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Speaker 1: Mental health is now talked about more than ever, which

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Speaker 1: Change your Life?

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Speaker 2: Why God put me here on this planet? And how

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Speaker 2: can I, in the face of all these things, rise

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Speaker 2: up and be there from myself as much as I

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Speaker 2: can so that I am not a victim of any

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Speaker 2: of this.

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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, I've got some huge news to share with you.

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Speaker 1: In the last ninety days, seventy nine point four percent

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Speaker 1: habit of learning how to be happier, healthier, and more healed.

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Speaker 1: This would also mean the absolute world to me and

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Speaker 1: the world. Subscribe right now.

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Speaker 2: The number one health and wellness podcast, Jay Sheety, Jay

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Speaker 2: Shetty Sly, Jay set.

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Speaker 1: Lemon. Welcome to On Purpose. Grateful to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I've looked forward to sitting with you for a long

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Speaker 1: long time, and so I really appreciate your space and

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Speaker 1: your energy and for you being here. And I want

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Speaker 1: to start off by asking you what childhood memory do

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Speaker 1: you have that you feel has defined the person that

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Speaker 1: you are today or most defines the person you are today.

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Speaker 2: There's a few. There was a traumatic one that I

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Speaker 2: don't like to talk about that happened when I was

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Speaker 2: two years old that was deeply traumatic that certainly shaped

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Speaker 2: a lot of the trauma of my childhood, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the shame based parts of my childhood. My first

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Speaker 2: interactions with children are the children when I was in

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Speaker 2: sort of preschool, when I was probably five years old,

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Speaker 2: when I was bullied and called the F word and

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Speaker 2: a sissy, and the kids that I acted like a girl.

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Speaker 2: I often say the irony of my life is when

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Speaker 2: I was a child, the kids called me a girl,

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Speaker 2: and as an adult people call me a man. That

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Speaker 2: I've transitioned and accepted my womanhood. That's interesting. So it's

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Speaker 2: interesting thinking that like other people told me, I was

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Speaker 2: a girl before I sort of fully was able to

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Speaker 2: accept or reckon with it, and it wasn't a good

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Speaker 2: positive thing, you know, right, because I was assigned mail

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Speaker 2: at birth as a transperson, being called a girl with

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Speaker 2: sort of a bad thing in the eyes of the

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Speaker 2: other children. So that's an early memory in terms of

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Speaker 2: interacting with other kids, and then dancing I am during

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Speaker 2: back in the day. I think, I don't know if

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Speaker 2: there's still physical education in schools, but I'm fifty one

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Speaker 2: years old and we had pe physical education and during

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Speaker 2: free play while the other kids were sort of playing sports.

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Speaker 2: I was off to the side, dancing by myself with

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Speaker 2: music in my head, and I would sort of have

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Speaker 2: characters that I would kind of portray through movement, and

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Speaker 2: I'd be imitating what I saw on television from Solid Gold.

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Speaker 2: For those people who are my age who know solid

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Speaker 2: Gold was this show in the eighties, was a countdown

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Speaker 2: show that counted down the top hits of the week,

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Speaker 2: and they had solid Gold dancers, and there was this

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Speaker 2: beautiful black woman named Darcel Wynn who was the lead

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Speaker 2: Solid Gold dancer, and she had long hair sort of

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Speaker 2: down to her knees, and she was so sexy and

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Speaker 2: so vivacious, and so I was sort of pretending to

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Speaker 2: be Darcel as I danced in pe and free play

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Speaker 2: and then church and speaking in church almost every Sunday.

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Speaker 2: My mother reminds me that I would summarize this Sunday

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Speaker 2: school lesson every Sunday, and Children's Day was like the

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Speaker 2: fourth Sunday of every month, and I was always sort

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Speaker 2: of getting up and making speeches in church, and that

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Speaker 2: even though I'm not a religious person now I'm very spiritual.

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Speaker 2: Church was this performance opportunity. The religious part of it

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Speaker 2: wasn't affirming It was very shaming, but the performance part

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Speaker 2: of it was very affirming. Being told that I was

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Speaker 2: a speaker and that I was smart was something that

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Speaker 2: dancing and starting to study dance in third grade and

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Speaker 2: doing talent shows and then being considered a smart kid

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Speaker 2: who spoke well became my identity in terms of how

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Speaker 2: I saw myself, in addition to the identity that was

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Speaker 2: sort of placed on me that was from the other

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Speaker 2: kids and from my teachers, the bullied identity, the freak,

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Speaker 2: the sissy, the F word, the queer, all those identities

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Speaker 2: that were stigmatized were sort of placed on me. But

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Speaker 2: I also won talent shows and was a good speaker.

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Speaker 2: And there's this one moment in seventh grade. I know

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Speaker 2: you asked for one childhood member.

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Speaker 1: I this is beautiful.

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Speaker 2: But there is one moment in seventh grade where I

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Speaker 2: ran for vice president of the student council and I

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Speaker 2: remember sort of doing the campaign. I made little flyers

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Speaker 2: and stuff, and like I was this very by middle school,

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Speaker 2: I was dressing myself with things from the Salvation Army

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Speaker 2: and they were it was not quite gender non conforming yet,

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Speaker 2: but it was going more in an androgynist direction, and

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Speaker 2: I was kind of this know it all kid. I

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Speaker 2: was like, you know, raising my hand. You know, to

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Speaker 2: be the first one to answer questions in class is

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Speaker 2: very annoying. And I was chased home from school every

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Speaker 2: day by kids who wanted to beat me up and

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Speaker 2: call it, you know, this is the F word, bullied

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Speaker 2: because I was very fim. But when the year that

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Speaker 2: I ran for student council president, we all got to

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Speaker 2: make speeches, and right after the speeches, the kids voted,

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Speaker 2: and I remember the beginning of my speech was quality

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Speaker 2: is my principal and qualified is my attitude. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what I say after that, and I just remember

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Speaker 2: the kids being like and they throwed it for me,

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Speaker 2: and I became visperate than in the student council. So

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Speaker 2: this kid that like no one liked, who they made

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Speaker 2: fun of, there was something about me speaking in this

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Speaker 2: moment with this confidence and this sense of something I

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Speaker 2: don't know, maybe speaking in church every Sunday that they

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Speaker 2: voted for me, and that was a really wonderful moment

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Speaker 2: of screw you to the kids. It's like they voted

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Speaker 2: for me, but like I was also like this kid

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Speaker 2: that everyone made fun of and didn't like. So there

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Speaker 2: was you know, and looking back, and I've talked to

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Speaker 2: very few people from middle school, but like I think,

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Speaker 2: even though they all sort of made fun of me,

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Speaker 2: there was an acknowledgement that there was talent and there

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Speaker 2: was intelligence there. And how wonderful, as traumatizing as my

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Speaker 2: childhood was to create a sense of self it, you know,

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Speaker 2: reading drama of the Gifted Child, I understand that, you know,

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Speaker 2: in retrospect, my identity became a about accomplishment and not

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Speaker 2: who I was authentically. But how wonderful to be a

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Speaker 2: kid who valued education because of my mother, who was

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Speaker 2: a teacher, and had this identity that was attached to

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Speaker 2: accomplishments and intelligence and talent. That's a lovely thing, particularly

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Speaker 2: as I, you know, as a woman in the world

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Speaker 2: where so often now now fifty one year old woman

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Speaker 2: thinking about aging and who's an actress in Hollywood, and

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Speaker 2: so much of being a woman is about how we look,

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Speaker 2: and so much of how I grew up was about

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Speaker 2: my talent and intelligence and not that and that's a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing. That's a really really beautiful thing to have

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Speaker 2: those things be valued and associate it with who you are.

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Speaker 2: And so as I, you know, sort of go into

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Speaker 2: the world and do a lot of different things, knowing

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Speaker 2: that I'm talented, knowing that I'm smart, and that because

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Speaker 2: of all that training in church and do in public

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Speaker 2: speaking competitions, and you know, valuing education is still being

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Speaker 2: just a student of so many different things that I

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Speaker 2: can lead with those things, and that that those are

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Speaker 2: the reasons why I've you know, gotten to where I am.

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Speaker 2: I think, you know, on God's time, not my time.

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Speaker 2: I thought it should have happened, you know, twenty five

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Speaker 2: years ago, but it didn't happen till I was forty.

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Speaker 2: But it did happened right on time and when there

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Speaker 2: was a sense of purpose attached to it and that

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Speaker 2: there was something to say. And so that is my

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Speaker 2: another intention of today is to try to say things

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Speaker 2: in a way that people can hear. I've been grappling

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Speaker 2: a lot with how sort of anti intellectual our world is.

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Speaker 2: There's so many divides in this culture right now around

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Speaker 2: you know, liberal and conservative and all that stuff, but

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Speaker 2: it is one of the big ones is people who've

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Speaker 2: gone to college and who haven't and how they vote.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think most non college educated people vote

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Speaker 2: for the Republican Party. And then I'm an actress, but

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Speaker 2: I talk in a way, you know, I'm an intersectional

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Speaker 2: feminist and I you know, read Belle Hooks and I

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Speaker 2: just did a podcast episode dedicated to her, and I

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Speaker 2: use phrases like imperless, white supremacist, capitalist, patriarchy to evoke

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Speaker 2: bell Hooks's work. So I talk in this way that's like,

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Speaker 2: that's not always accessible. So I want to be able

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Speaker 2: to meet people where they are, but I don't want

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Speaker 2: to done myself down either. But I'm just aware of

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Speaker 2: the elitism tie to certain kinds of ways of speaking

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Speaker 2: and certain kinds of education. But I also am aware

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Speaker 2: that language. Sometimes to be exacting with language, we have

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Speaker 2: to use words like patriarchy and white supremacy and heteronormativity,

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Speaker 2: you know, to really sort of talk about what's going

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Speaker 2: on or trauma or resilience. So sometimes to really be

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Speaker 2: precise with language and exacting with language, you might come

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Speaker 2: across as a little bit elitist and grappling with that too,

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Speaker 2: just as someone now who has been a working class

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Speaker 2: person until I was like in my forties and then

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Speaker 2: now you know, have some class privilege, So just grappling

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Speaker 2: with privilege. I'm constantly sort of grappling and questioning myself

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Speaker 2: and my positionality and trying to not be this that

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Speaker 2: of touch Hollywood actress.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for connecting the dots for us. I could

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Speaker 1: see how the experiences you were having back then you

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Speaker 1: can kind of draw that line, and I could see

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Speaker 1: you kind of connecting the dots in your own mind

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Speaker 1: to where you are today. And I love that you

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Speaker 1: present your experience as so much more of a paradox

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Speaker 1: and a dichotomy as opposed to clarity, because I think

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Speaker 1: that clarity comes from the questioning and the curiosity that

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Speaker 1: you have about your own experience. Earlier, you used the

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Speaker 1: term you said you're learning to reparent. You're in a

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Speaker 1: child yes, And you could hear that in the way

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Speaker 1: you were describing the journey so far. What are parts

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Speaker 1: of yourself that you think you've spent the most time

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Speaker 1: reparenting or what does that look like?

