1 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Steph. 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: I never told you a production of I Heart Radio. Today, 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: we are once again joined by our good friend and 4 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: colleague Bridget Todd. Hello, Bridget, Hello, I'm so excited to 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: be here again. Yes, always a pleasure to have you. 6 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 1: And Wow, I think we recorded in early December was 7 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: the last time we met up in this virtual podcasting space. 8 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: And a lot has happened since. A lot has happened. 9 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: Doesn't that feel like it was years ago? It really does. 10 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: It feels so far. And I feels like I have 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: slept a minia nights. There's been a mini a moon 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: set of things have happened. I feel like I've already 13 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: aged ten years. Yeah, so there's a lot like I 14 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: feel like it's it was a lot, yes, And so 15 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: we wanted to ask you because the topic you're bringing 16 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: us today is related both to past topics you've talked about, 17 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: but also too what happened in the capital of the 18 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: violence at the Capitol, and since you're in Washington, d C. 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: We wanted to ask you about it. What was that like? 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: Thank you for asking. It was very odd, as you 21 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: might imagine. So when I woke up on January six, 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 1: before I went to bed, I had been watching the 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: numbers come in from the Georgia Senate runoffs, and I 24 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: was feeling very good. I put on my lucky shirt 25 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: that has a shirtly Chisholm look quote on it, and 26 00:01:35,160 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: so like you know, I woke up beaming. I remember 27 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: waking up like good morning. I was so excited, and 28 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: I think it was because I had not felt that 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of hope and a long time. So I was 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: like feeling very very hopeful that morning, and it was 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: like a like a power and a hope that I 32 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: had not felt in I guess the last four years. 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: And how quickly that feeling of hopefulness turned in to 34 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: just powerlessness as I watched, you know, this insurrection happened, 35 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: and I think that like I was watching, it happened 36 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: on television kind of in real time, and so it 37 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: really got so dark and so serious. So quickly it 38 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: went from of course, there's just gonna be these Trump supporters, 39 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, standing outside the Capitol protesting sure to like, 40 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is bad. You know, we got 41 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: you know those things that you get on your phone 42 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: and there's an amber alert, those like things on your phone. 43 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: We everybody who was in my household got one of 44 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 1: those at the same time from the mayor of DC 45 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: saying that there was a state of emergency order, there 46 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: was a curfew, we couldn't go out. It happened very quickly. 47 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, when I watched it, I'm always making this point, 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: but DC is my home. I was raised here, this 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: is my community. I've lived here. This is like what 50 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: I consider home. And I think that because it's where 51 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: so much of our federal government stuff happens and where 52 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 1: the you know, the capital is, people forget that just 53 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: regular folks live here, Like this is where people live. 54 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: And so I was really heartbroken by thinking about this 55 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: as not just an attack on our democracy and on 56 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: our capitol, but also on my community. You know, d 57 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: C is largely black and brown, and so when these 58 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: people were storming the capitol, I saw videos where after 59 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: they were storming the capitol, where did they go, Oh, 60 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:22,519 Speaker 1: to our restaurants, to our hotels, to our institutions, And 61 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: just the idea that these people would be kind of 62 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: unleashed on my community really hurt. And so, you know, 63 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: I always just got to like make sure that that 64 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: point gets included that it's not just lawmakers who live 65 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: in d C. It's real people, some of which who 66 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 1: have no connection to the government, and so it was 67 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: not just an attack on our democracy and our capital 68 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: was also attack on these people are our home, you know. Yeah, remember, 69 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: because we were all watching closely and knowing that you 70 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: were my one of my connections in DC, definitely like 71 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: follow you on Twitter. You actually mentioned like, hey, thanks 72 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 1: a lot for bringing in the corona, like not wearing 73 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: a mask and infecting our city and we were trying 74 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: to control it, and you just made the bigger disaster 75 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: because they were not only in your community, at your restaurants, 76 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: at your hotels, at your places of service, as if 77 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: this was a free for all, as if nothing were happening, 78 00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: and of course no one was arrested, so therefore they 79 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: were just out and about doing their thing. I just 80 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: saw a report saying like a thirty something in Capital 81 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: police officers tested positives for corona just recently. But yeah, 82 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: I saw you tweeting that. I was like, oh my god, 83 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: she's so right. I didn't even think of that that 84 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: part because I'm just looking at the violence. The holy 85 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: crap is a pandemic y'all, it's a pandemic, and it's like, 86 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: we just don't need this, and it totally I think 87 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: that residents of DC have been pretty compliant when it 88 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: comes to socially distancing and masking and all that kind 89 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: of stuff, but just we have enough stuff going on 90 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: as a city, you know, on top of the pandemic 91 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 1: and everything else. This is just like one more big 92 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 1: thing that we don't need. And I think it's also 93 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 1: really hard the fact that d C is not really 94 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: a state. I think that people just forget, like people 95 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: don't understand that we don't have the same kind of 96 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: protections or support that states have because we're not a state. 97 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: And so you know, when the mayor was trying to 98 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: get the National Guard to come in, that was delayed 99 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: because she said, a mayor, she doesn't have that authority, 100 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: and so she had to get special permission. You know. 101 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: I think it really illustrated to me how important it 102 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 1: is that DC becomes a state at some point, because 103 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: it just doesn't work. And yeah, every other place right 104 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: now is being ravaged by the pandemic as is DC, 105 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: and yeah, it just doesn't help. We didn't need this. 106 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 1: We're already having a tough time, the realities of when 107 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: people decided to do stupid things exactly. Yeah, and so 108 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: glad you're okay. And in the wake of all of this, 109 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: there's of course been a lot of looking into what 110 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,719 Speaker 1: happened and what led up to it and the people 111 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: that were there. And I just remember so clearly you've 112 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,320 Speaker 1: come on here and spoken a lot about disinformation and misinformation, 113 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: and you said, like, people forget that these online things 114 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 1: have real world consequences, and this was like one of 115 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: the most I couldn't think of a better example. And 116 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 1: we were also been talking about women and Q and 117 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: On and this very specific kind of like fear around children. 