1 00:00:15,356 --> 00:00:15,796 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:20,356 --> 00:00:26,236 Speaker 2: May twenty fifth, twenty twenty, Minneapolis, Minnesota, early evening, A 3 00:00:26,316 --> 00:00:28,996 Speaker 2: nine one one dispatcher makes a call. 4 00:00:31,236 --> 00:00:33,996 Speaker 3: If you start as the only available audio factor has 5 00:00:34,036 --> 00:00:37,636 Speaker 3: helped foods down to Doggle thirty seventy nine Chicadgle on 6 00:00:37,836 --> 00:00:40,156 Speaker 3: thirty eighth day, are reporting that there's a person who 7 00:00:40,196 --> 00:00:42,236 Speaker 3: will use the owners that still as a business. 8 00:00:43,596 --> 00:00:46,956 Speaker 2: The dispatcher is Jennis Scurry, seven years on the job. 9 00:00:47,596 --> 00:00:50,516 Speaker 2: She's in a big room with multiple computer screens and 10 00:00:50,676 --> 00:00:54,556 Speaker 2: televisions running live video feeds from around the city. The 11 00:00:54,676 --> 00:00:58,196 Speaker 2: details from the call come over her screen. Thirty eighth 12 00:00:58,356 --> 00:01:01,876 Speaker 2: in Chicago. Suspect at a grocery store. 13 00:01:03,036 --> 00:01:05,956 Speaker 3: Suspect of a black pale sixty four four tollars sitting 14 00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:09,676 Speaker 3: on the part of a bloom or Stadius play boy 15 00:01:09,756 --> 00:01:12,836 Speaker 3: while we're heresos. 16 00:01:13,956 --> 00:01:16,476 Speaker 2: She sends a squad card to the scene, looks up 17 00:01:16,756 --> 00:01:19,116 Speaker 2: and realizes the city has a fixed camera on that 18 00:01:19,236 --> 00:01:21,636 Speaker 2: corner of thirty eighth in Chicago, so she has a 19 00:01:21,756 --> 00:01:25,396 Speaker 2: live video feed up on one of the screens. She 20 00:01:25,516 --> 00:01:27,716 Speaker 2: sees the officers try to put the suspect in the 21 00:01:27,796 --> 00:01:30,316 Speaker 2: back of one of the squad cars. She looks away 22 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:34,836 Speaker 2: when she looks back. He's on the ground, handcuffed, face down, 23 00:01:35,476 --> 00:01:40,476 Speaker 2: one officer kneeling on his neck. The suspect is George Floyd. 24 00:01:41,076 --> 00:01:45,156 Speaker 2: The officer on top of him is Derek Chauvin. She 25 00:01:45,276 --> 00:01:54,436 Speaker 2: looks away again, takes another call. At the criminal trial 26 00:01:54,476 --> 00:01:57,196 Speaker 2: the following year, arising from the events that day in 27 00:01:57,316 --> 00:02:01,036 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, Scurry was the first witness called by the prosecution, 28 00:02:01,796 --> 00:02:05,396 Speaker 2: and she relived the events of that evening step by step. 29 00:02:06,516 --> 00:02:08,316 Speaker 4: At some point, then did you go back to this, 30 00:02:10,316 --> 00:02:12,236 Speaker 4: how did it appear at that time? When you went 31 00:02:12,316 --> 00:02:13,876 Speaker 4: back to it, it had not changed? 32 00:02:14,236 --> 00:02:15,156 Speaker 1: And what do you mean by that? 33 00:02:16,116 --> 00:02:18,916 Speaker 5: They were still on the ground, The whole situation was 34 00:02:18,996 --> 00:02:19,796 Speaker 5: still in the scene. 35 00:02:21,396 --> 00:02:23,396 Speaker 1: Do you recall approximately how long that was? 36 00:02:24,676 --> 00:02:27,756 Speaker 5: No, it was long enough. It was long enough that 37 00:02:27,836 --> 00:02:29,516 Speaker 5: I could look back multiple times. 38 00:02:31,276 --> 00:02:33,956 Speaker 4: And so when you did look back, still on the 39 00:02:33,996 --> 00:02:42,076 Speaker 4: ground like depicted here, essentially correct. And what did you 40 00:02:42,196 --> 00:02:44,836 Speaker 4: think about us when you look back and saw that 41 00:02:44,876 --> 00:02:45,636 Speaker 4: it hadn't changed? 42 00:02:46,916 --> 00:02:49,116 Speaker 5: I first asked if the screens had frozen. 43 00:02:53,956 --> 00:02:57,476 Speaker 2: My name is Malcolm Gladwell. Welcome to Revisionist History, my 44 00:02:57,636 --> 00:03:02,396 Speaker 2: podcast about things overlooked and misunderstood. I'm guessing you watched 45 00:03:02,396 --> 00:03:05,316 Speaker 2: the bystander videos of what happened that night during the 46 00:03:05,356 --> 00:03:09,996 Speaker 2: fevered COVID summer of twenty twenty. I know idea, I 47 00:03:10,076 --> 00:03:13,076 Speaker 2: knew the villain, I knew the victim. I thought that's 48 00:03:13,196 --> 00:03:16,276 Speaker 2: all I needed to know. But then I ran across 49 00:03:16,316 --> 00:03:19,356 Speaker 2: the George Floyd video again not long ago, by chance 50 00:03:20,236 --> 00:03:23,756 Speaker 2: one of those serendipitous Internet moments, and watched it for 51 00:03:23,836 --> 00:03:26,876 Speaker 2: the first time in years, far from the intense emotions 52 00:03:26,916 --> 00:03:29,716 Speaker 2: of the first time I saw it, and I realized 53 00:03:30,436 --> 00:03:33,756 Speaker 2: I didn't understand what was happening, what Chauvin was doing, 54 00:03:34,596 --> 00:03:37,076 Speaker 2: but the other police officers on the scene were thinking, 55 00:03:38,236 --> 00:03:41,196 Speaker 2: which made me wonder if somehow, the first time around, 56 00:03:41,796 --> 00:03:45,036 Speaker 2: I had missed a lesson of the case. So over 57 00:03:45,116 --> 00:03:47,876 Speaker 2: the next two episodes, I'm going to do a close 58 00:03:47,956 --> 00:03:51,876 Speaker 2: reading of what happened to George Floyd, an unfamiliar reading, 59 00:03:52,516 --> 00:03:55,556 Speaker 2: starting with the perspective of the very first person to 60 00:03:55,636 --> 00:04:01,436 Speaker 2: see things unfold in real time, Jennie Curry. Because before 61 00:04:01,516 --> 00:04:06,676 Speaker 2: George Floyd stopped breathing, before the angry crowd gathered, before 62 00:04:06,756 --> 00:04:10,596 Speaker 2: the scene turned into tragedy, she could see Derek Chauvin 63 00:04:10,636 --> 00:04:14,716 Speaker 2: behaving so strangely that It led her, a nine one 64 00:04:14,716 --> 00:04:17,956 Speaker 2: one dispatcher who had seen a thousand crime scenes in 65 00:04:18,036 --> 00:04:22,316 Speaker 2: her career, to stop and stare at the video feed 66 00:04:23,076 --> 00:04:29,436 Speaker 2: in disbelief, as in, this can't be real. The screen 67 00:04:29,516 --> 00:04:30,276 Speaker 2: must be frozen. 