1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: It's that time time time, time, Luck and load. 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:19,639 Speaker 2: The Michael Very Show is on the air. Clifton Duncan 3 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: is our guest. 4 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 3: He is doing a new one man show on the 5 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 3: Great Thomas Soule. When I asked the question, it was 6 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 3: because I'm I'm genuinely thinking about how I would do 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 3: it if I were doing that. I don't have the 8 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:34,959 Speaker 3: acting skill you do. But I research people. I study them. 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: I say, I take them apart and put them back together. 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 3: I'm fascinated by not just what people have to say, 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:42,560 Speaker 3: especially someone like Soul who has so much to say, 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: but how they arrived at that. You know, his experience 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 3: with Milton Friedman and having been in Friedman's class at 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 3: the University of Chicago, and he says, but I left 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 3: the class and I was still a liberal. And he 16 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,080 Speaker 3: goes to work for the Labor Department, and then he 17 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 3: realizes that the Labor Department does not care about black 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 3: people or employees, both of whom they claim to and 19 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 3: that when he pointed out that the data was actually 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 3: harmful to these people from what they were recommending, that 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 3: they said that doesn't matter. And that was the moment, 22 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 3: that was his aha moment, that was his his eureka, 23 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: oh my goodness, these people don't believe anything they're saying, 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 3: and it it transformed him and he went on to 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 3: be the man he is today. You know, I think 26 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,640 Speaker 3: that's just absolutely fascinating. And that tells you this man 27 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 3: wasn't born into this, right. I mean, I've made a 28 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 3: transformation in my life from from what I think and 29 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 3: and where I am, and most of us have, and 30 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 3: in his I think that will I can. Sorry, I'm 31 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 3: thinking and planning this, this project for you. I'm writing 32 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 3: it in my head Clifton right now as we talk. 33 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 3: Uh and and I'm just imagining you have such a 34 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: great opportunity to tell that as just that is that 35 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 3: is fantastic. So what does it look like? I mean, 36 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 3: will this be a will you go on tour? Because 37 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 3: if you do, we're coordinating Houston for you and all 38 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: of our markets for that matter. 39 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 2: But what do you envision this looking like? 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 4: Well, right now, the plan is to spend the next 41 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 4: six months developing, you know, researching and developing a first draft. 42 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 4: I've got a great line producer as well as some 43 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 4: great trusted friends who are New York sharp in terms 44 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 4: of you know, their ability to discern what's good and. 45 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 5: What is not. 46 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 4: So that's the first step, but then as time goes on, 47 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 4: what I want to do. It's sort of like what 48 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: a stand up comedian does, right. They go around and 49 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 4: they do all types of venues to test out their material, 50 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 4: because you don't know what works until you do it 51 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 4: in front of an audience. The audience is the one 52 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 4: who teaches you how to do the show right. What 53 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 4: you know, what moments are working, what moments are clicking? 54 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 4: When are they on the edge of their seats, When 55 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 4: are they listening? When are they sort of unwrapping candies 56 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 4: and coughing and wrestling through their programs? When are they laughing? 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 4: When are they you know, silent? You know, are they 58 00:02:57,120 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 4: gasping anywhere? And so you know, I mean it's a 59 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 4: piece of life theater and one of the one of 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 4: the great things about theater. And you touched on this 61 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 4: in your intro is you know, it's just it's part 62 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 4: of You're in this experience. You're in the room with 63 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 4: other people, other human beings, sharing the same air, the 64 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 4: same molecules, the same sound waves, the same space, and 65 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 4: experiencing something together. And that's the magic of theater that 66 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 4: you have, you have the the relationship between the actor 67 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 4: and the audience that you don't get when you're doing 68 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: TV and film, and so that's really a big prospect 69 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 4: for me, is that, you know, just touring around and 70 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 4: seeing how people respond and what they respond to. And 71 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 4: I always enjoy talking to people after shows as well 72 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 4: to see like what worked for them and what didn't, 73 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 4: and also seeing the country but will also be nice. 74 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 4: But then ultimately the goal is to upload the show 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 4: on the internet so that the whole world. 76 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 5: Can see it. 77 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 4: And but that's that's only after it's been you know, 78 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 4: honed and tightened and and performed before you know, a 79 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 4: bunch of audiences, which is again what comedians do before 80 00:03:58,920 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 4: they film their own special. 81 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 5: So that's you know, it might. 