Speaker 1: Bok No Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and.
Speaker 2: I'm Eric Balchunis.
Speaker 1: There is this headline that jumped out at me the
Speaker 1: moment I saw it. It was a big take from
Speaker 1: our colleagues Danizza Takova and Veldonajdrik. It describes something called
Speaker 1: a quick buck ETF and that immediately made me go,
Speaker 1: we got to talk to them and a character in
Speaker 1: the story, but you know, set the table for us.
Speaker 1: What is a quick buck ETF? According to Eric Baltunis, well.
Speaker 2: Look, over the years, there's been a sort of movement
Speaker 2: to launch kind of unusual products. So try to get
Speaker 2: very creative for the ETF industry. Why the core of
Speaker 2: the portfolio? A lot of people go to like cheap
Speaker 2: index funds and you can't really compete there. What are
Speaker 2: you gonna do? Launch like a two basis point SMP
Speaker 2: five hundred, hang Guard and Blackrock own the core. So
Speaker 2: what a lot of issuers are doing is trying to
Speaker 2: innovate their way to something different and new. Some are
Speaker 2: innovating on the buffer side to sort of ease worry
Speaker 2: for older investors, and some are innovating to try to
Speaker 2: appeal to younger investors and retail investors who may favor
Speaker 2: income over total returns or in some cases a lot
Speaker 2: of leverage. We call it packaged adrenaline. So on that front,
Speaker 2: we have this, you know, sort of phrase we call
Speaker 2: hot sauce, and we have there's like six different flavors
Speaker 2: of hot sauce, and one of them are these I
Speaker 2: call them yield boost that's the brand name of one
Speaker 2: of them. But the yield Boosters, this one firm went
Speaker 2: from like no money at the beginning of the year
Speaker 2: to like four billion, and every product has inflows and
Speaker 2: they just write call options barely out of the money,
Speaker 2: so you give up almost all your upside, but you
Speaker 2: get a giant fat yield. So some of them yield
Speaker 2: over one hundred percent. So it's just another example of
Speaker 2: how the ETF industry is a big tent serving many
Speaker 2: different people, and this is one sort of evolution in
Speaker 2: what I call the hot sauce bucket.
Speaker 1: We're going to be speaking with Denisa and Veldona, our
Speaker 1: cross asset reporters with Bloomberg News, as well as one
Speaker 1: of our sources, Todd Can. You can find him on
Speaker 1: YouTube at Unconventional Wealth Ideas, this time on trillions quick
Speaker 1: buck ETFs. Deniza Veldonna Todd, Welcome to Trillions.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having.
Speaker 4: Me, Thanks for having me, thanks for having us.
Speaker 1: Okay, Denise, I want to start with you. How did
Speaker 1: you spot what became this story?
Speaker 4: Well, we saw we look at Reddit, and we look
Speaker 4: at one of the firms, field Max, which Eric mentioned earlier,
Speaker 4: and he'd already had ten thousands readitors tweeting about it
Speaker 4: every day, talking about it every day. And then we
Speaker 4: looked at the inflows and the growth was incredible. Just
Speaker 4: to give you an example, their first CDs was just
Speaker 4: two years ago and this year they launched nearly twenty
Speaker 4: products anything you can imagine. They have single stock products,
Speaker 4: they have inverse in those talk products that generate income,
Speaker 4: and then we realized that there is a much broader
Speaker 4: universe there. First, they charge us higher than average fees.
Speaker 4: We often see fees in the range of one percent
Speaker 4: in those products. So we saw a lot of new
Speaker 4: issues being part of that movement. We looked at the
Speaker 4: data and actually at the broader universe of the rialties
Speaker 4: and enhanced product We saw over one hundred and sixty launches,
Speaker 4: which is a record high. We looked at the assets
Speaker 4: under management and it's just the growth is so rapid.
Speaker 4: It reached three hundred billion, and just five years ago
Speaker 4: it was like fifty billion. So the more you looked
Speaker 4: into the space, the more you found the social media marketing,
Speaker 4: the long YouTube videos, like a whole universe of people
Speaker 4: that engage into this community daily that call it a
Speaker 4: yield community that you know, there are hundreds of products
Speaker 4: they talk about and compare and discuss. So it's really
Speaker 4: something that's been growing by the day. We run the
Speaker 4: data at the beginning of the story, and we pretty
Speaker 4: much had to update it every day because there were
Speaker 4: so many launches coming. Some of them had like twenty
Speaker 4: five products in them. So it's just like insane amount
Speaker 4: of products that are coming to the market at a
Speaker 4: very rapid base.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, Dona tell us more about what the products
Speaker 1: are and what an investor might hope to accomplish with them.