68 00:04:36,996 --> 00:04:38,716 Speaker 1: Did you find that it had frozen? 69 00:04:39,196 --> 00:04:41,756 Speaker 5: No, I was told that it was not frozen. 70 00:04:41,956 --> 00:04:43,956 Speaker 1: Did you see the screen change yourself? 71 00:04:44,236 --> 00:04:45,676 Speaker 5: Yes, I saw the person's moving. 72 00:04:45,956 --> 00:04:47,636 Speaker 1: So what did you start thinking at that point? 73 00:04:49,156 --> 00:04:50,076 Speaker 5: Something might be wrong? 74 00:04:51,276 --> 00:04:53,756 Speaker 1: Wrong with what? Or are you thinking? 75 00:04:54,716 --> 00:04:55,316 Speaker 5: Instinct of. 76 00:04:58,556 --> 00:05:02,316 Speaker 6: In the instant, something's not going right, whether it be 77 00:05:04,676 --> 00:05:11,276 Speaker 6: they needed more assistance or if there were, they're just 78 00:05:11,356 --> 00:05:13,076 Speaker 6: something wasn't right. I don't know how to explain it. 79 00:05:13,156 --> 00:05:16,356 Speaker 6: It was a good instinct to tell me that now 80 00:05:16,436 --> 00:05:17,316 Speaker 6: we can be concerned. 81 00:05:18,396 --> 00:05:19,516 Speaker 1: And what did you decide to do? 82 00:05:20,516 --> 00:05:22,556 Speaker 5: I took that instinct and I called the sergeant. 83 00:05:23,276 --> 00:05:26,196 Speaker 4: Have you ever in your career before called a sergeant 84 00:05:26,916 --> 00:05:29,916 Speaker 4: for something like those multiple for an incident like this 85 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:31,796 Speaker 4: to be exact, No. 86 00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:38,836 Speaker 2: In the beginning, there was nothing extraordinary about the situation unfolding. 87 00:05:38,876 --> 00:05:41,556 Speaker 2: On the corner of thirty eighth in Chicago, a man 88 00:05:41,716 --> 00:05:46,156 Speaker 2: passes a counterfeit twenty dollars bill. The clerk calls nine 89 00:05:46,156 --> 00:05:49,156 Speaker 2: to one one. The suspect hasn't run, He's sitting in 90 00:05:49,236 --> 00:05:52,836 Speaker 2: his car across the street. He isn't armed, he isn't hostile. 91 00:05:53,436 --> 00:05:57,076 Speaker 2: He seems like he's high. Two officers approach him and 92 00:05:57,236 --> 00:06:00,116 Speaker 2: tell him to get out of the car. He pleads 93 00:06:00,316 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 2: and complains, more like a scared child than a grown man. 94 00:06:04,036 --> 00:06:07,276 Speaker 2: He talks about his mom. He finally gets out. The 95 00:06:07,356 --> 00:06:10,436 Speaker 2: officers handcuff him. They asked him his name. He says 96 00:06:10,556 --> 00:06:13,756 Speaker 2: it's George Floyd. They lead him over to the squad car, 97 00:06:14,516 --> 00:06:16,236 Speaker 2: but he doesn't want to get in the back seat. 98 00:06:16,716 --> 00:06:21,476 Speaker 2: He says he's claustrophobic. He's having trouble breathing. He struggles 99 00:06:21,516 --> 00:06:24,476 Speaker 2: and squirms, and because he's a big man, well over 100 00:06:24,556 --> 00:06:27,636 Speaker 2: six feet and two hundred pounds, it makes things difficult. 101 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:31,876 Speaker 2: In the struggle, he cuts his mouth. One of the 102 00:06:31,956 --> 00:06:35,556 Speaker 2: officers calls for an ambulance. A second squad car arrives. 103 00:06:35,876 --> 00:06:38,476 Speaker 2: There are now four police officers on the scene and 104 00:06:38,676 --> 00:06:45,436 Speaker 2: one handcuff suspect, clearly unhappy but deferential. We know from 105 00:06:45,476 --> 00:06:47,876 Speaker 2: the body camp footage that by this point he has 106 00:06:47,996 --> 00:06:54,156 Speaker 2: used the words sorry and please fifty seven times leave. 107 00:06:54,276 --> 00:07:02,156 Speaker 2: That's Floyd is he going to jail. That's Derek Chauvin. 108 00:07:02,756 --> 00:07:05,116 Speaker 2: He's one of the two officers in a second squad 109 00:07:05,156 --> 00:07:06,156 Speaker 2: car that just pulled up. 110 00:07:06,436 --> 00:07:08,476 Speaker 7: He's under a rush right now for forgery. I'll tell 111 00:07:08,476 --> 00:07:10,356 Speaker 7: you tell what's going on. 112 00:07:15,876 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 2: Come on out, get him on the ground. Chauvin says, 113 00:07:24,916 --> 00:07:28,516 Speaker 2: as the senior officer president, he's taking control of the situation. 114 00:07:29,276 --> 00:07:33,036 Speaker 2: He wants Floyd in the prone position, face down, hands 115 00:07:33,116 --> 00:07:36,356 Speaker 2: cuffed behind his back. He then puts one of his 116 00:07:36,476 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 2: knees on the side of Floyd's neck and the other 117 00:07:39,756 --> 00:07:44,916 Speaker 2: between Floyd's shoulder blades, a technique sometimes used with non 118 00:07:44,996 --> 00:07:46,036 Speaker 2: compliant subjects. 119 00:07:52,036 --> 00:07:54,476 Speaker 7: Please please let me stay. 120 00:07:54,276 --> 00:07:59,356 Speaker 2: In, Chauvin says, we'll hold him until the ambulance shows up. 121 00:08:00,076 --> 00:08:05,756 Speaker 2: Floyd says, let me stand. Chauvin says no. So what 122 00:08:05,876 --> 00:08:10,516 Speaker 2: does Chauvin do next? Chauvin doesn't move. Chauvin just sits there. 