WEBVTT - Beyond Unprecedented Times 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.720 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to wok F Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.080 Meet your Girl Daniel Moody. Pre recording from the Home 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:24.680 Bunker during our holiday rest week. Folks, as we wind 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:28.880 down the last seven years of bringing you WOKF, I've 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:35.199 wanted to give you some of our best of Revisit 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:38.559 these conversations that I think are really important for us 0:00:38.600 --> 0:00:41.520 to hold on to as we trudge our way into 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:44.879 this brand new world. Donald Trump in a couple of 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:48.720 weeks is going to be sworn in as a forty 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:52.120 seventh president of these United States, and he was most 0:00:52.200 --> 0:00:56.040 likely will be the last democratically elected president of these 0:00:56.160 --> 0:00:59.600 United States. And so I thought it was important to 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:04.600 go back to a conversation that I had with our 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.959 friend gentalb about Donald Trump running for office in the 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:14.800 first place as a twice impeached former president with multiple indictments, 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:20.080 and recognizing that we have long since left precedented times. 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.600 This is not normal. And I think that it's so important, 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:29.720 folks to remind ourselves of that, because they want to 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.800 make the abnormal seem normal. They want to make it 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:39.400 seem okay that a white supremac apologist, a man that's 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.280 multiple has multiple indictments, a man that said, can you 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:45.600 do me a favor though, A man that's been accused 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.240 of sexual harassment and adjudicated for rape, a man that 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.520 has called Mexicans rapists and murderers, that said that black 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:57.680 people come from shithole countries. A man that has ripped 0:01:57.680 --> 0:02:01.920 families away from each other and pledges to do mass 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.960 deportations in his second term. None of this is normal, 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:09.960 and we should never normalize it. We should never allow 0:02:10.040 --> 0:02:13.800 ourselves to just say, well, you know, it is what 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:17.959 it is. We have to remember our power in these moments. 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:22.160 We have to remember our light in these episodes of darkness, 0:02:22.720 --> 0:02:26.799 and we have to remember to remember who we are. 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:31.240 So in this conversation with Gentobb that we revisit, we 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:35.079 talk about all the ways that this isn't the America 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:38.400 that we want to be living in, and so what 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:43.760 do we do. Take a listen, folks, I am always 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:49.320 so happy when one of my friends, fellow nerd Avenger, 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.480 just fellow colleague in the space, who loses their mind. 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:57.880 Regular bathists try to keep direct with the news cycle. 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:02.639 Gentib joins Okay daily. You know her. She's a law 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.399 professor and the author of Big Dirty money and other 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:09.280 people's houses. And she is the host of Booked Up 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:12.120 with Gen Tobb, Jen. 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:14.320 Danielle. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:19.640 Where to begin in all honesty in the legal landscape 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:25.920 or minefield that is America these days? But because I 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.440 don't have my medication present, let's not talk about the 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.960 Supreme Court, shall we? Let's just talk about the Donald Trump. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:43.080 But so here's what we know. Judge Aileen Cannon, who 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.240 should have recused herself but didn't and is still overseeing 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:51.760 Jack Smith's documents case against Donald Trump. Folks. I know 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:53.560 that there are so many cases, so it's hard to 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.680 keep track, but let us start with the document's case 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:01.960 has set a court date for May twenty fourth, I 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:06.800 believe twenty twenty four. Uh so five twenty four, twenty four, 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:11.720 ha ha on us, Jen, what do you make of 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:17.640 Aileen Cannon's moves thus far? Uh? In this in this 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:23.160 case and whether or not we will we'll see pushback 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:26.000 from the Department of Justice by way of Jack Smith 0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.440 because he said he was ready to go in December. 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:32.479 We knew that that was unlikely. But but where what 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.760 are you thinking so far about her moves and then 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.560 the timing of this trial? 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:42.000 Well, in my past life, Danielle, Like I don't know, 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:46.680 pre COVID, pre Trump, and even maybe up until a 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:49.040 few weeks ago, I tend to be a glass half 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:54.440 full person. Now I'm a the glass has been smashed 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.720 into pieces against the wall and I'm just drinking coffee 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:03.560 straight from straight became the staff, you know, kind of person. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:07.680 So but that being set, I am trying to find 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:13.320 the silver lining in the storm cloud that Eileen Cannon 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:18.599 has created for the future of democracy. Because May twenty four, 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:22.000 there's only one good two good things about that date. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:26.600 One that's literally the last I think, like the last day, 0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.360 like when grades are due spring semester for my classes, 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.920 so like I will be done teaching. So if that's 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.719 going to take over all of my time, I'm ready. 0:05:36.800 --> 0:05:40.160 That's but you know, that's the one good thing, hardly 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:42.360 enough to recommend the date. 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:43.320 But the other good. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.279 Thing is it is so far out there as a 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:52.760 preliminary date that I'm hoping that Jack Smith is ready 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:57.520 to go on the insurrection case on the January sixth case, 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.560 that we expect to be charged any day now, and 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:04.520 that a judge in DC sees it as perfect timing. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:07.600 There's no In other words, The reason why, as you know, 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:11.159 that the Justice Department pushed out the date to December 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.479 from the judge's original summer date, which wasn't going to happen, 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:18.440 was because there's some complications around how to share top 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:22.279 secret type documents that will not be the case in 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:27.440 the January sixth indictment, you know. And I think the 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:32.320 Justice Department has brought hundreds of cases involving the rioters 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:37.320 and has already the benefit of, as you know, the 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.440 special Committee investigating the attack on the Capitol. They have 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:47.040 done incredible amounts of work even before this Special Council 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.000 got involved. I think they're ready to go one day 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:53.400 in DT. So my hope is they ask for a 0:06:53.440 --> 0:07:00.320 November date October even for that case. The yeah and 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.920 the only, the only true other than the selfish motive, 0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:06.919 the only true good thing about May twenty fourth is 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:09.680 it gives the opportunity a wide open field to bring 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:13.360 the most important case against this guy, which is trying 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.080 to stage a coup to stay in office and the 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:22.760 you know, ongoing lie that that is associated with all that, 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.480 all the time between the November election when he lost, 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.520 through the attack on the Capitol and his role all 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.800 of that is feeding into his campaign and the undermining 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.880 of what little we have left of our democratic institution. 0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:40.240 So that's the bright note. Now, if there I am 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:44.840 hoping he asks for October or November or December date. 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.840 If Jack Smith doesn't, you know, I give up. I 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:49.480 really do. I don't know what to tell you. 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.640 So, I mean, we have a couple of things that 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:59.600 are brewing right and I think one of them is 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:04.080 the fact that on Donald Trump's broke ass Twitter that 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:07.240 I refer to, I guess he truth's on there. I 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:10.640 don't really know what one does on that apparatus, but 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:12.840 on that application. 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:12.680 But. 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.160 You know, he sent out a real ominous and threatening 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:24.120 video the other day which was basically saying, if you 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:27.880 come for us, will come for you. We're not afraid. 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:32.320 You know which, Jen, I'm no lawyer. That's why I 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:36.280 have you on the show. But he seems to be 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:44.560 doing the same exact things that he did prior to 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:50.000 January sixth. With the rollout of these indictments, you know, 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.960 he sends up a flare, all of mainstream media jumps 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.559 on the Trump train right, giving him once again all 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.840 just the free press that he he uses that attention to. 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:06.840 Then send out threats to Jack Smith and to others, 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:14.640 and then sends out this video basically another digital stand 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:20.080 back and stand by. So tell me how these kinds 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:24.320 of things can be used in a court of law 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:27.160 that he's doing. 