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Speaker 1: Today's episode is part two in a series. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to the first part, Justine, go back. Listen

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Speaker 1: to that and I'll meet you back here for part two.

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Speaker 1: Remember when we did karaoke for my b day?

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Speaker 2: We never did karaoke on your first day.

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Speaker 1: Johnny, Yes, we did. You and I did a duet

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Speaker 1: Island's in the Stream.

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Speaker 3: Never.

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Speaker 1: And then we got into a fight on stage because

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Speaker 1: you wanted to do the Kenny Rogers part. So we're talking, John, Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I really enjoyed this conversation, that conversation.

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Speaker 3: I really enjoyed talking.

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Speaker 1: You didn't enjoy it at all. Talk again, really looking

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Speaker 1: forward to it. Oh well you wish me. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: like your way of telling me to drop dead. From

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Speaker 1: Gimblet Media, I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight Today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Steven right after the break.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Justine, can you hold on just one second? Okay, Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I lost the remote from my TV and so I

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Speaker 2: have to use my phone as a remote.

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Speaker 1: A phone is a remote. Brave new world we live in.

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Speaker 2: I know it's amazing, but.

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Speaker 1: We have more important things to talk about.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 1: So tell me what happened when we last spoke. Justine

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Speaker 1: and her mother had hatched a plan. They were going

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Speaker 1: to sit Justine's brother Stephen down so their mom could

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Speaker 1: tell him the truth that his dad, Gary wasn't actually

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Speaker 1: his biological father. Stephen is trying to save up money,

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Speaker 1: so he's currently living with their The idea was for

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Speaker 1: Justine to go over to the house and lend emotional

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Speaker 1: support while her mother came clean. But on the day

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Speaker 1: in question, she said, she.

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Speaker 2: Literally doesn't know what words she's going to say. She

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Speaker 2: doesn't know how she's going to form the sentence.

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Speaker 1: After being afraid for over thirty years. Her mother was

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Speaker 1: at a total loss about how to finally explain things

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Speaker 1: to Stephen. She was paralyzed, so Justine stepped up and

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Speaker 1: said she would tell Stephen the news. She'd tell him

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Speaker 1: the truth about his father. When Justine got to the house,

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Speaker 1: she sat down in the living room with Stephen and

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Speaker 1: her mom. Justine began by telling Stephen that when she

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Speaker 1: was a little kid, Gary had told her a secret

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Speaker 1: that he forbid her from telling anyone. Justine had always

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Speaker 1: felt like the secret she carried with her had created

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Speaker 1: a wall between her and Stephen, but now she was

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Speaker 1: ready to share that secret with him. How adopted am I?

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Speaker 1: Stephen asked, taking a half hearted stab at a joke.

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Speaker 1: Stephen has a tendency to laugh and joke around when

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Speaker 1: things get tense. It's something he calls the need to

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Speaker 1: joke to cope. He's been doing it since he was

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Speaker 1: a kid. It's something his family often finds inappropriate and

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Speaker 1: a little irritating. But today Justine made a point of

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Speaker 1: saying he was free to react any way he wanted.

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Speaker 1: He could make jokes or get angry or sad, whatever

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Speaker 1: he needed.

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Speaker 4: Was okay, I'm just like, okay, what's about to happen?

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Speaker 1: This is Stephen?

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Speaker 4: And then she just said dad is not your real dad.

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Speaker 1: As Justine spoke the words, Stephen's mouth broke into a

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Speaker 1: huge smile, but no jokes came out. Stephen's smile was

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Speaker 1: one of relief.

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Speaker 4: I had had all this pent up frustration with my father.

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Speaker 4: To find out that I wasn't actually related to him

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Speaker 4: made me feel better that way, as like, oh, so

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Speaker 4: I don't have to care about him anymore, you know,

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Speaker 4: I didn't have to feel guilty about that.