123 00:08:11,076 --> 00:08:17,836 Speaker 2: He's frozen. Right around this time, an off duty firefighter 124 00:08:17,916 --> 00:08:21,516 Speaker 2: named Genevieve Hanson was out for a walk. Happens upon 125 00:08:21,596 --> 00:08:26,316 Speaker 2: the scene, identifies herself as a firefighter, a trained first responder. 126 00:08:27,716 --> 00:08:33,236 Speaker 8: I was pretty focused on trying to get the officers 127 00:08:33,276 --> 00:08:34,476 Speaker 8: to let me. 128 00:08:34,556 --> 00:08:38,436 Speaker 4: Help and how are you doing that, trying to get 129 00:08:38,476 --> 00:08:40,436 Speaker 4: the officers to focus on your and get help. 130 00:08:41,036 --> 00:08:45,236 Speaker 9: I think in my memory, I tried different tactics of 131 00:08:47,196 --> 00:08:54,316 Speaker 9: calm and reasoning. I tried to be assert of, I 132 00:08:55,636 --> 00:08:56,996 Speaker 9: pled and was desperate. 133 00:08:58,836 --> 00:09:01,316 Speaker 2: Henson testified at Chauven's trial. 134 00:09:02,316 --> 00:09:05,716 Speaker 4: In terms of you know his face when you're first there, 135 00:09:07,196 --> 00:09:09,716 Speaker 4: or even the rest of him. What is that you 136 00:09:09,876 --> 00:09:12,836 Speaker 4: saw that made you concerned about his medical needs? 137 00:09:13,716 --> 00:09:17,476 Speaker 9: I was really concerned about I thought his face looked 138 00:09:18,356 --> 00:09:22,396 Speaker 9: puffy and swollen, which would happen if you are putting 139 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:28,876 Speaker 9: a grown man's weight on someone's neck. I noticed some 140 00:09:29,476 --> 00:09:33,676 Speaker 9: fluid coming from what looked like George's foot body, and 141 00:09:34,036 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 9: in a lot of cases we see a patient. 142 00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:41,596 Speaker 8: Release their bladder when they die. 143 00:09:42,996 --> 00:09:45,956 Speaker 9: I can't tell you exactly where the flood was coming from, 144 00:09:45,996 --> 00:09:47,796 Speaker 9: but that's where my mind went. 145 00:09:50,196 --> 00:09:55,996 Speaker 8: He wasn't moving. He was being restrained, but he wasn't moving. 146 00:09:58,356 --> 00:10:01,196 Speaker 2: Later at the trial, a police surgeon named Bill Smuck 147 00:10:01,836 --> 00:10:04,916 Speaker 2: walked the jury through the videotape of Floyd's final moments, 148 00:10:05,516 --> 00:10:08,076 Speaker 2: pointing out all the mounting warning signs. 149 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:11,796 Speaker 10: What I want you to also watch for is what 150 00:10:12,116 --> 00:10:16,276 Speaker 10: is his right arm doing as this progresses? You will 151 00:10:16,356 --> 00:10:21,196 Speaker 10: see him pushing against the tire. You'll see his right arm, 152 00:10:21,316 --> 00:10:23,876 Speaker 10: his elbow pushing against. Yes, I'd like to know what 153 00:10:23,996 --> 00:10:26,876 Speaker 10: is it showing us? Why is that significant? This is 154 00:10:27,436 --> 00:10:31,156 Speaker 10: very important because it's showing what mister Floyd is doing 155 00:10:31,556 --> 00:10:35,356 Speaker 10: to try and breathe, to get his right side of 156 00:10:35,396 --> 00:10:38,036 Speaker 10: his chest up off of the pavement so that he 157 00:10:38,156 --> 00:10:38,876 Speaker 10: can bring in air. 158 00:10:39,876 --> 00:10:42,756 Speaker 2: Smart breaks down Floyd's final minutes frame by frame. 159 00:10:43,516 --> 00:10:47,636 Speaker 1: Let's look at another segment. Brand if we can go 160 00:10:47,716 --> 00:10:49,036 Speaker 1: to start at twenty twenty one. 161 00:10:50,076 --> 00:10:55,996 Speaker 10: You will hear his voice gets weaker and weaker. You 162 00:10:56,076 --> 00:11:01,756 Speaker 10: will see his los facial expression. You will hear him 163 00:11:01,836 --> 00:11:06,756 Speaker 10: make sounds of trying to breathe as we get closer. 164 00:11:07,956 --> 00:11:08,796 Speaker 1: He then goes on. 165 00:11:10,836 --> 00:11:14,476 Speaker 10: He will then see in the next section he has 166 00:11:14,516 --> 00:11:17,956 Speaker 10: what's called and anoxuc seizure. That's a fancy word for 167 00:11:18,636 --> 00:11:22,716 Speaker 10: his brain is going without oxygen very low. His legs shake, 168 00:11:23,116 --> 00:11:25,716 Speaker 10: but you're also you will actually see and you can 169 00:11:25,876 --> 00:11:29,716 Speaker 10: hear the handcuff shake, and you'll see the body camera 170 00:11:29,876 --> 00:11:32,676 Speaker 10: shake when he has in anox ex seizure. 171 00:11:33,716 --> 00:11:39,036 Speaker 2: Further on down the line, clear warning signs, clear red flags, 172 00:11:39,596 --> 00:11:43,476 Speaker 2: not to mention Genevieve Henson and other bystanders are just 173 00:11:43,556 --> 00:11:46,796 Speaker 2: a few feet away shouting at him to get off Floyd, 174 00:11:47,836 --> 00:11:51,396 Speaker 2: and then another voice joins that chorus. It's one of 175 00:11:51,476 --> 00:11:54,796 Speaker 2: the other officers. He says, should we roll him on 176 00:11:54,876 --> 00:11:59,676 Speaker 2: his side? Rolling him on his side is what's known 177 00:11:59,836 --> 00:12:03,356 Speaker 2: as the recovery position. Having someone prone on the hard 178 00:12:03,436 --> 00:12:05,996 Speaker 2: ground with their hands cuffed and with a knee on 179 00:12:06,036 --> 00:12:07,996 Speaker 2: their neck and in the middle of their back was 180 00:12:08,076 --> 00:12:11,716 Speaker 2: acceptable practice Minneapolis at the time, but the city's use 181 00:12:11,756 --> 00:12:15,316 Speaker 2: of force training explicitly stated that the technique was only 182 00:12:15,356 --> 00:12:19,116 Speaker 2: supposed to be used briefly and on someone quote exhibiting 183 00:12:19,396 --> 00:12:25,516 Speaker 2: active aggression unquote. It's dangerous, it's hard to breathe I 184 00:12:25,636 --> 00:12:27,676 Speaker 2: tried it. I had a friend put me in that position. 