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Speaker 1: And now Move the Sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky Brooks.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Move the Sticks, presented by New Era Bucky.

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Speaker 1: We are going to continue on with our Edge Prototype

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Speaker 1: podcast today, the Prototype series. It's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: fun and this one I think is our best one. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I think it is the best one, and we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it. There are a couple of positions that we

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Speaker 1: call the marquee positions and the team building process. The

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Speaker 1: edge rusher is essential. You talked about outside the quarterback.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the most important position is the edge rusher. Can

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Speaker 1: you affect the quarterback in the way that he plays

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Speaker 1: and so being able to really do a deep dive

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Speaker 1: into edge rushers. What separates some uh the great ones

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Speaker 1: from the others? How it how you kind of plan

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Speaker 1: it in place to become a dominant edge rusher. How

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Speaker 1: you set it up where you make the splash plays

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Speaker 1: and key moments. I can't wait to talk to the

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Speaker 1: guys that we have on tap. McCoy in trouble and

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Speaker 1: he sacked j J. What brings Himp down will be

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Speaker 1: hit and down he goes in the back field, there's

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Speaker 1: Fawn Miller. He's gonna get hit he's gonna get sacked.

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Speaker 1: That Jack's got him Saxonville rear and his head. Calias

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Speaker 1: Campbell got it. Darnald with a pocket collapsing. Here's a

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Speaker 1: sack ripped down Jet Debian Clowney gets home to bring

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Speaker 1: down Darnald. Snap back for man rush Big pushed by Mac.

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Speaker 1: He got the Raptors head down. He goes two and

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Speaker 1: a half sacks for the Mac attack. We've got some

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Speaker 1: great guests talking about Willie McGinnis, UH future Hall of

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Speaker 1: famer in our opinion, to Marcus ware is gonna be

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Speaker 1: a Hall of Famer. And we've got the man who

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Speaker 1: runs a Senior Bowl, longtime NFL personnel man, Jim Naggy,

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Speaker 1: on to talk about these edge rushers. Buck. I feel

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Speaker 1: like a lot of times in sports, it's it's this

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Speaker 1: popular uh way of thinking right now, people want to

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Speaker 1: know your why, like why why are you doing what

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Speaker 1: you're doing? So why don't you explain to the folks

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Speaker 1: why we're doing this prototype series, because I think this

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Speaker 1: is a great opportunity for us to educate the listeners

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Speaker 1: on what we're looking for at specific positions. A lot

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Speaker 1: of times when when people throw out list in rankings,

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Speaker 1: of who's the best ed Russia? And why is that

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Speaker 1: guy when I just look at the sack line and

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Speaker 1: you know he may not have the number of sacks

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Speaker 1: of the number one guy, But it's about the traits.

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Speaker 1: It's about the guys that can consistently get it done.

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Speaker 1: And I'll be honest with you, I'm a little biased because, uh,

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Speaker 1: in my time is not only a player a scout.

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Speaker 1: I had a chance to play with some great ones,

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Speaker 1: Like when when you think about having to roll into

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Speaker 1: the league, Bruce Smith, who's whole pretty fait, Reggie White

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Speaker 1: who's another Hall of fame, not a bad not a

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Speaker 1: bad one thing in Kansas City, Derek Thomas, another Hall

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Speaker 1: of famer, and then being able to go to Carolina

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Speaker 1: and we drafted the kid named Julius Peppers who has

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Speaker 1: also been a dominant player. So when you've been around

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Speaker 1: those kind of guys and you see them in practice

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Speaker 1: and see them in big games and big moments, take

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Speaker 1: it over. The ed rusher position is near and dear

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Speaker 1: to my heart, I love it. You've been around some

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Speaker 1: great ones and we're gonna chance to to discuss what

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Speaker 1: we look for in that position. Keep in mind, uh,

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Speaker 1: if you want to catch up, and you're missing the series.

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Speaker 1: You haven't caught all the episodes. The offense is in

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Speaker 1: the book. It's all out there for you can check

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Speaker 1: it out. Quarterback, running back, receiver, tighten, offensive line. We've

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Speaker 1: got episodes on each of those positions, which I think

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Speaker 1: the folks at home will enjoy. But again, you she

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Speaker 1: said it, quarterback number one, ed rusher number two. I

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Speaker 1: think you talked to most evaluats around the league. They

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Speaker 1: will agree with that priority. And when you're looking at

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Speaker 1: this position specifically one of the non negotiables, what do

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Speaker 1: you have to have? The first thing for me is

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Speaker 1: get off. I'm looking for a guy that can come

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Speaker 1: off the snap like a hurricane like catlike quickness, first

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Speaker 1: step quickness, being able to put immediate pressure on the

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Speaker 1: offensive tackle. To me, that is a censer. I think

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Speaker 1: you have to have that in your playbook to be

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Speaker 1: able to be a dominant player. Guy that can get

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Speaker 1: you fifteen sixteen seventeen sacks a year. I think the

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Speaker 1: next thing, I think you have to have outstanding hands

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Speaker 1: because so much of being able to get to the

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Speaker 1: quarterback is about winning the hand to hand combat battle.

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Speaker 1: Do you have an array of moves, where you can

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Speaker 1: sequence your moves, where you can get off if you

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Speaker 1: can't win with the fastball, meeting your speed and quickness.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, I think you've gotta have a NonStop motor.

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Speaker 1: So much of getting the quarterback down is about the

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Speaker 1: effort and energy that you expand can you get well first, second, third,

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Speaker 1: effort when it doesn't go right away? Are you relentless

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Speaker 1: in your approach? Those guys that are relentless attack warriors,

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Speaker 1: those are the ones that are hard to block over

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Speaker 1: the course of the game. I'm with you. Those are

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Speaker 1: the three I would list. The only thing I would

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Speaker 1: say is I might switch the order around a little

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Speaker 1: bit and just say, if I'm looking at a college

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Speaker 1: player and you're evaluating him, get off his number one

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Speaker 1: from me. That's where we start. And that's all caps

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Speaker 1: to me. If you're if you're getting ready to watch

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Speaker 1: a player that's rushing the passer right down, get off

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Speaker 1: and all caps on your paper before you turn on

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Speaker 1: the tape, because you want to constantly be thinking about that.

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Speaker 1: And then I would write finish in all caps right

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Speaker 1: underneath it. And if I've got somebody with great get

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Speaker 1: off and great finish, Hey, we can work with you

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Speaker 1: on the hands. We can get we can get better,

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Speaker 1: we can you can teach and you can learn. I

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Speaker 1: think you've got to get off, or you don't. I

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Speaker 1: think you're innately a finisher, or you're not to me.

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Speaker 1: Those are the things I like to start with, and

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Speaker 1: then we can work on the rest. Yeah. Absolutely, you

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Speaker 1: have to finish because there's something to be said for

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Speaker 1: we're being able to get the guy down. There are

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Speaker 1: a lot of guys who are that's a skill. Yes,

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Speaker 1: near misses. Oh I could have got there, I touched him,

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Speaker 1: but I don't. Bringing the quarterback down is a skill,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a trait, it's essential. The other thing that

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Speaker 1: I would throw in there some way is disruption, meaning

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Speaker 1: can they force fumbos? Can they knock the ball the way?

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Speaker 1: Do they have an instinct that creates the turners? Because

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Speaker 1: we know this game is decided by turnovers. You win

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Speaker 1: the turnover battle by plus one, you win sixty of

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Speaker 1: the games. So a defensive player and the edge Russia

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Speaker 1: that can create a Tomahawks chop, a force fumbo, a turnover,

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Speaker 1: those guys kind of separate themselves from the other guys.

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Speaker 1: And I also think as with with quarterbacks when you're

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Speaker 1: watching um tape. We talked about it in the Quarterback episode.

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Speaker 1: Those key moments, those clutch moments, I think was Kurt

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Speaker 1: Warner even said, I want to see how you perform

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Speaker 1: when everything's on the line on a big stage, in

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Speaker 1: a big game. I look at pass Rusch is the

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Speaker 1: same way. Give me, give me a close game on

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Speaker 1: the fourth quarter, give me third down and eight, and

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Speaker 1: you gotta make something happen. That to me is what

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Speaker 1: separates the good from the great. We talk about it,

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Speaker 1: I need to close it well. Marioo rifire to come in,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to shed the game down when we're up.

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Speaker 1: The reason we're paying d Rush is twenty million dollars

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Speaker 1: is for the fourth quarter, when the game is on

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Speaker 1: the line, the key moment third and long. Everyone in

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Speaker 1: the stadium knows is the past. Everyone knows that you're

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Speaker 1: the guy. I still need you to be the guy

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Speaker 1: that can get there and get it done. And that

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Speaker 1: is the difference between what I think are the premier

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Speaker 1: guys and the guys that are guys that are kind

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Speaker 1: of flashes in the pen, no doubt. And there's also

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Speaker 1: the imagery I sometimes like to think of the imagery

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Speaker 1: with quarterbacks and saying, okay, if if you can't imagine

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Speaker 1: in your head the confetti falling on their head at

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl win in the title, then you got

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Speaker 1: the wrong quarterback. And to me, when I look at

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Speaker 1: edge rushers, if you can get one on one late

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Speaker 1: in the game and the opposing offensive coordinator is not

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Speaker 1: sweating bullets, then you have the wrong guy as a

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Speaker 1: premier edge rusher. I think it's as simple as this.

