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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Coast to Coast. George nor with you,

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Speaker 1: Troy Taylor with us. Troy is a great researcher and author.

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Speaker 1: Of course, Troy, did you find a couple of witnesses

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Speaker 1: to the nineteen forty nine exorcism? I did. When I

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Speaker 1: first started researching that. It was in the late nineties,

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Speaker 1: I guess, and I was living in the Saint Louis area,

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Speaker 1: and I just got curious about the whole thing because I,

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Speaker 1: you know, i'd heard that the movie. I've seen the

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Speaker 1: movie when I was like eleven, so you know, I

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Speaker 1: was familiar with it. But then living down there, I

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Speaker 1: kept hearing about how it was based on a true story,

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Speaker 1: and I was really curious about it. Started digging into it,

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Speaker 1: and at that point there were still several people still

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Speaker 1: alive who had been involved, including who father Walter Halloran.

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Speaker 1: He had been a seminary student at the time that

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Speaker 1: the exorcism had taken place, and he was a former

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Speaker 1: football player and bower And had brought him in to

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Speaker 1: help with the exorcism to hold Roland onto the bed,

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Speaker 1: because you know, the violence involved five or six people

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Speaker 1: to hold him down, superhuman strength, right, exactly exactly, And

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Speaker 1: you know, at one point Father Halloran said that Roland

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Speaker 1: had broken his nose he'd hit him so hard. There

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Speaker 1: were other times when you know, they couldn't hold him down.

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Speaker 1: He said that he, you know, filled in a lot

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Speaker 1: of blanks for me. He said that he saw Roland

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Speaker 1: able to like spit like a thick mucus all the

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Speaker 1: way across the room eight or ten feet away with

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Speaker 1: his eyes closed, and hit people in the face and

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Speaker 1: hit him on target every time. He said that he

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Speaker 1: saw the bed lift up off the floor a few

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Speaker 1: inches that he couldn't explain. And they talked about the

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Speaker 1: smells and that kind of thing, but probably the and

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Speaker 1: you know, when he passed away in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: I assumed he was the last living witness to everything.

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Speaker 1: And then a few years ago I was contacted by

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Speaker 1: the family of a Alexeian monk who had been a

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Speaker 1: nurse at the Alexeian Brother's hospital in South Saint Louis,

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Speaker 1: where the exorcism had finally concluded, and he had been

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Speaker 1: retired many years. He was in his late eighties. His

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Speaker 1: help was very poor. He had cancer, and he knew

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Speaker 1: he was dying and had never told the story because

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Speaker 1: you know, they'd been asked to keep it quiet. But

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Speaker 1: he wanted to talk about the exorcism because he felt

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Speaker 1: like it was something that he needed to tell his

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Speaker 1: story before he died. So I went up to Milwaukee

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Speaker 1: to interview him, and that was probably, well, no, not probably.

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Speaker 1: It was the most compelling interview of any that I've

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Speaker 1: ever done, bar Nutt. I mean not this, not just

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Speaker 1: this case, but any And he told me about the

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Speaker 1: things that he saw when he was there, including the

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Speaker 1: fact that he was holding rolling down onto the bed

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Speaker 1: one evening during an exorcism, and he swore to me

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Speaker 1: that he's that the boy levitated above the bed benches. Now,

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Speaker 1: the boy two would be about eighty five right about now,

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Speaker 1: if he's still alive, right right, Well, and he's not.

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Speaker 1: He actually passed away last year, he did. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever get a chance to meet him or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I didn't meet him. I had a phone interview with

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Speaker 1: him about ten years ago or so. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he told me that I would be disappointed when when

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Speaker 1: we had the interview, but he told me that he

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Speaker 1: just didn't remember the events of the exorcism. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he remembered traveling to St. Louis. Of course, his relatives

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Speaker 1: were there. He remembered all of that, but he couldn't

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Speaker 1: remember anything that took place during the actual exorcism. He said,

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Speaker 1: people would tell him about things that he'd done or

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Speaker 1: things that had happened, and he said it was like

