1 00:00:01,080 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: Podcast playground. Well, I'm buzzsnight and welcome to another Nashville 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: edition of Taking a Walk. Nashville is all about the 3 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: artistry of the song, the storytelling, the emotion, and there's 4 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: one man who has his finger on the pulse of 5 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: the songwriting community. Bart Herbison is the executive director of 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 1: the Nashville Songwriters Association International, the world's largest not for 7 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: profit songwriters trade association. The Association serves aspiring and professional 8 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: songwriters in all genres of music and also owns the 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: amazing Bluebird Cafe. Bart. Welcome to Taking a Walk. Thank you. 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: I was excited about this, but doubly excited when a 11 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: couple of old radio dogs showed up in here. I'm 12 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,840 Speaker 1: surprised we got to the podcast. I loved our visit 13 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: before this started, and so because I'm an old radio 14 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: dog myself. Radio WTPR, Paris, Tennessee. We treat people right, 15 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: and so I started there when I was sixteen years 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: old in nineteen seventy three. Why did you do a 17 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 1: legal id for the station? I'll do my favorite station 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 1: because I hated our call letters, fitty six w hb 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: Q memphists. You know, so I love I still love 20 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 1: those call letters. We did turn our fmto KQ one 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 1: O five, which was a lot hipper and we went pop. 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: So do you remember what song hook you and made 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 1: you forever a fan? Absolutely between four and five years old, 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: my late uncle Billy Pulling calls me in and called 25 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: me Barty says, sit down and he and to this 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: day I have a tattoo on my left shoulder TCB 27 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,560 Speaker 1: with a lightning bolt because my first record was That's 28 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: When Your Heartaches Began by Elvis Presley, and it literally 29 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 1: between four and five changed my life. That was it. 30 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: And fast forward later on, starting with that DJ role, 31 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: I gravitated towards the songwriter. So everybody read the liner notes, 32 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: but I read who wrote the songs, and it just 33 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: so happened a guy my same age coming up became 34 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:13,399 Speaker 1: a very famous songwriter. Part of the reason it led 35 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 1: me to this place. Yeah, Jimmy Stewart was his name. Wow, 36 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: not that Jimmy Stewart. But brotherly love Keith Whitley and 37 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: Earl Thomas Connelly, Toby Keith, a little less talk, a 38 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: lot more action, those kinds of things, and hand in 39 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 1: hand we're brothers to this day. And that's how I 40 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,919 Speaker 1: knew about songwriting. That's why I cared, and I started 41 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 1: hanging out with songwriters when I still worked on Capitol Hill. 42 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: And if I could be a songwriter, I wouldn't be 43 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,520 Speaker 1: on this podcast. I'm a great editor of songs, but 44 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: the page is blank as a starting point for me. 45 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: So I've always managed to be around it somehow. And 46 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: it goes back to that Elva song w TPR and 47 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: Jimmy Allen Stewart. Thank God, I was told I remember 48 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: this actually happening in my life, but it was something 49 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: my late mom told me about that. We were in 50 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 1: church one Sunday and I think I was two years old, 51 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: and there's a song by Fabian called Turn Me Loose. 52 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: I started singing in church and the rest is history. 53 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: And the next day your hair was sweped back to 54 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: why wasn't it? Hey? God, my father cut it all off, 55 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: which is a whole other Psychosis podcast that we don't 56 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: have to get into right now. So Bart talk about 57 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: the many important tears of advocacy work that NSAI does. Well, 58 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: let's go back fifty five years and a guy named 59 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 1: Eddie Miller the Great Country Standard, Please release Me, Let 60 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: Me Go, and Ddie thought there needed to be a 61 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: voice for this profession. There were only eighty songwriters total, 62 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: eighty in this entire town, and he convinced forty one 63 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: others to really risk their career because even folks within 64 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: the industry didn't want to see the songwriters organize. But 65 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: they picked a great issue, which was to get the 66 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 1: songwriter's names on records. It happened sometimes, but it was 67 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: not an industry model, and it took us four years, 68 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: mainly making sure the publishers could get the label copy 69 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: over there quick enough. Now it takes five years to 70 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: get a song's cut back. Then it could be five days. 71 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:32,920 Speaker 1: And in nineteen seventy one we announced that every major 72 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: American label would put the songwriter's names on the record. 73 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: And it's really what empowered this group to go forward. 74 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: So the advocacy all stem from that fast forward. Recently, 75 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 1: there are two big things. The first was in twenty eighteen. 