1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody. It is Friday, November the twenty eighth, 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: and a man in Louisiana spent Thanksgiving at home with 3 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 1: family for the first time in thirty years. Where has 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: he been all that time? Death Row? And with that, 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and TJ. Roades. We 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,319 Speaker 1: have been covering a whole bunch of executions this year, 7 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: and this is a case for an argument for why 8 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 1: maybe some could say the death penalty should go away. 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: Yes, And this is one of a couple we've seen 10 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: this year where folks have or at least are on 11 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,160 Speaker 2: their way to being exonerated, but certainly having their death 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 2: sentences vacated. And this man, Jimmy Duncan, is now free 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: in the state of Louisiana. We nearly killed this man, 14 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: and when you start to read how he got convicted, 15 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,920 Speaker 2: it will make your blood boil and your heart will 16 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: go out to not only Jimmy Duncan, but the mother 17 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 2: of the young girl he was convicted of killing. 18 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,119 Speaker 1: And as we're saying all this though, the other side, 19 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: the prosecutors still think this dude should be in jail, yes, 20 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: and are still fighting there were fighting to keep him there. 21 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: But the judge said, you can go home while we 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: figure the rest of this out. But the judge essentially 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: saying no, from what I'm saying, it doesn't look like 24 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: there's a preponderance of evidence that you're going to be 25 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: found guilty, So why don't you just go home while 26 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: the review continues? This is thirty years this man has 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: been on death row and who knew Louisiana is notorious 28 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 1: for this exactly, So this is not the first time 29 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: we've seen something like this in Louisiana, for sure, But 30 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: this is a case Jimmy, how many years thirty. 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: Twenty seven years exactly? He was on death row. 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: Okay, so we've been doing these stories. That was another 33 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: one thirty seven, yes, thirty eight years on death row. 34 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: And maybe this is why we do all the reviews. 35 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: Maybe this is why it takes decades so we make 36 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: sure we get it right. But we were just about 37 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: to get through the wrong man. 38 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 2: And I'm telling you at his he had a we 39 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: had a bond hearing this week. Again. This was his 40 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: ex girlfriend from way back when the mother of the 41 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: twenty three month old little girl who died in her bathtub. 42 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: She said this about prosecutors on a microphone in open court. 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 2: The horror story that they put out and desecrated my 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: baby's memory makes me infuriated. 45 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, you're all these years you've been honoring 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: in some way or mourning your child based on a tragedy, 47 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,679 Speaker 1: based on a monster, based on this thing that happened. Yes, 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: that's a part of a memory you will have and 49 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: a part of how you continue to go about your life. 50 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: You would go about it differently if you thought your 51 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: child died in an accident versus was taken correct, murderer. 52 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: This is thirty years of these people's lives that they 53 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: say the prosecution, the government has taken from them. 54 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: Yes, and specifically too forensic scientists. This story is incredible 55 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: when you start to hear the details. So Jimmy was 56 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: convicted of first degree murder. This happened back in nineteen 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: ninety eight. Prosecutors said he raped and drowned twenty three 58 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: month old Hayley Olivo, that is the daughter of his 59 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 2: then girlfriend. Duncan maintained his innocence from the beginning. He 60 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:19,399 Speaker 2: claims that he briefly stepped away from this little girl 61 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: in the bathtub, and when he came back, he saw 62 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: that she had gone under. He says he gave her 63 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 2: CPR as much as he could, then ran to neighbors 64 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 2: to get help immediately. But what happened next was his 65 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 2: undoing in terms of prosecutors, detectives coming in and making 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: all sorts of assumptions when they took that little baby's 67 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: body in for an autopsy, and basically the expert testimony 68 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: at his trial. There were two forensic scientists, and we'll 69 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: get into these two people because they are notorious at 70 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:55,920 Speaker 2: this point now. But these experts were later linked to 71 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: at least ten wrongful convictions. But he was basically convicted 72 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: because they claimed there were bite marks on this little 73 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: girl's body. But there is video that had surfaced, a 74 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: recording of the autopsy that shows these one of the 75 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 2: two scientists forcibly pushing a mold of Duncan's teeth into 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: this little girl's body, creating the bite marks that they 77 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 2: then later used to convict him with. 78 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: Okay, this is where I get confused, because there's an 79 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: argument that this was some method that is used to 80 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: examine or match, if you will, bite marks. I don't 81 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: understand that at all. But the argument here what you 82 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: described there and as with this video, you're talking about 83 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: a man being framed for murder and ending up on 84 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: death row. That can't happen. 