WEBVTT - #538 Jason Flom with Kendrick Gillum 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:06.560 On February first, nineteen ninety seven, in West Memphis, Arkansas, 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.920 a young man named Charles Newsom was fatally shot in 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:15.080 his car. According to some witnesses, Charles was with two 0:00:15.200 --> 0:00:18.520 others in his car, but only one was ever identified. 0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:26.720 Frederick Tyrone Ellis. Ellis gave inconsistent accounts about the number, location, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.880 and identities of the assailants, eventually fixing the narrative on 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.640 first four and then three men from a rival neighborhood, 0:00:35.040 --> 0:00:39.559 Antonio Williams, DeMarco Wilson and Kendrick Gillham, who he placed 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:44.400 outside the vehicle for the shooting. However, the ballistics and 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:55.280 physical evidence say something different. This is wrathful Conviction. You're 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.080 listening to wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:00.800 all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.520 ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:15.000 Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wronful Conviction, where we're going 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.840 to return to West Memphis, Arkansas. Yes, the home of 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:22.119 the West Memphis three, one of whom Jason Baldwin first 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.720 told our colleague Maggie Freeling about the case we're going 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.000 to be covering today and we're going to link that 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.920 episode of unjustin Unsolved in the episode description. In this 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.160 case involves the same local legal system, as well as 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.720 three co defendants, one of whom Kendrick Gillham, is calling 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:43.360 in from an Arkansas prison. Ken, thanks for joining us, 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.640 Thank you, you're welcome. Now a second former guest, Marty Tankliffe. 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.280 It was his efforts through the making an ex reclass 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.520 at Georgetown University with Professor Mark Howard that led a 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.920 group of students to reinvestigate the case for Ken. And 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.600 we're joined by one of those former students who is 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:04.360 currently seeking her master's in investigative journalism, Claudia Mendeweta. 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:06.280 Welcome, thank you for having me. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.160 So let's start with Ken's life growing up in this 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:13.280 small and notorious city of only about twenty five thousand 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.200 people on the west side of the Mississippi River from Memphis, Tennessee, 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:19.079 called West Memphis. 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.360 My mom she haed me two that twenty fourth, nineteen 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.040 seventy one. You know, I had a pretty normal childhood. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.720 You know, my mom, she took good care of me 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:30.800 and my brothers. We come from a big family and 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.480 all of us was closer the neighborhood because I said, 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:36.520 like from five years old, we would always get together 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:39.399 on the weekends, all as the summer the school was out. 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:44.040 We was always somewhere on the bikes together, played football, basketball, 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.120 collecting knes it's, cutting yards together. We had a little 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.520 long services, we hated, you know, we gave some money 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.800 in our pockets, and you know, we all just grew 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.280 up together. You know, we were basically always there for 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:54.720 each other. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.720 This group of family and friends lived in the Foxwood 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:01.400 area of West Memphis and then was a rival neighborhood 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.400 group from about a mile and a half away on 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:07.480 Eighteenth Street, and Foxwood continued to stick together as the 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:13.040 kids became teens and as problems became more complicated as 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:14.960 they were introduced to the drug trade. 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:17.800 I said, part of the started, I said about ninth grade. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.240 You know, we started hanging out, chasing girls, drinking girl 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.120 not doing my mom's see. And then like like sixteen, 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:26.720 I was really like I was just full plays one 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.080 of the streets and I had a partner that I 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:32.200 used to run with and he'd be setting drugs all 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.239 night and I'd just be running around with him. And 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:39.320 I was like seventeen when I first got shot. Oh yeah, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.400 I was like seventeen when I first got shot, So 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:44.600 I've been shot three other times. The front, it went 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.120 through my tophicals and it came by my shoulders, and 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:49.200 then I was shot in the stomach and it came 0:03:49.240 --> 0:03:51.480 out my bank. No time I was shot in the 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.400 league in the upper part, almost by my balls. And 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.840 the last time did they take this? Watch the eighteenth 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.640 Street dudes shoot up where I was at. They came 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:04.240 through three car fee and he watched him shoot it 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.960 us and then he pulled up and shot me. And 0:04:08.120 --> 0:04:11.120 he shot my home boy two mo pans, which added 0:04:11.160 --> 0:04:13.320 to the eleven hands that he was already shot. 