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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business of Sports where in a situation

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Speaker 1: that we haven't dealt with in modern times, the pandemic

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Speaker 1: here has really accelerated the investments that we've been havocating

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Speaker 1: for for a year. From a macro standpoint, I think

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Speaker 1: our sport industry is really forced to look at the

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Speaker 1: business a little bit differently. In depth conversations with the

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Speaker 1: leaders in the sports industry and he sport, there's a

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Speaker 1: good admiration were still moving forward part of something much

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Speaker 1: bigger than the sport right now, the health and sadustry

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Speaker 1: of our stakeholders are real smart important every moment. I

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Speaker 1: think we're all from a business respective thinking about the

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Speaker 1: impact that the virus is having across the country. In

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business of Sports from Bloomberg Radio, Hi everyone, I'm

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Speaker 1: Jason Kelly, and I'm Mike Lynch and I'm Michael Barr

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Speaker 1: And this is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where

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Speaker 1: we explore the big money issues in the world of sports.

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Speaker 1: And today, guys, it is a Madness Monday, emphasis on

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Speaker 1: the madness March. Madness kicked off, yet it was a

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Speaker 1: little bit different. Yet we lost a team to COVID

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Speaker 1: protocol violations, which was unfortunate Virginia Commonwealth. But the games,

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Speaker 1: for the most part went on. There were some insane upsets. Lyngit, uh,

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Speaker 1: is your bracket busted? How are you looking well? As

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Speaker 1: I was telling Michael Barb before we went on, it

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Speaker 1: looks like a math test I had with red ink

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Speaker 1: all over it. That's pretty much. Or it looks like

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Speaker 1: I cut myself shaving when I was filling in my brackets.

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Speaker 1: It's awful. But if that's This is the great part

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Speaker 1: about single elimination is that you know a lot of

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Speaker 1: these teams, if they played a three out of five,

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Speaker 1: probably the favorite team would win. But that's not how

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Speaker 1: the n C Double A works. And I love it

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Speaker 1: because these teams, you know, Oral Roberts, Abalone, Christian Loyola

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Speaker 1: or Chicago, even Syracuse coming up and winning two games

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Speaker 1: and beating Beauty West Virginia with the coach's son scoring.

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Speaker 1: It's it's the greatest show on Earth. I look forward

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Speaker 1: to it every much, I know, like everybody else does.

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Speaker 1: And we got twelve hours of basketball today on Monday too,

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Speaker 1: so I know what my day is gonna be like

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Speaker 1: when we sign off. Yeah, Lynchy goes horizontal once again.

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Speaker 1: Um so far. I mean it's interesting too. And I'm

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Speaker 1: sure you've been looking at this from the business of

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Speaker 1: sports perspective. Ratings were you know, pretty good. They weren't

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Speaker 1: quite as good as twenty nineteen, but I mean it's

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Speaker 1: still the thing that everybody's watching. We're getting our groove

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Speaker 1: back watching sports on TV, especially now that we've got

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Speaker 1: the n C Double A Tournament. And my goodness, Oral Roberts.

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Speaker 1: I mean this is like Mayberry, you know, going deep

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Speaker 1: into the tournament and and I this is amazing to me.

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Speaker 1: If if if that team makes the Elite eight, oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness, that's gonna be the story of the year.

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Speaker 1: And Oral Roberts, now they got their name on the

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Speaker 1: map basketball wise, that's got to help their sports program,

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Speaker 1: and that's got to help bring in dollars. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I have to say one of the things that really

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Speaker 1: wom my heart. And I like everyone else on the

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Speaker 1: planet who's not in some way associated Oral Roberts, did

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Speaker 1: not have them at this point, uh in their bracket.

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Speaker 1: But seeing those live shots back to campus, you know,

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Speaker 1: it really did take me back to you know, why

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Speaker 1: we love this so much and why there is so

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Speaker 1: much money that is invested and candidate invested from a

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Speaker 1: sponsorship standpoint, and so much money generated because Lynchy, as

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Speaker 1: you know, march Manness is the single biggest revenue generator

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Speaker 1: by a factor of many for the n C Double A.

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Speaker 1: This is where all the money comes in every year.

