WEBVTT - Neil Giraldo 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.640 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Says Podcast. 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:18.840 My guest today is guitarist, producer, songwriter Neil Giraldo. Neil, 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.760 when we were setting this up, I heard that you're 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.840 an early riser. How does that work with being a 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:25.759 rock and roller. 0:00:26.400 --> 0:00:28.560 Well, let me give you what they give me. You're 0:00:28.600 --> 0:00:30.840 my philosophy to you, Bob, and I just want to say, 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.239 you wanted a very few people that can actually pronounce 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.120 my name properly, So you in Giraldo, you made sure 0:00:36.200 --> 0:00:39.760 that usually they leave the l out. I don't know why, Gerardo, 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.800 and I just don't get it. But there's the idea 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:46.920 about if you get up really early when it's dark, 0:00:47.200 --> 0:00:49.120 and you go to sleep when it's dark, you get 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:54.080 two nights in every day. See how that works. 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.800 Okay, I'm very much a knight person, and that's a 0:00:57.840 --> 0:00:59.720 good line. So when do you get up and when 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:00.520 do you go to bed? 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:05.319 Well, it could be as early as nine thirty, and 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.479 it could be as late as eleven, and I wake 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:12.160 up usually three thirty, almost every day every day. 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:15.520 Okay, one would say that's very little sleep. 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:19.640 It is, but I think on percentages, the percentages of 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:22.520 nine thirty are a lot better than the percentages of eleven, 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:24.920 except when I'm on the road or something, or if 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.360 in the studio. So yeah, it's just the thing. I 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:30.360 always been that way. I always get up early and 0:01:30.560 --> 0:01:32.480 as soon as I want. The problem is is I 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:35.000 want to be awake, that's the problem. And when I 0:01:35.040 --> 0:01:38.240 wake up, my mind just goes. I start writing immediately, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.960 and it's great. I'm by myself, my dog, I light 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.840 a candle, the wife don't wake up till about seven 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:47.920 thirty eight. I'm there by myself or four hours. 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:51.720 So you write every day, every day. Tell me about that. 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:56.440 Well, that's not only songwriting, but the words. I have 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:01.600 a production company called bel Kiaso Entertainment, work on streaming 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.600 TV shows, episodes, episodic things, and anything that pops into 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.200 my head I kind of get carved into right away. 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:11.640 I don't pick up an instrument. It's usually just writing 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:16.639 scribbling that time. But sometimes they do that as well. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:20.520 So if you're on the road, what time do you 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:20.960 get up? 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.760 I kind of do the same thing. Sometimes it's more 0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:27.720 like around five, but it doesn't matter what times, though, Bob, 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:29.480 It's it's really terrible. I mean, if I go to 0:02:29.560 --> 0:02:31.720 the East coast. I'll still get up at like three 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:34.639 point thirty or four. I mean, it's bad. I've been 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:38.040 doing it for years forever, you know, kind of who 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:38.320 I am. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:41.280 I'm sort of the reverse. I like the nighttime on 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.160 the other end, because as you say, it's very few 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:48.200 distractions the time as your own. Just before we started, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.160 you said, oh, I have to turn off my phone. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.519 I'm in this text thread with all these comedians. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:59.120 Yeah, what is that about. Well, they dive into all 0:02:59.240 --> 0:03:02.360 kinds of stuff. Not only them, they're journalists and writers, 0:03:03.000 --> 0:03:06.840 but they're just they're not only is a great information, 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.280 they're very funny. You know, when I moved to New 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.440 York and I was twenty one years old, I this 0:03:14.480 --> 0:03:17.000 is a I'll get to this better. The manager was 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.280 owned catch a Issing Star and it was a comedy club. 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.120 So basically it was in the comedy club every night, 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.760 every night, every night. So all they become all friends, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:31.519 like Billy Crystal and Lenny Schultz, Gilbert Goffrey, Rodney Dagerfield, 0:03:31.560 --> 0:03:34.320 all those folks, right, So I was always surrounded, which 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:40.600 was great because working in a band and doing everything 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.080 you need to do to make music and make it 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.280 all right, you need comedy, you know, because you just 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:48.680 need to find it a way out so you can 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:50.840 clear your head and come back and be discharged and 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:52.760 ready to do what you're supposed to be doing, what 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.640 is making music and writing songs. 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:56.480 So who's on this thread? 0:03:57.680 --> 0:03:59.240 Well, I can't give you everybody. We had a couple 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.480 John de Bellis, eve middleman, Uh, Brian Caram who's actually 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.720 a White House journalist so he's on there, and a 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:09.760 bunch of other folks. It's just uh, it's just crazy, 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.880 it's just fun. Well how many people totally Oh, there's 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.080 there's not many. They come and go. There's probably six 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:19.160 something like that. But they're just they're they're they're brilliant. 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.440 I mean, it's just funny and and things all the time. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.360 One one comedy John he lives in Nicaragua, so he's 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:29.840 in a whole totally other world. So yeah, person of 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:33.720 Poup Spring, Sun of California, Spain, all over the place. 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:36.360 And what is usually the topic of conversation. 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:42.600 Oh, it's political, it's political, but uh it could it 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:45.279 could swing. Like we were talking about David Johansson today. 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:48.400 You know I did see your your your post today. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.960 I did read I also read the the responses that 0:04:52.000 --> 0:04:53.400 the folks do, and I just, you know, I just 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.880 have to apologize to you because I read everything that 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:59.680 you're right, and you're brilliant, You really are. You cover 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.800 so many basis and so many so much ground on 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.440 so many different subjects, which is what I really love. 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:07.760 And what I do is I don't usually read them. 0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:10.520 I did today because I was gonna talk to you. 0:05:11.200 --> 0:05:13.640 Usually usually I wait for a week or two weeks, 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:15.560 and then I read it as a book, as each 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:17.560 one's a chapter, and then I read it like and 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.280 I keep them my store them in a folder because 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.360 they're great reading and they're great to share to, you know, 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:24.600 especially the music things to young people who I talk 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.000 to all the time, and I think it's brilliant writing. 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:31.200 So anyway, you're talking about David Joe and the reason 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:34.400 I don't and I'm not a oh, how do I 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.960 say this? Right? I'm not oh. I'm not trying to 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.440 make myself any better than anybody else here at all. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:43.120 So really you got to understand what this comes from. 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.200 But I generally don't like posting it because I don't 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:48.719 want to start with the word I. You know, I 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.279 want the people to understand who that person is. So 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:53.320 I saw when he did Jeff Beck, I's already to 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:55.159 do all these people, and a lot of them I 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.120 do know and had, you know, relationships with them. But 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.680 I don't like seeing, well I record to this record 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:04.360 for them or I try to leave that. It's really 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:08.800 hard for me to post any of that. So it's difficult. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:15.760 Okay, I completely understand that. But to be a successful musician, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:18.640 you have to network and promote yourself. 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.040 I do realize that, and I must say that I'm 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:24.240 really bad at it, and I'm not the old guy 0:06:24.279 --> 0:06:25.640 that says I ain't going to do so. I don't 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.080 want that, not that at all. If it disturbs my 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:32.120 creative time, which isn't the morning i'd rather tip. On 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.719 the other side, I do have to maybe I'll do 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.680 better this year. Right. I do post some things and 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.000 people respond. I try to get back to it's really 0:06:41.000 --> 0:06:43.520 hard for me, and I'm not I'm not that guy. 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:45.880 I'm not that old guy that says I ain't going 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:47.560 to do any of the stuff. It's all bullshit. You know, 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.760 what's to go back to the telephone dial up or what. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.440 I'm not the guy, but I do need to promote 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:57.920 that stuff, so so help me, Bob, help me out. 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:00.640 Come on, Okay, let's go back to work. You get 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:03.919 to me your work, and your manager is the guy 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.839 who runs catch a rising star forget his name? 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:13.120 Suddenly Rick Newman. Yeah, and how did that happen? Well, 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:15.240 he came. He came a year later. I have to 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.640 preface what happened before that. I was I'll give you 0:07:17.680 --> 0:07:19.840 the New York story because that's that's going to have 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:24.840 some entrance in the way my kind of life expanded. 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:28.680 But when I got to New York, I was there 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:32.440 to audition for Dan Hartman and Rick Derringer. And it's 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.880 because somebody saw me play in Cleveland at a club 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.720 and they asked me if I would be interested. I says, yeah, yeah, 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:40.520 of course, but let me talk to my bandmates because 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:42.320 I don't want to I don't want to do anything 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:43.880 behind your back. I want to make sure they're okay 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.720 with me doing it. Maybe if I get the gig, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:48.920 I won't be able to be in the band. So 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.640 I went up there and I auditioned for Rick first, 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.160 and after I got done, I says, well, I got 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:57.560 an audition for Dan Hartman next. He goes, no, you don't. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.120 I said, what do you mean not doing? He goes, well, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:01.840 ain't going anywhere? Well, I said, do I got the gig? 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.440 He goes not yet. I said, okay, So there's a 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:06.920 lot of humor in this, and then I'll get to 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:09.200 get to rising star. But there's a lot of humor 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.840 in this. Because I was standing outside the door. I 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.280 had a white T shirt on, a pair of jeans, 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:16.520 a rope belt, a pair of white sneakers slip on 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.680 sneakers kids, and I saw this guy walk out and 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.840 I heard him playing, and he was amazing, like an 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:25.520 amazing guitar player. He came out, hair beautiful, all poory 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:29.560 in his studs, leather jacket, leather pants, shoes. He goes, hey, 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.439 how you doing, kid? I go, oh, I'm good. But 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:36.320 your name he goes, Rudy Valentino. I went, oh, shit, 0:08:36.520 --> 0:08:39.880 Rudy Valentino, Neil Geroldo. How I got a chance with this? 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:41.959 I thought, I felt like just turning around and walking 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.480 out of sires, this isn't gonna happen. But I did 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.640 go in there and and I did get on with 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:51.440 her quite well. So I went home back to Cleveland, 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:52.960 and he asked me to come back, and eventually I 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:54.640 got I had to go write some new music, so 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.440 I wrote a couple songs, came back, played it for him. 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:58.600 He goes, okay, all right, all right, I think you're okay, 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.640 And because I played two and that kind of helped 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:04.840 the whole thing. But anyway, so you got to progress 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.520 a year later, and that's when I met Patricia. And 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:12.040 Rick Newman was Patricia's manager and then he became my 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.360 manager as well. So in the early days, which would 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:17.520 have been set in nineteen seventy nine in the month 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.880 of May, always in Catcher Isaac Star for years and 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.800 years and years after all the time, and that's where 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.440 all the comedians were, and they would always do their 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:30.720 routines and then they'd come into the bar or where 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.079 I would be, and then they would say, what do 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:34.760 you think about that? Let me do Then they do 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.680 their routine again, something different to see what I thought. 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.480 And they were now super super great, super great people 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:43.040 and real nice and I just enjoyed that and it 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.360 was a lot of laughs, a lot of good times. 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:49.200 Okay, let's go back. You're playing in your band in Ohio. 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:54.720 Do you have dreams of making it at the time 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:57.480 of going to the coast being a recording person. Are 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:58.920 you just doing what you're doing? 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.080 I had, I had big dreams, but I thought they 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:07.000 were shattered and I thought they were gone. I I 0:10:07.120 --> 0:10:09.559 was a very sick child. I'll get to that. I'd 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:11.920 get to that later, but really really sick. I had 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:14.800 terrible health when I was younger, really really bad. But 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:18.360 I got to the point where I thought, well, I'm 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.200 not gonna make it as a as a rock and 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.080 roll quote guitar player, It's not gonna happen. I could 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.880 play piano. And some of my you know heroes, we 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.240 were jazz people. But Paul Eric Gardner, you know, Bill Evans, 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.240 all the great winscomb as dou Kellyton, all those folks. Right, 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:36.720 So I studied a lot of piano, and I thought, well, 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.440 I could get married, I can have a couple of kids. 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:41.679 I can live in Cleveland and the weekends I'd go 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:45.440 play cocktail bars and just play piano. That's probably the end. 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.840 But then a very successful, very good musician, great musician 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.800 named Kevin Rally who was in a bad called Michael 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:55.120 Stanley Band. He wanted to put a band together and 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:56.840 he thought it would be fun. We can, but they 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.640 were terrible venues. It was like a lounge band, it was. 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.480 And then we'd move around, play a different instruments. Okay, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.400 So and I thought, well, this is where it's going. 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.680 I'm going to be that cocktail piano player. So my 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.680 dreams were shattered. I was playing up there hoping, but 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:14.760 and then somebody saw me and said, what are you 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.040 doing here? You need to be with another top name artist, 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:21.840 and I went okay. Then I got the I went 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:23.839 up to New York and that's how began. 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.640 Do you know where you were playing and who saw you? Yeah? 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:31.560 At he was at the Brown Derby restaurant in Cleveland. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.320 I can't remember what city was it. And the guy 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.400 that saw me, his name was Tracy Coates. You know, Bob, everybody, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.440 I think you can count five people. You can count 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.439 the five people that I won't get metaphysical and getting 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.520 a different play in here, but five people that changed 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.320 your life. Five people. This guy was one of. His 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:54.079 name is Tracy Coates, and he owned a PA company 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:57.040 and meaning he would do He was from Cleveland, but 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.560 he did a lot of shows nationally, right, so he 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:03.600 always heard about all the different musicians and bands that 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.480 were looking for players, right, So that's how it was. 