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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly

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Speaker 1: conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small

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Speaker 1: decisions we can make to become the best possible versions

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Speaker 1: of ourselves. I'm your host, Dr Joy hard and Bradford,

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Speaker 1: a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or

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Speaker 1: to find a therapist in your area, visit our website

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Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com. While I hope

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Speaker 1: you love listening to and learning from the podcast, it

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Speaker 1: is not meant to be a substitute for relationship with

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Speaker 1: a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me for session one four of the Therapy

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Speaker 1: for Black Girl's podcast. I hope you enjoyed some time

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Speaker 1: off last week and are continuing to take care of

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Speaker 1: yourself as we wrap up twenty nine. Something that continues

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Speaker 1: to come up in the work that I do with

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Speaker 1: my clients and even in my own therapy sessions is

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Speaker 1: the impact that racism has on both our mental and

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Speaker 1: physical health. I'm sure many of you have heard about

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Speaker 1: Gabrielle Union being fired from America's Got Talent in part

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Speaker 1: for being quote unquote too difficult and because the executives

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Speaker 1: had concerns about how often she changed her hair and

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Speaker 1: the styling of her hair, and let's not forget about

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Speaker 1: the complete circus that the NFL subjected Colin Kaepernick to

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. It often just feels like there's

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Speaker 1: a little to no escape. So I wanted to chat

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Speaker 1: with a colleague more about how racism does impact us

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Speaker 1: and how we can continue to take care of ourselves

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Speaker 1: and one another in the face of it. Today, I'm

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Speaker 1: joined by Dr Candice Nicole Hargons. Dr Hargons is an

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Speaker 1: award hard winning psychologists who specializes in healing racial trauma

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Speaker 1: and sex therapy. She's an assistant professor at the University

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Speaker 1: of Kentucky, where she studies sex, social justice, and leadership,

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Speaker 1: all with the Love ethic. She is also the founding

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Speaker 1: director of the Center for Healing Racial Trauma. Dr Harcogs

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Speaker 1: and I chatted about the work she's done and continues

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Speaker 1: to do to arm Black people with incredible resources to

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Speaker 1: work through racial trauma, how we can advocate for ourselves

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Speaker 1: and how that might look differently for each of us,

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Speaker 1: and she offered tips for dealing with racism at work

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Speaker 1: and school. If you hear something that resonates with you

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Speaker 1: while listening. Please be sure to share it with us

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Speaker 1: on social media using the hashtag tv G in session.

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Speaker 1: Here's our conversation. Thank you so much for joining us today,

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Speaker 1: Dr hard Going, Thank you for having me. I'm excited

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Speaker 1: to be here. Yes, I'm very excited. It's to chat.

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Speaker 1: So you will have heard in the intro, but Candice

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Speaker 1: and I went to Eugene eight together, so we are dogs.

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Speaker 1: So it's always great to chat with somebody who has

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Speaker 1: some of that common background. And I was really excited

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Speaker 1: to have you on the podcast to talk about the

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Speaker 1: work that you do with healing racial trauma. So can

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Speaker 1: you just tell me a little bit about how you

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Speaker 1: got into doing that kind of work. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was born a black woman, and indeed, but for real, no, seriously,

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Speaker 1: I grew up in predominantly white areas, like is a

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Speaker 1: story for a lot of black women, and over time,

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Speaker 1: what I learned was how to cope and tolerate racism

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Speaker 1: as opposed to how to resist it and heal from it.

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Speaker 1: And so when I became a psychologist, when I started training,

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Speaker 1: I was at Emory University Stress Clinic for one of

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Speaker 1: my training rotation years. And we learned meditation and bio

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Speaker 1: feedback and other stress reduction techniques. And it was around

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Speaker 1: the time where Mike Brown had been murdered, and they

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Speaker 1: had been an onslot of like police brutality and murderers

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Speaker 1: of the church in South Carolina, of the black clergy there,

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Speaker 1: and it was just like, I'm learning all these skills

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Speaker 1: and there needs to be a way that I can

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Speaker 1: apply them to something that resonates with my cultural experience.

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Speaker 1: So I started thinking about how to do that in

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Speaker 1: research and then in practice when I became a faculty

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Speaker 1: member at the University of Kentucky, because it's a very

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Speaker 1: white place, and although I feel like I have colleagues

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Speaker 1: and students who want to be about social justice, I

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Speaker 1: don't think we get answers to how we use these

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Speaker 1: skills in that way. So I started practicing in that

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Speaker 1: way and thinking about how I could take all that

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Speaker 1: I learned and apply it to healing racial trauma for

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Speaker 1: people of color. And from that just emerged the Center

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Speaker 1: for Healing Racial Trauma and the meditation I created and

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Speaker 1: other things. And that comes from working with a lot

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Speaker 1: of other really dope psychologists and therapists of or so