85 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: Correct, Correct, And speaking of these two, one of these 86 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: pathologists and forensic dentists, one of them has already since 87 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 2: passed away. But when I said ten wrongful convictions, I 88 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 2: read about this and it's just remarkable to see that 89 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: these two were and have been accused of doing this 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 2: in multiple in multiple cases, specifically in the South Louisiana, Mississippi. 91 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: Up these pairs testimony led to two Mississippi men serving 92 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:16,719 Speaker 2: and combined three decades in prison for rape and murder 93 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: a very similar situation, and DNA evidence later decades later 94 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: cleared them of the crime. So it was a rush 95 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 2: to try and pin a murder on someone and these 96 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: two men had been doing it for decades, and there 97 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: are so many cases attributed specifically to these two men. 98 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: And so the judge throughout this conviction. Twenty seven years later, 99 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 2: again this man was on death row. 100 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah he hasn't. I don't know how what the next 101 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: legal move is, but he has not been exonerated. This 102 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,720 Speaker 1: is a guy they could still try to go after. 103 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 1: At least they're saying they're trying to still go after it. 104 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: There's a lot of legal review. I thought it was interesting. 105 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 1: The judge must have felt strongly enough about it that 106 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: this is a guy who was still under investigation for 107 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: the murder of a child, at least according to the government, 108 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: according to prosecutors. And a judge said, as heinous as 109 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: that accusation sounds, the stuff in front of a judge 110 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,679 Speaker 1: made him feel strongly and that you know, a judge 111 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: doesn't want to hell. The judge wuldn't put ditty out. 112 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,839 Speaker 2: This is so rare that this would happen. 113 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: So a guy who has been accused of murdering a 114 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: twenty three month old A judge says, I'm okay with 115 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: him going home? 116 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: Correct? 117 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: Why you continue to figure this out? That's a pretty 118 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: strong indication of the case in front of him. 119 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 2: Yes, his exact wording was, the presumption is not great 120 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: that he is guilty. That is a powerful, powerful statement. 121 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 2: And Duncan's attorneys said that there is clear and convincing 122 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: evidence showing that mister Duncan is factually innocent. So you know, 123 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: you've got two powerful people here, and so yes, this 124 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 2: Louisiana Supreme Court is still reviewing his case because the 125 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 2: prosecutors are not letting this go. And look, we see 126 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: this happen. You have a conviction. And a lot of 127 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: these are elected officials in some of these positions attorney general, etc. 128 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: They don't want to admit fault. They don't want to 129 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: admit wrongdoing. They don't want to admit that they put 130 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 2: someone in or behind bars on death row for a 131 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 2: crime they didn't commit. Not just to save face, but 132 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 2: this is financially a situation for the state of Louisiana 133 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 2: as well, because, as you might imagine, if you have 134 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: spent all that time, lost most of your adult life 135 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 2: behind bars for a crime you didn't commit by a 136 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 2: state that the accusation is created false evidence to put 137 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 2: you there. You're talking about millions and millions and millions 138 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: of dollars in lawsuits and judgments against you. 139 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: Okay, fine, we got it wrong. I'm not going to 140 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: fight to save millions of dollars so I can keep 141 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: an innocent man in jail. That's just not what we 142 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: do now. It's human nature. We've seen this with plenty 143 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: of elected as elected officials and law enforcement. You don't 144 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: want to admit to that mistake. We've seen people go 145 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: to the grave swearing that Nope, that person is skilled, 146 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: see and that person ends up being exonerate. This happens, 147 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: and that's human nature. That's fine. We got to get 148 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: over and get past that when you talk about a 149 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: man's life. Yes, and this is not just time behind bars. 150 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: We the people, at least the people in Louisiana, decided 151 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: this man should die. So this is beyond just having 152 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: a guy in jail for a wrongful conviction. We're about to. 153 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 2: Kill a guy, yes, exactly, exactly. 154 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: We need to get this one right. 155 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: So what does this little girl's mother and what do 156 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: the defense and perhaps even the judge believe happened to 157 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 2: little Haley. Well, this is what actually we understand now. 158 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: Hailey died because she was sick. That is what her 159 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: mother told the court this week. And that is because 160 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: she had a history of seizures and just I believe 161 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: a few weeks earlier through some of those seizures had fallen. 