1 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning. A few weeks ago, I 2 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: sat down with Anna Sinfield, host of The Girlfriend's Spotlight. 3 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:19,159 Speaker 1: It's the new weekly series from The Girlfriends. If you 4 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: haven't heard their show, I would recommend starting from the 5 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: beginning with season one. It follows the story of Carol 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Fisher as she uncovers her recent ex boyfriend sinister past. 7 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: Carol enlists his other ex girlfriends to help investigate the 8 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 1: mysterious death of his first wife, Gail Katz. Now, after 9 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 1: two seasons, they're producing weekly episodes all about women accomplishing 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: great things against the odds. Anna and I discuss what 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: this work means for us and what's coming up on. 12 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 2: Both of our shows. We hope you enjoy it. 13 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 3: Annah, Thank you so much for joining me today. Thank 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: you so much for having me. 15 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: I've been spending a lot of time listening to Spotlight 16 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: and it's a really exciting project. Give me a little 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: bit of an explanation on what Girlfriend's Spotlight is and 18 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: what was the inspiration behind going from the narrative to 19 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: the weekly. 20 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 4: The Girlfriend's Obviously, it was this story about a group 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 4: of women. They all dated the same guy, and they 22 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 4: started to suspect that he might have murdered his first wife, 23 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: and they all came together and they put him behind bars, 24 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 4: and so it's like this great story of women coming 25 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 4: together and ultimately triumphing. And then afterwards, you know, there 26 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:40,039 Speaker 4: was this leftover little investigation from it where this torso 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 4: washes ashore and it's misidentified as that first wife, Gail, 28 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 4: and I kind of hated that not ever being solved. 29 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 4: Nobody ever knew who that woman was in the end, 30 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 4: once she was kind of decided that she wasn't Gail 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 4: in the first place. Yeah, and so we then went 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 4: and investigated that, and so that was like a really lovely, 33 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 4: like first two narrative series, they like bled onto one another, 34 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 4: and then we're kind of left with this huge community 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 4: of listeners and a feeling that the show wasn't done. Yeah, 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:14,119 Speaker 4: and so Spotlight is a series of sort of eight 37 00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 4: episodes that we put out in between our narratives where 38 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 4: we get to do these one on one conversations with 39 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 4: women who also triumph together or triumph over adversity in 40 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 4: some way. But they're just kind of these one off stories, 41 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 4: very much like obviously Betrayal Weekly. 42 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: Can you kind of describe Anna for me, like the 43 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: framework of women winning and what does that mean to 44 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 1: your team? 45 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, so women winning. 46 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 4: It took us a while to land on that women 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 4: winning made it broad, but it also kept us always 48 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 4: staying true to this idea that we want to make 49 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 4: sure we don't just tell true crime stories where women 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 4: are victims and they suffer. Instead, at the end, you 51 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 4: need to feel like, actually, I can go through something 52 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 4: really shit and at the end of it, I could 53 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 4: still survive. I could still come out on top. And like, 54 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 4: those are the messages that I want people to get 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 4: when they're on the tube or the subway, or they're 56 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 4: on the bus or their bike and they're commuting to 57 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,359 Speaker 4: work and they feel like they've had a bad day 58 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 4: because that someone's just dumped them or they've had an 59 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: argument at work. But at the end, you're hopefully also 60 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 4: feeling like, oh, actually, maybe I can deal with this. 61 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 4: I think we're telling really important stories that don't get 62 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 4: heard enough. And you know, it sounds a bit trite 63 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 4: to say, because you know, so many people talk about 64 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 4: how women's stories aren't heard enough and all of that, 65 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 4: but it's actually true, and these particular stories where women 66 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 4: are from all over the world as well. I had 67 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 4: an interview with a woman in Sri Lanka today, And 68 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 4: I've interviewed people from kind of every continent for this show, 69 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,119 Speaker 4: and they are of every age, and some of them 70 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 4: are just to all intents and purposes. When you look 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 4: at them, they're just grandmothers, you know. And then you 72 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 4: talk to this grandmother that people probably would look at 73 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 4: on the street and underestimate, and you realize they've done 74 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 4: something absolutely crazy, like death defying, or they have changed 75 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 4: their government for good, They've like saved lives. And I 76 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 4: think I feel really proud of the way the feed 77 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 4: is kind of making people look at people who perhaps 78 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 4: could have been overlooked in a new light and like 79 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 4: celebrate people who aren't being celebrated enough. And so I'm 80 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 4: really proud of that, and I'm passionate about that and 81 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:42,280 Speaker 4: please that people are willing to talk to me about 82 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 4: those amazing moments. 83 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: Well, you know, I really loved your decision of like, 84 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: I love that I can hear you ask the questions. 85 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: You have this wonderful tone of voice which is really 86 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: disarming and soft and welcoming, and so it's a really 87 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 1: beautiful balance of living in someone's story as they're telling it, 88 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: and then if you have a question or if you 89 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: want to react, then you're reminded that it is a conversation. 