82 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 4: Be a grueling road process, but there's already been a 83 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 4: few people who've been. 84 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 5: Like, yeah, you know, come do it. 85 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: I somehow think you're up for At Clifton, you fell 86 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 3: to the depths, didn't expect it, had no net. We're 87 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 3: waiting tables and wondering what had become of your life. 88 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 3: And and somehow since then you have had to talk 89 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,039 Speaker 3: about a guy having a resurgence You've had a pretty 90 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 3: darn good run yourself, and I think it's it's headed upward. 91 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,840 Speaker 3: And I think now you're in control of your career 92 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 3: in a way that even though you were an accomplished 93 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 3: actor you could, you were always at the at the 94 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: mercy of the casting agent. Now you're taking control of 95 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 3: your own career and the product you produce, and I 96 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 3: think that's I think that's very exciting. 97 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:46,880 Speaker 2: I think that's very exciting. 98 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 3: Have you given a thought Have you given thought to 99 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,480 Speaker 3: meeting Thomas Old, to conversations, to that process. 100 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know you mentioned before. I mean, he 101 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 4: is notoriously elusive, shall we say so? Initially, I mean 102 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 4: I was so excited. I didn't really think about it 103 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,719 Speaker 4: because I figured I'm never going to get a response 104 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 4: from him. But I know people who know him, they're 105 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: trying to get in touch with him, or to get 106 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,840 Speaker 4: us in touch, I should say, because you know, at 107 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 4: the end of the day, I was like, yeah, I'm 108 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:15,600 Speaker 4: so excited about it. 109 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,159 Speaker 5: The idea would be kind of weird. 110 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 4: To do this whole play without without talking to him 111 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 4: and you know, hearing what he has to say about it. 112 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 4: So we're trying to get in touch with him, as 113 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 4: you know, it's very, very difficult to do so and 114 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, the dude is almost one hundred 115 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 4: years old, so I kind of want to leave. 116 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 5: Him alone and so he can have you know, so he. 117 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 4: Can sort of you know, enjoy enjoy his time and 118 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 4: not be pestered by by some you know, young gen X, 119 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 4: old millennial who wants to you know, I guess talk 120 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 4: about him. So but we're working on trying to get 121 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 4: in touch with him. And you know, just even a 122 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: phone call would be would be cool. The visit will 123 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 4: be even better, but you know, we'll we'll see how 124 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 4: that pans out. 125 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: The good news is there is a great body of 126 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 3: workout of interviews and I often quote examples he gives 127 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 3: in the book Basic Economics. And I studied economics in college. 128 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: I took a number of courses and I've read my 129 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: wife was in a PhD program when she switched to 130 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: law from economics. Economics is something I read about a lot, 131 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 3: is something I think about. It's something I stay I 132 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 3: try to stay on top of. And yet he writes 133 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: this book Basic Economics, which is kind of economics for 134 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 3: people that didn't go to college, and it is so 135 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: beautifully written. Because of the simplicity, Thomas Soul doesn't feel 136 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 3: the need to be inaccessible to show that he's brilliant. 137 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 3: He does just the opposite. He makes the difficult understandable. 138 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 3: And you know, I think Rush Limbo had a knack 139 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 3: for doing that on the radio, but Soul does that 140 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: with very complicated concepts, and then he'll use a little 141 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 3: anecdote of you know, when he was traveling in India 142 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 3: and this happened. That book Basic Economics is my favorite 143 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 3: of everything he did because of the excess ability and 144 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: because of the ability to democratize knowledge about simple scientific 145 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 3: concepts underpinning economics. And I think that that alone, if 146 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 3: that was all he ever did, would be amazing. And 147 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 3: of course he did so much more well. 148 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 5: I totally agree. 149 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: You know, I think Basic Economics should be required reading 150 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 4: for all high school students in the United States. We'd 151 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 4: have a way, way different country. And I mean, he 152 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 4: wrote it to be accessible, and I was like, dude, 153 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 4: if even a dummy like me can understand what he's saying, 154 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 4: you know, that is that is a That's a great 155 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 4: gift to be able to, like you said, break down 156 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: these complex issues and simplify them for the messes. I'm 157 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 4: also thinking of someone like the physicist Richard Feinman. Feineman 158 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 4: was also someone who really championed simplicity. But the thing 159 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 4: about it is that even in the arts as well 160 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 4: and the craft of acting, you know, simplicity, simplicity, simplicity 161 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 4: is always key. 162 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 5: Be specific, be simple. 