1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: On February first, nineteen ninety seven, in West Memphis, Arkansas, 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: a young man named Charles Newsom was fatally shot in 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: his car. According to some witnesses, Charles was with two 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: others in his car, but only one was ever identified. 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: Frederick Tyrone Ellis. Ellis gave inconsistent accounts about the number, location, 6 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: and identities of the assailants, eventually fixing the narrative on 7 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: first four and then three men from a rival neighborhood, 8 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: Antonio Williams, DeMarco Wilson and Kendrick Gillham, who he placed 9 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: outside the vehicle for the shooting. However, the ballistics and 10 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: physical evidence say something different. This is wrathful Conviction. You're 11 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: listening to wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this and 12 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: all the Lava for Good podcasts one week early and 13 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: ad free by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on 14 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts. Welcome back to Wronful Conviction, where we're going 15 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: to return to West Memphis, Arkansas. Yes, the home of 16 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: the West Memphis three, one of whom Jason Baldwin first 17 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: told our colleague Maggie Freeling about the case we're going 18 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: to be covering today and we're going to link that 19 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: episode of unjustin Unsolved in the episode description. In this 20 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: case involves the same local legal system, as well as 21 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: three co defendants, one of whom Kendrick Gillham, is calling 22 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: in from an Arkansas prison. Ken, thanks for joining us, 23 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: Thank you, you're welcome. Now a second former guest, Marty Tankliffe. 24 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: It was his efforts through the making an ex reclass 25 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: at Georgetown University with Professor Mark Howard that led a 26 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: group of students to reinvestigate the case for Ken. And 27 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: we're joined by one of those former students who is 28 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: currently seeking her master's in investigative journalism, Claudia Mendeweta. 29 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 2: Welcome, thank you for having me. 30 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: So let's start with Ken's life growing up in this 31 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: small and notorious city of only about twenty five thousand 32 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: people on the west side of the Mississippi River from Memphis, Tennessee, 33 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,079 Speaker 1: called West Memphis. 34 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,360 Speaker 3: My mom she haed me two that twenty fourth, nineteen 35 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 3: seventy one. You know, I had a pretty normal childhood. 36 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 3: You know, my mom, she took good care of me 37 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,800 Speaker 3: and my brothers. We come from a big family and 38 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: all of us was closer the neighborhood because I said, 39 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 3: like from five years old, we would always get together 40 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 3: on the weekends, all as the summer the school was out. 41 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: We was always somewhere on the bikes together, played football, basketball, 42 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 3: collecting knes it's, cutting yards together. We had a little 43 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 3: long services, we hated, you know, we gave some money 44 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 3: in our pockets, and you know, we all just grew 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 3: up together. You know, we were basically always there for 46 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 3: each other. 47 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: This group of family and friends lived in the Foxwood 48 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: area of West Memphis and then was a rival neighborhood 49 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: group from about a mile and a half away on 50 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: Eighteenth Street, and Foxwood continued to stick together as the 51 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: kids became teens and as problems became more complicated as 52 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: they were introduced to the drug trade. 53 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 3: I said, part of the started, I said about ninth grade. 54 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: You know, we started hanging out, chasing girls, drinking girl 55 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 3: not doing my mom's see. And then like like sixteen, 56 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 3: I was really like I was just full plays one 57 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,080 Speaker 3: of the streets and I had a partner that I 58 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 3: used to run with and he'd be setting drugs all 59 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 3: night and I'd just be running around with him. And 60 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: I was like seventeen when I first got shot. Oh yeah, 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 3: I was like seventeen when I first got shot, So 62 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 3: I've been shot three other times. The front, it went 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 3: through my tophicals and it came by my shoulders, and 64 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: then I was shot in the stomach and it came 65 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 3: out my bank. No time I was shot in the 66 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 3: league in the upper part, almost by my balls. And 67 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 3: the last time did they take this? Watch the eighteenth 68 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: Street dudes shoot up where I was at. They came 69 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 3: through three car fee and he watched him shoot it 70 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: us and then he pulled up and shot me. And 71 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,120 Speaker 3: he shot my home boy two mo pans, which added 72 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 3: to the eleven hands that he was already shot. 73 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: Detective Brian Ridge, who's also a big character in the 74 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: West Memphis three, shot his friend. His friend is kind 75 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: of on the side of the road. Ken is trying 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 2: to take him to the hospital and then he shoots 77 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: Kin so he can't help him. 78 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 3: Laying on the float bleeding and the police got a 79 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: gun to my head. They shot my mama house up 80 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 3: to right around the corner. He wants three cars with 81 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 3: its cas shoot up his house and he didn't pursuit him. 82 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: It seems like Detective Brian Ridge and potentially others were 83 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: at the very least turning a blind eye to the 84 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: Eighteenth Street guys. 85 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: I didn't get any evidence to this, but it was 86 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: something that everyone told me when I was in West Memphis, 87 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 2: like the people in the A. Treen Street group were 88 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: working with the police to sell drugs. One woman sat 89 00:04:58,440 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 2: down at me and she was like, how do you 90 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 2: think drugs get into West Memphis? Like we don't have 91 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: a port. Police will do a drug bust, and you 92 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 2: think they're throwing those drugs away, they're not. They're putting 93 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 2: them right back in circulation. 