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Speaker 2: So much of it is about how I framed my story.

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Speaker 2: I'm a Brene Brown stand slash scholar. And when we

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Speaker 2: disown our stories, we're defined by them. When we own

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Speaker 2: our stories, we can write a brave new ending. And

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Speaker 2: so much and actually, interestingly enough, on the podcast, I

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Speaker 2: was just watching one of your earlier podcasts when you

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Speaker 2: had Oprah on talking about what happened to me and

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Speaker 2: so much of the way I for many years, I

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Speaker 2: had been in denial about all my childhood trauma. Like

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Speaker 2: I was in denial about the bullying and the straight

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Speaker 2: up violence I experienced as a child, a non performing child,

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Speaker 2: and so I needed to for many years to talk

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Speaker 2: about that. I needed to reckon with that and just

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Speaker 2: acknowledge that it happened and feel the pain of that

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Speaker 2: that there was no tools to experience as a child.

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Speaker 2: And then so I sort of went from that, you know,

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Speaker 2: the what happened to me? Well, actually I went I

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Speaker 2: was what's wrong with me? And then I went to

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Speaker 2: what happened to me? And then and now I'm in

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Speaker 2: its base of like was right with me? You know,

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Speaker 2: and what happened that wasn't just traumatic but was affirming,

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Speaker 2: and that were resources and the things that sort of

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Speaker 2: helped me get through. I've been working with an amazing

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Speaker 2: therapist named Jennifer burn Flyer, who I interviewed on my

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Speaker 2: podcast twice in the first season, and we do somatic

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Speaker 2: work that is based in the community resiliency model from

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Speaker 2: the based on the Trauma Research Institute.

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Speaker 1: Do you know this work I've heard I'm familiar with it,

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Speaker 1: but not well.

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Speaker 2: But the Trauma Research Institute came up with this thing

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Speaker 2: called krim or, the Community Resiliency Model that is sort

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Speaker 2: of based in resilience, and it's sematic works. It's all

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Speaker 2: about sensing into your body and there's six tools of that,

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Speaker 2: and so we've been I've been working with my therapist

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Speaker 2: on sort of refiring and rewiring sort of the way

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Speaker 2: doctor joe It Spinza talks about it, and creating new

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Speaker 2: neurotransmitters in my nervous system and deepening my resilient zone.

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Speaker 2: So there were things in my childhood that got me

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Speaker 2: through my childhood. They're dancing and so. Yes, so acknowledge

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Speaker 2: that there was abuse and that there was bullying and

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Speaker 2: violence in my childhood, but there were also things that

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Speaker 2: got me through my life, art and dancing and reading

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Speaker 2: and performing, and those things continue to get me through,

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Speaker 2: So it becomes it's a both. And one of the

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Speaker 2: tools of krim OR, the Community Resiliency Model is shift

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Speaker 2: and stay, and it's all about sensing into your body

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Speaker 2: and shift and stay is about like I would go

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Speaker 2: into a therapy session with Jennifer, and she would say,

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Speaker 2: you know, how are you feeling today? And I was like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I'm a little anxious. And she'll ask me, where do

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Speaker 2: you feel that in your body? And often my anxiety

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Speaker 2: sort of happens in my stomach. I'm feeling a little

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Speaker 2: bit of that now, I think, just because of being

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Speaker 2: in a podcast. And then she Jennifer will invite me,

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Speaker 2: you know, is there somewhere in your body where it

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Speaker 2: feels neutral or positive and right now it's my ankle,

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Speaker 2: and she'll invite me to breathe into that and focus

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Speaker 2: my attention instead of where it's anxious, but to focus

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Speaker 2: my attention on where it's neutral and positive. So I'm

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Speaker 2: focusing and on my ankle right now, and then we

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Speaker 2: just kind of focus the energy there and invariably, if

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Speaker 2: I can focus my energy in my body where it's

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Speaker 2: neutral or positive, sometimes eventually the anxiety will dissipate, maybe

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Speaker 2: not completely, but it'll dissipate a little bit. And it's

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Speaker 2: about that's really about living in the both and in

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Speaker 2: our bodies, and it's a reminder that we become sort

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Speaker 2: of what we focus on too, literally in a somatic way.

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Speaker 2: Literally in our bodies. But I think in a sort

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Speaker 2: of more global sense as well, we become the thing

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Speaker 2: that we focus on. So and the tricky thing for

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Speaker 2: me is in my attempts to do both, and I

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Speaker 2: do the and without the both, meaning I focus on

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Speaker 2: the resilience, I focus on the neutral and the positive,

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Speaker 2: and I mean a little bit of denial of the

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Speaker 2: of the challenge, of the anxiety, of the difficult thing

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Speaker 2: that's going on in my body. And so I have

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Speaker 2: to be able to acknowledge that part too, and and

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Speaker 2: not just be in the resilience, because there's a bit

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Speaker 2: of denial there, and so I'm not in the full

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Speaker 2: truth of what's going on in my body, what's going

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Speaker 2: on with me in a moment. So being able to

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Speaker 2: like say, the anxiety, it is here. Maybe it's attached

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Speaker 2: to a story, maybe it's not. Sometimes it's just a feeling.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's not necessarily attached to a story. Often it

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Speaker 2: is or thought. And then go to the end, go

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Speaker 2: to that neutral or positive place, the resilient place, the

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Speaker 2: thing that brings me joy, but making sure that I

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Speaker 2: don't skip the difficulty that might be going on too

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Speaker 2: then be slipping into denial A little bit and you

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Speaker 2: and an effort to just sort of be.

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Speaker 3: Positive all the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because that's just not real.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, thank you so much for sharing that tool and technique.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure everyone's listening is going to try and practice

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Speaker 1: that in their own way.

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Speaker 2: What is amazing last thing I'll say about KRIM or

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Speaker 2: the community resilience, it's these There are six tools as

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Speaker 2: an app called eye Chill which breaks down the six

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Speaker 2: tools and it's and it was advised by the Trauma

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Speaker 2: Research STASSU for people who might be you know, coming

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Speaker 2: from veterans or police officers, people who are coming from

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Speaker 2: very traumatic experiences that you can take into your community

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Speaker 2: and share tools that are very accessible. Doing it is

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Speaker 2: not easy, but they're accessible tools. Shift and stay is

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Speaker 2: one of them. Resourcing with another one I mentioned gesturing

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Speaker 2: is another. Tracking is huge. You have to track what's

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Speaker 2: going on in your body. Help now. So these are

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Speaker 2: skills that are very accessible and that people can teach

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Speaker 2: to each other the practice of it. For me, the

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Speaker 2: biggest piece is slowing myself down to actually track what's

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Speaker 2: going on in my body. And we all know that

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Speaker 2: book the body keeps the score and so no matter

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Speaker 2: what is going on intellectually and all the work. You know,

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Speaker 2: I've been in therapy for twenty three years now, that

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Speaker 2: it has to land in the body. It has to

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Speaker 2: be work, that it has to be somatic. It has

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Speaker 2: to be because our body. Eighty percent of our information

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Speaker 2: comes from the body to the head and twenty percent

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Speaker 2: from the head to the body, right, And so no

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Speaker 2: matter how intellectual we are, no matter how much we

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Speaker 2: want to talk it through and understand it, our bodies

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Speaker 2: have to If there's trauma, if there's stress, our bodies

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Speaker 2: have to know it differently. Our bodies have to understand

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Speaker 2: what a healthy connection or healthy attachment is. I have

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Speaker 2: to know it in my nervous system. There's this knowing

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Speaker 2: and then there's like this knowing because of that thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you've talked about it in your podcast. But

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Speaker 2: so much happens in our lives preverbal between the ages

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Speaker 2: of one and three, one and five, before we even

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Speaker 2: have language, So many things will happen to us that

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Speaker 2: we don't have words for that our nervous systems are

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Speaker 2: tracking in those moments. And so the work of reparenting,

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Speaker 2: the work of resetting the nerve system, of deepening our

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Speaker 2: resilient zone. It's about that that somatic, that pre verbal,

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Speaker 2: that not even the prefrontal cortex, but that limpic brain,

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Speaker 2: that that piece that's like that that reprogramming, that fight

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Speaker 2: flighter freeze so that we really deepen our resilient sound. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: I could talk about.

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Speaker 1: This, No, No, genuinely, it's it's so helpful and so insightful,

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Speaker 1: and I know our community is going to love this

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Speaker 1: so far. But I want to go back to your comment.

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Speaker 1: And you mentioned a few times on how we like

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Speaker 1: to deny certain experiences and uncomfortable things and difficult things,

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Speaker 1: and I know that for a fact I've done that

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Speaker 1: so much in my life physically as well. It's so

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Speaker 1: easy to deny of physical pain thinking it's nothing, and

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Speaker 1: emotional pain sometimes even easier to do it with. But

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Speaker 1: why is denial so unhealthy? And what parts of yourself

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Speaker 1: do you still find you may deny sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Deny that is unhealthy because I mean, we're not living

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Speaker 2: in the show truth for ourselves. And there's this line

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Speaker 2: I think for Magnolia. You think you may be done

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Speaker 2: with the past, but the past isn't done with you.

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Speaker 2: That like, even when I'm in denial, there's still the

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Speaker 2: stuff is still operating in my life. Nadine Berg Harris

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Speaker 2: has a beautiful TED talk where she talks about adverse

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Speaker 2: childhood experiences and there's this wonderful research about adversity in

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Speaker 2: childhood and how excess doses of adversity is the way

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Speaker 2: she sort of puts it, in childhood can lead to

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Speaker 2: physical literal like you know, sort of asthma, diabetes, all

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Speaker 2: these health outcomes in children and then later in life,

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Speaker 2: so that when we don't deal with psychologically and emotional things,

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Speaker 2: they show up in our bodies in unhealthy ways. All

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Speaker 2: these other different things. And so when we're in denial

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Speaker 2: about a trauma we've experienced or something that is difficult

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Speaker 2: for us that is happening in our bodies, and if

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Speaker 2: we don't acknowledge it and release it, it has to go.

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Speaker 2: It has to move through and out of the body.

