WEBVTT - Ep. 086: The Meat Tree, Part 1 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:13.320 This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely, 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:18.279 bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:26.599 can't predict anything, Okay, man, first and foremost, before this 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.720 program starts, go to however you listen to this podcast, 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:34.640 go on there and give the podcast is super good 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.640 five star reviewer as high as the stars go. Just 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:42.120 go all the way to the right and quick click 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:46.320 the right most star so that you get all the stars. 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.520 And then also while you're there, make sure to subscribe 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.319 to the podcast. What happens then is you don't need 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:56.440 to go messing around every week getting it just comes 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.200 to you. It's good for you, it's good for us. 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:03.760 And go to the meat eater dot com. Check out 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.200 the store. We got all kinds of branded first light 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.280 apparel and solids and camel bitching hats shirts. You can 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:13.680 also go and get the show notes for the podcast, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.600 where if we're talking about books, music, ideas, research studies, 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.120 hunting info, fishing info, it's all there in the show notes. 0:01:22.160 --> 0:01:24.200 So if you if we're talking about something and you're like, man, 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:27.000 I wish I knew what they were talking about. I 0:01:27.040 --> 0:01:29.400 wish I could find that book, go there and you'll 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.520 find the book. Yeah, you can also read the weekly 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:37.119 blog pieces that are often written by Henderson man Brodie 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.520 and Henderson is often on this show, sometimes by you. 0:01:39.720 --> 0:01:42.679 He has a very relaxed, casual tone on this show. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.440 So do all that stuff and get it taken care 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:50.680 of right away, and now for the show. Uh, dirt, 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:54.480 I notice you're running like a like a like a 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:57.280 chew that has a little package around like a school bandit. 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.800 Why why not the normal kind of just where the 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.240 little grip pieces get all over your teeth. Just keep 0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.520 it classy and that's nice. B and B Is that why? 0:02:07.760 --> 0:02:09.640 Well too, I don't have to spit as much, but 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:12.760 you're spitting into that that juice bottle. Yeah, what gets 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:17.720 me is just disgusting. Man, he's chewing gum, chewing chew 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.320 and spitting in a bottle while trying to talk. Is 0:02:21.360 --> 0:02:25.000 that nicotine gum? No? No. One of my favorite stories 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.960 of Dirts is he had a girlfriend um Don in 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.960 Arkansas and he was down there spitting all over the 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:37.040 yard visiting her family, and the old man took him aside. 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.760 Were more liberal people who were barefoot most of the time. 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:44.680 You don't think conservatives go barefoot. These guys, I have 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:46.760 a lot of conservative views, and I like going barefoot 0:02:46.760 --> 0:02:49.560 in my yard. You wouldn't like stepping on wet grasp 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.080 right then either. That's this guy didn't didn't like me 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.800 spitting where he was stepping. But I don't think that 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.040 has a That's not a function of his. Uh, that's 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.520 not a function of his of his politics. That's true. 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.400 They were. They were thinking like a conservative would be like, yeah, man, 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:09.200 one thing I like is walking and choose spit. That's true. 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.840 I do think politics influence people. For like you know 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.560 I've brought many times, is that that um being gluten 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.880 intolerance seems to be a left wing ailment. But I 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.200 don't think a lack of a desire to walk around 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:26.760 and choose spit is part of the political polite. It was. 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.680 They were right on telling me not to do that. 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.240 So they were right wing. They were correct. They were correct. Yes, 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:35.000 I stopped. I'd spit out on the back forty instead, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.520 you'd take a little walk stood over the fence of 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:42.280 the high grass area. Was courteous. Yeah, um, Dirk, did 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.920 you know that? Uh? You know what the word ursus means. 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.720 I know the constellation Ursus minor. Yeah, okay, Ursus is 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.200 the bear family. I didn't know that. Did you know that? 0:03:55.480 --> 0:04:01.320 Of the that the the ursus with the greatest distribution 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:07.920 is the brown bear slash grizzly bear. No. I believe 0:04:07.920 --> 0:04:14.040 it though, Yeah, because you know Eurasia right, connection just 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:18.679 has the widest distribution of any bear. There's many versions 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:21.880 of it now, it's you know, they used called the 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:29.240 grizzly bear Ursus criblis, which is bad pr because horrible. Yeah. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.640 So when you get like a Linnaean name, you have 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:36.160 I feel we talked about this before, like the Latin name, right, 0:04:36.200 --> 0:04:38.800 it's from Linnaeus, and Linnaeus came up with the way 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:45.240 we name animals. So the domestic dog is you know 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:51.320 can is familiaris right, that's its Linnaean name. Uh, we 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.440 are homo sapien so self aware of human, self aware 0:04:55.440 --> 0:04:59.480 of homedan um. I don't think we have covered this. 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:04.560 We haven't covered nan are we homo sapien sapien? Well, yeah, 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.320 see that's like that's when things have h that's called 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:13.760 trinomial nomenclature. So the brown bear slash grizzly bear is 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:18.839 Ursus arctos. But there's ursus arctos arctos, or some people 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.200 like like take take the American bison or American buffalo. 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.279 There is there used to be this idea that we 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:32.760 had bison bison, bison, which was the planes animal, and 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:37.599 then bison bison athabaska, which was the wood buffalo of 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:41.440 the boreal forest. And we used to just make the 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.920 you know, these determinations were made oftentimes by morphological differences, 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:47.800 so you would look and like, let's look at the 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.680 structure of an animal, the visual appearance of an animal 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.400 and draw distinctions. But then once we started getting once 0:05:54.440 --> 0:06:00.839 genetics got involved, it started showing us that things that 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:05.760 we thought that measured by that parameter, by the genetic markers, 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:08.359 things that we thought were very simple, Some things we 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:12.080 thought were very similar are in fact not similar at all. 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.440 That just happened to like accidentally arrive at a place 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.800 where they kind of look the same, right, And an 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.520 extreme version would be birds fly and dragonflies fly, So 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:27.680 someone would go like they must be closely related, but 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.520 in fact they came to flight through very different paths. Okay, 0:06:31.600 --> 0:06:36.040 so there you have a thing where like um convergent evolution. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.560 So yeah, like ideas about convergent and divergent evolution. But 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.000 in those cases like they're similarity that there's things that 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.080 we would see and someone would be like, oh, they're 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.320 similar because they both blank. But we realize that doesn't 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:51.880 denote like a close related nous. So genetics dispelled some 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.000 of those misunderstandings, but it also showed us that some 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:57.200 things that we thought were very different are in fact 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:03.039 very close together. Like for instance, that the ABC Islands 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:08.880 in Alaska, Admiralty bearing Off and what's that chick under 0:07:08.920 --> 0:07:13.240 the name, It's Admiralty Island bearing Off Island, and then uh, 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:17.000 the Sea Island. They're together there. The polar bears that 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:21.320 those okay, those bears on that island are like Ursus arctos. Okay, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:23.480 so they're like coastal brown bears. Will get more into 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:28.000 this in a second. Chickagolf Chickergolf Island, Chickagolf Island. I 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:33.080 think it's there's there's in both places. Oh alright, so 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:38.320 that one anyway, polar bears are are a recent offshoot 0:07:38.360 --> 0:07:41.600 of Ursus arctos. So polar bears are if you're just 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:47.080 from a genetic perspective, polar bears aren't are almost like 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:51.680 a cousin of or almost like a clade of brown bears, 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:57.720 and polar bears are very closely related to the brown 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:02.360 bears of the ABC Islands, even though those brown bears 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.000 tend to be darker than other brown bear, grizzly bears 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.640 and other parts of the world. So coloration. If you're like, 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:13.760 oh there, you're like you, you might look and be like, okay, 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:17.640 the in the bears of interior North Alaska. So the 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:21.320 grizzlies of the Brooks Range are tend to be blond. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.160 So someone might be like, oh so if if polar 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:30.920 bears are shoot off of grizzly brown bears, I would 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:34.160 imagine they're shoot off of those very blond ones that 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:37.480 are already in the Arctic on the north slope of 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.560 the Brooks Range, when in fact, those bears are not 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.920 tightly related as tightly related to polar bears as are 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:49.559 the brown bears of the ABC Islands. Now where is 0:08:49.559 --> 0:08:51.760 that going from there? Oh So, another added thing of 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:53.280 that is this is the point I was trying to 0:08:53.320 --> 0:08:55.320 get at, because I'm trying to go way deep. I'm 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:58.079 gonna talk about a grizzly bear semi attack, but I'm 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:00.640 gonna go I'm going way deep because here's the thing. 