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Speaker 1: This funds everything because the college Football Playoff is a

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Speaker 1: whole separate thing. This is where the n C Double

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Speaker 1: it makes its money and rightly so. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: freaking exciting. It's it's exciting. And despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: we have COVID, we have no bands, no fans. Every

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Speaker 1: single spot with CBS and t n T and TBS

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Speaker 1: and True TV is sold out and was sold out

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Speaker 1: before the tournament started. And I think that's really a

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Speaker 1: testament to to the event itself and the popularity of

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Speaker 1: the event. It's different to watch this year. You don't

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Speaker 1: want to go to that wide shot. You just don't

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Speaker 1: you know, it's time out, you don't hear the school

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Speaker 1: band playing. She really adds a lot of enthusiasm to it.

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Speaker 1: But sponsors are out there and they're paying money, and

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Speaker 1: the spots are full. Yeah yeah, I mean, my favorite

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Speaker 1: moment I think is a little bit of a throwback

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Speaker 1: and it is loyal the Chicago, which again I didn't

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Speaker 1: have them going deep. But you can't bet against sister Jean.

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Speaker 1: You know, Sister Gene was there once again. She is

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Speaker 1: a hundred and one years old. She is widely considered

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Speaker 1: college basketball's most beloved fan. I gotta read this. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to find it so I can actually read it.

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Speaker 1: Her prayer to the team was so amazing because it

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Speaker 1: basically said, so, here's here is part of the here's

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Speaker 1: part of the prayer. I'm just gonna get it. This

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Speaker 1: is in a prayer quote. We hope to score early

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Speaker 1: and make our opponents nervous. We have a great opportunity

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Speaker 1: to convert rebounds, as this team makes about fifty of

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Speaker 1: the hips and thirty of its three pointers. Our defense

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Speaker 1: can take care of that. Amen. I mean, like, that's incredible, Lynchy, like,

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Speaker 1: first of all, deep knowledge of the game. Second of all,

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Speaker 1: it's it reminds me of and if my parents and

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Speaker 1: my brothers are listening to this, it were they will

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Speaker 1: know this story. It reminds me of when my one

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Speaker 1: of my brothers was playing high school football down in

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Speaker 1: Georgia and the at a Catholic school and the chaplain

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Speaker 1: for the team got up at the end of the

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Speaker 1: year banquet after a tough season, and he basically gave

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Speaker 1: this a similar sort of prayer, and he said, Lord,

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Speaker 1: we didn't do very well this year, and we really

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Speaker 1: need your strength next year to beat our opponents and

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Speaker 1: beat them badly. So you know, again, don't sleep one

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Speaker 1: Sister Jean, because loyal Chicago, they're still hanging around. And

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Speaker 1: this is why, this is why we love the tournament Lynching.

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Speaker 1: There's always some some character and some story that surfaces.

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Speaker 1: We all fell in love with her a few years

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Speaker 1: ago when they had their great run. When I went

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Speaker 1: to Countholic elementary schools, I think of nuns with a

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Speaker 1: ruler in their hands. Yeah, palms up or palms down.

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Speaker 1: I always try to go palms up the other that

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Speaker 1: the knuckles they get hurt. But you know, I can't

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Speaker 1: imagine Sister Jean with a ruler at any point in

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Speaker 1: her career. No. But and she is absolutely the spiritual

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Speaker 1: leader of that team, uh for sure. So it's interesting

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Speaker 1: when we think about the n C Double A tournament.

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Speaker 1: Increasingly there's more and more attention rightly paid to the

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Speaker 1: women's version of this that, of course, is being played

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Speaker 1: in a bubble in San Antonio, similar to how it's

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Speaker 1: being played in a bubble in Indianapolis for the men.

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Speaker 1: But you know what's not similar, Michael Barr, the way

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Speaker 1: that the respective genders are being treated when it comes

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Speaker 1: two facilities. And that went viral big time over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Did you see the pictures between the two the weight

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Speaker 1: the weight centers for the women and the weight centers

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Speaker 1: for the men. I don't boy that we need to

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Speaker 1: correct that real fast, which which rerings me to the

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Speaker 1: next point, is that that many women's sports are picking

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Speaker 1: up the n C double A women's tournament is picking

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Speaker 1: up momentum and it's it's right now, it's almost as

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Speaker 1: popular as it's ever been. So why we have that disparity? Uh?

