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Speaker 1: Bok No Trillions. I'm Joel Webber and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Eric Balchunis.

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Speaker 1: There is this headline that jumped out at me the

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Speaker 1: moment I saw it. It was a big take from

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Speaker 1: our colleagues Danizza Takova and Veldonajdrik. It describes something called

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Speaker 1: a quick buck ETF and that immediately made me go,

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Speaker 1: we got to talk to them and a character in

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Speaker 1: the story, but you know, set the table for us.

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Speaker 1: What is a quick buck ETF? According to Eric Baltunis, well.

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Speaker 2: Look, over the years, there's been a sort of movement

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Speaker 2: to launch kind of unusual products. So try to get

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Speaker 2: very creative for the ETF industry. Why the core of

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Speaker 2: the portfolio? A lot of people go to like cheap

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Speaker 2: index funds and you can't really compete there. What are

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Speaker 2: you gonna do? Launch like a two basis point SMP

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Speaker 2: five hundred, hang Guard and Blackrock own the core. So

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Speaker 2: what a lot of issuers are doing is trying to

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Speaker 2: innovate their way to something different and new. Some are

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Speaker 2: innovating on the buffer side to sort of ease worry

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Speaker 2: for older investors, and some are innovating to try to

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Speaker 2: appeal to younger investors and retail investors who may favor

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Speaker 2: income over total returns or in some cases a lot

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Speaker 2: of leverage. We call it packaged adrenaline. So on that front,

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Speaker 2: we have this, you know, sort of phrase we call

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Speaker 2: hot sauce, and we have there's like six different flavors

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Speaker 2: of hot sauce, and one of them are these I

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Speaker 2: call them yield boost that's the brand name of one

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Speaker 2: of them. But the yield Boosters, this one firm went

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Speaker 2: from like no money at the beginning of the year

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Speaker 2: to like four billion, and every product has inflows and

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Speaker 2: they just write call options barely out of the money,

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Speaker 2: so you give up almost all your upside, but you

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Speaker 2: get a giant fat yield. So some of them yield

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Speaker 2: over one hundred percent. So it's just another example of

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Speaker 2: how the ETF industry is a big tent serving many

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Speaker 2: different people, and this is one sort of evolution in

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Speaker 2: what I call the hot sauce bucket.

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Speaker 1: We're going to be speaking with Denisa and Veldona, our

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Speaker 1: cross asset reporters with Bloomberg News, as well as one

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Speaker 1: of our sources, Todd Can. You can find him on

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Speaker 1: YouTube at Unconventional Wealth Ideas, this time on trillions quick

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Speaker 1: buck ETFs. Deniza Veldonna Todd, Welcome to Trillions.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having.

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Speaker 4: Me, Thanks for having me, thanks for having us.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Denise, I want to start with you. How did

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Speaker 1: you spot what became this story?

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Speaker 4: Well, we saw we look at Reddit, and we look

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Speaker 4: at one of the firms, field Max, which Eric mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 4: and he'd already had ten thousands readitors tweeting about it

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Speaker 4: every day, talking about it every day. And then we

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Speaker 4: looked at the inflows and the growth was incredible. Just

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Speaker 4: to give you an example, their first CDs was just

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Speaker 4: two years ago and this year they launched nearly twenty

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Speaker 4: products anything you can imagine. They have single stock products,

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Speaker 4: they have inverse in those talk products that generate income,

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Speaker 4: and then we realized that there is a much broader

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Speaker 4: universe there. First, they charge us higher than average fees.

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Speaker 4: We often see fees in the range of one percent

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Speaker 4: in those products. So we saw a lot of new

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Speaker 4: issues being part of that movement. We looked at the

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Speaker 4: data and actually at the broader universe of the rialties

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Speaker 4: and enhanced product We saw over one hundred and sixty launches,

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Speaker 4: which is a record high. We looked at the assets

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Speaker 4: under management and it's just the growth is so rapid.