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:09.240 He saw me, and he was a great guy and 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:11.520 he thought I played, thought it was pretty good. I 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:15.040 don't know. And that was the guy. He's one of a. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:20.320 Five, okay, a little slower. So he sees you. Does 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:22.040 he come up to you at the end of the 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.319 gig and say, hey, I'm going to hook you up 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:26.679 or you home in the phone rings? How does it 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:29.600 actually happen? Do you end up with auditions for Darren 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:31.199 jer and Hartman? Yeah? 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.080 He's what he did is it was we took a break. 0:12:33.120 --> 0:12:35.120 You know that you do three sets. We did one 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:37.640 set and I just went out to grab a smoke, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:39.480 have a cigarette, you know, And as I'm walking through 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.280 the crowd, he comes out. He goes, hey, I'm Tracy 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:46.080 Coates and man, you can play whenever and would you 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.760 be interested? I said, really, of course I would be. 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:50.880 He goes, well, here's my number, call me and I'll 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.120 say her. And that's how it happened. He set it 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.640 up about a weekly after my band. I must say 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:58.839 this is you know, excuse me, it's important you're playing 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:01.520 in a band you'd be true to and uh, you 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.719 know you that's who you're with, and you have to 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:05.720 ask them if it's okay, and they all said, yeah, sure, 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:09.760 no problem, no problem. The ironic part of this, Bob, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.760 this is where the universe steps in the other guitar 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.360 player bass player because I played bass in their guitar 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.840 and keyboards all this stuff. You know, he went up 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.720 to audition for Derrenger before me, but he never told anybody. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:28.439 Oh so, and and the real weird part about this 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:33.040 is he came up there for the final five. Who's 0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.880 in the final five? And he's And I was shocked 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:38.200 to see that he was there and go, what are 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:40.520 you doing here? He goes, well, you know I've been 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.080 up here. I went what I never knew, never knew. Right, 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.800 he's a great guy too, but that was real weird. 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:47.120 Right. 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.280 So we were and we were rooming together in a hotel. 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.640 We only had one one day, one night, and then 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:55.400 we'd have to fly home. I'd have to fly home 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.199 the next day. And so the manager called for Rick 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.440 and said, when a thing, thank you. You're gonna love this, Bob, 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.840 because this is a great call. He says, I really 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:05.959 want to thank you for your time and your effort. 0:14:06.880 --> 0:14:09.320 Rick really liked the way you played. Really, I just 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:11.280 want to wish you the best, and you know, thank 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.400 you for coming up. Bob thinking, I looked, pointed at 0:14:13.440 --> 0:14:15.520 the guy. Go you got it, dude, right. He goes, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.320 can you just come by and say talk to Rick 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:21.400 a little bit? He was in the it's on fourteenth Street. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.120 I think are close to it, right by Real Sweeney's 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:26.360 in Manhattan. So I said, sure, I'll go down. I 0:14:26.400 --> 0:14:28.880 was really disappointed. Bum dot I walked. I mean, I 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:31.320 got in the cab, opened the door, Rick opened me in. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.440 He stood there, he goes, shook my hand. He goes, 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.800 come on in, you're in the band. I went, I'm 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.720 in the band. It was. It was profound, it really was. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:40.040 It was. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.000 And then he hands me an explorer, a guitar, Gibson 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:47.760 explorer with a serial number like fifty four, some ridiculous one. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.240 And we go back in the brown storm. We're jam 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.920 and I'm saying, Rick, I got really good ears. I 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.640 could say that, but my eyes are really bad. You 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:56.880 got a lot of lamps around here. I go, dude, man, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.480 I shouldn't be holding this guitar. And we just jammed, 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.160 like for hours, and that's how I got the gig 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.800 and went back to the hotel. I says, Rogers just 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:07.560 looked at me and goes, you got the gig, right, 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.440 I go, I did. I'm sorry. You know, I felt 0:15:10.480 --> 0:15:13.760 bad for him. You know, that's you know, everybody had 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.000 those hopes and dreams and it just worked out. 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.440 So what ended up happening to him and what ended 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:28.320 up happening to the rest of the band. 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.560 Oh well, the rest of the band, they kind of 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:36.600 just split up. He just worked I think origionally in 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.840 Ohio with different bands and stuff, and Kevin actually became 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.120 He's a great guy. Kevin had a great voice, great writer, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.720 a great keyboard player. He became manager of the Dead 0:15:44.800 --> 0:15:49.880 Kennedys and a few other bands. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.360 it was It was interesting. And then the drummer had 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:57.360 a real bad health scare during COVID, but he again 0:15:57.520 --> 0:15:59.200 went to play with some other bands. I thinks, so 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:02.360 they just they just stayed there. 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:07.480 Okay, Ohio, you know right now it has been for 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:10.360 years somewhat to press, you know, the steel industry and 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.320 other things going on. I'm always amazed at Ohio. You 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:16.680 drive through, There's this place in the middle of nowhere 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:20.680 with all these people. So you're growing up in Ohio. 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:26.400 You know Rick Deringer was from Ohio, wasn't he? And 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.600 you have Joe Walsho's from New Jersey, but he makes 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:33.680 it in the Ohio. Yeah. The Michael Stanley band who 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:37.000 gets a number of shots that never really breaks through. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.360 So when you were Ohio, is there someone that you 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.640 pointed to and said, Okay, I want to be like 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.200 him or did you feel like, man, I'm in the 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:49.800 middle of nowhere. Well, it. 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.680 Felt like the middle of nowhere one way, and in 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.400 another way it didn't because it gave all the musicians 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.160 and people that lived in a blue collar, very tough, 0:17:01.440 --> 0:17:06.080 tough town, Steel Town a chance to find an escape path. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:09.560 Right And since I was sick, and i'll go into 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:11.359 that thing right now, is that you know I was 0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.320 sick from the day I was born for years and years. 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.280 It wasn't until I was saying, like sixteen fifteen sixteen 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:20.160 where I thought I didn't get over and I did. 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.159 But then I had a relapse when I was about twenty. 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:24.760 But then I eventually got through it. But I'll get 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:27.080 to that whatever it is. But I didn't feel I 0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:32.760 didn't feel small in that town. I really liked. I 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.960 liked the mentality of a blue of a blue collar 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:39.520 work ethic, because the people there really work hard. And 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.960 when you had to go do gigs, you had to 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.440 drive through snowstorms, your hands would freeze your knuckles, your 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.840 cars wouldn't start. You slam your hands in the door. 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:51.240 I mean, all that stuff which gives you a purpose, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:57.440 makes you think about, think about who you are and 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.399 where are you're gonna go, and it keeps you strong. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:02.760 You don't there's no chance for you to get soft 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:05.080 in a town like that. So to me it was 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:08.600 a It was a real blessing. So I didn't feel small. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:11.280 And I always believe this, and I believe this from 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.640 then till till the day I die. Is that if 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.720 you have a great song or you have talent, you 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:18.439 will be found. 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:19.359 You won't. 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:24.720 You won't disappear unless you unless for some reason it's 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:27.040 you're not prepared, it's not going to work out for you, 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:29.040 which happens sometimes, you know. But if you have a 0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:31.480 great song, people are going to hear that song. You know, 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.320 even without the Internet, they'll hear it. You'll be found, 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:35.040 you will. 0:18:35.640 --> 0:18:38.040 So what term did you grow up in Ohio? 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.359 In a town, a little town called Parma outside of Cleveland, 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:45.160 but it was very close to the Cleveland tracks. All 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.560 the Italians Sicilian because of Sicilian. On one side of 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:49.399 the three were all the Sicilian. The other side were 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:53.359 the Ukrainians. So it was very weird. And that'll go 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.000 back to my name too, but it was they thought 0:18:56.040 --> 0:18:58.640 the town of Parma, when they're coming from Bronte Katania, 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.919 Sicily and they come into America, Parama, let's go live 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.800 for that. It's gotta be Italian town, right, So a 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:08.320 lot of Sicilians and like I said, Ukrainians. I'll go 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:10.719 to this because we're on the subject of Cleveland's. When 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.359 I was born, I was I had the cord wrapped 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.960 around my head on my neck multiple multiple times, and 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.560 when I came out, I was suffocated from I wasn't 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.520 a blue baby, but I was the next step down, 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:25.119 the next step up from that, so I couldn't breathe 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:27.480 and they thought they were gonna lose me. My parents. 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:31.800 My parents were Anthony Geraldo, my mother, Angelomettia Geraldo, my 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:36.800 sister Priscillamettia Geraldo, Neil Geraldo. How does that happen? Bob, Well, 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.040 let me tell you how it happens. So here I am. 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.000 I'm not born, they slap, they do the whole thing. 0:19:41.040 --> 0:19:43.440 I'm not breathing. They go into a panic back then, 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:46.640 so they take me. It takes a while they bring 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.520 me to be. I finally come in. My parents were 0:19:49.520 --> 0:19:51.840 so relieved that they didn't lose me and that I 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.359 didn't die and end up a blue, blue baby, and 0:19:55.800 --> 0:20:00.760 that's the end. Right. But the doc there's name was 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.960 Cornelius Cassidy. So I was supposed to be Nunzio Nunzio 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:11.000 or Nunziato Nunziato Geraldo. Right, Instead I became Neil and 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:14.960 not Cornelius because of doctor Cassidy. So that's how I 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:18.600 got my name, bringing me into this life. So from 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:21.000 the minute I was, I came out of the womb, 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.600 I was, I was, I was, I was all planned 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.280 out for me to be dealing with, Oh, the the 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:32.399 crazy uh oh, the emotional sickness of what that means, 0:20:32.480 --> 0:20:35.000 you know, suffocating the day you were born, you know is. 0:20:36.320 --> 0:20:40.000 So tell me more about this illness and other health problems. Yeah. 0:20:40.040 --> 0:20:44.080 So, so I went to school at a very early 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.200 age because I was born in December. My mother wanted 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.040 to get me out of the house, right, you gotta 0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.000 go to the house. But I was sick. My stomach 0:20:50.119 --> 0:20:53.479 was always terrible, always sick. And then I had this 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.040 emotional thing with this claustrophobia where the walls were always 0:20:57.040 --> 0:20:59.399 too tight and it was always too hot in those rooms. 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:03.200 And then I got to then I group from claustrophobia 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.080 to agoraphobia, where I had fear of the outside of 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:10.399 the with all people. You know, I was going. I 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:15.840 was going, like mentally off the rails. And every time 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:20.159 I go to school, elementary school, did the principal, the 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:21.960 people there would call my mother and say, you know, 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:23.400 you got to come and pick up your son. He's 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:25.240 sick again. It was all the time, and I barely 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:26.960 was in school. I went to a Catholic school. I 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:29.320 went to a public school first and a Catholic school, 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:32.760 and I missed confirmation and things that you normally do 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.640 in school because I was sick, always sick, and those 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.439 emotional things took a toll. But what they did do 0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:42.760 is when I was six years old, my father bought 0:21:42.840 --> 0:21:44.520 me a guitar because they wanted me to do duets. 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.600 My sister, who played accordion and so we can do 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:54.480 Italian songs. That was a good idea, except my uncle 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.720 Timmy on the other side of the family, my grandfather 0:21:57.720 --> 0:21:59.480 passed away at an early age, so he didn't have 0:21:59.520 --> 0:22:01.600 a father, and he was sort of the mistake of 0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:04.119 the family. He became a mentor, so in essence, he 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:05.920 kind of lived with our family, and he was only 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:09.160 four years older than me. So and from playing Italian 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:12.119 songs with my sister, then all of a sudden, the 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.399 Yardbirds are coming in and all the other bands, and 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:16.639 then he started feeding me with all these other things. 0:22:16.640 --> 0:22:21.159 So this emotional thing, the idea that I had a 0:22:21.160 --> 0:22:23.800 guitar in my hands, it just felt really normal and 0:22:23.840 --> 0:22:28.000 felt right, and it was escape from life because it 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.480 was really difficult for me to handle the emotional thing. 0:22:30.520 --> 0:22:32.760 I mean, I'd walked through the door at school and 0:22:32.800 --> 0:22:35.439 I immediately felt like I have to throw up, you know, 0:22:35.720 --> 0:22:38.600 my stomach got oh, I can't be here. This is terrible, 0:22:38.760 --> 0:22:41.040 and then it was it was. 0:22:41.000 --> 0:22:47.680 Awful, Okay, So mostly the problem was emotional mental. Did 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:51.280 you ever see a professional and how did you ultimately 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.400 get over it or do you still wrestle with these 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:55.120 issues today? Well? 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:56.919 What I found out today is that I have an 0:22:56.960 --> 0:23:00.879 abnormality in one part of my boy that there was 0:23:00.920 --> 0:23:04.280 actually a reason why the physical part. So the mental 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.160 part was real, but the physical part was real as well, 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.760 and that nobody you got to understand that Cleveland and 0:23:11.880 --> 0:23:14.840 Parma is on the west side of Cleveland, Shaker Heights 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.720 Pepper Pike is on the east side. When I was 0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:19.920 growing up, I didn't even know what golf was. There 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:21.800 was no golf course around where I lived. I didn't 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.080 know what that even was. On the east side, they 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.840 had golf courses and they had doctors, real doctors. It 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.280 was the rich side of the city. I lived on 0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.639 the foreside. So my parents I go to a doctor. 0:23:32.680 --> 0:23:35.520 I went to the Italian doctor. We say, eat more garlic, 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:38.800 e moore garlic, drink some wine. So I got a 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:43.280 little poor wine for dinner. You know, That's all they said. 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.080 You know, you didn't get it. You couldn't get it fixed. 0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.320 So the emotional part was really really difficult. But since 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:54.200 that physical part was with such a stress on my body, 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:58.199 I the two together were a nightmare. It was just 0:23:58.520 --> 0:23:59.800 I just it was horrible. 