118 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 1: And one of the things you wanted to talk about 119 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: today is the anti abortion movement and how that was 120 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: a part of this whole thing of what happened at 121 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: the Capitol. Right. Absolutely, I'm grateful that folks like yourself 122 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 1: are continuing to pull apart all the different aspects of 123 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: how we got here, whether it's Q and On targeting 124 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: women who are concerned about children, and so I think 125 00:06:33,400 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: that the connection between the violence that we saw at 126 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: the capital and the anti abortion movement is just one 127 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 1: more of those kind of nuggets that I think we should, 128 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: you know, not ignore, because there are so many different 129 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: aspects that got us to January six at the Capitol, 130 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: and I think that we should be talking about all 131 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: of them. And I think some of them are easier 132 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: to go sort of overlooked or a race, and I 133 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: think the connections to the anti abortion movement is one 134 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: of them. And so I really have to start by 135 00:06:57,760 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: shouting out a couple of people. There is a great 136 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: piece by Lauren Rankin and Refinery twenty nine called how 137 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: anti abortion terrorism field the MAGA attack on the Capitol 138 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: really great? Peace cannot recommend it enough. And then another 139 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: investigation by Carter Sherman at Vice called anti abortion activists 140 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: were all over the Capital riots. So a lot of 141 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: the information that I have found have come from those 142 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: two pieces. And I also just have to shout out 143 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: my friend Renny Bracy Sherman of the organization We Testify. 144 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: We Testifies an organization that tries to increase representation for 145 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: people who had abortions, and so they were doing a 146 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of that work of saying, oh, hey, some of 147 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: the people who were at the Capitol, they are very 148 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: known to you know, abortion providers and abortion activists, and 149 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: so I really just have to shout out the people 150 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: who are doing the work to make sure that that 151 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 1: conversation s would have we get to have it, and 152 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 1: that we don't let stigma or whatever keep us from 153 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: having this conversation that can really help us understand how 154 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: we got to the insurrection on the six. And then yeah, 155 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: also just the fact that last week was the forty 156 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 1: eight anniversary of Row versus Wade, you know, the landmark 157 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision legalized abortion in the US, and so 158 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: on that day, I really was sitting with the fact 159 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: that the same kind of tactics that abortion advocates have 160 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: been warning about and screaming about and you know, pointing 161 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: to for the longest time, those are the same tactics 162 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: that got us to January six with these people all 163 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: storming the capital. I think they're very, very similar, and 164 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: they have a lot of overlap. Can you break down 165 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: this information that led up to this one, but also 166 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: some of that overlap, because this isn't like a new 167 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: occurrence violence within anti abortion movements. Absolutely, it is not 168 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: a new occurrence. So just like the insurrection was kind 169 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 1: of fueled by what they're now calling the Big lie 170 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: that Trump won the election and that it was being 171 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: stolen from him. The anti abortion movement has similarly trafficked 172 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: in just straight lies about abortion, about people who have them, 173 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: about abortion providers, and I think it really illustrates what 174 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: happens when those lines go more or less unchallenged. And so, 175 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 1: you know, when putting the other my information of this episode, 176 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:05,239 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, yeah, some abortion disinformation and misinformation 177 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: and in accuracies are so common that you don't even 178 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:10,520 Speaker 1: really think about it anymore. And actually, just last week, 179 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: the University of California Berkeley School of Public Health put 180 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: out a study that found that four of the five 181 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: most presented web pages in response to a search for 182 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: abortion pill on Google were less than accurate. Right. And 183 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: so just the idea that on our biggest search engine, 184 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 1: when you Google for information about abortion, it is likely 185 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: that information is a lie, is not true, and it's 186 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: like misleading, right. And so I think that a big 187 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: thing to point out here is what happens when fabrications 188 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 1: are just tolerated. That that's just like the state of 189 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 1: play when it comes to misinformation. And I think also 190 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: when you look at, you know, the lead up to 191 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: the election, we saw so much inaccurate information being flooded 192 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: on social media about Biden and Harris and their positions 193 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: on abortion. And the thing that's like really sad, but 194 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: also shows how savvy these disinformers can be, is that 195 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 1: disinformers know that there is a lack of good news 196 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: and media sources that are in Spanish, and so they 197 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: then fill that gap with inaccurate information that is in Spanish. 198 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 1: And so you saw the Latin X community being really 199 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: targeted and inundated by inaccurate, distorted information about abortion meant 200 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: to impact the outcome of the election. And so another 201 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: point is that these often are happening in what's App 202 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 1: groups that are private, so like unlike Facebook where you 203 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: can kind of get a sense of like what's happening, 204 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: or Twitter, where it's happening mostly in public. It's a 205 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: close platform to have, you know, your private what's App 206 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,560 Speaker 1: group with your aunts and uncles and cousins, right, And 207 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: so we saw lots of really horrific anti abortion messaging 208 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: targeting the Latin X community in Spanish speaking communities on 209 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: these platforms. And so yeah, I think that much like 210 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 1: with the insurrection, when you have just an accepted baseline 211 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: of inaccurate information about people who have abortions, about abortion providers, 212 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: about underrepresented our marginalized communities. It can actually translate to 213 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: real world violence, real world danger, real world threats. This 214 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: is not something that this is happening online. Researchers have 215 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 1: been very clear about that. You know, one of the 216 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: things that I just read and we just know that 217 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,959 Speaker 1: happened in Kentucky is they passed the born alive abortion ban, 218 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: which is nothing more than a political statement trying to 219 