1
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you from House Top

2
00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:14,720
Speaker 1: Works Nott. Come hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen.

3
00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 1: Then I'm Caroline. And today's episode on Hollywood Makeup Artist

4
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,960
Speaker 1: Caroline took me back to my childhood ballet days. Yes,

5
00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,440
Speaker 1: because I mean, obviously, I was like ten, eleven, twelve

6
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,440
Speaker 1: years old and I did not wear full makeup or

7
00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:38,800
Speaker 1: any makeup for that matter, except for ballet performances. I

8
00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:44,080
Speaker 1: was ballerina, and I distinctly remember my mom taking me

9
00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,760
Speaker 1: to the drug store to go by Max Factor pancake

10
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:51,920
Speaker 1: because I was on the stage. You know, stage makeup

11
00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,440
Speaker 1: obviously is well not always obviously, is a bit more

12
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,320
Speaker 1: dramatic than everyday makeup. And I can still remember the

13
00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:08,000
Speaker 1: smell of that thick, pale pancake being applied to my

14
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,600
Speaker 1: face and I felt like a star. I'll admit it.

15
00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,160
Speaker 1: I was writing for my clothes up, well, not too

16
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 1: close up. If you were wearing like super thick pancake makeup,

17
00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:24,400
Speaker 1: Oh no, clothes with it better, I don't mind. Um. So,

18
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:28,040
Speaker 1: this this episode was was really fun to learn about

19
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,840
Speaker 1: the roots of my my childhood stage makeup. Yeah, I

20
00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 1: am When I was in elementary school. Every year each

21
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,560
Speaker 1: grade would put on It was called the spring play,

22
00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:43,280
Speaker 1: and each grade participated first through fifth and each class

23
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,440
Speaker 1: would put on a different like two song routine, um

24
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,240
Speaker 1: singing and dancing and costumes in the whole nine yards.

25
00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,400
Speaker 1: It was traumatic. But one thing I remember so clearly

26
00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 1: was that every year when this happened, my mother would

27
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,280
Speaker 1: put my hair and hot rollers, plastic hot rollers that

28
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:08,080
Speaker 1: had been around since approximately Uh sorry, mom. And what

29
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 1: went along with that was, of course putting on lots

30
00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:14,160
Speaker 1: of makeup so that you could definitely see my star feature.

31
00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:16,919
Speaker 1: You gotta make those cheeks pop, that's right, and also

32
00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,320
Speaker 1: lips and eyes. I can't tell you like how freakish

33
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,520
Speaker 1: I looked when you see pictures of me, like off

34
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,399
Speaker 1: the stage before or after the performance. I looked terrifying

35
00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,120
Speaker 1: because I've got this my hair is just naturally straight

36
00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:34,320
Speaker 1: and fine, and I've got this like big curly, frizzy

37
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: hair all over the place, and these bright red lips

38
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:46,120
Speaker 1: and this pale, ghostly white skin. I look like the

39
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 1: ghost of stage performers past, but like the chubby ten

40
00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:53,679
Speaker 1: year old version. Yeah, I mean, if it makes you

41
00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:56,679
Speaker 1: feel any better, I think I was ten when the

42
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,280
Speaker 1: photo was taken for I'm sure it was our spring

43
00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,520
Speaker 1: recital as well. Because I was a silver bell and

44
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: was almost busting out of my leotard. My mom had

45
00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,160
Speaker 1: to alter it bigger for me. I was, in my

46
00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:15,120
Speaker 1: grandfather's words, a husky child. And there's this photo of

47
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 1: me in all of my to do and adult makeup

48
00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:25,240
Speaker 1: regalia in my family's backyard, and I I looked, I

49
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,960
Speaker 1: just look bizarre. It's not it looks very unnatural. Yeah,

50
00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,640
Speaker 1: like I imagine, I know for sure mine and I

51
00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 1: imagine yours. Like these are the reasons that people write

52
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 1: horror movies around children and children and makeup and stage

53
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 1: children because it's horrifying. Come all these children dressed as

54
00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:50,200
Speaker 1: lions and other jungle creatures. Fun. Well, unfortunately we have

55
00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:54,440
Speaker 1: to reel this conversation into Hollywood. Although really, can we

56
00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:59,560
Speaker 1: just talk about child stage performances for the rest of

57
00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: the parts so traumatic? But today, uh we we will

58
00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,040
Speaker 1: not listeners just be talking about um times when Caroline

59
00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,000
Speaker 1: and I were in the spotlight literally um. But we're

60
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:18,720
Speaker 1: gonna focus on production makeup artists, not so much celebrity

61
00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: or fashion makeup artists, not having like the Bobby Brown

62
00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,719
Speaker 1: kind of conversation, but really looking at the development of

63
00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:31,200
Speaker 1: makeup artistry in Hollywood because a makeup stuff I've never

64
00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,840
Speaker 1: told you. We talked about makeup related things all the time,

65
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,400
Speaker 1: and of course Hollywood makeup widely influenced and continues to

66
00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:45,400
Speaker 1: influence beauty trends and women's body image offscreen. But this

67
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:51,800
Speaker 1: also when we look specifically at early Hollywood, is a

68
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 1: rare stuff I'm never told you history. That is an

69
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:01,240
Speaker 1: emphasis on his tree and no her story. Does that

70
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:05,400
Speaker 1: make any sense whatsoever? Yeah, the ladies are missing ladies,

71
00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,760
Speaker 1: and it's not that like people just left them out

72
00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,159
Speaker 1: of the history, although it's entirely possible that they have

73
00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: been left at that women makeup artists have been left

74
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: out of the narrative. That would not shock me in

75
00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,200
Speaker 1: the least. But when you go back and look at

76
00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,520
Speaker 1: the timeline of the development of first stage and then

77
00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:27,960
Speaker 1: on screen makeup, it's all guys. It's all guys, and

78
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 1: and it makes sense the more you read about it

79
00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: and and consider what they were having to do, it

80
00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:36,800
Speaker 1: does make sense that it was guys. Because a professionalization

81
00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,840
Speaker 1: and especially professionalization happening in the early twentieth century, which

82
00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 1: was almost exclusively a male pursuit, and also how there

83
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:50,480
Speaker 1: were very technical aspects of it. So a little bit

84
00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,520
Speaker 1: of background to kick things off. So Hollywood actors first

85
00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,400
Speaker 1: began wearing makeup, not so much to look fabulous on screen,

86
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,680
Speaker 1: but rather to not look horrifying on the screen. Yeah,

87
00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,799
Speaker 1: to not look like Kristen and me when we were children.

