Speaker 1: Hey, y'all, it's CT and Zakiyah, And we know, we know,
Speaker 1: we said we weren't coming back until November eleventh, but
Speaker 1: we can't wait that long, so we had to share
Speaker 1: just a little sneak peak with y'all. In our first
Speaker 1: Lab of semester Foor, we're talking to doctor Gail Sinatra
Speaker 1: and doctor Barbara Hoefert about their new book, Science Denial,
Speaker 1: Why Happens and What to Do about It. Their book
Speaker 1: explores what keeps folks from having a broad understanding of science.
Speaker 1: It also offers solutions for those wondering what they can
Speaker 1: do to help curb the spread of misinformation. You can
Speaker 1: hear the whole episode on Thursday, November eleventh, but here's
Speaker 1: a sneak peek. We started by asking doctor Sinatra, what
Speaker 1: is science denial?
Speaker 2: You don't see people who are very doubting and resisting science,
Speaker 2: hesitating to use an iPhone or get on a plane.
Speaker 2: They're not denying physics, they're not denying the technology that
Speaker 2: goes into Wi Fi. So it is this phenomena of
Speaker 2: selective denial, which really is driven by your motivations, your emotions.
Speaker 2: So you're picking and choosing what you like about science
Speaker 2: and what you don't like, and science doesn't.
Speaker 3: Work that way.
Speaker 1: That's such a good point, you know, science does not
Speaker 1: care about your feelings. It's not about our opinions or
Speaker 1: what we want to be true.
Speaker 2: It's about what the evidence suggests is our best understanding
Speaker 2: of the science at the time.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's so important to remember that science is backed
Speaker 1: up by research and evidence. For example, with masking and vaccine,
Speaker 1: scientists are doing studies to see how effective those measures
Speaker 1: are and then creating guidelines accordingly. And yes, these guidelines
Speaker 1: can change as the evidence changes, as we learn more.
Speaker 1: But we'll talk a little bit more about that later.
Speaker 1: But I think we should start with the history of
Speaker 1: science denial. Tt let's rewind a little bit. Have we
Speaker 1: seen science denial before in different forms? And how did
Speaker 1: we get here?
Speaker 2: The history of science probably starts with science denial, doubt
Speaker 2: and resistance.
Speaker 3: We try to trace it back to Galli Lao and
Speaker 3: you think about how he was under house arrests for
Speaker 3: the beliefs that he had, how long it took for
Speaker 3: people to accept his theories. Think about Darwin. It took
Speaker 3: more than one hundred years for scientists to accept fully
Speaker 3: what he was proposing in the way of evolution.
Speaker 1: So, for real, it feels like science denial has been
Speaker 1: going on since the beginning of science itself, and in
Speaker 1: the last fifty years it's become more pervasive as there's
Speaker 1: been some outside meddling, so corporations realizing that fostering some
Speaker 1: science denial could help their bottom line. It all goes
Speaker 1: back to the money.
Speaker 3: Beginning with the tobacco industry, for example, were interested in
Speaker 3: trying to deflect the idea that somehow it was cancer causing,
Speaker 3: and they hired pr firms to so doubt. And the
Speaker 3: same companies are being used by Exxon and other corporations
Speaker 3: to make it look as though climate change isn't a
Speaker 3: certain fact.
Speaker 1: In fact, even as recently as twenty ten, Philip Morris
Speaker 1: has routinely argued that Marlboro gold cigarettes actually decrease the
Speaker 1: risk of cancer. That's wild, but that brings us to today.
Speaker 1: With a global pandemic in a steadily warming planet, it
Speaker 1: feels like people are holding their noses up as scientific
Speaker 1: evidence left and right. So this has made me ask
Speaker 1: is there an increase in size and denial.
Speaker 2: I think the difference that we see is the amplification
Speaker 2: of misinformation through social media, and that's coupled with us
Speaker 2: living in our information bubbles where we get the same
Speaker 2: information and if it's misinformation, that's same misinformation reinforced over
Speaker 2: and over again and it becomes more credible. There's the
Speaker 2: joke that misinformation travels around the world before the truth
Speaker 2: gets up and puts its pants on. Misinformation is really compelling.
Speaker 2: It's sometimes interesting or intriguing or even funny to some people,
Speaker 2: and that gets the clicks. And as we know the
Speaker 2: way the algorithms are shaped, that more clicks gets more attention.
Speaker 1: We've talked about algorithms on social media before. What goes
Speaker 1: viral isn't always true. It really helps us understand why
Speaker 1: it's so important to talk about science denial right now.
Speaker 1: So when you think about that amplification and what we
Speaker 1: know about the brain, and the more you see something,
Speaker 1: the more is reinforced and you begin to believe it.
Speaker 1: I think all that makes sense in the current context.
Speaker 1: Sometimes people who are science deniers go overboard and say
Speaker 1: I'm just waiting for the science. Well, part of the
Speaker 1: science is assessing risk. Early on and even later in
Speaker 1: the pandemic, was people outright saying no to mass like,
Speaker 1: it's not going to keep you one hundred percent safe. Well, ma'am,
Speaker 1: if it's going to keep you ninety percent safe, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, that's still useful, right, And I think that's
Speaker 1: the part that we start to see this kind of
Speaker 1: doubling down on. I'm so scientific. I know ninety is
Speaker 1: less than one hundred, but I think you also know
Speaker 1: ninety is higher than zero. You know. It's like if
Speaker 1: you look at the forecast and it says there's a
Speaker 1: seventy percent chance of rain. You see that and then
Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, let me take my umbrella just in case. Right,
Speaker 1: this is the same thing. You don't say, I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna take my umbrella because it's not one hundred percent
Speaker 1: chance of rain exactly. So why don't you apply that
Speaker 1: same logic to masks. Okay, that's it for now. We
Speaker 1: don't want to give too much away. TT To hear
Speaker 1: the full episode, don't forget to follow Dope Labs on
Speaker 1: Spotify and tap the bell icons and you can get
Speaker 1: notified as soon as a new episode is up. And
Speaker 1: don't forget you can listen to Dope Labs semester for
Speaker 1: for free on Spotify starting November eleventh, See you soon,