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Speaker 1: Throughout his life, Stephen had to deal with all of

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Speaker 1: Gary's bad parenting without the pluses that Justine received. Try

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Speaker 1: as hard as Stephen might to bond with his dad,

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Speaker 1: Gary remained emotionally remote. In fact, there were long periods

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Speaker 1: where Stephen and Gary didn't even speak. But despite the

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Speaker 1: years of bad blood, Stephen says he'd never actually suspected

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Speaker 1: Gary wasn't his father. That day when he first asked

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Speaker 1: Justine if he was adopted, he was just doing what

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Speaker 1: he always does, joking around.

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Speaker 4: Like what was the most off the wall thing that

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Speaker 4: I could guess that she was trying to keep from me?

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Speaker 4: And I was like, there's no way this is it, right?

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Speaker 4: And if she had his look on her face, and

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Speaker 4: I was just like, oh, I'm just kidding. My reality

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Speaker 4: was that Gary was my dad, right, and so really

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Speaker 4: didn't have any reason to question that at all.

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Speaker 1: After discovering his true paternity, Stephen decided not to confront

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Speaker 1: Gary because it seems that after all the years of

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Speaker 1: pretending to be on death's door, this time Gary really

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Speaker 1: was dying, and along with his failing physical health, his

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Speaker 1: mind was also deteriorating. Recently, Gary's wife let him know

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Speaker 1: that the secret about Stephen was out, but it didn't

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Speaker 1: throw Gary into a rage. In fact, he didn't react

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Speaker 1: much at all. The secret that dictated a family's every

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Speaker 1: move for decades was now something Gary was too ill

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Speaker 1: to even hold on to. In the weeks after learning

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Speaker 1: the truth, Stephen kept ruminating and his initial feeling of

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Speaker 1: relief grew more complicated.

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Speaker 4: No, I felt, I don't want to say lost, because

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Speaker 4: I feel like that's potentially cliche. Couldn't really focus at work.

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Speaker 4: I just couldn't really get it out of my head.

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Speaker 4: One thing I kept on telling myself was that it

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Speaker 4: doesn't change anything. It's like I was still raised the

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Speaker 4: way I was, But then I at the same time,

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Speaker 4: it changes everything right as I got I'm thirty three

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Speaker 4: years old and I'm just now finding this out. It's

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Speaker 4: like having a reality just crushed.

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Speaker 1: Stephen began spending a lot of time on Facebook. Facebook

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Speaker 1: is where he found his biological father, Brian Kirby. From there,

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Speaker 1: he discovered the profiles of Brian's children, Steven's half siblings.

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Speaker 1: Stephen would click through, looking at each of their photos

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Speaker 1: over and over.

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Speaker 4: I'd look at it constantly. But it was around Thanksgiving

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Speaker 4: where things kind of just came to head. I just

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Speaker 4: really felt sad. I felt depressed. We were supposed to

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Speaker 4: go as a family over to my Grandma Jones' house,

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Speaker 4: and I just kind of told my mom, it's like

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Speaker 4: I can't because I was just thinking, like, it's there's

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Speaker 4: something missing, you know, what is what is the holidays

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Speaker 4: to the Kirby's, What are your Thanksgivings?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 1: So Stephen went down to the basement, put on his

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Speaker 1: headphones and started playing a favorite song of his by

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Speaker 1: a band called Liars. Stephen likes listening to it when

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Speaker 1: he's trying or writing. Then he chose a half sister

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Speaker 1: to message on Facebook.

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Speaker 4: She had a smile that just maybe reminded me of

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Speaker 4: my own smile. So I wrote her a letter just

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Speaker 4: kind of explaining who I was, with the hopes that

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Speaker 4: this one had come across as some Arabian prints that

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Speaker 4: has millions of dollars. But I can't get to it now.

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Speaker 4: So send me this and then I'll send you that.

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Speaker 1: What was it that you that you wrote?

