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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: What gets me up in the morning?

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Speaker 3: What do I love?

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Speaker 2: And I love playing shadow entrepreneur, and I like solving

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Speaker 2: problems with capital. And it just so happens, you know,

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Speaker 2: luck in people's career. I happen to hit an inflection

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Speaker 2: point with sports that I couldn't possibly have seen coming

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Speaker 2: back in two thousand, two thousand and one. Right, you

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Speaker 2: look back on the last twenty years and you're like,

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Speaker 2: you know, Luck's Greg. You really hit an air pocket

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Speaker 2: where you took off. Now the challenge is navigating that.

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Speaker 4: This week on the show, Alex Jerry Cardinal, this is

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Speaker 4: a guy who you and I both know. He's the

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Speaker 4: founder of Redbird Capital. He's a former partner at Goldman Sachs.

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Speaker 4: He's had a hand in some of the most important

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Speaker 4: moments in sports history over the last last thirty years,

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Speaker 4: including some teams you are quite.

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Speaker 3: Familiar with, very much so the New York Yankees.

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Speaker 5: And he was one of the founding partners for the

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Speaker 5: great George Steinbrenner, who when he was in his early thirties,

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Speaker 5: trusted him with this incredible project to leave MSG and

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Speaker 5: create his own network with the Goldman Sachs and the

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Speaker 5: New York Yankee brand that today exists as the most

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Speaker 5: successful regional sports network of all time.

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Speaker 4: This is one of those things that I think we

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Speaker 4: take for granted these days. It's like, yeah, you want

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Speaker 4: to watch the Yankees, you turn on the S Network.

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Speaker 4: This was a radical, controversial to say the least idea

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Speaker 4: back in the day. People were mad about this, and

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Speaker 4: yet George Steinbrenner, as was often the case, saw something

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Speaker 4: that other people didn't. I think what's so interesting about

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Speaker 4: Jerry Cardinel too, is you take the S Network, cool, amazing,

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Speaker 4: Then you start Redbird Capital. That's pretty great. But then

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Speaker 4: you start to list out the things that Redbird has

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Speaker 4: been involved in the creation of the next look and

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Speaker 4: maybe most successful version ever of the XFL with Dwayne

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Speaker 4: Johnson aka The Rock and Danny Garcia. That's a massive

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Speaker 4: bet and a really big investment. And then he goes

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Speaker 4: into the business you're in now, which is owning a

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Speaker 4: sports team. And he doesn't just own any sports team.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't go by just anything. He goes for ac

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Speaker 4: Milan arguably one of the top ten franchises on the planet,

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Speaker 4: and one of the things that totally caught me off

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Speaker 4: guard candidly going into the city. You had given me

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Speaker 4: just a little bit of a teaser about this. He

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Speaker 4: had a hand in a couple of the most important

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Speaker 4: moments in your life. One getting to the New York

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Speaker 4: Yankees and maybe even more importantly, winning a world series.

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Speaker 5: That's what makes Jerry so special. I mean to think

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Speaker 5: that he had a big hand in bringing me here

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Speaker 5: in zero four from the Rangers when George Steinbrenner came calling,

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Speaker 5: and then more importantly keeping me as a Yankee when

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Speaker 5: I opted out. And then it was a famous lunch

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Speaker 5: with Randy Levigne, myself and Jerry that led to the

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Speaker 5: two thousand and nine title on this episode of The Deal,

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Speaker 5: Jerry Cardinal.

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Speaker 4: Let's get started with this jam. So introduce yourself for us.

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Speaker 4: Tell us who you are, what you do.

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Speaker 2: Jerry Cardinal, Founder and managing partner of Redbird Capital.

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Speaker 3: And what does Redbird do look.

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Speaker 2: Redbird is an investment platform that enables me to invest

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Speaker 2: the way I invested most successfully at my twenty year

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Speaker 2: career at Goldman Sachs. So it's meant to be an

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Speaker 2: investment business that solves problems with capital. I'm really a

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Speaker 2: big believer in legitimacy, and I think you know, today

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Speaker 2: everybody's got capital, everybody's running around. There's just too few

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Speaker 2: deals for the amount of capital chasing it. And you know,

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Speaker 2: my style has always been to start not with the deal,

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Speaker 2: but start with the problem, and if you can solve

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Speaker 2: the problem inevitably. Capital is a great way to solve

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Speaker 2: a lot of problems, not all of them, but if

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Speaker 2: you can start with that, you have a great foundation

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Speaker 2: for legitimacy for what you're doing. And that's what Redbird's

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Speaker 2: meant to be.

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Speaker 4: All right, So we are going to start with the deal,

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Speaker 4: because it's a show called the Deal.

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Speaker 3: I think we should start with Yes, you weren't there.

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Speaker 3: That's a big one, all right.

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Speaker 4: It's revolutionary. Take us back to the creation of the

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Speaker 4: Yes Network. How did it get started?

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Speaker 2: Look, it was a hugely radical concept and we didn't

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Speaker 2: even know it was radical at the time. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this was truly monetizing intellectual property at a time in

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Speaker 2: the late nineties early two thousands when mostly investing in

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Speaker 2: media and entertainment was around distribution. It was cable systems,

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Speaker 2: it was outdoor billboards, radio stations, TV stations. No one

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Speaker 2: really had ever invested in intellectual property, and today that

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Speaker 2: would be just a no brainer and everyone.

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Speaker 3: Would get it.

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Speaker 2: George Steinbrenner came calling, and he had just broken away

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Speaker 2: from Cablevision and MSG, and the story he told was fascinating,

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Speaker 2: And what he basically said was, I don't understand how

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Speaker 2: I can be putting all the risk capital in to

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Speaker 2: put these players on the field year in and year

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Speaker 2: out to win a championship, and I just get paid

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Speaker 2: a fee for the monetization of those games, and my

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Speaker 2: counterparty gets the appreciation in a stock price. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: seem fair to me. When he put it that way,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, George was such a visionary. The

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Speaker 2: light bulbs went off in our head and we were like, wow,

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Speaker 2: I never really thought about it that way. I think

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Speaker 2: this was like February of two thousand and one, and

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Speaker 2: we started sort of looking at, well, could we create

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Speaker 2: our own network? And so, make a long story short,

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Speaker 2: I was a thirty three year old vice president at

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Speaker 2: the time, and I started building the model. I knew

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Speaker 2: nothing about sports. I was from Philadelphia, so I only

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Speaker 2: kN about the Phillies. I don't think i'd ever seen

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Speaker 2: a Yankee game, And you know, by September, coming out

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Speaker 2: of Labor Day, we basically had the outlines of what

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Speaker 2: would become the S Network, and we signed that deal

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Speaker 2: and handshook on that September tenth, two thousand and one.

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Speaker 5: Wow.

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Speaker 2: And then I'll never forget. You know. The next day

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Speaker 2: I was driving down the FDR to come into the

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Speaker 2: office to you know, start the next phases of this,

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Speaker 2: and you know, saw that the plane hit the tower.

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Speaker 2: And by the end of the week, you know, Goldman

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Speaker 2: Sachs did what you would expect Goldman Sachs to do.

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Speaker 2: At the end of the week of nine to eleven,

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Speaker 2: Goldman Sachs came in and backstopped what then was the

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Speaker 2: largest private equity check ever written, three hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: five million dollars. And all we had was a piece

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Speaker 2: of paper that said, you now own forty percent of

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Speaker 2: the electual property of the New York Yankees and the

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Speaker 2: New Jersey Nets, and you need to be on the

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Speaker 2: are April first, when you talk about, you know, a

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Speaker 2: crucible of having to really forge your way, and I say, George,

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Speaker 2: you know, George is the kind of person if you're

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Speaker 2: there for him in a moment like that, he will

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Speaker 2: he will reciprocate and be loyal to you forever. And

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Speaker 2: that really was sort of the career moment for me.

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Speaker 2: And I haven't looked back, and you've really had that

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Speaker 2: partnership with the Yankee organization, the Steinbergner family has been

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Speaker 2: instrumental and everything I do.