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Speaker 1: listening to the described someone else's life, because he just

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Speaker 1: couldn't remember any of it. Did he ever have any

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Speaker 1: events after the fact, Troy, No, he didn't. And that's

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Speaker 1: that's the thing about this. You know, anytime anybody wants

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Speaker 1: to say that it was a hoax or he was

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Speaker 1: mentally ill or something that, it doesn't explain how he

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Speaker 1: was somehow miraculously cured of all the things they think

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Speaker 1: he might have had. You know, at the end of

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Speaker 1: April in nineteen forty nine, when the exogism ended, he

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Speaker 1: went home and went on to live a very good life,

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Speaker 1: a very full life. He graduated school in college, he

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Speaker 1: got married, had a family, went to work in the

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Speaker 1: space industry. Um he actually still to this day has

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Speaker 1: a patent in his name for shielding used on rockets

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Speaker 1: so that they don't burn up in our atmosphere. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he invented that this, he went on to brilliant a

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Speaker 1: brilliant life. I guess you're not at liberty to tell

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Speaker 1: us who he was. Huh, Well, I promised I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: he How about a first name. How about just a

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Speaker 1: real first name. Well, his real first name was Ronald Ronald,

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Speaker 1: which is where they Robbie and Roland. Than that kind

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Speaker 1: of thing, because it was close and he would have family.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, he has offspring that that are around.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if they have any issues. Yeah, not that

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Speaker 1: I'm aware of. I mean that I don't know for

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Speaker 1: a fact on that. I mean, he never mentioned it

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Speaker 1: anything like that. You know, but I had only talked

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Speaker 1: to him about ten years ago, so it had been

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Speaker 1: a little while. Troy, You've covered a lot of stories,

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Speaker 1: a lot of hauntings. What does your gut tell you

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Speaker 1: about this case. Well, my gut tells me that something

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Speaker 1: definitely happened. You know, I don't believe that it was

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Speaker 1: mental illness. I don't believe it was a hoax. I

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Speaker 1: think there was something paranormal and even supernatural involved in

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Speaker 1: this case. I don't as far as would you know,

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Speaker 1: how we want to define demons. I think everybody has

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Speaker 1: their own opinion on that, and I don't think that

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Speaker 1: my definition of it would match the Catholic Church's definition

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Speaker 1: or probably you know any most people that are listening

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Speaker 1: to this, you know, I just think that they are.

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Speaker 1: You know, is something at a physical presence of some

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Speaker 1: kind inhabited this boy and caused these things to happen.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it was his fault. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why he was chosen to be possessed. For lack of

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Speaker 1: a better word, I just but I do think something happened.

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Speaker 1: I do think it's for real. I didn't always think that.

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Speaker 1: I went into this skeptically at the beginning, and I've

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Speaker 1: always tried to be objective about it. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when more and more more stuff piles up and you

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Speaker 1: spend twenty five years, you know, keep digging back into

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Speaker 1: the story. After a while, you've got to have an opinion.

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Speaker 1: And my opinion is is that something truly unexplainable happened.

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Speaker 1: Try did you ever hear this? Because I was told

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Speaker 1: that when they demolished the Election Brothers Hospital and sold

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Speaker 1: off the furniture, the bed, the credenzas for all the

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Speaker 1: rooms that the room were the exorcist to place. The

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Speaker 1: people who bought that furniture felt that they were haunted

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Speaker 1: and they got rid of it. Did you hear anything

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Speaker 1: like that there? Yeah, you know. There are a few

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Speaker 1: versions of that story, you know. And it sounds like

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Speaker 1: an urban legend to say that the room where the

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Speaker 1: exorcism took place was sealed off when it was over,

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Speaker 1: But that actually is true. All the furniture was left

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Speaker 1: in the room, a copy of the priest's diary was

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Speaker 1: left in the desk, and it was sealed off and

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Speaker 1: it was never opened again. But then when they went

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Speaker 1: to tear down the old wing of the Electing Brothers

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Speaker 1: Hospital and replace it with the new building that's there now,

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Speaker 1: when they were doing this work in nineteen seventy eight,

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Speaker 1: they broke into the room. And that was just a

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Speaker 1: construction company that was emptying things out. And there are,

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Speaker 1: as I said, a couple of versions of the story.