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Speaker 2: It can be deadly. Stress can be deadly. And my

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Speaker 2: therapist likes to talk about we talk about trauma resilience,

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Speaker 2: but then there's different kinds of trauma and different levels

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Speaker 2: and distressors. Right, stressors can like bump us out of

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Speaker 2: there's an idea of the resilient zone. She sort of

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Speaker 2: likes to encourage us to imagine like these two lines,

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Speaker 2: and that our resilient zone sort of goes in waves

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Speaker 2: between these two lines. And then there's low zone, which

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Speaker 2: is like she likes to think there's a house, and

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Speaker 2: our resilient zone is the ground floor. Low zone would

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Speaker 2: be the basement, and high zone would be the attic,

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Speaker 2: and high zone is when we're in that fight flight

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Speaker 2: or freeze and we're anxious and we're stressed and we're

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Speaker 2: just like and then low zone would be this kind

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Speaker 2: of like depressed, I don't want to get out of bed,

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Speaker 2: maybe I'm suicidal or I'm just like listless, and so

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Speaker 2: we want to have deepening. Our resilience zone is about

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Speaker 2: being able to go into lows and highs and be

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Speaker 2: in our and have emotions, but not be bumped into

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Speaker 2: that high space or bumped into that low zone. And

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Speaker 2: so if we are constantly in that high zone, and

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Speaker 2: I've been constantly in that fight flight or freeze, I'd

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Speaker 2: learned that really early that I didn't feel safe and

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Speaker 2: nowhere was safe, and so I was constantly releasing adrenaline cortisol.

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Speaker 2: That constant release of adrenaline cortisol over forty years. We're

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Speaker 2: not hardwired for that. Biologically, we're supposed to like, you know,

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Speaker 2: we see the bear in the woods, we release the

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Speaker 2: adrenaline cortisol to fight that bear, to flee that bear,

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Speaker 2: and then we go back to homeostasis. If we're constantly

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Speaker 2: what if Nadine Bergier's is, what if the bear comes

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Speaker 2: home every night? We're constantly releasing that adrenaline cordisol, and

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Speaker 2: then our we're just depleted after a while and years

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Speaker 2: of this depletion. And so I've in my forties, I

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Speaker 2: was like, why am I so tired? Why am I

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Speaker 2: so depleted? It's just all that constant survival, not ever

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Speaker 2: feeling safe, and so trying to find so much of

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Speaker 2: like deepening my resilien zone is creating safety. And if

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Speaker 2: you are a trauma survivor, much of the for triuma survivors,

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Speaker 2: we often take this is from my therapist. We take

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Speaker 2: an alarm bell and turn it into a dinner bell

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Speaker 2: because things have been wired in such a way, in

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Speaker 2: a dysfunctional way, that everything becomes an alarm everything and

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Speaker 2: so and so that's so much of our work when

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Speaker 2: we think, when we think about folks who are I'm

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Speaker 2: triggered by this. This is triggering for me, and it

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Speaker 2: could very well be. But our work individually, it's the

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Speaker 2: external thing can be triggering. But my work individually is like,

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Speaker 2: is this about what's actually going on? Or is this

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Speaker 2: about my history? When it's hysterical, it's historical. When it's hysterical,

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Speaker 2: it's historical. When I remind myself of this, when the

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Speaker 2: verness hysterical, it's probably not about what's going on in

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Speaker 2: this moment. Like, I had a moment with my boyfriend

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Speaker 2: a few months ago and we've been you know, we've

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Speaker 2: been dating for like three years and it's been lovely

433
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,719
Speaker 2: and it's been wonderful. And I have this moment when

434
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: I went into this shame spiral doing a conversation we

435
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 2: were having, just went into this crazy and I was like,

436
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 2: it was the first time with him. I felt so

437
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 2: safe with him. It's the first time with him. And

438
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 2: I was like, and it just like I was like,

439
00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: I felt myself just going into this crazy and I

440
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: was talking a lot and I was spiraling and I

441
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: was just like, babe, let me I need to go

442
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 2: to the bathroom and get myself together. He was like,

443
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 2: what's going And I sat there and I was like, Luckily,

444
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,400
Speaker 2: because I've done my shamework. I was like, okay, you're

445
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 2: in a shame spiral. You were in a shame spiral,

446
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: and we can agen it. When we can name shame.

447
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: I was like, this is not about this incredible man

448
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 2: who's so amazing to me. This isn't about anything he said.

449
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 2: This is about my own story that I just spun

450
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: myself out with. So it's historical. It's not about this moment.

451
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: So this is about some historical stuff, you know. So

452
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 2: I just had I think it was in a bathroom,

453
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 2: like thirty minutes maybe forty minutes, just kind of like

454
00:24:55,359 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 2: talking to myself, breathing and just being and really take

455
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 2: and in the moment, this is not a dangerous moment.

456
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 2: I created something historical, something historical came up for me.

457
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 2: But this is safe. And the only way I was

458
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: able to do that is like I've had like three

459
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,119
Speaker 2: years of safety with this man, So I'm like, this

460
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 2: man is incredible. So like, you know, maybe early on

461
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 2: i'd be like, this man is not safe. And you know,

462
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 2: when a man doesn't feel safe to me, or when

463
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: people don't feel safe, I'm like I'm out I've learned

464
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,919
Speaker 2: very very very quickly to get out, and so I've

465
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: got become very good at like identifying what safe spaces.

466
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: I'm like, so this is not girl, You're just spinning

467
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,920
Speaker 2: out with something. Some historical stuff, some childhood stuff, some

468
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 2: old stuff just came up for you. And so when

469
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,040
Speaker 2: once I was able to do that and regulate, then

470
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:49,920
Speaker 2: I was able to go out and say, Babe, when

471
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: it's your shame spiral, it's not about you, it is

472
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 2: what it is. And he just like held me and

473
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 2: I cried, and and what's interesting to me what I've

474
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 2: learned on I'm sure this is an experience that you

475
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 2: have interviewed so many brilliant people. I've had so many

476
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 2: brilliant people in my podcast. And so I think about

477
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: that moment through a shame lens. Right, there's a we

478
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 2: can talk about a shame spiral. We can talk about

479
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,240
Speaker 2: it through a trauma resilience piece around regulating my nervous system.

480
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 2: There's also a ten attachment piece, attachment theory piece where

481
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: there's healthy attachment with him. So there's just all these

482
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 2: different lenses that I was able to kind of filter

483
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 2: that moment through. That was that kind of brought me

484
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: back to the present and brought me into a resilient

485
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: space where I wasn't spinning out, and it was deep

486
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 2: and so like reckoning with the stories that we tell

487
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: ourselves about ourselves. It just a thought can spin us out. Right,

488
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 2: Just a thought can disrupt my nervous system. That's not

489
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 2: it's a thought. Maybe it's a comment I've seen on

490
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 2: the internet. It's a thought I could have about myself

491
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 2: that's like, oh you're a piece of shit. Oh you're

492
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: a horrible person. That could just spin me out, And

493
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 2: just like becoming aware of those thoughts and then you

494
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: know it, is this thought useful? I can let this go,

495
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: This isn't the truth? Can I reality check this thought?

496
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: Or maybe just letting go of all thoughts? You know,

497
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: there's there's in some of my meditation. I do transcentional

498
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 2: meditation too. Sometimes it's just about trying, trying imperfectly to

499
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 2: let go of all thoughts and just be just be

500
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 2: letting go of stories, letting go of thoughts, an absence

501
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: of data. We create stories as human beings or heartwire

502
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: for story, but trying to let go of story, trying

503
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 2: to let go of thoughts and just be it is

504
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: so hard, and I have those moments when it's just like,

505
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 2: you know, and I'm like, am I an airhead? You know,

506
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: I'm moving an airhead right now, and just like letting

507
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 2: go thoughts and just like ah, you know, sometimes I

508
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:00,880
Speaker 2: think like people, yeah, I don't want I don't want

509
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 2: to be judgmental, but sometimes people who are not like

510
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: intense thinkers, they just kind of like chill. Sometimes I

511
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 2: like envy those people because they're not like thinking about

512
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 2: like the sociopolitical implications and then the sort of therapeutic

513
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: and somatic implications, and then the attachment theory implications, and

514
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: then the intersectional feminism. Like there's all this stuff going

515
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,359
Speaker 2: on all the time. And then I'm an artist and

516
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 2: then like, you know, my humanity and as an artist

517
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: and like having empathy for the character and analyzing human behavior, just.

518
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: A lot going on in there.

519
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,920
Speaker 2: And so sometimes it's just I envy people who just say,

520
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: it's not a lot going on up there, and they

521
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: can just kind of, you know.

522
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, let go the thoughts. Stressing about being healthy, oh.

523
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 2: My god, especially stressful, especially as a fifty one year old,

524
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: because it's not just mental and psychological health now it's like,

525
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 2: I'm getting older and there's the question of mobility, and

526
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: I have such a problem consistently working out, but I

527
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 2: want to stay mobile, and I want to stay looking lovely,

528
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:05,040
Speaker 2: you know. And the aging piece being fifty one years

529
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 2: old and like my mom is seventy just turns seventy

530
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: three this year, and then watching her and thinking about

531
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 2: getting older and my job, you know, and I feel like,

532
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: in so many ways, my career is just getting started

533
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 2: in We're Own strike and this just it's scary aging

534
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: as a woman in Hollywood. And I think what's beautiful

535
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,800
Speaker 2: about being trans is that, like you know, the public

536
00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 2: has been very as transphobic as people are. The transphobia

537
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 2: of some people in the public has helped keep me

538
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: right sized around my appearance because sometimes I'm like, oh, Laverne,

539
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 2: you look.

540
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: Cute, Laverne is sexy, you know, Oh you look pretty

541
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: good for.

542
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: Fifty one, And then like you know, I'll read a

543
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: comment of like some she looks like a man, you know,

544
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 2: and luckily I can laugh about that. Luckily I think

545
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,479
Speaker 2: it's you know, I think it's ridiculous, and I understand

546
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 2: people are transphobic, but it keeps things in but I

547
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: also would be delusional and not in the truth if

548
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 2: I didn't acknowledge that I'm not just I've not just

549
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 2: been on multiple magazine covers because I'm smart and talented.

550
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: That there is there is a desirability politic that goes

551
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 2: into being an actress on screen in Hollywood and doing

552
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 2: a lot of the on camera work that I do,

553
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 2: and aging in that environment is scary, as a woman

554
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: in an ageis business in an ageius culture, and the

555
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 2: connection between misogyny and aging, and then being a black

556
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: woman and a trans woman and so all of that

557
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 2: is like happening too. It's so funny. I was thinking

558
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: about this. You know, I haven't done like the botox

559
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 2: or the fillers or anything to my face, but obviously

560
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: the trans woman. I'm not opposed to surgery, but I'm

561
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 2: terrified to do anything to my face. And there may

562
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: be a point when I need to or need to

563
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 2: and I don't. And it's funny. I'm like comfortable talking

564
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 2: about not having done it now, but I'm like, once

565
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: I do it, I probably won't want to talk about it.