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Speaker 4: Well? I could, I mean like I could pull it

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Speaker 4: up and read it, but honestly, I am god awful

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Speaker 4: at reading out loud. Let me find it real quick.

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Speaker 4: I've been struggling to figure out how to approach this.

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Speaker 4: So here I go. All my life, I've never been

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Speaker 4: able to relate or connect with my dad. I felt

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Speaker 4: different than him in so many ways and never knew why.

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Speaker 4: Within the last six months, I discovered that my dad

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Speaker 4: quote unquote, is not my father.

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Speaker 1: Steven starts the message by offering up all the names

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Speaker 1: and dates he can anything to prove he's not a scammer.

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Speaker 4: And I can't help but wonder what your life's like,

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Speaker 4: what are your hobbies? Who broke your heart? Who do

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Speaker 4: you love? Dang it? Sorry, try not to cry. Oh,

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Speaker 4: the choice is yours. I know this is a lot,

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Speaker 4: and I don't know if you know about me, but

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Speaker 4: I'd rather try to reach out than live a life

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Speaker 4: of regret. I would love to meet you, slash hear

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Speaker 4: from you, but I unfortunately understand that may take time.

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Speaker 4: I don't want anything except to know you. I am happy,

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Speaker 4: I love a good life. I have a great job.

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Speaker 4: I am talented, I am artistic slash musical. I love

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Speaker 4: my family. I will be here, hoping and dreaming of

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Speaker 4: hearing from you until I do.

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Speaker 5: Our.

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Speaker 1: After Steven sent his message, Kirby started coming out of

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Speaker 1: the woodwork. In total, he had six new siblings and

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Speaker 1: he exchanged messages with several of them. Stephen spent a

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Speaker 1: particularly long time messaging with a sister named Shannon, who

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Speaker 1: became a sort of point person for the family. Stephen

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Speaker 1: asked if Brian, his biological father, had heard what was

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Speaker 1: going on.

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Speaker 4: And she said, he's actually right here, and then there

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Speaker 4: was a pause. She messaged back and said, he wants

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Speaker 4: to know if you if you want to meet I

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Speaker 4: was like, I was trying to hold back because all

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Speaker 4: I wanted to be like was all caps, like yes,

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Speaker 4: exclamation marks right, And I was like, that would be good.

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Speaker 1: Shannon suggests that she and Stephen meet up after the holidays,

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Speaker 1: and so in early February, they make a plan to

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Speaker 1: get a drink at a bar where Shannon used to work,

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Speaker 1: and the lead up to meeting Shannon and Stephen worries

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Speaker 1: he gets uncomfortable in social situations and has trouble maintaining

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Speaker 1: eye contact. What if he's too awkward? What if they

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Speaker 1: have nothing to talk about. When the night arrives, Stephen

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Speaker 1: don's jeans and a plaid shirt and heads to the

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Speaker 1: bar where Shannon and he drink beer. They talk about

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Speaker 1: jeeps and trucks, about how they have the same round cheeks.

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Speaker 1: As the evening progresses, Shannon shares details about their father.

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Speaker 1: She tells Stephen how Brian never learned to swim, how

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Speaker 1: he's funny and warm, how he's her best friend. Shannon

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Speaker 1: also says that when she was growing up, Brian would

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Speaker 1: sometimes get drunk and talk about the child he never met.

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Speaker 1: It turns out that a month before Brian got Stephen's

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Speaker 1: mother pregnant, he'd gotten someone else pregnant, the woman he'd

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Speaker 1: eventually marry, Shannon's mom. Shannon is only a month older

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Speaker 1: than Stephen, even though they're the same age. Throughout the evening,

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Speaker 1: they each try to play the role of the older sibling.

