1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,440 Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to sign Stuff, a production of iHeartRadio. I'm 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: hoor Cham and today we are going to Mars. We're 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: going to find out what it's like there on our 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: red sister planet and if we could ever transform it 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: to make it livable for billionaires and space colonists. We're 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: going to talk to a NASA expert as well as 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: a comparative planetologist who specializes in the Mars atmosphere. So 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: pack your spacesuit and bring extra sunscreen because we are 9 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: moving to Mars for the next half hour. Here unsigned stuff, enjoy. 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, here are some facts you might not know 11 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: about the planet Mars. It's about half the diameter of Earth. 12 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 1: It takes almost two earth years to go around the Sun. 13 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 1: The gravity there is forty percent what it is year. 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: It's home to the largest mountain in the Solar System, 15 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: which is two and a half times taller than Mount Everest, 16 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: and it's home to the biggest canyon in the Solar System, 17 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: which is five times deeper than the Grand Canyon. On 18 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 1: February twenty twenty one, that says Mars rover Perseverance recorded 19 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: audio from one of its external microphones. So here's what 20 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: it sounds like to be on Mars. Seems pretty peaceful, right, 21 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: So threecap Mars is smaller, so everything there would be closer. 22 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,480 Speaker 1: You technically be half as old if you count your 23 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: age in Mars ears. You can duncate basketball more easily 24 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: there because the gravity is lower. Its amazing sights to see, 25 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: and at least for now, there are no crowds. Sounds 26 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 1: like a pretty nice place to move to, right And 27 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: in fact, people have been talking a lot about moving 28 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 1: to Mars recently, and it's not just because a crazy 29 00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: billionaire is investing in it. Some people say it's clear 30 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,639 Speaker 1: we might run out of space here on Earth someday, 31 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 1: or we might ruin it with nuclear war or environmental disaster, 32 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: in which case it would be nice to have a 33 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 1: backup place to move to. And others say it's human 34 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 1: destiny to move beyond Earth and conquer the stars, starting 35 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: with the closest planet to us. But as we'll learn today, 36 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: Mars is not quite the ideal relocation destination to explore this. 37 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: Today's episode is split into two parts. First, we'll ask 38 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: could we move there right now? What's it like there 39 00:02:54,120 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 1: on Mars? And could we survive living there? Second, we'll 40 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 1: talk about the idea of terraforming Mars, which is the 41 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: idea that we can change Mars to make it more 42 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: like Earth. What would it take and is it even possible? 43 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 1: All Right, the first person I talked to was doctor 44 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: Sandra Sillystrom, scientist at NASSE. Well, thank you so much, 45 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: Actor Silistrom for joining. 46 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: Us, Thank you for letting me come here. 47 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: Can you tell me who you are and what you do. 48 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 2: So I am an astrobiologist looking for life in the universe, 49 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: and particularly looking for life on Mars. So I'm currently 50 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 2: part of the science team from the NASA Perseverance Rover 51 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: that's currently roving Mars and collecting sample for Mars Super turns. 52 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: So bringing rocks back from Mars. 53 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: Well, that's amazing and so cool. To start us off, 54 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 1: can you describe for us what it's like on Mars, Like, 55 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 1: what is the atmosphere, like, what is the terrain there? 56 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 2: Well, so, it's not a very nice place to be 57 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: for living things and humans. It's a very hostile place. 58 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 2: It's cold and very dry, so there's no lands or animals. 59 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 2: It's just rocks, loose sand lying in dunes, and the 60 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: atmosphere is very thin. The pressure on The surface of 61 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: Mars is on a one percent what we have on 62 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: the surface of Earth. 63 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: What does that mean one percent? 64 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: It means there's no oxygen or anything for us to breathe, 65 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: but it also means there's no protection against radiation coming 66 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 2: in frown space. So it's not a very nice place 67 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:39,239 Speaker 2: to visit. 68 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 1: And how cold is it there? 69 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: It's typically below freezing. It can go down to less 70 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: than one hundred degrees celsius and it rarely goes above 71 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 2: freezing or zero degrees celsius. 