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Speaker 1: When you're a kid, all the first are just embedded

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Speaker 1: in your mind forever, that first pet, your first bite,

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Speaker 1: your first kiss, and that first death, especially if that

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Speaker 1: death is a friend. When I was twelve years old,

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Speaker 1: we lost a classmate. I remember our teachers, all of

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Speaker 1: them coming in and talking to us, all at once,

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Speaker 1: a big group, and when they told us, I just

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Speaker 1: remember staring at her empty desk.

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Speaker 2: I was sad, but oddly I was also a little scared.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know why. I knew grandparents could die. I

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Speaker 1: knew it was rare, but even maybe a parent could die,

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Speaker 1: but it had never dawned on me that a kid

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Speaker 1: could die one that I knew. Everything seemed to be

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Speaker 1: just off balance. There are a lot of classmates from

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Speaker 1: that year that I don't remember at all, but I

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Speaker 1: remember Tracy. She will forever be twelve, and I will

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Speaker 1: forever remember the last time I saw her. We had

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Speaker 1: a stacked kickball team, and honey, she was our ringer.

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Speaker 1: Just the day before, we had had a fuel day

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Speaker 1: and all the games that were played, our team won everything.

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Speaker 2: We sweep the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: I remember she wore bright white knee socks with colored

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Speaker 1: stripes just at the top short shorts and an Electric

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Speaker 1: Light Orchestra T shirt.

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Speaker 2: Ello Baby, she loved them.

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Speaker 1: Tonight we have Betty Martin and let me tell you something.

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Speaker 1: She and I became fast friends. We met in Arkansas

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Speaker 1: at the True Crime Fest. Her sweet Southern charm, easy

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Speaker 1: smile was impossible not to be drawn in.

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Speaker 2: Biddy is smart.

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Speaker 1: She's got a degree in marketing and if that wasn't

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Speaker 1: impressive enough, and one in nursing. She is kind and

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Speaker 1: she is a dedicated daughter of Arkansas. She still lives

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Speaker 1: there in her hometown of Hot Springs, where she is

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Speaker 1: a board member of the Garland County Historical Society.

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Speaker 2: Biddy, Welcome to Zone seven.

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Speaker 3: Mac. Thank you so much. It is such an honor

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Speaker 3: to be here today with you on Z seven. I

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Speaker 3: count my lucky stars when I met you up in Fadebville, Arkansas,

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Speaker 3: the home of the Arkansas Racerbacks. Sue and met you

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Speaker 3: and learned about your podcasts and I didn't know well

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Speaker 3: when I saw that, Emmy, how many do you have? Three?

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Speaker 2: I have one, but we were nominated three times.

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Speaker 3: Yes, talk about credentials. Thank you so much for inviting

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Speaker 3: me here today. Mac.

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Speaker 1: Listen, your story is one of a kind and I

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Speaker 1: think it's going to resonate so much with our audience.

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Speaker 1: So you had a childhood friend, Kathy Ward, tell us

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Speaker 1: how you came to know Kathy.

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Speaker 3: Kathy, I want to just backtrack first. I can't believe

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Speaker 3: that your friend her name was Tracy. Well, if it

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Speaker 3: hadn't been for my friend and my neighbor across the street,

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Speaker 3: Leslie Tracy, I would have never written this story about

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Speaker 3: our friend Kathy, who died on June twenty fourth, nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty six. Kathy was a year younger than me, and

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Speaker 3: I'm a twin. I'm an identical twin, and she's a

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Speaker 3: year younger than Mitsie and I. And she was the

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Speaker 3: same age as Leslie, who lived across the street from us.

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Speaker 3: She would come down to Leslie's. We knew Kathy. All

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Speaker 3: of Leslie's friends were our friends, and our friends were

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Speaker 3: less and we were just one big group at Jones

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Speaker 3: School in Hot Springs, Arkansas. A week before Kathy died

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Speaker 3: horseback riding out at Black Snake Branch, she went skateboarding

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Speaker 3: with Leslie at her house. We had a little hill

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Speaker 3: on our street that was perfect for skateboarding. She left

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Speaker 3: her skateboard that day at Leslie's house, and Leslie hid

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Speaker 3: it in some bushes and called her and said, look,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to church camp tomorrow with the twins and

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Speaker 3: I have your skateboard. Come get it and when I

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Speaker 3: get back this week we'll go skateboarding. Kathy had had

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Speaker 3: a chaotic and dysfunctional childhood. Her father was a doctor

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Speaker 3: in Murphysburo, Arkansas, which was an hour away from Hot Springs.