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Speaker 1: that's the short version of the story. Yeah. I love

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Speaker 1: that history, and I think you know, it brings to

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Speaker 1: mind this conversation that I've been following mostly on Twitter

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Speaker 1: of other people of color academics talking about not getting

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Speaker 1: support for the kind of projects that you're talking about. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: when we study the black community, or we study other

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Speaker 1: communities of color, there isn't always widespread support in terms

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Speaker 1: of like grants and scholarships and those kinds of things

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Speaker 1: to do this critically important work. Oh my goodness, yes,

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Speaker 1: I'm submitting an NIH grant now to do some healing

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Speaker 1: racial trauma work with meditation, So keeping my fingers crossed

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Speaker 1: for that. But it does feel frustrating to have to

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Speaker 1: go to organizations that are largely run by people who

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Speaker 1: don't look like me to ask them to fund research

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Speaker 1: about people that I care a lot about. Mm hmmm. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, okay, well, if y'll just get rid

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Speaker 1: of racism, then we don't necessarily have to all right,

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Speaker 1: but not happen exactly one, right, right, So then we

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Speaker 1: have to make sure that we are creating resources and

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Speaker 1: support to be able to take care of our people. Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So tell me more, Dr hogans about how you use

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Speaker 1: this word clinically, you know, like, how are you using

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Speaker 1: this with your clients? In sixteen, I created the Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter Meditation for Healing Racial Trauma. And I created

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Speaker 1: that one using It's a guided meditation, so using some

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Speaker 1: aspects of mindfulness, some aspects of affirmations that are specific

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Speaker 1: to the black experience, and some meta, which is loving

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Speaker 1: kindness meditation. So I put those three together, using research

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Speaker 1: about what meditation modalities might best fit black people, and

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Speaker 1: I sent it out to list serves full of therapists, psychologists,

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Speaker 1: counseling centers, colleagues, and private practice. And then I held

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Speaker 1: my breath because I was one feeling really vulnar morble

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Speaker 1: and nervous about creating something as an intervention, being a

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Speaker 1: pretty early career psychologist. But I recognized that I needed it,

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Speaker 1: and so it might be likely that other people would

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Speaker 1: need it. And I got and overwhelmingly positive respond people

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Speaker 1: emailing me saying, girl, I didn't know I was gonna

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Speaker 1: be crying in my office listening to this meditation after

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Speaker 1: you sent it down the list, sir, but I really

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Speaker 1: needed this, people saying, man, the affirmations you spoke to

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Speaker 1: really made a difference to how I see myself and

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Speaker 1: how I experienced the day to day. So knowing that

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Speaker 1: people listen to the meditation and that it really resonated

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Speaker 1: with them was a good first step for me, because

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Speaker 1: you know, you learn things and you apply your skills,

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Speaker 1: but oftentimes we don't get feedback from a national audience

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Speaker 1: about is this actually working? Is this something that you

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Speaker 1: want to use again? And getting that good feedback. And

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Speaker 1: I got some trolling to from some white people who

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Speaker 1: didn't want, you know, they didn't want us to be

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Speaker 1: healing from racism and being able to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: But for the most part, the response was good, and

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Speaker 1: so I started to think about, well, how else can

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Speaker 1: we use this? So as I was developing the Center

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Speaker 1: for Healing Racial Trauma, recognized that meditation would be useful,

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Speaker 1: deep breathing would be useful. But now we're expanding, so

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Speaker 1: I do individual therapy and group therapy as well just

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Speaker 1: talk therapy. But how do we incorporate music, how do

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Speaker 1: we incorporate storytelling? How do we incorporate these culturally relevant

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Speaker 1: ways of healing? Because we've known how to heal as

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Speaker 1: a group of people in the diaspora, for generations and

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Speaker 1: generations well before there was talk therapy. So I want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that I'm honoring the fact that we

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Speaker 1: have this legacy of healing and caring for each other

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Speaker 1: that goes beyond what I learned in predominantly white spaces,

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Speaker 1: but that there's some real value in talk therapy and

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Speaker 1: how to combine those things in a way that makes

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Speaker 1: people of color feel like, yeah, this is for me. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. So I want to

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Speaker 1: go back to something that you mentioned earlier about not

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Speaker 1: only healing from racism but also resisting it. I find

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Speaker 1: even in my own work, and you know, just even

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Speaker 1: talking to other colleagues, this is such a difficult balance

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Speaker 1: because it is so cumlative, you know. So it's like

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Speaker 1: you work with somebody to do one thing, and then

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Speaker 1: there's another breaking news story or something happens at the school,

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Speaker 1: or something happens in the workplace, and so it feels

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Speaker 1: like you can make some progress, and then something happens

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Speaker 1: and it almost undoes all the progress that you've done.