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Speaker 1: My favorite one, my favorite one was called to me

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Speaker 1: by a guy who I interviewed. He had contacted me

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Speaker 1: after I was on some program, and he told me

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Speaker 1: that he had been a mover worked for a moving

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Speaker 1: company and he was asked to come to a rectory

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Speaker 1: in Saint Louis. They were getting ready to close that

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Speaker 1: rectory combine it with another one, and he was taken

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Speaker 1: down into the basement. One of the priests who was there,

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Speaker 1: who refused to go in the room, told him that

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Speaker 1: they needed to take out a bed, a dresser, a desk,

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Speaker 1: and a nightstand out of the room because it had

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Speaker 1: been in the exorcist room at the hospital and they

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Speaker 1: were supposed to take it to a storage facility that

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Speaker 1: was across the from the main gates of Scott Air

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Speaker 1: Force Base over by Bellviller. Yeah, and that he was

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Speaker 1: told to take it there, and that you know, the

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Speaker 1: priests refused to come into the room. They were all

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Speaker 1: terrified of it. They didn't want anything to do with it.

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Speaker 1: And he swears to me that the furniture from the

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Speaker 1: room is still sitting in that storage facility. That I

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Speaker 1: don't know. And I've heard the story that you mentioned too.

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Speaker 1: There are people who say that they had it and

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Speaker 1: they were to buy it. There was also a story

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Speaker 1: that said it was put into the attic of a

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Speaker 1: nursing home not far from the hospital, and that no

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Speaker 1: one would go into the attic of a nursing home

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Speaker 1: so it's hard to say where it went. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of stories, and I've never been able to

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Speaker 1: nail down exactly which one is absolutely true. And the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church takes exorcisms very seriously. They've got a whole

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Speaker 1: staff in the Vatican devoted to it. They trained priests

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Speaker 1: about it. Do other religions do this too, or is

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Speaker 1: it just the Catholic Church. Well, the Catholic Church is

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Speaker 1: the one has really become famous for it in the

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Speaker 1: you know, in the Western world. I think that every

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Speaker 1: faith has something like this, something to do with possessions

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Speaker 1: and removing you spirits from a person's body. I know

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Speaker 1: that it's part of Native American lore. I know that

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Speaker 1: is part of African lore. I'm sure South America probably

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Speaker 1: has something. I think it's a worldwide thing. I think

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Speaker 1: there has been a belief in these kinds of spirits

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Speaker 1: that can inhabit people's bodies since I'd see the beginning

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Speaker 1: of recorded time, if not before. There have always been

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Speaker 1: stories of these beings, whether you call them angels or

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Speaker 1: demons or old gods or whatever you want to call them,

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Speaker 1: They've been around, and it's just that the Catholics have

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Speaker 1: become really famous for it. And you know, these days,

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Speaker 1: if you talk about something like that, usually they will

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Speaker 1: hear you towards the Catholics because they seem to have

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Speaker 1: a i don't know, a more of a ritual, a

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Speaker 1: better handle on it. I suppose of everything that you've

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Speaker 1: investigated beyond the exorcism case, what else has really captured

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Speaker 1: your imagination and attention. Well, I, oh gosh, I dig

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Speaker 1: into so many things and just whatever kind of sparks

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Speaker 1: my fancy. And I've always been I mean, American Hauntings

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Speaker 1: was kind of founded on the idea of, you know

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Speaker 1: that the rise of the spirit world, as you mentioned

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Speaker 1: at the very beginning. So I've always been fascinated with

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Speaker 1: spiritualism and how it got started in the eighteen forties

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Speaker 1: and the effect that it's had on American history, and

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Speaker 1: that comes in many different forms. I've always been growing

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Speaker 1: up in Central Illinois, I've always been, you know, almost

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Speaker 1: obsessed with Abraham Lincoln and his connection to the spirit world.

