1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Do you have a daughter. I do. She just turned 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: twelve along with her twin my son John David. Can 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: you imagine just a few short years after that your 4 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: daughter is sex trafficked? Because I lay awake at night 5 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 1: thinking about crying victims that we speak to, that we cover, 6 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: that we try to find and try to help. And 7 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: this drama unfolding right now, going all the way to 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,599 Speaker 1: the highest echelons of our world society, all the way 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: to Prince Andrew in Great Britain, is making me ill 10 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: sick to my stomach. His denials and his recent BBC 11 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: interview ever knowing one of the underage victims, it's so 12 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: obvious he's lying. It's all connected to the billionaire pedophile 13 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Eppstein mysteriously found dead in his cell. But what 14 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: is the truth? Join us as we listen to Prince 15 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: Andrew trying to squirm his way out of underage sex 16 00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: allegations of ps. Under Age sex is a euphemism, that's 17 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: putting perfume on the pig. It's statutory rape. This is 18 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: crime stories. I Nancy Grace, Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 19 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: You don't remember meeting hunt. The Prince categorically denying he 20 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: ever had sex with Eufrey. Asked for this now infamous 21 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: picture of the two together, the Prince says he doesn't 22 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: remember it being taken, and says it could be a fake. 23 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,560 Speaker 1: From the investigations that we've done, you can't prove whether 24 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: or not that photograph is faked or not because it 25 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: is a photograph of a photograph of a photograph, so 26 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to be able to prove it. But 27 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: I don't remember that photograph ever being taken. Andrew claims 28 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: that on the date of one of their alleged encounters, 29 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: he was with his daughter. On that particular day, I 30 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: was at home. I was with the children. I'd taken 31 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: Batrice to a Pizza Express in working for a party. 32 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: Why would you remember that so specifically? Why would you 33 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,960 Speaker 1: remember a pizza Express birthday and being at home because 34 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: going to Pizza Express in Woking is an unusual thing 35 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 1: for me to do. Well, I'm sure the Pizza Express 36 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: in Woking isn't very happy about that. I mean, Asy grays, 37 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: this is crime stories. Thank you for being with us. 38 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: Well you know what, oh what a tangled web we 39 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: weave when first we practice to deceive. I can't take 40 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: credit for that. That's from Shakespeare. Sounds to me like 41 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew is spinning quite the tangled web. But it's 42 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: a very very complicated scenario, and it ends with allegations 43 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: of underage sex. You know what that is, statutory rape. 44 00:03:15,320 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 1: It all goes back to Epstein. Jeffrey Epstein, the multi 45 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 1: millionaire now dead, many believe killed behind bars because he 46 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: could name so many high powered and influential men that 47 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: he hooked up with teen girls. Will we ever know 48 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: the truth? I've got a funny feeling we will. Thanks 49 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: for being with us again. This is Nancy Grace's Crime Stories. 50 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew speaks in a toe curling interview, probably now 51 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: wishing he hadn't done it with me. An all star 52 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: lineup to try to determine the truth first of all. 53 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger thirty six years, Seattle PD, twenty two years homicide, 54 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: author of Seattle's Forgotten serial killer, Gary Jane Grant, Doctor 55 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 1: Karen Start, renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You 56 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: can find her at Karen Stark dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, 57 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University and author of Blood beneath 58 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,599 Speaker 1: my feet. But right now to Crime online dot Com 59 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: investigative reporter Levi, Paige Levi, let's just start at the beginning. 60 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: I know Prince Andrew gave this horrible, horrible interview. I 61 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: don't know who told him to do that. Don't they 62 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: know anything about the Fifth Amendment? Why talk if you 63 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: don't have to. I always had a phrase, and the 64 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: rest of you will laugh because you've all been in 65 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: and out of the trials. Better to remain silent and 66 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: let the jury think you're an ass, then speak and 67 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: confirm their suspicions. He should have just stayed shut up. 68 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: This thing goes all the way by years and years 69 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 1: and years. Jeffrey Epstein, multi millionaire befriending rich and powerful 70 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: individuals such as Bill Clinton Donald Trump. This is not political. 71 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: He befriended every man that basically wanted to have sex. Okay, 72 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying Clinton or Trump did anything wrong. 