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Speaker 4: It reached three hundred billion, and just five years ago

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Speaker 4: it was like fifty billion. So the more you looked

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Speaker 4: into the space, the more you found the social media marketing,

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Speaker 4: the long YouTube videos, like a whole universe of people

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Speaker 4: that engage into this community daily that call it a

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Speaker 4: yield community that you know, there are hundreds of products

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Speaker 4: they talk about and compare and discuss. So it's really

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Speaker 4: something that's been growing by the day. We run the

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Speaker 4: data at the beginning of the story, and we pretty

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Speaker 4: much had to update it every day because there were

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Speaker 4: so many launches coming. Some of them had like twenty

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Speaker 4: five products in them. So it's just like insane amount

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Speaker 4: of products that are coming to the market at a

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Speaker 4: very rapid base.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, Dona tell us more about what the products

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Speaker 1: are and what an investor might hope to accomplish with them.

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Speaker 5: So, as the NITSA mentioned, there's more than one hundred

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Speaker 5: and sixty new ones just so far this year, which

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Speaker 5: is a record high for the number of new We

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Speaker 5: call them in the story derivatives enhanced exchange traded funds.

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Speaker 5: You can divide them, as Eric does, into a number

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Speaker 5: of different categories. We focused on two main categories in

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Speaker 5: the story. One is the ones that have like the

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Speaker 5: options overlays that then have these hefty yields, these hefty payouts,

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Speaker 5: and another one is the single stock version, so those

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Speaker 5: are levered or inverse funds that focus on just one company.

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Speaker 5: One of the most popular ones is based on Navidia

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Speaker 5: No Surprise. This year, and we mentioned in the story

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Speaker 5: its assets grew from like two hundred million at the

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Speaker 5: start of the year to five billion dollars currently, So

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Speaker 5: just a tremendous amount of money is going towards anything

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Speaker 5: that can sort of catch people's attention these days. Obviously,

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Speaker 5: then Navidio one is actually a really good example because

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Speaker 5: Navidia has the stock itself has been doing so well,

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Speaker 5: and so then what people do is turn towards some

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Speaker 5: of these ETFs that can amp up these returns and

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Speaker 5: just juice things up even further and make things more exciting.

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Speaker 2: And a lot of the launches are because you've got

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Speaker 2: to cover all these stocks, so there's going to be

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Speaker 2: like dozens and dozens of these over the years. I

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Speaker 2: think Granted Shares has a filing to do this sort

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Speaker 2: of yield boost thing. I think their firm is called

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Speaker 2: yield Boost yield Boost, Yes, and they're going to do

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Speaker 2: like three x q's yield boosts. So they're gonna do

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Speaker 2: yield boost thing on something already really boosted. And I

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Speaker 2: also noticed something funny about this. In Canada, there's an

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Speaker 2: issue called there's an issue called Yield Maximizer, and their

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Speaker 2: product line was Yield in all caps, but then Maximizer

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Speaker 2: was in capital M and then lowercase, and they had

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Speaker 2: an official name change for all their funds. And normally

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Speaker 2: when you see that the name changes like dramatically or substantially.

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Speaker 2: They just wanted to capitalize maximizer, so they and that's

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Speaker 2: what I got a feeling that there's this like sort

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Speaker 2: of race to package and push the envelope. I think

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Speaker 2: of that top gun meme need for speed. You know,

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Speaker 2: there is just a market for volatility, big numbers, and

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Speaker 2: it's a you know, largely retail traders who are looking

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Speaker 2: for this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, speaking of retail trader, so I'm going to bring

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Speaker 1: Todd Akenn here. Todd, you are a retail trader and

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Speaker 1: you have a growing YouTube channel. Talk to us about

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Speaker 1: how you got into this specific type of ETF.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, thanks for having me everyone once again. And well,

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Speaker 3: when I started Unconventional wealth Ideas, I was investing in

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Speaker 3: the more traditional kinds of ETFs, and then subscribers would

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Speaker 3: bring yield max and these other ideas to me, and

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Speaker 3: then I realized that not only is it a way

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Speaker 3: to get more attention of my videos, but I thought, well,

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Speaker 3: maybe there's a way to actually make this investment viable

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Speaker 3: and work for everyone. And so it doesn't really work

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Speaker 3: for others because they don't really play them right. But

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Speaker 3: if you use them properly and you blend them with

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Speaker 3: other ETFs that give you the growth so you don't

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Speaker 3: have as much nabdicate, then you can kind of get

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Speaker 3: an overall blend of ETFs that help you outperform the market.

