediation we call appeal the onion. And you have so

706
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: many things that you offer from being indirectly impacted in

707
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,240
Speaker 1: addition to working with people in prison is so deep.

708
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna share with us. One of the sessions that

709
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: you do is called Trauma and Triggers. Each month is

710
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:06,879
Speaker 1: something totally different. Last month we talked about trauma, understanding

711
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: what trauma is, and then this week we're gonna do

712
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: trauma and Triggers, and next and next month we're gonna

713
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 1: do light's camera action so that they come out and

714
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: they think they have to be in from the camera

715
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,320
Speaker 1: and social media and they got to do you know whatever.

716
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: But Tess, if I may, if you just give me

717
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: a few sessions, sessions. This is what a return and

718
00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: citizen said to me. He said, prison completed the destruction

719
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 1: of my personality and has conditioned me that I am

720
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: near incapable of living in the free world. Prison has

721
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: become the only place in which I can exist comfortably.

722
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: The strain of living outside of prison ball is painful

723
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: and intense. Mm hmm. Yeah. And then check this out

724
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:57,439
Speaker 1: one more now. When this lady said it's to me,

725
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,440
Speaker 1: it just made my flesh cross. She said he's a

726
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:06,960
Speaker 1: barbaric involved predator that the system unleashed from the change

727
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:12,080
Speaker 1: that had him about m Yeah, I remember Spugg used

728
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,640
Speaker 1: to say, And I'm gonna talk to him about this

729
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 1: during our interview. Because he's very transparent, he would always

730
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,920
Speaker 1: say when he was doing time, I don't know how

731
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: these guys come back. I don't understand how they come back. Man,

732
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:24,799
Speaker 1: if I was out there, ain't no way I'll be

733
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: coming back. They all talking about the pressure. I don't

734
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: understand what they're talking about. One year in, two years in,

735
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: he said, I see what they're talking about. I see

736
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: the pressure. I see the anxiety. They're not knowing what's next.

737
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: They're not uh simple things to me. Me being self employed,

738
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: I may not have a contract for two or three months.

739
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: I may have to go the just the simple things

740
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 1: that we take for granted, to be able to adjust,

741
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: to go get another job or another hustle or do whatever.

742
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: It breaks them down, the unknown and and the hardest

743
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: thing that he had the time of adjusting. I'm gonna

744
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,680
Speaker 1: make sure to ask him this. He would always say.

745
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,359
Speaker 1: It's almost like every time I take a step forward,

746
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 1: I go two steps back. And I had to tell

747
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: him that's what we do in life. Life is like that,

748
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: Like I expect you know when I when something good

749
00:45:12,320 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: happens for a certain amounts, I used to say, Okay,

750
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying this feeling is probably gonna be good three

751
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: four months, not wishing anything about myself. But I understand cycles.

752
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,720
Speaker 1: I understand cycles. I understand that I have a good season,

753
00:45:23,719 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: I have a bad season, I have a good season.

754
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: For him, and in my personal experience watching him, that

755
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:32,719
Speaker 1: was hard for him adjusted that the cycle because the

756
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:37,960
Speaker 1: antisocial personality, that is the criminal that goes against the norm,

757
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: he didn't have to adjust to the cycles of that.

758
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 1: If stuff ain't working, hey, I go get a lick,

759
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: I'll go get more money. I'll adjust, I'll beat somebody

760
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: up or whatever. I don't like what you say, no problem,

761
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 1: my body slam you on the ground, you know, So

762
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 1: that he didn't have to adjust, you know, to the

763
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: cycles of of life, the waves that we've become very

764
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 1: comfortable and swimming in. And yeah, and now that he's paralyzed,

765
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: because he didn't expect to come home obviously and be paralyzed.

766
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:11,839
Speaker 1: The Lord has set him down literally to have to

767
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: deal with himself in a way. He was always go go, go, move, move, move,

768
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,359
Speaker 1: go here, go here, never want to be alone, never

769
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: wanted to sit down, because that's being institutionalized as well.

770
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:22,960
Speaker 1: Used to always having some of that around. Can't be

771
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 1: in a quiet room, gotta have some kind of noise

772
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: going on, the TV on something always um And now

773
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: that he's been forced to take things slow, one of

774
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 1: the hardest things for him was certainly being in the chair.