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Speaker 3: Six years earlier, her mother and daddy separated, and instead

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Speaker 3: of her mother going home to Elda, Arkansas, down by

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Speaker 3: the Louisiana border, where she had grown up, she came

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Speaker 3: to Hot Springs. The reason why it is on the

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Speaker 3: front cover.

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Speaker 1: Of my book.

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Speaker 2: Oh yes, I have the book.

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Speaker 3: And you know what that is. It's the Southern Grill.

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Speaker 3: It's the Southern Club. And on the on the the

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Speaker 3: neon sign it's this can can girl kicking. You noticed

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Speaker 3: that above above their sign where they have who's appearing

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Speaker 3: that evening? All the movie stars, well all won't say

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Speaker 3: movie stars, but singers and entertainers would come to Hot

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Speaker 3: Springs and entertain at two different nightclubs. Back in the sixties,

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Speaker 3: we had illegal gambling. It was rampant and people from Gambler,

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Speaker 3: from Chicago and all over the Midwest came to Hot Springs,

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Speaker 3: and it attracted entertainers like, Oh, I don't know, Tody Fields.

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Speaker 3: This is later Liberachi. I think Phyllis Dillner came. But anyway,

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Speaker 3: I think that's what attracted Kathy's mother to Springs as

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Speaker 3: a young, single, separated mother. She was thirty eight years

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Speaker 3: old when she came to Hot Springs. She had three

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Speaker 3: children and Kathy was the middle child. And I know

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Speaker 3: I'm going really in depth in the story, but I

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Speaker 3: will tell you this. Kathy had a very chaotic and

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Speaker 3: dysfunctional lie because her mother was an alcoholic. Her father

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Speaker 3: married his nurse in Murphysbur, Arkansas, hour away, and her

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Speaker 3: mother was still trying to put on pretenses of being

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Speaker 3: a doctor's wife.

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Speaker 1: Right, And that's the reason this horseback riding came about.

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Speaker 3: She had begged her mother to let her go out

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Speaker 3: there with her friends to ride. Her mother kept saying no,

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Speaker 3: and for some reason, the week of June twenty fourth,

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Speaker 3: she acquiesced and took her out and bought her fancy

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Speaker 3: riding well riding pants they were red riding pants, and

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Speaker 3: jobbed her boots. Kathy went out to the ram and

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Speaker 3: she never went back home.

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Speaker 1: Well, you know, when you think about horseback riding, it

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Speaker 1: was always the girls.

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Speaker 2: That came from money. Guess to know in this case,

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Speaker 2: right know, in this case.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying, when you think back of the young

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Speaker 1: girls that did the horseback riding every week, typically they

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Speaker 1: came from money. So to your point, if her mama

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Speaker 1: is trying to keep up those pretenses.

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Speaker 2: You're right, You're right, Mac.

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Speaker 3: I never thought about that.

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Speaker 1: So you wrote a book called Snake Eyes, and let

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Speaker 1: me tell you, the cover caught my attention, but so

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Speaker 1: did the back when you're talking about al Capone and

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Speaker 1: other gangsters that frequented.

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Speaker 2: That area as well.

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Speaker 1: Right out of the gate, you describe her mama getting

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Speaker 1: a phone call, and I'm quoting here.

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Speaker 2: These are your words.

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Speaker 1: Kathy was lost somewhere on the trails, but said they

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Speaker 1: knew she'd be all right when they found her. Now, that,

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Speaker 1: to me, as a mama is one of those hearts

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Speaker 1: stopping phone calls you don't need. I had to finish

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Speaker 1: that sentence. If you say Kathy's loss, that's all I'm on.

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Speaker 3: Here, Because supposedly this was the first time she'd ever

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Speaker 3: been on a horse.

