Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on. These are our stories.
Speaker 4: Done done.
Speaker 1: Welcome to episode two of That's Messed Up an SPU Podcasts.
Speaker 3: We're so excited to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm Kara Klank and I'm Lisa Traeger. A happy, enjoyous
Speaker 1: honkah to you, Lisa.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Potato pancakes all day, every day,
Speaker 3: so delicious.
Speaker 2: Did you get any presents every night? Did Hanakah Harry
Speaker 2: visit you? Did you put any blue lights on your home?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: My Pentecostal husband hasn't really picked up on the honka
Speaker 1: traditions yet.
Speaker 2: I know my father puts a blue lit manora on
Speaker 2: our window, so just in case people didn't know we
Speaker 2: were Jewish, they know now.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's episode two. We're back. We've had
Speaker 1: so much fun like tweeting and instagramming and going through
Speaker 1: all the fun and stuff that everyone is sharing in
Speaker 1: all their opinions. Thank you for your positive feedback everybody,
Speaker 1: and we've gotten a lot of questions. In love about
Speaker 1: our cover art slash logo, which we understand because it's
Speaker 1: incredible and it's Carly Jean Andrews.
Speaker 2: And her Instagram's incredible. And I actually found her through
Speaker 2: Instagram because this summer during quarantine, she was making like
Speaker 2: people would send her nudes and then she would make
Speaker 2: paper doll outfits on top of them. And I'd never
Speaker 2: met this woman in my life, and I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: can I send you nudes?
Speaker 3: And then I sent her fifteen nudes.
Speaker 2: I had a two hour photo shoot alone in my home,
Speaker 2: and so.
Speaker 3: She knows me very intimately. Yeah, her Instagram is awesome.
Speaker 1: Everybody should go and follow Carly Jean Andrews and order
Speaker 1: her prints and stuff. She's really such a fantastic artist
Speaker 1: and we were so lucky.
Speaker 2: Or you can hack her and you know, if you'd
Speaker 2: like to see me doing ice ice skating poses in
Speaker 2: the nude, she probably has them on her phone. I'm
Speaker 2: also care I don't know if you've been experiencing this,
Speaker 2: but like, I've become more investigative since we've started working
Speaker 2: on this podcast, and I'm scared what's gonna happen to me?
Speaker 2: Like I saw a glove on a branch I'm like,
Speaker 2: who's glove is this? We need to find it, and
Speaker 2: I'm very.
Speaker 1: Near like picking it up with a stick to not
Speaker 1: break chain of custody.
Speaker 3: I've got suspicious, Like my sister.
Speaker 2: I was walking my sister's dog and it stared at
Speaker 2: a man and I'm like, he is a fucking murderer.
Speaker 2: There's a mirror that goes into his stairs and there's
Speaker 2: someone trapped, and my niece was like, I think it's
Speaker 2: just a man. I don't know why, but yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'm nervous for what's going to happen to my personality.
Speaker 3: Oh man, yeah, I guess. No, you obviously have not
Speaker 3: experienced this, and you're you're your silence.
Speaker 1: No, no, I will. I have definitely been on after
Speaker 1: a marathon. I think you've been binging a little bit lately, right,
Speaker 1: you've been catching up? You've been on season like twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, So, like, I have to be honest with everyone.
Speaker 2: After the or man up episodes in season twenty, it
Speaker 2: was just too much for me and with where the
Speaker 2: world was, and I did take a break. And obviously
Speaker 2: I always watched the old ones over and over, but
Speaker 2: I didn't watch twenty twenty one, and I've been watching
Speaker 2: them right now and I'm having a lot of problems
Speaker 2: because I'm in love with Caresy.
Speaker 1: She's literally texting me trying to act like Corisy is
Speaker 1: hotter than Maloney, and I can't.
Speaker 3: I don't even know what. I don't know how to react. Well,
Speaker 3: I don't want anyone to know that.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll we just talked about it, because I think
Speaker 2: people will hate me. I think this, Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: it's a controversial stance. I don't know why I'm so
Speaker 2: obsessed with Caresy, but I love that he loves Rolins
Speaker 2: even you know.
Speaker 1: That's one thing that you said because you're not a
Speaker 1: huge Rollins fan, and you said that his love of
Speaker 1: Rollins is making you like Rollins more so.
Speaker 3: I think he's doing a service he is.
Speaker 2: I just feel like he's like the feminist we really
Speaker 2: that's what Maloney was missing. Maloney was always like abortions
Speaker 2: are wrong, and I think Caresi has this like special
Speaker 2: sweetness where he's like, she can get an abortion, you know,
Speaker 2: And I like, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, we found out a couple of weeks ago on
Speaker 1: Instagram that in the new year we're going to be
Speaker 1: getting the return of Maloney, which is huge, and I
Speaker 1: was just like looking even him older, you know, a
Speaker 1: little bit more weathered in the face. I'm just a
Speaker 1: thousand times hornier for Maloney than I ever will be
Speaker 1: for Dominick Caresi.
Speaker 3: But I will regret it. I will regret it.
Speaker 2: And I do think that him constantly bringing Connoli is
Speaker 2: his mom made is a little overkill where we get
Speaker 2: it your Italian, but he's always just bringing a wedding
Speaker 2: soup to the plast accent.
Speaker 4: I feel like that.
Speaker 3: It's like he's a cornball. But I like him. I
Speaker 3: just don't want to like and I did time.
Speaker 1: I did Google just like photos of him in his
Speaker 1: regular life and he seems to really love his wife,
Speaker 1: but so does.
Speaker 3: You know, so does Maloney.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I do love a man that's not gonna
Speaker 2: cheat on his wife, but not that I know anything. Also,
Speaker 2: we have been doing a lot of different shows together
Speaker 2: to like promote this podcast, and we did our friend
Speaker 2: Michelle Collins radio show, and she's obsessed with Peter Herman.
Speaker 2: And Peter Herman, for those of you who don't know,
Speaker 2: is Marishko Hargatee's real husband. And in the show he
Speaker 2: plays a defense attorney who's actually not a terrible man,
Speaker 2: Trevor Langan, and she said the funniest thing I've ever
Speaker 2: heard about him, Karen.
Speaker 1: I told her, I think Peter Herman is so so hot,
Speaker 1: and she goes, oh, I call him sexy Frankenstein.
Speaker 3: Which we love.
Speaker 1: So from now on we will we will be referring
Speaker 1: to him as Sexy Frankenstein, but we mean that in
Speaker 1: the only the most boner inducing ways, like I think
Speaker 1: he's so so hot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll buy any laundry detergent beads that he wants
Speaker 2: to sell.
Speaker 3: He is not in this episode, but.
Speaker 1: You know who is, my man, Christopher Maloney. He's also
Speaker 1: gonnaill my man. I just ca okay, okay. So we're
Speaker 1: gonna get into the episode. You're gonna get some heaping
Speaker 1: dose of Christopher Maloney. But we just wanted to remind you,
Speaker 1: since this is the second episode, what the show is. Obviously,
Speaker 1: we recap episodes of Law and Order SVU, and then
Speaker 1: we're going to get into the true crime that the
Speaker 1: episode was based on. Today's episode has some particularly graphic elements,
Speaker 1: so we just wanted to warn people up front to
Speaker 1: be prepared for that.
Speaker 2: And as we know in the sv world, are the
Speaker 2: best episodes are usually the most messed up. So this
Speaker 2: is the best and messed up, and we have one
Speaker 2: of the best guests, best actors.
Speaker 3: That have ever been on this show, according to me, So.
Speaker 1: Stay with us, all right, Lisa, are you ready to
Speaker 1: talk about.
Speaker 3: Your favorite episode? Yeah, of Law and Order SVU. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm thrilled. This is my favorite. I mean, so many
Speaker 3: haunt me, but this, you know, Ari Grainer is in it,
Speaker 3: so I don't.
Speaker 2: Want to step on your position. But there's a monologue
Speaker 2: at the end that chilled chills up and down my
Speaker 2: spine here on my head, Like I just remember watching
Speaker 2: this as it came out. This is an early season
Speaker 2: being like, you are the best actress I've ever seen
Speaker 2: in my life.
Speaker 3: How are you doing this at such young age?
Speaker 2: This is the most twisted crime, the most shocking stuff,
Speaker 2: the saddest ending, the craziest trauma, the family. I mean,
Speaker 2: it is multi layered, and you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: the times the beginning doesn't match the end.
Speaker 1: This it's like, I don't know, I love it. The
Speaker 1: cops play tricks on the bull. I mean, yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's truly great, I can't wait. Thank you for agreeing
Speaker 1: to do this one.
Speaker 3: No, this is an awesome episode and unfortunately, how bad
Speaker 3: I've been talking about how everything is. It is based
Speaker 3: on a trip.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, it is based on bad, bad, bad crimes. But yeah,
Speaker 1: this episode is called Damage. It's from season four, episode eleven,
Speaker 1: so you know they're really hitting their stride. The episode
Speaker 1: starts out with like, hits the ground running a couple
Speaker 1: is like, a guy's breaking up with his girlfriend outside
Speaker 1: of a video store and just gets shot dead in
Speaker 1: the middle of the street. Yeah, and she has a
Speaker 1: really bad hat on.
Speaker 3: I'd like you ad Yeah, and she seems annoying. She
Speaker 3: seems annoying. He's like, bitch, I told you, she seems annoying.
Speaker 1: Does she deserve to watch your boyfriend die in front
Speaker 1: of her in a split second as he's breaking up
Speaker 1: with her?
Speaker 3: I don't think so, but it is a bad hat.
Speaker 1: In the video store, a teenage girls crouched over a
Speaker 1: six year old girl who's been shot. And then there's
Speaker 1: also a dead guy with a mask on the ground.
Speaker 3: And then there's.
Speaker 1: A hysterical video clerk holding a gun.
Speaker 2: And he has an emo band from the two thousands
Speaker 2: haircut like a my chemical romance, like dirty man type.
Speaker 1: Look, Liza always has the hair reviews. Detective Dowthorn, I
Speaker 1: believe is how you say it? Played by Eric Palladino.
Speaker 1: He's kind of in and out guy. He's like a
Speaker 1: regular detective who's not an SPU detective.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I call him a bad Yeah yeah, like
Speaker 3: a Guido.
Speaker 1: Can you say Guido? I think Kenny Guido's okay, so
Speaker 1: because I think people like love being Guido's anyway. Uh,
Speaker 1: he shows up because it's just a regular crime right now.