566
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 2: So there's also that in the sort of transparency of that,

567
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: and I don't talk about as a trans woman. I

568
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 2: don't talk about surgery in terms of relationship to me

569
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: because so often that's a way to humanize chance people

570
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: and reduce us to our bodies. But it's just something,

571
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: you know, that I'm grappling with around aging and being

572
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 2: a woman. And so those are other stories and other

573
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: you know, thoughts that I spend way too much time

574
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 2: thinking about. Maybe because I'm on strike. We're on strike

575
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: and I have a little more time. I don't know.

576
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: I was going to say that I actually find it

577
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: remarkably comforting to hear someone open up and tell me

578
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: the genuine, real, honest thoughts that they're having, because I

579
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 1: think all of us are actually having those in our

580
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: own world, in our own universe, whether you're an actress

581
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, or whether you're someone who's dropping your kids

582
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: to school, or whether you're me or whoever you are, like,

583
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: I think all of us have a kind of interesting tapestry.

584
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: You've lived so many chapters of your life. If this

585
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: chapter had a title right now, what would it be called?

586
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 2: Fifty one Fabulous and Anxious as hell?

587
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: That's that sounds like a great chapter. It's a fun

588
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: champing to read. I don't know, it's fun to live too.

589
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 1: I guess it is what it is, and it's it's

590
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: you know.

591
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 2: I interviewed Glennon Doyle. She's so amazing and what I

592
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: love about her, what I love about Brene Brown is that,

593
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: like we so much in the wellness space, we hear

594
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,840
Speaker 2: about sort of how people are the sort of the

595
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: result of the struggle and not the struggle. And I agree,

596
00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 2: I need to sort of be with people in the struggle.

597
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: I need to like understand what folks are because that's

598
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 2: what I can connect with. People who have it all together.

599
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: I don't relate to that. And as much as people

600
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 2: may think I have it all together and I girl,

601
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 2: I am and a gorless into neutral and this case

602
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 2: girl like compared to ten years ago to create fifteen

603
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: years ago, Laverne has grown. I've done so much work

604
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: on myself to be even just being able to be

605
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:32,160
Speaker 2: in an intimate relationship and tolerated and like tolerate the

606
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 2: vulnerability and the uncomfortable things like, There's been so much growth.

607
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm so much more evolved than I was

608
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: ten years ago, fifteen years ago, certainly twenty years ago.

609
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that I'm not still struggling with

610
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,960
Speaker 2: things that like the world. I mean, honestly, just being

611
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 2: just being a trans person in twenty twenty three is.

612
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,760
Speaker 3: I mean, I could, I could cry, and I.

613
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: Love being trans, but there's an a on my community

614
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 2: legislatively and rhetorically that is having real world consequences on

615
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 2: people who I know and love. They are families fleeing

616
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 2: states right now, which is insane to me because of

617
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 2: the laws that criminalize parents who you know, support their

618
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 2: trans kids, could criminalize doctors and healthcare professionals, and that's

619
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 2: not unrelated to the you know, people who need to

620
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,000
Speaker 2: flee stays because of abortion restrictions and being a public

621
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,320
Speaker 2: figure who too, whose trans, who's you know?

622
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 3: You know.

623
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: I was in the cover of Time magazine nine years

624
00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 2: ago with with the headline the transcender tipping Point, and

625
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 2: there was a sense that there was so much progress

626
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 2: being made around transvisibility and trans acceptance. And that's certainly

627
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: speaking of both, and that certainly is happening and has

628
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:55,319
Speaker 2: happened in a lot of ways. But we inevitably, when

629
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 2: there is a social justice movement where people sort of

630
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: come forth and there's more acceptance, there's inevitably backlash, and

631
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 2: we are like eyebrows deep in the backlash right now.

632
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 2: On a legislative level, twenty states right now have banned

633
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: gender firming care for young people. This year Loan, over

634
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: five hundred pieces of legislation have been introduced in state

635
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 2: legislatures all over the country, targeting the LGBTQ community at large,

636
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 2: mostly trans people, mostly drag artists. It's it's insane, and

637
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 2: it's supported by our media that is so sort of siloed,

638
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: you know, right where people can just like get this

639
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 2: confirmation bias that's deeply stigmatizes trans people and LGBTQ plus

640
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 2: people in general, and don't hear from real trans people

641
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,960
Speaker 2: and don't get our human stories and our beautiful humanity.

642
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: And it's scary. A dear friend of mine, Chase Stradio,

643
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 2: who works through the CLU, is they're fighting all these

644
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 2: things in the courture right now. On Friday, he was

645
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 2: arguing two different appeals for two different states where they've

646
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: banned gender from and care in Tennessee and I think Oklahoma.

647
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 2: It's just a scary time when the government, when the

648
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:12,480
Speaker 2: state is targeting your ability, and for years they were

649
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,080
Speaker 2: sort of saying that this is about children. It's about

650
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,320
Speaker 2: protecting children. And you know, earlier this year's state, i

651
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:20,439
Speaker 2: think it was Oklahoma, passed a law that would prevent

652
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 2: gender from and care up to the age of twenty six.

653
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: My home state of Alabama, I'm from obil Alabama banned

654
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: gender from and careup to age of nineteen. You know,

655
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:29,719
Speaker 2: there's other states that you know, So it's not it's

656
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: never really been about the children, right, It's always been

657
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 2: about doing what the Daily Wires Michael Knowles proclaimed at

658
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 2: Sea pack erasing transgenderism from public life. That has always

659
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 2: been the project. And to hear that stated so emphatically

660
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: and then seeing it play out on a state, on

661
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: various states is scary. It's really scary. And so there's

662
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,720
Speaker 2: that piece of like, how do we as trans folks,

663
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 2: just like our mental health, how do we sort of

664
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 2: deal with that? And so what it's been crucial for

665
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: me as a public figure but also just as a

666
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 2: person who loves trans people and the person who's been

667
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 2: just terrified by all of this. It's like, how like

668
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 2: understanding that the narrative about who we are has been

669
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 2: hijacked and there's a deep propagandistic misinformation campaign that's going

670
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: on around our identities, that it is leading to legislation

671
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 2: that seeks to erase us from public life. But there

672
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: is a reality of our lives. There's a reality of

673
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 2: our existence. There is a reality of our beauty and

674
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: our talent and our anointedness that I'm amazed by. I'm

675
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: so blessed to have a group of trans people in

676
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: my life who I marvel at. I was in La

677
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 2: like in July, and we were doing something with Hardness

678
00:37:56,200 --> 00:38:00,879
Speaker 2: Foundation about the relationship between reproductive rights gender firming care.

679
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: It's interesting, but not ironic that as access to gender

680
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 2: firming care, bodily autonomy for trans people is being taken away.

681
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 2: Body of autonomy for people can get pregnant is also

682
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 2: being taken away on a state level, on state levels

683
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: all over this country. And then a dear friend of mine, Peppermint,

684
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 2: we were hanging out afterwards and we were talking and

685
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 2: she was telling me about this situation she was dealing

686
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: with a man, and I was she was telling me

687
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: about this, and I was looking. I was I had

688
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: watched her at this event that we were at, and

689
00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 2: I was just I was just marveling, and how smart,

690
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: how charismatic, how resilient, how incredible she is as a

691
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: human being, and all the bullshit she was dealing withod

692
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:42,759
Speaker 2: from this man, and I was just like, I was like,

693
00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 2: do you know how beautiful you are? Do you know

694
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 2: how amazing and talented and just what a light you

695
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: are just because of who you are and that you're

696
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 2: I just am so honored that you're my friend, and

697
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: you happen to be trans, and your transness is part

698
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 2: of why you're such a light, you know. And I

699
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,440
Speaker 2: just have trans people in my life who are lights

700
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 2: like that, who are just epic and beautiful and amazing.

701
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: And then there's this, like these narratives about who we are,

702
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: and I just would love for people to get to

703
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: know us and get to see what I see when

704
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: I see trans people. And so that's what I have

705
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:28,360
Speaker 2: to hold on to our humanity, our beautiful humanity, and

706
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 2: shout it from the rooftops, and then surround myself continually,

707
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: surround myself with the beautiful trans people in my life

708
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: who I just who are anointed, you know. I always

709
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 2: like to remind people that in indigenous cultures all over

710
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 2: the world, trans people were considered spiritual creatures who are

711
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 2: spiritual leaders. In India the hydra, you know, pre colonialism

712
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 2: were you know, folks wouldn't get married or have a

713
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 2: christening without the presence of a hidra. And they understood

714
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 2: that if if they got a blessing, their child got

715
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: a blessing from the hydra, that their child would be okay,

716
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,360
Speaker 2: be better. We have two spirit people here in the

717
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 2: native communities here in the United States, the mahu and Hawaii,

718
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: and in the Philippines. There all indigenous cultures.

719
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:17,319
Speaker 1: All over the world.

720
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: They were third and fourth gender traditions. So trans people

721
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,440
Speaker 2: aren't new. Non binary people aren't new. We've always existed

722
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 2: in pre colonial communities, and so wellness for me and

723
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: mental health cannot be divorced from structures of domination like

724
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 2: white supremacy and CIS normativity and patriarchy. And you know,

725
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 2: colonialism is synonymous with a gender binary that necessarily erases

726
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 2: the natural occurrence of people who exist outside that binary.

727
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 2: And so when we have conversations about health and well being,

728
00:40:57,120 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 2: we have to understand that I personally know from my

729
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 2: own experience that as a black trans woman for working

730
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: class background raised in Mobile, Alabama, that I internalized deeply

731
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 2: transphobic things about myself that I had to unlearn deeply

732
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: racist things about myself and my community that had to unlearn.

733
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 2: So part of my mental health journey has been unlearning transphobia,

734
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 2: my internalized transpobia, and learning my internalized white supremacy and

735
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 2: anti blackness so I can love myself more so that

736
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 2: I can love the people around me more. And understanding

737
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: that we're all raised in a culture that teaches that

738
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: for me, creates so much empathy for people who might

739
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: be struggling with that, who might not understand the extent

740
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,360
Speaker 2: to which they've internalized transphobia or white supremacy, and so

741
00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 2: I can give them a lot of grace because I've

742
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: been there too. I've been transphobic. I still have transphobic

743
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 2: ideas and thoughts that I have to unlearn and check

744
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 2: myself with, and that is part of my mental health.

745
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,080
Speaker 2: I've said on my podcast and I say in life

746
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: that they're you know, it's like fifty percent of things

747
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: I have fifty percent. I don't know if it's fifty percent.

748
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 2: The other structures are the things that we internalize. Where

749
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 2: on White Supremacy, Bell hook says, imperiless white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy,

750
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 2: I add to that, cisnormative, heteronormative, imperiless, white supremacist, capitalist patriarchy.

751
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: The structures that we sort of exist under, these intersecting

752
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 2: structures of domination, is the way Belle Hooks would put it.