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:32.760 I think once there is an indictment, assuming there is one, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:40.040 and there's a judge assigned, that judge can issue in 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:45.880 theory a kind of gag order related to specifically making 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:53.160 threats to the prosecutor specifically related to other kind of 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.920 I would say incitement activity. And the question is, you know, 0:09:57.960 --> 0:09:59.920 will the judge, Will the judge do that? 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:01.000 Uh? 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.040 You know, the the he's gotten away with so much 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.000 and a judge has to be careful in what they 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.920 do because if they're not going to actually enforce in order, 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.080 then it becomes a victory for him. You know, what 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.199 does that look like in other words, of a judge 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:22.160 makes an order and then do some sort of contempt 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.920 citation against them, is you know, is he going to 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.000 actually bring him into court? You know, we saw similar 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:33.320 activity during the Carol two trial. It was Carol two 0:10:33.400 --> 0:10:36.880 because it was brought second even though charged, you know, 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:41.240 she filed the the defamation and sexual assault case. This 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:43.560 was the second case, even though it went first and 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.200 there were things that you know, the Donald Trump was 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.720 doing on Twitter, and the judge I was in the courtroom, 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.280 you know, said to his lawyers, you got to talk 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.640 to your client, and sometimes he took down what he 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:58.960 was saying off Twitter. But then when he continued that 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:01.240 behavior after he lost the case, now that's become part 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:04.240 of the next case. I mean, Carol want it's been 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:06.120 added to that case against him. Now this is all 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:10.920 about a civil case. Right, You're more concerned about him 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.520 stand back, stand by kind of language actually creating violence. 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:19.880 I remain a little bit less concerned because when he 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:25.319 was indicted his first federal indictment as opposed to the 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:31.120 Manhattan DA indictment, the first federal grand jury indictment, we 0:11:31.160 --> 0:11:35.559 didn't see that much support for him around the courthouse 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:40.720 in Florida. Now I realized this is probably this is 0:11:40.760 --> 0:11:42.960 different because these are the same people, right, this is 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:45.280 all about But however, there are a lot of people 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:49.280 who were charged and either serve time or are going 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.840 to serve time, who feel abandoned by Donald Trump, in 0:11:53.880 --> 0:11:56.440 other words, he so they may not come and also 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.360 they may themselves not want to get arrested again. So 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.319 we've got to think about that. So I don't know 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:03.679 if you're if you're worried. 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:08.199 You know, the thing is, I wasn't stating that as 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.000 a way to say that I'm worried that his words 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:14.760 will incite the same type of violence as January sixth. 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.360 It was really about whether or not the prosecution can 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:25.160 show a pattern of behavior and did yeah, a pattern 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:32.120 of behavior and basic intent with his continued language. Now 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:38.480 you could have yeah, because my thought was if Donald Trump, 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.680 let's say, had been a normal human being and you're 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:45.439 caught doing something and then you decide I'm going to 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:48.880 back away from that said behavior so that my attorneys 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.440 can say that this was an isolated event, caught up 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:55.600 in passion, whatever bullshit kind of you know, defense is 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.680 going to be created. You could say that that was 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:03.360 an isolated of it. But over the last few years 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.960 since January sixth, we've watched Donald Trump continue to use 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:18.400 social media as a way to either virtually assault people, right, 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.840 make them a target in an attack, the same way 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:30.960 that he did with the voting staff in uh in Georgia. Right. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.760 And so my question really is like, how is the process, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:40.000 how do you feel, how can the prosecution use Donald 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:44.280 Trump's continued behavior or there for their case. 