WEBVTT - OpenAI Tops $850 Billion Valuation 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:13.760 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.599 from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:20.960 and Ed Lovelow in San Francisco. 0:00:22.680 --> 0:00:25.880 This is Bloomberg Tech. I'm Tim Senovek in New York. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.280 Coming up, Open AI closes one of the biggest funding 0:00:29.360 --> 0:00:33.159 rounds in history. We're gonna have the details. Plus, Anthropic 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:37.240 accidentally releases internal source code behind its claud coding assistant. 0:00:37.760 --> 0:00:40.800 And today is launch day for Artemis two. We are 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.479 on the ground at Kennedy Space Center. We're going to 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.959 get you the latest. First though, a. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:47.600 Check on the markets. 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:51.639 Tech stocks in the green along with other US stocks. 0:00:51.720 --> 0:00:54.440 This as optimism grows that the war in the Middle 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:57.440 East may be nearing a conclusion. Look at what we 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:59.960 see right here on the big board. The NAZAC wondered 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.560 off to a pretty strong start for the quarter, but 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.120 this does come after a relatively bad quarter where it 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.600 fell six percent out of correction territory though we should 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:12.839 note also the S and B five hundred up nine 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:15.200 tens of one percent, following a decline in the most 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:19.080 recent quarter of four point six percent. Oil still above 0:01:19.120 --> 0:01:21.240 one hundred dollars a barrel. This is Brent crude up 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:24.320 one and one sixty six is where we are down 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:28.000 two percent. To talk about a tough quarter for Brent 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.760 crude up a whopping seventy percent. We've got a great 0:01:32.760 --> 0:01:35.920 program coming up. Investors are a little nervous when it 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.040 comes to stocks, but still higher on this first day 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:40.640 in the quarter. I do want to start in Washington, 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.600 where President Trump has arrived at the Supreme Court for 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:47.960 oral arguments in the birthright citizenship case. Bloomberg Washington correspondent 0:01:48.160 --> 0:01:51.880 Tyler Kendall joins us with the latest. Tyler, an unprecedented 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.120 move for a sitting president to attend these arguments at 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:57.480 the Supreme Court. What can you tell us. 0:02:00.040 --> 0:02:00.600 The ATM. 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:03.120 So, we're about an hour into the oral arguments here 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:05.800 at the Supreme Courts. Right now, the US Solicitor General 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:09.280 John Sower is still being questioned by the justices. We 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.480 have to keep in mind this case centers on President 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.359 Trump's executive order that he signed on the first day 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:17.799 in office, seeking to bar US born children of undocumented 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:21.799 immigrants from obtaining US citizenship. And what the justices are 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:24.920 looking at today is the Trump administration's interpretation of the 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.320 citizenship clause under the fourteenth Amendment. We're not going to 0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:31.160 get to walky into it here, but the Trump administration, 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.240 as we're hearing outlined right now by the US Solicitor General, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.680 is essentially arguing that in order for the Amendment to apply, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.840 it requires a relationship of what he is calling full 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:44.200 allegiance to the United States, which the Trump administration says 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.680 does not extend to undocumented immigrants or temporary visitors. We 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:50.320 are about to hear from the challengers in this case. 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.240 The ACLU lawyer is about to be questioned by the 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.720 Supreme Court justices who argues that the Fourteenth Amendment has 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:01.120 a long standing legal precedent of granting's citizenship to those 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:04.000 born on US soil. Now, Tim, we're not expecting to 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.720 get a ruling today from the justices, but rather we're 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.480 looking for those signals on how they may rule. We 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.520 had some indications going into this that some conservative justices 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:16.040 may be skeptical, and that appears to be echoed in 0:03:16.160 --> 0:03:18.760 what we have heard so far. That includes Chief Justice 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.600 John Roberts calling one of the administration's arguments quote quirky. 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.560 Although it does appear the administration has some sympathy. I'll 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:30.960 give one example, Samuel Alito, Conservative Justice, saying that the 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.000 administration is likely correct that when they were ratifying the 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:40.160 fourteenth Amendment, the drafters weren't thinking about undocumented immigration. So 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:41.960 it's going to be something to watch here. But you're 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:44.840 exactly right. This is very unprecedented. The first time you've 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.760 ever seen a sitting US president president inside for oral 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:51.240 arguments as they decide the future of one of his 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:52.000 key policies. 