WEBVTT - Kim Deal 0:00:15.516 --> 0:00:22.876 Pushkin. Kim Deal is an indie rock icon. In the 0:00:22.876 --> 0:00:25.156 mid eighties, she joined The Pixies as the band's original 0:00:25.156 --> 0:00:28.796 bassist and co vocalist. After the release of their debut album, 0:00:28.836 --> 0:00:31.756 Come On Pilgrim in eighty seven, followed by the classics 0:00:31.756 --> 0:00:34.916 Surfarosa and Doolittle, Kim took a break from the Pixies 0:00:34.956 --> 0:00:38.116 to form her own band, The Breeders. With the help 0:00:38.116 --> 0:00:40.796 of Kim's twin sister Kelly on lead guitar, The Breeders 0:00:40.796 --> 0:00:43.956 released a couple of EPs and four studio albums, including 0:00:43.996 --> 0:00:48.236 the platinum selling nineties hit Last Splash. After a run 0:00:48.236 --> 0:00:51.356 with The Breeders opening up for Olivia Rodrigo's worldwide Guts 0:00:51.356 --> 0:00:53.956 Tour this year, Kim Deal is once again heading out 0:00:53.956 --> 0:00:56.716 on her own with the release of her first solo album, 0:00:56.876 --> 0:00:59.556 Nobody Loves You More. The album was recorded by the 0:00:59.636 --> 0:01:03.236 late Steve Albini, a close friend and longtime collaborator of Kim's, 0:01:03.916 --> 0:01:06.716 and it features a slew of her other friends and collaborators, 0:01:06.716 --> 0:01:10.796 including Slint's Britt Walford on drums and The Breeders, Josephine Wiggs, 0:01:10.876 --> 0:01:15.076 Jim McPherson, and of course, Kelly Deal. On today's episode, 0:01:15.116 --> 0:01:17.356 Lea Rose talks to Kim Deal about working with Steve 0:01:17.396 --> 0:01:20.276 Albini on The Pixie Surfer Rosa and why he always 0:01:20.356 --> 0:01:24.796 regretted a specific contribution to that album. Kim also recalls 0:01:24.796 --> 0:01:27.756 recording The Breeders' first two albums, and she remembers how 0:01:27.796 --> 0:01:30.116 a group of surfers on a druggy trip to Nantucket 0:01:30.236 --> 0:01:36.556 helped inspire her new lead single, Coast. This is broken 0:01:36.596 --> 0:01:39.956 record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. 0:01:40.796 --> 0:01:43.436 Here's Lea Rose in conversation with Kim Deal. 0:01:48.116 --> 0:01:52.956 Let's talk about the first song from that upcoming solo album, Coast. 0:01:53.836 --> 0:01:56.276 So tell me about that. How did that song come about? 0:01:56.476 --> 0:02:01.396 Was the inspiration the song was written sort of in 0:02:02.756 --> 0:02:09.676 twenty nineteen something like that maybe, but sitting down riding 0:02:09.716 --> 0:02:12.916 the guitar chords and wanting to come up with what 0:02:12.996 --> 0:02:15.996 I thought it sounded like. And what I wanted to 0:02:16.236 --> 0:02:19.516 talk about was this period of time back when I 0:02:19.596 --> 0:02:25.436 was staying in Nantucket in the off season in like 0:02:25.596 --> 0:02:29.716 two thousand. I was living a very druggy sort of 0:02:29.756 --> 0:02:31.796 life in New York City and I thought I needed 0:02:31.796 --> 0:02:33.996 to clean up, so I went to Nantucket. What I 0:02:34.036 --> 0:02:36.716 did was I got a lot of drugs. I go 0:02:36.996 --> 0:02:39.796 and put them on the island and did them. Eventually 0:02:39.796 --> 0:02:43.476 I just got I just decided I can't do this anymore. 0:02:43.556 --> 0:02:45.876 And one of the things I always will remember are 0:02:45.916 --> 0:02:50.676 these young island off season workers, you know, looking they were, 0:02:50.756 --> 0:02:53.036 you know, there was a daytime for them. They went 0:02:53.076 --> 0:02:56.516 out and enjoyed the outdoors and they were so nice 0:02:56.556 --> 0:02:59.956 and weird and I was like so depleted, but I 0:03:00.036 --> 0:03:02.236 was hanging out with them, and then they would be 0:03:02.396 --> 0:03:05.676 yelling about the wham. Checked the wham, We checked the wham, 0:03:05.756 --> 