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Speaker 1: Stephen orders breadsticks to ensure Shannon is eating something, and

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Speaker 1: Shannon refills Stephen's water glass to make sure he'll be

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Speaker 1: okay to drive. In this way, they take care of

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Speaker 1: each other. After that night, Shannon begins working on a

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Speaker 1: plan for Brian and Stephen to meet, and Stephen says

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Speaker 1: he'll update me when a plan is set, but then

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Speaker 1: months pass and I don't hear anything. Finally, on the

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Speaker 1: first of April twenty twenty, a little over a year

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Speaker 1: after this whole thing started, Justine sends me an email

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Speaker 1: that reads, we need to talk.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so a couple of things. I went, let's thank

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Speaker 6: you on.

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Speaker 1: So Stephen and his biological father still haven't met, but

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Speaker 1: Justine tells me that Stephen is about to meet the

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Speaker 1: rest of the Kirby siblings, all of them and all

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Speaker 1: at once. But it won't be over dinner or drinks.

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Speaker 6: They are all going to scirch for his biological dad,

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Speaker 6: who went missing a couple days ago. Whoa, and it's

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Speaker 6: like not looking good.

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Speaker 1: The Indiana State Police put out a missing person's alert

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Speaker 1: the day before, stating that Brian Kirby was last seen

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Speaker 1: wearing a gray sweatshirt with Tennessee printed in white letters

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Speaker 1: and blue jeans. He has blue eyes and red hair.

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Speaker 1: He is believed to be in danger and may require

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Speaker 1: medical assistance. Neither the alert nor any of the news

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Speaker 1: coverage offers an explanation for Brian Kirby's disappearance, but Justine

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Speaker 1: heard through the grapevine that Brian had been out with

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Speaker 1: a friend and the friend's girlfriend and that things turned violent.

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Speaker 6: There was some kind of a dispute and I don't know.

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Speaker 6: At first. The girlfriend said that her boyfriend came back

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Speaker 6: home and like she had to change his clothes, that

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Speaker 6: his shirt was bloody. Then a couple days later she

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Speaker 6: changed that story and said it was muddy.

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Speaker 1: Stephen and Brian were supposed to meet a few weeks earlier,

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Speaker 1: but Brian has lung disease, and when COVID hit, Stephen

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Speaker 1: worried that it might be better to postpone. So now

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Speaker 1: Stephen is heading out in the height of a pandemic

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Speaker 1: with siblings who are strangers to him, to help search

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Speaker 1: for the missing father he never got to meet locally.

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Speaker 1: Now this he is waged three news. The Kirby siblings

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Speaker 1: never find their father, but the police do.

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Speaker 4: A murder mystery over tonight after a Jennings County man's

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Speaker 4: body was found burned with his remains scattered in different

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Speaker 4: parts of the county.

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Speaker 1: In May of twenty twenty, the police arrest a man

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Speaker 1: named Alan Morantos, who pleads guilty to the murder, loading

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Speaker 1: the body in the vehicle, burning the body at another location,

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Speaker 1: and then discarding.

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Speaker 7: The remains in very spots around the county.

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Speaker 1: Brentos James kind of jails. Steven stops going to work

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Speaker 1: for weeks. He just crashes with his new sister Deanna.

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Speaker 1: Although they just met, she lets him sleep on her

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Speaker 1: cow in the trailer she shares with her two kids.

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Speaker 1: In Brian's obituary, Stephen is listed among his children. I

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Speaker 1: reach out to Stephen, but don't hear back. Justine tells

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Speaker 1: me that Stephen's been depressed, that he's not ready to

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Speaker 1: talk about Brian's death. When I think back to Stephen's

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Speaker 1: vulnerability and enthusiasm around meeting Brian, it's easy to understand why.

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Speaker 1: And then several months later, Justine writes with more news.

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Speaker 1: After a long stay in hospice, her father Gary died.

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Speaker 1: She says she was grateful to be with him when

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Speaker 1: it happened.

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Speaker 4: So this is your daddy. We again to the real

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Speaker 4: end of this stape. I love him more than anything

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Speaker 4: in my life.

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Speaker 8: Take care.