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Speaker 2: She wanted to go riding.

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Speaker 1: Mama said no, you can't go, no, no, no, And

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, yes you can go. Let's

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Speaker 1: go get you some clothes, and she's out riding and

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Speaker 1: before her mom can pick her up, they're calling her,

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Speaker 1: telling her Kathy's loss somewhere out on the trail. Kathy

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Speaker 1: had a boyfriend at this time. They might it had

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Speaker 1: given her a piece of jewelry.

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Speaker 3: Yes, he was the quarterback of the opposing junior high school,

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Speaker 3: which was very daring and unconventional back then to date

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Speaker 3: across school lines back in the sixties, you dated somebody

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Speaker 3: from your school. She was a beautiful girl. They met

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Speaker 3: at our wide teen dances on Friday nights and that's

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Speaker 3: how they met and started dancing. And yes, he had

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Speaker 3: given her a necklace the Wednesday before she went riding

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Speaker 3: on Friday.

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Speaker 1: Now, this ranch owner, you paint a sinister picture of

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Speaker 1: him right off the bat. And again I quote at

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Speaker 1: three forty eight pm on Friday June twenty fourth, nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty six, Frank Davis, the forty two year old lack

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Speaker 1: Snake ranch owner, called the Sheriff's department to report an accident.

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Speaker 1: What did Frank Davis tell law enforcement about Kathy Ward.

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Speaker 3: He told them that she fell off the horse and

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Speaker 3: was dragged to death, and that he couldn't catch the

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Speaker 3: horse in time to save her. But he was a

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Speaker 3: skilled horseman. In fact, he was a trick rider. He

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Speaker 3: could have caught her. Now, there are rumors. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if you want to go over the rumors, but

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Speaker 3: there are rumors about what actually happened.

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Speaker 2: Now, Sugary, you know, good and well, I want to

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Speaker 2: hit them rumors.

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Speaker 3: Okay, several different rumors, one of which is that we

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Speaker 3: heard at school that she had been raped and murdered.

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Speaker 3: Of course, none of our teachers nor our parents would

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Speaker 3: talk about it, but those rumors were everywhere. And supposedly

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Speaker 3: he had raped her and then murdered her. He supposedly

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Speaker 3: hit her with a rock over the head and then

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Speaker 3: he realized, oops, I killed her. So he attached her

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Speaker 3: foot and one of her feet to the stirrups, tied

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Speaker 3: it in there, and hit the horse's back and let

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Speaker 3: it take off and drag her. But then that doesn't

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Speaker 3: make sense when you go to the back of the

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Speaker 3: book and you read about a girl that was there

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Speaker 3: when it happened, and she claimed that she went with

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Speaker 3: him to search for Kathy, and she's the one that

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Speaker 3: found her. So I don't know, there were a lot

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Speaker 3: of rumors.

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Speaker 1: Well, now that's one thing I want to touch on.

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Speaker 1: He actually got one of her friends to go with

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Speaker 1: him to search for her. Now he knew where she was.

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Speaker 1: So not only was that young girl fixing to realize

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Speaker 1: her friend is dead, but she's going to be the

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Speaker 1: one to find her.

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Speaker 3: He was setting her up, oh absolutely, because then if

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Speaker 3: you remember, later on, he set her up again, this

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Speaker 3: little girl, thirteen year old little girl, He set her

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Speaker 3: up again in another instance with his second what turned

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Speaker 3: in evolved into his second murder.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, he knew he was going to add

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Speaker 2: trauma to her life, and he did it anyway.

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Speaker 1: And he made her such a critical witness, even though

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Speaker 1: she didn't know exactly what she was seeing.

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Speaker 2: She thought it was just a horrible accident at first.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: She was so traumatized that when I tried to interview

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Speaker 3: her for the book, she wouldn't talk to me. I

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Speaker 3: went downtown. Her daughter worked at a store downtown, and

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Speaker 3: I went down there several times to ask her if

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Speaker 3: her mother would give me an interview, and she said,

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Speaker 3: we'll come back and I'll talk to her. And each

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Speaker 3: time she said no, Mother just can't, just won't talk

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Speaker 3: to you. Well, come to find out last March, I

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Speaker 3: was speaking at an event and her daughter was there

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Speaker 3: and she came through and want me to sign her book,

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Speaker 3: and she says, mother wishes she would have talked to

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Speaker 3: you years later, but it was traumatic for both her

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Speaker 3: and another little girl that was there with them.