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Speaker 5: If you take a step back, going back to MSG,

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Speaker 5: how far away was MSG from the Yankees and finally said,

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Speaker 5: George said enough, Jerry, let's go do this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good question. You know, it wasn't so much a

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Speaker 2: bid ask. The bid ask was not numeric. The bid

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Speaker 2: ask was philosophical. George, he didn't articulate it in terms

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Speaker 2: of equity. George wanted equity. George was a principal. You know,

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Speaker 2: he's a maverick, he's an entrepreneur, and so that was

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Speaker 2: the fundamental difference. Now, the world's changed dramatically, but you know,

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Speaker 2: that model of being a rights holder yourself and monetizing

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Speaker 2: those rights and creating these terminal value businesses. Literally, I

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Speaker 2: say to everybody that you know, everything I've done, you know,

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Speaker 2: over the last thirty years, is really based on that moment.

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Speaker 2: That model hasn't changed. That model where we partner with

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Speaker 2: the rights holder in this case the Yankees, they put

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Speaker 2: in their intellectual property and we come in with scalable

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Speaker 2: capital and a company building mentality, which is important, integrating

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Speaker 2: a lot of operating skills in addition to your typical

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Speaker 2: private equity skills. You know, that sort of ven diagramming

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Speaker 2: has never let me down. And it's sports, sports, media

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Speaker 2: and media and entertainment. Fans are evolving in the way

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Speaker 2: they want to consume this content. And you know, my

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Speaker 2: view in investing is no one has a crystal ball,

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Speaker 2: but if you start with great intellectual property, you will

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Speaker 2: be able to navigate the cyclicality and the volatility in

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Speaker 2: the way technology is disintermediating the way these things are monetized.

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Speaker 4: So, speaking of Goldman, like if we could do a

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Speaker 4: beat on Goldman, because it is the Yankees of investment, banking,

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Speaker 4: Wall Street, it's all of those things. I mean, if

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Speaker 4: George Steinbrenner is not for the faint of heart, nor

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Speaker 4: is Goldman Sachs at that point which you alluded to,

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Speaker 4: this idea of like you're struggling for a seat at

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Speaker 4: the table, take us back to Goldman in the nineties.

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Speaker 4: What was it like back then trying to sort of

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Speaker 4: find your way it's private. It's still private at that point,

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Speaker 4: right in the nineties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I went public in ninety nine. It was interesting,

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Speaker 2: you know, I joined Goldman Sachs out of Oxford and

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Speaker 2: then I did a stint for a year at a

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Speaker 2: think tank in Tokyo. So when I joined, you know,

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Speaker 2: I wasn't one of these Wharton kids, you know, who

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Speaker 2: knew that I wanted to go to Wall Street from

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Speaker 2: day one, you know, And I joined, and I did

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Speaker 2: a year in New York and then shipped out to Asia.

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Speaker 2: And that's probably the best thing that happened to me,

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Speaker 2: because I was able to find my setting working with

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Speaker 2: these you know, just iconic families and entrepreneurs in Asia

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Speaker 2: that were building their countries, and that you know, as

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Speaker 2: a twenty six, twenty seven year old kid, you know,

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Speaker 2: you're not going to get away from the analytics. You're

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Speaker 2: not going to get away from actually doing the work,

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Speaker 2: which was very important. But to also add that exposure

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Speaker 2: was huge and it really opened my eyes to Goldman

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Speaker 2: Sachs there. It really was a privilege to work there.

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Speaker 2: And as I said, you know, we went from when

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Speaker 2: I joined, a very client relationship based culture to a

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Speaker 2: counterparty culture and you know, the firm always has to

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Speaker 2: reinvent itself every year in multi years. In the terms

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Speaker 2: of the way Wall Street's evolving, I was watching an

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Speaker 2: interview with Tom Brady and Belichick, and you know these

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Speaker 2: guys that mentality is Brady never looked at having won

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Speaker 2: six Super Bowls when he went for the seventh, right,

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Speaker 2: he was like, well, that's in the past. I'm only

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Speaker 2: focused on And that's the way Gold was. It's that

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Speaker 2: same mentality. I mean today, you know, the virtue is scale.

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Speaker 2: You know, back then the virtue wasn't scale. If anything,

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Speaker 2: the virtue was a little bit less is more, And

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Speaker 2: that's you know, the world's changed and so that and

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Speaker 2: and you can't just not evolve, but that makes it

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Speaker 2: more challenging.

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Speaker 5: I love that philosophy, not wide and shallow, but narrow

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Speaker 5: and deep. And sometimes you mentioned ninety nine. You go public,

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Speaker 5: all of a sudden, the scoreboard changes and you got

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Speaker 5: to just throw more shots. Not quality shots, but is

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Speaker 5: more shots. And obviously that's what I love what you

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Speaker 5: do in Redbird. You know, when I think about Redbird Capital,

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Speaker 5: and you've been so far ahead of the curve, you

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Speaker 5: might be maybe you and Michael Rubin, maybe the only

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Speaker 5: two people on Earth right that can do a partnership

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Speaker 5: with the Yankees and the Red Sox. And then you

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Speaker 5: corral one of the greatest two owners of all time

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Speaker 5: in Jerry Jones with Legends and George Steinberner. How and why.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate what you said. You know, Jerry is iconic

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Speaker 2: as they get. And I was lucky. I didn't know

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Speaker 2: it at the time, but I was lucky to spend

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Speaker 2: five days on a boat with him. This was two

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Speaker 2: thousand and seven. I use as an opportunity to tell him,

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Speaker 2: you know what one of my you know, stretch for

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Speaker 2: the stars moment would be. And I said to him,

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Speaker 2: you know, if I could do it, I said, I

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Speaker 2: would love to merge the Yankees, the Cowboys and the Lakers.

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Speaker 2: And I said, you know, if you did that, I said,

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Speaker 2: I think you'll have Disney Wow. And I said, I

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Speaker 2: would leave Goldman to go run that. And you know,

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Speaker 2: if you know Jerry, which you do, I mean, he

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Speaker 2: just loved that. I mean, Jerry's just one of those

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Speaker 2: guys that wants to you know, Jerry looks at things

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Speaker 2: with three D glasses.

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Speaker 5: Right at that time, how old are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm thirty thirty four, thirty five, thirty five, thirty six.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: So basically we started going at it, you know, for

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Speaker 2: lunch and breakfast and cocktails, and you know, with this

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Speaker 2: five day boat trip, and we came up for all

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Speaker 2: the reasons why it couldn't be done, you know, with

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Speaker 2: all the different league rules and everything else. But at

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Speaker 2: the end of it, I said to him, look, Jerry,

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Speaker 2: this has been unbelievable, incredibly inspirational. I said, I can't

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Speaker 2: leave this boat unless you and I have an agreement

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Speaker 2: that we've got something to do together. And one of

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Speaker 2: the things we had come up with was that both

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Speaker 2: the Yankees and the Cowboys were building these state of

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Speaker 2: the arts stadiums that had never been built before at

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Speaker 2: the same time, right, and this was going in This

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Speaker 2: was two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine. Economy apart,

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Speaker 2: economy is falling apart. And I said, well, if we

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Speaker 2: can't merge the Yankees and the Cowboys, why don't we

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Speaker 2: merge some of the economic streams between the Yankees and

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Speaker 2: the Cowboys. And what I said to him was that, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, he was fascinated by the Yes model, because

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Speaker 2: I think he was asked by the NFL to look

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Speaker 2: at what became the NFL Network and he was one

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Speaker 2: of the guys taking the lead on that, and so

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Speaker 2: he was asking me like, how did you do yes,

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Speaker 2: And he was trying to learn from that. I said, well,

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Speaker 2: let's just keep it simple. I said, if Yes was

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Speaker 2: about capturing the intellectual property of the Yankees and finding

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Speaker 2: a way to put a multiple on that. And the

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Speaker 2: Yankees and the Cowboys are both building these iconic stadiums

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Speaker 2: at the same time, why don't we find a way

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Speaker 2: to capture the intellectual property quote unquote of the two

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Speaker 2: stadiums and find a pathway to put a multiple on that.

