WEBVTT - How Gene Patents Work 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.560 from House toff works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.959 the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. 0:00:21.880 --> 0:00:26.079 This is William Shatner. You have the sound of a 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:32.120 man who sounds like he's leaving town. I do. It 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.320 is a weekend. Yeah, I'm leaving town too. Nice are 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:38.040 you going? I'm going to see my sister and my 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.159 two nieces. My brother in law is not there, but 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.559 in Jacksonville, North Carolina. Very nice at the U. S. 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.960 Marine Corps bas very nice. You're gonna go to the 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.800 p X Campbell of June. I think, uh, sure, I'll 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:55.480 go to the p X. Should get some stuff there. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.760 It's all like in a military discount some TAMO and 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.040 m O. Just walk like you're supposed to be in there, 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.560 you know, maybe make eye contact with everybody, try to 0:01:04.600 --> 0:01:07.000 wither him and they'll be like, oh, he's a soldier. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:10.040 I always stand out like a swart thomb on the 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:14.759 military basis. You're like, this is a fat, hairy guy. Yeah, 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:17.800 why is he here? And should I kill him, So 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:20.399 you're excited. Yeah, I haven't seen my sister in a while. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.960 What about you? What you got going on? Uh? We 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.520 are going to New York, you me and I. Um 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:31.560 for friends wedding. Two friends wedding, two male friends wedding. Yeah, 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:35.120 awesome and it's official now. Congratulations to those guys. Yeah, 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.560 Mitch and Patrick, who are friends on the Facebook page, 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:40.920 tried to help them out. They were like in a 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.200 contest for crighton barrel wedding two steaks. Yeah, and a 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:47.360 lot of people showed up and bumped them from like 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.080 number twenty something. They're like number one for a little 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.160 while and then they just got crushed. So hats off 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.080 to everybody on our Facebook page who helped them out. 0:01:55.120 --> 0:02:00.280 They are very grateful and to them. Yes me, best 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:04.000 wishes from stuff you should know from Mitch Patrick. Absolutely. Okay, 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.200 So Chuck, you want to get down to this, Yes, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:15.520 how Jeane Simmons works Origen shall it Jene Cisco Gene 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.400 croupa well and with gene Gene pattents really is what 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.920 we're talking about, right, So it's interesting, I have I agree, 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:28.200 interesting and terrifying. Um. And by the way, I just 0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:30.280 want to go ahead and say that there is a 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.839 documentary companion documentary that's required viewing for this one. It's 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.720 called The Corporation. Uh, if you have Netflix, it's streaming 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.959 on Netflix. You can also order the DVD or whatever. 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.160 But you could watch it literally right the second. It's 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:47.120 probably all over YouTube too. It's like one of those docs, 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.160 very well made, good stuff. It touches on a lot 0:02:50.200 --> 0:02:53.560 of stuff in here and just goes into greater depth. 0:02:53.760 --> 0:02:55.840 So I say, check out The Corporation. It's a good 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.120 documentary either way. Um. But uh, let me let me 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.200 give you a little story here. There is a condition. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.960 It can be congenital. It can actually be acquired strangely enough, 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:10.800 although I didn't find out how. But it's called UM 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:15.680 growth hormone deficiency, right, okay, And basically it just means 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:20.040 that you are short, you're smaller in stature UM then 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.400 is average. Maybe you're smaller than the rest of your 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.600 family members, who knows, but the the point is that 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:32.200 your pituitary glands aren't producing enough growth hormone. Like manuel Lewis, 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.960 I imagine that he has some sort of growth hormone deficiency. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:39.720 I think it's an umbrella term, but yes, UM, the 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.560 good thing is that it's treatable, and it's been treatable 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.320 for a while. And we knew for a very long 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:47.640 time where to get the treatment, where to get human 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.680 growth hormone, and that was extracting it from the pituitary 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:55.960 glands of cadavers. Up until the seventies, if you had 0:03:56.040 --> 0:03:59.520 growth hormone deficiency and you were given injections, the stuff 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:02.920 they were in acting you with was extracted from cadaver's 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:06.440 pituitary glands. But it was still good to go. It was. 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.160 It worked, yeah, um, but it was very very expensive. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:12.960 I mean, the extraction process, getting your hands on a 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.200 dead body. I mean, there's a lot of factors involved. Uh. 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.640 And then in in the until the nineteen eighties when 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.640 a company called Novo Nordisk got a patent for a 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:28.599 product called nano nanor one nano one. Yeah, it's just 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:31.720 a mouthful that it had created in the nineteen seventy three, 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:33.880 but it didn't get a patent until nineteen two. Couldn't 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.520 they just call it go juice? Yeah, you know, or 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:40.960 grow juice that be that would be much more appropriate, right, Okay, 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:43.480 we'll figure that out later. So the history to me 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:45.360 it was is one of the most interesting parts here. 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.240 And we'll get to nineteen eight two, which was a 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:51.560 landmark here in this field. But let's back up, Josh, Yes, 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:54.240 let's use the way back machine because we haven't done that. Now, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:05:00.200 there's a cob women here there. It's musty. Uh. He's 0:05:00.200 --> 0:05:03.279 been eating cheese too. You know. There's like rappers here 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.840 process cheese. Interesting. Uh, So let's go back in time. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.080 There were three three rulings over the years, starting in 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:12.760 eighteen fifty three that sort of lead to what we're 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.039 talking about, but they weren't consistent. They sort of flip 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.920 flopped on the subject. Uh. In eighteen fifty three, Robert 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:23.120 Morse of the Telegraph fame was initially denied his patent 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:27.600 because part of it involved electromagnetism, a key part of it, 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:32.200 and they said he can't fatten electromagnetism. No, why, silly boy, 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.320 Because it's a principle of nature. Right. It's like, uh, 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.760 my device uses that cloud right there, so I'm gonna 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:42.360 patent that cloud. Like you can't patent a cloud. Well, 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.719 what about the process that makes clouds? No, you can't. 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:48.760 It's nature, that's natural. You can't patent nature. And this 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:50.919 is back when the U. S. Patent Office was the 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.880 god fearing US Patent Office and they knew what to 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.240 issue patents for and whatnot to not the crazy cuckoo 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:01.240 mixed up patent office of today. That's right where you 0:06:01.279 --> 0:06:06.560 can patent thoughts and dreams. I'm patenting you chuck actually 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:09.400 on that already and you owe me to indollars for 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:14.040 you and saying that, uh so. Following that the second 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:18.320 ruling in nineteen twelve, another court ruled that you could 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.479 patent adrenaline because it's a distilled type of adrenaline that 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.080 was treated in a lab outside the body and it 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:29.600 was different than the natural adrenaline inside the body. Then, 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:33.200 after World War Two, another ruling reversed it again in 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:36.880 the Supreme Supreme Court said, I'm sorry, you cannot patent 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:42.280 this mixture of bacteria that you're making in your lab 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.200 right even doesn't exist in nature. And this would later 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.160 become a real touchstone in this argument, like does this 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:53.400 exist in nature? Like that cloud right there? Uh you, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.679 it's natural. You can't patent it, But could you patent 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:00.320 a process or a cloud that you could create in 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.039 the lab that nature doesn't produce? Him? Maybe isn't capable 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.200 of producing. That's where it gets Harry. Yeah. Another big 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.280 step forward was the Plant Patent Act of nineteen thirty 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:14.320 thanks to a dude to name Luther Burbank, which is 0:07:14.320 --> 0:07:18.040 a pretty rocking name. I think that's my new hotel name, 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.880 Luther Burbank. It's pretty cool for a you know, early 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:25.720 twentieth century white dude. Uh. He was a botanist and 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.200 he created more than eight hundred strains and varieties of plants, 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:34.360 including the Shasta daisy, the fire poppy, and the white BlackBerry. 0:07:34.560 --> 0:07:37.000 I'm a fan of the Shasta daisy. Yeah. Yeah, Well 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.080 you have Luther Burbank. Thank I see him wearing four 0:07:40.120 --> 0:07:47.160 finger rings, that says luth Yeah. Uh so he was obviously, 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:51.000 uh you know, pretty inspired to create plants. And they said, 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.360 you know what, that's pretty neto that you can do 0:07:53.400 --> 0:07:55.720 all this stuff, so you should be allowed to We're 0:07:55.720 --> 0:08:00.640 gonna pass this Plant Act. But don't even try two 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:05.160 patent bacteria again. There's a problem with bacteria that the 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:10.840 court has always traditionally disallowed. Apparently they consider bacteria more 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:15.400 natural life than a hybrid plant. It's true because of 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:20.480 the next case and that plant, that plant patent act um. Really, 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.280 that's that is a big deal, even just beyond like 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:25.760 what we're talking about, and we'll get to that later, 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:30.560 like what effects that that has had? Yeah? Um. And 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:34.640 then there's also a Plant Protection Act of nineteen seventy 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.600 that also allowed patents as well, but again this allowed bacteria. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:44.640 Bacteria keeps getting kicked around, kicked around, kicked around until right, 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:51.800 was that a Diamond v. Chakrabarty. Yes, Ananda Chakrabarty worked 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:55.439 for GE developed a bacterium that could break down crude 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.640 oil and said, hey, we should use this for oil spills. 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:01.920 Very useful, great idea. Uh, the Court of Customs and 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:06.520 Patent Appeals, I'm sorry, it was initially rejected. And then 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:11.280 the Customs and Patent Appeals office overturned that, saying that 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.760 the fact that it's alive has no significant purpose in 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.439 our patent office. Right. And also you left out that 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.240 that chucker body um created a bacteria that didn't exist 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.600 in nature. Oh, it was. It was brand new, it 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.400 was recombinant. He made it himself. That's pretty cool, yes, 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.600 but then the bacteria. Uh. The Supreme Court then argued 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.560 the case and in nineteen eighty Warren Burger wrote that 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.439 whoever invents, and this is very key moving forward, whoever 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:43.439 invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacturer, 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:47.559 or and this is the key, composition of matter or 0:09:47.600 --> 0:09:50.080 any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent, 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.360 therefore subject to the blah blah blah blah blah if 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.480 some fact though, but composition matters the key three words there, Right, 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:01.880 There's a big difference between a product of nature or 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:05.120 a principle of nature and the composition of matter, which 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:09.120 could be anything from you know, using two types of 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:13.000 metal to create an alloy, or creating two types of 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.920 DNA to create yeah, something like insulin um. And by 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:21.000 the way, diamond and diamond v chakra body is diamond. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:24.839 Was the the head of the patent's office. So when 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:27.280 you fought against it, yeah, he he sued him to 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:29.440 be like, no, yeah, this is this is wrong. When'd 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.920 you feel like you're in trouble if the if the 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.880 head of the patents office was suing you, like, it 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.720 just seems worse, you know. Buton and that changed everything. 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.440 Um within two years, the first patent for UM, the 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.760 first gene patent, what we would call a gene patent 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:51.000 UM was issued to the University of California. Yeah, for 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:59.600 UM a hormone engineered too. I guess for milk production, 0:11:00.000 --> 0:11:02.560 I'm not sure. And it was involved in breast cancer treatment, 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.280 but I don't know exactly what it did. I got 0:11:04.320 --> 0:11:08.280 you UM. And then the same year insulin was patented 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.760 We're comminentt insulin, which was huge also. So that was 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.120 the same year that Novo nor Disc got its patent 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:24.120 for um nannermant nan normandy, the human growth hormone product. Yeah, 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:28.360 so UM that really just kind of opened up the floodgate. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.480 Chakra body changed everything, and that that shows up in 0:11:32.520 --> 0:11:34.959 the corporation too. It's pretty interesting how they talked about 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:40.320 that UM and but really I guess as far as 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:45.640 gene patents go, the real moment when everything changed was 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.959 in the late nineties when this little known group at 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:53.120 the time popped up UH in the media and said, hey, 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:57.920 we're almost finished entirely mapping the human genome. And the 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:03.360 U S Patent Office workers went and there's a flood 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:09.200 of patent requests. Right, one was for Pandora radio. Wasn't 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:12.199 that based on that? The Music Genome project, what's it 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.719 I think so. I would imagine if that's what they 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.320 called it or inspired by it. UM. But yeah, everyone 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.280 lined up all the time. It's like, oh, pattent this patent. 