90 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: It's a really beautiful balance, and I think you guys 91 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: did a great job and have really nailed that. 92 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:13,440 Speaker 3: Ah, thank you. 93 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 4: I love that we've managed to include that because it 94 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 4: feels like it's kind of integral, so that like we're 95 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 4: not alone, we're in it together. Philosophy of the girlfriends. 96 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 1: I absolutely found myself just devouring the Madison and Christine 97 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,360 Speaker 1: is it Madison and Christine story? The twin sisters? That 98 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: story was incredible. I mean, I think that was truly 99 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: a great example of women coming together and fighting the 100 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: good fight. 101 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 3: And not only that, but there. 102 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: Was a lot of similarities in that story that reminded 103 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 1: me of betrayal. 104 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: So where did you find that? 105 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: And tell me a little bit about making that. 106 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 4: It was one of the producers on our team who 107 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 4: found the story. You know, for context of what this 108 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 4: show is about. One of the twins was getting photos 109 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 4: of her from a boudoir shoot she did years ago 110 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 4: posted online and she didn't know where from. But once 111 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 4: we got talking to them, they were just so happy 112 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,360 Speaker 4: to talk about their story because they were really keen 113 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 4: to get the kind of messaging out there. So they 114 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 4: came together, you know, twins Injustice, and managed to kind 115 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 4: of not only take those photos down, but figure out 116 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 4: who it was and put them behind bars. 117 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 3: So it's yeah, you're right. 118 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a classic girlfriend's story, but it's also 119 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: a classic betrayal story. So maybe that should have been 120 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 4: our partner episode. But yeah, once we got talking to them, 121 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 4: they were just amazing. They're such wonderful characters, and they 122 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: really care about people understanding what non consensual pornography is 123 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 4: and how pervasive it is in our sort of modern 124 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 4: internet world. 125 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: That is something that we deal with a lot and 126 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: on our show. I mean when you're talking about especially 127 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: internet crimes, which I think is often overlooked because it's 128 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,040 Speaker 1: this like nebulous thing of who's really portraying in who's 129 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: really consuming it, and it feels intangible, right because it's 130 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: somewhere else. I mean, it was a big undertaking for 131 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: those women, but they were dogged and Tenasian like she 132 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: had to navigate the world and not know who was 133 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 1: doing it to her, but she was suffering because of 134 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: it and I remember that was such a powerful moment, 135 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 1: in such a vulnerable moment. 136 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 2: I thought was beautiful and really well done. 137 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much. 138 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 4: I wanted to ask you because I think one thing 139 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 4: that we've had to come to terms with and try 140 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 4: and figure out when we're telling so many different stories 141 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 4: like that one, and we've obviously gone for this tagline 142 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 4: of women winning, and I was interested in listening to 143 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 4: some of the betrayal weekly episodes. You guys have obviously 144 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 4: kind of solidified around the idea it's got to be 145 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 4: a betrayal, which should be. 146 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 3: Like relatively simple. 147 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 4: But I ever wonder if that becomes a sticking point 148 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 4: that you've liked made that decision that that's what the 149 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 4: show's about. In the same way that obviously now we 150 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 4: can't just tell the stories of women losing, which sadly 151 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 4: is most true crime stories. 152 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 1: I think our biggest struggle when we first started on 153 00:08:12,360 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: the weekly series was diversity of stories. Right, We couldn't 154 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: just tell week over week stories of different affairs, or 155 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: stories of c SAM or stories of sexual abuse. We 156 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: really wanted to showcase that there's different forms of betrayal 157 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: out there in different journeys. We have an incredible community 158 00:08:33,920 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: and a ton of people that write in But really 159 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: at the heart of these stories and what mo our 160 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: producer that works on this series we really have to 161 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: talk about is. 162 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: What is the love story here? 163 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: What is the point where there is true connection that 164 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 1: the audience can relate to in some way. But the foundation, 165 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: the core of these stories is the love story and 166 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: the aftermath because of the deception in betrayal, so it's 167 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,920 Speaker 1: just as important to have that love story in the 168 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: formula as it is in the deception. And so that 169 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: is really the secret sauce. I love that because if 170 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: the audience can't really relate or acknowledge what that is 171 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: for someone, then they don't necessarily care. 172 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 2: About the deception or the betrayal. 