73 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: I'm just saying that he trafficked young girls in and 74 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: out of where wealthy men were. This includes a photo 75 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: of Prince Andrew with a teen girl at a party 76 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: where people are drinking and carousing. That in itself is 77 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 1: a problem. Then Epstein is caught. Epstein quote goes to jail. 78 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: What does that mean in Florida? That he goes in 79 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: and out of the jail at will and goes to 80 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: his office to hook up with young girls. It's allowed 81 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: in Florida. Finally the FETs jump in, then he ends 82 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: up dead behind bars. Now in the aftermath, all these 83 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 1: powerful men are afraid. They're shaking in their boots because 84 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: in the last hours we learn that many of them 85 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: are named in explosive pages of new evidence, three thousand 86 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: pages detailing further allegations against Epstein, the pedophile and all 87 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,919 Speaker 1: of his friends. Okay, Levi page. With that in the background, 88 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 1: let's go up to date with Andrew. Why the interview, Well, Nancy, 89 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: people were casting suspicions around him because of his friendship 90 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: with Jeffrey Epstein. He has stayed over night at Jeffrey 91 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: Epstein's residence in the Caribbean in Manhattan overseas, he is 92 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: good friends with Joseline Maxwell, the alleged madam that got 93 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: these young women and directed them to have sex, basically 94 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: setting them up. They are not young women. They are 95 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: not young women. Levi, don't say that they under the 96 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: law are miners. They are under the law. They are miners. Okay, 97 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 1: they are not young women. They can't decide if they 98 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: could be in a sex relationship with a grown man. 99 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:24,679 Speaker 1: For Pete's sake, You're corrected, Okay, go ahead. Underage girls 100 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: was a woman, a young girl. She was seventeen at 101 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:34,119 Speaker 1: the time, a teenager, Virginia Jeffrey, and she claims that 102 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: she was raped multiple times by Prince Andrew, one in 103 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: an orgy setting, another and London at Jessline Maxwell's residence. 104 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: She claims that in one counter that he was sweating 105 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: profusely all over her. And because of all of these accusations, 106 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew has said, I need to get out in 107 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: the forefront of this. I need to clear my name. Well, 108 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: it's a little light for that. He's a day light 109 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 1: and a dollar short. You know what I get it. 110 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to not only 111 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, but he has accuser the then teen girl, 112 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: Virginia Roberts Jeffrey. I want to start by saying, it's 113 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: not how Jeffrey died, but it's how he lived. And 114 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: we need to get to the bottom of everybody who 115 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: was involved at that starting with Gilan Maxwell and going 116 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: along the lines there. Um, I was recruited at a 117 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 1: very young age from mile ago and entrapped in a 118 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: world that I didn't understand, and I've been fighting that 119 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: very world to this day and I won't stop fighting. 120 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: I will never be silenced until these people are brought 121 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: to justice. So thank you all very much. Appreciate it. Silence. 122 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: He knows what he's done and he can attest to that. 123 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: So in your review, he knows exactly what he's done, 124 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: and I hope he comes clean about it. Thank you. Okay, 125 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: let's listen to what Prince Andrew has to say to that. 126 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: I have no recollection of ever meeting this lady, none whatsoever. 127 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: You don't remember meeting her? She says she met you 128 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. She dined with you, she 129 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 1: danced with you, You bought her drinks. You were in 130 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: Trump Nightclub in London, and she went on to have 131 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: sex with you in a house in Belgravia belonging to 132 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 1: Garline Maxwell. Didn't happen, Do you remember her? Okay, you're 133 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: hearing Prince Andrew giving a voluntary interview to Cloyd Steiger, 134 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: thirty six year Seattle PD twenty two years homicide and author. 135 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 1: What do you make of Andrew's interview? First of all, 136 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: it was brutal to watch. It was so obvious that 137 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: he was deceptive. A couple of things stuck out to me. 138 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: Regarding the photograph, he didn't say I wasn't in that photograph. 