185 00:12:28,036 --> 00:12:31,716 Speaker 2: It's scary. So when the subject calms down, you're supposed 186 00:12:31,756 --> 00:12:34,596 Speaker 2: to roll them over. That's what the fellow officer is saying. 187 00:12:34,996 --> 00:12:38,596 Speaker 2: We have to roll them over. But Chauvin says no. 188 00:12:39,436 --> 00:12:43,276 Speaker 2: He says, that's why we've got the ambulance coming. He's 189 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:46,836 Speaker 2: not reacting to anything. This is what so alarms Jenni 190 00:12:46,876 --> 00:12:50,076 Speaker 2: scurry when she looks back up at the scene. She's 191 00:12:50,276 --> 00:12:54,916 Speaker 2: expecting things to have resolved themselves. Things should have happened, 192 00:12:55,956 --> 00:13:00,196 Speaker 2: but nothing's happened. All she sees is Chauvin up on 193 00:13:00,276 --> 00:13:03,956 Speaker 2: the screen, sitting on Floyd's neck, his hand casually in 194 00:13:04,036 --> 00:13:09,076 Speaker 2: his pocket, his face impassive. He's frozen, or, to use 195 00:13:09,116 --> 00:13:12,636 Speaker 2: here's a term favored by psychologists, he's fixated. 196 00:13:13,996 --> 00:13:18,116 Speaker 11: Fixation is simply going down the wrong path and getting 197 00:13:18,196 --> 00:13:19,196 Speaker 11: stuck on that path. 198 00:13:20,316 --> 00:13:24,356 Speaker 2: That's Gary Klein. He consults with governments, armies, and hospitals 199 00:13:24,596 --> 00:13:27,236 Speaker 2: on how to make better decisions under pressure, and wrote 200 00:13:27,236 --> 00:13:30,876 Speaker 2: the classic Sources of Power, one of my favorite books ever. 201 00:13:31,676 --> 00:13:34,556 Speaker 2: For Klein, One of the most revealing case studies in 202 00:13:34,676 --> 00:13:39,396 Speaker 2: fixation was the actions of the Israeli intelligence chief Elizia 203 00:13:39,836 --> 00:13:41,956 Speaker 2: in the weeks leading up to the Yom Kapur War 204 00:13:42,036 --> 00:13:44,916 Speaker 2: between Egypt and Israel in nineteen seventy three. 205 00:13:46,036 --> 00:13:49,516 Speaker 11: He had what was now called an israel conception. His 206 00:13:49,676 --> 00:13:53,156 Speaker 11: conception was, Egypt will never attack us until they have 207 00:13:53,316 --> 00:13:57,236 Speaker 11: air superiority, and they don't have air superiority, and we 208 00:13:57,356 --> 00:14:00,596 Speaker 11: have nothing to worry about. And he held on to 209 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:05,356 Speaker 11: that belief until about two hours before the attack. But 210 00:14:05,516 --> 00:14:09,956 Speaker 11: his subordinates were seeing all these counterindicators they're seeing the 211 00:14:10,116 --> 00:14:15,916 Speaker 11: Egyptians moving troops and changing configurations at the border, all 212 00:14:15,996 --> 00:14:19,796 Speaker 11: these signs that indicate and the attack is imminent. And 213 00:14:19,996 --> 00:14:23,956 Speaker 11: Zarah said, this is just a training exercise. But then 214 00:14:24,036 --> 00:14:26,996 Speaker 11: the subordin has showed there was no sign of training 215 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:30,676 Speaker 11: going on, so this was just a cover story. And 216 00:14:30,956 --> 00:14:35,876 Speaker 11: Zarah refused to pass their concerns on higher and then 217 00:14:36,436 --> 00:14:40,796 Speaker 11: the attack occurred. So he was fixated and he wouldn't budge. 218 00:14:42,116 --> 00:14:46,556 Speaker 2: The fixated decision maker cannot accept new information. Every time 219 00:14:46,836 --> 00:14:51,196 Speaker 2: new information arises that challenges his original conception, he explains 220 00:14:51,236 --> 00:14:54,236 Speaker 2: it away. Klein Wentz did a big project at Johns 221 00:14:54,276 --> 00:14:58,756 Speaker 2: Hopkins University Hospital looking at how physicians made diagnoses, and 222 00:14:58,876 --> 00:15:02,476 Speaker 2: he found that the most experienced doctors were acutely aware 223 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 2: of their own tendency towards fixation. It was a constant battle. 224 00:15:07,756 --> 00:15:11,516 Speaker 11: I watched one of Examine Nation where the attending position. 225 00:15:11,716 --> 00:15:16,076 Speaker 11: This is the first observation I made. The attending position 226 00:15:16,276 --> 00:15:22,636 Speaker 11: is examining the person. The person's describing his condition and 227 00:15:23,396 --> 00:15:28,516 Speaker 11: seems pretty straightforward, and at a certain point he says, 228 00:15:28,756 --> 00:15:30,756 Speaker 11: what's this on your back? Well, it turned out he 229 00:15:30,876 --> 00:15:36,756 Speaker 11: had had surgery to repair some heart defect. This hadn't 230 00:15:36,756 --> 00:15:40,436 Speaker 11: been in his history. And the physician said, wait a minute, 231 00:15:41,156 --> 00:15:44,716 Speaker 11: let's start over. And he started the whole exam over 232 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:48,556 Speaker 11: because he was aware that there might have been implications 233 00:15:48,636 --> 00:15:51,836 Speaker 11: in what he did that he didn't see because he 234 00:15:51,916 --> 00:15:53,836 Speaker 11: didn't have this other possibility. 235 00:15:54,516 --> 00:15:56,236 Speaker 2: Did he end up changing his diagnosis? 236 00:15:56,956 --> 00:16:00,756 Speaker 11: Oh yes, yes, they found a much more serious problem 237 00:16:01,236 --> 00:16:05,636 Speaker 11: that the resident and some of the nurses had missed. 