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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on

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Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast Kevin

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Speaker 1: Randall with us. Kevin, let's talk again about the level

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Speaker 1: in case and then we'll move on to some others.

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Speaker 1: That was a fascinating case, wasn't it. Oh? Absolutely. One

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Speaker 1: of the things I wanted to make clear is oh,

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Speaker 1: as I said, Don Brunson had talked to the wife

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Speaker 1: and the daughter of the sheriff, and he'd gotten much closer.

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Speaker 1: But what was interesting about it. Don talked to the

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Speaker 1: mechanic for the police department and he mentioned that the

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Speaker 1: day after the sightings where the cars were stalled the

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Speaker 1: headlights were dimmed, the sheriff brought his car in and

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Speaker 1: wanted it completely checked. And I'm thinking, well, if he

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Speaker 1: didn't get close enough it for close enough to see

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Speaker 1: it and stall his car, why would he want the

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Speaker 1: car checked. It's just a subtle way of confirming that

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Speaker 1: the sheriff got very close and he observed the same

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Speaker 1: sort of phenomenon that others had reported to the sheriff's office,

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Speaker 1: and that was one of the things you can bring

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Speaker 1: into an investigation long after the situation is over and

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Speaker 1: we were able to collaborate that also the description of

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Speaker 1: the oval shaped object. I found references in newspapers. The

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Speaker 1: sheriff had talked to reporters prior to the air force

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Speaker 1: getting there, and that was where he was mentioning the

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Speaker 1: oval shaped object. So we were able to find evidence,

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Speaker 1: contemporary evidence that suggests that Cheff got very close to

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Speaker 1: the thing. And that makes the case even better because

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Speaker 1: you have law enforcement involved, you have all these other

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Speaker 1: people involved seeing the same thing and having the same

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Speaker 1: phenomenon that they observed. And you know, Paul Heideck had

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Speaker 1: told me that his father's mind about UFOs changed during

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Speaker 1: the Lonnie Zamora case in Socorral, New Mexico, the police

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Speaker 1: officer who saw that egg shaped object on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road. I think that was one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really bothered Allan Heineck because here was a

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Speaker 1: reputable source, there was physical evidence left behind, and again

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Speaker 1: by going through the files you were able to learn things.

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Speaker 1: It has been reported that the Lonnie's a More case

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Speaker 1: was problematic because it was single witness. Only Lonni's a

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Speaker 1: More sought, But there was a report written that very

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Speaker 1: night by Captain Richard Holder he had with an army

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Speaker 1: officer assigned to White Sands. His duty station happened to

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Speaker 1: be closer to Schorl than it was to Alamagordo, so

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Speaker 1: he was involved within minutes of the siding, along with

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Speaker 1: an FBI agent, and they interrogated Lonnie Zamora, the holder

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Speaker 1: that very night wrote a report that he sent off

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Speaker 1: to the Pentagon. I think he actually called it into

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon, and he reported that the police had received

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Speaker 1: three phone calls prior to Lonnie's are more seeing anything

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Speaker 1: about something in the sky sow. Now we've got a

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Speaker 1: bit of evidence that comes out of the Project Bluebook.

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Speaker 1: Nobody had really talked about with it being possibility of

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Speaker 1: other witnesses, and nobody bothered to follow up on that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Sokorral was small enough in that timeframe and

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Speaker 1: you knew the flight path. You could have gone and

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Speaker 1: knocked on doors and maybe found those witnesses because the

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Speaker 1: police didn't bother to write the names down because you're

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Speaker 1: talking about something bizarre seen in the sky, and nobody

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Speaker 1: cared about it until Lonnie's Amor made his report of

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Speaker 1: the landed craft. So you've got additional witnesses, You've got

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Speaker 1: a physical evidence left behind by the object when it

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Speaker 1: left it off, and Hector Quintinella, who was the Air

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Speaker 1: Force investigator Project blue Book, the chief of Project Bluebook

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Speaker 1: at the time, investigated it in depth. He went to

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Speaker 1: New Mexico. He had documentations that he has cleared for

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Speaker 1: any classified that projects. You have, tell him what you know.

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Speaker 1: Trying to find a solution for what Lonnie's Amor found

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Speaker 1: and he couldn't do it. And he wrote in his

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Speaker 1: own memoirs that he figured that Lonnie's a more may

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Speaker 1: have known something more unconsciously that would have explained the case,

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Speaker 1: but he couldn't find it, and he labeled it unidentified.