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Speaker 1: So can you talk to me more about like how

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Speaker 1: you can help clients to resist racism. Absolutely this touches

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Speaker 1: on something me and my brother were talking about so

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Speaker 1: a few days ago, the University of Kentucky shared the

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Speaker 1: story about me and my research, and my brother was like, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. I really appreciate what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: He's like, but I got a question. I'm like, what's up.

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Speaker 1: He's like, can you actually heal from racism if it

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Speaker 1: keeps coming? Like, if it keeps coming, how do you heal?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, man, that's a good question. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I don't help people heal, so that can

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Speaker 1: just heal and deal and keep letting racism accumulate in

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Speaker 1: your body and just deteriorate you. That's not the point.

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Speaker 1: The point is so that we can be well enough

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Speaker 1: to resist, so that when you experience a racist encounter,

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Speaker 1: that you can do something for yourself. If you're an

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Speaker 1: environment where other people aren't gonna stand up for you,

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Speaker 1: other people aren't going to contribute to your wellness, that

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Speaker 1: you have something that you can do, and then you

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Speaker 1: learn strategies from your wellness of how you can resist,

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Speaker 1: so how you can talk back, how you can fight back,

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Speaker 1: how you can dismantle these systems of oppression, because that's

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Speaker 1: a part of healing. I don't think healing comes without

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Speaker 1: resistance when it's we're talking about something like racism, and

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Speaker 1: so a part of that work is Okay, here the

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Speaker 1: ways to get your mind and embody to feel well

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Speaker 1: again so that you stop having these intrusive thoughts, or

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Speaker 1: you can breathe better again, or you don't feel like

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Speaker 1: your body get tight when you're around a group of

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Speaker 1: white people in the same way, here's some things we

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Speaker 1: can do for that. But then, how do you want

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Speaker 1: to intervene when someone microaggresses you. Let's talk about strategies

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Speaker 1: for how you can stop them and correct them and

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Speaker 1: let them know that that's not acceptable and it won't

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Speaker 1: happen again. How do you systemically intervene when you are

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Speaker 1: in a place where all the people on the wall

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Speaker 1: look like generations of white men, and just to be

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Speaker 1: in that place feels threatening. How do you go to administrators?

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Speaker 1: How do you bring people together to collectively resist. How

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Speaker 1: do you use your body in a way that feels

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Speaker 1: valuable and at the same time, how do you assess

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Speaker 1: your risk level and determine when it's good for you

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Speaker 1: to intervene in certain ways and not in others. So

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Speaker 1: using strategy and thinking about like, how how much this

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Speaker 1: work takes from us energetically. Let's me know, Okay, what

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Speaker 1: level of resistance are you ready for based on your wellness?

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Speaker 1: Because sometimes you just need to rest and that's the

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Speaker 1: best resistance you have. And sometimes you want to put

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Speaker 1: your body on the line and your money on the

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Speaker 1: line and your time on the line, and both of

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Speaker 1: those are valuable. So the resistance piece can look different.

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Speaker 1: It might be you using writing, you writing op eds.

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Speaker 1: It might be you doing something like this Dr Joy

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Speaker 1: with the podcast and giving people a platform to talk

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Speaker 1: about this. That's resistance. So I like to incorporate how

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Speaker 1: you do both. But you don't resist well when you're

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Speaker 1: not well. Uh so that is the first step is

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Speaker 1: just really looking at your overall wellness. Yeah. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: what are some of the strategies that you maybe can

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Speaker 1: share for people who may be in different places in

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Speaker 1: terms of like their ability to do this resistance work.

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Speaker 1: I have a ton of them. Okay, okay, So for

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Speaker 1: let me start with who I work with often, so students,

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Speaker 1: I work with a lot of students. They might be

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Speaker 1: graduate students, they might be undergraduate students, but for them

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Speaker 1: sometimes you might experience a professor racism. You might experience

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Speaker 1: other classmates racism, And the first step I always say

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Speaker 1: is to invite that person to change. So very often

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Speaker 1: you can give a person an opportunity to correct their behavior,

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Speaker 1: and because they want to be a decent human being,

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Speaker 1: they're willing to make that correction. So when we give

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Speaker 1: that opportunity, then they make the correction, and you repair

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Speaker 1: the rupture in the relationship just by them responding well

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Speaker 1: to the fact that they messed up, and here's an

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Speaker 1: opportunity from them correct themselves. But sometimes people don't. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: they double down in their racist gestures, in their words,

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Speaker 1: in their isolation of you and their degradation of you

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Speaker 1: as a racialized person. And the first thing I go

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Speaker 1: to is a reminder that we're the global when you're ready.

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Speaker 1: So we use words like minority, we use we use

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Speaker 1: those phrases when really thirteen to fourteen percent of the

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Speaker 1: population and the globe are European or white Americans. Everybody

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Speaker 1: else is a person of color. So when you recognize

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Speaker 1: that you're not in a minority, that you come from

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Speaker 1: a strong history of beautiful tradition, then that empowers you

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Speaker 1: to feel less isolated and less marginalized. And get connected

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Speaker 1: to your power, that you deserve whatever space you want

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Speaker 1: to take up, that you have a right to speak

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Speaker 1: back and to address the situation at the next level.