76 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,040 Speaker 1: It was called the Music Modernization Act, and we passed 77 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: it unanimously, and it was typically copyrights you got to 78 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: have agreement on because one sentate or can stop a bill, 79 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: and it's very hard. But every fifteen or twenty years 80 00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: because of that reason we advance the cause a little bit. 81 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: The Music Modernization Act took us three or four steps forward. 82 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: It changed the rules for how our rates get set. 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: So fast forward. We were in a trial called the 84 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: Copyright Royalty Board PHONEO Records three. It's a complicated name, 85 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,600 Speaker 1: but it decided one of the two royalty songwriters get. 86 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: They get a performance royalty when their songs are performed 87 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: live or on Spotify or radio or TV. Then they 88 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,159 Speaker 1: get what amounts to a sales royalty called a mechanical royalty, 89 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,159 Speaker 1: and that's what these judges were setting. And so it 90 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: was an ugly trial the National Music Publishers and NSAI 91 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: against Apple, Amazon, Pandora, Spotify, and Google. It drug out, 92 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: but we managed to win the largest pay raise in history, 93 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: forty three point eight percent. And if people wonder why 94 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: that's important, before this, you literally could stream your song 95 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: thirty five million times. Most songs are co written, so 96 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: you have a publisher, you own a cord or at 97 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: the copyright. Your twenty five percent for thirty five million 98 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: streams was one hundred and eighty five dollars. We've advanced 99 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: that forward. What we've just done will advance it forward 100 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: even more. Apple just raised its price this week as 101 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 1: we tape this podcast, which we love because ours is 102 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: a percentage, so we automatically today get fifteen point one 103 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: percent of that new dollar. It will grow in the future. 104 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: The growth of streaming is what we're really looking at now, 105 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: and if it keeps going like we're going, I think 106 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: songwriters can add as zero to what they've seen and 107 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: maybe not too far down the road a couple. It 108 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: doesn't completely fix the problem because most of their money 109 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,920 Speaker 1: still comes from broadcast radio, but it's way better than 110 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: we were doing a few years ago. And so we 111 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: won that trial, and then we negotiated a settlement because 112 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: another trial had already started because that one had been appealed. 113 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 1: It had drug on for eight years. The good news 114 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 1: is we're about to put both those to bed. Number one, 115 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: number two songwriters will get a rearage payments back many 116 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: to the mid months of twenty twenty, because that's when 117 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 1: the appeal happened and we went back to the old rate. 118 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: But I'm tired of fighting the streaming services, and there's 119 00:07:25,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: so many things we want to work together to do, 120 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: and it's awfully hard to do when you've got a 121 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 1: guy on each other's said. Garrett Levin runs the Digital 122 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: Media Association. I sent a text yesterday about us applauding 123 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: Apple raising their prices. I'm really looking forward to working 124 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:48,520 Speaker 1: together to grow streaming and see how we can even 125 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: compensate songwriters outside the normal box. It is such a 126 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: complex topic. I spent some time with the working on 127 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: behalf of the nationals Association of Broadcasters back and I 128 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: believe it was two thousand and fourteen maybe with regard 129 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 1: to the Sound Exchange and the whole you KNOWCRB process. 130 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: I didn't have to officially testify, but I did go 131 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: on record, you know, and I was professing what radio's 132 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: piece of this was on behalf of artists and community 133 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: and all of this. And this is before the growth 134 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: of streaming really for radio had really occurred. And then 135 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: on this podcast, a gentleman named Larry Miller, who teaches 136 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: at NYU that you may know, who also is very 137 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: active in this conversation as well. He tried to boil 138 00:08:53,760 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: it down because it's complex, as you know. So whil 139 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: this down are artists and songwriters getting the fear of 140 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: shake still but they can't. Well, you opened up an 141 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: onion and there's so many layers. I'll try to boil 142 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: it down, but I got to let's go back to 143 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: history for a moment. So for the most part, there 144 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 1: is an exception to this. Songwriters rates are set by 145 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: the government, where the record label set royalties for the 146 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: most part, except a performance reyalty from streaming, they negotiate 147 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: all those in the free market. So when we started 148 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 1: all this trial stuff back in five or so, the 149 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: disparity between what the songwriter and music publisher got from 150 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: a stream and a record label was seventeen to one. 151 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 1: Record labels got seventeen hundred percent more than us with 152 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: some negotiations a couple of trials in this most recent 153 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: win depending on which service. Because they pay different amounts 154 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: to the labels, they negotiate different amounts. It's down to 155 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 1: two to one or three to one. So the royalty 156 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: you were talking about, let me try to do it 157 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 1: this way in one minute. Record labels negotiate their mechanical royalty, 158 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: their sales royalty, and they go to a trial for 159 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: their performance royalty. The artist what they get from the 160 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: labels negotiated with the label. That performance royalty from radio 161 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: you were talking about, that the labels want is not 162 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:35,079 Speaker 1: one that would go to a songwriter. It would go 163 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: to the artist only. Songwriters on the other hand, also 164 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: have the same too royalties performance and mechanical royalties. But 165 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: our rates are set by the government. That's why we 166 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: just went through these two trials. So the battle will 167 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: be continuing on. Obviously. Well, look, the streaming services will 168 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: tell you there's not enough money to go around. I'm 169 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: just fundamentally projected that they pay somewhere between, you know, 170 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 1: with less seventy maybe a little more percent out of 171 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: the dollar. Now that sounds like there's not much left. 172 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: And if you're the first year streaming company fifteen years 173 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 1: ago and you only earned ten million dollars, that's valid. 174 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: You don't have a lot to reinvest in the company, 175 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: which is why we have tiers. If you're a new 176 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: streaming service, you get some breaks, or at least you 177 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: did historically. But if you're making thirty billion dollars a year, 178 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: what's thirty percent of that? There's a lot of money 179 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:43,560 Speaker 1: left over to share with us with the labels. Because 180 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 1: it's always been if we get more of the labels 181 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: will get less. We've gotten more and the labels have 182 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 1: not taken one penny less and I'm proud of that. 183 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 1: And the services can earn more and also raise your prices. 184 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: The first CD I ever bought was nineteen ninety nine. 185 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: Apple just went from nine ninety nine to ten ninety nine. 186 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: If they went to twelve ninety nine, and the other 187 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: streaming services were not even having this conversation. Back to 188 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: the radio side of things, Radio is facing some economic 189 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: champs clearly, and you know there's a lot of debates 190 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: certainly in terms of with the increase in streaming with radio, 191 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: the radio should be paying more as well. Well, look, 192 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: there's a couple debates on that front. The labels want 193 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: a performance royalty from radio that they've never paid them. 194 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: So that's one avenue then, as Captain BMI, that's on 195 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,679 Speaker 1: the record label artist side. On the songwriter side, as 196 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 1: CAPA and BMI are in a rate proceeding telling radio 197 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: they need to pay more, and while we represent songwriters, 198 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: those fights are being led by other people, so as 199 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 1: Captain b am Meyer and the t against broadcasters to 200 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: earn more. But a completely different topic is a new 201 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: royalty that's never been paid from radio to the artist 202 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: and writers. That's what you were working on it's a lot, 203 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: and I don't know that I help the cause any 204 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of layers. I'm going to do 205 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: this in thirty seconds. There's two. When you listen to 206 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: a song, there's two copyrights. There's the song and then 207 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 1: there's the record that somebody makes of that song. On 208 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:32,320 Speaker 1: the first one, there's two royalty streams of performance and 209 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: a mechanical for the songwriters. On the label side, there's 210 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: also a performance and mechanical royalty, but they don't get 211 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: that performance royalty from radio. That's where all this starts. 212 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: And then there's a lot of tributaries downstream. But it 213 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: starts with the fact that most people don't know there's 214 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: a copyright on the song and you have to go 215 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: get a second copyright on the record you make from 216 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,960 Speaker 1: that song. So if Taylor Swift Whites read there's a 217 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: songwriter copyright, but even though she records her own song, 218 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: there's an artist copyright for her version of that song, 219 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 1: and that's where the complication just begins. Well, I would 220 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 1: say I'm a little more clarified on some of the issues, 221 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 1: but maybe I'm also confused on some of them as well. 222 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: But thank you for taking that on. Sure, it's noble. 223 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: Probably it feels sometimes like a futile of battle. There's 224 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: a smartphone laying over here beside me that just turned 225 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: eleven in August. Let's put that in context. It's a 226 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: brave new world we're all trying to figure out. You know, 227 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: we end up in this moment where we vilify each other. 