72 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: For those of you that prefer fahrenheit. Mars has an 73 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:00,040 Speaker 1: average temperature of about minus eighty degrees fahrenheit, and in 74 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: the North and South Poles it can get as cold 75 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: as minus two hundred and twenty five degrees fahrenheit. 76 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 2: And it's very dry because there's no running water on 77 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 2: the surface and almost no humidity, so it's a very 78 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 2: dry place, basically a dry desert, cold dessert. 79 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: Is the whole planet like that or only parts of it? 80 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: Is there any variation? 81 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: Well, in terms of climate, it's pretty similar. I mean 82 00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: yet equator. You can have sometimes actually above freezing a 83 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: couple of days, and it's colder of course at the poles, 84 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,679 Speaker 2: but in general it's below freezing all over the planet, 85 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: plus very dry. 86 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: So what would happen if I just teleport it to 87 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: Mars right now without any protection? What would happen to me? 88 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: I think you would die pretty fast. I mean, first 89 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: of all, because there's no oxygen right, so you couldn't 90 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: breed anything. So I think that would kill you before 91 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 2: you froze to death. You will definitely not survive very long. 92 00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: I see now is the problem that there's no air 93 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: for that, the air that is there doesn't have oxygen or. 94 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 2: Both both, so it's a low pressure environment. You would 95 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 2: need some kind of pressure suit, but you also would 96 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 2: need oxygen to bring with you to breed. Right the 97 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 2: atmosphere it's ninety five percent CO two and there's basically 98 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: no oxygen, so I don't remember the exact number, but 99 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 2: it's below one percent. 100 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: What's Mars always like it is right now? Or did 101 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: it have a different history? 102 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: So actually, if you go there and just take picture 103 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: of the surface, you actually see there's a lot of 104 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 2: feature indicating that we're flowing water at some point. So 105 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: there are water on Mars, but most of it is 106 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: either frozen at the poles, or just beneath the surface. 107 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: But at some point some of that water actually flowed 108 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: and it carved out like meandering river structures. You can 109 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: see deltas at the end of rivers into the lake. 110 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Wow, how long ago was that? 111 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 2: This was a long time ago, so maybe aund four 112 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: billion years ago, so very early in the story of Mars. 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: So four billion years ago, if you went to Mars, 114 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 1: you would see lakes. 115 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: And rivers, yeah, presumably. 116 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: And clouds and brain yeah. Oh what about the atmosphere? 117 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: Was it always one percent or was it different? 118 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 3: No? 119 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 2: So it's believed that the atmosphere were thicker, and this 120 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: is one of the reasons people think there's no water now, 121 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 2: is because the atmosphere creates pressure, right, and the pressure 122 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: makes the water be able to be liquid and not frozen. 123 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 2: So what people think is that there was a thicker atmosphere, 124 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: but that disappeared quite early in the history of Mars. 125 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: And when the atmosphere disappeared, the liquid water also froze. 126 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: Oh, so it's due to the lack of atmosphere that disappeared. 127 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: Do we know what happened to the atmosphere? Why did 128 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: it go away? 129 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 2: So this is also one big research topic about Mars, 130 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: and one of the reasons is there's no magnetic field, 131 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 2: and also Mars has less gravity they hold atmosphere. 132 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: Okay, so it sounds like Earth and Mars were sort 133 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: of like twins at the beginning. I mean they were 134 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: very similar, rocky, there were lakes, there was water, there's 135 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: a thick atmosphere. But now Earth it's super different than Mars. 136 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so that makes it also very interesting. One is 137 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 2: teeming with life and you have the oceans a lot 138 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: of life, but the other one is like a dry desert. 