775
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 1: But one of the things that he says that really

776
00:46:37,719 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: bothers him is how he has to take his time

777
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:44,120
Speaker 1: to plan putting on. His socks are planning and putting on,

778
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: you know. He can't just throw his clothes on and

779
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 1: and go out the door. And it's those small things,

780
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: Sheila for him that has allowed him. I thought he

781
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 1: was gonna be much worse after he got paralyzed with

782
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 1: anger and frustration, but it actually not that I'm wishing

783
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: that on him, but it it actually healed him a

784
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: lot of ways because he was now forced to slow

785
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: down and to have conversations and really think, how did

786
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: I get to this chair? How did it all start?

787
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: You know, way way back even though it was an accident,

788
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,280
Speaker 1: the people weren't looking for him when he got shot.

789
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: He still have to go back and see, how did

790
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,640
Speaker 1: I even get involved in this to be around somebody

791
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: that they were looking for. How does all these dots connect?

792
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 1: And how is it affecting me at fifty years old?

793
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,000
Speaker 1: We talked to somebody fifty years old. And when you've

794
00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: been connected in that environment where aggression has been your only,

795
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: your number one defense, and now you're in a chair

796
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:43,160
Speaker 1: where your your your natural response is not just intimidation

797
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: of physical It's been a real transformation in addition of

798
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: doing all that time. So I'm proud of him as

799
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: my friend, not my love or not my man. He's

800
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: my friend. And I tell people this, but those are listening,

801
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: and I said it on the other episode that they

802
00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:59,120
Speaker 1: would listen to as well for those listening, and I

803
00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: want to bring you back the love whoever it is

804
00:48:01,719 --> 00:48:06,399
Speaker 1: that's helping you. Be open to that help. But at

805
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: the same time, if they tell you our season has passed,

806
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: that person cannot be guilted that because when it came

807
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,400
Speaker 1: down to me, I said, listen, I'm gonna help you,

808
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: but we have to have boundaries because now your peace now.

809
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: Our last guest, Lewis Reed, said, don't allow I love

810
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: the quote and Marcy Quota is saying, allowing somebody else's

811
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: problem to enter your piece. He was saying that as

812
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,399
Speaker 1: the former incarcerated person. And I said I also want

813
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: to say, as the person that supports the incarcerated person

814
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: to watso not allow your problems to disturb my piece.

815
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: And so when people if my pieces deserved and your

816
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: pieces of desert, we can't help each other. So understand

817
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: that when somebody changes the season to say, maybe we

818
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,439
Speaker 1: can't be married, maybe we can't be a couple, maybe

819
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: we can it up. But I can be your friend,

820
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: I can pray for you, I can give you advice,

821
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: but you have to respect these boundaries or lose the

822
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 1: friendship totally. Because I don't have nothing else to give you.

823
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 1: I don't have nothing else to give you, and so

824
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 1: we have to uh as you're having, as we're having

825
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: these conversations that I hope, as you're having a conversation

826
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: because you talked to you talked to way more incarcerated

827
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: people than I do, that they understand that when I

828
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,239
Speaker 1: leave you in that space, I'm not leaving you. I'm

829
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: I'm saving myself. But I still can be a help.

830
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 1: But if I decide I don't want to be, the

831
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: season has passed and you have to do the work yourself,

832
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,560
Speaker 1: because that's what a lot of it. I'm looking for.

833
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,399
Speaker 1: A mama I'm looking for a new CEO. I'm looking

834
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 1: for somebody to telling me what to do and how

835
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: to get up to And hey, baby, I'm not raising

836
00:49:35,719 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 1: nobody else. Everybody don't want to raise, you know, go

837
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 1: through go through that with adults. So understand I guess

838
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:49,880
Speaker 1: from my own indirect advice to to understand, uh that

839
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: that that seasons do change, but it doesn't mean we

840
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 1: don't believe. And that's why I'm so proud of you,

841
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: because even through your pain, as as tears come to

842
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: your eyes, you're not allowing that passed pain to harden

843
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,880
Speaker 1: your heart to still help somebody else, you know. And

844
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 1: you know what, and Kevin and I, it's not ugly.

845
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: It was ugly, you know, to say the season end right.

846
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 1: And one thing that I said to him, and because

847
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: prior to that, Lord has said boundaries to me, and

848
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: I was like, boundaries, okay, So I started teaching boundaries

849
00:50:22,080 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: in the group and the private group boundaries Brown. I

850
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,799
Speaker 1: didn't know it was for me, right, And so when

851
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: Kevin did what he did June twenty twenty one, whatever

852
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: it was, I had to put those people in this life.