753
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: But then there's the fifty percent of like, what's my

754
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 2: part in it? What is the fifty percent? I'm responsible

755
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 2: for my life, right, and so I'm more responsible. I'm

756
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: able to take more responsibility when I'm educated, when I

757
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: have an education for critical consciousness. So in this world

758
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: that is anti intellectual, that is where we're defunding schools,

759
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 2: that education becomes so critically important so that we can

760
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 2: like take full responsibility for ourselves and our lives. And

761
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: the education is around mental health. That education is around

762
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: health in general. It's around these structures, it's around understanding capital.

763
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 2: Right that there's so many people who are frustrated. You know,

764
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 2: my boyfriend who's he's considerably younger than me, he makes

765
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,960
Speaker 2: a wonderful living, can't buy a house right now because

766
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 2: real estate prices are just so insane. And that's not

767
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: because he's not working hard. He's working sixty eighty hours

768
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 2: a week and he makes a lovely living. But the

769
00:43:19,160 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: system is set up in a way, this capitalist system

770
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: where home prices are just like, it's out of reach

771
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 2: for so many people, so like, and that can cause

772
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: us mental and emotional stress. But if we understand that

773
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 2: there is a system in place that it's keeping a

774
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,920
Speaker 2: generation of people from being able to buy their homes,

775
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 2: that can help give us some perspective and hopefully not

776
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,879
Speaker 2: feel like we're not enough, because I think a lot

777
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: of I see this happening to him where it's like

778
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 2: I'm doing everything I'm supposed to do, and I think

779
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: we and he happens to be a straight white man,

780
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 2: and so there's all these conversations now about crisis around men,

781
00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 2: and there's a you know, I don't know if you

782
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 2: would agree with that, but I think so much of

783
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: that crisis, especially when I see, you know, dating a

784
00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: very attractive, you know, dirty blonde, blue eyed, straight white

785
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,879
Speaker 2: man that this you know, that the world has told him,

786
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: this is what you know should be available to you

787
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: as a straight white man who's attractive and who works hard,

788
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 2: and then these things are not available because of a

789
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 2: system in place that it really is designed to keep

790
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:31,680
Speaker 2: you know, people, a lot of people down, whether you're black, white, whatever.

791
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,240
Speaker 2: And so I think so much of the cognitive dissonance

792
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 2: now and we've displaced that we say that that feminism

793
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 2: is the is the reason right. I see if you

794
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,759
Speaker 2: if you go into the manisphere on the internet, you'll

795
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 2: you'll hear a lot of men saying, oh, feminism is

796
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 2: the reason why, or or you know, diversity and inclusion

797
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: programs are the reason why, when maybe you know, you know,

798
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,320
Speaker 2: predatory capitalism and corporations who have a fiduciary responsibility to

799
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:02,160
Speaker 2: their shareholders and no one else. Maybe that's why you

800
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 2: the promise of what you're supposed to have in this

801
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: country as a straight white man. Maybe it's not the

802
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:15,600
Speaker 2: fault of immigrants or feminism or diversity and inclusion programs.

803
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 2: Maybe it's this capitalist system that is lied to you

804
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:24,040
Speaker 2: and told you. And so I think having that critical

805
00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 2: awareness for me is a part of mental health. For me,

806
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 2: having a critical relationship to the world around me on

807
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,719
Speaker 2: a systemic level is part of me having a perspective,

808
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 2: placing things in perspective and so that like I'm not

809
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 2: it reduces the beating myself up, It reduces the like

810
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,399
Speaker 2: I should be working harder, I should be doing more

811
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 2: I'm not enough, and you know, it doesn't absolve me

812
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 2: of responsibility for my life saying because I think there's

813
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,440
Speaker 2: a mentality of saying, oh, racism is this, I'm never

814
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 2: going to get to where I need to go. We

815
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 2: can do that, or we can say racism is this, sexism,

816
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: is this misoge new war transfer?

817
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:08,960
Speaker 3: All of these things are true.

818
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: But I'm here. But I'm here, and I have an

819
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 2: opportunity in this corrupt system. How can I navigate? How

820
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 2: can I negotiate within this system and to let my

821
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,640
Speaker 2: light shine to be on purpose? Why am I here?

822
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 2: Why has God put me here on this planet? And

823
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 2: how can I, in the face of all these things,

824
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: rise up and be there for myself as much as

825
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: I can so that I am not a victim of

826
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: any of this. I refuse to be a victim. That

827
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 2: I can say to myself in the face of all

828
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 2: of this, I'm going to proceed in the world with dignity,

829
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 2: with self respect, with love for myself, with love for

830
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 2: other people, and a deep, deep passion for what I do,

831
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: and a passion for getting better. And it's gonna be okay.

832
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 1: Wow, I'm genuinely in awe of how someone can internalize

833
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,959
Speaker 1: what's going on around them and at the same time

834
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 1: remain independently thoughtful about what that means.

835
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 2: It's work. It's worth to stay separate, to detach from that,

836
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:29,880
Speaker 2: to not become hopeless around it. There have been moments

837
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: this year when I have felt deeply hopeless and deeply

838
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 2: sort of unempowered in like how we're going to sort

839
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: of fight this and when when I think it was

840
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:43,360
Speaker 2: when the gender firming I think it was Oklahoma that

841
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 2: when they banned gender firming care up until the age

842
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 2: of twenty six, I was like, Okay, we have to

843
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 2: change this narrative. And it just something clicked for me.

844
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: And sometimes I have to go away and think and

845
00:47:54,239 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: I have to strategize, and it's not I can't always

846
00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 2: just be on TV or be on a on a

847
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,360
Speaker 2: you know, picket line or at a protest. Sometimes have

848
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:04,800
Speaker 2: to go and think and strategize. It's like, we have

849
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 2: to change this narrative, and I cannot have the conversation

850
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 2: about who I am on these terms that have nothing

851
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,560
Speaker 2: to do with me, all of the terms that they're

852
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,800
Speaker 2: set forth that have deeply dehumanized trans people. When senators

853
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 2: are asking Supreme Court candidates about what is a woman,

854
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 2: and they're talking about mutilating children. All that is deeply

855
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: dehumanizing of trans people. What those people who do not

856
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: want trans people to exist in public life have done

857
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:40,520
Speaker 2: very successfully propagandistically that have led to legislation that take

858
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,360
Speaker 2: away the body of the autonomy and the rights of

859
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 2: trans peoples. That they've dehumanized us to such an extent

860
00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 2: where people can have conversations about lg some people can

861
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 2: have conversations about LGBTQ plus people without equating us with

862
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 2: things that don't even like to repeat. I don't want

863
00:48:57,920 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 2: to repeat any of those narratives, but I think you

864
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 2: know some of the disparaging to humanizing, very retrograde narratives

865
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: that we can trace back to the nineteen seventies, right,

866
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 2: what about the children? All those sorts of things, so

867
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 2: understanding deeply that I will not have my identity be

868
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 2: up for debate, that my access to gender affirming care

869
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 2: is actually no one's business. It is between me and

870
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:29,120
Speaker 2: my doctor, and that the access even for children is

871
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 2: actually not up for debate if you're not a healthcare professional.

872
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 2: It blows me away. All of the sort of journalists

873
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 2: and all of the sort of people who feel like

874
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 2: it is fine, Oh, children getting gender affirming care and

875
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 2: having access to dien different. That is up for debate, right,

876
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 2: we can debate that because children DA DA DA DA,

877
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:51,240
Speaker 2: When the American Academy for Pediatrics, when the Indegree Society,

878
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 2: when they're you know, all of these different your very

879
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,440
Speaker 2: reputable organizations say that this is the way that we

880
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 2: should treat transgender children, and this is the use of

881
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: the protocols with parental consent, et cetera, et cetera, and

882
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:09,560
Speaker 2: all these other people say well, we have to debate this. No, No,

883
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 2: it's actually if you're not a trans child, the parent

884
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 2: of a trans child, or a healthcare professional, it's actually

885
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 2: none of your business. And I feel the same way

886
00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 2: about reproductive rights. I feel the same way. If you're

887
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,759
Speaker 2: not a person who can get pregnant in need of

888
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 2: an abortion, it's actually none of your business. And I

889
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,600
Speaker 2: think that that, for me, needs to be the conversation.

890
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: It's deeply empowering for me to say that to myself

891
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,600
Speaker 2: and to say it publicly that it is actually none

892
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 2: and it's dehumanizing. It is deeply dehumanizing for people to

893
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:50,120
Speaker 2: sit on televisions and on podcast debating my access and

894
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: the children's access to a care. I mean, if a

895
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:57,800
Speaker 2: child had cancer, we wouldn't be having debates about what

896
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 2: whether this. I mean there's side of all sorts of

897
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 2: side effects to chemo therapy, but we would defer to

898
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 2: the experts on that. Nicole Mayns is a brilliant, beautiful

899
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 2: trans woman who is an actress. She played Dreama on Supergirl.

900
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 2: She's just so incredible, and she transitioned as a child.

901
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: I recently interviewed her on my podcast and it was

902
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:24,719
Speaker 2: so lovely to hear from a child. She's in her

903
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 2: early twenties now, but she transitioned as a child. And

904
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 2: so many of these conversations again that people are having

905
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 2: about trans kids and they're not talking to any of

906
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,080
Speaker 2: the kids, And then the kids are saying there was

907
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 2: a recent story The New York Times ran where all

908
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 2: this whistleblower, you know, said that this clinic was doing

909
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: all these things, and then the parents, these parents came

910
00:51:44,800 --> 00:51:46,520
Speaker 2: out and said, well, no, the clinic wasn't doing this,

911
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,040
Speaker 2: and that my child was treated well. And the children

912
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 2: are saying all these things, and the children are saying

913
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:52,600
Speaker 2: that we would treat it well, and the parents are

914
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 2: saying that we would treat it well, and then they're

915
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: just going with this other, whole other narrative. So people

916
00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 2: aren't even listening to trans people. They're not listening to

917
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 2: the parents are trans people. So they've just hijacked the

918
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 2: narrative and they're not listening to us. And underneath all

919
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:09,880
Speaker 2: that is them not wanting us to exist. And if

920
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: we think about it, then if you go back to

921
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,279
Speaker 2: the beautiful podcast you, I would oprah, what happened to you?

922
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:23,360
Speaker 2: If you don't, if you're so deeply invested in stigmatizing

923
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,359
Speaker 2: trans people and saying that trans people are mentally ill,

924
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,320
Speaker 2: if you don't know somebody trans, if you don't have

925
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,719
Speaker 2: a trade, how does it even affect you, How in

926
00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 2: the world does it affect your life? What happened to you?