139 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,679 Speaker 2: Do you also have venos Actually, oh right, Venus, which 140 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: is almost the opposite because they have too much atmosphere 141 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 2: and it's very warm. Instead, it's covered by that thick case, 142 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:37,599 Speaker 2: so it's hard to serve the surface and if you 143 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: try to land something, it kind of dies within a 144 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 2: couple of minutes because it's the heat is so high. Wow. 145 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: So it's like there were triplets. They're all like the 146 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: same and they all took different paths. 147 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I see. 148 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: Okay, So there's a lot of talk now about going 149 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 1: to Mars, maybe establishing a colony there, exploring it. Is 150 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: it a place where humans could live? Are there resources there? 151 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,640 Speaker 1: For us to live out the land or do we 152 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: have to bring everything with us like a camping trip. 153 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 2: So there is a lot of research going into city 154 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:14,319 Speaker 2: to resource utilizations. This is like using stuff on ground. 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 2: There are some resources. For example, you could take the 156 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 2: CEO two and then split that and make O. 157 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: Two and so we have that technology to turn COE 158 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 1: two back into oxygen. 159 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: Yes, hopefully we'll make some way to make oxygen so 160 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:32,720 Speaker 2: you can breathe, and then we would have to make 161 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 2: food and also shelter. So one of the big problems 162 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,960 Speaker 2: because we don't have that atmosphere is radiation. So the 163 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 2: radiation level on Mars is much higher than on Earth. 164 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: So one thing if we go there is to build 165 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: a shelter that you would maybe be able to manufactures, 166 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: although there's rock materi lying on the surface like a 167 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 2: dome to protect from radiation. 168 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 1: Like, you couldn't just rely on your suit or a 169 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: camping tent. You need a thick wall to protect you. 170 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:05,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you could go there and stay for a 171 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,120 Speaker 2: shorter time in some like inflatable type of habitat, but 172 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: then if you want to stay longer, you would probably 173 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 2: need to build some type of thicker like a dome. 174 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: I see. 175 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 2: Another thing people are thinking about. So there seems to 176 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: be caves, so you would be able to, you know, 177 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: live in a cave or something, because then you would 178 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 2: have automatically that prediction. 179 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 1: I see, But then you might run into Martian bears. 180 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 2: Well I don't think. 181 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: So, okay. The last thing I talked to you, doctor 182 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: Sillystorm about was whether we could grow food on Mars 183 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: right now? Okay, so maybe we have energy shelter oxygen there. 184 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: What about food? Is there is there a possibility to 185 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: grow food there? 186 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: There've been some scientific tests where they kind of grow 187 00:10:56,120 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 2: things and Martian analog soils, and it seems possible. One 188 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 2: problem is that there's toxic things in the Martian soil 189 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 2: that's not very good. There's type of salt called percurates, 190 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 2: which is quite common on Mars, that is not very 191 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 2: beneficial for the growth. You need to add like nitigen phosphorus, 192 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,160 Speaker 2: which may not be abundant and not I mean, the 193 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 2: sun is also less strong on Mars because we're further away, 194 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: so you need to have netlives or something to get 195 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 2: the photosynthesis. You have plenty of seal too, so that's 196 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: not a problem. 197 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: Okay, to recap. Mars is not the dream destination some 198 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: movies make it out to be. In fact, it seems 199 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: pretty dangerous to live there. It's freezing cold. There's very 200 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: little air or oxygen while the water is frozen at 201 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: the poles. You can't really grow food there. You need 202 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,959 Speaker 1: to wear a pressurized suit the whole time, and most 203 00:11:57,040 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: likely you have to live in a cave that's not 204 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: peaceful or relaxing at all. Now, there is something that 205 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: serious scientists think we can do to make Mars a 206 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: nicer place to live, and that is terraforming. So when 207 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 1: we come back, we'll talk to an expert about what 208 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: that is and whether it could ever work. Don't go anywhere, 209 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: we'll be right back and we're back. Okay, we learned 210 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 1: that Mars is not a cozy place. It's not nearly 211 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: as bad as the other planets in our Solar System, 212 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: but still living there would be like living in Antarctica, 213 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: except there's almost no air to breathe. There's a ton 214 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: of radiation, and if you took off your spacesuit you'd die. 215 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: This is why people have talked about terraforming Mars, which 216 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:02,079 Speaker 1: is to change at mosphere. Now to fill us in 217 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: on how that works and whether it's possible reached out 218 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: to a Mars terrorforming expert. Doctor Francois Forge is an 219 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: astrophysicist who has worked on many space missions for NASA 220 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: and the European Space Agency. Here's how he describes what 221 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 1: he does. 222 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 3: So, I'm a planetary scientist. I study mostly the atmosphere 223 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 3: on other planets and in particular Mars. I've been working 224 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: on many a space mission on the ground and in orbit. 225 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 3: I'm among the person who does climate modeling, the same 226 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 3: thing you do on the Ears to do climate prediction, 227 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 3: but we apply these models to other planet, in particular 228 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: planet Mars. 229 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: The start off, what is it like in Mars if 230 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:44,679 Speaker 1: we were together there? 231 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 3: And mass today has many similarities with the Ears because 232 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 3: the length of the day is twenty four hours and 233 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,199 Speaker 3: forty minutes. You have seasons just like on the Earth. 234 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: Because the tilts of the axis of rotation is about 235 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 3: the same that on Earths. As the consequence, you have 236 00:14:01,200 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 3: a low pressure system jet. When you have moonsunjets, you 237 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 3: have many similities. Of course, it's different because it's much drier, 238 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 3: the pressure is very low. You have on average six 239 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 3: hundred and ten million bars, but that's one hundred time 240 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 3: less than on the Earth, so it can be very 241 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 3: cold that it deserts like planet. 242 00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: Next, I ask him to describe what terraforming is. Now, 243 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: you wrote a paper about this idea of terraforming bars, 244 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: can you explain to us what terraforming is. 245 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 3: Okay? Terraforming is to modify your environment at the planetary 246 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 3: scale so that you can either make life easier for humans, 247 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: or you can also a low life, typically terrestrial life, 248 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: to grow and develop there, and ultimately you can even 249 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 3: imagine completely adapting it to a human life. 250 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: According to doctor Farge, there are three levels of terraforming. 251 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: It's sort of like when you go to the spa 252 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: and you get a choice of three levels of treatment. 253 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: You can get just a bag massage, or you can 254 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: get the full body massage, or you can get the 255 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: full body massage plus the modbath, the hot stones and 256 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: those little cucumbers that cover your eyes, or you can 257 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: think of it like levels in a video game. They're 258 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: all terraforming, but each level gets harder and trickier. Here's 259 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: how doctor Farge describes each level. 260 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 3: One is to directly raise the pressure so that you 261 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 3: can walk around without a spacesuit, a seconetist who adapts 262 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: mass to some form of terroristial life, and finally to 263 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 3: adapt mass for humans to be just like the Earth. 264 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: Interesting. There's three levels of terraforming. 265 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and there are side options. 266 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: Now we'll get into each of these levels, but first 267 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: I was curious about where the side came from. 268 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 3: This is not a new idea. It's something you can 269 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 3: find in many science fiction books, movies, even games. It's 270 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 3: quite a popular concept. Ellen Musk has been popularizing it 271 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 3: because he wants to do that. But in reality, if 272 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 3: you look at the technical and scientific literature, there are 273 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,760 Speaker 3: very very little studies, not many studies about that, so 274 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 3: you can become a specialist quite quickly. So the point 275 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 3: is to say that there have been some speculations, some 276 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: scientific studies in the seventies and the eighties. A key 277 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: scientific studies was published in nineteen ninety one by Chris McKay, 278 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 3: Riot Tune, and Jim Casting. They were all together at 279 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 3: the Nazaims Research Center. I was there just after this, 280 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 3: so I know them well. And this is really something 281 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 3: that is at the basis of many of the speculation 282 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 3: that you can read today in the pular literature and 283 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 3: stuff like that, and lots of the concept that I 284 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: will describe today are in fact described very well in 285 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 3: this interesting paper. 