Speaker 5: So, as the NITSA mentioned, there's more than one hundred
Speaker 5: and sixty new ones just so far this year, which
Speaker 5: is a record high for the number of new We
Speaker 5: call them in the story derivatives enhanced exchange traded funds.
Speaker 5: You can divide them, as Eric does, into a number
Speaker 5: of different categories. We focused on two main categories in
Speaker 5: the story. One is the ones that have like the
Speaker 5: options overlays that then have these hefty yields, these hefty payouts,
Speaker 5: and another one is the single stock version, so those
Speaker 5: are levered or inverse funds that focus on just one company.
Speaker 5: One of the most popular ones is based on Navidia
Speaker 5: No Surprise. This year, and we mentioned in the story
Speaker 5: its assets grew from like two hundred million at the
Speaker 5: start of the year to five billion dollars currently, So
Speaker 5: just a tremendous amount of money is going towards anything
Speaker 5: that can sort of catch people's attention these days. Obviously,
Speaker 5: then Navidio one is actually a really good example because
Speaker 5: Navidia has the stock itself has been doing so well,
Speaker 5: and so then what people do is turn towards some
Speaker 5: of these ETFs that can amp up these returns and
Speaker 5: just juice things up even further and make things more exciting.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the launches are because you've got
Speaker 2: to cover all these stocks, so there's going to be
Speaker 2: like dozens and dozens of these over the years. I
Speaker 2: think Granted Shares has a filing to do this sort
Speaker 2: of yield boost thing. I think their firm is called
Speaker 2: yield Boost yield Boost, Yes, and they're going to do
Speaker 2: like three x q's yield boosts. So they're gonna do
Speaker 2: yield boost thing on something already really boosted. And I
Speaker 2: also noticed something funny about this. In Canada, there's an
Speaker 2: issue called there's an issue called Yield Maximizer, and their
Speaker 2: product line was Yield in all caps, but then Maximizer
Speaker 2: was in capital M and then lowercase, and they had
Speaker 2: an official name change for all their funds. And normally
Speaker 2: when you see that the name changes like dramatically or substantially.
Speaker 2: They just wanted to capitalize maximizer, so they and that's
Speaker 2: what I got a feeling that there's this like sort
Speaker 2: of race to package and push the envelope. I think
Speaker 2: of that top gun meme need for speed. You know,
Speaker 2: there is just a market for volatility, big numbers, and
Speaker 2: it's a you know, largely retail traders who are looking
Speaker 2: for this.
Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of retail trader, so I'm going to bring
Speaker 1: Todd Akenn here. Todd, you are a retail trader and
Speaker 1: you have a growing YouTube channel. Talk to us about
Speaker 1: how you got into this specific type of ETF.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me everyone once again. And well,
Speaker 3: when I started Unconventional wealth Ideas, I was investing in
Speaker 3: the more traditional kinds of ETFs, and then subscribers would
Speaker 3: bring yield max and these other ideas to me, and
Speaker 3: then I realized that not only is it a way
Speaker 3: to get more attention of my videos, but I thought, well,
Speaker 3: maybe there's a way to actually make this investment viable
Speaker 3: and work for everyone. And so it doesn't really work
Speaker 3: for others because they don't really play them right. But
Speaker 3: if you use them properly and you blend them with
Speaker 3: other ETFs that give you the growth so you don't
Speaker 3: have as much nabdicate, then you can kind of get
Speaker 3: an overall blend of ETFs that help you outperform the market.
Speaker 1: Talk to us about the specific products that you've used
Speaker 1: and what kind of experience you've had.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the first ETFs that came out were Tesla,
Speaker 3: and you know the more popular stocks that everyone trades,
Speaker 3: Tesla and Video. So we had Tesley and vide and
Speaker 3: Tesla was struggling with its stock price. So tes Lee
Speaker 3: was not liked by many people in the community. They
Speaker 3: kept saying, the nab erosion is so bad. And how
Speaker 3: are you ever going to get back to even on this,
Speaker 3: you know, with this investment. But I'm always from the
Speaker 3: camp that if you hold your dividends long enough, you'll
Speaker 3: eventually cash flow. But the key with Tesli is that
Speaker 3: you can't live out of it because if you're trying
Speaker 3: to live out of Tesli and live free from your
Speaker 3: nine to five with things like Tesli, well, that obviously
Speaker 3: has too much volatility. It drops, it can be a
Speaker 3: widow maker in your account by itself. And so you know,
Speaker 3: you don't want to have too much stock exposure anyway
Speaker 3: with any one stock. You want to stay with the indexes.