163 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 4: You don't need a bunch of ornate you know, flowery language, 164 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 4: or you don't have to you a bunch of gestures 165 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: or whatever. Just get to what's simple and what's true. 166 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 4: And that's as true for I think Thomas Soul's work 167 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 4: as it is for acting as well. So it's kind 168 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 4: of funny now that I'm saying it's out loud, but 169 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 4: in a way that that approach to make something, make 170 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 4: something simple and accessible, and he was probably a good 171 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 4: ethos to follow for the quote, So whats. 172 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 6: Do you want to right? 173 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 5: What do you want? 174 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 6: Do you want to meet? 175 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 7: The Michael Barry just to say the word and I'll 176 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 7: throw asshole around it for god. 177 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 3: Clifton Duncan, a celebrated, much respected stage actor, is our guest. 178 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 3: He is doing a new one man show on the 179 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:44,040 Speaker 3: great Thomas Soul and sharing some details about that with us. 180 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 3: When friends of mine from law school used to say, 181 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 3: you know, Michael, you're better than that. You're talking about 182 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 3: such simplistic things in such simplistic ways. I would respond, 183 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 3: and they never liked this. I would say, I sell 184 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 3: big Max, not caviar, because it's the masses. And so 185 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 3: many times we try to distance ourselves in this ivory 186 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: tower from real people by using language that is hard 187 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: to understand and therefore disconnects, when the point is the 188 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 3: ideas should be universal and they should be accessible. And 189 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,199 Speaker 3: I think that's one of the things that Soul does 190 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 3: so beautifully and so modest, because he does not attempt 191 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 3: to hold himself out as if he's a pontificating professor, 192 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 3: but quite the opposite. 193 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 5: You know. 194 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 3: He tells a story about he was teaching at I 195 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 3: think it was Cornell. I think it was Cornell, and 196 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 3: he was talking about how affirmative action had hurt the 197 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: black students and how he went to the admissions office 198 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 3: and he found that the students who were struggling the 199 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 3: most were students who were black and shouldn't have been admitted. 200 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,679 Speaker 3: And his point was these students were going to fill 201 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 3: out of Cornell and fell out of life because of 202 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 3: what would happen when that student should have gone to 203 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: Indiana or Indiana State and they would have been an 204 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 3: a student and they could have built along the way. 205 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:58,839 Speaker 3: It's like throwing a kid from high school into the 206 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 3: pro into the pros and they're not ready for that, 207 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: and you think you're helping them, but you're not. Clifton 208 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 3: Duncan is our guest. He's working on a project called Soul, 209 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 3: a solo play about an American genius. Now, I noticed 210 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 3: recently you did a GoFundMe and your goal was to 211 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 3: raise ten thousand dollars and in a matter of hours 212 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 3: you had raised seventy two thousand dollars with six hundred 213 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 3: and twenty eight backers. It is clear to me that 214 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 3: there is an audience for what you're doing, and more importantly, 215 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 3: there are a lot of people out here like our 216 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 3: show that support what you're doing. That's to be it's 217 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 3: got to be humbling and gratifying. It definitely is, and 218 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 3: on some level it's a bit daunting. But after reminding 219 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: myself that people are very excited and they want to 220 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 3: they want to see me succeed, which is great, But 221 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,480 Speaker 3: I think The biggest story about that is that right 222 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 3: now the American theater industry is a skill reeling from 223 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 3: its self inflicted. 224 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 5: Wounds from the pandemic years. 225 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:55,960 Speaker 4: And I mean, as one of the only people who 226 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 4: was saying publicly like, we shouldn't we shouldn't be doing this, 227 00:10:58,840 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: This is not the right way to go. You're going 228 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 4: to destroy the industry. And they're as of now, mean, 229 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: Broadway still has not recovered from from their closures, their 230 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 4: theaters around the country which are truncating their seasons or 231 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 4: they're closing outright, and you know, the leaders within the 232 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 4: theater industry are just are talking about how there's just 233 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 4: you know, how it's so expensive to produce shows, and 234 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 4: you know, twenty percent of the audience hasn't even come back, 235 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 4: and donors are drying up in the idiadiada. And I'm 236 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 4: just one guy, and within the span of a couple 237 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 4: of weeks, I raised almost one hundred thousand dollars. So 238 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 4: on one hand, it's a bit of I take a 239 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 4: little bit of joy in the fact that these people 240 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 4: who decided that I should not be allowed to work 241 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 4: for making a very logical medical decision for myself are 242 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 4: sitting there wondering what the heck are we going to do, 243 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 4: how we're going to you know, like I hear from 244 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 4: my friends who are still in the game in New 245 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 4: York who are saying, you know, own the stars are 246 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,679 Speaker 4: making money now, like you know, the regular sort of 247 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 4: jobbing journeymen actors who they make their living, but you 248 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 4: know they have to hustle to do it. That there's 249 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 4: just nowhere near as much money anymore. At the same time, 250 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 4: what's also great is that it indicates to me what 251 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 4: I've felt for a long time, which is that there 252 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 4: is a huge, huge audience outside of these deep blue 253 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 4: metros who think they're so much better than everybody else 254 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 4: and think they're so much more sophisticated than everybody else. 255 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: Like, no, you are something right there, brother, keep going. 