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Speaker 1: And coach Muffin McGall put that out there, and bless,

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Speaker 1: I don't understand why we got that problem. Well, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the interesting thing Lynch she is. You know, it would

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Speaker 1: have been kind of secondhand, third hand, fourth hand in

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Speaker 1: a pre social media era, but one player just put

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Speaker 1: it out there and man, it picked up TikTok, it

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Speaker 1: picked up on Twitter, and all of a sudden, very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I mean within hours, really, the world was talking about this,

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Speaker 1: and that's part of I think the very important thing

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Speaker 1: we've seen in terms of how the economics of sports changed,

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Speaker 1: how parody changes, how it quality changes, because it's out

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Speaker 1: there now. Well, the video you're referring to shows this

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Speaker 1: amazing smorgasbord spread of food for the men, and then

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Speaker 1: like a pilot toast for the women, and this expansive

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Speaker 1: ballroom full of every weight you could possibly imagine, and

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Speaker 1: then a pile of dumbbells and yoga mats for the women.

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Speaker 1: I did not know this in researching this story, but

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Speaker 1: the n C Double A tournament does not fall under

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Speaker 1: titled nine, which kind of really surprised me that that

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Speaker 1: that shocked me. So um, I know there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of finger pointing going on. First of all, fixed the

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Speaker 1: problem first, and then find out somebody had to approve this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they can sell trainers, they can sell to

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Speaker 1: administrative officials from schools. Somebody have to say Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is good. Yeah, this is good for the weights, this

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Speaker 1: is good for the training room, this is good for

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Speaker 1: the meals, this is good for the schwag bag who

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Speaker 1: did that who said this is fine. Yeah, I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: there's been a lot of criticism fairly leveled against the

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Speaker 1: n C double A around this. I I too, was

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Speaker 1: very surprised about the lack of Title nine oversight here.

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Speaker 1: Title nine, of course, uh has been around for decades

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Speaker 1: and is meant to bring equal access and and equal

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Speaker 1: opportunity to sports for men and women at the collegiate level.

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Speaker 1: And uh, you know, one of the interesting things to

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Speaker 1: me because I love the business aspects of all this,

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Speaker 1: and I love opportunistic business. But you saw I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you guys saw this Orange Theory, you know,

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Speaker 1: which is a well known kind of national chain of

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Speaker 1: boutique gems. They basically tweeted and said, we are opening

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Speaker 1: up all of our facilities in the San Antonio area.

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Speaker 1: You can come and train their uh Tonal, which is

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Speaker 1: a very uh well known up and coming at home

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Speaker 1: fitness gim. They were sending ten it's based on a

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Speaker 1: mirror it's sort of like mirror Um. They were sending

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Speaker 1: ten Tonal systems to arrive in San Antonio. They tweeted

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Speaker 1: that they were going to do that. So, you know,

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Speaker 1: capitalism is a beautiful thing, and some smart marketing managers

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Speaker 1: and CEOs and uh and folks in the fitness world

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Speaker 1: are are taking advantage of this moment. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: this won't happen again. They did fix it over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: but a real black eye here. And you know, as

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Speaker 1: you sort of go down the rabbit holes of of

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Speaker 1: this story, you do see people on Twitter because people

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Speaker 1: love their hot takes on Twitter talking about how it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: it makes less money and so they shouldn't do as much.

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Speaker 1: And you know, but as you pointed out, Michael Barr,

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Speaker 1: the ratings are going up, and the reality is is

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Speaker 1: that if you invest more in it, then people will

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Speaker 1: what you know, I mean that it's just that's not

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Speaker 1: a good excuse. I just that doesn't that doesn't pan

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Speaker 1: out for me. No, I agree with you. It's it's

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Speaker 1: not a good look. And and you, like you said,

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Speaker 1: if you have any sports training company that wants to

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Speaker 1: be smart and get their name out there, go out

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Speaker 1: there and say, hey, all right, we're going to provide

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Speaker 1: these pelotons. We're gonna provide these We're gonna do what

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Speaker 1: we can to make sure that the women's facilities are