88
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,280
Speaker 1: That's why they were makeup. And this, by the way,

89
00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,479
Speaker 1: is coming from a fantastic profile on Max Factor in

90
00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,720
Speaker 1: Cabinet Magazine. The link will be over in the podcast

91
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,359
Speaker 1: link on stuff I've Never told you dot com and

92
00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,119
Speaker 1: I highly recommend you read it. Yeah, but Max Factor

93
00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,320
Speaker 1: the human being, not just Kristen's pancake makeup that she

94
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,200
Speaker 1: wore a ballet. Yeah, he was a real Max. I'm

95
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,800
Speaker 1: a real man, And I do remember thinking as a kid,

96
00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: who was this Max guy. I just never thought it

97
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,719
Speaker 1: was a person, Max Factor. It just sounds like Mabel

98
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,280
Speaker 1: n It was Mabel Mabel. Maybe he's born with it,

99
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,080
Speaker 1: maybe he's Max Factor. Well, so if we're talking about

100
00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:47,599
Speaker 1: why people look ghoulish, I don't want to leave you

101
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,039
Speaker 1: hanging with that information. Get back to the ghouls. The

102
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:56,120
Speaker 1: ghouls and the technology, so both both orthochromatic and pen

103
00:06:56,200 --> 00:07:01,039
Speaker 1: chromatic film made dark colors darker and light colors lighter,

104
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,120
Speaker 1: which totally made you look like a freak. And this, this,

105
00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,680
Speaker 1: by the way, is the earliest film being used. Um.

106
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 1: It really gave people this almost ghost to the appearance.

107
00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 1: So like anytime you had a slight blemish or a

108
00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,240
Speaker 1: wrinkle or anything, it would just be totally blown up

109
00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,400
Speaker 1: and blown out into something scary looking on on on camera.

110
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,880
Speaker 1: But back then there was no Max Factor pancake, there

111
00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 1: was no under eye concealer God. And then the makeup

112
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 1: options and you know, the nineteen tens were very limited

113
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,280
Speaker 1: to things like commercial grease paint or if you want

114
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,200
Speaker 1: to get d I y about it, mixtures of lard

115
00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,640
Speaker 1: talk and pigment that actors would apply before coming on set.

116
00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:52,239
Speaker 1: So Hollywood's first stars would happen to do their own

117
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,200
Speaker 1: hair and makeup a lot of times. Yeah, make yourself

118
00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,600
Speaker 1: look beautiful or in it just not horrifying. Um. And

119
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,200
Speaker 1: this is where I get super squipt out because I

120
00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:06,240
Speaker 1: have skin that breaks out super easily, Like I'm gonna

121
00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,200
Speaker 1: try a new moisturizer, acne, I'm gonna try a new

122
00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:17,040
Speaker 1: concealer more acne um, but so in lieu of makeup primer,

123
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 1: these actors and actresses would use things like petroleum, jelly,

124
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,240
Speaker 1: vegetable shortening, or cold cream to help their makeup set.

125
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,239
Speaker 1: And I'm just like shuddering. That just sounds so awful

126
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,240
Speaker 1: and like I would never be able to get it off.

127
00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:36,480
Speaker 1: And that's underneath a thick grease paint, an inflexible thick

128
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,280
Speaker 1: grease paint. Now, in order to achieve a little bit

129
00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,359
Speaker 1: of skin tone, they might add some brick dust or paprika.

130
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,680
Speaker 1: I mean the living is like makeup back then was

131
00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:53,040
Speaker 1: real scrappy. It was food, go to dinner and get

132
00:08:53,040 --> 00:08:56,360
Speaker 1: a makeover all in one Um. They would also I

133
00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,520
Speaker 1: love this. They might dust flour on their faces to

134
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:03,600
Speaker 1: demand a shine. And you want some dimple scales, just

135
00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: use your lipstick. But the thing was like this stuff

136
00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:12,280
Speaker 1: was so thick and uh, the film could potentially make

137
00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,800
Speaker 1: you look so creepy, uh that if you made a

138
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,240
Speaker 1: certain facial expression, it might crack. But the cracks would

139
00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,679
Speaker 1: show up on film like you were you were literally

140
00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 1: breaking apart and melting, like every movie was a monster movie.

141
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 1: But that also explains why people in say like Silent

142
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,680
Speaker 1: Era and the early talkies films look so different than

143
00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,040
Speaker 1: people on film today. It wasn't because you know, eighty

144
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:43,240
Speaker 1: eighty years ago, hi, it's two thousand, humans had vastly

145
00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,800
Speaker 1: different faces, but because the makeup was literally being just

146
00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,560
Speaker 1: like slathered on. And by makeup, I mean makeup in quotes,

147
00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 1: because Caroline Max Factor hadn't even invented the term makeup yet.

148
00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,560
Speaker 1: I know, I love this all of this background information.

149
00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 1: Max Factor himself was a fascinating guy with sort of

150
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 1: a crazy story. He was hired as a personal cosmetician

151
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 1: two members of Czar Nicholas the Second Court. But he

152
00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 1: must have been like some crazy great cosmetics guy, and

153
00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 1: or know Nicholas was like nutty because Max Factor's activity,

154
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,240
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep calling him Max Factor, not Max. Yeah,

155
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,680
Speaker 1: I mean Max just seems too casual. I know. It

156
00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,000
Speaker 1: was closely monitored and restricted, which made it super tough

157
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,760
Speaker 1: for him because dude, he had a secret family. Yeah,

158
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,120
Speaker 1: he was able to start his secret family while he

159
00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 1: was still, you know, being monitored by Czar Nicholas. I mean,

160
00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:48,960
Speaker 1: he couldn't leave court without a chaperone. I'm just gonna

161
00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,079
Speaker 1: pop into this bookstore slash make babies yeah, he had

162
00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:57,360
Speaker 1: three kids secretly Max Factor how quickies. But then this

163
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,400
Speaker 1: was I love this part of his bio. So in

164
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,240
Speaker 1: n He's like, Okay, this is ridiculous. I have a

165
00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 1: secret family that I really would like to live with,

166
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,240
Speaker 1: but I'm in the court of the czar who just

167
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: doesn't want to let me leave. What am I going

168
00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,160
Speaker 1: to do? What am I really good at? Oh? Yeah, makeup.

169
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:21,520
Speaker 1: Makeup is a tool of deception, as every man knows,

170
00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:26,400
Speaker 1: so he uses his makeup skills. He does his face

171
00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,480
Speaker 1: with flour and paprika. No, I'm sure he did something

172
00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:35,560
Speaker 1: far and then he made cookies. And then he used

173
00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:38,199
Speaker 1: his makeup skills to fake an illness. So he made

174
00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 1: himself up to look super sick, sick enough to get

175
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:46,800
Speaker 1: sent to a sanitarium. But he actually did not go

176
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,320
Speaker 1: to a sanitarium. Listeners. He scooped up his wife and

177
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,160
Speaker 1: three kids and set sail for America, where everything was

178
00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,240
Speaker 1: instantly great, right, and where he established beauty standards the end,

179
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,640
Speaker 1: the end. No, he had a tough go of it

180
00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,400
Speaker 1: when he first got to the US because he was

181
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:07,240
Speaker 1: obviously very successful, knew what he was gonna do, get

182
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 1: into cosmetics. But when he uh started setting things up

183
00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 1: with a business partner. The business partner souls money. Then

184
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:21,480
Speaker 1: his secret wife, who was no longer secret, unexpectedly died,

185
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,840
Speaker 1: and then he got a new wife, and then she

186
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,880
Speaker 1: had a mental breakdown and started beating him in public

187
00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,600
Speaker 1: Melissa after their baby was born, so like he had

188
00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,080
Speaker 1: a baby with the new wife, she probably was suffering

189
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,520
Speaker 1: from some postpartum She ends up abusing him. He divorces her,

190
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:41,320
Speaker 1: and then he's like, Okay, my brother and I will

191
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,600
Speaker 1: go into business. That'll be fine. His brother had come

192
00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,800
Speaker 1: over well. The brother then opens up a cosmetic shop

193
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,200
Speaker 1: like two doors down, becomes a competitor, and then becomes

194
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,480
Speaker 1: a gangster literally, so I know, I kind of want

195
00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,880
Speaker 1: to know about that and missed a factor. Um. But

196
00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:04,199
Speaker 1: then finally he's on his fourth wife, he's got five kids,

197
00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,960
Speaker 1: and he's like, let's go to Holly Weird. So in

198
00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:10,800
Speaker 1: nineteen o nine he opens up his cosmetics store, which

199
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,440
Speaker 1: is also essentially a cosmetics lab. At the time, he

200
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:18,320
Speaker 1: wasn't like opening up a Sephora or something, because stuff

201
00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,679
Speaker 1: didn't exist, and he was very much a scientist about it.

