WEBVTT - Serial Killers on the American Frontier: "Big" and "Little" Harpe

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Criminalia, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership

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<v Speaker 1>with iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Herman Webster Mudget of New Hampshire, better known by the

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<v Speaker 2>alias H. H. Holmes, was responsible for anywhere from twenty

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<v Speaker 2>to two hundred killings before he was apprehended in eighteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety four. He admitted to twenty seven while in custody,

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<v Speaker 2>and is known as one of America's first serial killers,

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<v Speaker 2>but not the first. Welcome to Criminalia, I'm Maria Tremarky.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm Holly Frye. That title of first serial killer,

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<v Speaker 1>at least on record, belongs to a duo, the Harps.

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<v Speaker 1>Sometimes you'll see them listed as the Harp Brothers, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's a little complicated. Joshua Harper, known as Macaiah or

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<v Speaker 1>Big Harp, and William Harper, known as Wiley or Little Harp,

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<v Speaker 1>were born probably in seventeen sixty eight and seventeen seventy, respectively.

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<v Speaker 1>Big Harp was described as quote bony and muscular. He's

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<v Speaker 1>been called the brown to the smaller, red haired Little

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<v Speaker 1>Harps brains. But make no mistake, both of these men

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<v Speaker 1>shared a proclivity for carrying out unspeakable horrors. We know

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<v Speaker 1>that they're killing spree in the late seventeen hundreds spanned

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<v Speaker 1>a handful of states. We know they killed dozens and

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<v Speaker 1>dozens of people. Historian John Musgrave has said of them, quote,

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<v Speaker 1>the Harps were able to strike fear while they were living,

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<v Speaker 1>and then became the boogeyman for generations to come. This

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<v Speaker 1>may be be warned the most violent episode we have

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<v Speaker 1>ever yet had.

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<v Speaker 2>First, though, let's talk briefly about what experts know about

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<v Speaker 2>serial killers before we start talking about the story of

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<v Speaker 2>this pair. Researchers believe serial killers are most often driven

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<v Speaker 2>by a psychological thrill or or pleasure they get from

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<v Speaker 2>their actions. They often lack empathy and guilt, and many

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<v Speaker 2>are egocentric individuals, or at least become that way during

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<v Speaker 2>their killing spree. Big and Little Harp murdered for the thrill,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes set off by minors lights, but there was really

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<v Speaker 2>no rhyme or reason to it. They didn't consider monetary

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<v Speaker 2>gain when choosing victims. It was just bloodlust. Dating back

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<v Speaker 2>to ancient times, serial murderers have been chronicled around the world.

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<v Speaker 2>The Harps are not considered the world's first serial killers,

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<v Speaker 2>not even close, but they are the first documented American

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<v Speaker 2>serial killers. The two committed murder and other crimes indiscriminately,

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<v Speaker 2>mainly around the frontier town of Knoxville, but also in

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<v Speaker 2>other parts of East Tennessee, Illinois, and Kentucky.

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<v Speaker 1>Though there is documentation about this pair of serial killers,

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<v Speaker 1>historians have noted that there are still some difficut culties

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<v Speaker 1>differentiating between fact and legend when it comes to the Harps.

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<v Speaker 1>This happens often when you're relying on documents that are

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of years old. Sometimes it happens with documents that

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<v Speaker 1>are even just years old, and sometimes recollections written down

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<v Speaker 1>from oral history can be embellished. This problem is only

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<v Speaker 1>exacerbated when a person goes by more than one name.

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<v Speaker 1>We do know they were highwaymen and river pirates and

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<v Speaker 1>of course murderers who operated in the late seventeen hundreds.

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<v Speaker 1>Those are facts, and we will not get into all

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<v Speaker 1>of their exploits. We really can't. They were very, very busy.

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<v Speaker 1>But regardless, their story is a list of atrocities that

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<v Speaker 1>are frightful, inhumane, and truly the things of nightmares.