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: do some fearmongering saying this is what's happening, this is 220 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,200 Speaker 1: what the Democrats are doing. You see, they're killing the 221 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: babies after they're born, which is absolutely false. But then 222 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,559 Speaker 1: we have a narrative where they actually put it into law, 223 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 1: so it seems like it's real because like here's in 224 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: a moment, that's attitude state law. We have to address 225 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: it as making it illegal because it's happening so much, 226 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: which is a part of that misinformation that is being 227 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: thrown out there. But it's so scary, and which is 228 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: also why this back and forth about this unity and 229 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: letting people go because you know, they didn't know what 230 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: they were doing. Trump told them to do it all this, 231 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: it's this level of giving some kind of meat to 232 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: this rumor which is completely unfounded, but because it's a 233 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:24,559 Speaker 1: political move it's so scary to see because once again, 234 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: here we go with this misinformation, not just being a rumor, 235 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: not just being an outright lie, which obviously people are 236 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: believing anyway. How do you see with all of that, 237 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,440 Speaker 1: with that type of strategy, with that type of fear 238 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: mongering that's actually a part of our government structure, how 239 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: do you see that bleeding into things like these riots? 240 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, it's so incredibly frustrating, Like what you 241 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: just described. I have worked in the feminist movement and 242 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, spaces like that for most of my adult life, 243 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,560 Speaker 1: and it's not new, but it is sure. It's frustrating, 244 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: you know, when we spend actual resources and time and 245 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 1: energy on things that are not true. Things are just 246 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: like fabrications, And I I understand the sentiment. You know. 247 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: A good example is when Project Veritas put out those 248 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: videos purporting to show Planned Parenthood staffers talking about selling 249 00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: body parts and this and that. That was a fabrication, 250 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: but yet we still had to spend time and resources 251 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: combating something that was a lie. And I think that 252 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: you're exactly right that, yes, it's annoying that like taxpayer 253 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 1: money and resources gets spent on making laws or legislation 254 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: about things that just aren't happening. But even more than that, 255 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: it's like it takes up so much oxygen in the room, 256 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 1: Like what meaningful policies could we be discussing or getting past? 257 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: What kind of progress are we not able to get 258 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: to because we were too busy spitting in a circle 259 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 1: about something that was a lie. So I think that 260 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: as much as what you just described is horrible, it's 261 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: also just it's such a waste because it just takes 262 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: up so much in ergy. People have to spend their 263 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: time combating against things that are just lies. And I 264 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: think that we really have to get to a place 265 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: in this country where I'm not gonna say it started 266 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: with Trump, but he certainly didn't help. I feel we've 267 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: gotten to a place where people don't understand that there's 268 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: lies and there's true and you can have your opinion. 269 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:18,760 Speaker 1: There are things where you're like, oh, well, I'm not 270 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 1: so sure, of course, but at the end of the day, 271 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: some things are just live. But we have a lot 272 00:14:23,560 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: facing us as a country we don't have time or 273 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: resources to spend on things that are just lies, and 274 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: we got to get back to a place where we 275 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: can all agree like some things are just not true 276 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: and not worth taking the oxygen out of the room 277 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: to combat them, you know what I mean. So with that, 278 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: because of stuff like that, it as another additional need 279 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: of protection for women specifically, but even men. And of 280 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: course we can go into the conversation about how anti 281 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: abortion movement is actually a misogynistic movement in order to 282 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: control women's bodies. That's the whole conversation we've had before, 283 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: probably need to have all the times. But when we 284 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 1: look at things like this riot, when we look at 285 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: the people who are actually involved with it, like you said, 286 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 1: they were able to pinpoint, Hey, that dude is known 287 00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: for coming to threatened women, that dude is known for 288 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: harassing women trying to get to an abortion clinic just 289 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: to have a conversation, or even supporting planned parenthood. How 290 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: do things like legislation like this feed into movements like 291 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 1: this that causes this like violent rhetoric and almost a 292 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,760 Speaker 1: mob lynching mentality. Yeah, it's a great question. I think 293 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: it legitimizes them. I think when we treat movements that 294 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: are not above threatening violent tactics, agitation, things like that. 295 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: Of course, I am a protester, you know, I've been 296 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: protesting since I've been a child. So I completely a 297 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: thousand percent support anyone's free speech and ability to assemble 298 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: and protests, even if it's person thing I don't agree with. 299 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: That is a protected thing, and I find it to 300 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: be quite sacred. However, harassing people trying to get to 301 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: a clinic so that they can't get into the door, 302 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: that's different. Right, threatening violence, that's different. And so I 303 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: think that when lawmakers, public policy officials, folks like that, 304 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: when they create policy that says, oh, what you're saying, 305 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: that's okay, Like, okay, we'll put out a law that 306 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: says this thing that hasn't that is not happening, it's 307 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: against the law. Now, it's like, I feel like it's 308 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: just legitimizes and emboldens people that they can use these 309 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: kinds of tactics to get what they want, right, and 310 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: that's to go back to the insurrection for a moment. 311 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that's been so 312 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: frustrating in the aftermath of this conversation, people saying things like, well, 313 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: you know, if you vote to impeach Trump, that's just 314 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: going to make them more angry. And it's like we 315 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: can't have this. It's like like we can't live in 316 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: a country where we are afraid to do what's needed 317 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: to be done because people think that it's okay to 318 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: respond with violence when they don't get their way. It's 319 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: like that, like we can't have that. A country can't 320 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: be built on that. And going back to this anti 321 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 1: abortion movement and its relation to to the insurrection, it's 322 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: something we've been talking about a lot lately, and I've 323 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: been on my mind a lot lately, is how kind 324 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: of new it is, Like in a lot of ways 325 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: it's old, but like the strength with the Republican Party 326 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: with conservatism and women are people just voting on abortion? 