238 00:16:07,116 --> 00:16:10,556 Speaker 2: Fighting fixation means being willing to throw away all the 239 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:13,396 Speaker 2: work you've done in making sense of a complicated situation 240 00:16:14,196 --> 00:16:18,676 Speaker 2: and saying, let's start over. This is what Chauvin doesn't do. 241 00:16:19,436 --> 00:16:22,156 Speaker 2: He never says to himself, let's start over. 242 00:16:23,116 --> 00:16:26,756 Speaker 11: Derek Chaugan, he had a script for how to handle 243 00:16:26,876 --> 00:16:32,356 Speaker 11: people who are larger and intimidating, and that's as far 244 00:16:32,436 --> 00:16:33,276 Speaker 11: as he ever gots. 245 00:16:35,996 --> 00:16:38,476 Speaker 2: You can't be Is it fair to say you can't 246 00:16:38,516 --> 00:16:40,596 Speaker 2: be a police officer if you're not willing to revisit 247 00:16:40,636 --> 00:16:41,036 Speaker 2: your script. 248 00:16:41,996 --> 00:16:45,596 Speaker 11: You can't be an effective police officer if you are 249 00:16:45,676 --> 00:16:46,756 Speaker 11: stuck on your script. 250 00:16:48,596 --> 00:16:51,636 Speaker 2: Floyd is trying to raise his chest off the ground. Oh, 251 00:16:52,276 --> 00:16:55,796 Speaker 2: that's because he's still resisting arrest. Some lady says she's 252 00:16:55,836 --> 00:16:57,916 Speaker 2: a firefighter. Is she really? 253 00:16:58,596 --> 00:16:58,956 Speaker 1: In fact? 254 00:16:59,356 --> 00:17:02,436 Speaker 2: When Genevieve Hansen moves closer, Show then goes for his mace, 255 00:17:03,276 --> 00:17:07,076 Speaker 2: Floyd's voice starts to falter. About time, Maybe he's finally 256 00:17:07,116 --> 00:17:10,116 Speaker 2: going to stop complaining. One of his fellow officers says, 257 00:17:10,516 --> 00:17:13,836 Speaker 2: put him in the recovery position, dude, I've been doing 258 00:17:13,876 --> 00:17:17,556 Speaker 2: this for nineteen years. Back off. The crowd that has 259 00:17:17,636 --> 00:17:20,676 Speaker 2: gathered around Floyd in the four officers is becoming more 260 00:17:21,236 --> 00:17:24,676 Speaker 2: and more vocal. But Chauvin isn't moving. 261 00:17:26,956 --> 00:17:31,236 Speaker 7: He's not responsive right now. No, bro, look at him. 262 00:17:31,236 --> 00:17:39,996 Speaker 7: He's having responsive right now? Is he breathing right now? 263 00:17:40,276 --> 00:17:42,676 Speaker 7: Check his book, Check his pulse. 264 00:17:43,116 --> 00:17:52,196 Speaker 2: Check his book, check his pulse, Check his pulse. One 265 00:17:52,236 --> 00:17:54,396 Speaker 2: of the other cops at the scene says to the 266 00:17:54,436 --> 00:18:00,276 Speaker 2: officers sitting behind Chauvin, I can't find one. Floyd is dead, 267 00:18:01,316 --> 00:18:05,916 Speaker 2: and still Chauvin doesn't move. He will remain on Floyd's 268 00:18:05,996 --> 00:18:11,116 Speaker 2: neck for another three minutes, even after the ambulance arrives. 269 00:18:14,316 --> 00:18:18,716 Speaker 2: Years from now, when university professors teach courses on decision sciences, 270 00:18:19,116 --> 00:18:22,516 Speaker 2: they will play this video as a textbook example of fixation. 271 00:18:23,516 --> 00:18:29,436 Speaker 2: But why is Chauvin fixated? What psychological mechanism could describe 272 00:18:29,636 --> 00:18:33,076 Speaker 2: why he would just sit there. In the aftermath of 273 00:18:33,156 --> 00:18:35,996 Speaker 2: the murder, it was said again and again that Chauvin 274 00:18:36,116 --> 00:18:39,836 Speaker 2: is a racist. But calling someone racist is a description, 275 00:18:40,396 --> 00:18:44,516 Speaker 2: not an explanation. Why is Chauvin stuck on his script? 276 00:18:59,476 --> 00:19:02,516 Speaker 2: One of the most influential ideas to emerge in social 277 00:19:02,596 --> 00:19:07,756 Speaker 2: psychology in recent years is something called hostile intention attribution, 278 00:19:08,716 --> 00:19:11,476 Speaker 2: arising out of the work of Ken Dodge. 279 00:19:12,436 --> 00:19:15,876 Speaker 12: For me, a very poignant event in my own thinking 280 00:19:16,516 --> 00:19:19,516 Speaker 12: was that as a clinical psychologist, I was seeing a 281 00:19:20,636 --> 00:19:24,956 Speaker 12: highly aggressive teenager in a state psychiatric hospital. 282 00:19:25,556 --> 00:19:28,916 Speaker 2: That's Dodge, who teaches at Duke University, and. 283 00:19:29,556 --> 00:19:32,036 Speaker 12: The boy's name was Rocky. I came up to his 284 00:19:32,436 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 12: ward one day, approached him from behind to say hello. 285 00:19:37,316 --> 00:19:40,036 Speaker 12: I was trying to establish a relationship with him. Touched 286 00:19:40,116 --> 00:19:43,956 Speaker 12: him on the shoulder from behind, and he turned around 287 00:19:43,996 --> 00:19:47,956 Speaker 12: and punched me in the gut, And in a nanosecond 288 00:19:47,996 --> 00:19:50,196 Speaker 12: he stopped and said, oh my, you can't be too 289 00:19:50,236 --> 00:19:55,156 Speaker 12: careful around here. And you know, he was making a 290 00:19:55,276 --> 00:20:00,156 Speaker 12: decision that in that moment that somebody touching him on 291 00:20:00,276 --> 00:20:04,516 Speaker 12: the back shoulder might be a threat, and he responded 292 00:20:05,076 --> 00:20:06,636 Speaker 12: that was his mindset. 293 00:20:09,116 --> 00:20:11,396 Speaker 2: Could have interpreted that touch on the shoulder in any 294 00:20:11,476 --> 00:20:14,916 Speaker 2: number of ways. He could have ignored it, shrugged it off, 295 00:20:15,596 --> 00:20:19,036 Speaker 2: or assumed it was an invitation for affection and turned 296 00:20:19,116 --> 00:20:23,636 Speaker 2: and smiled. But he didn't. He chose to focus on 297 00:20:23,756 --> 00:20:26,956 Speaker 2: it and to assume that Dodge had a hostile intent. 