Speaker 1: The six year old is en route to the hospital.
Speaker 1: Her name is Rebecca. The older sister is Missy played
Speaker 1: by Ari Greener.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: The kid who is dead on the ground who was
Speaker 1: trying to rob the video stores named Eric Campbell, and
Speaker 1: then Joey Field is the name of the clerk who
Speaker 1: is the one that killed Eric. The squad gets word
Speaker 1: that Rebecca, the six year old girl, is on life
Speaker 1: support at the hospital and has gone a rhea.
Speaker 3: And I want to add that.
Speaker 2: He doesn't say, oh, we'll contact the hot shot cop
Speaker 2: doesn't say, oh, we'll contact SVU.
Speaker 3: I know, Benson. He goes get the sex police over.
Speaker 1: Here, yeah, he says, he says, leave it to the
Speaker 1: sex police. And it's like the way that other cops
Speaker 1: make fun of SVU all the time is like literally
Speaker 1: proof that a sex crimes.
Speaker 3: Unit is needed, because like you don't.
Speaker 1: Even listen to people when they have prop like sex
Speaker 1: crimes committed against them. You're, yeah, should be a separate
Speaker 1: unit for this, there is, and you should respect them.
Speaker 3: It's really funny.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Uh, there's just a lot of like, you
Speaker 1: know what, Kitty the kitty rape police, so here, Like
Speaker 1: there's just always little jokes about them being the sex police.
Speaker 2: And what is shocking about the sex police being called
Speaker 2: is you're looking at the crime and you're like, but
Speaker 2: what is why?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was just some shootings, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: what is happening? What is it? And I never thought
Speaker 3: you will never believe it.
Speaker 1: I did not think I would ever type the word
Speaker 1: gonorrhea so many times as I did watching this episode.
Speaker 1: I know how to spell it, and I will always
Speaker 1: know how I will win into spelling be of sexual
Speaker 1: transmitted infections. Okay, so Missy, the teenage sister of the victim,
Speaker 1: is crying freaking out.
Speaker 3: She's like, uh, she.
Speaker 1: Tells them about how she was adopted at twelve by
Speaker 1: the Kurtz family, but Rebecca, the six year old, is
Speaker 1: their biological child.
Speaker 3: She's like, they're going to kill me. And that's what
Speaker 3: I learned from Sex and the City once.
Speaker 2: Sometimes family is adopt then later when they're not trying,
Speaker 2: they do get pregnant.
Speaker 3: One of my best friends. That happened in her family.
Speaker 1: And Ari Granner. I should mention this is only the
Speaker 1: second thing she's ever done. She's been in a few
Speaker 1: episodes of The Sopranos and then this. So she's a
Speaker 1: wonder kid.
Speaker 3: Let's see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like nine eighteen or something. She's very good,
Speaker 1: and the squad suspects the dad. Obviously, that's the first
Speaker 1: person that they suspect when like a little kid has
Speaker 1: a sexual uh you know, gone rhea And it's Dan
Speaker 1: Lauria from The Wonder Years.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you did you ever watch that show?
Speaker 3: I did, but I was so you know, I remember
Speaker 3: the Pimple episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like that he like is so he's very good
Speaker 1: in this episode, but he makes me really like like
Speaker 1: he was such a mean dad in the Wonder Years
Speaker 1: that I'm always like about him, and he's in another
Speaker 1: episode of SVU where he plays a coach who I
Speaker 1: think is bad, but we'll probably talk about that episode.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then the cops are asking all these
Speaker 2: questions like what does your dad do?
Speaker 3: Does he rape your sister?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: They also there's an expository question where they're like, your
Speaker 2: daddy's little angel too, right, which I like.
Speaker 3: And then we get to Missy's trauma.
Speaker 1: Right, so they are talking about how Rebecca's daddy's at
Speaker 1: a angel.
Speaker 3: Just that term is gross.
Speaker 1: I hate that means I hate daddy's girl, I hate
Speaker 1: daddy's attle angel, I hate all the daddy stuff.
Speaker 3: You can just throw it away.
Speaker 1: But Missy was adopted her biological father, like severely molested
Speaker 1: and assaulted her from the age of five to the
Speaker 1: age of twelve when she was taken into foster custody
Speaker 1: and then adopted by this family. So you'd think, oh,
Speaker 1: what a great turnaround, But she obviously doesn't think of
Speaker 1: herself as a daddy's little girl because of her traumatic
Speaker 1: relationship with her biological dad. So obviously the Dan Laurie
Speaker 1: A character freaks out when they're like, want to get
Speaker 1: tested for Goneriett to see if you gave it to
Speaker 1: your ador who's on life support.
Speaker 3: Yeah, dads really don't like to be accused of raping
Speaker 3: their children.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also just want to point out that this is
Speaker 1: season four. This is after Benson has cut her hair
Speaker 1: into that super little spiky cup, but she's let it
Speaker 1: grow out and now it's got like this smooth wind
Speaker 1: swept justin Bieber quality too.
Speaker 3: Any I wrote short swoop boy band realness.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cute. It looks good on her, like you
Speaker 1: have to be. I just want to pull off that haircut.
Speaker 3: We both went. We both described her the same swoops
Speaker 3: boy band type. I think there's a reason we're friends.
Speaker 2: Bieber didn't have a band, but yeah, the dad definitely
Speaker 2: is like us whole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's like, her hair does look good, but
Speaker 1: she is asking a man to take a gun a reattest.
Speaker 1: So it turns out Missy has filed a complain against
Speaker 1: her adopted dad five years earlier, but she was actually
Speaker 1: just mistaking regular affection for sexual advances, and they kind
Speaker 1: of we get more information about how like Missy's dad
Speaker 1: like beat her, raped her, pimped her out to her
Speaker 1: to his friends, like he was.
Speaker 3: Is not a good man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like raping your kid is bad enough, and then
Speaker 1: like pimping your kid up. No, it's like money, honestly unconscionable.
Speaker 1: It's like you can't even think that there's people like
Speaker 1: that in the world, but there are, and that the
Speaker 1: social worker is like I wish all my families were
Speaker 1: like the Kurtz family, like to get like to adopt
Speaker 1: a twelve year old girl too, who's been through a
Speaker 1: lot of traumas, Like that's you know, that's a big
Speaker 1: undertaking and it seems like they're this great family to her.
Speaker 1: So we'll see where that goes. Everyone loves Rebecca. They
Speaker 1: talk about how she has some incontinence issues.
Speaker 2: This is so they go to the school and this
Speaker 2: is an SVU trope like the Bartenders, you know, where
Speaker 2: it's like the principal knows.
Speaker 3: Details of the kid.
Speaker 2: I never met my principal and my principles like what
Speaker 2: a lovely girl. I'd be like, I've never I've never
Speaker 2: talked to you, mister Bozil.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, I knew my elementary school tea principal. His
Speaker 1: name was doctor T. And I think if I was
Speaker 1: pissing myself and grade a bunch. Maybe he'd know about that.
Speaker 2: But the thing is it wasn't a bunch. She only
Speaker 2: pissed herself twice. So they didn't realize, Oh, this is
Speaker 2: like a sign of sexual abuse. Oh that is a
Speaker 2: sign of sexual abuse.
Speaker 3: I thought I didn't realize they said two times. Yeah,
Speaker 3: she only pet her pants twice, And it's like, you're
Speaker 3: in the no nor pants. I just am like, it's like,
Speaker 3: how the attention you get at a New York City
Speaker 3: private school?
Speaker 1: Yeah, your principal knows every time you bet your pants.
Speaker 1: But we find out that they did take her to
Speaker 1: the doctor because she was wedding her bed at home too. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: so they took her to a doctor for that. Great parents, yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: everything points to them being good parents. But now they
Speaker 1: want to pull the plug on Rebecca because she's brain
Speaker 1: dead and they want to give her organs to a
Speaker 1: little boy in Philadelphia. They haven't done the rape exam yet,
Speaker 1: so they have to go to a judge who has
Speaker 1: to decide whether this kid in Philadelphia gets her liver
Speaker 1: or whether she's going to get like examined for like
Speaker 1: sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: I have two comments. Yes, of course it's their sexual abuse.
Speaker 2: What do you need a kit for? The girl has
Speaker 2: gone rhea? We know, yeah, Two.
Speaker 3: Why do we need to waste time at a judge
Speaker 3: to get a thing? Do the test? Give the organs?
Speaker 2: Like this storyline enrages me, where I'm like, why is
Speaker 2: it so much trauma for this family?
Speaker 3: They're basically I just don't understand.
Speaker 2: They want to do another good thing, another proof that
Speaker 2: they're a good family. They want to donate her organs.
Speaker 2: And the police are saying, no kid and Philly must die.
Speaker 3: We need to do a rape kit, but we won't
Speaker 3: do the rape quit kit fast. We'll go to court first.
Speaker 3: What well, that's what I was saying, like, can't both happen?
Speaker 1: Can't they just do it quickly and then go I
Speaker 1: don't understand why they even in corporate.
Speaker 3: This is torture porn.
Speaker 1: This is this is like I think me watching this
Speaker 1: episode started my life of like like.
Speaker 3: This is torture porn.
Speaker 1: So so the judge sides with the with the with
Speaker 1: Cabin one of my favorite das of all time. The
Speaker 1: judge sides with Cabin and says that they cannot pull
Speaker 1: the plug on Rebecca. They need to wait until this
Speaker 1: examination happens, and then Stabler and Benson ask if the
Speaker 1: entire family can attest it for gonerehea. So it turns
Speaker 1: out that Rebecca dies, and but the liver gets to
Speaker 1: the boy in Philly right on time, and she also
Speaker 1: did have the exam and it shows that she was
Speaker 1: repeatedly assaulted, which is I'm sorry, I wish.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's a lot of trigger warnings in here.
Speaker 3: It sucks to talk about that. That it's what happens
Speaker 3: in the episode. I'm glad the boy got the liver. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the boy gets the liver.
Speaker 2: So that's Yatally, there's a trope that I always love
Speaker 2: because you know, Benson and the Stable are different answers,
Speaker 2: but I love when parents go do you have children, Detective,
Speaker 2: and so we get one of them and then.
Speaker 1: Like Benson gets this like ashamed look on her face,
Speaker 1: and it's like, it's okay, like that you don't have
Speaker 1: a kid like that, you could still imagine.