Speaker 3: So Tesla just had bad luck, you know, and share
Speaker 3: prices down. So Tesley was was not a favorite for others.
Speaker 3: But if you hold it long enough, you'll come out
Speaker 3: on top, you know, if you hold it long enough.
Speaker 3: And so that's my belief is well, cash flow eventually,
Speaker 3: but in the meantime, in the meantime, how can you
Speaker 3: still get performance and not only outperform the markets, but
Speaker 3: withdraw freely out of your account without it cannibalizing your account.
Speaker 3: So we combine it with other yield max ETFs that
Speaker 3: actually grow, you know, some other yield Max stocks have
Speaker 3: been doing doing well. In VIDI was doing well. It
Speaker 3: was moving upward left right on its chart, so even
Speaker 3: though it was it had a huge dividend, you're still
Speaker 3: getting some growth. So people were really happy with NVIDI,
Speaker 3: not happy with Tesli, and I just started, you know,
Speaker 3: diversifying my portfolio out with the you know, Amazon's apples
Speaker 3: of the world through yield Max, and then they came
Speaker 3: out with their fund of funds, which helped give a
Speaker 3: little bit more diversification and stability with volatility, but still
Speaker 3: that it wasn't quite enough to live out of your
Speaker 3: account with. You have to combine it with some of
Speaker 3: these other funds that have come, you know, out to
Speaker 3: the market. Now. Like you know, y'all mentioned yield Boost,
Speaker 3: there's also defiance and rec shares and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: which all help balance out your portfolio a little bit better.
Speaker 4: And I think something that Total also mentioned there is
Speaker 4: such a wide variety of products. And we talked a
Speaker 4: lot about the smaller firms that have been around for
Speaker 4: just a few years. But for example, one of the
Speaker 4: biggest products is coming from JP Morgan Acid Management, and
Speaker 4: during twenty twenty two, that product actually worked quite well.
Speaker 4: There's obviously a massive sell of and due to the
Speaker 4: covered code nature, they manage to outperform the SMP and
Speaker 4: Acid jumped to seventeen billion. I think they kind of
Speaker 4: tripled in twenty twenty two, which you know was a
Speaker 4: year when people were staying away, you know, staying in cash,
Speaker 4: being careful and JEPI got that popularity. So we have
Speaker 4: those big players actually running some of the biggest products now.
Speaker 4: Is thirty six billion obviously really really big TTF, A
Speaker 4: lot of options, people are writing about it whatever it's rebouncing,
Speaker 4: so it has its own power and importance in the market.
Speaker 4: Goldman is also having similar products. A lot of the
Speaker 4: big issuers are working on them, whether it's Buffer, whether
Speaker 4: it's covered CO. They're less likely to engage with retail,
Speaker 4: even though we've seen some of the portfolio managers like
Speaker 4: Hamilton Reiner, you know, I've seen a few videos of
Speaker 4: him on YouTube engaging with some of them. But it's
Speaker 4: really those mainstream products like eield Max, like Tidal, they're
Speaker 4: really encouraging that interaction with retail traders. And something they're
Speaker 4: saying is a lot of maybe the big names like
Speaker 4: JP Morgan and you know, big financial institutions are maybe
Speaker 4: underestimating retail traders. You are not going directly to them,
Speaker 4: so they find this is a way to market and
Speaker 4: reach a new audience. And indeed they're seeing big impact
Speaker 4: from it. After each video they appear, they're saying, oh,
Speaker 4: we're seeing more inflows after we go on YouTube. So
Speaker 4: it tells you a lot about how the ETF industry
Speaker 4: is changing.
Speaker 2: Jeffy, which is the JP Morgan equity premium income, I
Speaker 2: would call that more conservative. That's writing call options way
Speaker 2: out of the money, right, so you get some upside,
Speaker 2: you get a little income like eight nine percent. As
Speaker 2: you said, those I think are really appealing to older investors,
Speaker 2: but some younger One guy on our team we call
Speaker 2: him Jeffy. Jackie loves that ETF and I likes JEFFQ.