327 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: And then how like emotional an issue that is for people? 328 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: And then like you said, all of this like these 329 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: false facts and disinformation and misinformation, and people who were 330 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 1: watching this and who were listening to Trump and watching 331 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: this like, well, I guess like we didn't know it 332 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: was gonna be a right then, but this thing he 333 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: was holding and they were saying like, no, this is 334 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: the anti abortion movement is going to be involved in it. 335 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: And it turns out, yes, um, can you talk about that? So, yes, 336 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So here's what Aaron Matson, the executive 337 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: director of Reproaction, which they tracked anti abortion activists, here's 338 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: what she said. She says, anti abortion agitators have been 339 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: calling and supporting the president. I guess the then president. 340 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: The President's called the store Washington for some time. I know, 341 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: and I am confident that as time goes on and 342 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: more and more these photos are analyzed, but we'll see 343 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 1: more overleapt between the anti abortion movement and the white 344 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: supremacists who tried to overthrow the United States of America. 345 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: And she was completely right. A number of very prominent 346 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: anti abortion voices were president at the Capitol in June six. 347 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: And this is not a coincidence. There has been this 348 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: long standing crossover between the two movements, the anti abortion 349 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: movement and white supremacist terror movements. Like that is not 350 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: a new thing. It's gives you all have done such 351 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: a great job of talking about there's so much to 352 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: untangle when it comes to, you know, white supremacist movements, 353 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: anti abortion movements, anti women movements. They are all kind 354 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: of in the same stuff mixed bag, I guess you 355 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: would say. And Vice had a really great rundown of 356 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: all of the different prominent anti abortion voices who were 357 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: at the Capitol that day. Abby Johnson, she's one of 358 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: the nation's highest profile anti abortion activist um and she 359 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,959 Speaker 1: was in d C. She tweeted an image of herself 360 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 1: at a Trump rally that preceded uh the invasion of 361 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: the capital, and she wrote, front row with the most 362 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: pro life president of our country. John Broke Coved, who 363 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 1: was a convicted abortion clinic bomber, live streamed himself at 364 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: the Capitol on January six, as he put it, quote 365 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: fighting for our beloved President Donald J. Trump. Taylor Hanson, 366 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: who you might know he got very popular by putting 367 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: these murals up all over the country that said baby 368 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: lives matter. He was there. And also Derek Evans, a 369 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: member of the West Virginia House of Delicates, live streamed 370 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,879 Speaker 1: a video of himself in a helmet urging rioters to 371 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 1: break into the building. And two years earlier, a court 372 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: forbid Evans from having any contact with a woman who 373 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,720 Speaker 1: helped escort patients at West Virginia's Lone abortion clinic after 374 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: she accused him of regularly standing outside and harassing her. 375 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: So these are people who have documented histories of a 376 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 1: either being very prominent anti abortion voices or b I 377 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: just showing themselves to not be above threats and violence 378 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: to push their extreme anti abortion agenda. So it's not 379 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: a coincidence that these folks also felt that that kind 380 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: of extremism was an appropriate response to be used in 381 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: the capital, you know, and you know, as you're talking 382 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: about specifically Evans, and of course he actually resigned because 383 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: of people actually be like, hey, oh, this is not good. 384 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: Let's not have him represent us, which is nice to see, 385 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,440 Speaker 1: I guess, but he being a violent person who came 386 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: yelling after and harassed to the point that women were scared. 387 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: That was one of the other conversations they were having 388 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: with the anti abortion was many of the people are like, hey, 389 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: that dude and he has so much domestic violence if 390 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:37,200 Speaker 1: you look at his rap sheet, that dude is known 391 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: as being violent towards women. Like all of these things 392 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 1: that had showed obvious. Oh, these are the dudes who 393 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: end up being shooters, Like that's kind of that match 394 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: shooter conversation, Like these are the same people who are 395 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: going after people, going to harass and trying to assassinate candidates. 396 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: And we also saw many who were obviously like the 397 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 1: Proud Boys, who were very racist and knew they were racist, 398 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 1: and we knew they were white supremasts, and they're proud 399 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: to be white supremacist. Like you see all of these 400 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: people like, oh, those are the violent who are racist 401 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: and sexist. How do you think that this type of 402 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: disinformation led to them being the ones that led the riots? 403 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a great question. I'm not at all surprised. 404 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: You know, we know that disinformation largely impacts underrepresented people. 405 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: So it largely is fueled by these horrible distortions about 406 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: who we are, whether it's women, black folks, other communities 407 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: of color. Disinformation is fueled by racist, sexist like the 408 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: worst racist sexist imagining of who we are, right, that's 409 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 1: complete caricatures. And so it is not surprising to me 410 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,919 Speaker 1: that these people would be fueled by this kind of 411 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,120 Speaker 1: hateful content and really truly believe it. And I think, 412 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: you know, to your point, the fact of the matter is, 413 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 1: I'm happy that Evans resigned. That I'm to the point 414 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: where whenever there's some sort of like accountability or consequence. 415 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh wow, look at that someone faced a consequence. 416 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: They still have those, but these are people who have 417 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: scary backgrounds, right, people who have shown themselves to not 418 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: be above using violence to get what they want. And 419 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 1: you're exactly right that because we don't take violence against 420 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,479 Speaker 1: women very seriously. Most times, when there's a mass shooter 421 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 1: or some sort of mass scale violence behind that, there 422 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: is a trail of people who tried to sound the alarm, 423 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: usually women. You know, I think it was on Christmas 424 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: Eve that guy who he set off a bomb in 425 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: I wanna say, Tennessee, Nashville, thank you come to find 426 00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: out his girlfriend previously was like I think he's making 427 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: a bomb, right, like like pretty clearly, you know what. 428 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,159 Speaker 1: It's like. I wish we could get to a place 429 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: where violence against women was disqualifying, that like people just 430 00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,239 Speaker 1: didn't let it slide because it's so often is an 431 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: indicator that something else bad is going to happen. And 432 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: I just wish that we lived in a world where 433 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: these kinds of warnings were taken seriously instead of being ignored. 