Speaker 3: It's sad that your daughter was repeatedly raped, Yeah, gonorrhea.
Speaker 3: And then yeah, like I can't imagine it. I don't
Speaker 3: need to have a given birth.
Speaker 2: And then Stabler, of course the horse, the White Horse
Speaker 2: and Shining dad armors like, I got four kids, I.
Speaker 3: Love them all. So the dogs' emotional yeah, so yes, emotional.
Speaker 3: We go.
Speaker 1: Now we see the doctor who was treating Rebecca's bed
Speaker 1: wedding and he reveals that Missy has gone rihea.
Speaker 3: This is like their pediatrician.
Speaker 2: So and at first the pediatrician, you know, like most doctors,
Speaker 2: doesn't want to give the goods tap because of their
Speaker 2: Hippocratic oath or whatever.
Speaker 3: Well, Hippa also are the laws of privacy, and you're
Speaker 3: not allowed to tell things about people, but they broke it.
Speaker 3: I love the Hippocratic oath is the first do no harm,
Speaker 3: but it's also first, don't gossip with cops about whether
Speaker 3: kids have gone a rhea.
Speaker 1: So, uh, the this is terrible news. As of Watcher,
Speaker 1: you realize, yeah, the two girls have gone real both
Speaker 1: of these girls have gone riha.
Speaker 3: So Missy breaks down and says that she and Rebecca.
Speaker 1: Were both raped by Joe, who is the clerk at
Speaker 1: the video store. We thought he was like a character that.
Speaker 3: Was gone at the beginning. He's back.
Speaker 1: He's apparently Missy's boyfriend, and he raped Missy and Rebecca
Speaker 1: as well. He made Missy bring Rebecca to the store
Speaker 1: when she threatened to tell on him. Missy said Joey
Speaker 1: Field and Eric Campbell, who was the shooter, that they're friends,
Speaker 1: they plan this whole thing together, or that really Joey
Speaker 1: was the mastermind.
Speaker 3: And they say Joey comes.
Speaker 1: From deep pockets, like his dad is a big lawyer
Speaker 1: and his family's like in with the mayor.
Speaker 3: I'm like, why are you working at a video store,
Speaker 3: you know, to learn personality?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like a lot of those kind
Speaker 1: of kids end up like clerking or putting away files
Speaker 1: at a law firm. Like they don't end up. I
Speaker 1: didn't even have a video store, so interesting. I did
Speaker 1: a video store where the owner keeps a loaded gun.
Speaker 1: It just seems a little bit of a low brow
Speaker 1: job for this high powered kid. This kid that's from
Speaker 1: a high powered family. They live on Park Avenue. You
Speaker 1: just don't see a lot of kids working at video store. Yeah,
Speaker 1: mostly video stores do not exist anyhore.
Speaker 2: Okay, because you always hear of a rich kid having
Speaker 2: to get a for to learn a lesson yeah something,
Speaker 2: but yes, not this sure, that's it's I think the
Speaker 2: job's a little bit far fish.
Speaker 1: But okay, So they go to visit Eric the house
Speaker 1: of Eric, the kid who was shot as the robber
Speaker 1: in the video store event.
Speaker 3: One of the worst dads.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, they go, he's in a bottle in
Speaker 1: the East Village and this guy's just like a drunk
Speaker 1: calling his dead son a loser.
Speaker 3: He's like, you want to go to his room? Go ahead?
Speaker 3: Like he's horrible.
Speaker 2: He goes, my son's a bigger loser than I even thought.
Speaker 2: And it's like, you're You're the biggest loser I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: He has, you know, the bald hair up top with
Speaker 2: the hair around the circles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the bozo the clon actually looks like I
Speaker 1: guess who character on that game board?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'd be like does he have swollen burst capilaries?
Speaker 3: So they he also when people are this poor and gross,
Speaker 3: I'm like, how do you live in New York? Why
Speaker 3: are you in New York in the East Village?
Speaker 4: Wow?
Speaker 6: And your son has his own room. So Eric has
Speaker 6: a bunch of quote unquote fancy electronics. But this episode
Speaker 6: did come out in two thousand and three, so it's
Speaker 6: like a massive stereo a box TV like nothing that
Speaker 6: would look nice now, but is kind of strange for
Speaker 6: like a kid to have they figure out that Eric
Speaker 6: was three feet away when he shot Rebecca through forensics.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing with these teen any killer it's like,
Speaker 2: even though cops are dumb, detectives are not. And to
Speaker 2: think you are going to out smart detectives with your
Speaker 2: tails is just such arrogance.
Speaker 3: And yeah, especially for in the world of forensics and stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where they were easily like he would have to
Speaker 2: point down because he's tall to hit the kid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a close range. It's like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was like so basically we're getting the picture
Speaker 1: that this isn't this was like an intentional killing, whereas
Speaker 1: they tried to make it seem like, oh, in this robbery,
Speaker 1: the gun like being like ricochet and like hit her whatever.
Speaker 1: So Ben's in a stabler go to Joey's apartment and
Speaker 1: tell him that he's gonna win an award from the
Speaker 1: day Apartments Townhouse Townhouse.
Speaker 3: Excuse me, I misspoke. This is one of my favorite moments.
Speaker 3: And they say they're like, hey man, they're gonna give
Speaker 3: you a like a courage award from the Mayor's office.
Speaker 1: Why don't you step outside? So when he steps outside, they
Speaker 1: arrest him.
Speaker 3: And I didn't realize that.
Speaker 1: You don't need an arrest warrant if someone's on the street,
Speaker 1: but if they're in the house, you need an arrest warrant.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you hear the dad lawyer in the back being like, Joey,
Speaker 3: don't go outside, but it's too.
Speaker 2: Late because the lawyer Dad knows. And I learned this
Speaker 2: from this episode. Yeah, to me, we learn a lot.
Speaker 2: I will never step outside. If it comes to my door.
Speaker 3: You don't have to open the door. I don't think
Speaker 3: even without a warrant.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: Okay, So we figure out that Joey's dad is this
Speaker 1: big attorney he said.
Speaker 3: Joey says he has no idea. He had no idea
Speaker 3: Eric was going to do any of this.
Speaker 1: It's all kind of Eric on Eric's thing. Joey gets
Speaker 1: arraigned and remanded without bail. We get Judith light Baby.
Speaker 3: Judge gets charged with first degree murder and two counts
Speaker 3: of rape in the first degree. Three charges.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so this is not going to be an
Speaker 1: easy case to get out of. And everyone's throwing around
Speaker 1: the death penalty a lot, which I didn't I don't
Speaker 1: even think is in New York.
Speaker 3: But maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: Judith Light shows up as judge slash Bureau Chief Elizabeth Donnelly.
Speaker 1: She was on twenty five episodes of SVU from two
Speaker 1: thousand and two to twenty ten. I would consider her
Speaker 1: a main Yeah, she's cannon for sure, a huge part.
Speaker 1: Missy wants immunity. Her lawyer is played by a This
Speaker 1: is a classic episode because there's a lot of classic
Speaker 1: people in it. This classic SVU defense attorney named Roger Kressler,
Speaker 1: who was kind of like a sleezed ball that's.
Speaker 3: Like, my client doesn't know anything about that.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 2: He has the haircut, the ball in the hair, but black.
Speaker 2: He looks like he would.
Speaker 3: Do your taxes.
Speaker 1: Yes, he's played by a guy named Ned Eisenberger and
Speaker 1: he's been on twenty four episodes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it gets better and better, yeah every moment.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Joey's dad is basically trying to like bury all
Speaker 1: these motions.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: And then the episode flips when Craigan walks in with
Speaker 1: a VHS like a well, haunting haunting.
Speaker 2: But I do want to reiterate, and you did say
Speaker 2: this that Missy got a deal, so she is immune
Speaker 2: from being charged because she gave the scoop on Joey
Speaker 2: and Eric, So I just need everyone to know she
Speaker 2: has immunity.
Speaker 3: Yes, she has immunity.
Speaker 1: Cragan walks in with this VHS tape and it's Missy
Speaker 1: and Joey, and it's Missy basically coercing Joey through like
Speaker 1: the promise of sex to molest her little sister who's
Speaker 1: lying pasted out on the bed.
Speaker 3: It's a very gross syne. She drugs her sister.
Speaker 1: She gave her sister syphilis, and she maria, I don't
Speaker 1: know how to spell syphilis. I know how to spell gonorrhea.
Speaker 3: Why did I say syphilis?
Speaker 7: I don't know.
Speaker 3: They're both a stud and fucking You see on the tape,
Speaker 3: Joey's like, no, no, no, I don't want to rape her.
Speaker 1: Some and she likes suggest She's like, you better do
Speaker 1: it if you want more of this, and it's like
Speaker 1: it's really disturbing.
Speaker 3: And they go over to the daughter. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So basically we now know that Missy has been masterminding
Speaker 1: this entire thing if she lied about being raped, Like
Speaker 1: who really planned these murders? Is what Olivia brings up,
Speaker 1: And that's the crux of the episode pretty much.
Speaker 3: I just can't believe I love this episode so much.
Speaker 3: Something is wrong with my head. I have to bring
Speaker 3: it up in therapy.
Speaker 1: My favorite episodes are the most traumatic. That's really it's terrifying.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 1: Now, Joey is being like a love struck teenage idiot,
Speaker 1: like he doesn't believe anything.
Speaker 3: They're like, Missy's giving you up, Missy's pinning the whole
Speaker 3: thing on you. He's like, nah, you're lying.
Speaker 1: Even thinks his dad is lying to him, Like he why.
Speaker 3: Romeo and Juliet should not be taught in school.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, people think you're supposed to die for your
Speaker 2: high school partner or something.
Speaker 1: And it's like yeah, because they were like thirteen and fifteen. Nah.
Speaker 2: So he is willing to take the needle for this
Speaker 2: girl because the sex is so bomb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he he don't want to cut that out. No, No,
Speaker 3: he says that.
Speaker 1: He's like he's like Eric introduced me to Missy and
Speaker 1: it was like being on a drug to be with her,
Speaker 1: Like she's intoxicating. But I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: will find that about like a narcissist personality that like
Speaker 1: they can have like an intoxicating.
Speaker 3: Personality to be around. Yeah, I think we both know
Speaker 3: people like that.