94 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 3: The girl I was going with but I had the 95 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 3: kids buy they pulled upon her brother over at the 96 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: gas station one day and he was saying that they 97 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: pulled up on him and said, Hey, you need to 98 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 3: go talk to Kendrick. We got something for you, and 99 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 3: y'all ain't got to worry about us twin now, as 100 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,560 Speaker 3: long as y'all keep you down over there, y'all ain't 101 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 3: got to worry about us the rest nobody. But if 102 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: you don't, we'll be to see you. So what happened 103 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 3: was he came told me and I refused to say 104 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 3: a dope. 105 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: On him, and it appears that perhaps one of the 106 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: more prominent Eighteenth Street guys, Terrence Robinson, may have taken 107 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: this deal while Foxwood suffered the consequences. 108 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 3: The girl I was going with her brother, they gave 109 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 3: him the datment. They got my brother on the diapers, 110 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 3: They got Chuck Kirkwood, they got my whole neighborhood on 111 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 3: the diapers. The all the walk probably was left that 112 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 3: didn't get in the diaper with me almoose. 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 2: So Terrence Robinson, he's the person who, like we said, 114 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: so drugs with the police. He had a cousin called 115 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: Daryl Robertson. Darryl gets shot and that's what they try 116 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: to put on Ken, but that fails. 117 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 3: He gird order. He got to go write their statement 118 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 3: on me was lyons in kis who had to drop 119 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 3: the jobs. The one was investigated, the same one they 120 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 3: shot me, Brian Reid. 121 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: And with the context of this unholy alliance between the 122 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:37,599 Speaker 1: police and Foxwood rivals on Eighteenth Street, tensions flared further 123 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 1: over a dice game in nineteen ninety six involving Ken's 124 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: friend Chuck and Terrence Robinson, who was with James Newsom, 125 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: the cousin of the victim in this case. 126 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 3: They had a nice game going on in the neighborhood, 127 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: Dames Gruesom and Terrence Robinson style Shuton guys Woodhelm. Anyway, 128 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 3: chue k b Terrence Alley's money, so Chump took off 129 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 3: the Wolkin. They pulled up Scot out the car and 130 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 3: hit truck in the face and tried to go on 131 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: his pockets and take it money. So this when the 132 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 3: fighter started. And after that we ended up seeing them 133 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 3: at the skating ring. We was going to the back 134 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: and they was coming away from the bank, and we 135 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 3: all got to fight New and answered the first justice, 136 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: Sire New. 137 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: And this kicked off a series of incidents of retaliatory 138 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 1: gun violence leading up to the incident in question on 139 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: February first, nineteen ninety seven, which occurred at nine hundred 140 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: West McCauley Drive, the Mayfair Apartment complex, which unfortunately was 141 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: no stranger to gunfights, and with this ongoing feud between 142 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: eighteenth Street and Foxwood, the likely assumption was that someone 143 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,679 Speaker 1: from Foxwood was involved in the shooting. Now, the victim 144 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: in this case, Charles Newsom, lived there with his parents, 145 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: and according to some witnesses, Charles left home with Terrence 146 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: Robinson and Frederick Tyrone. 147 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 3: Ellis Caroli said that he was old Charles Newson house 148 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 3: in phil Paul. That's waiting on Charle to take a 149 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: shot down and take a bail, and there was the 150 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,200 Speaker 3: only way to minches. They walked into the car and 151 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 3: they drove pay us by the manager's office and he 152 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 3: said that he's seen four people out there and they 153 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: began shoot this out of the car. 154 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 2: No one is very certain about how many shots were 155 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: fired or when the shot hit, but it was basically 156 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 2: a shootout happening. Someone took their hand out of the 157 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: windows started shooting back barely. 158 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 3: Said that Chaul made a right old McCarley and he 159 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: hit another car and he said chall that he couldn't breathe, 160 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 3: and so ca Ronald said that he scowed it over. 161 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 3: It stuck his leg onder the hands field up and 162 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,200 Speaker 3: he drove from the passenger side all the way back 163 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: round to the front of the building where he went 164 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 3: and can't help it. 165 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:45,439 Speaker 1: So the cops arrived and according to some witness says, 166 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: Terrence Robinson should have been with Ellis to give an account, 167 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: but no account has ever been found. Now. Initially Ellis 168 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: had said that three or four black males who he 169 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: couldn't identify, were shooting from the passenger's side, and that 170 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: when Charles was hit, he reached his foot over to 171 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: hit the gas to try to flee. But according to 172 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: a document that was just recently found, the body was 173 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: discovered in a position that really doesn't match his story. 174 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: We've gotten various accounts of how the body was found, 175 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: but never this one that Charles Newsom was basically turned 176 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: back and he was lunged over the driver's seat. 177 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 3: One week with she Seed, somebody had opened the door 178 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 3: and looked at his car, so it was cussin and 179 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: he jumped back in the car and. 180 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: Drove around the bend, which makes you think that whoever 181 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: drove the car out of there made room for himself 182 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: by pushing Charles over the seat, or perhaps Charles had 183 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: even lunged back there, since the shot may well have 184 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: come from inside the car, But unfortunately the state of 185 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: the physical evidence hasn't made anything clearer. It appears, in fact, 186 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: that Charles Dusom's car had been involved in previous shootouts 187 00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: and plenty of damage to the out side of the car. 188 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: Two bullets were pulled from the car ceiling that aren't 189 