228 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: And that's why I'm glad we can finally have this 229 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: space where we're not in a trial against the streaming companies. 230 00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: I personally believe this will all get worked out. I 231 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: did a mental exercise a few years ago. Unless use 232 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: Gutenberg in the printing press, there's three phases of creativity 233 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: in its distribution. Number one, we're handwriting the Bible. It 234 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: takes forever. But phase two is somebody invents the printing press, 235 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: but it's still archaic. You've got to put every little 236 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: letter of type in there. You've got to scroll the 237 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: ink across it, got to print one page, turn it over, 238 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: let it dry print the other page later. You got 239 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: to bind them by hand. But you're still producing two 240 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: thousand percent more Bibles. That's all Phase one. Phase two, 241 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 1: as somebody improves the printing press. Now you can just 242 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: electronically set the type, print both pages, shoot them out, 243 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,080 Speaker 1: staple bible, stack them up in the corner a million 244 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: an hour. We're somewhere between that and this phase phase three. 245 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: Then it's not about the printing press anymore. It's who 246 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: on the rights to the book they're printing. And we 247 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: see radio and streaming companies integrating. We see streaming companies 248 00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 1: getting into the publisher record business. And I'm hoping where 249 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: to point out where we can all see that there 250 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: are meread interest in find the right balance. We're eleven 251 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: years into the real digital era with smartphones, so we 252 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: got a ways to go. But I'm looking forward to, 253 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 1: at least on the songwriter side, the next conversation of 254 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: how we can actually work together. Okay, now I feel better. Yeah, 255 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: it wasn't sure, but now I definitely feel we'll get there. 256 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 1: But we're in this weird moment. You know, songwriters were 257 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,280 Speaker 1: used to most of the songwriters when I took this 258 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: job in nineteen ninety seven. They get a big hit single, 259 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: which is big radio money. It's six figures your share, 260 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: but that paid for the house in college. You get 261 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 1: maybe a couple of those in your career. Some got 262 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: more you made a living on album cuts, buzz. There's 263 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: no more albums, there's no more album cut doesn't pay anything. 264 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: So we're back to what it was in the twenties, thirties, 265 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: forties up until about the fifties. We're in a singles 266 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:13,120 Speaker 1: market again, way less opportunities for songwriters. Songwriters don't get 267 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: to sell merged, they don't have concert tickets. They depend 268 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: on these measly royalties and the streaming supplants. Radio. We 269 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: had to get what we've gotten. It still doesn't solve 270 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 1: the problem for this generation, but I think a decade 271 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: down the road, if streaming grows like we think it will, 272 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: we've changed the game for the future generation of writers. 273 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: So when you see a songwriter walk in, wild eyed 274 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: with enthusiasm, what's the first piece of advice you can get? Well, 275 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 1: the first thing we do is ask a question, what's 276 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: your goal? And there's really three. I want to have 277 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: commercial success, publishing deal, record deal, that's one. And many 278 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: of them tell us that I'm an indie. I don't 279 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: want a record deal, I want a publisher. I just 280 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: want to meet with other writers, write better songs for 281 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: my audience. And then a lot of our members three 282 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,439 Speaker 1: are hobbyists. They've written songs since childhood. They spend a 283 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: lot of money on it, They burn their CDs, they 284 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,639 Speaker 1: put them online. They perform locally, but they've got great 285 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 1: day jobs. They're not going to quit to go pursue 286 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,680 Speaker 1: this dream. So it depends on which one. But most 287 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: of the people say they want commercial success, and we 288 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: send them down and give them something called the reality check. 289 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: This is hard. It's not about how good your song is. 290 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 1: That's just the starting point, and we put them through 291 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: a whole litany of things and some listen, some don't. 292 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,919 Speaker 1: But if you take our advice, it helps you navigate. 293 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: This is hard, man, and it's talent, but part of 294 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,239 Speaker 1: it's just luck. Put it in perspective, there will be 295 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: more new starters for the Tennessee Titans this year. There 296 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: have been than people that get a record deal with 297 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: a ness sery money behind it to succeed. Now you 298 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: think about that, Wow, probably fifteen or twenty new Titans, 299 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: and there's less than that that will really new artists 300 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: that are going to emerge from all this. Same with songwriters, 301 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: so it's tough, and we try to help them navigate 302 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: their dreams. You know, with this intense appreciation though about history, 303 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: of course, and it starts with this building. We're in 304 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: a place called the Music Mill. Love to tell this story. 