286 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: Okay, to start, here's level one of terraforming Mars, and 287 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: that is to simply raise the atmospheric pressure. 288 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 2: There. 289 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: As mentioned before, the air on Mars is one hundred 290 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: times thinner than it is on Earth, so all you 291 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: have to do is make more air. 292 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 3: So now let me go to the first step, that 293 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 3: is to raise the atmospheric pressure so that you can 294 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 3: live without a spacesuit. And the side effect of this 295 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 3: will be too allow to have liqid water on the 296 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 3: surface more easily. 297 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: Can I just ask why does the low pressure require 298 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:45,360 Speaker 1: you to use a space suit? 299 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 3: Well, there are two reasons. The first one is the 300 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 3: fact that if you go to Mars right now, you 301 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 3: can't have liquid water at all because water will boil 302 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 3: at two three degrees celsius. That means that, for instance, 303 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 3: if you walk around you're a saliva will boil and 304 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 3: your blood will want to boil as well. At thirty 305 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 3: seven degrees you're well above the boiling point, so you're 306 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 3: like a pressure cooker. You don't want to do that. 307 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, not having your blood boil would be nice. The 308 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 1: second reason you need a pressure ized suit is that 309 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: at those low pressures there wouldn't be enough oxygen atoms 310 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: for your lungs to breathe, even if you wore a 311 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: pure oxygen mask. So clearly it would be nice to 312 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: raise the air pressure on Mars, But how would you 313 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: do that? 314 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 3: So the conclusion you need a space suit today, and 315 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: if you don't want a space suit, you need to 316 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 3: find a way to raise the pressure of the atmosphere 317 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 3: on Mars up to at least one hundred twenty millibars 318 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 3: typically okay, and that's a lot because right now on 319 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 3: Mars you have six midi bars of mostly CO two. 320 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 3: So the question is how can you raise the pressure 321 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 3: up to one hundred and twenty million mars or even higher? 322 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 2: Okay? 323 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 3: So you need some gas. And they had this idea 324 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 3: that especially in the polar regions, there should be frozen 325 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 3: COEO two ready to be released. So they say that, mmm, 326 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 3: we think that if we can heat the pole, we 327 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 3: can sublime in other world, transform the seal to ice 328 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:32,479 Speaker 3: into seal to gas sufficiently so that you increase the 329 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 3: amount of seal to gas. 330 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 1: Okay. So one idea to raise the pressure on Mars 331 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: is to take all the CO two ice we see 332 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: in Mars' north and south poles, melt it so it 333 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: turns to gas, and fill up the atmosphere with it. 334 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: Now scientists think that you wouldn't have to melt all 335 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: that coeo to ice. That'd be like melting all the 336 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:58,679 Speaker 1: ice in our north and south poles. You could do 337 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: it by triggering global warming. 338 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 3: Seal two, by the way, is a greenhouse gas, so 339 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 3: if you increase the amount of gas, there could be 340 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 3: a runaway greenhouse effect in other worlds. You heat a 341 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 3: little bit the polese, it really is a little bit 342 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,959 Speaker 3: of seal two s to hat the planets, and then 343 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,879 Speaker 3: you have a runaway process that sublimes all the CO 344 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,920 Speaker 3: two around and suddenly you have a very nice thick 345 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 3: atmosphere made of seal two. 346 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, what could go wrong? All right? So then how 347 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,879 Speaker 1: do you get this global warming started? And this is 348 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: where things start to get a little science fictioning. 349 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:44,959 Speaker 3: On this basis you may have heard. All we have 350 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 3: to do is to initialize this, for instance, by using 351 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 3: mirrors to hit the poles of mass, and that could 352 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 3: trigger this runaway climate change that will suddenly transform mass. 353 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: So one idea is to float mirrors in space around 354 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: Mars and point them so that they focus the light 355 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: from the Sun to the North or South poles, sort 356 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: of like a giant space magnifying glass. And from there 357 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 1: the ideas get even crazier. 