Speaker 1: Keep on riding, would have says. We continue to broadcast
Speaker 1: the balance and defend the discourse from the hip hop
Speaker 1: Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Ramsey's Ja.
Speaker 2: He is Ramsey's Jaw. I am q Ward. You are
Speaker 2: hopefully still tuned in or really just now tuning into
Speaker 2: Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1: Either way, we appreciate you and the time that you're
Speaker 1: spending with us. And today's guest, who is a social
Speaker 1: media influencer that goes by the name of Asian Soap.
Speaker 1: She can be found online at the handle at Asian Underscore,
Speaker 1: self sph or at Mixed Present and she is one
Speaker 1: such individual who speaks on the mixed bipod multiracial experience
Speaker 1: in the United States. And we are having just a
Speaker 1: grand time talking with her about the state of the world.
Speaker 1: And you know, things have been better, but I think
Speaker 1: that there's a sense of calmness that comes with at
Speaker 1: least understanding the nature of the problem, and she certainly
Speaker 1: help us get to the bottom of a lot of
Speaker 1: the goings on. Before we continue our conversation, it is
Speaker 1: time to be aba, become a better ally. And today's Baba,
Speaker 1: we want you to visit stopaapihet dot org. It's been
Speaker 1: a while since we've mentioned this org, but they are
Speaker 1: one of our favorite orgs to support, and so I'll
Speaker 1: share from their website. In the face of inhumane mass deportation,
Speaker 1: raids on places like fruit farms and family homes, militarized
Speaker 1: force against peaceful protesters, and a sharp escalation of Trump's
Speaker 1: authoritarian political agend of millions of people, including many Asian
Speaker 1: Americans and Pacific Islanders, decided they had enough. From Los
Speaker 1: Angeles to San Francisco, and from Houston and Philadelphia, nationwide
Speaker 1: protests bought together people of all backgrounds shouldered to shoulder
Speaker 1: with Black, Indigenous, and Latino communities. They showed the world
Speaker 1: what solidarity looks like and proved to each other that
Speaker 1: they are stronger when they stand together.
Speaker 3: The numbers add up.
Speaker 1: According to the latest data from State of Hate Report,
Speaker 1: more than nine to ten aapi adults believe in the
Speaker 1: importance of cross racial solidarity, and more than eight and
Speaker 1: ten believe it is necessary to end racial discrimination. Trump
Speaker 1: is working over time to divide us against each other
Speaker 1: any failing on all accounts. This means people cannot give
Speaker 1: up now. We must continue to hold the line with
Speaker 1: other communities. Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and all others
Speaker 1: need to keep joining protests, calling lawmakers, organizing communities, and
Speaker 1: showing up for immigrant neighbors as would our closest friends,
Speaker 1: because the fight for justice isn't over and we need
Speaker 1: each other to continue pushing back against the abuse of
Speaker 1: power against our communities. Data and research, policy and advocacy,
Speaker 1: community care, and strategic communications are all ways that AAPI
Speaker 1: or stop AAPI dot org uses your investment to make
Speaker 1: an impact in the community. So do us a favor.
Speaker 1: Visit STOPAAPI hate dot org and make a donation, or
Speaker 1: if you can't do that, figure out some other way
Speaker 1: to get involved again stop AAPI hate dot org. Okay,
Speaker 1: so self, let's switch gears because you have been on
Speaker 1: the ground in Los Angeles. So I know that everyone
Speaker 1: knows about.
Speaker 4: The ice raids and the protests and so forth, but
Speaker 4: not everybody has been able to get a first hand
Speaker 4: account of what it was like to be on the ground.
Speaker 1: So one of the things that we learned in twenty twenty,
Speaker 1: because Q and I were both out protesting during the
Speaker 1: racial reckoning of twenty twenty, Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 3: Is that we could be out there with our children.
Speaker 3: We could be out there.
Speaker 1: Holding hands, singing songs, chanting Kendrick Lamar lyrics and all
Speaker 1: that sort of stuff, and we'd go home after the
Speaker 1: protest was over, after we'd reached the end and everyone
Speaker 1: had dispersed, we would see on the news that it
Speaker 1: was a riot or otherwise some form of some mischaracterization
Speaker 1: of the event that took place. Like we could see
Speaker 1: like I got an afro, So it's really easy to say, oh,
Speaker 1: look at me, I'm in the corner right there, So
Speaker 1: I was these are the protests we're ed.
Speaker 3: I ain't see your riot at all.