0:03:08.396 and then they would take up the wham. Is a way, 0:03:08.476 --> 0:03:11.836 it's a mob a government model for wave action because 0:03:11.876 --> 0:03:15.356 they're on an attacket. There's no huge Portuguese sir, so 0:03:15.516 --> 0:03:17.956 they you know, need to know if there's some even 0:03:18.036 --> 0:03:22.076 a possibility of some waves. Then they would whatever they're doing, 0:03:22.116 --> 0:03:25.476 they're you know, painting job and they're getting the bar 0:03:25.636 --> 0:03:28.876 ready for the evening jobs, and they would run to 0:03:28.916 --> 0:03:32.036 the ocean, you know, get with their stuff and their 0:03:32.036 --> 0:03:37.196 boards out and their wetsuits. They had the waters cold, yeah, 0:03:37.516 --> 0:03:40.316 and it was just like it was so the idea 0:03:40.396 --> 0:03:44.556 that people were doing an outdoor activity. It was really 0:03:44.676 --> 0:03:48.276 nice to see that. Yeah, And I always have a 0:03:48.276 --> 0:03:52.036 fond memory of that thinking about that, and I just 0:03:52.156 --> 0:03:55.796 like wham. I thought it was cool anyway, and I 0:03:55.796 --> 0:03:58.516 had always stuck with me, and so that's what the 0:03:58.996 --> 0:04:02.916 songs basically. I recorded it as Steve Albini's. Lindsey Glover 0:04:03.196 --> 0:04:06.396 is the drummer. Mondo Lopez is the bass player. He's 0:04:06.396 --> 0:04:09.716 the base player for the Breeders Too Long Time. 0:04:10.436 --> 0:04:13.316 Yeah, was he the one who was in the I 0:04:13.356 --> 0:04:15.996 watched an old documentary. It was like a Dutch documentary 0:04:16.036 --> 0:04:21.276 from I think like he was Yeah, yeah, yeah, from Yeah, Yeah. 0:04:21.916 --> 0:04:24.596 I liked Los Readers. I was wondering what happened to 0:04:24.636 --> 0:04:25.196 that lineup. 0:04:27.996 --> 0:04:33.196 I was in New York City and I was thinking 0:04:33.316 --> 0:04:37.276 I would get I was recording trying to kind of 0:04:37.356 --> 0:04:40.636 Rivington and Christie down like a two about two thousand 0:04:40.876 --> 0:04:50.116 or something, and I was in a bar, surprisingly and 0:04:50.316 --> 0:04:53.316 there were some dudes in there. It was really close 0:04:53.356 --> 0:04:55.516 to the studio and I liked them a lot, and 0:04:55.636 --> 0:04:59.916 they told me they were playing with leaving the singer 0:04:59.956 --> 0:05:02.796 for Fear. They were in Fear. Now obviously this is 0:05:03.156 --> 0:05:06.316 the og guy's in Fear. But there was a show 0:05:06.356 --> 0:05:08.116 and they were playing, and now they were hanging out 0:05:08.116 --> 0:05:11.596 in the bar and I their studio nearby. You guys 0:05:11.636 --> 0:05:14.476 want to go hang out? And we played all night long. 0:05:15.156 --> 0:05:18.876 They were such good players. And I told them, I'm 0:05:18.916 --> 0:05:21.116 going to follow you guys out. Where do you guys live? 0:05:21.436 --> 0:05:24.516 And they said East La. Wow. I said, I'm going 0:05:24.556 --> 0:05:27.116 to follow you out to East La. They were so 0:05:27.236 --> 0:05:30.076 surprised when I got there. I didn't even know what 0:05:30.356 --> 0:05:32.676 East La was, but I soon found out. When I 0:05:32.676 --> 0:05:34.876 got out there. In East La, everybody was so cool. 0:05:34.916 --> 0:05:36.916 I think they told everybody to be cool to us, 0:05:37.076 --> 0:05:40.236 and everybody was. They were probably been cool anyway. And 0:05:40.236 --> 0:05:42.476 we would go to Vernon that was where a rehearsal 0:05:42.476 --> 0:05:46.916 space was and we rode up Title TK and all 0:05:46.956 --> 0:05:50.396 those guys were on Title TK and then got It 0:05:50.796 --> 0:05:52.636 also they were on Mountain Battles too. 0:05:53.556 --> 0:05:54.076 Got It. 0:05:54.436 --> 0:05:57.356 Yeah, But during I wasn't living there during Mountain Battles. 