358 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 3: Some people have suggested that you could spread the I 359 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 3: don't know, very dark material on the cap and sudden 360 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 3: need will absorb the sola heat and go into this process. 361 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 3: If you know Ellen Musks, it goes around with a 362 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 3: T shirt where it's threetened nuke mass. And this idea 363 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 3: is that, okay, let's release the coal two frozen at 364 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 3: the poles by putting nuclear bombs and it will sudden 365 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,880 Speaker 3: nut ones from MASSO. 366 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: That's right. One idea is to paint the North and 367 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: South poles black so they absorb more heat, and the 368 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:59,679 Speaker 1: other idea is to explode nuclear bombs to vaporize the 369 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: North and Sells poles. Like I said, what could go wrong? 370 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 1: But not all ideas are it this destructive. Another way 371 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 1: to cause global warming is to simply pollute the Martian atmosphere. 372 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 3: A very popular weight that has been studied was to 373 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 3: make factories and create super efficient greenhouse gas. With the 374 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 3: fluoro carbon. For instance, you can make artificial greenhouse gas 375 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 3: that will really create a strong greenhouse effect with only 376 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 3: a few part per millions. So factories will be enough 377 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: to create that if you find the material to make them. 378 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 3: We could invent aerial salts metallic carrosalts with the form 379 00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,160 Speaker 3: of a needle that will be especially optimized to also 380 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 3: create a very efficient greenhouse effect. 381 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: Okay, that's terraforming. Level one increasing the pressure so we 382 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: don't need spacesuits to walk around. Level two is having 383 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:04,960 Speaker 1: life grow on Mars. 384 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 3: Step two will be to have plants than life that 385 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,280 Speaker 3: could survive on Mars, to adapt mass in a way 386 00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 3: that you could imagine, have plants, algae, something living that 387 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 3: could survive and thrive on the surface. So some people 388 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 3: will find that exciting because you bring life to somewhere 389 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 3: else down on the Earth. Some people will be motivated 390 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 3: by the fact that plants will be a way to 391 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:39,880 Speaker 3: modify an atmosphere. For instance, photosynthesis could transform CO two 392 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 3: into oxygen, and this is a way to transform Mars 393 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 3: in something more suitable for humans. 394 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: That sounds great. Why doesn't that work? 395 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 3: The reason is that life is very good as growing everywhere, 396 00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 3: even if it's called one acidic whatever. But life requires 397 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 3: liquid water on the Earth is very simple. If there 398 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 3: is liquid water, you have life. Even if it's salty water, 399 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 3: if it's at minute ten degrees, if it's very hot 400 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 3: water at the bottom of the ocean at one hundreds. See, 401 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 3: it's okay. Life is happy. But you need liquid water. 402 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 3: If you are only ice, live stops. If you have 403 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 3: only water vapor, life stops. So the question is how 404 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 3: to get liquid water on Mars. 405 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: Okay, this gets a little bit technical, but basically, because 406 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: Mars has low pressure and low temperature, water only really 407 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: exists as solid ice or vapor, which is a problem because, 408 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: as doctor for j said, life needs liquid water. So 409 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 1: you don't only have to raise the pressure in the atmosphere, 410 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: you also have to raise the temperature. There is good news, though. 411 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 3: There have been studies that show that life simple. Life 412 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 3: like ALGs and even some plants can be happy with 413 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 3: the low pressure atmosphere. They don't need as high as 414 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: an atmospheric pressure than what I describe for human but 415 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 3: you need liquid water. And to have liquid water, the 416 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 3: absolute pressure must be about six point one meter bars. 417 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: Okay for level two You don't need to raise the 418 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: pressure as much as in level one, but you do 419 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: need to raise the temperature, which you might have already 420 00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: done if you trigger global warming to melt the CO 421 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: two in the North and South Poles. All right, when 422 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 1: we come back, we'll tackle the last level of terraforming Mars, 423 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 1: the boss level, which is making Mars just like Earth. 