305 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: There was a guy making radio jingles. His name was 306 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 1: Harold Shit. Harold thought, well, I can make it erect. 307 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: Harold Shit shedd he needs to be in the Country 308 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,880 Speaker 1: Music Hall of Fame, throwing that out there. So Harold 309 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: kind of leverages his house and everything he's got and 310 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 1: signs this bar band named Young Country, and they put 311 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: a little ramshacklety room together over here off the roundabout. 312 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: That was the first music meal, and some of those 313 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: early records they cut. You can hear truck horns outside. 314 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: So they make an album. They take it to all 315 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: the labels, and the labels hate it, viscerally hate it. 316 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,120 Speaker 1: This is not country. Who the hell do you think 317 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,480 Speaker 1: you are? Blah blah blah blah blah. And the guys 318 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 1: are ready to go. They need to get back, play 319 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 1: their close to their hometown, play the bars, and raise 320 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: their families. Harold goes, look, I may not know much 321 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,240 Speaker 1: about this industry, but I know great songs. We've got 322 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: a pile of them. So they make another record. Most 323 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: of the labels won't meet with them, and that goes 324 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: equally nowhere Quickly, there's three songs left. Harol goes, I'm 325 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: going to go bankrupt. Let's just record them so i'll 326 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,760 Speaker 1: know we gave it to college trial. Send these last 327 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: two or three out to anybody that will still listen. Meanwhile, 328 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: back at the ranch, RCA blows into town and fires 329 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: everybody at the Nashville label, and they bring in this 330 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: twenty something kid named Joe Galani who had brought great 331 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:56,879 Speaker 1: pop stars to the label. He wanted to take it 332 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: a little more pop. And there's a cassette sitting on 333 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: his desk. He pops it in and it's this group 334 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: get them down here. They worked together for a few months. 335 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: He signs them and changes their name to Alabama. And 336 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 1: that's where it started. So Harold built this big music 337 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: mill that you're in now. The room down there was 338 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: the first sixty four track studio. It started out as 339 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,159 Speaker 1: a sixteen track. That's another great story we won't get 340 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: into today, but how he got one of the first 341 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: nine focus right boards. They weren't going to sell him. 342 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: He brought enough cash to a meeting. They took him seriously, 343 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 1: and pretty soon the next is kt OSLN Toby Keith, 344 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: Shanaiah Twain, Billy Ray, Cyrus, the Kentucky Headhunters, PolyGram, Polydor Split, 345 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 1: the label make Harold a label head. So you're in 346 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: one of the few buildings Motown was like this Bearsville 347 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: in New York, where it was the songwriters, the studio 348 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: and the record label and the creative time in those 349 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: years was insane and we're proud to be in it. 350 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: So yeah, welcome to the Music Mill. Oh that's so great. 351 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: Version two point one. By the way, that studio down 352 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: there sits on tons of white silica sand with the 353 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: lattice work, and I'm doing the look at the church, 354 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,680 Speaker 1: Look at the steeple thing here of nine thousand two 355 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: by four stuck in that sand like this. And so 356 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: when they blow up something around here, and there's a 357 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: lot of construction, this whole building will move, not that studio. 358 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 1: The walls are eighteen inches thick because he didn't want 359 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: car noises in this music mill, and they built that 360 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: independent and built the rest of the building over it. 361 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: Now we've stuck a couple holes in it because we 362 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 1: don't use it as a studio. But it's a hell 363 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: of a room down there, and the very first song 364 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: ever recorded was the one song they didn't get to 365 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: on that group, Closer You Get by Alabama, the first 366 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: song ever recorded here. Wow, there's over sixty number ones 367 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,120 Speaker 1: that we know of recorded or written here, so wow, 368 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 1: what a great story. The biggest of all time, though, 369 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: was a Breaky Heart, great friend of mine. An American 370 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: Indian Vietnam war vet named Don von Tress came in 371 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: and played the publisher, Russ Avadts, and this thing, and 372 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: Russ was in a hurry, but he said, don't finish 373 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: that with anybody else, And Don wrote it by himself 374 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: and it sold eleven million singles ak Breaky Heart, and 375 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: it was cut first by the Marcy Brothers called Don't 376 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: Tell My Heart that fell off the cliff, and Billy 377 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: Ray's down here one day Don plays it for him. 378 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 1: They played this song that night in a bar here 379 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: in Nashville, and it launched their career, in Don's career, 380 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: and so that's the most famous song out of this building, 381 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,359 Speaker 1: but there's a lot of them. Roy Rogers recorded a 382 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: record over here. Jimmy Swagger recorded it. Was crazy what 383 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 1: happened back in the eighties. Everybody wanted to record in 384 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: the digital room. One night, somebody's beaten on the door 385 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: while they're installing this board. Beaten on the door. It's 386 00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: a cold winter night. They go out there. The guy's 387 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: got a cut. Is this guy gonna mug us what 388 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 1: he comes in? It's Ron Wood of the Rolling Stones. 