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<v Speaker 2>Not a lot that's fact is known about their childhood,

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<v Speaker 2>or family or background. Many consider them to have been cousins,

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<v Speaker 2>although they may have been brothers. It's believed that their

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<v Speaker 2>family were Scottish immigrants who had settled in Orange County,

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<v Speaker 2>North Carolina, around seventeen sixty, and that the family changed

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<v Speaker 2>its name from Harper to Harp. Though there's no definitive

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<v Speaker 2>explanation for that, a common explanation is the American Revolution

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<v Speaker 2>was about to spark. This was a time when the

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<v Speaker 2>United States was still the Thirteen Colonies, and the Harpers,

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<v Speaker 2>new to the Colonies, were Scots loyal to the British Crown,

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<v Speaker 2>but wanted to fit in with their patriot neighbors, so

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<v Speaker 2>Harper became Harp.

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<v Speaker 1>Another fuzzy fact from their childhood is that the Harps

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<v Speaker 1>may have watched as their parents were brutally tortured and

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<v Speaker 1>hanged for their loyalist affiliations. If that's true, that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of devastating personal tragedy could have helped put the orphaned

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<v Speaker 1>Harps on track for a haphazard life of butchery and depravity.

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<v Speaker 1>But to be clear, this isn't a fact that appears

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<v Speaker 1>in all of the documentation about them, so consider that

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<v Speaker 1>particular element of the story with a grain of salt.

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<v Speaker 2>The two left North Carolina, hoping to find work as

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<v Speaker 2>slave overseers. They didn't because the American Revolution interrupted their plans.

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<v Speaker 2>Like their parents did, the duo sided with the British,

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<v Speaker 2>but if we're being honest, they didn't really care about sides.

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<v Speaker 2>They were much more interested in violence than patriotic duty.

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<v Speaker 1>It said.

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<v Speaker 2>They spent most of their time raping, pillaging, and killing

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<v Speaker 2>during the War for American Independence, and they may have

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<v Speaker 2>spent some of that time actually fighting in a few battles.

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<v Speaker 1>Upon leaving the military, they joined with the Cherokee Chickamauga

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<v Speaker 1>village of Nikajack, located southwest of modern day Chattanooga, Tennessee.

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<v Speaker 1>During that time, the men raided settlements with the tribe

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<v Speaker 1>and also became good with and very fond of the Tomahawk.

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<v Speaker 1>After the British surrendered at Yorktown, the Cherokee continued to

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<v Speaker 1>war with those who identified as patriots. Big and Little

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<v Speaker 1>Harp had already left for East Tennessee, where they settled

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<v Speaker 1>alongside Beaver Creek, only about eight miles west of Knoxville.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, they farmed and slaughtered hogs for a living,

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<v Speaker 1>actually peacefully, which you'll soon come to find a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit hard to believe, but even so, it didn't last.

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<v Speaker 1>They began plundering hogs, sheep, horses, whatever they could grab

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<v Speaker 1>from their neighbors. Barnes mysteriously started to burn down after

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<v Speaker 1>a man named Edward Teal's horses were stolen from his

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<v Speaker 1>stable and angry posse of locals captured the Harps, but

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<v Speaker 1>the pair escaped while the captors tried to bring them

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<v Speaker 1>to the Knoxville jail. Here we're going to take a

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<v Speaker 1>break for a word from our sponsors, and when we're back,

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to start doing a deeper dive into their killings,

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<v Speaker 1>which frankly reads like a demon's to do list.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back to Criminalia. The Harps killing spree lasted for

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<v Speaker 2>roughly eighteen months. Let's talk about the hellish atrocities they raised.

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<v Speaker 1>The tale of horrors the Harps engaged in is really

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<v Speaker 1>just beginning in this story. Sometime before seventeen ninety four,

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<v Speaker 1>while living in Tennessee, they kidnapped two women, Maria Davidson

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<v Speaker 1>and Susan Wood. Susan was the daughter of Captain James

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<v Speaker 1>Wood of the United States Continental Army. Here's an aside.