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:22.559 That they'd be like, I heard about this GENO, want 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:24.320 to patent it. I want to pattent this one. And 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.679 so they were inundated with it. And so in two 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.840 thousand one, the US Patent and Trademark Office the US 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:34.360 p t O UM issued new guidelines saying, Okay, yes, 0:12:34.480 --> 0:12:36.800 anybody can apply for a patent, but you have to 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.120 know what you're talking about. You have to know you 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:41.440 have to know what the gene does, or you have 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:45.040 to have come up with some process UM using this gene. 0:12:45.440 --> 0:12:49.720 There's there's there. There has to be criteria everybody, everybody. Yeah, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:54.479 there has to be criteria UM. And that definitely UM 0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:57.959 allowed some of the high there was a high water 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.800 mark in the the tie ebbed a little bit, a 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:06.240 little bit. But currently I believe, which was the initial 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:12.040 stat there are three to five thousand human gene patents 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.800 right now in the US alone. Yeah, forty seven thousand 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:23.400 involving inventions like equipment involving genetic material or insulin is 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.560 another example. Yeah, that's an invention using genetic material. But 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.720 there are more than three million on file as applicants. Yeah, 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:36.360 like that impending shirt ye so um, and that's with 0:13:36.920 --> 0:13:40.920 the the tide ebbing. I hope, I hope it's ebbing. 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.760 And just in the United States again, isn't it? Yeah, 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.040 in the United States, Um, and there's plenty in Europe 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.000 and Japan. It's basically Europe, Japan, and the US are 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.319 the leaders in issuing patents for this kind of stuff. 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.200 Like basically, if you want to push the rest of 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.199 the world around, you go get a patent at one 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:05.000 of one of these areas patent offices. So uh, well, 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:09.640 let's talk specifically about the US, right, Um, let's talk patents. Yeah, 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:11.560 if you want to get a patent, you have to 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.280 you have to meet some criteria. Um. It doesn't matter 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:17.360 what the patents for, whether it's for the dippie bird 0:14:17.600 --> 0:14:22.320 or you know, for human growth hormone. Um. And so 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:26.000 for any any invention to get a patent to be 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.480 a proof for a patent, um it has to meet 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.840 for criteria. Right, has to be useful, it has to 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:37.360 be non obvious, right, Like it can't be a shoe string. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.480 I don't know, I would have non what would an 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:46.760 obvious one be? A wonder an obvious invention would be 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.920 um man, I don't know. I'm just curious. Maybe using 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:59.880 peppermint too too, um fight bad breath? Maybe obvious. Yeah, 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.880 it's obvious. Anybody can do that. You can't patent that. 0:15:02.920 --> 0:15:05.480 There you go, there's air non obvious example. Um. It 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:09.080 has to be novel, right, um. And it has to 0:15:09.920 --> 0:15:13.240 meet the enablement criterion, which is a big deal. And 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.560 this is pretty much the whole reason patents exist. One 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:18.760 of the big reasons. It's got to have detail. It 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.920 can't be just a big, broad, esoteric thing. It's got 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:25.160 to be detailed enough where someone in that field can 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.440 figure it out and use it, right, And this is 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.040 this is one of the major reasons the patent office exists. 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:34.920 It's to say, Okay, thank you for sharing your findings 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:36.440 with the rest of the world. We're gonna give you 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:41.520 twenty years of exclusivity. But in return, you're you're being 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.400 totally transparent. Here's all of the processes, here's all the notes, 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:48.400 here's anything that anybody working in your field can can 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:51.960 look at and use to build upon your research, or 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.000 they pay you well, but can they get it and 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:58.000 change it enough to where it doesn't You can't. And 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.480 those are called patent trolls and a only they're a 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.320 big problem right now. They're they're towarding technology. I think 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.080 tech stuff did something on patent trolls recently. Interesting. Yeah. Um, 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.080 so you if you are issued a patent, you get 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:15.920 twenty years of exclusivity. Nobody can use it, uh um, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:19.320 market it, sell it anything as you do with your 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:22.360 invention or process unless they pay you. They have to 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.840 go through you, and you license it and reap the benefits, right, Yeah. 