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Speaker 3: Mike.

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Speaker 6: Hello, you have reached Justine's voice fan. Leave a message.

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Speaker 6: Oh and tell me what is something that you are

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Speaker 6: really good at?

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Speaker 1: I Hey, Justine, it's Jonathan uh And I guess I'm

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Speaker 1: really good at keeping in touch over the years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.

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Speaker 2: I hope.

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Speaker 1: At this point, it's been over two years since Justine

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Speaker 1: and I first spoke. In a year since Brian was murdered.

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Speaker 1: When Justine and I connect, she tells me that in

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Speaker 1: recent months, she's been worrying that her decision to reveal

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Speaker 1: Stephen's paternity was a bad decision.

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Speaker 7: I think, like I'm still at a point where I

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Speaker 7: feel part of me a little guilty for like, this

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Speaker 7: sounds so silly that for telling the secret that I

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Speaker 7: wasn't ever supposed to tell.

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Speaker 1: You know, and you mean guilty toward to your.

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Speaker 7: Father, I guess so, or even like even towards it

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Speaker 7: doesn't make sense. I know it was the right thing

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Speaker 7: to do, but it's hard for me to say that

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Speaker 7: like that it was a good that I feel good about.

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Speaker 7: I don't know. Maybe part of me feels guilty that

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Speaker 7: I held it.

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Speaker 9: In so long.

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Speaker 4: Maybe that's what it is.

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Speaker 7: I think I'm just not fully I haven't fully processed

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Speaker 7: it to the point where I feel like I did

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Speaker 7: a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Justine is left wondering what telling Stephen actually accomplished. There

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Speaker 1: was a wall between them before telling him the truth,

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Speaker 1: and now there was still a wall, and because of her,

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Speaker 1: Stephen's grief was doubled. He was forced to live through

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Speaker 1: the death of not one but two fathers all in

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Speaker 1: the space of less than a year. Stephen has been distant,

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Speaker 1: pulling away, and Justine fears he might be angry with her, like.

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Speaker 7: Things just haven't been the same with us, and.

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Speaker 9: I don't I don't know.

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Speaker 1: If that's because of.

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Speaker 7: The situation with me telling him or maybe I just

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Speaker 7: maybe at some point I need to hear it from him.

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Speaker 7: You know that it was a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It's a hard question to ask someone. Was my crushing

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Speaker 1: your reality a good thing? But after the break, Justine

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Speaker 1: tries to ask Stephen.

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Speaker 3: Just that.

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Speaker 9: We had my son Griffin's third birthday party.

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Speaker 1: Today's the day Justine and Stephen are set to talk,

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Speaker 1: and Justine joins the zoom first.

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Speaker 9: This is the best age for presents, he like. After

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Speaker 9: the day's ever, he was like, Mom, I love presence,

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Speaker 9: just like.

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Speaker 1: In the close to two years since that day in

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Speaker 1: their mom's living room when Justine told Stephen the truth,

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Speaker 1: the two of them have never sat down for a

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Speaker 1: heart to heart. Stephen and Justine have both recently moved

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Speaker 1: and are living farther apart than they ever have. Justine

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Speaker 1: in Illinois, Stephen in Arkansas.

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Speaker 4: Hello, howdy.

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Speaker 1: Steven's been alone in the small rural town for a

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Speaker 1: few months. Now he's down there fixing up their grandmother's cabin,

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Speaker 1: and his red hair and beard have grown shaggy. He

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Speaker 1: joins the zoom from a couch a quaint curtain behind him.

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Speaker 1: Are there grandmotherly type things in the back? It looks

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Speaker 1: like there's some little chatchkiz.

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Speaker 4: What are some Betty Boop figurines? She's much to collect things.

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Speaker 1: Before the call, Justine told me she was feeling nervous.

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Speaker 1: So I take it upon myself to get the ball rolling.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that I talked about with Justine

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Speaker 1: was whether her telling you, But then I stopped myself.