Speaker 1: So there was one time they mostly drugged her when
Speaker 1: they molested her, but one time she woke up Rebecca,
Speaker 1: she said she was going to tell So Missy paid
Speaker 1: Eric and Joey told him what to do because Eric
Speaker 1: would do anything for money. So it's like, hey, just
Speaker 1: come in and pretend to rob this store. So we're
Speaker 1: going to shoot the sister. And I don't think Eric
Speaker 1: thought he was going to get shot in the robbery.
Speaker 1: Do you think they knew they were going to kill Eric?
Speaker 3: Hmmm?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like was that something gone wrong? I
Speaker 2: don't know, because I wonder like, would you agree to
Speaker 2: get shot dead for some stereo?
Speaker 3: Well, no, I don't think you would have done that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think maybe it was like, oh, we're going to
Speaker 1: shoulder wound you and then you run away, like you know,
Speaker 1: these kids all think they're sharp shooters.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: So Missy planned this entire robbery. Now she has immunity.
Speaker 1: She's completely played this entire like and I got everybody
Speaker 1: so cad.
Speaker 3: Now knowing that she did that. The acting of these
Speaker 3: killer kids is insane, like crying about your sister up top,
Speaker 3: Like I don't understand how all these murderers are also
Speaker 3: amazing actors. Yeah, yeah, she she was sad about her sister.
Speaker 1: I think sometimes you chat, you channel the sadness of
Speaker 1: you losing your freedom.
Speaker 3: You know, you're like, I better fucking tap dancer. I'm
Speaker 3: going to be in jail. So you're like, no, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: But so Cabot wants to help get Missy's immunity reverse
Speaker 1: but that's actually not really within the scope of what
Speaker 1: she should be doing. So she basically goes to Joey's father,
Speaker 1: the lawyer, and kind of they hatch a plan to
Speaker 1: get this immunity reversed. So we're in Petrovski's courtroom aka
Speaker 1: Joanna Merlin forty three episodes.
Speaker 3: Petrovski's an iconic judge. Yeah. Are they all do it?
Speaker 2: Because everything I'm like, yeah, Bubby, it's like a bubby
Speaker 2: to me. You know, she would be a passover dinner.
Speaker 2: She you know, should try and be like did you
Speaker 2: try the gaffil to fish?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Like I fuck am? I love her so and the.
Speaker 2: Side I want to add the data is really sad.
Speaker 2: He's like, my son won't even let me.
Speaker 1: Safe, right, So they're trying to get Petrovski to overturn
Speaker 1: this immunity. They're saying this evidence of the VHS tape
Speaker 1: showed up after immunity was imposed. And then Joey's father's
Speaker 1: response is they can't put Missy on the stand without
Speaker 1: supporting perjury now that they've seen this video, which eliminates.
Speaker 3: Joey's right to confront who accuser. So Petrofski revokes.
Speaker 1: The immunity, which I think is very rarely done, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of a ball or move from them that
Speaker 1: they got it done.
Speaker 2: But the judge and lawyer, of course are pissed or
Speaker 2: like you guys are canoodling together. They're hatching up plans
Speaker 2: the defense and Brock years together. Legal canoodling, yes, for sure.
Speaker 2: And Petrovsky's very pisted at Cabot. They always have like
Speaker 2: fun scenes together.
Speaker 1: But Petrovsky loves Cabot deep down because later when Petrovsky,
Speaker 1: when Cabot gets quote unquote murdered but really goes into
Speaker 1: witness protection, Petrovsky's very hard on the criminals she thinks
Speaker 1: did it. So she's pissed a Cabot. She wants the
Speaker 1: trial to happen a s A p even though Cabot
Speaker 1: is I'm not ready. So yeah, the parents show up
Speaker 1: at SVU. Now they get shown the table.
Speaker 2: Well, what's my favorite is they're pissed that the trust.
Speaker 2: They're pissed about something, the parents and they run into
Speaker 2: the squad room.
Speaker 3: And they're like, we can't show you. They're like show us,
Speaker 3: and the mom my favorite goes what can be harder?
Speaker 3: And it can't be worse and what we're going through basically,
Speaker 3: and it's like, yeah, no, that's what's crazy. It's like
Speaker 3: your kid is dead or use your imagination. A lot
Speaker 3: of things can be worse.
Speaker 2: But so this is this is where I've mentioned this
Speaker 2: before where SVU has a humor where before the worst
Speaker 2: thing ever happens, there's always a funny joke, and this
Speaker 2: is the joke where it's like this mom is in hysterics.
Speaker 3: What could be worse? And it's like the squad will
Speaker 3: give it to you, baby, Right, So we're winding up.
Speaker 1: The episode's kind of winding up now as we kind
Speaker 1: of realize that Missy is this sort of sociopathic mastermind.
Speaker 1: Joey admits that Missy paid Eric one thousand dollars to
Speaker 1: shoot at Rebecca, so we're trying to find out where
Speaker 1: she got that money. Dan Lauria and the adoptive parents
Speaker 1: are like, we're not going to help you take away
Speaker 1: our other daughter. And Missy's like, Joey will never testify
Speaker 1: against me, like she knows that she has this the
Speaker 1: kid like whipped. And the lawyer's like, when the jury
Speaker 1: hears about Missy's past and all her trauma, do you
Speaker 1: really think they're gonna blame her for anything she does?
Speaker 3: We get Ahong moment where he.
Speaker 1: Meets up with Missy, tells the whole story about how
Speaker 1: her mom died when she was five, her dad molested her,
Speaker 1: and that the Kurts has only kept her out of
Speaker 1: pity and she has a flat affect. Huang says later
Speaker 1: tells everyone she has a flat affect and no capacity
Speaker 1: for empathy.
Speaker 3: She's like a classic sociopath.
Speaker 2: And one of my favorite lines in that little interview
Speaker 2: that really stuck with me is Cabots like, but Joey
Speaker 2: loves you.
Speaker 3: He was going to take the death penalty for you,
Speaker 3: and she goes, but he didn't, did he?
Speaker 1: Yeah he was in it for himself. Yeah yeah, where
Speaker 1: And that he's never had love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's yeah.
Speaker 1: And so they talk about how her early childhood was
Speaker 1: so severely traumatic that even by twelve, when she was
Speaker 1: adopted into this lovely family, it was too late.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like she.
Speaker 2: Needed hardcore therapy NonStop, and it doesn't seem like she
Speaker 2: got it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that she knows what she's doing is wrong,
Speaker 1: she just does not care. So they track down this
Speaker 1: pawn shop ticket and figure out this like three thousand
Speaker 1: dollars like pavet diamond Lockett necklace that's engraved that the
Speaker 1: parents gave Missy as a gift is what she gave
Speaker 1: to Eric.
Speaker 3: To Pond for the money.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then Munch is like knows about all the
Speaker 2: jewelry lingo and I love ponn shop guy goes, look
Speaker 2: at you a connoisseur.
Speaker 1: There's so many good pawn shop guys in the show. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Actually, the ring I'm wearing today I got at a
Speaker 3: pawn shop in London. I paid cash.
Speaker 1: So then missy Uh is like talking to Cabot about
Speaker 1: how you know she's not good. She could get the
Speaker 1: death penalty and she's like, you can't kill me. I'm
Speaker 1: already dead.
Speaker 3: And when she sees the necklace hanging like holding she
Speaker 3: the anger on her face is like she's pissed, she's
Speaker 3: got got and she's done.
Speaker 1: But the so the episode ends, Yeah, I think you
Speaker 1: think it's gonna end just like I'm usually you fade
Speaker 1: to dick wolf.
Speaker 3: On I'm already dead like a line like that. You think,
Speaker 3: but supposed there it feel sad, Yeah, scared, I don't.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's like a really it's a really
Speaker 1: good time. Because you said she was a team monologue.
Speaker 2: She does look little like she looks like she's fourteen
Speaker 2: fifteen in this show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she's twenty nineteen or twenty.
Speaker 2: So to me, like while watching it, thinking she's a teen,
Speaker 2: I'm watching these horrific cold and she does this murderous
Speaker 2: lean in. Yeah, it's like, I mean, the lighting in
Speaker 2: this show, everything is.
Speaker 3: It's so good.
Speaker 1: So then the episode kind of ends with the dad
Speaker 1: trying to ask Cabot to like spare her a little bit,
Speaker 1: like to take the death penalty off the table, and
Speaker 1: he's like, can't you see how damaged Missy is? And
Speaker 1: you don't always hear the title of the episode just
Speaker 1: so succinctly put in there, but and Cabot's just kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 2: No, I gotta follow the law, which bothers me because
Speaker 2: Cabot breaks the law all the time. This reminds me
Speaker 2: of you don't even watch Below Deck, but it's like
Speaker 2: it's maritime lots, merritime lots, like you break the rules constantly, Cabot,
Speaker 2: can you just not kill this team?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't understand why she kind of like that.
Speaker 1: Jury would ever give us somebody with such a traumatic
Speaker 1: pass the death penalty like that though, I really don't Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, well.
Speaker 3: That and then so with this, dad gonna visit her
Speaker 3: in jail, Like that's what I don't under I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, this was one of our favorite episodes, so our
Speaker 1: recap was extensive.
Speaker 3: But yeah, hopefully feel depressed. Yeah, get ready to hear
Speaker 3: about how this happened in real life. We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: Welcome back. Let's dive in.
Speaker 2: So this case, is there some sister and sister rape murder?
Speaker 2: There is, But so I'll just warn you up top,
Speaker 2: this is pretty fucked.
Speaker 3: But what why this case? So first, this case.
Speaker 2: Is Canadian, so that's you know, we think Canada is
Speaker 2: so nice and nothing happens there and so these are
Speaker 2: probably the most famous killers in Canada. Canada's pretty embarrassed
Speaker 2: about it. And then I don't know because the case
Speaker 2: is so fucked up. But I think the reason it's
Speaker 2: so popular is because they're hot.
Speaker 1: They were called the Ken and Barbie Killers, and I
Speaker 1: think the the bar for hotness and killers is low,
Speaker 1: because you know they're fine.
Speaker 3: There are for hotness in Canada as low. And I'm
Speaker 3: just kidding. No, Drake looks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, blonde, they're blondes, they're and love,
Speaker 2: they're young, and so everyone was shocked at these canon
Speaker 2: Barbie killers and that's what they're called if you want
Speaker 2: to google.
Speaker 3: Yah and one of their real names.
Speaker 2: So their real names are Carla Hamalka and Paul Bernardo.