927
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 2: And so that's the empathetic piece that I have, that

928
00:52:40,640 --> 00:52:44,360
Speaker 2: that people are in these times that we live in,

929
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 2: people are in so much pain, and I think that's

930
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 2: why we have so many wellness podcasts and things, and

931
00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 2: people are so people are in so much pain for

932
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:55,520
Speaker 2: so many reasons, and so many of those things are systemic.

933
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:58,440
Speaker 2: So many of those things are about unhealed childhood, trauma,

934
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 2: not having language, which were skills, neighborhoods that have just

935
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 2: been completely divested from poverty, income, inequality, so many structural things,

936
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 2: so many, you know, interpersonal things, so many, so much

937
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 2: unhealed childhood trauma. It is an inside job when it

938
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,680
Speaker 2: comes to my healing, but it is also a structural job.

939
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: It is also that we can't just charity our way

940
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,759
Speaker 2: out of it, do philanthropy our way out of it.

941
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,040
Speaker 2: We have to our governments have to invest in schools

942
00:53:32,120 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 2: and communities and mental health in a serious way. And

943
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily have faith in our governments. So then

944
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 2: what do we do then do for ourselves and for

945
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:46,279
Speaker 2: each other? And whenever I have a problem, you know,

946
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm less there these days, But when I used to

947
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: have problems with other people, it's usually about an insecurity

948
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 2: that I had with myself, and so I had to

949
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 2: take a moment with myself and to self reflect. Media

950
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 2: literacy becomes so crucially important in this moment. You know,

951
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 2: Sometimes I get into arguments with my boy friends specifically

952
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,840
Speaker 2: about something, and will I'm like, well, let's check that source,

953
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:15,200
Speaker 2: and then like, let's cross reference this source with this source,

954
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 2: and which one is more reputable, so that we're I'm

955
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 2: constantly checking different information and seeing the source and looking

956
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 2: for the biases, right, So because that's where that's really

957
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 2: where we have to be in this moment. And I

958
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: think it's a round wellness too, because there's a lot

959
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 2: of people who are grifting around wellness, right, and there's

960
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: trying to sell some product or sell something, and we

961
00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: have to just always have critical awareness around the things

962
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,880
Speaker 2: that we're seeing. That the information we're getting on the internet,

963
00:54:46,200 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 2: information we're getting from the cable news, from the news

964
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 2: in general. Just a critical awareness around information is crucial,

965
00:54:55,560 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: and critical thinking skills are so important, and teaching people

966
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 2: how to triple check sources and get inform, you know,

967
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 2: try to get fine reputable sources, and thinking about like

968
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 2: how a study can be manipulated. Right, Just having those

969
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: that critical awareness it's just crucially important in this in

970
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,919
Speaker 2: this day and age, because I think we can spend

971
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 2: ourselves out in a psychological and emotional way when we

972
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 2: think about the people, you know, I think about those

973
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 2: folks who said that they were radicalized around January sixth,

974
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:32,080
Speaker 2: right through social media propaganda and then found themselves, you know,

975
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 2: on trial for their lives and admitting that they were

976
00:55:35,320 --> 00:55:40,359
Speaker 2: sort of propagandized and you know did and their incredible consequences,

977
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 2: and I think they were probably struggling in their lives.

978
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,759
Speaker 2: You know, when you hear about you know, young men

979
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: being radicalized into white supremacist groups, so much of that

980
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: is about a loneliness about us trying to find a

981
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: sense of community, right, and so there's always something going

982
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 2: on psychological and emotionally with people. And if we can

983
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 2: have that frame for people giving people grace, I mean,

984
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 2: I think there's you know, I think our actions must

985
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:12,080
Speaker 2: have consequences, right, So I'm not like forgiving people for

986
00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 2: terrorist activities or anything like that, but I think we

987
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:18,360
Speaker 2: can you know, I'm responsible for my actions and we

988
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 2: all are. So you know, if you do unfortunate things

989
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 2: because you've been radicalized, and then you have to sort

990
00:56:25,600 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: of deal with the consequences of that. But then for

991
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,279
Speaker 2: those people who've come out on the other side of that,

992
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:33,439
Speaker 2: I think their stories are very valuable around talking about

993
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,359
Speaker 2: how they were radicalized and maybe we're deradicalized and then

994
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 2: began to understand what pain they were in and what

995
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: they were struggling with. And everyone is struggling with something,

996
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 2: and it's like, if we can, if they can, hopefully

997
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 2: we can meet people with love and empathy in their

998
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 2: struggles to people in our lives who might be going

999
00:56:50,880 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 2: down a road, some sort of very radical road, and

1000
00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,719
Speaker 2: a lot of people are right now. If we can

1001
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:57,960
Speaker 2: hold them close, maybe we may not be able to.

1002
00:56:58,040 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 2: We may have to let them go. Certain people we

1003
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:01,719
Speaker 2: have to go up because it's not healthy for us.

1004
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: But if we can keep these people in our lives

1005
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 2: with love and empathy and maybe just love them through

1006
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: these moments, maybe they won't end up in situations that

1007
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 2: become you know, where they're going to prison for, you know,

1008
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: behavior they being engaged in.

1009
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:19,840
Speaker 1: On that point, I want to ask this question because

1010
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: every time I feel what happens with any difficult, uncomfortable

1011
00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: conversation is that, again you pointed this out earlier, it's

1012
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 1: happening in silos. So you have a group of people

1013
00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: over here talking about it, but they're talking about it

1014
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 1: with each other. Then you have a group of people

1015
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: here talking about it, talking about it with each other.

1016
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: If you could sit down not a debate, not an argument,

1017
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 1: but a genuine discussion, conversation of learning from both sides

1018
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: with someone in the world, who is that person that

1019
00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:52,400
Speaker 1: you think you'd want to sit with to have that educated, thoughtful,

1020
00:57:53,040 --> 00:57:56,919
Speaker 1: conscious conversation around the subject matters that you care about.

1021
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,680
Speaker 2: I mean, that's why we reach out to Joe Rogan

1022
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 2: because I think, you know, he he has had so

1023
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:01,360
Speaker 2: many but he's.

1024
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 1: Kind of in the middle there right, Like he's kind

1025
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: of trying to talk to me.

1026
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 3: Interesting.

1027
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 2: He's interesting because you know, some people would say he

1028
00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 2: is he represents a lot of normy sort of opinions

1029
00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 2: on things, and then like there's some things that have

1030
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 2: gotten more sort of radically conservative on his podcast. But

1031
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 2: he's someone I was interested when I was interested in

1032
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 2: going own to show. It's just like I would just

1033
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:21,960
Speaker 2: love to chat with him. I'm not trying just to

1034
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 2: be go and be a human being. I'm just going

1035
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 2: be Laverne, you know, just go and like not necessarily

1036
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,480
Speaker 2: if we want to talk about some of these issues.

1037
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm certainly not an expert in sports. That's

1038
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 2: a big issue with him trans people in sports. I'm not.

1039
00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 2: I don't play sports.

1040
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:35,640
Speaker 1: I've never you know, not athletic.

1041
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,040
Speaker 2: I know a little bit about the studies that have

1042
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 2: been done the very few studies that have been done

1043
00:58:40,560 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 2: on actual trans people in sports, but he's someone who

1044
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: comes to mind because I think it's really just about

1045
00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: how can can we be human? Can we be human together?

1046
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: And I think that's the first piece that like so

1047
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:58,480
Speaker 2: much of what has happened has been deeply dehumanizing, where

1048
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 2: they've sort of madeid trans people into an ideology. I mean,

1049
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:06,200
Speaker 2: when people sort of sort of like transgender ideology, I'm like,

1050
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 2: what exactly is that and.

1051
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 1: What are some of the concerns on the other side,

1052
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:16,680
Speaker 1: so to speak, that you empathize with or that you

1053
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: parts of the narrative where you're like, oh, I understand

1054
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 1: where that's coming from, but that isn't actually what I

1055
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: believe our thoughts are, Like what would you say, is like, oh,

1056
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: I get where that's coming from, But that's actually a

1057
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 1: misnarrative because I think what ends up happening and I'm

1058
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: looking at it from a trying to look at it

1059
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,880
Speaker 1: from an observer point of view and going, is it

1060
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:40,160
Speaker 1: that people are actually arguing two completely different things and

1061
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: we're arguing about the wrong things, Like we're not even

1062
00:59:42,280 --> 00:59:42,800
Speaker 1: talking about I.

1063
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 2: Think the part of it, I mean, I think honestly,

1064
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 2: part of the problem is that a lot of the

1065
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: ways in which for many years, since oh gosh, since

1066
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 2: the early since the early two thousands, there have been

1067
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 2: states have been attempting to do bathroom bands. I think

1068
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 2: Phoenix was one of the first cities, and we were

1069
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,480
Speaker 2: able to sort of not have that, you know, protests

1070
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 2: happened and they were not bathroom bands against trans people

1071
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 2: using the bathroom. Famously, in twenty sixteen, HB two in

1072
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:10,800
Speaker 2: North Carolina was the big bathroom bill, but there have

1073
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 2: been other states who've been trying to you know, ban

1074
01:00:13,080 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 2: access to bathrooms for trans people. So for years conservatives

1075
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 2: were working to get trans people out of bathrooms. That

1076
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 2: actually didn't really work anywhere. And so after marriage equality

1077
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 2: became the law of the land, conservative groups focused had

1078
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,520
Speaker 2: focus groups and they were like they they talked to

1079
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 2: them specifically about different trans issues, and what seemed most

1080
01:00:35,520 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 2: salient to them were trans women specifically in sports. And

1081
01:00:39,600 --> 01:00:42,400
Speaker 2: so then that became the focus and they were like, Okay,

1082
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:44,480
Speaker 2: we can take the place they need a buyant pay

1083
01:00:44,520 --> 01:00:47,200
Speaker 2: book from the seventies and focus on children, trans people

1084
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 2: in sports and children. And so then there was a

1085
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 2: proliferation of news stories on Fox News and conservative and

1086
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 2: conservative media all of the Internet. Google it. It's just

1087
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:00,720
Speaker 2: hundreds of stories on Fox News about trans people in sports,

1088
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 2: none in like, you know, more mainstream media, like we didn't.

1089
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:07,919
Speaker 2: Like if you're not watching Fox News or conservative media,

1090
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 2: you didn't really you wouldn't realize that there was an

1091
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:11,520
Speaker 2: issue with trans people in sports. But if you watch

1092
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:13,840
Speaker 2: Fox News, you would think that, like, trans people are

1093
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 2: dominating sports, like that trans women are like you know that,

1094
01:01:17,040 --> 01:01:20,040
Speaker 2: so that, I mean, this is really for most people,

1095
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: trans women in sports becomes the crazy thing that like

1096
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 2: we can't do for Joe Rogan, it's it's it's the issue,

1097
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:31,560
Speaker 2: and there's not enough real studies on actual trans women

1098
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:34,440
Speaker 2: in sports. You would need to do double blind studies

1099
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,880
Speaker 2: of trans women's performance capacity in different sports. There there's

1100
01:01:37,960 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 2: one study that was done with trans women specifically with running,

1101
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:42,920
Speaker 2: but it was a small sample size that looked at

1102
01:01:42,920 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 2: their performance pre transition in post transition. But then there

1103
01:01:46,400 --> 01:01:49,480
Speaker 2: have been any studies on like weightlifting, on swimming, on

1104
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 2: all that and their different skill sets that are required.