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Speaker 2: And that became Legends Hospitality. So we basically created the

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Speaker 2: economic engine of those two stadiums. And you know, at

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Speaker 2: the time, you know, you a big piece of building

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Speaker 2: stadiums was selling forward these seat licenses basically for premium

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Speaker 2: seats and suites.

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Speaker 3: Today, it's a.

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Speaker 2: Little more challenging to do that because of technology, you know,

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Speaker 2: as StubHub and other ticketing platforms you know, have enabled

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Speaker 2: a la carte just like in streaming and cable, same

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Speaker 2: thing in the stadium. But back then that was an

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Speaker 2: incredibly important economic you know touch point for building these stadiums,

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Speaker 2: and then of course you could wrap around at merchandising

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Speaker 2: and hospitality and everything else that we do.

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Speaker 5: Sarry How much capital do you need and what's Legends

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Speaker 5: approximately worth today?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, great question on a lot of the

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Speaker 2: companies that we create. That sounds just that statement right there,

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Speaker 2: that sounds like venture capital. But what's so interesting is

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Speaker 2: that because I'm rooting it in intellectual property and we're

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Speaker 2: solving a need for something. In the case of the Yankees,

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Speaker 2: brought casting where they can own equity in the broadcast.

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Speaker 2: In the case of Legends, the same thing. For the stadiums.

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Speaker 2: We're cash flow positive day one. Yes, was different because

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Speaker 2: we bought forty percent of the electual property. Right, Legends

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Speaker 2: was different. Legends, you didn't really need a ton of

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Speaker 2: capital because day one we were cash flow positive because

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Speaker 2: you were Now there's a bit of a J curve

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Speaker 2: to get to those stadiums coming online. While you may

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Speaker 2: have a bit of a J curve, it's very manageable risk,

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Speaker 2: it's really not venture because you're rooted intellectual property, so

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Speaker 2: you have a pathway to non binary risk terminal value.

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Speaker 2: And then I looked to use these as platforms and

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Speaker 2: then put more money behind it and build it out

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Speaker 2: from there. So today Legends is a two to three

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Speaker 2: billion dollar company. Wow, you know. Yes, we started in

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Speaker 2: oh one. By two thousand and eight we had taken

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Speaker 2: three and a half times our money out just by

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Speaker 2: leveraging the cash flow. And then we sold it to

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Speaker 2: Murdoch in thirteen for roughly four billion dollars.

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Speaker 5: And then you bought it back, and then I bought

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Speaker 5: it back.

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Speaker 2: As Redbird in twenty nineteen with the Yankees Amazon, with

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Speaker 2: a view that when we started, Yes, it was a

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Speaker 2: growth equity, very play, and when we bought it back,

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Speaker 2: it was in transition, and we knew that we were

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Speaker 2: going to have to transition it from linear cable to

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Speaker 2: direct a consumer. But we knew going into what everyone's

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Speaker 2: dealing with today, and with the RSN model being challenged,

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Speaker 2: we knew what we had in that intellectual property. It's

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Speaker 2: the same story.

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Speaker 4: Let me ask you a very specific question about Yes,

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Speaker 4: which is this is literally born on September tenth, going

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Speaker 4: into September eleventh. So yes, there's all of those assumptions

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Speaker 4: are absolutely correct, except for a massive black swan event

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Speaker 4: that at the moment. I think we can all agree

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Speaker 4: we didn't know what was going to happen in the world.

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Speaker 4: How worried were you in that moment of especially having

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Speaker 4: convinced your partners at Goldman Sachs to backstop this thing.

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Speaker 4: Was there a moment where you thought, well, this has

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Speaker 4: been fun, but this isn't going to work now.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you about that's interesting. You know, Dick Parsons

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Speaker 2: was the first to sign up with us. He was

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Speaker 2: the CEO of Time Warner at the time, and he said, look,

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Speaker 2: you know, I hate the concept of Yes, he said,

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Speaker 2: but it's the right thing to do for New York City.

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Speaker 2: Wow and so, and that's the reason he jumped in.

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Speaker 2: And it was hugely important that he did that. I've

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Speaker 2: got to give credit to Leo Hendriy to Leo, you know.

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Speaker 2: Leo uh was our CEO and had a great relationship

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Speaker 2: with all the cable guys in Dick and then I

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Speaker 2: didn't have that oops moment that you talk about, because

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Speaker 2: once Dick came in, then we everyone.

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Speaker 3: Started to follow. How soon did that happen?

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Speaker 2: That was pretty quick by Thanksgiving. But then we had

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Speaker 2: a problem with cablevision. We couldn't get to an agreement

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Speaker 2: with Cable Vision in our first year, and when you know,

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Speaker 2: Giuliani stepped in to try to help his mayor. Then

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Speaker 2: he handed the reins to Bloomberg, and Mike stepped in

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Speaker 2: to try to help us. Spitzer was Attorney general time.

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Speaker 2: He jumped in to try to help us, really just

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Speaker 2: try to bridge the gap. Could not get it bridged.

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Speaker 2: And you know, Cablevision represented three eighths of our subscriber base. Wow,

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Speaker 2: even with them not coming on board the first year,

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Speaker 2: going back to my earlier point, we were still cash flow,

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Speaker 2: meaningfully cash flow positive, but it wasn't anywhere that close

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Speaker 2: to what I had underwritten in my model. And we

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Speaker 2: won a very important case after a year. And that's

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Speaker 2: when I you know, when when you came on board

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Speaker 2: and you were on the cover of the New York Post,

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Speaker 2: and I put it on every I put on all

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Speaker 2: the judges and everybody on all the lawyers chairs to

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Speaker 2: make the point about how important this intellectual property was.

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Speaker 2: And the important case was that we got yes to

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Speaker 2: stay on basic, the basic tier in cable and one

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Speaker 2: of our one of our non legalistic arguments was that

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Speaker 2: a low income subscriber in the Bronx living next to

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Speaker 2: Yankee Stadium should be able to see all their Yankee

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Speaker 2: games without having to necessarily buy a ticket. That may

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Speaker 2: be too much for them, but they should be able

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Speaker 2: to get it from There is a there is a

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Speaker 2: public private partnership between the cable industry and the community,

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Speaker 2: and Yankee games in New York City deserve the people

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Speaker 2: deserve that. And we won, and we won the right

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Speaker 2: to stay on Basic or expanded Basic. This was a

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Speaker 2: national thing because you know, McCain and other in Congress

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Speaker 2: were starting to push back on ESPN, and even back then,

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Speaker 2: this is twenty something years ago, people were talking about

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Speaker 2: tiering sports all the cart and I also, I'll never forget.

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Speaker 2: You know, my model that I built had this at

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Speaker 2: a buck seventy five per subscriber per month, and ultimately

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Speaker 2: through arbitration, we had a buck sixty seven. Wow. So

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Speaker 2: we were pretty much right there on terms. And then

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Speaker 2: you know, a moment that kicked in the next year.

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Speaker 2: You know, this thing was off to the races.

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Speaker 5: And Jason full disclosure. I've never told this to anyone,

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Speaker 5: but back then, Jerry had to talk about full alignment.

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Speaker 5: He has the Yankees, he has Goldman Sachs. He brings

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Speaker 5: in the best people to run it. But he allowed

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Speaker 5: me to invest a few bucks in the yesdal So

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Speaker 5: I put a few million dollars. I did extraordinary well,

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Speaker 5: and to this day I'm grateful. But he's one of

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Speaker 5: the principles that passes the hat around and it's always

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Speaker 5: about we, not I.

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Speaker 4: So clearly, you guys start a business relationship at some point,

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Speaker 4: and a friendship and a friend chip. And I mean

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Speaker 4: my sense from talking to you, Alex and preparing for

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Speaker 4: this is that going to him, you, Alex, start going

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Speaker 4: to Jerry for all sorts of advice.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, well, I'll give you one of the stories.

