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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey Aaron, Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: To the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci

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Speaker 1: and Joe Madden and I cannot wait.

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Speaker 2: To talk to you Joe about the issue of.

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Speaker 1: Justice, book justice and frontier justice and when it comes

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Speaker 1: to baseball. You know what I'm talking about. The hit

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Speaker 1: by Pitchy had a lot of dust ups last week,

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Speaker 1: both involving Los Angeles teams, the Angels and the Dodgers. Joe,

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the La Dodgers San Diego

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Speaker 1: Padres last week because if you're watching the game Thursday,

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Speaker 1: you saw the greatest attraction in baseball and of our generation,

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Speaker 1: sho hey Otani hit by a pitch at ninety nine

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Speaker 1: point eight miles per hour that both the Dodgers and

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball said was thrown intentionally by Robert Swarez.

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Speaker 1: What would make a pitcher throw a baseball at nearly

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Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour at the greatest drawing card

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Speaker 1: in baseball. Well, it turns out it wasn't unintentional hit

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Speaker 1: by pitch for one of the Padres players, Fernando Tatis Junior.

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Speaker 2: Now Suarez, Robert Tuarez.

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Speaker 1: The pitcher who hit Otani, did say a couple of

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Speaker 1: days later. We at least the next day, Hey, man,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't intentional. I wasn't trying to hit him. I

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Speaker 1: don't think you're going to convince the Dodgers of that,

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Speaker 1: and Joe, you're not going to convince me of that.

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Speaker 1: That was a four seam fastball from a right handed

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Speaker 1: pitcher to a left handed hitter. That was the farthest

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Speaker 1: inside that Robert Suarez has ever thrown a four seam

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Speaker 1: fastball to a left handed hitter.

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Speaker 2: The count was three to zero.

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Speaker 1: The Padres were tired of watching Fernando Tatist get hit

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Speaker 1: by pitches from the Dodgers, even if they acknowledged that

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Speaker 1: they were not intentional.

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Speaker 2: Show.

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Speaker 1: Hey, just to give you an idea, and you know this, Joe,

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Speaker 1: for seeing fastballs to off handed hitters, you just don't

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Speaker 1: see major league pitchers lose them to that side. Shohy

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Speaker 1: in his career, had been hit only four times on

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Speaker 1: four seemers from a right handed pitcher, never twice. In

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Speaker 1: the same year, he was hit two times in three

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Speaker 1: days on four seemers from Padre's right handers. Joe, my

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Speaker 1: personal opinion for this. I wish baseball would stop this nonsense,

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Speaker 1: this testosterone fueled and macho mann stuff. Hey, you hit

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Speaker 1: one of our guys and we know it wasn't intentional,

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Speaker 1: but just to get back at you and to quote

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Speaker 1: unquote protect my guy, I've got to fire one hundred

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Speaker 1: mile an hour seed up around your neck, which is

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Speaker 1: where Otani was hit, but really high on the shoulder.

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Speaker 1: I don't like it. I think actually the actual book justice,

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Speaker 1: which was three days suspension versuares which he appealed, should

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Speaker 1: be much longer that.

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Speaker 2: That should actually be at least a week.

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Speaker 1: I look around the game today and see too many

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Speaker 1: star players shut down because they break bones on hit

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Speaker 1: by pitches. In this case, to me, it certainly looked intentional.

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Speaker 1: In any case, I think the penalty should be at

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Speaker 1: least a week. Suspicion, get way to get your take

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Speaker 1: on it, Joe, You've been in the dugout. You know

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Speaker 1: how emotions rage, and we know in the Dodgers Padres

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Speaker 1: series they certainly do.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. First of all, I saw a little bit of

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Speaker 3: the replay. Yeah, it's intentional. Of course, it's intentional, but

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Speaker 3: they have to say it's not intentional. Or they do

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Speaker 3: get the week suspension or maybe even more than that,

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Speaker 3: So you have to have to play along a be

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Speaker 3: the tatisse things. Though I totally agree with something you

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Speaker 3: just said there in the sense that and you know

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Speaker 3: when it's unintentional, you know when a pitch gets away,

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Speaker 3: because I went through this with the Cubs, with the

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Speaker 3: Cardinals primarily, and then you know, we did it with

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Speaker 3: the Yankees and the Red Sox with the Rays, and

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Speaker 3: there was times that you know, we had some pretty

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Speaker 3: big fights. And the big one was with the Red

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Speaker 3: Sox by a pitch but Shieldsy hit Crisp Cocoa Crisp

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Speaker 3: and the thigh based on an incident the night before.

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Speaker 3: And the other one was play at the play they

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Speaker 3: didn't like in the spring training game. So the Yankees

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Speaker 3: then Shelley Duncan slid in a second base, spikes up

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Speaker 3: and he really got Aki more like kind of in

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Speaker 3: thigh high or even higher than that. It was obviously intentional.

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Speaker 3: So when you see things like that, quite frankly, when

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Speaker 3: you're in a dugout, it's different. When you're in the clubhouse,

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Speaker 3: it's different. I mean, there's this sense of a band

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Speaker 3: of brothers in a baseball world. I'm not definitely not

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Speaker 3: talking in the real world. I'm just saying the fact

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Speaker 3: that you have this feeling, this desire to protect one another,

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Speaker 3: and you do, you will lose respect among the group,

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Speaker 3: and it can't create some kind of a chasm between

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Speaker 3: the group, just just purely from the perspective that you're

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Speaker 3: not defending each other. And that's one of the things.

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Speaker 3: That's one of the And you know you've played a

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Speaker 3: lot in your past also, and you know that that's

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Speaker 3: really important to the group that we are there for

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Speaker 3: one another. We talk team all the time, and you

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Speaker 3: know there's pictures that do not permit they're better guys

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Speaker 3: to get hit like that and get hit like that often,

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Speaker 3: and that's been passed on through generations. Probably the difference

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Speaker 3: what you're talking about is tough because Suarez throws that

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Speaker 3: hard and furthermore, if he's gonna throw that hard up

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Speaker 3: and in that's I totally disagree with that. That I

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Speaker 3: will agree with I only I like, quite frankly, yes,

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Speaker 3: I'm okay with getting hit a guy getting hit once

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Speaker 3: a while when it's deserved, but you don't go up

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Speaker 3: above the waist. And the point there also is don't

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Speaker 3: ask somebody to do that. I'm not talking about the

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Speaker 3: manner necessarily. It could come from somebody within the group,

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Speaker 3: and it could come from a conversation he had in

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Speaker 3: spring training. You gotta have guys with command that know

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Speaker 3: how to throw the ball below the waist and get

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Speaker 3: this thing done. Chuck Finley was great, Chuck Philly would

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Speaker 3: pick out a thigh. You get a guy in a

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Speaker 3: thigh over, the situation is over. No fines, nobody has

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Speaker 3: to get their panties in a bunch. Everything happens and

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Speaker 3: it's over. So yes, I'm okay honestly with fighting back.

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Speaker 3: I am. I think a team can ascend just because

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Speaker 3: of that. I think in today's world we can see

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Speaker 3: too much and there's times you have to fight for

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Speaker 3: your turf. So yes, I'm weirdly okay with that. And

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Speaker 3: probably if I ever get a job again, somebody gets

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Speaker 3: hit that's going to point to this interview right now.

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Speaker 3: But I'm not gonna dissemble. I'm not gonna lie to you.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to take exactly how I feel, and that's

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing. So there is a place for it.

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Speaker 3: But the but whomever is the administrator of this getting

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Speaker 3: even this. It's got to be somebody knows what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: You do not throw above the belt, you do not

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Speaker 3: throw anybody's head, neck, whatever. But you have to lay

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Speaker 3: it to rest at some point, and you have to

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Speaker 3: defend your own brute. So long answer, So I think

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Speaker 3: it comes with the layers. But yeah, I'm okay with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that out.

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Speaker 1: And listen, I don't want to be ignorant of the

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Speaker 1: culture that goes on, you know, field level heat of competition,

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Speaker 1: backing up your band of brothers.

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Speaker 2: As you said, it's a great point.

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Speaker 1: What I would do, though, is I would have Major

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Speaker 1: League Baseball take a more active role in diminishing that culture.

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Speaker 1: And again you do that with the penalties. You strengthen

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Speaker 1: the penalties. Three days is nothing, man, And you know,

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Speaker 1: shoey Otani, if he breaks his wrists, he's out six

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Speaker 1: to eight weeks. I mean, it's just not equal justice

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Speaker 1: to me. They yet bat with Tatus. The Dodgers had

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Speaker 1: a guy making his major league debut on the mound

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Speaker 1: in a five to nothing game and he loses an

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Speaker 1: armside sinker, which is why most people get hit these days.

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Speaker 3: I get it.

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Speaker 1: They're tired of watching Tattis get hit. You know he's

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Speaker 1: going to get hit a lot because he starts with

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Speaker 1: that open stance and kind of dives into the baseball.

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Speaker 2: You have to pitch him inside. It's part of the game.

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Speaker 1: I just think the penalties should be stiffer because the

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Speaker 1: consequences are so high.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: We look around the game this year, and it's not

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Speaker 1: just this year. The highest hit by pitch rates in

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Speaker 1: Major League Baseball history have all been the last eight seasons.

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Speaker 1: In one hundred and forty one years, there had never

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Speaker 1: been a hit by pitch rate of zero point eight

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Speaker 1: hit by pitches per game, and yet we've done that

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Speaker 1: ever year for the last eight years, and time after

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Speaker 1: time we're watching guys and Corbyn Carroll is the latest

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Speaker 1: stars of this game have to sit down because they

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Speaker 1: break bones on pitches.

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Speaker 2: It's an epidemic in the game.

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Speaker 1: So if you can take out as much as you

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Speaker 1: can the intentional ones, the unintentional ones are going to happen.

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Speaker 1: I just hate seeing guys have to sit down, the

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Speaker 1: stars of the game especially, but anybody because it hit

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Speaker 1: by pitches.

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Speaker 3: Going back to the Red Sox situation with the Shieldsy

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Speaker 3: and Crisp. It was, you know, really what that was

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Speaker 3: real fight afterwards. I think we had to endure twenty

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Speaker 3: one days of suspensions as a group. I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 3: that was a number. I might be right wrong, Like

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Speaker 3: you know, Gomer Johnny Gomes got suspended. I think I

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Speaker 3: got suspended whatever I mean, I'm not nearly as important players.

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Speaker 3: There was a I think it was twenty one days, so,

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Speaker 3: but it wasn't all concurrent. It had to be spread

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Speaker 3: out over the course of three weeks. And so we

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Speaker 3: were I think we I think we played a man short.

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Speaker 3: Often you'd have to look at all of this. However,

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Speaker 3: there's also a galvanizing to this too. So when you

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Speaker 3: when when you're faith with the situation like this, again,

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Speaker 3: you can never underestimate the you know, the soul and

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Speaker 3: the spirit of the group, and and and the ability

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Speaker 3: to rise to the situation and compensate make up for

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Speaker 3: all of these the lack of deficiency of having enough

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Speaker 3: players out of the field. So again, I remember that distinctly,

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Speaker 3: because everybody was concerned, oh, well, you know, going to

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Speaker 3: be down a guy for twenty one days. I might

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Speaker 3: My recollection is that we did pretty well after that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that we'd have to look it up,

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Speaker 3: but my recollection was that we wasn't wasn't awful. Number one.

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Speaker 3: Number two guys getting hit by pitch at an alarming rate.

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Speaker 3: Is it because guys are thrown at them or because

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Speaker 3: we just have a lack of command and control. I mean,

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Speaker 3: when you're throwing attempting to throw that hard and and

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Speaker 3: and I know I talk to guys all the time,

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Speaker 3: pitching coaches, people that are watching closely. You know, bullpens

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Speaker 3: aren't necessarily about you know, you talk about shape of pitches.

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Speaker 3: I get that, But when it comes down to like

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Speaker 3: like Chuck Filly would sit on the down outside corner

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Speaker 3: for fifteen consecutive pitches. Tommy John never wanted to throw

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Speaker 3: the ball with the plate to be an inch or

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Speaker 3: two off the plate, But that was the primary purpose

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Speaker 3: of a bullpen situation in between starts back in the day.

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Speaker 3: Now it's just about having somebody there with the tablet.