853
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: And I told him it's not up to me to

854
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 1: remember that you're on parole. It's up to you to

855
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: remember that you're on parole, because I can't let you

856
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: treat me in any kind of way. And said, well,

857
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: I can't do that because he's on parole. No, no, no, no, no, no,

858
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: First and foremost, you must remember that. And so I

859
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: say to these guys that tell me, say I'm aggressive,

860
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 1: I know I'm aggressing my girls. I'm aggressing. Okay, okay,

861
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: it's up to you to remember that you don't pay.

862
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,959
Speaker 1: She don't pay, right, so she can't let you treat

863
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:16,479
Speaker 1: her any kind of way. Right, And that's my thing.

864
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,880
Speaker 1: You know you can't treat me. I have boundaries, and

865
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 1: Kevin cross the boundary. He called cross the boundary. And

866
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:29,800
Speaker 1: if I don't impose some consequences for you're crossing that boundary.

867
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:32,600
Speaker 1: Guess what you're gonna try to live over? And you

868
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: can't do that. You can't live in my face. Literally,

869
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 1: you can't live in my face. Well, good for you.

870
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 1: You have a lot of insight. Uh. For those who

871
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:46,480
Speaker 1: are listening, I hope you were able to gain some knowledge.

872
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:48,920
Speaker 1: I know it touched on some truth. For show you're

873
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:53,120
Speaker 1: arguing with somebody on core links or your mama, girlfriend

874
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: or friend or whatever. I hope that Miss Sheila was

875
00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: able to give you a perspective because this phone, this

876
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: particular conversation, and I want to bring you back to

877
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: go even deeper. But the intent of this, and I

878
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 1: didn't know we were gonna spend so much time on

879
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: the relationship side, which I'm glad we did, But the

880
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:12,399
Speaker 1: intent of this is to make sure that they see

881
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 1: from the other perspective. It's kind of like if you

882
00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: go see somebody in prison, there's a wall, you know,

883
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,520
Speaker 1: a glass between both of us. You're on one side

884
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: and I'm on the other. And a part of healing,

885
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 1: and I talked about this in politics all the time.

886
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: I'm always telling people you you gotta understand first the

887
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: lens that they see it from. You don't have to

888
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 1: see Your glasses may are not for me, but I

889
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 1: know you got on glasses. I recognize that you see

890
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: something different, and at least for me in politics, when

891
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: I'm trying to share stories of others and advocate for others,

892
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,879
Speaker 1: it's not that I live that experience. It's because I'm

893
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: trying to relate to you how they see it. You

894
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: don't have to like it, but you gotta understand how

895
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: they see it. And so that's why this series is

896
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:54,920
Speaker 1: a good balance of those who have been indirectly affected

897
00:52:54,960 --> 00:52:58,799
Speaker 1: and directly because Sheila, I just don't believe that enough conversation.

898
00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: It's kind of like you have your out hall anonymous groups,

899
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 1: but very few groups the people that support the alcoholic,

900
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,000
Speaker 1: like what do they do? Because if the support system

901
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: is broke down, then the person is suffering the most.

902
00:53:11,719 --> 00:53:14,719
Speaker 1: They have nothing. If if the support system is not

903
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,879
Speaker 1: there to advocate to to provide the resources to do

904
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:20,480
Speaker 1: the the stronger person and a lot of times the

905
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: stronger person is beat down and now you've taken all

906
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: my strength. And that that was the conversation. If you

907
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,040
Speaker 1: beat me down, you don't have nothing, and I don't

908
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: have nothing. So somebody got to be strong. So let's

909
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 1: get some boundaries. So and when you have but yeah,

910
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 1: I'm saying that when you come home with that negative energy,

911
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,080
Speaker 1: you your negative negative energy has the is a high

912
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: probability that the person that's been supporting you, you're gonna

913
00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: tear that down. Right. I had someone to reach out

914
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:59,760
Speaker 1: tis to me, big brand, big brand Christian television station,

915
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,879
Speaker 1: and they wanted to talk. And when I said, okay,

916
00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: when we can talk about the family, they don't want

917
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,680
Speaker 1: to talk about the family. Well you can't. We can't

918
00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: talk because you can't take the families off to take