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 1: part of the record in this case, as well as 190 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: two bullet holes the police claimed had penetrated the interior 191 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: and were related to this particular shooting. Now, how did 192 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: they know that, We don't know. We have no idea. 193 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: But maybe they said that because Charles Newsom was only 194 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: shot twice, once in the right forearm and once in 195 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: the right upper back. 196 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: They said on a two bullet hole put an interior 197 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:27,599 Speaker 3: to the car, the one that hate him in the 198 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 3: foot hall. People said to have come through the wandle, 199 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 3: the very top, the back windle. You supposed in they 200 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 3: head one. They went to the trunk. They said that 201 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: a blizzard went to the trunk, went to the back seat, 202 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: to the back of the drama seat, kicked him in 203 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 3: the right upper side of his back. 204 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: But a picture of the open trunk showed no damage 205 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: at all to the car stereo speakers that covered the seatbacks. 206 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: So the prosecutor actually motioned to have that photo barred 207 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: from evidence. I'm just gonna pause there for a second. Ah, Yeah, 208 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: which you know, my spidy senses are telling me that 209 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: an independent investigation of the vehicle would have been prudent 210 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: and necessary. 211 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: So the car gets sold immediately that. 212 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: We used to call it through the marble, And I 213 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 3: guess she got rid of it because Hassan got killed 214 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,520 Speaker 3: in it. The dude that bought the car, he said 215 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 3: there was no bullet hole in the back of the 216 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: drive of seat this compa. 217 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: But I spoke to someone who spoke to the guy 218 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: who bought the car, and he says there were no 219 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:36,959 Speaker 2: back seats. 220 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 1: So no driver's seat, bullet hole, no back seats to 221 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: even confirm or deny the alleged trunk bullet path. Somebody 222 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: had gotten rid of them, right. But the state's theory 223 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 1: becomes even more unbelievable when you consider the bullet's trajectory 224 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: through Charles Newsom's body. 225 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 3: They said it a bullet What do the prong? What 226 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 3: do the back seat went through the back of the drivers, 227 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 3: hit him in the right upper side, open back, and 228 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: terminated in the lower left front. 229 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 2: It's a downward trajectory, Pully. 230 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 3: Wouldn't they hate him? They put no down will pay him? 231 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 3: Would would have would break to a person. 232 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 2: In my eyes, the fatal shot has to have come 233 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 2: from inside the car based on the ballistics. There is 234 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 2: no other way it could have happened. 235 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: The ongoing inter neighborhood gun violence had both the police 236 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: and alleged witnesses speculating about Foxwood, specifically about Ken Gillum 237 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: and Antonio Williams, which wasn't that wild of an idea, 238 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: can considering Ken's alibi because Ken was at his girlfriend, 239 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: Tarshalla Flores, his home with his two kids, one of 240 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:11,439 Speaker 1: whom was nicknamed Pooh, and sometime before the shooting took place, 241 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: some Foxwood guys that stop by. 242 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 2: So Ken's girlfriend her two brothers are the big drug 243 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: dealers in West Memphis. They were Flores, so that house 244 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 2: was kind of where they all hang out. That's where 245 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 2: they sold drugs from. It was kind of like the 246 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 2: meeting point. So that's why these people came over. 247 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 3: They were come, roll Waters over, We're going to get Charles. 248 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 3: Tasha dude like no, you better come get your dad. 249 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 3: And stupid dad trying to go a wag to jail. 250 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: So he running there, grabbed my lead, hold on my lead, 251 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: was like, Mane, look, man I'm street. I ain't gonna 252 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:49,199 Speaker 3: I'm sorry cute my partners called me. He was like, hey, Mane, 253 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: they can't shot Nane and know your name the firm name. 254 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 3: Come home. He said, you might want to get your 255 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,280 Speaker 3: keys and stuff I have to have. I'm here and 256 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 3: it's going to be for shooting. 257 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 1: So you might be thinking, wait a minute, does Ken 258 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: actually know who did it? 259 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 3: See the parties? They didn't do it. 260 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: Now, Remember, the bullet trajectory supports that the fatal shot 261 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: had to have come from inside the car, and soon 262 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: after the shooting, the police had more support for a 263 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: close range gunshot. According to a report summarizing the Arkansas 264 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: Crime Labs gunshot residue analysis that was entered into evidence 265 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: of trial, Charles Newsom's jacket had quote one perforating hole 266 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: in the upper right back with residues relating to a 267 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 1: firearm discharge end quote. 268 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: The only way that Newsom would have residue on the 269 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 2: jacket was that if the shot had come from close range. 270 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 1: But despite that, the state continued to build this sort 271 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: of wild narrative about shooters outside the car, which centered 272 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: and relied on l his statements. 273 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 3: Carol Ali said that I don't know who did it. 274 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 3: That's the first statement. The second statement was gave a 275 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 3: couple of hours a capt there, and he said that 276 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 3: Gilby and Williams did it. Five days later, he gave 277 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: a third statement saying four people did gil them Willison, Willis, 278 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: and Jackson. But Ronald Jackson was found out to be 279 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: in Kentucky, so they know that was another lie. 280 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: So the mention of Ronald Jackson was just ignored while 281 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: the focus remained on the other three. And it seems 282 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,240 Speaker 1: to Marco Wilson, who happens to be Ken's cousin, by 283 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: the way, was seen at Mayfair that night by a 284 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: man named Mark Welch. 