424 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: Don't go to another planet just yet. We'll be right back. 425 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome back. Okay, come to the boss level of terraforming Mars, 426 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:09,160 Speaker 1: the ultimate treatment in our planetary spa many making Mars 427 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,119 Speaker 1: just like Earth. And here the idea is not just 428 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: to make the pressure on Mars the same as on 429 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: Earth so you can walk around without a pressureized spacesuit, 430 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: or to make the temperature high enough to have liquid water. 431 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: This is going all the way. 432 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 3: Step NUMBA three is really science fiction, but we've been 433 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 3: there since the beginning. So it's to give mass a 434 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 3: breathable atmosphere for humans. That will be the real terrorformation 435 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 3: that you can dream of in science fiction movies. You 436 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 3: go around, you walk around, just like in Star Wars, 437 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 3: all these planets. 438 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 1: Imagine stepping out the door of your house on Mars. 439 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: You're not wearing a spacesuit. The temperature is a little nippy, 440 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: but not freezing. Above you, there are clouds blocking out 441 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,679 Speaker 1: some of the harmful radiation coming from the sun, and 442 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: you take a deep breath. The air is a little dry, 443 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: but it's not boiling your saliva. And best of all, 444 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: it has oxygen, sweet, refreshing ly sustaining oxygen. And you 445 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 1: go for a nice run among the plants that are 446 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 1: growing on Mars, which is super fun because, as I said, 447 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: the gravity in Mars is forty percent what it is 448 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: on Earth, so it's like jumping around a bouncy castle. 449 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: Whoo. 450 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: That is the final level of transforming Mars. So what 451 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: would it take to get us there? 452 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 3: So of course this means a lot of thing. First, 453 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 3: you need, as we discussed before, enough oxygen. 454 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 1: Are there any ideas of where we would get all 455 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 1: this oxygen? 456 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,919 Speaker 3: No oxygen? No, No oxygen is easy because oxygen you 457 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 3: can get it from water. You can process water. You 458 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 3: have lots of water on Mars, have to admit so 459 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 3: water will be busy. You take water, you can electrolyize water, 460 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 3: so you can create oxygen. But you cannot be pure 461 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:20,679 Speaker 3: oxygen because pure oxygen is dangerous. Everything tends to catch fire, 462 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 3: and it's very, very dangerous. It's a little toxic in 463 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 3: some way. If you breathe pure oxygen for some time, 464 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,680 Speaker 3: you can have some disease, the Row and Smith effects 465 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,120 Speaker 3: like that. It's inflammatory. In any case, you need to 466 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 3: dilute oxygen with another gas. Some on the Earth you 467 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 3: have nitrogen, but we don't have nitrogen on Mass. 468 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 1: So the main problem in making Mars air breathable is 469 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: not oxygen. You could make it on Mars from water. 470 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: The problem is everything else that air needs to be breathable. 471 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,840 Speaker 1: The air we breathe on Earth is twenty one percent oxygen. 472 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: The rest has to be something else, but it can't 473 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: be CO two, which is most of what's there on 474 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: Mars right now. 475 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 3: You need to decrease the amount of many gases that 476 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 3: are toxic, like carbon monoxide carbon dioxide below a certain 477 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 3: level otherwise you have problems. You need to have less 478 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 3: than ten million bars of CO two typical clear and 479 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 3: less than point one million bars of carbon monoxide otherwise 480 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:24,280 Speaker 3: you have big problems. 481 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: When you are a human, okay, then you might think, well, 482 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: when you made oxygen from water, you also made H 483 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: two or hydrogen gas, right, could you use that to 484 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: dilute the oxygen? 485 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 3: Well, no, because hydrogen and oxygen tends to react and 486 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 3: if you have sparkles, you explode, so you don't want 487 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 3: that either. 