WEBVTT - Why Manners? 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.200 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.040 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and 0:00:14.080 --> 0:00:17.360 there's Charles w Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there, 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.439 and we're all being very dainty and mindful and considerate 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:22.680 and this. 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:26.840 Is stuff you should know. That's right. And another great 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:31.840 article from Libya. She got right to the meat of 0:00:31.840 --> 0:00:33.360 the matter. So maybe we should too. 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:37.800 Sure, Okay, I had about six seven minutes of discourse 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:40.600 on my own personal experience with manners. But okay, hey, 0:00:40.600 --> 0:00:43.920 Pepper thows in, I don't really have that, I know. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:49.280 So we are talking about manners, and essentially we should 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.760 probably define it because manners are exactly what you think of, 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.160 but what you think can also slide into what really 0:00:57.400 --> 0:00:59.960 is considered etiquette, which we'll talk a little bit about later. 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.959 But manners can vary quite dramatically from locality to locality. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:09.600 They can be regional, national, cultural, household the household. They 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:13.360 can differ within a neighborhood, like, for example, some houses 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.440 in neighborhood will ask you to take off your shoes 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:17.240 when you go in the house. 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.600 Others are like, why would. 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:20.840 You do that? 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.280 That would be considered manners one way or the other, 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.240 especially the taking off of your shoes thing. So it's 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:31.800 kind of like an expectation of polite behavior that is 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:35.520 culturally bound. Typically that's what manners. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:39.399 Are, and a time era based it. 0:01:39.360 --> 0:01:43.040 Can be, for sure. But some Chuck Olivia cited almost 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.920 out of the gate an Egypsian vizier who's a political 0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:52.720 advisor from the Furonic era. His name was ta Hotep, 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:56.200 not to be confused with Bubba Hotep, but ta Hotep, 0:01:57.080 --> 0:02:00.960 and he in his resignation letter, essentially his retirement letter 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:05.920 to the pharaoh, gave all of this advice to young 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:09.000 people in particular, but it was just basically life advice. 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.480 But it was generally advice on manners, and it is 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.960 it holds up today, like four thousand years later. 0:02:17.080 --> 0:02:19.120 Some of it does. One of the pieces of advice 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:23.840 was to stay away from a battle of insults. Good advice, yep. 0:02:24.360 --> 0:02:25.959 Avoid gossip that's another good one. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:26.560 Yeah. 0:02:26.760 --> 0:02:29.760 One that's a little questionable is eat whatever a superior 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:30.720 offers you. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.280 Especially if they mash it in your mouths, they eat it. 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:34.160 Stupid cow. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.600 Yeah, no, I agree, but they can stand the test 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.240 of time, for sure. But sometimes they're very locked in time. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:45.080 But the difference between manners and etiquette even though you can, 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:48.480 you know, you can use those interchangeably generally. But etiquette 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.520 is a little more formalized, like set of rules, and 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:56.160 you'll often see them like published in books, and a 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:01.320 lot of times it's tied to very ritualized, formalized stuff 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:05.480 like you know, in the King's court, in royal courts, 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:11.000 at fine formal dining meals and stuff like that, So 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:12.040 it's a little more formal. 0:03:12.360 --> 0:03:14.960 Yeah, Manners are another way to put it in. Manners 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:18.160 are something that are ingrained from you by your culture, from. 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.800 Your early childhood on. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.880 Etiquette is something you kind of actually have to actively 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:26.119 seek out to learn, like whether it's from a book 0:03:26.200 --> 0:03:28.120 or from a finishing school or something like that. 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:29.600 Yeah, or you have like a. 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:32.400 Spinster aunt who doesn't have anything else to do but 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.320 browbeat you into keeping your elbows off the table tammy, 0:03:37.520 --> 0:03:38.360 dammy oh man. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:41.560 So one thing that you're going to see pop up 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.000 a lot. And we probably don't even have to mention 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:46.640 all of these examples because Libby is always so great 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.200 at our cup always runneth over when she gives us stuff. 