0:24:00.640 --> 0:24:02.919 So how did you ultimately get over it? Both of 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:04.879 these I got over it. 0:24:05.240 --> 0:24:07.280 One of the five people, you know, the hand of 0:24:07.320 --> 0:24:09.880 the five is the trace, quotes this girl. Her name 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.840 was Tara Bruno, Tera Bruno. You have to be listening 0:24:12.840 --> 0:24:14.480 to this when it comes out. You need to know this. 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.800 And she knows it already. Anyway, she was she wanted 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:21.439 to She was a friend of mine, and she I 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.200 think she thought it was more like a girlfriend boyfriend, 0:24:24.680 --> 0:24:27.159 but I was more. I was thinking it was just 0:24:27.200 --> 0:24:29.080 like a friend, like a girlfriend. I think it was 0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:32.000 like twelve years old or something. And she went to 0:24:32.040 --> 0:24:34.399 California and she came back and goes, I got to 0:24:34.440 --> 0:24:37.200 tell you something. Two really great things happen, and you 0:24:37.280 --> 0:24:39.199 kind of really love him. I says, Okay, what is it? 0:24:39.240 --> 0:24:43.720 He goes, number one, it's a avocado, Swiss cheese, lettuce, tomato, 0:24:43.880 --> 0:24:48.719 mayonnaise on rye toast sandwich. I went, what's an avocado? 0:24:49.000 --> 0:24:52.400 That sounds beautiful? She goes, Oh, it's great. It's great. 0:24:52.440 --> 0:24:54.480 I'm gonna make you want. I go fantastic, goes. And 0:24:54.520 --> 0:24:56.920 another thing that I found was this book called The 0:24:57.040 --> 0:25:00.080 Yea Ching. And I says, what is that? She goes, 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:03.480 it can predict your future, and her and I would 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:08.439 lay on these blankets in those Cleveland evenings in the summer, 0:25:08.480 --> 0:25:10.840 we look up and we see the stars. Well, we 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.760 threw the coins in the e ching, and I still 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:16.240 have that paper somewhere. I have to go find that 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:18.400 one day. I know I have it. I stored away 0:25:18.440 --> 0:25:21.440 in like momentos things. But we did throw it, and 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:25.960 it said that I would get my wish and my 0:25:26.080 --> 0:25:29.520 dream would come through. But you have to follow these 0:25:29.600 --> 0:25:33.159 rules and these laws of the spiritual realm of the eachan. 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:38.399 That book saved my life. Without that book, without Terra Bruno, 0:25:39.000 --> 0:25:43.440 I wouldn't be here period. That book did it without it? 0:25:44.520 --> 0:25:46.200 No way, no way. 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:52.399 You're a very verbal friendly guy, Yet you say you 0:25:52.440 --> 0:25:56.760 grew up internalized in not going to school that much. 0:25:57.080 --> 0:25:59.800 Where does all this verbal facility come from? 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:03.840 Because when I wasn't in school, I was reading. I 0:26:03.920 --> 0:26:06.560 love to read, and I would try to get every book. 0:26:06.640 --> 0:26:09.400 Library was my friend, every book I could possibly get 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.280 my hands on and read. And I to this day 0:26:12.560 --> 0:26:14.680 i'm and I avid read. I read all the time. 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.080 And it's really kind of the other part that's saved me. 0:26:17.119 --> 0:26:19.720 But with the eaching, let me just give you an 0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.080 idea where the Eaching lives in my life for a second. 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.919 The day that Tracy Coates saw me play at the 0:26:25.920 --> 0:26:30.359 brown Derby that night driving up and it was in 0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:33.360 a winter it was like February maybe something like that, 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:36.280 really bad, very cold, and I'm pulling up this place 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:38.199 and the way those gigs went. You play there for 0:26:38.280 --> 0:26:40.600 a month, right, you play for three weeks a month 0:26:40.640 --> 0:26:43.639 and you go to the next place three weeks. So 0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.520 I pull up. I'm just pissed off, angry, right, just like, 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:49.200 damn it, Why do I got to do this? This 0:26:49.280 --> 0:26:51.119 is terrible, sliding all over the road. I have my 0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:54.200 sixty three and Paula. I always have to park really 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:56.560 far away from the club. I have to walk. I'm 0:26:56.640 --> 0:26:59.000 dropping the guitar and the case, banging my hands that 0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:03.040 way right, whining like a little chooch. Right, So I go, 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:05.840 I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna use the eching 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:09.320 and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get really embraced 0:27:09.320 --> 0:27:11.280 in what this was going to give me today or 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:13.119 what I'm gonna be able to create myself. Let me 0:27:13.200 --> 0:27:15.640 just focus on it. I pull in a parking lot 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.240 and I swear to you, this is absolute truth. I 0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.720 pull into a parking lot. The very first place for 0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:25.199 parking opens up right in front of the door. I 0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:27.640 got there, shut the car off, I lit up a cigarette, 0:27:27.640 --> 0:27:30.280 opened the window, I smoked a cigarette. I went, this 0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:33.040 is something's gonna happen tonight, something profound is going to 0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:36.080 change my life. And that was the night that Tracy 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:39.080 Coate saw me. And that's how my life changed from 0:27:39.160 --> 0:27:39.679 that moment. 0:27:40.160 --> 0:27:43.760 Let's go back to the family. Were your parents born 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:46.600 in America or the Old Country in America? 0:27:46.720 --> 0:27:47.920 My grandparents came over. 0:27:48.880 --> 0:27:54.760 So how heavy an influence was the Italian background? 0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:59.359 Heavy? Heavy, really heavy. I mean, besides all the people 0:27:59.359 --> 0:28:02.040 on the street that were Sicilian. My next door neighbor 0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:04.720 was great. His last name was Alardo, and I couldn't 0:28:04.720 --> 0:28:06.639 pronounce it, and I'd give people nicknames. I called it 0:28:06.720 --> 0:28:09.400 mister Jim. He would be the guy who would cut 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:12.840 tires and staple tires on my soles and my shoes. 0:28:12.840 --> 0:28:14.520 And I walk in the house and I walked and crooked, 0:28:14.560 --> 0:28:16.880 and my mother goes, did you see mister Jim again? 0:28:16.920 --> 0:28:19.240 Did he fix your shoes? I go, he did. They're 0:28:19.240 --> 0:28:21.679 working real good right now, thanks mom. You know, so 0:28:23.480 --> 0:28:25.960 there was a lot of Italian spoken in the house. 0:28:25.960 --> 0:28:28.879 But you know, my father was really proud to be 0:28:29.040 --> 0:28:31.720 an Italian American, you know, born in the country, so 0:28:32.160 --> 0:28:35.199 we really were. They really didn't want to press the 0:28:35.280 --> 0:28:38.840 speaking of Italian. But the Italian songs were really important, right, 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:44.200 just like Catholic church and you know, all the Italian 0:28:44.240 --> 0:28:46.320 Catholic upbringing stuff very important. 0:28:46.360 --> 0:28:48.840 So and what did your parents do for a living? 0:28:49.640 --> 0:28:53.160 Father was a carpenter, one of the toughest human beings 0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:56.200 on earth, but one of the sweetest guys and just 0:28:56.280 --> 0:28:59.200 the greatest great if he's the fire, he's one of 0:28:59.240 --> 0:29:03.200 the five. Because this man is I love him so much. 0:29:03.240 --> 0:29:06.719 He passed away. He was ninety six. In fact, one 0:29:06.800 --> 0:29:09.280 day he called me, he goes, son of bitch. Son, 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:11.520 I don't think I'm ever gonna die. I go, pop, 0:29:12.120 --> 0:29:14.880 You're gonna die one day. Trust me, it's gonna happen, 0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:17.600 son a bitch. I don't think so very very tough. 0:29:18.160 --> 0:29:21.040 Really really, I can't even begin to tell you how 0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:24.320 to one story, he's got the snowblow where he bought 0:29:24.320 --> 0:29:29.000 for fifty bucks or whatever, and he's doing the sidewalks. 0:29:29.480 --> 0:29:31.800 All sudden it clogs up. He doesn't shut it off. 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:33.920 He puts his hand in there, clips off the little 0:29:33.920 --> 0:29:36.360 piece of his finger. It goes flying with the blood 0:29:36.360 --> 0:29:40.040 spray following it behind trailing. He goes, goes, he had 0:29:40.040 --> 0:29:41.920 this little thing he did like this, He goes, son 0:29:41.960 --> 0:29:45.000 of a bitch, son, go find my finger. And I 0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:46.760 went found his finger packed in the snow. He went 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:49.360 to the hospital and put it back on. So but 0:29:50.360 --> 0:29:54.000 that's that's the hardcore part of him. That the heart, 0:29:54.280 --> 0:29:58.840 the heart of him is. He never had a negative 0:29:58.880 --> 0:30:04.440 thing to say, my sickness and being home or anything. 0:30:04.480 --> 0:30:07.520 He would always say, you know, if that guitar makes 0:30:07.520 --> 0:30:11.040 you feel better, and playing the piano, do it, do it? Son. 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:12.720 You know he wanted me to be a carpenter, but 0:30:12.880 --> 0:30:15.040 he didn't force it on me. Let me give you 0:30:15.040 --> 0:30:17.320 an idea too. He was a carpenter, work for other people. 0:30:17.560 --> 0:30:20.000 He was at a house somewhere. He'd come home with 0:30:20.080 --> 0:30:22.400 a piano. I go, pap, where'd you get the piano from? Me? Go? 0:30:22.480 --> 0:30:24.320 Do you want it? I go, sure, I want it 0:30:24.360 --> 0:30:27.160 was an upright with some broken keys, and I said, sure, 0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:29.320 I'd like it, and he put it in the basement. 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:31.720 That's how I started playing piano because they gave it 0:30:31.720 --> 0:30:33.040 to somebody gave it to him because he was so 0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:38.640 kind and so thoughtful, thoughtful of a man that, you know, 0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:40.880 I wish I could be, you know, a quarter of 0:30:40.920 --> 0:30:42.960 the man he was, because he was just the greatest 0:30:43.000 --> 0:30:43.920 of all. 0:30:43.920 --> 0:30:44.720 What about your mother? 0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:47.800 My mother was more like a disciplinarian. 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:49.719 You know. 0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:53.280 I had this philosophy I think is wrong, where one 0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:55.160 parent has to be passive the other one has to 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:57.720 be assertive. I think that's wrong. But in my house 0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:00.720 it was that way. My mother was the assertive. My 0:31:00.720 --> 0:31:03.120 father was passive. Sometimes I walked through the door and 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:06.440 my father would say, don't say anything, it's not your fault, 0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:09.560 but you're gonna probably hear it's your fault. I say, okay, 0:31:09.880 --> 0:31:13.880 I walked through and there it was right. So so yeah, 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:16.080 she but she was the disciplinarian one. She was the 0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.000 one when I was playing, uh, you know, street football 0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:22.280 outside in the snow, and she'd come and yell out 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:24.760 out of the window, it's time to come in and practice, son. 0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:26.200 Come on, you got to come in and all the 0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:28.040 all the boys where all the you know, all my 0:31:28.080 --> 0:31:30.680 buddies are going man mine, are you coming in to play? 0:31:30.800 --> 0:31:33.440 You can't play when you know, give me shit about them. 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:36.480 Oh man, my hands will be frozen. I have to 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:41.520 play these stupid songs. I for not the Italian songs, 0:31:41.720 --> 0:31:44.160 but I took lessons for I think a year and 0:31:44.200 --> 0:31:46.520 a half or two years. It was horrible. The guy 0:31:47.440 --> 0:31:49.640 farted in the room. He smoked cigarettes and I had 0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:51.520 to deal with that was horrible. But my mother made 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:55.320 sure I played oh man, Joe and uh well Santa 0:31:55.360 --> 0:31:57.480 Luccia too. But you know, somebody else is like, oh, 0:31:57.600 --> 0:32:00.680 I'm not this isn't working for me. That part, that 0:32:00.760 --> 0:32:01.520 part ain't working. 0:32:02.080 --> 0:32:04.440 This was guitar lessons or piano listens. 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:05.120 This was guitar. 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:16.440 Yeah, okay, so you were playing the Italian songs. You know, 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:22.400 we're contemporaries. You're born in fifty five. What is the 0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:25.640 rock and roll inspiration? Was it the Beatles or did 0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:27.640 it come before that? Or was it none of that? 0:32:27.720 --> 0:32:29.400 And just your uncle in the yard bruders? 0:32:30.000 --> 0:32:33.400 Okay, it was It was in ninety It was I 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:36.240 think I was five years old. It's five years old 0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:41.320 and my mother was playing Heartbreak Hotel by Elvis and 0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:44.000 I was in the other room and I went, what 0:32:44.200 --> 0:32:46.880 is that? And I ran in I remember to this day, 0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:48.920 I'm listened. I sat in front of the year old 0:32:49.040 --> 0:32:52.440 enough to remember this. The Wi Fi, the high Fi sorry, 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:55.120 the hip fhissist, the console Hi Fi systems. 0:32:55.200 --> 0:32:56.120 Right of course you could. 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:58.160 Sit in the middle and then the two speakers were 0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:00.440 on the side and it had a two bamp fire 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.920 and I'm listening to this, and I'm here's what defined 0:33:05.520 --> 0:33:10.200 me in oh, well, sort of in the music world, 0:33:10.360 --> 0:33:15.000 right when I heard the sparseness of that song, Heartbreak Hotel, 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:19.280 Heartbreak Hotel, and I heard Elvis's voice resonate, the richness 0:33:19.280 --> 0:33:21.560 of it, and the reverb and all that spatialness. The 0:33:21.760 --> 0:33:24.080 guitar had its own part, but it was really defined 0:33:24.120 --> 0:33:26.640 and often the left and the bass was thumping, and 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:30.000 the drums were small, not small, big in sound, but 0:33:30.080 --> 0:33:34.320 a lot of air, reverb, distinct, huge reverb happening kick it. 0:33:34.760 --> 0:33:37.120 I deciphered what was going on with that record. At 0:33:37.200 --> 0:33:41.240 five years old, I says something about this is what 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.480 I want to do. I want to which I didn't 0:33:44.520 --> 0:33:46.640 know what producer, I didn't know what arrange any of 0:33:46.640 --> 0:33:49.560 that meant, but I didn't know that I wanted to 0:33:49.600 --> 0:33:52.960 make records that sounded like that. Not only did I 0:33:52.960 --> 0:33:55.280 want that. When I saw the RCAA dog the nipper 0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:57.400 go around and RCAA round and round and around, I 0:33:57.440 --> 0:34:01.080 went that labels really great looking and I loved art. 0:34:01.600 --> 0:34:03.520 I would have went to art school, but my mother 0:34:03.560 --> 0:34:05.760 said it was stupid, I shouldn't go, so I didn't go. 0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:08.319 I should have went, but I didn't go. But by 0:34:08.360 --> 0:34:11.719 seeing those labels, that was just as powerful as the 0:34:11.840 --> 0:34:15.120 music coming out to me. Right, So I knew then 0:34:15.280 --> 0:34:19.120 that I wanted to play instruments because I wanted to 0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:22.720 create that sound. I wanted that sound. I wanted that feel. 0:34:22.960 --> 0:34:26.799 You know that it was. It really was lonesome. It 0:34:27.000 --> 0:34:30.120 was a person walking to their death. Not in a 0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:32.319 negative not the darkness of it. But you know how 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:35.840 the somberness that the richness of that record to me 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.759 just really sunk into me. Really did it hit me? 0:34:41.320 --> 0:34:46.120 Okay, So did you watch the Beatles on Ed Sullivan? 0:34:46.760 --> 0:34:49.799 I did, I did it. I didn't get that as much. 0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.040 I didn't get it. I I don't. 0:34:52.880 --> 0:34:53.560 Know, what is that? 0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:58.160 Sixty four? It? Yeah, sixty four. I mean I got that, 0:34:58.280 --> 0:35:02.040 but it didn't it didn't resonate to me as as 0:35:02.239 --> 0:35:05.919 much as as you know hearing that office record and things. 0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:09.720 I I thought it was I thought it was amazing. 0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.160 I just I couldn't understand why they were screaming all 0:35:12.200 --> 0:35:14.400 the time, you know, they said, you know, I just 0:35:14.400 --> 0:35:17.000 don't understand all the screaming, you know, the headshaking. I 0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:19.879 don't know. I just it didn't kind of didn't kind 0:35:19.880 --> 0:35:22.840 of settle settle into me, you know. I mean I 0:35:23.320 --> 0:35:24.600 thought it was cool, but it wasn't. 0:35:24.760 --> 0:35:27.800 So tell me about your uncle of the Yardbirds. 0:35:28.080 --> 0:35:32.520 Yeah, well, Uncle Tim was he was great. He took 0:35:32.600 --> 0:35:34.399 me to see to who when I was twelve years old. 0:35:34.920 --> 0:35:39.480 That that changed my life. That was it, because I 0:35:39.520 --> 0:35:44.080 was listening to the Stones and the Kinks. You know. 0:35:44.120 --> 0:35:46.279 He had all those records and he'd you know, we'd 0:35:46.280 --> 0:35:48.160 have them and we'd play them all the time, and 0:35:48.200 --> 0:35:50.919 it was it was phenomenal. But he was the guy 0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:55.279 he was. He'd be the guy who said, you're gonna 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:57.520 listen to heart full of Soul and you're gonna play 0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:59.920 it right. And I'd be playing you a heartful soul. 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:02.040 You know, now, this is great. Go doesn't sound good? 0:36:02.400 --> 0:36:03.680 I said, what do you mean it doesn't sound good? 0:36:03.680 --> 0:36:05.480 He goes, it doesn't sound good? Coming out of an 0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:08.680 app you need like a distortion what is a distortion pillow? Well, 0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:10.000 you got to get what we got to get you 0:36:10.000 --> 0:36:12.560 on and that he was the guy. And then when 0:36:12.600 --> 0:36:15.879 I saw Pete Townsend play at the Music Carnival and 0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.279 the Who and Daltry with the swing and the mica 0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:21.160 a all like this and Peete just tearing it up, 0:36:21.200 --> 0:36:27.040 and then I saw that and I went, that's resonating 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:34.200 because it represented to me growing up in a blue 0:36:34.200 --> 0:36:37.600 collar town like Cleveland. It represented that it wasn't it 0:36:37.680 --> 0:36:40.800 wasn't it wasn't the Beatles. To me, it was that 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.920 that you know you're on stage, you're giving it everything 0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:46.040 you got, like the Jerry Lee Lewis blood is what 0:36:46.120 --> 0:36:48.080 I call it. You hit the stage, give it all, 0:36:48.480 --> 0:36:50.920 give it, give it all there, everything you have, and 0:36:50.960 --> 0:36:52.960 then when you walk away, you get off the stage, 0:36:53.040 --> 0:36:55.040 you go back to your other kind of life. So 0:36:55.080 --> 0:36:58.439 that really did it. And the concert was crazy because 0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:00.600 they only played three songs, and they destroyed all the 0:37:00.640 --> 0:37:03.239 gear because Pete didn't like the sun amps. And then 0:37:03.280 --> 0:37:05.319 they were walking out and then we went to come 0:37:05.400 --> 0:37:06.920 back in because they said the concert is still going 0:37:06.960 --> 0:37:09.560 to go on. They're gonna use the opening band equipment. 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.640 So we went in there. But that day I get 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:13.920 back home and I turned my little tiny epiphone INP 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:17.359 but I turned it up to ten and I went, ooh, ooh, 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:20.280 this is kind of fun, this is working. 0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:24.360 So so when did you first start playing in bands? 