Speaker 1: Right, So again based in LA getting a chance to
Speaker 1: go out to these protests, you know, I want you
Speaker 1: to talk about what it's like on the ground, what
Speaker 1: you've seen out there, and give you a chance to
Speaker 1: really establish a factual narrative that is not secondhand for
Speaker 1: our listeners.
Speaker 5: I mean, well, first and foremost anyone who's not actually here,
Speaker 5: I always say they got the second last opinion because
Speaker 5: you don't actually know you know what I mean, And
Speaker 5: it's exactly what you said, Like it's beautiful community is
Speaker 5: people coming together you know, we're demanding justice and dignity
Speaker 5: and chain and trying to protect people in our community
Speaker 5: and obviously pushing back against you. I mean, this was
Speaker 5: part of the No Kings protests as well too, And
Speaker 5: all it is is being in community with one another
Speaker 5: almost always, like people are usually dancing, there's usually music,
Speaker 5: like I have been at a myriad of protests that
Speaker 5: are all different, and they usually involve a lot of joy,
Speaker 5: and you can be there with your kids. A lot
Speaker 5: of people were there with their kids, and oftentimes what
Speaker 5: happens this is not a new tactic. Calling protests a
Speaker 5: riot is just this classic tactic to delegitimize them. And
Speaker 5: I've organized a number of rallies and marches and vigils
Speaker 5: and all kinds of things, and what I see on
Speaker 5: the ground is intention and care and community. It's very organized,
Speaker 5: is very peaceful, but the media often zooms in on
Speaker 5: the bad actors, and law enforcement is known to provoke,
Speaker 5: can escalate as it always has. I mean, when you're
Speaker 5: rooted in being slave catchers, it's rotten to the core
Speaker 5: rights I'm just saying. And then that also it's known
Speaker 5: historically that not only has law enforcement and government agencies
Speaker 5: infiltrated a lot of these movements, but also the far
Speaker 5: right to create chaos and to shift the narrative. It's
Speaker 5: not new. It happened with the Black Panthers, it happened
Speaker 5: with labor re unions, happened in Selma, happened in all
Speaker 5: of these major movements. And these far right agitators come
Speaker 5: in and infiltrate to cause chaos, and it gives the
Speaker 5: cops a reason to justify a crackdown. It gives you know,
Speaker 5: the National Guard or whoever's getting called in a reason
Speaker 5: to have violence. And they don't reflect the heart of
Speaker 5: the movement when this happens, and people it's just people
Speaker 5: demanding dignity and justice and change, like I said. And
Speaker 5: the media does such a great job at zooming in
Speaker 5: on the wrong thing and talking about the wrong thing
Speaker 5: all the time, and that's exactly what we're seeing. And
Speaker 5: so people get this narrative that spoon fed to them,
Speaker 5: and it shows how easily they fall for propaganda. And
Speaker 5: that's how I feel about that.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a really interesting thing happening.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: We talk about the muzzle velocity with which the president
Speaker 2: has disrupted and really terrorized marginalized groups in this country
Speaker 2: since he was re elected. And what I know about
Speaker 2: our president, what I think a lot of people know
Speaker 2: but some won't admit, is that he's not that bright,
Speaker 2: he's not that intelligent, he's not that structured, he's not
Speaker 2: that he didn't have his ducks in a row in
Speaker 2: that way. So you'd imagine that there had to be
Speaker 2: some pre planned, you know, maybe nine hundred million page
Speaker 2: document that may have already been written, so that by
Speaker 2: the time he became president, maybe all the steps that
Speaker 2: he needed to take would already be laid out, and
Speaker 2: he'd be able to very very efficiently execute something like
Speaker 2: what he's doing now. Now, if only any of us
Speaker 2: could have saw something like that coming before he got
Speaker 2: elected and warned everybody about it, so that we could
Speaker 2: have prepared ourselves and maybe made some different decisions. But
Speaker 2: we didn't have that insight. We weren't able to warn people,
Speaker 2: and we weren't able to let people know what was coming.
Speaker 2: So now it's like a oiled machine. And even things
Speaker 2: that are already diabolical in nature, you dig one layer
Speaker 2: lead one layer deeper, or you flip through a couple
Speaker 2: hundred more pages, and you realize that it's even more
Speaker 2: nefarious than you thought. So what we see and those
Speaker 2: of us who are frustrated, angered, hurt, terrified at the
Speaker 2: possibility of what might happen to us and our families
Speaker 2: with these ice raids, and with the way that immigrants
Speaker 2: and just people of color in general are being treated.