434 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: Right when we talk about this information happening and we 435 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: see it being targeted towards women specifically. I was kind 436 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: of shocked to see how many women really really dug 437 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: into Q and on and the whole, like I have 438 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: to protect my babies. I have to protect my babies. 439 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: But when it comes down to the violence, more often 440 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,040 Speaker 1: than not, it's the men. And again, of course we've 441 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: had this conversation again how misogyny plays a bigger part 442 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: of anti abortion movements than we know. How do we 443 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: see that men end up taking these kinds of initiatives 444 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: and owning them. I guess it's the word and then 445 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: taking it into such a route that it becomes a volatile, 446 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: bigger movement than what is online. So as what I'm 447 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: saying is like we see a lot of Q and misinformation, 448 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: and we found out that Instagram was one of the 449 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: biggest of connections for women and she using like influencers 450 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,239 Speaker 1: to talk to these women who feel like they need 451 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: to do all these things. But when it comes down 452 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: to like parlor and when it comes down to read 453 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: it in Furtune, it's the men and who initiate these 454 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: like kind of responses of it. We have to do something, 455 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: let's get armed, And we see that in misinformation being 456 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: bled into anti abortion movements into the only person who 457 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: can say by country is former President Trump. How do 458 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: we see this information being played out where it becomes 459 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: such a bigger conspiracy theory that it does lead to violence. Wow, 460 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: that's a long winded question. I'm sorry. I mean it's 461 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 1: a big question. I think that we know that if 462 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: you hear something enough times that people eventually believe it. 463 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,560 Speaker 1: And so the more times that you hear something, the 464 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: more times that you hear a false claim go completely unchecked, 465 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 1: people are likely to believe it. I hope that this 466 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: is understood in the spirits which I mean it. People 467 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:43,200 Speaker 1: who are out to disiniform, out to cause chaos and confusion. 468 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,960 Speaker 1: They're very smart, and they're very savvy, and they're very 469 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: good at it. And I think that the dynamic that 470 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: you just described where they're sort of a softer version 471 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: of it for women to get them involved, and then 472 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: a lot of the violence is led by men, I 473 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,879 Speaker 1: think that is a really smart, sav you way to 474 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 1: structure a movement. And somebody once told me, whatever the 475 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: movement is, there's never any kind of movement without women, right, 476 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,679 Speaker 1: And so I do think that we have to have 477 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: some tough conversations about the role that women played, because 478 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: one of the first people to die in the interaction 479 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: was Astley bad At, a woman who had been completely 480 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: completely just like consumed by Q and On conspiracy theories. 481 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:27,119 Speaker 1: And so I think that you see women sort of 482 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: being indoctrinated to be sort of like the foot soldiers 483 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,160 Speaker 1: of this movement where men are largely the ones who 484 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: are pushing for violence, like your boogaloo boys and things 485 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: of that nature. That serves a very important function because 486 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 1: I think that if women are feeling like, well, I 487 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: need to support this because it's going to keep me 488 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: feeling safe, it's going to keep my position in society intact. 489 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: It's a very smart way to have these kinds of 490 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories be gendered in the way that they are, 491 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,439 Speaker 1: because I think it does ensure that, you know, if 492 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: you're a woman who maybe isn't so into the whole 493 00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: politics thing, but you know you don't like the idea 494 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: of children being targeted, so you get wrapped up in 495 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,840 Speaker 1: Q and On. I think that the idea that the 496 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 1: men storming the capital are going to create safety for 497 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 1: you and your children, I can understand why that's a 498 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: seductive message. You know, look at the way that Trump 499 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,879 Speaker 1: message to white suburban women all throughout the election, saying 500 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: things like, oh, if you vote for Biden, quote, antipa 501 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: is going to be at your front door. You know 502 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna have riots and your in your streets. You 503 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: know your kids aren't safe. I think that he messaged 504 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: that way because I think it's effective. Everybody wants to 505 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: be safe, and I think it's a really smart way 506 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: to ensure that everybody is bought in. Even if you're 507 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: not like a violent person and you're not going to 508 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: be the one breaking windows and trying to like hunt 509 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: down members of Congress with zip ties, you might be 510 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: supportive of it if you feel that, like that's what 511 00:26:56,920 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: the men have to do quote unquote to restore order 512 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: and keep you and your family safe. It's very savvy, 513 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: and part of me kind of is not surprised that 514 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,120 Speaker 1: it works on so many women, right. It was interesting 515 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: to see also, like the mothers with their sons. We 516 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,280 Speaker 1: had at least two examples of those, and I was like, which, 517 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: I know there's been articles about that as well, including 518 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: the fact that one of the young men who actually 519 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: is from Georgia Blue Ridge near Mina hometown blamed his 520 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: mother in the testimony. He actually blamed his mother. What 521 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: an ass? I mean, this was poor woman and she 522 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: was what I'm saying, like, that really does tell you 523 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,160 Speaker 1: all you need to know, right that you know if 524 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 1: you get caught storming the capital, that like, oh my 525 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,400 Speaker 1: mom didn't raise me right, that that would be your 526 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 1: first excuse. Honestly, this mom should be like, wow, I 527 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: really didn't do such a hot job. I have to 528 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: wonder what her response was, because all I read was 529 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 1: his testimony in which he was like, yeah, my mom 530 00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 1: told me to do this, My mom told me to 531 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: pick those up. My mom did this. And it was 532 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: quite funny because I was like, dude, you come in 533 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: here trying to be big masculine. I'm going to kidnap 534 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: these people and then be like, my mama did it right, 535 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: throwing your own mother under the bus. And it's funny 536 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: that you say this because I have noticed a lot 537 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: of these people are being released to their parents or 538 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,199 Speaker 1: in the care of a family members and things of 539 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: that nature. Your point is such a good one, where 540 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: it's like what happened to like, Oh, we're storming the 541 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: capital and we're you know, big and bad and blah 542 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,439 Speaker 1: blah blah. And now when you get caught, you're like, oh, well, 543 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: I gotta release me to my mommy. I was like, 544 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: which is it. If you're gonna be an insurrectionist, at 545 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: least I do it with your childs. But don't you 546 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: know well, and just coming back to because I think 547 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,840 Speaker 1: this is just a simple question I do and I 548 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: don't understand. This is how did the anti abortion movement 549 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: become the center of this riot? Almost? I think that 550 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: there's so much overlap between the two that I think 551 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: a lot of these people saw Donald Trump as the 552 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: person who was going to, in their eyes, restore the 553 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: rights of children to the unborn right. And so it's 554 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: it's not even the question of like, how did it become? 