202
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:26,000
Speaker 1: And with that he began, unwittingly the process of changing

203
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:30,160
Speaker 1: an entire industry because in nineteen fourteen he started carrying

204
00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:35,040
Speaker 1: a flexible grease paint that he developed that wouldn't crack

205
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 1: when those actors made their overly dramatic expressions on screen. Yeah,

206
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,679
Speaker 1: so here's a guy who is not only like he's

207
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,840
Speaker 1: had a cookie life so far already, and he's an

208
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:51,960
Speaker 1: incredible technological innovator. He's creating things. Then he's becoming the

209
00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 1: artist and applying those things to the actors themselves, because

210
00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,120
Speaker 1: they were like, finally I don't have to do it.

211
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:00,560
Speaker 1: But also everybody was so excited, like, oh, you mean

212
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,400
Speaker 1: I can have a slight facial expression and not have

213
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 1: my pancake flower paprika combination crack and fall off. But

214
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,960
Speaker 1: remember we haven't gone a pancake yet. God, I know,

215
00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,600
Speaker 1: I'm just so excited. Well, also, all of this stuff

216
00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,240
Speaker 1: is just food based, true, because they're just slapping actual

217
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:22,240
Speaker 1: pancakes on their face, so delicious, poking out little nose holes. Um.

218
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 1: But Factor was a legit innovator. He made, for instance,

219
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:32,440
Speaker 1: the first made for film Sweat Tears and Blood Delish.

220
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,240
Speaker 1: He even invented a pie topping that, as opposed to

221
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,640
Speaker 1: dairy cream, didn't get sour and curdled after a while,

222
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,320
Speaker 1: but also stuck to the face longer. So thanking Max

223
00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,800
Speaker 1: Factor for like all of the three Stages movies. But

224
00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:52,080
Speaker 1: wait a second, so still though we're still using, we're

225
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 1: still in food, We're still in food. I like that

226
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 1: He's like, I'll create something different that's not food, but

227
00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 1: first dessert. I like to imagine I don't know if

228
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 1: you watched House, but like in every episode of House,

229
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:07,720
Speaker 1: there was always a moment where like a colleague was

230
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 1: talking and House would get this look on his face

231
00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:12,640
Speaker 1: like I figured it out, and he'd run away to

232
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,240
Speaker 1: go solve the case. And I imagine that the same

233
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: thing happened with Max Factor. Like he was eating a

234
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 1: pie one night and he's like, I know what to do.

235
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,440
Speaker 1: Some whipped cream stuck on his nose and he was like,

236
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:29,600
Speaker 1: wait a moment. But he also invented lip glass, waterproof mascara,

237
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 1: and under eye concealer. Can can we insert like a

238
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,800
Speaker 1: sound clip of just like wild applause after under eye Concealer?

239
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 1: I know. And in addition to this, he sold eyeshadow

240
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,880
Speaker 1: and eyebrow pencils to non actors for the first time

241
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:51,480
Speaker 1: because remember that as max factor was getting started. Makeup

242
00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 1: was still okay for the stage, but it was largely

243
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:57,680
Speaker 1: like if you weren't a woman on the stage and

244
00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 1: you were wearing makeup, then you were probably a prostitute.

245
00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,640
Speaker 1: And like literally this is we're not like making an

246
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,200
Speaker 1: old ye, old timey judgment. That was like what people thought.

247
00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,680
Speaker 1: But it's it's not to say though that Edwardian era

248
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 1: women were not completely obsessed with cosmetics, but it was

249
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,600
Speaker 1: more about having a clean look and trying to get

250
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,920
Speaker 1: away with um, you know, kind of like the natural

251
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:24,960
Speaker 1: look today. Obviously they wouldn't be wearing, you know, the

252
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,880
Speaker 1: same kinds of layers of foundation and doing contouring and

253
00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,479
Speaker 1: all of that stuff that we would be doing today,

254
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,920
Speaker 1: but they were still applying lots of things to their

255
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,320
Speaker 1: facial skin and still trying to achieve beauty. But obvious

256
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,240
Speaker 1: makeup in the sense of wearing eyeshadow and lipstick and

257
00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 1: blush would have been associated with ladies of the evening.

258
00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 1: And I don't know if it's at this point, like

259
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,920
Speaker 1: at the very dawn of civilians using his makeup, or

260
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,760
Speaker 1: if it's a little bit later in the process, but

261
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 1: there were even in some of the sources we read.

262
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,920
Speaker 1: There were even some complaints that we still here today

263
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,080
Speaker 1: from men who were like, I hate to kiss lips

264
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: with lipstick on them. I want the clean, pure kiss. Well, buddy,

265
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: stopped judging and maybe you'll get one m And I

266
00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,359
Speaker 1: bet you fella back then you would smoke on us

267
00:17:12,400 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 1: a garrello with a pencil thin mustache. Yes, basically every

268
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:21,199
Speaker 1: man in the Edwardian Arrow was a villain in like

269
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: a train heist movie. Yes, yes, um. But one thing

270
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,600
Speaker 1: too to keep in mind for a little later in

271
00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:33,440
Speaker 1: our conversation is how Factor invented air brushing makeup, which

272
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,080
Speaker 1: was often originally used for white actors playing non white characters,

273
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,880
Speaker 1: but it also came in handy during World War Two

274
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,240
Speaker 1: when women had to give up their nylongs their stockings

275
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: and they would use the same makeup to make it

276
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 1: appear that they were wearing stockings. So a non racist use, yeah,

277
00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,680
Speaker 1: take one, take with one hand, or give the Lord,

278
00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:01,639
Speaker 1: giveth and take it away and um so yeah, so

279
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:06,080
Speaker 1: evening out there. But some of the iconic faces that

280
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:12,760
Speaker 1: Max Factor kind of literally created were Joan Crawford's, Judy

281
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 1: Garland's teen Harlow's and Betty Davis so I mean, these

282
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 1: were these were looks that so many women at the

283
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:23,840
Speaker 1: time and and even still today because yeah, Jim Crawford

284
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 1: is a babe, are still mimicking. But what's interesting is

285
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,600
Speaker 1: that so many of his makeup innovations came out of necessity.