285 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: Oh my god. The Marco is like, that's the whole 286 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 2: other thing, Like he's not even in this friend group. 287 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: He was in his girlfriend's apartment because they had a 288 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 2: newborn child, and he just walked down because he heard shots. 289 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: So Mark Welsh how he plays into the story. He 290 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: just goes like, I was there, I was in the 291 00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: apartments and I saw the Marco was standing outside. He 292 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 2: looked at you take it. So that's how de Marco 293 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: comes into the whole thing. 294 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: So DeMarco's name was added to Ellis's third statement, and 295 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: they picked up Ken a few days later, but he 296 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: was in charged yet. 297 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: They took me the Jones brou to take a lot 298 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 3: to take the cares. But the man said exploit. You 299 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 3: said no, you paid to answer. Did you have anything 300 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: to do with it? You said no, you paid answer me. 301 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: Do you know anything about it? And you said no, 302 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 3: and until you were sure, you lying. So I said, 303 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 3: you said, I passed on not being there, and I 304 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 3: passed not having anything new with it, right? He said, yes, 305 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 3: said well I did. I'm innocent, so may leave me 306 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: along because I need shit. But it's you one that 307 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 3: you know something about it. I said that ain't my job. 308 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 3: I don't work for the police. 309 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: You don't want to mess with these people. So he 310 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,240 Speaker 2: was not going to start pointing fingers and get potentially 311 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: retaliation from someone. 312 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: He ended up let me go. 313 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 1: Since Ken was not going to give them any information, 314 00:16:56,520 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: especially since he hadn't actually seen anything, they continue to 315 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: build the narrative. In his third statement, Ellis mentioned two 316 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: alleged witnesses who he said were just happened to be 317 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 1: driving by, Darnell Troop and Kevin Johnson. Troop gave a 318 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: statement about having heard the shots, while Johnson said that 319 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: he saw Antonio DeMarco and Ken by the manager's office 320 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 1: and that one of them had had a rifle. 321 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,359 Speaker 2: It's funny to read their interrogation transcript because the police goes, 322 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 2: you saw these people standing on Wes McCauley, right. Kevin 323 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: Johnson goes, right, it sounded like a rifle, right, yes, right. 324 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 2: So the police is literally the way they're framing their 325 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: questions is with the information they need. 326 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 3: And this Johnson and three of the witnesses and say, hey, 327 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 3: all three of them, Hey, they job just dismissed. Ten 328 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 3: years after apposition. 329 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 2: These three witnesses got their charges dropped on February two 330 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, all of them, and all of them 331 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: but one has now come forward and basically said I 332 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: was lying and I was offered something to lie. Kevin 333 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 2: Johnson said that he got drugs in exchange for that testimony. 334 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 2: So they all have their charges dropped the same month, 335 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 2: the same year, and some even the same day. You know, 336 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 2: and for people who are not like super familiar with 337 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: what this means, like this highly suggests they were cop informants, 338 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 2: because cops were holding these convictions over their heads until 339 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,120 Speaker 2: they didn't need them anymore. 340 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:29,959 Speaker 3: This endless get out in an abandoned house Will fifty 341 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 3: seven thousand, three ninety seven dollars two ketos and what 342 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 3: if I am a second or two or three gone? 343 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 3: He got five years of total c which he had 344 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 3: to do ten months, and he could get out on it. 345 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 2: So Ellis, for example, he testified in like five or 346 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 2: six criminal cases, like a bunch of them, always saying 347 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: whatever the police needed him to say. 348 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,640 Speaker 1: And those weren't the only deals to be had. Ken 349 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,639 Speaker 1: was offered ten years with just two years to the 350 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: parole board. Now, call me crazy, but it sounds to 351 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: me like they may not have really thought he did 352 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: it if they're offering him two years for a crime 353 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: this serious but okay. But Ken refused the deal. What 354 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: guilty guy refuses that deal, that's the best deal they're 355 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: ever going to get. But Ken refused, So they bolstered 356 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: their case with a jail house snitch named Jeff Cayton. Now, 357 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: fun fact, one of the investigators in West Memphis at 358 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 1: the time, a guy named Mike Allen. Well, he's the 359 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: current sheriff of Crittendon County and he's now married to 360 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: Jeff's sister. Anyway, Jeff gave a statement saying that in 361 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: jail he's actually married to the jail house nitch's sister. 362 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: Just when you think you've heard everything on the wrongful 363 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: conviction that you can hear it, then you hear stuff 364 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,679 Speaker 1: like this. Anyway. Jeff gave a statement saying that in 365 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: jail he'd overheard Ken just rambling on and on about 366 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: the shooting. 367 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:53,680 Speaker 3: Jeff Kate says that the prosecutor, fran Thorne want to 368 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 3: him to say it. He's hurt me and tay you 369 00:19:56,440 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 3: saying that I killed somebody and he's saying the people. 370 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 3: And they said they wouldn't send him to the penitentiary. 371 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: They sent him to boot camp on ninety They put 372 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 3: under the head like a little army thing and they 373 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 3: get help. So they sent him to boot camp two 374 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 3: weeks prior to trial. We went to trial November fourth 375 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 3: through November nineteen ninety seven, and on the sand he 376 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 3: said he didn't get a deal. He said that he 377 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 3: heard me say that I shot the gas car with 378 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 3: a shotgun. It wasn't no shotgun. 