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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Coast to Coast AM. I only cigar

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Speaker 1: and my guest is ed Tick and he has a

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Speaker 1: new book out called Soul Medicine Healing through Dream, Incubation, Visions,

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Speaker 1: Oracles and Pilgrimages. And before the break and you were

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Speaker 1: talking about the healing well spinal stenosis and how a

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Speaker 1: lot of the diagnosis you were getting were to do

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Speaker 1: the injections and various symptomatic effects. How did you get

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Speaker 1: to the base of the soul medicine part of it?

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Speaker 1: Could you give us an example? Sure, I can give

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Speaker 1: about many, all right, So one matter is what we

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Speaker 1: were saying earlier that we need our healers to listen

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Speaker 1: deeply to us, to not just ask what our symptoms

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Speaker 1: are and give automatic responses through surgeries or through medications.

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Speaker 1: Here's a drug to take care of the symptom. So

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Speaker 1: when we wipe out the symptom, we're actually wiping out

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Speaker 1: the messages that our souls are giving us, that our

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Speaker 1: spiritual centers are giving us. Symptoms are symbols from our

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Speaker 1: center through our body trying to tell us what is

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Speaker 1: going on. What's wrong when we haven't been listening, or

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Speaker 1: when for a long time, our lifestyles and practices have

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Speaker 1: accumulated and we've ignored our true deep needs. So back

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Speaker 1: to my spinal spinosis. As I shared, most medical professionals

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Speaker 1: just listened to the symptom and wanted to give injections

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Speaker 1: and surgeries, and I refuse that. I refuse that and

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Speaker 1: kept looking for help and support. Only one physician in

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Speaker 1: all of my searching said to me, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to hear the diagnosis. We don't even know if the

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Speaker 1: diagnosis is right. Please sit down and tell me your experiences.

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Speaker 1: So he wanted to hear how I'm experiencing the symptoms

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Speaker 1: in my body, and we also wanted to hear how

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Speaker 1: long I've had them, how are I related to my

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Speaker 1: life story? When did I first notice them? And how

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Speaker 1: do I deal with the pressure and stress? So he

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Speaker 1: was the only position of five years of searching that

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Speaker 1: did any disinte But beyond that, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about how I've learned about well, just real quick? Did

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Speaker 1: it help? It did? Was that an effective result for

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Speaker 1: you to have that? What was the result of the back?

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Speaker 1: The result of that was for me to say, oh,

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Speaker 1: I actually don't have stenosis. He said that after years

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Speaker 1: of searching and so many professionals saying, because we looked

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Speaker 1: at your MRI, that's what you had. No, Actually, I've

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Speaker 1: had spinal degeneration for decades, but it never broke down.

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Speaker 1: And what helped was what are you experiencing why now

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Speaker 1: in your life cycle as the pressure built up so

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Speaker 1: much that you're registering this as a disability, and what

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Speaker 1: do you have to do with your life to lighten

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Speaker 1: your burdens. So the deep talking affirm that I was

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Speaker 1: going in the right direction of looking at my whole being,

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Speaker 1: not just treating the symptoms. I'm going to jump to

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Speaker 1: something else, to dream incubation. Yes, I did have dream

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Speaker 1: incubations about this condition, and some extraordinary things happened that

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Speaker 1: are almost unbelievable. So as we said, dream incubation occurred

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Speaker 1: when people remove themselves from the mainstream and why and

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Speaker 1: on healing pilgrimages or to holistic health centers and remove

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Speaker 1: themselves fasted prede focused on whatever need is coming through

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Speaker 1: their body and their their lives and asking for help

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Speaker 1: from the divine. So I lead as we're sharing tonight,

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Speaker 1: I be doing journeys to Greece. I also lead healing

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Speaker 1: journeys to Vietnam, and I've been working with our veterans

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Speaker 1: in these manners holistic healing a post traumatic stress disorder

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Speaker 1: for decades. That is fascinating. I want to talk with

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Speaker 1: you about that where we can where you can go

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Speaker 1: there and we can put them together. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: share a dream incubation that I actually experienced in Vietnam

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Speaker 1: about healing my spinal stenosis. Okay, okay, So this is

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Speaker 1: put all the world traditions together into their universal components

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Speaker 1: and symbols. I had a group in Vietnam. We were

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Speaker 1: in the Mekong Delta, in very remote area. We were

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Speaker 1: staying for several nights in actually in the little compound

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Speaker 1: of a Vietcong veteran who has become a friend and

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Speaker 1: his helpless help American veterans heal. So he has a

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Speaker 1: compound built on stilts right above the Mekong River. I

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Speaker 1: was sleeping on a cot there with my sphenosis. I

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Speaker 1: was that it was bad that time. I was on crutches,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even walk upright well. One night sleeping on

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Speaker 1: that river and hoping and praying for some relief from

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Speaker 1: my pain and my struggles. I had a dream that

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Speaker 1: a giant snake, like a four foot long snake, came

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Speaker 1: out of the river, climbed up the pilings, climbed up

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Speaker 1: onto my cot and bit me in sank it's things