298 00:20:27,836 --> 00:20:34,476 Speaker 2: That's hostile intent attribution, the pattern of interpreting everything as 299 00:20:34,516 --> 00:20:37,956 Speaker 2: a threat. You can look at someone like that kid 300 00:20:38,036 --> 00:20:41,716 Speaker 2: Rocky and offer an organic explanation of his behavior. He's 301 00:20:41,756 --> 00:20:45,636 Speaker 2: a bad seed, he's wired wrong. But Dodge wants us 302 00:20:45,876 --> 00:20:49,996 Speaker 2: to look at problematic behavior as a developmental problem as well. 303 00:20:50,796 --> 00:20:55,836 Speaker 2: Somewhere along the way, someone's personal experience left the unprepared 304 00:20:55,916 --> 00:20:59,316 Speaker 2: to make proper sense of the world. A very small child, 305 00:20:59,436 --> 00:21:03,516 Speaker 2: for example, does not understand the distinction between an intentional 306 00:21:03,596 --> 00:21:08,036 Speaker 2: act and an accident. That's something you learn. You gradually 307 00:21:08,116 --> 00:21:10,636 Speaker 2: figure out that that actions can come with any number 308 00:21:10,676 --> 00:21:11,876 Speaker 2: of different explanations. 309 00:21:12,596 --> 00:21:15,676 Speaker 12: I remember going to the pediatrician at age four and 310 00:21:15,796 --> 00:21:20,036 Speaker 12: being definitely afraid of getting a shot right. But my 311 00:21:20,236 --> 00:21:23,716 Speaker 12: parents and everybody certainly quickly told me that doctor was 312 00:21:23,796 --> 00:21:26,596 Speaker 12: not trying to be mean to me, right, And I 313 00:21:26,636 --> 00:21:29,716 Speaker 12: had to learn that. But I do think that it's 314 00:21:29,796 --> 00:21:33,436 Speaker 12: a socialization of benign intent that early life is about, 315 00:21:33,636 --> 00:21:37,036 Speaker 12: rather than the socialization of hostile intent. 316 00:21:38,396 --> 00:21:40,916 Speaker 2: After talking to Dodge, I began to observe my own 317 00:21:40,996 --> 00:21:44,956 Speaker 2: kids more closely. They're both preschoolers two years apart. The 318 00:21:44,996 --> 00:21:47,596 Speaker 2: big one loves to man handle her little sister, and 319 00:21:47,716 --> 00:21:50,516 Speaker 2: most of the time that interaction is greeted with laughter. 320 00:21:51,196 --> 00:21:55,236 Speaker 2: But sometimes if my eldest goes too far, her sister cries, 321 00:21:55,996 --> 00:21:58,716 Speaker 2: and I realized that what they're doing is, to use 322 00:21:58,836 --> 00:22:02,556 Speaker 2: Dodge's phrase, learning how to make accurate attributions of each 323 00:22:02,596 --> 00:22:06,196 Speaker 2: other's behavior. When the big sisters push is too aggressive, 324 00:22:06,516 --> 00:22:09,116 Speaker 2: the little one learns that seems to have a different 325 00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:13,356 Speaker 2: intention from what we were doing before. She's learning the 326 00:22:13,396 --> 00:22:17,956 Speaker 2: difference between fighting and playing. And when the little one 327 00:22:17,996 --> 00:22:20,716 Speaker 2: cries out instead of laughing, the big one learns, oh, 328 00:22:21,236 --> 00:22:23,636 Speaker 2: if I want to keep playing, I have to make 329 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:28,076 Speaker 2: sure that my actions are accurately interpreted. She's learning how 330 00:22:28,116 --> 00:22:31,796 Speaker 2: to reign in her aggression. That kind of feedback loop 331 00:22:32,156 --> 00:22:36,556 Speaker 2: is a crucial part of a child's socialization, But in 332 00:22:36,596 --> 00:22:39,476 Speaker 2: the case of the boy Rocky, what Dodge realized was 333 00:22:39,516 --> 00:22:43,156 Speaker 2: that that process of socialization of learning how to accurately 334 00:22:43,276 --> 00:22:47,356 Speaker 2: distinguish between a hostile touch and a playful touch had 335 00:22:47,396 --> 00:22:48,076 Speaker 2: been disrupted. 336 00:22:48,996 --> 00:22:53,156 Speaker 12: I remember interviewing a ten year old kid who told 337 00:22:53,236 --> 00:22:57,156 Speaker 12: me about when he was four or five, the family 338 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:00,236 Speaker 12: that he lived in at that time. His father stepfather 339 00:23:01,396 --> 00:23:05,596 Speaker 12: would come home every night from work, and he learned 340 00:23:06,516 --> 00:23:09,556 Speaker 12: how to minimize the likelihood that he was going to 341 00:23:09,556 --> 00:23:13,516 Speaker 12: get beaten up that night by smelling whether his father 342 00:23:13,636 --> 00:23:16,156 Speaker 12: had alcohol in his breath, whether his father had a 343 00:23:16,236 --> 00:23:20,276 Speaker 12: mean look, whether's father called him into the kitchen with 344 00:23:20,476 --> 00:23:23,276 Speaker 12: his belt already undone, put it on the kitchen table. 345 00:23:23,516 --> 00:23:25,276 Speaker 12: He was learning all He was four years old and 346 00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:28,556 Speaker 12: he's learning all these signals, and he could describe them 347 00:23:28,596 --> 00:23:32,196 Speaker 12: to me in great detail. So I think in early 348 00:23:32,396 --> 00:23:37,196 Speaker 12: life of threat personal physical threat, there may be others 349 00:23:37,236 --> 00:23:39,916 Speaker 12: as well. Is one way that it would be very 350 00:23:39,996 --> 00:23:44,556 Speaker 12: adaptive to develop a defensive mindset and to assume a 351 00:23:44,636 --> 00:23:47,476 Speaker 12: hostile intent from another person. 352 00:23:48,476 --> 00:23:50,996 Speaker 2: If your father is violent sixty percent of the time 353 00:23:51,556 --> 00:23:54,196 Speaker 2: and loving forty percent of the time, and you can't 354 00:23:54,236 --> 00:23:56,836 Speaker 2: tell in the moment which direction he's going to go, 355 00:23:57,516 --> 00:24:01,036 Speaker 2: then it makes logical sense for your own physical safety 356 00:24:01,396 --> 00:24:03,316 Speaker 2: just to assume that your father is always going to 357 00:24:03,356 --> 00:24:07,036 Speaker 2: be hostile. But when you take that assumption into the 358 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:11,956 Speaker 2: real world as a playground, us into classrooms, into the workplace, 359 00:24:12,516 --> 00:24:16,316 Speaker 2: it doesn't work. It makes you a bully, a pariah. 