286
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:38,040
Speaker 1: For instance, the rosebud and Cupid's bow lipstick designs or

287
00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 1: styles which were popularized by Clara bou They were all

288
00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,800
Speaker 1: strategies to prevent the lipstick from running, because we didn't

289
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,640
Speaker 1: have that like stay put for seventeen hours, even through

290
00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 1: your sad salad kind of of lipstick. It was all.

291
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,480
Speaker 1: It all started to run at one point or another,

292
00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,920
Speaker 1: so he would paint it in a very specific way

293
00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,200
Speaker 1: so that it wouldn't get all over your face. And

294
00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:02,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't just makeup either. He was also into hair

295
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 1: dye innovation and really helped make blondes all of the rage.

296
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,520
Speaker 1: And this had to do with a shift in film

297
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 1: technology as well, because you have a movement toward a

298
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,840
Speaker 1: less harsh incandescent lighting on set, and then in the

299
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:22,359
Speaker 1: late twenties the adoption of panchromatic film, and so because

300
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 1: it would play so well off of those elements, factor

301
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,320
Speaker 1: made a new Platinum Blonde Die for Gene Harlow. That

302
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,680
Speaker 1: was such a sensation that her comedy title was changed

303
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: from the original Gallagher all the watermelon smashing to just

304
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,920
Speaker 1: platinum Blonde, Like just make it all about the hair.

305
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 1: Fewer watermelons. Yeah, and um. As this Cabinet magazine profile

306
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:51,080
Speaker 1: pointed out, in the process of creating Greta Garbo's signature look,

307
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 1: women around the US just copied it. I mean, Max

308
00:19:55,920 --> 00:20:01,040
Speaker 1: Factor essentially set the standard for what women in the

309
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: late or even mid twenties and thirties we're trying to

310
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: look like, which is fascinating, fascinating. He's such a genius. Well,

311
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:11,240
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe if you hate makeup, you hate

312
00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,520
Speaker 1: Max Factor. I don't know, but I think he's such

313
00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:18,399
Speaker 1: a genius with the keeping up his innovations with the

314
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: technology of the day of of So I don't want

315
00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: to say effortlessly, because I'm sure you put a ton

316
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 1: of effort into it, but it's just so seamlessly following

317
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,880
Speaker 1: the technological innovations with his products, and in the process

318
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 1: he ended up setting beauty standards for women in the

319
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 1: United States. I have a feeling that when he was

320
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,560
Speaker 1: like under a lock and key in Czar Nicholas's court.

321
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,200
Speaker 1: You had no idea what what an impact he would

322
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 1: soon have. But for all of his innovation and work,

323
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: and how I mean, how much of an icon he

324
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 1: was within Hollywood even at that time, like everyone knew

325
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 1: who Max Factor was, even said up you know this

326
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: gorgeous um studio or I should say like beauty salon

327
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,720
Speaker 1: right in Hollywood that people would go to as well.

328
00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: But he didn't get a screen credit for his work

329
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,920
Speaker 1: until Night with the Technicolor production, which yes I did

330
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 1: watch as a child, Goldwyn Follies. What's it about? I mean,

331
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:24,439
Speaker 1: it's it about? So? The follies were essentially like the

332
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: stage shows, so lots of singing and dancing and glitzy

333
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 1: costumes and just technicolor bedazzlement. And we've been giving all

334
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: of this time and attention to Max Factor, which he

335
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:39,720
Speaker 1: absolutely deserves because he's an amazing individual. But simultaneously, we

336
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,119
Speaker 1: basically have the rise of a makeup family dynasty. Yeah,

337
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,200
Speaker 1: so the Westmore Boys, and there were so many of them,

338
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:52,480
Speaker 1: so many really cornered this market. And I had never

339
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: heard of the Westmore Boys. Obviously we've heard of Max

340
00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 1: Factor because it's a household cosmetic name um. But the

341
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: Westmore boys weren't so much about creating lines of cosmetics

342
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 1: for women off screen, like Factor eventually got into but

343
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: really getting into Hollywood. And similar to Max Factor, who

344
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: was a Polish immigrant, George Westmore emigrated from England and

345
00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,119
Speaker 1: opened a wig and hat store in Hollywood, and in

346
00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: the nineteen tens he began trading Hollywood prostitutes hairstyling for

347
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: their makeup tips, which is so fantastic, I know, so interesting.

348
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 1: So like, here's a group of people that society dismisses,

349
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: and your your gross and your unacceptable, and you your

350
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,720
Speaker 1: harlots for all that makeup you wear. But this is

351
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:51,640
Speaker 1: where the leader of this makeup dynasty gets his makeup

352
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: ideas and he really entrenches himself into the Hollywood system.

353
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 1: So in nineteen seventeen, old Georgie Boy found the first

354
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:07,600
Speaker 1: movie makeup department at Sella Studios. And he has six sons,

355
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: and at one point they were just all working at

356
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 1: all of you know, individually, at different major studios. So

357
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 1: you have Monty Westmore who's working for David o'sals Nick

358
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: Big Deal. You have Earned who was at twentieth Century Fox,

359
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: Percy who was at Warner Brothers. Wali's at Paramount, Frank

360
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: also is at Paramount for a while, and then you

361
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: have Bud who's at Universal. And as I was reading

362
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: about all of these west More boys, I was like,

363
00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,840
Speaker 1: is that a monopoly? So an unlikely story in today's

364
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: twentieth century gendered makeup landscape to think of a father

365
00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 1: grooming his six sons in the makeup artistry business. Yeah,

366
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: And I mean there's there's a lot of different social

367
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: factors that work there because you've got the, like you said,

368
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 1: the professionalization issue, but also just the idea that kind

369
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 1: of makeup at this time was still considered sort of

370
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: a special effect, especially to the degree that makeup artists

371
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: for film we're trying to slather it on people's faces

372
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: to cover up in imperfections and make them appear different

373
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,439
Speaker 1: or of even of a different race altogether, a different ethnicity. Um.

374
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 1: And so that's why I kept looking, like, where are

375
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: the women? Why are there all these dudes? And I

376
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 1: think it has a lot to do with the fact

377
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 1: that this was a professional special effects realm well, because

378
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: it's also distinct from beauty salon work. Even though the

379
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: Westmoores did open a beauty salon in Hollywood. Um, but

380
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: that would be more of a feminized profession and also

381
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: just straight up makeup entrepreneurialism where you do have some

382
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: major women at this time beginning to emerge like selling

383
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: essentially women their problem areas. Um, but this is so

384
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 1: specific to Hollywood and this very particular industry need which

385
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: was very much tied up to with film tech analogy,

386
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: and it was a demand produced honestly like by the

387
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 1: rapidly developing camera and film tech. But one more name

388
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 1: though that we need to mention is yet another guy.

389
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: We have a dude named William J. Tuttle who was

390
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: establishing himself a little bit later after Westmore in Factor

391
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: were big names. He came along and established himself as

392
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: one of Hollywood's most successful makeup artist who mostly worked

393
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: at MGM, And I wanted to mention him just as

394
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: an example of how you would at this point get

395
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,880
Speaker 1: into the job. Yeah. So if he landed in Studio

396
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 1: City through taking art classes at the University of Southern

397
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: California and through getting an apprenticeship with fellow makeup artist

398
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: Jack John at Twenty Century Pictures. So once he did

399
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,200
Speaker 1: land at MGM the Tuttle recalled studio chief Louis B.