Speaker 2: They're not just singling out immigrants, They're using immigrants as
Speaker 2: an excuse to really snatch up whoever they want, citizens
Speaker 2: and non citizens alike. That by itself seems cruel enough,
Speaker 2: but you start flipping through these pages and you realize
Speaker 2: that there are people who are involved in a far
Speaker 2: more nefarious and capitalistic way that might benefit in ways
Speaker 2: you never imagined from being able to, you know, perhaps
Speaker 2: snatch people off the streets and turn them into free labor.
Speaker 2: I was wondering if you may have heard anything about
Speaker 2: something like that possibly going on in our country, as
Speaker 2: ice and people dressed as ice just our cart blunche
Speaker 2: to snatch people off the street, out their cars, and
Speaker 2: out of their homes.
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean just talking about the ice detention
Speaker 5: centers themselves, which, by the way, a lot of these
Speaker 5: popped up so fast. I mean, we can't like give
Speaker 5: people housing. But somehow we can create these centers like
Speaker 5: so quick. But they's just a humanitarian crisis. And they're
Speaker 5: detained without due process, which is unconstitutional. In the constitution,
Speaker 5: you don't have to be a citizen to get certain rights,
Speaker 5: and a lot of people just don't know enough about
Speaker 5: the constitution and I think that's a huge problem. But
Speaker 5: they're detained without due process. The conditions are horrid. It's
Speaker 5: a dollar a day, you know, for labor, five dollars
Speaker 5: per phone call. I mean, we see that. I mean,
Speaker 5: it's just basically like the prison system. Essentially, it's minimal
Speaker 5: medical care. You know. Some people were talking about they
Speaker 5: haven't been fed. Some people were talking about they were
Speaker 5: snatched up and held in abasement and not fed. Families
Speaker 5: didn't know where they were. And these centers are run
Speaker 5: very much by for profit companies that with government contracts
Speaker 5: that require them to stay full. There's quotas, and people's
Speaker 5: freedom is directly tied to a business model, much like
Speaker 5: the prison system.
Speaker 3: Same way.
Speaker 5: So if someone has proven to be wrongfully detained, they've
Speaker 5: still endured a system designed to dehumanize them. And it's
Speaker 5: not just about immigration policy. It's incarceration for profit, which
Speaker 5: is very much a legacy of the United States. But yeah,
Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know what even else to say, Like,
Speaker 5: I mean, there's not enough words in the language, in
Speaker 5: the English language to talk about how despicable I think
Speaker 5: all of this is.
Speaker 1: You know, this is why I think the protests are
Speaker 1: so necessary and why I think, you know, conversations like
Speaker 1: these are necessary.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 1: You know there, you know, there's one half of the
Speaker 1: country that is controlling all the levers of government, and
Speaker 1: it's up to the rest of us to ensure that
Speaker 1: this doesn't become the norm for this country. Those of
Speaker 1: us that still believe in the promise of this country,
Speaker 1: those of us who are born here or not, that
Speaker 1: have a vested interest in the success of this country,
Speaker 1: it's up to us to.
Speaker 3: Protest. That's what we that's what we're able to do.
Speaker 1: And for those of us that feel that we're under
Speaker 1: a hostile government, it's still, for the most part, technically
Speaker 1: legal for us to do that. I want to circle
Speaker 1: back though, because you mentioned something that I think a
Speaker 1: lot of people maybe don't realize. First, I'm going to
Speaker 1: connect a couple dots. You said something about, you know, tactics,
Speaker 1: right wing tactics that they'll use to change narratives, co
Speaker 1: op narratives, you know, rebrand things, et cetera. And to
Speaker 1: their credit, they're very good at that. You mentioned, you know,
Speaker 1: people on the right fil trading movements, you know, protests, etc.
Speaker 1: Police infil trading movements. And this is something that I
Speaker 1: remember too. I was in like the discord chats, and
Speaker 1: like I got into the deep end real early because
Speaker 1: I was on the radio. So they were like, hey, look,
Speaker 1: we could trust you, so look out for these people.