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.800 And the reason it was such a mad rush when 0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:31.360 the genome project was first completed because obviously the first 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:34.720 person to invent something gets the patent. So if you 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.240 can prove that, then that's yours for twenty years. So 0:16:37.520 --> 0:16:40.520 well that's based on the first to invent principle. Yeah, 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.920 right exactly, So you have to prove that and then 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.320 after that you've got it for twenty years. And everyone 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.400 was in a big rush to be the first with 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.720 these gene patents. Have you heard the story of um 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.840 Alexander Graham Bell and Elijah what was his name? Do 0:16:56.960 --> 0:16:59.240 you mean? The real guy? He would invented the telephone? Yeah, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.680 what's his name? Oh? Was that the case? I knew 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:04.159 there was some stink there, but I wasn't sure. Um, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:09.639 Elijah Gray. Apparently Elijah Gray invented a telephone that looked 0:17:09.760 --> 0:17:14.120 and worked way way more like the ones we used today, 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.960 I should say, the ones we used in the used 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.760 in the seventies and eighties. Right. It wasn't stealth phone, 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.320 but you know, the kind of rotary dial all that. Um. 0:17:23.359 --> 0:17:27.439 But Alexander Graham Bell beat him to the patent office 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:30.439 and um, now did he steal his ideas? Or was 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:34.199 it just confirms independent? Um? And I can't remember what 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:37.160 that's called. But there's there's there's an idea that, like 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.600 you know, oh the zeitgeist, we're all, you know, ideas 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.160 kind of float out there for anybody to latch onto, 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.720 and sometimes people do independently. I wonder how far apart 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.040 they were from each other and being completed, And like 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.760 I wonder if it was literally literally like my horse 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:53.320 fell sick that day and I couldn't make it to 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.480 the office. Um, but did I don't remember how how 0:17:56.520 --> 0:18:01.080 close it was, but it was pretty close. Um. So Uh, 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.280 the Patent office has this first to invent principle where 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:08.159 it's not necessarily like who beat who to the patent office. 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:11.000 It's if you have a situation like that, who's been 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:14.240 working on this longer or who reached a landmark longer, 0:18:14.320 --> 0:18:17.280 and then that's who gets the patent. That's why there 0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.040 was like you said that mad rush, because you know, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.000 it's like I noticed this first, so let me go 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:26.359 ahead and get my patent in well. And with the 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.159 case of like insulin or any of any of these 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.280 gene patents, really you can't just say like, oh, I 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.439 got this thing like you. They have to have it 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:36.800 on file, which is something I never knew. There are 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.479 twenty six culture depositories around the world thanks to and 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:44.640 this is such a mouthful, thanks to the Budapest Treaty 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.680 on the International Recognition of the deposit of Microorganisms for 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:52.000 the purpose of Patent Procedure. So basically, it's like a 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:55.520 repository where you send in your sample, right, and that 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:58.760 the way I understand it, um, And there's twenty six 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:03.320 of them worldwide, right, Yeah. And if it is a 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:05.840 a product of if it's something you remove from from 0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:08.960 the body and processed, the patent only applies to the 0:19:09.040 --> 0:19:12.800 very end result that you send in, not like the 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.040 little stages along the way, although you can patent that 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.800 those stages, Yeah, but they just have to be independent 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.480 of one another, right yeah, alright. So, um, you've you've 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:27.760 submitted your sample to a depository, you have applied for 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:32.960 the patent, it's been issued. You're good to go. Um, 0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:36.240 what are you patenting? Right? Like, I think there's a 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:43.159 huge misunderstanding among the public that you're walking around and 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:50.280 the some company owns the the rights to your genes. True? False? False? 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.200 That is false. I mean the gene patent is kind 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.879 of a misnomer. It's a pretty big misnomer actually, because 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:00.440 there's certain criteria that have to be met. Like you, 0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:06.800 you you have natural Um what is it natural matter? Um? 0:20:07.000 --> 0:20:09.280 Is it is that always called? Or something of nature? 