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.320 Bloomberg Tyler Kendall with the latest outside the Supreme Court. 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.000 Let's turn out to the Middle East, where attentions remain 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.200 high as the war with Iran continues. President Trump said 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.240 he'll only consider a ceasefire if the straight of horn 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.440 moves is fully reopened. He is set to address the 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:09.040 nation tonight as questions grow over the path forward and 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.120 the broader economic impact from more. Let's bring in Bloomberg 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.920 Balance of Power co host Kaylee lines. Kaylee, the back 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.719 and forth between Washington and what we're hearing and what 0:04:17.760 --> 0:04:19.640 we're learning out of Iran. There still seems to be 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:21.000 quite a bit of daylight there. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:24.560 What can you tell us, Yeah, there certainly is tim 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.839 which is a repeated pattern in the US. As one thing, 0:04:27.000 --> 0:04:29.520 Iran pushes back. There's also a repeated pattern that the 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:31.719 President says one thing or is reported to be considering 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.000 one thing, and then says another. As we are in 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:36.080 a very different place, it seems regarding the Straight of 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.760 Horn moves than what the Wall Street Journal indicated yesterday, 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:40.919 which was that the President was considering at least wrapping 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:43.799 up military operations without the straight reopening. Now he says 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:46.560 there will be no ceasefire if the Strait is not open. 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:49.000 But Iran is very much pushing back on that. In 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.559 a statement citing the Iranian Revolutionary guardcore in state media, 0:04:52.600 --> 0:04:54.440 they said, and this is a quote, the Straight of 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.080 hor Mows will not be open based on the absurd 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.240 displays of the American President, going on to say, the 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:03.400 situation in the Strait is decisively and dominantly under the 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:07.040 control of the IRGC Navy. Now, of course, the US 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:10.200 military continues to strike that navy and other military targets. 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:12.200 The President alluding to that in a true social post 0:05:12.240 --> 0:05:15.080 today in which he said that until the Strait is open, 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.800 free and clear, the US will continue to blaster on 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:20.880 into oblivion, or as they say, back to the Stone Ages. 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:22.560 So this is still a war that is ongoing, and 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:24.839 the President has indicated it could continue for at least 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.200 a few more weeks. He told reporters in the Oval 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.640 Office last night. It could be two to three weeks more, 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:31.760 and of course the entire nation will hear from him 0:05:31.760 --> 0:05:34.080 at nine pm Eastern Time, also from the Oval in 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:36.960 which he is expected to address the future of this conflict. 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:38.920 Perhaps we will hear from him as to whether or 0:05:38.920 --> 0:05:42.920 not he is considering actually deploying ground forces or another 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.840 surge operation, as we're seeing more assets deployed to the 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:48.960 Middle East, including a third aircraft carrier. Would he be 0:05:49.040 --> 0:05:51.440 doing that if he did not intend to use it? 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:53.320 And we also can expect to hear from him on 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.200 the NATO alliance specifically, at least that's what he's told Reuters, 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.440 that he will be addressing our allies not coming to 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.919 the US AID when it comes to this war in Iran, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.599 after he earlier told the Telegraph that NATO is just 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.760 a paper tiger and that he is seriously considering withdrawing 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:08.720 the United States from it. 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:10.680 Tim a lot for Joe and Kayla to keep an 0:06:10.680 --> 0:06:13.040 eye on keep eye on them. One pm for the 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.840 early edition of Bloomberg Balance of Power Bloomberg Scaye Lions 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.159 joining us from Washington. Well, let's discuss the broader implications 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.039 of these latest developments, especially when it comes to tech markets. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:24.600 I want to bring in Fiona Sencata, senior market analyst 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.240 and City Index for more. Fiona, I want to talk 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.960 about the de escalation trade that we saw and potentially 0:06:30.120 --> 0:06:33.000 that we are seeing today. I should note that traders 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:35.839 at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan are suggesting this was 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:37.400 mostly a squeeze. 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:38.800 What is it in your view? 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:43.400 Is it a squeeze or is it a de escalation trade. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.200 It's a good question. I mean, it's not the first 0:06:46.240 --> 0:06:48.720 time we've seen it, so I think there is reason 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.600 to be cautious about whether it really is a de 0:06:51.880 --> 0:06:54.359 escalation trade or not. I mean, obviously we know the 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.920 Nazak fell almost five percent across March. It moved into 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:04.960 correction territory decline ten out of the past eleven twelve sorry, 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.400 ten out of the past eleven weeks. And it's rare 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:11.040 that we see such negativity towards tech stocks. So you know, 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:14.880 there really has been a lot of cell pressure on 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:18.120 the tech sector. But we are seeing that bounce back. 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:20.680 The daily performance yesterday was the best and almost a year, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.360 and that de escalation trade or squeeze that we're talking 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:25.680 about is holding today. 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:26.040 Now. 0:07:26.120 --> 0:07:29.120 I think there is reason to be cautious here, brickids. 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.960 I mean, although we've heard before from Trump that we 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.680 could be sort of you know, moving towards an end 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.480 to the war, the market I don't think is going 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:41.960 to be convinced until we see that straight off Hornmeuse reopen, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.160 or at least you know, clear signs that we're heading 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:47.120 in that direction. And the reason for that is, brickis, 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:51.640 whilst oil priaces remain high, treasury yields are also going 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.400 to be remaining high, and that just sort of you know, 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.480 takes the the or hits demand for equities, and particularly 0:07:59.600 --> 0:08:01.320 for tech stocks. We do tend to see that they 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.440 come under pressure as yields rise. Now, yields have come 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.840 back from that sort of almost four point five percent 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:08.760 that they are at on Friday to around four point 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:10.760 three today, But as I said, I think we really 0:08:10.800 --> 0:08:15.200 would want to see more concrete signs of that straight 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.440 of Hall Mews reopening in order for this trade to 0:08:18.560 --> 0:08:22.000 really gain much more traction and retake the some more 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:23.120 key levels on the way up. 0:08:23.200 --> 0:08:25.000 I'm so glad you went there, because that's exactly what 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.280 I wanted to talk about. With the brand crewed above 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.800 one hundred dollars a barrel, WTI very close to one 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:31.800 hundred dollars a barrel. I think a lot of people 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:33.640 are scratching their heads saying, wait a second, why are 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:37.640 we seeing a surge in equities, especially tech if oil is. 0:08:37.559 --> 0:08:38.760 Still this high? 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.280 Fiona to what extent our oil prices tied to tech stocks? 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:47.640 Yeah, so, I mean, you wouldn't necessarily immediately link the 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:51.560 two together. But as I said, that drive that elevated 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.120 oil price adds inflationary pressures globally, but particularly if we're 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:58.960 looking here in the US as well, and that just 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:03.800 really does keying those treasury yields elevated now. Also, that 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:07.200 also sort of supports the view that the Federal Reserve 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.520 is going to be taking potentially a more hawkish approach 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.760 to monetary policy. All of this ties into the fact 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.800 that we are seeing less support for tech stocks. Lower 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.880 lower yields are beneficial for stocks, but more importantly for 0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:26.400 tech stocks because they reduce the discount rate apply to 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.040 future earnings, making valuations more attractive. So when we have 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.400 those higher yields, that really does make tech stocks less attractive. So, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:36.360 as I said, you know, I think oil prices are 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.079 going to remain here, and I think interestingly, even if 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.160 we do see that straight of horn we's reopen, it 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:46.199 will take time for oil prices to come down. And 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.360 if they do come down, and when they do come down, 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.440 I guess the actual baseline rate is likely to be 0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:54.120 much higher than what it has been, that sixty dollars 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.080 a barrel, more towards the eighty dollars a barrel, because 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.960 we're going to see it a longer period for the 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.839 that sort of normalization. But also I think there will 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.240 be a risk premium that will remain tied in there. 