919
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: You gotta talk family reunification and pass to go with

920
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,680
Speaker 1: the re entry peace. And if you can't talk about

921
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: the families, you can't talk up to me because I

922
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,839
Speaker 1: am the family. I'm wanted them right. So again, that

923
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: negative energy that you guys come out with, it attaches

924
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:32,920
Speaker 1: itself to your family members, causing them bycarious trauma, and

925
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:36,839
Speaker 1: it can also take them, you know, deeper into their

926
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: traumatic experiences. Had never been there there was, So you

927
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: have to be mine because we have our experience. We

928
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,399
Speaker 1: have our experiences too. It's not just you. Just because

929
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,240
Speaker 1: I didn't do time don't mean I don't have trauma.

930
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:49,440
Speaker 1: Let me say that again. Just because I didn't do

931
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 1: time don't mean I don't have trauma. And you keep

932
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:56,919
Speaker 1: on playing I might get some time. Let's just keep that. Really,

933
00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: I don't want to go to the pen. So sometimes

934
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 1: we just need to split the us on up. You

935
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,360
Speaker 1: don't keep everybody free for the sake of everybody. But

936
00:55:04,280 --> 00:55:06,719
Speaker 1: but that's real. This was a great conversation. I want

937
00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 1: you to come back, uh and share the are not

938
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,640
Speaker 1: literally come back, but give us the episode to the

939
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 1: triggers and trauma. I think that goes perfect in this series.

940
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,880
Speaker 1: They need to hear from you as often as you

941
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: want to share, as long as you want to share. Uh,

942
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: please do because you have so much insight. And and

943
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 1: when we talk again, I want to talk about what

944
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: I tried to what I thought I was gonna be

945
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: talking about today, which is the job training that you

946
00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:37,399
Speaker 1: do and a lot of dudes and dunts that you've

947
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: seen and and how that has shaped out, you know,

948
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: for because you you actually follow the people once they

949
00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,840
Speaker 1: go home. So I'm curious to know you know the

950
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: things that you've taught them and if you have lessons

951
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: on what can and cannell you know, sharing you know,

952
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: some some good and some and some honest street on

953
00:55:53,840 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: on what to prevent. So I would love to have

954
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: you come back on that because job training is is

955
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:01,040
Speaker 1: so important. And as you know when we did the training,

956
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: people can have human resources background all day long, but

957
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 1: working with incarcerating didivisions are totally different, different ballgame, And

958
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: the only reason why I was able to adjust so well.

959
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: Because I've worked with incarcerating people, I have the human

960
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: resources background. But those are two totally different things. So

961
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 1: I would love to you to come back and talk

962
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: about that. So guys who are listening expect to hear

963
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 1: more from triggers and trauma. You Sheila, you said, it's

964
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,720
Speaker 1: it's a where y'all talk about how how certain words

965
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:33,360
Speaker 1: can trigger people off, like boy or look, this is

966
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,399
Speaker 1: a perfect one. If I say, in passing, you may say,

967
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:39,399
Speaker 1: oh boy, please you know where you just might say

968
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,879
Speaker 1: that in passing, oh boy please hash that can send

969
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: somebody through the roof. Boy who you calling? Am I

970
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 1: telling the truth? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, And that's what we're

971
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: doing with educating the family members on you know, what

972
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 1: the state and what not to say. Because even with Kevin,

973
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,319
Speaker 1: you know, if I said, hey, can you start buy

974
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 1: what I wanted to bring some paper time, he might

975
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:05,960
Speaker 1: have problem with it. Don't stop. But when I saw

976
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,080
Speaker 1: a scene, honey, do your mind, because he had options,

977
00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,760
Speaker 1: then yeah, you know I gave him an option whether honey,

978
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: do your mind? Okay, yeah, what you want to sewater

979
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: back what you want. So it's certain words, it's a

980
00:57:21,200 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: certain way we got to say certain things my producers

981
00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 1: a listener, but Marcy, ain't this the truth? And then

982
00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,640
Speaker 1: I talk about this. I talked about this in our

983
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: other episode. I said I had to learn how to

984
00:57:31,040 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: adjust because I have a strong tone, a strong personality,

985
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: and I had to learn how to say, hey, honey,

986
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:37,920
Speaker 1: do you mind uh such as I literally gave the

987
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: example that's how I know I'm telling the truth. I

988
00:57:39,640 --> 00:57:42,640
Speaker 1: gave the same as I had to adjust. I did

989
00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: the work, but he got to do the work. But

990
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 1: then also if the person decide they don't no longer

991
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:51,080
Speaker 1: want to do the work, because that's okay to people.