379 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: Fair saying, you know it's wild that with all of 380 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: the shellcasings from this incident and others at Mayfair, they 381 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: still couldn't find one shotgun shell that would have made 382 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: Caton's testimony make sense. And by the way. He later 383 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: recanted his statement as well, in case this wasn't screwed 384 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: up enough. Next up, Darnell Troop said he had heard 385 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 1: the shots while he drove by with Kevin Johnson, who 386 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 1: took the stand as well. 387 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 3: He said that him had done their troop in the 388 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 3: car together passing by, and he said, we shooting a 389 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 3: noosel white car with nucl Carl Purple and he seeing 390 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 3: me Williams Willison and Jarry Johnson and the man duke officer. 391 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: So Kevin Johnson, who later recanted, offered an entirely new 392 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 1: person into the narrative, just out of thin air. A 393 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 1: guy named Jerry Johnson appears in this narrative who also 394 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: ended up having a solid alibi like Ronald Jackson had 395 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: had from Elis's third statement. 396 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 3: Now and it's his first two statements. They were with 397 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 3: hal from us until the first day of trial. I mean, 398 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,120 Speaker 3: they caught that man in so many lines. They tell 399 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,479 Speaker 3: me your first statement, why didn't you just kill them? 400 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 3: Who did it? Oh Man? I just want to saying 401 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 3: that to me. You know what I'm saying. It wasn't 402 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 3: not your second statement you said kill them Williams eating 403 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,159 Speaker 3: oh Man? I just gave him a little some some 404 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 3: Come on, man, do you remember sitting you've seen him 405 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 3: up at the passengers? No, I ain't say it for 406 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,760 Speaker 3: they be a video statement said, yes about the passage 407 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 3: of the one. But what kind of guns did you see? 408 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 3: Two them head night rifle, pink kaylight guns that one 409 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 3: of them made the head guns. Do you remember saying 410 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 3: that you see they hey cawon guns. No, I don't know. 411 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 3: So they pade a video statement, ye say, hey, holme guns. 412 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 3: Then what about the fourth person? I'm just probably mistinking 413 00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 3: about deal? But so you for sure about these three? Yeah, 414 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 3: I'm sure who had what guns? Oh? Man, I couldn't 415 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: feel it was too dull. 416 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: For the record, it was eight pm in February, the 417 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: area wasn't well lit, so it probably was too dark 418 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,440 Speaker 1: for anyone to have seen what they claimed to have seen. 419 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 1: But at this point, despite the inconsistencies and discrepancies, the 420 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: jury heard three witnesses named the three co defendants without 421 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 1: any context of the deals they'd made with the prosecutor's office, 422 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: and in addition, they were able to keep Ken's alibi 423 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: witness Tarshalla Flores, off the stand. 424 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 3: They come in with two bullet pips did they said 425 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 3: they found and Tasha mulg House is doing a drug 426 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 3: grade six months after the murder, and they said that 427 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 3: these bullets had the same lot number on them as 428 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 3: the one found that the scene. So she didn't testify 429 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 3: for me because they were trying to act like I 430 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: had something to do that I had and I had 431 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 3: something to do with anything. I was in jail for 432 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 3: six months, So y'all raided their house. Lot number on 433 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 3: the back of the bullets don't mean nothing. This just 434 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 3: a year that there was manufactured. And I can bet 435 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 3: you this, if you had any other ak shootings or 436 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 3: sk shooting jails frown, you gonna have the same lot 437 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 3: number because all the drug dealers went to the same 438 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 3: place and bought the bullets. And that was Red Barn. 439 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: Again, this is important context that the jury never heard. Now. 440 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: The prosecutors also called Detective Brian Ridge to discuss his 441 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: magic curving bullet theory, and he came. 442 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 3: In with a homemade picture that he drew up. He 443 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 3: took a box car, a juvenile picture that a five 444 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,639 Speaker 3: year old could have drew and it had the diresion 445 00:23:56,880 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 3: that he think says that the bullet went, bullet hole 446 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 3: hit the car on the tube. The hole was supposedly 447 00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,000 Speaker 3: gonna traded the inuitor. The picct them was hit in 448 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: the right four hall. Now, bullet people said to have come. 449 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,040 Speaker 1: Through the window, which is plausible. The bullet could have 450 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: struck his forearm as he held the steering wheel, or 451 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: perhaps he raised his arm defensively at some point and 452 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: it was struck. But then the only other possible entry 453 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: point that they claimed was through the trunk, which they 454 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: said traveled through the back seat and driver's seat to 455 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: hit Charles. And remember we mentioned that the prosecutor already 456 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:40,640 Speaker 1: objected to admitting the picture of the open trunk into evidence. 457 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 3: They come into court with the photos showing a bulletholes 458 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 3: of the car. Right, So now they come to the 459 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 3: bullet hole in the back of the driver's seat. Guess 460 00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 3: what it can't be found. And two it was like, well, 461 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: they said, well you had this morning, didn't He said, yeah, hey, 462 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 3: but you've seen the lost from the police station. 463 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 1: The cool This is now like the dog ate my homework. 464 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: And then, to make matters worse, the state's next witness, 465 00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: Kevin Mainhardt, testified about the gun that was alleged to 466 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: have been used, in this case an sk rifle, which 467 00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: was helpful with demonstrating that the bullet could have made 468 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,439 Speaker 1: it through all of those different objects, but not with 469 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: the downward trajectory. 