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Speaker 3: You're throwing the ball as hard as you can, spinning

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Speaker 3: the ball as much as you can, and the pitcher

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Speaker 3: is more concerned about the shape of the pitch and

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Speaker 3: the spin on the pitch. Those kind of items as

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Speaker 3: opposed to the controlling command of the pitch, because that's

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Speaker 3: not what's being emphasized. So listen, just the thought I

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Speaker 3: see it, the lack of really the ability to put

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Speaker 3: the ball where you want to. I was watching Walker

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Speaker 3: Bueller last night, my god, and I don't know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know if he's been hurt recently a while, but

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Speaker 3: that was awful. The command, control and command was awful.

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Speaker 3: And he did eventually hit Netto, who had started the

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Speaker 3: game with the home run. And you can make that

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Speaker 3: argument too that he did that on purpose. Okay, Netto's

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Speaker 3: he's the because of these situations with him, He's really

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Speaker 3: fueled the Angels as far as I'm concerned. I don't

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Speaker 3: know this guy, but I like him a lot, and

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Speaker 3: he took it a lot back. Angels come back, are

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Speaker 3: they they? Yeah? They eventually came back and won that game.

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Speaker 3: So there's this unmeasurables, these unmeasurables that I think are

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Speaker 3: important to any sporting event, and especially in our game

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Speaker 3: because you played every night and again you have to

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Speaker 3: demand your own turf. Nobody's gonna give it to you.

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Speaker 3: So so many different layers again to me, but at the

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Speaker 3: end of the day. Brother, I believe you protect your

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Speaker 3: guys and there's and I think that's how you co

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Speaker 3: exist for a year and have everybody's respect.

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Speaker 1: Great point on Netto, by the way, you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: He's not just a really good player. He is a

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Speaker 1: spark plug. He's a competitor. He's the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: you want on your team. There's no question about that.

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Speaker 1: I like watching him play same He's got an edge

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Speaker 1: to him in the right exactly the right kind of way. Now,

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Speaker 1: he did start a bench clearing incident with the Astros

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Speaker 1: when he got hit by a sinker from Hunter Brown,

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Speaker 1: and he pointed out, hey, that's the second time you've

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Speaker 1: hit me. Well, the last one was last year. I

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Speaker 1: hit two times in two years. By the way, those

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Speaker 1: pitches from Hunter Brown were only six inches off the

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Speaker 1: inside corner of the plate. We're talking the width of

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Speaker 1: two baseballs. But Netto's another guy likes to stand on

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Speaker 1: the chalk line of the box and his hands are

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Speaker 1: actually over the strike zone as he brings them around.

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Speaker 2: He's going to get hit a lot. That's the fact

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Speaker 2: of life for him.

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Speaker 1: But Joe, look around the game and you try to

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Speaker 1: find a number of guys who come to home plate

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Speaker 1: now without some kind of armor on their arms and elbows, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean Spencer Stryder was shocked when he hit Bryce

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Speaker 1: Harper that Bryce was not wearing an elbow guard. It's

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Speaker 1: just like de facto protection of the game today. And

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Speaker 1: to your point, Joe, about the hit by pitches, where

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Speaker 1: they're coming from. You know, I've dove into these numbers

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Speaker 1: and it really is.

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Speaker 2: You're right.

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Speaker 1: It's pitch shaping more than anything that is causing the

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Speaker 1: increase in hit by pitches. I'm talking about cutters to

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Speaker 1: off sided hitters and sinkers the same sided hitters. Guys

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Speaker 1: want to run the baseball in both directions now, on

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Speaker 1: both sides of the play, and they simply just don't

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Speaker 1: have command of it as well. And if you look

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Speaker 1: at the numbers, is by far the incidents the percentage

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Speaker 1: of those pitches cutters and sinkers is much higher in

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Speaker 1: terms of the hit by pitches than the overall rate.

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Speaker 1: It's the only type of pitch that does that, not

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Speaker 1: for seemers, not breaking pitches, not change ups. So the

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Speaker 1: shaping of pitches is causing this. And also you have

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Speaker 1: to talk about guys in the big leagues now, who

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Speaker 1: are there because we need a gazillion pitchers in the

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Speaker 1: game today with the injuries and the bullpen usage.

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Speaker 2: This is amazing to me, Joe.

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Speaker 1: We've just now getting to the halfway point of the

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Speaker 1: season in twenty twenty five. Major league teams have used

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Speaker 1: more pitchers to get through less than half of a

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Speaker 1: season this year than they did in every full season

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Speaker 1: until twenty fourteen. You know, we're not talking about a

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Speaker 1: sixteen team major leagues in nineteen twenty two. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about twenty fourteen teams used more pitchers this year half

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Speaker 1: of a season then to cover the entire twenty fourteen season.

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Speaker 1: So you're talking about literally hundreds more pitchers who are

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Speaker 1: in the big leagues now who otherwise would not have

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Speaker 1: been in the big leagues. You can't tell me they

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Speaker 1: all know how to command to baseball.

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Speaker 3: We what a progressive stance we've taken there with the

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Speaker 3: utilization of pictures, right, I mean, that's that is that

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Speaker 3: is throw up worthy right there. I was watching last night,

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Speaker 3: I was watching the Mets and the Braves, and you

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Speaker 3: see a Kuno when he comes up to the plate,

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Speaker 3: whatever that is on his left arm, it's unbelievable. I mean,

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Speaker 3: he could protect, you know, against the natural disaster. This

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Speaker 3: thing looks so huge, and it's yellow, and it's ostentatious,

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Speaker 3: and it's the whole thing, and it then is floating

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Speaker 3: around the bases after it's a home run. I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, we're just promoting the wrong things here, grown ups,

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Speaker 3: and the fact that we've acquiesced all this and you know,

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Speaker 3: the let the kids play and all this other crappy stuff.

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Speaker 3: I don't like it quite frankly, It's gotten way out

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Speaker 3: of hand. You when it first began, everybody was afraid

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Speaker 3: to speak out against it because and you'd be considered,

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Speaker 3: you know, old or out of touch, which totally disagree with.

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Speaker 3: It's it's inappropriate, horrible behavior. It's it's a narcissistic component

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Speaker 3: of the baseball game that I can't stand. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: progressive stance regarding guys getting hit and and all this

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Speaker 3: other stuff, the shaping of the pitches and just throwing

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Speaker 3: hard a kunya way too much wow, and then is

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Speaker 3: over the top celebration last point about the pitch shape whatever.

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Speaker 3: And I've I've always advocated for this, throw the ball

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Speaker 3: to the weak part of the bat, That's what I've

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Speaker 3: always when when you when you, uh, what's what's the

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Speaker 3: right pitch to throw in this situation if a pitcher

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Speaker 3: is able to we talked about to shape the pitch

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Speaker 3: and throw the pitch of the weak part of the back.

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Speaker 3: That becomes Marianna Rivera. My god, I mean, he was

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Speaker 3: like one of the first guys as I was coming up,

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Speaker 3: but nineties, mid nineties whatever. That really demonstrated to me

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Speaker 3: to really research the reverse split stuff because the rightings

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Speaker 3: being better against lefties and lefties who could get inside

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Speaker 3: on rightings, et cetera. So yes, throw the ball to

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Speaker 3: the weak part of the bats in on a righty,

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Speaker 3: cut her in on a on a lefty whatever. So

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Speaker 3: that's I agree with the weak part of the bat theory.

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Speaker 3: But then again, when you're just trying to spin it

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Speaker 3: so hard and just fire away and you really they

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Speaker 3: have no concern about hitting the guy, that's that's part

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Speaker 3: of it. There is no concern, And I think you know,

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Speaker 3: when you're able to command the ball better. Take Kyle

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Speaker 3: Hendrix and he's the he's doing okay this year. Kyle,

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Speaker 3: and this is just an extreme example, but is a

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Speaker 3: pitcher and he's wonderful to watch, and I saw him

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Speaker 3: against the Yankees recently shut him down. God, the pitch

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Speaker 3: shape and the movement and his changing of speeds and

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Speaker 3: just the the uh, the mental component of his game.

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Speaker 3: You could watch him the intellectual part of it fabulous

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Speaker 3: to watch, fabulous, as opposed to the more Theanderthal approach.

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Speaker 3: Neanderthal approach. So you could break this down so many

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Speaker 3: different ways. And this is part of what I don't like.

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Speaker 3: It's the excessive celebrating, even to the point now I

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Speaker 3: would I'm waiting for the team I guess the Yankees

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Speaker 3: do that doesn't run out with a hat for something

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Speaker 3: and put it on the player that hits a home

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Speaker 3: run and they come in and that that they can

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Speaker 3: never do it again. These are the kind of the

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Speaker 3: things that we're doing in today's game that I consider

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Speaker 3: very boring and a big turn off.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think you know this, Joe.

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Speaker 1: It's an old saying that the scoreboard will tell you

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Speaker 1: everything you need to know about how to play the

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Speaker 1: game right, And a lot of this is being done

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Speaker 1: ignorant of the scoreboards. In other words, you know, walk

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Speaker 1: off home run, game tying home run.

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Speaker 2: There's moments, sure, just let it fly.

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Speaker 1: But you know, down seven to nothing in the fifth inning,

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Speaker 1: come on, pick your spots.

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Speaker 3: That's a great play. I like that a lot, Tommy.

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Speaker 3: I love that. I should have I should have mentioned that,

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Speaker 3: and I'll keep that moving forward. That's great.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's stand the theme of justice, Joe, because I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure if you watched any of the College World Series,

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Speaker 1: but head coaches were making headlines for all the wrong

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Speaker 1: reasons in that tournament. And I'd love to dive into

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Speaker 1: that with you, and we'll do that next on the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe. Welcome back to the Book of Joke podcast.

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Speaker 1: Congratulations to the LSU Tigers. They are NCAA Baseball World

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Speaker 1: Series champions. But Joe, I wasn't following a lot of

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Speaker 1: these games, but it seemed like every time it caught

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Speaker 1: my attention, it was because a coach was doing something

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Speaker 1: that just quite frankly, rubbed me the wrong way.

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Speaker 2: And it started with the coach from Coastal.

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Speaker 1: Carolina actually calling out a competitor, Kevin O'Sullivan, the head

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Speaker 1: coach of Florida, at a press conference after one of

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Speaker 1: his games. The Coastal Carolina coach Snall said he disrespected

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Speaker 1: our field crew. Apparently there was a dust up in

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Speaker 1: some kind of an argument, and he accused O'Sullivan. He said,

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Speaker 1: this is a national champion coach who think he can

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Speaker 1: come in here and try to bully people around. I'm disappointed,

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Speaker 1: And actually a couple of days later, O'Sullivan did issue

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Speaker 1: an apology saying, hey, I let the emotions get the

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Speaker 1: best of me and a channel of that energy in

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Speaker 1: a way that I should not have, and I did

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Speaker 1: not represent the University of Florida to the appropriate standard

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Speaker 1: and take full responsibility for that.

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Speaker 2: So good on him. He owned up for it.

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Speaker 1: Clearly acted improperly, probably got in the faces of some

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Speaker 1: of these officials who run these regional tournaments, but he

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Speaker 1: did own it and apologize it.

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Speaker 2: Then you had Tim Corban, the longtime coach at Vanderbilt.

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Speaker 2: He loses the game.

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Speaker 1: I get it's tough to get in front of those

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Speaker 1: microphones after a tough loss, especially you've got this far

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Speaker 1: in the tournament. And he's asked the question by Arianna Gerson,

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Speaker 1: who covers Vanderbilt for the Tennesseean, and Gerson asks, you

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Speaker 1: know what happened to your offense? They struck out ten

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Speaker 1: times and left eight guys on base It was a

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Speaker 1: very very open ended question. And to me, he responds

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Speaker 1: so inappropriately, Joe just answered the question. Okay, there's no

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Speaker 1: agenda here about what went wrong when your team gets

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Speaker 1: shut down offensively, you're just looking for an answer.

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Speaker 2: It's an open ended question.

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Speaker 1: And he comes back and he says issue human, saying

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Speaker 1: implying that we're human. And Gerson says, well, it just

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Speaker 1: looks different than you know, the way your team has

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Speaker 1: played the last week or so.

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Speaker 2: And he says, you play baseball area. I mean, first

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Speaker 2: of all, you can't get them there.