1105
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 2: People make assumptions because people don't think they're trans women

1106
01:01:56,880 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: are women, so there make assumptions that if you've gone

1107
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 2: through puberty that releases testosterone, that you're going to have

1108
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 2: a physical advantage. In two thousand and two, the International

1109
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,320
Speaker 2: Olympic Committee created standards for trans people to compete in

1110
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 2: two thousand and two that had to do with testosterone levels,

1111
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 2: being on hormone replacement therapy for a certain amount of time.

1112
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: And since two thousand and two, so that's been that

1113
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,800
Speaker 2: twenty one years. We've had one trans Olympian and she

1114
01:02:22,120 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 2: like she was a weightlifter a few years ago and

1115
01:02:24,480 --> 01:02:26,880
Speaker 2: she like failed to qualify, Like she made it the

1116
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 2: Olympics icition, then she was out in the first round.

1117
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 2: So in the twenty one years that trans people have

1118
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 2: been able to compete in the Olympics, for example, trans

1119
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 2: women are not dominating. There are a few trans women

1120
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: who win in competitions, and we hear all about those

1121
01:02:41,040 --> 01:02:44,480
Speaker 2: trans women, right, and like conservatives know those trans women

1122
01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,880
Speaker 2: probably better than I would know those trans women. They're

1123
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 2: like on the handful of trans women. And then you

1124
01:02:51,240 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 2: look at sports bands on trans children. I was a governor,

1125
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 2: I forget I think it was West Virginia who was

1126
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 2: on television MISSINGBC Coney rule was like, you know, are

1127
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,080
Speaker 2: there any trans girls dominating in your state that you

1128
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,040
Speaker 2: know of, and he said no, and he didn't know

1129
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 2: of any, and there weren't any. And there was one

1130
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 2: trans girl who was playing sports that we knew of

1131
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 2: in I think was Utah, and they created a sports

1132
01:03:15,560 --> 01:03:19,440
Speaker 2: band for one person, for one trans girl, and so

1133
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,360
Speaker 2: so much of this is this anxiety. But what's interesting

1134
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 2: to me is at the same time that there are

1135
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 2: these sports bands that we're going to ban trans girls

1136
01:03:28,920 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 2: from sports to keep fairness in sports, that they're also

1137
01:03:31,920 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 2: banning gender affirming care and stigmatizing and creating misinformation around

1138
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 2: puberty blockers. And the what I do know about sports

1139
01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 2: and alleged advantages that people might have or trans people

1140
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,080
Speaker 2: might have, is that that advantage happens after puberty, right

1141
01:03:49,160 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 2: that pre puberty that there's not really because this ustan

1142
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:55,320
Speaker 2: hasn't been introduced yet, that there's no advantage. And so

1143
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 2: the same people who say that they don't want trans

1144
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 2: girls competing also want to take away the ability for

1145
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 2: trans girls to be able to go through the puberty

1146
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 2: that is consistent with their identity, and that would actually

1147
01:04:09,080 --> 01:04:12,400
Speaker 2: not give them an advantage. And so many of the kids,

1148
01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 2: the trans kids, who play sports are not dominating. They

1149
01:04:15,800 --> 01:04:17,520
Speaker 2: just want to play with their friends. They just want

1150
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:20,800
Speaker 2: to have this communal experience. From what I've was from

1151
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: the trans people I talked to that there's something I

1152
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: never played sports, but allegedly apparently people who played sports,

1153
01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:30,280
Speaker 2: there's a sense of teamwork and community. And the young

1154
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 2: girl in Utah who she there was a field hockey

1155
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 2: team that she the team wasn't didn't even exist. She

1156
01:04:36,600 --> 01:04:39,080
Speaker 2: basically like rallied the girls, you know, to get the

1157
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 2: field hockey team together, and then like after she had

1158
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: done all this work to get the team, she couldn't

1159
01:04:43,800 --> 01:04:48,000
Speaker 2: play on it. And that just feels it's really discriminatory.

1160
01:04:48,040 --> 01:04:50,920
Speaker 2: And I think that, like there is I think fairness

1161
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:53,920
Speaker 2: in sports is something that we should there are standards

1162
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 2: in place for that, but I don't think it's really

1163
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:58,280
Speaker 2: about that at the end of the day. And so

1164
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 2: I think that like even having the long sort of

1165
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 2: drawn out conversation about sports, it's actually not about that.

1166
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 2: It's actually not I don't think it's about fairness in sports.

1167
01:05:07,600 --> 01:05:11,120
Speaker 2: I think it is about stigmatizing trans people. Is about

1168
01:05:11,560 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 2: people being deeply uncomfortable. That's almost always where it goes.

1169
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 2: That they're talking, it's say it's about sports, they say

1170
01:05:19,680 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 2: it's about the children, but it's really about a discomfort

1171
01:05:23,600 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 2: with trans people existing. That's at the core of it.

1172
01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 2: If we look at empirically at what they're saying, and

1173
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,760
Speaker 2: then the public policies that are put in place, so

1174
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,520
Speaker 2: people make sports an issue, they make gender firm and

1175
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:44,840
Speaker 2: care an issue for children, but it's ultimately about them

1176
01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:49,560
Speaker 2: wanting to erase trans people from public life because we

1177
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 2: make them uncomfortable for some reason. Are you feel me

1178
01:05:54,400 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 2: on that?

1179
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:55,560
Speaker 1: Do you feel me?

1180
01:05:55,720 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: Because I think we can parse out all these different

1181
01:05:58,400 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 2: issues that they say they have a problem with. But

1182
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, when we're talking about

1183
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 2: banning gender firming care for adults in Florida, effectively gender

1184
01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 2: firming care for adults is bannedwidth it. They've Medicaid is

1185
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:14,400
Speaker 2: no longer covering gender firming care in Florida for trans people,

1186
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 2: and DeSantis passed a bill that would allow only doctors,

1187
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,520
Speaker 2: not nurse practitioners, to administer gender firming care. When eighty

1188
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 2: percent of trans people in Florida get their gender firming

1189
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 2: care from nurse practitioners got it. So this is very

1190
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 2: similar to what they're doing with abortion bills, right. So

1191
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 2: that's why it gets tricky to go into having conversations

1192
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 2: about sports and like parsing out and getting distracted about

1193
01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: that that is actually having the conversation on their terms.

1194
01:06:43,040 --> 01:06:46,640
Speaker 2: Having the debate around trans children and gender firming care

1195
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 2: is having the debate on their terms. It is actually

1196
01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 2: not your business when it comes in fairness in sports.

1197
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:59,480
Speaker 2: And I think too, because we see a coalition now

1198
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 2: of a women who call themselves feminists who care about

1199
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:07,240
Speaker 2: women's rights, a coalition between them and right wing conservatives

1200
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 2: who want to take away the abortion rights of women

1201
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:11,280
Speaker 2: and people who can get pregnant.

1202
01:07:11,400 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 3: So they have like.

1203
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 2: Coalesced and are like, you know, in common cause around

1204
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 2: getting trans people out of women's spaces and protecting women's

1205
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,160
Speaker 2: spaces and protecting women's sports. And so this is just

1206
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 2: about transphobia. It's about transphobia, and so why is it?

1207
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 2: And I think there's a larger conversation around gender roles,

1208
01:07:31,040 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 2: what you know, that whole sort of Matt Walsh's question

1209
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:34,280
Speaker 2: what is a woman?

1210
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:34,680
Speaker 1: You know?

1211
01:07:35,200 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 2: And I think ultimately what is a man in this moment?

1212
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 2: In this historical moment right now? Women are so beautifully independent,

1213
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:49,120
Speaker 2: We make our own money. We in so many ways

1214
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 2: we don't need men, and we a lot of women

1215
01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,200
Speaker 2: have evolved, and a lot of men have evolved, but

1216
01:07:57,240 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 2: a lot of men haven't. And the structure a patriarchy

1217
01:08:01,160 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 2: has not evolved, and their backlash against like women having

1218
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 2: autonomy at these roles being challenged. Trans people are a

1219
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 2: part of that, the existence of trans people, and like

1220
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 2: defining gender on your own terms and defining what it

1221
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 2: means to be a woman on your own terms. Being

1222
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 2: a woman used to be in ante bellum United States

1223
01:08:24,439 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 2: of America, black women weren't women. Black women weren't even

1224
01:08:28,040 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 2: human right, womanhood in the United States is a colonial,

1225
01:08:34,280 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 2: white supremacist construct. It is a patriarchal construct, and that

1226
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:44,080
Speaker 2: is being dismantled as women are taking control of our

1227
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:47,599
Speaker 2: lives and our abilities.

1228
01:08:47,040 --> 01:08:48,240
Speaker 3: To have children or not.

1229
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,760
Speaker 2: And just a lot of that patriarchy is just being

1230
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 2: dismantled by the lived experiences of women. And so many

1231
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 2: men don't know how they fit into that because they

1232
01:09:00,200 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 2: haven't done the work of interrogating patriarchy and interrogating that model.

1233
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: And you've talked so beautifully on your podcast about being

1234
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,000
Speaker 2: vulnerable as a man and what that looks like, and

1235
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:16,640
Speaker 2: vulnerability is a piece of it. And that is my

1236
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 2: own for men dealing with the ways in which they've

1237
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 2: internalized patriarchy and these systems that are not serving them.

1238
01:09:23,960 --> 01:09:27,240
Speaker 2: Patriarchy isn't serving most men, especially if you're a man

1239
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 2: of color, especially if you're a working classman, right, Patriarchy

1240
01:09:31,360 --> 01:09:33,680
Speaker 2: is not actually really serving you. And I think the

1241
01:09:33,760 --> 01:09:37,040
Speaker 2: frustration of a lot of working classmen of all races

1242
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,800
Speaker 2: is that patriarchy isn't serving them, and it's supposed to

1243
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 2: be and it's confusing, right, And then women are so

1244
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 2: empowered now and don't necessarily need man, but I still

1245
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 2: want a man. And then trans people are in the

1246
01:09:50,600 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 2: middle of all this, right, And so then it's like

1247
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:56,680
Speaker 2: we become a scapegoat. We can become a scapegoat for

1248
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,200
Speaker 2: like all of the anxieties that people have that some

1249
01:10:00,400 --> 01:10:02,920
Speaker 2: women have who are not transgender, for that some men have.