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Speaker 1: And I've been always fascinated with the Belwich of Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's really an original American ghost story. So

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Speaker 1: I mean, you really it'd be hard to name something,

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Speaker 1: you know, the Limp family in Saint Louis. It'd be

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Speaker 1: hard to name something I haven't become obsessed over at

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Speaker 1: some point or another over the last twenty five years

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Speaker 1: or so. Well, it's amazing now you do a lot

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Speaker 1: of tours, but I guess COVID has slowed that down

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Speaker 1: for a little bit. Huh, Yeah, I did. You know,

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Speaker 1: we did some outdoor things, you know, in the fall

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Speaker 1: and which was nice and in the wintertime. We take

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Speaker 1: people to a lot of different places, is all over

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Speaker 1: the Midwest, and our groups are usually small enough so

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Speaker 1: that people can actually go and you know, have an experience,

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Speaker 1: you know, have a ghost time. We don't do like

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Speaker 1: meet and greets and things. It's really to take them

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Speaker 1: there so they can experience something. And those groups are

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Speaker 1: usually pretty small that we can pretty easily do that

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Speaker 1: without you know, people walking all over each other and

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Speaker 1: everybody just puts a mask on. And we haven't had

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Speaker 1: any issues, thankfully. Oh that's good. It's amazing worth that

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Speaker 1: you've done. Why do people love haunted stories? They just

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Speaker 1: like it? Yeah, yeah, I think we can. I think

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Speaker 1: we all know. People love to be love to be unnerved.

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Speaker 1: They you know, they love to be scared. Nobody wants

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Speaker 1: to be terrified, you know. You know, we don't want

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Speaker 1: to We don't really want to run screaming out of somewhere.

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Speaker 1: But people do love to be unnerved and creeped out

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Speaker 1: by things, and I think that's part of it. I

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Speaker 1: think the obsession that everybody has with ghosts has to

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Speaker 1: do with the fact that we all hope there's something

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Speaker 1: after this life, you know, whether it be you know,

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Speaker 1: going on to another plane, or you know, in some cases,

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Speaker 1: some people maybe just want to stay around, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think that if there could be proof or

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Speaker 1: at least you know, people can be convinced that there's

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Speaker 1: you know, those hanging around spirits lingering in a place,

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Speaker 1: that that gives them some hope that, you know, there

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Speaker 1: is a there is another life after this one. I

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Speaker 1: think those two things sort of combine. But you know,

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Speaker 1: we get a lot of people who just want to

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Speaker 1: have an experience. They want something to be real, you know,

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Speaker 1: they want they hear all the stories, they read the stories,

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Speaker 1: you know, they hear about what other people have experienced,

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Speaker 1: and they want that for themselves, and then sometimes they

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Speaker 1: regret it later on. But for the most part, I

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Speaker 1: think people just want to have an experience. Well, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned the Limp Mansion in the you know, the folks

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Speaker 1: who aren't that familiar with Saint Louis. Saint Louis is

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Speaker 1: a beer capital. We've got Anheuser Bush here. And then

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Speaker 1: years ago we had Limp Brewery l Emp. And I

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Speaker 1: was told Troy that at least three suicides were done

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Speaker 1: at the Lamp mansion. And did you hear that? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that is true. William Limp, who was the son of

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Speaker 1: the brewery's founder and then later the company was named

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Speaker 1: after him, he committed suicide there in nineteen o four.