Speaker 1: I don't remember what he looks like specifically, but I
Speaker 1: remember I've seen Carla Hamolka like in when I've looked
Speaker 1: up this crime before, and she's very like, yeah, eighties
Speaker 1: Barbie like big eighties hair like she looks like your
Speaker 1: eighties dream girl.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'll just mention this up top if that
Speaker 2: name does sound familiar to you.
Speaker 3: This past year, Don't Fuck With.
Speaker 2: Cats came out on Netflix, Yes, which was a popular
Speaker 2: true crimey type docuseries about Luke Magnata Luca Magnata and
Speaker 2: basically he puts up videos on the internet of killing cats.
Speaker 2: He ends up killing a man and then these two
Speaker 2: dorks from the internet that deserve their own show loved them.
Speaker 2: They get this online community to help find this guy.
Speaker 2: And he was connected with Hamalka because he said that
Speaker 2: he dated her, but it's not true.
Speaker 3: He just loved Well.
Speaker 1: Then he came in a videos where he's like, Carla
Speaker 1: and I are not an item, and it was.
Speaker 3: Like nobody said you were. Like he would create stories
Speaker 3: about himself.
Speaker 1: And then refute them and like give interviews as if
Speaker 1: he was important, like he was TMZ or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he also so one of the people he
Speaker 2: killed he chopped up into different pieces and he sent
Speaker 2: some of the body to an address for Lauri Haimalka,
Speaker 2: like Carla's other sister.
Speaker 3: That's a lie.
Speaker 2: So if you are like, oh, I've heard these names recently,
Speaker 2: they were part of that.
Speaker 1: And so this guy was I think it makes sense
Speaker 1: when you're saying about that this is like one of
Speaker 1: Canada's most famous crimes, because this guy wanted to be infamous.
Speaker 1: This Luca Magnata guy and so he's like, how can
Speaker 1: I be infamous? It's like trying to link yourself to
Speaker 1: Ted Bundy, you know what I mean. Like you just
Speaker 1: are like if I can somehow get involved with like
Speaker 1: get my name linked to her, everyone know who I am,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that's just you know, this is a
Speaker 2: crime that keeps on giving and so connected to this
Speaker 2: and it is fucked up people.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he like vacuum sealed cats.
Speaker 1: It was yeah, no that, but that's a recommendation if
Speaker 1: you're in two did you watch it?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah you did watch Oh I watched work with
Speaker 2: the Cats. No, but did you watch the cat killing videos?
Speaker 3: Well? Only what they showed on there?
Speaker 2: Okay, because you know that he called it like two cats,
Speaker 2: one one killer or something like he kind.
Speaker 3: Of fucked with the poop video. Yeah, all right, so
Speaker 3: let's see where this starts. Okay. So Carla.
Speaker 1: Basically, well this is really funny. The cops are like,
Speaker 1: this was a match made in hell, not heaven. So
Speaker 1: I love a cop with a saying all right, Basically,
Speaker 1: she was young.
Speaker 2: She was like a teen when she started dating him,
Speaker 2: So she was like later teen, like seventeen something, and
Speaker 2: he was in his twenties, so that's, you know, a
Speaker 2: little weird. But she brought he was six years older
Speaker 2: than her, and she was popular and pretty. But she
Speaker 2: just thought he was the fucking Beasneyes and would do
Speaker 2: anything for him. She bragged about him all the time,
Speaker 2: talked about him like she was devoted to this man,
Speaker 2: and he was. Paul was the youngest of three and
Speaker 2: he did have a difficult childhood, you know, stepdads that
Speaker 2: beat him, verbally, abusive. He was a teen peeping tom
Speaker 2: he was peeping in windows. He did go to college.
Speaker 2: He seemed normal.
Speaker 3: I think it's a peeping tommy when you're a teen.
Speaker 3: Oh is it?
Speaker 4: No, No, it's not.
Speaker 3: I'm so they're dating and there is a Scarsborough rapist
Speaker 3: that's out. So the whole town is scared and everyone
Speaker 3: is in fear of getting raped and attacked from behind.
Speaker 3: All these women are getting attacked and raped. And they said, light.
Speaker 1: Hair, young, and just the knowledge of a rapist rapists
Speaker 1: being around is terrorizing this town. In Canada, he made
Speaker 1: women call themselves degrading names. He brutalized people on the
Speaker 1: verge of homicide, and so the attacks were getting more
Speaker 1: and more violent, and we escalated, and we learned that
Speaker 1: in SVU, and you know, people get more comfortable. You
Speaker 1: can tell if it's someone's first crime or they're an
Speaker 1: experienced killer. And so they were scared that this was
Speaker 1: gonna get worse and worse. And he was driven by
Speaker 1: a sexual drive that was misdirected, and they knew that
Speaker 1: it would not stop until he was caught. The couple
Speaker 1: met eighty seven when there was already three Scarborough rape attacks.
Speaker 3: I mean, have I said the town name wrong every
Speaker 3: single time? Probably?
Speaker 2: I've said it different every time. So there were already
Speaker 2: three rape attacks before before they started dating. The sketches
Speaker 2: released and it looks just like him. He starts getting
Speaker 2: called from everywhere being like, bro, are you the Scarborough rapist?
Speaker 2: You know, like I just didn't apt out of a phone.
Speaker 1: If anyone wants to know that, I am committed to
Speaker 1: this podcast. But yeah, so everyone's like, uh, our friend
Speaker 1: is a rapist. We think he looks exactly like this
Speaker 1: drawing that's been released. And the cops said that they've
Speaker 1: never heard of men turning their friends in for rape.
Speaker 1: Usually they defend I said that, never mind, I thought
Speaker 1: the cops those my noteses didn't say that.
Speaker 3: I was shocked that boys are turning in their friends.
Speaker 2: Usually boys like have their friend's backs and don't turn
Speaker 2: them in and defend black.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's weird. This guy that looks like you is
Speaker 3: doing all these crimes.
Speaker 2: That, yeah, I can't believe it. So so whatever. So
Speaker 2: the Scarborough rapist things happened. So he moves to Saint
Speaker 2: Catherine to live with her parents. So suddenly the Scarborough
Speaker 2: attacks stop, and in Saint Catherine.
Speaker 3: The talks start.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, and no one suspects the thing that no
Speaker 2: one thinks, no one cares, no one, but legit. They
Speaker 2: stop in one town, start in another, all based on
Speaker 2: his movements.
Speaker 3: Uh huh.
Speaker 2: Now Christmas rolls around and he asks her to have
Speaker 2: sex with her sister, which is rape. Obviously she's underage.
Speaker 2: Tammy is fifteen at the time, and I wrote she's
Speaker 2: a virgo, which is where vogue virgos.
Speaker 4: She's not.
Speaker 3: I just looked up.
Speaker 2: It says Tammy was a virgo and Paul wanted a
Speaker 2: fuck a virgin.
Speaker 3: It is virgin, because why would I write virgo? It
Speaker 3: just auto correction.
Speaker 2: It did because the next one he was a virgo
Speaker 2: and Paul wanted a fuck a virgin.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: Tammy was a virgin and Paul wanted a fuck a virgin,
Speaker 2: and she agrees. She just loves Paul so fucking much
Speaker 2: that she agrees to drug her sister and let her
Speaker 2: my fucking my notes changed Beyonce to finance. I mean,
Speaker 2: I need a this is nuts, okay, But she lets
Speaker 2: Paul drug and rape her sister. They used animal tranquilizer
Speaker 2: that they stole from.
Speaker 3: A vet clinic. Jesus, and they videotaped the whole thing.
Speaker 2: So while the family is all sleeping on Christmas, they
Speaker 2: are drugging and raping one of the daughters.
Speaker 7: I mean, it.
Speaker 2: Is so fucked up. And then he orders Carla to
Speaker 2: assault the sister. So this is a little different from
Speaker 2: us to you. She's the yeah h he makes her
Speaker 2: do it, and so they both rape Tammy. Tammy begins
Speaker 2: to vomit and choke, and they dress her and hide
Speaker 2: the camera. They call nine one one and they act
Speaker 2: shocked and everything they said. They try to revive her
Speaker 2: but couldn't, and Christmas Eve she was dead.
Speaker 3: Nobody taught the sister she.
Speaker 1: Was actually fourteen and her birthday was like on New
Speaker 1: Year's Day. Wow, a few days later she would have
Speaker 1: turned fifteen. She never made it, shees, nobody thought the
Speaker 1: sister did it. They did find a burn mark on
Speaker 1: her face, but she's but they also said she died
Speaker 1: of natural causes.
Speaker 2: So this is like pretty bad police work. But they
Speaker 2: said that it was a the Carla and Paul said
Speaker 2: the burn mark on her face was from rugburn from
Speaker 2: trying to revive her, and so they just took it
Speaker 2: at face value. Drugs, drinking, it's the holidays, totally normal, and.
Speaker 1: She was just taking veterinary tranquilizers for fun. Well, my
Speaker 1: ketamine is right, people take ketamine for fun, and this
Speaker 1: is a horse tranquilizer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess, but maybe they didn't even do the
Speaker 3: the test yet. But also I don't think the cops
Speaker 3: brains went to Oh of course they drugged and raped
Speaker 3: your mind to go. Yeah, so that's a great thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, so I know one thought that did Carla
Speaker 2: and Paul move into their own home and poor de
Speaker 2: Lucy And I'm saying that correctly because I spelled it phonetically. No,
Speaker 2: so they moved to Port de Lucy and his aggression
Speaker 2: actually starts to turn onto Carla and that's the thing
Speaker 2: with narcissists, sociopaths, psychopaths, anything.
Speaker 3: You you think.
Speaker 2: That they're going to treat you different or that you're special,
Speaker 2: and it's not like they're eventually going to treat you
Speaker 2: like they treat everybody else.
Speaker 3: And so that's just something.
Speaker 2: If your friends with someone that you think you can change,
Speaker 2: you're not gonna So he he lets her know that
Speaker 2: he's this rapist and that he's the Scarborough rapist and.
Speaker 1: He's been all this time and now he just finally
Speaker 1: tells her this, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2: And then starts abusing her, and she doesn't want to
Speaker 2: leave him and fear that he will tell her parents
Speaker 2: that she killed her sister, which I think is a
Speaker 2: fair fear to have. And then he did give DNA
Speaker 2: two months earlier, but it wasn't tested yet because DNA
Speaker 2: is just like not the same as it is now
Speaker 2: as parts of using So they decide to get married,
Speaker 2: and as a wedding present, he brings Carla a young
Speaker 2: woman named Leslie. And Leslie is a fourteen year old
Speaker 2: girl and he wanted to keep her as a sex slave,
Speaker 2: and he abducted her from her own backyard, luring her
Speaker 2: with a cigarette.