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Speaker 1: right into my left side. And even right now as

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Speaker 1: I tell you that story, I can heel in my

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Speaker 1: thigh where that dream snake fit me. So that from

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Speaker 1: the Escopian tradition, I was asleep at night unretreat in

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Speaker 1: a remote place, and a snake crawled up like a

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Speaker 1: congiant Conducius and wrapped around the filings and climbed up

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Speaker 1: out of the river and up onto my cot and

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Speaker 1: then bit me. What I experienced I, as I shared,

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Speaker 1: I was work walking on crutches. Then when I woke

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Speaker 1: up that morning after that snake by dream, I had

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Speaker 1: no pain, I had no struggle. I didn't need the

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Speaker 1: crust of it, didn't need the crutches at all. I

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Speaker 1: was dancing. I was climbing mountains again. I was dancing.

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Speaker 1: I was dancing through the streets of the Vietnam, singing

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Speaker 1: and completely pain free. So this is an example of

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Speaker 1: a spontaneous dream incubation on issues I've been working on

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Speaker 1: for years while I was on a healing journey trying

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Speaker 1: to help others, and it came in this ancient esclepion

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Speaker 1: form that of course I immediately recognized because I've been

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Speaker 1: working in this tradition right right. It also taught me

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Speaker 1: that my body can do this, that yes, in fact,

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Speaker 1: this is a holistic problem, not a physical deterioration. When

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Speaker 1: a medical professionals have been told or telling me that

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Speaker 1: I was chronically disabled and I'd probably end up in

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Speaker 1: a wheelchair, but the dream showed me that no, that's

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Speaker 1: not the case, and I can somehow be in better

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Speaker 1: balance with my life, with my burdens, and I can

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Speaker 1: learn to walk again and dance and climb mountains, which

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Speaker 1: I now can do. And you still that lasted for you?

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Speaker 1: I think it's for five years later and I'm fined. Really,

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Speaker 1: I can climb again, I can hike and climb mountains again,

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Speaker 1: and I have very little pain. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: we don't also have physiological conditions and challenges, right. I

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Speaker 1: do have neuropathy in my seat, so I have reminders

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Speaker 1: that my body was afflicted and changes have happened in

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Speaker 1: my body. But beyond that, I don't have issues, and

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy and I'm doing well well, and that

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Speaker 1: also it has to do with the Vietnam and the trips.

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Speaker 1: Were you in the Vietnam War? No, I wasn't. I'm

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Speaker 1: that age. I'm seventy one. So I was in college

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Speaker 1: during the Vietnam War and I was protesting it quite passionately.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't a leader. I was in the

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Speaker 1: front lines of the protest movement. And now you bring

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Speaker 1: groups there to cause healing. Right, they're really struggling with

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Speaker 1: PTSD from that war. Right. Oh, yes, I've been. We

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Speaker 1: can connect these the Greek in the Vietnam these wars

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Speaker 1: and traditions as well, if we can go in that direction.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I've been working with our veterans from Vietnam

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Speaker 1: since the late nineteen seventies, before post traumatic stress disorder

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Speaker 1: was even a diagnosis. Wow, I'll put this together with

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Speaker 1: our Greek studies. It's really fascinating. So I worked. I

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Speaker 1: began in the mid to late nineteen seventies. I was

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Speaker 1: working as a psychotherapist with our veterans for about eight

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Speaker 1: or ten years. I realized that as the problems of

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Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder are so deep, so comprehensive, that

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Speaker 1: ordinary talk therapy was not going to be enough to

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Speaker 1: heal them. Right, I went to Greece. Actually, this is

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Speaker 1: way back nineteen eighty seven, after about a decade of

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Speaker 1: work with our veterans, I went to Greece to study

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Speaker 1: the ancient citizen warrior tradition. There, warfare was endemic to

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Speaker 1: their culture. That I assume that and to world's history.

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Speaker 1: That I assume that other cultures from other times and

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Speaker 1: places must have had comprehensive ways for bringing their veterans

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Speaker 1: home and healing the wound we call PTSC. Well, in

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Speaker 1: my lifelong work in these traditions, I've learned that what

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Speaker 1: the wound we call PTSD has been part of civilization

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Speaker 1: and part of violence and warfare forever. The word trauma

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Speaker 1: itself comes from ancient Greek. It is an ancient Greek

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Speaker 1: word that meant to stabbing or a piercing wound, like

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Speaker 1: from a spear or an arrow or a sword. But

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Speaker 1: to the ancient people, the piercing was to the soul

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Speaker 1: as well as to the bodies everything. When we are wounded,

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Speaker 1: when we are violated, the origin of the word violence

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Speaker 1: violates our being. Every part of us is wounded, not

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Speaker 1: just our body, but our minds, our hearts, our souls

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Speaker 1: as well. So I was going to Greece to study this.

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Speaker 1: I went to Well, it's a place called the pros

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Speaker 1: and Epidaurus in the English spelling, and it was the

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Speaker 1: principal healing sanctuary of the ancient world. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: that at the time. I went to see ancient theater.