389 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 1: I want to watch y'all on this board. And he 390 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 1: went back and produced several big important records in England 391 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: watching what they did on this board over Wow. And 392 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: it was antalog. It wasn't digital. It was a sixty 393 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 1: four track analog board, sixteen track components plugged into an 394 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: up to sixty four track motherboard controller in the middle. 395 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: It got so hot that board they had put two 396 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,640 Speaker 1: half ton air conditioner units, which are still down there. 397 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: You could hang cows down there in that room. Man. 398 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: So I think you like being around studios, Not necessarily, 399 00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm not a studio guy. I love the history of 400 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: this one though. I'm proud of it. Yeah, it's both. 401 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: You could feel the sense of it. Yeah, sure, but 402 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: that's Nashville everything. Every week you want to walk over 403 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: here and let me give you another Nashville story. I 404 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: love it. Yeah, all right, So right here out my window. 405 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: See that little gold billing over there, it's Caddy corner 406 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:08,159 Speaker 1: from us. That's the famous RCA studio b where up 407 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: until the mid sixties Elvis recorded almost everything. One of 408 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: my favorite stories his producer was the great Chet Atkins. 409 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,720 Speaker 1: Chet was the vice president of RCA Nashville, and he 410 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,200 Speaker 1: produced almost all the songs on I think it was 411 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: a four track over there. I knew Chet a little bit. 412 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 1: I was privileged to know him a little bit. Chet 413 00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: was an old country gentleman, and when he could, he 414 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: got a closing act because he went to bed at 415 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,479 Speaker 1: eight o'clock and got up at three. His entire life. 416 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: If he could about nine o'clock, you could see Chet's headgees, 417 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: you know. So he calls RCN and goes, look, I 418 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,720 Speaker 1: like the kid. And a lot of people didn't get 419 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: this Elvis thing, and Nashville didn't embrace him. And he said, 420 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: we got an eleven o'clock session late for me. I 421 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: think he's telling Steve Schulz at RCA this, and he goes, 422 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: we got five songs, we start at eleven. We do 423 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,120 Speaker 1: those five songs. I don't want a two hour gospel concert. 424 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: Let's get this done eleven They promise him he'll be 425 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: there eleven fifteen, eleven thirty, no Elvis and check. It's 426 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: up to leave, and there's a nineteen year old tape 427 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: copyboy up there named Felton Jarvis. He threw him the 428 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: key and said you do it. They hit it off. 429 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: They got the five sides, and Felton was this producer 430 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 1: pretty much for the rest of us lot. There's a 431 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: great book by Peter Garalnik. He did that controversial Lenen 432 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: book and the two Elvis books. He's a Boston guy. Yeah, 433 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't like Garlic. I worship him 434 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 1: because he tells everything good or bad. And you should 435 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: see the stories. There's another famous one. So there's this 436 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: kid and they're going to cut the song and I 437 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 1: would have been fighting the Presley estate to some degree 438 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: because they're asking the songwriters for publishing. They would never 439 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 1: do that today. But we don't like that. But you 440 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: want to cut give up a piece of the money. 441 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: And there's some guys that are supposed to do that, 442 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: and they show up over here. I think it's nineteen 443 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: sixty five one night, and they forgot to do it. 444 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: And so the kid's over there raising hell with him 445 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: at the last minute. We got to get published. I'm 446 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: not giving you my publishing. I worship Elvis Presley. It's 447 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: why I want to do this. He doesn't see Elvis 448 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,479 Speaker 1: walk in behind him. Now the record label and the 449 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: mafia guys don't want Elvis to know any of this. 450 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 1: But Elvis looks at him and puts his finger up 451 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: there like, well, the kid can't see him. And they're 452 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: all like eyeballs big as teacups, like we're going to 453 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 1: get outed here, and the kid just keeps going on. 454 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: I love Elvis Presley, she's not getting my publishing. Give 455 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: me my song back. I'm leaving, turns around, walks straight 456 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: into Elvis, and Presley goes, I what's up man? And 457 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: the kid is Jerry Reid. The song is guitar Man. 458 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: The boy keeps his publishing, and it kind of ended 459 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: that practice. And they sit down and they're talking. Of 460 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: course read nervous. This hell picks up a guitar and 461 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: starts noodling it. Elvis asked him to play on the 462 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 1: record nuts Jerry Reid playing on guitar Man. A lot 463 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,320 Speaker 1: of great stories right over there in that corner building. 