0:37:26.600 --> 0:37:29.480 When I was eleven eleven something like that, and we 0:37:29.520 --> 0:37:32.600 were eleven and twelve, and my uncle Tim was the 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:35.600 lead singer, so it was being four years older, and 0:37:35.719 --> 0:37:37.840 we called the band. It was stupid, stupid name. It 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:42.399 was called neok and Eel, really dumb, stupid name. But yeah, 0:37:42.520 --> 0:37:43.480 that was the first band. 0:37:43.640 --> 0:37:46.200 Well did you just rehearse to the living room or 0:37:46.239 --> 0:37:47.600 did you play gigs. 0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:49.840 In the basement rehearsing the base We did gigs. We 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:52.840 have to sneak me in through the back door, you know, 0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:54.680 and I'd get there to here as this little kid 0:37:55.000 --> 0:37:58.080 up there playing and you know, we were doing whatever. 0:37:58.200 --> 0:38:00.360 You know, yeah, but whatever. We had to play songs. 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.640 We were just playing them, and yeah, it was weird 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:06.080 because we'd be playing a memory, were playing them, going Wow, 0:38:06.160 --> 0:38:08.719 that guy looks like like I'm playing them. They going, 0:38:08.719 --> 0:38:09.799 what the hell is he gonna do? It looks like 0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:12.360 he's gonna beat the shit out of me. Where am 0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:14.600 I playing? What am I doing? Are they angry? You know, 0:38:14.680 --> 0:38:18.440 sneaking me into pars places behind in the backstage and stuff. 0:38:18.480 --> 0:38:20.520 So so we did that for a while. That didn't 0:38:20.600 --> 0:38:23.560 last very long, and then I started playing with other bands, 0:38:23.600 --> 0:38:25.480 other guys in the neighborhood and stuff. 0:38:26.120 --> 0:38:30.080 Okay, so you're in high school. To what degree are 0:38:30.080 --> 0:38:32.040 you playing gigs in a band? 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:35.040 Oh? Yeah, it was because because I was that younger 0:38:35.040 --> 0:38:37.520 guy was five years old in the first grade. So 0:38:37.640 --> 0:38:39.480 I don't know add up what that is. I don't 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.120 know what I was as a freshman or whatever. But 0:38:41.440 --> 0:38:43.439 I was playing. I was playing out all the time 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:46.360 with you know, different bands that we were putting together 0:38:46.400 --> 0:38:48.640 and stuff. Yeah, all the time. What did you do 0:38:48.680 --> 0:38:52.320 with the money there was? It really wasn't much. I 0:38:52.360 --> 0:38:54.560 don't remember eating after the gig. We'd go to eat 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:56.600 at like two o'clock in the morning, two thirty in 0:38:56.640 --> 0:38:58.520 the morning. That's all I remember. There was no money, 0:38:58.760 --> 0:39:00.680 you know, I don't know, no money. 0:39:01.080 --> 0:39:03.719 We just did it. And what did you use for equipment? Then? 0:39:06.320 --> 0:39:09.080 Well, I had my little epaphone app and then this 0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:12.560 guy down the street was he worked at the steel mills, 0:39:13.040 --> 0:39:15.280 and it was kind of cool. He had a band too, 0:39:15.920 --> 0:39:17.480 and the guitar player in that band his name was 0:39:17.560 --> 0:39:20.560 philm Megalarino, and he had this quiver when you know 0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.440 the vibrato, we called it a quiver, and he played 0:39:23.440 --> 0:39:26.600 this red guild starfire. I remember really well, and I remember, 0:39:26.719 --> 0:39:29.719 you know, sitting there that's all around, that eleven twelve 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:31.520 year old thing, and I'm watching him. I'm going, man, 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:34.200 he got a great quiver. I gotta get that thing right. 0:39:34.400 --> 0:39:36.880 But this guy that's where they rehearsed at his house 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:42.520 worked in the steel mills, and his uncle worked at 0:39:42.520 --> 0:39:47.279 his shipping location the dock, and Marshall amplifiers were coming 0:39:47.280 --> 0:39:49.400 through there. He was able to get him really cheap, 0:39:49.600 --> 0:39:54.640 really cheap. So I said, Papa, I'll work with you. 0:39:54.719 --> 0:39:56.759 I'll do whatever it is I have to do. These 0:39:56.760 --> 0:39:58.920 Marshall apps are like really great, and you know, I 0:39:58.960 --> 0:40:01.399 think they're only like, I know, three hundred, three hundred dollars. 0:40:01.480 --> 0:40:03.319 That's that's a lot of money. I said, I know, 0:40:03.360 --> 0:40:05.360 but I'll pay a bag pop. So I got a 0:40:05.400 --> 0:40:07.840 Marshall Marshall amp so I had there, I go, I 0:40:07.880 --> 0:40:10.440 had this, I had a stack when I was like 0:40:10.560 --> 0:40:13.160 thirteen or something or fight, I don't know, fourteen, something 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:13.440 like that. 0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:19.160 Okay, let's jump forward. M Rick says, you've got the gig. 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:22.560 What did that look like? Did you go back to 0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:24.360 Ohio and wait for the call to go on the 0:40:24.440 --> 0:40:25.839 road or stay in New York? 0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:28.680 Yeah, I went. I went back to Ohio. I went 0:40:28.680 --> 0:40:31.040 back to Ohio, he says, get your you know, things 0:40:31.040 --> 0:40:33.160 in order, affairs in order. So I got back there 0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:34.560 and I just I thought it was kind of funny 0:40:34.560 --> 0:40:36.239 because all the girls I thought were real cute, they 0:40:36.239 --> 0:40:37.680 didn't have time to talk to me. We're all of 0:40:37.680 --> 0:40:40.600 a sudden ready to talk to me now, which I 0:40:40.680 --> 0:40:43.759 thought that was. That was kind of cool, you know, yeah, yeah, 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:45.960 you know, cause man, they weren't paying attention to me. 0:40:46.000 --> 0:40:49.480 I was that weird, weird kid in school, you know that, 0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:52.000 you know, no loaner guy, nobody would talk to you know, 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:55.120 it's kind of weird, you know. I didn't feel like 0:40:55.160 --> 0:40:57.680 I really connected with most people there, and there I 0:40:57.719 --> 0:41:00.400 am walking around. But yeah, then I got my things 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.439 together and I had one guitar and SG gipson SG. 0:41:05.600 --> 0:41:08.319 I went up and then I Rick says, Okay, here's 0:41:08.320 --> 0:41:10.440 all the songs we're gonna do. But you need another guitar. 0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:12.640 You can't be playing that. I need you. You need 0:41:12.680 --> 0:41:14.759 to play BC Rich. That's what I play. He goes, 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:16.319 but you can have anything you want, but not what 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:18.000 I have. Then he hooked me up with BC Rich 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:20.120 and that's how I started playing the BC Rich Eagles 0:41:20.160 --> 0:41:24.120 through that. Now that the peculiar thing, you know, because 0:41:24.160 --> 0:41:27.719 life is this is a comedy, right, it really is, 0:41:28.640 --> 0:41:34.680 you meaning me? You join Rick Darringer, Okay, and you 0:41:34.760 --> 0:41:37.200 end up recording a record with Rick and it's called 0:41:37.239 --> 0:41:41.279 Guitars and Women. Now, then my life goes forward, you know. 0:41:41.360 --> 0:41:45.280 But a record Guitars and Women is kind of ironic 0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:47.840 in a way, right. So, and the other part was 0:41:48.160 --> 0:41:50.680 I didn't play much guitar and I played most mostly piano. 0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:53.600 If you if you want to hear some of the 0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:55.680 stuff I did. There's a song called Everything, another song 0:41:55.719 --> 0:41:58.960 called Hopeless Romantic. Now. I was playing a lot of 0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:01.640 piano back then, a lot of guitar too, But I 0:42:02.239 --> 0:42:04.560 respected Rick. He was such a great player. If he 0:42:04.560 --> 0:42:07.120 didn't want me to play guitar on it's okay, I'll 0:42:07.120 --> 0:42:09.360 play piano, but i'll play on the record. 0:42:09.960 --> 0:42:13.520 Okay, you go back to Ohio to get your affairs together. 0:42:14.760 --> 0:42:17.080 Then do you go to New York to rehearse? Where 0:42:17.120 --> 0:42:18.959 do you live? When do you go on the road? 0:42:19.880 --> 0:42:21.920 I go to live at my favorite place, the hotel 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:24.160 I was in when I got the call, the Wellington 0:42:24.200 --> 0:42:27.720 Hotel and what is it fifty eighth or fifty seventh 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:30.480 and seventh, And that was my home. And there was 0:42:30.520 --> 0:42:33.600 a guy named Pops there by the way. I am 0:42:33.640 --> 0:42:35.600 writing a book. I've been writing one for about ten years. 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:39.080 Hopefully I get it finished at one point there. But 0:42:39.120 --> 0:42:41.719 Pops was great. Pops would go and he'd get me 0:42:41.760 --> 0:42:43.640 some beer and pizza if I wanted, and he told 0:42:43.640 --> 0:42:46.120 me stories of all the old actors and actresses that 0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:48.759 came through the place. He was a phenomenal, phenomenal guy, 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:51.160 was a great guy. And I remember I always wanted 0:42:51.160 --> 0:42:53.960 a room by the e and the Wellington, you know, 0:42:54.080 --> 0:42:56.319 and it just with the neon light. It was just 0:42:56.560 --> 0:43:00.200 super super cool. So I lived there and and we 0:43:00.280 --> 0:43:02.480 just rehearsed for a little while and then off off 0:43:02.480 --> 0:43:04.239 in a row we went. And the way we went. 0:43:04.360 --> 0:43:08.800 Okay, any anxiety, any imposter syndrome? 0:43:09.920 --> 0:43:12.919 Yeah, Well, the first show. When I did the first show, 0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:17.440 I got back after and Rick goes, what did you do? Go? 0:43:17.960 --> 0:43:21.560 I go, Rick, I'm really sorry. I was so nervous. Right, 0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.279 I went from playing two hundred and fifty people to 0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:27.480 whatever five thousand I mean then went Eventually we did 0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:31.040 stadiums and did everything. And I said, I'm really sorry. 0:43:31.080 --> 0:43:33.279 I was just so nervous. I said, I'll tell you what. 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:35.760 I'll make you a deal. It will never happen again, 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:40.960 never ever happen again. And I told myself and I practiced. 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:43.960 I focused, I got strong, got the eaching book out, 0:43:44.200 --> 0:43:47.160 got it together. But that was I remember his face. 0:43:47.560 --> 0:43:51.720 I picked you because I felt you were the best one, 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:55.000 and I was like, oh boy, I really screwed this up. 0:43:55.520 --> 0:43:58.200 So never did again. 0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:01.120 Okay, you're a young man on the road. Are you 0:44:01.360 --> 0:44:03.040 partaking in the fruits of the road. 0:44:03.880 --> 0:44:04.960 What are you talking about, Bob? 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:07.120 Those fruits? 0:44:07.280 --> 0:44:14.040 What is that hanging fruits you're talking about? Well, back 0:44:14.360 --> 0:44:16.920 back to the thing where nobody paid attention. There was 0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.440 a lot of attention you paid at that time. But 0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:23.040 I but I was really I was really focused. I 0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:28.760 was focused on making a career and really really making 0:44:28.800 --> 0:44:32.680 sure I do this right, And I didn't. I didn't 0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.200 partake into drugs, you know, I didn't do any of that. 0:44:36.880 --> 0:44:40.000 You know. I drinking some stuff, but but nothing, nothing 0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:42.439 excessive at all. I practiced a lot, played a lot. 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:44.760 But yeah, it was all over the place. 0:44:46.040 --> 0:44:47.640 So how long did it last with Rick? 0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:50.000 I think it was about a year and a half. 0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:56.160 I think, yeah, we got done and uh we were 0:44:56.160 --> 0:44:59.280 doing the record guitars and women, and there was eventually 0:44:59.320 --> 0:45:02.440 there'll be tense songs, right, So I played on maybe 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:04.600 I think eight of them, I'm not sure eight and 0:45:04.640 --> 0:45:07.439 then there was two more to go, and and Rick says, 0:45:07.440 --> 0:45:09.239 you know, I don't really need you on the last two. 0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:12.680 And you know I was. I was kind of depressed 0:45:12.680 --> 0:45:14.400 a little. I said, you know, I could still do 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:15.920 any I can still do something. I could play some 0:45:15.960 --> 0:45:18.720 rhythm guitar if you want. I mean, I'll eve an engineer. 0:45:18.719 --> 0:45:20.640 If you want anything you want me to do, I'll 0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:23.040 do for you. And he says, no, I don't. I 0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:25.760 don't think so. And as a manager, you had two managers. 0:45:25.800 --> 0:45:30.080 One guy was named Teddy slatis. Well, Teddy Slatist said 0:45:30.120 --> 0:45:32.560 to me, he goes, how about a free trip feet 0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:38.360 a free ticket back to Cleveland. I went, mmm, mmm, interesting, 0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:42.440 a free ticket. He was always a smart ass, always 0:45:42.480 --> 0:45:46.799 a wise ass. Right, So I'm at the place. Here's 0:45:46.840 --> 0:45:49.880 back to the eaching. I'm at this. We recorded in Woodstock, 0:45:49.920 --> 0:45:54.320 by the way, which was good fun doing that, and 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:56.759 Kenny here and said, and myself and the crew were 0:45:56.800 --> 0:45:59.759 all living in one part, and Rick and the rest 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:02.840 and mind and the drummer. We're in another part. And 0:46:02.920 --> 0:46:04.840 they have they had the house, and we had this 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:08.480 little avery there. It was all totally cool. Anyway, So 0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:12.279 here's where the e ching comes back in. So you know, 0:46:12.320 --> 0:46:14.640 he says, well, Teddy says, okay, your free tickets ready, 0:46:14.880 --> 0:46:18.600 you know, leave tomorrow. Okay, I'll leave tomorrow. Well, thank you. 0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:22.800 So there I have I drink tea. I don't try coffee. 0:46:22.880 --> 0:46:24.520 I drink green tea, and a lot of it. So 0:46:24.560 --> 0:46:26.839 I'm sitting there a green tea and I'm thinking, oh geez, 0:46:26.880 --> 0:46:28.400 what am I going to do next. I'm reading my 0:46:28.480 --> 0:46:31.120 eaching book this thing, getting ready to go in the 0:46:31.120 --> 0:46:35.319 car to go from Woodstock to LaGuardia, which you know 0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:37.000 is one of the worst airports in the world, was 0:46:37.080 --> 0:46:40.120 even bad back then. I get in the car and 0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:41.920 I got my suitcase in there. I'm ready to go in, 0:46:42.000 --> 0:46:43.799 ready to close the door. The guy in the in 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:45.959 the studio the kitchen says, you know, somebody's on the phone. 0:46:45.960 --> 0:46:48.520 They need to talk to you. It's really important. I go, yeah, 0:46:48.719 --> 0:46:51.319 and that's really too important right now, I'm going back 0:46:51.360 --> 0:46:53.879 to Cleveland. Is any fun? He goes, No, I think 0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:55.520 you really need to take this call. Some guy from 0:46:55.560 --> 0:46:57.239 a record company, he said, needs to talk to you. 0:46:57.320 --> 0:46:59.759 And I says, oh, come on, he goes, He goes, 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:01.920 I think it's real. I said, all right, So I 0:47:01.920 --> 0:47:04.359 went inside and picked up the phone. The guy's talking. 0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:06.280 I'm thinking, okay, it was just like a little Louis 0:47:06.320 --> 0:47:09.000 busting my balls over there in Cleveland, giving me, you know, 0:47:09.040 --> 0:47:11.839 trying to be a jerk or whatever. And guy says, go, no, no, 0:47:12.000 --> 0:47:13.800 this is I'm serious. I want you to meet this 0:47:13.920 --> 0:47:17.480 singer who wants to put a band together and doesn't 0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:21.960 have a band and really looking for that partner. And 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:23.960 I said, well, all right, it's interesting. I had some 0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:26.399 other gigs, some other bands that were interested. I had 0:47:26.440 --> 0:47:31.640 two other bands that were in the play that I 0:47:31.680 --> 0:47:33.840 could to join or work with and stuff. So I 0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:35.440 wasn't like I had no gig, but I wanted to 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:37.239 be with Rick. I wanted to finish a record. So 0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:42.320 I'm talking to guy goes. He goes, listen, I Mike Chapman, 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.840 who produced. If I wasn't so romantic, i'd shoot you 0:47:45.880 --> 0:47:49.080 by Rick Darringer the record before the one you did 0:47:49.120 --> 0:47:53.600 just now. Saw you on the road with Rick and 0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:57.640 thought you would be a great person to be with 0:47:57.680 --> 0:48:01.200 this other person that I want you to meet, because 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.560 you you know song structure, you write songs, you multi 0:48:04.680 --> 0:48:07.319 versed in other instruments. You're You're not a show like 0:48:07.360 --> 0:48:09.680 a showbo guy. You know you want to play song. 0:48:09.760 --> 0:48:11.560 That's because I really want That's all I wanted to do. 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:16.120 I was not that type of player that just can virtuoso. 0:48:16.400 --> 0:48:18.080 I was never that guy. I just want to write 0:48:18.080 --> 0:48:21.800 songs and play play instruments. So I'm talking. He goes, Okay, 0:48:22.239 --> 0:48:25.120 all you got to do is meet this person in sir, 0:48:25.440 --> 0:48:27.440 Can you do it today? I says yeah. Can I 0:48:27.440 --> 0:48:30.400 get a free ticket to Cleveland? I had one, but 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:32.600 it could be no good anymore. Can I get a 0:48:32.640 --> 0:48:35.640 free ticket? He goes, no problem. I says, okay, what 0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:38.000 about if something goes good and I stay. He goes, 0:48:38.280 --> 0:48:41.239 I'll take care of you. I said, okay, fair enough. 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:43.000 Now I had a girlfriend at the time too, so 0:48:43.040 --> 0:48:47.000 this this she was living in Connecticut, but whatever, that 0:48:47.400 --> 0:48:51.719 wasn't going so good. So anyway, I go down. But 0:48:51.800 --> 0:48:53.839 before I go down, I mentioned I says, well, who's 0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:55.960 this guy? Maybe I heard of him. He says, no, 0:48:56.000 --> 0:48:57.560 it's not a guy. It's a girl. And I went 0:48:58.320 --> 0:49:01.799 a girl. He says, yeah, go is she good looking? 0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:04.680 I mean, is my Sicilian thinking? Is she good look? 0:49:04.719 --> 0:49:07.840 And he goes, yeah she is, but she's married. I go, oh, okay, 0:49:07.840 --> 0:49:10.440 well fair enough, and I was just playing way they 0:49:10.480 --> 0:49:12.800 having fun with you? You know? So what I did is 0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:16.560 I drove down in the in the sedan to s 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:21.440 I R got in there and met this person it's Patricia, 0:49:22.000 --> 0:49:26.080 and sat down at the piano, started playing some stuff 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:28.520 and said what are you thinking about? What is it 0:49:28.560 --> 0:49:31.000 you want to do? And then explained it all, did 0:49:31.040 --> 0:49:35.239 it all, and picked up a guitar and made some 0:49:35.360 --> 0:49:39.239 racket and we talked about stuff and it became a partnership. 0:49:39.280 --> 0:49:42.879 And in fact, the guy's name is Jeff Aldrich who 0:49:42.880 --> 0:49:45.279 called me from the record company who's a tremendous guy. 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:49.080 A great day and our guy really nice guy. So 0:49:49.160 --> 0:49:52.000 he picks up Patricia and I'm sitting at a couch. 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:53.960 He picks up Patricia. He goes like, does it drops 0:49:53.960 --> 0:49:56.920 her in my laby? And she and he says, here's 0:49:56.960 --> 0:49:59.480 your guy to her, here's your guy. And I went like, 0:50:00.080 --> 0:50:03.200 that's a little awkward here. You know, that's a little awkwards. 0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:07.120 First day, what's calling out here? So that's how that's 0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:08.400 how that kind of began. 0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:19.239 Okay, you're in Woodstock, you have the free ticket back 0:50:19.280 --> 0:50:25.080 to Cleveland. Forget the Derringer record and the other two tracks. 0:50:26.000 --> 0:50:29.000 Was this going back to Cleveland or you talked about 0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:31.919 some other opportunities. Was this the end of the road 0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:35.319 for you or just an interlude before you got the 0:50:35.320 --> 0:50:38.680 call to work with pat Oh? This was it was 0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:41.160 like a fifty to fifty. I had some opportunities. They 0:50:41.200 --> 0:50:43.280 weren't They weren't great. 