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.760 I just want to clarify a point that brown bears 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:10.920 and grizzly bears are all ursus arctos. We used to 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:12.720 have We used to have this idea that we had 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:17.640 all these different subspecies of bears, all right, So we 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:20.640 had like the Kodiac brown bear, which are the biggest 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:25.080 ones in the world. Um. Then you have like polar 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:29.240 bears that's their own thing, arctists maritimas or something like 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.640 the artist maritimeas, something like that, like marine bear um 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:38.000 is regarded as a different species though very closely related. 0:09:38.600 --> 0:09:40.360 And then you have like the grizzly bears of the 0:09:40.400 --> 0:09:43.839 lower forty eight and the interior Northern Canada. Those are 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:46.360 all one species. And the way they talk about in 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:50.120 genetics is they talk about it being clades, so rather 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.920 than subspecies, they now talk about clades or like genetic 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.520 groupings of bears that are all kind of the same thing. 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:59.120 But in hunting Lingo and around, you'll be able to 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:03.959 chime in on this, Okay, and hunting Lingo, when someone 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:08.920 says a brown bear, what they're referring to is a 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:17.760 coastal grizzly of Alaska. Correct, But now I've always understood 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:22.600 though grizzly bears are brown bears, but not all brown 0:10:22.600 --> 0:10:25.840 bears are referred to as grizzly bears. See what I'm saying, 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:29.440 A brown bear is a grizzly, So grizzly can be 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:32.240 a brown bear or a grizzly, But you can't call 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.560 a brown bear a grizzly because it's completely like you're saying. 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.120 If you were in Wyoming, you would not be able 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:39.760 to say, hey, I saw a brown bear, or you 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:41.160 would be able to say I saw a brown bear. 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.640 A grizzly is a brown bear. A brown bear is 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.080 not a grizzly. The word grizzly is a delineation of 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:52.440 where they live. So so you would be incorrect saying 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:58.160 a grizzly on Kodiak Island by okay, but but but 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:04.520 what yes, if we're if we're switching the hunting lingo, okay, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.640 then yes, but even normally you know, yeah, it's just 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:11.560 the brown bears. Correct, Yeah, we're talking. Yeah, so yeah, 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:13.360 I think that if you yeah, if you're talking like 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:18.640 in nan like scientific lingo, it would be that a 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:22.600 grizzly is a form of brown bear. Correct, Yes, but 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.720 just to clarify because people always get that confused. It's like, well, 0:11:25.840 --> 0:11:28.720 is a brown bear. A brown bear is not a 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:33.280 coastal grizzly. A grizzly is an inland brown bear. It 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:35.120 doesn't go both ways, That's what. Yeah, that's what I'm 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.480 trying to get at this point. So that that's that's 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:39.640 a good clarification. Like if you want to go read 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.840 about the whole broad general family of of of these 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.439 types of bears of Ursus arctos, correct, that you would 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:52.040 begin the top of the funnel, right, we're talking about 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.839 the funnels earlier. The top of the funnel would be 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:58.040 brown bears, and then from there you will find your 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:04.120 way into the himlayan brown bear, the the interior rocky mountains, 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.240 grizzly bears. These are all classifications of brown bears brown bears. 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.839 So but in like in in the way we in 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:16.240 the way that hunting type dudes use the term. Now 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:20.760 when we're talking about a grizzly, we're talking about a 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:25.240 a grouping of brown bears that that do not live 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.840 in coastal environments and do not have access to salmon. Correct, 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:34.400 they're not exploiting marine resources. They are in the interior. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:39.360 Those bears tend to be to have a grizzled appearance. 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:46.679 They tend to be silvery blonde lighter and you're coastal 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:51.880 bears tend to be coastal brown. Bears tend to be 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:58.760 darker brown, running to chocolate. The bears the the largest 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:01.000 of this whole group of bears which are many and 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:04.959 varied from Romania and the Himalaya all over damn place. 