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Speaker 1: Talk to us about the specific products that you've used

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Speaker 1: and what kind of experience you've had.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, the first ETFs that came out were Tesla,

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Speaker 3: and you know the more popular stocks that everyone trades,

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Speaker 3: Tesla and Video. So we had Tesley and vide and

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Speaker 3: Tesla was struggling with its stock price. So tes Lee

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Speaker 3: was not liked by many people in the community. They

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Speaker 3: kept saying, the nab erosion is so bad. And how

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Speaker 3: are you ever going to get back to even on this,

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Speaker 3: you know, with this investment. But I'm always from the

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Speaker 3: camp that if you hold your dividends long enough, you'll

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Speaker 3: eventually cash flow. But the key with Tesli is that

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Speaker 3: you can't live out of it because if you're trying

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Speaker 3: to live out of Tesli and live free from your

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Speaker 3: nine to five with things like Tesli, well, that obviously

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Speaker 3: has too much volatility. It drops, it can be a

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Speaker 3: widow maker in your account by itself. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't want to have too much stock exposure anyway

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Speaker 3: with any one stock. You want to stay with the indexes.

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Speaker 3: So Tesla just had bad luck, you know, and share

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Speaker 3: prices down. So Tesley was was not a favorite for others.

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Speaker 3: But if you hold it long enough, you'll come out

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Speaker 3: on top, you know, if you hold it long enough.

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Speaker 3: And so that's my belief is well, cash flow eventually,

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Speaker 3: but in the meantime, in the meantime, how can you

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Speaker 3: still get performance and not only outperform the markets, but

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Speaker 3: withdraw freely out of your account without it cannibalizing your account.

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Speaker 3: So we combine it with other yield max ETFs that

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Speaker 3: actually grow, you know, some other yield Max stocks have

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Speaker 3: been doing doing well. In VIDI was doing well. It

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Speaker 3: was moving upward left right on its chart, so even

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Speaker 3: though it was it had a huge dividend, you're still

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Speaker 3: getting some growth. So people were really happy with NVIDI,

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Speaker 3: not happy with Tesli, and I just started, you know,

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Speaker 3: diversifying my portfolio out with the you know, Amazon's apples

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Speaker 3: of the world through yield Max, and then they came

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Speaker 3: out with their fund of funds, which helped give a

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Speaker 3: little bit more diversification and stability with volatility, but still

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Speaker 3: that it wasn't quite enough to live out of your

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Speaker 3: account with. You have to combine it with some of

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Speaker 3: these other funds that have come, you know, out to

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Speaker 3: the market. Now. Like you know, y'all mentioned yield Boost,

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Speaker 3: there's also defiance and rec shares and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: which all help balance out your portfolio a little bit better.

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Speaker 4: And I think something that Total also mentioned there is

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Speaker 4: such a wide variety of products. And we talked a

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Speaker 4: lot about the smaller firms that have been around for

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Speaker 4: just a few years. But for example, one of the

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Speaker 4: biggest products is coming from JP Morgan Acid Management, and

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Speaker 4: during twenty twenty two, that product actually worked quite well.

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Speaker 4: There's obviously a massive sell of and due to the

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Speaker 4: covered code nature, they manage to outperform the SMP and

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Speaker 4: Acid jumped to seventeen billion. I think they kind of

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Speaker 4: tripled in twenty twenty two, which you know was a

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Speaker 4: year when people were staying away, you know, staying in cash,

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Speaker 4: being careful and JEPI got that popularity. So we have

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Speaker 4: those big players actually running some of the biggest products now.