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Speaker 1: I think away racism works is to function by scaring

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Speaker 1: people out of resistance. So it's one reminder that you

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Speaker 1: deserve to resist. You have people who will have your

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Speaker 1: back if you choose to resist. So thinking about who

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Speaker 1: your networks are. If you have a group of faculty

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Speaker 1: and you have two people of color, and the faculty

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Speaker 1: reaching out to them and saying, hey, this has happened,

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Speaker 1: this is the way I want to address it. Can

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Speaker 1: I have your support? If you have other colleagues of

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Speaker 1: color and even white allies who say that they want

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Speaker 1: to be accomplices, then you reach out to them and say, hey,

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Speaker 1: I need your support because I'm going to take it

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Speaker 1: to the next level and watch people show up for you.

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Speaker 1: So inviting your colleagues, your allies, and your collaborators and

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Speaker 1: is the next level. After you've tried to address it

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Speaker 1: one on one, and that might look like them addressing

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Speaker 1: the person because you've already had a one on one

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Speaker 1: conversation and maybe they can receive correction better from someone else.

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Speaker 1: It can also look like you're documenting all the instances

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Speaker 1: where racism has occurred and then taking it to a

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Speaker 1: person who has more systemic power. It can look like

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Speaker 1: you protesting through creating signs or showing up to the classroom.

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Speaker 1: I put a post up about this a few weeks ago,

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Speaker 1: showing up to the classroom with signs that say racism

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Speaker 1: won't be lerated here. So if you wanted to take

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Speaker 1: your action to the next level, something more visible, it

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Speaker 1: can look like some of the students at the university

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Speaker 1: had a scheduled a meeting with the president, and some

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Speaker 1: students lock the president into a room and they're like,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna listen to us. This is important. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can go all the way up depending on what

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Speaker 1: you feel like you're willing to risk. So that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I talked to students about. Even

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Speaker 1: when you're thinking about protests where you are picketing or

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Speaker 1: you have signs and you're out and there's a presence

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Speaker 1: of people who might be against your protests, like how

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Speaker 1: to shift your body so that you're not at risk

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Speaker 1: of the physical attack, what to where, who to have

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Speaker 1: on your team, Always have a historian there a person

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Speaker 1: recording the scene who's not in the immediate line of action.

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Speaker 1: So those pieces are important. Storytelling using your voice, doing podcasts,

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Speaker 1: doing narratives, doing recordings and videos about your experience, all

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Speaker 1: of those are resistant strategies. And appreciate you sharing that,

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Speaker 1: Duncan Hargins, because I know we've talked before on the

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Speaker 1: podcast about what gets the most media attention, right or

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Speaker 1: like protests where people are like picketing or something like that,

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Speaker 1: But that isn't the only way that resistance and protests

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Speaker 1: can look, and so some people may not feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: doing that or may not feel like that is where

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Speaker 1: their gift lies, and can use these other strategies to

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Speaker 1: be able to resist as well. Absolutely, I like to

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Speaker 1: let people know that I'm an introvert, so being in

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Speaker 1: a protest in a march is probably not where you're

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Speaker 1: gonna find me because one I get physiologically way too

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Speaker 1: aroused in that situation. One time I was at a

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Speaker 1: Trayvon Martin rally in Atlanta. Girl, let me tell you,

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Speaker 1: within five to ten minutes of being there, I passed out.

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Speaker 1: That is yes, because there were so many people in

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Speaker 1: so much energy. And people talk about being an impass

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Speaker 1: and then you live that life. I absorb all of that,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my goodness, I'm not feeling

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Speaker 1: like I feel myself getting dizzy. Next thing I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm in an ambulance. So I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: not a resistant strategy that is fit from my constitution.

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Speaker 1: But what can I do well? I can write well,

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Speaker 1: so that's what I'll use, scholastic activism. I can speak well,

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Speaker 1: so I can do consultations with organizations. I can show

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Speaker 1: up and strategize with students. I can organize. Those are

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Speaker 1: the skills that I have. Those are the skills that

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Speaker 1: I use. But I recognize as an introvert, I can't

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Speaker 1: be in a large crowd of people and feel well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and those are I appreciate you sharing those very tangible

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Speaker 1: examples and experiences from your own life. Thing. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we often think about like, Okay, you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to show up and I want to do something,

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Speaker 1: but what is actually going to be the thing that

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Speaker 1: is most aligned with who I am? Absolutely? Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So I want to also talk with you, Dr harg

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Speaker 1: Ones about racism in the workplace. So we have so

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Speaker 1: many conversations about this in the community, people just really