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Speaker 1: just as good as the men's facilities. So there's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity out there for smart business venture out there if

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Speaker 1: the companies want to stop up. And so Lynchy, one

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Speaker 1: thing I wanted to throw at you real quick before

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Speaker 1: we move on, which has nothing to do the n

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Speaker 1: C Double A. But uh, the owner of the Patriots,

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Speaker 1: Robert Kraft, Uh, he equated the spending spree that he

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Speaker 1: and his team were going on is like investing in

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Speaker 1: the stock market. This is the quote that he said

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Speaker 1: to Peter King. I don't know if you guys saw

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Speaker 1: this quote. This is Robert Kraft. You take advantage of

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Speaker 1: corrections and inefficiencies in the market when you can, and

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Speaker 1: that's what we did here. We'll see nothing is guaranteed. Now,

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Speaker 1: very cognizant of that. But we're not in the business

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Speaker 1: to be in business. We're in this business to win.

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Speaker 1: And if that isn't music to Bill Belichick's here is,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what is. And to everyone in New

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Speaker 1: England too. Was coming off the seven and nine season

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Speaker 1: and still wondering if Kim Newton is going to be

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Speaker 1: the quarterback come about the second weekend in September. I

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Speaker 1: want one quick question about the n C Double A.

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Speaker 1: Is this a legitimate tournament without the IVY League participating. Yes, okay,

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Speaker 1: I just want to know, no asterisk here. Nice try,

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Speaker 1: nice try, double varsity athlete. We catch you, We got you.

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Speaker 1: You were a hooper though, you know, as far as

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Speaker 1: we know, I don't. I don't know. Maybe you were

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Speaker 1: like secretly under a pseudonym playing on the Harbor basketball

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Speaker 1: team as well. No one was on the team j B.

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Speaker 1: James Brown was on the team when I was there. Interesting. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: I mean, look, I do think that there are I

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Speaker 1: sort of quickly dismissed your question, but it is it

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Speaker 1: is a good one in this sense of, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of this has been upside down. This whole football

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Speaker 1: season has been upside down. The basketball season, obviously, um

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Speaker 1: was upside down. You know, you have had one team,

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Speaker 1: as we talked about, already dismissed for violating COVID protocols,

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Speaker 1: which I still don't know exactly how that happened, because

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Speaker 1: presumably every team was in some form of quarantine back

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Speaker 1: on their own campus before they got there. But I

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Speaker 1: don't know if there has been or will be any

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Speaker 1: sort of investigation there. You know, here's hoping it doesn't

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Speaker 1: happen again, and Obviously, the bubble gets smaller and smaller

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Speaker 1: as the tournament goes on, and nobody who's there now

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Speaker 1: is leaving. Nobody knew was coming in from a player

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Speaker 1: and a and a team perspective, but there are a

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Speaker 1: limited number of fans in the stands. It was weird

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Speaker 1: to watch it, um, because you know, instead of doing

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Speaker 1: the wide shot where you would see, you know, the

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Speaker 1: masses of fans jumping up down, you would have this

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Speaker 1: sort of tight little shot on eighteen Oral Roberts. Fans

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Speaker 1: like jumping up and down in their masks. So but

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Speaker 1: this is, uh, this is the world we're living in.

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Speaker 1: There are limited fans watching some NBA games. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things that unfortunately people got to witness a

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Speaker 1: few in person and if many more online and on

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Speaker 1: TV was LaMelo ball Um tough, tough injury that may

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Speaker 1: take him out for the balance of the season. This

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Speaker 1: is a rising star, Lynchi in the league. You know,

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Speaker 1: one of the most watched teams. There was a great

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Speaker 1: moment in the last week or so with him and

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Speaker 1: Lebron facing off for the first time. A lot of

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Speaker 1: hope there for the Charlotte team with him. Um, you

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Speaker 1: hate to see it you hate to see it early

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Speaker 1: in her career too. You know, he was the third

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Speaker 1: overall picked. He's lived up to all his expectations. Probably

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Speaker 1: would have been Rookie of the year. Uh sixteen points,

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Speaker 1: six assists, six rebounds so far in forty one games.