0:05:57.356 --> 0:06:00.276 I was living there during Title TK. I went to 0:06:00.356 --> 0:06:03.756 rehab after the tour for Title TK. I went to rehab, 0:06:04.236 --> 0:06:06.036 so then I moved back to my parents' house. 0:06:06.476 --> 0:06:08.276 And you moved back to your parents. 0:06:08.036 --> 0:06:10.076 House after rehab. 0:06:10.756 --> 0:06:12.436 After rehab to take care of your mom. 0:06:12.516 --> 0:06:12.996 Is that right? 0:06:13.156 --> 0:06:19.236 No, I couldn't taken care of anybody. They picked me 0:06:19.316 --> 0:06:22.916 up from rehab and they drove me back home and 0:06:23.196 --> 0:06:26.036 they told me on the way home long was diagnosed. 0:06:26.036 --> 0:06:29.076 But she was fine. I guess once you've diagnosed, there 0:06:29.116 --> 0:06:32.556 are some obvious signs within the family that there's some trouble. 0:06:32.876 --> 0:06:35.276 But it wasn't huge. You know how thing have you 0:06:35.276 --> 0:06:38.636 ever dealt with anybody with Alzheimer's or dementia? 0:06:38.676 --> 0:06:39.476 I have it. 0:06:39.476 --> 0:06:41.356 It starts a little bit at a time and then 0:06:41.396 --> 0:06:43.396 it gets worse. So it was it was pretty new. 0:06:43.476 --> 0:06:46.556 So yeah, no, that she was. I wasn't taking care 0:06:46.596 --> 0:06:51.676 of her. Okay, Yeah, I landed there, got it? Yeah? 0:06:51.876 --> 0:06:54.636 What was rehab like? Do you feel like it was effective? 0:06:54.676 --> 0:06:57.076 Did the rehab work? What was your experience like there? 0:06:57.116 --> 0:06:59.436 Oh? I loved it. I loved being loved, I loved 0:06:59.476 --> 0:07:01.876 being sober. I loved not drinking. I had a great time. 0:07:01.916 --> 0:07:03.996 Haven't had a drink since so too. 0:07:05.196 --> 0:07:06.116 That's incredible. 0:07:06.316 --> 0:07:09.756 Yeah, I really liked it. I really like it still. Yeah. 0:07:10.276 --> 0:07:11.476 Do you miss smoking pot? 0:07:12.316 --> 0:07:17.316 I do I miss smoking cigarettes? Oh, got no serruts anymore. No, 0:07:17.476 --> 0:07:19.636 Sometimes I go past a big cigarette cloud and I'm 0:07:19.676 --> 0:07:22.436 just like, oh my god, that's soap god. 0:07:22.756 --> 0:07:25.156 Yeah, so you miss it, you miss the weed, you 0:07:25.156 --> 0:07:26.796 miss the cigarette, the smoking stuff. 0:07:27.116 --> 0:07:29.036 I've heard that the weed isn't the same and it's 0:07:29.116 --> 0:07:32.116 kind of a bummer, like you get too stoned or something. 0:07:32.156 --> 0:07:34.436 But I would smoke. I had to quit because I 0:07:34.476 --> 0:07:38.076 was awake and baked person, so like everything, Like, I 0:07:38.076 --> 0:07:41.036 didn't just smoke when I drank. I smoked, you know, 0:07:41.596 --> 0:07:43.636 two packs a day. Yeah. 0:07:43.716 --> 0:07:47.836 Yeah, So I saw on Reddit people are saying that, 0:07:47.876 --> 0:07:50.276 I guess you have a collection of hundreds and hundreds 0:07:50.356 --> 0:07:53.636 of solo songs that you've written over the past, like 0:07:53.716 --> 0:07:58.356 twenty years. But is this collection the new Kim Deal 0:07:58.436 --> 0:08:01.356 album that's coming out. Is that all new songs or 0:08:01.396 --> 0:08:03.156 is that some of old stuff mixed in. 0:08:04.836 --> 0:08:08.556 I don't have hundreds and hundreds of songs, so I 0:08:08.596 --> 0:08:12.476 wish I did, but I don't. Thanks for rubbing it 0:08:12.516 --> 0:08:18.636 in and now I feel like I'm just haven't been 0:08:18.716 --> 0:08:19.516 doing anything. 0:08:19.596 --> 0:08:22.076 No, that was not the intention. 