400
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: Mayer indicating that all women should appear beautiful and all

401
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: men should be handsome. And that's a good thing to

402
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: Number two is that these guys were definitely shaping the

403
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 1: beauty standards of ladies on screen, but also handsomeness standards.

404
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 1: Like Max Factor worked with Rudolf Valentino, who was one

405
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: of the earliest Hollywood heart throbs, on creating his quote

406
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: unquote dark Latin lover look. Yeah, which we'll get into

407
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: the whole uh dark Latin lover aspect in just a minute. Um.

408
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: But back to Tuttle. He also got into making and

409
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: selling his own makeup. In he launched Custom Color Cosmetics,

410
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: which became the industry standard for the next twenty years.

411
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: But as important a role as all these guys had,

412
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: makeup artists really didn't get a lot of industry prestige

413
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 1: for a very long time. For instance, Tuttle received an

414
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,879
Speaker 1: Honorary Academy Award in five and that was the first

415
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,120
Speaker 1: time the Academy think it was the first time. Oh

416
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 1: no, no no, no, there was one other Academy that Bud

417
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 1: Westmore received in um. But they were these two random awards.

418
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't a competitive category that came up every year.

419
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: Four makeup artistry as it is today, Yeah, And I

420
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: don't know. I think part of that is that just

421
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: the actual like technological innovation aspect is so recognized now

422
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,639
Speaker 1: that the role that makeup can really play in making

423
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 1: or breaking a character. And so we're going to get

424
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: more into, uh, those technological developments in today's industry. And

425
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break. So in

426
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: Hollywood terms, the makeup artistry really is a science, as

427
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: it has had to continually evolve even still today in

428
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,359
Speaker 1: order to meet the man's of evolving phil technology and

429
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: as well discuss in a moment racist casting. But if

430
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: we go back to Max factor for a minute, he

431
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: essentially ran this cosmetics lab. To begin with, you always

432
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: wore a lab coat, and which I know wearing a

433
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: lab coat doesn't necessarily mean you're scientists, but I'm just

434
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: saying he looked the part. But he took a very

435
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: scientific approach to trying to perfect how best to approach

436
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: women's makeup and figure out what exactly they needed to

437
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 1: make them look less disgusting. Um, but he used, for instance,

438
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: this horrifying looking beauty micrometer to measure all of the

439
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,120
Speaker 1: possible ratios of women's facial features and see how it

440
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: matched up to, you know, the symmetrical ideal. And there

441
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 1: was only I think there's only one beauty micrometer in existence.

442
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: It was a major flop. He did not sell any

443
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 1: because these women were having to wear these like metallic

444
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 1: cages on their faces that looked like torture devices. Well, yeah,

445
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean the way you describe it, Kristen sounds so

446
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: like technologically advanced, it sounds so precise. But when you

447
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: look at a picture of the thing, it looks like

448
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: something out of a horror movie or out of the

449
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: freaking Spanish in position, it's like it's a it's a

450
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: full faced helmet thing with nails basically, and you put

451
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 1: it on your face, putting eye out factor, the X factor,

452
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: what are you doing for you thinking? But for another example,

453
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: a less terrifying example of him innovating to catch up

454
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: with film technology, Color presented a new set of challenges,

455
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: and a number of actors, especially a list actors, were

456
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:54,560
Speaker 1: nervous of how being on color film might amplify their

457
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: facial flaws because in a lot of ways, black and

458
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: white film is very forgiving, especially if you, you know,

459
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: have some good grease paint. I was gonna say, amplify

460
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: their flaws as opposed to the literal food they were

461
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: wearing on their faces before. Well, by this point, once

462
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: we get to like the late nineteen thirties, like black

463
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: and white film had improved um but with color factor

464
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 1: had a new challenge of creating, you know, less obvious

465
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: makeup that would look good on screen. So in nineteen

466
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: thirty nine he debuted his natural looking, blendable pancake foundation.

467
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: That was a revolution because it was something that would

468
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,000
Speaker 1: be used not only by actors on screen, but also

469
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: could easily be sold to women off screen. So you

470
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: have all of these pancake advertisements at the time, with

471
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: for instance, Judy Garland's face saying, ladies, don't you want

472
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: to look like Judy? Judy, Judy, which is such a

473
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 1: departure from before when it was like only prostitutes or

474
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: actresses who we associate with pros toutes anyway are going

475
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: to wear makeup, you harlots. Now it's being sold to

476
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,840
Speaker 1: the masses. But you also see that throwback to to

477
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: Edwardian era of it being maybe a little more acceptable

478
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: as well, because it is less obvious. Although yeah, people aren't.

479
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: People are no longer like applying like fluff or nutter

480
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 1: to their faces. It's like, oh, we can look, we

481
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 1: can wear makeup, but look natural. Is it bad that

482
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: that just immediately triggered my sweet too? Oh well, I

483
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: guess it's not fluffer nut fluffer. Nutter is the sandwich

484
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: when you mix the marshmallow fluff and peanut butter. So

485
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: I should have said, your ladies are no longer carrying

486
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 1: around a tub of marshmallow fluff to apply to themselves. All.

487
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about this fluff or nutter now, Caroline. But

488
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: my college dreamy used to eat this all the time.

489
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: I don't know how she didn't. But then, but the

490
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,479
Speaker 1: innovation didn't stop with pancake, obviously. I mean you have

491
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: Technicolor coming along, and all of the intense lighting that

492
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: it required demanded new kinds of makeup, and then of

493
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 1: course Technicolor goes away, and so you have new kinds

494
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: of makeup that are needed. So it's a continual science.

495
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Like people who try to poopoo. Makeup artistry is just like, oh,

496
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: it's just putting on makeup. No big deal, No, he's

497
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: a big deal. Well yeah, especially for these early pioneers

498
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 1: who had to keep up with things as they changed

499
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: minute by minute. Well yeah, and there is, of course,

500
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: you know, the the innovation needed to figure out how

501
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: to make white actors look not white so that they

502
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 1: could Oh god, I'm talking about yellow face and brown

503
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: face and red face. That's an aspect of makeup artistry

504
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: history that I didn't really think about it first, like, oh, wait, no,

505
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 1: they're also innovating to um portray racist caricatures. Right, of

506
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 1: course they back then, they would not have argued that

507
00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: those are racist caricatures. They were hiring white actors to

508
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: play people of color so that they would be more

509
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 1: palatable to basically white audiences. And the only roles that

510
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: actual people of color, whether you're black, Asian, whatever, would

511
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: be those very very racist, stereotypical portrayals. Well, and in

512
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: you know, movie magazines at the time like Photoplay, etcetera,

513
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: those kinds of quote unquote transformations of the white actor

514
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: into say, an Asian character would have been documented and

515
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: profiled as this amazing thing that you have to see.