Speaker 1: They usually wear these type of shoes and blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: and you could see them out there and they would
Speaker 1: whisper in our ear. Hey, that guy is probably one
Speaker 1: of them. So anyway, I have not yet come across
Speaker 1: the same type of kind of underhanded strategies used by
Speaker 1: folks on the left, folks who are more progressive in
Speaker 1: terms of their politics. I don't know if there were
Speaker 1: any leftists on January sixth at that protest. They were
Speaker 1: also trying to set it off and trying to you know,
Speaker 1: create friction unnecessarily. I think that those were all bona
Speaker 1: fide right wingers doing exactly what their boss told him
Speaker 1: to do, and indeed, in any movement, I haven't really
Speaker 1: seen that, but I will say that the opposite. You know,
Speaker 1: I was at a No King's protest in Phoenix and
Speaker 1: there was a gentleman that came out. He was wearing
Speaker 1: a gentleman loosely, but he came out and he was
Speaker 1: wearing a some sort of I don't know what this
Speaker 1: shirt said, I forget, but it had some sort of
Speaker 1: message on the shirt that implied that he was a
Speaker 1: right winger. But you wouldn't know because you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of American flags out there, and indeed I
Speaker 1: love that effort for folks to reclaim the American flag
Speaker 1: for all of us, not just for the right wing.
Speaker 3: But this guy's out there.
Speaker 1: He's got a full face mask, like full ski mask on,
Speaker 1: which again there are some people that that's how they
Speaker 1: move nowadays, right, But he gets out there and he
Speaker 1: like starts picking a fight with somebody. Was super weird.
Speaker 1: And you know, of course there's the shouting, the back
Speaker 1: and forth. But he's there all alone at the No
Speaker 1: Kings protest, so everybody there is on one side of
Speaker 1: this topic. He's out there on his own starting a
Speaker 1: fight that that turns into like a fistfight, and you know,
Speaker 1: the guy ends up losing that fight. Indeed, there were
Speaker 1: other people that jumped in to try to break the
Speaker 1: fight up, but this was a bigger guy, so he
Speaker 1: had a couple of people on him just to tone
Speaker 1: him down. He would say he got jumped, but you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what he expected to come out there,
Speaker 1: and it'd be like seven thousand people versus him. You know.
Speaker 1: But anyway, once he gets up, after you know, his defeat,
Speaker 1: he pulls out a gun. Everybody starts running okay, and
Speaker 1: you know, people start telling the police, oh, he's got
Speaker 1: a gun. He's got a gun. Cop jumps out, chopper
Speaker 1: on deck, runs into the crowd, grabs him, arrests him.
Speaker 3: Brings him to the car. Now I saw this happen.
Speaker 3: I got a video of it.
Speaker 1: And people in the comments section we're trying to say, oh,
Speaker 1: y'all jumped in when he was out there, you know,
Speaker 1: the political opposition, They were saying all that type of stuff.
Speaker 1: But I suspect that he was one such infiltrator or
Speaker 1: a counter protester that didn't come out there to hold
Speaker 1: a sign and you know, be accounted among the numbers.
Speaker 1: He came out there to actually start friction. Now, because
Speaker 1: I know that this has happened with individuals. Indeed, that's
Speaker 1: the most recent example I've seen, but I've seen it
Speaker 1: happen with police.
Speaker 3: I've seen police throw rocks, you know, like all kinds
Speaker 3: of stuff.
Speaker 1: And I know that there's this narrative on the right
Speaker 1: that you know, there's LA is this lawless land full
Speaker 1: of agitators and rioters and whatnot. I guess what would
Speaker 1: you if you could talk to a person who consumes
Speaker 1: far right content, what would you say to them if
Speaker 1: they were legitimately curious about the nature of not just
Speaker 1: the protests, the recent protest, but protest from more progressive
Speaker 1: groups in general. What would you say to a person
Speaker 1: be willing to listen but has that viewpoint.
Speaker 5: Well, I usually am like, do you want like a
Speaker 5: short answer or a long answer? A longer answer would
Speaker 5: include more historical facts. But for the most part, what
Speaker 5: I would tell somebody is, don't believe what you see
Speaker 5: in a ten second clip. You know, come to the protests,
Speaker 5: see the organized Like when I say community people are
Speaker 5: handing out water, they're handing out food, they're taking care
Speaker 5: of each other there. When you organize, often you have
Speaker 5: to coordinate, like people to keep you safe and medics,
Speaker 5: and there's a lot of translation being done for elders
Speaker 5: or people who may not speak English. It's protecting each other.
Speaker 5: And you see the love and the acknowledgement land acknowledgments. Yeah,
Speaker 5: like you see the love and the rage that drives
Speaker 5: people to be in the streets. Not for destruction, but
Speaker 5: it's for dignity. And you know, another thing to do
Speaker 5: is to ask why don't just take things at face value?
Speaker 5: Ask why? And ask who is benefiting from you believing
Speaker 5: this narrative about it? You know, the real issues are
Speaker 5: not broken windows, They're not any sort.
Speaker 3: Of property on fire.