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<v Speaker 1>During the American Revolution, the Harps took part in a

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<v Speaker 1>lawless Tory gang, and little Harp had been shot and

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<v Speaker 1>wounded by the captain for the attempted rape of a

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<v Speaker 1>young girl. Some accounts call these kidnappings of Maria and

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<v Speaker 1>Susan marriages, and that needs air quotes because there is

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely no evidence that these relationships were legally bound or

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<v Speaker 1>at all consented to you by the women. Let's be

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<v Speaker 1>very clear, they were captives. The men were violent and

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<v Speaker 1>abusive to Maria and Susan, and when any children were

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<v Speaker 1>born from these unions, those children were murdered.

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<v Speaker 2>It was in seventeen ninety eight when the Harps rampage

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<v Speaker 2>officially took off. The beginning of that eighteen month killing spree.

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<v Speaker 2>They became one of the most violent serial killing pairs

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<v Speaker 2>known to America still to this day. When they began

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<v Speaker 2>career murdering. It began in Knox County, and the community was,

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<v Speaker 2>as you may imagine, alarmed. One victim, maybe not their first,

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<v Speaker 2>but definitely an early victim who stood out was a

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<v Speaker 2>man named Johnson, who the Harps believed was trying to

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<v Speaker 2>force them out of town. In reality, everyone wanted them

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<v Speaker 2>out of town. The Harps killed Johnson carved his body open,

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<v Speaker 2>disemboweled him, and filled him with stones before they tossed

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<v Speaker 2>him into the nearby Holston River. Johnson was not the

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<v Speaker 2>only victim who met that fate.

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<v Speaker 1>John Musgrave has also stated of the pair, quote, I

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<v Speaker 1>think they realized early in they were not part of

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<v Speaker 1>the elect and decided if they were going to Hell,

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<v Speaker 1>they might as well make a grand entrance. The viciousness

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<v Speaker 1>of the all but civil war in the Carolinas during

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<v Speaker 1>the American Revolution didn't help, and certainly led them away

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<v Speaker 1>to the wilderness and the less than civilized norms they

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<v Speaker 1>lived over the next couple of decades.

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<v Speaker 2>After killing two more men, they trekked through Tennessee and

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<v Speaker 2>traveled north to Kentucky through the Cumberland Gap, the point

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<v Speaker 2>in the Cumberland Mountains where Tennessee, Kentucky, and Virginia all meet.

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<v Speaker 2>There they killed two more men from Maryland who were

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<v Speaker 2>traveling in the opposite direction. Graphic accounts of these killings

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<v Speaker 2>suggest Big Harp used his tomahawk skills to split open

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<v Speaker 2>the head of one of the victims. Another of the

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<v Speaker 2>murders involved a young man named John Langford, who was

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<v Speaker 2>traveling alone in the wilderness with a purse full of silver.

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<v Speaker 2>His body was discovered as Johnson's was disemboweled and filled

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<v Speaker 2>with stones, a manner that would become kind of a

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<v Speaker 2>favorite technique for the pair. On April twenty second, seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety nine, the Kentucky governor issued a three hundred dollars

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<v Speaker 2>reward on each of the Harps.

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<v Speaker 1>In December that year, the men and the women that

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<v Speaker 1>they had kidnapped as their wives were captured for those

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<v Speaker 1>murders after a local innkeeper fingered them, and they were

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<v Speaker 1>jailed in Danville, Kentucky. Two months into their incarceration, the

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<v Speaker 1>men escaped and in doing so left the women behind,

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<v Speaker 1>each of whom was pregnant. The women were acquitted of

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<v Speaker 1>the Harp's crimes. The son of the innkeeper who identified

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<v Speaker 1>them was found dead.

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<v Speaker 2>The men kept moving into less populated areas. Little Harp

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<v Speaker 2>married a minister's daughter named Sarah Rice, Well maybe married.