173 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 4: It's why in the first season of The Girlfriends I 174 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 4: spent so long. I mean, it's not the only reason, 175 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 4: but we invest so much in the friendships of the 176 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 4: women and how funny and quirky they are, and you know, 177 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 4: we really have a whole episode where you get to 178 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 4: know Gail, who's the victim of the story, and the 179 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 4: reason for that is because it's the right thing to do, 180 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 4: and she was an interesting person who deserved to be 181 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 4: at the center of her own story. But also because 182 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 4: in order to really understand what it is to lose 183 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 4: someone and for them to die in such a horrific way, 184 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 4: you need to understand how much of a whole human 185 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 4: being they are. And so it's like, in whatever like 186 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:01,839 Speaker 4: state you're setting up, it's like you give them something 187 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 4: to lose, and then the loss actually has impact. 188 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 3: I mean it's on a human level at all. 189 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: Really, that makes sense, as like two humans talking and 190 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: sharing stories one on one over coffee, that is the 191 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: most important. 192 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, I don't know about you, but I 193 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 4: struggle to listen to really horrible stuff all the time. 194 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: I mean, it's obviously part of our jobs, but when 195 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 4: I'm listening to things as a just a podcast listener, 196 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 4: if it's just kind of Gore after Gore after Gore, 197 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 4: I know that's like the popular stuff, and it's if 198 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 4: it's really sensational. But I don't know if it's as 199 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,599 Speaker 4: popular as people think it is. I think we like 200 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 4: the suspense and the drama of life, but do we 201 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 4: need to know the worst bits or are they just traumatic? 202 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: I really appreciate when producers really sit with what the 203 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: human inexperiences aside from the crime itself. 204 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 3: And I think you guys are doing. 205 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 2: That really really well. 206 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: And I love the element of women banding together, especially 207 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: in that case when I'm talking about, like with Madison 208 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:28,120 Speaker 1: and Christine, because it really did take an army to 209 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: track down the person that was putting these images online. 210 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: Law enforcement wasn't taking it seriously, and it was definitely 211 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: a pursuit of figuring out, like, I have to advocate 212 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: for myself and there's a ton of women here that 213 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 1: are going to advocate along with me, and that that. 214 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: Little nugget feels very betrayal too. 215 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, because that comes up a lot in Betrayal as well, 216 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 4: isn't it? You know, women coming together? 217 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really interesting. 218 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: Our first episode of the Weekly series from last season 219 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: is a story of this woman named Stephanie and her 220 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: husband was unfortunately drugging her and putting images of her online. 221 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:10,959 Speaker 3: Oh my god, and she wanted to. 222 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: Be anonymous, and she was really struggling when we first 223 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: met her. And since she told her story, since we've 224 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: put out the show, she's connected with other people that 225 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: have worked on either the Betrayal Weekly or upcoming limited 226 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: run and has just wanted to come out with her 227 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: story and own her voice in a way that is 228 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 1: so far removed from when we first met her a 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: year ago. And it's just this connection between her and 230 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: these other women who may not have been betrayed exactly, 231 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: but very similar to the way that she was betrayed 232 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: by her husband, and just the power of being able 233 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 1: to stand alongside somebody else and reclaim her voice is 234 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: unbelievable to watch and witness. 235 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 2: It's really beautiful. 236 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: So do you want to tell me a little bit 237 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: about the next season of The Girlfriends. 238 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 4: Yes, So on July fourteenth, we have got our new 239 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 4: show coming up. It's our brand new limited series called 240 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 4: The Girlfriend's Jailhouse Lawyer. I'm so excited about this. The 241 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 4: story we're telling is kind of a direct comment on 242 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 4: the first two seasons. So we're telling the story of 243 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 4: a woman called Kelly Harnett who went to prison for 244 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,959 Speaker 4: a murder that she says she didn't commit. Okay, Instead, 245 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 4: she says it was her very violent ex boyfriend, and 246 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,640 Speaker 4: when she was in prison, she was passionate she did 247 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 4: not commit this murder and she was going to get 248 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 4: herself out of prison, and so she started training herself 249 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 4: up to become a jailhouse lawyer, and in the process 250 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 4: of trying to fight to get herself out of prison, 251 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 4: she also got several other women out of prison. 252 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 3: But like the reason I say. 253 00:13:58,600 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 4: It's like a bit of a comment on what came 254 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 4: is because really it's an exploration on what it means 255 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 4: to be a victim or a villain in America today, 256 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: you know. And so the first two seasons it was 257 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 4: so simple. You know, we had a very clear cut 258 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 4: victim and someone who was very clear cut as the villain, 259 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 4: and we just like put them in those camps. It 260 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 4: worked really well for me narratively. It meant that I 261 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 4: could kind of right them as like a traditional story arc, 262 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 4: and we didn't explore the complexities of what it means 263 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 4: to be in either of those roles and the sort 264 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 4: of range that humans have. Whereas this series, obviously you've 265 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 4: got someone who the justice system believes committed a crime 266 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 4: and she is saying she didn't, And when you start 267 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 4: to explore her story, you can really understand why it's 268 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 4: a really complicated thing to label someone as a bad guy, 269 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 4: because it's not always that simple. There's lots of reasons 270 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 4: why people end up in difficult criminal situations. 