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Speaker 4: Is thirty six billion obviously really really big TTF, A

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Speaker 4: lot of options, people are writing about it whatever it's rebouncing,

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Speaker 4: so it has its own power and importance in the market.

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Speaker 4: Goldman is also having similar products. A lot of the

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Speaker 4: big issuers are working on them, whether it's Buffer, whether

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Speaker 4: it's covered CO. They're less likely to engage with retail,

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Speaker 4: even though we've seen some of the portfolio managers like

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Speaker 4: Hamilton Reiner, you know, I've seen a few videos of

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Speaker 4: him on YouTube engaging with some of them. But it's

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Speaker 4: really those mainstream products like eield Max, like Tidal, they're

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Speaker 4: really encouraging that interaction with retail traders. And something they're

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Speaker 4: saying is a lot of maybe the big names like

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Speaker 4: JP Morgan and you know, big financial institutions are maybe

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Speaker 4: underestimating retail traders. You are not going directly to them,

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Speaker 4: so they find this is a way to market and

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Speaker 4: reach a new audience. And indeed they're seeing big impact

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Speaker 4: from it. After each video they appear, they're saying, oh,

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Speaker 4: we're seeing more inflows after we go on YouTube. So

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Speaker 4: it tells you a lot about how the ETF industry

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Speaker 4: is changing.

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Speaker 2: Jeffy, which is the JP Morgan equity premium income, I

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Speaker 2: would call that more conservative. That's writing call options way

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Speaker 2: out of the money, right, so you get some upside,

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Speaker 2: you get a little income like eight nine percent. As

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Speaker 2: you said, those I think are really appealing to older investors,

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Speaker 2: but some younger One guy on our team we call

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Speaker 2: him Jeffy. Jackie loves that ETF and I likes JEFFQ.

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Speaker 2: But I think what the yield Max and yield Boost

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Speaker 2: people did to say, oh, that's an interesting idea, but

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Speaker 2: why don't we write calls right here? Or why don't

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Speaker 2: we do a straddle? And this is how the ETF

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Speaker 2: industry progresses. Like the first smart beta ETF was very general.

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Speaker 2: Let's wait by price to earnings and we're screened by that,

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Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, you get ones that have, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, twenty five different criteria. Now, so when it

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Speaker 2: comes to these ETFs, I want to ask Todd a

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Speaker 2: question about this. If you buy Tesla Tesla tsly, that's

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Speaker 2: the one that writes call options just out of it,

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Speaker 2: are you making a call that Tesla won't go up

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Speaker 2: because you are giving up a lot of your I

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Speaker 2: mean almost all your upside so you do get this dividend,

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Speaker 2: so I guess you have to believe Tesla's not going

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Speaker 2: to go on some big run. And then the second

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Speaker 2: thing is dividends are taxes ordinary income. I was having

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Speaker 2: a conversation with someone says, actually might be more tax

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Speaker 2: efficient to take a stock you've held for a year

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Speaker 2: and just sell small increments of it and almost pretend

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Speaker 2: that's your dividend to be tax less. What do you

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Speaker 2: think about both those?

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Speaker 5: Todd?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, so they have vehicles that they combine, you know,

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Speaker 3: you can combine with the test lead to get your upside,

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Speaker 3: like a t SLL. I don't know if that's granted shares,

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Speaker 3: but y'all were mentioning yield boost before, and so there

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Speaker 3: are vehicles that you can use to get your upside.

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Speaker 3: I mean me myself. I will buy a little bit

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Speaker 3: of Tesla stock or sell put options on Tesla to

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Speaker 3: get more upside appreciation and lower my risk a little

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Speaker 3: bit there, and then I'll buy test Lead just for

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Speaker 3: the income. And obviously my big thing at my channel

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Speaker 3: is I stick with the index. Is where Tesla is

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Speaker 3: a large part of let's say the nasadack, it's a

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Speaker 3: pretty good chunk of it. So I don't mind putting

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Speaker 3: the most the bulk of my money in things like Cornerstone,

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Speaker 3: which is you know, like JEPI is one of my

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Speaker 3: one of my favorites. That's a that's a crowd favorite.