256 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 257 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 4: Well, you know, people want to see great arms and 258 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 4: they don't want to you know, made by people that 259 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,320 Speaker 4: don't hate them. And there's this idea, you know, and 260 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,319 Speaker 4: I spent so much time around these people, but they 261 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 4: think everyone in Red America or flyover country, so to speak, 262 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: is some redneck groub or whatever they like. 263 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 5: They don't get it. They just don't get it. 264 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 4: And to me, I think the bigger story, it's bigger 265 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 4: than myself, is that there are people out there. I mean, 266 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 4: there are so many like sort of small donors to 267 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 4: the project who want to see succeed. Or I get 268 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 4: messages from people who say, like, I don't really have 269 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 4: anything to give, but I'm like yo, you know, like 270 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 4: great comments and good vibes are also accepted as means 271 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 4: of support. So there is a huge, untapped, massive people 272 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 4: who are who want to come and give their you know, 273 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 4: and trade their money and their time for a great 274 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 4: experience at the theatre in the arts. And that's that's 275 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 4: really the big story for me, because I think more 276 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 4: I suppose I call the more conservative leaning, more right leaning, 277 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 4: you know whatever. One of my frustrations has been that, 278 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 4: you know, there hasn't been that much support for the 279 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 4: for the arts, but why would they write you know 280 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 4: what I mean, that they've been so reviled by people 281 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 4: who are making so much of the culture. So it's 282 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 4: just it's really gratifying, you know, on multiple levels, but 283 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 4: especially because it's it's money coming from people that you know, 284 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 4: are they they have been pushed out, you know what 285 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 4: I mean, from from the industry and so that that's 286 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: the bigger story. 287 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 5: There is that there is a there is. 288 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 4: A a hunger for for arts and for culture and 289 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 4: for entertainment, and that is the that's really gratifying for me, 290 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 4: because I'm like, dude, this is it, this is it 291 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 4: right here. There's way, way, way, way more people who 292 00:13:57,120 --> 00:13:58,680 Speaker 4: outside of New York and LA. 293 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 5: And trying to. 294 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 4: Doing work that appeals to those people, to me, seems 295 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 4: like a much, much, a much better idea than catering 296 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 4: to the sliver of people who adhere to these really 297 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 4: sort of extreme left wing views which just keep getting 298 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 4: more and more insane. 299 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 3: You Clifton Duncan is our guest is a great stage actor, 300 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 3: was in Broadway. He refused to bend the knee during 301 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 3: COVID and found himself out of a career and an 302 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 3: identity and out of great artistic talent and a whole 303 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 3: lot of grit. He is back and he's going to 304 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 3: be bigger than ever. He's got a lot going on. 305 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: We're going to get to that in just a moment, 306 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 3: but we wanted to talk to him about his new project, 307 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 3: a one man show about Thomas Soul. You wrote, Clifton. 308 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 3: Legendary producer Rick Rubin is open about the anxiety he 309 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 3: feels at the start of a new project. 310 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 2: You just don't know what the damn thing's going to be. 311 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: That's daunting. So now what's next? 312 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 3: And then you tell about out as you writ it 313 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 3: becoming Thomas Soul? Do you intend to wear his black 314 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 3: horn rim glasses? And we talked about his afro earlier. 315 00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: Do you intend to do you intend to appear to 316 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 3: look like Tomas Soul? 317 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 4: Well, of course, you know, and someone actually on that 318 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 4: post is on my substack, the State of the Arts, 319 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 4: and they posted about his glasses specifically, and he said, 320 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 4: you know, you could use it as a form of 321 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 4: a mask. So in the theater and acting, you know, 322 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 4: you can sometimes use maskwork to find different shades of 323 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 4: a character or different different modes of expression. And to me, 324 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 4: the glasses they're so iconic, you know, along with the frow, 325 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 4: that that's one of those things where you have to 326 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 4: incorporate it and do it. And I'm curious as to 327 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 4: how the glasses would transform it. I sort of see 328 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: this moment in the show where the dawning of the 329 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 4: glasses becomes a pivotal kind of moment that people kind 330 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 4: of know because people know him because of the you know, 331 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 4: these glasses well and and. 332 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 3: That sort of rumpled professor look he has. Right, he's 333 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 3: not in any way stylish's he's sort of like the 334 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 3: professor in the paper Chase. He's he's got kind of 335 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: the hound's tooth uh off colored jacket, but he always 336 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 3: has to tie and he always has the dress. But 337 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 3: he's not he's not stylish per se. He's sort of 338 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 3: conservatively dressed, but it's very distinctive. 