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Speaker 1: really struggling with micro aggressions, macro aggressions just completely overt

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Speaker 1: expressions of racism. And you know, the thinking is often

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Speaker 1: you know, okay, make sure you're like documenting things and

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Speaker 1: talking to h R and you know, and some of

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Speaker 1: those things maybe for us if you may be effective,

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Speaker 1: but I think for a lot of people it's just

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Speaker 1: not enough. So what strategies do you have for people

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Speaker 1: who are working in workspaces where there are these instances

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Speaker 1: of racism and they don't feel supported by HR or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's often the case. We think HR

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Speaker 1: is HR works for the for the company, That's what

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Speaker 1: I know. So even when we report things, their responsibility

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Speaker 1: and especially if they're working in concert with the legal team,

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Speaker 1: is to protect the organization. And that means that organization

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Speaker 1: is gonna like lobby around whatever will look best in

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Speaker 1: PR more often than not, so they might make small

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Speaker 1: interventions if that looks good, but they also might not

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Speaker 1: do anything. And so just want to acknowledge and validate

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Speaker 1: that the experience of racism in the workplace and feeling

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Speaker 1: alone and like documentation isn't enough is real. You want

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Speaker 1: to have outside colleagues who don't work in that system,

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Speaker 1: who haven't been absorbed into the homeo stasis of that system,

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Speaker 1: that you can talk to about what's going on, preferably

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Speaker 1: people in the same field who you can go to

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Speaker 1: and they don't feel beholden to that organization. They're not

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Speaker 1: paid by that organization, nor they evaluated by that organization.

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Speaker 1: So you might have groups like, say, if you are

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Speaker 1: in medicine, instead of going to your hospital or your

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Speaker 1: doctor's office HR who might really have relationships with the

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Speaker 1: people who are microaggressing you or engaging in racist x,

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Speaker 1: you might go to the American Medical Association or whoever

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Speaker 1: the accrediting body is for the type of work you

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Speaker 1: do and make your report there, or the ethics council

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Speaker 1: for the organization or the field that you work in

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Speaker 1: and make your report there. But you also might need

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Speaker 1: to take it to the media. And a lot of

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Speaker 1: people feel concerned about what that means. So what you

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Speaker 1: have to risk be willing to assess is your risk

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Speaker 1: level and what you can tolerate. So I say there

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Speaker 1: are livelihood, life and luxury fears. So your life fears

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Speaker 1: are is it possible that someone could kill you? And

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Speaker 1: I don't say that lightly because we know people have

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Speaker 1: died being actively involved in the movement resisting for themselves.

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Speaker 1: That has happened. So if that is on the line

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Speaker 1: for you, then you might think about our people that

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Speaker 1: I love, or am I in danger of losing my life?

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Speaker 1: That's a life far. You also have livelihood fears, so

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Speaker 1: that might be the fear that you will lose your

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Speaker 1: job and lose the ability to provide resources for yourself

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Speaker 1: or for people you care about, and that, as we know,

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Speaker 1: has happened for people. I don't want to minimize the

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Speaker 1: fact that some organizations and age sees act like that.

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Speaker 1: They will take away your job, they will fire you,

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Speaker 1: they will find a way to create a scenario where

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Speaker 1: you want to leave. And then there are luxury fears,

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Speaker 1: and those are fears where well, maybe people will isolate

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Speaker 1: you at where you won't lose your job, but they

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Speaker 1: won't talk to you anymore, or people might be talking

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Speaker 1: when you walk into the room and stop talking, so

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Speaker 1: they make you feel really uncomfortable, but you're not at

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Speaker 1: risk of losing your life or your livelihood. So you

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Speaker 1: have to know at what level you feel comfortable intervening,

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Speaker 1: and there's no judgment for any of those levels. If

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Speaker 1: you're the only person providing resources for your family, maybe

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Speaker 1: now isn't the time where you want to resist in

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Speaker 1: a way that might cost you your job, and maybe

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Speaker 1: you'll strategize for how to do that once you have

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Speaker 1: enough saved to make that move. So I want to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that there are different levels at which you might engage,

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Speaker 1: but say you're ready to go to the next level.

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Speaker 1: You can use the media. So that might be writing

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Speaker 1: an op ed in the local or national news. That

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Speaker 1: might be going on the news with a report, speaking

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Speaker 1: to a reporter about what's been happening. You have to document,

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Speaker 1: like we talked about, but that's not enough, but it

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Speaker 1: is enough to create the case for your story. So

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Speaker 1: you can write it on your own blog, or you

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Speaker 1: can write it for a place like Medium or Huffington

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Speaker 1: Post or your local newspaper in detail what's been happening

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Speaker 1: and how you've been attempting to resolve the situation and

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Speaker 1: the ways people have made it really difficult. You can

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Speaker 1: speak with your therapist about how to use your mental

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Speaker 1: health to say I need time all from this environment.