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Speaker 3: It's more conservative, but Cornerstone was one of the first

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Speaker 3: ever you know, they've been around since the eighties. And

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Speaker 3: that's where I get a lot of my perform hormans.

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Speaker 3: That's index. So I don't have to reach reach for

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Speaker 3: a Tesla or any stock specific gains I can. I

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Speaker 3: can put it in something like a Cornerstone CRFCLM, and

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Speaker 3: then that gives me not only the index exposure that

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Speaker 3: I need, but it's it's a very unique, a very

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Speaker 3: unique fund. It has a twenty one percent dividend at

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Speaker 3: the NAV and it drips that dividend, and it drips

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Speaker 3: the twenty one percent divinitent down at NAV for free

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Speaker 3: money every month. As I always say, so it's you know,

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Speaker 3: if there's like an eighteen percent premium right now with

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Speaker 3: Cornerstone shares to its net asset value, So when you

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Speaker 3: drip that twenty one percent dividend, you're also getting that

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Speaker 3: premium gain every month, which is really, you know, really interesting,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know why more people don't discuss Cornerstone.

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Speaker 3: It's four star rated on morning Star five stars sometimes,

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Speaker 3: and so I instead of reaching for a tesla, I

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Speaker 3: go with the indexes and I go with things that

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Speaker 3: can help me get performance. Cornerstone moves. It has twenty

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Speaker 3: percent premiums on average, and it has a twenty percent

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Speaker 3: dividen and it drips it down at the NAV. So

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Speaker 3: I kind of get my oun performance that way, and

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Speaker 3: then I play it around It's Wright's offerings to really

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Speaker 3: level up my account. But then I have Cornerstone and

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Speaker 3: all these other funds that I mentioned, Rex Funds and

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Speaker 3: other funds like that. But as far as the taxes go,

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Speaker 3: Cornerstone is also a return of capital. So many of

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Speaker 3: these funds might be a return of capital, but Cornerstone,

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Speaker 3: if you don't sell those shares, you don't have to

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Speaker 3: pay taxes. So that's also how I get around the

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Speaker 3: taxes with you know, return of capital.

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Speaker 5: I want to jump in and say, just to be

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Speaker 5: super clear, like a lot of people will consider these

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Speaker 5: investments really really risky. And Eric, you mentioned that they

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Speaker 5: can trail. A lot of them trail they're underlying stock

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Speaker 5: or they're underlying index, So you know, you'll have like

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Speaker 5: the Tesla will just be underperforming by that much more

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Speaker 5: versus Tesla. Even during a year when Tesla is down

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Speaker 5: a lot, it'll be down even more. The same goes

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Speaker 5: for you know, the coinbase one we mentioned in the story,

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Speaker 5: and a lot of other ones for retail investors. For

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Speaker 5: a lot of retail investors, that might not matter. Maybe

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Speaker 5: they're more interested in getting that dividend income and less

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Speaker 5: interested in maybe it's just not as big of a

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Speaker 5: concern that something is underperforming. They want the dividend income.

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Speaker 5: But I just wanted to caveat that they really are

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Speaker 5: considered a lot of them are considered risky by you know,

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Speaker 5: the investment community, people who watch this space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, doubt. I mean this is we have our

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Speaker 2: traffic light system. These would be yellow lights. They're not

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Speaker 2: quite red because there's no leverage involved. They're not rolling futures,

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Speaker 2: but you are. You got to really read the fine

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Speaker 2: print here and know what you're doing. I think something

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Speaker 2: like a two x tesla, though that is red light

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Speaker 2: because you could lose money quicker. These are a writing call.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's different. Once you add leverage into the mix,

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Speaker 2: then everything could go twice as fast up or down.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's where these are moderately risky. But

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Speaker 2: they're again I think Todd, you seem like you have

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Speaker 2: a plan for this. You like this sort of mixing

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Speaker 2: and the concoction of different things, and this is what

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Speaker 2: you like to do every day. So I think this

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Speaker 2: is the kind of template for like the kind of

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Speaker 2: retail trader because remember Joel we had, Remember we had

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Speaker 2: that guy on that nineteen year old who'd love to

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Speaker 2: trade sqqq and tqqq but he monitored all day.