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Speaker 5: And I'll never forget this because in eight we did

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Speaker 5: not make the postseason, and that was incredibly embarrassed. Jeter

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Speaker 5: was embarrassed, Mariana, we were all very upset. And at

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Speaker 5: that point I started talking to Jerry. I said, Jerry,

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Speaker 5: we got to do something. This is not the way

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Speaker 5: we closed down the greatest stadium of all time to

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Speaker 5: open a new one. And again, this is eighth nine.

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Speaker 5: So the economy is not doing well. There's tremendous amount

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Speaker 5: of internal pressure on how Steinbrenner or General partner. He says, okay,

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Speaker 5: so how do we fix it? And I start going

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Speaker 5: back and forth. He says, I'm going to set up

408
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Speaker 5: a lunch with Randy Levine, the Yankee President and really

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Speaker 5: one of the unsung heroes in the Yankee universe. Doesn't

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Speaker 5: like the spotlight. But Randy is a great leader of

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Speaker 5: people and knows how to run a great business. So

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Speaker 5: we set up this lunch at the Core Club in Midtown,

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Speaker 5: and I remember it was about a ninety min at lunch.

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Speaker 5: I remember, I think Jerry came from his office in

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Speaker 5: Goldman Sachs. Randy comes from the Bronx and come from

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Speaker 5: my apartment and we meet there and I order a

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Speaker 5: chicken Caesar Shalad shrimp cocktail on a die Coke. And

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Speaker 5: the reason I remember that is because it went untouched

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Speaker 5: for And Randy is a very intimidating person and a

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Speaker 5: great guy. And I remember I'm sitting here across from

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Speaker 5: Randy and Jerry's to my left. I don't know how

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Speaker 5: honest I can be. I don't know if I can

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Speaker 5: be as honest with Randy as I am with Jerry.

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Speaker 5: And I'm kind of he's your boss, yeah, and you

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Speaker 5: know he's a lot like George Steinbroner, right. And I

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Speaker 5: start kind of mumbling and fumbling my words, and Jerry's like,

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Speaker 5: come on, come on, you can be honest, you can

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Speaker 5: take it. We created an architect in a napkin, Cesar Sabathia,

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Speaker 5: Martik Schera, and the one that I really pushed for

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Speaker 5: was aj Burnett and Randy to his credits, literally taking

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Speaker 5: notes notes, Long story short, Randy goes to work how Steinberner,

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Speaker 5: to his credit, spends almost of a billion dollars in acquisitions.

433
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 5: So now we cut to uh spring training. I have

434
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 5: to go get hip surgery. We're not drawing one in April.

435
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 5: We're off to a poor start. I'm in Vail, Colorado

436
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,399
Speaker 5: getting rehabbed. Mark tic Share is getting booed. Sabbathi is

437
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 5: not off to a great start. I'm coming back and

438
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 5: I called Jerry. I said, Jerry, I feel bad. Is

439
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,399
Speaker 5: there any anything I can do for the organization? Should

440
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,600
Speaker 5: I give money back? Should I defer money? Jerry says, stop,

441
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 5: we don't need your money back. We need you to

442
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 5: lead us to a world championship. We need you to

443
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 5: be a clean up hitter and be the best baseball

444
00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 5: player you can. I don't know if you remember that

445
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,120
Speaker 5: with that, And sure enough about six months later, we're

446
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 5: all on the field celebrating a world championship.

447
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,320
Speaker 4: All right, hold on, I remember we've got to unpack this.

448
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,560
Speaker 4: We got to unpack this big times for true. So

449
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 4: how are you at that table, like, like, what's your

450
00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 4: role at that point that you can be this connective

451
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:56,879
Speaker 4: tissue between this guy and the Steinberg like and Randy Levy?

452
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 2: Like?

453
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,040
Speaker 3: How does that happen? Look if you remember that story.

454
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 2: Like my verbatim and it's one hundred percent accurate, you know,

455
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 2: it's just one of those things I think when you

456
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 2: came out of nine to eleven. Our relationship with Steinbrenners

457
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 2: and Randy and the anchorganization was formed out of nine

458
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,520
Speaker 2: to eleven. And so what happened is, you know, I

459
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 2: was always and I was always a quirky guy at Goldman,

460
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: and so I didn't really fit into these roles that

461
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 2: they want you to fit in. And so I didn't

462
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,159
Speaker 2: look at it as you know, my banker in this

463
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 2: case and I an investor in this case. I just

464
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 2: I just was their guy, and I knew one thing

465
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:29,440
Speaker 2: in the same way. It was a privilege to work

466
00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: at Goldman Sachs. I didn't know I was going to

467
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: have this career in sports the way it's become, but

468
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: I certainly knew what a privilege it was to be

469
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: apprenticing at that table, because you know what's happened over

470
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 2: the last you know, twenty five years is you know,

471
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 2: I've seen everything you know sports as very much as

472
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: you know. It's a closed ecosystem. And really I owe

473
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 2: so much of my career to the Steinbrenners into Randy,

474
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 2: because they are incredibly loyal and they and they see

475
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,119
Speaker 2: everything they think like mavericks, and they demand loyalty and

476
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,879
Speaker 2: they demand world class and I love those ingredients. I

477
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 2: can live with that. And the one thing I know

478
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,200
Speaker 2: is and never let them down. So when they ask

479
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: for something, I don't even think about, you know, am

480
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: I gonna make money on this? Everything else? I just

481
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:11,280
Speaker 2: do it because it's a privilege to be asked and

482
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,879
Speaker 2: then inevitably, guess what happens because we're all like minded

483
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: the same way, it leads to something and it's gone

484
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,400
Speaker 2: on to this day. And the Yankees came in with

485
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 2: me when we bought a CI Milan. I'm all about

486
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 2: arbitraging you know things, and so all arbitrage at dislocation

487
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 2: in an ecosystem, all arbitrage in competence and inefficiency. You know,

488
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 2: sports is interesting because you've had this massive escalation in

489
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,160
Speaker 2: these valuations and frankly, none of the people and none

490
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 2: of the infrastructures kept pace. And so what I do

491
00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 2: at Redbirds, I go in, I close that gap, and

492
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 2: in the process of closing that gap, I create these

493
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 2: terminal value businesses. That's a win for the rights holder,

494
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,240
Speaker 2: and it's a win for us as the capital. Only recently,

495
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,159
Speaker 2: you know, I decided to vertically integrate and become the

496
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 2: rights holder ourself, right, right, And so that's an evolution.

497
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: All right. We got to talk about Steinbrenner.

498
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, so you said your thirty three

499
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: year old guy come from the philm but you know

500
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,520
Speaker 4: who George Steinbrenner is. I mean, do you know enough

501
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 4: that when that call comes in, you're like, holy cow,

502
00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 4: it's George Stein, Like what's your mindset when he comes

503
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: to you?

504
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 3: The first time, it.

505
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 2: Was the first time I had ever interacted with a

506
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 2: celebrity or someone of that stature. And the good thing

507
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: is I was a kid, So I didn't know better, right,

508
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 2: And so I'll never forget walking into his boardroom at

509
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 2: the Regency Hotel in New York and there he was

510
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 2: at the end of the table with the white turtleneck

511
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 2: and the rings, and that was. That was a moment

512
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 2: where I took a deep breath and I say, oh wow.

513
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: I said, Okay, George is very sort of disarming. And

514
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 2: he said to me, your cardinal. I said, you're a

515
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 2: lot younger than I thought you'd and so, you know,

516
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 2: it's a little bit of oh geez, you know, I'm

517
00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: under the gun here. And the great thing, George and

518
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 2: I had a wonderful relationship. I think it is because

519
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: I grew up with a very tough, old school Italian father,

520
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,119
Speaker 2: and you know, my dad basically put me on the

521
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 2: witness stand every night at dinner, just grilled.

522
00:24:58,720 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 5: Grilled me.