555 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: I think it was always there. I think so many 556 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: of the people at the forefront of the insurrection also 557 00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: did have this history with the anti abortion movement. I 558 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: think it's like the same way that you cannot unpack 559 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 1: their white supremacist leanings, their anti women leadings, their anti 560 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: immigrant leanings. I think it's all one big ball of 561 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: yarn that led us here. And the fact of the 562 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: matter is, you even saw anti abortion groups spreading this 563 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: complete lie that quote Antifa was responsible, even though we 564 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: know that's not true, and though we know many of 565 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 1: these people live streamed their crimes. You know, Kristen Hawkins, 566 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: who is the head of Students for Life of America, 567 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: which is the nation's biggest anti abortion student group, she 568 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: blamed ANTIFA members and other writers for storming the capital. 569 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: And so you already have the mainstream anti abortion movement 570 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: circling the wagons to protect the violent actions of these people, 571 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: some of whom are probably doing this in support, aren't 572 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: of their anti abortion ideology. Yeah, it's so frustrating. I 573 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: hate that when you're like, but it's this video here 574 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: if they can still be like no, no. So we 575 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: did see just so much racism and sexism on display 576 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: at this riot, and that there were a lot of 577 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 1: conversations afterwards, rightfully so, comparing the police and like public's 578 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: reaction to Black Lives Matter protest versus this riot. And 579 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: then also you have in in this handy outline, you 580 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: gave us the history between abortion clinic violence and how 581 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: that kind of overlaps with what happened. Absolutely, so one 582 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: of the things I think is really interesting about what 583 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: some of these abortion activists and advocates are saying, is 584 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: that the same way that many of us, myself included, 585 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: were disgusted watching the police take selfies with the rioters 586 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,480 Speaker 1: and shake their hands and just generally seem very buddy 587 00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: buddy with the rioters. That is very similar to what 588 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: abortion shouldn advocates and clinic workers have reported when they 589 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: try to engage the police to report violence or threats 590 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: happening at their clinics. And so there's a little piece 591 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: from refinding between nine, she says. In August ninety four, 592 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: wyn Indiana abortion clinic received a bomb threat. The city 593 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 1: refused to dispatch either police or fire officials, forcing clinic 594 00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,800 Speaker 1: staff to search for the bomb themselves. Nearly forty years later, 595 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: Becca Balinger, a clinic escort of New York City, called 596 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: it a complaint about protesters violating the fifteen foot buffer 597 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: zone at the clinic. When he arrived, she told her 598 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: nine she watched the responding officer approached the violator, shake 599 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: his hand and give him a hug. He then turned 600 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: to the group of clinic escorts and said, what are 601 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: you doing to restrict their First Amendment rights? Today? And 602 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: I think that one it enraged me. It was like, fine, 603 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: this guy, But I do think it shows the level 604 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: to which the police can sort of not always be 605 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: counted on to be, you know, restoring public order, the 606 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: same way that we saw police be buddy buddy with 607 00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: the rioters at the Capital. Abortion rights activists have said 608 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: that this is not surprising. This is exactly how it 609 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: is when we have called to report threats or violence 610 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: at clinics. And the fact of the matter is the 611 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 1: Associated Press found that law enforcement agencies nationwide have said 612 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: that at least thirty one officers in twelve states are 613 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,800 Speaker 1: being scrutinized by their supervisors for their behavior at the Capitol. Right. 614 00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: And so we know that the same way that we 615 00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: definitely have a problem with needing to root out people 616 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: that have white supremacist ties who are serving in police forces, 617 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,520 Speaker 1: it is not a stretch to imagine that that it's 618 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: also a problem when it comes to anti abortion ideology, 619 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:38,360 Speaker 1: that police officers they might feel sympathetic to people who 620 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,360 Speaker 1: would be threatening violence at a clinic. Right. And so 621 00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: these abortion advocates have been saying, yes, we have been 622 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: ringing the alarm about the fact that the police have 623 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: seemed to be buddy buddy with agitators at our clinics 624 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: for years. Again, it's just one of those things. It's 625 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 1: a tough conversation to have. But we do need to 626 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: talk about the ways that some of these darker forces 627 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: have infiltrated our police, but people who are meant to 628 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: be restoring order, you know. And so I do think 629 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: we have to have these kinds of tough conversations that 630 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 1: put these things at the forefront. Yeah, And there's such 631 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,680 Speaker 1: a like we've been talking about with this like ball 632 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: of yarn or these Vinn diagrams and all this overlap 633 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 1: because if you do look at the history of abortion 634 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: clinics like this is this violence and threatening of violence 635 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: has been there for a long time, like since the beginning, right, Yeah. 636 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, anybody who has worked in the abortion or 637 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: reproductive rights space can tell you this is not a 638 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: new problem. And I just think we really have to 639 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 1: grapple with the fact that so many people who work 640 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: in these spaces have been warning that the unchecked spread 641 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,920 Speaker 1: of distortions and lies on social media about abortion and 642 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: about clinics and about abortion providers will lead to real 643 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: world violence. And so I just think it's important to 644 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 1: note how much overlap there was with the violence at 645 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: the capital and the kind of violence that these abortion 646 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: advocates have been warning of for years. It's so much, 647 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: it's so much too untangle as we continue to have 648 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: these conversations, and certainly disinformation is a huge part of it. 649 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to shout out, any resources 650 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 1: you want to shout out, or I guess what people 651 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: can be looking for. Yeah, I'm sure I've said this 652 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: on the show before, but the never one thing we 653 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 1: can all do to curb disinformation is not amplify it, 654 00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: even if you're trying to dunk on it, even if 655 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: you've got a great joke. Sometimes it can be hard 656 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: to resist. I know it, But don't amplify it. If 657 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 1: you focus instead on kind of creating your own little 658 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,920 Speaker 1: pocket of the Internet that can be known for trustworthy information, 659 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: that it's such a better way to spend your time. 660 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:41,799 Speaker 1: I think that we all have to really understand the 661 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 1: way that like this is not just something that's happening online. 