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Speaker 1: When we are looking at the tape and you're looking

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Speaker 1: at a guy being in college or be it in

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Speaker 1: the pros, do you feel like you have to put

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Speaker 1: a little extra attention in his way? Do we need

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Speaker 1: to slide of protection to his side because he can

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Speaker 1: take the game over by himself. And I think when

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Speaker 1: we look at the premier here guys in our league,

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Speaker 1: they have shown you time after time they can take

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Speaker 1: over the game. Aaron Donald's he's an insight player, never

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Speaker 1: really edge Russia, but a dominant pass rusher. Von Miller,

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Speaker 1: We've seen J. J. Watt, We've seen others. Those guys

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Speaker 1: have shown you if you leave me one on one,

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Speaker 1: I can take over the game. And that's what I'm

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Speaker 1: looking for. I want a guy that can absolutely take

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Speaker 1: over the game and do it. Bump Sell, that's what

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Speaker 1: we're looking for. Let's get to these conversations. I think

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Speaker 1: the folks can enjoy these. Uh coming up again to

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Speaker 1: Marcus Ware and Jim Naggy. Excellent conversations. But starting things off,

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Speaker 1: it's our colleague here at NFL Media, Willie McGuinness. A

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Speaker 1: dominant pass rusher, especially when the games matter. You talk

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Speaker 1: about being able to make it happen when it counts.

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Speaker 1: Nobody has done it better than our first guest, Willie McGinnis.

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Speaker 1: Forty nine seconds remaining in the game, Coulch with no

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Speaker 1: chime outs remaining. So they're a third and eight at

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Speaker 1: the Patriot seventeen Batch lead by three points. Madding out

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Speaker 1: of a shotgun takes the snap. Here's the rush by

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Speaker 1: Winnie Mcginnisty Saxon back up the thirty yard alright block. Look,

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Speaker 1: if we're gonna talk about edge rushers and focus on

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Speaker 1: the position, I mean, who's better to talk to than

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Speaker 1: our next guest here with Willie mac William mcguinnis Willie

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Speaker 1: the number eighty six, number eighty six me and anything

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Speaker 1: to you sacks. I think that's it. Yeah, that's it.

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Speaker 1: Just eighty six. No big deal. Just eighty six sacks

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Speaker 1: your career. No big deal. I no, man, but you know, well,

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Speaker 1: we'll get into it. But yeah, the eighty six is

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Speaker 1: it's a good number. It's a good number. It's the

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Speaker 1: postseason number that everyone is excitive because you don't combine

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Speaker 1: on it. But my role was a little bit different

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Speaker 1: as a as an edge rusher, slash outside linebacker, slash

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Speaker 1: guy who was in coverage. So it was a little

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Speaker 1: different from me. Well, I think about it being different

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Speaker 1: when you when you look at today's game and you

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Speaker 1: look at the pass rushers, what are some of the

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Speaker 1: core traits that you look for when elite pass us. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think when you talk about lean, a guy being

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Speaker 1: a well, let's back up hands. Okay, you talk about

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Speaker 1: a guy, can he use his hands? Can you separate?

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Speaker 1: Offensive lineman? They want to take away the space. It's

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Speaker 1: our job to create space so they can't grab us

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Speaker 1: and put there and have them put their hands on

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Speaker 1: us and slow us down. So when I whenever I

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Speaker 1: talk to young pass rushers, I always tell them, use

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Speaker 1: your hands, create separation. Offensive linemen are like puppet. When

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Speaker 1: you give them something, they shoot. You know, you give

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Speaker 1: them a little bit of something, they shoot. They're taught

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Speaker 1: to shoot their hands. So you've got to be able

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Speaker 1: to use your hands really well, not give your whole

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Speaker 1: frame half a man. We always talk about getting half

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Speaker 1: a man, giving them as least as possible. When you're

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Speaker 1: pass rushing the other thing, I think, great, it's really

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Speaker 1: good when you watch really really good pass rusher is

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Speaker 1: there get off? I think von Miller probably is the

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Speaker 1: best in the game. He reminds me of the late

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Speaker 1: great Derek Thomas when you talk about get off, getting

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Speaker 1: off the ball, um that first step, whenever you do drills,

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Speaker 1: working on that first step to game ground, and then

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Speaker 1: um having moves to set up other moves. You can't

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Speaker 1: be one dimensional. I think you've got to give an

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Speaker 1: offensive lineman, a good offensive lineman, a lot of different moves,

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Speaker 1: uh to win and keep him mixed up and off balance.

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Speaker 1: What is it all? What does it all build off?

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Speaker 1: Of the Willie? We're kind of going through a lot

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Speaker 1: of these terms and um, you know I wrote down

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Speaker 1: get off, hands, power, bend, having a counter. But if

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Speaker 1: you're gonna, if you're if you're building a pass rusher,

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Speaker 1: what is the first thing you'd want to start with.

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Speaker 1: I would say getting off the ball, speed and explosion,

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Speaker 1: you know, being able to being able to look and

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Speaker 1: get and get off the ball. It really doesn't matter

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Speaker 1: if you can't get off the ball and that first

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Speaker 1: step and you don't have that explosiveness. Uh, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: really matter, um, unless you're playing inside. Now, as you

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Speaker 1: move further to the edge, further to that nine technique,

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Speaker 1: you've gotta be able to run and get off that ball.

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Speaker 1: And then I think hands. I think hands is the best,

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Speaker 1: the best thing over especially long arm guys, guys that

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Speaker 1: have really long arms like myself, Um Hunter, you watch him,

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Speaker 1: the Dairy and Smith. There are a lot of players

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Speaker 1: are really long arms. You can use that hand two

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Speaker 1: separate yourself. And you know when I when I came

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Speaker 1: into the league, Bruce Armstrong was All Pro left tackle

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Speaker 1: with the New England Patriots. And when we're doing one

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Speaker 1: on ones in practice, he used to kick my all

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Speaker 1: the time. He used to beat my butt and I

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Speaker 1: would and I would tell him, Bruce, like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing? I'm not paying attention to He's like, you

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Speaker 1: gotta figure it. Out, rook, you gotta figure it out.

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Speaker 1: I started watching tape. I slowed down the tape. It

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Speaker 1: was his inside hand. It wasn't the outside hand that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people focus on. It was his inside hand.

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Speaker 1: He was getting it on my hip and pushing me out,

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Speaker 1: and he was punching me with it, pulling it back,

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Speaker 1: and then he would grab me with the outside hand.

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Speaker 1: So I went back and I was like, I got it, now,

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Speaker 1: see what it is. I didn't tell him, so I

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Speaker 1: stuck my hand inside, which put his hand behind me.

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Speaker 1: I got to half a man, and now all I

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Speaker 1: had to do was beat one hand. And when I

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Speaker 1: started beating him, he started laughing. He's like, you figured

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Speaker 1: it out. It's my inside punch that you that that

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Speaker 1: you couldn't stop. So I think hands are very very important.

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Speaker 1: Offensive linement want to grab you and they want to

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Speaker 1: wrap you up. They want to suffocate you. They don't

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Speaker 1: want you to have that space. They don't want you running.

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Speaker 1: They want you running right in the middle of them.

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Speaker 1: Most of the most offensive tackles are bigger than defensive

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Speaker 1: ends and outside linebackers, so they're gonna win that power

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Speaker 1: battle the majority of the times. But when you have

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Speaker 1: speed when you have great hands, Now they're light, Now

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Speaker 1: they're on their feet, and now they're thinking and they're dancing.

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Speaker 1: Then that's when you mix in the other stuff like

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Speaker 1: the speed, the power, like the shaking bacon go inside.

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Speaker 1: Then you give them a fake inside and you pop

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Speaker 1: back outside. You just start doing everything to him to

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Speaker 1: keep them off balance. So when you when you think

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Speaker 1: about the way guys progress going from college to the pros,

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Speaker 1: how much of that stuff can be picked up when

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Speaker 1: you are pro. How much of it is natural, how

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Speaker 1: much of it's something that you can learn from a

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Speaker 1: good coach kind of showing you how to sequence your moves.