Speaker 2: But I think what the yield Max and yield Boost
Speaker 2: people did to say, oh, that's an interesting idea, but
Speaker 2: why don't we write calls right here? Or why don't
Speaker 2: we do a straddle? And this is how the ETF
Speaker 2: industry progresses. Like the first smart beta ETF was very general.
Speaker 2: Let's wait by price to earnings and we're screened by that,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you get ones that have, like,
Speaker 2: you know, twenty five different criteria. Now, so when it
Speaker 2: comes to these ETFs, I want to ask Todd a
Speaker 2: question about this. If you buy Tesla Tesla tsly, that's
Speaker 2: the one that writes call options just out of it,
Speaker 2: are you making a call that Tesla won't go up
Speaker 2: because you are giving up a lot of your I
Speaker 2: mean almost all your upside so you do get this dividend,
Speaker 2: so I guess you have to believe Tesla's not going
Speaker 2: to go on some big run. And then the second
Speaker 2: thing is dividends are taxes ordinary income. I was having
Speaker 2: a conversation with someone says, actually might be more tax
Speaker 2: efficient to take a stock you've held for a year
Speaker 2: and just sell small increments of it and almost pretend
Speaker 2: that's your dividend to be tax less. What do you
Speaker 2: think about both those?
Speaker 5: Todd?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, so they have vehicles that they combine, you know,
Speaker 3: you can combine with the test lead to get your upside,
Speaker 3: like a t SLL. I don't know if that's granted shares,
Speaker 3: but y'all were mentioning yield boost before, and so there
Speaker 3: are vehicles that you can use to get your upside.
Speaker 3: I mean me myself. I will buy a little bit
Speaker 3: of Tesla stock or sell put options on Tesla to
Speaker 3: get more upside appreciation and lower my risk a little
Speaker 3: bit there, and then I'll buy test Lead just for
Speaker 3: the income. And obviously my big thing at my channel
Speaker 3: is I stick with the index. Is where Tesla is
Speaker 3: a large part of let's say the nasadack, it's a
Speaker 3: pretty good chunk of it. So I don't mind putting
Speaker 3: the most the bulk of my money in things like Cornerstone,
Speaker 3: which is you know, like JEPI is one of my
Speaker 3: one of my favorites. That's a that's a crowd favorite.
Speaker 3: It's more conservative, but Cornerstone was one of the first
Speaker 3: ever you know, they've been around since the eighties. And
Speaker 3: that's where I get a lot of my perform hormans.
Speaker 3: That's index. So I don't have to reach reach for
Speaker 3: a Tesla or any stock specific gains I can. I
Speaker 3: can put it in something like a Cornerstone CRFCLM, and
Speaker 3: then that gives me not only the index exposure that
Speaker 3: I need, but it's it's a very unique, a very
Speaker 3: unique fund. It has a twenty one percent dividend at
Speaker 3: the NAV and it drips that dividend, and it drips
Speaker 3: the twenty one percent divinitent down at NAV for free
Speaker 3: money every month. As I always say, so it's you know,
Speaker 3: if there's like an eighteen percent premium right now with
Speaker 3: Cornerstone shares to its net asset value, So when you
Speaker 3: drip that twenty one percent dividend, you're also getting that
Speaker 3: premium gain every month, which is really, you know, really interesting,
Speaker 3: and I don't know why more people don't discuss Cornerstone.
Speaker 3: It's four star rated on morning Star five stars sometimes,
Speaker 3: and so I instead of reaching for a tesla, I
Speaker 3: go with the indexes and I go with things that
Speaker 3: can help me get performance. Cornerstone moves. It has twenty
Speaker 3: percent premiums on average, and it has a twenty percent
Speaker 3: dividen and it drips it down at the NAV. So
Speaker 3: I kind of get my oun performance that way, and
Speaker 3: then I play it around It's Wright's offerings to really
Speaker 3: level up my account. But then I have Cornerstone and
Speaker 3: all these other funds that I mentioned, Rex Funds and
Speaker 3: other funds like that. But as far as the taxes go,
Speaker 3: Cornerstone is also a return of capital. So many of
Speaker 3: these funds might be a return of capital, but Cornerstone,
Speaker 3: if you don't sell those shares, you don't have to
Speaker 3: pay taxes. So that's also how I get around the
Speaker 3: taxes with you know, return of capital.