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Speaker 1: After years of having their relationship middlemanned by parents by secrets,

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Speaker 1: maybe Stephen and Justine need a chance to talk to

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Speaker 1: one another directly. Well, maybe I should, I should allow

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Speaker 1: just justin. Maybe like you should just you should just ask.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why. It's making me feel emotional, but

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Speaker 3: you know, I guess I.

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Speaker 9: Never thought to ask you, like directly, Like, uh, do

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Speaker 9: you think it was a good thing that that the

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Speaker 9: truth came out? I guess that I I guess that

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Speaker 9: I told you you know about that?

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Speaker 1: Well, Justine wipes her eyes. Stephen tries to offer an

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Speaker 1: answer by way of a story. It seems that a

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Speaker 1: few months after Brian's murder, Steven set off on a

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Speaker 1: trip to Kentucky to meet Brian's brother Barry. They ended

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Speaker 1: up spending the day together. Stephen helped Barry feed his cats,

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Speaker 1: and Barry took Stephen around to some Kirby family landmarks

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Speaker 1: in the area. Then they sat down to eat together

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Speaker 1: with some cousins, young nieces and nephews.

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Speaker 4: And then that afternoon where we went outside and we

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Speaker 4: were sitting out there, and then Barry came out and

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Speaker 4: he said called ambulance. You could just barely understand what

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Speaker 4: he was saying because he had just started coughing up blood.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I mean like it was. It was

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Speaker 4: splashing on a driveway.

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Speaker 1: As it turns out, two weeks earlier, Barry had been

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Speaker 1: in a car crash. He was while being examined at

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Speaker 1: the hospital that Barry learned he had undiagnosed lung cancer.

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Speaker 1: That's how he came to be coughing up blood on

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Speaker 1: the driveway that day.

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Speaker 4: And the first thing that I thought of was the kids.

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Speaker 4: I told the kids. As I get in a four wheeler,

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Speaker 4: and I need you to drive down the driveway and

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Speaker 4: then go up that trail and I'll be right there,

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Speaker 4: because I didn't want them to see that. And I

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Speaker 4: remember me walking down on a hill to go meet

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Speaker 4: up with the kids, and I looked back at Barry

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Speaker 4: and he was just looking at me with big eyes.

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Speaker 4: I just kind of nodded my head because we all

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Speaker 4: knew that that was the end.

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Speaker 1: By the time Stephen comforted the kids and walked back

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Speaker 1: to the house, Barry was dead.

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Speaker 4: The way I always like to tell it, because I

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Speaker 4: try to look on the bright side, is said it

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Speaker 4: was a beautiful day for Barry. It was his last

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Speaker 4: day on earth, and he got to visit his grandma's house,

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Speaker 4: his great grandma's house in the family cemetery.

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Speaker 1: This story about Uncle Barry doesn't feel like the reassurance

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Speaker 1: Justine had been hoping for. In fact, it feels like

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Speaker 1: the opposite. Yet another blood relative was gone no sooner

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Speaker 1: than Steven had learned about him.

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Speaker 9: I mean, I cannot understand what it feels like to

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Speaker 9: discover one father, lose him horrifically, meet a new uncle,

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Speaker 9: lose him horrifically, basically in front of your eyes.

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Speaker 1: You know, to hear the fact of you know, what

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Speaker 1: you went through, A lot of people would say, man

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Speaker 1: like that, not to cause offense or any of it.

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Speaker 1: That guy's pretty unlucky.

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Speaker 4: No, one hundred percent. I know that that's got to

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Speaker 4: be everybody's response. But it's all the things that happened,

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Speaker 4: We're going to happen regardless of whether I was there

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Speaker 4: or not. And it's a sad story, but same times, like,

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Speaker 4: there's so many good things that come out of it,

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Speaker 4: you know, as far as me being.