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Speaker 1: I think there's certain guys that have the natural ability

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Speaker 1: to pass rush. When you look at a lot of guys, now,

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Speaker 1: they're just great athletes, right, They're fast, they're great athletes.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of these coaches don't develop them at

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Speaker 1: a young age. They put him at the edge and

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Speaker 1: they say just run around the tackle. And once you

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Speaker 1: start going against in college or in the pros, really

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Speaker 1: good tackles, whether right or left tackles, you realize just

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Speaker 1: that Ben in that lean and that rip move don't

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Speaker 1: work all the time. They figure that out. They figure

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Speaker 1: that stuff out. So now you gotta add different moves

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Speaker 1: and things to your repertoire. Now you gotta figure out, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if I beat him around the edge, what is he

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Speaker 1: gonna do. He's gonna kick hard, He's gonna get out

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Speaker 1: there because the coach is gonna say, hey, you gotta

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Speaker 1: get out there. You gotta get your hands on him.

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Speaker 1: You know that. So then you get off the ball

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Speaker 1: as fast as you can't want to step boom, and

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Speaker 1: that third step you're inside. You're beating him inside because

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Speaker 1: he's gonna overset you. So now the coach is gonna

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Speaker 1: get on them. Hey, you can't give up the inside.

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Speaker 1: That's the fastest path to the quarterback. Don't be so aggressive.

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Speaker 1: So now you got him thinking. Now you got him light.

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Speaker 1: Now he's not jumping out. Now he's that inside. Now

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Speaker 1: he's sitting up higher. So now you come off the

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Speaker 1: ball flying and while he's thinking trying to figure it out, Boom.

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Speaker 1: You give him that speed to power. So now you're

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Speaker 1: running over. So there's a lot of different moves that

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Speaker 1: you do. And I think with certain players, um who

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Speaker 1: already have a speed rush, which most of them do.

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Speaker 1: Now what's the counter. You could do a spin move.

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Speaker 1: You can have a move inside. What's the other move,

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Speaker 1: shaking bake. You can fake like you're going inside the

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Speaker 1: head bob give him ahead. Make them sit down when

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Speaker 1: you do that is so they can sit down because

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Speaker 1: they gotta protect that inside. They sit down, and then

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Speaker 1: you get back outside. Now that you got them kind

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Speaker 1: of lot on their feet. Usually if you're flying off

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Speaker 1: the ball, they're running, you catch them trying to kick

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Speaker 1: with that leg boom and you get your hand inside

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Speaker 1: that chest plate and now you run them. So there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of different things you can do based on

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Speaker 1: that one. I love that, and it all builds off

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Speaker 1: of each other. The way you're discussing that they're Willie.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I used to enjoy. I still

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Speaker 1: do it now because we have the technology to do it.

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Speaker 1: But I enjoy watching the sack tapes at the end

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Speaker 1: of the year print out, like the top ten guys

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Speaker 1: in terms of sacks, and you just watch their reel

334
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Speaker 1: and see how they're getting home. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that's it's always stuck out to me, and it's

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Speaker 1: it's been that win past and I still see it today.

337
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Speaker 1: It's how many sacks are kind of on your secondary rush.

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you, and Buck, I know you see

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Speaker 1: the same thing with teammates on the scouting side. And

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Speaker 1: Will you saw with your teammates those rookies that get

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Speaker 1: out there, Willie and their initial rushes is stopped and

342
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Speaker 1: their feet go dead and they think the play is over,

343
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Speaker 1: and you're like, man, there's there's five or six sacks.

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Speaker 1: Some of these guys pick up a year off of

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Speaker 1: a secondary rush. And what goes into that, the tenacity

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Speaker 1: to be able to fight through that. Well, you just

347
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: gotta understand that. You know, sometimes your initial move is

348
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Speaker 1: not always gonna be your perfect move. It's not always

349
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Speaker 1: gonna work, but you have to keep fighting and once,

350
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Speaker 1: like I said, the worst thing is for the lineman

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Speaker 1: to get their hands off you. But if you can

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Speaker 1: maneuver and work your hands and get loose, having that motor,

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Speaker 1: being able to keep going and keep finishing the play.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes guys are not gonna be open right away. Sometimes

355
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Speaker 1: the secondary they do a great job by covering and

356
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Speaker 1: they take away that first look, so the quarterback's gonna

357
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Speaker 1: pull the ball down. The other thing is you're you're

358
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Speaker 1: taught and I used to hear this from parcels all

359
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Speaker 1: the time. The worst place for a pass rusher is

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Speaker 1: behind the quarterback. Right. So if you got that quarterback

361
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: per rift and he's still even with you and you're

362
00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,440
Speaker 1: rushing the edge, you can see if he pulls that

363
00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:14,920
Speaker 1: ball down, the lineman has no clue what is going

364
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Speaker 1: on behind him. So if you stop, usually he'll kind

365
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Speaker 1: of ease up because he thinks the ball is gone

366
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Speaker 1: or the player is over. He doesn't know he's working

367
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Speaker 1: off of you, basically, So you have to be really

368
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Speaker 1: good at reading the quarterback um understanding when he pulls

369
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Speaker 1: that ball down, where is his escape, where's his escape lanes?

370
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Speaker 1: Where is he gonna go? Never give up the outside

371
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Speaker 1: because that's usually you keep your guy on your inside shoulder.

372
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Speaker 1: But if you can get around that horn and he's

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Speaker 1: still in that pocket, you gotta keep running. If he's

374
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Speaker 1: trying to step up, you can give him a fake

375
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Speaker 1: like you're going in there, What is the quarterback gonna do.

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Speaker 1: He's gonna try to pop out so we can buy

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Speaker 1: time so we can run and throw the football. So

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Speaker 1: a lot of it, in my opinion, is extinctial, Like

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Speaker 1: you gotta have great instincts. But you also got to

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Speaker 1: know what everybody else is doing, you know, across the front.

381
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Speaker 1: If you've got guys that are attacking certain gaps, you

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Speaker 1: know there's certain places he can't go, so you can

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Speaker 1: kind of take a calculated guess where you need to

384
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Speaker 1: be or where the quarterback escape lane is going to

385
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Speaker 1: be and kind of beat him to the punch. So

386
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Speaker 1: much of what we talked about has been about pass rushing,

387
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Speaker 1: getting after the quarterback and those things, but the complete

388
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,879
Speaker 1: guys also able to set the edge and their factors

389
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Speaker 1: against the run. So when you look at the great ones,

390
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Speaker 1: if you're talking about a great defensive end, what does

391
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Speaker 1: it take to be a guy that also is able

392
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Speaker 1: to stop the run When it comes to running outside,

393
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Speaker 1: I would say just depending on what the coverage is.

394
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Speaker 1: Like For me, it was always depending on the coverage.

395
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Speaker 1: If we didn't really do much corner force, where the

396
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Speaker 1: corner had to force it was either me or Rodney Harrison,

397
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Speaker 1: or me or Lloyd Malloyd. It was the outside lineback

398
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Speaker 1: or was the strong safety who set the edge. So

399
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Speaker 1: for me, I understood that when I had forced I

400
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: made sure I gave myself enough space. I didn't get

401
00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,639
Speaker 1: too tight. I was able to take care of the

402
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: gap that I was responsible for by pushing the tight

403
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Speaker 1: end or the tackle in that gap, but also keep

404
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,920
Speaker 1: my shoulder free and and keep my eyes, my head

405
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 1: and eyes on the outside. Where a lot of edge

406
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:10,760
Speaker 1: guys get in trouble is when a back starts to

407
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Speaker 1: play inside and they look in, they peek, and then

408
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,639
Speaker 1: alignment seals them and then the back pops out. My

409
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: thing was always be the aggressor, always be the guy

410
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Speaker 1: to attack. So I would fly off the ball and

411
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 1: I would bang the tight end and I would start

412
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Speaker 1: to man handle him or the tackle, and I would

413
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:31,800
Speaker 1: set and establish myself outside Already. I wanted that back

414
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:34,639
Speaker 1: or whoever to see me outside to let them know

415
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,080
Speaker 1: right away you can't get outside the forces taken care of.

416
00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:40,440
Speaker 1: They'll stop their feet immediately, and then they're trying to

417
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Speaker 1: find another gap, or they're trying to go back inside,

418
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:45,359
Speaker 1: and then that's when you've got guys coming from the

419
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Speaker 1: opposite side. So for me, it was important and taking

420
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Speaker 1: pride of setting the edge. What we always say was

421
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Speaker 1: I wanted to be dominant, and I wanted them to

422
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 1: know and see me flash that way. They would think

423
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Speaker 1: that that gap is not available. I love that, Willie.

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Speaker 1: If you're looking at this current group of guys, um,

425
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Speaker 1: and we use the phrase teaching tape all the time.