139 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: He said, you can't prove one way or the other 140 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 1: if I was in that program. Well, if you weren't 141 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: in the photograph, you know you weren't the photograph. The 142 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: second is when the interviewer, who did a great job 143 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: by the way, asked him if she's lying. He's not 144 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 1: in a position to say that. Come on, it's either 145 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: I didn't do it, so yes, she's lying. If he's 146 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: really innocent, you know, all the affirmative stuff we's going 147 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 1: around those questions. What would you say to her if 148 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: she's listening to this, I have nothing to say. An 149 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: in some person would say why are you doing this 150 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: to me? You know, something along those lines. But it's 151 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: so it's painful to watch him wiggle and twists and 152 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, not make eye contact during a lot of 153 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: his long statements. He looks to the left, away from 154 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: the interviewer, and then only comes back on eye to 155 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: eye at the end of the question or into the statement. 156 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 1: So it was just brutal. It was. That's actually a 157 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: great interview for people trying to learn how to interview 158 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: with somebody, to watch and see who's being deceptive, and 159 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 1: how to ask good questions, inching it forward one tiny 160 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: piece at a time, and then have your make a 161 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: statement and come back with some evidence opposite of what 162 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: he's saying. It was just it was. It was a 163 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: brutal by crime stories with me, it'sy Grace. Nobody can 164 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: prove whether or not that that photograph has been doctored. 165 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: But I don't recollect that photograph ever being taken, And 166 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: you don't recollect having your hand round her waist in 167 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: Girl and Maxwell's house on any occasion, even if it 168 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: was a different Sorry, but if I as a member 169 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: of the royal family and I photograph taken, and I 170 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: take very very few photographs, I am not one too. 171 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: As it were, hug and public displays of affection are 172 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: not something that I do. So that's the best explanation 173 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 1: I can give you. And then, and I'm afraid to 174 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: say that that I don't believe that photograph was taken 175 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 1: in the way that has been suggested. Why would people 176 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: not believe that you were there? I'm sorry, why would 177 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to understand. There's a photo inside Glenn 178 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:43,520 Speaker 1: Maxwell's house. Glenne herself is in the background. Why would 179 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: people not believe that you were there with her that night? Um, 180 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: they might well wish to believe it, But there's the 181 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: photograph has taken upstairs, and I don't think I ever 182 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: went upstairs in Glen's house. Wow. You know when you 183 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,839 Speaker 1: hear him speak, there are so many evasive maneuvers. I mean, 184 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 1: as he Grace, this is crime stories. Thank you for 185 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: being with us. This is not let's get Prince Andrew. 186 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: That's not what this is about. This is about what 187 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: really happened and did he and other high powered, wealthy 188 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 1: and influential men have sex with minors that were handed 189 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: over to them like a pizza delivery by Jeffrey Epstein? 190 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: And another thing, where is Gilene Maxwell? Why isn't she 191 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 1: being questioned right now? Why are we having to figure 192 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: this out? Why isn't she being brought in by the 193 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: fads and questioned what? Just because Epstein got killed behind bars, 194 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,960 Speaker 1: the whole case is over oh oh no, no, no, no. 195 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: If he was the devil, then she is Billzebub. According 196 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: to these girls, According to them, she found them, she 197 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: thought them out, she recruited them, She explained them to 198 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: them what various men would want in bed, and they 199 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 1: did it over and over and over. And if that's true, 200 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: she needs to go to jail. Maybe she has the 201 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: key to whether Andrew or others were involved with me. 202 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: Chloyd Steiger, doctor Karen Stark, Joseph Scott Morgan and Leavi 203 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 1: Page Karen Stark, psychologist joining us out of Manhattan. Karen, 204 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: what do you make if it sounds to you like 205 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:40,960 Speaker 1: he's telling the truth, tell me if not, explain No, Nancy, 206 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,560 Speaker 1: he's not telling the truth. It's so clear that he's dissembling. 207 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: I mean, there's just he's so evasive. He just doesn't 208 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: come out even and say how could that be? There's 209 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: no way I know that I'm not in that photograph. 210 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what they did, but that's not me. No, 211 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: he says, I don't recall. He doesn't recall of a sudden, 212 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: he can recall when he went for a pizza delivery 213 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: or he went to had pizza with his children, but 214 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: he can't recall when this that this photograph was actually taken. 