662 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: You know, I referenced this great or in rank in 663 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: piece that or finding between that and folction all read that. 664 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 1: But she points out that conspiracy theories and outlandish rhetoric 665 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: aren't without consequences, particularly when encouraged by those in power, 666 00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:01,760 Speaker 1: and anti abortion extremists launched highly visible smear campaign against 667 00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood, featuring doctored videos that accused the organization of 668 00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 1: illegally selling fetal body parts. It was absurding, completely untrue, 669 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: but that didn't stop Congressional Republicans from embracing the conspiracy 670 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: theory to crying Planned Parenthood and opening an investigation into 671 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: the organization. Just a few months later, Robert Dear opened 672 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: fire on a Planned Planarenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, killing 673 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: three people, including a security guard. He confessed that he 674 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 1: was quote upset with them performing abortions and selling baby parts, 675 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: a direct reference to the cooked up anti abortion smear campaign, 676 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that certainly has echoes, and other far 677 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: right conspiracies like Q and on and so again. These 678 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: are not just things people are saying online. They can 679 00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 1: have real world consequences, just like the continued repeated lie 680 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:49,719 Speaker 1: that Trump won the election and that it was being 681 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: stolen led to violence with the capital. The more that 682 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 1: we tolerate just unchecked conspiracy theories and allow them to 683 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: seep into our mainstream institutions like our Congress and our government, 684 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: the higher the risk for real world danger and real 685 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: world violence. And so do not think this is just 686 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: happening online. This is a real thing that has real 687 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: consequences for all of us. So with that, because as 688 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,879 Speaker 1: we talked about, they were already putting in laws that 689 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 1: don't makes us, that are just political games in order 690 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: to continue this rhetoric of lies for anti abortion reasons. 691 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: As well as the fact that even though Trump is gone, 692 00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: there's still the lie of voter suppression is very well 693 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,439 Speaker 1: in play. As in fact, you know, in the state 694 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:30,719 Speaker 1: of Georgia, and I think I saw it in the 695 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: state of North Carolina, they're already vamping up new ways 696 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 1: to suppress votes. We've got a Republican state lawmakers here 697 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: in Georgia doing new laws to try to take away 698 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: from absentee voting, shutting down all the polls. So all 699 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: of this disinformation, like even though it's kind of like, okay, 700 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: we can kind of push it aside because Biden is 701 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: finally in office, this anti abortion rhetoric is not gone. 702 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 1: Just because we have an actual pro abortion probably choice 703 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: people in office doesn't mean this fight is not over 704 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: What can we do as a listener, What can we 705 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: do as the people behind here? As we see it's 706 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: not just online. What can we do in real life 707 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: to help a start of the spread? But be also 708 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,320 Speaker 1: be an advocate. I think the fact that I forget 709 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: the numbers, but there are a lot of Republicans lawmakers 710 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: right now who to this day will not say that 711 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: the election was not stolen. You know, we have kind 712 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,879 Speaker 1: of like the idea of quote legal votes has made 713 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: it into our lexicon as if there is a widespread, 714 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: documented pattern of voting our regularities in this country. There 715 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: just is not. There are in every election, you have 716 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: people where it's like, oh, I was voting for my 717 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 1: son who's at college, or this or that. There's always 718 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: a smattering of sketchiness here or there, but there is 719 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,560 Speaker 1: not any kind of documented widespread voting our regularities in 720 00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:51,760 Speaker 1: this election or in any of our last recent elections. 721 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: Right And so the fact that things like oh, well, 722 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 1: I think we should count legal votes has become part 723 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,480 Speaker 1: of our lexicon and has been sort of mean to 724 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: be kind of a moderate thing. I think has done 725 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,879 Speaker 1: such a great disservice to our democracy. I don't think 726 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: we will know how bad it is for many years. 727 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: You know, I think it planted a seed in a 728 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: lot of people that maybe we'll never go away. And honestly, 729 00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: I think one thing that we could all do is 730 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 1: just being willing to push back on the echoes of 731 00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: these fabrications. So whether you know, if someone says, well, 732 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,680 Speaker 1: I think we should count every legal vote, being willing 733 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,399 Speaker 1: to say, like, well, you know, what do you mean 734 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 1: by that? You know, tell me, do you think there's 735 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: a lot of illegal votes out there? Like? What do 736 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: they look like? How often are they happening? I think 737 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:39,240 Speaker 1: being willing to interrogate these claims so that they cannot 738 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,719 Speaker 1: become part of our fabric of understanding the world because 739 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 1: they're based on lies. The same way that when people say, like, oh, 740 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 1: did you know that Joe Biden supports abortion up until 741 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: five minutes before delivery and saying that's not true, that 742 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: is incorrect. If someone was trying to do a abortion 743 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 1: five minutes before you were meant to be in labor, 744 00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: that will be a crime. That's not happening, And that's 745 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: in act this being willing to push back on these 746 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: ideas that are based on nothing in ways that are 747 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: going to actually prevent them from becoming part of the 748 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,439 Speaker 1: fabric of how we understand the world because they're based 749 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,799 Speaker 1: on lies. I know that it's a tall order, but 750 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 1: we have enough in this world to contend with. We 751 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: don't need more, right, That's that's fair. You know. I 752 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: just