516
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:37,959
Speaker 1: Isn't this so incredible? Look? She doesn't look quite as

517
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: American anymore. What movie magic. So there are so many

518
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:50,200
Speaker 1: examples of this happening, especially in early Hollywood, but even

519
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: even uncomfortably recent UM and Max factors airbrush breakthrough was

520
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: especially helpful for this, but you also had innovations of

521
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,520
Speaker 1: using things like facial prosthetics, elastics, and adhesives to maybe

522
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: pull back foreheads and eyelids to alter facial structures. Meanwhile,

523
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: they're actual actors of color out there who were like, no,

524
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: you're not gonna you're not gonna hire me for the Okay, cool,

525
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: You're just gonna like racist, be racist and pull your

526
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: eyes back. Awesome, great, thank guys. For instance, in nineteen fifteens,

527
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: Madam Butterfly Mary Pickford played Cho Cho San and she

528
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: was sort of the one who was at the forefront

529
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: of this yellow face Hollywood trend. And I mentioned Rudolf

530
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: Valentino just a minute ago in the quote unquote Latin

531
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 1: lover starred in The Sheik and his makeup folks had

532
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: to figure out how to tow the line between Arab face,

533
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 1: which was acceptable for audiences at the time, and black face,

534
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: which by outright black face in that kind of role

535
00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: would not have been as as okay, So their solution

536
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: was to paint his hands brown so that you could

537
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: see the contrast whenever he would gently caress his white

538
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: female co stars face. So I mean, just just thinking

539
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: about that kind of strategizing is a little bit of

540
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: a mind bender. And then we have an incident that

541
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: we talked about in our Asian Fetish episode where Annime Wong,

542
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: who was sensational, was passed over by Louise Rayner to

543
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 1: play Olan in The Good Earth and Rayner won an

544
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 1: Oscar for this role. This woman she was made up

545
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: to look Asian, and it was considered, I mean, it

546
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: wasn't considered. It was a huge sensation at the time.

547
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: And Annime Wong was offered another role in the film

548
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 1: and she just turned it down because she was done

549
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: with the whole thing. Well yeah, I mean this whole

550
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 1: the whole yellow face painting white people as Asian people

551
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: thing was such a big business in Hollywood, for for

552
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: Hollywood makeup artist. Because you've also got in Katherine Hepburn

553
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: as Chinese woman Jade Tan and the Dragon Seed in

554
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty two Shirley McClain's My Geisha. It has a

555
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: plot that actively revolves around a whole yellow face ruse.

556
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: And in nineteen sixty five, William J. Tuttle, who we

557
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, received that honorary Oscar for his work transforming

558
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 1: actor Tony Randall in the movie The Seven Faces of

559
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: Dr Law, in which Randall play is sort of an

560
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: ambiguously Asian medicine man. Yeah, that's the doctor Allow. One

561
00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:40,919
Speaker 1: of the Seven Faces is that doctor Allow. And going

562
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: back briefly though to Katherine Hepburn and Dragon Seed, which

563
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: I had never heard of before. Um, there was a

564
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,240
Speaker 1: blog post I was reading about it over at Turner

565
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 1: Classic Movies dot com and it was saying, how through

566
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 1: a contemporary lens, it's a little bit conflicting because the

567
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 1: plot itself and the character of Jade Tan that Cheaper

568
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: Trays is was ahead of its time in some ways

569
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: that it definitely has like feminist undercurrents running through it,

570
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: and we know as well that Katherine Hepburn herself was

571
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: very much a feminist, but all of that is kind

572
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,240
Speaker 1: of erased by the discomfort that, oh she's she's dressed

573
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: up as a Chinese woman. But even more recently, this

574
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 1: made me think about the Hue and Cry over Zoe

575
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: saw Donna being given a prosthetic nose and having her

576
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: skin tone darkened in order to start in that highly

577
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: controversial Nina Simone biopic. So from this less Rosie angle,

578
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:41,399
Speaker 1: this is another impact though of makeup artist free, where

579
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 1: it's like, okay, makeup art Street is so not just

580
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: about makeup. It's about beauty norms and film technology and

581
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:57,720
Speaker 1: even reflecting our race relations and outright racism at the time. Yeah.

582
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,680
Speaker 1: And so when we do take into consideration and how

583
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: these early makeup artist jobs were so multifascinated in terms

584
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,440
Speaker 1: of incorporating both yes, art, but also science and technology,

585
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: and they were professionalist, it's really no surprise, like we

586
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 1: said that this is a predominantly male industry from the

587
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: early era. Yeah, and if we even transition from more

588
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,799
Speaker 1: of the beauty makeup artistry that we would typically think

589
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: of into more special effects makeup, I mean, kind of

590
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,800
Speaker 1: less surprisingly, it's still all dudes across the board. And

591
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: just as a heads up, I mean, if you're a

592
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: special effects makeup artist, you are part modeler, sculptor, painter, chemist, beautician.

593
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean this again is kind of a I mean

594
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 1: it's a stem type job as well. And if we

595
00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:50,760
Speaker 1: look at who the legends are in special effects makeup, again,

596
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,880
Speaker 1: it's all dudes. And it's just like, it's so funny

597
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: to me, like reading all of this, because we stereotypically

598
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: think of girls, little girls being the one who like

599
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: dressed up, play dress up and put on makeup and

600
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 1: all this, but clearly you have all these boys who

601
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: are dreaming about it as well. Although when it comes

602
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: to special effects makeup, this is when we get into

603
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:15,480
Speaker 1: the grotesque schools and goblins and monsters, um. But one

604
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: of the first guys who really made a name for

605
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: himself was Lawn Cheney, Man of a Thousand Faces, who

606
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: is a silent film star during the era when like

607
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: you come to set with your makeup arty on, and

608
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,840
Speaker 1: he did all of his own special effects makeup and

609
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: was kind of obsessive about it. And he once said

610
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: that as a man's face reveals much that is in

611
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: his mind and heart, I attempt to show this by

612
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 1: the makeup that I use. Can you imagine like a

613
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: leading dude film star saying that today, like Bradley Cooper

614
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:53,120
Speaker 1: talking about how his makeup communicates who he is. I

615
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:57,480
Speaker 1: wonder how all of his like perfectly quoft hair swoops

616
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: communicate who he is? Well, you know what I gotta

617
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: give to b C. He was. He was a very

618
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 1: stagy guy. He has a very stage heavy background and um,

619
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 1: you know he doesn't seem to gender hung up. Okay,

620
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: now I'm thinking too much about Bradley Cooper gets me

621
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: off on a tangent. We've also got the name Jack Pierce.

622
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 1: He's the makeup artist who turned a Boris karl Off

623
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,839
Speaker 1: into Frankenstein's monster with that tall, misshapen head and the

624
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: screws and this and that creepy, creepy and fun fact

625
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:31,520
Speaker 1: about why Frankenstein is green or Frankenstein as a Frankenstein,

626
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,760
Speaker 1: It's not because Pierce wanted him to be green because

627
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 1: he was on black and white film, but because the

628
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: green would play off to create that particular shade on

629
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:45,440
Speaker 1: the black and white film. So now when you see

630
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: a Frankenstein Frankenstein monster costume and it's green, that's why interesting. Well,

631
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 1: a name that should sound familiar. Bud Westmore, he of

632
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: the Westmore Makeup Dynasty, worked with Chris Mueller and designer

633
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: Militant Patrick to make the frog suit for gil Man.

634
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 1: Gil Man was super creepy. Looking creepy but also hilarious

635
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 1: and also sounds like like a frat bros nickname. Um.