215 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: And if you look at some of the things that 216 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: he says, you know you're looking at a narcissistic personality. 217 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: He's staying at the house because it was convenient, he says, 218 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 1: he's a member of the royal family. He has to 219 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: stay at Jeffrey Epstein's house. It's convenient. That makes no sense. 220 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:38,920 Speaker 1: And then he says, well, his judgment was probably colored 221 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: because he was too honorable. That's just the way it is. 222 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: So it has nothing to do with, oh, you know, 223 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: I made a mistake, because he's not supposed to admit 224 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: that he made a mistake. He has to say he 225 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: was just too honorable a person. Although I don't understand 226 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: how that fits him. There. Take a listen to our 227 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: friend at babyc Emily Maitlis with Prince Andrew. He was 228 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: released in July. Within months by December of twenty ten, 229 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: you went to stay with him at his New York mansion. 230 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: Why why were you staying with a convicted sex offender? Right? 231 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: I have always ever since this has happened, and since 232 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: this has become as it were, a public knowledge that 233 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: I was there, I've questioned myself as to why did 234 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: I go, what was I doing and was it the 235 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: right thing to do? Now? I went there with the 236 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 1: sole purpose of saying to him that because he had 237 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: been convicted, it was inappropriate for us to be seen together. 238 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: And I had a number of people canceled me in 239 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,040 Speaker 1: both directions, either to go and see him or not 240 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: to go and see him. And I took the judgment 241 00:16:54,320 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: call that because this was serious and I felt that 242 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: doing it over the telephone was the chickens way of 243 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: doing it. Was that visit December of twenty ten, the 244 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:15,120 Speaker 1: only time you saw him after he was convicted? Did 245 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: you see him or speak to him again? That ten? 246 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 1: Was it? That was it? Because I went well, First 247 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: of all, I wanted to make sure that if I 248 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: was going to go and see him, I had to 249 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: make sure that that that there was enough time between 250 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: his release, because it wasn't something that I was going 251 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: into in a hurry. But I had to go and 252 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: see him. I had to go and see him. I 253 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: had to stay with him and stay in the house. 254 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: I could easily have gone and stayed somewhere else, but 255 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: but sheer convenience of being able to get a hold 256 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,680 Speaker 1: of the man. Is was was? I mean he was? 257 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: He was in and all over the place. So getting 258 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: him in one place for a appears time to actually 259 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: have a long enough conversation to say, look, these are 260 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: the reasons why I'm not going to and that happened 261 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: on the walk. I'm not buying it to you. Joseph 262 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan forensics expert. And yes, I know your expertise 263 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,280 Speaker 1: is forensics. You're a death investigator, but you prove cases, 264 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 1: you go to crime scenes, and you talk to so 265 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: many witnesses and have watched and taken part in so 266 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: many trials. Just think about it. So you go and 267 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: stay in a pedophile's mansion, so for an extended period 268 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,960 Speaker 1: of time, spending the night, several nights, so you can 269 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: break the news to him that you're not going to 270 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: stay there anymore. It sounds like a breakup. Why do 271 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: you go out to dinner and go for a romantic 272 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:49,600 Speaker 1: weekend to say I'm breaking up? No, At most you 273 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: might see the person in a public place at lunch 274 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: and say, look it's not working out. It's over. It's me, 275 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: not you. You don't go stay with them, You should 276 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 1: just do a call or Pete's sake, he's the Prince 277 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 1: of England. He can have one of his flunkey's do it. 278 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: That is just not appropriate for him to be there anymore. 279 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: So right there, that smells like a lie. Yeah, it 280 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: does to me too, Nancy. And you know this visit 281 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: that he had at Epstein's place in New York, it 282 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: wasn't just an overnight. He was there multiple nights apparently. 283 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: And you know, you're telling me that the prince, that 284 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: a prince, a member of the royal family, can't get 285 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: his hands on Epstein because he's moving about. So therefore, 286 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,679 Speaker 1: the Prince, who could be staying at the Plaza or 287 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: any number of other places in New York, is going 288 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: to choose to stay in this guy's place. He could 289 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: have this guy brought to him. He could, you know, 290 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: like you said, he could have one of his people 291 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,719 Speaker 1: reach out to him. He chose not to do that. 292 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: He stayed there multiple nights during this quote unquote breakup. 