992
00:57:51,200 --> 00:57:53,200
Speaker 1: You people also have to understand people want to move on,

993
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,640
Speaker 1: Like everybody may not want to have a list of

994
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: what I can and can I say and do not say.

995
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 1: Let's be clear, this is for two individuals that want

996
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,280
Speaker 1: to do the work together, that are committed to doing

997
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,000
Speaker 1: the work together. In any relationship, you're gonna have to work.

998
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:09,880
Speaker 1: That's just relationship is a part of work is a

999
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 1: part of it. But this is a very unique, a

1000
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: unique situation. And like you said, it's important that you

1001
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: know the trauma that you're getting into. But I think

1002
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,680
Speaker 1: that across the board period. So this was a wonderful conversation.

1003
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:25,200
Speaker 1: She La Bruno wife after prison. I know you can

1004
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 1: get her book on Amazon, but still this is somebody

1005
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:31,200
Speaker 1: that you reach out to for sure. I know she

1006
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 1: touched on a lot of stuff that that certainly touched me.

1007
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: Thank you for your transparency, uh, your tears. There's power

1008
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: in that. Uh. It shows vulnerability that a lot of

1009
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 1: people don't have. And thank you for having a vulnerability

1010
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,640
Speaker 1: to share you know, your experience, because you are absolutely right.

1011
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: A lot of women I tell women all the time,

1012
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: everybody go through something. When I hear women say, girl,

1013
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:55,919
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be putting up with that, Well, you ain't

1014
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 1: putting up with that, but you're putting up with something.

1015
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 1: Everybody putting up with something. So everybody got there something,

1016
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: and that is the hardest thing, particularly with Black women,

1017
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: because we are told we are strong black woman, no

1018
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: other break. You don't hear strong white woman, strong Hispanic woman,

1019
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:16,160
Speaker 1: strong Asian woman. You only hear strong Black woman. And

1020
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:19,280
Speaker 1: because of that, we think that we're supposed to hold

1021
00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,680
Speaker 1: everything on our shoulder, every burden on our shoulder, every pain,

1022
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: every trauma, my trauma, your trauma, to kids, trauma, the

1023
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: world's trauma, politics, trauma, and I had to adjust my

1024
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: life and a lot of that was a part of Okay, listen,

1025
00:59:33,920 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 1: it was just called codependency. I'm always trying to fix

1026
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,760
Speaker 1: something broken and it serves me ways and politics, but

1027
00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:43,400
Speaker 1: in the personal space, okay, hold on, there has to

1028
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: be some drama because it's not some boundaries, because it's

1029
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 1: not gonna be anything left. So h So, I love

1030
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: the conversation. I look forward to you coming back. Thank

1031
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:53,760
Speaker 1: you again so much. She we can go on and on.

1032
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,960
Speaker 1: I know my my producers to shut up, but she

1033
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,160
Speaker 1: was texting me, said, I forgot about the time. I'm

1034
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: so engrossed in the conversation because you really do have

1035
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: a powerful story. And I hope more people here more

1036
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: and I'm in straight Shot notations is always open to

1037
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 1: you to share, So I'm honored. I'm honored. Thank you

1038
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: for the opportunity. Just let me and I'll be here. Okay,

1039
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 1: all right, thank you guys for listening again. Straight Shot

1040
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: No Chaser provided to you this special series on behalf

1041
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,800
Speaker 1: of the George Floyd Foundation piece. If you like what

1042
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,320
Speaker 1: you heard on Straight Shot No Chaser, please subscribe and

1043
01:00:28,400 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: drop a five star review and Tell a Friend. Straight

1044
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:33,000
Speaker 1: Shot No Chaser is a production of the Black Effect

1045
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: podcast networking. I Heart Radio, a Tesla figure out and

1046
01:00:35,960 --> 01:00:38,560
Speaker 1: I like to thank our producer, the one and Only

1047
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:42,320
Speaker 1: Marcy Dpina are mixed Master Dwayne Crawford and our executive

1048
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,760
Speaker 1: producer charlottage Na Good. For more podcast from I Heart Radio,

1049
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

1050
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.