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Speaker 1: Come on, she's not saying she's a baseball player's asking

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Speaker 1: a question. You play baseball area. I mean, it's tough

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Speaker 1: pitching on both sides. These are good pitchers on the mound.

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Speaker 1: These are battles. We just didn't win the battle. Don't

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Speaker 1: go searching like for a lot of ancillary bs what

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Speaker 1: he says in the press conference, Come on, you gotta

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Speaker 1: be better than that. That's embarrassing for your school. I mean,

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Speaker 1: especially as a college coach man. You got to set

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Speaker 1: an example. And then finally we get to championship Sunday.

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Speaker 1: It's a clinching situation for lsu Schnawl.

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Speaker 2: The coach Carolina Joe.

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Speaker 1: He gets thrown out of the game in the first inning,

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Speaker 1: first inning. It's only ten pitches into the game for

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Speaker 1: his team on offense. The umpire basically tells him to

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Speaker 1: stop yapping about ball strike calls. He comes out of

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Speaker 1: the dugout, the umpire tells him, knock it off, don't

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Speaker 1: come out any farther.

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Speaker 2: What does he do.

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Speaker 1: He holds up three fingers and he says, you've missed

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Speaker 1: three already. So the umpire runs him. And this is

432
00:21:31,998 --> 00:21:35,558
Speaker 1: a guy who claims after the game that his motto

433
00:21:35,678 --> 00:21:38,438
Speaker 1: with his group is own it, to take ownership of things.

434
00:21:38,678 --> 00:21:41,358
Speaker 1: He did everything button his press conference after the game.

435
00:21:41,558 --> 00:21:44,798
Speaker 1: Now do I like an umpire throwing a manager coach

436
00:21:44,838 --> 00:21:45,958
Speaker 1: out of the game in the first inning of a

437
00:21:45,998 --> 00:21:48,958
Speaker 1: championship game. Of course not. But the fact is he

438
00:21:49,078 --> 00:21:52,078
Speaker 1: was warned kept going. It's a ball and strike call.

439
00:21:52,278 --> 00:21:55,678
Speaker 1: Ten pitches into the game and you get run. Imagine

440
00:21:55,678 --> 00:21:57,518
Speaker 1: if it was one of his players who got thrown

441
00:21:57,558 --> 00:21:59,958
Speaker 1: out in the first inning of a championship game, you'd

442
00:21:59,958 --> 00:22:01,358
Speaker 1: say that's wholly inappropriate.

443
00:22:01,918 --> 00:22:03,518
Speaker 2: Set a better example.

444
00:22:03,918 --> 00:22:05,798
Speaker 1: You want to tell me that's an ump show the

445
00:22:05,838 --> 00:22:08,318
Speaker 1: guy's saying, hey, look at me as an umpire, go

446
00:22:08,358 --> 00:22:11,518
Speaker 1: ahead and knock yourself out. Don't put yourself in that position.

447
00:22:11,958 --> 00:22:14,118
Speaker 1: If you've been warned and it's a ball and strike

448
00:22:14,158 --> 00:22:17,358
Speaker 1: call in the first inning of a game, make your point,

449
00:22:17,598 --> 00:22:19,078
Speaker 1: stay in the dugout.

450
00:22:18,638 --> 00:22:19,478
Speaker 2: And leave it at that.

451
00:22:19,598 --> 00:22:21,918
Speaker 1: I got no sympathy for a guy getting run in

452
00:22:21,918 --> 00:22:23,798
Speaker 1: the first inning. And the shame of it, Joe is

453
00:22:24,278 --> 00:22:27,678
Speaker 1: he made that championship game about him getting thrown out.

454
00:22:27,758 --> 00:22:29,598
Speaker 1: That's what made the headlines, not that his team got

455
00:22:29,598 --> 00:22:31,758
Speaker 1: all the way to the championship game and lost to LSU.

456
00:22:32,518 --> 00:22:34,878
Speaker 3: Wow, there's a lot there, brother. First of all, the

457
00:22:34,918 --> 00:22:38,798
Speaker 3: coaching question here. Kevin Schnall, his daddy was my freshman

458
00:22:38,798 --> 00:22:40,878
Speaker 3: football coach at Lafia College. How about that?

459
00:22:41,198 --> 00:22:43,718
Speaker 2: Oh Mike, how about this? Do you talk about small world?

460
00:22:43,798 --> 00:22:45,558
Speaker 3: And I know Kevin, I know I've met him in

461
00:22:45,598 --> 00:22:48,518
Speaker 3: the past, so I really I didn't get to see

462
00:22:48,558 --> 00:22:51,558
Speaker 3: all that. I didn't follow all that. But you're right.

463
00:22:51,638 --> 00:22:53,278
Speaker 3: I mean, listen to you get thrown out in the

464
00:22:53,318 --> 00:22:56,398
Speaker 3: first inning of such a critical game. I've got thrown

465
00:22:56,398 --> 00:22:59,838
Speaker 3: out in the first pitch. With Anthony Rizzo hitting a

466
00:22:59,838 --> 00:23:02,918
Speaker 3: home run down the right field line in Pittsburgh where

467
00:23:03,118 --> 00:23:05,638
Speaker 3: they called it. It was so high and so far

468
00:23:06,198 --> 00:23:09,798
Speaker 3: you could even tell. So they called it fair, they cuddled,

469
00:23:09,998 --> 00:23:13,518
Speaker 3: and then they changed it to foul. And then now

470
00:23:13,638 --> 00:23:16,198
Speaker 3: I have to ask for a replay to then have

471
00:23:16,238 --> 00:23:18,518
Speaker 3: it be considered fair, which is never gonna happen. So

472
00:23:18,518 --> 00:23:20,798
Speaker 3: I told Jeff Kelly, I said, you realize how badly

473
00:23:20,838 --> 00:23:24,358
Speaker 3: you've screwed this up. The moment you guys got together

474
00:23:24,438 --> 00:23:27,278
Speaker 3: and considered it fair, that was the time for the replay,

475
00:23:27,398 --> 00:23:29,678
Speaker 3: not after you turned it to foul. And they put

476
00:23:29,678 --> 00:23:31,318
Speaker 3: the burden of proof on us. So I went on

477
00:23:31,358 --> 00:23:33,078
Speaker 3: the very first pitch of the game, drove all the

478
00:23:33,118 --> 00:23:37,078
Speaker 3: way from Hazelton to Pittsburgh, had my golf tournament, got there,

479
00:23:37,278 --> 00:23:39,518
Speaker 3: got suited up, went out there, thrown out the first

480
00:23:39,678 --> 00:23:41,238
Speaker 3: first pitch of the game. But that was I think

481
00:23:41,278 --> 00:23:43,918
Speaker 3: that was justified. But I didn't see what Kevin did there,

482
00:23:43,998 --> 00:23:48,038
Speaker 3: and you know that is it's really hard. God. I yes,

483
00:23:48,238 --> 00:23:50,598
Speaker 3: I can't defend him there, and I'll get a chance

484
00:23:50,598 --> 00:23:52,278
Speaker 3: to visit with him at some point down the road.

485
00:23:52,278 --> 00:23:55,798
Speaker 3: His daddy's passed away. Coach Steve Schnell, freshman football coach

486
00:23:55,798 --> 00:23:58,238
Speaker 3: at Lafia, loved him to death, had him come to

487
00:23:59,238 --> 00:24:01,398
Speaker 3: race camp one time and had him talk to the guys.

488
00:24:01,558 --> 00:24:03,398
Speaker 3: The guys couldn't get over it. He would They just

489
00:24:03,758 --> 00:24:06,078
Speaker 3: he was just one of those really high energy guys.

490
00:24:06,118 --> 00:24:08,838
Speaker 3: So yes, you can't. You can't leave the game that early,

491
00:24:08,918 --> 00:24:12,198
Speaker 3: not for that. Not for that. That's a little bit

492
00:24:12,278 --> 00:24:14,718
Speaker 3: over the top. And I absolutely agree with that. Now

493
00:24:14,758 --> 00:24:17,078
Speaker 3: when you're talking about that, I'm like, you know, from

494
00:24:17,118 --> 00:24:19,878
Speaker 3: Kevin's perspective, and he's talking about owning it. That was

495
00:24:19,918 --> 00:24:22,198
Speaker 3: one of the things I used to talk about, and

496
00:24:23,198 --> 00:24:25,638
Speaker 3: I don't know, you want it, you want to establish

497
00:24:25,678 --> 00:24:27,758
Speaker 3: your turf, but you can't. We just talked about that

498
00:24:27,838 --> 00:24:30,998
Speaker 3: regarding throwing at people. But in that situation, it's like

499
00:24:30,998 --> 00:24:33,078
Speaker 3: the seventh game of the World Series whatever. Getting thrown

500
00:24:33,078 --> 00:24:36,278
Speaker 3: out in the first thing just hard to understand. His

501
00:24:36,358 --> 00:24:39,478
Speaker 3: dad was really big on something. Z d z D

502
00:24:40,038 --> 00:24:43,078
Speaker 3: zero defects, zero defects. That's all Coach Snolliver said to

503
00:24:43,158 --> 00:24:46,278
Speaker 3: us when we prepping for a week's game. Anyway that

504
00:24:46,398 --> 00:24:49,118
Speaker 3: I'm going digressing there, but that was just wanted to

505
00:24:49,118 --> 00:24:50,998
Speaker 3: get that out of there. Coach Corbman, I mean, you'd

506
00:24:50,998 --> 00:24:54,078
Speaker 3: expect more from him in that regard, right, I mean,

507
00:24:54,958 --> 00:24:57,398
Speaker 3: the guy's very polished, and he's had such a wonderful

508
00:24:57,478 --> 00:25:01,758
Speaker 3: career and he's been there to really with David Price

509
00:25:01,838 --> 00:25:04,238
Speaker 3: or Sonny Gray and all the other guys in tween.

510
00:25:05,158 --> 00:25:07,198
Speaker 3: Maybe having a bad day, I just I just don't

511
00:25:07,238 --> 00:25:07,878
Speaker 3: get that.

512
00:25:07,878 --> 00:25:09,638
Speaker 1: That's what I chalk it up too as well, Joe.

513
00:25:09,798 --> 00:25:11,838
Speaker 1: Just a bad day, a bad moment. It's certainly out

514
00:25:11,838 --> 00:25:12,438
Speaker 1: of character.

515
00:25:12,198 --> 00:25:14,638
Speaker 3: And then you reserve your sarcasm for calmn this only

516
00:25:17,078 --> 00:25:19,038
Speaker 3: that's what I always thought. I mean, because you know,

517
00:25:19,318 --> 00:25:21,798
Speaker 3: when you're working a major league room all the time,

518
00:25:22,278 --> 00:25:24,238
Speaker 3: you got your regular beat guys, and I would never,

519
00:25:24,638 --> 00:25:28,358
Speaker 3: I don't think I can almost say never went rude

520
00:25:28,358 --> 00:25:31,118
Speaker 3: on them because they're there every day. They're they're just

521
00:25:31,158 --> 00:25:35,518
Speaker 3: like we are. We need each other. It's an entertainment world,

522
00:25:35,718 --> 00:25:39,158
Speaker 3: entertainment business, and these guys you had to be straight

523
00:25:39,238 --> 00:25:40,798
Speaker 3: up with them, and he would. You would go off

524
00:25:40,838 --> 00:25:42,878
Speaker 3: the record with these guys sometimes because they need a

525
00:25:42,918 --> 00:25:47,038
Speaker 3: background and you trusted them. And that's why I really

526
00:25:47,118 --> 00:25:51,198
Speaker 3: had a lot of respect and appreciation for the everyday dude,

527
00:25:51,318 --> 00:25:53,198
Speaker 3: and still due to this day of the columnists on

528
00:25:53,238 --> 00:25:55,838
Speaker 3: occasion would just show up and then he would go

529
00:25:55,878 --> 00:25:58,718
Speaker 3: off of a lot of hearsay, and you know he

530
00:25:58,718 --> 00:26:00,238
Speaker 3: would just try it. He's there, he's trying to create

531
00:26:00,278 --> 00:26:02,118
Speaker 3: a story. And again, it's part of the entertainment world.

532
00:26:02,278 --> 00:26:04,678
Speaker 3: But I always reserve my sarcasm for the calmness and

533
00:26:04,838 --> 00:26:06,038
Speaker 3: never for the beat. Guy.