293 00:19:54,920 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: It stinks stinks badly. Crime stories with me. It'sy grace. 294 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: She described dancing with you and you profusely sweating, and 295 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: that she went on to have Possibly there's a slight 296 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: problem with with with with the sweating because I have 297 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: a peculiar medical condition, which is that I don't sweat, 298 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: or I didn't sweat at the time, and that was wishing. Yes, 299 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: I didn't sweat at the time because I had suffered 300 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: what I would describe as an overdose of adrenaline in 301 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: the Falklands War when I was shot at, and I 302 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: simply it was almost impossible for me to sweat. And 303 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: it's only because I have done a number of things 304 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,880 Speaker 1: in the recent past that I'm starting to be able 305 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: to do that again. So I'm afraid to say that 306 00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,200 Speaker 1: that there's a medical condition that says that it didn't 307 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:07,680 Speaker 1: do it. You know what, This sounds like a whole 308 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: bunch of hogwash to me, a medical condition that doesn't 309 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: allow him to sweat, I mean again, Joseph Scott Morgan, 310 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: forensics expert. After he said that, then all of these 311 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: photos have been brought out and printed of him sweating 312 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,440 Speaker 1: up a storm at it looks like nightclubs or parties. 313 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:32,120 Speaker 1: And this whole thing about no PDA's public displays of affection. 314 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: There's one of a woman licking his face. You know 315 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: it just really, he just should I keep saying he 316 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 1: should never have done this interview. But the fact is 317 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: that everything he's saying is being disproven. And you know 318 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: the law, Joe Scott, if this were in front of 319 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: a jury, the judge would charge the jury that if 320 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: you believe any witness has lied you, the jury that's 321 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: us are entitled to discard any portion or all of 322 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: the testimony. It's about credibility. And photos have already been 323 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 1: brought out of him sweating. I mean, he's he's his 324 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: hair is all wet. He's sweating so much. I mean 325 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 1: that sells bogus. I got shot at I had a 326 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: dose of adrenaline and I couldn't sweat for a period 327 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: of time. But now I can. Oh, man, what I 328 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: love to cross examine this guy. Yeah, a load of hogwash. 329 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: A lot of those photos actually originated out of the 330 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,680 Speaker 1: South of France. He was on holiday multiple times down 331 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:34,640 Speaker 1: in on the Riviera, and so you know he's at 332 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: these parties, he's at these clubs, he's got these young 333 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: women hanging all over him. He's sweating like a hog. Uh. 334 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: There is a condition. Gee, I haven't heard that in 335 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: a long time. Oh, there's a condition that's called an hydrosis, 336 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: and it's it is a real medical condition, but it's 337 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: it's rare. Here's another one you haven't heard in a while. 338 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: It's rare as hen's teeth. You don't you don't see 339 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: it very often, and it is not you ever try 340 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: to features. That is one scary thing. They all come 341 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: rushing at you and start pecking. But I get it. 342 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 1: In hydrosis, you have the inability to sweat normally. When 343 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: you don't perspire, your body cannot cool itself and you overheat. 344 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: Sometimes it can even be fatal. But Andrew says he 345 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: had it around the time of the photo. But then 346 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: I guess he got well, Karen start it just gets 347 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: it gets the murkier and murkier. It's very very strange 348 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:32,640 Speaker 1: that he thought this was going to make any sense 349 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: to give this interview, and that somehow people would listen 350 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: to this and think that he was innocent, because if 351 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,320 Speaker 1: I think it was mentioned earlier, but I have to 352 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: really agree if you look at his nonverbal behavior as well, 353 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,120 Speaker 1: he's just he can't make eye contact. And we all 354 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: know you know when someone's not making eye contact that 355 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 1: the first thing you think of is that they're not 356 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: telling the truth. You can't make eye contact and he's 357 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: not definitive. He doesn't say absolutely not. I get into that. Yeah, 358 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: you know the fact that he keeps saying, especially about 359 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: that picture. Decloyd Stiger, homicide detective and author. We have 360 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: to weigh credibility all the time. And after you put 361 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: three or four thousand witnesses on the stand like you 362 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: and I have, you start picking up on who's lying 363 00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,880 Speaker 1: and who's not lying. When you're confronted with a photo 364 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: and instead of saying that's not me or I didn't 365 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: do that, you say you can't prove it. Yeah, that's 366 00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: a big red flag for me. That is ridiculous. But 367 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,240 Speaker 1: one thing I want to add, he was certainly sweating 368 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,199 Speaker 1: during that interview, I guarantee you because he was so uncomfortable. 