0:08:24.476 --> 0:08:26.516 They are new songs, you know what, though, there are 0:08:26.596 --> 0:08:31.316 two that are not. But if you just follow me, 0:08:31.676 --> 0:08:35.516 you'll see why these two had to be on there. Okay, 0:08:35.716 --> 0:08:37.516 one of them is, are you mind that was a 0:08:37.556 --> 0:08:39.996 solo song that I've released on a seven inch okay, 0:08:40.156 --> 0:08:42.196 but I did it on a three eighty eight task 0:08:42.316 --> 0:08:48.116 Camp that's consumer grade. That is a quarter inch tape. 0:08:48.596 --> 0:08:50.996 The task Am three eighty eight looks like a huge 0:08:51.116 --> 0:08:54.396 four track machine and it's but it's got one driver 0:08:54.636 --> 0:08:57.276 and so it's consumer grade. It's not really no good. 0:08:57.876 --> 0:09:00.356 That's what I recorded a seven inch on for Are 0:09:00.396 --> 0:09:06.196 You Mine? Lindsey Glover Mondo. This guy named Jeffrey played 0:09:06.196 --> 0:09:10.756 guitar on it. I played guitar on it, saying eight 0:09:10.836 --> 0:09:15.276 tracks we played at the same time, miked us all up. 0:09:15.996 --> 0:09:20.396 But it's an old dumb machine and it lost track eight. 0:09:20.836 --> 0:09:24.676 So the guitar player, Jeffrey, his beautiful guitar playing was gone. 0:09:24.996 --> 0:09:27.316 You can hear it when you play our in mind. 0:09:27.396 --> 0:09:29.276 You could hear it in the distance. It's like a 0:09:29.356 --> 0:09:32.836 ghost track. So of course I'm going to try to 0:09:32.876 --> 0:09:35.876 fix it. So I take the quarters tape and put 0:09:35.916 --> 0:09:39.356 it on a different three eighty eight. That consumer grade. 0:09:39.476 --> 0:09:42.476 You can't go from one machine to the next. Basically, 0:09:42.476 --> 0:09:45.876 it's a cassette tape, a big, bigger cassette tape. It 0:09:45.916 --> 0:09:49.356 won't go and play it sounds warble and out of pitch. 0:09:49.956 --> 0:09:52.996 So to me, not recording always sounded a little broken. 0:09:53.116 --> 0:09:55.556 I like it, but to me it was like, oh man, 0:09:55.836 --> 0:09:59.996 too bad, yeah lah lah. So we re recorded it professionally. 0:10:00.316 --> 0:10:04.796 We recorded in Dayton, Ohio. I'm sorry, in Dayton, Kentucky. Oh. 0:10:05.036 --> 0:10:08.956 We drove from Dayton, Ohio to Dayton, Kentucky. It's one 0:10:09.476 --> 0:10:13.636 and one minute, one minute away from one shitty place 0:10:13.676 --> 0:10:16.876 to an even shittier place, let's say that. And then 0:10:16.916 --> 0:10:21.436 we Londo was going through town. He was he was 0:10:21.476 --> 0:10:23.836 on stage with Morrissey. He was playing bass in the band, 0:10:24.436 --> 0:10:26.116 so he said he would do it. So we got 0:10:26.116 --> 0:10:29.636 some time. Lindsay flew out from LA and we recorded 0:10:29.676 --> 0:10:32.556 the basic tracks over again, and then I finished it 0:10:32.636 --> 0:10:35.716 up at Albini's and then there's a pedal steel on it, 0:10:35.876 --> 0:10:38.796 and then there's strings added on to it. So I 0:10:38.876 --> 0:10:40.956 really like the way it turned out. So but that's 0:10:40.996 --> 0:10:44.516 why I recorded that song. And then which I was 0:10:44.716 --> 0:10:47.356 is the other song on the new album that has 0:10:47.396 --> 0:10:50.956 been released as a as a seven inch. Already got it, 0:10:50.996 --> 0:10:54.476 but it has vocals. It always had lyrics, but I 0:10:54.636 --> 0:10:57.956 never could make the lyrics sound cool. I'm sang on 0:10:58.236 --> 0:11:00.996 the seven inch version of Wish I Was. And Kelly 0:11:01.116 --> 0:11:03.676 told me it didn't sound good. Just release it as 0:11:03.676 --> 0:11:07.196 an instrumental. Look, that's my sister telling me. It's like, yeah, 0:11:07.196 --> 0:11:10.316 it says not great, but still ash. That's harsh, Kel. 0:11:11.076 --> 0:11:12.916 But I did it and it sounded cool. I released 0:11:12.996 --> 0:11:16.276 it as an instrumental, but I always liked how you know. 0:11:16.316 --> 0:11:19.316 I even took wish I Was and I went to Australia. 