162 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 2: She had hit her head. She had been in the 163 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 2: hospital with skull fractures. So this was a sick little girl. 164 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,720 Speaker 2: And according to her mother now and other medical professionals, 165 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: when you have a child who's prone to seizures, putting 166 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: them in a warm bath can actually trigger more seizures. 167 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 2: So it's very likely that when he stepped away, and 168 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: obviously we know we're never supposed to step away from 169 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 2: a child at a bathtub, it's likely she may have 170 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 2: had a seizure and drowned and had nothing to do 171 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,920 Speaker 2: with Duncan, And so her mother now believes that. But yes, 172 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,840 Speaker 2: to your point, you said this earlier, to know or 173 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 2: to believe that someone who you loved, who you brought 174 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 2: into your home, who was your boyfriend, to be told 175 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 2: that that person murdered your child, violated your child, and 176 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 2: to live with that, and then to find out that 177 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 2: that evidence wasn't true, that what prosecutors told this grieving 178 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 2: mother wasn't true. The anger you would feel on top 179 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 2: of the grief is beyond I. 180 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: Don't know if they have an option, and this has 181 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: happened in the past, but I feel like she should 182 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: have a right to sue. We've seen inmates get millions 183 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: of dollars for wrongful convictions. Man, this family should have 184 00:09:56,760 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: some kind of recourse. They should have some kind of 185 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: way to get back the past thirty years. If this 186 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: is the case, then they were victimized by the government. 187 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 2: Yes, and we obviously mentioned these two forensic scientists who 188 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 2: there's this video of them putting his dental mold onto 189 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 2: those little girl. The AP actually did a review almost 190 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 2: more than ten years ago about bite mark evidence. At 191 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 2: least two dozen wrongful convictions have happened because of this 192 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 2: way of I don't really understand it either, Babe, like 193 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 2: the way why they do this or how they use it. 194 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: But apparently the Innocence Project said bite mark evidence is 195 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: junk science. We've seen this in other wrongful conviction cases. 196 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: We've seen this in other inmates who have been free 197 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 2: just before their scheduled execution. But they're saying this is 198 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: junk science. They say there's no more prejudicial type of 199 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: junk science that exists than bite mark evidence. So their 200 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 2: question of the Innocence Project is actually because of this 201 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: case and others really trying to make an awareness campaign 202 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: about this, why it's allowed in courtroom still to this day, 203 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 2: given all the evidence we see of what it's led to, 204 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: which is wrongful commition. 205 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: Plenty of people who will point to this. I can 206 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: point to some episodes of Snapped and whatnot, and which absolutely, 207 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: the people have been convicted because they matched up bite marks. 208 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: So it's yes, I will listen to any expert, But 209 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: at the same time, I don't know what the balance 210 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,200 Speaker 1: is and what this method is they use between actual 211 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: science and I know that bite marks have absolutely been 212 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: used in cases. So what were they doing that was different? 213 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: I just saw the word use method, This method they 214 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: used as if something they were doing was at least 215 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: at the time, legit, and maybe we found out we 216 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: shouldn't be doing. I couldn't understand what they meant by 217 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: this method they used. It didn't sound like a method. 218 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: It sounded like a setup to me. 219 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was floored reading about this and into this, 220 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 2: And these are the types of cases that do bring 221 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: our attention to places where obviously we have some room 222 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: to grow in our judicial system, and certainly there are 223 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: a lot of folks who have paid the price for that. 224 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 2: When we come back, we're going to tell you you 225 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: mentioned this earlier in the episode about the state of Louisiana, 226 00:12:15,960 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: specifically their track record. It is one to pay attention 227 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: to and also will tell you what Duncan is going 228 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 2: to do now while he awaits that decision from the 229 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 2: Louisiana Supreme Court. Continuing our conversation about this latest case 230 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 2: out of Louisiana, where Jimmy Duncan, a man who spent 231 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 2: twenty seven years on death row, is now a freeman, 232 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 2: spent Thanksgiving with his family after he was convicted of 233 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 2: raping and murdering his then girlfriend's twenty three month old baby. 234 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,080 Speaker 2: There was a lot to unpack in this case, but 235 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: a judge felt very or that this was a situation 236 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 2: in which this man needed to be released while he 237 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 2: awaits whether or not he will be fully exonerated by 238 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: the Louisiana Supreme Corp. With this, judge vacated his conviction 239 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 2: and set him free again after nearly three decades on 240 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 2: death row. Listen to this. Since nineteen seventy three, more 241 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:22,559 Speaker 2: than two hundred people on death row have now been exonerated. 