426
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Speaker 1: You know, if you're gonna take us a cut ups

427
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:11,440
Speaker 1: and take them to some high schoolers and say, okay,

428
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,280
Speaker 1: this is the guy that you want to emulate and

429
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: you want to study. Is there is there a name

430
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 1: that comes to mind amongst all these great past rushers

431
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,200
Speaker 1: we have right now? Well there is. I mean, you

432
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 1: got Alan, you got Gary, you got you got a

433
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,480
Speaker 1: bunch of good guys. I think even Ferguson. There's a

434
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: bunch of guys that are in this draft that are

435
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,679
Speaker 1: really explosive, talented um um edge rushers and could be

436
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,600
Speaker 1: great edge edge stoppers, run stoppers. UM. But the common denominator,

437
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,760
Speaker 1: like I said, DJ, that I always find and I

438
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,800
Speaker 1: always see, is they don't use their hands. They go

439
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 1: into the blocks with their elbows, you know, or their

440
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: shoulders and they get locked up um for us. You know,

441
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: when I teach these young guys, always teach them like

442
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,639
Speaker 1: a boxer, you keep your hands up, always keep your

443
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,679
Speaker 1: hands here, ready to attack. Because lineman like to load.

444
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: They like to load their hands. They take those big

445
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,760
Speaker 1: steps and then they bring all that power and they

446
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,280
Speaker 1: get into you and they grab you. So if your

447
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 1: hands are here and you see the play coming in

448
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,479
Speaker 1: and you shoot, it doesn't matter how strong alignment is,

449
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 1: it doesn't really matter. You already have the leverage, You

450
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 1: already have your hands inside. You attack the chess plate.

451
00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,119
Speaker 1: Now you have the leverage. Now you have control, so

452
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: you dictate where you go versus now you're fighting trying

453
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,199
Speaker 1: to get his hands off of you. And when the

454
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,760
Speaker 1: ball goes outside or whatever, you can't get off the block,

455
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:27,399
Speaker 1: it's over. It's only a matter of seconds before the

456
00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 1: guy sees it and gets outside and move like plays

457
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,479
Speaker 1: happens so much faster in high school than college, than

458
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 1: college than the pros that you don't have that much time.

459
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: So the lost art with all this, in my opinion,

460
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,400
Speaker 1: with these young players is their hands. There's not enough

461
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,639
Speaker 1: coaches teaching these players to use their hands. Shoot their hands.

462
00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: Use your hands as a weapon, um, and it helps

463
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,879
Speaker 1: you so much because it gives you the advantage in

464
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,520
Speaker 1: the run game and in the passing game. You know,

465
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: and thinking about two of the premier Russias in the league,

466
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 1: you have von Miller and of Khalil Mack. Two guys

467
00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: that have been very productive, but they have different styles.

468
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 1: Von Miller. You talked about his speed, his get off

469
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: talking about Kalil Mack and how uncommon is it for

470
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,000
Speaker 1: a power rush to be able to accumulate the sacks

471
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:14,960
Speaker 1: and the numbers that he's been able to do. Yeah,

472
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,359
Speaker 1: I mean it's incredible with him. He got his hands

473
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 1: are like stones. You know, he's a powerful guy, but

474
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 1: he is fast too. He's explosive. He's just more powerful,

475
00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:28,240
Speaker 1: so he uses a little bit different When you watch

476
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 1: him rush. He's gonna hit you with the power, but

477
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,719
Speaker 1: he's also agile and versatile enough to get off and

478
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,520
Speaker 1: make moves off of that. So his initial shock is

479
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: he's coming off speed, power, explosiveness. He gets into you.

480
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 1: He gives you that initial shock and you see those

481
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 1: linemen trying to trying to catch themselves, and then he's

482
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: off making a play. He's getting rid of him, he's shedding.

483
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 1: And this is a guy who played linebacker, you know,

484
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: uh if I remember at Buffalo, so he made All

485
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: Pro at linebacker and at defensive vent. So it's shows you, uh,

486
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 1: the level of athleticism and the athlete that he is

487
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: what he's able to do, but that's rare. You don't

488
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,160
Speaker 1: find a lot of guys that that that's so explosive,

489
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:18,240
Speaker 1: that's so athletic, um that is so powerful. And when

490
00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: you look at his leverage and the leverage that he

491
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,000
Speaker 1: plays with UM, his been and the power that he

492
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,880
Speaker 1: generates through his beIN as he's taken his first two

493
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 1: or three steps, it's pretty remarkable. Well, the last question

494
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: from me and just kind of as you follow the

495
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: game as closely as you do, and you see the

496
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 1: evolution of the r p O as you see a

497
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 1: lot of this college game kind of seeping into the NFL,

498
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: of the balls getting out, it's going to the perimeter. UM,

499
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: what should we look at? What should change from an

500
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: evaluation standpoint when we're looking at guys coming off the

501
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: edge with how the game is changing and what it's

502
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 1: gonna look like maybe five ten years from now. I

503
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 1: think the big word is hybrid. Right. We always talk

504
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: about these hybrid players, players that are able to do

505
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,560
Speaker 1: a lot. Um. You could be an edge rusher one play,

506
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 1: and this is good for defensive coordinators and people that

507
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: are scheming as well. When when I evaluate and I

508
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,560
Speaker 1: look at players. I talk about a couple of different things.

509
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: We all look at pass rushes and the first thing

510
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: we say is sacks. Right, we look at all these

511
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 1: guys that get drafted on the edge. Oh he had

512
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: all these sacks. But what about the running game. The

513
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,399
Speaker 1: teams that are winning the Super Bowls, they run the

514
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: football as well. They do a good job at it.

515
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:25,080
Speaker 1: So I want a player that on third down like

516
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: me and Mike Vrabel did, we can put our hands

517
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: in the dirt and we turned into a natural defensive

518
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: end because it's pass rush and we're coming off the

519
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 1: ball and we can play the run. If a team

520
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: tries to run a draw or something off the board,

521
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: then on first and second down or eleven personnel or whatever,

522
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: when they bring in maybe a SPEEDI or receiver UM

523
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,479
Speaker 1: and you have to drop in coverage or you know

524
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: the backs and tight ends, you're able to cover those

525
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 1: guys in space? How do these guys move in space?

526
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: Stand them up, work drills, get them in space and

527
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: see how it works. They tried that with jadeveon Clown.

528
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: He didn't really work as well. They're talking about doing

529
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: that with Gary. I'm not sure that that's gonna be

530
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 1: a good thing for him as well. I know he's athletic,

531
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 1: and I know he runs well, but it's different when

532
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 1: you're covering and you're covering ground, you're covering zones. Yeah,

533
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: it's different movement. You gotta be able to flip your hips.

534
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: You gotta read the quarterback. It's quick, the ball comes

535
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: out quick. These receivers are fast learning how to jam

536
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,920
Speaker 1: um where to be and then also play the run

537
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,600
Speaker 1: from in space. So I'm looking for guys that are

538
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: able to do a lot of different things if I

539
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 1: need them on first and second down. If we're playing

540
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: a certain coverage where we gotta ban Joe back which

541
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 1: means the linebackers got a man and man, we got

542
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: the tight ends and backs. He's able to do that.

543
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 1: He runs really well. Uh if if his first and

544
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: second down I need him to hunker in there in

545
00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 1: his sixth technique over the tight end or a five

546
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: technique over the tackle and be stout enough and play

547
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: the run and set the edge. He can do that. Um,

548
00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: can you rush off the first second down, of course,

549
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: But I'm looking for a guy who's first versatile enough

550
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: to do all those different things. And it's hard to

551
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: convert Parcels did it with me because he started early,

552
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 1: and I guess I was athletic enough to do it.

553
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: But he told me right when I came in, you're

554
00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 1: gonna do everything. You're not just gonna be a pass rusher.

555
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: You're gonna cover and you gotta learn it, and I

556
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: want to hear any excuses. And I was the end

557
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 1: of it, like I was like, all right, but it

558
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: was one of the hardest things I ever had to do.

559
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 1: But that made me more valuable to my team because

560
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: I didn't have to come off the field ever. When

561
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: we went to go line. I became that outside linebacker

562
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 1: on the on the edge, you know, when it was

563
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: eleven personnel or whatever, and then I need to walk

564
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,880
Speaker 1: out on number two. I was good in coverage. UM

565
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 1: when we had to rush it was third down, all

566
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,040
Speaker 1: I did was put my hand in the dirt and

567
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: I was coming off the edge first and second down

568
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 1: runner past. It didn't really matter. I could play every play.

569
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 1: And I think right now certain players are in in

570
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: a in a certain UM, we're only using one there.