339 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 2: You can. 340 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: You know, I watch I watch everything on him on YouTube, 341 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: and when I'm flipping around because I've watched so much, 342 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 3: the algorithm you know, puts more in my cue to watch, 343 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 3: and I can always spot him, you know, you can 344 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 3: just glance at him. You can see that it's him. 345 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 3: It is interesting because the glasses, I think probably will 346 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 3: transform you because that's so unlike your look. 347 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean, you know I have I have. 348 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,360 Speaker 4: I'm justly near sighted, so I have some glasses that 349 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 4: I wear, but they're no, they're nowhere on the level 350 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,360 Speaker 4: and how U of the of the soul glasses with 351 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:39,479 Speaker 4: soul godless. 352 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: I don't care if somebody do this streaks shoot you 353 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:42,240 Speaker 2: can't shoot him. 354 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 6: Michael past It's been rebooked. 355 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 8: So it's the comparison between progress simply the decency of 356 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 8: the life available to people. They weren't black, The families 357 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 8: were intact, and schools work, and the neighborhoods were more 358 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 8: or less safe. People were able to lead decent lives. 359 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 8: If the contrast between that world and the world we 360 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 8: inhabit now is owing so directly to to liberal policies intended, 361 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 8: so we're told to help African Americans. Why do African 362 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 8: Americans support the liberal the more liberal of the two parties, 363 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 8: the Democratic Party, at the rates of ninety and more percent. 364 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 8: Why is the first African American president so deeply committed 365 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 8: to promoting and extending liberal policies. Why is his African 366 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 8: American Attorney general again so deeply committed to affirmative. 367 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: Action and other Why this makes a no sense? 368 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think we could be enough hours to 369 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: answer all those, But to take the political thing, one 370 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: of the things I discovered in the research from mine 371 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,880 Speaker 1: and from my book I'm currently working on is that 372 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: leaders of groups that are lagging in countries around the 373 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: world almost invariably have counterproductive policies for them and it 374 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: makes perfect sense because in so far as members of 375 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: lagging groups assimilate into the values and achievements of the 376 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 1: larger society, they. 377 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 5: Don't need those leaders, you know. And you see this. 378 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,240 Speaker 1: Look at the history of the Czechs in the nineteenth century. 379 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: People are worried that the Czechs are all learning to 380 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 1: speak German. Well, at that time, if you wanted to 381 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: become a professional person, scientists, anything like that, you had 382 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: to use books that were written in German, simply because 383 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: the German acquired a volume of literature centuries ahead of 384 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: Czech And yet they fought to with a nail against that. 385 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: If you look at the Sri Lanka, one of the 386 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,679 Speaker 1: uguis that was made there to the Buddhists leaders was 387 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 1: that if we don't do something, the Tamil minority will 388 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 1: assimilate members of the of the of the sin Ealese majority, 389 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:14,159 Speaker 1: and then there will be no Buddhists or cent Ealese 390 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: in another several generations. And so, I mean, there's no 391 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: mystery to me as the why Jesse Jackson says what 392 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,400 Speaker 1: he does, Al Sharpton and others because that benefits them, 393 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 1: but it does not benefit the people They lead and 394 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: all the incentives off of leaders to lead people into 395 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: things that don't. 396 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 5: Help the people but help the leaders. 397 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 3: Clifton Duncan, why do you think there has been you know, 398 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 3: six hundred and twenty eight backers, You've had more than 399 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 3: that since then? That was the number I saw from 400 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,719 Speaker 3: a few days ago. Where do you what is the 401 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 3: source of this? Why do you think people want He's 402 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 3: not a well known guy, or as well known as 403 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 3: he should be considering his intellectual prowess and his influence. 404 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 3: Why do you think people want to see this? 405 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 5: Well? 406 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 4: One, you know, I've built an audience over the past 407 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 4: few years just by speaking my mind. 408 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 5: And so I think. 