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Speaker 1: It has a huge fourteen thousand seat theater in the

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Speaker 1: ancient world that still used every summer for ancient theater festivals.

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Speaker 1: The night I went, the play The Trojan Women was

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Speaker 1: in performance. The Trojan Women was by Euripides. Euripides had

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Speaker 1: been a general in the Athenian army. He wrote this

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Speaker 1: play to protest what the Athenians were doing during the

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Speaker 1: Peloponnesian War. He was actually protesting atrocities that the army

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Speaker 1: was committed, even though he had been a general and

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Speaker 1: very devoted to his people on his service. All right,

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Speaker 1: So I saw that play in the ancient sanctuary and

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Speaker 1: at night by torch life. Nothing was really performed in

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Speaker 1: the ancient way. It was extraordinary during that play. That

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Speaker 1: play demonstrates all the wounds of war. It happens after

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Speaker 1: the Trojan War, when the Greeks have defeated the Trojans

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Speaker 1: and they're sacking the city. They're taking all the women

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Speaker 1: away as prisoners and as slaves. They've killed all the men,

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Speaker 1: they're killing off the children. So we see all of

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Speaker 1: the horrors of war portrayed on the stage in the

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Speaker 1: most intense dramatic form, with very, very moving poetry. I

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Speaker 1: experienced that we used the word catharsis earlier. I experienced

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Speaker 1: catharsis in that play. The word anathema. It's also ancient Greek,

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Speaker 1: and the Queen of Troy was screaming from the core

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Speaker 1: of her being anathma. War is anathema. It's against the theme,

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Speaker 1: against the way, against the order of life. It's destructive

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Speaker 1: and reverses everything. Well, it's hard to describe what I

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Speaker 1: experienced in the theater that knife, but it changed my life.

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Speaker 1: I went to that play as a healer for Vietnam veterans.

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Speaker 1: I realized through that play that all wars, from all

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Speaker 1: times and all places are the same. It's not primarily

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Speaker 1: about politics or economics in the moment. It's about the

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Speaker 1: horrors that we do to life and how we turn

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Speaker 1: our creative energies, our resources each other against the life

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Speaker 1: force itself. And nathema is the soul wound that anybody

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Speaker 1: feels coming out of war. I've gone into the theaters

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Speaker 1: thinking of myself as a psychotherapist of Vietnam veterans. I

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Speaker 1: came out of the theater saying, no, I'm called to

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Speaker 1: address and heal violence trauma anytime, in any way, in

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Speaker 1: whatever form it comes. And all wars and acts of

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Speaker 1: violence are essentially the same, the archetypal They recur again

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Speaker 1: and again, and they have the same themes throughout history,

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Speaker 1: and so I was kind of called to address and

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Speaker 1: heal all of this, and that cathartic experience I had

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Speaker 1: changed my attitudes and my values and my understanding of

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Speaker 1: warfare and the human relationship to it forever. And it

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Speaker 1: also taught me what theater can do that thense healing experience,

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Speaker 1: and it also propelled me as I said it. The

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Speaker 1: theater was at the principal healing sanctuary, and so I said,

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about this healing tradition, and I

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Speaker 1: don't know why theaters are here, so I need to

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Speaker 1: research this. And that's when I began researching and using

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Speaker 1: the Yescopian tradition and applying it to everybody's healing. Means.

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Speaker 1: The theater essentially is just like the dream incubation because

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Speaker 1: it's a dark space and it hits these images that

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Speaker 1: are supplied for you. But if you go deep enough

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Speaker 1: into it, you could get your own healing. As you

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Speaker 1: just did, as you just described exactly, and that's what

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Speaker 1: you do with story as well. Encourage people to tell

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Speaker 1: their stories as fully, as symbolically, as emotionally as they

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Speaker 1: possibly can, and that itself, they put their story together,

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Speaker 1: the different puzzle pieces of their lives, and they achieve

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Speaker 1: healing through catharsis of the varied emotions and through the

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Speaker 1: expression and through making it public through sharing, not just

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Speaker 1: keeping the stories locked up inside us. So exactly what

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Speaker 1: I t yes, and that's what theater does for us. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it does. This is so fascinating because I mean, I

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Speaker 1: will just coincidentally, my father's not only a doctor, but

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Speaker 1: he was also a Vietnam vet and he also had

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Speaker 1: these experiences of PTSD regardless of his ability to heal it,

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Speaker 1: and went through the typical neuropathy of the Vietnam tragedy.

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Speaker 1: Because of Agent Orange. And I know that there had

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Speaker 1: to been just as much damage that was done to

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Speaker 1: the Vietnamese people and their land by killing all the

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Speaker 1: foliolage and the forestry and the people, and the devastation

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Speaker 1: that happened there. It is a universal theme. As you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: war is harmed to all humanity in that case and

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Speaker 1: it was. That's an incredible humanitarian perspective that you saw

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Speaker 1: and that you take people there is your story continuing

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Speaker 1: to play itself out over and over again, and that's

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Speaker 1: a perfect example of how stry heels. Listen to more

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Speaker 1: Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one a m.

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Speaker 1: Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot com

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Speaker 1: for more