571
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: There one dimensional. There's not a lot of great outside

572
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,200
Speaker 1: linebacker slash d n s or the word elephant uh

573
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: type players that can do it all. And I think

574
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,640
Speaker 1: that starts at the lower levels. We don't ask them

575
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: to do those things. We put them in one position

576
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: and we tell them to go. But if we start

577
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: training them early enough, they'll start using their feet, they'll

578
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: stand up, they'll be more comfortable in space, They'll understand

579
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,679
Speaker 1: that the more they can do, the more valuable they

580
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: will become to their teams. See that, Like that conversation

581
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: that you just had about guys being complete players, standing

582
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: up and doing all those things. I'm really surprised you're

583
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: never my teammate. And I'm surprised you never my teammate

584
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,400
Speaker 1: in college because the greatest player that has ever done

585
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 1: that was Lawrence Taylor, Lawrence Taylor being a d N

586
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,159
Speaker 1: outside linebacker. So I want to take you all the

587
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 1: way back to and I think we came to Anaheim

588
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: and we played Carolina, played USC in the class and

589
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,160
Speaker 1: I just wonder if at any time during that game,

590
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,119
Speaker 1: when we're kind of running up and down the field,

591
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 1: did you ever regret and I want to be a

592
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: tar heel, did you ever regret and that wanted at

593
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 1: someone that that came in and and stood in the

594
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: shadows of Lawrence Taylor and learn how to play the

595
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 1: game and a dominant fashion. I love Lawrence Taylor. He

596
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: was one of the guys that I watched. He was

597
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: it was it was one of the linebackers. I watched,

598
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: Derek Thomas, Like I said, I watched Lawrence Taylor, Andre Tippett.

599
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: Those are my guys that I watched. And the one

600
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 1: thing that I remember and playing you guys Tatar Hills

601
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Down and Anahean was I didn't get a lot of

602
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 1: action to my You know what I'm saying, DJ, you

603
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 1: guys ran out our safety nine. Really, what the heck? Listen,

604
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,880
Speaker 1: listen what I'm saying. They ran the ball more than

605
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:31,640
Speaker 1: they passed though we ran to really through seven pass. Yeah,

606
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: they ran the entire game DJ one. What they did

607
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: was they were smart. They scheme will They did not

608
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: run at number fifty five. They ran out our safety.

609
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say no day, but you know what

610
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: I'm talking about. Everybody run the option a little bit right.

611
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: They ran down to our down safety and did pretty well.

612
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: They might even knock one of our sais out of

613
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: the game, Mike. Mike said, mean, we might even talk

614
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: one of our seconds out of the game, and I

615
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: was really frustrated that I didn't Donnie getting no action.

616
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: You know, I would love to go back and watch

617
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: the game to see they did a great job. We

618
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: gotta find that tape. It's on YouTube. You want to

619
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: watch it on YouTube. I may have been perusing in

620
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: that it's it's out there. You can check it out.

621
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 1: Come on, I'm gonna do that, hey, Willie, you just

622
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 1: so you know, uh, September one, North Carolina hosts app

623
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: State this year, So I'm going right, that's right. Feeling good?

624
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: Uh feeling Strong's he ain't feeling he ain't feeling good,

625
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: trust me, he is not feeling good. Hey, Willie, thank

626
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 1: you so much for your time, man, and for those listening. Look,

627
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: this guy has a red jacket for being in the

628
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: Patriots Hall of Fame. It's time he got a gold

629
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: jacket and went into the Hall of Fame. Accandal. How

630
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 1: there's nobody that dominated big games on the big stage

631
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: from that position like Willie McGinn did sixteen sacks in

632
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: the postseason. Get this guy at gold jacket already. What's

633
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: taken so long? Appreciate it? D J. Hey, man, you

634
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: hit the nail on the head when you're talking about

635
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: with him again as being one of the best to

636
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: ever do it, especially in big moments. The insight that

637
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: he brings to the position, because it's more than just

638
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: a physical position in terms of just being able to

639
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: run around the corner and get to the quarterback, understanding

640
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: how you set up your hand placement, how to set

641
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: up your moves and sequence your moves better. Yet the

642
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: energy that you have to expand. I think the big

643
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: thing for me is him talking about von Miller and

644
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: then get off and how it reminded him of my

645
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: former teammate Derek Thomas in the way that he was

646
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: able to take over games. I believe when you have

647
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: those kind of guys, they kind of jump out. They

648
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: pop off the tape right away and no doubt and

649
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: by the way, you ken just gloss over the USC

650
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 1: North Carolina trash well. I mean, it's one of those

651
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 1: things like you know, I learned um, you know when

652
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: when you win. But it was it was one of

653
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: those things, you know, like everybody always talks about the

654
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: traditional programs, and I know s he is a program

655
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: that has had great players, but I just kind of

656
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: like he was one of the one of the big

657
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,719
Speaker 1: moments in that career. To come out to California and

658
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: to put the b down that we put on sc

659
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of you know, it's kind of wonder the cherries

660
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: on the Sunday from college career. Yeah, there you going. Look,

661
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: if I had done the same thing, I probably would

662
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: have said it, But again I would have done it

663
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: for a safe distance from Willie if I'm gonna have

664
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: those conversations anyways, Willie, Willie is awesome. Uh. Coming up,

665
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,040
Speaker 1: We've got a cut more interviews coming your way to

666
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 1: Marcus where if you've ever wondered what went into his

667
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: mind on the Fake Spence Act, that famous Fake Spence

668
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: Act against Day, He's gonna explain that. Uh in just

669
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: a little bit. You're gonna want to stick around for that.

670
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,400
Speaker 1: But first up, Jim Naggy, somebody we've known forever in

671
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: the scouting world, won a bunch of Super Bowls in

672
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: New England with William mcguinnis. Uh, spent time in Kansas City,

673
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: spent time in Seattle, helped build that Seattle roster into

674
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 1: one of the best we've seen in the last couple

675
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: of decades. Buck, He's he's got a great eye for talent,

676
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: and Uh, it's somebody we've both known for a long time.

677
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect for I wanted to

678
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: get his thoughts on the edge resser position. So here's

679
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: our conversation with Jim Naggy. Hi, Jim, we had a

680
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: chance to talk to a guy you know quite well

681
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,200
Speaker 1: and William mc ginnis talking about the edge position. And

682
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: when I first talked to Willie, the first thing I

683
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: think of it, and even talk to him about it

684
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: all the time, is Willie. How it's not easy for

685
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: us to find guys like you just talking about Willie

686
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,719
Speaker 1: McGinnis is an edge rusher, how unique it is with

687
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: his combination of size, power, speed and everything he brought

688
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: to the table. Yeah, that's a great point, Daniel. I

689
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: think it goes back to my time in New England

690
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: and Coach Belichick would always say certain guys don't grow

691
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: on trees. So we we were we really weren't out

692
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: there looking for the next William McGinnis, because they don't.

693
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: They don't happen very often. But no, I think I

694
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,560
Speaker 1: think what Willie brought to the table was the biggest

695
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: things where his combination of length and power. Um usually

696
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: long guys you know sometimes struggle playing with a ton

697
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: of power. Usually power players are more compact um. But

698
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 1: Willie was such a specimen and then he could use

699
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: that length, use that power, and he also had the

700
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: speed factor too, So again that's why he was such

701
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 1: a high pick and such a productive NFL player. I

702
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: think he uh in his grew with most playoff stacks

703
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: something like that. But uh, you know, great rusher, But

704
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: Willy was truly unique. I mean, you walk out on

705
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 1: a you know how it is. You go to a

706
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: college football field and if a guy pops out to you,

707
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: you know he's an NFL prospect. Rarely do you go

708
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: out an NFL practice field and a guy kind of

709
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: sticks out. Well, Willy even stuck out on an NFL

710
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: practice field. That's when you know you got a great one. No,

711
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: no doubt. You mentioned the combination of speed or power.

712
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: Is it possible in your mind to be a successful

713
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: edge defender, edge rusher in the National Football League if

714
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: you don't have either speed or power. I don't think so.

715
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,239
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I think you can win with

716
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 1: your speed, you can win with power, and then you

717
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:46,440
Speaker 1: can win with your savvy and your know how in

718
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: your hand used and be a technician. But I think

719
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: you have to have one element of the speed or

720
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 1: the power, and it's the guys that can translate that

721
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: speed to power as you know, Um, that's when you

722
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: really start separating yourself and and um, you know, finding

723
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: it got to it to me, the biggest thing is

724
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: finding guys that know how to rush, you know, and

725
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: they can incorporate all those things and know how to

726
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: use all their tools. When you look at some of

727
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: the guys you had in New England obviously had some

728
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 1: prototype players and size was a big part of it.

729
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 1: When you look around the league in your time in

730
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 1: the scouting world and you see guys like an Elvis

731
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Duomerville have success, even somebody you know, Lamar Woodley, was

732
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: not six ft five. When you see guys that maybe

733
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 1: lack that elite size but have success and and in

734
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,400
Speaker 1: a couple of cases, you're not even talking about just blurs.

735
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: We're not talking about someone that's just a pure speed rusher,

736
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: maybe something like a Vic Beasley. But what is it

737
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: about the guys that don't have those ideal traits in

738
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: terms of size are able to be successful. I think

739
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 1: the two guys that you talked about Elvis and Woodley both.