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<v Speaker 2>Big Harp kidnapped two sisters for himself, Susan and Betsy Roberts,

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<v Speaker 2>as his own to abuse, terrorize, and impregnate, Similar to

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<v Speaker 2>Davidson and Wood before them, The women were beaten and

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<v Speaker 2>forced to remain with Big against their will. It's unclear

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<v Speaker 2>if Little's wife, Sarah knew what she was getting into,

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<v Speaker 2>or if this had actually been a kidnapping and not

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<v Speaker 2>a marriage. And also, like in Davidson and Wood's situation,

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<v Speaker 2>most if not all, of the newborns produced through these

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<v Speaker 2>relationships were killed. For instance, at a camp a few

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<v Speaker 2>miles northeast of Russellville, Kentucky, it's well reported that Big

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<v Speaker 2>Harp smashed his infant daughter's head into a tree because

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<v Speaker 2>she was crying. Some later accounts suggest it was the

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<v Speaker 2>only time he admitted he regretted a murder, but most

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<v Speaker 2>do not believe that is a fact. When a man

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<v Speaker 2>named Moses DAWs, who may or may not have traveled

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<v Speaker 2>with them, showed concern for the brutalized women, he too

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<v Speaker 2>was murdered.

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<v Speaker 1>Historian John Musgrave, who we mentioned earlier, theorized that quote

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<v Speaker 1>the Harp wives were brutalized, battered women trying to survive

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<v Speaker 1>and protect whatever children they could. During the early part

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<v Speaker 1>of seventeen ninety nine, when the Harps were barely midway

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<v Speaker 1>into their killing spree, all three were pregnant or had

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<v Speaker 1>just given birth. They had no way to survive apart

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<v Speaker 1>from the men not in the wilderness when caring for

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<v Speaker 1>infant children. That's even if they thought they could get

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<v Speaker 1>away without being tracked down and killed by their husbands.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we're going to take a break for a word

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<v Speaker 2>from our sponsors. The Harps terrorized the American frontier, killing

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<v Speaker 2>aimlessly as they traveled. We have more atrocities to talk

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<v Speaker 2>about when we return.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Criminalia, where we sadly have many more

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<v Speaker 1>bodies to talk about. The light at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the tunnel will also talk about the deaths of the Harps.

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<v Speaker 2>Big and Little Harp still each had a three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>dollars bounty on each of his head. Next, they made

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<v Speaker 2>their way to a river pirate gang. Samuel Mason's gang's

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<v Speaker 2>notorious Caven Rock stronghold was in Illinois, and while en

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<v Speaker 2>route to it, the Harps, to no one's surprise, continued

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<v Speaker 2>their killing spree. Numerous people died, including women and children.

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<v Speaker 2>Once they met up with Mason's River Pirates, a gang

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<v Speaker 2>in the lucrative business of raiding merchant flatboats on the

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<v Speaker 2>Ohio River, they were welcomed, but not for long. Even

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<v Speaker 2>those who chose a pirate's life, which could often be violent,

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't handle the bloodlust of the Harps. The end came

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<v Speaker 2>when the men got into the habit of stripping victims naked,

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<v Speaker 2>tying them to a blindfolded horse, and then running that

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<v Speaker 2>horse off the top of a nearby bluff. In May

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<v Speaker 2>of seventeen ninety nine, not long after they had arrived,

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<v Speaker 2>the Harps, including their captive women, were forced to leave

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<v Speaker 2>the pirate stronghold because of their horrific behavior.

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<v Speaker 1>The Harps, as we see, never put but then would

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<v Speaker 1>you if you were driven to kill all humans? They

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<v Speaker 1>and their captive women walked hundreds of miles through rural

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<v Speaker 1>Kentucky and Tennessee on the way of course, adding to

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<v Speaker 1>their kill list. In their wake. They left William Ballard's

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<v Speaker 1>disemboweled corpse drifting in the Holston River. James Brassel was

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<v Speaker 1>discovered with his throat violently hacked open. In south central Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 1>John Graves and his teenage son were found dead. Their

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:36.359
<v Speaker 1>heads had been axed. While passing through Logan County, Kentucky.