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:12.040 Composition of nature? Genes are a composition of nature in 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.920 your body. To patent something, you have to extract genes 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:16.879 and get them to do like, you know, jump through 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:20.199 a flaming hoop outside of the body. Then you have 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.520 something called composition of matter. Right. Um, So what are 0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.720 some of the things that people are getting gene patents for? Well, 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:33.600 it breaks down, my friend, into four categories pretty much. Uh, 0:20:34.440 --> 0:20:39.080 you won't go one at a time. Yeah, for a change. Diagnostics, 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:42.960 that means, uh, they're looking to patent a method. Basically 0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:49.760 generally it tests for genetic differences, abnormalities, uh, spotting genetic 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.440 markers and cancer, alzheim or stuff like that. Right, pretty 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.240 nice way to use your time, I think it is. 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.680 But it's also very controversial. As we'll see in a 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:01.520 little bit this not all of it is, but three 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.200 of the four are, right. And with diagnostics, what you're 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.600 patenting is in fact the gene that you're looking at 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:13.840 or the genes involved, and the um the mutations. Right, 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:18.600 so you have a bunch of different possible mutations, right, 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.640 but a very sharp company. And by the way, by 0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:23.359 saying you need to know what you're talking about or 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.000 you need to have put some sort of UM research 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.240 into this basically excluded schmos like you and I from 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:34.000 getting gene patents. And just said, huge laboratories, huge corporations 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.200 are the only ones who can possibly get gene patents now. Um, 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:39.239 so if you have a very sharp laboratory or very 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.240 sharp corporation, they're gonna have a patent for every possible 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:47.320 mutation for a specific gene and then ultimately what they're 0:21:47.359 --> 0:21:51.920 patenting is the screening process. The test hit exactly used 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.920 to evaluate these mutations. So that's number one. UH functional 0:21:56.040 --> 0:22:00.320 uses the second that is pretty much just discovering roles 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:04.600 played by genes. Uh. They're usually issued for drugs that 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.680 affect the functioning of the genes. Yeah, so I guess 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:11.800 insulin would be that. Uh No, insulin is composition of matter. 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:17.959 So functional, we understand that this mutation on this gene 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.840 causes this to happen. So we're going to create a 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:25.320 drug that makes the gene act normally, expressed normally something 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.400 like that, And that's the that's the future of UM 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:33.520 pharmaceuticals is genetically tailored drugs because right now, when you 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:36.520 take a drug right Thailand all or something, you're just 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.760 throwing something in the in the wind and hoping it works. Right, 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.439 genetically tailor drugs, it's like, look at your genetic composition 0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:47.400 and then say, well, this is the drug you need 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:50.480 and it will work at the time and it will 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:58.359 work effectively. Dollars, please make it check out. UH process 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.320 is the third type of patent in this category, and 0:23:01.400 --> 0:23:05.400 that's pretty easy. That's basically protecting a method by which 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.520 the genes are extracted or manipulated. And it's the least 0:23:08.520 --> 0:23:13.000 controversial out of all these because it's not it's a 0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:17.600 more traditional kind of patent, right, This is like science. Yeah, 0:23:17.800 --> 0:23:21.480 and then you have composition of matter. That's yeah, composition 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.200 of matter and diagnostics are the two most controversial. And 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:28.720 composition of matter is like human growth hormone insulin stuff 0:23:28.760 --> 0:23:33.879 that saves lives. Um and but it's an invention quote 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:38.760 unquote it is, I mean like creating human growth hormone 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:42.440 using E. Coal i to string together amino acids. That's 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.080 an invention and hats off to you. So what's what's 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:48.960 the controversy? What's the problem with gene patents with it's 0:23:49.040 --> 0:23:53.040 issuing twenty years of exclusivity to somebody who you know, 0:23:53.280 --> 0:23:56.359 teaches the coal i to string together amino acids. Well, 0:23:56.400 --> 0:24:01.560 there's a couple of different controversies, one the ethical and 0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:04.919 social and economic, the others the legal. As far as 0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:09.280 legal goes, if you're against it, you're gonna argue that, dude, 0:24:09.760 --> 0:24:13.360 these are your genes. There is nothing more natural than 0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.480 the genes in your body, So of course you can't 0:24:15.480 --> 0:24:17.720 patent them. And it doesn't matter what you do to them, 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:21.520 like it's still based on this product of nature. That 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:24.560 just leave it alone, Like this should be this, This 0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.200 is the heritage of humankind. It's us, it's what makes 0:24:28.280 --> 0:24:31.240 us us. Of course, we shouldn't be issuing patents to 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:36.359 corporations on genes, say, say the critics of gene pat 0:24:36.760 --> 0:24:40.120 right proponents would say, hey, dude, if we can extract 0:24:40.119 --> 0:24:43.359