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:14.520 The largest ones live on uh the Kodiak Archipelago, which 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:19.599 includes a fog Knack Island, Fog Raspberry, Kodiak and do 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.280 we talk about this the other day? And the Alaska 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:24.360 Financia did we talk about this the other day? That 0:13:24.559 --> 0:13:27.640 those bears, the bears on Kodiak and the fog Knack 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.400 and Raspberry have been genetically isolated for ten thousand years 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.920 to be cover this we touch it, ok. So they've 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:38.760 been off doing their own on their own vibe for 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:42.800 a long time. Big mo fosi, as my son would say, 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:46.880 no bad mofos. He doesn't know what a mofo actually 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:49.200 spells out Toobody knows that there are animals that are 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:54.920 counted as bad mo fos um Uh that's I'm just 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.360 laying a little unnecessary groundwork for for for what's gonna 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.559 come next. Uh. Now, where we left off on the 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.559 last episode, we were fixing to do some l cotton 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.280 on a fognack and just as a primer, But if 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:10.440 you watch television, you'll know certain television shows, after every 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.280 commercial break, they they out of a courtesy, as a 0:14:13.320 --> 0:14:15.760 courtesy to the viewer and also as a courtesy to 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:19.560 their budget, spend some minutes just recapping what they covered 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.040 a moment ago, which saves them money in production and 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.560 also like gives you, keeps you up to speed if 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:29.400 you just joined in the program. We uh me and 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:34.280 Remy Warren drew some elk tags on a fog Neck island. 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:38.600 And the fog Neck Island is just separated from Kodiak 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.720 Island by a narrow straight and I remember the name 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:47.880 now that might not be the exact pronunciation, but and 0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:50.880 raspberry straight. Yeah, lots of out here has a Roosky name, 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.520 a Russian name, Russian name. And then there's shellakof which 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.640 is the big more open ocean between the mainland. That's 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.520 the rough, real rough seas there. Since we did the 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:02.920 real clumsy uh and since we did a real clumsy 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:08.240 recap of of general Bear tax on, I mean, let's 0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:12.640 do a real clumsy recap of uh Coastal Alaska history. Now, 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:16.200 the uh, the Russians were real heavy, worked real heavy 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.640 in this area, and they were in the you know 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:21.680 that they would use this area for fur trading so 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:26.760 um seal and they'd come in here primarily targeting sea 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:31.680 otters or buying sea otters from indigenous hunters, um wailing 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:35.160 all that kind of stuff. And then we bought it. Uh, 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.040 you know, Seward bought it for like five bucks, and 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:40.760 people were real mad at the time that he got 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.000 ripped off and turned out he got himself into a 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:47.080 gold mine. Um So, that's how this place came into 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:50.400 us ownership. It wasn't five bucks, but he got a scream. 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.680 I'm being I'm being an extreme here in in my 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.160 uh in my assessments of what he paid for it, 0:15:56.200 --> 0:15:58.640 But yeah, he gotta scream and deal on it. People 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.160 were kind of piste. They called it the words folly. 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.480 I thought he got ripped, but in the end, I 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.320 mean he the guy did a great turn for his country. 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:11.360 Um So in some of the areas in Coastal Alaska. 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.840 There's like still kind of a Russian influence and names 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.480 you notice in this area in particulars a lot of 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:19.640 Russian names in this area from the long even the 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:27.200 airport English and Russian. Is it really? Uh? Now, so 0:16:27.360 --> 0:16:30.360 we drew these these these these elk tags. Now a 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.840 fog Neck Island does not traditionally have elk. And the 0:16:33.960 --> 0:16:40.080 elk they captured I think nineteen or twenty calves in 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:46.240 the early decades of the d from the Olympic Peninsula. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.920 When I'm in my bedroom looking out of my bedroom window, 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.560 I'm looking at descend, I'm looking at the home range, 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.320 the former home range of the elk that now live 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:00.120 on a fog Neck. And they did two releases. One 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:02.320 of the releases was just calves. What you think would 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:04.159 have just gotten wiped. The fact that that worked is 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:08.000 mind boggling. Yeah, I can't. That just seems like, hey, 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.520 what's this old boss cow right without some boss cow 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:16.680 who's got some background and dealing with bears. Just surprising 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:18.280 that they could have lived. And it wasn't even many. 