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Speaker 1: There, Stephen was able to be a comfort to the

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Speaker 1: kids and give Barry a great last day that makes

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Speaker 1: him proud.

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Speaker 4: And the fact of the timing of Brian being murdered,

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Speaker 4: it's if you can find it positive in that, it's

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Speaker 4: that it brought me and my sister brothers and sisters

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Speaker 4: on a curby side closer together a whole lot faster

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Speaker 4: than what have ever happened before.

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Speaker 1: Stephen looks over at Justine and directly addresses the question

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Speaker 1: of whether learning the truth was a good thing.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. No, I want to change. There's a lot of

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Speaker 4: things I would change, but I don't regret it. I

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Speaker 4: should have known and I one of my biggest fears

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Speaker 4: always you or mom, the feeling bad or regret or

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Speaker 4: sorry for me, or like, man, we really shouldn't have

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Speaker 4: told him. And really it was the greatest thing to

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Speaker 4: ever It's difficult to say, but it's the greatest thing

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Speaker 4: that's ever happened to me. I've always felt kind of

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Speaker 4: like a free spirit in a way, but really kind

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Speaker 4: of holding myself backward about how what other people would think.

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Speaker 4: I didn't necessarily realize how lost I was as an

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Speaker 4: individual until I was able to meet and connect with

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Speaker 4: the Kirbys. We're all really similar in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 4: and a lot of those ways I used to really

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Speaker 4: kind of fight and feel like I wasn't supposed to

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Speaker 4: be like that because my mom's not like that, Dad's

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Speaker 4: not like that, Justine's not like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, Stephen struggled in school. Justine excelled, attending a gifted

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Speaker 1: program and eventually becoming a teacher. Doing well in school

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Speaker 1: so you can go to college, so you can start

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Speaker 1: a career that becomes your life. Stephen tried to do

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Speaker 1: those things because Justine and his mom had. He wanted

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Speaker 1: to please them, be like them, but he always felt

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Speaker 1: like he was falling short with the Kirbys, Stephen saw

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Speaker 1: a different way to live than the one he'd grown

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Speaker 1: up with. Life was more improvisational. For instance, one night,

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Speaker 1: when Stephen went out drinking with his sister Shannon and

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Speaker 1: her friends, they got too drunk to drive home and

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Speaker 1: ended up crashing at a friend's nearby hotel room. In

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. Shannon got out of bed

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00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: and went out for a smoke, but she forgot to

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Speaker 1: take along a room key, and she forgot to wear pants,

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Speaker 1: so she appeared at the front desk demanding to be

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Speaker 1: led into a room that she had no business being in,

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Speaker 1: all while not wearing pants. The whole gang was kicked out,

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Speaker 1: but it wasn't the end of the world. In fact,

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Speaker 1: Stephen thought it was pretty fun. His new family is

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00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: warm and huggy. They say I love you a lot.

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00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: When Stephen feared he might be intruding on Shannon's life

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00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 1: by texting too often, she told him, you will never

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00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: be a bother.

440
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 4: They really have changed me. And it's like I've told

441
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 4: the Kirby's, Do you guys help me make sense? The

442
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 4: way I've lived this last year is the night and

443
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 4: day compared to what I have in the past as

444
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: far as just kind of there's really kind of going

445
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 4: for a lot of stuff and living for metaphorically for

446
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 4: the first time in my life.

447
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,000
Speaker 1: Stephen says he's always wanted to travel, to just get

448
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: in a car and drive. He remembers countless conversations with

449
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: Justine where she'd encourage him to go.

450
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 4: We've talked about it over and over again.

451
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 9: Yeah, I remember so vividly, like Stephen coming to my

452
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 9: house and we're on the couch and he's just like,

453
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,320
Speaker 9: I have this urge, like I just want to go somewhere.

454
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 9: And I'm like, okay, so just do that. You know

455
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 9: what's stopping me? And he's like, well, what's mom going

456
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 9: to think? Or who's going to watch the dog or whatever.