534
00:26:07,278 --> 00:26:10,758
Speaker 1: I'm just blown away by the small connection there. That's fascinating.

535
00:26:10,918 --> 00:26:14,238
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I got to give you his his You

536
00:26:14,318 --> 00:26:18,358
Speaker 1: have to laugh too at the of course, his best

537
00:26:18,438 --> 00:26:20,878
Speaker 1: line after the game, but he tried to explain what

538
00:26:20,918 --> 00:26:24,558
Speaker 1: that happened. He said, I'm forty eight years old. I

539
00:26:24,638 --> 00:26:27,318
Speaker 1: shouldn't get shooed by another grown man.

540
00:26:28,678 --> 00:26:29,718
Speaker 2: Again when I come out.

541
00:26:30,198 --> 00:26:32,918
Speaker 1: When I come out to ask what the warning is,

542
00:26:34,078 --> 00:26:37,998
Speaker 1: a grown man showed me so at that point I

543
00:26:37,998 --> 00:26:40,638
Speaker 1: can now hear him say it was a warning issued

544
00:26:40,718 --> 00:26:44,598
Speaker 1: for not arguing balls and strikes. At that point, I said,

545
00:26:45,078 --> 00:26:46,558
Speaker 1: because you missed three.

546
00:26:47,678 --> 00:26:49,998
Speaker 3: That's his daddy. That was a daddy's influence right there.

547
00:26:49,998 --> 00:26:52,918
Speaker 3: That's all I could say is fist Pop was so animated.

548
00:26:52,998 --> 00:26:56,518
Speaker 3: Coach Snall loved the man so animated. It's kind of

549
00:26:56,558 --> 00:26:57,678
Speaker 3: rubbed off on Kevin a bit.

550
00:26:57,878 --> 00:26:59,318
Speaker 2: I hope you never shoot him.

551
00:26:59,758 --> 00:27:03,198
Speaker 3: I know, no, no, no, no, no, you didn't shoot

552
00:27:03,238 --> 00:27:05,758
Speaker 3: your coaches back in a day, man, I'd still be running.

553
00:27:05,878 --> 00:27:07,158
Speaker 2: But isn't it amazing Joe?

554
00:27:07,158 --> 00:27:10,958
Speaker 1: How sometimes the theater of an argument is worse than

555
00:27:10,998 --> 00:27:13,238
Speaker 1: the words. Like the fact that he put up three

556
00:27:13,318 --> 00:27:15,718
Speaker 1: fingers like that in front of a crowd and the

557
00:27:15,758 --> 00:27:16,798
Speaker 1: television cameras.

558
00:27:17,038 --> 00:27:19,678
Speaker 2: You know how much the umpires cannot stand that.

559
00:27:19,958 --> 00:27:23,318
Speaker 3: Another thing is when, for me, whenever an umpire would

560
00:27:23,318 --> 00:27:25,398
Speaker 3: point in me and say, don't come out here, my god,

561
00:27:25,478 --> 00:27:27,798
Speaker 3: I mean, whenever they you know they do that, would

562
00:27:27,878 --> 00:27:29,798
Speaker 3: you have to go out there? That was part of

563
00:27:29,798 --> 00:27:32,318
Speaker 3: the thing. And whenever they gave you the ultimatum, you

564
00:27:32,398 --> 00:27:35,078
Speaker 3: had to always challenge the ultimatum. I always did, and

565
00:27:35,118 --> 00:27:37,518
Speaker 3: that that would get me thrown out often. And yeah,

566
00:27:37,558 --> 00:27:40,398
Speaker 3: balls and strikes, you can't say anything. Back calls, you

567
00:27:40,438 --> 00:27:44,238
Speaker 3: cannot say anything. Chuck swings, You're not supposed to say anything,

568
00:27:44,278 --> 00:27:48,438
Speaker 3: you know that. And then then then eventually challenging a recall,

569
00:27:48,638 --> 00:27:51,918
Speaker 3: a replay that's been gone to New York and back,

570
00:27:51,958 --> 00:27:53,678
Speaker 3: and then you don't agree with it. The first time

571
00:27:54,158 --> 00:27:56,118
Speaker 3: that happened, I got thrown out because I thought the

572
00:27:56,158 --> 00:27:58,558
Speaker 3: call was still wrong, and then they had to throw

573
00:27:58,598 --> 00:28:01,078
Speaker 3: me out. I was at the first baseline somewhere. But man,

574
00:28:01,238 --> 00:28:03,118
Speaker 3: you when you get it, it's like real life. Right

575
00:28:03,118 --> 00:28:05,958
Speaker 3: when you get when you faced with people pointing fingers

576
00:28:05,958 --> 00:28:08,638
Speaker 3: and throwing ultimatums that you it's it's just a it's

577
00:28:08,638 --> 00:28:11,438
Speaker 3: a cause to fight back. You just get fires. You

578
00:28:11,518 --> 00:28:13,598
Speaker 3: up and you have no other choices, no other options.

579
00:28:13,638 --> 00:28:15,598
Speaker 3: You know what the result is going to be, but

580
00:28:15,598 --> 00:28:16,558
Speaker 3: you got to do it anyway.

581
00:28:16,998 --> 00:28:21,398
Speaker 1: You just reminded me that the most ridiculous arguments are

582
00:28:21,478 --> 00:28:24,038
Speaker 1: the ones where a call gets overturned or a replay

583
00:28:24,118 --> 00:28:24,998
Speaker 1: doesn't go your way.

584
00:28:25,118 --> 00:28:26,838
Speaker 3: Right right, Yeah, the.

585
00:28:26,918 --> 00:28:29,198
Speaker 1: Call is made thousands of miles away in New York

586
00:28:29,238 --> 00:28:31,678
Speaker 1: by a completely different set of umpires. But just to

587
00:28:31,878 --> 00:28:35,238
Speaker 1: vent you can't take it out on technology, so you

588
00:28:35,318 --> 00:28:36,958
Speaker 1: take it out on the poor guys who are actually

589
00:28:37,198 --> 00:28:38,318
Speaker 1: just administrating the game.

590
00:28:38,398 --> 00:28:40,238
Speaker 3: And the empire would put listen, I didn't I didn't

591
00:28:40,278 --> 00:28:42,718
Speaker 3: change it. You know, you got to get out of Joe.

592
00:28:42,758 --> 00:28:45,118
Speaker 3: You can't, I can't. You can't argue this God, he

593
00:28:45,278 --> 00:28:48,038
Speaker 3: was wrong, and then you get thrown out anyway. It's

594
00:28:48,038 --> 00:28:52,198
Speaker 3: such an emotional moment, and especially when things are going well,

595
00:28:52,278 --> 00:28:56,118
Speaker 3: my god, then it then it becomes multiplied so quickly.

596
00:28:56,278 --> 00:28:58,718
Speaker 1: I love your point about when the Empire says, don't

597
00:28:58,758 --> 00:29:04,518
Speaker 1: come out here. That's a that's a red cape to charging, right.

598
00:29:04,638 --> 00:29:07,558
Speaker 1: I mean, did your dad ever ground you and say, Joe,

599
00:29:07,598 --> 00:29:09,278
Speaker 1: you grout and you can't go out tonight?

600
00:29:09,518 --> 00:29:11,518
Speaker 3: Of course, I mean Beanie, Beanie was a tough one.

601
00:29:11,558 --> 00:29:14,958
Speaker 3: My mom would be like that. But yeah, it's think

602
00:29:14,998 --> 00:29:17,878
Speaker 3: about it though, when somebody you know, points a finger

603
00:29:18,078 --> 00:29:20,678
Speaker 3: like at you and tells you you can't do something,

604
00:29:20,998 --> 00:29:23,078
Speaker 3: and going back to Kevin's points and all about being

605
00:29:23,078 --> 00:29:26,078
Speaker 3: a grown up, grown man, it just doesn't work. It

606
00:29:26,278 --> 00:29:27,198
Speaker 3: just doesn't work.

607
00:29:27,398 --> 00:29:28,758
Speaker 2: Oh, I love that line.

608
00:29:28,918 --> 00:29:32,278
Speaker 1: I shouldn't get showed by an another grown man.

609
00:29:32,478 --> 00:29:34,398
Speaker 3: That's a that's a T shirt for next year. If

610
00:29:34,398 --> 00:29:36,318
Speaker 3: I'm coastal, I'm selling that on campus.

611
00:29:36,878 --> 00:29:38,238
Speaker 2: Hey, Joe, I want to talk to you.

612
00:29:38,398 --> 00:29:39,998
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break here of the Book

613
00:29:39,998 --> 00:29:42,118
Speaker 1: of Joe and Robin bring up the Reds are bringing

614
00:29:42,198 --> 00:29:45,478
Speaker 1: up a pitcher number two draft pick last year who's

615
00:29:45,518 --> 00:29:48,678
Speaker 1: thrown only sixty six minor leagues inning, started this year

616
00:29:49,118 --> 00:29:51,398
Speaker 1: in a ball and now he's pitching in the big.

617
00:29:51,358 --> 00:29:52,518
Speaker 2: Leagues against the Yankees.

618
00:29:52,998 --> 00:29:55,358
Speaker 1: We want to talk about pitching development, and we'll do

619
00:29:55,438 --> 00:30:09,078
Speaker 1: that right after this on the Book of Joe. Welcome

620
00:30:09,078 --> 00:30:11,718
Speaker 1: back to the Book of Joe. This is fascinating to me, Joe.

621
00:30:11,798 --> 00:30:15,278
Speaker 1: Chase Burns, with the number two pick in the draft

622
00:30:15,438 --> 00:30:18,758
Speaker 1: last year, did not pitch professionally as they do with

623
00:30:18,798 --> 00:30:20,958
Speaker 1: a lot of college pitchers. He pitched at wake Forest,

624
00:30:21,238 --> 00:30:25,878
Speaker 1: actually Tennessee before that. So he started his professional career

625
00:30:25,958 --> 00:30:30,078
Speaker 1: competitively this year in Class A ball, pitching in front

626
00:30:30,118 --> 00:30:33,798
Speaker 1: of four thousand people back in Michigan in April. And

627
00:30:33,838 --> 00:30:36,958
Speaker 1: here he is now in the big leagues now, sixty

628
00:30:36,958 --> 00:30:41,598
Speaker 1: six innings, he dominated eighty nine strikeouts, only thirteen walks,

629
00:30:41,718 --> 00:30:45,518
Speaker 1: and just thirty eight hits. So he's just completely owned

630
00:30:45,558 --> 00:30:49,118
Speaker 1: the minor leagues. He's twenty two years old. I get it, Joe.

631
00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:51,838
Speaker 1: I mean I get it that now when you talk

632
00:30:51,838 --> 00:30:54,998
Speaker 1: about kids coming up through the college ranks, especially where

633
00:30:55,038 --> 00:30:57,758
Speaker 1: they have access to the same kind of technology as

634
00:30:57,758 --> 00:31:00,198
Speaker 1: the major leaguers do, and there's a lot of good

635
00:31:00,278 --> 00:31:03,478
Speaker 1: coaching that's being done on the college level, I think

636
00:31:03,558 --> 00:31:05,918
Speaker 1: that the staircase to the big leagues is a lot

637
00:31:05,998 --> 00:31:08,718
Speaker 1: steeper and shorter than it used to be. You know,

638
00:31:08,918 --> 00:31:10,318
Speaker 1: it used to be what you have to throw about

639
00:31:10,318 --> 00:31:12,118
Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty innings to get to the big

640
00:31:12,198 --> 00:31:16,518
Speaker 1: leagues before you were properly finished off. This guy throws

641
00:31:17,238 --> 00:31:20,238
Speaker 1: he averages ninety seven point eight on his fastball. He

642
00:31:20,318 --> 00:31:22,518
Speaker 1: certainly has not been challenged much in the minor leagues,

643
00:31:23,118 --> 00:31:24,958
Speaker 1: So get into the big leagues. I'm sure he's gonna

644
00:31:24,958 --> 00:31:27,078
Speaker 1: have a ton of governors on him and how many

645
00:31:27,158 --> 00:31:28,958
Speaker 1: pitches that he can throw, how many innings he will

646
00:31:28,998 --> 00:31:31,198
Speaker 1: throw this year, and all those things. But I've seen

647
00:31:31,238 --> 00:31:34,438
Speaker 1: things change, Joe that I wouldn't say this is a

648
00:31:34,478 --> 00:31:36,798
Speaker 1: guy getting rushed to the big leagues because the big

649
00:31:36,918 --> 00:31:40,638
Speaker 1: league environment now can handle these these high velocity young pitchers.