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Speaker 1: It was traumatic for the whole town. Like when you

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Speaker 1: mentioned parents and teachers wouldn't talk. I think that comes

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Speaker 1: from just this overwhelming it's almost too horrible to talk about.

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Speaker 3: Even her mother, her family wouldn't talk about it. Her

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Speaker 3: little sister was ten years old when Cathy died, but

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Speaker 3: she was eighteen when she learned it was actually a murder.

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Speaker 3: And she told me that she said, we never talked

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Speaker 3: about it, and she explained how she learned that her

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Speaker 3: sister was actually murdered.

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Speaker 2: Again.

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Speaker 1: In the book, there's a part where you're talking about

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Speaker 1: her lifeless body being taken to gross mortuary on Central Avenue,

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Speaker 1: and you say, just three weeks earlier, she had gotten

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Speaker 1: her report card and was looking so forward to the summer,

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Speaker 1: and you know that's every kid, that's every one of

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Speaker 1: us we remember. Just give me that report card and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to run out this door, I don't even.

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Speaker 3: Care what's on it, and have the best summer ever. Yes,

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Speaker 3: And she had a new boyfriend and the big quarterback

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Speaker 3: and everything was going great in her life.

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Speaker 1: Tell us a little bit about Mary Sue Tracy and

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Speaker 1: her daughter, Leslie.

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Speaker 3: They were my neighbors, Leslie. Mary Sue was Leslie's mother.

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Speaker 3: They lived right across the street from us. Miss Tracy

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Speaker 3: I didn't really call her Mary c I called her

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Speaker 3: Miss Tracy. She was a fifth grade substitute teacher in

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Speaker 3: Kathy's room. Her teacher was sick and went out on

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Speaker 3: sickly and Miss Tracy replaced her. And the first thing

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Speaker 3: she did was ask the kids to please write something

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Speaker 3: about themselves. And she's wanting to get to know each

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Speaker 3: of the children. When she read Kathy's paper, it just

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Speaker 3: tugged at her heart and it was so emotional. She

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Speaker 3: couldn't understand. She couldn't believe that a fifth grader could

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Speaker 3: write like Kathy wrote. She took Miss Tracy took that

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Speaker 3: paper home and stuck it in her probably in her

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Speaker 3: nights stand or somewhere in her bedroom, and it stayed

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Speaker 3: there until the day she died. Maybe she had taken

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Speaker 3: it home because she was going to share it with

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Speaker 3: Kathy's mother to possibly get Kathy some help, because she said,

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Speaker 3: Kathy wrote on her paper, my father is a doctor,

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Speaker 3: but my parents are divorced and I miss him. I

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Speaker 3: like it here now that I'm making friends, but I

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Speaker 3: don't like being here. That just tugged at Miss Tracy's heart,

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Speaker 3: and for some reason, she took it home with her

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Speaker 3: and they were close. And when Kathy would I guess

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Speaker 3: that's how they became really close. Miss Tracy and Kathy did.

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Speaker 3: And then when Kathy would come down to Leslie's, Miss

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Speaker 3: Tracy introduced Kathy to her daughter, Leslie. They weren't in

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Speaker 3: the same class, but they were in the same year.

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Speaker 3: They became good frien because we only lived two blocks

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Speaker 3: away from Kathy. And every time she would come down

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Speaker 3: to Leslie's house, Kathy would stop and first visit with

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Speaker 3: missus Tracy and Leslie would just sit in her room

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Speaker 3: because she knew that Kathy would talk to her mother

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Speaker 3: because she couldn't. She was a substitute as a mother too,

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Speaker 3: because Kathy's mother was home with her bottle.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when you're working a cold case, and

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Speaker 1: I tell people this all the time, there are so

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Speaker 1: many roadblocks that people don't even realize has happened. So

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Speaker 1: you've already talked about one. Somebody that just wouldn't talk

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Speaker 1: to you. They had information, they knew the story, they

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Speaker 1: knew Kathy. They were there, literally, they were there who

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Speaker 1: wouldn't talk to you. But gross mortuary burned down and

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Speaker 1: all the files with it, and then the coroner, the

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Speaker 1: corner didn't keep any files.