360 00:24:17,076 --> 00:24:23,076 Speaker 2: It makes even routine interactions deeply problematic. And nowhere is 361 00:24:23,196 --> 00:24:28,076 Speaker 2: this dysfunction more problematic than policing, of course, because if 362 00:24:28,156 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 2: you are a police officer whose early life and experience 363 00:24:31,676 --> 00:24:34,676 Speaker 2: has left them impaired in that way, who, as a result, 364 00:24:34,836 --> 00:24:39,196 Speaker 2: makes hostile attributions all the time, then how can you 365 00:24:39,276 --> 00:24:43,756 Speaker 2: be a police officer. I don't know what Chauvin's upbringing 366 00:24:43,916 --> 00:24:46,076 Speaker 2: was like, but I know when I saw the tape 367 00:24:46,116 --> 00:24:49,916 Speaker 2: again after talking to Dodge, I wondered if Chauvin wasn't 368 00:24:49,996 --> 00:24:53,676 Speaker 2: just someone like Rocky, all grown up. And the one 369 00:24:53,716 --> 00:24:58,116 Speaker 2: thing Rocky can't be is a police officer, because being 370 00:24:58,156 --> 00:25:00,916 Speaker 2: good at that job relies may be more than almost 371 00:25:00,996 --> 00:25:04,356 Speaker 2: any other profession on being able to distinguish in the 372 00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:07,596 Speaker 2: heat of a moment, between a hostile act and an 373 00:25:07,636 --> 00:25:11,076 Speaker 2: ambiguous act, between someone who is struggling because they can't 374 00:25:11,156 --> 00:25:15,196 Speaker 2: breathe and someone who is struggling because they are resisting arrest, 375 00:25:15,756 --> 00:25:18,516 Speaker 2: between someone who says I'm going to die because they're 376 00:25:18,516 --> 00:25:21,916 Speaker 2: trying to trick you, and someone who says I'm going 377 00:25:21,996 --> 00:25:25,516 Speaker 2: to die because they are in fact going to die. 378 00:25:26,716 --> 00:25:29,836 Speaker 2: If you can't do that, then you can only interpret 379 00:25:29,876 --> 00:25:32,716 Speaker 2: the world one way. Then, in the middle of a 380 00:25:32,796 --> 00:25:36,276 Speaker 2: fast evolving situation, when there is new information coming in 381 00:25:36,356 --> 00:25:39,356 Speaker 2: all the time, you have only one way to interpret 382 00:25:39,396 --> 00:25:46,036 Speaker 2: it a threat. In the course of the investigation into 383 00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:49,716 Speaker 2: the death of George Floyd, a second case came to light. 384 00:25:50,636 --> 00:25:54,916 Speaker 2: It happened in twenty seventeen, three years earlier. A woman 385 00:25:55,076 --> 00:25:58,556 Speaker 2: calls nine one one. She says her son has assaulted her. 386 00:25:59,236 --> 00:26:02,196 Speaker 2: The police arrive talk to the woman at length. She 387 00:26:02,276 --> 00:26:04,356 Speaker 2: says her son is down the hall in his room. 388 00:26:05,076 --> 00:26:07,956 Speaker 2: In the bodycam footage, you can see the officers walk 389 00:26:08,036 --> 00:26:10,396 Speaker 2: down the hallway. The boy is on the floor of 390 00:26:10,436 --> 00:26:14,556 Speaker 2: his bedroom on the phone. He's fourteen. The lead officer 391 00:26:14,596 --> 00:26:17,556 Speaker 2: in the group is lean in his forties with a 392 00:26:17,596 --> 00:26:23,876 Speaker 2: passive demeanor. It's Derek Chauvin. The officers enter the room 393 00:26:24,596 --> 00:26:27,876 Speaker 2: tell him he's under arrest. He says his mom was drunk. 394 00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:32,036 Speaker 2: He gets up reluctantly. His voice is calm, he doesn't 395 00:26:32,116 --> 00:26:35,796 Speaker 2: act out, He's not aggressive. He says his mother had 396 00:26:35,836 --> 00:26:38,356 Speaker 2: done this before called the police when she's the one 397 00:26:38,396 --> 00:26:41,356 Speaker 2: who has a problem. That's why his uncle left the house, 398 00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:45,116 Speaker 2: he says. He seems genuinely confused as to why he 399 00:26:45,196 --> 00:26:49,956 Speaker 2: should be the one under arrest. He's a teenager, John, 400 00:26:49,996 --> 00:26:52,916 Speaker 2: don't you come on here, that's Chauvin, Alice. 401 00:26:55,036 --> 00:27:01,516 Speaker 13: I'm fine, but you just stand up for me. You're 402 00:27:01,556 --> 00:27:05,116 Speaker 13: under ust, so stand up. I'm yeah, you are. Stand 403 00:27:05,236 --> 00:27:05,756 Speaker 13: up my mom. 404 00:27:05,836 --> 00:27:06,356 Speaker 5: He's drunk. 405 00:27:06,476 --> 00:27:07,516 Speaker 7: You can quite her. 406 00:27:08,356 --> 00:27:12,316 Speaker 13: Stand up? Fed me, stand up. I'm not gonna I'm 407 00:27:12,356 --> 00:27:15,036 Speaker 13: not gonna ask you any more time. You can't arrest me, 408 00:27:15,636 --> 00:27:18,396 Speaker 13: stand up, ask my sister. Stand up. I'm not going 409 00:27:18,476 --> 00:27:19,196 Speaker 13: to ask you in again. 410 00:27:19,316 --> 00:27:22,676 Speaker 7: You can't stand up. You can't touch me my home. 411 00:27:22,756 --> 00:27:23,236 Speaker 7: Get up now. 412 00:27:24,596 --> 00:27:28,436 Speaker 2: Chauvin moves towards him, starts beating the boy over the 413 00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:31,596 Speaker 2: head with his flashlight, opening a wound over his ear 414 00:27:31,716 --> 00:27:35,596 Speaker 2: that will require stitches, puts him in a chokehold, throws 415 00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:38,916 Speaker 2: him to the ground, and then things go from bad 416 00:27:39,676 --> 00:27:41,236 Speaker 2: too much much worse. 