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:07.960 I want to throw something at you. It's private markets 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:10.559 now but expected to become a public equity this year, 0:10:10.800 --> 0:10:12.559 and that's open AI. We're going to talk to Shrien 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.600 Gafari from our Bloomberg News team. She reported out yesterday 0:10:15.920 --> 0:10:19.320 the eight hundred and fifty two billion dollar valuation after 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:22.440 a one hundred and twenty two billion dollar round. What 0:10:22.480 --> 0:10:27.600 does a potential IPO of open AI and of anthropic 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:31.200 this year due to the broader tech equity market. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:36.280 Now, I think it would be extremely exciting. I think 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.760 there would be a huge amount, unprecedented amount of interest, 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:45.520 and I think it would actually be positive for DAI train. 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.640 I think the AI train has come under pressure. We've 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.680 seen sort of, you know, a lot of questions about 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:56.160 where it's going, whether it is whether the rallies that 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.079 we've seen over the past sort of year, they've obviously 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.480 come into quest I would say over the past six months, 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:05.880 and I think sort of those IPOs going public in 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:12.160 those companies would actually potentially redrive attention and interest into 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:12.720 that trade. 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.640 Fiona Sinkata from City Index. Always good to check in 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.920 with you. Thanks for joining us on Bloomberg Tech. Well 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.679 coming up, as we just mentioned open ai closing one 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.360 of the biggest funding rounds in history. 0:11:24.360 --> 0:11:27.360 We're gonna have the details next. This is Bloomberg Tech. 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.320 Open Ai is now valued at eight hundred and fifty 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.640 two billion dollars. The i company closed a one hundred 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:49.120 and twenty two billion dollar funding round intended to help 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:53.319 with its costly push for more chips, data centers, and talent. 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.720 Let's get the details with Bloomberg's Ai reporter Sharen Gafari, Shuran, 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:00.720 those are big numbers. I liken the piece you said, 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.320 this funding is by any measure, one of the largest 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:07.160 transactions in history dwarfing not just previous fundraising rounds by 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:11.280 fellow privately back startups, but also acquisitions and IPOs. Is 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:14.200 this it for open A before it goes public. 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.360 We don't know yet, but it definitely could be. You know, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:22.120 in a press call with open Ai CFO, she talked 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:26.400 about how this helps them have maximum flexibility. If they 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.400 want to remain private for a little longer, they could. 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:31.679 If they want to go public, they also could. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:32.800 You know. 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.319 Obviously, we are heading into a year where we are 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:42.040 expecting some AI IPOs, including potentially open AI. However, you know, 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:46.360 given a the macro uncertainty and changing conditions and be 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.079 the need for these companies to prove a very solid 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.680 path to profitability at least in the future as a IPO, 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.880 it's obviously too soon to say exactly when or if 0:12:56.920 --> 0:12:58.160 these companies will this year. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.320 Okay, these companies that includes Thropic. I just want to 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:03.920 flick out another piece that you wrote, this one along 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.760 with colleague Mark Anderson, about Anthropic accidentally exposing its system 0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:12.319 behind claud code human error in this case, what exactly happened? 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.600 Yeah, so the company acknowledged that this was human error, 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:20.320 not a sort of hack. However, this is source code, 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.560 so this is the underlying material that goes into the 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:27.640 claud code product. We're already seeing some users try to 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.360 replicate that code now and put it out there, and 0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:34.240 that is obviously that is not a good outcome for 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:37.080 the company. So it raises questions about what went wrong, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.680 how they're going to stop that again, especially given earlier 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.240 in the past week they had another incident with a 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.199 leaked another kind of human error leaked blog. 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.000 Post Bloomberg shreen Gafari from our AI team. Check out 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:50.480 her reporting and the entire teams reporting on the Bloomberg 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:52.559 terminal and at Bloomberg dot Com. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:52.960 Well. 