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.520 It was eight Roosevelt elk calves captured on the Olympic 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.960 Peninsula of Washington State. Nine and then they didn't even 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.119 caught him loose till twenty nine, So somehow kept the 0:17:27.160 --> 0:17:30.080 sons bitches alive for a year, turn them loose on 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.960 that hell whole. But the thing they had going for 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:40.960 him is a familiar terrain like dank, just dank wet is. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.080 The Olympic PENNSA is pretty steep too, is it. I 0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.399 mean it goes from sea level straight up through this 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.880 vicious it's viciously steep, viciously thick. Guys that can go, 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.919 you know, guys that can routinely go in there on 0:17:56.000 --> 0:18:02.400 public ground and kill Elk in Coles, the coastal Washington. Yeah, 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.520 it's like, I haven't done it once. I haven't. I 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:07.320 haven't even given it a shot. I haven't been there 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:09.040 that long and haven't really given it much. I haven't 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.600 given it any shot yet. But I've know enough to 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.359 know that a dude who can consistently fill it Elk 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:19.320 tag in coastal Washington on public ground is a hunter's hunter. 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:24.280 Bad mofo, Yeah, bad mo foe. That's consistently doing that. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.680 Jason Phelps, he cut his teeth on that. The game 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.920 call maker, Jason Phelps, that's his world, man. So the 0:18:29.960 --> 0:18:33.040 fact that like that him and his buddies like do 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:36.600 it is testament to It's just it's just like nothing 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:38.560 like you got up on some glass and tits like 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:40.800 spying on elk and then seeing over and getting them. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:42.920 You're just in there shaking hands with him for those 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.840 dudes like you know, the whole like sixty yard pin. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:48.600 It's like if you're getting shot, it's ten yards yeah, 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.560 top pin. Yeah you don't. You can't anyhow, So they 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.720 got these out from there, kidnapped him. I got a 0:18:55.800 --> 0:19:01.760 question later on me and maybe premature that was a chair. Um, 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.359 but did those the elk they got relocated to fog 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:08.959 Neck have have their size and like general demeanor paralleled 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.119 the native Olympia Olympic Peninsula elk. That's a great question. 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.879 I'm glad you asked it. Uh, Roosevelt elk are the 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:24.719 biggest of the elk a body size, So so you 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.399 have for elk man, let's turn into a tax on him. 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.959 The episode for elk from Hunting Perspective, Elker, elk all 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.080 got the same damn in name. But we break them up, 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:38.800 um uh, we break them up in a different classifications. 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:45.320 They're definitely not subspecies, but classifications Rocky Mountain totally Roosevelt. Yeah, 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:49.120 and I guess now I could live in like two places, 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.800 yeah well yeah, coastal California, the valley right, yeah well yeah, 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.200 from like Bishop to the coast. But and then there's 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:03.800 um that maybe they aren't around anymore, Manito Banilk, Manitoban elk, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.560 and they may have been larger than Roosevelt's but now 0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:09.280 currently in Roosevelt because what was the native elk of 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:13.560 like Michigan in Wisconsin. Probably, I don't probably Manitoban. I'm 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:16.520 not positive because those reintroduction efforts were all done with 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:19.400 Rocky Mountains. Yeah, I think that elk was probably it 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:23.400 was probably large. Was extrapated. Man a lot of like, yeah, 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:26.320 hear you on this fact checking, man, I am. You 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.679 can also like you can you can also throw in 0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:38.000 out freshwords that expensive. I really want to get my 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:45.760 new sand volleyball court lines out. So you got your 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.680 backlog down fact checking, honestly, just marriam elk. You could 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:54.040 also throw in their um Manitoban. As Remy said, eastern 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.760 elk Um, I'd had to dive a little bit farther 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:58.800 to see what they think is still alive or not 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.439 but the main species are the tool the rocky Mountain, 0:21:02.480 --> 0:21:06.159 and the Roosevelt. The Roosevelt or the largest bodied rocky 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:10.520 mountain are the largest antlers, and just in configuration in size, 