Speaker 5: I want to jump in and say, just to be
Speaker 5: super clear, like a lot of people will consider these
Speaker 5: investments really really risky. And Eric, you mentioned that they
Speaker 5: can trail. A lot of them trail they're underlying stock
Speaker 5: or they're underlying index, So you know, you'll have like
Speaker 5: the Tesla will just be underperforming by that much more
Speaker 5: versus Tesla. Even during a year when Tesla is down
Speaker 5: a lot, it'll be down even more. The same goes
Speaker 5: for you know, the coinbase one we mentioned in the story,
Speaker 5: and a lot of other ones for retail investors. For
Speaker 5: a lot of retail investors, that might not matter. Maybe
Speaker 5: they're more interested in getting that dividend income and less
Speaker 5: interested in maybe it's just not as big of a
Speaker 5: concern that something is underperforming. They want the dividend income.
Speaker 5: But I just wanted to caveat that they really are
Speaker 5: considered a lot of them are considered risky by you know,
Speaker 5: the investment community, people who watch this space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, doubt. I mean this is we have our
Speaker 2: traffic light system. These would be yellow lights. They're not
Speaker 2: quite red because there's no leverage involved. They're not rolling futures,
Speaker 2: but you are. You got to really read the fine
Speaker 2: print here and know what you're doing. I think something
Speaker 2: like a two x tesla, though that is red light
Speaker 2: because you could lose money quicker. These are a writing call.
Speaker 2: It's just it's different. Once you add leverage into the mix,
Speaker 2: then everything could go twice as fast up or down.
Speaker 2: So I think that's where these are moderately risky. But
Speaker 2: they're again I think Todd, you seem like you have
Speaker 2: a plan for this. You like this sort of mixing
Speaker 2: and the concoction of different things, and this is what
Speaker 2: you like to do every day. So I think this
Speaker 2: is the kind of template for like the kind of
Speaker 2: retail trader because remember Joel we had, Remember we had
Speaker 2: that guy on that nineteen year old who'd love to
Speaker 2: trade sqqq and tqqq but he monitored all day.
Speaker 1: It seems so long ago and quaint it does well.
Speaker 2: Honestly, that's a lot of volatility, though that guy was
Speaker 2: that's a whole other level. I think this is actually tamer.
Speaker 2: But at some point, I think, Todd, let me ask
Speaker 2: you this, like, you have fun trading, you do this
Speaker 2: stuff like at some point you know, either you do
Speaker 2: really well and you stick to it, or maybe you're like,
Speaker 2: you know, actually, I'll just buy Tesla stock or the
Speaker 2: cues and just not mess with this anymore. I do
Speaker 2: think sometimes trade do come to that, But on the flip,
Speaker 2: that's not as fun. And this is part of what
Speaker 2: we call roe returnal entertainment because a lot of people
Speaker 2: have a Core four one K. They can't touch it.
Speaker 2: You got away thirty years for it to compound. It's
Speaker 2: like watching paint dry. Actually it's watched like watching a
Speaker 2: tree grow. You would go mental looking at it every day.
Speaker 2: So they like to have fun with some stuff on
Speaker 2: the side. Is that this for you or is this
Speaker 2: like your whole nest egg? I guess. And how do
Speaker 2: you feel about that idea of do you think you'll
Speaker 2: someday come out the other end and be like, you
Speaker 2: know what, I'll just buy the stock and wait thirty years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that question, Eric. You know, for me
Speaker 3: it is it is fun to not have fomo because
Speaker 3: when you're in the indexes You'll see other stocks kind
Speaker 3: of jump up and you'll say, oh, man, I wish
Speaker 3: I was in that stock. So what yield Max and
Speaker 3: some of these funds do for me is they allow
Speaker 3: me to not have fomo. I invest a very small amount,
Speaker 3: and these kinds of vehicles like yield Max. I always say,
Speaker 3: you know, if I have one hundred thousand dollars position
Speaker 3: in this index over here, well then yield Max will
Speaker 3: be like one or two thousand dollars of my dollars
Speaker 3: towards the bottom of my portfolio. They just kind of
Speaker 3: give a little bit of extra growth for me. The
Speaker 3: whole name of the game is qualifying income. And when
Speaker 3: you mentioned your trader that did SQQQ and t QQ,
Speaker 3: I strangle those often. But my thing was the banks
Speaker 3: didn't let me get my house with those gains. They
Speaker 3: were two up and down. I needed dividends. So I
Speaker 3: go with yield Max and all these other dividend funds
Speaker 3: to give me the qualifying income I need to get
Speaker 3: loans and to live free. And if I hold them
Speaker 3: long enough again, they'll cash flow. And even though they're
Speaker 3: down at the moment, they will eventually cash flow eventually,
Speaker 3: And you know, I keep them so small to where
Speaker 3: they don't even affect my performance. They just kind of
Speaker 3: give me the fomo that i'm you know that I can,
Speaker 3: I can take care of their and they give me
Speaker 3: the qualifying income I need to live free from a
Speaker 3: nine to five.