636
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,360
Speaker 1: And I also want to note that Bud Westmore was

637
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: a makeup artist for red facing Rock Hudson in his

638
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,919
Speaker 1: starring role as Tazza, son of Cone Chiesi, in which

639
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: he played a Native American, so they just reddened his

640
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: skin and gave him some quote unquote native body paint

641
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: too good. Um. But then John Chambers is the Oscar

642
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: winning special effects artist behind Planet of the Apes, and

643
00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: we have Dick Smith to thank for freaking everyone out

644
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,880
Speaker 1: by making the little girl in the Exorcist the little

645
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: Girl in the Exorcist. And then finally in makeup, It's

646
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:01,799
Speaker 1: finally added as a competitive category the Oscars and Rich

647
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: Baker wins it for the first time for an American

648
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: werewolf in Paris. Well, screw an American werewolf in Paris.

649
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: I want to talk about how Rich Baker was responsible

650
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 1: for Michael Jackson's wear cat in the Thriller video. I

651
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: can't even tell you how many times little Caroline like

652
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 1: on a stick day, would watch the making of Thriller

653
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 1: video that my parents taped off of TV for me.

654
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:31,839
Speaker 1: Watched it over and over again. This is maybe my

655
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: new favorite fact about you. Yeah, oh my god, Like

656
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,239
Speaker 1: I have it steered into my brain. The scene where

657
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: they're putting the yellow contact lenses into Michael's eye because

658
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: they were like giant hard contacts and he's like crying

659
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: and they've got all the sailing solution trickling down his

660
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,919
Speaker 1: face and everything. But yeah, watching them apply and and

661
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: of course I didn't connect it until just now, and

662
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: so yeah, in addition to all that, all that contact Messa,

663
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,520
Speaker 1: I could just like feel the pain watching who I

664
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: now know is Rich Baker apply that, like where cats

665
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 1: face and you've got Michael Jackson underneath, like layers and

666
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: layers and layers of makeup and prosthetics. You felt like,

667
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 1: oh my god, how's he even breathing under that? Because

668
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:13,920
Speaker 1: they had to do the full cast of his face

669
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: and he had straws in his nose. And now I'm

670
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: just narrating the making of thriller video. I just love

671
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: imagining you watching it though as you're sick. That for

672
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: me was just the PBS and of Green Gables series.

673
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: Wait different you and I. Sometimes they asked some difference faces. Um,

674
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 1: but even today Hollywood makeup artistry. It's still having to

675
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: catch up to changing industry standards and technology because hello,

676
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:52,280
Speaker 1: h D film demands a whole new kind of makeup.

677
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: And side note, HD film apparently brings out the ages

678
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: jerk in some Hollywood folks, as cinematographer Bill Row, who

679
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: maybe Bill Row is a fine man, but he did

680
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: tell the Today Show quote, you watch a basketball game

681
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: in h D and then you wonder what a close

682
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,280
Speaker 1: up will look like on a forty year old woman,

683
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: Bill Row, Bill Row, just go take a seat, Bill,

684
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 1: go to time out. Well, now actors and other people

685
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:25,080
Speaker 1: in Hollywood are having the same reaction to HD that

686
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 1: people did back in the day when we transition to color.

687
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,959
Speaker 1: I mean everybody's like, oh my god, you're gonna see everything. Yeah,

688
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: and I personally then this really doesn't have anything to

689
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: do so much with makeup artist free But watching especially

690
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: television shows in HD and even movies, it's not I

691
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: don't like it. Really it looks too real, like you're

692
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,600
Speaker 1: too close. Uh huh. I feel like I'm watching a play.

693
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 1: And if I want to watch a play, I got

694
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: it with theater. Yeah, I prefer not to do that.

695
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 1: I would go see your spring play, thank you. But

696
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: in addition to the whole h D is you, makeup

697
00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: artists also have to deal with the whole thing of

698
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 1: reality TV, so actually being in people's living rooms and oh,

699
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 1: you're a real person, but you've still got a look

700
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: like a glamor pus for the TV camera, a glamour puss,

701
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: I mean yeah, And that is one of the reasons

702
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: why the Kardashians makeup artist Joyce Vanelli is considered one

703
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:27,000
Speaker 1: of the most influential makeup artists in the world. But

704
00:45:27,040 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: I feel like she's in sort of like a different category.

705
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: But she did talk to broadly about how when she

706
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: decided to get into reality friends of hers in Hollywood

707
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: were like, gross, that is, you know, that's some D

708
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,759
Speaker 1: level stuff. But now she's the makeup artists of the Kardashians,

709
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 1: so she's doing a okay or should I say k

710
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: okay wow wow wow wow um. And much like other

711
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: types of special effects in post production and visual effects

712
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: in Hollywood, studios want this stuff cheaper, faster, but still

713
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 1: somehow better, So you've still got the same outsourcing issues

714
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: and opting for cheaper c g I instead of those

715
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 1: old school special effects makeup or they're just gonna pay

716
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,640
Speaker 1: less outright. And this is the thing that drove seven

717
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: time Oscar winner Rich Baker, he of Michael Jackson thriller

718
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,120
Speaker 1: video fame, to retire. This made me so sad because

719
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: he had this like huge warehouse where he would develop

720
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: these creatures and all of these masks and models and

721
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,279
Speaker 1: all of his makeup, not unlike I like to think

722
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: Max Factors Lab that he developed all of his makeup in.

723
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 1: But Baker said, I like to do things right, and

724
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 1: they wanted cheap and fast. That is not what I

725
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,280
Speaker 1: want to do. So I just decided it is basically

726
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: time to get out. No more wear cat faces. Honestly, Caroline,

727
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: I think you gotta try that next Halloween. Oh god,

728
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,880
Speaker 1: I would get way too claustrophobic. I don't like math

729
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: col Rich Baker, I know. But the thing that I

730
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:08,680
Speaker 1: was trying to cobble together in my mind is I'm

731
00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:11,880
Speaker 1: reading all of this is sort of what does it

732
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: mean in terms of how Hollywood beauty standards, especially what

733
00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:18,480
Speaker 1: we consider I mean, but it's not just beauty, it's

734
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: the beauty and grotesquery as well of how that filters

735
00:47:24,160 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: down to us as an audience and as consumers and

736
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: as people looking out at us in the mirror. And

737
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways, I think that Hollywood makeup

738
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 1: artistry in terms of the like Max Factor, you know,

739
00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: painting Greta Garbo's face and like everyone woman in America

740
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,759
Speaker 1: trying to mimic the look, I feel like that's a

741
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,440
Speaker 1: thing of the past, especially with the rise of reality

742
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: stars and also beauty bloggers because Michelle Fan just to

743
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,440
Speaker 1: name one name, is probably you know, more of a

744
00:47:55,480 --> 00:48:00,839
Speaker 1: household name than even Max Factor. So I don't know,

745
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 1: like I don't entirely know what to think about this

746
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,760
Speaker 1: very surprising history of makeup artistry and how even trying

747
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: to get a snapshot today of what it looks like

748
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: just for film it was a little bit tough. I

749
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: feel like makeup artists still don't get the recognition they deserve. Well. Also,

750
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: I mean it's a different type of recognition because you

751
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: have Max Factor who was developing all of these products

752
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: and technologies that eventually inspired women all over the world

753
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: to look a certain way or try to look a

754
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,280
Speaker 1: certain way with his products once it hit the larger market.