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.080 But one repeated thing that you'll see is a lot 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:55.920 of philosophers talk about this kind of stuff, and most 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:59.520 of them agree, And most people agree that manners aren't 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.760 just it's not just, hey, be polite to people. It's 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:05.720 this is sort of the these are sort of the 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:10.840 unwritten rules that keep us functioning as a civilized society. 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.760 Yeah, high and low, like some are really really important, 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:19.880 like prohibitions on violence, especially random on expected violence against 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:23.479 other people. That's tip very better falls under Yeah, it does. 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.600 It falls under the category of manners technically. And then 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:31.600 also it can be much more evolved in just designed 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.760 to make life more pleasant, like say opening doors for 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:38.680 people you know, man or woman, but the person following 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:41.279 you holding the door for them, that's mannerfol It just 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.720 makes it nicer than the shutting the door on somebody's 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.680 face who's coming in behind you. And that If you 0:04:48.720 --> 0:04:54.080 put all that together, manners essentially hold civilization together. They're 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.480 the glue that keeps civilization civilized. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:01.160 Yeah. There was one modern day philosopher that Lyvia found 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:06.440 named Anya Barringer, who said, it's sort of like it 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.800 keeps you pro social and keeps your attention focused on 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:14.839 making sure other people are doing fine. And an example 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.480 that Olivia gab was like, you know, let's say you're 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.080 throwing a dinner party at your house, and what you 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.080 really want to do, though, halfway through that dinner party 0:05:22.160 --> 0:05:24.479 maybe is good to bed because you're just beat, But 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.839 you don't because that would not be mannerly. So what 0:05:26.880 --> 0:05:29.480 you're doing is you're focusing on everyone else and making 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.760 sure their drink is filled, that they had all they 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:33.760 want to eat, and you're maybe clearing the dishes and 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.279 doing all that stuff. So you're focused, and it's all 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:39.760 under the umbrella of good manners. But what you're really 0:05:39.760 --> 0:05:43.920 doing is focusing on pro social behaviors. 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:46.159 Right, And so some people that now we enter like 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:50.200 where some people are really critical of that. Like some 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.200 people would argue, you're really tired, go to bed, Why 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.560 are you Why are you sacrificing your health conceivably just 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:58.479 to keep some people you may or may not even 0:05:58.520 --> 0:06:03.960 particularly like satisfied. Sure you would hope, but I mean, 0:06:04.360 --> 0:06:08.599 somebody always brings tammy, I know. So there's a guy, 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.600 a philosopher named Diogenes. He was one of the founders 0:06:11.600 --> 0:06:14.160 of the school of Cynics way back in the day 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:19.160 in ancient Greece I believe in the third century. Yeah, 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:23.120 about twenty three hundred years ago. In Diogenies, he dedicated 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:27.240 his life to pointing out the hypocrisy that manners generate 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:31.880 in people. He saw manners as a forced mask that 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:35.600 people had to wear that hid their true cells from 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.240 other people. And he wasn't saying you should go around 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.080 and like hit other people if you want to, Like, 0:06:41.200 --> 0:06:44.760 he married the thing with morality, like you needed to 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.240 be moral and upstanding, but you didn't need to be, 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:54.239 you know, deferential to some superior because they're superior because 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.039 society says they are. They're no more superior to you 0:06:57.160 --> 0:07:00.520 than you are to them. That was diogenes whole thing. 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.160 And he hated manners so much so that he engaged 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.880 in some pre shocking behavior in public just to kind 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:07.679 of prove his point. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:11.760 Yeah, as the stories go, he would masturbate and urinate 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.920 in public and defecate. Yeah. So I don't know when 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.440 you talk about like he really believed in like upstanding morals. 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:23.200 Sure, but his point was if you're doing something in 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.440 private with no problem, you should be able to do 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:28.040 it in public. You're hiding your true self if you 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:31.960 don't masturbate in public essentially was Diogeny's point, and as 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.480 a result, people don't typically take up Diogeny's point, and 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:40.360 in fact, he's very frequently considered an exception to the rule. 