523
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,719
Speaker 2: And so I was used to a George personality. I

524
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: was used to someone really giving me a run for

525
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: my money, being in my face, and I didn't back down.

526
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: I knew that you had to be intelligent in the

527
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: way you responded. You couldn't shoot from the hip, and

528
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 2: it wasn't always easy. But you know, he was very tough,

529
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 2: but you know you'd stand your ground, and he respected

530
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: you if you stood your ground.

531
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 5: Jerry, I have my own experiences with George and I

532
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 5: love the man. He was unbelievable. You mentioned a visionary,

533
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 5: a numbers guy, courageous. How would you describe him?

534
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 2: You know he has old school values and I can

535
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: say that today twenty years later, when you know a

536
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 2: lot of those old school values, you know you can't

537
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 2: find him anymore. Right, George wanted to make money, George

538
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 2: wanted to win. George was all about the bottom line.

539
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 2: But also it was great about George. It was how

540
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 2: he did it that was important to him. And George,

541
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 2: you know, was as hard driving as anybody, but he

542
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: also had integrity in a way that I miss.

543
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 5: Here's my George story.

544
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I died to hear this, Okay, go.

545
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 5: So brought me in two thousand and four and it

546
00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 5: was a thrill of my life to put on pinstripes.

547
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 5: And Brian Cashman asked me when I received my MVP award,

548
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 5: as I almost got a deal done with the Red

549
00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 5: Sox that fell apart. I was upset because I thought

550
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 5: the deal would be a perfect deal for me for

551
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 5: baseball Jeter against a eight Rod Yankees Red Sox. Long

552
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 5: story short. I sit next to Brian Cashman. He says, well,

553
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 5: if you're willing to move to third base, maybe there's

554
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 5: a move for us. Well, I'm not a drinker. I

555
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 5: had a couple of cocktails and by the third cocktail,

556
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 5: I go, are you serious about that? So that's circulated

557
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 5: with Raindey Levine and the Boss. A couple of weeks later,

558
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 5: I become a Yankee. I get off to a little

559
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 5: bit of a slow start. Like most Yankees, is a

560
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 5: lot going in. You have to adjust fan base, media,

561
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 5: all of that, and I get off to a struggling start,

562
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 5: and I'll never forget. Is around May fifth and I

563
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 5: have a letter and it says Alex from GMS. GMS

564
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 5: is George Steinberner. Literally my heart stopped. I started sweating.

565
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 5: I go, oh man, this is not going to be good.

566
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 5: I'm off to a bad start. And he writes me

567
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 5: the nicest letter. He goes, hey, I brought you here

568
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 5: just like I brought Redggie Jackson. Trust your talent. I

569
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 5: believe in you. I'm counting on you. Was how he

570
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 5: would it was. End every letter, I am counting on you.

571
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 5: All the best GMS. I sat down on my chair

572
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 5: and I said, I went out that night, two home

573
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 5: runs the next night, four RBIs the next night, and

574
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 5: the rest is history, and I'm off to the races.

575
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 5: And to Jerry's point, he's a handshake guy, he's a

576
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 5: code guy. And him believing in you, believing in Jerry's

577
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 5: a thirty three year old believing in Alex Me as

578
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,199
Speaker 5: a twenty eight year old, just meant the world to me.

579
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 5: And the rest is history.

580
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 2: You know, that's such a great story. And that day

581
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: I walked into that boardroom and saw him for the

582
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: first time. After he he you know, he digged me

583
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: a little bit about my age. He said to me,

584
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 2: do you know why I called you in Goldman Sechs.

585
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 2: I said no, And he said, you know, when I

586
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,879
Speaker 2: was a kid and I came to New York for

587
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 2: the first time, there were very few people who would

588
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: give me the time of day. And he said, Gus Levy,

589
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 2: who was this iconic CEO of Goldman Sacks. He said,

590
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: he was one of the few people who gave me

591
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 2: the time of day. And he brought me in and

592
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 2: he introduced me to people, and he really helped me

593
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: you know, get my feet under me in New York

594
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: City and he said, I've always been loyal to Goldman.

595
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 2: As a result, today he's a very loyal guy. And

596
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 2: then it was like this moment out of a few

597
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 2: good men. Do you remember that scene when Tom Cruise

598
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 2: meets Jack Nicholson and Nicholson realizes that Tom Cruise's father

599
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: was this very famous you know judge, And he said,

600
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,400
Speaker 2: you know, your dad is a Lionel Caffey, your dad

601
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 2: is a legend.

602
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 3: How is your dad?

603
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 2: And Tom Cruse looks at he goes, well, he died

604
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: twenty five years ago, sir. So like George said to me,

605
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: how is Gus? And I said, well, actually he died

606
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 2: twenty five.

607
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 3: Year Others.

608
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 4: Coming up, We talk about Jerry's transition from working with

609
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 4: an owner to becoming an owner himself, the Redbird Capital's

610
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 4: one point to billion dollar purchase of ac Milan, plus

611
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 4: restarting the XFL now the UFL with Dwayne the Rock Johnson.

612
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 4: Let's talk about a really important transition for you, which

613
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: is you leave Goldman, you go to Redbird, and you know,

614
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 4: before too long you consummate what is you know, arguably

615
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 4: the most important modern deal that you've done, which is

616
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 4: a seam A lot really want to want to get

617
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:38,560
Speaker 4: into that. But let's talk about that decision to leave Goldman.

618
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, you know it was that was the toughest,

619
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: toughest thing I've ever experienced and the best thing. But

620
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 2: the irony is it was all self imposed. I just

621
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 2: I had an entrepreneurial itch that I needed to scratch,

622
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,600
Speaker 2: and it was just, you know, the kind of stuff

623
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 2: that we do at Redbird. More and more the way

624
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 2: institutionalized financial on Wall Street has evolved, Well, you're just

625
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 2: not really getting compensated for that amount of activity and

626
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: that amount of rolling up your sleeves and really grinding

627
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 2: it out and everything else. And I say compensated not

628
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: just in terms of money, but just in terms of

629
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 2: the overall effort. And so I guess I had a

630
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: very philosophical moment where I said, you know what gets

631
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 2: me up in the morning?

632
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: What do I love?

633
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 2: And I love playing shadow entrepreneur and I like solving

634
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: problems with capital And it just so happens, you know,

635
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 2: luck in people's career. I happen to hit an inflection

636
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: point with sports that I couldn't possibly have seen coming

637
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 2: back in two thousand, two thousand and one. Right, you

638
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 2: look back on that the last twenty years and you're like,

639
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: you know, look's great. You really hit an air pocket

640
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: that you know you could where you took off. Now

641
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: the challenge is navigating that because now everybody's discovered sports.

642
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 2: Sports is now an asset class. That scares me When

643
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: I start to hear about things like sports being an

644
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: asset class, my initial reaction is to run any other way.

645
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 2: And so, you know, but I say, look, you can't

646
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 2: make money if you don't put money to.

647
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 4: Work, and so how does that manifest? Nacy Milan? I

648
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 4: mean we could debate this since yes, like kind of

649
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 4: the biggest swing you've taken. I mean, like you are

650
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 4: not an advisor, You're an owner, Like you're a full

651
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 4: on owner, you are a control owner of I think

652
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 4: it's fair to say one of the most storied athletic

653
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 4: clubs in the world, like name brand for sure.

654
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 3: How does that.

655
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 4: Deal come about? You've talked about doing all the work,

656
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,959
Speaker 4: you know, looking at hundreds of clubs. How does this

657
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 4: one come to fruition?