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Speaker 3: You're right, you're right, Keep going, keep.

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Speaker 2: Going to that other of it.

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Speaker 1: And this is my favorite part when you say other

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Speaker 1: officials quote had bad memories.

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Speaker 3: That is that was the sheriff.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he don't know nothing, don't remember nothing, didn't

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Speaker 1: say nothing, didn't hear nothing. YEP.

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: But and this is also critical for people that you

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Speaker 1: didn't give up and you kind of went old old

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Speaker 1: school on this, and some of our folks may not

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Speaker 1: even know, but you went Dewey decimal system.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did Dewey.

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Speaker 3: And microfilm and everything.

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Speaker 2: You're right, that library reference desk, honey.

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Speaker 3: I am grateful to them here at the Garland County

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Speaker 3: Library indeed, and also though I must have been the courthouse,

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Speaker 3: the Circuit court clerk Christy Womble was so good to me.

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Speaker 3: She dug up old files and I mean she had

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Speaker 3: to go outside the courthouse to where they kept all

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Speaker 3: their old files and search for that year and pull

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Speaker 3: them and brought them back to the courthouse for me

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Speaker 3: to dig through. And I will say she's also done

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Speaker 3: that on my next book. It's so great to have

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Speaker 3: a good contact like that.

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Speaker 1: I'm telling you, it's a team effort, all of it.

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Speaker 1: The Garland Historical Society obviously is a gift. But then

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Speaker 1: you've got the old newspapers in the reference desk and

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Speaker 1: you just you know, again, being a child, you might

305
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Speaker 1: not have remembered the date that she died. So that's

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Speaker 1: the first thing you had to find right.

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Speaker 3: Right, And that took forever. We couldn't remember when it was.

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Speaker 3: I thought it was in the summertime. Leslie thought it

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Speaker 3: was in September, and for the life of me, I

310
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Speaker 3: could not find it. I went through so many reels

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Speaker 3: of microfilm looking for the story because I knew it

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Speaker 3: would be on the front page of the newspaper.

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Speaker 2: Now, she died June twenty fourth, nineteen sixty six, but

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Speaker 2: the June twenty fifth issue she wasn't mentioned right.

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Speaker 3: And what it was is that in our town we

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Speaker 3: had two newspapers, a morning edition called the Sentinel Record

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Speaker 3: and the evening edition was the New Era. Well, the

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Speaker 3: library only had the morning edition. The weekend edition was

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Speaker 3: only in the New Era, which was the evening so

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Speaker 3: they didn't have that. That's why I wasn't able to

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Speaker 3: find it. Because, if you remember, one of her boyfriends

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Speaker 3: searched also and he came to the same conclusion as

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Speaker 3: me that that day was missing, and the microfilm will

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Speaker 3: it was because they didn't have the correct newspaper, and

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Speaker 3: I had to go to Little Rock to the Arkansas

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Speaker 3: History Commission to find that newspaper.

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Speaker 1: Now, see that's something too for people that are investigating anything.

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Speaker 1: We had the Atlanta Journal Atlanta Constitution, same type thing,

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Speaker 1: but if you don't realize, you're only looking at the

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Speaker 1: morning edition and there's an even edition somewhere. So that's

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Speaker 1: good to remind people to look for those different things.

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Speaker 2: Now, in your research.

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Speaker 1: You talked to sixty people, so you are getting the

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Speaker 1: whole victimology, the whole suspectology. You're getting as much of

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Speaker 1: this story as you possibly can because you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a small town. So if you're talking to sixty people,

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Speaker 1: that's a pretty good sample.

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Speaker 2: Now we're not that small. Well you're not that small,

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Speaker 2: but we all say there.

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Speaker 3: To Atlanta, and we are.