0:50:43.440 --> 0:50:45.880 There were a couple of bands I thought they're okay 0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:48.239 because it was only meant to be in the meantime, 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:50.840 you know what I was tall Rick's I want you 0:50:50.880 --> 0:50:53.040 to come back. I want you to come back. Well, 0:50:53.320 --> 0:50:57.440 be careful of what you let go. You know, people 0:50:57.480 --> 0:51:00.200 have good memories. I mean, I mean, I will. I 0:51:00.239 --> 0:51:01.840 don't want to be a prick about anything. And I 0:51:01.880 --> 0:51:04.520 wasn't because I love Rick, He's a great guy. But 0:51:05.760 --> 0:51:08.000 I didn't like that way that was handle. I thought 0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:09.879 it was. It wasn't cool. I mean, if they would 0:51:09.880 --> 0:51:14.879 have said, uh, you know, you know, we look forward 0:51:14.920 --> 0:51:17.560 to you coming back. Rick wants to finish the record. Okay, good, 0:51:18.160 --> 0:51:20.040 thank you very much. Maybe I'll get a gig to 0:51:20.040 --> 0:51:21.880 me time. Well I could have, it's not a problem, 0:51:21.880 --> 0:51:23.680 but it wouldn't be a great gig. I'll and be 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:27.200 where I was. What reck right, So so that's that's 0:51:27.280 --> 0:51:29.080 kind of what happened. So it was like a fifty 0:51:29.120 --> 0:51:31.840 to fifty go back to Cleveland, you know, kick around 0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:34.239 there for a while, make the foot, few calls, see 0:51:34.280 --> 0:51:38.480 what's up. But I got the call before I left, right. 0:51:39.239 --> 0:51:42.480 So did Rick ever call you to come back? 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:43.360 Yes? 0:51:43.760 --> 0:51:44.840 And what did you tell him? 0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:48.399 I said, I'm sorry, I can't. I said I can't. 0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:52.799 I I'm an integral part of it. Another situation. And 0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.520 we're partners. I partnered up with somebody. You may not 0:51:56.640 --> 0:51:59.680 know it, but we were partners. And I remember playing 0:51:59.719 --> 0:52:02.360 the record the first record in a heated night for 0:52:02.520 --> 0:52:05.920 Johnny Winter, and I remember even talking to him and 0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:08.879 he said, oh man, yeah you got, this is your thing? 0:52:08.920 --> 0:52:09.279 You got? 0:52:09.880 --> 0:52:12.640 I said, okay, thanks, Johnny. I have a great picture 0:52:12.680 --> 0:52:16.000 you usould see one time. It's because Rick Deringer's wife 0:52:16.080 --> 0:52:18.560 was named Liz, and she was more than one Liz. 0:52:18.560 --> 0:52:20.360 She was Liz Liz, I called her. But I was 0:52:20.440 --> 0:52:23.080 like her boy toy. She would take me around because 0:52:23.120 --> 0:52:25.799 I was twenty just turned twenty two, and she would 0:52:25.840 --> 0:52:28.120 take me around to all these places like Studio fifty 0:52:28.120 --> 0:52:30.680 four and all these different clubs, Maxes and all these things, 0:52:30.680 --> 0:52:33.759 and she would parade me around. And she was a 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:37.080 huge social lighte and she thought it was funny because 0:52:37.480 --> 0:52:39.280 I had this rope belt and a pair of jeans 0:52:39.280 --> 0:52:42.040 and white T shirt. Everybody else was dressed up and 0:52:42.080 --> 0:52:44.000 there I am walking around like a goofball you go 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:46.200 out of Cleveland like Jethrow or something. I felt like him, 0:52:46.239 --> 0:52:49.640 you know. And so I was going around and doing 0:52:49.680 --> 0:52:50.320 all that stuff. 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:55.600 Okay, so old Rich introduces you to Pat. You work 0:52:55.640 --> 0:52:56.880 out what's the next step. 0:52:58.040 --> 0:53:01.400 Next step is well, next step, here's your guy boom 0:53:01.440 --> 0:53:04.479 in my lap, And I says Okay, now what goes? Well, 0:53:05.040 --> 0:53:08.719 go back to Cleveland. But then you only got two 0:53:08.760 --> 0:53:10.480 days come back because you guys got to put a 0:53:10.480 --> 0:53:13.080 band together, You got to get going, and you need 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:14.719 to go through all kinds of stuff. So I says, 0:53:14.800 --> 0:53:16.200 They says, where you want to stay? Do you want 0:53:16.200 --> 0:53:21.640 to stay at the may Mayflower, the Mayflower Hotel? I says, no, 0:53:21.680 --> 0:53:23.960 I'm want to stay at Wellington. They say the Wellington. 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:27.320 I said, yeah, I like the Wellington. Are you sure? 0:53:27.520 --> 0:53:29.840 I go? Yeah, I want to stay at the Wellington. 0:53:30.480 --> 0:53:32.160 It was my home away from home. I liked it. 0:53:32.520 --> 0:53:34.600 They would add a good vibe to it. So I left, 0:53:35.080 --> 0:53:36.600 go back to Cleveland. Like I said, That's when all 0:53:36.600 --> 0:53:40.160 the girls that didn't have time for me pay attention 0:53:40.239 --> 0:53:41.799 all of a sudden, where you know, they kind of 0:53:41.840 --> 0:53:44.000 knew where I was. So I stayed there for just 0:53:44.040 --> 0:53:46.160 a couple week maybe, and then I came up and 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:47.120 started to work. 0:53:48.600 --> 0:53:52.920 Okay, how long from that initial meeting before you go 0:53:52.960 --> 0:53:54.080 in the studio. 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:58.080 Well, that would be probably May of nineteen seventy nine. 0:53:58.080 --> 0:53:59.759 We didn't go in the studio until I think it 0:53:59.800 --> 0:54:04.960 was August, July or August maybe the beginning of May 0:54:05.040 --> 0:54:07.719 is when we started Mart April, i'd have to look 0:54:07.760 --> 0:54:08.120 at it. 0:54:08.320 --> 0:54:11.640 That's pretty soon. So what happened in those intervening months? 0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:14.319 Oh yeah, Well, first of all, we had to put 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:19.800 a band together, so I had to audition players, people, 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:22.480 and then at the whole time Patricia and I were 0:54:22.520 --> 0:54:28.200 working together, I told her the first time we talked 0:54:28.239 --> 0:54:30.640 and played, I says, you know, you got a really 0:54:30.680 --> 0:54:33.719 beautiful voice. Beautiful voice. I'd hate to be the guy 0:54:33.840 --> 0:54:36.920 to wreck that voice. I says, you understand that the 0:54:36.960 --> 0:54:40.239 way you're going to sing next is not what you've 0:54:40.280 --> 0:54:42.880 ever done before, because we're going to find a breaking 0:54:42.920 --> 0:54:44.920 point in your voice where that high stuff is not 0:54:44.960 --> 0:54:47.879 going to be falsetto. It's going to be real. It's 0:54:47.880 --> 0:54:50.440 going to be your real voice. You ain't gonna go 0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:53.879 to falsetto. What is that? What's that going to happen? 0:54:53.960 --> 0:54:55.560 I go, I'll show you. We're going to raise these 0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:57.640 keys and these courses you're going to have to really 0:54:57.640 --> 0:54:59.279 belt out. They're going to have to get in that 0:54:59.400 --> 0:55:03.279 range to support what's going to be underneath it. Right, 0:55:03.840 --> 0:55:07.000 So her and I worked a lot on that. So 0:55:07.080 --> 0:55:12.000 we had because to understand, Patricia, is that not that 0:55:12.040 --> 0:55:15.040 there's anything wrong with being the rock chick, but that's 0:55:15.320 --> 0:55:19.319 not what she was. She was a highly educated, intelligent 0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:22.280 person that came from a middle class family in Long Island, 0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:26.400 and she went to school. She she was you know, 0:55:26.640 --> 0:55:29.440 she studied singing, She she did all the oppera. She 0:55:29.480 --> 0:55:31.879 just she she knew all those things. She wasn't kicking 0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:35.120 around clubs for a couple of years. That wasn't her. 0:55:35.520 --> 0:55:39.760 But what she wanted to get into was a different world. 0:55:40.040 --> 0:55:43.200 And I was that. I was representing that world that 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:47.120 I knew the most. So we worked hard on that. 0:55:47.440 --> 0:55:50.360 And then uh, and then I found I found different musicians. 0:55:50.960 --> 0:55:53.400 Got another guitar player because they had a good looking haircut. 0:55:53.440 --> 0:55:55.719 He looked good. I don't care about it, did anything else. 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:57.279 He looked good, and I thought that was great. The 0:55:57.280 --> 0:55:59.840 bass player would play with her in a lounge band prior. 0:56:00.880 --> 0:56:06.359 And then I brought my drummer from Darrow that worked 0:56:06.360 --> 0:56:08.600 with Reck and that was Byron Grobacker. I brought him 0:56:08.600 --> 0:56:09.960 in for the two. Oh no, I didn't bring him 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:11.680 in yet. I'm sorry, sorry saying no, no, no. This was 0:56:11.719 --> 0:56:14.080 for the record. Then I got a drummer and then 0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:17.400 we rehearsed in New York and then we came to 0:56:17.400 --> 0:56:18.560 California to make the record. 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:22.600 Okay, a lot of times when people are relatively green, 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:25.279 they don't really want the band. They want to use 0:56:25.320 --> 0:56:29.879 studio musicians, right, So whose idea was it to make 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:30.560 it a band? 0:56:31.280 --> 0:56:34.719 Well, because in the beginning, what Patricius tried to do 0:56:34.880 --> 0:56:38.319 was work with studio musicians and a producer to do 0:56:38.520 --> 0:56:42.520 what she wanted to do. But nobody was listening. They 0:56:42.640 --> 0:56:46.480 had her wanting to sound like again, there's nothing wrong 0:56:46.560 --> 0:56:49.640 with this, having her sound like Linda Ronstad on this song, 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:53.120 having sound like this on this song, but not totally 0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:56.640 missing a point. And even after she did these demos 0:56:56.640 --> 0:56:59.040 of five songs or whatever she did with this studio musician, 0:56:59.160 --> 0:57:02.239 she record company guy says, listen, don't don't get your 0:57:02.280 --> 0:57:04.680 hope up. You know this, you know, and then they 0:57:04.719 --> 0:57:07.439 shoved it. They says, no, this isn't this isn't where 0:57:07.440 --> 0:57:10.000 it needs to be. That's where Mike Chapman came in. 0:57:10.800 --> 0:57:14.200 So Mike who referred me because he thought and he 0:57:14.239 --> 0:57:16.360 was supposed to produce only four songs of the record 0:57:16.360 --> 0:57:19.360 the first record, So Mike's idea was because he was 0:57:19.360 --> 0:57:22.960 busy doing Commander Chapman. He wasn't Commander Chapman yet, it 0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:25.960 came later, but he was, you know, the Knack and everybody. 0:57:26.040 --> 0:57:28.520 So he was pretty hot. So he didn't have the 0:57:28.560 --> 0:57:31.960 time for us, you know. And the best thing that 0:57:32.080 --> 0:57:35.440 he did was have his engineer, Pete Coleman work and 0:57:35.520 --> 0:57:38.560 him and I together were a great team. We were 0:57:38.600 --> 0:57:42.439 we had the greatest time, and we aligned beautiful. Right. 0:57:42.560 --> 0:57:47.600 So so yeah, so Mike was on board, and we 0:57:47.600 --> 0:57:50.600 were just going to come to LA and make the record. 0:57:50.880 --> 0:57:55.800 Okay, you come to LA, do you know, as Mike 0:57:55.880 --> 0:57:58.280 told you what songs you want to record, you get 0:57:58.320 --> 0:57:59.880 there and he goes hear the songs. 0:58:00.520 --> 0:58:03.160 Yeah, he told us the songs. He goes four songs, 0:58:03.200 --> 0:58:06.760 I think a couple of them were he wrote, were 0:58:06.800 --> 0:58:10.320 probably from Exile or one of the other bands he 0:58:11.320 --> 0:58:17.520 worked with. But and then subsequently what happened was the 0:58:17.560 --> 0:58:20.760 record company would release a couple of those songs that failed. 0:58:21.560 --> 0:58:25.120 So and meanwhile, all the other tracks that Pete and 0:58:25.200 --> 0:58:29.560 I did had substance, you know, they were Heartbreaker, we 0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:32.240 Lived for Love. There were all these other songs like Clone, 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:37.840 sleeps Alone, these these other things. So right then Mike 0:58:37.960 --> 0:58:41.760 was getting a little angry because the record companies released 0:58:41.840 --> 0:58:43.080 songs and his aren't working. 0:58:43.920 --> 0:58:44.480 And then. 0:58:46.080 --> 0:58:48.120 And of course we Lived for Love became the second 0:58:48.160 --> 0:58:51.240 signal a single, the one that I wrote, and Heartbreaker 0:58:51.360 --> 0:58:53.640 was first. But even that they it didn't catch on 0:58:53.720 --> 0:58:55.360 right away because they said there was too much guitar 0:58:55.640 --> 0:58:59.360 on it. But that was where disco. We were right 0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:03.200 on that board. Are we gonna redefine rock music at 0:59:03.200 --> 0:59:05.479 that point and break away from disco? And that's where 0:59:06.600 --> 0:59:10.720 the guitar focus of Heartbreaking movement forward. So does that 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:11.480 answer your question? 0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:14.600 Yeah, okay, you know it's a long time ago. Do 0:59:14.640 --> 0:59:19.720 you remember which four songs were Chapman, Yes, okay, which one? 0:59:20.240 --> 0:59:23.360 It was? In the heat of the night right if 0:59:23.400 --> 0:59:24.680 you think you know how to love me? 0:59:25.400 --> 0:59:25.560 Right? 0:59:27.000 --> 0:59:36.120 He brought in I Need a Lover from Johnny Mellicamp Cougar. Oh, 0:59:36.160 --> 0:59:39.600 and then what was the other one? I'm trying to 0:59:39.600 --> 0:59:42.840 think of it, ken me what or what it was, but. 0:59:43.120 --> 0:59:45.320 It looks like I know, you don't the sweet cover. 0:59:45.640 --> 0:59:47.600 Oh, there you go, No you don't, there you go. 0:59:47.800 --> 0:59:48.240 That's it. 0:59:48.480 --> 0:59:53.400 Yeah, okay. So in terms of recording, you and Peter 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:57.560 Coleman did Heartbreaker and the rest of the you know, 0:59:57.840 --> 0:59:59.120 we live for Love, et cetera. 0:59:59.640 --> 1:00:01.800 Yep, Yeah, Pete and I did. It was great. We 1:00:02.120 --> 1:00:04.040 had We had the best time. You know. It was 1:00:05.280 --> 1:00:10.080 great because I loved engineering, and even when I did 1:00:10.160 --> 1:00:13.680 the Derringer record with Todd Rudgren producing the guitars at 1:00:13.720 --> 1:00:16.840 women thing, I was always around, you know, the studio. 1:00:16.960 --> 1:00:19.680 Even prior to joining Rick, I was in the studio 1:00:19.680 --> 1:00:22.440 in Cleveland too, in other bands. We were doing original 1:00:22.680 --> 1:00:25.040 music and things like that. So I really loved the 1:00:25.080 --> 1:00:27.680 engineering part. And it goes back to Heartbreak, Hotel here 1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:30.360 in those tones and all that other stuff going on. Right. 1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:34.520 But yeah, so Pete and I were great. I mean 1:00:34.560 --> 1:00:38.000 we take turns in different machines of twenty four track 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:41.640 or the two inch or the half inch and just 1:00:41.680 --> 1:00:43.960 everything and everything. It was just beautiful. 1:00:44.680 --> 1:00:48.320 Okay, how did you feel at the time, because really 1:00:48.360 --> 1:00:51.040 the breakthrough was the cover of I Need a Lover 1:00:51.120 --> 1:00:54.080 and at that point he was still Johnny Couger. It 1:00:54.120 --> 1:00:56.040 was one of those early albums. It had no traction. 1:00:56.520 --> 1:00:59.200 Did you want to do that? Did you care? Did 1:00:59.240 --> 1:01:01.920 you think it was going to be good? I? 1:01:02.000 --> 1:01:09.040 Well, I I mean I I I understand the the 1:01:09.120 --> 1:01:11.760 campiness of a girl singing I need a lover because 1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:14.320 only guys were singing kind of stuff, and then for 1:01:14.360 --> 1:01:16.880 a girl to do it. I got it. I I 1:01:17.000 --> 1:01:19.920 thought it. I thought it was pushing, just like a 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:22.560 couple of records that follow certain songs were pushing towards 1:01:22.560 --> 1:01:26.240 the the uh, this is an important thing to tell 1:01:26.280 --> 1:01:29.000 you too. It was pushing more towards the focus of 1:01:29.440 --> 1:01:32.080 you know, we can sell this by making it the 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:34.400 girl talk about this, and we can sell it this way. 1:01:34.440 --> 1:01:38.520 We can do this right. So the part for me 1:01:38.640 --> 1:01:40.840 is my sister kind of cursed me when I was younger. 1:01:40.880 --> 1:01:43.280 She said I'd be surrounded by women my whole life, 1:01:44.040 --> 1:01:47.000 and she was right right. But I never looked at 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:51.560 Patricia as as the female chick singer. Never. I looked 1:01:51.560 --> 1:01:54.880 at her as a bandmatee and a partner. Right. So 1:01:54.880 --> 1:01:57.760 so when it was it all felt like this, the 1:01:58.360 --> 1:02:00.760 the like the like a Linda ron st Er, just 1:02:00.760 --> 1:02:03.880 the female the focus of this. Never I never looked 1:02:03.880 --> 1:02:08.400 at that that way. And I I must say I did. 1:02:08.880 --> 1:02:12.520 I did do something like that with the True Love record. 1:02:12.560 --> 1:02:14.560 I did cost to be the boss. I you know, 1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:18.080 I had you know her do that, which would be 1:02:19.040 --> 1:02:23.200 a reversal of the sex reversal right instead of bb kings. 1:02:23.560 --> 1:02:25.120 You know, it's a girl singing I'm the cost to 1:02:25.120 --> 1:02:28.800 be the boss, right, So I was I was just 1:02:28.880 --> 1:02:31.160 like that. I suppose I was like Mike in that point. 1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:36.000 So I can't you know, we all make we all 1:02:36.040 --> 1:02:38.880 do stupid and good stuff. Okay, okay, tell me get 1:02:38.920 --> 1:02:41.880 out of that. The first album I Love, We Will, 1:02:42.000 --> 1:02:42.880 We Live for Love? 1:02:43.280 --> 1:02:45.160 You wrote it? Tell me how you wrote it? 1:02:47.440 --> 1:02:50.240 I wrote it. I was with my girlfriend at the 1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:53.680 time and we were living in Los Angeles and we 1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:56.760 needed another song for the record, two songs, and I went, okay, 1:02:56.840 --> 1:02:59.880 let me, let me scratch something together. And I started 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:04.680 writing it there and I was just coming together, and 1:03:04.720 --> 1:03:08.760 I'm thinking, how do you write a story about something 1:03:09.920 --> 1:03:13.840 that could apply for what the project you're doing? Like, 1:03:13.880 --> 1:03:15.320 how do you how do you make this song we 1:03:15.360 --> 1:03:18.120 Live for Love? Why would you do a song called 1:03:18.160 --> 1:03:18.760 we Live for Love? 1:03:19.160 --> 1:03:19.400 Well? 1:03:19.640 --> 1:03:22.160 So I had a good first line, and then I 1:03:22.320 --> 1:03:26.480 just kept calling on it, right, and and then you know, 1:03:26.520 --> 1:03:29.600 we have a running joke that Pittrish always says it 1:03:29.640 --> 1:03:32.440 wasn't written about her, and it was written about somebody else. 1:03:32.440 --> 1:03:34.200 And I always say no, I wrote it about you, 1:03:35.200 --> 1:03:37.920 So I did it as a reversal. So I got 1:03:38.040 --> 1:03:40.560 off to leave that up in the air. 1:03:40.760 --> 1:03:47.400 Okay. So at the time, you know, Chrysalish has some 1:03:47.480 --> 1:03:53.040 American success with Blondie, but it's not the equivalent to 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:58.200 Warner Brothers or Columbia. And it looks like the record 1:03:58.280 --> 1:04:02.440 has a slow percolation. And then you start to hear 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:05.840 the Melancamp cover and you start to hear it on 1:04:05.960 --> 1:04:09.720 all these stations in LA. What was the experience on 1:04:09.880 --> 1:04:11.120 your side of the fence. 1:04:12.120 --> 1:04:14.480 Well, I didn't really hear I Need a Lover. Mostly 1:04:14.760 --> 1:04:17.320 I heard when Heartbreaker hit it. That's the first time 1:04:17.360 --> 1:04:20.480 I heard a record song from that record come out. 1:04:20.560 --> 1:04:23.360 And when I heard that, I just went ooh, now 1:04:23.360 --> 1:04:25.560 that's moving. Some are that sounds really in a compression 1:04:25.600 --> 1:04:26.680 all working and stuff? You know. 1:04:26.760 --> 1:04:29.720 Well, I guess what I'm saying is the record is finished? 1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:33.440 How long until it comes out? And what do you do? 1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:35.800 Do you go on the road and at what point 1:04:35.840 --> 1:04:38.680 do you say this is work and we have something here. 1:04:39.400 --> 1:04:42.360 Well, and what happened as they were releasing those songs. 1:04:42.440 --> 1:04:44.760 I think they even tried. If you think you know 1:04:44.800 --> 1:04:46.680 how to love me, you know, put it out there 1:04:46.760 --> 1:04:49.720 lit no radio traction, and they did I need a 1:04:49.720 --> 1:04:52.160 lover too, and that didn't really get traction in the beginning. 1:04:52.320 --> 1:04:54.400 It was just kind of floating around. It was heartbreaking 1:04:54.480 --> 1:04:57.720 that took it so but to answer the question, we 1:04:57.760 --> 1:04:59.840 went and I can't remember when our first gig was. 1:05:00.320 --> 1:05:02.680 We got there and I was using these new amps. 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:05.600 I got these little Marshall combos and they all blew up. 1:05:06.520 --> 1:05:08.480 I think we maybe made it through the set. I 1:05:08.480 --> 1:05:10.400 can't remember if we made it all through or not, 1:05:10.480 --> 1:05:13.000 but I know that there was not a lot of 1:05:13.000 --> 1:05:18.200 people there. I don't know, maybe thirty forty fifty, I 1:05:18.200 --> 1:05:21.280 can't remember, but I do know that the next night 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:23.240 there was a few more and next night and it 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:27.760 happened really quick, really really quick. It just seemed to 1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:32.640 kind of escalate really fast, and we got it to 1:05:32.680 --> 1:05:34.600 the point where we couldn't leave the stage and we'd 1:05:34.600 --> 1:05:37.680 do the set over twice because we didn't have enough songs, 1:05:37.880 --> 1:05:41.640 right we do, Richie Vallence, come on, let's go some 1:05:41.760 --> 1:05:44.480 other covers that I throw out through out there that 1:05:44.520 --> 1:05:49.000 people seem to like. So we yeah, just started really 1:05:49.120 --> 1:05:52.160 escalating and then we were asked to play open for 1:05:52.200 --> 1:05:55.520 a different couple bands of any money. We opened for 1:05:55.600 --> 1:05:57.160 him once in New York. I think it was at 1:05:57.160 --> 1:06:01.800 the Central Park thing or something. Eddie's mother came up 1:06:01.840 --> 1:06:05.000 and she goes, Eddie, you should be opening for them, 1:06:08.120 --> 1:06:10.800 and then you know, crazy, he's you know, he's like 1:06:10.880 --> 1:06:14.000 Rodney Danger. Yeah, thanks, I'm sure, okay, yeah, all right, 1:06:15.440 --> 1:06:18.320 so and then yeah, and then we had another guy 1:06:18.360 --> 1:06:21.280 we opened for, David Werner, and he was from Pittsburgh. 