409 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 4: The the people that I've attracted to my work, or 410 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 4: my ideas, or my opinions, my persona whatever you you know, 411 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 4: whatever you might want to call it, they're excited about 412 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 4: the prospect of me doing doing something get especially given 413 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 4: my story in my background. And I think, again, soul 414 00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 4: is somebody who among this demographic of folks is highly 415 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 4: highly revered. And so I think the combination of those 416 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:48,159 Speaker 4: two factors and people are really sick of the current 417 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 4: traditional cultural institutions is pumping out. I mean, everything from 418 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,720 Speaker 4: comic books and video games to Hollywood, right, they're pumping 419 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 4: out this content that or this material that speaks to 420 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 4: one as Soul put a vision of the world, and 421 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 4: it's just not connecting with people. So I think there's 422 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 4: an excitement about myself. There's an excitement about seeing someone 423 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 4: like Soul brought to the stage in the manner of 424 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 4: you know, a third Good Marshall or James Baldwin or 425 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 4: you know, Louis Armstrong and Paul Roberson have been done before. 426 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 5: And there's also just a sort. 427 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 4: Of what's the a PG term, sort of a middle 428 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 4: finger to the established cultural institution saying, hey, you know, 429 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 4: we we're putting our money where we want it to go, 430 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 4: and we're we're not putting it like I said before 431 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: that we're not going to your theaters. We want to 432 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 4: see we want to hire this person. 433 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 5: To write this play. We don't. We don't care about 434 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 5: what you're doing, you know, over there. 435 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 4: And so I think it's it's a it's a it's 436 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 4: a mixture of things and also a fourth aspect, now 437 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 4: that I think about it might be just I think 438 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 4: there seems to be a shift. 439 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 5: In the zeich I'm in New York right now. 440 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,120 Speaker 4: And I was hanging out last night with a bunch 441 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 4: of younger artists and there is a it was a 442 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 4: much more heterodox crowd, mixed crowd. There were some Republicans there, 443 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 4: there were some you know, lefties there, and I think 444 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 4: a lot of people are really more, even in New York, 445 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 4: are just really they're more over all of this division 446 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 4: and partisan nonsense than I think we're being led to believe. 447 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,720 Speaker 4: Like it's sort of an open conversation now, but about 448 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 4: what the problems are in terms of you know, quote 449 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 4: unquote wokeness or progressivism, whatever it is people are seeing, 450 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 4: and I think they really are being getting fed up 451 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 4: with it. So, you know, it also just might be 452 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:40,199 Speaker 4: the right place at the right time. I mean, you know, 453 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 4: that's what most acting careers are anyway. But maybe in 454 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 4: the cultural zeitgeist, it's just that time where people are like, 455 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 4: we're ready for this. 456 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 5: And this is what we want. 457 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 4: So maybe I'm just a lucky so and so by discovering, 458 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 4: you know, striking right at the right time, Well. 459 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 2: I have you here. 460 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 3: You have certainly peaked a number of people's interest in 461 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 3: who is the man behind this voice and this experience 462 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,520 Speaker 3: of how he got there, and we've gone deep into 463 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: that in the past. But before I let you go, 464 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 3: I want to let people know what you're up to 465 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 3: and how they can support you. 466 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 2: You're doing a podcast now. 467 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks Michael. 468 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 4: So, I mean I do have a podcast, but I 469 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 4: haven't recorded an episode in a while. It's the Clifton 470 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 4: Duncan Podcast, but I will resume shortly with some fantastic guests. 471 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,840 Speaker 4: I also have a sub stack aka newsletter called The 472 00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 4: State of the Arts, which I try to post weekly, 473 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 4: but you know, things are really busy lately, so it's 474 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 4: a bit more difficult. But my thoughts about just the 475 00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 4: state of our cultural institutions, and it's the intersection both 476 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 4: that and the podcast that the tagline is, you know, 477 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 4: the intersection of art, entertainment, culture and society. So it's 478 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 4: a bit of current events, bit of politics, but mostly 479 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 4: are and culture and how they intersect and and how 480 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 4: they influence society. I'm also on Twitter at Clifton A Duncan. 481 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 4: That's probably my biggest platform right now. I'm also on 482 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 4: Instagram at Clifton Duncan Online. And finally I have a 483 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 4: YouTube channel which is just my first and last name 484 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 4: Clifton Duncan. And you know you can find my podcast 485 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 4: on there some performance videos as well. 486 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,800 Speaker 5: Which I hope to post more of. 487 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 4: So that's that's my digital footprint and now people. 