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Speaker 1: So maybe you've had your anxiety exacerbated because every time

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Speaker 1: you walk into the building, you feel like your shoulders

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Speaker 1: get tight, you feel your heart racing, you feel faint,

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Speaker 1: you feel exhausted, and it's just exacerbating whatever symptomology you see.

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Speaker 1: That might be a way where you resist by saying

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna come here anymore until this environment creates

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Speaker 1: for me a space that allows me to function. Well,

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Speaker 1: those are a few of things samples that I give people,

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Speaker 1: but we talk through what the unique experiences are that

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Speaker 1: they're going through. Sometimes it's a way that you can

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Speaker 1: bring other colleagues on, but oftentimes it's not, and you

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Speaker 1: need to go through outside channels. You can contact your

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Speaker 1: local double A c P or Urban League or Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter chapter or other agencies that are about social

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Speaker 1: justice and have them come in and do workshops or

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Speaker 1: consulting so that you don't have to be the one

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Speaker 1: to do the emotional labor. I know that gets put

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Speaker 1: on us a lot, and you can't be the one

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Speaker 1: being microaggressed and being targeted in also trying to do

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Speaker 1: the emotional labor of educating everyone, especially if that's not

433
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: even your specialization. So those are some of the strategies

434
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 1: that you can use for resisting. Yeah, those are great strategies, targers.

435
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: I had not thought about the idea of like getting

436
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: your larger accrediting bodies involved as opposed to going through

437
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: you know, the h R directly in your company. I

438
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 1: bet that that is a far more effective strategy than

439
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: talking you your HR in house. Then it depends on

440
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 1: who's in your HR, right, But oftentimes HR they have

441
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,360
Speaker 1: buy into the organization. They want to keep their jobs too, right,

442
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: right of course, of course, so something else that comes up.

443
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: And I definitely think about this a lot with my

444
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: own kids and talking about racism in schools and write

445
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,840
Speaker 1: the deep breath because you have to take and just

446
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,719
Speaker 1: thinking about it. I think it was recently Procter and Gamble,

447
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: I believe, had the commercial about like the talk that

448
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: black people have to have with their children and thinking

449
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,920
Speaker 1: about like how do you navigate this? Do you have

450
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,199
Speaker 1: any tips for parents helping kids to deal with like

451
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:45,360
Speaker 1: racist acts at school? Yeah? M hmm. That hits home

452
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 1: for me in a new way because I'm a new mom.

453
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And I and I have been thinking about

454
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: this because my husband and I are looking at daycare

455
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 1: facilities three schools, and you know, you gotta get on

456
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,399
Speaker 1: the list all in advance for stuff like that, But

457
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 1: that means I also have to interview these places. And

458
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: I'm very mindful now as we're thinking about who we

459
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 1: want to interview about what does the faculty look like,

460
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: who does this look like? You know, are they trained

461
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: if they don't look like us, to treat my son

462
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: as a human being and recognized his brilliance, respect him,

463
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,880
Speaker 1: all of those things. So the first thing you start

464
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 1: with is your racial socialization at home. You affirm the

465
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: beauty of their blackness, the brilliance of their blackness, with

466
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: our history history that predates slavery, with the amazing people

467
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: who are currently black and doing amazing things. You want

468
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,239
Speaker 1: to reinforce that there's value in a black identity and

469
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,639
Speaker 1: that there are a number of ways to be black,

470
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 1: that it doesn't have to look just one way, so

471
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,959
Speaker 1: that the internalized racism and external racism, both of those

472
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 1: messages aren't impacting your your kids at school, because we've

473
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: got kids who think that to be smart is not

474
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: to be black, when we know that's not true, and

475
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 1: we've got kids who think the other side of it

476
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: that all black kids who are in elite schools are

477
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: there on scholarship or are there because of affirmative action,

478
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: and we know that's not the case. So racial socialization

479
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:18,119
Speaker 1: is that process where you share the good parts about

480
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: being who they are. And because when they're reinforced with

481
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: a strong racial identity, the impact of racism, according to

482
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,720
Speaker 1: the research, is less severe. That's one preventative gesture before

483
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: they even get there. So the books that you have

484
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: at home have people of color in them doing amazing things,

485
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: the people that you surround them with, the organizations that

486
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: your kids are a part of that are extracurricular, all

487
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: of those should be filled with a variety of ways

488
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: to be black, or to be a person of color,

489
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: whatever your identity is. And then you talk to your

490
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: school setting really thought full and thorough standards about what

491
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,359
Speaker 1: it means to treat your child well. Because respect is

492
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 1: culturally defined construct so what we mean when we say

493
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: respect might be different than what somebody else means when

494
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 1: they say respect. So letting them know what does it

495
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 1: mean to respect your child, what does it mean to

496
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: respect your race, what does it mean to be proud,

497
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: what does it mean to be empathic? And because there's