1:06:21.320 --> 1:06:24.000 He was one of the bands too that that wanted 1:06:24.040 --> 1:06:27.080 me to come along early on and he said, you know, 1:06:27.760 --> 1:06:29.840 I don't think you guys should be playing some of 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:32.160 those songs if you're opening up for me. I says, well, 1:06:32.200 --> 1:06:34.040 guess what, David, We're not going to open up for 1:06:34.040 --> 1:06:36.120 you no more. You're gone. We're moving on. 1:06:37.880 --> 1:06:43.200 So between the first and second Bennett Tuck albums, how 1:06:43.280 --> 1:06:44.200 much did you work? 1:06:44.280 --> 1:06:48.960 Live? Oh? A lot, a lot. We went to Europe 1:06:49.000 --> 1:06:52.160 right away. Actually I almost wish we went to Europe 1:06:52.160 --> 1:06:54.640 first and it came Europe to America. That's always a 1:06:54.680 --> 1:06:59.160 really good move. Yeah, we worked a lot, like a lot, 1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:03.560 and we had to go right from the road into 1:07:03.600 --> 1:07:05.720 the next record, which was Crimes and Passion, And the 1:07:05.760 --> 1:07:08.480 reason we had to change the producer at that time 1:07:08.600 --> 1:07:11.960 was because Mike well, I think it was so pissed 1:07:11.960 --> 1:07:14.560 off that we had more success with the other songs 1:07:14.600 --> 1:07:18.040 and not his songs. And the story was that he 1:07:18.080 --> 1:07:20.240 didn't get along with the record company, Terry Els, and 1:07:20.280 --> 1:07:22.320 they had an argument in a fight or whatever. Maybe 1:07:22.320 --> 1:07:23.960 they did, maybe that's the truth of it. It just 1:07:24.040 --> 1:07:27.160 didn't feel to me like that's what it was. It 1:07:27.200 --> 1:07:31.720 felt like sour grape sort of, you know, So they 1:07:31.760 --> 1:07:35.320 wanted a different producer. We met with Keith also. I said, yeah, 1:07:35.320 --> 1:07:37.760 well this this is okay. I was really just one. 1:07:37.800 --> 1:07:39.720 I really want to do it Pete, him and I 1:07:39.840 --> 1:07:41.960 together like we did the first time, you know, that 1:07:42.040 --> 1:07:43.800 I'd be credited and we would do you know, do 1:07:43.920 --> 1:07:49.720 it like a partnership. But that didn't happen, so we went. 1:07:49.760 --> 1:07:53.280 But it was a good idea in retrospect, because it 1:07:53.360 --> 1:07:57.360 was it was taking the band like a live band 1:07:57.400 --> 1:07:59.760 and going into the studio making a record. That's why 1:07:59.760 --> 1:08:03.520 it's sounds different. But I missed the air of of 1:08:03.520 --> 1:08:06.000 of the MCA Whitney where we did the Heat of 1:08:06.000 --> 1:08:10.480 the Night, the way Pete's sounds, his tones where there's 1:08:10.520 --> 1:08:14.280 a lot of air in it, and also during crimes 1:08:14.280 --> 1:08:17.880 of passion. I always like to do record maybe the 1:08:17.960 --> 1:08:21.960 song or songs that have the strongest has the most 1:08:21.960 --> 1:08:26.680 strength behind them in something that you're gonna be able 1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:28.400 to play the record company that you know, if you 1:08:28.439 --> 1:08:30.519 do two songs first, the three songs they have the 1:08:30.520 --> 1:08:32.400 record company come in, come in and get them charged 1:08:32.479 --> 1:08:34.920 up right, and get those out of the way. And 1:08:34.960 --> 1:08:38.519 one of them was housed for children and and that 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:40.200 was one of the I think was the first song 1:08:40.240 --> 1:08:43.240 that Patricia was going to sing for the record. And 1:08:43.400 --> 1:08:47.000 I remember Keith gave me the keys to his poor 1:08:47.120 --> 1:08:49.120 She goes, if you want to just go cruise around, 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:51.280 you know, I'll just do the vocal here with Patricia, 1:08:51.280 --> 1:08:52.880 and when you come back, you can do over dumps, 1:08:52.920 --> 1:08:54.720 we can do the other stuff. I go, okay. So 1:08:54.760 --> 1:08:57.479 I took the keys and I came back Patria. Patricia 1:08:57.640 --> 1:09:00.000 was in the studio crying on the floor, and I go, Pete, 1:09:00.120 --> 1:09:03.360 I mean, Keith, where's Patricia? She goes. He says, she's 1:09:03.439 --> 1:09:05.479 in there. She's in the studio. I go, what's the matter? 1:09:05.800 --> 1:09:10.639 He goes, Things are going so good? Oh, yet what happened, 1:09:10.640 --> 1:09:12.400 So I went on, I talked to her. So I 1:09:12.439 --> 1:09:16.080 had to go in and start rebuilding a different mix 1:09:16.120 --> 1:09:18.240 for her in her headphones to be able to sing, 1:09:18.280 --> 1:09:22.120 and and all of a sudden she started singing the 1:09:22.120 --> 1:09:25.760 way she was normally she normally sang. She felt more 1:09:25.800 --> 1:09:29.120 comfortable with me in there from heat to night and 1:09:29.160 --> 1:09:33.000 working with Pete and I never left. And that's that's 1:09:33.040 --> 1:09:37.320 why the producer chair kind of and the credited part 1:09:37.360 --> 1:09:40.439 of it began was during that. For that reason, I 1:09:40.520 --> 1:09:42.400 never left. Then. I was there for everything. 1:09:50.000 --> 1:09:53.040 Okay, you know, Keith is no longer with us, but 1:09:53.120 --> 1:09:56.040 he had some great success with Leetwood Mac and others. 1:09:57.120 --> 1:09:59.840 You worked with a lot of producers. What's your take 1:09:59.880 --> 1:10:02.479 on Keith. Did he add anything? Yeah? 1:10:02.520 --> 1:10:06.960 I thought he was great. What he added was letting, 1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:11.599 letting the artists just just do it. He would record 1:10:11.600 --> 1:10:13.920 it to make sure it was recorded properly. He used 1:10:13.920 --> 1:10:18.400 this Dolby, which which not a lot of people used 1:10:18.479 --> 1:10:21.840 Dolby on rock records. But there was a compression part 1:10:21.840 --> 1:10:23.840 of it that that I kind of liked. It made 1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:25.639 it kind of solid. It lost some of the top 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:27.519 and air and some of the openness of it, but 1:10:27.800 --> 1:10:29.800 it had another sound to it, and I kind of 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:34.360 like that. I thought Keith was was great and we 1:10:34.400 --> 1:10:37.680 got along really really well in the beginning, but then 1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:40.719 there is the temptation and then all of a sudden, 1:10:40.920 --> 1:10:43.479 the double creeps in, and you know, there was some 1:10:43.680 --> 1:10:47.800 issues with drugs and things like that, and I could 1:10:47.920 --> 1:10:50.599 I saw a decline during that record. I saw it 1:10:50.680 --> 1:10:54.880 sort of fade out. He was having trouble personally, and 1:10:54.880 --> 1:10:57.559 and then I just felt as I really needed to 1:10:57.600 --> 1:11:00.000 step in and kind of say what was going on 1:11:00.280 --> 1:11:03.519 because he wasn't himself. It's like I've known him in 1:11:03.520 --> 1:11:06.320 the beginning. Uh, you know, cutting the tracks that we 1:11:06.360 --> 1:11:08.760 did so. 1:11:07.920 --> 1:11:13.120 Okay on that album is really pats gigantic breakthrough hit 1:11:13.200 --> 1:11:15.840 Me with your Best Shot. How did that come into 1:11:15.880 --> 1:11:16.360 the mix? 1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:21.000 Uh? That song was also floating around when I was 1:11:21.040 --> 1:11:24.920 with Darrenger, and I kind of had it and and 1:11:24.960 --> 1:11:29.120 I I brought it in. Keith said he brought it in, 1:11:30.120 --> 1:11:33.160 and I did a demo of it in New York 1:11:33.240 --> 1:11:37.720 in a studio with Patricia before we before we went 1:11:37.760 --> 1:11:40.680 to LA to do the Crimes of Passion record, and 1:11:40.720 --> 1:11:43.800 I brought the demo with me and of us doing it, 1:11:43.920 --> 1:11:46.000 I says, this, this is probably a hit. You know, 1:11:46.080 --> 1:11:50.559 it's it's it has all those things, and a record 1:11:50.600 --> 1:11:53.800 company loved it. So that's that's how we did that. 1:11:54.000 --> 1:11:56.360 I mean, I brought it a demo of art, we 1:11:56.439 --> 1:11:57.120 did a version of it. 1:11:57.360 --> 1:12:01.760 Okay, when it was done, did you say, man, this 1:12:01.920 --> 1:12:03.479 is a hit, this is going to go all the way, 1:12:03.560 --> 1:12:05.800 or you just say, hey, this is another good track. 1:12:05.880 --> 1:12:07.120 It'll get some radioaction. 1:12:07.880 --> 1:12:08.800 No, I knew it was a hit. 1:12:09.280 --> 1:12:09.519 Yeah. 1:12:09.640 --> 1:12:14.000 It had all that stuff, you know. Yeah, it's you know, 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:17.840 it's it's a cliche line. It's easy for people to sing, 1:12:18.040 --> 1:12:22.840 it's a pop song. It had everything there, you know. 1:12:24.479 --> 1:12:26.479 I kind of like the guitar solo too. I don't 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:28.439 I'm not a I don't really pay attention to any 1:12:28.439 --> 1:12:32.400 of that stuff. But it did. It did fire through 1:12:32.439 --> 1:12:36.400 the like normally when a guitar solo solo would come in, 1:12:37.240 --> 1:12:39.840 if it's just wheedling and just a bunch of stuff 1:12:39.840 --> 1:12:41.800 that doesn't have any meaning to it. Not that there's 1:12:41.840 --> 1:12:44.720 anything wrong with that either, sometimes just the intensity of that. 1:12:45.000 --> 1:12:46.960 But I wanted it to be melodic. I wanted to 1:12:47.000 --> 1:12:51.000 fire it off and keep people's attention because nobody really 1:12:51.000 --> 1:12:53.000 wants to hear to me. I don't know, when they're 1:12:53.040 --> 1:12:55.200 listening to a song sing along, they don't really want 1:12:55.240 --> 1:12:58.880 to hear guitar solos, right unless unless there's something memorable 1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:01.240 about it, and what mel I some sort or whatever. 1:13:01.280 --> 1:13:04.040 And I thought as a record that completed everything at 1:13:04.040 --> 1:13:05.559 the very end of the song, what I used to 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:08.559 put on the end of all of them, every one 1:13:08.600 --> 1:13:13.200 on Crimes and Passion, it was called it E nine 1:13:13.240 --> 1:13:15.760 to eleven chord, And no matter what song it was, 1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:18.000 I'd always played a SA so all the outtakes, if 1:13:18.000 --> 1:13:20.000 you heard outtekes of the record, they'd have that little 1:13:20.240 --> 1:13:23.040 chord on the end of it and hit me add 1:13:23.080 --> 1:13:23.599 that to the sad. 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:26.679 So how did you end up recording You Better Run 1:13:26.720 --> 1:13:27.760 by the Rascals? 1:13:28.080 --> 1:13:32.760 Yeah, that was for the Roady Soundcheck soundtrack the film, 1:13:33.120 --> 1:13:35.640 and that's where we worked with Keith first. And that 1:13:35.720 --> 1:13:39.920 warned great. That was almost a test, a testing point. 1:13:39.960 --> 1:13:41.840 They said, well we'll do that first. That was the 1:13:41.840 --> 1:13:44.240 first song we recorded, and we were all in a 1:13:44.280 --> 1:13:46.000 studio for that, so I was in there. We did 1:13:46.000 --> 1:13:48.599 the vocal. Everything nobody ever left out of that and 1:13:48.600 --> 1:13:51.680 that was just done for the Roady soundtrack. 1:13:51.760 --> 1:13:53.120 I think who picked the track. 1:13:55.560 --> 1:13:57.559 Actually Patricia used to use it in some of those 1:13:57.600 --> 1:14:01.120 gigs that she was doing before, but more, you know, 1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:03.479 more like a tame version, like a little organ part 1:14:03.520 --> 1:14:06.639 had it and more it wasn't as like maybe guitar 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:07.840 driven that kind of thing. 1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:11.160 And what's the story on Treat Me Right? 1:14:13.520 --> 1:14:15.479 I think Treat Me Right just came in as a 1:14:15.479 --> 1:14:18.760 collection of songs that people thought the record company thought 1:14:18.800 --> 1:14:24.160 would be good. Normally, if if we didn't write the songs, 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:28.800 they would be given to me. And what I always 1:14:28.880 --> 1:14:32.439 did always is I would I would really rip them 1:14:32.479 --> 1:14:35.080 apart and it would never sound like any demo that 1:14:35.240 --> 1:14:37.840 was given I did. I did that all the time. 1:14:38.120 --> 1:14:41.800 I wanted to. I wanted to make it for Patricia 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:44.519 and make it different, and I just I just I 1:14:44.640 --> 1:14:48.320 just hear it different. That's another thing that which I 1:14:48.360 --> 1:14:51.600 do and I love. When I was learning guitar and 1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:55.400 keepers well guitar, especially from the pioneers, I would learn 1:14:55.439 --> 1:14:57.920 the parts, but I wouldn't concentrate on the parts. I 1:14:57.960 --> 1:15:00.800 would try to find parts that I would play and 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:04.439 embellish the parts. So I was always looking as a 1:15:05.960 --> 1:15:09.439 sidebar to kind of change the arrangement or parts in 1:15:09.560 --> 1:15:13.240 all those songs. So by taking a song if we 1:15:13.280 --> 1:15:15.040 didn't write it, I would try to really mess it 1:15:15.120 --> 1:15:17.080 up and try a lot of different ways to do 1:15:17.120 --> 1:15:19.240 it and come up with something different, interesting, you know. 1:15:19.479 --> 1:15:23.639 Okay, on the second album there's a cover of Wuthering Heights. 1:15:23.720 --> 1:15:26.800 Kate Bush is an icon. Now that was on our 1:15:26.840 --> 1:15:30.439 first album, had like no traction in America. How'd you 1:15:30.520 --> 1:15:31.840 end up recording that song? 1:15:32.479 --> 1:15:35.000 We were on tour in the beginning of nineteen eighty. 1:15:35.040 --> 1:15:37.519 We were in this little petit cap what is it 1:15:37.560 --> 1:15:40.439 called the Petite I can't remember the name. It was 1:15:40.479 --> 1:15:43.639 this little cafe in France, in Paris, and we were 1:15:43.640 --> 1:15:47.439 having lunch and I love Kate Bush. I was aware 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:51.880 of that, and I heard out in the landing. I'm thinking, ooh, 1:15:52.320 --> 1:15:54.679 we should do that. I love Kate Bush. We should 1:15:54.680 --> 1:15:56.960 do that song. So at that point that's when we 1:15:57.000 --> 1:15:59.799 did it. After hearing it in the cafe, I said, Patricia, 1:16:00.080 --> 1:16:02.040 than it is, this could be a really good song 1:16:02.080 --> 1:16:02.559 for us. 1:16:02.880 --> 1:16:06.519 Okay from the outside, I mean I had the first 1:16:06.560 --> 1:16:09.519 album and was certainly aware, but hit me with your 1:16:09.560 --> 1:16:14.320 best shot, blows pat bennettar into the upper leagues as 1:16:14.320 --> 1:16:17.400 big as anybody else. What does it look like from 1:16:17.439 --> 1:16:19.439 your perspective, Yeah. 1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:23.360 It was the same thing. It was right around the time, 1:16:23.840 --> 1:16:26.360 and it would be after MTV, I mean after the 1:16:26.360 --> 1:16:29.519 beginning of MTV, which would be You Better Run, So 1:16:29.640 --> 1:16:32.120 you Better Run was out there before hit me was 1:16:32.280 --> 1:16:36.479 I'm pretty sure. So yeah, that blew up. That blew up, 1:16:37.760 --> 1:16:41.559 it did. It blew up big. The part I liked 1:16:41.640 --> 1:16:45.840 is it pulled attention to some of the other hells 1:16:45.840 --> 1:16:48.639 for children's songs like that. Those are my favorite because 1:16:48.680 --> 1:16:54.040 they're I don't know, I just I just like them. 1:16:53.840 --> 1:16:58.880 And you wrote them. Okay. Meanwhile, as you referenced earlier, 1:17:00.080 --> 1:17:04.200 Pat is married. Her married name is Bennett tar where's 1:17:04.240 --> 1:17:05.800 her husband doing all this? 1:17:06.479 --> 1:17:08.799 Well, he was there. He was there in the beginning 1:17:08.880 --> 1:17:12.639 of I remember. I remember when I went to meet her. 1:17:14.160 --> 1:17:18.960 She was like, it was like insane, because this is 1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:22.679 part of the metaphysical stuff, the universe, which never seems 1:17:22.680 --> 1:17:26.519 to get it wrong. As I'm walking through the door, 1:17:26.800 --> 1:17:30.439 I see her and I'm walking towards her, and the 1:17:30.479 --> 1:17:34.439 whole room disappeared. There was like for her too. There's 1:17:34.640 --> 1:17:36.840 no one else made any difference in the room, just 1:17:36.920 --> 1:17:39.120 her and I'm just walking up and I remember just 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:40.720 talking to her and all of a sudden she turns around. 1:17:40.760 --> 1:17:44.400 She goes, well, this is my home husband. And I said, oh, well, 1:17:44.520 --> 1:17:48.000 nice to meet you. I mean, sure, nice. 1:17:48.160 --> 1:17:48.639 And he was. 1:17:48.600 --> 1:17:53.080 Around and I didn't know any I didn't know anything. 1:17:53.160 --> 1:17:56.360 I didn't know their relationship. But it wasn't like that 1:17:56.479 --> 1:17:58.600 wasn't what I was there for. I'm professional, I'm not 1:17:58.640 --> 1:18:01.360 going to do that there. Whatever the relationship is, Yeah, 1:18:01.360 --> 1:18:05.599 that's sure. I'm there to be a partner, work together 1:18:05.920 --> 1:18:08.559 and make great records and have a great career. That 1:18:08.680 --> 1:18:09.000 was it. 1:18:10.040 --> 1:18:13.840 So how did it end with him and begin with 1:18:13.920 --> 1:18:15.679 you or vice versa. 1:18:16.200 --> 1:18:19.759 Yeah, well, I didn't realize that there was a friction 1:18:19.880 --> 1:18:24.760 in the relationship relationship, but I remember, uh, there was 1:18:24.840 --> 1:18:26.080 friction in my relationship. 1:18:26.840 --> 1:18:29.080 And this was the same woman from Connecticut. 1:18:29.640 --> 1:18:35.439 Yes, yes, yes, And it was just the timing it was. 1:18:35.640 --> 1:18:39.280 It wasn't right for it wasn't right for her and I. 1:18:39.520 --> 1:18:44.200 You know, but I remember, I mean, here, you it's 1:18:44.240 --> 1:18:47.000 like the water cooler syndrome. You know, you're you're you're 1:18:47.040 --> 1:18:50.680 in the band together. Here and I are partners. The 1:18:50.720 --> 1:18:52.360 rest of the guys were going to tell them what 1:18:52.400 --> 1:18:54.200 we want to do. But we are the partners, so 1:18:54.240 --> 1:18:57.200 here we go. You know what what she wanted? What 1:18:57.640 --> 1:18:59.760 you know what the plan was is, you know, you 1:18:59.760 --> 1:19:04.479 know Keith and what do you call it? Sorry, Jimmy, 1:19:04.600 --> 1:19:07.160 Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, you know, and Keith and 1:19:07.200 --> 1:19:10.920 Mick and you know that whole sender, guitar singer, right, 1:19:11.000 --> 1:19:17.280 this is the whole pattern. Right. So we're getting We're 1:19:17.280 --> 1:19:21.360 getting closer and closer. We're together all the time, so 1:19:22.439 --> 1:19:25.400 things are starting to have a little bit. So I says, 1:19:25.640 --> 1:19:27.479 I think we need to have a meeting. I need 1:19:27.479 --> 1:19:30.000 to tell you something important. So she thought I was 1:19:30.080 --> 1:19:33.240 going to tell her that I was leaving the band. 1:19:33.520 --> 1:19:35.280 That was just going to be gone. This was after 1:19:35.320 --> 1:19:37.040 the record was done. By the way, we weren't we 1:19:37.040 --> 1:19:41.840 weren't together. This was we just musicians out a relationship. 1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:44.559 So I had this conversation. She thought I was leaving 1:19:44.560 --> 1:19:49.679 the band, and I remember I was doing these little 1:19:49.680 --> 1:19:52.360 figures that I were sitting there and I'm having a 1:19:52.360 --> 1:19:56.679 cup of tea or something, and I tell her, my girlfriend, 1:19:56.840 --> 1:19:59.960 it's not working out. She did something that wasn't appropriate, 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:06.040 and I'm leaving her you know. And then she subsequently 1:20:06.160 --> 1:20:11.439 said things aren't working out with me either, and I said, well, 1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:15.400 you want to go out or something and nuts, and 1:20:15.760 --> 1:20:18.559 that's that's what happened. That's how it happened. 1:20:18.760 --> 1:20:21.040 And I think his name was Dennis. How did he 1:20:21.160 --> 1:20:21.439 take it? 1:20:21.640 --> 1:20:29.879 Yeah, I don't think he took it well. My girlfriend 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:32.720 at the time didn't take it well. But we had 1:20:32.720 --> 1:20:40.400 a record. We had an after record party in Los Angeles. 1:20:40.400 --> 1:20:44.080 Were heated in that record and my girlfriend was there 1:20:45.640 --> 1:20:48.840 and her husband, Dennis was there, but they were sitting 1:20:48.840 --> 1:20:52.840 next to each other, so it was well, and the 1:20:52.920 --> 1:20:56.439 Patricia was more towards me and we both kind of 1:20:56.520 --> 1:20:59.719 just looked at her for a second and went, maybe 1:20:59.760 --> 1:21:02.760 that's an omen you know. And that never happened. They 1:21:02.800 --> 1:21:05.080 they never got together, but they were having so much 1:21:05.080 --> 1:21:09.360 fun talking. I'm thinking, well, I guess I think something 1:21:09.400 --> 1:21:11.760 else is gonna happen. But this this was before any 1:21:11.800 --> 1:21:13.760 ideas were going on. This is when we're still in 1:21:13.840 --> 1:21:17.479 La So and from the very first show we did 1:21:17.560 --> 1:21:20.120 live we were a couple. That was it. 1:21:21.080 --> 1:21:29.320 Okay, how does MTV change the UH Act from being 1:21:29.400 --> 1:21:31.799 inside the act? Yeah? 1:21:31.840 --> 1:21:35.080 Well, that thing it blew up everything. I mean, it was. 1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:39.160 It was. It was from walking out your front door 1:21:39.240 --> 1:21:42.240 and getting in the car and going to CVS or 1:21:42.240 --> 1:21:44.800 something to go buy some toothpaste. So you can't get 1:21:44.840 --> 1:21:46.360 out your front door because a bunch of people there. 1:21:46.400 --> 1:21:49.240 Oh my god. Right. I was like, oh shit, this 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:53.720 what just happened? And then it never stopped. So it 1:21:53.800 --> 1:21:56.040 got it. We just got out of control. 1:21:56.400 --> 1:22:01.040 Yeah, so the next album you also work with Keith O. 1:22:01.200 --> 1:22:04.479 You get a co producer credit. If there were issues 1:22:04.520 --> 1:22:06.439 on the previous album, why'd you work with them on 1:22:06.479 --> 1:22:07.200 that album? 1:22:07.360 --> 1:22:09.880 Because of the success of it. You know, the record companies, 1:22:09.960 --> 1:22:11.360 you know, they're not going to make a move and 1:22:11.680 --> 1:22:13.479 I fight it. I wanted Pete to come back, him 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:16.479 and I, but I wasn't gonna fight a battle with that. 1:22:16.720 --> 1:22:18.479 I just said, okay, we'll do it. And that was 1:22:18.640 --> 1:22:22.000 that was. That was a disaster. So that was that 1:22:22.120 --> 1:22:24.320 was lining up to be the end with with working 1:22:24.360 --> 1:22:27.120 with Keith for sure. Yeah, that was. Yeah. It really 1:22:27.160 --> 1:22:30.000 had some trouble times and I feel bad for him. 1:22:30.160 --> 1:22:33.840 You know, you know, his his his wife's sister lived 1:22:33.840 --> 1:22:36.200 across from where we lived, and you know, he'd call 1:22:36.280 --> 1:22:37.400 me in the middle and I could you do me 1:22:37.400 --> 1:22:38.880 a favorite. Could you just walk over there? I can't 1:22:38.880 --> 1:22:41.160 find my wife, and I mean it really personal issues. 1:22:41.200 --> 1:22:43.599 It was awful. I hated to see that happen to him. 1:22:44.439 --> 1:22:47.280 But but I was growing too, We were all growing. 1:22:47.479 --> 1:22:49.760 I didn't want I didn't want to make the same 1:22:49.800 --> 1:22:53.719 record again. I I needed to make different I wanted 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:57.720 something different to happen, more genres of different space, different things. 