Speaker 3: You know, teens love a cigarette. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I would have, you know, because people are like candy
Speaker 2: or puppies and like, I wouldn't betray me.
Speaker 1: If you had been like, hey, i've got a Parliament light,
Speaker 1: I would have been like, where are coming?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So unfortunately that sucks. So June ninety one, middle of
Speaker 2: the night, he wakes her up and he's like, guess what, babe,
Speaker 2: I got a fourteen year old girl here, and together
Speaker 2: they hold her captive in their home and assaulting her,
Speaker 2: recording this all on video.
Speaker 3: They strangle her, cut up. This is intense.
Speaker 2: They strangle her, cut up her body in case, the
Speaker 2: pieces in concrete blocks and drop them in the water.
Speaker 2: And this is two weeks before their wedding. Jesus, I've
Speaker 2: never even heard of all the movies, all the shows,
Speaker 2: all the true crime.
Speaker 3: It's like what the Mob used to do was put
Speaker 3: people in concrete.
Speaker 2: I thought it was full bodies though, I've just never
Speaker 2: but that wouldn't make sense.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. It depends on what kind of
Speaker 3: cement access you have, I guess. Yeah, and the mob does,
Speaker 3: aren't they like all construction? Everyone?
Speaker 2: Yeah, sleeping with the fish Oh, there's a funny Simpsons
Speaker 2: a fish called so I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: No, they say sleeping with the fishes.
Speaker 2: They think someone's dead, but actually Troy McLure focks fish
Speaker 2: and it's like funny if anyone wants like an appetite,
Speaker 2: not an app and a palette cleanser. After we find
Speaker 2: out about the Yeah, I mean, the thing is they're
Speaker 2: like a young hawk, like who knows how to cut
Speaker 2: people up.
Speaker 3: And put them in concrete blocks. It's just like so
Speaker 3: fucked up. They find the body of Leslie the day
Speaker 3: of the wedding in the concrete blocks. How I don't
Speaker 3: know they find it. So it's fucking gruesome.
Speaker 2: It's you know, it's heinous as fuck, and there's a
Speaker 2: veil of fear in Ontario. People are scared, but you know,
Speaker 2: these people are dancing the horror at this wedding.
Speaker 3: So they bring this FBI guy to help. They need
Speaker 3: the FBI.
Speaker 2: And I was really confused about this, Like I didn't
Speaker 2: realize FBI people because I know, like through Dexter, I
Speaker 2: learned like you can FBI people go help police stations
Speaker 2: and you.
Speaker 3: Can him it in Canada.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's wild that they don't have their
Speaker 2: own FBI. But maybe we just have more crimes here.
Speaker 2: I have no idea, but they brought someone from the
Speaker 2: FBI to help the case because it was like, so
Speaker 2: I brought like is it under the table? Is it consulting?
Speaker 2: I didn't know about their friends, so whatever. So Carla
Speaker 2: starts enticing girls like she's now an ant. So he
Speaker 2: wants virgins and yeah, so they find virgins.
Speaker 3: He's obsessed. She becomes like the Gallain Maxwell, yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And they want moments and trophy, like they
Speaker 2: want memento, so they videotape all of it. So they
Speaker 2: videotape all the attacks. So Kristin French was walking home
Speaker 2: from school in nineteen ninety two, so this is now.
Speaker 2: Leslie was in ninety one, this is nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 2: and Carla asked, will you help with directions? And they
Speaker 2: had a map. They're very good actors. I think that's
Speaker 2: what we're learning. Killers really know how to act. And
Speaker 2: so I wonder how many hall I mean, who knows?
Speaker 2: Can you imagine?
Speaker 3: Okay, Meryl Streep is a murderer.
Speaker 2: So they have a map out they're like, we need help.
Speaker 2: They bring her into the car. She's a reported missing ASAP.
Speaker 2: Witnesses do tell police they saw a girl with two
Speaker 2: people in a church parking lot in a beij Camaro.
Speaker 2: There's yeah, God, if you're gonna drive a Camaro, why
Speaker 2: would you have a to be bage? But the thing
Speaker 2: is it was the wrong lead of a car, so
Speaker 2: that bought these two some time. He drove a gold Nissan,
Speaker 2: not a tan Camaro. So and we learned this from
Speaker 2: a lot of SVU moments too. Wherever they open it
Speaker 2: up to the public to call with advice, you know, tips.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the tips range. They're afraid there's too many.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some aren't real, so it's really it's hard to
Speaker 2: go off of people tips.
Speaker 3: But whatever, So they got the call wrong.
Speaker 2: Paul and Carla keep her for several days, raping and sodomizing.
Speaker 3: Her, and then they strangle her good.
Speaker 2: They're fucking lunatics. The body has found April of nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety two. In nineteen ninety three, Paul beat the shit
Speaker 2: out of Carla and she had to go to the
Speaker 2: er and the DNA is finally tested like I don't
Speaker 2: know from them or what, but they knew it was
Speaker 2: Paul Bernardo. And the FBI guy said that he didn't
Speaker 2: figure it out faster, but that he's the Scarsborough rapist
Speaker 2: and Saint Catherine's murder. So the FBI guy is sad
Speaker 2: that he didn't connect all those together cause and the
Speaker 2: cops were right here about the escalation they just done.
Speaker 2: You know, it's poor police work, poor investigating everything. At
Speaker 2: least the FBI guy is taking responsibility for not being
Speaker 2: able to tie it together.
Speaker 3: But they were right. He did escalating, It did go
Speaker 3: to murder, it did get more.
Speaker 2: Vicious, and it sucks that they weren't faster in finding well.
Speaker 1: DNA would have helped if it was like as commonplace
Speaker 1: because this is the early nineties, it's just not as
Speaker 1: big yeah as it is now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's less than two years of marriage.
Speaker 3: She moves out.
Speaker 2: Okay, she thought that she was at the police for
Speaker 2: domestic violence against her, but they knew she was married
Speaker 2: to the psycho. So these are the cop games that
Speaker 2: were used to on SBU. She confesses everything to the family.
Speaker 2: She gets a lawyer and tells the truth. The truth
Speaker 2: in quotes, I would say, because she holds the key
Speaker 2: to putting him away. But she only agrees to testify
Speaker 2: for a reduced sentence, and a lot of Canadians and
Speaker 2: a lot of people and people that are interested in
Speaker 2: true crying. They call this like it's the deal of
Speaker 2: the century with the fucking devil. I mean, this is
Speaker 2: pretty insane. She did do all these things, but for
Speaker 2: her testimony, he as a subjective or not he is
Speaker 2: more dangerous than her. Maybe maybe not, but they needed
Speaker 2: to put him away, so she they agree. She blames
Speaker 2: him and said that he forced her against her will
Speaker 2: and that the proof is all in the home videos.
Speaker 2: February nineteen ninety three, there rest Paul and then to
Speaker 2: find the videos was a seventy one day search and
Speaker 2: they need those videos. Yeah, like because without the videos
Speaker 2: it's a he said, she said, and they're both not
Speaker 2: really that credible and stuff, and like she does have
Speaker 2: sympathy because he did abuse her, but the videos were
Speaker 2: really important for this case and her plea deal was
Speaker 2: kept secret from the public because the public would be
Speaker 2: so mad. Carla gets twelve years in jail. She actually
Speaker 2: gets two twelve year sentences, but she got to serve them.
Speaker 3: Concurrently, not consecutively. Yeah, they call it the deal of
Speaker 3: the century, truly, the deal of the century.
Speaker 2: And they had to keep it Serve twelve. You think
Speaker 2: we'll get to it, okay, But so there's no news.
Speaker 2: There's a news ban, like no one is allowed in.
Speaker 2: That's a report, like they are keeping this trial so secret.
Speaker 2: They cannot fuck with this trial.
Speaker 3: Shit in the US because everyone's just is too hungry
Speaker 3: for are there no trial bards.
Speaker 1: There are trials that are kept like not secret, but
Speaker 1: no press is allowed. But I mean I think that
Speaker 1: they still are like sensationalized in the media either way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they kept this so secret.
Speaker 2: This is also before OJ, and I feel like OJ
Speaker 2: was probably like the big media circus that kind of
Speaker 2: changed crime reporting forever. I would say, I don't, I can't,
Speaker 2: but I'm it could also been before Ojan.
Speaker 3: I'm just young and I'm not thinking about history. But
Speaker 3: OJ did really feel like the first kind of public
Speaker 3: crime that we were let into the yeah detail for
Speaker 3: DA four or something for years.
Speaker 2: So in May ninety five in Toronto, Paul Bernardo trial happens,
Speaker 2: people line up for.
Speaker 1: Blocks to get a seat inside. He pleads not guilty,
Speaker 1: of course, to nine charges, and the videos were crucial
Speaker 1: evidence that Carla is raping her sister and assaulting and
Speaker 1: nobody is forcing her. There wasn't a gunder her head
Speaker 1: or anything, and the tapes would have changed her sentencing
Speaker 1: for sure.
Speaker 3: Wow yeah, so well.
Speaker 1: I okay, and just to play devil's advocate because listen, I.
Speaker 3: Know, listen to this, you're gonna love this.
Speaker 1: When he was on his own, the women lived, whoa,
Speaker 1: he just raped them. But when it was with Carla,
Speaker 1: the women were killed because she probably had like a
Speaker 1: resentment towards them for like sleeping with her husband, even
Speaker 1: though it was like this psychosexual.
Speaker 3: Game that they were doing. She's the true killer. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like green, like Gary Greener.
Speaker 2: But it is that to me, is like would he
Speaker 2: have escalated all the way to murder on his own
Speaker 2: or did he need Carla to complete the murders because
Speaker 2: without be pre Carla, everyone survived. So it's again it's
Speaker 2: theory because we'll never know time wise. She says he's
Speaker 2: the mastermind. And then they played the tapes. You know,
Speaker 2: the tryal lasts four months. The public can only hear
Speaker 2: audio but not see them, and the jury did get
Speaker 2: to watch the videos. He made the girl say he's
Speaker 2: the king and they'll do anything he wants.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there was a lot of stuff.
Speaker 3: He was found. The jury only deliberates for eight hours.