658
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: Look, you know, the other theme in the way we

659
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 2: invest is there is absolutely a virtue and continuity right,

660
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: And so if you looked at our whiteboard, it's just

661
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: a series of ven diagram rings. And you know, and

662
00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: I've said this before, you know, I wouldn't have had

663
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: on Location without Legends, and I wouldn't have had Legends

664
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: without Yes, and I wouldn't have had one team without

665
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: on Location, and I wouldn't have ever passed without you know,

666
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: the NFL deals that I've done five years ago connected

667
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 2: with Billy Bean, and I really got to give him

668
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: a lot of credit, you know. He you know, obviously

669
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 2: everyone knew him from Moneyball, but he encouraged us to

670
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:11,080
Speaker 2: start to take a look at European football. And I said,

671
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, why would I look at European football. Any

672
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: ecosystem that you have sovereign governments and you have Russian

673
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 2: oligarchs cannot be an ecosystem that I should even contemplate.

674
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: And he said, you know, you're missing the point. He said,

675
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 2: you know, the transfer market in relegation, which are the

676
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 2: fundamental pillars of economics in European football, is he had

677
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 2: his tailor made for Moneyball. He is, because you build

678
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 2: and buy low and you sell high. So you know,

679
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 2: we did a tutorial in European football met with you know,

680
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty two hundred teams on every country

681
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: on the continent and in England, and we made our first.

682
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: You and Billy sort of like taking on this bread, Like,

683
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 4: how does that work?

684
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: What's the mechanics?

685
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,479
Speaker 2: It's us, Billy, our team of guys at Redbird, and

686
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's just it's really just you know again,

687
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 2: you know this was a little bit before this U four.

688
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 2: I mean, we've been lucky in our timing because and

689
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: it's maybe it's my contrarian nature. If I had just

690
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: discovered this today, I wouldn't be doing it because there's

691
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: way too much for you. But back then, there really

692
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 2: wasn't a lot, you know, of our kind of people

693
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 2: are kind of capital chasing European football. Everyone is still

694
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 2: focused on NBA teams and stuff in the States, but

695
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 2: their ownership restrictions in the States. And so after doing

696
00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: all this work, we decided to make our first control

697
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: by which was to loose in League One. And you know,

698
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 2: it was great about that experience. I mean that was

699
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 2: really a training wheels investment. As much as we knew

700
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: about sports, we knew we didn't know anything about European football.

701
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 2: And obviously you're investing offshore, which I learned from my

702
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 2: days at Goldman. You know you never want to invest

703
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 2: off shore. You've got to be in the market, right,

704
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 2: So there was all the red flags of why not

705
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: to do this. I make a long story short. The

706
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 2: price talk around toul Loose was around sixty million euros.

707
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 2: It got relegated down to the second tier. We bought

708
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 2: it for fifteen million euros within within three months with

709
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 2: Billy and Luke Bourne and our team, our data analytics team,

710
00:34:07,040 --> 00:34:09,440
Speaker 2: we sold our first player for around fifteen million euros.

711
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 3: Wow.

712
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 2: And then within after the first year we got it

713
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 2: promoted back to the first tier. Now Toulouse is sort

714
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,239
Speaker 2: of playing middle of League One and with a very

715
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: reasonable payroll that would suggest you know that you know,

716
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 2: we'd be you know that we'd be spending a lot

717
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: more to be in the middle of the pack the

718
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,359
Speaker 2: way we are. European football is all about spending that

719
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: incremental dollar of capital better than the next guy. Then

720
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,319
Speaker 2: we invested in Fenway Sports Group during COVID because of

721
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 2: my belief in this kind of intellectual property. We went

722
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 2: Long Sports as a rights holder in COVID. We did

723
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: the XFL with Dwayne and Danny did Fenway Sports Group.

724
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 2: We did to Loose and you know, so Fenway I

725
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 2: got exposure to the big boys with Liverpool, right, So

726
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: that was the next step in the tutorial. That was

727
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: one of the first deals that I've done in sports.

728
00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: I think it's the only deal I've done in sports

729
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 2: where I very much in being a junior partner because

730
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: you know, I was so impressed with John Henry and

731
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: Tom Warner and Mike Gordon and Sam Kennedy that you know,

732
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 2: I said, my god, I think these guys are you know,

733
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: some of the best in all of sports. And the

734
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 2: way they thought I thought it was fantastic. And you know,

735
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 2: the conversation with them was could I come in and

736
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: add value to them in terms of what they want

737
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,440
Speaker 2: to do in version two point zero Fenway and so

738
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,560
Speaker 2: you know, we bought Lebron's and Maverick's business spring Hill

739
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: with a group of investors including Nike, and we bought

740
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 2: the Pittsburgh Penguins. So you know, we're building that out

741
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 2: and now hopefully we're going to partner with Lebron and

742
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: get an NBA team when he's ready to go. So

743
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 2: that was that part of the tutorial, but obviously looking

744
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 2: at Liverpool, getting into the Liverpool guys. Billy, to his credit,

745
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,960
Speaker 2: had been around ac Milan for several years, and we'd

746
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: sort of been watching it Italy, you know. But you know, again,

747
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 2: you think you know a lot about sports, but then

748
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: you realize you really don't. Because all the feedback every

749
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: time I would raise the concept of ac Milan internally

750
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 2: or back here in the States, everyone who said, you're crazy,

751
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: don't ever think about investing in Italy. But you know,

752
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 2: so the answer to your question is, you know, we

753
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 2: we Ultimately we were hanging around the hoop. Elliott were

754
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 2: the owners of ac Milan. They were in the debt.

755
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: Originally there was a Chinese owner and the Chinese owner

756
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,720
Speaker 2: hit the wall and Elliott came in foreclosed and became

757
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:22,479
Speaker 2: the equity owner.

758
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 4: And this is Paul Singer is very well Paul Singer,

759
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 4: you know hedge fun activists, sort of exactly.

760
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 2: So at first, you know, it's not someone you would

761
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: associate with owning a sports team. I think Paul would

762
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: tell you that, But I have to tell you what

763
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: The thing that really changed it for me was meeting

764
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 2: Paul and Gordon Singer his son, who really led the

765
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 2: investment in the team at Elliott. And you know, I

766
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: can't say enough good things about those guys. I'm very

767
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: public about how you know, they did a phenomenal job

768
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 2: in the four years that they owned ac Milan from

769
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: twenty eighteen to when we bought it in twenty two

770
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 2: of cleaning it up. And really it's impressive. Now, Gordon

771
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: Singer has a tremendous expertise in soccer. I mean he

772
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: just plays soccer himself and he knows.

773
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 3: It really well.

774
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: But they did a great job getting this cleaning up

775
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 2: all the brush and getting it playing defense and getting

776
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 2: it to a place where they could hand the baton

777
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: to us and then we could go on offense. And

778
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 2: so you know, I made the determination to keep them involved,

779
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,160
Speaker 2: and so we own one hundred percent of the equity

780
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,960
Speaker 2: by converted them into a seller note. And you know,

781
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,160
Speaker 2: we bought a seam Alan very attractively. You know, we

782
00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: I think we paid a fair price, but you know,

783
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 2: relative to some of these other prices that you see,

784
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 2: you know we pay I think we did. We bought

785
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 2: it for under a four times revenue multiple. And when

786
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,839
Speaker 2: we bought it, it was just slightly south of cash

787
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 2: flow positive or break even, and now we're meaningfully cash

788
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,800
Speaker 2: flow positive after our first year. Obviously, performance helps. We

789
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,719
Speaker 2: made it to semi finals of Champions League. And when

790
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: I took over, you know, it was challenging because they

791
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: had just won the Scudetto, which is the championship in Syria.

792
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,000
Speaker 2: So really, you know, I took a different approach than

793
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 2: I typically do, which is for the first year, I

794
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:57,759
Speaker 2: did nothing. Really wow, I just watched. But I'll tell

795
00:37:57,760 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: you over there, the best thing you can do is

796
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 2: don't go in guns play. Just watch absorb understand that.

797
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,240
Speaker 2: You know you're an American, so you got to prove yourself.