1:22:58.560 --> 1:23:05.920 Okay, you're not front person. However, there's gigantic success. To 1:23:06.040 --> 1:23:08.599 what degree do you feel pressure to equal it? 1:23:09.400 --> 1:23:13.320 Oh? Yeah, there was always pressure, but it didn't It 1:23:13.320 --> 1:23:16.360 didn't affect me at all. Pressure pressure is living in 1:23:16.360 --> 1:23:20.760 Cleveland and not knowing what your future holds and how 1:23:20.840 --> 1:23:25.080 how you have to live through neurosis and sickness and 1:23:25.160 --> 1:23:28.360 all the other things. None of that stuff. I wasn't 1:23:28.360 --> 1:23:31.920 afraid of any of that. Part of the thing, Bob, 1:23:32.000 --> 1:23:35.040 is that with everything I did, I want to challenge 1:23:35.080 --> 1:23:38.600 myself because I got over some really nasty sickness and 1:23:38.880 --> 1:23:45.120 emotional chaos that I was going to challenge everything myself. 1:23:45.400 --> 1:23:49.439 The audience didn't matter what. I wasn't afraid for one second. 1:23:50.120 --> 1:23:53.640 So you had complete confidence. You never second guess yourself, 1:23:53.680 --> 1:23:56.360 You were never up the middle of the night, saying, shit, 1:23:56.479 --> 1:23:57.960 maybe we're going in the wrong direction. 1:23:58.720 --> 1:24:01.800 Nope, not once did. I did later on. I think 1:24:01.800 --> 1:24:04.519 it was around this seventh record or something. Yeah, I did. 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:06.720 I did later, but not in the beginning. Not then. No, 1:24:07.120 --> 1:24:08.760 I was coming in and I would say, this is 1:24:09.160 --> 1:24:11.760 I want to try this. Everybody on board, We're going 1:24:11.840 --> 1:24:12.920 to do this. Let's do this. 1:24:13.200 --> 1:24:15.719 Okay, how did you end up recording Fire and Ice? 1:24:17.160 --> 1:24:20.799 Fire and Ice was a song that Tom Kelly was writing, 1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:24.800 and uh, and uh, he just had it, he just 1:24:24.840 --> 1:24:27.599 had it. We brought it in when wow, this this 1:24:27.840 --> 1:24:29.920 course explodes here, this is this will be really good 1:24:29.960 --> 1:24:32.600 for Patricia and and we just went in and did it. 1:24:32.640 --> 1:24:35.240 I think I was on precious time. Uh yeah, that 1:24:35.280 --> 1:24:36.880 record right, the second third one? 1:24:36.960 --> 1:24:39.920 And then how about the Raiders cover? 1:24:40.600 --> 1:24:43.680 Uh that was just Look. Here's the thing too, this 1:24:43.840 --> 1:24:47.320 was we we really didn't have enough time between records, 1:24:47.600 --> 1:24:51.919 you know, the the management this was a poor decision 1:24:51.960 --> 1:24:54.800 on their part. Our legal team too, was it was 1:24:54.800 --> 1:24:57.880 wasn't a good thing. When we had the huge success 1:24:57.920 --> 1:25:00.760 with Crimes of Passion, we had a if we didn't 1:25:00.800 --> 1:25:03.760 make a record every nine months, we'd go into suspension. Now, 1:25:04.040 --> 1:25:05.640 if you make to have that kind of success the 1:25:05.720 --> 1:25:08.679 Crimes of Passion had, you can waive all that stuff. 1:25:08.840 --> 1:25:11.240 You can make a difference, you can change all kinds 1:25:11.280 --> 1:25:14.639 of things. Well, they never changed that. They get more money, 1:25:14.680 --> 1:25:17.120 He got more money, but that was just an advance. 1:25:17.360 --> 1:25:23.799 So it was a really bad, bad business management decision. 1:25:23.880 --> 1:25:25.920 So we'd get done with the road and they say, well, 1:25:25.920 --> 1:25:27.280 guess what. You got to go back in the studio 1:25:27.320 --> 1:25:29.640 in about two weeks. So we didn't have time to 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:34.040 sit there and write songs. We were writing songs on 1:25:34.120 --> 1:25:36.120 the road. There was too much chaos, right, so we 1:25:36.160 --> 1:25:38.800 didn't have the time to do it, you know. And 1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:41.400 they were just looking for covers, you know. And Patricia 1:25:41.439 --> 1:25:43.240 found it and said let's do that. I said, okay, 1:25:43.360 --> 1:25:45.320 sure you want to do it, we'll do it. 1:25:45.320 --> 1:25:57.439 It was, you know whatever, Okay, who's the manager? 1:25:58.280 --> 1:26:01.799 Rick Newman, right, so he was still the manager. Now 1:26:03.439 --> 1:26:06.880 somewhere along this line you get involved with Rick Springfield 1:26:06.920 --> 1:26:09.200 and Jesse's girl. How the hell does that happen? 1:26:09.640 --> 1:26:16.280 Yeah, well, that happens because I let's see, it was 1:26:16.320 --> 1:26:19.400 I think it was after Crimes of Passion. Crimes of 1:26:19.439 --> 1:26:24.320 Passion was done, and then I was offered a job 1:26:24.360 --> 1:26:28.080 to produce John Waite's for a solo record, So I 1:26:28.120 --> 1:26:32.439 produced Ignition for John Waite and and then that was 1:26:32.479 --> 1:26:35.240 starting to do really well. And then Keith and I 1:26:35.240 --> 1:26:38.040 were getting along at that time, and he says, you know, 1:26:38.080 --> 1:26:39.880 I really want you to do let's do this together. 1:26:40.120 --> 1:26:41.840 That was the idea. We're going to produce it together. 1:26:41.920 --> 1:26:43.320 You and I were going to do this thing. And 1:26:44.000 --> 1:26:47.120 and then I heard the song from Rick and I'm thinking, wow, Rick, 1:26:47.479 --> 1:26:49.519 he wrote it, this is a great song. This is 1:26:49.560 --> 1:26:51.599 going to be a great pop song, going to be great. 1:26:52.160 --> 1:26:54.479 And it was very stiff, and it didn't have the 1:26:54.479 --> 1:26:58.080 middle eight section and it needed help. But the song 1:26:58.120 --> 1:27:01.400 itself was very, very strong, and like Rick likes to 1:27:01.400 --> 1:27:03.800 explain it, when he was doing ad Do Do Do 1:27:04.280 --> 1:27:07.080 is very stiff, right, It was more like a like 1:27:09.880 --> 1:27:12.760 you know, and then my natural thing is to swing 1:27:12.800 --> 1:27:15.439 it more dumb bob boom boom boom, just kind of 1:27:15.479 --> 1:27:18.960 grab that kind of feel and beat. So then we 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:22.040 went in the studio and I do what I would 1:27:22.040 --> 1:27:23.639 do most of the time if it's a live track 1:27:23.720 --> 1:27:25.920 we're cutting it on, you do guitar and drums and vocals, 1:27:26.120 --> 1:27:28.639 and then you do overdubbed the bass. I don't want 1:27:28.640 --> 1:27:30.240 the bass in there because I really want to work 1:27:30.280 --> 1:27:32.240 inside the drummer because I played drums and I like 1:27:32.320 --> 1:27:34.880 the rhythm to really kind of link together so I 1:27:34.880 --> 1:27:37.600 can hear that really defined in the vocal. And so 1:27:37.680 --> 1:27:39.360 we just went in and did that. We did I've 1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:42.680 done everything for you. That was another song that was 1:27:42.800 --> 1:27:46.599 I think floating around that Sammy Hagar did and kind 1:27:46.600 --> 1:27:47.960 of introduced that to Rick too. 1:27:48.080 --> 1:27:53.439 So did you know because Rick Springfield was at the 1:27:53.640 --> 1:27:57.240 nader of his career, no one cared about Rick Springfield. 1:27:57.840 --> 1:28:00.400 Did you have any idea that was going to be 1:28:00.439 --> 1:28:02.000 the gigantic track it was? 1:28:03.840 --> 1:28:06.800 Truthfully, yeah, I thought it was a smash. When we 1:28:06.840 --> 1:28:08.640 had it done, I went, this is this is a 1:28:09.160 --> 1:28:12.240 number one song, and then it became number one. So so, Bob, 1:28:12.240 --> 1:28:14.280 here's the deal. I have a number one song. I 1:28:14.439 --> 1:28:18.000 just got done producer John Waite's record. Ozzie's asking me 1:28:18.040 --> 1:28:20.519 to produce his record. I'm getting all these other offers. 1:28:21.400 --> 1:28:26.360 Crimes of Passion is exploding. I feel like, Oh, I 1:28:26.400 --> 1:28:30.320 can do anything, do anything. Now, look out, I'm coming 1:28:30.360 --> 1:28:30.640 at you. 1:28:31.680 --> 1:28:36.120 Okay. This is the music business and a lot of 1:28:36.120 --> 1:28:38.799 the songs were not written by either you or Pat 1:28:39.160 --> 1:28:43.519 correct Were you seeing the money and were you seeing 1:28:43.560 --> 1:28:45.000 the amount of money you should have seen? 1:28:47.400 --> 1:28:53.200 No, no, but but it certainly was enough that it 1:28:53.320 --> 1:28:58.280 was okay. So it really wasn't about that part, you know. 1:28:58.479 --> 1:29:00.600 I always felt, like I said in earlier in our 1:29:00.680 --> 1:29:03.240 conversation today, is that if you do a great song, 1:29:03.280 --> 1:29:06.200 it's going to be heard. If if I take somebody 1:29:06.200 --> 1:29:09.120 else's song that they wrote and I completely dismantled the 1:29:09.120 --> 1:29:12.960 hell out of it and make it into something that's great, 1:29:13.880 --> 1:29:15.680 it's gonna make but it's gonna do what it has 1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:17.240 to do. And I'm not worried about the money. I 1:29:17.240 --> 1:29:19.040 don't care about it. I want it to be a hit. 1:29:19.200 --> 1:29:23.120 Listen loves a Battlefee was turned down by the record company. 1:29:23.160 --> 1:29:25.240 They hate it and said, what's it? What's your problem? 1:29:25.320 --> 1:29:27.280 Mike Chapman, who wrote it, said in Holly and I said, 1:29:28.120 --> 1:29:31.599 what the hell you do it? We hate it. Peter Coleman, 1:29:31.760 --> 1:29:34.559 who I did it with Pete and he says, I 1:29:34.560 --> 1:29:37.280 don't think. I don't get that. What were you thinking about? 1:29:37.320 --> 1:29:40.360 I go, Pete, I know this is a hit like this, 1:29:40.640 --> 1:29:43.680 I know it's a hit. I guarantee this song's a hit. 1:29:44.120 --> 1:29:46.360 And then Pete. The great story is Pete goes home. 1:29:46.720 --> 1:29:49.360 He's not a drinker. He goes home and he drinks 1:29:50.080 --> 1:29:53.120 half a bottle of Kognak. He puts it on and 1:29:53.160 --> 1:29:56.680 he listens to it. He goes son of a Bitchniel's 1:29:56.760 --> 1:29:58.960 right came in the next day. He says, I'm behind 1:29:59.000 --> 1:30:00.639 you one hundred percent. Get it now. 1:30:01.840 --> 1:30:07.479 Okay. They didn't like it because radically different from the demo, 1:30:07.600 --> 1:30:08.720 or they just didn't like it. 1:30:08.760 --> 1:30:13.519 Oh, radically different, a different, completely different song. You know, 1:30:13.680 --> 1:30:19.040 the demo was very melancholy, and you know, didn't have 1:30:19.520 --> 1:30:22.040 the didn't have any of those things that were going 1:30:22.080 --> 1:30:24.679 on that would give it the kick the charge, right, 1:30:24.800 --> 1:30:28.120 you know, it's not starting up, you know, you know. 1:30:28.160 --> 1:30:30.280 And I put the talking on because I thought it'd 1:30:30.280 --> 1:30:32.519 be funny, like the Supremes put whistling on. I thought 1:30:32.560 --> 1:30:35.720 that was kind of fun. Took a little light hearted thing, 1:30:35.760 --> 1:30:38.479 made it more like a Bo Diddley beat, got a 1:30:38.479 --> 1:30:42.120 different groove, sped it up considerably, changed the whole dynamic 1:30:42.120 --> 1:30:43.880 of the song. But I felt that was the right 1:30:43.920 --> 1:30:47.200 thing to do. And the real funny part is that 1:30:47.520 --> 1:30:49.439 when it be and Mike hated it, so when it 1:30:49.439 --> 1:30:52.200 became a hit, people were calling him and saying, could 1:30:52.200 --> 1:30:56.360 you write another one like Battlefield? I know somebody that did, 1:30:56.840 --> 1:30:59.080 and I'll tell you who that was. You know, the 1:30:59.120 --> 1:31:03.120 saw Boys of some of course. Okay, how similar is that? 1:31:03.120 --> 1:31:04.120 The Love is a Battlefield? 1:31:05.360 --> 1:31:06.120 Pretty similar? 1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:10.320 Oh? Interesting? Interesting? Well, listen, you could say what you 1:31:10.320 --> 1:31:14.200 want about Don Haley. He's a very talented guy. He's 1:31:14.200 --> 1:31:17.360 got a little reputation sometimes not being a nice guy whatever, 1:31:17.400 --> 1:31:19.479 But I'll tell you what that guy is an honest guy. 1:31:20.120 --> 1:31:23.479 He's honest and he's a great talent. Right. He ran 1:31:23.520 --> 1:31:26.040 into me at MCA Whitney Studios. He said, how did 1:31:26.080 --> 1:31:28.840 you do Battlefield? I said, you want to know? He goes, yeah, 1:31:28.840 --> 1:31:30.920 I want to steal it. I said, you do. I 1:31:30.960 --> 1:31:32.360 go Here's how I did it. I did it on 1:31:32.400 --> 1:31:35.240 a LYNDR. I did this. I did it on this beat. 1:31:35.320 --> 1:31:37.400 I wanted a bowdilly beat. I wanted to have this. 1:31:37.400 --> 1:31:39.000 This is what I did. So I explained it to 1:31:39.080 --> 1:31:41.120 him and he went out and he did it. 1:31:41.280 --> 1:31:41.599 Cool. 1:31:42.600 --> 1:31:45.400 But somebody else that was part of it doesn't say 1:31:45.439 --> 1:31:46.200 the same story. 1:31:47.000 --> 1:31:51.759 So okay, well, you know, I both know personally and 1:31:52.080 --> 1:31:56.679 you know it's pretty out there who's involved. But when 1:31:56.720 --> 1:32:00.320 it is a hit, do you feel proud or rip doll? 1:32:01.080 --> 1:32:04.439 I proud? From from from Don Henley's point of view, 1:32:04.479 --> 1:32:08.120 I feel proud. Yeah, I don't. I don't feel ripped. 1:32:08.200 --> 1:32:13.840 I just you know, in music, you you you know, 1:32:14.160 --> 1:32:16.760 it's it's important to be truth people. People can smell 1:32:16.800 --> 1:32:19.519 when it's not the truth, right, it's important. And and 1:32:20.760 --> 1:32:22.760 I just think if you if you're gonna, if you're 1:32:22.760 --> 1:32:26.280 gonna go on social media or something like that, just 1:32:26.439 --> 1:32:28.400 tell the truth, you know, find you know, you don't 1:32:28.439 --> 1:32:31.040 have to, you don't have to make up something. You know, 1:32:31.120 --> 1:32:34.960 it's it's just it's just odd to me. You think 1:32:35.040 --> 1:32:37.439 somebody would kind of make sense. You know. I heard 1:32:37.479 --> 1:32:40.639 this record, you know, I really liked it. Doesn't buy 1:32:40.680 --> 1:32:43.639 you bother anybody. Just tell the truth on it, right. 1:32:44.040 --> 1:32:46.120 But I did see a little I have to say 1:32:46.200 --> 1:32:49.120 that because I saw a little YouTube thing I'm talking with, like, 1:32:50.120 --> 1:32:51.400 I wonder how you got that idea? 1:32:51.760 --> 1:32:58.760 So okay, moving on Shadows of the Night, Yeah, m hmm, 1:32:59.160 --> 1:32:59.880 Shadows of the Night. 1:33:00.040 --> 1:33:06.759 It's a story there, great chorus, had a great chorus, 1:33:06.760 --> 1:33:07.559 and knew that was right. 1:33:08.240 --> 1:33:09.040 The verse. 1:33:10.760 --> 1:33:14.960 The verse lyrics were not good, so we rewrote those. 1:33:16.320 --> 1:33:20.280 That's the one where there should be credit established for that, 1:33:20.360 --> 1:33:25.000 but there wasn't. Didn't have an intro was killing me 1:33:25.000 --> 1:33:26.920 because I the intro I had was horrible. It's like 1:33:26.960 --> 1:33:29.360 d D D D D D D D ball boom. 1:33:29.360 --> 1:33:33.280 It's horrible. It was bothering me. I knew I had 1:33:33.280 --> 1:33:34.720 a hit, but I didn't know how to start it. 1:33:34.760 --> 1:33:36.920 And you know that if you if you're gonna have 1:33:36.920 --> 1:33:40.600 a hit record, that intro better defined. You better know 1:33:40.680 --> 1:33:43.080 what that is within the first eight bars. So I 1:33:43.120 --> 1:33:47.639 battlefield boomed bah bah boom, bah bah bah boom, ba boom. 1:33:47.680 --> 1:33:50.439 You know the song we belong baa b b b 1:33:50.560 --> 1:33:53.479 b buh. You know the song right shuttles at the night. 1:33:53.800 --> 1:33:56.000 So Pete's in the other room. I'm getting a cup 1:33:56.040 --> 1:33:59.120 of tea. I hear through the hall of him balancing 1:33:59.160 --> 1:34:02.720 the vocals of the horus. As I hear that, I go, 1:34:04.040 --> 1:34:07.080 that's it. So I go running from the kitchen and 1:34:07.240 --> 1:34:10.400 I go, Pete, stop, stop that right there. That's our intro. 1:34:10.560 --> 1:34:12.479 He said, what are you talking about? He says, Let's 1:34:12.560 --> 1:34:14.479 take that. Let's put it on a quarter inch machine. 1:34:14.560 --> 1:34:17.120 Let's fly it in the beginning that is our intro, 1:34:17.160 --> 1:34:19.200 and that's how we got the intro, the a cappella part. 1:34:20.080 --> 1:34:22.040 He was balancing the vocals there and I wanted to 1:34:22.040 --> 1:34:23.960 put that on the front of front of the record, 1:34:24.200 --> 1:34:27.360 and that's, to me, was a part that really made 1:34:27.360 --> 1:34:31.799 that song hit because you want to have a great beginning, 1:34:31.800 --> 1:34:34.080 and that's starting. What all those vocals was. It just 1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:36.519 sounds so beautiful. Her voice sounds tremendous on it. 1:34:37.400 --> 1:34:41.920 So you're working with Peter Coleman again. Is the magic 1:34:42.000 --> 1:34:43.360 still there? Yes? 1:34:44.200 --> 1:34:46.680 Absolutely, we could have went him and I could have 1:34:46.720 --> 1:34:51.479 went on to be a producer of partnership with so 1:34:51.640 --> 1:34:55.040 many people. We would have had such a great career 1:34:55.080 --> 1:34:58.160 together like that. But Pete's is such a great guy, 1:34:58.320 --> 1:35:03.240 such a great great and he's you know, he he's 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:05.920 happy to just go to the studio, same studio every day. 1:35:06.080 --> 1:35:08.600 An engineer, he's a brilliant engineer. He doesn't have the 1:35:08.640 --> 1:35:10.640 pressure of anything. He could just go in into it 1:35:10.640 --> 1:35:13.519 and that was what he loved the most. So then 1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:17.960 he moved to Nashville and he's a great engineer. Jason Aldine, 1:35:17.960 --> 1:35:19.960 I think he does his records and it just goes 1:35:20.000 --> 1:35:22.479 the same studio, comes in at ten o'clock in the morning, 1:35:22.560 --> 1:35:26.440 leaves it six or whenever he does it, and yeah, 1:35:26.520 --> 1:35:27.200 it was still there. 1:35:28.320 --> 1:35:30.280 And what about we Belong? How do you end up 1:35:30.280 --> 1:35:32.360 recording that we belong? 1:35:32.560 --> 1:35:36.719 It came as an acoustic demo with just acoustic guitar 1:35:36.760 --> 1:35:40.240 and vocal, and Patricia heard it and she goes, I 1:35:40.280 --> 1:35:42.400 think I think this could be a hit. We can 1:35:42.479 --> 1:35:45.000 make a hit with this. I go, I don't know. 1:35:44.880 --> 1:35:46.920 I know, I'm not getting it. I'm not hearing it yet. 1:35:46.960 --> 1:35:49.479 I got I got the I get it, I get 1:35:49.479 --> 1:35:51.240 the course, I get it, but I'm not I don't 1:35:51.280 --> 1:35:54.559 know yet. I don't know yet. And then and she said, 1:35:54.680 --> 1:35:56.120 I know you could do it. You could come up. 1:35:56.160 --> 1:36:01.880 And then, you know, thanks to Pete in my love 1:36:01.920 --> 1:36:11.519 of everything he does and his use of of rhythm, sequence, rhythm, 1:36:11.560 --> 1:36:14.920 whether it's Bob O'Reilly or you know, any of that stuff, 1:36:14.960 --> 1:36:18.599 I'm thinking maybe I should have like a fast repeating thing, 1:36:18.680 --> 1:36:21.640 you know, that up something that would change. So I 1:36:21.640 --> 1:36:23.960 had this super prime time unit was a delay unit, 1:36:24.000 --> 1:36:27.600 and I played one chord on it. Oh, Charlie, I 1:36:27.600 --> 1:36:29.320 think he was a keyboard player. I played this one 1:36:29.400 --> 1:36:31.400 chord and I took these knobs and I start switching 1:36:31.400 --> 1:36:35.519 the delays up to create this kind of hypnotic delay part. 1:36:36.000 --> 1:36:39.760 And that gave me the idea of Okay, now I 1:36:39.760 --> 1:36:44.000 can develop this into something different and and that's and 1:36:44.040 --> 1:36:46.639 that's how that's from that point I went, okay, now 1:36:46.680 --> 1:36:48.240 I can develop this song properly. 1:36:48.400 --> 1:36:53.320 So okay. Ultimately, Pat's hits dry up, as they do 1:36:53.439 --> 1:36:57.400 for everybody. But what was the experience for you and Pat? 1:36:59.080 --> 1:37:00.160 In what regard. 1:37:00.720 --> 1:37:05.400 Did you feel that the record company let you down? 1:37:05.880 --> 1:37:08.400 Do you feel that the records were good enough and 1:37:08.520 --> 1:37:11.679 not promoted? Do you feel that somehow you weren't nailing 1:37:11.720 --> 1:37:16.200 it anymore? Did an executive leave? You know, people usually 1:37:16.200 --> 1:37:16.879 have a story. 1:37:17.479 --> 1:37:20.960 Yeah, we kind of got We kind of got over it. 1:37:21.160 --> 1:37:24.719 You know. It wasn't the record company's fault, nobody's fault. 1:37:24.720 --> 1:37:27.760 All it was us that we got it was too 1:37:27.800 --> 1:37:30.400 long doing the same thing, and I, you know, really 1:37:30.479 --> 1:37:32.360 I tried to mix it up as best I could, 1:37:32.479 --> 1:37:34.559 different genres and everything else. And it wasn't until the 1:37:34.560 --> 1:37:37.799 True Love record. I've been trying to do a swing blues, 1:37:37.960 --> 1:37:41.360 jump blues record for years. So we were in a 1:37:41.400 --> 1:37:44.400 port of renegotiating the record deal, and I says, why 1:37:44.400 --> 1:37:47.920 do we do it like a jump blues record. I 1:37:47.960 --> 1:37:49.840 heard this great record by the Room full of Blues 1:37:49.840 --> 1:37:52.240 with Big Joe TURNERU, I said me, if we can 1:37:52.600 --> 1:37:55.320 capture that kind of sound and the roof flow are 1:37:55.360 --> 1:37:58.080 great because they played the horse way behind the beat 1:37:58.120 --> 1:38:01.519 and John Rossy phenomenal drummer, really fattens that thing up. 1:38:01.560 --> 1:38:05.880 It's a great feel, and that's what we wanted to 1:38:05.960 --> 1:38:08.800 change it. We weren't interested in just keep doing pop 1:38:08.880 --> 1:38:11.080 songs as hits, and we wanted to do others, something, 1:38:11.160 --> 1:38:13.719 something different. And I was producing so many other people 1:38:13.760 --> 1:38:17.679 at the time. I was all over the place, Steve Forbert, jeez, 1:38:17.680 --> 1:38:20.439 I can't even think of you know, the del Lords, 1:38:20.880 --> 1:38:23.760 two albums for the Delords, Beth Hart. I mean, I 1:38:23.800 --> 1:38:27.280 was all over the place, and that was at least 1:38:27.560 --> 1:38:31.800 feeding me and Patrician didn't Carris and she wasn't sure 1:38:31.800 --> 1:38:34.320 she could be able to do a swing. Recognizays, yeah, 1:38:34.439 --> 1:38:37.040 you can listen to Big may Bell. You can be 1:38:37.160 --> 1:38:40.800 Big may Bell on this. You got it right. So 1:38:40.840 --> 1:38:45.360 that changed it. So from that point moving forward, we 1:38:45.360 --> 1:38:49.879 were okay. 1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:53.759 So you're producing records, jamaking records with Pat pat stops 1:38:53.800 --> 1:38:57.280 having hits. What happens with your production career. 1:38:58.640 --> 1:39:00.120 I'm trying to think of what was going on at 1:39:00.120 --> 1:39:02.760 that time. I think I was still producing people. I 1:39:02.800 --> 1:39:08.439 was writing, writing a lot. And the thing about writing 1:39:08.520 --> 1:39:10.720 is you write and if you collect it, which I 1:39:10.720 --> 1:39:12.840 always did, whether it was at that machine, it has said, 1:39:12.920 --> 1:39:17.559 whatever those parts, if they're good and they have life, 1:39:17.560 --> 1:39:21.280 they'll live forever. Right. They're melodies right there, there are words, 1:39:21.320 --> 1:39:24.479 you know whatever. You have, not full songs, but you 1:39:24.479 --> 1:39:25.840 have those parts. So I was doing a lot of that. 1:39:25.840 --> 1:39:27.720 But I got to think of the time I did 1:39:27.720 --> 1:39:31.880 some film composing. Patrisia was kind of worn out, you know, 1:39:32.320 --> 1:39:34.679 you know, the same routine over and over again, trying 1:39:34.680 --> 1:39:37.720 to be part of that machine. And you know, we 1:39:37.760 --> 1:39:41.439 didn't really we really didn't want to continue. Basically, she 1:39:41.479 --> 1:39:43.759 didn't want to continue with that. So I'd produce other people, 1:39:43.800 --> 1:39:46.200 like I said, film scoring and work on other things. 