Speaker 5: Yeah, the broken system is the issue. The system that
Speaker 5: made the protest necessary is the issue.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very good place.
Speaker 5: And I think a lot of people just again, they
Speaker 5: take a lot of things at face value and are
Speaker 5: very much not interested in doing their own research and
Speaker 5: critically thinking, which is really upsetting because you miss out
Speaker 5: on the opportunity to really grow as a person and
Speaker 5: to really expand your worldview.
Speaker 3: All right, well, let's shift gears here.
Speaker 1: Do us a favor, and because there's there's a lot
Speaker 1: of conversations in different like racial groups, and you're one
Speaker 1: such person that might be able to speak to the
Speaker 1: experiences or the conversations being had in one such group,
Speaker 1: discuss what the implications are for Asian Americans to join
Speaker 1: this movement or what the consequences could be if they don't.
Speaker 5: Yeah, honestly, not just for Asian Americans, for all people
Speaker 5: who are in a marginalized identity group. At the end
Speaker 5: of the day, all of this is rooted in racism.
Speaker 5: It all goes back to colonization, it all goes back
Speaker 5: to slavery, it all goes back. It's all motivated by
Speaker 5: the same things. And you know, Asian Americans actually have
Speaker 5: a very long, powerful history of solidarity with other marginalized identities. Yes,
Speaker 5: I know, yeah, from the Third World Liberation Front and
Speaker 5: the Black Student Union at.
Speaker 3: San Francis very good, the Udi.
Speaker 5: Kochiyama standing beside Malcolm ed you know, Grace Lee Boggs
Speaker 5: and her husband. But too often that history has been
Speaker 5: hidden and instead we're fed this myth of the model
Speaker 5: minority to be a wedge between us and other communities
Speaker 5: of color. And a lot of it, at the end
Speaker 5: of the day, is rooted in anti blackness, and anyone
Speaker 5: who doesn't understand that the only reason we have the
Speaker 5: ability to be citizens and to vote and to have
Speaker 5: the rights that we have is because of black people
Speaker 5: just doesn't know enough about our history. And if we're
Speaker 5: not asking the question of why and who does this
Speaker 5: benefit for us? To not be aware of this stuff again,
Speaker 5: you you can be so easily swayed and conditioned into
Speaker 5: believing things that are not rooted in reality, and then
Speaker 5: you end up voting against your best interests. Like those
Speaker 5: Asians who voted against affirmative action and did that whole lawsuit.
Speaker 5: They just took the word of the white man, and
Speaker 5: that's we got to stop taking else But anyway, joining
Speaker 5: the movement isn't just about you know, being transactional or
Speaker 5: showing up for ourselves. It's about showing up for others.
Speaker 5: It's about reclaiming our own history and our own dignity
Speaker 5: and our own collective liberation. Because it's really true that
Speaker 5: saying unless we're all free, no one's free. And if
Speaker 5: we stay silent, if we at the end of the day,
Speaker 5: risk being used as pawns and systems that were not
Speaker 5: built or designed for us at all, they are not
Speaker 5: built or designed to protect us. And unity at the
Speaker 5: end of the day is power and we need each
Speaker 5: other now more than ever. And if you're not going
Speaker 5: to show up now, don't ask people to show up
Speaker 5: when it's you that's on the chopping block.
Speaker 3: Just can't be like that.
Speaker 1: Well, those are some powerful words and then words that
Speaker 1: we all can use, not just one community, but all
Speaker 1: of us can use. So unfortunately we're out of time.
Speaker 1: I'd love to keep talking to you, so we're gonna
Speaker 1: have to have you back on the show. But I
Speaker 1: appreciate the time that you spent.
Speaker 3: With us today.
Speaker 1: Do us a favorite before you jet shout out all
Speaker 1: your social media how folks can tap in with you
Speaker 1: and keep up with all the content that you're putting out.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you go find me at Asian sof Asian Underscore,
Speaker 5: s oph on TikTok and Instagram. I actually do prefer
Speaker 5: TikTok more. And then you can also find me at
Speaker 5: Mixed to Present on Instagram as well too.
Speaker 1: Okay, and don't forget you can follow us on all
Speaker 1: platforms at Civic Cipher. You can check me out. I
Speaker 1: am Rams's job on platforms.
Speaker 2: I am Qward on all social media as.
Speaker 3: Well, and do us a favorite.
Speaker 1: Hit the website Civiccipher dot com and you can submit
Speaker 1: any questions topics you want us to cover, make a donation,
Speaker 1: download any previous episodes, and anything else that you need
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Speaker 1: all right,