0:11:20.116 --> 0:11:22.836 I was doing a Pixie's tour. I stayed over late. 0:11:23.476 --> 0:11:25.676 I went to the studio. I thought, I can get 0:11:25.676 --> 0:11:28.596 some Australian players. We can pull up wish I Was. 0:11:28.916 --> 0:11:31.236 This time I can sing on it. I have it, 0:11:31.316 --> 0:11:33.516 I've got it unlocked. It's gonna sound cool like this 0:11:34.156 --> 0:11:36.676 three four short of a country song. There was even 0:11:36.716 --> 0:11:39.516 petal steel on it down there nice And I didn't 0:11:39.556 --> 0:11:41.636 like it. It is okay? 0:11:41.796 --> 0:11:44.156 Is Kelly usually the last person you play stuff for. 0:11:44.396 --> 0:11:46.076 Is she like the ultimate judge? 0:11:46.396 --> 0:11:48.356 Oh? Because you know if somebody, you know, how many 0:11:48.356 --> 0:11:50.796 of you wear something, you said you like this, and 0:11:50.956 --> 0:11:52.716 somebody goes, yeah, you look good. You don't like it, 0:11:52.756 --> 0:11:56.516 you go okay, great, and you change totally because it doesn't. 0:11:56.796 --> 0:12:00.076 But it's nice to ask somebody, because when you show somebody, 0:12:00.236 --> 0:12:03.316 you look at the outfit differently, you know, in a 0:12:03.356 --> 0:12:06.236 different way. But it's not what they said. It's how 0:12:06.276 --> 0:12:09.996 you're looking at the whole thing yourself what I'm talking about. 0:12:10.516 --> 0:12:12.876 Yeah, it's like your mind is already made up anyway, 0:12:12.916 --> 0:12:15.156 but you're just asking to ask, but you're already gonna 0:12:15.156 --> 0:12:15.876 do what you're gonna do. 0:12:16.316 --> 0:12:19.636 I'm not sure it could be. This could be okay, 0:12:20.196 --> 0:12:24.916 but seeing it the process of standing there and with 0:12:24.996 --> 0:12:28.596 another person in the room, like whenever somebody's listening to it, 0:12:29.396 --> 0:12:32.476 I hear it in a different way. Yeah, in ir 0:12:32.556 --> 0:12:36.796 respect of what their experience was. They could like it. 0:12:36.836 --> 0:12:38.476 They could turn around and go, I really like that, 0:12:38.556 --> 0:12:42.436 and I could be cringing the whole time. It's odd, No, 0:12:42.516 --> 0:12:44.116 I understand that. Yeah. 0:12:44.276 --> 0:12:46.596 Is Kelly on the on your solo stuff. 0:12:46.796 --> 0:12:49.276 Yeah, she's on the lot, She's on Coast, She's doing 0:12:49.316 --> 0:12:53.116 the guitar on Coast and then Disobedience. There's a song 0:12:53.196 --> 0:12:57.316 she's doing guitar all over Disobedience, and she's doing bass 0:12:57.356 --> 0:13:00.156 pedals on a song called Crystal Math. She's got a 0:13:00.196 --> 0:13:03.476 cool set up, a cool bass pedal setup, and she's 0:13:03.556 --> 0:13:08.596 hitting those bass Pedals and Jim McPherson is too oh awesome. 0:13:09.716 --> 0:13:13.116 Tell me about working with Albini. First time you met him. 0:13:13.516 --> 0:13:18.036 I was giving him a nash from Urge over Kill. 0:13:18.116 --> 0:13:22.156 His room name's Nate. I was giving Steve and Nate 0:13:22.396 --> 0:13:29.596 a ride in Boston to the studio Q Division, and 0:13:29.716 --> 0:13:34.476 Steve was producing the Pixies at Q Division, and Steve 0:13:34.596 --> 0:13:38.956 was They were playing this cassette tape in the car 0:13:38.996 --> 0:13:41.516 because they had done some stuff in reverse or something, 0:13:41.556 --> 0:13:44.196 and they thought it was really cool. But then that's 0:13:44.196 --> 0:13:46.436 the first time I met him, giving him a ride 0:13:46.476 --> 0:13:52.956 to Q Division to be the engineer recordist. He would 0:13:52.996 --> 0:13:55.156 never want to use the word producer. 0:13:56.156 --> 0:13:58.356 Yeah, I was curious about that. So he Moore was 0:13:58.396 --> 0:14:01.396 just an engineer and he liked to kind of stay 0:14:01.436 --> 0:14:03.836 out of things and not give his opinion. 