1250
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:07,240
Speaker 2: We become a scapegoat for all of this anxiety about

1251
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 2: gender roles changing, and these trans people aren't helping. And

1252
01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:14,600
Speaker 2: then like there we're usurping women all these narratives that

1253
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,640
Speaker 2: actually have nothing to do with trans people. It has

1254
01:10:17,920 --> 01:10:21,000
Speaker 2: to do with a certain level of progress, a certain

1255
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 2: level of like these systems not working for people anymore,

1256
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:28,760
Speaker 2: and the uncertainty and the uncomfortability of all of that.

1257
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:32,240
Speaker 2: So much of this is about being able to sit

1258
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:35,960
Speaker 2: with discomfort and uncertainty and not being able to make

1259
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:41,680
Speaker 2: any sense of it. And what makes sense to so

1260
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 2: many people is when someone is having a baby, is

1261
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 2: it a boy or a girl? If I don't eat,

1262
01:10:48,439 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 2: if I can't even hold on to it's a boy

1263
01:10:52,120 --> 01:10:54,360
Speaker 2: or a girl, and that biner. If I can't hold

1264
01:10:54,439 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 2: onto that, what can I hold on to? And so

1265
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 2: people desperately need to hold onto some sense certainty, and

1266
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 2: trans people and our existence does not allow that, And

1267
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:07,880
Speaker 2: there is a cognitive dissonance and there is an anger

1268
01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,200
Speaker 2: because there's nothing. There's so little that we can hold

1269
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:13,280
Speaker 2: onto that that we can be certain about in these times.

1270
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:16,680
Speaker 2: Cannot hold on to something. And trans the existence of

1271
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 2: trans people is another thing that we can't hold onto.

1272
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,320
Speaker 2: But we trans people have always existed. It's just it's

1273
01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,040
Speaker 2: a lie. Intersex people exist biologically. All these people who

1274
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 2: want to talk about biology biological sex, and that term

1275
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 2: is a very tricky term, but well let's use it

1276
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 2: for now. For expedients is not binary. Intersect people exist,

1277
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,479
Speaker 2: like there's there are more intersex people than redheads, right,

1278
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:47,719
Speaker 2: so that like even biologically gender doesn't exist on a binary,

1279
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,800
Speaker 2: it's exists on a spectrum. So it's so then it's

1280
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 2: like why do we sit with discomfort and uncertainty? And

1281
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:59,840
Speaker 2: like sit in that and let go again, going back

1282
01:11:59,840 --> 01:12:02,519
Speaker 2: to letting go of the story, Like the stories that

1283
01:12:02,680 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 2: I can tell myself about not being enough, those stories

1284
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 2: are so often tied to I'm a woman, I'm supposed

1285
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 2: to be this way from people who identifi as me,

1286
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,679
Speaker 2: they're a man, and I'm you're supposed to be this way.

1287
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,280
Speaker 2: I'm white and it's supposed to be this way. I'm

1288
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:22,000
Speaker 2: from this place, letting go those stories, and it's sometimes

1289
01:12:22,880 --> 01:12:25,880
Speaker 2: deeply uncomfortable to let go of the story that like

1290
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,480
Speaker 2: I've always been attached to, deeply attached to. It's painful,

1291
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 2: it's painful. And then and so what conservatives who don't

1292
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,200
Speaker 2: want trans people to exist have done successfully is play

1293
01:12:38,240 --> 01:12:41,960
Speaker 2: it on the fears of people not being able to

1294
01:12:42,040 --> 01:12:47,360
Speaker 2: sit with discomfort and uncertainty and have used that to

1295
01:12:47,439 --> 01:12:51,680
Speaker 2: attempt to legislate and adjudicate trans people out of existence.

1296
01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 2: That is what's going on. So even having the narrative

1297
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 2: of the talking to people from the other side is

1298
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:01,080
Speaker 2: a false dichotomy because we're all in the same But.

1299
01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 4: Of course, yeah know I was doing it as a

1300
01:13:04,439 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 4: fail you and I and I went there a little

1301
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,720
Speaker 4: bit with you, but it's like, no, I think it's

1302
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,280
Speaker 4: I think we're all in the same boat around its uncertainty,

1303
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:15,600
Speaker 4: around all these questions, and if we can sit with

1304
01:13:15,720 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 4: that and hopefully sit across from someone like we're doing

1305
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:20,960
Speaker 4: now and see their humanity.

1306
01:13:20,720 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: Now that's I mean sitting and listening to you and

1307
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: anyone else that I mean, I'm only seeing humanity. And

1308
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,320
Speaker 1: that's how at least I was trained in my tradition

1309
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:32,600
Speaker 1: was to only look at someone for their humanity and

1310
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,880
Speaker 1: the essence that exists within. And my intention leven honestly

1311
01:13:36,960 --> 01:13:39,759
Speaker 1: with this is that I feel so educated in enlighting

1312
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:43,639
Speaker 1: today and I've learned so much from you, and I genuinely,

1313
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,040
Speaker 1: genuinely do hope even though I was doing it as

1314
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:49,840
Speaker 1: a thought exercise, I do hope that And it may

1315
01:13:49,920 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 1: be one of these, you know, idealistic viewpoints, but I

1316
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: think it's needed, Like I wish we could sit down

1317
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,080
Speaker 1: with people that we think we have opposing views.

1318
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:01,960
Speaker 2: There's been so many moments throughout my life where I,

1319
01:14:02,040 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 2: you know, waited at tables, worked in restaurants for nineteen

1320
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:08,000
Speaker 2: years in New York, and encountered so many people from

1321
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:11,600
Speaker 2: different backgrounds. I did not talk about being trans or

1322
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,760
Speaker 2: trans politics. I was just myself. Yeah, of course, I

1323
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 2: was just myself for these people. And it's just been

1324
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:21,560
Speaker 2: so beautiful that the empirical evidence of my life that

1325
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 2: I just get to be myself and people are like, oh, yeah,

1326
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: she happens to be trans, but she's she's cool, she's awesome,

1327
01:14:28,600 --> 01:14:31,120
Speaker 2: and it's not I'm not the only one who's cool

1328
01:14:31,120 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: and awesome.

1329
01:14:32,600 --> 01:14:34,599
Speaker 3: Like a lot of trans people are cool and awesome.

1330
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 2: There's some crazy people aren't cool and awesome. There are

1331
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:39,720
Speaker 2: people across every democratic who aren't cool and awesome, but

1332
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,439
Speaker 2: a lot of us are. And even if we weren't

1333
01:14:42,439 --> 01:14:45,880
Speaker 2: cool and awesome, we're still human, you know, And sitting

1334
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 2: across some people and just chilling, you know, is like,

1335
01:14:49,640 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 2: it's it's beautiful. I think about all of the sort

1336
01:14:52,439 --> 01:14:55,599
Speaker 2: of parents of different men I've dated over the years.

1337
01:14:55,800 --> 01:14:58,559
Speaker 2: I'm fifty one, and so I've met some parents though

1338
01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:01,360
Speaker 2: my day. And I just remember, like twenty years ago,

1339
01:15:01,400 --> 01:15:02,920
Speaker 2: I was dating this guy and then we met. I

1340
01:15:03,000 --> 01:15:05,920
Speaker 2: met his parents and they knew I was trans, going

1341
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 2: in like, oh, she's so lovely. And then I was

1342
01:15:07,760 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 2: another guy's mom who I met. This is early two thousands,

1343
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:12,479
Speaker 2: and I met her.

1344
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:14,479
Speaker 3: She loved me, she thought I was great for her son.

1345
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 2: Like three years into relationship, he was in the phone

1346
01:15:19,360 --> 01:15:20,960
Speaker 2: with this mom and was like, oh, Laverne is giving

1347
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 2: herself an estrogen shot and.

1348
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:23,920
Speaker 3: She's like, oh my god, what is she pregnant? What's

1349
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 3: going on?

1350
01:15:24,920 --> 01:15:27,719
Speaker 2: And she's freaking out like he used to starts laughing.

1351
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 2: She's like, she's trans, and we thought she knew, but

1352
01:15:31,200 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 2: she didn't know. She had met me and loved me,

1353
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:36,240
Speaker 2: and then she freaked out. And then she comes to visit.

1354
01:15:36,320 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 2: She's from Minneapolis. She comes and visits, and then we

1355
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:42,160
Speaker 2: have dinner together and she's like, Laverne is lovely, she's great.

1356
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,880
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that she's in your life, you know.

1357
01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:49,000
Speaker 2: And she had whatever story she had around me being trans.

1358
01:15:49,040 --> 01:15:50,680
Speaker 2: And then we had dinner together.

1359
01:15:50,439 --> 01:15:52,320
Speaker 3: And hung out and was like she's great.

1360
01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:52,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1361
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 2: And I've just have so many of those experiences in

1362
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:57,640
Speaker 2: my life and so I part of me is just like,

1363
01:15:57,840 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: let's just sit down and have dinner.

1364
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:01,800
Speaker 3: Girl, let's just chill. It's all good.

1365
01:16:02,640 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 4: I love it.

1366
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,880
Speaker 1: Levine Cocks. You have been a joy to be around today, honestly,

1367
01:16:07,400 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: and I love how smart, intelligent, intellectual, thoughtful you are

1368
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 1: about the words that you share, the way you present them,

1369
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:18,880
Speaker 1: and you're you're a change maker. And I'm really on

1370
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 1: it to have sat down with you for this time,

1371
01:16:20,560 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 1: to learn from you, to grow with you, and I

1372
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: really hope that we'll continue to have this conversation offline too.

1373
01:16:26,200 --> 01:16:26,479
Speaker 1: Me too.

1374
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 4: I really look forward to be poland definitely definitely that

1375
01:16:31,479 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 4: wash that you you are very on perpoct I try.

1376
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,680
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Thank you honestly. If you love

1377
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:43,160
Speaker 1: this episode, you will enjoy my conversation with Megan Trainer

1378
01:16:43,479 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: on breaking generational trauma and how to be confident from

1379
01:16:47,520 --> 01:16:48,439
Speaker 1: the inside out.

1380
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 2: My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for

1381
01:16:51,439 --> 01:16:52,000
Speaker 2: five minutes.

1382
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:53,719
Speaker 3: It was already tough for me to love my body.

1383
01:16:53,800 --> 01:16:56,920
Speaker 2: But after the C section scarf with all the stretch marks,

1384
01:16:57,000 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 2: now I'm looking at myself like I've been hacked. But

1385
01:16:59,479 --> 01:17:01,400
Speaker 2: day three, when I did it, I was like, you

1386
01:17:01,479 --> 01:17:02,679
Speaker 2: know what her dis are Cute,