464 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 1: This is music row and it's kind of changed, sadly 465 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: with the developer version of what we see in Nashville 466 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: these days. That building was wsi X radio before Bobby Bones. 467 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: That was the Great Jerry House. Doc McGee bought it 468 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 1: a few years ago and managed Kiss, Aerosmith, Darius Hoody Slayer. 469 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,719 Speaker 1: You never knew what you were going to see out 470 00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: in this parking lot. Steven Tyler drove up one day 471 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: on Harley We all sang, we are the world together. 472 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,600 Speaker 1: Out there right over here was John Prime's building. So 473 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: all of these a lot of famous things happen in 474 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: this town on Music Row right here from where we sit. 475 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: Oh wow, with great stories like does Doc McGee still 476 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 1: own that Dot just sold it and I haven't met 477 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 1: the new owners yet. Doc's I think semi retired, but 478 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,720 Speaker 1: his son is carrying on parts of that business. Doc. 479 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: I always felt when I ran into Doc over the 480 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: years that he needed to come out of his shell. Well, 481 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what they were bringing on. They figured 482 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: out licensing. You know, Kiss had almost five thousand income 483 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: producing licenses and they got money on the front end 484 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: for them. So that's why they're so wealthy, and that's 485 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: why Gene made out on it. You know, they owned 486 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,719 Speaker 1: the name and they licensed it for products. Wow. So 487 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: the Bluebird Cafe and NSAI tell me how that came 488 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: about the purchase of the Bluebird. Well, the Bluebird was built, 489 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: the building was there, but Amy Kerwin started it in 490 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty two because she didn't like greasy food, is 491 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: my version of this story. She wanted a different place 492 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: to eat, and it was sort of a lunch place. 493 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: Nothing happened. They tried dinner and couldn't get arrested. One night. 494 00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 1: They had some bands, They had late night shows, smoking 495 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 1: hard drinking in that little place till one night Amy 496 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,479 Speaker 1: tried some songwriters and people were lined all the way 497 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 1: up Hillsborough Road, and within several months it was one 498 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: show to night, two shows to night. All the young 499 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: people wanted to play it. So she emerged this audition 500 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: process that's still in existence today. Taylor, Swift, Garth, Keith, 501 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,160 Speaker 1: Urban all discovered over there, as was every songwriter in town. 502 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 1: Because industry folks figured out, we go over there and 503 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 1: hear the songs and here are the artists before anybody does, 504 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,440 Speaker 1: and it became really the launching pad for so many careers, 505 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: as it still is today. A lady named the few 506 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: people I've ever respected more than her, Erica Wallam Nichols. 507 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 1: We worked together when I first took over Insah, she 508 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: was here, but before that she'd been a waitress with 509 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: Amy in the early days of the bluebirden so Amy 510 00:30:55,600 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: was doing everything, and in two thousand and seven I 511 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,000 Speaker 1: knew something was up because she wanted an appointment. It 512 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: was too formal. I mean, could just come over and 513 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 1: hang out anytime she wanted to. Amy. Erica and I 514 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: are sitting right there, and Amy's sitting right there next 515 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: to where you are, and she goes to y'all want 516 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: the Bluebird. First words out of her mouth, I'm going 517 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: to retire. I'm She basically gave it to us. There 518 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: was a little bit of a purchase price, but it 519 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: was ridiculously low. And Amy did it because she gave 520 00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: a damn about the legacy. And I think she knew 521 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: with us in general, but Erica in particular, we wouldn't 522 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: change what she created. We've made some changes, but none 523 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: that customers or songwriters would ever notice, and so we 524 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: went quickly past that discussion, and we've run it since 525 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: January one, two thousand and eight. How much fun is 526 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: that depends on what day it is. It's also a restaurant, 527 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,240 Speaker 1: so the shows and all that we love, but when 528 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: the cooler goes out, that's the part we've had to 529 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 1: learn how to do. But it's still active and it's 530 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: better than ever. And look, Erica not only steered it 531 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: through COVID, she became active in the save the Shuttered 532 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: Venue Operators grants that got some money to clubs like this, 533 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: because look, music industry was the first hit and we're 534 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: still not completely recovered from COVID. Touring is back, but 535 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: everybody can't tour. Venues can only support so much. But 536 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Erica kept that club open. There's a guy in Nashville 537 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: named Butch Spiriton that runs the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation. 