470 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 3: Easy, it will go straight through them, hold over them. 471 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 3: So I wanted to hit some redit and take them down. 472 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:28,479 Speaker 1: Will pay up? 473 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:29,959 Speaker 3: This can't make confense. 474 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: So through their own witnesses, the state had just contradicted 475 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: their own narrative and they were about to do it again. 476 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,720 Speaker 1: While presenting the medical evidence, they entered a number of 477 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: documents into evidence, including a report summarizing the Arkansas Crime 478 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 1: Labs gunshot residue analysis. Now, importantly, the gunshot residue of 479 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 1: the victim's hands was not submitted, and we'll get to 480 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: that in a minute. So at trial, one of the 481 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: things this summary report said was that Newsom's hands negative 482 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: for gunshot residue, and they put the medical examiner, doctor 483 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 1: Frank Peretti, on the stand. 484 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 2: Probably the most insane part of this trial is that 485 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: they never get a ballistics expert to come testify. They 486 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,439 Speaker 2: get a medical examiner, and this was a doctor that 487 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: infamously also testified in the West Memphis three trial. So 488 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: he's testifying in Ken's case, and he says, basically, I 489 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: don't have qualifications to do this. The just says it's okay, 490 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: go on, go on. And what he says in trial 491 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 2: is that there was no close range firing because he 492 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 2: didn't see residue on the. 493 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: Victim, and he specifically mentions the victim's skin, and this 494 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 1: is something he can speak to as an expert. There 495 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:47,640 Speaker 1: are ways to optically examine for residue or that can 496 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: be stippling, which is the burn pattern one can expect 497 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,400 Speaker 1: with close range gunshots. But the victim was wearing three 498 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: layers that night, remember it was February, a shirt, an undershirt, 499 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: and a jacket. And the report from the Arkansas Crime 500 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,880 Speaker 1: Lab says that is residue relating to firearm discharge around 501 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: the hole in the right upper back. 502 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 2: But the medical examiner is literally saying the shot was 503 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,199 Speaker 2: coming from fifteen twenty minutes away, like the bullet came 504 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 2: from outside the car. While there's information that there's primer 505 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 2: residue on the victim, and this is pointed out by 506 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 2: either Antonio or DeMarco's lawyer and they were like, look, 507 00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: this is impossible. There's an inconsistency. The state is saying 508 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,199 Speaker 2: that there's primary residue on the victim, and yet the 509 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 2: medical examiner is saying that there's no evidence of close 510 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 2: range shooting. This is impossible, But that juror who's not 511 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,679 Speaker 2: an expert on ballistics doesn't understand that. I mean, I 512 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: had to study this to understand it. If it was 513 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 2: just said to me like this, I would't understand it either. 514 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: And it seems that this case required at least a 515 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 1: ballistics expert to further explain this to the jury, but 516 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: that didn't happen before they went to deliberate. 517 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 3: Grandma sheen howl in the bathroom. Oh wait, it needs 518 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: out security chamber. So he was gonna help to the prosecutors, 519 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 3: and they said he told the prosecutors. He said, hey, man, 520 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,760 Speaker 3: y'all cases, y'all need to do something. Now. 521 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 2: We've gotten a hold of one of those jurors. And 522 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: he said it's a long time ago, man, I don't remember, 523 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: but he's he was very clear. He was like, when 524 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,520 Speaker 2: the jurors were deliberating, one of the prosecutors walks into 525 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 2: the jury room and they say something to the jurors 526 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 2: that's tempering with their decision, and then. 527 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 1: Those jurors returned with their verdict. All three men were 528 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: convicted of first degree murder and given life sentences without 529 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: the possibility of parole. 530 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 3: There's a lot of mind and a lot of disbelieve. 531 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 3: It was like it was like took my life? Did't know? 532 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 3: Do I just you know? It's that you just game 533 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 3: his plain because you need to make you feel so mad. 534 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 3: You'll be like talking him to make rail. You know 535 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 3: what I'm saying in the politration. You have to sit 536 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 3: here and wait and wait and hold some chime. And 537 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: now I gotta try to find a lawyer that'll take you. 538 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: I need help. It's hard, man, it is hard. You 539 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 3: don't know the feeling. Man. I lost my brother, my all, 540 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 3: my grandpa was gone. I even lost some grandchild since 541 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 3: up in the hero my brother was murdered, my grandma 542 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: died in the same man that help put me here 543 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 3: preached to help her. What kind of shit is this? 544 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 3: What kind of sh is this? 545 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: One of the investigators on this case, Detective On, became 546 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: a preacher and as luck would have it, or fate 547 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: or whatever irony whatever you want to call this, when 548 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: Ken was allowed to attend her funeral. Who the fuck 549 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:13,560 Speaker 1: do you think he saw there? 550 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,120 Speaker 3: He couldn't even look at me. I was sitting on 551 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 3: the part road. Every time he looked over there, and 552 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,440 Speaker 3: he put his head down. He put his head down. 553 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 3: I wanted to get up, but I had respect for 554 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 3: my grandmama. I wanted to get up, and may y'all 555 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 3: get this bitch about the art, because the bitch lined 556 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: on me and got me here this pen attention, and 557 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: they put my grandmoma need the car and I walked 558 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 3: up to him. I said, you lying, talk ass bitch. 