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.240 Like the fact that he railed so hard against manners 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:47.760 and just basically it seemed like a weirdo to everybody 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.800 else kind of shows the importance of manners and keeping 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:54.960 civilized society together. Like people are like, okay, yeah, I 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:58.360 will kind of not respond to a jerk who's you know, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:04.040 socially my social better in exchange for not having to 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.440 walk down the street and watch everybody masturbating in. 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:11.920 Public, right right. Even the great philosophers over time that 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.440 have sort of had a problem with the really formal, 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:20.960 hoity toity, courtly type of stuff and that kind of extravagance, 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:25.400 most of them even still agreed that like a basic 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.720 level of manners and politeness is important to hold society together, 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:31.480 and if it was, if we didn't have that stuff, 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.600 society would just crumble. Where it can get really tricky, 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:37.559 and we'll talk you know about this here and there 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:43.320 is when you're you get too into policing someone else's manners, 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:50.320 or when you're using that as sort of a I guess, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.559 sort of a dog whistle to talk about like the 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.840 quote unquote wrong kinds of people and that kind of 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.240 thing that can get very squirmy and thorny. 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.160 Right, We also should say, and we'll get into it 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.960 a little more later, it's manners are culturally bound. Like 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:08.920 what's what's good manners in one society is not necessarily 0:09:09.000 --> 0:09:13.840 easily translated to another society. Olivia used the example of 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.920 the Joho Jojo Nazi Johoansi. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:18.440 That's what I'm going with. 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:24.319 Joe Ho Nazi people of Namibia, and they're hunter gatherers, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:28.280 and they have a tradition where the hunter who brings 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.840 back meat is often its typically criticized for it there 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.320 not being enough meat for the meat being of like 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:39.040 so so quality, and they're doing that to like knock 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:41.240 them down a peg so he doesn't feel any more 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.440 superior to anybody else. And you actually see this in 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:48.160 like the British Isles. It's a real tradition, not necessarily 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:51.520 of criticizing the meat a hunter brings back, but it 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:56.760 could happen and more just kind of like social restrictions 0:09:56.760 --> 0:09:58.599 like getting too big for your bridges, I think is 0:09:58.600 --> 0:09:59.880 a way to put it. 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.880 Yeah, And a lot of the European style of etiquette 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:06.080 is historically a lot of it is based around these 0:10:06.120 --> 0:10:08.800 meal times and very formal set meal times that you 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.040 sit down all together and you eat this big meal, 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:13.520 and a lot of cultures through history don't do that 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:17.320 kind of thing. Native Americans didn't, or you know, many 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.760 tribes didn't sit and have some big meal. Their jam 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.280 was to like, hey, I got a stew on the 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.360 pot at all hours of the day, So if you 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:28.600 show up in my place, I might offer you some 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.600 food you might want to eat. If you're hungry, then 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:32.959 that's great. So we don't have that kind of formal thing. 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:38.079 So that's obviously going to cause some friction and awkwardness 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.719 when Europeans come over and meet Native Americans and say, 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:44.439 we're going to make our way your way. 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.720 So I was reading about that and apparently that social 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.120 standard for manners for offering food and having like a 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:54.120 perpetual pot of stew going was that held up during 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:57.520 lean times winter like it didn't matter how little food 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.640 you had, you still were expected to have that pot 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:01.360 of you for for visitors. 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.440 Yeah, and I think if the TV show Reservation Dogs 0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:07.720 is accurate, and I believe it is to modern day 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.520 Native American culture. They on that show, they were they 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.040 eat a lot, and they offer each other food a lot. 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:15.040 Yeah. Yeah. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.760 And there's another thing about offering food is there's a 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:24.360 lot of cultures that expect you to decline being offered 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.560 additional food. But there's that's part of a larger kind 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:34.800 of dance where you the the host continues to offer 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.680 multiple times, and then after a set amount of times, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.560 you can then and are actually expected to to say, yes, 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:44.160 that would be great, thanks, I'll take I'll take some more. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.319 Yeah. That that can be a big thing in the South, Uh, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.559 offering you food over and over or like. 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:49.880 Uh. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:53.600 I've experienced that with Italian families in the Northeast. Uh. 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.320 You know, sit down, keep eating right, and you know, 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.640 I'm usually happy, happy to oblige. I don't want to 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:01.120 be rude. 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.120 Sure, who would be? You want to take a break, Yeah. 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:17.080 Let's take an early break before we dive into europe 0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:31.840 salvation no dovish no. All right. So, as we say, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.680 manners and etiquette has changed here and there over the years, 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:37.920 and as we'll see a lot of times when there's 0:12:37.920 --> 0:12:41.360 a big sort of like a big war or big 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.680 social change or a big change in power or something 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:46.840 like that. A lot of times you'll see these etiquette 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:52.079 rules changing. And there's a book called The History of 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.960 Manners written in nineteen thirty nine by Norbert Elias that 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:02.160 said that, you know, medieval era through the nineteenth century, 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.320 there was a big change in that. That's when people 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.079 started to care a little bit how they were viewed 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:11.720 by other people. They started to feel shame for doing 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.840 things for the first time. Yeah, and they started to 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.480 say things like, you know, it's really gross to see 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.360 you blow your nose at the table or to go 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.520 like to get up from your meal and go urinate 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.160 in the corner or something like that, and like we 0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.319 need we should keep our bodily functions to ourselves. 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:27.880 Yeah. 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.480 So around the time of the Renaissance, the first guides 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.000 to manners started to come out, and that was a 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:40.960 good example of social organization in upheaval. The Renaissance was, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:43.200 so it makes sense that this would be one of 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.280 the first guides to manners. In Europe, it was called 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.880 the sivila tate morum purillium, which means civility of childish manners. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:52.760 Yeah. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.040 It was written by Erasmus, the famous Dutch philosopher, back 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.760 in fifteen thirty, and he took some time out from 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.760 translating the New Testament to write down manners, which basically 0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:07.160 was like, Hey, don't stir gravy with your fingers, don't 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:12.320 blow your nose on the tablecloth at the table. Actually, 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:14.920 just don't blow your nose on any tablecloth anywhere in 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:15.920 any part of the house. 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:16.640 Yeah. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.720 And then if they showed spoons a lot, there would 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:23.360 be communal soup, so you would taste the soup with 0:14:23.400 --> 0:14:26.400 the spoon, and he instructed, okay, after that, wipe it 0:14:26.440 --> 0:14:30.320 with a napkin after your use of that spoon before 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:34.000 you put it back, which seems highly civilized for fifteen thirty. 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:35.680 Can I cover this other one? 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.000 Yes? Please. 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.160 It's a pretty great trick still holds up today. If 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.800 you have to fart at the table, cover up the 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:45.440 sound of the fart with a heavy cough. 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:47.120 I can't cough that long. 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.600 Well, And to me, those two things are sort of 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.320 I don't know if I can do those things at 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.080 the same time, because they both engage the same mechanisms 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:58.640 for me, right, I don't know that'd be weird. I've 0:14:58.640 --> 0:14:59.120 never tried. 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.360 Instead, suck in a bunch of air in pucker your 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.680 bottom hole. That's my advice. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.600 Yeah, I'm gonna try that at some point, not at 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:12.000 a dinner table. I don't fart at the dinner table 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:12.320 at all. 0:15:12.400 --> 0:15:15.720 Good for you, Chuck, You're really Erasmus would be proud. 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.760 In the eighteenth century, in the royal courts, things got 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:23.120 a little more sophisticated. Etiquette got a little more rigid. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.240 They you know, the word etiquette actually came from this 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.480 time period. Comes from France, obviously, and there are different 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.240 stories that it came from the word for ticket or 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.480 a label. Some people you might find online that it 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.800 came from signs keep off the grass, signs that King 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.600 Louis had at Versailles, even though Livia said she couldn't 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:48.000 find a lot of really great things to back that up. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.760 But Marie Antoinette apparently did have a nickname for her 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:59.920 French aristocratic retainer, Madame Etiquette, because she was always saying, like, 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:01.800 you gotta do this, you got to do this right. 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.240 They also did eventually start printing instructions for how to 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.880 behave at court, and that really follows in the vein 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.640 of a label or a ticket. So that also kind 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:18.680 of later on, I think, after the fact, became etiquette 0:16:18.840 --> 0:16:22.360 a name for that. It didn't make its way into 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:27.240 English until I think the seventeen hundreds of mid seventeen hundreds, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.720 and there was an Earl of Chesterfield, the fourth to 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.200 be exact. His name was Philip Dormer Stanhope, and he 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.320 was very famous for a series of letters that he 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.480 wrote to his illegitimate son. He was a minister in 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:46.520 Holland for the English Crown, and while there he fathered 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:48.600 a son, and he kept in touch and basically tried 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:53.680 to explain to his son how to behave in civilized society. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.600 And it ended up being, if you put all the 0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:59.320 letters together, a pretty funny, witty but also very insightful 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:03.200 treat us on manners. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.280 At the time, Yeah, it was kind of long distance fathering. 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.800 He talked about Libya. Is quite a few of these. 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:13.359 These are pretty good, but long talkers. That's a pretty 0:17:13.400 --> 0:17:16.760 fun one. If one of these unmerciful talkers lays hold 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:20.199 of you, hear him with patience and at least seeming attention, 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:21.840 if he is worth obliging. 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.719 Yeah or yeah, don't carve meat to so much that 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:30.240 you bespatter the company with the sauce or turn overturn 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.760 the glasses in your neighbor's pockets. So just don't, you know, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.040 just be cool when you're carving meat, I think. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:36.680 Is what he was saying. 0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:38.040 Yeah, that's pretty good. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:38.879 What else? 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.280 This one I don't quite get, although I think I 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.440 do maybe for the time period. In scandal, as in robbery, 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:50.119 the receiver is always thought as bad as the thief. 0:17:50.359 --> 0:17:53.399 So I get that he's talking about gossip. So like 0:17:53.520 --> 0:17:56.600 the gossiper, you know, is no better than the person 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:57.720 that they're gossiping about. 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.840 No, no, I think the person listening to the gossip too. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.760 Well, everyone's bad then, right. But what I don't get 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.399 is comparing it to a robbery, Like if you're. 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.760 The fence and you're getting the stolen items, you're no 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.840 better than the thief who actually went in and stole 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:13.320 the items. 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:15.800 Oh, the receiver is the fence, Okay, I get it out. 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:19.960 Yeah yeah, like Redfoot, Yeah yeah. Another one that I 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.040 thought was pretty interesting was be not dark nor mysterious, 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:25.960 And he was basically saying, like, be friendly to everybody, 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:29.119 but be careful how much information you share, and that 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.320 is a long standing piece of advice for manners. It 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:37.080 goes back to Yeah, it goes back to Betahoe Tep 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:41.400 who basically said, like, when you're speaking to your equal, 0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:45.000 you can be better than them by being silent. Like, really, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.200 watch how much information you share with those people. And 