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Speaker 1: But I'm saying sixty people associated with any case would

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Speaker 1: be a good sample.

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Speaker 3: I did talk to as many people as I knew

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Speaker 3: knew about Kathy's death and might have some spin off

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Speaker 3: from it. And after I signed a contract with my

346
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Speaker 3: publisher and I had three months to get the book

347
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:56,239
Speaker 3: ready to submit to them, I was still adding. I

348
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,919
Speaker 3: was still catching little interviews here and there of people

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Speaker 3: that I would hear would say something like online I'd

350
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,080
Speaker 3: read something was calling them up and say, hey, you

351
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 3: said this about the murder and Frank Davis and I

352
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,439
Speaker 3: would interview him and I'd stick him in. And I

353
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Speaker 3: kept doing that until the submission date, which was March

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Speaker 3: of twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Now, you and your group of childhood friends and your sister,

356
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Speaker 1: y'all have traveled. Y'all have made an annual event to

357
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Speaker 1: go research this case. Tell us about that a little

358
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Speaker 1: bit because in my mind, I just see y'all like

359
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,320
Speaker 1: loading up the convertible and going out film and Louise style,

360
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Speaker 1: trying to you know, avenge.

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Speaker 2: This wrong, that this happened to your friend.

362
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Speaker 3: Well, the one thing that we do do is that

363
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Speaker 3: every June twenty fourth, we know where we will be,

364
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Speaker 3: and that is in Murphysboro, Arkansas, at their cemetery right

365
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Speaker 3: around the corner of their town square where Kathy is buried.

366
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Speaker 3: And you're right, it is an adventure, and especially we

367
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 3: had something very strange happened the first year that we went.

368
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Speaker 3: But we go every year, and if we couldn't go,

369
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Speaker 3: it'd be very dramatic to us because it's become like

370
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Speaker 3: a holiday to us. We know where we'll be on

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Speaker 3: June twenty fourth.

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Speaker 1: You're right, and you know we talk a lot about

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Speaker 1: loyalty on this show. I'm big on loyalty. And you know,

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Speaker 1: just the idea as a mama that a group of

375
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Speaker 1: friends would continue to think about a child decades and

376
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Speaker 1: decades and decades later.

377
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Speaker 2: It's moving and it's extraordinary to me. Well, thank you.

378
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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 1: Now you took something very significant to the grave site

380
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Speaker 1: that first year you went back.

381
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Speaker 2: Tell us about that.

382
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Speaker 3: You're right. The first year that we went to Kathy's grave,

383
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Speaker 3: we of course took flowers that We also took her

384
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 3: childhood skateboard that she had left at Leslie's Haase house

385
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,560
Speaker 3: the week that she died. Leslie's had that all these years,

386
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 3: and at one point around y two, k Leslie thought

387
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 3: she had lost the skateboard, Kathy's skateboard, or else it

388
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:19,400
Speaker 3: had been stolen by her n'ar dowell son in law.

389
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 3: She was bummed out about that. I never knew that

390
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: she had Kathy's skateboard until one day in twenty fourteen,

391
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 3: I was working up in New York. I was a

392
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,399
Speaker 3: travel nurse, working and operating up in New Rochelle, and

393
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 3: I called up Lessing and I said, Hey, I'm coming

394
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 3: home in two weeks, and I want to start. I

395
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:40,359
Speaker 3: want to go to the library and try to find

396
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,320
Speaker 3: Kathy's obituary or story whatever we can find. That's when

397
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 3: Leslie told me, hey, I've had Kathy's skateboard all these years.