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Speaker 1: And so you have a case where the object is

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Speaker 1: seen on the ground, it leaves landing traces, occupants, creatures

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Speaker 1: from inside are seen, and the Air Force labeled it

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Speaker 1: is unidentified. One of I think three cases the Project

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Speaker 1: Bluebook files where they see the creatures and it's labeled

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Speaker 1: as unidentified. Most cases, if you saw or reported that

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Speaker 1: you'd seen alien creatures, well then it was you were

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Speaker 1: written off as a psychological problem. You were deluded in

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Speaker 1: some fashion. But here was a case where Zamora reported

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Speaker 1: that and the Air Force could not find an explanation

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Speaker 1: for it and wrote it is unidentified. And Kevin, I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell you, I mean the Zamora case happened

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four, five years before we landed on

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Speaker 1: the Moon. But we had been testing the Lunar module

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Speaker 1: lambs in the desert and I thought when I heard

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Speaker 1: this story, well, they're two astronauts. They're testing the LAMB then,

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Speaker 1: and this police officer saw that, I thought that for

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Speaker 1: a while, what would you think the problem with that is?

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Speaker 1: They didn't have a flying model of it in New Mexico.

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Speaker 1: What they were doing in New Mexico White Sands testing

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Speaker 1: the lander, they were using a helicopter to lift the

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Speaker 1: thing off the ground. Lonnie Moore didn't see any helicopter,

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Speaker 1: would have heard the helicopter. He didn't see anything like that.

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Speaker 1: There was no evidence. We could find no evidence, and

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Speaker 1: I say we many many people have investigated, including the

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Speaker 1: skeptical community, and they could not find any documentation of

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Speaker 1: a flight of the lunar lander in that area at

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Speaker 1: that time. They would explain the case. So that explanation

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Speaker 1: was well researched, but it just wasn't born out. So

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Speaker 1: we're left with a case where Lonnie Zamora saw something

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Speaker 1: very strange. The next day in La Madeira, New Mexico,

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Speaker 1: there was another landing and Heinik he was The Cicral

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Speaker 1: case took place on a Friday. He was New Mexico

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Speaker 1: on Tuesday. The Madira case takes place on a Saturday.

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Speaker 1: He did it go there to investigate in there for

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Speaker 1: said no, you can't. You don't do that. Come on back.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking if I Heinick got have gone up there

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Speaker 1: anyway to look at it. But here's another good case.

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Speaker 1: The Air Force wrote it off as debris burning in

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Speaker 1: a dump is what the guy had seen. But that's

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Speaker 1: a preposterous explanation. But if you've got those two cases

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Speaker 1: that close together, then I'd suggests something else is going on,

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Speaker 1: something more mysterious than misidentification of a fire in a dump.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely well with Kevin Randall's book is called the best

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Speaker 1: of Project Bluebook. Will be taking calls with Kevin next

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Speaker 1: hour here on Coast to Coast. What other issues were

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Speaker 1: in the Project Bluebook case that caught your eye? Well,

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Speaker 1: there's there's just so many things. The Washington National Sightings

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Speaker 1: from nineteen fifty two, the radar sightings. You've got radar

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Speaker 1: at three separate locations at one point showing the objects,

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Speaker 1: so it can't be some kind of a phenomenon, a

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Speaker 1: malfunction of what radar. And it removes the idea of

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Speaker 1: a weather related phenomen because the three radars are sowing

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and a weather rated weather related phenomenon

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Speaker 1: and a great picture hit the newspapers. Oh absolutely. But

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Speaker 1: I was able to talk to two of the guys

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Speaker 1: who are in the radar room on the second night

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Speaker 1: of the sightings, a Dewey Fourney and al Chop. Al

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Speaker 1: Chop was the Pentagon spokesman and Dewey Fourney was a

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Speaker 1: Pentagon las Onto Project bluebook and I talked to both

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Speaker 1: of them about that sighting, and neither one knew what

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Speaker 1: was going I mean, it was nothing they could explain.

