1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,279 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson, 3 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: and I'm Holly Crying today or this week. We talked 4 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: on the show for two episodes about William APIs. Sure did, Yeah, 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:24,760 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't expect that to become a two 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: parter because, uh, there are a couple of biographies of him, 7 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,240 Speaker 1: one of which I read and the other I kind 8 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: of skimmed through highlights of. Uh, they're both pretty short. 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: Like I was surprised at the length of the Lucy 10 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: Parsons book when I got it from the library. I 11 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: had the opposite experience with the William APIs biography. The 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: first one that I picked up from the library. It 13 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: was like even smaller of a volume than I thought 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: it was going to be. Um, partly because he did 15 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: die at such a young age, and then partly because 16 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: they're just parts of it where we don't know a 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 1: lot of details. Uh. I really was like, yeah, it's 18 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 1: gonna be one part. It's gonna be pretty easy and straightforward. 19 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: And then every time I read anything he wrote, I 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: was like, well, I want to put that quote in 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: the episode. I want to put this quote in the 22 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: episode two. What if we had a whole episode where 23 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,200 Speaker 1: we just read this entire piece that seemed maybe a 24 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: little excessive, But I I had a lot more trouble 25 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: figuring out things not to include in the episode from 26 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: his writing than I often do when when working on 27 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: the you know, a podcast on somebody who wrote lots 28 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: of things that we have available to read. There is 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: the law of inversion where pretty much every time I 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: go into an episode going this is gonna be a breezy, 31 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: quick one to put together. No, And often there the 32 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: opposite happens, where I'm like, oh, I got really like 33 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: a walk around the perimeter of this one and like 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: really get the lay of the land. And then I'll 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: be like, oh, I just dropped that off, Like I think, yeah, 36 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: probably because I'm approaching it that way, I get a 37 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: better holistic sense of the whole thing before I even 38 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: start writing. And then it's like off to the races. 39 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 1: But yes, the accidental two parter is a thing that 40 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: happens so much. Um so many things about his life 41 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: are things that are still so so relevant today. I mean, 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:16,680 Speaker 1: we talked specifically about the mash b Wompang's having the 43 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,359 Speaker 1: whole part of very recently having been informed that their 44 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: reservation was going to be disestablished. You know that that 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: was uh an example that we gave of like how 46 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: this was still all of this is still ongoing, but 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in a more general way is 48 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: still a big issue. Like, Um, it's clear that the 49 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: situation of William and his siblings with their grandmother was 50 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: not a good situation. Also, removing Indigenous children from an 51 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: Indigenous family and putting them with a white family has 52 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,959 Speaker 1: historically been used intentionally to try to like get Native 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: kids out of their home environment um and to to 54 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: like quote assimilate them with a white family. And it's 55 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: something that's all going on today. There's a lot in 56 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: the United States on the books called AQUA, that's the 57 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 1: Indian Child Welfare Act that was passed in like specifically 58 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: to address this, to to to try to cut down 59 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: on the number of Native children who are taken from 60 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: Native families and placed into foster care or adopted by 61 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: white families. Um. After you know, generations of that having 62 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: been done intentionally, UH. And there have been ongoing court 63 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: cases in recent years arguing that this law is discriminatory 64 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: against white families. Um. And that is way bigger of 65 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: a topic than we can get to in this behind 66 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: the scenes episode. But the podcast This Land has a 67 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: whole season that is just about that, like following the 68 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: court cases that have been evolving specifically about this, so 69 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: that like as I was researching, it was like this 70 00:03:57,720 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: just resonates with a lot of things that are still 71 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: really happening today, and also just a lot of more 72 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: general stuff about, uh, what sovereignty means, and what different 73 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: indigenous people want sovereignty sovereignty to mean. How a lot 74 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: of the laws that we have in place that are 75 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: about indigenous people were passed by white legislatures and are 76 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: like a really European view of looking at things. Um, 77 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: like the idea of how much quote Indian blood somebody 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: has ties into all of this. Also because mashp had 79 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: had a lot of wampanaged people, but also people of 80 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:38,479 Speaker 1: other nations, there are people who tried to argue like, well, 81 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: that's not really a tribe, that's just a bunch of 82 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 1: different people that happened to live together. Uh. And for 83 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: a lot of Indigenous nations, like inner marriages and people 84 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: being adopted into a different nation than they had been 85 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: born into. Is like just a part of how society 86 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: works and the idea that it would not be that 87 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: something that uh that you know, a majority white government 88 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: put into place to try to control people and where 89 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 1: they lived and what they had access to. So this 90 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: whole episode continually like that's still happening right well, And 91 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: I know this is an episode that UM is very 92 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 1: tricky in regard to the way that APS was using 93 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: some of the same arguments that people had used historically 94 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: to oppress indigenous people's Like that's that's some tricky stuff 95 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: to work through, yeah, Um, And he was doing all 96 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: that with a mostly self taught education, UM, which I'd 97 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: find to be extraordinary, Like he he found ways to 98 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: use a Western set of rhetoric, a Western mindset to 99 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:50,719 Speaker 1: kind of turn that in on itself to argue for 100 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: indigenous people's sovereignty, having um had six winters of formal education, UM, 101 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: which uh, you know that he his library does not 102 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: sound like that many books when we have talked about 103 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: other people on the show who had volume like three 104 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: thousand volume libraries. As an itinerant minister, he had assembled 105 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: a library of something like forty one books some of 106 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 1: them multi volume works without having the kind of resources 107 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: that a lot of the people that we have talked 108 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: about who have had gigantic libraries had. So it's like 109 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: he he learned how to make his points in a 110 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: way that was really effective in a society that had 111 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: intentionally tried to make him not have the skills to 112 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: do that, which is amazing. Um. Also, I was raised Methodist, uh, 113 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 1: And having been raised Methodist, like, I know the basics, 114 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, I know the basic history of Methodism as 115 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: a denomination, but I find it hilarious every time I 116 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: find historical writing that's like and then the Methodist they 117 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: were so radical. People thought it was weird how radical 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: the Methodists were. And I'm like Methodists were not radical 119 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: enough for the young Tracy V. Wilson as a teenager. 120 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: So there are scans of a whole lot of William 121 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: Abiss work. You can mind a lot of it at 122 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 1: archive dot org, a lot of it at various university websites, UM, 123 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: and stuff that you can read yourself if you're interested 124 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: in that. I'm glad that there are a couple of 125 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: biographies that have come out on him in the last 126 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: few years. UM. And I I hope he'll become better known. 127 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: Like I can't remember exactly where I first stumbled across 128 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: his name, uh, but it was one of the people 129 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: that I was like. I really like he has been 130 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: compared to somebody like Frederick Douglas in terms of his 131 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: life and his work that he was doing, but of 132 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: course not nearly as as well known of a name 133 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: as Frederick Douglas. So so again, Happy Friday. I hope 134 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: everybody's weekend it's going to be as great as possible. 135 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: We'll be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow and then 136 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: back on Monday with a brand new episode. Stuff You 137 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. 138 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the I 139 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 140 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.