398
00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 3: She never told me in Midsei that story, and she

399
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,480
Speaker 3: told me how she she had vanished. But then one

400
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 3: day that year in two thousand fourteen, she had a

401
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:06,159
Speaker 3: handyman over at her house and he came walking in

402
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 3: her living room. He said, hey, look when I found

403
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 3: upstairs in the attic. She looked at it. He was

404
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: holding Kathy's vintage skateboard. Leslie ran over to him and

405
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 3: grabbed it and hugged it, and she told me that story,

406
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: and I asked her, I said, well, what day when

407
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: did he find it? You know the date, because for

408
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 3: some reason I knew the date would be important. And

409
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 3: she said, well, I don't know. I'll write him a

410
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 3: check and i'll text you the date. Well, by that time,

411
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,720
Speaker 3: two weeks later, I was back in I was home

412
00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 3: in Hot Springs for my two weeks off down here,

413
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,679
Speaker 3: and that's when we went to the library and we

414
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 3: were searching for Kathy's information. Leslie told me that the

415
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 3: skateboard had appeared on June twenty fourth, twenty fourteen, and

416
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 3: it didn't click until after we finally found her death

417
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,679
Speaker 3: date at the Historical Society, and I put two and

418
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 3: two together that her skateboard reappeared on the forty eighth

419
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 3: anniversary of her death.

420
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Speaker 2: That is unbelievable.

421
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 3: I would have never written the book if that hadn't happened.

422
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 3: I'll be honest with you.

423
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 2: And that's something.

424
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,640
Speaker 1: So let's circle back to Frank, because at this point,

425
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,240
Speaker 1: if I just hit some highlights for people, it's going

426
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,040
Speaker 1: to sound like I'm lying that I'm just making this up.

427
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: But he goes on to murder again. He murders his wife,

428
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: shoots his mother in law, goes to prison, marries a

429
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: fifth time, escapes somehow gets paroled after all of this,

430
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 1: and flees to Oregon. Now what in the world, Now, this,

431
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: to me is the reason the book needs to be written.

432
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: You're like the only one calling Frank out.

433
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 3: There was some of the Christs stories with him even

434
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 3: before all of that, but we did call him out.

435
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 3: And I was lucky enough to meet his son by

436
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 3: his fourth wife, who was a baby the night he

437
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 3: murdered his mother in cold blood, and he told me

438
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 3: he gave me Frank's prison records. Frank had made this

439
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 3: old He'd made a briefcase out of leather there in

440
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 3: the prison. You could tell it was tooled. You can

441
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 3: tell that it was made in a prison or at

442
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: a summer camp. You remember making all those leather little well,

443
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 3: that's what it looked like, and it was full of

444
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 3: all of his paperwork and all this stuff and the research,

445
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 3: and he was going to free himself, and he finally

446
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 3: did it. But anyway, his son told me, he said,

447
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: I won't call him father or dad. Of course Frank's did,

448
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 3: but he said, I will not call him my father.

449
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 3: And he said, in fact, I drove down to Texas

450
00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: and spit on his grave.

451
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,159
Speaker 2: And he was raised has grandmama, the one that Frank shot.

452
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 3: He was raised by his maternal grandmother.

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00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 2: Yes, well, I'm going to quote you again.

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00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,880
Speaker 1: I can still picture Kathy the last time I saw her,

455
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: three of us girls watching her, determined to get home.

456
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,120
Speaker 1: We had no idea what was to follow. Many times

457
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: I've wished I could go back and change the past.

458
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: What I can do now is share this story so

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00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: that all these years later, Frank Davis will not get

460
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: away with murder.

461
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 2: That's pretty powerful, honey.

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00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 3: Well, thank you. It's coming from the heart.

463
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm telling you, there's nothing like childhood friends.

464
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: There is nothing like that bond. I don't think there's

465
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: hardly anything deeper except when you have children. But I

466
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: just think you know every single thing when you're thinking

467
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: about those summers and your adventures and going to camp

468
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: and skateboard and going to school and buying new clothes,

469
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:05,200
Speaker 1: and you know all the secrets that are told in

470
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 1: the clubhouse type stuff. There's just no comparing that to

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00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: anything else in your life.

472
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 2: You're right.

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00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 3: She died thirteen years old. She had her whole life

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00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 3: ahead of her. She'll now live on in my book.

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00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 2: Amen. Right on, y'all. I'm going to end Zone seven

476
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 2: the way I always do with a quote.

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00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 1: And when I saw this quote, I thought of Biddy immediately,

478
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: and Kathy. Time doesn't take away from friendship nor just separation.

479
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: Tennessee Williams.

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00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: I'm Cheryl McCollum, and this is Zone seven,