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Speaker 1: His team right now is holding on to that eighth

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Speaker 1: and final playoff spot in the East. But there's a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of teams separated by about a game and

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Speaker 1: a half right there, so that could change. And and

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Speaker 1: then unfortunately you know from Michael Jordan's Charlotte Hornets that

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Speaker 1: when he's if LaMelo was out for the year, don't

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Speaker 1: be a tough run for them to make the playoffs?

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Speaker 1: Can I just point one thing out? Michael Barr moving

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Speaker 1: a little bit further south from Charlotte, You know he

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Speaker 1: was on a tear violent Hawks. Um ain't no uh.

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Speaker 1: Since Nate McMillan took over as the interim coach, Lloyd

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Speaker 1: Pierce was relieved with his duties, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen when you bring someone

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Speaker 1: new in. But uh, I don't know, maybe a lesson

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Speaker 1: in shaking it up there because the Hawks, after missing

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Speaker 1: the playoffs for three years in a row, are now

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Speaker 1: very much in the mix right there in the in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the hunt for a for a playoff spot.

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Speaker 1: So that's good. I'm gonna lettle secret. And when before,

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Speaker 1: back in the day and when I wanted to make

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Speaker 1: a lot of money betting, I bet against the Hawks,

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Speaker 1: just straight up and I made a nice chunk of

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Speaker 1: change that and you know, so and then in one

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Speaker 1: day and like you said, I'm looking at the record

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Speaker 1: and it's like, am I seeing that right? Eight's like wow. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, they were playing speaking of injuries, they

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Speaker 1: were playing the Lakers and last week and uh, Lebron

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Speaker 1: James went down with a high angle sprain. He's going

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Speaker 1: to be out for some uh indeterminate amount of time.

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Speaker 1: Presumably because it is a sprain, he will be back,

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Speaker 1: but it does it affects his chances at the m

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Speaker 1: v P. Uh. It also, you know, potentially affects what's

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Speaker 1: going on with the team, with the Lakers and their seating,

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Speaker 1: given that Anthony Davis has also been out for the

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Speaker 1: amount of time. So, uh, you know, we want these

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Speaker 1: players healthy. It's good for business, it's good for viewership,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's good for them as human beings

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Speaker 1: as well. Well, just rounding this out, I want to

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Speaker 1: note something that I think we all noted over the weekend,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, my mom uh emailed me about and

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Speaker 1: reminded me that when I was a kid, UH living

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Speaker 1: in Boston in the early eighties, UH, we went to

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Speaker 1: watch the Boston Marathon and we saw Dick Hoit now

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Speaker 1: the late Dick koit Um pushing his son as he

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Speaker 1: did many many times across many marathons, including the Boston Marathon. UH.

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Speaker 1: And my mom recounted to me, and I remember this clearly,

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Speaker 1: you know, her explaining to me what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: You know that he was pushing his son who couldn't walk,

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Speaker 1: you know, through this entire marathon. Lynchy having seen that

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Speaker 1: story up close and personal, remind us, remind us about

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Speaker 1: this story and the importance is especially in Boston into

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Speaker 1: the Boston Marathon, it being the pinnacle of the sport

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Speaker 1: of Dick Hoit. Well, Dick Hoit died last week at

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Speaker 1: the age of eighty, and he has a son, Rick

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Speaker 1: Hoyd was now fifty nine, who was born with cerebral

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Speaker 1: palsy and he wanted to participate in a race, so

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Speaker 1: he showed up at the first Boston Marathon. It was

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Speaker 1: not welcome. A lot of people, all the elite runners said,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get tangled up with a wheelchair

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Speaker 1: and somebody pushing. It's not right. Well, Dick Hoit wouldn't

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Speaker 1: take no for an answer, and he may befriended Joan Benoit,

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Speaker 1: Samuelson and Bill Rodgers who went right to the b

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Speaker 1: a A and they gave him a number to participate

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Speaker 1: and the rest basically his history. He ran thirty two

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Speaker 1: Boston marathons and Dick and Rick Hoit became the face

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Speaker 1: of the Boston Marathon. Matter of fact, a few yards

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Speaker 1: from the starting line in Hopkinson there's a statue of

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Speaker 1: Dick pushing Rick Hoyt. And you know, seventy marathons altogether,

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Speaker 1: two and fifty triathlons. He would swim in the ocean

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Speaker 1: and tie a rope round his neck and swim and

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Speaker 1: pull his son who was in the raft, and then

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Speaker 1: they get back on land and then they would hop

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Speaker 1: in there uh their wheelchair and push, and then they

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Speaker 1: would ride a bike and he would just put him

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Speaker 1: in a little carriage behind the bike. Just an amazing person.