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.159 the Philip Sandhope was widely criticized, I'm not sure if 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:55.119 it was in his lifetime or not when his letters 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.200 came out and were published for being a very cynical 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.840 person who was also you know, shrewdly tuned in to 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:08.400 manners and how to act courtly. But that really it's 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:12.800 he exposed it for its worst kind of use, which 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:19.640 is social jockeying, essentially trying trying to get ahead by 0:19:20.080 --> 0:19:25.919 hijacking the prescribed set of manners or rituals or etiquette 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.960 that that anybody can engage in. And if you do 0:19:29.000 --> 0:19:31.800 it right and you're charming enough and you peer sincere 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.439 on the surface, even the greatest psychopath around can become 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:41.160 very wealthy and powerful thanks to etiquette. Following etiquette manners. 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.240 Yeah, I mean that's a little tricky though, because a 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.240 lot of people have labeled that very thing sort of 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.720 the great democratizer. If you're someone who is of a 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.040 you know at the time and whatever culture you're in, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.440 like in a what's looked at as a lower class, 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.800 and you can learn these etiquette rules and pass yourself 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.840 off physy upper class, then it levels the playing field totally. 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:03.520 It does both. 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:04.680 Yeah, it's interesting. 0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:07.639 They're not mutually exclusive. It's just some of those people 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:13.040 can have ill intentions or be insincere jerks. Other people 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:16.360 are like, I really want to do better for myself 0:20:16.440 --> 0:20:19.320 and there's not easy access to college. This is how 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.280 to how to get ahead in life, So I'm going 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:23.560 to go learn this stuff and be earnest about it. 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.919 Yeah, I mean that's a common I'm not gonna call 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:28.360 it a trope, but just sort of a common theme 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.199 and a lot of movies of someone sort of conning 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:37.720 their way into the elite society, whether it's oh gosh. 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:41.800 Secret of My Success, Short Circuit Too. 0:20:42.280 --> 0:20:48.240 Six Degrees of Separation, or I can't think of Grifters 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:49.040 is even doing that. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:50.520 I've never seen it. 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.160 Oh wow, Grifters is great, But you know, I can't 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:59.080 think of like an old sort of English movie version 0:20:59.080 --> 0:21:01.479 of that. But I know, oh, like tricking your way 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:02.960 into court was a common theme. 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:06.199 What about Barry Linden. Oh, yeah, there you go, thank you, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:07.560 thank you everybody? 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:09.680 What agreatment? Did you hear the applaude? 0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:12.000 Yeah in my head. So. 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:20.080 And then in the United States, the initial adoption of 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:25.760 manners and etiquette in particular was basically European exports important 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.800 to the States from very early on. And it wasn't 0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:33.480 until the nineteen twenties that well, I shouldn't say that, 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.440 it wasn't until the nineteen twenties that the Americans were 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:42.399 exposed to the formal etiquette that had developed over the 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:47.880 years on its own in America through Emily Post. Now, 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:51.439 it had been developing from say the mid nineteenth century on. 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.160 It basically was attached to a rocket ship during the 0:21:55.200 --> 0:21:59.000 Second Industrial Revolution in the United States and the ensuing 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:03.080 Gilded Age, because there was suddenly a lot of very 0:22:03.080 --> 0:22:05.560 wealthy people who may or may not have had any 0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.280 wealth whatsoever before. And so all of these all this etiquette, 0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:11.879 these rules of etiquette started to develop and pass along, 0:22:12.320 --> 0:22:15.600 and Emily Post was raised in that world, and she, 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:20.680 as I think a forty something divorce a sat down 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:23.920 and put pen to paper and wrote what became the 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:26.320 most successful etiquette book of all time. 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.760 Yeah, in nineteen twenty two, Etiquette in Society, not a 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:36.600 colon Everybody a comma, Etiquette in Society and business and 0:22:36.640 --> 0:22:40.240 politics and at home. These days that would still have 0:22:40.280 --> 0:22:42.800 a colon and some dumb long subtitle. 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:48.040 It'd be nothing. It be instead of commas to be colon, colon, colon, colon. 0:22:47.680 --> 0:22:52.119 Everywhere, aka how to act right right. But you know, 0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:54.320