271 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I do think that there is more space for understanding 272 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: the complexity of the human experience, especially in the audio format. 273 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 1: Life is not black and white, crimes aren't black and white. 274 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,160 Speaker 1: What happens in the aftermath is in black and white totally. 275 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean that's a huge part of the 276 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 4: series is that you hear me wrestling with that idea 277 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 4: of like, what kind of person do we accept as 278 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 4: just being a victim of something? Because actually there is 279 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 4: a playbook that we expect victims to play by and 280 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 4: if you don't play by that, and if something bad 281 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 4: happens in your life and you end up involved in 282 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 4: something criminal, you do end up being charged with a crime. 283 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 4: You know that happens time and time again that people 284 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 4: who just don't seem victimy enough they end up going 285 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 4: to prison because that looks like a villain, it doesn't 286 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 4: look like a victim. And that's yeah, screwed up but 287 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 4: interesting to explore. 288 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is, and it's delicate and it's really tough. 289 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: And we do have this saying on the Betrayal Limited 290 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: you know, there are no perfect victims and how relatable 291 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: is that? You know, that is what you say to 292 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: your girlfriend's over at coffee that I think we should 293 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: give more space to in you know, various formats, not 294 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: just audio but TV too, and those conversations. I think 295 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: people are having more open mindedness to different types of victims. 296 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: And I do think we're seeing a change, don't you. 297 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 3: I think so. 298 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 299 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 4: I think the tides are turning. 300 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 3: And what have you got coming up right now? 301 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: We are actively putting out episodes for season four of 302 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: Betrayal of the Limited Run, and this season tells the 303 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 1: story about a woman whose husband is a police officer 304 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: with the Colorado Springs Police Department, and he not only 305 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: betrays her but also his community and really unpacks a 306 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: lifetime of lies and what that does for your lived experience. 307 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 3: I mean, it's really wild to sit with people who. 308 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:13,920 Speaker 1: Have to go back twenty years and talk about, well, 309 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,800 Speaker 1: I thought the birth of my son was one way, 310 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,879 Speaker 1: and now I've learned new information twenty years later, and 311 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: that day was fundamentally changed for. 312 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: Me as well. 313 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: As we really go into policies and things that happen 314 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: internally at the Colorado Springs Police Department, and we got 315 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 1: access to this incredible tape his entire Ia files that 316 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: were all recorded, and so we have hours and hours 317 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: of footage and just hearing him basically just lie to 318 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: his colleagues and his bosses, and it really just shows, 319 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: you know, if he's doing this internally at his job, 320 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: what is he doing to his wife? And we kind 321 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: of just explore that. It's really fascinating. And then starting 322 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: in August, we are putting out season two of the 323 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: Always On for Betrayal so News story Weekly, which is exciting. 324 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 3: Busy, we're both busy. 325 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a pleasure speaking with you, and thank 326 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:08,720 Speaker 1: you so much for your time. 327 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 328 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 3: And I'm going to listen to that series. 329 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 4: I'm Benjinette. It sounds amazing. 330 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, thanks for listening. Check out The girlfriend Spotlight 331 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 1: and the next season of The Girlfriends coming July fourteenth. 332 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 5: If you would like to reach out to the Betrayal 333 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 5: team or want to tell us your betrayal story, email 334 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 5: us at Betrayalpod at gmail dot com. That's Betrayal Pod 335 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 5: at gmail dot com. 336 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: We're grateful for your support. 337 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 5: One way to show support is by subscribing to our 338 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 5: show on Apple Podcasts and don't forget to rate and 339 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 5: review Betrayal five star reviews, Go A long Way, A 340 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:03,880 Speaker 5: big thank you to all. 341 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 1: Of our listeners. 342 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 5: Betrayal is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of 343 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,479 Speaker 5: Glass Entertainment Group and partnership. 344 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 2: With iHeart Podcasts. 345 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,160 Speaker 3: The show is executive produced by. 346 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 5: Nancy Glass and Jennifer Fason, hosted and produced by me 347 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 5: Andrea Gunning, written and produced by Monique Leboard, also produced 348 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 5: by Ben Fetterman. Associate producers are Kristin Mercury and Caitlin Golden. 349 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:31,000 Speaker 5: Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Krinchech. Audio 350 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 5: editing and mixing by mattel Vecchio. 351 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: Additional editing support from Tanner Robbins. 352 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,480 Speaker 5: Betrayal's theme composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by 353 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 5: mob of Music and For more podcasts from iHeart, visit 354 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 5: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.