650
00:31:40,678 --> 00:31:42,598
Speaker 3: What do you think, Well, I think it's you know,

651
00:31:42,638 --> 00:31:46,238
Speaker 3: the successive schemes really helps the situation a lot. The

652
00:31:46,278 --> 00:31:47,798
Speaker 3: fact that he came up here and did what he did.

653
00:31:47,838 --> 00:31:49,478
Speaker 3: And I'm sure there's a lot of comps going on

654
00:31:49,558 --> 00:31:54,358
Speaker 3: there teams like this. I guess normally, you know, sending

655
00:31:54,398 --> 00:31:57,318
Speaker 3: teams teams that are trying to become something. Maybe more

656
00:31:57,438 --> 00:31:59,438
Speaker 3: established teams with more money could go out and just

657
00:32:00,158 --> 00:32:02,198
Speaker 3: get the more established guy and permit these guys to

658
00:32:02,318 --> 00:32:04,478
Speaker 3: incubate a little bit. But first of all, I think

659
00:32:04,478 --> 00:32:08,158
Speaker 3: it's partly because of the scheme's success. Ab I also,

660
00:32:09,358 --> 00:32:12,598
Speaker 3: I do believe this. It's a very subtle movement. It's

661
00:32:12,598 --> 00:32:14,758
Speaker 3: a very subtle movement to really diminish the minor leagues

662
00:32:14,798 --> 00:32:17,758
Speaker 3: even more and rely more on colleges, almost like the

663
00:32:17,958 --> 00:32:21,038
Speaker 3: NBA model or the NFL model, to have guys come

664
00:32:21,038 --> 00:32:23,238
Speaker 3: from college and write to the big leagues with very

665
00:32:23,238 --> 00:32:25,838
Speaker 3: limited or no a minor league experience. It's another way

666
00:32:25,838 --> 00:32:29,518
Speaker 3: to defray costs. I just really believe that these did

667
00:32:29,598 --> 00:32:32,878
Speaker 3: the way scouting and development is done today purely almost

668
00:32:33,518 --> 00:32:35,638
Speaker 3: I shouldn't say almost exclusively, but a lot of it's

669
00:32:35,678 --> 00:32:40,078
Speaker 3: done through data analytics and videos, things kind of that nature.

670
00:32:40,598 --> 00:32:45,198
Speaker 3: I think if pro ball the way it's being the

671
00:32:45,238 --> 00:32:47,678
Speaker 3: direction of it right now, if they could turn development

672
00:32:47,718 --> 00:32:50,158
Speaker 3: over to colleges, they'd love that. They would love that.

673
00:32:50,238 --> 00:32:52,598
Speaker 3: And I think that again there's left to be some

674
00:32:52,718 --> 00:32:55,758
Speaker 3: kind of a skeleton minor league situation, but it won't

675
00:32:55,798 --> 00:32:58,398
Speaker 3: be so much based on development. You just more or

676
00:32:58,478 --> 00:33:02,198
Speaker 3: less be based on a place to play, because the

677
00:33:02,518 --> 00:33:05,398
Speaker 3: coaching itself being done would be done or generated more

678
00:33:05,438 --> 00:33:08,398
Speaker 3: off of an iPad as opposed to eyeballs and experience.

679
00:33:08,438 --> 00:33:12,558
Speaker 3: So that's the one thing I've been noticing it's a

680
00:33:12,758 --> 00:33:16,678
Speaker 3: continuation of the deterioration of the minor leagues. It's the

681
00:33:17,358 --> 00:33:20,998
Speaker 3: thought of elevating college ball and have the more there's

682
00:33:21,038 --> 00:33:24,998
Speaker 3: successes like this coming out of college ball immediately, like

683
00:33:24,998 --> 00:33:27,198
Speaker 3: the schemes, the more the other people are going to

684
00:33:27,238 --> 00:33:29,758
Speaker 3: want to do as copycat industry. They're good. Why why

685
00:33:29,758 --> 00:33:31,358
Speaker 3: can't we do that? Why can't we just raft and

686
00:33:31,398 --> 00:33:34,158
Speaker 3: bring the guys right up limited time into minor leagues

687
00:33:34,358 --> 00:33:36,398
Speaker 3: if we want to utilize them anyway, We've already used

688
00:33:36,518 --> 00:33:39,038
Speaker 3: what more pictures already this year than you do in

689
00:33:39,038 --> 00:33:41,838
Speaker 3: a normal season, So that's going to happen regardless based

690
00:33:41,838 --> 00:33:44,798
Speaker 3: on how we do things. And you've already mentioned the

691
00:33:44,838 --> 00:33:47,318
Speaker 3: governor that in and of itself lends to the utilization

692
00:33:47,358 --> 00:33:49,038
Speaker 3: of more pictures during the course of a season. So

693
00:33:49,278 --> 00:33:50,838
Speaker 3: there's a lot going on in there. But I think

694
00:33:50,878 --> 00:33:54,838
Speaker 3: the primary mover is the unseen, un talking about movement

695
00:33:55,438 --> 00:33:59,238
Speaker 3: of eliminating more minor leagues and really even to the

696
00:33:59,278 --> 00:34:01,718
Speaker 3: point that you may eventually farm out some of your

697
00:34:01,718 --> 00:34:03,558
Speaker 3: guys to a good college program. And I think I've

698
00:34:03,558 --> 00:34:05,878
Speaker 3: read about and I thought it's right on the money

699
00:34:06,118 --> 00:34:09,678
Speaker 3: to have your guy developed collegiately as opposed to in

700
00:34:09,718 --> 00:34:11,958
Speaker 3: a minor lag system that we don't want to support.

701
00:34:12,038 --> 00:34:13,798
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think there's a lot of trust now

702
00:34:13,838 --> 00:34:16,558
Speaker 1: more than there used to be in major league organizations.

703
00:34:16,598 --> 00:34:20,518
Speaker 1: Looking at college programs with the way they handle young pitchers,

704
00:34:20,998 --> 00:34:22,638
Speaker 1: I don't think they run him into the ground.

705
00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:24,798
Speaker 2: As much as they used to. And let's face it,

706
00:34:24,838 --> 00:34:25,718
Speaker 2: there's a lot.

707
00:34:25,518 --> 00:34:27,878
Speaker 1: Of pitching coaches, not just on the big league level,

708
00:34:27,878 --> 00:34:31,598
Speaker 1: but throughout major league organizations up and down the ladder

709
00:34:31,958 --> 00:34:34,838
Speaker 1: who come out of college. They're identified as getting the

710
00:34:34,878 --> 00:34:37,598
Speaker 1: job done in college. They call these major colleges have

711
00:34:37,718 --> 00:34:39,918
Speaker 1: all the technologies that the major league teams have.

712
00:34:40,678 --> 00:34:43,078
Speaker 2: It's not that different. It used to be. I thought

713
00:34:43,118 --> 00:34:44,318
Speaker 2: a bigger jump joe.

714
00:34:44,158 --> 00:34:47,278
Speaker 1: Between college, major college and the major leagues. It's it's

715
00:34:47,358 --> 00:34:50,158
Speaker 1: really not that big now in terms of what they're teaching.

716
00:34:50,318 --> 00:34:52,118
Speaker 2: So Chase Burns is going to get the ball.

717
00:34:52,278 --> 00:34:55,598
Speaker 1: He's the youngest pitcher to start against the Yankees, making

718
00:34:55,638 --> 00:34:59,318
Speaker 1: his major league debut since Ian Anderson of the Braves

719
00:34:59,358 --> 00:35:00,398
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty.

720
00:35:00,438 --> 00:35:01,998
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember Ian Anderson.

721
00:35:02,198 --> 00:35:06,078
Speaker 1: I do I do straight over the top, right really

722
00:35:06,158 --> 00:35:08,998
Speaker 1: over the top reminded me a lot of Michael Waka

723
00:35:09,158 --> 00:35:12,438
Speaker 1: straight over the top. Chase Burns is actually the same

724
00:35:12,518 --> 00:35:14,398
Speaker 1: kind of picture Joe. He will get to the big

725
00:35:14,478 --> 00:35:18,398
Speaker 1: leagues and again he throws averages in the minor leagues

726
00:35:18,438 --> 00:35:19,998
Speaker 1: ninety seven point eight on his heater.

727
00:35:20,438 --> 00:35:21,438
Speaker 2: And I looked at.

728
00:35:21,358 --> 00:35:24,678
Speaker 1: This among major league pitchers who average at least ninety

729
00:35:24,678 --> 00:35:27,798
Speaker 1: five on their fastball, he will have the highest release

730
00:35:27,878 --> 00:35:30,838
Speaker 1: point of anybody. Closest to is Hayden Birds Song of

731
00:35:30,878 --> 00:35:33,558
Speaker 1: the Giants, another young pitcher about six and a half

732
00:35:33,638 --> 00:35:35,598
Speaker 1: feet off the ground. He's a little more. He's six'

733
00:35:35,678 --> 00:35:39,198
Speaker 1: six off the ground Is Chase. Burns so to me

734
00:35:39,358 --> 00:35:41,638
Speaker 1: his comp WHEN i looked at the Numbers joe on

735
00:35:41,718 --> 00:35:45,278
Speaker 1: his fastball, metrics his release, point, velocity spin, rate which

736
00:35:45,318 --> 00:35:48,638
Speaker 1: is off the charts high is going back to prime Justin,

737
00:35:48,718 --> 00:35:51,958
Speaker 1: verlander and you just don't see guys with that high

738
00:35:52,078 --> 00:35:55,358
Speaker 1: release point at HIGH v, low especially these days the

739
00:35:55,398 --> 00:35:58,638
Speaker 1: Way Chase burns has. Now WHEN i looked At, Verlander

740
00:35:58,758 --> 00:36:03,598
Speaker 1: verlander's mechanics were. Smoother burns actually has a higher arm,

741
00:36:03,998 --> 00:36:06,718
Speaker 1: angle if that makes sense to. You he has to

742
00:36:06,798 --> 00:36:08,638
Speaker 1: dive the head out of the way to the left

743
00:36:08,678 --> 00:36:11,798
Speaker 1: to get straight over at almost twelve thirty on the, Clock,

744
00:36:12,718 --> 00:36:16,558
Speaker 1: uh to get that arm. Higher even Though verlander's, uh

745
00:36:16,718 --> 00:36:20,078
Speaker 1: the release point was exactly the same. Height verlander's arm

746
00:36:20,198 --> 00:36:23,358
Speaker 1: angle was not as high As Chase. Burns that's just

747
00:36:23,398 --> 00:36:24,198
Speaker 1: something to keep on.

748
00:36:24,318 --> 00:36:24,518
Speaker 2: IN i.

749
00:36:24,678 --> 00:36:27,198
Speaker 1: ON i know, that, uh there is a little more

750
00:36:27,238 --> 00:36:29,238
Speaker 1: stress on the shoulder when you get that. High AND

751
00:36:29,278 --> 00:36:31,718
Speaker 1: i think the trend now has been towards lower arm.

752
00:36:31,798 --> 00:36:34,798
Speaker 1: Slots BUT i think this kid's got a chance to

753
00:36:34,878 --> 00:36:39,398
Speaker 1: dominate because he's got dominating stuff from a very different release.

754
00:36:39,438 --> 00:36:42,238
Speaker 1: POINT i think it's going to be a tough study

755
00:36:42,238 --> 00:36:44,118
Speaker 1: for major league hitters to pick up the ball on this.

756
00:36:44,198 --> 00:36:45,638
Speaker 3: Kid how tall is? He six?

757
00:36:45,758 --> 00:36:48,158
Speaker 1: Six did you say that's Release he's sixty. Three, okay

758
00:36:48,158 --> 00:36:49,518
Speaker 1: that's his release. Point he's sixty.