Speaker 2: That is interesting, guy, It's a great anecdote touch.
Speaker 1: So I'm so curious about that, toddic So just in general,
Speaker 1: talk to us about how you approach a portfolio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean every day I say it in my
Speaker 3: videos to stay with the indexes. And obviously on my
Speaker 3: about a million dollars invested in my account, we're up
Speaker 3: thirty two percent for the year. Most of that is
Speaker 3: because I anchor my portfolio to Cornerstone, and then I
Speaker 3: anchor it next to Defiance and then round Hill because
Speaker 3: Roundhill gives you some of the gains that move up
Speaker 3: upward left right and you get the dividends. But Cornerstone
Speaker 3: I always tout that one because it has the lowest maintenance,
Speaker 3: which is another term. I don't know if y'all want
Speaker 3: to get into that on this podcast, but in order
Speaker 3: to withdraw out of your account, you need to have
Speaker 3: low maintenance names, and Cornerstone is such high quality that
Speaker 3: it's low maintenance, whereas a lot of yield Mac's names
Speaker 3: are low quality, so they have high maintenance, so they
Speaker 3: suck up all of your equity right off the bat.
Speaker 3: So I tried to stay with low maintenance names that
Speaker 3: are indexed near the top of my portfolio. Those give
Speaker 3: me the compounding that I need because it's easier to
Speaker 3: make ten if you have a million invested, it's easier
Speaker 3: to make one hundred thousand on ten percent on a
Speaker 3: ten percent gain then it is to invest one hundred
Speaker 3: thousand and expect a double off of one hundred thousand.
Speaker 3: So I'll let compounding do a lot of my work
Speaker 3: for me. It takes care of my taxes because the
Speaker 3: return of capital, it takes care of my risk. They
Speaker 3: minimize my volatility. And then I just keep Yieldmac small
Speaker 3: for the fun no fomo and to just give me
Speaker 3: a little bit of extra qualifying income that then pays
Speaker 3: down my margin as well, and then I'm getting extra
Speaker 3: growth obviously by using the margin that we use in
Speaker 3: my channel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's an interesting point that we discovered
Speaker 4: during our reporting that a lot of those traders are
Speaker 4: using those CTFs as part of their personal finances. Most
Speaker 4: people are taking loans. You know, some of those things
Speaker 4: are obviously quite risky, but I think a lot of
Speaker 4: it goes back to the fire movement, people generating passive income.
Speaker 4: So that's definitely a big force we're seeing on these
Speaker 4: forums and people very excited. But then this goes back
Speaker 4: to the bigger picture of like why this is happening now,
Speaker 4: And in terms of regulation, there were a lot of changes.
Speaker 4: There was the ETF through in twenty nineteen, the derivatives
Speaker 4: through in twenty twenty, so before that we really didn't
Speaker 4: have access to those products. We also saw the single
Speaker 4: stock ETFs, which have impact both on the cover code.
Speaker 4: We saw the biggest eels thanks to the single stock ETFs,
Speaker 4: and we saw the biggest leverage and biggest volatility thanks
Speaker 4: to those single stocktf So, you know, kind of wrapping
Speaker 4: up around here about the fact that what we've seen
Speaker 4: is something new, something that wasn't available to retail before.
Speaker 4: Some people are conscious about that. We even spoke to
Speaker 4: the SEC Advocate and they say they're worried about the
Speaker 4: growing complex city at a time where retail traders are
Speaker 4: so active, they're very interested in the space. The space
Speaker 4: is growing so fast. So perhaps one important point to
Speaker 4: think about it is like those products are often used.