740
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: The unique thing about both those guys were the body

741
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: types they were. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

742
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 1: but doom Doomerville might have been right at six ft

743
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: or or even five and change. And uh, I remember

744
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: Lamar was right about six one. But they both that

745
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: disproportionately long arms, so they did have the length factor

746
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: working for him, which was huge. Um. I think one

747
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: player that I've been with most recently was Frank Clark

748
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: in Seattle and just the explosion and the explosiveness and

749
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,040
Speaker 1: the violence that he rushes with. And that's kind of

750
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: what makes Frank special is that, uh, you know, he's

751
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 1: so explosive on contact and he's he's such a violent,

752
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: violent rusher. Um. And I know you're around a guy

753
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: probably in Baltimore, Michael McCrary. He was kind of different

754
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: the sense that I always felt like Michael want with

755
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: his relentlessness in his motor You know, he got a

756
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: lot of those motor sacks, clean up sacks, so it

757
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 1: can come in all all shapes and sizes. But um, yeah,

758
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: to me, you can't just pinpoint a body type, but

759
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,239
Speaker 1: one thing they usually have to have his arm length.

760
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: You talk about the length, as well as some of

761
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 1: the snap and that shock in your hands, as well

762
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: as being able to roll your hips when you're watching

763
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: the body coming off the edge and you're scouting and

764
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: you're getting ready to take your notes there, Jim, the

765
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,359
Speaker 1: first thing you look for is the snap begins as

766
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: what well, first they would be snap anticipation. You know,

767
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: some guys can can really get off the rock, they

768
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 1: just have a knack for it. Um and other guys,

769
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: even though they're very explosive, you look at their ten

770
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 1: ten ten yard dash times coming out of the combine

771
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: and you don't see it equate to sack production. A

772
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: lot of times when you go back after seeing a

773
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 1: great ten yard time, it's the reaction time off the

774
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: ball is slow. So that's really the first thing I

775
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: look at is tend to anticipate the snap count and

776
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: get off and then what how much ground do they

777
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: cover with that first step? That first step explosion is key,

778
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 1: no doubt. I always like freezing the frame on maybe

779
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,759
Speaker 1: the first ten or so pass rush opportunities. When you're

780
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: watching a guy and just say on that group of

781
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: defensive linement, is he the first one with his hand

782
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: up and the first one getting off the ball. It's

783
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: usually a pretty good indication, even just over a ten

784
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: snap sample. Absolutely no, So using that slow modementton is

785
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: huge for for these rushers that, like you said, like

786
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: that first quarter, first quarter and a half, just to

787
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: get a feel who's getting off. How about the ability

788
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,919
Speaker 1: to finish, Jim, the importance there and what you look for. Yeah,

789
00:35:58,000 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: you know, that's a key thing too. Some guys can

790
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: some guys are more disruptive and productive that if that

791
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 1: makes sense, they can get around the quarterback, but really

792
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: getting him on the ground is the next step. And

793
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: I always go back to scouting Chris Long when he

794
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: was coming out of Virginia. I think his junior year

795
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 1: you put on Chris's tape and he was always around

796
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 1: the quarterback, you know, you know, disrupting, effecting throws. But

797
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: then that senior year he comes back and a lot

798
00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 1: of people wondered why he came back, And then that

799
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: senior year he came back and he really really learned

800
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: how to finish and get the quarterback on the ground.

801
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: So that's, uh, it's key for those guys in the NFL.

802
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: That's that's how they make their money. You can't just

803
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: affect throws, you gotta get them on the ground. So

804
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: now finishing is definitely I think it's something you can learn.

805
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: I think that you know, being coached up and being

806
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: around other great rushers, they can kind of teach you

807
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: tricks to the trade. But I think one thing that

808
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 1: if you see all great guys that can finish, they're

809
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: not always gonna get there and get a clean shot.

810
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: Always look for grip strength in a rusher two because

811
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,840
Speaker 1: if they can get around the quarterback and grab some

812
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 1: cloth and pull that guy down, that that's a key

813
00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: component to finish them. One underrated aspects of the position

814
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,000
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and really just start paying attention in

815
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,440
Speaker 1: the last couple of years talk about finishing. Vision to me,

816
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,879
Speaker 1: when you've got athletic quarterbacks we have in the game

817
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: right now, we're gonna be able to climb and move

818
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,280
Speaker 1: around inside the pocket a lot of times. Uh, your

819
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: you're aiming point changes in the middle of a play,

820
00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 1: and vision to me, being able to see and find

821
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,640
Speaker 1: the quarterback has become very underrated. Yeah, absolutely, I think

822
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,280
Speaker 1: I think having aw awareness as a rusher um is huge.

823
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: And when you see a guy that has some awareness

824
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: off the edge and knows where the quarterback's going. Then

825
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: you start thinking, well, what could we do if we

826
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: moved him inside, you know, because if you gotta have

827
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,439
Speaker 1: awareness in there too, It's like, uh, you know, look

828
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: at some of these great rushers that that inside guys

829
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 1: that can get their hands up and beat a bunch

830
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: of balls down. That's a critical thing knowing where the

831
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 1: quarterback is, being able to get your hands up. So

832
00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people wouldn't think that, you know that

833
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: vision is key for a rusher, but it is. If

834
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: you you see these tunnel vision guys that just get

835
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: locked on the blocker in front of them, Um, really

836
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: have a hard time. Last question on these edge rusher

837
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: is how important is it with scheme fit or has

838
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:05,279
Speaker 1: that changed at all from from when you started in

839
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: the league. Um, look, we had kind of true four

840
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: three teams, true three four teams. Obviously there's been a

841
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: lot of changes over the years. But is there still

842
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,279
Speaker 1: an importance you place on fit and scheme? I think

843
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: there is overall big picture in your defense, but I

844
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,800
Speaker 1: think if you can find a guy that can that

845
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,080
Speaker 1: can get to the quarterback, you've got to find a

846
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: place for him. There there's so few guys that can

847
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: really do it at a high level. That if you

848
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 1: if you find a guy that's maybe outside of your

849
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 1: scheme and your prototype, um, you got to rely on

850
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: your defensive coordinator figure out a way to get on

851
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: the field and use them. Because again, as scouts, you

852
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 1: and I we go out on the road looking for

853
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: those guys all year and you might you might see

854
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: one guy that can rush the quarterback the entire fall.

855
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: So um, you know, I think coordinators are being more um,

856
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,440
Speaker 1: there's been more creative with how they designed fronts nowadays.

857
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 1: So I think you can get different body types, um,

858
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 1: you know, in different positions on the field, regardless of

859
00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: where you are. Now to summarize, you can rush the

860
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: pastor will make room. We'll find a spot for you.

861
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:05,359
Speaker 1: For you, dude, I can't thank you enough for your time. Man,

862
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: it's awesome stuff. I really appreciate you, buddy. All right,

863
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:10,799
Speaker 1: Black Well, look, you have a chance to hear that

864
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: chat there with with Naggie and talking about edge rushers.

865
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: A lot of times it's a prototype series. We're talking

866
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: about wanting guys with prototype size, but it doesn't necessarily

867
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: have to be the tallest guy in the world. We've

868
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: seen guys they can get it done without that height,

869
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: but the length that does matter. The length matters because

870
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 1: when you you're an edge rush, you're dealing with these long,

871
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: athletic offensive tackles and they're able to put their hands

872
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:33,600
Speaker 1: in your chest, and if you don't have the length

873
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: to kind of knock their hands away, it makes it really,

874
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: really tough. They just ride you around the perimeter. So

875
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,279
Speaker 1: if you're an undersized guy, you do have to have

876
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,400
Speaker 1: great arm length, and you have to have what I

877
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: call a special trade. It has to be something else

878
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,920
Speaker 1: that you bring to the table, catlike quickness and explosive

879
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: spin move something that makes you super slippery. You have

880
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,920
Speaker 1: to be able to make up for your height deficiency

881
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: with some athleticism, something that allows you to kind of dominate,

882
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,759
Speaker 1: some kind of superiority when it comes of the athleticism.

883
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:03,920
Speaker 1: And I love the conversation about Chris long Well. You

884
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: talked about earlier disruption versus production. You saw somebody as

885
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: a young player that was disruptive and then by the

886
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,760
Speaker 1: time at the end of his college turned it into production.

887
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: And that's something you want to see when you're watching

888
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 1: these guys as they continue to grow uh and get

889
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: a chance to evaluate them, all right, Buck, I got

890
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,399
Speaker 1: a chance to to talk with DeMarcus Ware. And if

891
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: you've watched the NFL over the last fifteen plus years,

892
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,080
Speaker 1: you know who DeMarcus Ware is, and you know he

893
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: emerged as really a prototype, if not the prototype at

894
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: the position. Talk about the arm length, that the ability

895
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: to win with speed, with power technician and somebody who's

896
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 1: been very involved in mentoring this next wave of pass rushers.

897
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 1: I promise you're gonna enjoy this chat with de Marcus Ware.