498
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: a lot of research on this, you can find these

499
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: different organizations who talk about Okay, this is what your

500
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: curriculum should look like. If you wanted to really impress

501
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: upon all kids, not just the kids of color, that

502
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:37,359
Speaker 1: people of color are valuable and worthy and amazing, you

503
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: want to ask your school to to diversify their books,

504
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 1: to diversify their staff, if they need to to diversify

505
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 1: their faculty. It shouldn't be that all the faculty and

506
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: administrators are white people and all of the maintenance staff

507
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: and cafeteria staff or people of color. And if that

508
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 1: is the case, then something about external or systemic racism

509
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: created that to be the way. So letting them know

510
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: what you'd like to see, of course, visiting your kids school,

511
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: sitting in on class sessions, letting them know what behaviors

512
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: are acceptable, culturally relevant, ways of showing love and care.

513
00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: All of those messages are important, so that your kids know,

514
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 1: and then your teachers and your administrators know what you'll

515
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 1: be looking for. That's the way I've been thinking about it,

516
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 1: and I've been doing some consulting with different school systems

517
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: here in my area in Kentucky around how they can

518
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: have courageous conversations around race, how they can rethink their

519
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 1: diversity counsels if they have one, or how they can

520
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: get other parents involved in doing this work so that

521
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 1: the bird isn't on only the people of color to

522
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: do this, the teachers of color, the one or two

523
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: parents of color. That's the starting point. M. Yeah, and

524
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: you know, I have been encouraged to see that there

525
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: are so many like book lists that are coming out

526
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: about you know, books that feature black kids and stories

527
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,240
Speaker 1: about all kinds of different things, right, because it is

528
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: important for kids to be able to see themselves reflected

529
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 1: in the kind of literature that they're actually will see

530
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: it too. Yes, yes, I definitely will be including all

531
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 1: of those in the show notes so that if people

532
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: are looking for those books, that they can find all

533
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: of those things as well. Absolutely so, Doctor hard Guns,

534
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: can you tell me more about the center that you

535
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: just opened? Um? Tell me, um, Like what kind of

536
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: work are you going to be doing there? Like what

537
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: kinds of services are you going to be offering? Yes?

538
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: So we just open in September. It's been in the

539
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,640
Speaker 1: words for about a year and a half and right

540
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: now we do individual therapy, So I see clients all

541
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: over the state of Kentucky, and I use a digital

542
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: platform to do that, or I see them in my office,

543
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: but mostly because a lot of people don't live in Lexington,

544
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: I'll see them digitally. But we also will start when

545
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 1: the physical center opens the group therapy, and our groups

546
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: might include talk therapy, but also we've got some drumming

547
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: and drum circles coming sound therapy. So I don't know

548
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 1: if you guys have heard of like a sound bath,

549
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,479
Speaker 1: and yes, that meditative state that it puts you in

550
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: and an ability to just like reduce your heart rate

551
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: and relax. So using sound bass, using storytelling, and hip hop,

552
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: those are some of the therapeutic modalities. So I have

553
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: been a poet all of my life, like as far

554
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: back as I can remember writing, I've been writing poetry

555
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: and using that as a healing modality, to tell stories,

556
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: to to write poems. So all of those things in

557
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: connection with racial trauma. One of the workshops we have

558
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: coming up is called therapy, and we're gonna be talking

559
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 1: with black women. This will be during Black History Month

560
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 1: about our relationship with our hair and our skin tone

561
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: and how internalized racism has created all these messages around

562
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: how we see ourselves and our beauty and what those

563
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 1: standards are and how to heal from and decolonize our

564
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: curls and our coils and our kinks. So that's one

565
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: of the outreach components where therapy isn't just like I

566
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: have a one on one relationship with you, but it's

567
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: sometimes I have a relationship with my community or a

568
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: relationship with members at this church, and we all come

569
00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: together and do things that are healing. So that's one

570
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 1: side of it. That's the intervention side. The prevention side

571
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: of it is our organization does consulting, workshops, and training

572
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: and sometimes retreats with organizations, churches, medical professionals, mental health

573
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: professionals around anti racism. So we have courses on cultivating

574
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: an anti racist mindset or how to have courageous conversations

575
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: about race or healing racial trauma. And we've done these

576
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 1: nationally and internationally for years, but now I'm just housing

577
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: it under the umbrella of the Center for Healing Racial Trauma.

578
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: So there's a prevention side, which is those consulting and

579
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: training and workshop type of things, and then there's the

580
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: intervention side, which is like the therapy one on one

581
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: talk therapy, group therapy, and some of the sound and

582
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: creative therapies. I love it. I'm really looking forward to

583
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: seeing all of the great work that is going to

584
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: come out of your sensor in the years. Thank you.