0:15:36.760 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 1>The pair murdered a young enslaved girl and a family

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.320
<v Speaker 1>while they slept at their camp. They killed a farmer

0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 1>named Bradbury. They killed a man named Hardin, and they

0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:51.000
<v Speaker 1>killed a boy named Coffee. Another man named John Tully

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.120
<v Speaker 1>was also found murdered of.

0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:58.760
<v Speaker 2>The Harp's travels. Musgrave has also noted quote the near

0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>wilderness front tier west of the Appalachians and the sparsity

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>of settlements allowed the Harps maximum freedom to commit their deprivations.

0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:13.600
<v Speaker 2>Kentucky and Tennessee were states young but at least formally organized,

0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.920
<v Speaker 2>but when they crossed north of the Ohio River at

0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Cavan Rock, they were in the old Northwest Territory, where

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 2>the nearest law man was more than one hundred miles away.

0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Seeking shelter, that August, the Harps stayed overnight at a

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:31.520
<v Speaker 1>farmstead in Webster County, Kentucky, at the invitation of a

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Missus Stegall, who was being kind to those passing through,

0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.680
<v Speaker 1>and for her kindness, the men slit the throat of

0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:42.960
<v Speaker 1>her four month old baby boy when he cried, and

0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:46.600
<v Speaker 1>when she discovered the baby's body, they killed her too.

0:16:46.680 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 1>They killed another overnight guest named Major William Love. Missus

0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Stegall's husband, Moses, who had been away during the murder

0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 1>of his wife and infant son, set out to kill

0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the Harps as soon as he returned.

0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.879
<v Speaker 2>They were preparing to kill another local Kentucky settler, George Smith,

0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.560
<v Speaker 2>when they were found by a local posse on August

0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:12.120
<v Speaker 2>twenty fourth, seventeen ninety nine. The men called for their surrender,

0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.119
<v Speaker 2>but that did not happen. The Harps fled on horseback.

0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Big Harp was shot in the leg and the back,

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.520
<v Speaker 2>making it easier for those hunting him to catch up

0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.320
<v Speaker 2>with him. As he lay dying on the ground, he

0:17:25.400 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 2>confessed to twenty murders, and then Moses Stegau, looking for

0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>vengeance and part of the posse searching for him, took

0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:39.359
<v Speaker 2>his blade and slowly sawed off BIG's head, described with

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.199
<v Speaker 2>very gory detail that he started at the back of

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.560
<v Speaker 2>the neck while Big was still conscious. Later, Big was

0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.880
<v Speaker 2>hanged on a pole near Henderson, Kentucky, at a crossroads

0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:55.120
<v Speaker 2>where for years the remaining pole was called Harp's Head.

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.320
<v Speaker 1>And Little Harp. He escaped and rejoined Samuel Mason's gang

0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:02.960
<v Speaker 1>of pirates at Cavan Rock and for four years used

0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.359
<v Speaker 1>the alias of John Sutton. During this time, a sizeable

0:18:07.520 --> 0:18:10.760
<v Speaker 1>reward was placed on Mason's head, and Harp, with a

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:15.119
<v Speaker 1>pirate named James May, killed him for the money. But

0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:20.000
<v Speaker 1>as they presented the head to authorities, they were arrested.

0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.439
<v Speaker 1>If Harp thought that he wouldn't be recognized, he was

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 1>gravely mistaken. Both men actually escaped, but their luck had

0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 1>run out. They were recaptured, tried, and then sentenced to

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.960
<v Speaker 1>be executed by hanging. In January of eighteen oh four,

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.159
<v Speaker 1>Little Harp was executed. His head was cut off and

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 1>placed on a stake along the Natchez Road a warning

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.520
<v Speaker 1>to other outlaws. Big Harp may have confessed to twenty

0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.080
<v Speaker 1>murders as he was dying, but historians believe the Harps

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:57.960
<v Speaker 1>killed at least forty men, women and children, and very

0:18:58.119 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 1>likely more than that.