898
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:48,200
Speaker 1: This is the game. Roethlisberger in the shotgun. They need

899
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: to reach their own forty eight to continue Denver Russ's

900
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: five again. Roethlisberger DeepDrop pumps that he pulls away. He

901
00:40:55,239 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 1: gotta be stopped and is free Denver Fuck that, DeMarcus

902
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: lare A'm excited to be joined by DeMarcus Where and

903
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: when I say a prolific pass rusher, hundred thirty eight

904
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: and a half sacks, I think qualifies you as a

905
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: prolific pass rusher. DeMarcus, First of all, thank you so

906
00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: much for the time today. Do you ever get sick

907
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: of hearing that number? You know what I see him

908
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 1: hearing number, especially now, but always think about life. How

909
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 1: did I do it? Like? How would I actually be

910
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: so consistent of my whole career? And it's actually pretty

911
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: cool to see your name this and stone the guys

912
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 1: and looked up to my Bruce Man Michael Strain. Well,

913
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: I want to start kind of kind of back at

914
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 1: the beginning. We're gonna dig into to the pass rushers

915
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: and what makes a great pass rusher. But I'm just

916
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 1: curious in your individual story. I remember scouting you at Troy.

917
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: I remember having those discussions in the Ravens draft room

918
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,279
Speaker 1: with Ozzy Newsom, and Ozzy couldn't get over the fact

919
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,439
Speaker 1: that how the heck did Alabama miss on this kid?

920
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: So how did you walk us to the journey? How

921
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: did you end up at Troy? How did that happen?

922
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,640
Speaker 1: You know? The crazy thing is I was about receiver.

923
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 1: I gotta put you by no One, and Troy gave

924
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 1: me an opportunity one scholarship and they opened the door

925
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: for me and the Risks history. I hear that Roseford

926
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: in our college got a six foot five to any

927
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: any work on the four forward to come bye in

928
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,360
Speaker 1: the senior goal. And I've made a name for myself,

929
00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,880
Speaker 1: and I think that's where it starts at being an underdog.

930
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: Always had sometimes to fight and that's the best or

931
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: she's gotta have as little that's a great pastor. Actually

932
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 1: haven't been around other great pass rushers. Is there something

933
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: personality wise that you guys all share. I don't don't

934
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: think guys like a true agreed, but you know that

935
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: you gotta change me douty need to keep the spicing right.

936
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 1: And a lot of the guys always the reality of

937
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 1: the tenacity to get to the quarterback, being able to

938
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: convert speak, being able to now push your guy to

939
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: the quarterback made the makeet right. But they're all team players,

940
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: all great pastors team players, and that's something that you

941
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: can't you know, gou get a miserable as they wee

942
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,359
Speaker 1: recorded what he thinks is they actually have to earn

943
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 1: and cabin ship what I call this co work. Uh.

944
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: And they're usually the capitulated, so uh, they're greatly You

945
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: mentioned they're about speed to power and we reference it

946
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: all the time in the in the scouting process. But

947
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: can you walk us through being able to set that up?

948
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 1: You know? I think of it sometimes almost like a picture.

949
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: You know you're going on the mountain. You kind of

950
00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 1: have a game plan for a batter. Uh did you

951
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: have a game plan for the guys you were going

952
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 1: up against about whether you're gonna work speed off power

953
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 1: or power off speed? Did that change game the game? Yeah?

954
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:40,680
Speaker 1: I have a big every time. And as I teach

955
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: you guys, now, the first thing I teach you to speed.

956
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: You gotta have a blastball, just like you said, if

957
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: you're your first pitch down and the power will be

958
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: your curveball in baseball. But you have to beat the tower,

959
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 1: the sort of person you know, you gotta get off

960
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,800
Speaker 1: the call. You gotta get into open their data and

961
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,959
Speaker 1: sort of have that man pours onto the food balls

962
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 1: and now they can't think the univer into power. Push

963
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:06,560
Speaker 1: this guy positive. It's amazing. Quarterback, get off with cit point.

964
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: And that's like the first essential thing that you teach

965
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 1: a past frust first speed speed, like the first ball,

966
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: Now how bring the power so now you can keep

967
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: them off. I want to get to, you know, in

968
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,360
Speaker 1: the scouting process, and we get to the spring, we

969
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: get to pro days, what would you say are some

970
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: good drills or good tools we can use on the

971
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: scouting side to be able to evaluate whether or not

972
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: a guy can bend. You know, we see a lot

973
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: of times guys running the loops, running the hoops, and

974
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: we want to keep an eye and seek and you

975
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 1: keep all your cleats in the ground as you're coming

976
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: around the hoop. There, But is there are there some

977
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: drills you prefer where you feel like you can get

978
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,120
Speaker 1: a good evaluation to these guys. I would always look

979
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:51,440
Speaker 1: at how fast they are linear, and I would do like,

980
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:56,479
Speaker 1: are you know there's usually all you need when you're

981
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: you know, using speed, and then I'll do a change

982
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: in the ring change real like some type of the

983
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: latter drill. I would do a boxing bob, come to

984
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 1: see how fast they can change direction. Because also when

985
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: you get a big guys virtualista, you're getting all the

986
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: ball and then all of a sudden there's a screen

987
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: plat they gotta now changes they have a change of

988
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:17,759
Speaker 1: direction and now will convert and make it talk. So

989
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: when you get guys um, they can have good change

990
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: in direction, great linear speed, but great anchor. How are

991
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 1: they anchoring when they have some type of way to

992
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,520
Speaker 1: bring him in bigcom talber center bar, what it's how

993
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: do they actually take that on it. Are they can't

994
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,560
Speaker 1: move or if they've been in the corner, like you said,

995
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: attraction around and uh with around the google, how much

996
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,840
Speaker 1: traction do they fall at the finish? Are they slipping

997
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: at the beginning or do they have a headline? UM

998
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:57,000
Speaker 1: instant and those guys like player accountable area, dong bon dealer,

999
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: uh lego, man, those guys do around because he's some microphone. Well,

1000
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,760
Speaker 1: I want to get to one specific play in your career,

1001
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: and I'm sure it won't take you long to figure

1002
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,719
Speaker 1: out which one I'm talking about. But I think there's

1003
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 1: an opponent a component of pass rushers that gets lost.

1004
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: That's creativity um and and for you to bust out

1005
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: the fake spin move, walk us through how you came

1006
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 1: up with that. Was that something that just happened on

1007
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: the field, that you prepare that, because that's one of

1008
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,719
Speaker 1: the craziest things I've ever seen, you know, And there

1009
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: was something that you know, the place that was not

1010
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:33,880
Speaker 1: prepared at all. I actually was doing speed and then

1011
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: the first time I spun, he spun, really he was

1012
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,880
Speaker 1: the only time is one of those guys where he

1013
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: handled bad and he I spawned the sun And I

1014
00:46:47,239 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: said well down the road, I could do like a

1015
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:56,320
Speaker 1: half span you think I was around and then I

1016
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 1: got just go forward to the quarterback. And when that happened, alcohol,

1017
00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: I had for an in turn and I'm like, oh

1018
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: my god, wait for quarterback, and I just arranged. He

1019
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: got to say, so it was an had little thing.

1020
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,680
Speaker 1: This bet you have to do as a Russian. You

1021
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:17,279
Speaker 1: can't just say speed power. You gotta change it up

1022
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 1: days football game. Oh that's that's one of my all

1023
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: time favorite sex in the history of the NFL, showing

1024
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: the combination of the creativity the athleticism. Last question for me, um,

1025
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,319
Speaker 1: are there evolving pass rush moves still to come here?

1026
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: Is there more out there? Or is everything you can

1027
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: do pretty much already known. I'm just curious to know.

1028
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: Is there a way this thing gets taken to the

1029
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: next level. I think you can always evolved in your

1030
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: own time. You can teach somewhere how you do, but

1031
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,239
Speaker 1: your time is going to be different than yours. I

1032
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: think all the pastors. But I had things in mind

1033
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: martially like makes some martial arts because the attributes you

1034
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: are handled a lout of hand to hand come back

1035
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 1: and with that I would use that It's almost like

1036
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: who is the attacker one, the person that attacked first,

1037
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 1: the person that's probably going to usually win the battle.

1038
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 1: And how are you defending yourself? Are you sitting the

1039
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: guy up from a you know, hands fight move? Are

1040
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,360
Speaker 1: you sitting in the love from some type of push tape? Me?

1041
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,320
Speaker 1: But you know that already at a time, and you

1042
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: can set the guy out of the wind. So I

1043
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: think it's more to are really already uh pastris move

1044
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:36,280
Speaker 1: their operator and makes martial arts and a different type

1045
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: of party today that's going to really sit you over

1046
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: the top of your too much. Well, man, this is awesome.