457
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 9: I'm like, I'll watch the dog. Mom will be a fine,

458
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 9: you know, Like he and even in my mind I knew,

459
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 9: like he's probably not going to go.

460
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: But about a month after Barry's death. In two months

461
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: after Brian's Stephen jumped in his car in Indianapolis and

462
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 1: just started heading west the Badlands Glacier National Park, Washington State,

463
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: all the way to the Canadian border. On the road,

464
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: he slept in a hammock bathed in the river, fried

465
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: up spam and eggs at rest stops, and saw the

466
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 1: Pacific Ocean for the very first time.

467
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 4: I had Barry and Brian looking over me, and honestly

468
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,640
Speaker 4: all the time I really kind of felt felt their presence.

469
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 4: I just kind of drove, just said either felt right

470
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 4: or didn't feel right, and for Nettville right will then

471
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: take a left turn instead of a right term. You know,

472
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 4: It's like in those moments, which I had so many

473
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 4: on that trip, It's like, what have I been doing

474
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 4: for the past thirty three years when I could have

475
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 4: been doing this?

476
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 9: You know, the Stephen that I am talking to today

477
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 9: is like the real Stephen that was always inside like

478
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 9: wanting to get out, But like, hey guys, is this okay?

479
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: No?

480
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 9: Okay? So I like it's obvious to me that this

481
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 9: other side of the family is his has like completed

482
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 9: him in a way.

483
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: So to Justine's question, it seems clear that she did

484
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 1: do the right thing. Stephen thinks back on that day,

485
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: Justine told him the truth, how she gave him the

486
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: permission to react however he wanted, be it with sadness

487
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: or anger or even by joking around. It was all Okay,

488
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: Stephen could just be Stephen.

489
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,320
Speaker 4: And I've never felt like that's right until that moment.

490
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: It meant a lot. It made me feel if you

491
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: were really good and accepted. There's nobody, nobody else on

492
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 4: this planet that I would have wanted to tell me

493
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: the news than you.

494
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 3: It was amazing to hear you say that you wouldn't

495
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: have wanted it to be anyone other than me. It

496
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 3: makes me feel really special. I'm really close to you,

497
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 3: and it makes me feel like it was right.

498
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: The secret that had become a wall between Justine and

499
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,880
Speaker 1: Stephen was coming down. They didn't share the same father,

500
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: but they shared the same fact. Finally there was reality

501
00:29:37,760 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: and it wasn't crushing either of them.

502
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 10: O cans ok, I canais be found.

503
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 5: I canlis be found.

504
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 8: Now that the Fernditures rip turning to its good will home,

505
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 8: now that the last month's rent is skating with the damage,

506
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 8: POS take this moment to dissolve, if we meant it.

507
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 10: If we turn.

508
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 8: Remember felt around for five to.

509
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: From things that leaves. This episode of Heavyweight was produced

510
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: by Senior producer Khalila Holt, along with Stevie Lane, Moheeny mcgauker,

511
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: and me Jonathan Goldstein Special thanks to Emily Condon, Jorge

512
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: just Alex Bloomberg, Sharon Mashihi, Connie Walker, and Jackie Cohen.

513
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: News footage courtesy of Gray Media Group, Incorporated and Wave

514
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,800
Speaker 1: three News. Bobby Lord mixed the episode with original music

515
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: by Christine Fellows, John K. Samson, and Bobby Lord. The

516
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: song Stephen listens to in the episode is the Other

517
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 1: Side of Mount heart Attack by Liars. Additional music credits

518
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: can be found on our website Gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.

519
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by the Weaker Thands courtesy of

520
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: Epitaph Records. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight. We're always

521
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: looking for stories, so send us an email at Heavyweight

522
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 1: at gimletmedia dot com. We'll be off for the next

523
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: two weeks as we finish another two part episode, so

524
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 1: we'll be back November eighteenth.

525
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 2: The bott