755
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: Now you have all the products at the ready. You

756
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,120
Speaker 1: can walk into a Sepphora with your v I b

757
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 1: Rouge card and buy all the makeup in the world. Um,

758
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: but now you're being inspired by, like you said, beauty

759
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 1: bloggers and people who are making their tricks of the

760
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,560
Speaker 1: trade readily available. Yeah. Although I mean like the innovations

761
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,920
Speaker 1: never stop. I mean I feel like every week there's

762
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: some new contoy orring tip I just can't figure out. Yeah,

763
00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: I'm currently in the middle of trying to figure out

764
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: what type of makeup primer to switch to. I need

765
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:11,720
Speaker 1: to switch to something for sensitive breakout proNT scan listeners suggestions,

766
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: but I'm so hopeful to hear from some makeup artist listening.

767
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, this clearly was a very limited snapshot of

768
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: the industry. It's really just some early Hollywood history. Um,

769
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: but hopefully gives you a little a sense of your heritage.

770
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: And also, I mean, just for for me and my

771
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: perspective on it, my appreciation for the impact of makeup

772
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: artistry has certainly broadened. So listeners, send us your letters.

773
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at house stuffwork dot com is our email address,

774
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: or you can also tweet us a mom Stuff podcast

775
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:53,279
Speaker 1: or messages on Facebook. And we've got a couple of

776
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: messages to share with you when we come right back

777
00:49:56,320 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: from a quick break. With the holidays almost here, you

778
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: don't even have time to go to the post office

779
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 1: and deal with all of that traffic, the parking, carrying

780
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: all those packages and inevitably dropping them all over yourself.

781
00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: It's going to be packed with everybody mailing those last

782
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: minute gifts. So do what the pros do and you

783
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,359
Speaker 1: stamps dot com instead. With stamps dot com, you can

784
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,760
Speaker 1: avoid all that hassle of gone to the post office

785
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: during the busy holiday season. Everything you would do at

786
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 1: the post office you can do right from your desk

787
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: Stamps dot com. Let's you buy in print official US

788
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: posted using your own computer and printer. It's so easy

789
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: and convenient, And right now you can sign up for

790
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: stamps dot com and use our promo code stuff for

791
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,000
Speaker 1: a special offer. It's a four week trial with a

792
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:48,319
Speaker 1: dollar bonus offtware including postage and a digital scale. So

793
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: don't wait. Go to stamps dot com before you do

794
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: anything else. Click on the microphone at the top of

795
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:55,879
Speaker 1: the homepage and type in stuff that's stamps dot com.

796
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: Enter stuff and now back to the show, And we've

797
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:10,279
Speaker 1: got a couple from our witch is Halloween week. I've

798
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: got one here from Brittany, who writes, I was just

799
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: listening to your Witches episode and it reminded me of

800
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: a moment I had over the weekend. I was dog

801
00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: sitting and somehow ended up watching a marathon of Hallmark

802
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:25,600
Speaker 1: Channels the Good Witch movies. In the end of the

803
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: first movie, should I say spoiler alert? Are you playing

804
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: on watching a Hallmark Channel original movie and being surprised

805
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 1: by the ending? The town's sheriff is defending Katherine Bell's character,

806
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: the town's quite lovely new resident Witch from the Uppea

807
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 1: mayor's wife who claims that this herb shop owning woman

808
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: is going to bring evil to the town. The sheriff

809
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: actually uses a line saying that she quote may not

810
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 1: look like us, but that doesn't make her bad. This

811
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: is a white cis gender man talking to white cis

812
00:51:56,960 --> 00:52:00,800
Speaker 1: gender people about a white cis gender woman. I actually

813
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: laughed out loud apparently, which is are how Hallmark deals

814
00:52:05,400 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: with diversity instead of actually dealing with diversity. I love

815
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 1: the podcast and Happy Halloween, Brittany A believed Happy Halloween

816
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 1: to you. I know it is a long ways away

817
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 1: from Halloween, um, but that letter made me laugh out

818
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 1: loud as well. Well, I have a letter here from Chelsea.

819
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,239
Speaker 1: She is one of several people who have written in

820
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: telling me to get on those books and movies about

821
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: Harry Potter. So, Chelsea, I can only say that I'm

822
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: working on it. Um, she says, I've been interested in

823
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 1: which is both fictional and historical, since I could read,

824
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: as you mentioned in the episode, Hermione grangers on a

825
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: lot of which lists. However, I think because of the

826
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,720
Speaker 1: content of the episode, because you were looking at films

827
00:52:49,719 --> 00:52:51,799
Speaker 1: and TV shows, you missed some great points about what

828
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 1: makes the witches in the Harry Potter series so appealing.

829
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: In the early books, Hermione is described as having bushy

830
00:52:57,640 --> 00:52:59,279
Speaker 1: hair and buck teeth, and while there are a few

831
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,880
Speaker 1: times she dressed for special occasions, her focus is on

832
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 1: her studies, elf rights, justice and friendship. She is strong, smart,

833
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,399
Speaker 1: kind and hard working. She never takes the lazy root

834
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: and it's someone Harry admired. Hermione, alongside Luna McGonagall, Jenny

835
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,320
Speaker 1: Molly Weasley, and of course Lily Potter, have been established

836
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: as strong female characters who stand up for themselves and others.

837
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,120
Speaker 1: The Harry Potter series is often underestimated as a children's series. However,

838
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 1: these were the women I grew up with. Is my

839
00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:29,160
Speaker 1: strong female role models. Maybe this is because I've always

840
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 1: been a feminist, but always because I noticed straight away

841
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: that the female characters and the novels have equal parts

842
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 1: with the male characters, and there are very few instances

843
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,800
Speaker 1: of gender di vibe. While they use magic for everything

844
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: from domestic chores to protection from evil forces, the female

845
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: characters and Harry Potter represents the strength and equality that

846
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: I know I crave in my literature and reality. Maybe

847
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: it is in part that the series was written by

848
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,240
Speaker 1: a woman, but I think that the Harry Potter series

849
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 1: has some of the best and well rounded female characters

850
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: who are great role models for all readers. I know

851
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: Hermione certainly had an impact on me and also on

852
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,799
Speaker 1: my young cousin. Chelsea goes on to say sorry for

853
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 1: the long email. I've only just caught up to recent

854
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: episodes and wanted to share my thoughts with you and

855
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:11,160
Speaker 1: maybe convinced Caroline into reading the books too. So thanks

856
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,759
Speaker 1: for the encouragement, Chelsea, and thanks for writing in, and

857
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: thanks to everybody who's written into us. Mom stuff at

858
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com is where you can send

859
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:22,279
Speaker 1: your letters and for links all of our social media

860
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: as well as all of our blogs, videos, and podcasts

861
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:29,479
Speaker 1: with this one including our sources so you can learn

862
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 1: more about the history of Hollywood makeup artistry. Head on

863
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: over to stuff mom Never Told You dot com for

864
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,560
Speaker 1: more on this and thousands of other topics. Because it

865
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:51,360
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com