559 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 3: My mama put him away from him. They do this 560 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 3: shit to you because they could do it. The only 561 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 3: thing this shit is it's criminals to heal us and 562 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 3: motherfuckles up. 563 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: The three co defendants had an alleged confession back in 564 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,280 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, but that fell apart before it even 565 00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: went to an evidentiary hearing oh. 566 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 3: Hey hanging down here and told him that he said 567 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: there and took the job, that they were going to 568 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 3: send him to the road, but that what dude changed took. 569 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: The moment following that, Kevin Johnson came forward in two 570 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: thousand and one claiming that he was offered drugs by 571 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: one of the victim's friends in exchange for this testimony, 572 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: and the team went back to court in two thousand 573 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: and three. 574 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 3: All two to them the issues was raised. It was 575 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,520 Speaker 3: the same thing they got the Wistmavis three free was 576 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 3: the same appeal that they used due to the. 577 00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: Scientific casting, so they filed a seventeen eighty six years. 578 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 1: Later in Discovery, they received a hidden gun shot residue. 579 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: Exam of Charles Newsom's hands. 580 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,960 Speaker 2: Turns out there's primar residue in Newsom's hands. The only 581 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: way that Newsom would have primar residue in his hands 582 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: was that if the shot had come from close range. 583 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: But that Charles was in close proximity to gunfire. 584 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 2: But that didn't go with their story that the shooters 585 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: were from outside the car, so there could have been 586 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 2: no power anywhere. The evidence would have proven otherwise. 587 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 3: They denied it because they said that there was no 588 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,280 Speaker 3: new scientific case thing it would have helped us look 589 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 3: that some of the cases I read. They saying that 590 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 3: it is not just for real reversal to be game 591 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 3: when the scene is convicted normally or not normally of 592 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 3: false evidence, and they know that they conveted me on false. 593 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: Evidence, and so did Jason Baldwin of the West Memphis Three, 594 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,760 Speaker 1: who knew DeMarco Wilson while he was in prison. We'll 595 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: have their stories linked in the episode description, so check 596 00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: them out. But upon his release in twenty eleven, he 597 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,960 Speaker 1: eventually began a nonprofit to reinvestigate innocent's claims, and this 598 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,960 Speaker 1: was their very first case. They tracked down witnesses and 599 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: tried to access the old case evidence to test for 600 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: DNA fingerprints, to reconstruct the crime scene, anything, and DeMarco 601 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,600 Speaker 1: went back to court in twenty eighteen. 602 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 3: They was trying to find out what the evidence was. 603 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 2: It and the deck on all of it is missing 604 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: and all of the reports are missing too. So not 605 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 2: only don't we have the shirt, the jacket and the 606 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 2: car any of that, which is already huge misconduct because 607 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: you're meant to keep evidence from murder case forever, we 608 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 2: don't even have pictures of it. And when we bring 609 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: Mike Allen to court, they're like, hey, what happened to 610 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:26,720 Speaker 2: this evidence? He's like it says, I checked it out, 611 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 2: but it wasn't me. Someone else done it. Someone else 612 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 2: mus have written my name. 613 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: I don't know where it is so someone just checked 614 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 1: the evidence out in nineteen ninety seven and it's just gone. 615 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: So I mean very convenient that because if we had 616 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 2: got evidence, if we could prove that can didn't do it, 617 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 2: you could do all types of testing. You could test 618 00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:47,640 Speaker 2: the pother again, you could test for DNA, you could 619 00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 2: test all types of things. 620 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:52,440 Speaker 1: Jason's team made contact with another potential confessor around twenty 621 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: twenty who had contacted law enforcement as early as twenty seventeen, 622 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: who was finally saying something that aligned with the evidence. 623 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 1: But that person took their own life before swearing under oath. 624 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: Now perhaps this wasn't even the right person, but it 625 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: was a similar tale to the nineteen ninety nine confessor 626 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 1: that three individuals, potentially the same guys that had stopped 627 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:16,319 Speaker 1: by Ken's girlfriend Tarsha's earlier that night, had driven up 628 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: next to Newsom's car and opened fire, and then the 629 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: person in the backseat of Newsom's car pulled a gun 630 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: to return fire, and they believed that's how Newsom was 631 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: shot from close range. Maybe that's what Ken meant by 632 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: they didn't do it. Meanwhile, after years of outreach, Ken 633 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: had finally got a response from the making xannery class 634 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: at Georgetown. 635 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 2: First we got the primer residue analysis, and then we 636 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 2: finally sent it over to a ballistic expert and he 637 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 2: was like, this is primary residue, like that shot came 638 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 2: from inside the car. And then we also have what 639 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,440 Speaker 2: five hundred pages worth of documents. I'm trying to reach 640 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 2: out to Ken's original attorney, but I sent them to 641 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 2: Ken and we talked and he was like, I don't 642 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 2: have any of this, like I never got any of this. 643 00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: And they also looked up Jeff Cayton. 644 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: He's been trying to come forward for a while because 645 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 2: he's dying now with cirrhosis, and now he called us 646 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 2: and he goes, I need to clear my consciousness, like 647 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,160 Speaker 2: I need to right this wrong. And he had years 648 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,279 Speaker 2: in prison and he basically said, the officers told me 649 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 2: a story, and they said, you tell that on the 650 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 2: stand and you'll go to boot camp. You get off 651 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 2: with this up on the wrist, like you're good. So 652 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 2: that's exactly what happened to him. Kevin Johnson, Jeff Kayton 653 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: have recanted, and someone else, Paul Hunt, has come forward 654 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 2: and said I was jeff cell mate, and he confessed 655 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 2: to me many times to falsely testifying in that trial. 