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.560 Detective Brian Ridge, who's also a big character in the 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.560 West Memphis three, shot his friend. His friend is kind 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.200 of on the side of the road. Ken is trying 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:23.520 to take him to the hospital and then he shoots 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.520 Kin so he can't help him. 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:27.840 Laying on the float bleeding and the police got a 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:30.640 gun to my head. They shot my mama house up 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:34.800 to right around the corner. He wants three cars with 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:39.360 its cas shoot up his house and he didn't pursuit him. 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.360 It seems like Detective Brian Ridge and potentially others were 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:45.880 at the very least turning a blind eye to the 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:47.320 Eighteenth Street guys. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:49.240 I didn't get any evidence to this, but it was 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.960 something that everyone told me when I was in West Memphis, 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:55.520 like the people in the A. Treen Street group were 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.440 working with the police to sell drugs. One woman sat 0:04:58.440 --> 0:04:59.760 down at me and she was like, how do you 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:01.800 think drugs get into West Memphis? Like we don't have 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.200 a port. Police will do a drug bust, and you 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:08.240 think they're throwing those drugs away, they're not. They're putting 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:09.480 them right back in circulation. 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.120 The girl I was going with but I had the 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:16.039 kids buy they pulled upon her brother over at the 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.640 gas station one day and he was saying that they 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:20.880 pulled up on him and said, Hey, you need to 0:05:20.880 --> 0:05:23.880 go talk to Kendrick. We got something for you, and 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:26.320 y'all ain't got to worry about us twin now, as 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.560 long as y'all keep you down over there, y'all ain't 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.080 got to worry about us the rest nobody. But if 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:34.280 you don't, we'll be to see you. So what happened 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.920 was he came told me and I refused to say 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:37.520 a dope. 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:40.200 On him, and it appears that perhaps one of the 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:44.080 more prominent Eighteenth Street guys, Terrence Robinson, may have taken 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.640 this deal while Foxwood suffered the consequences. 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:50.839 The girl I was going with her brother, they gave 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:53.320 him the datment. They got my brother on the diapers, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:57.000 They got Chuck Kirkwood, they got my whole neighborhood on 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:58.920 the diapers. The all the walk probably was left that 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.520 didn't get in the diaper with me almoose. 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:06.920 So Terrence Robinson, he's the person who, like we said, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:09.760 so drugs with the police. He had a cousin called 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:13.400 Daryl Robertson. Darryl gets shot and that's what they try 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.040 to put on Ken, but that fails. 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.480 He gird order. He got to go write their statement 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:23.719 on me was lyons in kis who had to drop 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.960 the jobs. The one was investigated, the same one they 0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:29.359 shot me, Brian Reid. 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.000 And with the context of this unholy alliance between the 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.599 police and Foxwood rivals on Eighteenth Street, tensions flared further 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:40.800 over a dice game in nineteen ninety six involving Ken's 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:44.760 friend Chuck and Terrence Robinson, who was with James Newsom, 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:47.159 the cousin of the victim in this case. 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.640 They had a nice game going on in the neighborhood, 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:54.000 Dames Gruesom and Terrence Robinson style Shuton guys Woodhelm. Anyway, 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.480 chue k b Terrence Alley's money, so Chump took off 0:06:57.480 --> 0:07:01.400 the Wolkin. They pulled up Scot out the car and 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.039 hit truck in the face and tried to go on 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.880 his pockets and take it money. So this when the 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.280 fighter started. And after that we ended up seeing them 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.600 at the skating ring. We was going to the back 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.720 and they was coming away from the bank, and we 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:19.840 all got to fight New and answered the first justice, 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:20.440 Sire New. 