Speaker 3: I believe in that along with tapes. Yeah, I wonder.
Speaker 2: You know, there's probably one guy that was like, oh
Speaker 2: but come on, are you sure?
Speaker 3: But those smuts wanted it, Okay, I need to know
Speaker 3: how much time these people got. Okay. So yeah, the
Speaker 3: worst deal ever in Canada. Oh what's amazing is there
Speaker 3: was a six month inquiry into the police work because
Speaker 3: the cops failed and mishandled the case so badly. There
Speaker 3: were so many mistakes and it fell through by just
Speaker 3: like moving from community to community, so they like the
Speaker 3: cops are unable to work together. And because they just moved,
Speaker 3: this didn't go anywhere. And this actually made the Canadians
Speaker 3: have a new system to track serial criminals. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that's like the Golden State killer. Like he
Speaker 1: was all up and down californ and none of these
Speaker 1: jurisdictions talk to each other, so he just was getting
Speaker 1: away with it for so long. She is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm glad that Canada did something about it
Speaker 2: and created a new system to track people. In two
Speaker 2: thousand and five, a twenty five year old Carla Is
Speaker 2: let out of jail after serving twelve years. People didn't
Speaker 2: think it was long enough obviously, and that she's the
Speaker 2: true psychopath of the group.
Speaker 3: But what are you going to do? In February two
Speaker 3: thousand and seven, she gave birth to a baby boy.
Speaker 1: Oh so this is what always makes me mad when
Speaker 1: I think like dating and stuff as hard as when
Speaker 1: I see these psychopaths just like get.
Speaker 3: Love and children. Yeah, I don't want a child. Wait,
Speaker 3: did you say how what Paul happened to Paul?
Speaker 2: He was found guilty on all counts and he got
Speaker 2: life in prison, eligible for pearl and twenty five years.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: I doubt they're going to give him pearle. So, yeah,
Speaker 3: life in prison.
Speaker 1: I wonder if he I wonder if he tried to
Speaker 1: ever say oh no it was Carla, Like do you
Speaker 1: think he.
Speaker 3: Ever turned on her? I don't know.
Speaker 2: And also, well I saw somewhere like Carla's volunteering at
Speaker 2: a Montreal school sometimes like she paid her debt and
Speaker 2: she's out and about and she's raising her son, And
Speaker 2: I'm like, are you gonna tell your son he's gonna
Speaker 2: find out?
Speaker 3: Is it immoral?
Speaker 1: You must not have a sex defender registry in Canada
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't be allowed to be near children if
Speaker 1: you were found guilty of like killing a fourteen year old.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and then with sexual registries, can you have
Speaker 3: your own kids? Yeah? I mean I can't hire a life.
Speaker 1: You have to go to iced attention for that to
Speaker 1: happen to you in this country. Sorry, I'm getting political.
Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe I should have found more information
Speaker 3: on what they're up to.
Speaker 2: Now, this is what's tard because I was about to say,
Speaker 2: don't do things to impress your boyfriend, but she could
Speaker 2: have been the mastermind of a lot of.
Speaker 3: The Yeah, we don't know. That's what's really wild.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just gonna say, if a man asks to
Speaker 2: rape your sister on Christmas, say no, that's not the
Speaker 2: man for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, but you have to think also that it's not
Speaker 1: like he threw that out her at her Like first thing.
Speaker 1: They obviously had some kind of like psycho sexual relationship
Speaker 1: going on where he was probably manipulating her a lot,
Speaker 1: and she was so in love with him, Like you said,
Speaker 1: she talked about him all the time, she bragged about him.
Speaker 3: So it's like, yeah, he probably.
Speaker 1: Kept inching up and inching up, like how much he
Speaker 1: could push her boundaries until he suggested this thing. It
Speaker 1: was never like let's kill her. It was like, I
Speaker 1: want to have sex with your sister, Like won't that
Speaker 1: be hot?
Speaker 3: She's like the same as you. I mean he probably
Speaker 3: just you know.
Speaker 1: And then like maybe that wasn't supposed to be a
Speaker 1: murder because it sounds like the way she died was
Speaker 1: more of an accident. But yeah, because she woke up,
Speaker 1: but even the second not the crimes that followed, so
Speaker 1: they obviously got a taste for it afterwards.
Speaker 3: And I want to give a quick shout out.
Speaker 2: I think SVU did a really great job of like
Speaker 2: somehow making the story even more disgusting and wild when.
Speaker 3: You make it younger, it's more traumatic, but also sticking
Speaker 3: to a lot of these facts and switching it.
Speaker 2: And like they they globbed on the baby details and
Speaker 2: put them in. I think they did a really good
Speaker 2: job adapting this crime into their show. And now we
Speaker 2: have a guest and I can't wait.
Speaker 1: Yeah, excited to talk to our guests, and we will
Speaker 1: be back with all that.
Speaker 3: It is now time for our guests, and I'm super thrilled.
Speaker 3: She is the star of this episode and in one
Speaker 3: of my favorite movies for a good time call.
Speaker 1: She starred this year in Hulu series Missus America. You've
Speaker 1: seen her on showtimes I'm dying up here. She was
Speaker 1: truly Liza's first request when we decided that we were
Speaker 1: going to have guests on this podcast. That is not
Speaker 1: a joke. We also discovered that she and I went
Speaker 1: to the same college at the same time for a
Speaker 1: brief amount of time, and we are so so thrilled
Speaker 1: to have Missy Kurtz herself on the podcast. Please check
Speaker 1: out our interview with Ari Greener.
Speaker 2: You're IMDb your first roll with Sopranos, and then you
Speaker 2: got this giant partner to you.
Speaker 3: Were you like, I'm so good?
Speaker 5: Yeah, Yeah, I had been doing listen. I had been
Speaker 5: hitting the pavement for many years on the local community
Speaker 5: theater scene in outside of Boston, and then was doing
Speaker 5: like children's theater there and was like doing all this stuff,
Speaker 5: and then I did the Sopranos and then I mean,
Speaker 5: the Law and Order SVU episode was kind of a
Speaker 5: big deal because I was like, this is a complete
Speaker 5: rite of passage for every actor in the world, and
Speaker 5: I was like, so, if this is happening, it's happened. Wow,
Speaker 5: it was a very it was a very exciting gig.
Speaker 3: I mean, did you watch the show beforehand?
Speaker 7: I wasn't today watched the show.
Speaker 1: It was only season four, so it's not crazy that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't like it was. You were on season four,
Speaker 1: so like it wasn't like at USA marathons all the
Speaker 1: time status yet you know.
Speaker 7: Yeah, like how many seasons are we at now?
Speaker 1: They're about to start twenty two that's what's about to
Speaker 1: Holy shit. Yeah, so you're like, yeah, early days, like I.
Speaker 5: Think i'd seen and you know, i'd seen it, but
Speaker 5: it wasn't like, uh, it was not my I was
Speaker 5: not recording the show, you know what I mean and
Speaker 5: watching it when I got home from school kind of deal.
Speaker 5: But it was still a very thrilling opportunity and it.
Speaker 7: Was like a big role. Yeah, it was like a
Speaker 7: big part.
Speaker 2: But when you read the script and realized how insane
Speaker 2: your character was going to be and how wild, what
Speaker 2: did you do to prepare and how did you feel
Speaker 2: when you read that you were like raped and helped
Speaker 2: kill your sister.
Speaker 5: I mean, listen, my memory, full disclosure, my memory is
Speaker 5: not great, probably because I've been smoking a little bit
Speaker 5: too much quante, but my uh, I mean I think
Speaker 5: I just was like, what a fun, what a fun,
Speaker 5: outrageous thing to do. I didn't totally understand about how
Speaker 5: I gave my sister Goneria. And I remember like talking
Speaker 5: about it to family friends, being like, yeah, and so
Speaker 5: I played this character and she's sort of troubled and
Speaker 5: she gives her sister goner Rhea, And that's the thing
Speaker 5: that I remember most from it.
Speaker 7: I haven't watched I haven't watched it, Like.
Speaker 5: Do you guys watch all the episodes before you have
Speaker 5: these conversations?
Speaker 1: We also seen your episode. Probably it's one of my
Speaker 1: top favorites.
Speaker 3: It's haunting. Come on, no that I'm not a bit
Speaker 3: I'm not.
Speaker 1: I'm not exaggerating to you in one And any way,
Speaker 1: when we came up with the idea for this podcast,
Speaker 1: the first thing Lisa said was, oh, my god, do
Speaker 1: you think we can get Auri Greener for the episode
Speaker 1: she's in.
Speaker 3: I swear to God, because up, what a triumph do.
Speaker 2: Because I also love for a good time call. I
Speaker 2: think it's like the best movie about female friendship. I
Speaker 2: have a movie sized poster of it, and so I
Speaker 2: was just so thrilled but that speech at the end
Speaker 2: that you give that it's so chilling when you're like,
Speaker 2: you can't kill me, I'm.
Speaker 3: Already, I mean it is.
Speaker 1: It launts me and you're playing a teen and it's
Speaker 1: just it's one of the twists.
Speaker 3: It's so scary. I don't know. It just haunted me
Speaker 3: for years now.
Speaker 5: I will say, and I don't know what this says
Speaker 5: about my career, but that episode, in that line in particular,
Speaker 5: is so is still oft quoted to me.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 7: It really resonated with people. I guess it really hit
Speaker 7: really hit a nerve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many it's just it's so twisted, and
Speaker 2: there's so many turns where then there's a restraining order,
Speaker 2: they can't get to the sister, there's organs and needing
Speaker 2: to be donated.
Speaker 3: It's it's did somebody did she die? Yeah? Or yeah?
Speaker 7: Did I kill her?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 1: I mean you, well she died in the shooting that
Speaker 1: you set up with your boyfriend and your boyfriend's friends, right,
Speaker 1: and you a necklace.
Speaker 3: For money and you paid them and then they he
Speaker 3: was willing that's another favorite line where he was willing
Speaker 3: to take the death penalty for you but then and
Speaker 3: they're like, of course he loved you, he would have
Speaker 3: done that and you go, but he didn't, and it's
Speaker 3: that was really a good one too.
Speaker 4: Oh wow.
Speaker 5: I do remember shooting like there was some scene the
Speaker 5: scenes that I remember shooting.
Speaker 7: I remember shooting that end.