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:46.199 Yes, so it's more of a legal analysis that you're 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:49.920 asking me for. So yeah, So two ways. One if 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.880 they if the prosecution wants to bring in evidence like 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.080 as a pattern of behavior this is how he tries 0:13:55.120 --> 0:14:01.400 to obstruct and try to stir up violence. In terms 0:14:01.440 --> 0:14:04.120 of admitting evidence that his lawyers are obviously going to 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.319 want to exclude that kind of evidence, and they want 0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.320 to narrow what a jury can hear, right, And so 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:13.400 the tension in our rules of federal rules of evidence is, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:15.959 first of all, only things that are considered relevant can 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.600 be admitted. This would obviously, you know, I think it's 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.680 relevant to his intent and so on. So but the 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.000 next thing is and of course the other side, his 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.360 defense will say it's not. But even if a judge 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.720 thinks it's relevant, the judge then has to decide whether 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:35.440 something is two what's called too prejudicial to be probative. 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.440 It's this concept of you know, for example, when a 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:44.800 defendant is trial for a particular let's say, you know, 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:49.040 breaking into a grocery store to steal formula for their 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.720 kid or something. God forbid, we prosecute for that, you know, 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.040 whether they had been caught doing, you know, shoplifting something 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.680 else at a different time. You know, if a jury 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.920 gets to hear the other shoplifting, it's going to make 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.160 them think, oh, this is a bad person. I'm going 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:06.600 to convict them. And so the defense is going to 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.280 want to say, you know, that's not really relevant. What 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:13.520 they were shoplifting before was you know, I don't know Amazon, 0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.120 you know, gift cards or whatever, and that just has 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:20.480 nothing to do with this. However, you know, the idea 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:22.520 would be, well, if the way that this person did 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.800 this was similar, then we can look for a pattern 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:27.280 of behavior. But the idea is it's relevant because it 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:29.160 shows this person has the intent to take things that 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:32.760 aren't theirs. But a lot of judges would exclude that earlier, 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.800 that earlier evidence because they would say, you know, that's 0:15:36.840 --> 0:15:40.360 going to make a jury try him for being a 0:15:40.440 --> 0:15:42.600 bad person, and we don't do that in America. You're 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:45.440 supposed to be tried for your your actual offenses. So 0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:47.920 it's going to really be up to what a jury, 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:49.960 what the judge is, and how the judge rules. So 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:52.400 that's going to be an evidentiary battle. The second way, though, 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:57.080 I think is interesting, is if his tweeting or his 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:00.200 it's not even tweeting xing, or his his what that 0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:03.880 we call him now is true thing whatever, if his 0:16:03.960 --> 0:16:10.600 public statements are directed toward this particular case, and it 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.120 could be seen as trying to influence witnesses or tamper 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:19.240 with them, or somehow create threats against physical or other 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.360 threats against jurors or the court. That could be its 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.080 own kind of separate case, you know. And I don't 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.360 know if you saw this, but the other day I 0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:30.880 saw like it was it Mike Huckabee. Did you see 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.080 this thing going around on threads like he put up? 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.000 It could have been on true social maybe it was 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.840 an interview on the news, But what I saw is 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:41.280 he was on air or something saying the most important 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.760 values are loyalty, and he was like saying it was 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.240 a very weird, like if you don't get it, like 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.680 they're all out there sending signals for people to not 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.960 not squeal, you know, not rat out the mob boss. 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:01.800 And the closer he gets to this prospect of being 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.120 convicted for something in federal court, maybe he believes jail time, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.320 which I don't think would happen. But the closer he 0:17:08.359 --> 0:17:11.000 gets to that, the more desperate his moves will become. 0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:13.040 And so I think we should keep our eye on 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:14.639 both both avenues. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.960 So let's now take a little trip down south to Georgia, 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:27.159 right where we are waiting yet and again, folks, you 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:30.199 know Jen and I are having this conversation at a 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.960 time when they're when you know, we're doing our best 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.320 to read the tea leaves and shake a magic eight ball, 0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:38.560 but we have no idea when and if these things 0:17:38.600 --> 0:17:41.520 are actually coming down the pike. My assumption is yes, 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:45.000 it is why from Georgia because Fani Willis had sent 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.160 up a flair months ago telling us that between July 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:53.520 and September for law enforcement to prepare, so we know 0:17:53.640 --> 0:18:01.000 that those things are are underway. Part of Jen I 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:07.440 guess the rumors that are circulating is that Fannie Willis 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:13.040 the DA in Georgia could potentially be looking at racketeering charges. 0:18:13.560 --> 0:18:17.760 So Jen, talk to us about this, what if this big? 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:22.760 What if that we don't know yet? Why would this 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:24.080 be a BFD. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:30.560 Well, it would be a BFD because of what activity 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:35.720 you can scoop up once you decide something is racketeering 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:40.720 or a racketeering conspiracy. So there is a federal RICO law, 0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.520 and there are than state ones. And the people think 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:51.280 of RICO racketeering Influenced Corrupt Organizations Act law. They think 0:18:51.320 --> 0:18:55.520 of it as being something to get organized crime. But 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.520 that's not the only thing it can be used for. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:05.440 And the idea with racketeering is that you uh the law, 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.320 whether it's the Georgia one or the federal one, is 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:17.280 designed to criminalize, to create, criminalize a pattern of racketeering activity. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.760 So that's how the language works. And then you have 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.439 to say, well, what is racketeering activity and what is 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:25.080 a pattern? Well, racketeering activity at the federal level is 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.000 a little bit different at the state the federal level. 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:30.040 The reason why RICO was established is so that you 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:33.600 could turn into a federal crime or a pattern of 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:39.199 state criminal behavior, so as well as a series of 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.560 different federal crimes, so that we call them predicate offenses. 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:45.919 So all of a sudden, someone who's just committing crimes 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.879 like doing you know, black met or bribery or shaking 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.280 people down, or murder. At the state level, you know, 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:56.000 murdering people, you could now say, well, murder's usually a 0:19:56.040 --> 0:20:00.000 state offense. But now if it's a pattern of racketeering activity, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:03.479 if it's a if you have an enterprise, which is, 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.159 you know, a group of two or more people working 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.520 together to commit a series of murders, now all of 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:12.440 a sudden, instead of just a state crime, you could 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:14.679 charge that at the federal level, right or kidnapping, So 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:18.399 think of that. That's the federal way. Similarly, things like 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:23.280 wirefraud or counterfeiting or all kinds of other federal offenses. 0:20:23.320 --> 0:20:25.280 If someone is a pattern of it, if you've called 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:28.399 you call it a pattern of racketeering activity. Now what 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.280 you've done, If you've said, okay, Danielle, if you're at 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:33.560 the hub of this group, if you're in charge of 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.800 you know this activity. You if you set up this 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:41.280 sort of racketeering enterprise and you're either making money or 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.600 benefiting from this kind of behavior, even if you were 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:50.200 not involved in all these underlying things, if you're part 0:20:50.280 --> 0:20:54.000 of this rico enterprise, you now can be tagged with 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.399 all this other stuff. It's a way of creating a 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.919 web around a sort of amorphous activity where you cannot see. 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:02.399 So let's put Donald Trump at the center of this, 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.280 and let's look at the let's look at the efforts 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:11.320 to change the vote count in Georgia. The reason why racketeering, Now, 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:14.200 let's look at the state level. The reason why racketeering 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:17.840 would be helpful is if if Rico at the state, 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:20.920 at the Georgia level, is also criminalizing a pattern of 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.480 racketeering activity. Rico at the Georgia level has a whole 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:28.639 bunch of other types of crimes, state crimes, and some 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.280 of those are the you know, the activities that people 0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.320 like Giuliani and anyone he. 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:37.760 Was working with Graham, Lindsey Graham. 