585
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 1: It's going to be amazing. So what resources that you have,

586
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: Dr Hardgings for anybody who wants to maybe read more

587
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: about some of the things that you've talked to are

588
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: some resources that you find yourself suggesting to your clients frequently.

589
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: So another person who is u g A affiliated that

590
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: you might know as well as Annaly Sing, Dr Annaly

591
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: Sing just created Yeah, she just created the Racial Healing Handbook.

592
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: So I've been using that. Actually, my colleagues and I

593
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: are walking through that together so that we can make

594
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,920
Speaker 1: sure that as we're doing this healing racial trauma work

595
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 1: and this social justice work, that we are being mindful

596
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: of our own need for healing and continued to work

597
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: in that area. So her Racial Healing Handbook is one

598
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 1: I recommend and it's basically a workbook that you can

599
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: go through over a number of months where you unpack

600
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,959
Speaker 1: some of the messages you received about your race and

601
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: how you develop your racial identity and what makes you

602
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: proud about being a person of color, a black person,

603
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 1: All of those pieces, so I use that. It's really accessible.

604
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,319
Speaker 1: You can read it, anybody can read it. The meditations

605
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:25,320
Speaker 1: are a resource. You can find those on the Center

606
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: for Healing Trauma website at Center for Healing Racial Trauma

607
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: dot com or my Dr kendis Nicole dot com website.

608
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: So it's the Black Lives Matter meditation for healing racial

609
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 1: trauma that usually works best when you've experienced an encounter

610
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: that feels like a microaggression or a more overt racial harassment,

611
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 1: and you give yourself about seventeen to twenty minutes to

612
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 1: listen to the meditation and it kind of walks your

613
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: body through relaxation and affirmation. So using that is a strategy.

614
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: And I recently did a research study to determine the

615
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: empirical value of it, and so I'm looking forward to

616
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 1: hopefully having that paper come out. But we found that

617
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 1: people generally feel better physiologically and mentally when they listen

618
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: to the meditation, so that's awesome. If you like reading

619
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,279
Speaker 1: research articles, Dr Helen Neville has some amazing articles on

620
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,520
Speaker 1: the cost of racism for people of color. Dr Jioni

621
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: Lewis she has some amazing work on the intersection between

622
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: sexism and racism for black women in particular, because as

623
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 1: we know, intersectionality is real. It's not just racism and

624
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: that's it, but it might be racism and age and

625
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 1: body size and ability, all of those things intersecting that

626
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: are just cumulatively wearing us out. So she has some

627
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 1: really good work in that area. If you're a white person,

628
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: there is a journal called Becoming Anti Racist. You can

629
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: look that one up. It's l Glennise Pike. So many

630
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 1: books that I love reading people of color writing about racism.

631
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: So I usually highlight people of color who have written

632
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 1: about it. Not to say that white people don't do

633
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: a good job, but I think that they get enough pressed.

634
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: So I want to highlight the people that I know

635
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 1: who are black women in particular, were people of color

636
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,080
Speaker 1: in general who write about this, and those are some

637
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,080
Speaker 1: of my face perfect and we will definitely be including

638
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 1: all of those in the show notes. So you've already

639
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: given us your website, Can you say it for us

640
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: one more time so we can make sure we get

641
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: that accurately. Yes, it's www. Center for Healing Racial Trauma

642
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 1: dot com or Dr Candice Nicole dot com. And then

643
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: you can find Dr candicson Nicole l on social media

644
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 1: on Facebook and Instagram. I have a Twitter, but I'm

645
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: never on Twitter, so so don't try to find her

646
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: on Twitter, y'all just following Instagram right. Thank you so much.

647
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate all this great information that you share

648
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 1: with us today that candas. I appreciate you for having me.

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Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure and I was just excited that

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00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: I got a chance to connect with you, my u

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00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:10,439
Speaker 1: G A sister. Oh yes, yes, absolutely, thank you so much.

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00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 1: I'm so glad Dr Hargans was able to share her

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00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: expertise with us today. To find out more information about

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00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: her and her practice and the resources that she shared,

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00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,240
Speaker 1: be sure to check out the show notes at Therapy

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00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 1: for Black Girls dot com slash Session one, and please

657
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 1: remember to share this episode with two people in your circle,

658
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,839
Speaker 1: and don't forget to share your takeaways with us either

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00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: on Twitter or in your I G stories using the

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00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 1: hashtag tv G in session. If you're searching for a

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00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: therapist in your area, be sure to check out the

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00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: therapist directory at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash directory.

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00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: And if you want to continue digging into this topic

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00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 1: and meet some other sisters in your area. Come on

665
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: over and join us in the Yellow Couch Collective, where

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00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: we take a deeper dive into the topics from the

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00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: podcast and just about everything else. You can join us

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00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash y c C.

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00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,479
Speaker 1: Thank y'all so much for joining me again this week.

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Speaker 1: I look forward to continuing this conversation with you all

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00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: real soon. Take it care,