1047
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:45,879
Speaker 1: I got a bunch of notes here that I took

1048
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: down and I felt like really learned something there on

1049
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,920
Speaker 1: the art form of the past rushing art form that

1050
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,359
Speaker 1: you perfected over your career at the Marcus. We can't

1051
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: thank you enough for joining us. Stay really appreciate it,

1052
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:58,239
Speaker 1: all right, Buck. I love getting a chance to visit

1053
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: with the Marcus. I'm still trying to figure out how

1054
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: this dude was a hundred eighty five pound wide receiver

1055
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: in high school. How did that happen? I mean, that's unbelievable,

1056
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: but it kind of we always talked about it in

1057
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 1: the run to the draft, like so much is made

1058
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: of size, and if a guy is big enough, is

1059
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 1: he stirredy enough, he's gonna be able to hold his

1060
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 1: own against the run. But as we've seen this league evolve,

1061
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: it's still about getting to the past. So he emerging

1062
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 1: from a hundred receiver being one of the best pass

1063
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,719
Speaker 1: verses in the game gives some of these undersized light

1064
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: guys a little hope that they also can kind of

1065
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: carve out a nice niche for themselves in the National

1066
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 1: Football League. And how great is it to hear him

1067
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,120
Speaker 1: discuss that the Joe Staley sack. I mean, it's really

1068
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: one of the more memorable sacks when when a sack

1069
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 1: goes viral. Okay, what did he did? He dump somebody

1070
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: on the ground Like this was a combination of creativity

1071
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 1: and athleticism. I don't know you'll see again, No, I

1072
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: don't know if you ever see anybody kind of put

1073
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 1: together that kind of move or be able to against

1074
00:49:50,680 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: an elite player like player where it doesn't look manufactured

1075
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,400
Speaker 1: or predetermined the way that it looks so instinctive. And

1076
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: how really was when he said up to spin he

1077
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 1: really had to get into him to come around and

1078
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 1: really sell him that he was going inside. But that

1079
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: takes a rare athlete, someone that has to have outstanding

1080
00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 1: balanced by the control and over all athletics be able

1081
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: to put at all. Also, I thought one more point

1082
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,839
Speaker 1: was the UH talk about hands. We say, okay, get

1083
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: off and effort. Those things we want to see right away.

1084
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 1: Hands you can improve and training and mixed martial arts

1085
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 1: a lot of these pass rushers have seen that really

1086
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 1: help him in that hand to hand. Absolutely, if you

1087
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: can be a dominant pass rush, you need to go

1088
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: see Mr Miyagi. You need to be able to wax on,

1089
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 1: watch on the wax off to be able to come off.

1090
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:35,799
Speaker 1: You know, maybe you might have to go to Cobra

1091
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 1: k He's still around. I know this. If if I

1092
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: was coaching the D line, I'm gonna put him on

1093
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: the fence and I'm gonna make them paint, and I'm

1094
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: gonna make them go up and down, and I'm gonna

1095
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,720
Speaker 1: make them do all those things that they find annoyed

1096
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: so I can get their hand skills right by the

1097
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: way to be able to UH to work at a

1098
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,240
Speaker 1: dinner in happy days and then transition to Mr Miyagi,

1099
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 1: one of the more versatile actors that we've seen. Hats

1100
00:50:56,960 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: off more. Uh, Marina, I got that right behind the glass. Yeah,

1101
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 1: we can go with that. We'll go with me a

1102
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,919
Speaker 1: great actor. Alright, are our prototypes at the position buck?

1103
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 1: When we're looking at edge rushers in this league, I

1104
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: know we've got the best pass rustaurant the league right

1105
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: now was actually an inside guy. Huh and Aaron Donald.

1106
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: But you're looking out there on the edge, Um, is

1107
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:23,040
Speaker 1: there somebody that comes to mind? I mean, I think

1108
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 1: it comes down to one or two guys, and I

1109
00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: think it's either Von Miller or Khalil Mack. And it

1110
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: kind of depends on packaging. Yeah, if your flavor is look,

1111
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,799
Speaker 1: I want an explosive edge rusher that has outstanding get off,

1112
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: outstanding athleticism, has all of what I would call the

1113
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 1: finesse moves that you want to see. The Von Miller's

1114
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 1: you guy. If you want a power based rusher, a

1115
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 1: guy that can really set it up with the bull

1116
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 1: rush and then use all of the power centric elements

1117
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 1: to get to the quarterback, I think it's Khalil Mack.

1118
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,960
Speaker 1: And so either way, it just depends on what your

1119
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: flavor is both of those guys are the prototypes of

1120
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,360
Speaker 1: the position. We've got some other great ones. I mean,

1121
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 1: we've seen Frank Clark to Marcus Lawrence, has seen Joe Bosa.

1122
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: Those are great players. Um, but I want to do

1123
00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 1: an exercise with you. Every time I think we're gonna

1124
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: agree on something, we don't. But I think I think

1125
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: I feel confident here. Okay, So and I like to

1126
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: do that imagery. Okay, So our our teams in the

1127
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, we we're on offense trying to score touchdown

1128
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 1: to win the game. It's third and eight. We got

1129
00:52:19,760 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: to get a first down to keep our championship hopes alive.

1130
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,359
Speaker 1: The one pass rush, don't say it yet, we'll say

1131
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: it on three. The one pass rusher that would scare

1132
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,200
Speaker 1: you more than anybody else in the Super in the

1133
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: Super Bowl, this one pass rusher, we don't want to

1134
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: see him, and I only want to say one guy.

1135
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 1: So on the count of three, will say who it is.

1136
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,040
Speaker 1: I think we're gonna say the same guy. Ready, all right?

1137
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: Three to one? Von Miller agreed because he was SUPERO

1138
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 1: m VP. I was like, that's why we need to

1139
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:50,680
Speaker 1: make sure that we've seen that specific wanted to make

1140
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:52,680
Speaker 1: sure that you said, but he puts it more. To me,

1141
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: he puts more fear and thinking from an offensive standpoint,

1142
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: I'd be more scared of von Miller than anything else. Yeah,

1143
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:59,920
Speaker 1: I think so, And I think the reason why is

1144
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: because of the speeding quickness is it's such a and

1145
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,840
Speaker 1: it sets up everything else it does because then what

1146
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: happens Then you get an offensive tackle who is overextended

1147
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 1: trying to get and he has all of those things

1148
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: that I will say because we have seen Khalil mac

1149
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: Win a Defensive Player of the Year award, great ability

1150
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: to come off the edge and use the speeding quickness,

1151
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 1: but really his game is about power. His game is

1152
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: about bullying you to the point of submission and so

1153
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,120
Speaker 1: dominant player. But in that scenario, I'm gonna go with

1154
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,680
Speaker 1: von Miller over Yeah, I'm with you, But look, you

1155
00:53:33,719 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 1: can't go wrong with all those other guys we mentioned.

1156
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: I just think in terms of the fear factor, I

1157
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: go von on that one as well. Alright, wrapping up here, buck,

1158
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 1: We've got episodes out there though if you haven't checked

1159
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: them out, on quarterbacks, running backs, receivers, tight end, it's

1160
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,319
Speaker 1: offensive line. We've got one more episode to come that's

1161
00:53:51,320 --> 00:53:54,479
Speaker 1: gonna be on Cornerbacks, which we've got some great guests.

1162
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 1: That conversation with Sean Springs, trust me, you're gonna tun

1163
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,279
Speaker 1: to that one to hear what he had to say.

1164
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: He was fantastic. Any other final takeaways before we get

1165
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: out of here. No, I think this is the outstanding

1166
00:54:02,920 --> 00:54:05,520
Speaker 1: series any aspiring scout or even a guy who was

1167
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:07,920
Speaker 1: scouting in the business now like I found it. I've

1168
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: learned so much from participating in this exercise and then

1169
00:54:11,800 --> 00:54:14,400
Speaker 1: listening back to these podcast episodes. I think you have

1170
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,919
Speaker 1: to kind of dig in and make sure you listen

1171
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,680
Speaker 1: to all the prototypes. We've covered it all. Quarterback, running back,

1172
00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 1: while receiver tight in office, the line there, we got

1173
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: the edge rusher, and the cornerback position. To come check

1174
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 1: it out. I think it's only gonna make you a

1175
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: better value. And you said check it out NFL dot

1176
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 1: com slash MTS prototype. If you've missed any of the episodes,

1177
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: you can find them all their one stop shop. Uh

1178
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: and do us a favorite? Pass those along, tweet those out.

1179
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: Let your buddies know. I think they'll get a kick

1180
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:40,400
Speaker 1: out of it as well. Um. By the way you

1181
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 1: are l. I mean, we can you get your own

1182
00:54:42,080 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 1: U R L on there for a series that's kind

1183
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: of a big deal, right, it's gonna be a big

1184
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: dude dot com slash mts prototype. Pretty cool, all right,

1185
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:50,839
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for us. He's Bucky Brooks. I'm

1186
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,880
Speaker 1: Daniel Jeremiah. Thanks for listening to Move the Sticks presented

1187
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 1: by New Era. Thanks for downloading Move the Sticks with

1188
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:02,919
Speaker 1: Daniel Jeremiah and Bucky. For more, go to NFL dot

1189
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: com slash Podcasts. Yeah.