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Speaker 1: A warrior is what I called him, and just uh,

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Speaker 1: just so inspirational. I mean he would get the loudest

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Speaker 1: ovation when he when when he passed wherever you were

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Speaker 1: watching the marathon in that twenty six mile route. And

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Speaker 1: uh and now there are Team Hoyts, uh, little road

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Speaker 1: races and towns, these little five k's Team Hoyt will

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Speaker 1: come up and they'll they'll send like fifteen runners or so.

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Speaker 1: You know, Dick and Rick you know, couldn't be every

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Speaker 1: place at one time, so they developed a foundation. And

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Speaker 1: what he has done for people that thought that they

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Speaker 1: were shut out and they couldn't participate, um has done

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Speaker 1: for their self worth and has done for people who

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Speaker 1: were disabled. Now that's it's become. It's a it's an

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Speaker 1: event in the Boston Marathon, as it is in marathons

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Speaker 1: around the world now wheelchair men, women. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: interesting to to to think about it and um and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking about it from the perspective of not

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Speaker 1: only the you know, the incredible human story, but also

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Speaker 1: the opportunity. I think you can point back to Dick

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Speaker 1: Hoit in many ways for ushering in the incredibly powerful

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Speaker 1: charitable element that is now tied to marathons. In many ways.

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Speaker 1: And and you know Lynch and you do as well,

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Speaker 1: Michael Barr, that especially for Boston, it is a massive

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars that are raised every year when the

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Speaker 1: marathon is run. And that has because it's Boston sort

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Speaker 1: of cascaded through the marathon industry, the racing industry. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have team and training, you have um Fred's team

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Speaker 1: here in New York City, UM where whereby people raise

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Speaker 1: money to run marathons, and you know, having run some

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Speaker 1: marath onns, it is not easy, um. But the meaning

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Speaker 1: underneath it, and I think the meaning that Dick Koit brought,

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Speaker 1: and I think and Michael Barr, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: you would agree with this. I feel like he is

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Speaker 1: among the people who sort of brought the marathon into

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Speaker 1: the mainstream because of this incredible accomplishment, and you know,

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Speaker 1: and so so the legacy is so far beyond even

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Speaker 1: um what he did for his son, which is in

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Speaker 1: and of itself immeasurable. Well, to give you an idea,

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Speaker 1: Dick Hoit, he wasn't just a local Boston figure. He

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Speaker 1: was a national figure because back in Detroit and I'm

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Speaker 1: watching the video of Dick Hoit and He's got his

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Speaker 1: son and they're running the marathon, and I'm thinking, man,

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Speaker 1: this guy is gold, just solid gold. And you couldn't

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Speaker 1: help but to have feelings about this. And and you

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Speaker 1: know everybody is is coming around watching this and on

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Speaker 1: the TV set back man and just admiring this guy

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Speaker 1: something else. This is the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast

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Speaker 1: on Michael Bar. You can follow me on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: Big Bar Sports. And I'm Mike Lynch. You can follow

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Speaker 1: me at Lynch e w CBB. And I'm Jason Kelly.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at Jason Kelly News. We're here

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Speaker 1: with you each and every Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday, exploring

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Speaker 1: the world of money and sports. Join us again as

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Speaker 1: the week goes on. On Wednesday, we're gonna catch up

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Speaker 1: with Devin Gordon. He's got a new book and it

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Speaker 1: is fantastic. It's about the New York Mets and it's

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Speaker 1: called appropriately so Many Ways to Lose. And then on Thursday,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna check in with the Lucas Oil Stadium director

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Speaker 1: Eric Newburger, of course, host of this very unusual March Madness,

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Speaker 1: including the Final four coming up in just a couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. You're listening Bloomberg Business of Sports, on Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio around the world and online wherever you get your

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Speaker 1: fe