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Speaker 1: It seems so long ago and quaint it does well.

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Speaker 2: Honestly, that's a lot of volatility, though that guy was

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Speaker 2: that's a whole other level. I think this is actually tamer.

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Speaker 2: But at some point, I think, Todd, let me ask

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Speaker 2: you this, like, you have fun trading, you do this

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Speaker 2: stuff like at some point you know, either you do

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Speaker 2: really well and you stick to it, or maybe you're like,

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Speaker 2: you know, actually, I'll just buy Tesla stock or the

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Speaker 2: cues and just not mess with this anymore. I do

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Speaker 2: think sometimes trade do come to that, But on the flip,

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Speaker 2: that's not as fun. And this is part of what

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Speaker 2: we call roe returnal entertainment because a lot of people

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Speaker 2: have a Core four one K. They can't touch it.

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Speaker 2: You got away thirty years for it to compound. It's

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Speaker 2: like watching paint dry. Actually it's watched like watching a

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Speaker 2: tree grow. You would go mental looking at it every day.

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Speaker 2: So they like to have fun with some stuff on

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Speaker 2: the side. Is that this for you or is this

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Speaker 2: like your whole nest egg? I guess. And how do

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Speaker 2: you feel about that idea of do you think you'll

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Speaker 2: someday come out the other end and be like, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I'll just buy the stock and wait thirty years.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I appreciate that question, Eric. You know, for me

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Speaker 3: it is it is fun to not have fomo because

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Speaker 3: when you're in the indexes You'll see other stocks kind

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Speaker 3: of jump up and you'll say, oh, man, I wish

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Speaker 3: I was in that stock. So what yield Max and

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Speaker 3: some of these funds do for me is they allow

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Speaker 3: me to not have fomo. I invest a very small amount,

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Speaker 3: and these kinds of vehicles like yield Max. I always say,

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Speaker 3: you know, if I have one hundred thousand dollars position

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Speaker 3: in this index over here, well then yield Max will

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Speaker 3: be like one or two thousand dollars of my dollars

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Speaker 3: towards the bottom of my portfolio. They just kind of

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Speaker 3: give a little bit of extra growth for me. The

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Speaker 3: whole name of the game is qualifying income. And when

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Speaker 3: you mentioned your trader that did SQQQ and t QQ,

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Speaker 3: I strangle those often. But my thing was the banks

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Speaker 3: didn't let me get my house with those gains. They

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Speaker 3: were two up and down. I needed dividends. So I

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Speaker 3: go with yield Max and all these other dividend funds

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Speaker 3: to give me the qualifying income I need to get

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Speaker 3: loans and to live free. And if I hold them

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Speaker 3: long enough again, they'll cash flow. And even though they're

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Speaker 3: down at the moment, they will eventually cash flow eventually,

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Speaker 3: And you know, I keep them so small to where

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Speaker 3: they don't even affect my performance. They just kind of

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Speaker 3: give me the fomo that i'm you know that I can,

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Speaker 3: I can take care of their and they give me

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Speaker 3: the qualifying income I need to live free from a

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Speaker 3: nine to five.

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Speaker 2: That is interesting, guy, It's a great anecdote touch.