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Speaker 1: They were there, they knew what happened, and I think

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Speaker 1: was al Chopp told me said we got really hairy once,

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Speaker 1: and I said, well, what's that about it? So well,

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Speaker 1: I really can't tell you. So I was talking to

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Speaker 1: Dewey fourne sometime later, and I said, no, al Chop

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Speaker 1: was telling me about this really hairy sighting and he's

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Speaker 1: Fourney says he had a plane got really close to

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Speaker 1: the object and was surrounded by the light. So he

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Speaker 1: told me what the hairy situation was because he thought

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Speaker 1: I alway knew what it was. But it kind of

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Speaker 1: shows that information was left out of the newspapers, was

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Speaker 1: left out of the reporting at the time, and it's

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Speaker 1: part of it's because the Air Force was very closed

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Speaker 1: minded or closed mild about what they had seen and

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Speaker 1: what was going on. And I think reporters in that

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Speaker 1: timeframe they had the idea that, well, we really can't

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Speaker 1: be visited by alien creatures, and so they were taken

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Speaker 1: an attitude that was, I am too sophisticated and to

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Speaker 1: believe in these little green men flying around and flying saucers.

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Speaker 1: And I think that attitude has changed as well as

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Speaker 1: we get the mainstream media now looking at it with

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Speaker 1: a more serious eye. In many of the cases, is

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Speaker 1: the Roswell case dead or is it still being checked into?

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Speaker 1: Still being checked into? There's leads to be followed up.

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Speaker 1: The problem we've run into is a lot of people

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Speaker 1: claiming they were involved in self fashion who were not.

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Speaker 1: And I think that mainly it's the investigators who are

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Speaker 1: eliminating these people, some of them who telling very great

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Speaker 1: stories about it, and we learned that they were probably

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Speaker 1: making their stories up. But there's a good solid core

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Speaker 1: of information there. Something clearly fell. Everybody agrees on that.

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Speaker 1: I talked to Colonel Richard Weaver just a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago about that. He is still of the opinion

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Speaker 1: that it might have been the Project Mogil balloons, even

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Speaker 1: when we look at the documentation that said the flight

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Speaker 1: that they point to, flight number four of these array

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Speaker 1: of balloons being launched in New Mexico, didn't fly it.

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Speaker 1: They had been canceled. And yet they say, wow, that's

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Speaker 1: the one that caused the fall at Roswell. But I

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Speaker 1: think that we look at it, we have to be

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Speaker 1: very careful with the information we accept, and we have

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Speaker 1: to make sure we vet the witnesses very carefully, that

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Speaker 1: they're telling us the truth. They were there at the

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Speaker 1: proper time, and their stories sort of corroborate one another.

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Speaker 1: So we've got some problematic witnesses out there. One of

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Speaker 1: the best witnesses, and I think I'm the only one

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Speaker 1: that ever got a chance to talk to him, Colonel

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Speaker 1: Edwin Easley. He was a provost Marshal at Roswell, and

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Speaker 1: the one thing that he made clear to me was

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Speaker 1: he was not supposed to talk about this because he

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Speaker 1: had been advised by the powers to be not to

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Speaker 1: talk about you, not to talk about this thing, buddy.

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Speaker 1: I think he wanted to help and he would tell

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Speaker 1: me things that related to the Roswell case that didn't

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Speaker 1: violate the oath that he took for exam. He told

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Speaker 1: me that mac Braslo had been held in the guesthouse

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Speaker 1: on the base. He was the owner of the farm

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Speaker 1: where the crash side occurred. He was a ranch manager

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Speaker 1: of where it fell. Yes, absolutely. And the other thing

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Speaker 1: that he said, I'd asked him one day, are we

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Speaker 1: following the right path? And he said, what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: I said, we think it was extra trust trial and

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Speaker 1: he said, well, let me put it this way, it's

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Speaker 1: not the wrong path. So now he's got the Provost

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Speaker 1: Marshal and nobody's ever said a bad word about him,

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Speaker 1: telling me it's Bessie, basically extra Trustrill. We had General

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Speaker 1: Xon and know that the skeptical community and the Air

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Speaker 1: Force didn't really go after Exxon's testimony. X told us

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Speaker 1: things that were going on at right Field right Patterson

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Speaker 1: Air Force Base when this all took place, about what

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Speaker 1: was being brought in and what was being seen there,

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Speaker 1: and that his involvement was flying over the crash site

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Speaker 1: some weeks later. So we have a general officer talking

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Speaker 1: about what he'd seen that relates to this thing. So

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Speaker 1: we've got very high ranking officers who were kind of

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Speaker 1: corroboring bits and pieces of this as they could. So

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Speaker 1: the Roswal case, it's not as robust as it was,

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Speaker 1: and I go in depth in Rosinal in the twenty

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Speaker 1: first century. I looked at it's kind of a cold

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Speaker 1: case and went back and reviewed the evidence that we had.