369 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: But you're right, all these little I can't tell I 370 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: don't remember. It may have been I've never one of 371 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 1: the ones that I might have misunderstood. But he said 372 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: that picture was taken upstairs. I've never been upstairs. That 373 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: are out? Well, then, how to act and know the 374 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: picture was taken upstairs? Right? Uh? And it just you 375 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 1: could sit and write entire pages of the deceptions that 376 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: this guy is showing in this interview. This is actually 377 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: a dream interview for anybody doing it, because you just 378 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: blow him out of the water. I mean here we 379 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: are thousands of miles away and we can pick apart 380 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: the whole thing. Well, speaking of the picture, or lisn't 381 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 1: to Prince Andrew, I don't remember that photograph ever being taken. 382 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: I don't remember going upstairs in the house because that 383 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: photographs taken upstairs. And I'm not entirely convinced that I 384 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: mean that is that is what I would describe as 385 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: as me in that picture, but I can't we can't 386 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: be certain as to whether or not that's my hand 387 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: on her whatever it is left left side. You think 388 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: that because I have no recollection that photograph ever being taken, 389 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,199 Speaker 1: So why would somebody have put in another hand? You 390 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: think it is you next to her in the photo? Oh, 391 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 1: it's definitely mean that's a picture of me. It's not 392 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: a picture of I don't believe it's a picture of 393 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: me in London because when I would go out, when 394 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: I go out in London, I wear a suit and 395 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: a tie. That's what I would just grabe as those 396 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: are my traveling clothes. If I'm going to go, if 397 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: I'm going overseas. There's a I've got plenty of photographs 398 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: of me dressed in those sorts of that sort of kit, 399 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: but not there. Okay, that's where he's losing everybody once again. 400 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: Guys who are listening now to the infamous interview given 401 00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: by Prince Andrew if you haven't seen it, trying to 402 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 1: wiggle out of underage sex with a US girl. Man, 403 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:50,199 Speaker 1: it is something to behold. It's everything you should not 404 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: do in an interview to doctor Karen. Start what I'm 405 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: saying about losing everybody when you start talking to regular 406 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 1: people like us about your suit versus your traveling clothes. 407 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 1: All right, a lot of people can't relate to someone 408 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: having a set of traveling clothes. And also, Karen, I 409 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: want you to listen before you comment on that. Take 410 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: a listen to more of Prince Andrew's claims trying to 411 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 1: wiggle out of sex with an underage American girl. The 412 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: other aspect of this is that is that I live 413 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: in an institution at Buckingham Palace which has members of 414 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,440 Speaker 1: staff walking around all the time. And I don't wish 415 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: to appear grand, but there were a lot of people 416 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: who were walking around. Jeffrey Epstein's house. As far as 417 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: I was aware, they were staff. They were people that 418 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: were working for him or doing things. As it were. 419 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,600 Speaker 1: I interacted with them if you were to say good morning, 420 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: good afternoon, but I didn't, if you see what I mean, 421 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:00,359 Speaker 1: interact with them in a way that was what are 422 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: you doing here? Why you hear what's going on? But 423 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: you'd notice if there were hundreds of underage girls and 424 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 1: bucks but you've done but sorry? You would notice if 425 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: there were one hundreds of underage girls in Jeffrey's house, 426 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: wasn't there not when I was there. Now, he may 427 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: have changed his behavior patterns in order for that not 428 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: to be obvious to me. So I don't know. I mean, 429 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 1: this is you're asking me to speculate on things that 430 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: I just don't know about. So doctor Kieran start he 431 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: thought all the underage girls were staff there to wait 432 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: on him. Well, we know that's ridiculous, Nancy. And the 433 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: man goes out in these parties, and he stayed with Jeffrey. 