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.159 Or maybe any of the electors. And so all of 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:41.760 a sudden, you have all these people doing all these 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:45.600 different activities that were all furthering the efforts of Donald 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.080 Trump to overturn the election in Georgia. And Rico helps 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:51.280 because you might if you cannot find a phone call 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:53.760 where every single person who did bad things in this 0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.679 puzzle was told by Donald Trump to do it, it 0:21:56.720 --> 0:22:01.639 doesn't really matter. Creating this Rico theory, Rico enterprise, you 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:04.800 could now create liability for him. I don't know if 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:06.520 that makes sense to you. That's what I'm trying to 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:10.280 So that's why it's sort of a big deal, and 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.240 you know it just it just as layers of liability 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.440 and just yet another crime. And it also sounds bad. 0:22:18.720 --> 0:22:21.960 But remember he already settled Rico State Rico charges with 0:22:22.040 --> 0:22:26.480 his fake university. You know, it's not like he hasn't 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.639 been tagged with RICO before. I just think people like, 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:31.399 they think it sounds they think it sounds scary. But 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.879 the other thing is that Fawnie Willis has had success 0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:37.800 using the Georgia Rico statute before. Wasn't she involved in 0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:42.119 the whole thing about teachers cheating helping students cheat on exams? Yes, 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:43.679 So again, when you have. 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.439 An organized crime ring, it doesn't need to be a mob. 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:50.840 It doesn't need to be a mob association. Hollywood has 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:52.919 allowed us to make that connection, but that is not 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:56.879 the only connection that it has. And if we're looking 0:22:56.920 --> 0:22:59.359 and we're talking about all the ways in which Donald 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:04.560 Trump has a legal tsunami against him, it is to 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.560 pull back and say, this is an organized crime ring 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:12.000 that has engulfed an entire political party. And there are 0:23:12.040 --> 0:23:15.480 many mechanisms, much in the same way that you know, 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.800 organized crime members have different hands in different jars. 0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.280 And what's super interesting is when you say organized crime ring. 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.400 What becomes super interesting is how is the ring defined, 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:29.879 who's in it right and who's not in it right, 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:34.359 because that will tell us more about you know, who 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.159 flipped who didn't based on whether they're charged or not. 0:23:38.240 --> 0:23:39.479 And you know, we've got to go back to that 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:43.440 to remember this special grand jury report, when that woman 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:47.760 was making the rounds, who was absolutely giddy going on television. Yeah, 0:23:47.880 --> 0:23:49.679 so she told us, you know, there are not going 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:52.000 to be any plot twists. There are lots of people's names. 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.199 We're not going to be surprised to see them. You know, 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:55.720 I would like to see those. 0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:01.199 Lastly, Jen, just to think about all the ways in 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:05.520 which for a normal person the walls would be closing 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:09.840 in and this would just amount to, you know, guilty 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.240 verdict after guilty verdict. But we know that in the 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:15.880 America that we live in, where rich, white, cis hetero men, 0:24:16.560 --> 0:24:18.800 very rarely are held to account, let alone those that 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:22.000 were former presidents of the United States. I want to 0:24:22.000 --> 0:24:24.719 turn your attention to Michigan for a moment and the 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:32.199 sixteen sixteen Republican of fake electors who were caught up 0:24:32.240 --> 0:24:38.560 in that scheme, who were charged with felonies for their 0:24:38.920 --> 0:24:43.000 quote for their role in the alleged false elector's scheme. 0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:46.679 How does that? How does what is happening in Michigan 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:52.600 tie in to what is happening in Georgia and as 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:58.120 a larger part of this overall twenty twenty scheme by 0:24:58.200 --> 0:24:59.160 Trump and company. 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:02.360 Yeah, I mean it tells me. I mean, first of all, 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.320 I'm so proud of the women from my home state. 0:25:06.280 --> 0:25:09.320 You know, you know, we don't come to play. I 0:25:09.359 --> 0:25:13.560 mean I recognize, I recognize those women as people that 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:16.840 some people I grew up with him that I admire. 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:19.439 And what it tells me is a couple of things. 0:25:21.640 --> 0:25:26.639 In Michigan, the Attorney General, Dana Nessel took this case 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:30.480 back after she had referred it over to Merrick Garland. 0:25:31.680 --> 0:25:34.600 So remember Merrick Garland, you know, as in my view, 0:25:35.560 --> 0:25:38.960 was not in a big hurry to do justice when 0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:42.240 it came to anything Donald Trump was involved in. And 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:45.720 only when he announced his plan to run for office 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:49.640