798
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 2: And there's a public private partnership in sports ownership over

799
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,840
Speaker 2: there you do not see in the US. Interesting, we

800
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:14,760
Speaker 2: made a lot of changes and we retooled the sporting

801
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 2: director side, and we also turned over half the team

802
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 2: from a players standpoint, and we got Captain America pooled

803
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 2: the Stitch as well as some other great players. And

804
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: so you know, the average age of our team is

805
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 2: twenty three years old. We have room to grow. And

806
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: you know, one of our inities also is building a

807
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: new stadium. It'll be the first stadium built in Italy

808
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 2: since twenty eleven. Wow, it'll be an American like stadium,

809
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 2: seventy thousand seats and you know, we're going to bring

810
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 2: music to Milan and build something a big live event

811
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 2: entertainment campus from Milan, really anchored by the team, something

812
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,640
Speaker 2: like AC Milan. I'll tell you it's interesting because we're

813
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:50,879
Speaker 2: going to need to find a way to crystallize value there.

814
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 2: But I mean that's something that you should probably own forever.

815
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: I mean that is that is as iconic as they get,

816
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,240
Speaker 2: and the opportunities to I mean that as a platform,

817
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 2: and we're going to build this new stadium. You know,

818
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,719
Speaker 2: when we're done building that stadium, I promise you we

819
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,720
Speaker 2: will have a company out of that that builds stadiums.

820
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 3: Right.

821
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 4: So interesting, I mean, speaking of these sort of connections

822
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,800
Speaker 4: and the and the echoes, I have to think that

823
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 4: when you're looking at AC Milan, certainly as an owner,

824
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,919
Speaker 4: you're thinking back to owners you've known over the years,

825
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 4: and one one person who's got to be sitting on

826
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 4: your shoulder as Steinbrenner.

827
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: Look, you know, it's a really great point and you

828
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: know the benefit of even though George's past, you know,

829
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 2: bringing the Yankees in with us in owning a C

830
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 2: Milan was meant to do a bunch of things, you know,

831
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,200
Speaker 2: I mean, it gives us a sounding board for exactly

832
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 2: that it's meant to say to the world, especially in Italy.

833
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 2: You know, we're going to bring a C Milan back

834
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: to the world class seat at the table. How more

835
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 2: world class can you get than the New York Yankees?

836
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, I've been around you know,

837
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 2: Jerry Jones and his family. I've been around Robert and

838
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,320
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kraft. I've been around these owners and it's you know,

839
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 2: I mean, it's these guys all do it the right

840
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 2: way and it just sort of absorb you just absorb it.

841
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 2: So I knew going into asum Milan. I don't make

842
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 2: a lot of the amateur mistakes that you see sometimes,

843
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,840
Speaker 2: you know, I remember one thing Georgia always said to me.

844
00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 2: You'd appreciate this, Alex. He said, whatever you do, never

845
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,480
Speaker 2: go into the locker room. Wow, don't fraternize with the players.

846
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 3: They have a job to do.

847
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: We have a job to do, and you know they're

848
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 2: never going to be your friends. You like them, you

849
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 2: have a beer with them, and everything else. But he said,

850
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: you gotta and so you know I And so it's

851
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: interesting because one of the first things that's come up

852
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 2: in Asium Milan is, you know, people keep saying to me,

853
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 2: you should come down into the locker room and see

854
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,360
Speaker 2: the players after the game. And I will not do

855
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 2: that because of George. And you know, it served me

856
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 2: well because you know, I don't. I'm not There's no

857
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: question about my motivations. I'm not hanging out with the players.

858
00:40:49,280 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 3: I'm not.

859
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 2: You know, this is there's no vanity in this. I'm

860
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:53,480
Speaker 2: completely unemotional about it. We have a job to do it,

861
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 2: so I'm I'm more belichick in the sense that it's like,

862
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 2: you know, everybody does their job, some of the parts

863
00:40:57,440 --> 00:40:59,440
Speaker 2: will be greater than the whole, right, And so this

864
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 2: is not some vanity play.

865
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 5: Jerry, I'm laughing my ass off because the irony is

866
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:09,480
Speaker 5: George had Jerry to be the bridge between Jeter, myself,

867
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 5: Mariano and George going to the locker room.

868
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:14,280
Speaker 3: Jerry was doing all the dirty.

869
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 2: Work, so funny or the good work. Yeah, well, I

870
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 2: send our CEO down but to deal with them, Yeah,

871
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: but that's you know, but that's really it. And then

872
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: and then obviously, you know, it's it is interesting over there,

873
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 2: the role of the fans. That's that's a new thing.

874
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: Like I can't imagine like Jerry and the Cowboys having to,

875
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 2: you know, having the fans, you know, question one of

876
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:35,279
Speaker 2: his moves or anything else. I mean, they could do it,

877
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: but they do it in a nice respectfully.

878
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 3: Over there.

879
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: You know, your the fans are your partner and you

880
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: have to treat them seriously and you have to and

881
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 2: they they do not suffer fools. They expect performance. I

882
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,959
Speaker 2: made the changes earlier in the summer and it led

883
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 2: to a very visceral reaction amongst the fan base. I

884
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 2: think I'm starting to get the benefit of the doubt

885
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,399
Speaker 2: from the fans now because they see the new team.

886
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 2: They see definitely that the team and the changes we

887
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,719
Speaker 2: made have been an improvement the team. They see the

888
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: potential of this team to really go far, both in

889
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: Italy and in Europe. And so you know, it's a

890
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 2: question of establishing yourself and getting credibility with the fans.

891
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 2: You know. The only thing is, you know, could we

892
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: do a better job of explaining our moves publicly? And

893
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 2: you know, I've also taken the approach of not trying

894
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 2: to do that.

895
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 3: You know, I haven't.

896
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 2: I haven't really interacted with the press and the media

897
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:25,319
Speaker 2: over there until recently, and so I'm trying to figure

898
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 2: out how best to do that so they can at

899
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:28,400
Speaker 2: least understand what we bring to the game.

900
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 4: What's the opportunity for Italian football in that case, and specifically,

901
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,960
Speaker 4: how does it play into discussions around media rights, which

902
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 4: obviously you know a little a little bit about where

903
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 4: do you see that going in the short and mid term?

904
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean Acey Milan has the second most

905
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 2: Champions League trophies in history, behind Real Madrid. I didn't

906
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 2: know that when I started looking at AC Milanow. You

907
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:56,040
Speaker 2: know what's interesting is, you know talk about George Steinbrenner.

908
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: You know, they want those championships under Silvio Berlosconi, Bertlasconi.

909
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: I always say Berlisconi was the George Steinberner of European football.

910
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:07,640
Speaker 2: He really was the first oligarch of European sports. I mean,

911
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 2: some of the players from that era are advisors to

912
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 2: us at Asi Milana, and they tell me these stories

913
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: about how Bertlosconi bought the team and then he went

914
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: to the locker room and he sat down with the

915
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,080
Speaker 2: players and he basically said, I'm running for Prime minister

916
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,960
Speaker 2: and so I need you to win. And he said,

917
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: not only win the Scudetto, which is the challenge, I

918
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 2: need you to win Champions League. And sure enough that

919
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 2: year they went out and they won the Champions League

920
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,040
Speaker 2: and Berlisconi became Prime Minister. Right, So one of those things,

921
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: and it's a true story in some form. And so

922
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,320
Speaker 2: you know what the ultimate arbitrage here, I think is

923
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: that ACE Mulan is truly one of the I think

924
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 2: it's one of the top four brands globally in football.

925
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 2: And now with the barriers coming down with streaming and

926
00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: the fact that you can get these games broadcast to

927
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 2: the States live, and the younger kids today all know,

928
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:58,920
Speaker 2: not just the Premier League. They I can't tell you

929
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 2: that I got more or shout outs from people people

930
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: I know, people I didn't know when we bought Assumlan

931
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: out of New York.

932
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:06,959
Speaker 3: Wow in the US.

933
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 2: Then I got out of Europe, no kidding. And so

934
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,399
Speaker 2: the media rights is going to be an evolution as well.

935
00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: You know, there's not a lot of competition for this

936
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 2: METEA rights in Europe.

937
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: All right, before we wrap up, I have to ask

938
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 4: you about American football, gridiron football, of which you have

939
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 4: now invested in in more of a startup ish kind

940
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:29,359
Speaker 4: of way.