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Speaker 1: I think it's like a thousand footnotes in the book,

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Speaker 1: so that it's well documented about what happened, and the

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Speaker 1: conclusion as well. It's not as well documented. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: as robust as it was because some of the witnesses,

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Speaker 1: some of the witnesses telling it's really great stories that

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Speaker 1: fallen by the wayside. But there's a solid core of

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Speaker 1: witnesses who gave us enough information that lead just to

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Speaker 1: the extraterrestial. I have no explanation for what fell at Roswell.

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Speaker 1: I have no correstial explanation, and that kind of leads

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Speaker 1: us into the extraterrestial, and for some that's a leap

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Speaker 1: they want to take. I kind of step back from

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Speaker 1: that a little bit, but I still have no crestial explanation,

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Speaker 1: so I leaned toward the extra crestio for Roswell. Kevin Monday,

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Speaker 1: I interviewed Paul Blake Smith, who's convinced that the late

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Speaker 1: President Eisenhower met with ETS. What do you think of

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Speaker 1: that story. I don't find any good evidence to support that.

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Speaker 1: I know the stories have circulated. I think it was

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Speaker 1: at Edwards Air Force Space. He was supposed to meet

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Speaker 1: with them, right, I just don't I just don't see

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Speaker 1: a lot of solid evidence. And that doesn't mean it

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Speaker 1: didn't happen. It just means I don't have the evidence.

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Speaker 1: So I'm inclined to sort of discount it because we

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Speaker 1: don't have the sorts of things we have with Roswell,

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Speaker 1: the number of people that would have been involved in

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Speaker 1: some of them telling us little bits and pieces about

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Speaker 1: the story. I need something much more robust. There was

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Speaker 1: also supposedly the the Coral Landing nineteen sixty four. The

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Speaker 1: what Lonnie zamorrisaw was a mistake. They've landed in the

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Speaker 1: wrong place, and they landed a couple of days later

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Speaker 1: at Holloman Air Force Base. That's where they were supposed

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Speaker 1: to land, which is south of SoCoRo, and it's I

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Speaker 1: don't have good evidence for that either, but there's some

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Speaker 1: interesting things that relate to that, and I've talked about

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Speaker 1: those things in some of the other books I've done

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Speaker 1: about UFOs. I think in the Government UFO Files, I

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Speaker 1: talk about the possible landing at Holloman Air Force Base

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Speaker 1: and the end the evidence that swirls around that the

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Speaker 1: government brought in Edward Condent from the University of Colorado

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Speaker 1: to investigate Project Blue Book. Was that a setup? Oh? Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: They knew what the conclusion was going to be before

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Speaker 1: they even started. Yeah, there's documentation for that. Robert Hipler,

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Speaker 1: who was Air Force officer or Lieutenant Colonel Robert Hipler,

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Speaker 1: had written a letter to the Conde Committee says, here

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Speaker 1: what we'd like to find. We'd like you to say

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Speaker 1: some good things about the Air Force investigation. We would

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Speaker 1: like to say that there's nothing really scientific value that

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Speaker 1: will be derived from investigating UFOs and we should stop,

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Speaker 1: and that there are no sit national security implications and

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Speaker 1: lo and behold, when Condon finished his investigations, that's exactly

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Speaker 1: what he concluded, those same same things. We look at

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Speaker 1: the Air Force project Blueboo Cross. There's good stuff in

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Speaker 1: the files. It's just misinterpreted and you have to read

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Speaker 1: between the lines. You have to look for the evidence

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Speaker 1: in the files and look at everything that they've got

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Speaker 1: in the file before you can come to some of

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Speaker 1: the conclusions. But one of the points is one of

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Speaker 1: these staff members had as security clearance and I don't

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Speaker 1: know with a secret or top secret clarance, but this

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Speaker 1: was at the time the invest the sightings in Belt, Montana,

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Speaker 1: Malstrom Air Force Base where it's shut down the missile silence, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and shut down a whole flight of missiles. And the

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Speaker 1: investigator was there and he asked the UFO investigating officer

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Speaker 1: had a colonel and I always can't remember where his

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Speaker 1: name is, Chase Lewis or Lewis Chase, but asked him,

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Speaker 1: asked him about it, and he said, I can't tell you.

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Speaker 1: It's national security. So when Condon Committee, the Content Committee,

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Speaker 1: tells you that there's no national security implications in it,

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Speaker 1: a bad face lie. Because they were told flat out

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Speaker 1: in this particular instance, we can't talk about certain aspects

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Speaker 1: of it because of the national security implications. That's amazing stuff.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more