417 00:27:42,036 --> 00:28:03,756 Speaker 7: You get your stomach now, y'all? What I say to y'all, y'all, 418 00:28:04,796 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 7: I didn't I didn't. 419 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:09,276 Speaker 3: Know. 420 00:28:16,036 --> 00:28:30,716 Speaker 2: Then his mother enters the rooman Chauvin crouches down next 421 00:28:30,756 --> 00:28:32,916 Speaker 2: to the prone boy and puts his knee on the 422 00:28:32,956 --> 00:28:38,276 Speaker 2: boy's neck. Then he just sits there. There are at 423 00:28:38,356 --> 00:28:41,676 Speaker 2: least six officers at the scene at this point. Most 424 00:28:41,716 --> 00:28:44,036 Speaker 2: of them have filed out of the room as if 425 00:28:44,076 --> 00:28:47,636 Speaker 2: they can't stomach what's happening. One of the remaining officers 426 00:28:47,916 --> 00:28:52,356 Speaker 2: turns his body cam to the wall. Chauvin keeps his 427 00:28:52,516 --> 00:28:56,436 Speaker 2: knee on the boy's neck for fifteen minutes. Even after 428 00:28:56,476 --> 00:28:59,396 Speaker 2: the paramedics arrived and the boy explains to them that 429 00:28:59,516 --> 00:29:02,036 Speaker 2: he blacked out after he was choked and that his 430 00:29:02,196 --> 00:29:07,916 Speaker 2: ear is bleeding, Chauvin remains on the boy's neck, frozen. 431 00:29:13,316 --> 00:29:16,436 Speaker 2: The boy is eventually rescued and he's finally able to 432 00:29:16,476 --> 00:29:22,156 Speaker 2: get up and walk away. I have watched that bodycam 433 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:25,676 Speaker 2: footage more times than I can count, and every time 434 00:29:25,876 --> 00:29:28,636 Speaker 2: I find myself crying at the end in a way 435 00:29:28,676 --> 00:29:32,076 Speaker 2: that I never did with George Floyd. Not because it's 436 00:29:32,156 --> 00:29:35,836 Speaker 2: worse than George Floyd, because of course it isn't, but 437 00:29:35,996 --> 00:29:39,716 Speaker 2: because it's about a boy, and it was all recorded 438 00:29:39,756 --> 00:29:44,796 Speaker 2: on tape years before it happened again. A former US 439 00:29:44,836 --> 00:29:49,316 Speaker 2: attorney named Amanda Sertich examined the video while prosecuting Chauvin 440 00:29:49,396 --> 00:29:50,756 Speaker 2: for the murder of George Floyd. 441 00:29:51,676 --> 00:29:56,116 Speaker 14: I would say the two most striking things about what's 442 00:29:56,196 --> 00:30:02,436 Speaker 14: depicted in the twenty seventeen video are first that the 443 00:30:03,796 --> 00:30:10,836 Speaker 14: minor doesn't act out in any physical way whatsoever. The 444 00:30:10,996 --> 00:30:13,636 Speaker 14: other striking thing about the video that I think is 445 00:30:13,716 --> 00:30:17,116 Speaker 14: much more visceral is how obvious it is that it's 446 00:30:17,156 --> 00:30:23,756 Speaker 14: a child being assaulted. And when former officer Chauvin has 447 00:30:23,836 --> 00:30:26,956 Speaker 14: that really strong strike on his head with the flashlight, 448 00:30:29,236 --> 00:30:32,596 Speaker 14: there's that pause that any parent who has a kid 449 00:30:32,676 --> 00:30:37,716 Speaker 14: will recognize right after a kid gets really hurt, and 450 00:30:38,796 --> 00:30:42,516 Speaker 14: then the miner says, oh, you're hurting me, and begins 451 00:30:42,556 --> 00:30:46,276 Speaker 14: to cry and sound very much like the child that 452 00:30:46,596 --> 00:30:49,596 Speaker 14: he is, and he continues to cry in the same 453 00:30:49,676 --> 00:30:52,236 Speaker 14: way over fifteen minutes, intermittently. 454 00:30:55,356 --> 00:30:59,796 Speaker 2: There's another reason I found that tape so heartbreaking, something 455 00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:03,196 Speaker 2: that I did not expect myself to feel, and something 456 00:31:03,476 --> 00:31:08,876 Speaker 2: I cannot entirely explain. I felt an overwhelming wave of 457 00:31:08,916 --> 00:31:12,876 Speaker 2: pa for Derek Chauvin, a man who sees every action 458 00:31:13,516 --> 00:31:16,756 Speaker 2: as a threat, who cannot tell the difference between fear 459 00:31:16,876 --> 00:31:20,316 Speaker 2: and aggression, who looks at a boy on his phone 460 00:31:20,636 --> 00:31:25,276 Speaker 2: in his bedroom and sees a monster that is a dark, 461 00:31:25,676 --> 00:31:31,556 Speaker 2: joyless place for anyone to find themselves imprisoned. And by 462 00:31:31,636 --> 00:31:35,196 Speaker 2: what tragic failure of administration did a man who showed 463 00:31:35,516 --> 00:31:39,076 Speaker 2: on videotape that he cannot do the single most important 464 00:31:39,116 --> 00:31:41,476 Speaker 2: thing that a police officer needs to do to be 465 00:31:41,556 --> 00:31:45,956 Speaker 2: a police officer remain on the force for three more 466 00:31:46,036 --> 00:31:54,876 Speaker 2: years until he killed someone in cold blood. That's next week. 467 00:32:10,156 --> 00:32:13,756 Speaker 2: Revision's History is produced by Nina Bird Lawrence, Lucy Sullivan, 468 00:32:14,076 --> 00:32:17,396 Speaker 2: and ben Na daph Haffrey. Our editor is Karen Shakerji. 469 00:32:17,796 --> 00:32:21,796 Speaker 2: Fact checking by Sam Russick, Engineering Nina Bird Lawrence, Mixing 470 00:32:21,876 --> 00:32:25,276 Speaker 2: and mastering on this episode by Jake Gorsky. Production support 471 00:32:25,316 --> 00:32:29,316 Speaker 2: from Luke LeMond. Thank you to mcaul Liebowitch. Our executive 472 00:32:29,316 --> 00:32:32,516 Speaker 2: producer is Jacob Smith. Special thanks to Sarah Nix and 473 00:32:32,756 --> 00:32:47,156 Speaker 2: l Hafe Credit cone I'm Malcolm Bappo. Get add free 474 00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:51,076 Speaker 2: episodes of Revision's History by subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Sign 475 00:32:51,196 --> 00:32:54,036 Speaker 2: up on the show page on Apple Podcasts, or at 476 00:32:54,076 --> 00:32:59,156 Speaker 2: pushkin dot fm slash plus. Pushkin Plus subscribers can access 477 00:32:59,236 --> 00:33:04,356 Speaker 2: ad free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content 478 00:33:04,756 --> 00:33:06,396 Speaker 2: for all Pushkin shows,