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Speaker 1: So I'm so curious about that, toddic So just in general,

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Speaker 1: talk to us about how you approach a portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean every day I say it in my

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Speaker 3: videos to stay with the indexes. And obviously on my

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Speaker 3: about a million dollars invested in my account, we're up

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Speaker 3: thirty two percent for the year. Most of that is

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Speaker 3: because I anchor my portfolio to Cornerstone, and then I

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Speaker 3: anchor it next to Defiance and then round Hill because

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Speaker 3: Roundhill gives you some of the gains that move up

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Speaker 3: upward left right and you get the dividends. But Cornerstone

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Speaker 3: I always tout that one because it has the lowest maintenance,

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Speaker 3: which is another term. I don't know if y'all want

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Speaker 3: to get into that on this podcast, but in order

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Speaker 3: to withdraw out of your account, you need to have

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Speaker 3: low maintenance names, and Cornerstone is such high quality that

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Speaker 3: it's low maintenance, whereas a lot of yield Mac's names

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Speaker 3: are low quality, so they have high maintenance, so they

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Speaker 3: suck up all of your equity right off the bat.

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Speaker 3: So I tried to stay with low maintenance names that

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Speaker 3: are indexed near the top of my portfolio. Those give

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Speaker 3: me the compounding that I need because it's easier to

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Speaker 3: make ten if you have a million invested, it's easier

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Speaker 3: to make one hundred thousand on ten percent on a

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Speaker 3: ten percent gain then it is to invest one hundred

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Speaker 3: thousand and expect a double off of one hundred thousand.

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Speaker 3: So I'll let compounding do a lot of my work

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Speaker 3: for me. It takes care of my taxes because the

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Speaker 3: return of capital, it takes care of my risk. They

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Speaker 3: minimize my volatility. And then I just keep Yieldmac small

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Speaker 3: for the fun no fomo and to just give me

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Speaker 3: a little bit of extra qualifying income that then pays

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Speaker 3: down my margin as well, and then I'm getting extra

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Speaker 3: growth obviously by using the margin that we use in

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Speaker 3: my channel.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's an interesting point that we discovered

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Speaker 4: during our reporting that a lot of those traders are

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Speaker 4: using those CTFs as part of their personal finances. Most

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Speaker 4: people are taking loans. You know, some of those things

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Speaker 4: are obviously quite risky, but I think a lot of

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Speaker 4: it goes back to the fire movement, people generating passive income.

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Speaker 4: So that's definitely a big force we're seeing on these

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Speaker 4: forums and people very excited. But then this goes back

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Speaker 4: to the bigger picture of like why this is happening now,

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Speaker 4: And in terms of regulation, there were a lot of changes.

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Speaker 4: There was the ETF through in twenty nineteen, the derivatives

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Speaker 4: through in twenty twenty, so before that we really didn't

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Speaker 4: have access to those products. We also saw the single

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Speaker 4: stock ETFs, which have impact both on the cover code.

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Speaker 4: We saw the biggest eels thanks to the single stock ETFs,

433
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 4: and we saw the biggest leverage and biggest volatility thanks

434
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 4: to those single stocktf So, you know, kind of wrapping

435
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:49,360
Speaker 4: up around here about the fact that what we've seen

436
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: is something new, something that wasn't available to retail before.

437
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 4: Some people are conscious about that. We even spoke to

438
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 4: the SEC Advocate and they say they're worried about the

439
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 4: growing complex city at a time where retail traders are

440
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 4: so active, they're very interested in the space. The space

441
00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 4: is growing so fast. So perhaps one important point to

442
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,359
Speaker 4: think about it is like those products are often used.

443
00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 4: You know, they have big impact on people's lives if

444
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: they're taken as a loan. And also this is something

445
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 4: kind of new in terms of access for retail traders.

446
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: Movie ratings, Joel, that solves all this.

447
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: Do you like, oh, these are lights? Yeah?

448
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: I know. I was not to do it because of copyright,

449
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,200
Speaker 2: but movie ratings are perfect. It's like, oh, these yield

450
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: max is, they're PG thirteen. Okay, why well x y

451
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 2: Z or TSL two x TESLA that's our and then

452
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 2: there are a few beyond our. We won't go into those.