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.840 At the same time, shares of OpenAI i've actually fallen 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:59.439 out of favor in the secondary markets. Investors have been 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:01.560 looking to offer load as much as six hundred million 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.959 dollars worth of shares, but finding no buyers, instead seeing 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:09.560 demand surging for rival Anthropic. Bloomberg's Hemaparmer covers hedge funds 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.640 and she joins us. Now, so how about what's going 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:13.320 on here, because it seems like there's this disconnect at 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.120 least with the latest funding round that I just talked 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.640 about with sharene and what you're seeing or what hedge 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:20.560 funds are seeing in the secondary market, what can you 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:21.240 tell us So. 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.400 The secondary market's really interesting and what they're paying attention 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:27.760 to right now is this evaluation gap. So the gap 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.640 between the three hundred and eighty billion dollar valuation for 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:34.200 Anthropic and this eight hundred and fifty two billion dollar 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.480 valuation for open AI. And if you are thinking that 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.760 Anthropic is going to have around in the future and 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:42.920 is going to close that gap and it could be 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:46.760 sizeably bigger, you might be looking to snap up Anthropic 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:52.920 shares now to get in early as that nap, as 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:55.800 that gap potentially narrows. And so when you look at 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.040 the two options, open AI may seem in less of 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.640 a favor compared to the hot we're seeing Anthropic shares 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.040 in the secondary going for a valuation of six hundred 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:04.800 million or more. 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:08.040 It's incredible. I mean, it just shows how quickly things 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:10.360 can shift. And we did see last week and move 0:15:10.400 --> 0:15:13.680 away at least from Sora for open AI, maybe streamlining 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:18.239 before an IPO and also really leaning into what anthropics 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:20.480 bread and butter is the idea of coding and selling 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.280 to enterprise customers. What's amazing to me is really how 0:15:23.360 --> 0:15:26.320 quickly this has shifted, and wonder if it can actually 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.040 shift back a different way anytime soon. How quickly do 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.480 you things move in the secondary market. 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:33.560 So the secondary market moves slower obviously than stocks would do, 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:37.600 but you can see changes within a few days, within 0:15:37.640 --> 0:15:40.760 a few weeks. When you look at companies like open Ai, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.800 there are some concerns about the spend and this raise 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.440 will help to absorb some of those costs. But when 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.760 you look at the expenditure that some of these companies 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:51.840 are making, an ai huge costs. And then when you 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.360 look at open Ai, these leading into enterprise a little 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.720 bit slower than Anthropic, but not to say, I mean 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.040 they've raised one hundred and twenty two billion dollars from investors. 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:03.640 The other thing to think about with the secondary is 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.600 sometimes existing investors may seek liquidity, not because they're souring 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:09.440 on the company, but they just either want some extra 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.960 money to play with, or you know, they see their 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.080 position as already sizable within their book. 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.680 Maybe you got to buy a house or a plane 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.080 or something I don't know. From Bloomberg, Sama Palmer, thanks 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.480 so much, shot out having a story on the terminal. 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.680 We got some breaking news right now, billionaire Elon Musk. 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:31.600 SpaceX has filed confidentially for an IPO. Let's check out 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.160 more about timing with that in just a few minutes. 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:36.440 We're going to have more details on that coming up. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.400 In the meantime, a conversation on AI's expanding role in cybersecurity. 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:43.600 We're going to break with ARMD and CEO Kevin Nndia. 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:59.120 That's next on Bloomberg Tech. SpaceX has filed for an IPO. 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.400 Some breaking news. Let's get to our own Ed Ludlow, 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:05.679 who's at Kennedy Space Center in Florida, and this story 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.679 that you wrote along with Bailey Lipschaltz. JASEX said a 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.280 file confidentially for an IPO ahead of AI rivals. What 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.000 can you tell us about timing? What did you learn? 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:14.560 Yeah? 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:17.040 I mean the main thing and the important point of 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.520 us confirming via sources that the paperwork is in is 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.480 it probably does put SpaceX on track for a June IPO. 