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:04.760
<v Speaker 2>In hindsight, for many historians, the Harp's capture was inevitable,

0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.920
<v Speaker 2>and that's because they never had a motive just to

0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.800
<v Speaker 2>desire or impulse to kill any other person who they

0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.840
<v Speaker 2>happened to come across. John Musgrave has stated he never

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:19.240
<v Speaker 2>quote thought the Harps had an endgame other than to

0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.800
<v Speaker 2>stay alive as long as they could. According to judge

0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:24.920
<v Speaker 2>James Hall, who was one of the first to write

0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.880
<v Speaker 2>about the Harps in the eighteen twenties, there were two

0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.919
<v Speaker 2>types of men on the frontier. The first was the

0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.320
<v Speaker 2>noble pioneer seeking to do right by his family and God.

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.720
<v Speaker 2>The second wasn't looking to advance civilization. He was trying

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:42.280
<v Speaker 2>to escape it. They were men, as Haul put it,

0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:47.080
<v Speaker 2>with a blunt perception of virtue, which is a very

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:48.720
<v Speaker 2>polite way to put that.

0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the thought of the word virtue in a sentence

0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.480
<v Speaker 1>anywhere near the Harps feels a little bit weird, feels wrong.

0:19:56.880 --> 0:20:00.680
<v Speaker 1>It's wrong. This is not as st with a lot

0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.320
<v Speaker 1>of things that inspire me to be creative. However, we

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 1>have rules, so I tried to pick out things that

0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:10.600
<v Speaker 1>seemed like they might be a good fit. And this

0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:14.680
<v Speaker 1>is another one where I turned to a popular spirit

0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>of the seventeen hundreds, which is brandy. So that's going

0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.560
<v Speaker 1>to be in it, mm hmm. But then we have

0:20:20.600 --> 0:20:24.320
<v Speaker 1>some other things. So this one starts out with an

0:20:24.359 --> 0:20:28.760
<v Speaker 1>ounce of brandy, an ounce of London dry gin, and

0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:34.640
<v Speaker 1>we're including that as a reference to the Harper family

0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:39.439
<v Speaker 1>alliance to the royal crown. Yes, and then you're going

0:20:39.520 --> 0:20:42.760
<v Speaker 1>to add an ounce of crem Denia, which we've used

0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:45.119
<v Speaker 1>I think once before on this show, I believe, but

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.360
<v Speaker 1>it's been a minute. It's a liqueur it has kind

0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.720
<v Speaker 1>of a sweet almondy flavor.

0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I feel it's been a few minutes.

0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 1>It has that. So if you bought it a couple

0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.840
<v Speaker 1>of seasons ago, bring out that bottle. Let's start, and

0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.320
<v Speaker 1>then you're going to do two dashes of grapefruit bitters

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.520
<v Speaker 1>and you're gonna combine all of this and you're shaking

0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.240
<v Speaker 1>tin with ice, give it a good shake, and then

0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 1>you will strain it into your cocktail glass. This is

0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:16.160
<v Speaker 1>a weird one because it's like booze on booze on booze,

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.280
<v Speaker 1>and yet it does not taste all that boozy, and

0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:23.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why, but it doesn't. Sometimes that happens,

0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:27.440
<v Speaker 1>and it's dangerous because since it doesn't taste all that boozy,

0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:29.960
<v Speaker 1>you can really throw it back and then you're like, wow,

0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.160
<v Speaker 1>I just had a lot of alcohol. So yes, as

0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.000
<v Speaker 1>always drink responsibly, but particularly if you make one of these,

0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:40.920
<v Speaker 1>like don't chug a bunch. To make the mocktail version

0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.400
<v Speaker 1>of this instead of brandy, you are going to steep

0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.280
<v Speaker 1>some low sugar white grape juice with Earl Gray tea

0:21:48.440 --> 0:21:51.959
<v Speaker 1>for a little while, and then I would do that

0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.720
<v Speaker 1>like a four ounce with one tea bag and then

0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.480
<v Speaker 1>you're obviously gonna have leftovers, so you can either make

0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.440
<v Speaker 1>more or you can use that in something else. Actually,

0:22:01.520 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I like infused white grape juice that has a tea flavor,

0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 1>just with like a little bit of ginger ell or clips. Like,

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.679
<v Speaker 1>it's just a nice quick way to make a little bevy.