453
00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,679
Speaker 2: There's a lot of How about this leveraged VIX futures rollers,

454
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: that's the US.

455
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 1: That's a roller coaster.

456
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 5: Two x micro strategy.

457
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: Too, yeah, two x microst Well, honestly, you have to

458
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 2: have commodity futures rolling. The t VIX was the ultimate

459
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 2: because it was an ATN which has credit risk. It

460
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 2: rolled futures, and it was leveraged, and it was the VIX.

461
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: It was always going to go down to negative ninety

462
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 2: nine point nine percent. But I'm okay with this, Joel.

463
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,880
Speaker 2: I feel like this is a big tent the industry.

464
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: The rapper is so malleable that they can really work

465
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: in a lot of ideas. Some of these are going

466
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: to solve real life problems. There will be a couple,

467
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,160
Speaker 2: you know, spots where somebody who doesn't know what they're

468
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 2: doing steps into the wrong product, and that's that sucks.

469
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 2: So I think you need ratings, but ultimately get ready

470
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 2: for more of this. I mean, this is not going away.

471
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: I heard from someone the sec you know, the products

472
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,439
Speaker 2: coming in and not just the yield Max but like

473
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,320
Speaker 2: the buffer which are for older people conservative. Some of

474
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,600
Speaker 2: those are getting really wonky and we're going to continue

475
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 2: to see a lot of derivative use. But most of

476
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: it I think will be pretty responsible. But there's definitely

477
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 2: gonna be the fun stuff trol. I mean, that's just

478
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 2: the it's always been this way.

479
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: Todd as somebody who is so intimate with the retail

480
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 1: crowd and the advice that you're giving to people on

481
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: YouTube curious, like, what do you recommend people understand about

482
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,919
Speaker 1: the fine print in the perspectives while they're considering emulating

483
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: what you've been able to do.

484
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I completely agree that there's a lot of risk

485
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: with these types of vehicles. So what I always say

486
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: is to make sure that you match these vehicles with

487
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 3: the percentage with the percentages that they are in the indexes.

488
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 3: So if you have Apple, which is ten percent of

489
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 3: the Nasdaq, or Microsoft, which is ten percent, then I

490
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:58,080
Speaker 3: didn't mind having ten percent of my portfolio and MSFO

491
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 3: and that was doing really well. It was a nice,

492
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 3: steady gainer, and it was doing well until they had

493
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:08,200
Speaker 3: maintenance changes. When they had maintenance changes, that sent shockwaves

494
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,439
Speaker 3: throughout the communities because some people were prematurely margin called

495
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 3: just because of the maintenance change. So I would say

496
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 3: to keep them matched at no more than they are

497
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 3: as the as a percentage of what they traded in

498
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 3: the indexes. And also even with that, that's still that

499
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 3: could still be a lot of volatility in your account,

500
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 3: because you know, you just you want to stay indexed,

501
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 3: is what I always say. Keep them. If you're gonna

502
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,879
Speaker 3: buy these, make sure they're no more than the percentages

503
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 3: that they're that they're represented in the indexes. But also

504
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 3: just stay indexed, you know, because ninety percent of traders

505
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 3: can't beat the S and P, and so stay indexed.

506
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 3: Keep these positions small and make them no more than

507
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 3: what they are represented in the indexes.

508
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: All right, on that note, we're going to wrap. Deniza,

509
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: Vildanna and Todd. Thank you so much for joining us

510
00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: on Trillions.

511
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.

512
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 4: Thank you, thanks for having.

513
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: Us and that story. One hundred percent yields are fueling

514
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 1: a retail boom and new quickbook ets. Thanks for listening

515
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: to Trillions. Until next time. You can find us on

516
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or

517
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: wherever else we'd like to listen. We'd love to hear

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00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: from you. We're on Twitter, I'm at Joel webbershow He's

519
00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 1: at Eric Aultness. This episode of Trillions was produced by

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00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: Magnus Hendrickson. Bye