434 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: He went supposedly he went back there because he found 435 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: out that the guy was in trouble and being with 436 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 1: underage girls and was going in aughty friends with him, 437 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: and so what he hid all the underage girls, and 438 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,840 Speaker 1: only this one girl who happened to be in the 439 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: photograph was the one that was around. Because he doesn't 440 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: deny that's him, It's just he didn't have his arm 441 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 1: around her. He knows even in that it's so strange. 442 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: He doesn't say, there's no way I never met her. 443 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: I didn't see her. I didn't get close to her. 444 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: He says, I didn't had my arm around her. I 445 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 1: don't do public display of the section. He nobody even 446 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: coached him to say the right thing. Crime stories with 447 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: Meancy Grace, I have no recollection of ever meeting her. 448 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: I'm almost in fact, I'm convinced that I was never 449 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: in tramps with her. There are a number of things 450 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: that are wrong with that story, one of which is 451 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,920 Speaker 1: that is that I don't know where the bar isn't 452 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:07,719 Speaker 1: in Trumps. I don't drink. I don't think I've ever 453 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: bought a drink in Trumps whenever I was there, Do 454 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 1: you remember dancing at Trump? No, that couldn't have happened 455 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: because the date that is being suggested, I was at 456 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: home with the children. You are hearing the now infamous 457 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: interview that Prince Andrew of Wales gave to the BBC 458 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: Emily Mateless and boy is it a stinker. In the US, 459 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: we would have a field day with this and it 460 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,480 Speaker 1: would be brought in front of a jury with claims 461 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: of under age sex. That's a felony. But so far 462 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: nothing of the sort has happened. But of course, as 463 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: great as my panel is today, Lloyd Steiger, doctor Karen Start, 464 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan to leave my page, Prince Andrew is 465 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: a star. Let's take a listen to Prince Andrew in 466 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: his own words, there is video footage of epstein a 467 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: companied by young girls, and you were there staying in 468 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: his house catching up with friends. I never I mean 469 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: a minute. If they were then I wasn't a party 470 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: to any of that. I never saw them. I mean 471 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: you have to have to understand that that his house. 472 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: I described it more as a as a as almost 473 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: as a railway station, if you know what I mean, 474 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: in the sense that there were people coming in and 475 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 1: out of that house all the time. What they were 476 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: doing and why they were there I had nothing to 477 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: do with. So I'm afraid I can't make any comment 478 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: on that because I really don't know. I mean, is 479 00:31:42,120 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: it just me? But Chloe's Dagger Seattle PD homicide detective 480 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: and author. I'm not going to name her, but I 481 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: would say one of my very dearest friends has been 482 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: known to smoke a joint. And the few times times 483 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: that I would be at her place and other people 484 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: would take out a joint, you know what I do? Leave? Leave, 485 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: get up and leave. Can you just even imagine that 486 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: on the front of page six j lights up? Okay, 487 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: that's not good, and that's what I've told my children. 488 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: You don't have to condemn the people around you, you 489 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: don't have to judge them, you don't have to comment 490 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: on it. But when you are around activity that's wrong, 491 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,800 Speaker 1: you must leave. You can be polite about it, you 492 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: can make up an excuse. I advise, just don't lie 493 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: because lies get bigger and bigger and bigger when you 494 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: have to keep them up. But if he thought anything 495 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: was amiss, why not leave? Especially in his position because 496 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: with great blessings comes great duties. And his only duty 497 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:58,200 Speaker 1: he's not running England, He has no duties other than titular. 