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:13.320 I would say the tool oak or the smallest body 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.920 and their antlers grow more like a red deer, which 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.160 is a crowned effect at the tops. Just to get 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.680 a picture. Yeah, now, just to make just so people, 0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:24.680 just so listeners don't think we're dumb for not knowing 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:26.560 to all the answers here. A lot of the answers 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.879 are unresolved. For instance, for instance, of all the types 0:21:30.920 --> 0:21:34.000 of big horn sheep, there used to be an idea 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:37.240 that there was also the Audubon big horn. And the 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:41.200 Audubon big horn was an eastern Montana in the Dakota 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.360 bad Lands, Okay, and it had been shot out by 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.440 miners and killed out by the introduction of domestic sheep 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:51.960 and and through disease introductions from domestic sheep. Now there's 0:21:52.080 --> 0:21:57.560 questions of like is the audubon sheep, was it legitimately 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.040 its own sheep, or was it just a rocky mountain. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:05.480 So when you get in all this taxon taxonomic stuff, 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:09.080 it's like there used to be like a set of 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:12.800 understandings that is just getting that is getting eroded by 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.520 inputs of new information. Like for at a time, I 0:22:15.520 --> 0:22:18.800 think that people talked about thirty four types of cariboo 0:22:18.920 --> 0:22:21.919 or some crazy thing like that, and now that list 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:28.680 has been greatly reduced to now all caribou and reindeer 0:22:29.320 --> 0:22:33.080 of North America, Europe and Asia are not regarded as 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.880 the same species, different clades of the same species from 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:42.280 a genetic perspective. So where we are we Oh yeah, 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.280 So they take these caves and the Limpic peninsula, cut 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:47.000 them loose out there, and then they do another introduction 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.560 and eventually that herd on a fog neck gets built up. 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:52.760 You might go like, well, why would you go and 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.640 turn a bunch of animals that don't belong somewhere loose somewhere. 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:58.919 And that's a great question because it's a practice that 0:22:58.960 --> 0:23:03.600 we were engaged in very heavily in the early nineteen 0:23:03.680 --> 0:23:06.879 hundreds that were not engaged in now. You would never 0:23:07.320 --> 0:23:11.919 get the green light now to go and establish a 0:23:12.000 --> 0:23:16.919 population of elk on an island where they were not native, 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.040 because the fear would be that you were going to 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:23.920 upset a delicate ecological balance. But in the early nine 0:23:24.200 --> 0:23:28.800 hundreds and prior to that in other places, there was 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.480 just this idea that all animals should just be everywhere 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:37.160 that they that it would kind of work, particularly big 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:42.760 game animals. So on Kodiak they cut loose black tailed deer, 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.119 which you're not native there. They cut loose mountain goats, 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.159 which are not native there. They cut loose elk on 0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:52.680 neighboring a fog neck, which are not native there, as 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:56.359 well as as reindeer they call reindeer because they were 0:23:56.240 --> 0:24:01.120 a domestic herd that ended up just becoming fairal so caribou. 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:03.280 So you would never, like you would never in a 0:24:03.359 --> 0:24:05.240 million years get to go ahead to do that. Now. 0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:10.600 A lot of it too, yes, a lot of it too, 0:24:10.640 --> 0:24:14.399 I think has to do with the way if you 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:17.159 if you lived on Kodiak Island during this time when 0:24:17.160 --> 0:24:20.679 they introduce these animals, you're looking around, You're going, well, 0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:22.840 this is a land of plenty, but there's not a 0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:26.200 lot of red meat running around. There's bears, and there's fish, 0:24:26.320 --> 0:24:30.440 and there is no way to get food to Kodiak Island. 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:34.119 So everywhere else in Alaska you can set up a 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:35.879 settlement and you can go shoot a moose. You can 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:38.840 go shoot a but you're gonna get sick of eating 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.120 brown bear meat, I would imagine, So they release these 0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:46.480 sick from it. So they release these animals primarily as 0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:49.680 a food source to get people. They come and go, oh, yeah, 0:24:49.720 --> 0:24:51.480 I can live off the land here. I'll start a 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:54.240 settlement and I'll raise a family, and I'll do whatever, 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:58.560 and we'll make you're you're act like I'm making a 0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:02.920 value judgment. No, no, no, I'm just saying I'm just yeah, 0:25:02.920 --> 0:25:08.680 the rationale of like why then it was even thought of. Now, okay, 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:11.600 let me lay this one on you, because you're you're 0:25:11.640 --> 0:25:15.000 like you you you're at this point in news for 0:25:15.000 --> 0:25:18.080 for an American. You're an expert on New Zealand as 0:25:18.119 --> 0:25:22.320 far as Americans go, I'm not talking about Okay, New Zealand. 0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:25.520