have to see you one last thing, because you 753 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 1: have been in it, and you have been in it, 754 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 1: whether physically because you're in d C or because you're 755 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 1: part of things like Ultra Violet and and talking about 756 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: this information. What have you been doing for yourself for 757 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 1: self care? Because we haven't asked this question a long time, 758 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: but that's been a part of our m O. So 759 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 1: what is your self care? Oh my god, I'm so 760 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 1: excited to talk about this. It's funny. It was my 761 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 1: mantra the last few because just like I gotta get 762 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: to inauguration, I gotta get to inauguration, I gotta get 763 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: to an I had not been doing a great job 764 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 1: of taking care of myself because there was so much 765 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: after the insurrection on the six I think that everybody 766 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:14,759 Speaker 1: in my little community here in d C was just 767 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,719 Speaker 1: we had just had enough. We had just had it. 768 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: But you know, one of the things that I do 769 00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: to really keep myself grounded and restore myself. This really 770 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: is being outside. And so this weekend I went on 771 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:28,719 Speaker 1: a lovely hike in George Washington National Forest and it 772 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: was a very restorative, even though it was cold as balls. 773 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: So just trying to spend time outside, trying to remember 774 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: that I can only I can only consume so much. 775 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: I can only do so much. You know, if I 776 00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,759 Speaker 1: read every new take from what happened in the insurrection 777 00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: or every new horrible thing that's going on, I won't 778 00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: necessarily be any better informed or be any better poise 779 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,080 Speaker 1: to like make a difference. And something I can really 780 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,680 Speaker 1: do to make sure that I'm better poised to make 781 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: a difference is like sleep, take care of myself, take breaks, 782 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,400 Speaker 1: And I encourage aybody to do that. You know, it 783 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,479 Speaker 1: can be enticing to want to refresh Twitter a million 784 00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: times a day and get every new update of every 785 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,600 Speaker 1: new detail of every new story, but that does not 786 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,240 Speaker 1: necessarily translate to you being better informed or a better 787 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: ally or a better fighter in this movement. So I 788 00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: appreciate you guys making that space to talk about that, 789 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 1: because I think it does get erased in the movement 790 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: that like taking care of yourself is very important. I 791 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: encourage everybody too, it's important. What are you doing drinking 792 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,560 Speaker 1: a lot of coffee? I'm writing fan fiction and I 793 00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:38,879 Speaker 1: got a walking treadmill desk, like a really cheap one, 794 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:41,759 Speaker 1: really cheap. I don't want anyone to be like, wow, no, 795 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 1: it's very cheap and small. But it's I like it 796 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: is it under your desk right now? No, this is 797 00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: my podcast disc it's under my research Okay, yes, space 798 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 1: it sounds like you're so rich, My God doesn't space 799 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,640 Speaker 1: and even if it is a small Okay, Well, I 800 00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: was trying to help you out there. Yes, that's what 801 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: I'm doing. Yeah, I honestly I don't know. Look, and 802 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: that's not because I'm not doing things. It's mainly because 803 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: I am so just organized with my time, because I 804 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,359 Speaker 1: am at the worst of keeping things separate. So I'll 805 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:24,480 Speaker 1: work all the time and then just sit all the 806 00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,360 Speaker 1: time too, So it's like one or the other, but 807 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: for me a lot of like I am a comfort person, 808 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 1: so I'll rewatch things that I love and know how 809 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 1: it's going to turn out, and then bask in that 810 00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: and then also a long cuddle times with my dog. 811 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: Why does it feel so good to like rewatch the 812 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,239 Speaker 1: Office for the hundred times, like, like, what is it 813 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,080 Speaker 1: about it that's so comforting? It feels like friends, And 814 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: because you know it's coming, you're not gonna be shocked 815 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:49,880 Speaker 1: or disappointed, or if you're going to be disappointed, you 816 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: already know it's going to be disappointing, and sometimes you 817 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:55,399 Speaker 1: can fast forward through that. Yeah, what's your comfort show? Oh? 818 00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: I have a few. Supernatural has become one, thank you Annie, 819 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:01,040 Speaker 1: and I'd like, I don't know why, but it has 820 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: become one. But also a new Girl, Parks and rec 821 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: have become a few of them. I watched the weird 822 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,719 Speaker 1: things like The Flash. I really loved that show, and 823 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: I just love how genuinely sweet it is. So I 824 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: watched really silly things like that, and then I'll rewatch movies. 825 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 1: You know Body's business. I love this. It's like a 826 00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: prescription for self care and comfort. Yeah, and also I 827 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: just wear soft pants. That's my other comfort, soft pants, 828 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,160 Speaker 1: dog cuddles and the television shows you've seen a million 829 00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: times before us sounds great, Well, Bridget what else do 830 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,399 Speaker 1: you think if we left anything out or if there's 831 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,480 Speaker 1: more that you resources that you want to provide. Is 832 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,040 Speaker 1: there anything else you want to add? Well, I would say, um, 833 00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:44,319 Speaker 1: if you want to have more conversations about disinformation and 834 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: how it pertains to women and folks of color. My 835 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: podcast There Are No Girls on the Internet just released 836 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,960 Speaker 1: a brand new series all about disinformation called Disinformed. You 837 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:55,080 Speaker 1: can check it out on this very network. I heart 838 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,560 Speaker 1: radio Awesome. Yeah, and definitely do that listeners, Bridget, you 839 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 1: want to shout out any any other pleases that the 840 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: good listeners can find you. Yes, I'm on Twitter at 841 00:44:03,280 --> 00:44:05,719 Speaker 1: Bridget Murray and I'm on Instagram at Bridget Murray in 842 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,800 Speaker 1: d C. Well, thank you as always for being here. 843 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:12,319 Speaker 1: You managed to make it a delight even though we're 844 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,400 Speaker 1: talking about things that are not so delightful. It's a skill. 845 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, I hope so you know you can. There's 846 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: always room for humor, even if it's gallows humor. There's 847 00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:25,920 Speaker 1: always room for humors. Yes, yes, and we very much 848 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: appreciate it. Can't wait till your back again, listeners. If 849 00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:31,880 Speaker 1: you would like to email as you can or email 850 00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: Stuff Media Mom Stuff at i heeart media dot com. 851 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at stuff I've Never 852 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,000 Speaker 1: Told You are on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. Thanks 853 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: as always too, I'm super producer, Christina. Hey Christina, and 854 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening Stuff. I never told you 855 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:47,399 Speaker 1: the protection of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from 856 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio, visit that I Heard You at Apple 857 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:51,760 Speaker 1: Podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.