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:14.840
<v Speaker 1>So you're gonna use an ounce of that infused white

0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.440
<v Speaker 1>grape juice, You're gonna use an ounce of flat tonic,

0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.960
<v Speaker 1>and then in lieu of the kremdon noio. I would

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.879
<v Speaker 1>only do a half ounce of almonds syrup because otherwise

0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:29.040
<v Speaker 1>I think it gets too sweet. So you might want

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>to up the the grape juice and the gin a

0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:37.080
<v Speaker 1>little bit, but not too much. If you do absolutely

0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.359
<v Speaker 1>zero alcoholic content to the point that bitters are not cool.

0:22:41.359 --> 0:22:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Just a few drops of grapefruit juice and like maybe

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.560
<v Speaker 1>a little saline or just throw some salt in. We'll

0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:49.399
<v Speaker 1>do you just fine here, So same deal, Shake it

0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.080
<v Speaker 1>with ice, pour it over, pour it into a chilled

0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:56.119
<v Speaker 1>cocktail glass, and you have a mocktail. And we're calling

0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:00.520
<v Speaker 1>this one discordant harp because I kept thinking out the

0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.160
<v Speaker 1>idea of harp as an instrument that would normally make

0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:06.160
<v Speaker 1>beautiful music instead of all of this murder.

0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.240
<v Speaker 2>It's a horrible nightmare music.

0:23:08.760 --> 0:23:12.439
<v Speaker 1>That's the discordant part. I hope if you try this

0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:16.080
<v Speaker 1>you love it. I really really like this drink. Actually,

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 1>it surprised me how much I liked it.

0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.400
<v Speaker 2>I really like when grapefruit shows up in drinks, even

0:23:21.480 --> 0:23:24.639
<v Speaker 2>in small amounts. You know, I'm a big fan.

0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.399
<v Speaker 1>Here's the oddity. I don't love a grapefruit to eat,

0:23:30.240 --> 0:23:34.480
<v Speaker 1>but I will drink grapefruit soda. You all use the bitterers.

0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.280
<v Speaker 1>I have a grapefruit liqueur that I love. I don't

0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:40.479
<v Speaker 1>know what that's about, but there you go. I have

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.960
<v Speaker 1>like regular grapefruit juice. I'm like hard pass, but somehow

0:23:45.000 --> 0:23:46.760
<v Speaker 1>in other forms totally down.

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:48.200
<v Speaker 2>It was friends.

0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>It has to it needs friends, for sure. You're one

0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:54.480
<v Speaker 1>hundred percent accurate there. So that is the discordant harp.

0:23:54.560 --> 0:23:56.280
<v Speaker 1>And if you make it, I hope you love it.

0:23:56.800 --> 0:23:58.959
<v Speaker 1>We sure love that you spend this time with us

0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 1>listening to stories that are in this case not all

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.760
<v Speaker 1>that delightful in terms of their content, but hopefully you

0:24:04.880 --> 0:24:07.560
<v Speaker 1>learn something. And now you know that there have been

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:11.520
<v Speaker 1>terrible people around as long as we've had a country

0:24:11.600 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 1>and way before that as well, forever. But we will

0:24:14.320 --> 0:24:17.280
<v Speaker 1>be right back here next week with another story and

0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:19.399
<v Speaker 1>some more drinks, and we hope you will join us

0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 1>for that. Criminalia is a production of Shondaland Audio in

0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:46.560
<v Speaker 1>partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, please

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.200
<v Speaker 1>visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

0:24:50.240 --> 0:24:51.280
<v Speaker 1>to your favorite shows.