Speaker 4: You know, they have big impact on people's lives if
Speaker 4: they're taken as a loan. And also this is something
Speaker 4: kind of new in terms of access for retail traders.
Speaker 2: Movie ratings, Joel, that solves all this.
Speaker 1: Do you like, oh, these are lights? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I know. I was not to do it because of copyright,
Speaker 2: but movie ratings are perfect. It's like, oh, these yield
Speaker 2: max is, they're PG thirteen. Okay, why well x y
Speaker 2: Z or TSL two x TESLA that's our and then
Speaker 2: there are a few beyond our. We won't go into those.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of How about this leveraged VIX futures rollers,
Speaker 2: that's the US.
Speaker 1: That's a roller coaster.
Speaker 5: Two x micro strategy.
Speaker 2: Too, yeah, two x microst Well, honestly, you have to
Speaker 2: have commodity futures rolling. The t VIX was the ultimate
Speaker 2: because it was an ATN which has credit risk. It
Speaker 2: rolled futures, and it was leveraged, and it was the VIX.
Speaker 2: It was always going to go down to negative ninety
Speaker 2: nine point nine percent. But I'm okay with this, Joel.
Speaker 2: I feel like this is a big tent the industry.
Speaker 2: The rapper is so malleable that they can really work
Speaker 2: in a lot of ideas. Some of these are going
Speaker 2: to solve real life problems. There will be a couple,
Speaker 2: you know, spots where somebody who doesn't know what they're
Speaker 2: doing steps into the wrong product, and that's that sucks.
Speaker 2: So I think you need ratings, but ultimately get ready
Speaker 2: for more of this. I mean, this is not going away.
Speaker 2: I heard from someone the sec you know, the products
Speaker 2: coming in and not just the yield Max but like
Speaker 2: the buffer which are for older people conservative. Some of
Speaker 2: those are getting really wonky and we're going to continue
Speaker 2: to see a lot of derivative use. But most of
Speaker 2: it I think will be pretty responsible. But there's definitely
Speaker 2: gonna be the fun stuff trol. I mean, that's just
Speaker 2: the it's always been this way.
Speaker 1: Todd as somebody who is so intimate with the retail
Speaker 1: crowd and the advice that you're giving to people on
Speaker 1: YouTube curious, like, what do you recommend people understand about
Speaker 1: the fine print in the perspectives while they're considering emulating
Speaker 1: what you've been able to do.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I completely agree that there's a lot of risk
Speaker 3: with these types of vehicles. So what I always say
Speaker 3: is to make sure that you match these vehicles with
Speaker 3: the percentage with the percentages that they are in the indexes.
Speaker 3: So if you have Apple, which is ten percent of
Speaker 3: the Nasdaq, or Microsoft, which is ten percent, then I
Speaker 3: didn't mind having ten percent of my portfolio and MSFO
Speaker 3: and that was doing really well. It was a nice,
Speaker 3: steady gainer, and it was doing well until they had
Speaker 3: maintenance changes. When they had maintenance changes, that sent shockwaves
Speaker 3: throughout the communities because some people were prematurely margin called
Speaker 3: just because of the maintenance change. So I would say
Speaker 3: to keep them matched at no more than they are
Speaker 3: as the as a percentage of what they traded in
Speaker 3: the indexes. And also even with that, that's still that
Speaker 3: could still be a lot of volatility in your account,
Speaker 3: because you know, you just you want to stay indexed,
Speaker 3: is what I always say. Keep them. If you're gonna
Speaker 3: buy these, make sure they're no more than the percentages
Speaker 3: that they're that they're represented in the indexes. But also
Speaker 3: just stay indexed, you know, because ninety percent of traders
Speaker 3: can't beat the S and P, and so stay indexed.
Speaker 3: Keep these positions small and make them no more than
Speaker 3: what they are represented in the indexes.
Speaker 1: All right, on that note, we're going to wrap. Deniza,
Speaker 1: Vildanna and Todd. Thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: on Trillions.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks for having.
Speaker 1: Us and that story. One hundred percent yields are fueling
Speaker 1: a retail boom and new quickbook ets. Thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Trillions. Until next time. You can find us on
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or
Speaker 1: wherever else we'd like to listen. We'd love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel webbershow He's
Speaker 1: at Eric Aultness. This episode of Trillions was produced by
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson. Bye