488 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 1: All right, This brings us to what seems to be 489 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: the main problem with any of these terraforming plants, which 490 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: is that Mars doesn't have all the things we need. 491 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: If you're trying to pressurize the atmosphere or cause global 492 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: warming with CO two, there isn't enough of it on 493 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: Mars right now. All the missions we've sent there, like 494 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter, the Mars Global Surveyor or Mars 495 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: Odyssey have all found that there's not enough CO two, 496 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 1: either frozen in the North and South poles or absorbed 497 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 1: on the ground. And if you're trying to fill the 498 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: atmosphere with breathable air, you need a lot of nitrogen 499 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,720 Speaker 1: or our gun, which Mars doesn't really have. And this 500 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,640 Speaker 1: is where we run into the definition of what it 501 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 1: means for something to be possible. Some people say at 502 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: this point, well, you could bring the CO two from 503 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: Venus or Earth like ship it using rockets, or you 504 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: could go out to the asteroid belt, round up about 505 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: ten million comets and somehow get them to crash land 506 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: on Mars because comments have water and carbon monoxide. But 507 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: the sheer scale of these solutions start to get a 508 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: little ridiculous, or at least really really expensive, or expensive 509 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: is beyond the problem. 510 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 3: In other words, you cannot do it with a technology 511 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 3: that we can imagine. 512 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:23,880 Speaker 2: Now. 513 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: You may be able to do it if you use 514 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 3: one ten million commets that you move and bring to Mars, 515 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 3: but that's beyond our technology, completely beyond. We have no 516 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: energy to do that. Maybe in five hundred years we've 517 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 3: discover an infinite source of energies, but right now it's impossible. 518 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 3: That's my opinion. But it's a debate. If my colleague 519 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 3: Edwin Kite was here, it will scream and say, oh, Francois, 520 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 3: you're dead wrong. I will show you that you can 521 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 3: do it. 522 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: And that's kind of where we're at. It's a debate. 523 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 1: Some people say it is technic possible to change Mars, 524 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: even if it takes an almost infinite amount of energy, 525 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: and we didn't even get to the ethical questions about 526 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: terraforming Mars. Some people argue that we shouldn't change Mars 527 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: that we should leave at pristine kind of like a 528 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: national park. And some say there could still be Martian 529 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: life there, maybe hidden under the surface, and that changing 530 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:29,440 Speaker 1: Mars would be a huge act of genocide. So whether 531 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: we could or should terraform Mars, the answer seems to be, 532 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: maybe we should clean up our own planet first, all right. 533 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: To end this episode, I asked both our experts if 534 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 1: they would go to Mars. 535 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 2: I tend to say no because if you go to Mars, 536 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,800 Speaker 2: you have to commit two years at least to go there, 537 00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 2: and I have a family and I don't want to 538 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: be away for like two years. I mean, it wouldn't 539 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,160 Speaker 2: be cool to go to Mars. If you could go 540 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 2: there for a month, would be cool just to go 541 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 2: and go to a clear different environments. 542 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 3: Me. I'm still a dreamer. I like astronauts, so I 543 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 3: will dream of going to Mass as an astronaut, but 544 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 3: to do expedition to Mars to explore and study Mass 545 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 3: and come back and leave Mass as clean as possible. 546 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 3: So I don't want to colonize Mars, and I don't 547 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 3: want to terraform Mars. 548 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: Sef nasa Issa said doctor Frage. We needed to get 549 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,000 Speaker 1: on this rocket tomorrow and go to Mars. You would go, Yes, 550 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 1: I will. 551 00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 3: I'm fond of such adventures. 552 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 1: All right, thanks for joining us, See you next time 553 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: you've been listening to Science Stuff. Production of iHeartRadio written 554 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: and produced by me or Hm, edited by Rose Seguda, 555 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: executive producer Jerry Rowland, an audio engineer and mixer Kasey 556 00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,400 Speaker 1: peprom The same recording of Mars is credited to NASA 557 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,600 Speaker 1: jeep Yale call Tech l A N L C N 558 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: E S C N R S and is E A supero. 559 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 1: Available on the NASA website at Science dot nasa dot gov, 560 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: and you can follow me on social media. Just search 561 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: for PhD comics and the name of your favorite platform. 562 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: Be sure to subscribe to Science Stuff on the Arheart 563 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,000 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts, 564 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: and please tell your friends we'll be back next Wednesday 565 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: with another episode.