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.240 There has been lots of reporting about will they or 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.440 won't they you know, as a starter gun moment for 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.480 the broader IPO window. But of course, the mechanics of 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.520 what they're trying to do raising fifty billion dollars plus 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.480 maybe seventy five billion dollars at the high end at 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:43.760 evaluation of one point seventy five trillion, it's going to 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.240 take a very large coalition of bankers and banks to 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.840 run that book in what will be the biggest IPO 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.840 in history on a dollar raise or valuation perspective. So 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.399 we've known this was coming, but you know, it is 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.520 a big psychological moment for the markets that it's in, 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:03.920 and and you it sets SpaceX up to execute on 0:18:03.960 --> 0:18:06.040 the groundwork that they've been putting into place for a 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:06.520 little while. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:07.560 Now. It's a great piece. 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.080 We're going to have more from Ed Ludlow from Kennedy 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.560 Space Center a little later in the program. Breaking news 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:16.080 coming from Ed and Bailey. Check out their story on 0:18:16.240 --> 0:18:19.520 the Bloomberg terminal for more. Well, as we mentioned, Anthropic 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.320 has accidentally exposed the source code behind its AI coding 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.320 assistant Claude. In an emailed statement, Anthropics said no customer 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.399 data or credentials were involved and that the issue was 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:33.040 caused by human error and not a security breach. The 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.800 incident comes as the company is pushing back against a 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:39.760 US government designation labeling it a potential supply chain risk. 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:42.159 Joining us now to discuss the role of AI in 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.480 cybersecurity is Kevin Mandia, CEO of our Modern It's an 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.240 AI platform that simulates real world attacks to identify and 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.920 fix vulnerabilities. And Kevin, that's exactly where I want to 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:56.280 start the vulnerabilities of this with that anthropic story that 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.920 I talked about with Sharen and just mentioned this vulnerability. 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.400 It seems to be as a result of user error, 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.280 not necessarily an attack. How do you look at that 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:08.800 in the context right of overall vulnerabilities when it comes 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.400 to the threat landscape today, Well. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.640 No question, whenever you lose source code, there's a reputational hit. 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.280 But that's you know, when I looked at this case, 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.080 they didn't lose customer data, they didn't lose customer credentials, 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.760 they didn't lose customer model weights. And that's where the 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.600 magic happens when you use agents, because agents have total 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:31.160 recall on your data and how you purpose those agents. 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.880 So this is one of those things that happens to companies. 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:35.840 Whenever you have a human in the loop, you have 0:19:35.880 --> 0:19:40.600 a process that's potentially frail or degrades over time, so 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:43.480 they're going to have to manage through the reputational. 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:43.800 Hit on this. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.600 But at the same time frame, I'm a cybersecurity expert 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.520 and I look at this. Whenever you lose source code, 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.400 there will be folks that scour that looking at ways 0:19:52.520 --> 0:19:55.399 to how does this software work and how do we 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.240 take advantage of it, maybe in this case with prompt injection. 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.439 So all you're really going to get out of this 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.720 tim is probably a faster release cycle because now you 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:05.960 have millions of people looking at your code that you 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.720 never intended to have them look at it. So you're 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.679 going to have a fast release cycle should there be 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:15.040 any identified vulnerabilities from the extra million sets of eyes 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:16.560 that are looking at your source code. 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.040 You were the founder and CEO of Mandian before it 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.280 was sold to people Cloud, your former CEO of Fire. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:25.359 You have been doing this for decades. This era that 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.080 we live in right now with soon to be everybody 0:20:29.160 --> 0:20:31.720 having an AI agent that can act on behalf of them, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:37.119 and also seemingly perhaps bad actors having AI agents that 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.000 can act on them how does that look out there 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:43.119 today compared with other times in this industry? Are we 0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:44.919 more vulnerable now than ever before? 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.560 That's a great question, Tim. I think we're going through 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:50.639