0:14:04.956 --> 0:14:09.156 Oh he has lots of opinions, he might say that, 0:14:10.876 --> 0:14:14.596 But you know, I think what happened, like okay, during 0:14:14.596 --> 0:14:17.036 that period of time, he had a lot of ideas 0:14:17.036 --> 0:14:19.516 and we did, and he had this thing that he 0:14:19.556 --> 0:14:22.916 was taping us that we didn't we knew he was taping, 0:14:23.076 --> 0:14:25.236 we didn't know which parts he was taping, and then 0:14:25.276 --> 0:14:29.156 he spliced it into the album, and it was hilarious. 0:14:29.196 --> 0:14:32.236 It was really fun. I loved it. But then I 0:14:32.276 --> 0:14:37.396 think towards you know, later on, while he was working, 0:14:37.636 --> 0:14:41.356 I know that it bothers him to think that he 0:14:41.436 --> 0:14:47.876 would suggest anything to alter any decision that a band 0:14:47.916 --> 0:14:51.476 would make, or have any influence at all. He told 0:14:51.636 --> 0:14:54.716 Iggy Pop he was a plumber. He's not, you know 0:14:54.916 --> 0:14:56.676 what I mean. I don't know why he had to 0:14:56.716 --> 0:15:00.236 go all that way. I like his ideas. He had good, 0:15:00.396 --> 0:15:01.396 cool ideas. 0:15:01.556 --> 0:15:03.916 You know, well, I think it came because of that 0:15:03.956 --> 0:15:06.396 Pixies album. He's I heard him talking to Mark Marin. 0:15:06.476 --> 0:15:10.236 He said, because he inserted himself so much made that suggestion. 0:15:10.996 --> 0:15:14.276 He didn't like the fact that for history, the rest 0:15:14.276 --> 0:15:16.636 of history, the band would have to answer to his 0:15:16.756 --> 0:15:20.956 decision and talk about why that was on the record 0:15:20.956 --> 0:15:23.716 when it wasn't their idea anyway. And I think that 0:15:23.756 --> 0:15:24.516 bothered him. 0:15:25.076 --> 0:15:27.756 I have a feeling he doesn't know that we were choking. 0:15:28.756 --> 0:15:33.316 I think he thinks maybe I don't know, because I 0:15:33.356 --> 0:15:36.556 don't get it. He feels so much remorse about that. 0:15:36.716 --> 0:15:40.716 You know, there was this movie called Stripes where there 0:15:40.756 --> 0:15:42.716 was a guy named Francis and he was a real 0:15:42.796 --> 0:15:45.596 paranoid guys. Don't touch me, don't touch me, don't touch 0:15:45.596 --> 0:15:47.236 any of my stuff, don't even look at that sort 0:15:47.236 --> 0:15:50.236 of thing. And Bill Moorey looks at him and says, 0:15:50.316 --> 0:15:53.796 lighten up, Francis. So me and Charles were doing a skit, 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:57.596 and what's on there is him saying to me, don't 0:15:57.636 --> 0:16:02.836 touch my stuff something like that. I think Steve might 0:16:02.916 --> 0:16:06.996 have clips that moment and thought maybe it was a 0:16:07.036 --> 0:16:10.276 moment of real I could see him loving to put 0:16:10.356 --> 0:16:14.436 that moment on the album. He might have thought he 0:16:14.516 --> 0:16:17.956 was putting a real, vulnerable moment of us, right. I mean, 0:16:17.996 --> 0:16:20.676 I've told him it was I don't know, but I 0:16:20.716 --> 0:16:23.596 don't I'm not I've never heard him say that he 0:16:23.716 --> 0:16:26.156 thought it was real. But why else would it bothered 0:16:26.236 --> 0:16:30.436 him so much? Nobody really talks about it. Maybe I 0:16:30.556 --> 0:16:32.716 make me think that there might have been something else 0:16:32.756 --> 0:16:36.596 he might have done that he hated that he maybe 0:16:36.676 --> 0:16:39.876 made a really bad choice, and he sees it. Maybe 0:16:40.516 --> 0:16:44.156 it came to realize that some of the I don't 0:16:44.196 --> 0:16:46.076 know some of Maybe there's some of the arguments he 0:16:46.196 --> 0:16:49.556 might have had in the studio that went his way. 0:16:50.556 --> 0:16:54.676 Maybe he realized, as I do it's probably everybody does that. 0:16:55.636 --> 0:16:58.636 Listening to it at you know, five years later, it's like, 0:16:58.796 --> 0:17:00.156 oh my god, they were right. 