656 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 2: So that's corroborated. And then we have someone who has 657 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 2: now come forward and said the people who actually were 658 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 2: shooting at Newsom drove the car to my house and 659 00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 2: confessed to me. Him and the three other guys confessed 660 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 2: to her, And that was not Ken Gillim. And this 661 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 2: woman had never spoken until I called her a few 662 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 2: months ago because someone gave me her name. 663 00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: So potentially there's a connection between Ken's story, this witness 664 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: and the three men from the other confessions. In the meantime, 665 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: Claudia and the team which includes TOMMYA. Hayes and Brandon T. 666 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: Ham while they're not giving up. 667 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,600 Speaker 2: We're in touch with the crime scene reconstruction expert and 668 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 2: also a handwriting expert because we believe some of the 669 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 2: signatures about medical reports and ballistics reports and all of 670 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 2: that has been forged from the beginning. The one thing 671 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,799 Speaker 2: can always said to me is look at the ballistics. 672 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense. It does not make sense. It 673 00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 2: could not have happened like that. So they were looking 674 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,440 Speaker 2: for the shirt, the jacket, and the car, any of that. 675 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 2: So in the West Memphis Street trial, they also said 676 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,040 Speaker 2: it was all gone, and then it was actually all 677 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 2: in the West Memphis Police Department. So when I was 678 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 2: in Arkansas, I went there. I mean my two colleagues, 679 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 2: we drove there and we asked for it. But you 680 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 2: can only access that type of evidence if you're a lawyer. 681 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: No, perhaps a lawyer or a crime scene reconstruction expert. 682 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: Anyone listening would like to offer their help, anyone out 683 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: there who would like to speak, it's never too late, 684 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,279 Speaker 1: And if so, we're going to leave ways that you 685 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,400 Speaker 1: can contact Claudia in the episode description, where you can 686 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,279 Speaker 1: also find the documentary that they made for Ken's case. 687 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: And with that we're going to go to closing arguments. 688 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: This is the part of the show that I always 689 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,960 Speaker 1: look forward to, where first of all, I thank you 690 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: from the bottom of my heart on behalf of our 691 00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: whole team. And now I'm going to kick back in 692 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,359 Speaker 1: my chair with my headphones on, just close my eyes 693 00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 1: and listen to anything else you want to share with 694 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: me and our incredible audience. So Claudia, why don't you 695 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: go first and then just hand the mic off to Ken. 696 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 2: Ken was guilty way before he ever stepped foot in 697 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,319 Speaker 2: that court. The police wanted a conviction, and they went 698 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,520 Speaker 2: to any lengths until they got it. And there's just 699 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 2: no way that physically, the ballistics makes sense. There is 700 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: no way that shot came from outside of the car. 701 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,319 Speaker 2: And there is no testimony still holding that hasn't been 702 00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: recanted or proven to be coerced except the testimony of 703 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 2: someone who has a personal stake in this case, someone 704 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 2: who gave various different testimonies that don't corroborate with each other. 705 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 2: Ken has been in jail for twenty nine years, and 706 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 2: twenty nine years later, there is the testimony of one 707 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 2: person who's a cop informant, and that's what's keeping him 708 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 2: in jail, and we just got to get him out. 709 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,640 Speaker 2: It's time. He hasn't seen his kids in early thirty years. 710 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 2: He's fifty six now, he hasn't had a life. He 711 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,440 Speaker 2: went to jail when he was in his twenties. And 712 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 2: he's not guilty, and everyone knows he's not guilty. He's 713 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 2: a victim of a town and a system that has 714 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 2: never been held accountable for what they've done. And it's enough. 715 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 3: Well, like I said, it's just how he did about it, 716 00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,760 Speaker 3: because they can't for getting away with it. I'm wondering 717 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 3: why Alcatol doesn't have a CiU unit. He may he 718 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,319 Speaker 3: of me that you can. Don't think that Alkassol has 719 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 3: also convicted people. Come on, man, I only know maybe 720 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:11,200 Speaker 3: two people. They had been cleared of it, of crime 721 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,840 Speaker 3: they didn't committed. That's the one thing I've ever heard of. 722 00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 3: I know John Brown, and if I'm not mistaken, it 723 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,840 Speaker 3: was Rodney break. Yeah. I'm not going to say. You know, 724 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to turn it into the help of 725 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 3: this case and take this case because I know Arkansas 726 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,400 Speaker 3: needs to be exposed to this. You know, they need 727 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 3: to really be exposed. 728 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Ron for Conviction. You can 729 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: listen to this and all the Lava for Good podcasts 730 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,479 Speaker 1: one week early and ed free by subscribing to Lava 731 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,359 Speaker 1: for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank 732 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 1: our production team, Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well 733 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: as my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Watis, and 734 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,239 Speaker 1: Jeff Cleiber. The music in this production was supplied by 735 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,400 Speaker 1: three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Rowse. Be sure to 736 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,160 Speaker 1: follow us across all social media platforms at Lava for 737 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,200 Speaker 1: Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me 738 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 1: on Instagram at it's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a 739 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 1: production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal 740 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: Company Number One. We have worked hard to ensure that 741 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: all facts reported in this show are accurate. The views 742 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: and opinions expressed by the individuals featured in this show 743 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 1: are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of 744 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: Lava for Good.