759
00:36:49,558 --> 00:36:51,438
Speaker 3: Three, well when you're as you're talking about, that you

760
00:36:51,518 --> 00:36:53,958
Speaker 3: made me think about two. Guys that one THAT i

761
00:36:53,958 --> 00:36:56,798
Speaker 3: had WHEN i always, ADMIRED i Had Jeff. NEMAN i

762
00:36:56,918 --> 00:36:59,718
Speaker 3: Remember Jeff. Neman he was six', nine tall. Tall, guy

763
00:36:59,798 --> 00:37:02,478
Speaker 3: yeah it didn't see so like high eighties or, low nineties,

764
00:37:02,478 --> 00:37:04,758
Speaker 3: but man when he, was well he used to get

765
00:37:04,838 --> 00:37:07,558
Speaker 3: quick outs and he get like through he get through

766
00:37:07,798 --> 00:37:11,918
Speaker 3: innings like nobody Else because i've always thought that angle.

767
00:37:11,958 --> 00:37:14,518
Speaker 3: Equals movement so if you're able to, be that if

768
00:37:14,518 --> 00:37:16,518
Speaker 3: you're that tall and you could throw the ball with

769
00:37:16,558 --> 00:37:19,878
Speaker 3: that kind of an angle, or elevate just keep the

770
00:37:19,918 --> 00:37:23,198
Speaker 3: ball on that. Elevated plane what an advantage. That is

771
00:37:23,238 --> 00:37:25,238
Speaker 3: and then of course all the breaking balls if you're

772
00:37:25,238 --> 00:37:28,318
Speaker 3: throwing from. That angle just think. About it especially well in,

773
00:37:28,358 --> 00:37:30,158
Speaker 3: today's game may be a little bit better if they're

774
00:37:30,158 --> 00:37:32,038
Speaker 3: throwing the ball down because everybody's trying to lift. The

775
00:37:32,078 --> 00:37:34,278
Speaker 3: ball but when the ball was more of a flat

776
00:37:34,318 --> 00:37:36,918
Speaker 3: swing that, down angle the intersection of the ball and

777
00:37:36,958 --> 00:37:38,838
Speaker 3: the bat to me was like really had to be

778
00:37:38,918 --> 00:37:41,198
Speaker 3: precise in order to square, it up because if you

779
00:37:41,238 --> 00:37:43,398
Speaker 3: look from, the side it, was, like weird the ball

780
00:37:43,478 --> 00:37:45,678
Speaker 3: was coming from such a high spot down to this

781
00:37:45,838 --> 00:37:48,038
Speaker 3: bat and the guys were trying to be more flat.

782
00:37:48,038 --> 00:37:50,518
Speaker 3: With it so maybe the answer is more of an

783
00:37:50,598 --> 00:37:52,678
Speaker 3: uplifting kind of. A swinger the Other One's. Chris young.

784
00:37:52,718 --> 00:37:55,718
Speaker 3: See why the guy WITH the gm With the rangers,

785
00:37:55,758 --> 00:37:58,238
Speaker 3: right now see why didn't throw, Hard EITHER but i.

786
00:37:58,278 --> 00:38:00,238
Speaker 3: Loved him but he threw a lot at the top of.

787
00:38:00,278 --> 00:38:03,198
Speaker 3: The zone he was probably about the same Height as,

788
00:38:03,998 --> 00:38:06,758
Speaker 3: jeff WAS and. I got i Love. JEFF neeman i,

789
00:38:06,798 --> 00:38:10,438
Speaker 3: see why same, thing tall but his balls for me

790
00:38:10,518 --> 00:38:12,998
Speaker 3: stayed on, a plane elevated more than he wanted to.

791
00:38:12,998 --> 00:38:15,438
Speaker 3: Pitch DOWN where i Loved when jeffrey did pitch down

792
00:38:15,478 --> 00:38:18,998
Speaker 3: because they couldn't square. Him Up so i've always liked over.

793
00:38:19,078 --> 00:38:22,478
Speaker 3: The top over the top could be. Really beneficial it

794
00:38:22,958 --> 00:38:25,038
Speaker 3: is at such a different angle for the hitter, to

795
00:38:25,078 --> 00:38:29,478
Speaker 3: see and down angle. EQUALS movement, i say try to

796
00:38:29,478 --> 00:38:32,158
Speaker 3: convince them that if they've thrown the, BALL downhill i

797
00:38:32,198 --> 00:38:35,078
Speaker 3: mean from like a high, slot down just think, about

798
00:38:35,118 --> 00:38:37,478
Speaker 3: it it's really hard to square it up because of the.

799
00:38:37,518 --> 00:38:40,318
Speaker 3: Angles involved and so those are the kind OF guys i.

800
00:38:40,398 --> 00:38:42,198
Speaker 3: Always liked he didn't see a whole lot, of them

801
00:38:42,598 --> 00:38:44,478
Speaker 3: especially you didn't see aho lot of pictures That Tall

802
00:38:44,558 --> 00:38:46,278
Speaker 3: finn finn was kind of over. The top and the

803
00:38:46,358 --> 00:38:49,358
Speaker 3: Thing About finn finn had a great not, a splitter

804
00:38:49,398 --> 00:38:50,918
Speaker 3: he had a great fork ball to go off of.

805
00:38:50,958 --> 00:38:53,558
Speaker 3: That Too so i've been around some really tall pitchers

806
00:38:53,558 --> 00:38:56,518
Speaker 3: and very tall, successful pitchers And so i'm curious to

807
00:38:56,518 --> 00:38:58,638
Speaker 3: see this guy six, y' three maybe not, as tall

808
00:38:59,118 --> 00:39:01,718
Speaker 3: but with the the head, pulling off with the head

809
00:39:01,798 --> 00:39:03,558
Speaker 3: and all jerking to. The left i'm just curious to

810
00:39:03,558 --> 00:39:07,598
Speaker 3: see how that. Plays Out but i've seen some successful guys.

811
00:39:07,638 --> 00:39:10,038
Speaker 1: Like, That, well joe you're right that, you know that

812
00:39:10,118 --> 00:39:12,958
Speaker 1: downhill type of pitcher has been disappearing in the game

813
00:39:13,078 --> 00:39:15,278
Speaker 1: because the emphasis on hitting is to get the ball

814
00:39:15,278 --> 00:39:16,558
Speaker 1: in the air and the swing has.

815
00:39:16,398 --> 00:39:16,918
Speaker 2: Become a little.

816
00:39:16,958 --> 00:39:20,678
Speaker 1: More uphill and that's actually fitting that downhill pitch better

817
00:39:20,798 --> 00:39:24,798
Speaker 1: than it. Used to so You mentioned skeen's. PERFECT example,

818
00:39:25,038 --> 00:39:27,398
Speaker 1: i mean that's a, six' five six to six guy

819
00:39:27,398 --> 00:39:30,718
Speaker 1: who's got a very. Low arm slot the major league

820
00:39:30,758 --> 00:39:34,198
Speaker 1: average arm slot release point has gotten lower and lower

821
00:39:34,238 --> 00:39:37,758
Speaker 1: over the last few years because that pitch plays at

822
00:39:37,798 --> 00:39:40,158
Speaker 1: the top. Of the zone, the uphill shooter, if you

823
00:39:40,198 --> 00:39:43,638
Speaker 1: will more than that plane downhill into. The swing path

824
00:39:44,198 --> 00:39:46,798
Speaker 1: so we'll keep an. Eye on, THAT and again i

825
00:39:46,918 --> 00:39:49,318
Speaker 1: just think his stuff is so. Good right now that's

826
00:39:49,318 --> 00:39:51,638
Speaker 1: going to play for a while until major league hitters

827
00:39:51,678 --> 00:39:54,638
Speaker 1: see this. Guy make adjustments it's a very it's a

828
00:39:54,678 --> 00:39:58,078
Speaker 1: premium it's premiere stuff from. An unusual ANGLE that's what i.

829
00:39:58,238 --> 00:40:00,158
Speaker 1: Like about, It, and also joe if you look around

830
00:40:00,238 --> 00:40:04,398
Speaker 1: the game, first year, players to me pitchers are hitting the.

831
00:40:04,438 --> 00:40:07,718
Speaker 1: Ground running Man The kid jacob Misrawski Of. The brewers

832
00:40:07,718 --> 00:40:11,238
Speaker 1: man he's just. Fun to watch. He's dominating People You've,

833
00:40:11,278 --> 00:40:15,878
Speaker 1: Got Braden, Fisher Logan, Henderson Noah, Cameron Shane, Smith Jack,

834
00:40:15,958 --> 00:40:19,198
Speaker 1: Dryer Mick. Abel chad patrick these are all first year

835
00:40:19,318 --> 00:40:24,518
Speaker 1: pitchers who are. Doing SPLENDIDLY well and i think you

836
00:40:24,558 --> 00:40:27,518
Speaker 1: look at, The, offensive side joe and that jump is

837
00:40:27,678 --> 00:40:30,718
Speaker 1: really harder than it is. For the, pitchers you know

838
00:40:31,558 --> 00:40:34,718
Speaker 1: the word On Guys like Roman anthony And, jack kech

839
00:40:34,798 --> 00:40:40,358
Speaker 1: leane the. Big time prospects we Saw that with. HOLIDAY last,

840
00:40:40,438 --> 00:40:44,478
Speaker 1: year i mean there have been sixteen first year. Hitters

841
00:40:44,518 --> 00:40:47,478
Speaker 1: this year you've had at least one, hundred plate appearances

842
00:40:47,878 --> 00:40:50,518
Speaker 1: and eleven of the sixteen you have a BELOW. Average

843
00:40:50,838 --> 00:40:54,318
Speaker 1: adjusted ops so the universe of pitchers who hit the.

844
00:40:54,278 --> 00:40:57,598
Speaker 2: Ground running now is much deeper than it is.

845
00:40:57,798 --> 00:41:00,838
Speaker 4: First, YEAR hitters, yeah i mean if you can just

846
00:41:00,878 --> 00:41:03,318
Speaker 4: want to go purely from, An analytical perspective i've always

847
00:41:03,318 --> 00:41:06,998
Speaker 4: felt that analytics benefits defense, and pitching primarily and the

848
00:41:07,078 --> 00:41:08,438
Speaker 4: hitters really get very little.

849
00:41:08,478 --> 00:41:11,518
Speaker 3: Out, of this uh it's just. THEY just, don't i

850
00:41:11,518 --> 00:41:14,598
Speaker 3: mean they're they're, hitters are reactive. Pitchers are proactive, defense

851
00:41:14,678 --> 00:41:17,158
Speaker 3: is proactive and so the, hitters up there and then

852
00:41:17,358 --> 00:41:20,598
Speaker 3: you just suggested all these young guys coming up. The

853
00:41:20,598 --> 00:41:23,918
Speaker 3: they're this the success they've had to this point is primarily, based,

854
00:41:23,958 --> 00:41:27,718
Speaker 3: on velocity spin. Shape of pitches probably they're they're their.

855
00:41:27,758 --> 00:41:30,638
Speaker 3: Slider or whatever when you're, throwing that, hard, that young

856
00:41:31,878 --> 00:41:33,758
Speaker 3: yeah you have a chance to. Make an impact now

857
00:41:33,758 --> 00:41:36,798
Speaker 3: that the next, one is longevity because we have had

858
00:41:36,838 --> 00:41:39,838
Speaker 3: so many blowouts based on just trying to throw that

859
00:41:39,878 --> 00:41:42,798
Speaker 3: hard and actually. Throwing THAT hard, so, i think, uh

860
00:41:42,998 --> 00:41:45,598
Speaker 3: you know the the the immediate success has to be.