538 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: Butch came up with a grant to buy streaming equipment 539 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 1: for every venue in Nashville. That helped us, and we 540 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: just we picked it up as a community and not 541 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,640 Speaker 1: only got through COVID, but we read led some of 542 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: that national legislative effort. NSAI wrote the language with Senator 543 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: Blackburn's office that made every self employed person eligible for unemployment. 544 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: The whole industry was working on that but a Tennessee 545 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: senator did that and got it in there early and 546 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:06,000 Speaker 1: got it passed. So so the Bluebird is better than ever, 547 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: but it played an important role for other venues like them, 548 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: and we lost a couple. The one that broke my 549 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: heart was Douglas Corner that even with the Bluebird, that's 550 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: probably my favorite venue in town. And a lot of 551 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: great places closed, and that was sad to see a 552 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: lot of threadgills other places in Austin, you know, But 553 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: that's our challenge for the future is to keep the 554 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: history of that place in a town that you know, 555 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: I've been a little critical about this and I'll say 556 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: it again, that needs to pay more attention to the 557 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: history of why we would call Music City USA in 558 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,600 Speaker 1: the first place. So you think that in the midst 559 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: of development maybe is taking a back seat. So if 560 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: you look at some venues like Station and the Bluebird, 561 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: there are massive developments coming up next door, and the 562 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: develop are the one that's next to us is great, 563 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 1: they're friendly to us, but we should have had a 564 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: conversation of what that looked like twenty years ago. Music 565 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: grows calm, people are moving elsewhere because the land's too valuable. 566 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: And the city doesn't give us the incentives I think 567 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: they should to stay here. So it's a conversation long, 568 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,600 Speaker 1: long overdue. There have been a tempts at it, but 569 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: we've never really sat down. And I think there's other 570 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: cities like Memphis and other things that have managed to 571 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: do that through the years. But it requires some tough 572 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: political decisions. Are we going to give some sort of 573 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,439 Speaker 1: special consideration to the history of music in this town 574 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:44,279 Speaker 1: or not? Well, you know, it's a fight that has 575 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 1: to be had, or a conversation. Well, I'm trying, and 576 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: I've tried through a lot of administrations, and we'll keep trying. 577 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: But you know, we've already lost some things that are 578 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,680 Speaker 1: sad for decisions that should have been made several administrations ago. 579 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 1: If we're telling the truth about it, well, bart, let's 580 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,320 Speaker 1: close out and play a little game of Desert Island 581 00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: disc you know that game. There's only one houses of 582 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: the Holy led Zeppelin. If it's one song, it's the 583 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,480 Speaker 1: Rain Song and we can go from there. If there's 584 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: a second album, it's Bob Dylan, the one with Tangled 585 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 1: Up in Blue Shelter from the Stormline. I've miss on 586 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,160 Speaker 1: the track on the tracks. That's the second one, and 587 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: the third one's Elvis Presley's greatest hits with the Goldblamet 588 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: serial on. Those are the three you didn't even flinch. 589 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: I've done this a long time. Look up here on 590 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 1: the wall some of my favorite songs. These are all lyrics, 591 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: of course, we're an audio thing of the songs written 592 00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,480 Speaker 1: by the artists. My newest one of my favorites on 593 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,000 Speaker 1: the left, over there, Brandy or a Fine Girl, And 594 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,120 Speaker 1: that was written by the artist, the head of looking Glass, 595 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: Elliott Lourie. We've become best friends, but truth be told, 596 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,000 Speaker 1: that's my favorite. Over there, long cool woman in a 597 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: black dress on a black dress. Oh my god. Yeah, 598 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: it's amazing, Bart. Thank you for being on it. This 599 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: is a lot of fun, Buzzy. I want to do 600 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:05,799 Speaker 1: this again with you when we can. We'll go do 601 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: it at the Bluebird next time with Erica. All right, 602 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: Oh well, count me in, count me in. Thank you. 603 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,239 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk with buzz Night is available on Spotify, 604 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.