0:17:01.476 --> 0:17:04.516 Hmmm yeah, could be. 0:17:05.796 --> 0:17:08.596 Yeah, but you said Mark barn that that specifically was 0:17:08.636 --> 0:17:09.436 bothering him. 0:17:10.116 --> 0:17:12.396 Yeah, he talked about that exact thing, but. 0:17:12.396 --> 0:17:15.596 That wasn't a problem for us personally. Maybe he didn't 0:17:15.676 --> 0:17:17.716 like to be asked about it, maybe he was being 0:17:17.756 --> 0:17:18.596 asked about. 0:17:18.356 --> 0:17:20.996 It, or maybe somebody else in the band came to 0:17:21.076 --> 0:17:23.516 him and had an issue with it after and that's 0:17:23.556 --> 0:17:24.596 why no. 0:17:25.956 --> 0:17:26.236 Knew. 0:17:27.596 --> 0:17:28.276 Yeah, I don't know. 0:17:28.676 --> 0:17:30.116 Yeah. Yeah. 0:17:30.156 --> 0:17:31.956 He also said that you were one of the best 0:17:31.956 --> 0:17:34.676 people he's ever worked with, and you're the real deal. 0:17:34.716 --> 0:17:37.036 And yeah, he really likes me. We're like family. We 0:17:37.076 --> 0:17:39.236 were like family. Yeah. 0:17:39.356 --> 0:17:40.996 What was it like working with him? Like, how was 0:17:40.996 --> 0:17:43.956 it different than other engineers or I know, he doesn't 0:17:43.996 --> 0:17:46.796 like the word producer, but other people you had collaborated with. 0:17:46.876 --> 0:17:49.436 Well here's why. Okay, people might think he's a big 0:17:49.476 --> 0:17:52.436 dick about not liking it. He was a big asshole 0:17:52.436 --> 0:17:54.756 from not liking the word producer. But back in the 0:17:54.836 --> 0:17:58.196 day as a producer, if I was to produce Natalie Cole, 0:17:58.316 --> 0:18:02.116 I would hire out the studios and the musicians. I 0:18:02.116 --> 0:18:05.236 would also have worked closely with Natalie to pick out 0:18:05.636 --> 0:18:09.236 all of the songs that people have submitted that we 0:18:09.276 --> 0:18:12.956 would be covering and trying out with the new musicians 0:18:13.196 --> 0:18:16.396 as we rehearse this record together. I would probably also 0:18:16.996 --> 0:18:20.036 have hired the musical director to work over the arrangements 0:18:20.076 --> 0:18:23.116 with her. Maybe we'd start with the piano, just me 0:18:23.756 --> 0:18:26.916 as a producer of the record in Natalie and a 0:18:26.916 --> 0:18:30.116 pianist and a musical arranger or something a musical director. 0:18:30.756 --> 0:18:34.196 So the producer is very involved. I think in the 0:18:34.276 --> 0:18:37.116 old days that's what a producer did. So there are 0:18:37.196 --> 0:18:43.436 bands that just love Albini and he is available to anybody. 0:18:43.796 --> 0:18:46.396 You call up the studio, he might answer and book 0:18:46.436 --> 0:18:49.996 your session, or somebody there who's at the desk will 0:18:50.076 --> 0:18:53.236 just book it two days. You know, you want to 0:18:53.276 --> 0:18:55.876 go in without being this is what it costs. Okay, 0:18:55.996 --> 0:18:59.756 see you there. And so they come in and he's 0:18:59.876 --> 0:19:03.676 never heard of them, He's never you know, he'll do 0:19:03.716 --> 0:19:06.876 it professionally. I'll make sure he has the tape. Then 0:19:06.916 --> 0:19:09.476 he'll know how many, what the setup, the mic setup 0:19:09.476 --> 0:19:11.916 will be, so it will all go quickly as possible. 0:19:12.756 --> 0:19:15.716 But you know, if they put produced by Steve Albini 0:19:15.836 --> 0:19:19.956 on the record. Then it kind of sometimes can look 0:19:20.116 --> 0:19:24.636 like they went there to get produced by Steve Albini 0:19:24.676 --> 0:19:27.916 on the record sort of sometimes because it's not really true. 0:19:27.956 --> 0:19:31.356 And so you know, he recorded it and he did 0:19:31.436 --> 0:19:36.076 he was the engineer, but he wasn't the producer. Who right, 0:19:36.436 --> 0:19:38.196 I mean he had never heard the songs. How could 0:19:38.236 --> 0:19:41.076 he produce it without ever hearing the songs? He didn't 0:19:41.196 --> 0:19:45.716 produce the recording at all. He recorded the recording, right, 0:19:45.916 --> 0:19:48.796 So I think that's what he was saying that It's 0:19:48.836 --> 0:19:53.156 not like he doesn't like producer. It's like he doesn't produce. 