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.160 And this kicked off a series of incidents of retaliatory 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:29.240 gun violence leading up to the incident in question on 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.880 February first, nineteen ninety seven, which occurred at nine hundred 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:37.120 West McCauley Drive, the Mayfair Apartment complex, which unfortunately was 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.840 no stranger to gunfights, and with this ongoing feud between 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.600 eighteenth Street and Foxwood, the likely assumption was that someone 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.679 from Foxwood was involved in the shooting. Now, the victim 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:50.440 in this case, Charles Newsom, lived there with his parents, 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.760 and according to some witnesses, Charles left home with Terrence 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.040 Robinson and Frederick Tyrone. 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:59.800 Ellis Caroli said that he was old Charles Newson house 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.160 in phil Paul. That's waiting on Charle to take a 0:08:02.240 --> 0:08:04.080 shot down and take a bail, and there was the 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.200 only way to minches. They walked into the car and 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.760 they drove pay us by the manager's office and he 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:12.880 said that he's seen four people out there and they 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.680 began shoot this out of the car. 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:17.360 No one is very certain about how many shots were 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.080 fired or when the shot hit, but it was basically 0:08:20.080 --> 0:08:22.480 a shootout happening. Someone took their hand out of the 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.280 windows started shooting back barely. 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.920 Said that Chaul made a right old McCarley and he 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.800 hit another car and he said chall that he couldn't breathe, 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.680 and so ca Ronald said that he scowed it over. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:36.760 It stuck his leg onder the hands field up and 0:08:36.800 --> 0:08:39.200 he drove from the passenger side all the way back 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:41.280 round to the front of the building where he went 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:42.120 and can't help it. 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:45.439 So the cops arrived and according to some witness says, 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:48.720 Terrence Robinson should have been with Ellis to give an account, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:53.040 but no account has ever been found. Now. Initially Ellis 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.400 had said that three or four black males who he 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:59.719 couldn't identify, were shooting from the passenger's side, and that 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.679 when Charles was hit, he reached his foot over to 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:03.840 hit the gas to try to flee. But according to 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.280 a document that was just recently found, the body was 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.559 discovered in a position that really doesn't match his story. 0:09:12.080 --> 0:09:14.760 We've gotten various accounts of how the body was found, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:20.480 but never this one that Charles Newsom was basically turned 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:24.160 back and he was lunged over the driver's seat. 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:28.520 One week with she Seed, somebody had opened the door 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:31.440 and looked at his car, so it was cussin and 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:33.240 he jumped back in the car and. 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:36.520 Drove around the bend, which makes you think that whoever 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.360 drove the car out of there made room for himself 0:09:39.400 --> 0:09:42.800 by pushing Charles over the seat, or perhaps Charles had 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.560 even lunged back there, since the shot may well have 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:49.439 come from inside the car, But unfortunately the state of 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:53.760 the physical evidence hasn't made anything clearer. It appears, in fact, 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:58.280 that Charles Dusom's car had been involved in previous shootouts 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.800 and plenty of damage to the out side of the car. 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.800 Two bullets were pulled from the car ceiling that aren't 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.959 part of the record in this case, as well as 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.400 two bullet holes the police claimed had penetrated the interior 0:10:09.840 --> 0:10:12.679 and were related to this particular shooting. Now, how did 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:15.360 they know that, We don't know. We have no idea. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:18.680 But maybe they said that because Charles Newsom was only 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:22.240 shot twice, once in the right forearm and once in 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:23.200 the right upper back. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:25.840 They said on a two bullet hole put an interior 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:27.599 to the car, the one that hate him in the 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:31.640 foot hall. People said to have come through the wandle, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.560 the very top, the back windle. You supposed in they 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.320 head one. They went to the trunk. They said that 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.840 a blizzard went to the trunk, went to the back seat, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:45.280 to the back of the drama seat, kicked him in 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.480 the right upper side of his back. 0:10:47.880 --> 0:10:50.880 But a picture of the open trunk showed no damage 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.040 at all to the car stereo speakers that covered the seatbacks. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:11:00.360 So the prosecutor actually motioned to have that photo barred 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:07.080 from evidence. I'm just gonna pause there for a second. Ah, Yeah, 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.280 which you know, my spidy senses are telling me that 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:15.120 an independent investigation of the vehicle would have been prudent 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:16.120 and necessary. 0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:20.600 So the car gets sold immediately that. 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.400 We used to call it through the marble, And I 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.080 guess she got rid of it because Hassan got killed 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.520 in it. The dude that bought the car, he said 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.280 there was no bullet hole in the back of the 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:32.000 drive of seat this compa. 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:33.640 But I spoke to someone who spoke to the guy 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.080 who bought the car, and he says there were no 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:36.959 back seats. 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:40.320 So no driver's seat, bullet hole, no back seats to 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.000 even confirm or deny the alleged trunk bullet path. Somebody 0:11:44.080 --> 0:11:46.800 had gotten rid of them, right. But the state's theory 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:52.280 becomes even more unbelievable when you consider the bullet's trajectory 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.480 through Charles Newsom's body. 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:58.720 They said it a bullet What do the prong? What 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:01.439 do the back seat went through the back of the drivers, 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:05.400 hit him in the right upper side, open back, and 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.360 terminated in the lower left front. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.480 It's a downward trajectory, Pully. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.760 Wouldn't they hate him? They put no down will pay him? 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:15.800 Would would have would break to a person. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.480 In my eyes, the fatal shot has to have come 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.480 from inside the car based on the ballistics. There is 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.319 no other way it could have happened. 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:50.000 The ongoing inter neighborhood gun violence had both the police 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:55.480 and alleged witnesses speculating about Foxwood, specifically about Ken Gillum 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:59.640 and Antonio Williams, which wasn't that wild of an idea, 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.720 can considering Ken's alibi because Ken was at his girlfriend, 0:13:03.840 --> 0:13:07.440 Tarshalla Flores, his home with his two kids, one of 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:11.439 whom was nicknamed Pooh, and sometime before the shooting took place, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:13.600 some Foxwood guys that stop by. 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.400 So Ken's girlfriend her two brothers are the big drug 0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:20.520 dealers in West Memphis. They were Flores, so that house 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:22.319 was kind of where they all hang out. That's where 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.000 they sold drugs from. It was kind of like the 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:26.960 meeting point. So that's why these people came over. 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:30.760 They were come, roll Waters over, We're going to get Charles. 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.959 Tasha dude like no, you better come get your dad. 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:36.880 And stupid dad trying to go a wag to jail. 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.920 So he running there, grabbed my lead, hold on my lead, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.520 was like, Mane, look, man I'm street. I ain't gonna 0:13:43.600 --> 0:13:49.199 I'm sorry cute my partners called me. He was like, hey, Mane, 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.800 they can't shot Nane and know your name the firm name. 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.640 Come home. He said, you might want to get your 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.280 keys and stuff I have to have. I'm here and 0:13:57.320 --> 0:13:58.360 it's going to be for shooting. 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.880 So you might be thinking, wait a minute, does Ken 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:04.360 actually know who did it? 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.600 See the parties? They didn't do it. 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:13.000 Now, Remember, the bullet trajectory supports that the fatal shot 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.360 had to have come from inside the car, and soon 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:19.680 after the shooting, the police had more support for a 0:14:19.720 --> 0:14:23.880 close range gunshot. According to a report summarizing the Arkansas 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:27.760 Crime Labs gunshot residue analysis that was entered into evidence 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:33.360 of trial, Charles Newsom's jacket had quote one perforating hole 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.800 in the upper right back with residues relating to a 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:40.800 firearm discharge end quote. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.920 The only way that Newsom would have residue on the 0:14:45.040 --> 0:14:49.880 jacket was that if the shot had come from close range. 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:54.520 But despite that, the state continued to build this sort 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:59.120 of wild narrative about shooters outside the car, which centered 0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:00.800 and relied on l his statements. 0:15:01.200 --> 0:15:03.920 Carol Ali said that I don't know who did it. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.040 That's the first statement. The second statement was gave a 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.920 couple of hours a capt there, and he said that 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.720 Gilby and Williams did it. Five days later, he gave 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:19.760 a third statement saying four people did gil them Willison, Willis, 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.240 and Jackson. But Ronald Jackson was found out to be 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.480 in Kentucky, so they know that was another lie. 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:31.040 So the mention of Ronald Jackson was just ignored while 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.120 the focus remained on the other three. And it seems 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.240 to Marco Wilson, who happens to be Ken's cousin, by 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.240 the way, was seen at Mayfair that night by a 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:41.200 man named Mark Welch. 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:43.880 Oh my god. The Marco is like, that's the whole 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.120 other thing, Like he's not even in this friend group. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.400 He was in his girlfriend's apartment because they had a 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.640 newborn child, and he just walked down because he heard shots. 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:55.440 So Mark Welsh how he plays into the story. He 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.360 just goes like, I was there, I was in the 0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.480 apartments and I saw the Marco was standing outside. He 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:01.920 looked at you take it. So that's how de Marco 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:02.880 comes into the whole thing. 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.400 So DeMarco's name was added to Ellis's third statement, and 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.480 they picked up Ken a few days later, but he 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:09.600 was in charged yet. 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:11.800 They took me the Jones brou to take a lot 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:14.720 to take the cares. But the man said exploit. You 0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.560 said no, you paid to answer. Did you have anything 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.640 to do with it? You said no, you paid answer me. 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:25.400 Do you know anything about it? And you said no, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:28.200 and until you were sure, you lying. So I said, 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:30.840 you said, I passed on not being there, and I 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.240 passed not having anything new with it, right? He said, yes, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.000 said well I did. I'm innocent, so may leave me 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:39.600 along because I need shit. But it's you one that 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:42.400 you know something about it. I said that ain't my job. 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:43.600 I don't work for the police. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.440 You don't want to mess with these people. So he 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:50.240 was not going to start pointing fingers and get potentially 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:51.840 retaliation from someone. 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:53.520 He ended up let me go. 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:56.280 Since Ken was not going to give them any information, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:17:00.240 especially since he hadn't actually seen anything, they continue to 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:03.160 build the narrative. In his third statement, Ellis mentioned two 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.280 alleged witnesses who he said were just happened to be 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.840 driving by, Darnell Troop and Kevin Johnson. Troop gave a 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.439 statement about having heard the shots, while Johnson said that 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.320 he saw Antonio DeMarco and Ken by the manager's office 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.439 and that one of them had had a rifle. 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.359 It's funny to read their interrogation transcript because the police goes, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:27.440 you saw these people standing on Wes McCauley, right. Kevin 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.840 Johnson goes, right, it sounded like a rifle, right, yes, right. 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:34.920 So the police is literally the way they're framing their 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.879 questions is with the information they need. 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.760 And this Johnson and three of the witnesses and say, hey, 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.960 all three of them, Hey, they job just dismissed. Ten 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:48.159 years after apposition. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:52.680 These three witnesses got their charges dropped on February two 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:56.360 thousand and eight, all of them, and all of them 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.800 but one has now come forward and basically said I 0:17:59.880 --> 0:18:03.359 was lying and I was offered something to lie. Kevin 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.720 Johnson said that he got drugs in exchange for that testimony. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.880 So they all have their charges dropped the same month, 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.480 the same year, and some even the same day. You know, 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.560 and for people who are not like super familiar with 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.800 what this means, like this highly suggests they were cop informants, 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:24.000 because cops were holding these convictions over their heads until 0:18:24.040 --> 0:18:25.120 they didn't need them anymore. 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:29.959 This endless get out in an abandoned house Will fifty 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:34.840 seven thousand, three ninety seven dollars two ketos and what 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:37.159 if I am a second or two or three gone? 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:41.000 He got five years of total c which he had 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:43.120 to do ten months, and he could get out on it. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.119 So Ellis, for example, he testified in like five or 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.440 six criminal cases, like a bunch of them, always saying 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.280 whatever the police needed him to say. 0:18:51.760 --> 0:18:54.640 And those weren't the only deals to be had. Ken 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.639 was offered ten years with just two years to the 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.480 parole board. Now, call me crazy, but it sounds to 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.680 me like they may not have really thought he did 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:04.760 it if they're offering him two years for a crime 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:09.879 this serious but okay. But Ken refused the deal. What 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:13.480 guilty guy refuses that deal, that's the best deal they're 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:18.480 ever going to get. But Ken refused, So they bolstered 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:21.960 their case with a jail house snitch named Jeff Cayton. Now, 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.080 fun fact, one of the investigators in West Memphis at 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.960 the time, a guy named Mike Allen. Well, he's the 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.960 current sheriff of Crittendon County and he's now married to 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.040 Jeff's sister. Anyway, Jeff gave a statement saying that in 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:38.600 jail he's actually married to the jail house nitch's sister. 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:40.880 Just when you think you've heard everything on the wrongful 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:42.800 conviction that you can hear it, then you hear stuff 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:45.679 like this. Anyway. Jeff gave a statement saying that in 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.680 jail he'd overheard Ken just rambling on and on about 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:50.119 the shooting. 0:19:50.560 --> 0:19:53.680 Jeff Kate says that the prosecutor, fran Thorne want to 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.040 him to say it. He's hurt me and tay you 0:19:56.440 --> 0:19:59.159 saying that I killed somebody and he's saying the people. 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.320 And they said they wouldn't send him to the penitentiary. 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.840 They sent him to boot camp on ninety They put 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.760 under the head like a little army thing and they 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.600 get help. So they sent him to boot camp two 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:16.160 weeks prior to trial. We went to trial November fourth 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:20.399 through November nineteen ninety seven, and on the sand he 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.000 said he didn't get a deal. He said that he 0:20:24.000 --> 0:20:26.399 heard me say that I shot the gas car with 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.440 a shotgun. It wasn't no shotgun. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:32.600 Fair saying, you know it's wild that with all of 0:20:32.640 --> 0:20:36.800 the shellcasings from this incident and others at Mayfair, they 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:41.359 still couldn't find one shotgun shell that would have made 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:44.760 Caton's testimony make sense. And by the way. He later 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:48.520 recanted his statement as well, in case this wasn't screwed 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:52.400 up enough. Next up, Darnell Troop said he had heard 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:55.280 the shots while he drove by with Kevin Johnson, who 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:56.800 took the stand as well. 0:20:57.040 --> 0:21:00.359 He said that him had done their troop in the 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.600 car together passing by, and he said, we shooting a 0:21:03.760 --> 0:21:08.040 noosel white car with nucl Carl Purple and he seeing 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.560 me Williams Willison and Jarry Johnson and the man duke officer. 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:16.480 So Kevin Johnson, who later recanted, offered an entirely new 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:18.840 person into the narrative, just out of thin air. A 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.639 guy named Jerry Johnson appears in this narrative who also 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:25.399 ended up having a solid alibi like Ronald Jackson had 0:21:25.440 --> 0:21:26.880 had from Elis's third statement. 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:31.040 Now and it's his first two statements. They were with 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:35.160 hal from us until the first day of trial. I mean, 0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:38.120 they caught that man in so many lines. They tell 0:21:38.200 --> 0:21:40.479 me your first statement, why didn't you just kill them? 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.480 Who did it? Oh Man? I just want to saying 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:45.800