242 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: That is shocking, and in Louisiana, twelve people. It is 243 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: one of the highest wrongful conviction rates in the nation. 244 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 2: So that is something to pay attention to that we 245 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 2: are This isn't something we can reverse, This isn't something 246 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 2: we can say, sorry, we were wrong. When you're on 247 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 2: death row, there's no taking it back. If you have 248 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 2: an execution date, and we have certainly seen that happen posthumously, 249 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 2: which is incredibly It's tragic no matter what. But we 250 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 2: can't get it right once we've gotten it wrong. And 251 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 2: thank god, this man, Jimmy Duncan, was finely given some 252 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 2: sort of reprieve. 253 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Do you have a case, Do you have a case? 254 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of one. It would have been 255 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: pretty high profile in which we have proven that we 256 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: killed a guy who was innocent. 257 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,839 Speaker 2: Oh, there are cases I just haven't looked up. But yes, 258 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 2: we could do a whole podcast on that which we've. 259 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: Killed that have been proven after the fact to be innocent, 260 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: and that this country executed someone wrongly. Yeah, I mean, 261 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think. I cannot remember when I figured 262 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: it to be very high profile. We talk about the 263 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: two hundred whatnot that have been exagner right after being 264 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: on death row. Some might point to that as the 265 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: system working. Some might point to that, see, we got 266 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: it right before we made a mistake. Sure we might 267 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 1: have gotten it wrong initially, but all of these checks 268 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: and balances are in place, with all the appeals to 269 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: make sure we get it right. And look, we haven't 270 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: been killing people who are innocent. I'm saying the other 271 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: side could make that. 272 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:58,120 Speaker 2: Argument, of course, and certainly people have their strong opinions 273 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 2: about the death penalty and whether or not it's effective 274 00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 2: and whether or not it is just punishment. The problem 275 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 2: is we have an imperfect system and we don't have 276 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: the absolute facts always in cases, and this is exactly 277 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: an example of that, and will point to this. In Louisiana. 278 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: Just two weeks ago, we did an episode on this. 279 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 2: We had Calvin Duncan. He had been behind bars for decades. 280 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 2: He was not on death row, but he was convicted 281 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: of murder. He was exonerated and just won an election 282 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 2: to serve as the Clerk of Courts in New Orleans 283 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 2: in their criminal courts. So you can just see someone 284 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:38,240 Speaker 2: can go on to being behind bars for decades and 285 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 2: then actually serving our country in a beautiful way. So 286 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 2: they got it wrong then, and it looks like they 287 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: got it wrong on this one as well. So it's 288 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: just something to remember. Now. As far as Jimmy Duncan, 289 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 2: he plans to live with a relative in central Louisiana 290 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 2: and he is going. Can you imagine just waiting to 291 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: see if you have to go back. I mean, it's possible. 292 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 2: We don't know what the Supreme Court is going to 293 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 2: do in the state of Louisiana. He knows that it's 294 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: possible he could go back, and that's goind to just 295 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 2: be such an incredible situation mentally, after everything he's already 296 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: been through, you know. 297 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: But it feels good where he is right now. And 298 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: if I could tell him anything, man, stay in the 299 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: moment today. You got today, You're not behind bars, and 300 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: that's all, and that's really all you can do. The 301 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: suit the money he is about to go after from 302 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: these folks. If that is true that he literally was 303 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: framed for murder that put him on death row, everybody 304 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: should be in jail for that. 305 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, And we mentioned I totally agree and whatever. I 306 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: agree with that, And we mentioned about the bitemark forensic 307 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 2: science and it being junk science, and certainly the video 308 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: that shows them putting that dental mold onto the baby. 309 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: But also there was a pretty damning proof that they 310 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:01,080 Speaker 2: coerced a jailhouse, you know, a prison inmate to testify 311 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 2: against him, who then later recanted what he said and 312 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: said he was coerced by prosecutors to turn evidence against 313 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,720 Speaker 2: this man. So there was wrongdoing, it appears from start 314 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,440 Speaker 2: to finish in this man's case, and we certainly hope 315 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 2: Jimmy Duncan had a phenomenal Thanksgiving dinner. And again, I 316 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 2: feel confident with this because when the baby's own mother, 317 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 2: who believed her ex boyfriend did this to her daughter, 318 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 2: is now completely convinced of his innocence. That means something 319 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 2: to me and I'm sure it had an impact on 320 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 2: the judge as well. So we appreciate you listening to 321 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 2: us as always on this Friday. Thank you so much. 322 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,399 Speaker 2: I'm Amy Robock alongside TJ. 323 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: Holmes. 324 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: We hope you all have a wonderful weekend.