0:19:53.276 --> 0:19:56.836 So it's just would bother him because it's not true, right. 0:19:56.716 --> 0:19:58.996 It's not technically what he's doing, It's not at all 0:19:59.036 --> 0:19:59.636 that makes sense. 0:19:59.796 --> 0:20:02.836 Yeah, after a quick break, we're back with more from 0:20:02.916 --> 0:20:09.676 Lea Rose and Ken Deal. We're back with more from 0:20:09.796 --> 0:20:10.236 Ken Deal. 0:20:11.316 --> 0:20:14.036 When you first started working on the first Breeders album, 0:20:14.076 --> 0:20:15.716 how is that different than you had when you had 0:20:15.716 --> 0:20:16.596 worked with the Pixies. 0:20:17.636 --> 0:20:21.116 We were up in Edinburgh and Scotland and we were 0:20:21.116 --> 0:20:24.316 there for I think eleven days, and I had Tanya 0:20:24.476 --> 0:20:29.516 and Josephine and Carrie and Britt Walford. You know, Steve 0:20:29.716 --> 0:20:32.916 is the one who introduced me to Britt Walford to 0:20:32.956 --> 0:20:37.396 be the drummer of the band. You know, he loved 0:20:37.556 --> 0:20:40.956 you know, Slint and Britt. He's an eighteen year old 0:20:41.076 --> 0:20:48.236 kid out of Kentucky. Jorl Lane is so jiller. He's 0:20:48.436 --> 0:20:53.396 not a good drummer, bread awesome drummer. It's insane. He's 0:20:53.436 --> 0:20:55.716 so cool. He's on some of the solo stuff, you know, 0:20:55.796 --> 0:20:57.676 that's one thing I really and he's on this record. 0:20:58.356 --> 0:21:00.596 That's one thing I really think. It's cool about this record. 0:21:00.636 --> 0:21:03.516 Like I've played with I've known Britt in the eighties. 0:21:03.596 --> 0:21:07.356 It was eighty nine. He passed out at the pub 0:21:07.436 --> 0:21:09.756 down the road and they do this thing with blacked 0:21:09.756 --> 0:21:12.396 out your face if you pass out. He came back 0:21:12.436 --> 0:21:15.396 to the Edinburgh studio and he had black ash all 0:21:15.436 --> 0:21:18.996 over from the chimney sort all over his face. It 0:21:19.076 --> 0:21:21.556 was done with love. I mean they loved it, of course, 0:21:21.636 --> 0:21:27.196 but they totally shooded them up. So it was really 0:21:27.316 --> 0:21:30.596 we had a good time. It was really fun. I 0:21:30.636 --> 0:21:31.076 loved it. 0:21:31.716 --> 0:21:34.476 How did it feel for you just creatively, like leaving 0:21:34.796 --> 0:21:37.276 or not leaving it because you weren't leaving the Pixies 0:21:37.356 --> 0:21:39.516 yet right, you were still in the Pixies like on 0:21:39.556 --> 0:21:42.916 a break, that's right. How did it feel for you 0:21:43.076 --> 0:21:45.916 creatively to have this different band? 0:21:46.036 --> 0:21:48.316 That's a weird question, Like how did it feel to 0:21:48.356 --> 0:21:53.436 get your hair cut? It felt like the wind and blowing. 0:21:53.516 --> 0:21:55.876 It's just like, I don't it didn't feel I don't 0:21:55.916 --> 0:21:57.836 know what. I don't have an answer to that question. 0:21:58.556 --> 0:22:02.236 How did it feel to do music? 0:22:03.156 --> 0:22:05.516 Was it exciting? Because now I was exciting. 0:22:05.516 --> 0:22:07.756 I mean, it's always exciting. It's exciting to do records 0:22:07.756 --> 0:22:11.716 with the Pixies too, super exciting. Yeah, I was excited. 0:22:11.756 --> 0:22:13.716 I was excited to be in Edinburgh in a new 0:22:13.796 --> 0:22:14.556 place and. 0:22:14.676 --> 0:22:18.076 Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I'm just guessing from the 0:22:18.116 --> 0:22:20.076