Speaker 5: Scene and I remember like being in my jail jumpsuit
Speaker 5: and Stephanie Marsh being there and thinking she was really
Speaker 5: pretty and like leaning into the camera for like, you
Speaker 5: can't kill me, I'm already dead.
Speaker 7: And then I remember, and then I remember.
Speaker 5: There was like a secret camera footage of me seducing
Speaker 5: my boyfriend h As played by Chris Denham.
Speaker 7: He's such a good actor, and that was kind of the.
Speaker 5: First time that i'd ever like gotten to do something
Speaker 5: kind of sexy, and so I remember that was kind
Speaker 5: of fun, and I feel like maybe like like like
Speaker 5: I and I remember like really kissing him like I'd
Speaker 5: never done a kiss before like that, So I didn't
Speaker 5: know like the protocol about like using tongue or not,
Speaker 5: and it's possible that I did.
Speaker 3: Just lifted in there to be as real as possible.
Speaker 7: I was like this, you have to make this real.
Speaker 5: I remember that, and then I remember some scene where
Speaker 5: I'm crying, like where they come to maybe they come
Speaker 5: into the house and interview me, and I'm like, you're
Speaker 5: in the hospital.
Speaker 3: You're crying, and att house. She's in a peasant tops.
Speaker 7: I have two braids? Is it possible that I had
Speaker 7: two braids?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Okay?
Speaker 5: And I remember that was exciting because that was the
Speaker 5: first time, like in a nerdy actor way, that I
Speaker 5: really it was like the first time that I like
Speaker 5: really really cried doing something, Like I felt like I
Speaker 5: got into enough where I was like, whoa, this is
Speaker 5: a feeling when you like really feel the feeling of
Speaker 5: what's going on.
Speaker 7: That was a big deal. It was a big bumm.
Speaker 2: There was also a scene at hospital where it's like
Speaker 2: Richard Bellser and iced tea and then you're there and
Speaker 2: was do you remember that?
Speaker 3: Like that seems so intimidate, Like if I was, I
Speaker 3: would be so because you're this like young actress. It's
Speaker 3: only your second credit. You're there with like iced tea
Speaker 3: and Richard Belzer and you're bawling, and this is when
Speaker 3: we really believe you that you're like upset about your
Speaker 3: sister and all this stuff.
Speaker 5: Right, I definitely remember that's my dog that's my dog.
Speaker 5: My dog toutsie, Hey touts It's cool. We're all cool, thanks.
Speaker 7: Man. I do remember being like generally intimidated, and I was.
Speaker 5: The kind of person on a set, especially like for
Speaker 5: those first few and by few, I mean like ten
Speaker 5: years on set where I would be like I don't
Speaker 5: want to be in anyone's way, Like I don't want to.
Speaker 7: Like some people are like, hey, here I am, I'm
Speaker 7: on set and pain.
Speaker 5: By the monitor, and I was always like I never
Speaker 5: want to step on anyone's toes.
Speaker 7: I never wanted to be.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 5: So I remember being like nervous, but I feel like
Speaker 5: everyone was really nice. Oh man, I really wish that
Speaker 5: there was a that I could remember, like me and
Speaker 5: Richard Bilser we must have talked about something like we
Speaker 5: must have had like a chit chat. Me nice, But
Speaker 5: I can't recall it. I should just make up some
Speaker 5: story about it.
Speaker 2: Well, no, because we were also going to ask you
Speaker 2: about Mariska's highlights if they looked as good in person
Speaker 2: as on TV. But that seems like a very specific,
Speaker 2: crazy question after so many years.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I just remember whenever that scene was,
Speaker 5: she walked in and she was super nice, but.
Speaker 7: Was also like, okay, guys, let's let's do it.
Speaker 5: Let's get out, Like maybe she had theater tickets or
Speaker 5: something like.
Speaker 7: There was something about.
Speaker 5: Now, let's let's do let's get this, And of course
Speaker 5: I was just so excited to be on the set.
Speaker 5: I was like, why wouldn't everyone just want to be
Speaker 5: here for as long as humanly possible?
Speaker 7: But she does have great highlights. I wonder what she
Speaker 7: thought about.
Speaker 5: I wonder what like signing up for a show like
Speaker 5: that and ever imagining you would be doing it for
Speaker 5: twenty two years?
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you gotten her on the.
Speaker 7: Show where it's a dream.
Speaker 3: It's a dream. We're gonna try try our best. Yeah,
Speaker 3: first we got to impress her, I think.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all this, Yeah, just thanks for taking the time,
Speaker 1: and I'll smoke a lot of week today and on review.
Speaker 7: Yeah, oh good, Yeah, thank you so much too.
Speaker 1: And I hope you and TUTSI make it through the
Speaker 1: pandemic still friends. All right, let's get that was an
Speaker 1: amazing interview and honestly a dream come true. Lisa was
Speaker 1: glowing the entire time.
Speaker 3: I was and now, well I'm excited.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, she was amazing, So this is our what
Speaker 2: we call our post mortem. Yeah for anyway, And this
Speaker 2: is where we wrap it up. We tell you our lessons,
Speaker 2: what we learned. And it's a fun clever name that
Speaker 2: has to do with law and order, murder postmortem but
Speaker 2: fun Morgan's here post mortem.
Speaker 3: But make it, make it.
Speaker 2: I hope we can go to a morgue one day
Speaker 2: for not sad reasons. I'd like to see what they're like,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, like a tour.
Speaker 1: Hey, if you're a mortician listener out there, or you
Speaker 1: were or a medical examiner, hit us up, because I'm
Speaker 1: also thinking of like death Becomes Her and men in
Speaker 1: black like I've just never been a part of you
Speaker 1: want to slide one of those bodies out of the thing,
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, open one of those little refrigerator doors and be.
Speaker 3: Like, psh, what did we learn? Let's learn.
Speaker 1: My major takeaway is, look, I've got a little sister.
Speaker 1: You are a little sister. Let's not let's just not
Speaker 1: give up our little sisters as sexual favors to people.
Speaker 1: I know that that was in the real case that
Speaker 1: she gave her little sister up, and in this case, uh,
Speaker 1: Missy's character just kind of like wanted.
Speaker 2: To trouble I love when Ari goes, you know, I'm
Speaker 2: playing a girl that's really troubled. I'm like, that's a
Speaker 2: vag understatement to say full blown psychopath. I also would
Speaker 2: like to say, if you're going to pawn stuff for
Speaker 2: money to commit a crime, leave town. Yeah, go do
Speaker 2: another jurisdiction to pawn. Yeah, you don't want to get caught,
Speaker 2: because I think.
Speaker 1: Our goal is to also, through these tips, help people
Speaker 1: commit crime successfully, like stop being dumb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I didn't realize.
Speaker 2: But I guess the pawn people and the police and
Speaker 2: authorities probably have a close knit relationship.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to this, but if your
Speaker 2: kid kills your other kid, do you forgive that kid
Speaker 2: or do you hate that kid?
Speaker 1: I think that depends on the circumstances.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's really tough. It's tough.
Speaker 1: I don't know that's happened a lot of times. I've
Speaker 1: read a lot of, you know, stories about that.
Speaker 2: The only time I've heard parents turn in their kid
Speaker 2: was in the movie Alpha Dog with Justin Timberlake, which
Speaker 2: was based on a real crime as well. Watch out
Speaker 2: for our next podcast. I also would like to say,
Speaker 2: if the cops ask you to step outside your home.
Speaker 3: Do not do it. Yeah, do not do it.
Speaker 2: If they say you've won an award even though you
Speaker 2: shot multiple people.
Speaker 3: You need to you need to stay inside the house.
Speaker 2: If your dad is trying to make sure you don't
Speaker 2: get the death penalty, listen to him.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If hot girl, even though she's great at sex,
Speaker 3: is telling you kill my sister and fuck her, you
Speaker 3: you don't have to do it.
Speaker 1: There are so many other girls you can fuck. There
Speaker 1: are so many others. I know that you're fifteen and
Speaker 1: you think this is a hot girl, there are so
Speaker 1: many other options out there.
Speaker 2: And we did research how to get girl on girl gonorrhea. Yes,
Speaker 2: and basically if you like use a dildo or any
Speaker 2: other item in yourself and then put it into it.
Speaker 1: Can be transferred. I mean I think you can just
Speaker 1: say it could be transferred through sex choice. Okay, how
Speaker 1: many people get it?
Speaker 3: So we've learned a lot.
Speaker 2: I think this was one of the more horrific episodes
Speaker 2: season four, right out the gate, and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah it was. It was truly a to talk
Speaker 3: to Ari. I know, it was like one of our
Speaker 3: first things we wanted when we came up with this podcast.
Speaker 2: Also, don't ever go don't ever utter the words out
Speaker 2: loud what could be worse, because they'll find a way,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: What I mean.
Speaker 1: When the mom was She's like, what could be worse
Speaker 1: than this? It's like we have to sit down.
Speaker 3: Says yeah, I got something to tell you out loud?
Speaker 3: Ever ever, ever.
Speaker 1: And now it's time for what would Sister Peg Do?
Speaker 1: Which is our weekly segment where we take a moment
Speaker 1: to give you some more resources to further your knowledge
Speaker 1: on a topic that was tackled in today's episode.
Speaker 3: This week, it's just a book.
Speaker 1: This week's episode dealt with teen psychopaths, so we thought
Speaker 1: we'd I'd recommend John Ronson's book. It's called The Psychopath
Speaker 1: Test and it's a really interesting book about psychopathy that
Speaker 1: is very factual, provides a lot of factual information, but
Speaker 1: it reads more like a fun novel and not like
Speaker 1: a psych textbook or article.
Speaker 3: So we recommend that to all of you guys.
Speaker 2: And next week we'll be covering the Sview episode raw,
Speaker 2: so watch along with us. It's season seven, episode six,
Speaker 2: and you can do that on Hulu peacock and if
Speaker 2: you're rich, you.
Speaker 3: Know, buy it. See you next week.
Speaker 2: That's messed up as an Exactly Right production. If you
Speaker 2: have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd
Speaker 2: like us to cover, shoot us an email at That's
Speaker 2: Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 1: personally at Kara Klink and at glitter Cheese. As always,
Speaker 1: please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s
Speaker 2: View super fan Hannah Kyle Creighton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie
Speaker 1: Snelson are Engineers.
Speaker 3: To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaire for our theme song.
Speaker 1: To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of
Speaker 1: our artwork. Thank you to our executive producer, Georgia hard Start,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4: Don dug