498 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: Ali has to do is behave. That's it. So Chloyd's Tiger, 499 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,280 Speaker 1: why not with his upbringing, why doesn't he just get 500 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: up and leave. Well, you're exactly right, that's what you do, 501 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: that's what a normal person does. But you know, he 502 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:17,360 Speaker 1: is I agree with psychologists, he's narcissistic. He's been raised 503 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: as a member of the royal family. He thinks differently 504 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:23,520 Speaker 1: than everybody else. You certainly leave, and you certainly don't 505 00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 1: stay for three or four days at the place when 506 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: you said, yeah, we can't be seen together anymore. What 507 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: kind of sense does that make this guy? You just 508 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: sit back with this guy in an interview and you 509 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: see handing him rope, handing him rope and he wraps 510 00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: it around his own neck and hangs himself. This is 511 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: a It's just there's so much deception in this and 512 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: it's so obvious that he's just lying. It's just it's incredible. Well, 513 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: I mean, us authorities are going to have to decide 514 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,760 Speaker 1: what they're going to do about it. The statute of 515 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: limitations has passed in many jurisdictions. But what about this case. 516 00:33:55,880 --> 00:34:00,720 Speaker 1: And you know, doctor Karen starts psychologists joining me from Manhattan. Karen, 517 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: I really think that most people, when they're in a 518 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: situation where things are happening around them that are wrong. 519 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 1: They just sit there. They're like sheep. You have to 520 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,959 Speaker 1: have the gumption to leave. And it doesn't matter whose 521 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: feelings you heard, or if it's a social faux paw, 522 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: none of that matters. It had to have been pounded 523 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: into him in his upbringing not to be in precarious situations. 524 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: So I don't believe anything he's saying, and you're right 525 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: to not believe it, Nancy, because it was pounded into him. 526 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,719 Speaker 1: The problem is when you're talking about that personality, a 527 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 1: narcissistic personality as we've said, and the fact that he's 528 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 1: parted the royal family. He really does believe that he's 529 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,440 Speaker 1: above everyone else, and he couldn't get away with anything 530 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: that's been drilled into him. He has to. Karen, you 531 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: know how much I love you, right because you and 532 00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,440 Speaker 1: I go way back to like nineteen ninety seven. But 533 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: as much as I love the sound of your voice, 534 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: you've got to hear this from air Drew. Another guest 535 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: was John Brockman, the literary agent. Now he described seeing 536 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: you there getting a foot massage from a young Russian woman. 537 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: Did that happen? You're absolutely sure you can't remember absolutely so, 538 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 1: John Brockman's statement is false. Well, I wouldn't. I wouldn't. 539 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: I don't know, mister Brockman, so I don't know what 540 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: he's talking about. But that definitely wasn't you getting a 541 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,560 Speaker 1: foot massage from a Russian girl in Jeffrey Epstein's house. 542 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: It might seem a funny way to break off a friendship, 543 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,720 Speaker 1: a four day house party of sorts with a dinner, 544 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:46,080 Speaker 1: it's an odd way to break aff that. That's a 545 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: very stark way of putting it. Yes, you're absolutely right, 546 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: But actually, the the the truth of it is that 547 00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: is that I actually only saw him for about what 548 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: the part that the dinner party, the walk in the park, 549 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: and probably passing in the passage. Okay, well he brought 550 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: up the walk in the park himself. I didn't bring 551 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: it up. So so far, Virginia, Jeffries is lying, the 552 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,400 Speaker 1: photo was faked, and now a literary agent is lying 553 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:22,880 Speaker 1: about a foot massage from a Russian model. He even 554 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: says the walk in the park was set up. Wisten. 555 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,799 Speaker 1: We can't find any evidence, or my staff and my 556 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: people and I can't find any evidence to suggest that 557 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,279 Speaker 1: that was what he was doing. I mean, you can 558 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: look at it in so many different ways that the 559 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: fact of the factor is is that somebody very cleverly 560 00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:49,320 Speaker 1: took that photograph. It wasn't, as far as I remember, 561 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: nor do my security people remember anybody being present or close, 562 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: because there were enough security around. I mean, there's the 563 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:05,280 Speaker 1: photographs of the security people are around in the photo. Okay, 564 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: you know what. I used to love it when defense 565 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 1: would do this. Everybody's lying but me, everybody the photo 566 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: with Jeffreies Fate, the walk was set up. He doesn't 567 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: say there was no walk, nothing happened, there was no 568 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: foot massage, there was no sex. I don't sweat you 569 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: know what. He's lying. My big question now, what are 570 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: we going to do about it? Nancy Grace Crime Story 571 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: signing off, Goodbye friend,