861
00:41:45,638 --> 00:41:49,718
Speaker 3: Tempered a bit and, Because after all i've, always you

862
00:41:49,758 --> 00:41:51,558
Speaker 3: know as a as a scout and as a, PLAYER

863
00:41:51,638 --> 00:41:53,278
Speaker 3: development guy i wasn't just there to try to make

864
00:41:53,318 --> 00:41:55,358
Speaker 3: a guy or hopefully be there for a, year or

865
00:41:55,358 --> 00:41:57,878
Speaker 3: two maybe three. At the most you always you always

866
00:41:57,918 --> 00:42:01,838
Speaker 3: were taking long term with. All these guys and and,

867
00:42:01,878 --> 00:42:04,838
Speaker 3: AS a manager i was always thinking about not. Hurting

868
00:42:04,878 --> 00:42:07,718
Speaker 3: a picture that was my especially relief pictures in regard

869
00:42:07,798 --> 00:42:11,118
Speaker 3: to their usage to. Not. Hurt, ANYBODY man now I

870
00:42:11,118 --> 00:42:13,238
Speaker 3: REMEMBER When i jp, howe GOT hurt AND I. Love

871
00:42:13,358 --> 00:42:15,838
Speaker 3: jp howe, he got hurt he had Been. Hurt in

872
00:42:15,918 --> 00:42:18,478
Speaker 3: texas didn't, throw that hard but he had to talk

873
00:42:18,518 --> 00:42:21,558
Speaker 3: about another over the top guy and then he got

874
00:42:21,638 --> 00:42:24,398
Speaker 3: he got injured when you're coming out, of the BULLPEN

875
00:42:24,438 --> 00:42:27,438
Speaker 3: and man i, TOOK that. PERSONALLY i did i don't

876
00:42:27,438 --> 00:42:31,038
Speaker 3: think that's really thought about in those, that method anymore

877
00:42:31,038 --> 00:42:34,958
Speaker 3: because analytics analytics technology. Has, no soul really it's just

878
00:42:34,998 --> 00:42:39,998
Speaker 3: out there attempting, to create. Robots et cetera so analytical

879
00:42:40,278 --> 00:42:45,198
Speaker 3: analytics benefits defense a. Pictures, be hitters know and we've talked,

880
00:42:45,238 --> 00:42:49,158
Speaker 3: about This before big acquisitionally it's a big. Boon to

881
00:42:49,158 --> 00:42:52,118
Speaker 3: ACQUISITIONS and even i. SAID becoming, scouts i mean You

882
00:42:52,158 --> 00:42:54,558
Speaker 3: Don't need red gaskell in The Stands or gene thompson in,

883
00:42:54,558 --> 00:42:57,318
Speaker 3: the Stands Anymore or lloyd christopher. In the stands they

884
00:42:57,318 --> 00:42:59,758
Speaker 3: don't want him in. The stands anymore, those guys again

885
00:42:59,878 --> 00:43:01,318
Speaker 3: just like, WE'VE talked about i talked about in a

886
00:43:01,318 --> 00:43:04,798
Speaker 3: recent podcast with somebody today's world doesn't, Get a job

887
00:43:04,918 --> 00:43:07,478
Speaker 3: williams doesn't. GET a job I mean maybe, i Don't

888
00:43:07,518 --> 00:43:09,638
Speaker 3: know even earl doesn't. Get A job billy mart't definitely

889
00:43:09,638 --> 00:43:12,358
Speaker 3: doesn't get a job in today's method, Of DOING things

890
00:43:12,518 --> 00:43:14,798
Speaker 3: AND i miss I could Mention Hall of fame scouts

891
00:43:14,998 --> 00:43:18,038
Speaker 3: that would not even be anywhere near a ballpark today

892
00:43:18,438 --> 00:43:21,718
Speaker 3: based on the methods being. Employed right now so again

893
00:43:21,758 --> 00:43:23,918
Speaker 3: you could argue, the word progressive what does? It really

894
00:43:23,958 --> 00:43:27,038
Speaker 3: mean AND you could i hear the term often the, Game,

895
00:43:27,398 --> 00:43:29,638
Speaker 3: has changed. No it hasn't the way the game is,

896
00:43:29,638 --> 00:43:32,398
Speaker 3: administrated has changed but not. The game itself and THESE

897
00:43:32,678 --> 00:43:35,598
Speaker 3: that's where i get bothered by. All of this so

898
00:43:35,918 --> 00:43:39,038
Speaker 3: let's wait for these guys to do something good for

899
00:43:39,078 --> 00:43:41,398
Speaker 3: a period of time and not just show up and

900
00:43:41,438 --> 00:43:44,478
Speaker 3: become a rising star as opposed to. A SHOOTING star

901
00:43:44,798 --> 00:43:48,158
Speaker 3: and i think that's sometimes that gets clouded because we

902
00:43:48,278 --> 00:43:53,918
Speaker 3: automatically elevate these guys to like excellent status where they're just.

903
00:43:54,278 --> 00:43:55,798
Speaker 3: Entering the portal let's see it.

904
00:43:55,838 --> 00:43:58,158
Speaker 1: Really plays, out you, Know YEARS ago joe i used

905
00:43:58,158 --> 00:44:00,838
Speaker 1: to hear about the transition from the minor leagues to

906
00:44:00,878 --> 00:44:02,878
Speaker 1: the major leagues that the test was can you hit?

907
00:44:02,918 --> 00:44:06,158
Speaker 1: Big league velocity the pitchers. Would test you that. DOESN'T

908
00:44:06,198 --> 00:44:08,118
Speaker 1: happen anymore i mean there's a lot of velosity in

909
00:44:08,118 --> 00:44:10,358
Speaker 1: the minor. Leagues as well actually they see it on

910
00:44:10,398 --> 00:44:12,678
Speaker 1: the amateur. LEVEL as well i think the two biggest

911
00:44:12,758 --> 00:44:15,398
Speaker 1: changes right now for a hitter making the jump to,

912
00:44:15,438 --> 00:44:17,318
Speaker 1: the big leagues and you're seeing this a Little Bit.

913
00:44:17,358 --> 00:44:19,198
Speaker 2: With roman anthony, first of all the strike zone in

914
00:44:19,238 --> 00:44:19,478
Speaker 2: the major.

915
00:44:19,558 --> 00:44:22,638
Speaker 1: Leagues is, bigger you know they've tightened the minor, league

916
00:44:22,678 --> 00:44:24,558
Speaker 1: strike zone and you look at the hitting numbers in

917
00:44:25,118 --> 00:44:27,958
Speaker 1: the minor leagues and they're. Off the charts especially the

918
00:44:28,038 --> 00:44:30,918
Speaker 1: high strike is literally not part of the strike zone in.

919
00:44:30,958 --> 00:44:33,118
Speaker 2: The minor leagues so you've got to adjust to a.

920
00:44:33,158 --> 00:44:35,638
Speaker 1: New strike, ZONE and, also i think, To, me now

921
00:44:35,758 --> 00:44:39,078
Speaker 1: joe the biggest jump what a young hitter has to

922
00:44:39,318 --> 00:44:42,718
Speaker 1: really conquer the hurdle. Is swing decisions there's so much

923
00:44:43,278 --> 00:44:45,878
Speaker 1: spin in, the game today and we just talked about.

924
00:44:45,918 --> 00:44:50,078
Speaker 1: Shaping of pitches the forcing, OF swing decisions i think

925
00:44:50,158 --> 00:44:53,278
Speaker 1: is a lot more difficult the control. Of breaking stuff

926
00:44:53,398 --> 00:44:55,518
Speaker 1: it's better in the big leagues obviously than in. THE

927
00:44:55,558 --> 00:44:59,118
Speaker 1: minor leagues i think pitchers force more swing decisions now in.

928
00:44:59,118 --> 00:45:01,998
Speaker 1: The big leagues that's got to be a tough adjustment for. A,

929
00:45:02,038 --> 00:45:02,518
Speaker 1: young hitter.

930
00:45:03,158 --> 00:45:05,838
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. It's very difficult and of course the

931
00:45:05,838 --> 00:45:08,398
Speaker 3: emphasis on all of that benning average. Doesn't matter anymore

932
00:45:09,398 --> 00:45:12,118
Speaker 3: ops Is the thing i've always been in the. Walks

933
00:45:12,198 --> 00:45:15,318
Speaker 3: versus strikeouts that was my as a. Young HITTING coach

934
00:45:15,318 --> 00:45:18,918
Speaker 3: when i took over in the late Eighties, for the angels,

935
00:45:18,958 --> 00:45:23,718
Speaker 3: my main tenant my main PHILOSOPHICAL component was i wanted

936
00:45:23,758 --> 00:45:25,598
Speaker 3: you to balance your walks of strikeouts as much as

937
00:45:25,638 --> 00:45:27,358
Speaker 3: you can. Now power, HITTERS of course i accept the

938
00:45:27,398 --> 00:45:30,278
Speaker 3: more strikeouts unless walks from. A POWER hitter and i

939
00:45:30,318 --> 00:45:33,198
Speaker 3: wanted the guys that were more line drive average kind

940
00:45:33,198 --> 00:45:35,078
Speaker 3: of guys that wanted to see more of a greater

941
00:45:35,198 --> 00:45:39,998
Speaker 3: balance between walks and strikeouts in. Their developmental, process and

942
00:45:40,078 --> 00:45:43,118
Speaker 3: yeah THE other thing i used. To Runs, produced benny,

943
00:45:43,198 --> 00:45:47,078
Speaker 3: hines the Great Late. Great benny hines he was big

944
00:45:47,118 --> 00:45:49,558
Speaker 3: on how do you call? It run production and you

945
00:45:49,598 --> 00:45:52,998
Speaker 3: would take the, runs and RBIs, ad them together subtract

946
00:45:52,998 --> 00:45:55,358
Speaker 3: home runs because they, counted as both and divide it

947
00:45:55,438 --> 00:45:57,718
Speaker 3: by the number of. Games you played and if YOU

948
00:45:57,798 --> 00:46:00,078
Speaker 3: had an rp number of, one point zero you produced

949
00:46:00,078 --> 00:46:02,438
Speaker 3: at least. One running game. You're PRETTY good and i

950
00:46:02,558 --> 00:46:05,078
Speaker 3: USED to really i used to post on THE board

951
00:46:05,078 --> 00:46:06,798
Speaker 3: when i come, INTO the city i took, it this

952
00:46:06,878 --> 00:46:09,038
Speaker 3: day would take the statue which is, all WE add

953
00:46:09,398 --> 00:46:12,238
Speaker 3: and i, would add, up, YOU know runs rbi subtract homers,

954
00:46:12,278 --> 00:46:14,278
Speaker 3: divided by games and THEY put their rp. NUMBER up

955
00:46:14,318 --> 00:46:16,918
Speaker 3: there i wanted them to think of themselves as producing

956
00:46:16,958 --> 00:46:19,158
Speaker 3: runs per game one. Way or another but if you're

957
00:46:19,158 --> 00:46:21,598
Speaker 3: one point, zero, or better man. You're pretty good so

958
00:46:21,678 --> 00:46:23,878
Speaker 3: these are the kind OF things that i really used to,

959
00:46:23,878 --> 00:46:27,358
Speaker 3: get into now THE fact that ops is so important

960
00:46:27,798 --> 00:46:31,518
Speaker 3: and slug obviously always, has been important but the hitters

961
00:46:31,558 --> 00:46:34,838
Speaker 3: are really more focused on that side of the ledger

962
00:46:34,878 --> 00:46:38,238
Speaker 3: as opposed to this other one producing runs. In another

963
00:46:38,238 --> 00:46:40,758
Speaker 3: way so it's just how we think about things and

964
00:46:40,998 --> 00:46:43,038
Speaker 3: the way we think about the game and hitters how

965
00:46:43,078 --> 00:46:45,558
Speaker 3: they think about themselves Has Changed because i've i've had

966
00:46:45,638 --> 00:46:49,158
Speaker 3: hitters talk to me about that specifically, regarding you know,

967
00:46:49,158 --> 00:46:53,078
Speaker 3: where they're at what's going on in. This time slot

968
00:46:53,078 --> 00:46:55,998
Speaker 3: this month is two, weeks of hitting and they're they're always,

969
00:46:56,078 --> 00:46:58,318
Speaker 3: Concerned about that and it really does come down. To

970
00:46:58,838 --> 00:47:01,718
Speaker 3: Decision making and i'm a big and when you're talking about,

971
00:47:01,758 --> 00:47:04,838
Speaker 3: these pictures today they're able to take a ball, become

972
00:47:04,878 --> 00:47:07,238
Speaker 3: a strike and a strike become a BALL with like

973
00:47:07,278 --> 00:47:09,438
Speaker 3: i probably, like you know when you have to honor that, Kind,

974
00:47:09,438 --> 00:47:13,838
Speaker 3: of velocity god it really and you have to make up.

975
00:47:13,838 --> 00:47:15,678
Speaker 3: Your mind sooner that's where a big part of this

976
00:47:16,238 --> 00:47:19,598
Speaker 3: is involved with the strike Ball, especially so god there's,

977
00:47:19,598 --> 00:47:21,398
Speaker 3: so many again so many things to, talk about it

978
00:47:21,478 --> 00:47:23,078
Speaker 3: and you make me think about so many. Different things

979
00:47:23,118 --> 00:47:26,398
Speaker 3: simultaneously but that's, what's, Going on man it's you got

980
00:47:26,398 --> 00:47:28,358
Speaker 3: to make, your mind quicker which is going to. Force,

981
00:47:28,358 --> 00:47:29,598
Speaker 3: bad Decisions.