488 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 5: Can find me and find out more about me. 489 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 3: I'm very proud of what you've done, making lemons, making 490 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 3: lemonade out of the lemons that were dealt you. I 491 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,919 Speaker 3: told you when we spoke several years ago that you 492 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 3: are a very dangerous man, because the most dangerous man 493 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: is a black man with an independent mind in America today, 494 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,159 Speaker 3: and you have dared to be dangerous by being independent. 495 00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 3: You may not recall, but you and I share a 496 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 3: birthday of November tenth, so one of the love of 497 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 3: Thomas soul and a birthday of November tenth. I'm reminded 498 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 3: by looking at your Twitter page, Clifton Duncan. We look 499 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,920 Speaker 3: forward to seeing this production. We wish you the absolute best. 500 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 3: I'm sure some folks don't want to contribute to you 501 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 3: to your fundraiser for that to help you put this on, 502 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 3: and I will be as well. 503 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,160 Speaker 2: And good luck, my man, good luck. You're doing great 504 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 2: work and making a difference. 505 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 5: Oh Michael, thank you so much. 506 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 4: It's always a pleasure, Ramond the King of Ding, and 507 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 4: this other guy, Michael Barry. 508 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 3: My friend David Malsby, who's the executive director of Well, 509 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,720 Speaker 3: you know, because Ramone's making David malls be jokes because 510 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 3: they're big buddies, who's the executive director of Camp Hope, 511 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 3: and Ramone spends a lot of time with David. They 512 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 3: record the Camp Hope podcast together. Well, I laughed because 513 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 3: he's Ramone said, he's not your friend. I don't want 514 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 3: y'all think I'm laughing at David Malsby. I wouldn't do that. 515 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 3: Ramone's basically saying that that David doesn't like me, which 516 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 3: could be true. Could be true, because I'm you know, 517 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 3: I can be difficult to be around. But David Maallsby 518 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: sent me something recently that I really liked. It's Johnny 519 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: Carson and Ramona and I love Johnny Carson telling the 520 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 3: story of how he first met Red Skelton. And there's 521 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,640 Speaker 3: going to be a point to this at the end 522 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: of it. But for some of our older listeners, you 523 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 3: probably love Red Skelton, and I know I do. I 524 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 3: just thought it was a great story. So I'm constantly 525 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 3: consuming content and some of it I want to share 526 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:46,719 Speaker 3: with you. 527 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: So here was the story. 528 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 9: Let me tell you how I first met Red Skelton. 529 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 9: I may have told this a story on the air before, 530 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 9: But when I first came to California in nineteen fifty, 531 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 9: I was doing a show at KNXT, the local CBS 532 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 9: channel on Vine Street across in the Hollywood Ranch market, 533 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 9: and I had a five minute television show in the morning, 534 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 9: one from eight to fifty five to nine o'clock. Well, 535 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 9: if you take the half hour station identification time, it 536 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,640 Speaker 9: really comes down to four and a half minutes, right. 537 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 9: He was sponsored by a coffee from the Midwest called 538 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 9: Butternut Coffee. So by the time you take out the commercial, 539 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 9: I had three and a half minutes a show, and 540 00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:26,119 Speaker 9: I had a little too flat, and I had the 541 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 9: door on two saw horses. That was my desk, very 542 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 9: little money, so I would come in and do some 543 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 9: jokes on what was going on on the paper. And 544 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 9: one morning, just for the fun of it, I had 545 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 9: the stage manager just run in front of the camera. 546 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 9: Could even see who was I says I read. I said, 547 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 9: that was today's guest, Red Skelton, And we don't have 548 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 9: any more time to talk with him because of the 549 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 9: limits of our show. I got a call on the 550 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:54,640 Speaker 9: telephone from Red Skelton, who watches a lot of television. 551 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 9: He's a television fan and he's watching the local kid, 552 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 9: the local station near Los Angele do the show. He says, 553 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,520 Speaker 9: would you like me to come down and be on 554 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 9: the show? I said, You've got to be kidding. Next morning, 555 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 9: he gets in his car, he drives down from his home. 556 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,959 Speaker 9: Read Skeleton shows up at KNXT and I was been 557 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:13,919 Speaker 9: a fan of Red since. 558 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:14,439 Speaker 2: I was a kid. 559 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 6: He says, what would you like. 560 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 2: Me to do? And I said, well, if you don't 561 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 2: mind nothing. 562 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 9: He said, what do you mean. I said, I just 563 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,159 Speaker 9: want you to sit behind me and I'll do the 564 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,400 Speaker 9: show and you just sit there. 565 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,080 Speaker 2: He said, okay. 566 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 5: So I came on. 567 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,840 Speaker 9: I'd do my three minutes of jokes and so forth. 