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Speaker 1: His son, who was going to be the one that

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Speaker 1: took over the company, Frederick had died at two years earlier,

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Speaker 1: and he'd gone into a depression just started to come

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Speaker 1: out of it. And then his best friend, who was

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Speaker 1: Frederick Papps of the Paps Brewery, That's right, right, he

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Speaker 1: died and I guess that was all William could take

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Speaker 1: and he committed suicide there. Later on, his son, his

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Speaker 1: son William Junior Billy, would commit suicide there in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty two, and then his son ARLs would commit suicide

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Speaker 1: there in the late forties. So there were three suicides

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Speaker 1: and then there was the daughter, Elsa, who is believed

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Speaker 1: to have committed suicide. But I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of and that's again one of those things I've been

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Speaker 1: obsessed about over the years. But there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: evidence to show that she may not have committed suicide,

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Speaker 1: that she might have been murdered. But even so, that's

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Speaker 1: four members of the immediate family who died within a

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Speaker 1: couple of decades of each other. And it kind of

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Speaker 1: put the dark spin on that house. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful house. The mansion is still there. Well, the

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Speaker 1: brewery is still there, it just hasn't been a brewery

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Speaker 1: since the nineteen twenty well, and the house is used

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Speaker 1: for Halloween. Now people go in there. You're in Halloween,

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Speaker 1: right right. I mean, you can go there and have dinner.

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Speaker 1: You can go there and stay the night if you

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Speaker 1: want to use it as a restaurant. In an end,

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Speaker 1: voots great, overnight stays great, as long as you don't

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Speaker 1: get you know, waken. You can buy a ghost in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. I disposed, but it is regarded,

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Speaker 1: I believe, one of the most haunted places in the country.

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Speaker 1: I've lost count of how many times I've been there

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Speaker 1: that the nights stayed there, and you know, have even

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Speaker 1: had some minor experiences. Nothing I you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a psychic. I don't see dead people. It's it's me

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Speaker 1: going to places, you know, being like as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: other people, wanting to have an experience. And you know,

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Speaker 1: there have been a few times when I've had some things,

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Speaker 1: minor things happened there, footsteps on the stairs, you know,

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Speaker 1: doors open and closed kind of thing. But do think

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Speaker 1: it's I do think it's an active spot. Have you

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Speaker 1: ever been scared on an event? Oh? Yeah, Well, not

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Speaker 1: always on the events, because if I'm at an event,

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Speaker 1: I'm usually got my mind on making sure that the

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Speaker 1: people who are there have had a good time. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been plenty of times I've been scared, you know,

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Speaker 1: on my own, you know, going to check out a

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Speaker 1: place or experience in the first time. Well, in fact,

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Speaker 1: the only time I've ever actually seen a ghost was

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Speaker 1: at the Waverley Hills Sanatorium, Kentucky and I was there

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Speaker 1: got too, almost twenty years ago now, and they hadn't

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Speaker 1: opened it the public yet. But a buddy of mine

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Speaker 1: had an end with the owners and they were he

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Speaker 1: was doing a lot of the help cleaning the place

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Speaker 1: up things. So he took me on a private tour

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Speaker 1: one night, just he and I in the building and

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Speaker 1: we were walking down a hallway on the fourth floor

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Speaker 1: and we're just strolling along, chatting as we're walking through

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Speaker 1: the hall and a man walked out of the doorway

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Speaker 1: on the left hand side of the hallway and just

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Speaker 1: walked straight across, never looked at us, went into the

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Speaker 1: doorway on the right hand side, and I had a

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Speaker 1: I think I probably came the closest I've ever had

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Speaker 1: to a heart attack. It was a ghost. I really

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Speaker 1: thought it was it. He just looked completely solid. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was a guy who had just broken into

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Speaker 1: a building or something. And you know, my buddy said,

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Speaker 1: oh man, we gotta get this guy out of here,

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Speaker 1: you know. So we walked down at the doorway. We

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Speaker 1: walked inside, you telling me asked to leave. The room

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Speaker 1: is empty and there's no other door. And I realized

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Speaker 1: that I had just seen a ghost. And I said

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Speaker 1: to my buddy, I said, Okay, well, I think our

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Speaker 1: tours over tonight. So that was enough for me. But

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Speaker 1: it's freaky, you know, Yeah, it was freaky, all right. Listen,

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Speaker 1: to more. Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at one

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Speaker 1: am Eastern and go to Coast to Coast am dot

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Speaker 1: com for more