982
00:47:29,278 --> 00:47:31,998
Speaker 1: Well now i'm gonna make you come up with something to, Take,

983
00:47:32,038 --> 00:47:34,358
Speaker 1: us HOME joe as. I always do i'm tempted to

984
00:47:34,398 --> 00:47:37,198
Speaker 1: say the pressure is on for you to do something

985
00:47:37,278 --> 00:47:37,838
Speaker 1: better than.

986
00:47:38,238 --> 00:47:42,518
Speaker 2: A grown. Man shoot, me I'M confident will i DON'T know.

987
00:47:42,598 --> 00:47:45,678
Speaker 3: IF i can i don't know. If, that's topable. YEAH

988
00:47:45,718 --> 00:47:48,718
Speaker 3: there was i was all over. The place today, there's

989
00:47:48,718 --> 00:47:51,238
Speaker 3: Two things but i'm gonna go with. This one here

990
00:47:51,558 --> 00:47:54,918
Speaker 3: education is not. Learning the facts it's rather the training

991
00:47:54,958 --> 00:47:57,838
Speaker 3: of the. Mind to think i'm so caught up in.

992
00:47:57,878 --> 00:48:01,518
Speaker 3: THIS force thinking, i, mean again nobody nobody's asked. To

993
00:48:01,518 --> 00:48:04,558
Speaker 3: think anymore everybody's presented with print out and data and.

994
00:48:04,598 --> 00:48:08,798
Speaker 3: Information and numbers that with that is your ability to

995
00:48:08,838 --> 00:48:13,518
Speaker 3: think and process and create new methods or ways from,

996
00:48:13,558 --> 00:48:16,118
Speaker 3: your own soul from, your own spirit from. Your OWN

997
00:48:16,158 --> 00:48:21,518
Speaker 3: experiences because i think everybody relies on quote unquote leadership

998
00:48:21,558 --> 00:48:23,558
Speaker 3: to do that. FOR them anymore. I don't know i

999
00:48:23,558 --> 00:48:25,478
Speaker 3: don't know how many people are. THINKING for, themselves i mean,

1000
00:48:25,798 --> 00:48:28,358
Speaker 3: if you watch if you listen to managers, AFTER the

1001
00:48:28,358 --> 00:48:31,398
Speaker 3: game i could hear, the thinking manager and sometimes you just,

1002
00:48:31,438 --> 00:48:34,478
Speaker 3: hear THE regurgitator which i think the regurgitator is more

1003
00:48:35,278 --> 00:48:38,558
Speaker 3: prevalent than. The Thinker anymore so i've always been a.

1004
00:48:38,598 --> 00:48:41,318
Speaker 3: Proponent of this one of my first Slogans With the

1005
00:48:43,198 --> 00:48:45,118
Speaker 3: devil rays was tell me, what you think not. What

1006
00:48:45,158 --> 00:48:49,518
Speaker 3: YOU'VE heard and i think that primarily with the way

1007
00:48:49,558 --> 00:48:53,798
Speaker 3: things are, done right now whomever is in the leadership

1008
00:48:53,838 --> 00:48:56,918
Speaker 3: seat want you to go by what you've heard and

1009
00:48:56,958 --> 00:48:59,598
Speaker 3: not what you think necessarily because we really don't want

1010
00:48:59,678 --> 00:49:02,038
Speaker 3: to know. What you think and that to me is as.

1011
00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:04,238
Speaker 3: A tremendous downfall AND even when i watched the news

1012
00:49:04,238 --> 00:49:07,718
Speaker 3: AND you watch tv with all, the different opinions people

1013
00:49:07,678 --> 00:49:09,198
Speaker 3: will just rely on that and they'll go out and

1014
00:49:09,198 --> 00:49:11,958
Speaker 3: regurgitate those opinions during the course of the day without

1015
00:49:11,958 --> 00:49:15,238
Speaker 3: having thought it through. Them for themselves so education is not.

1016
00:49:15,358 --> 00:49:17,918
Speaker 3: Learning the facts it's the rather the training of the.

1017
00:49:17,958 --> 00:49:20,318
Speaker 3: Mind To, think mister einstein.

1018
00:49:20,118 --> 00:49:22,278
Speaker 1: That's, Really, good stuff joe especially when it. Comes to

1019
00:49:22,278 --> 00:49:24,718
Speaker 1: baseball he just made me. THINK of something i Was Talking,

1020
00:49:24,798 --> 00:49:28,478
Speaker 1: To dave, roberts Dodgers manager About andy pahes is having

1021
00:49:28,918 --> 00:49:31,158
Speaker 1: just a, great breakout season should Be At The, all

1022
00:49:31,158 --> 00:49:33,758
Speaker 1: star game and, he mentioned, that You know Pahes is

1023
00:49:33,758 --> 00:49:36,558
Speaker 1: from cuba kind of got bombarded with a lot of,

1024
00:49:36,678 --> 00:49:40,358
Speaker 1: technology and information, and he, said this year the biggest

1025
00:49:40,358 --> 00:49:42,838
Speaker 1: difference is he's just gone back to being an athlete

1026
00:49:42,878 --> 00:49:44,998
Speaker 1: and playing the. Game of baseball not that he doesn't,

1027
00:49:45,078 --> 00:49:48,238
Speaker 1: use that stuff but he's really. Toned it down doesn't

1028
00:49:48,278 --> 00:49:50,238
Speaker 1: have to look at the iPad after every single at

1029
00:49:50,318 --> 00:49:52,678
Speaker 1: bet and check, where his feet where. His hands, were

1030
00:49:52,718 --> 00:49:54,958
Speaker 1: he said he's just gotten back to really, being a

1031
00:49:55,078 --> 00:49:59,278
Speaker 1: confident trusting ballplayer and trusting his athletic abilities and then

1032
00:49:59,398 --> 00:50:01,478
Speaker 1: just supplementing it with the information instead of.

1033
00:50:01,518 --> 00:50:03,798
Speaker 3: Relying. ON it, yeah i mean at some point you

1034
00:50:04,158 --> 00:50:07,678
Speaker 3: you got to. JUST drop, it i mean everybody thinks

1035
00:50:07,718 --> 00:50:10,118
Speaker 3: all this during the course. Of the game they think analytics.

1036
00:50:10,198 --> 00:50:12,398
Speaker 3: Is winning games. It is not it is. Not, winning

1037
00:50:12,398 --> 00:50:16,278
Speaker 3: games athletes good baseball players' ability to react. In, the moment,

1038
00:50:16,358 --> 00:50:19,278
Speaker 3: again theories, wonderful reality happens and then you have to

1039
00:50:19,558 --> 00:50:22,438
Speaker 3: who's able, to make adjustments who's able to make adjustments

1040
00:50:22,478 --> 00:50:25,118
Speaker 3: based on, what they're seeing. What they're feeling and they're

1041
00:50:25,158 --> 00:50:28,038
Speaker 3: not gonna sit there and just. Go photographic memory they're

1042
00:50:28,078 --> 00:50:30,838
Speaker 3: gonna file through some kind of a page that they

1043
00:50:30,838 --> 00:50:32,878
Speaker 3: saw before the course. Of the, game of course not as,

1044
00:50:32,878 --> 00:50:35,958
Speaker 3: a hitting coach even back when, WE'RE so rudimentary i

1045
00:50:35,958 --> 00:50:38,038
Speaker 3: would really ask or try to insist. To, the player

1046
00:50:38,078 --> 00:50:39,718
Speaker 3: listen we're gonna work on this stuff off the tea

1047
00:50:39,758 --> 00:50:42,238
Speaker 3: when the. Ball's, not moving okay let's let's stand here

1048
00:50:42,278 --> 00:50:43,878
Speaker 3: and think about a. Couple of things we'll work on

1049
00:50:43,918 --> 00:50:46,078
Speaker 3: a couple, of THINGS specifically and i mean, a couple,

1050
00:50:46,198 --> 00:50:49,158
Speaker 3: hopefully just. One maybe two, AND then afterwards i want

1051
00:50:49,198 --> 00:50:50,718
Speaker 3: you to go, in a game hopefully and just look,

1052
00:50:50,758 --> 00:50:52,718
Speaker 3: at the, ball you know go up there with. Your

1053
00:50:52,798 --> 00:50:54,598
Speaker 3: game plan? Where YOU looking am? I LOOKING in am?

1054
00:50:54,638 --> 00:50:56,838
Speaker 3: I LOOKING away am i? Sitting ON hard am i?

1055
00:50:56,838 --> 00:50:59,678
Speaker 3: Sitting on soft all, These different things but just keep it,

1056
00:50:59,718 --> 00:51:02,158
Speaker 3: to one thought because. YOU really can't. I used to

1057
00:51:02,158 --> 00:51:04,198
Speaker 3: i used to point out to the mist then sit

1058
00:51:04,238 --> 00:51:07,518
Speaker 3: in my room after as a rover i'd back in

1059
00:51:07,918 --> 00:51:10,918
Speaker 3: the ninety, eighties AND nineties and i would sit there

1060
00:51:10,918 --> 00:51:13,838
Speaker 3: and listen to the audis all the team reports, from

1061
00:51:13,838 --> 00:51:15,798
Speaker 3: that night it'd be like two o'clock, in The morning

1062
00:51:15,798 --> 00:51:18,918
Speaker 3: and i'm also TRYING to. Watch TV simultaneously and i,

1063
00:51:18,958 --> 00:51:20,758
Speaker 3: thought to, them you know it's, kind of. STUPID but

1064
00:51:20,838 --> 00:51:23,198
Speaker 3: true I can't watch tv and, listen TO this or

1065
00:51:23,198 --> 00:51:25,318
Speaker 3: i can't listen to THIS. And watch tv you can't

1066
00:51:25,318 --> 00:51:27,878
Speaker 3: do two things. At one time. You just cannot so

1067
00:51:27,918 --> 00:51:30,118
Speaker 3: when it comes down, to holding thoughts it's one, at

1068
00:51:30,198 --> 00:51:32,678
Speaker 3: the most. Hold one thought when you try to hold

1069
00:51:32,798 --> 00:51:36,198
Speaker 3: hold more, than one thought it. Just doesn't work and

1070
00:51:36,238 --> 00:51:40,358
Speaker 3: that's the misconception with all this information that everybody thinks. It's,

1071
00:51:40,358 --> 00:51:43,038
Speaker 3: so Valuable again if i'm going to buy, my next,

1072
00:51:43,078 --> 00:51:46,118
Speaker 3: shortstop give me, give me, reams give me Give Me

1073
00:51:46,158 --> 00:51:51,438
Speaker 3: this encyclopedia britannica looking for? My? Next shortstop ABSOLUTELY where

1074
00:51:51,438 --> 00:51:54,238
Speaker 3: do i want to Play against tom berducci? Tonight? At

1075
00:51:54,238 --> 00:51:56,878
Speaker 3: shortstop absolutely give me as much as You. Got on

1076
00:51:56,958 --> 00:51:59,438
Speaker 3: tommy AND where do i want? To? Pitch them absolutely but,

1077
00:51:59,558 --> 00:52:02,638
Speaker 3: as a hitter keep, that, slate clean brother because if

1078
00:52:02,638 --> 00:52:04,198
Speaker 3: you give, Me two. Thoughts i'm, Screwed.

1079
00:52:04,358 --> 00:52:08,598
Speaker 1: Great, Stuff joe well the summer has arrived officially and

1080
00:52:08,718 --> 00:52:12,598
Speaker 1: the second half of the season. Starts this week crazy look.

1081
00:52:12,678 --> 00:52:14,478
Speaker 1: Forward to it we'll see you next Time of The.

1082
00:52:14,478 --> 00:52:16,958
Speaker 1: Book Of joe Thanks. Brother Fun stuff.

1083
00:52:24,078 --> 00:52:25,718
Speaker 2: The book of joe podcast is A.

1084
00:52:25,758 --> 00:52:31,078
Speaker 1: Production of iHeartRadio for More, podcasts from iHeartRadio visit, The iHeartRadio,

1085
00:52:31,118 --> 00:52:33,358
Speaker 1: app apple podcasts or wherever you.

1086
00:52:33,398 --> 00:52:34,398
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