568 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 9: And at the end of the show, I turned around 569 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 9: and I said, and what's your name? And I said, 570 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,440 Speaker 9: and he would say I'm Red Skeleton, and I would 571 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,240 Speaker 9: say A likely story, and I say, thank you, We'll 572 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 9: see you tomorrow. This went on for about seven or 573 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 9: eight shows. This man got in the car, he drove down. 574 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 9: I didn't he let him for six days and the 575 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 9: final day we opened up the show and I found 576 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 9: the Kenny the other day at home. I still have 577 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 9: that little segment and I was bound and gagged. My 578 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 9: hands were tired, and the gagler and read the set 579 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 9: there and did the three and a half minutes, did 580 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 9: the commercial and everything. 581 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 2: That is the way we met. 582 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 9: Most times I ever had my life. Where was hanging 583 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 9: around CBS in the fifties when you were on the 584 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 9: air and all those great shows came out, playoffs in 585 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:18,280 Speaker 9: ninety and Bob Cross being our link letter and all 586 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 9: those great shows were working. 587 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 2: There was a lot of fun. 588 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's what You're a wonderful man to be around. 589 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: You taught me a lot. I stole a lot from you. 590 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 6: Yeah, oh yes, I did. 591 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 5: No. 592 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 10: No, it's like the students. They say, Johnny was with 593 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,400 Speaker 10: you at one time. You helped him gets I said, no, 594 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 10: nobody helps you get started. If you've got talent, they 595 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 10: can put you behind a brick wall, you'll come through. 596 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 7: You know. 597 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 6: That's so that's what you have. 598 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 3: And I know we play this on the fourth of 599 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 3: July every year, but we cannot talk about Red Skelton 600 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 3: without playing the Red Skeleton Pledge of Allegiance version that 601 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: is my absolute favorite, although Charlie Daniels is just be 602 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 3: a close second. So it's kind of like Paul Harvey, 603 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 3: it's timeless. 604 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 2: So here we go. 605 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 7: I remember a teacher that I had, now only I 606 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 7: went through the seventh grade. I went to the seventh grade. 607 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,480 Speaker 7: I left home when I was ten years old because 608 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 7: I was. 609 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,080 Speaker 6: Hungry, and I used to hear this. 610 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 7: I work in the summer and I go to school 611 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 7: in the winter. But I had this one teacher. It 612 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 7: was the principal of the Harrison School in Vincennes, Indiana. 613 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 7: To me, this was the greatest teacher, a real sage 614 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 7: of my time. Anyhow, he had such wisdom, and we 615 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 7: were all reciting the Pledge of Allegiance one day and 616 00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 7: he walked over, this little old teacher, mister Lasswell was 617 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 7: his name, mister Lastwell is. He says, I've been listening 618 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 7: to you boys and girls recite the Pledge of Allegiance 619 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 7: all semester, and it seems as though it's becoming monotonous 620 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 7: to you. If I may, may I recite it and 621 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,760 Speaker 7: try to explain to you the meaning of each word. 622 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 7: I me an individual, a committee of one. 623 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 11: Pledge, dedicate all of my worldly goods to give without 624 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 11: self pity, allegiance, my love, and my devotion. 625 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:30,640 Speaker 7: To the flag, our standard old glory, a symbol of freedom. 626 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 7: Wherever she waives, there's respect because your loyalty has given 627 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 7: her a dignity that shouts. 628 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 6: Freedom is everybody's job. United. 629 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 7: That means that we have all come together states, individual 630 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 7: communities that have united into forty eight great states. Forty 631 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 7: eight individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose, all 632 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,880 Speaker 7: divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to a common purpose. 633 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 7: And that's love for country and to the republic. Republic 634 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 7: a state in which sovereign power is invested in representatives 635 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 7: chosen by the people to govern, and government is the people, 636 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 7: and it's from the people. 637 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 6: To the leaders, not from the leaders to the people. 638 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 6: For which it. 639 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 12: Stands one nation, one nation, meaning so blessed by God, indivisible, 640 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 12: incapable of being divided. 641 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 6: With liberty, which is freedom, the. 642 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 7: Right of power to live one's own life without threats, fear, 643 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 7: or some sort of retaliation, and justice the principle are 644 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 7: qualities of dealing fairly with others, for all for all, 645 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 7: which means boys and girls, it's as much your country 646 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 7: as it is mine. And now, boys and girls, let 647 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 7: me hear you recite the Pledge of Allegiance. 648 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 6: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the. 649 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 7: United States of America and to the Republic for which 650 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 7: it stands, one nation, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. 651 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 7: Since I was a small boy, two states have been 652 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 7: added to our country, and two words have been added 653 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 7: to the Pledge of Allegiance Under God. 654 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 6: Wouldn't it be a pity 655 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,240 Speaker 7: If someone said that is a prayer, and that would 656 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 7: be eliminated from schools to