941
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,240
Speaker 3: Give us the investment case for XFL.

942
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: I think that there is a demand for quality NFL

943
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 2: football in America twenty four to seven. I think if

944
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 2: you could have it, you know, if you didn't have

945
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: just seventeen games, and you had the ability to do

946
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 2: this a year round, I think there would be an

947
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: audience for that. So when I first started looking at

948
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 2: the XFL, I was looking at it with the NFL

949
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,920
Speaker 2: and Fox, and both of those guys educated me that

950
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 2: there is a legitimate need, legitimate demand for spring football.

951
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 2: So I go back to my point about binary risk.

952
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: You know, when you look at the history of the

953
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 2: USFL and the XFL, you know they come and go,

954
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: come and go, and so it doesn't really suggest a

955
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: track record of longevity. So I got comfortable on that

956
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 2: basis that there is enough interest in these local markets.

957
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 2: And then I look at, you know, the MLS model,

958
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 2: and I say, well, if we're putting NFL quality football

959
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 2: in these local markets, you know what I really want

960
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 2: to do. If MLS is a local content and local

961
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: content in a local market. I kind of look at

962
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,120
Speaker 2: the NFL the XFL and I say, well, if I

963
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: can do a national quality product in a local market,

964
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 2: that's going to be compelling. And that's what we're trying

965
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:37,759
Speaker 2: to do.

966
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 5: One one more thing again is like everything else you've done,

967
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 5: I know how much respect and what a great relationship

968
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 5: you have with Roger Goodell and the NFL. You're not

969
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 5: doing it to go up against it, but you're doing

970
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 5: it to complement because I miss football that springtime. The

971
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:54,520
Speaker 5: scarcity a little bit like UFC. The NFL is an

972
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 5: ultimate scarce act at only seventeen games plus playoffs in

973
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 5: Super Bowl. But then what and I love the way

974
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 5: you do able with respect to the NFL.

975
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:03,840
Speaker 2: One hundred percent. Look, you know, the first thing we

976
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: did when we bought the XFL at a bankruptcy with

977
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:09,280
Speaker 2: Dwayne and Danny as we got rid of the commissioner

978
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 2: title because my view is there's only one commissioner in football,

979
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:13,280
Speaker 2: and that's that's Roger.

980
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

981
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 2: And then the second thing we did is is and

982
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 2: I I am grateful to Roger and his team for

983
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 2: this is you know, I brought Dwayne and Danny in

984
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 2: and we sat down with Roger and what we basically

985
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 2: said is, you know, how can we be a worthy

986
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,439
Speaker 2: participant in the NFL ecosystem. The guys in the past,

987
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 2: you know, they tried to compete with the NFL. There's

988
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 2: no competing with the NFL. So if we can you know,

989
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 2: if you look at one metric for success that we

990
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 2: have eighty of our players from this past season, eighty

991
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 2: of our players made the NFL this year. Wow, that's

992
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:43,839
Speaker 2: a great metric for success because what does that tell

993
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,360
Speaker 2: you synthetically? You know, we can be we can be

994
00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 2: the development league, the minor league for the NFL, and

995
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 2: it's a great transition from college. The thing that Dwayne

996
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 2: really educated me on is, you know, there's only fifty

997
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,919
Speaker 2: three players on an NFL team or an XFL team,

998
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 2: But if you look at the quality of players coming

999
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 2: out of college as well as the other players that

1000
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:05,240
Speaker 2: are around out of college that didn't make the NFL,

1001
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: you could go eighty ninety and so you can field

1002
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 2: NFL quality football. That's what's so interesting, and it rejuvenates

1003
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: itself every year. And then you have a relationship with

1004
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 2: the NFL, and you know, in the NFL is collaborating

1005
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,200
Speaker 2: with us on rules, innovation, health and safety for the

1006
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 2: players things that it's easier for us to innovate on,

1007
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,439
Speaker 2: see how it goes, and then they can see whether

1008
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: they want to adopt it or not. So you know,

1009
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,759
Speaker 2: we're trying our best to be a worthy participant in

1010
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 2: the NFL ecosystem.

1011
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 5: What advice can you give a young viewers of how

1012
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:37,440
Speaker 5: to be a great entrepreneur and do what you're doing.

1013
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 2: It's an evolution and you don't just as a young

1014
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 2: person show up and be that. I think you have

1015
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 2: to determine. The first thing is and I give a

1016
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 2: lot of advice to a lot of young people. You know,

1017
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: figure out your DNA. You know, are you a natural

1018
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: investor or not a natural investor? And you can invest

1019
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 2: being one or the other. It's nature nurture. But I'm

1020
00:47:56,360 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: always intrigued by young people who just haven't an innate

1021
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 2: smell for making money for risk and and that know

1022
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 2: how to invest, because you can't teach that right And

1023
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: so that's that's one thing. Second thing is I would

1024
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 2: definitely say I think the pendulum is going to swing back,

1025
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,919
Speaker 2: and I think it's it can't just be about the money.

1026
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 2: And I know that sounds, you know, a little lofty

1027
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 2: coming from me. So what I'd say too, if you know,

1028
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 2: to young people today is obviously follow your passion and

1029
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,360
Speaker 2: don't worry about the money. The money will come, but

1030
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: it's the passion and figuring out you know, do you

1031
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 2: have a nose for investing that really will serve you

1032
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: well if you in the in the as you're you know,

1033
00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: first starting out.

1034
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 3: Love that my man delivered.

1035
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,799
Speaker 4: Now, I mean right, this was great, a great thank

1036
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 4: thank you so much for coming in. This is fun

1037
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,319
Speaker 4: and this is the side of him I've never seen,

1038
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 4: you know, bouncing back and forth.

1039
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 3: That's great. Thank thank you so much.

1040
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: Who would have thought twenty years ago whatever we'd be here.

1041
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 2: So congrats on all that you're doing.

1042
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 5: Thank you.

1043
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 3: I'm proud of you.

1044
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:51,919
Speaker 2: Thanks Jery.

1045
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 5: Awesome.

1046
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 4: Since our talk with Cardinal, Bloomberg has reported that an

1047
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 4: Italian is probing whether Elliott Management continues to maintain control

1048
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 4: of Acy Milan, despite club officials informing the Italian Football

1049
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 4: Federation that ownership had changed. Elliott has denied the allegations.

1050
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 4: Redbird has said it's cooperating with the inquiry and said

1051
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 4: quote the notion that Redbird doesn't own and control. Ac

1052
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,280
Speaker 4: Milan is just false and contradicts all the evidence and facts.

1053
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: The Deals in production from Bloomberg Podcasts and Bloomberg Originals.

1054
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: The Deals hosted by Alex Rodriguez and Jason Kelly. Our

1055
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: producers are Victor Yveyez and Lizzie Phillip. Our story editor

1056
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 1: is Sir Dartha Mohonta. Our system producer is Stacy Wong.

1057
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 1: Rubab Shikir is our creative director. Our direction is from

1058
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: Jacqueline Kessler. Original music by Blake Maples, casting by Dave Warren.

1059
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: Our managing editor is David Ravella Kative producers r s. H. Bauman,

1060
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:08,160
Speaker 1: Jason Kelly, Adam Kamiski, Kelly Laferrier, Ashley Hoenig, Tray Shallohorn,

1061
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:13,879
Speaker 1: Kyle Kramer, and Andrew Barden. Additional support from Rachel Scarmuzino,

1062
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: Elena So Los Angeles, Vanessa Perdomo and Anna Masaakis. Billy

1063
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 1: Vouerman is our director of photography. Lannon Jones and George L.

1064
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: Silowie are camera operators. Katia Vanoy is our video editor.

1065
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:33,359
Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Miguel Viaba. You can also watch

1066
00:50:33,440 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 1: the Deal on Bloomberg Originals on YouTube and Bloomberg Television.

1067
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 1: Subscribe to the Deal wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks

1068
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:41,360
Speaker 1: for listening.