1:39:46.760 --> 1:39:49.040 Well how'd you get the film scoring gigs? 1:39:49.520 --> 1:39:51.760 Just from a couple of different directors, you know, they said, 1:39:51.760 --> 1:39:55.080 you know, hey, you should be doing film scores. I said, okay, yeah, sure, 1:39:55.200 --> 1:39:57.360 I'll do that. In fact, I got one coming up 1:39:57.400 --> 1:40:03.200 now this director Jeff Kramer, who's a great director. So 1:40:03.280 --> 1:40:06.000 that's going to be happening sometime later this after later 1:40:06.040 --> 1:40:06.439 this year. 1:40:08.280 --> 1:40:09.960 So do you like film scoring? 1:40:10.479 --> 1:40:14.559 I do? I do. I I like the usage of 1:40:14.600 --> 1:40:19.080 different instruments. I like the palette. I like to create 1:40:20.520 --> 1:40:23.800 for like a film score. I like to create the 1:40:24.000 --> 1:40:27.840 so called band, whether you'll be an upright bass player, 1:40:28.439 --> 1:40:33.640 you know, a trumpet player, small kit drums, maybe just 1:40:33.640 --> 1:40:37.200 acoustic guitars, electric or violin or quartet, all different things 1:40:37.240 --> 1:40:38.599 like that. I want to mix it up a little 1:40:38.600 --> 1:40:41.439 bit and try to get the emotion whichever the film 1:40:41.520 --> 1:40:44.400 is explaining or talking to me to do. So yeah, 1:40:44.400 --> 1:40:46.479 I do like that, and I love I love writing. 1:40:46.560 --> 1:40:51.080 So writing writing moves everything forward to me. 1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:56.040 At some point it goes from being Pat Bennittar to 1:40:56.200 --> 1:40:59.840 Pat bennetts Ar and Neil Giraldo. How does that happen? 1:41:00.760 --> 1:41:05.800 That happens because Patricia, it's not it's not something she 1:41:07.920 --> 1:41:12.080 was guilty about, but she she felt so much of 1:41:12.400 --> 1:41:15.080 the career that we did really was a partnership. You know, 1:41:15.120 --> 1:41:18.080 you have you have so many bands out there that 1:41:18.080 --> 1:41:22.200 that whatever they are, you know, there's usually one person 1:41:22.240 --> 1:41:25.160 in the band or two people in a band does 1:41:25.479 --> 1:41:29.479 everything and controls there, you know, their dynamic controls, not 1:41:29.600 --> 1:41:33.960 control wrong word musically makes it all kind of flow. 1:41:34.080 --> 1:41:38.040 And she knows, uh what I put into it and 1:41:38.080 --> 1:41:39.880 what I did. But see, early on, for me, I 1:41:40.280 --> 1:41:43.240 followed the Truman thing. You know, you be amazed at 1:41:43.280 --> 1:41:44.920 what you can accomplish if you don't care about who 1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:46.880 gets a credit. And I didn't care. I was just 1:41:46.960 --> 1:41:51.400 happy to do the work that I did. And Patricia 1:41:51.439 --> 1:41:54.000 didn't like how I was treated by the record company 1:41:54.040 --> 1:41:57.880 because at times they weren't very kind, uh, you know 1:41:57.960 --> 1:42:00.679 to me and things. And but it was okay. I mean, 1:42:01.280 --> 1:42:03.759 if you're winning, it's like if you're on a football 1:42:03.760 --> 1:42:06.720 team or baseball whatever it is. If you're winning, that 1:42:06.800 --> 1:42:10.439 changes everything. That's all you care about. Right, So she 1:42:10.600 --> 1:42:12.360 just wanted to be partnering with that we could do 1:42:12.840 --> 1:42:15.080 more things with it. It just it just kind of 1:42:16.600 --> 1:42:19.719 explain what it was from the very beginning. And actually 1:42:20.200 --> 1:42:22.760 her thing too was she never really wanted to be 1:42:23.200 --> 1:42:27.600 the girl, like just the girl singer, like every what 1:42:27.720 --> 1:42:30.320 the record companies were doing. You know, there were no 1:42:30.479 --> 1:42:33.599 girls in bands. There were a few, but not a lot, right, 1:42:34.040 --> 1:42:36.160 And when that happened. If you didn't have a girl 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:37.920 in a band, you couldn't get signed, you couldn't get 1:42:37.960 --> 1:42:40.360 a record deal. That's when you saw all the influx 1:42:40.400 --> 1:42:43.800 of all these girl driven bands that happened. Right, So 1:42:43.840 --> 1:42:46.800 that's all was so I change it and says, okay, sure, 1:42:46.840 --> 1:42:47.479 whatever you want. 1:42:55.439 --> 1:42:59.799 So how was it raising kids as a musician? 1:43:03.400 --> 1:43:07.280 It was great. I mean, you know, we'd watch the 1:43:07.360 --> 1:43:10.839 Laker games and when the kids were younger, and I'd 1:43:10.920 --> 1:43:13.120 have a dat machine run and I'd be writing songs 1:43:13.160 --> 1:43:15.559 in the background and you would be hearing check her 1:43:15.600 --> 1:43:17.559 and talk about how they make plays. You know, somebody 1:43:17.640 --> 1:43:21.120 scoring and you know the kids are laughing and I'm 1:43:21.120 --> 1:43:24.760 writing songs. Yeah, it was easy. I mean we took 1:43:24.800 --> 1:43:27.960 them on every tour, every single one, all the time. 1:43:29.520 --> 1:43:30.439 Well what if they were in. 1:43:30.439 --> 1:43:33.960 School and then we did that and they would we 1:43:33.960 --> 1:43:35.160 were a tutor. 1:43:34.920 --> 1:43:39.360 Doctor, And what are they up to today? 1:43:40.880 --> 1:43:44.920 My youngest Hannah is a tremendous songwriter. My god, she's tremendous, 1:43:45.080 --> 1:43:49.439 a great actress as well. She's It's the blessing and 1:43:49.439 --> 1:43:52.559 the curse to this is I love children. I want 1:43:52.600 --> 1:43:58.200 to have children badly. I thought on Sunday's Italian Day. 1:43:58.280 --> 1:44:00.679 You know, you're gonna break bread, gonna have the family, 1:44:00.680 --> 1:44:02.960 They're gonna eat for like five hours long. It's gonna 1:44:02.960 --> 1:44:06.639 be great. Great kids come over, Hinda walks through the door, Papa, 1:44:06.640 --> 1:44:09.519 can we go in the studio? It's like, oh, man, 1:44:09.640 --> 1:44:14.160 can we just sit around and relax today. So but 1:44:14.240 --> 1:44:17.599 it's great. And my oldest daughter is really talented as well. 1:44:18.520 --> 1:44:20.679 She's the one that has the three babies, three grand 1:44:20.680 --> 1:44:24.680 babies that we have, which she's really talented too, with 1:44:24.960 --> 1:44:28.679 art and a lot of different things, planning, she does these. 1:44:29.160 --> 1:44:33.559 She's just she's a she's got a phenomenal eye. So yeah, 1:44:33.600 --> 1:44:34.120 it's great. 1:44:35.600 --> 1:44:38.559 So how much do you and Pat work now I'm 1:44:38.600 --> 1:44:39.479 talking about on the road. 1:44:40.200 --> 1:44:43.559 On the road a couple well, let's say maybe a 1:44:43.560 --> 1:44:45.360 couple month and a half or something in the summer. 1:44:45.520 --> 1:44:47.960 Maybe there's a month in the fall, month in the spring. 1:44:50.000 --> 1:44:52.080 That's the for me personally, it's the only time I 1:44:52.120 --> 1:44:54.439 can let my brain rest a little bit and I 1:44:54.439 --> 1:44:56.320 could be sort of a teenager while I'm out there. 1:44:56.439 --> 1:45:00.680 You know, I can just play instruments and not have 1:45:00.800 --> 1:45:06.519 to create anything, and just you know, I you know, 1:45:08.000 --> 1:45:09.960 I don't know where songs care. I don't know how 1:45:09.960 --> 1:45:12.599 this even works, and nobody really does and nobody can 1:45:12.640 --> 1:45:15.080 really tell it. But I'll tell you this though. It's 1:45:15.120 --> 1:45:20.360 an obsessive compulsive disorder because it never leaves, so totally 1:45:20.439 --> 1:45:24.400 every minute of my life is writing something, right. I mean, 1:45:24.439 --> 1:45:26.559 you're a great writer, Bob. I mean the way you 1:45:26.600 --> 1:45:28.840 write it. You cover so many things, and when I 1:45:28.880 --> 1:45:31.880 read it, it's like this guy is like writing these 1:45:31.920 --> 1:45:36.240 amazing things. Forget the subject matter. It's brilliant writing, right. 1:45:36.320 --> 1:45:39.320 So you can't stop either. You know, when I wake up, 1:45:39.560 --> 1:45:41.240 I want to be wake Why do I want to 1:45:41.240 --> 1:45:43.400 be awake? Because I want to start writing and it's 1:45:43.439 --> 1:45:47.840 a sickness, so I have. I'm about ready to do 1:45:48.600 --> 1:45:53.679 something profound in a career because I've waited a long time. 1:45:54.200 --> 1:45:58.439 I may be doing a solo record with of course 1:45:58.479 --> 1:46:01.799 all original songs, but different guest stars, a different singers 1:46:01.800 --> 1:46:04.320 and different people on it. That's all about the songs, 1:46:04.320 --> 1:46:06.759 of production and you know the music. 1:46:06.960 --> 1:46:11.960 So needless to say, the landscape has changed dramatically in 1:46:12.080 --> 1:46:18.240 forty years. There were fewer records. Record companies were powerful. 1:46:18.400 --> 1:46:21.240 If you have an established name, you got a shot. 1:46:22.240 --> 1:46:26.600 Now you can be a legendary act from the seventies 1:46:26.920 --> 1:46:30.559 maybe eighties. You can put your heart and soul into 1:46:30.560 --> 1:46:34.760 a record and it falls flat, irrelevant of the quality. 1:46:36.000 --> 1:46:39.120 You know, how is that relative to your incentive to 1:46:39.200 --> 1:46:39.559 do it? 1:46:40.160 --> 1:46:43.240 I don't care. I don't care at all. Honestly, I 1:46:43.280 --> 1:46:46.120 don't care, because just because it falls flat doesn't mean 1:46:46.120 --> 1:46:50.120 it stays flat. Alls it takes is one ear, one 1:46:50.160 --> 1:46:52.560 listened somewhere that kind of goes, wait a minute, this 1:46:52.960 --> 1:46:58.479 could be something. Listen the history of the things that 1:46:58.520 --> 1:47:00.880 I've done. Here's I have a fought be about this too. 1:47:00.920 --> 1:47:02.479 If you listen to a record the first time you 1:47:02.520 --> 1:47:06.280 hear the record, if you love it as a listener, 1:47:07.160 --> 1:47:10.040 that's a problem. I want somebody to listen to it 1:47:10.120 --> 1:47:12.479 and go, hm, I don't know if I'm getting this. 1:47:12.800 --> 1:47:16.840 Second listen maybe, and by the fifth listen, you're going 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:19.320 I can live with this now, you know. I love this. 1:47:19.479 --> 1:47:21.759 And that's It's like I said in the very beginning 1:47:21.800 --> 1:47:23.960 we're talking, is that it doesn't matter where you're at. 1:47:23.960 --> 1:47:25.479 If you have a great song, it will be heard. 1:47:25.800 --> 1:47:28.479 It'll work. And here's the thing that I don't think 1:47:28.920 --> 1:47:32.439 you know. The the thing the rock and roll or 1:47:32.560 --> 1:47:34.720 rock that word or whatever you want to do with that. 1:47:35.280 --> 1:47:43.960 I don't think there's a way to rejuvenate that. Bring 1:47:44.040 --> 1:47:48.920 back phil Oaks. Try to try to mix genres, try 1:47:48.960 --> 1:47:53.880 to have something that has meaning and mix things up. 1:47:54.640 --> 1:47:57.920 Don't be afraid, right, I mean, if you're not brave, 1:47:58.040 --> 1:48:02.280 you have nothing to lose. I mean, you know, huh, 1:48:02.320 --> 1:48:04.960 you know, I just I think it's I have hope, 1:48:05.120 --> 1:48:07.559 you know, yeah, I gotta I gotta stop for a second. 1:48:08.240 --> 1:48:11.799 You mentioned phil Oaks. Correct, why phil Oaks? 1:48:12.640 --> 1:48:17.680 Because you know the that genre, you know, the the 1:48:18.360 --> 1:48:22.679 protest music. I mean that that was that was rocking 1:48:22.800 --> 1:48:26.760 its own self. Like why can't you open up, you know, 1:48:26.920 --> 1:48:31.240 like where his head was at, find out what that is? 1:48:32.200 --> 1:48:37.439 Speak that language. Mix it with Howland Wolf across a 1:48:37.520 --> 1:48:41.439 cross cross gender that not grot wrong words, all right, 1:48:41.479 --> 1:48:45.000 I mean that word across like mix up things so 1:48:45.760 --> 1:48:48.800 different that you have to question, what are you listening to? 1:48:49.800 --> 1:48:50.679 Do you know what I'm saying? 1:48:50.880 --> 1:48:51.600 I know exactly what? 1:48:52.600 --> 1:48:58.680 Yeah, I mean, uh great, you know dre Oh my god, 1:48:59.000 --> 1:49:01.760 that's rock news. If you look at rock as being 1:49:01.800 --> 1:49:05.960 the thing that you know defines a generation, you know, 1:49:06.439 --> 1:49:09.200 the stuff he did was phenomenal, But why don't you 1:49:09.280 --> 1:49:13.839 take uh, you know, like blues Junior kimbroke that vibe 1:49:13.880 --> 1:49:17.840 that really like scary. Oh, I don't know what the 1:49:17.880 --> 1:49:21.800 word scary blues Mississippi blues thing and put it with 1:49:21.920 --> 1:49:27.479 phil Oaks. You know, phil Oaks wrote beautiful songs with 1:49:27.600 --> 1:49:30.080 power Changes is a beautiful melody, one of the most 1:49:30.280 --> 1:49:37.000 prettiest melodies ever written. I mean, and this his mind was, 1:49:37.439 --> 1:49:42.280 it was pure, he was real, you know, So, uh, 1:49:42.680 --> 1:49:45.559 is there something there? I think? Don't be afraid? I mean, 1:49:45.560 --> 1:49:46.640 I think, I. 1:49:48.560 --> 1:49:48.840 Think. 1:49:49.400 --> 1:49:53.080 Uh, I personally, I don't have fear of failure in 1:49:53.120 --> 1:49:55.519 that I don't. I don't have fear of releasing something 1:49:55.520 --> 1:49:57.680 and somebody goes, who cares it gets thirty views? I 1:49:57.680 --> 1:50:01.720 don't care because if I know it's good, it's all 1:50:01.840 --> 1:50:04.920 matters to me. I'm not and I don't think i'll be. 1:50:06.880 --> 1:50:09.799 I'm not the renaissance man, and I'm not gonna change 1:50:09.800 --> 1:50:12.120 the way people listen to music of the way sounds 1:50:12.160 --> 1:50:14.080 are going to be completely different. That's not gonna happen, 1:50:14.720 --> 1:50:17.280 but it's going to be interesting and you may be 1:50:17.280 --> 1:50:19.360 a little shocked what it sounds like. 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:24.240 So you're gonna make this solo album. I Am I 1:50:24.280 --> 1:50:29.240 Am okay human. Pat also wrote a children's book. How 1:50:29.240 --> 1:50:30.080 did that come to be? 1:50:30.479 --> 1:50:33.920 Correct? Yeah, they got a hold of us about writing 1:50:34.120 --> 1:50:38.559 a grandparents book. It was the love the I love Caa, 1:50:38.640 --> 1:50:41.599 I love Rob Light and everybody up there. They've been 1:50:41.680 --> 1:50:45.200 really good for us and really nice people and creative people. 1:50:45.400 --> 1:50:47.519 And we have grand babies and we love them to death, right, 1:50:47.640 --> 1:50:51.080 so why not write a book about grand babies? Just 1:50:51.080 --> 1:50:54.200 have fun, you know, just something something that people can 1:50:54.760 --> 1:50:57.320 look at. You know. The the image of a grandparent 1:50:57.920 --> 1:51:01.040 used to be that old. You know your grandparents, do you? 1:51:01.040 --> 1:51:05.600 You remember then your grandparents see you do? Right? So 1:51:06.280 --> 1:51:08.479 that's not the way it is now, you know. And 1:51:08.560 --> 1:51:12.040 here's the other thing I talk about too. Nobody ever 1:51:12.920 --> 1:51:15.400 thought about what's going to happen to all these rock 1:51:15.439 --> 1:51:20.040 and roll musicians with their health going forward? What's going 1:51:20.080 --> 1:51:23.600 to happen? You know, you got Pete Trampton with his 1:51:24.080 --> 1:51:27.400 terrible thing, you Phil Collins, you got serious issues with 1:51:27.439 --> 1:51:32.080 their health. So for me, I'm looking for Kobe Bryant 1:51:32.160 --> 1:51:36.639 to be my example a person that had in order 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:39.759 to be a musician in this age group in the sixties, 1:51:39.760 --> 1:51:42.280 seventies and eighties. You have to think of yourself like 1:51:42.360 --> 1:51:46.360 Kobe Bryant, as an athlete because you can't do those 1:51:46.360 --> 1:51:49.960 things you did when you were younger. You have to 1:51:50.080 --> 1:51:53.080 change your diet, you have to exercise. You got all 1:51:53.160 --> 1:51:55.439 these things that are and you have to be sound mind. 1:51:56.880 --> 1:52:01.839 That helps everything you're writing your life. 1:52:02.120 --> 1:52:06.400 Okay, you and Pat were inducted into the Rock and 1:52:06.479 --> 1:52:09.960 Roll Hall of Fame. That has to feel good. But 1:52:11.000 --> 1:52:15.840 do you think Pat gets the recognition and attention she deserves. 1:52:15.960 --> 1:52:18.920 Let me use sort of an equivalent thing. Yeah, Stevie 1:52:19.040 --> 1:52:22.360 Nick she has very much has a persona, but as 1:52:22.400 --> 1:52:29.200 a solo act, Pat has more hits and Stevie's been 1:52:29.280 --> 1:52:33.880 embraced by younger generations. You know, what do you think 1:52:33.920 --> 1:52:39.000 about this Pat's place in the firmament and whether there's 1:52:39.200 --> 1:52:44.519 you know, runway to get younger generations on board. Yeah. 1:52:44.600 --> 1:52:47.120 I think what we see usually is we have a 1:52:47.160 --> 1:52:49.639 young collection of people that come to see us all 1:52:49.680 --> 1:52:53.680 the time, and it's evident in our lives. Maybe not 1:52:53.840 --> 1:52:55.960 in the public sector or whatever you're looking at there, 1:52:55.960 --> 1:52:59.320 but in real life. And the parents that bring the 1:52:59.400 --> 1:53:02.679 kids who are like nine years old, thirteen, they're they're 1:53:02.680 --> 1:53:06.559 in it. They're there, and and there's boys, young boys 1:53:06.600 --> 1:53:10.840 that are musicians that are learning the stuff that I've done. 1:53:11.080 --> 1:53:13.679 And there's a lot of that. But for Patricia, she's 1:53:13.720 --> 1:53:18.200 a defiant person. She's a tough person who worked really 1:53:18.479 --> 1:53:22.120 really hard. So and she don't give a fuck. I 1:53:22.200 --> 1:53:26.000 gotta tell you. Her attitude is like, I don't give 1:53:26.040 --> 1:53:30.040 a fuck. She don't care. She's defiant. I love it. 1:53:30.080 --> 1:53:32.640 I love that. I love that she's like that. She 1:53:32.680 --> 1:53:35.280 don't care. So she don't care about that either. She 1:53:35.280 --> 1:53:38.760 don't think about this person getting this person. I think 1:53:38.800 --> 1:53:42.120 the only thing about that rock Call thing was I 1:53:42.160 --> 1:53:48.120 think it takes that long, really like it has to 1:53:48.160 --> 1:53:50.240 take that long. Well, then you got to look at 1:53:50.360 --> 1:53:54.320 who's who's running it. Now, you know, Greg Harris a 1:53:54.360 --> 1:53:57.600 great guy. These are great people. John Sykes go and 1:53:57.680 --> 1:54:00.320 guess guess what, John Sykes. She said, drive me around 1:54:00.320 --> 1:54:02.360 in his station wagon. And I was Rick Darenter to 1:54:02.479 --> 1:54:08.400 to radio stations. He was the guy when I saw him. 1:54:08.439 --> 1:54:11.360 He go, Okay, do you remember in nineteen seventy eight 1:54:11.400 --> 1:54:13.840 I was driving you and Ric Roundry. I says, sure 1:54:13.840 --> 1:54:16.719 I do, John, Yes, I do. You did good? 1:54:19.240 --> 1:54:24.519 Okay? At the Rock and Roll induction ceremony. You did 1:54:24.640 --> 1:54:29.800 most of the talking and Pat was relatively silent. Is 1:54:29.920 --> 1:54:37.880 that your relationship is that Pat? Uh? 1:54:38.160 --> 1:54:44.520 Nah? Well, no, I do not really, I don't know. 1:54:44.760 --> 1:54:47.120 That's a tough question to ask, a tough question to answer. 1:54:47.200 --> 1:54:53.320 I mean, on certain subjects, I definitely are I'm the 1:54:53.360 --> 1:54:56.000 one that's gonna do the talking about other things like 1:54:56.000 --> 1:54:59.400 if we go out with friends or like that she 1:54:59.480 --> 1:55:01.600 does all the time. Can I just listen? I can't 1:55:01.600 --> 1:55:03.280 get a word in. She just talks. 1:55:03.320 --> 1:55:05.640 But she was. 1:55:06.800 --> 1:55:10.280 She she wanted my voice to be heard too, you know. 1:55:10.400 --> 1:55:15.080 She I support a lot of things. I support support children, 1:55:15.080 --> 1:55:18.040 I support schools, music education, I support a lot of 1:55:18.080 --> 1:55:19.920 different things. A lot of people don't know because I've 1:55:19.920 --> 1:55:22.800 been so quiet. To your point early on in our 1:55:22.800 --> 1:55:25.800 conversation today, social media, you should be out there. You 1:55:25.840 --> 1:55:27.720 should be doing that stuff. I don't do it. I 1:55:27.760 --> 1:55:30.800 should do more. I definitely should do more, without a doubt. 1:55:31.880 --> 1:55:35.360 So it was I don't know, I don't know why. 1:55:35.760 --> 1:55:37.720 Just she just she was happy just to kind of 1:55:37.720 --> 1:55:40.680 be there. And she said, go ahead and spider talk, 1:55:40.840 --> 1:55:42.200 do whatever you want, you know. 1:55:42.400 --> 1:55:48.360 So okay, as I said earlier, you're a very verbal, friendly, 1:55:48.520 --> 1:55:52.600 nice guy. Great hang. But you talk about growing up 1:55:53.360 --> 1:56:00.480 with a gooraphobia and other mental maladies. Yeah, we're seeing 1:56:00.520 --> 1:56:05.000 me now telling your story. But do you ever get depressed? 1:56:05.200 --> 1:56:06.760 You ever have moods? 1:56:07.320 --> 1:56:09.280 Sure, I get I get it, but I don't have 1:56:09.440 --> 1:56:14.800 anything like I had before, not at all, nothing like that. Nothing. Yeah. 1:56:14.960 --> 1:56:22.280 I sometimes I'm afraid of moods because I don't really 1:56:22.320 --> 1:56:24.440 get that angry bob. You know. But if I get 1:56:24.720 --> 1:56:28.360 angry about something, I have a little bit fear because 1:56:28.760 --> 1:56:33.480 if somebody, somebody harms somebody emotionally, somebody else, I go 1:56:33.560 --> 1:56:37.440 into Anthony gerald on my fatherland and I will put 1:56:37.520 --> 1:56:39.720 my head, my fist or concrete if I have to, 1:56:40.040 --> 1:56:43.360 I'll protect my own, no question. Or if somebody's bullying. 1:56:43.920 --> 1:56:48.400 I hate bullying. I hate faceless cowards. I hate all 1:56:48.440 --> 1:56:51.360 that stuff. Don't like it. You know that don't get me? 1:56:51.800 --> 1:56:55.200 So maybe I maybe I choose to be silent in 1:56:55.200 --> 1:56:57.280 that way because I don't want to deal with the ugliness. 1:56:57.480 --> 1:56:59.600 You know, I'll write about it. You'll see it in 1:56:59.600 --> 1:57:03.120 the New Star songs that I'm writing. Is there's something there, 1:57:03.720 --> 1:57:04.320 you'll hear it. 1:57:04.440 --> 1:57:08.240 Okay, But you portray your life. There's a lot of 1:57:08.360 --> 1:57:11.160 solitary time. You wake up at three point thirty in 1:57:11.200 --> 1:57:14.280 the morning, you never get into dark spaces. 1:57:15.600 --> 1:57:18.720 I do, I do, but I let. Luckily, I'm able 1:57:18.720 --> 1:57:20.920 to channel that into writing. I mean, because it's the 1:57:20.960 --> 1:57:24.040 only way you can let the endorphins take care of depression. 1:57:24.760 --> 1:57:26.440 You know what it's like when you write something great. 1:57:26.840 --> 1:57:29.160 I know you you're writing something. You go, damn, that's 1:57:29.200 --> 1:57:31.920 a good line. Damn I wrote that. That was really good. 1:57:32.040 --> 1:57:32.880 I know you're doing that. 1:57:33.040 --> 1:57:33.360 Bob. 1:57:33.960 --> 1:57:34.680 Well, the funny are you? 1:57:35.040 --> 1:57:39.720 The funny thing is I can see that people say, oh, 1:57:40.040 --> 1:57:43.120 nobody knows what a hit is et One of my 1:57:43.200 --> 1:57:46.440 favorite stories. That's hanging with Al Cooper and he's telling 1:57:46.520 --> 1:57:49.680 me the story of how he got a call from 1:57:49.760 --> 1:57:53.120 Ronnie van zandt we have a new record. We do 1:57:53.280 --> 1:57:56.480 song we want to record. The first album had just 1:57:56.600 --> 1:57:59.160 come out. He says, come into the studio. They're in Florida, 1:57:59.200 --> 1:58:02.320 he's in Atlanta, says, come to the studio on Monday, 1:58:02.320 --> 1:58:05.600 we'll cut it. The record did not come out for 1:58:05.680 --> 1:58:10.320 a year. It was you know, Sweet Home Alabama. And 1:58:10.400 --> 1:58:12.200 I said, Al, did you know it was a hit? 1:58:12.440 --> 1:58:19.440 And he said it was sweet Home Alabama. The people 1:58:19.480 --> 1:58:23.880 who do something great. You know when you do something great, 1:58:23.920 --> 1:58:27.040 And that's why I love you talked earlier. You hit 1:58:27.080 --> 1:58:29.080 me with your best shot of it. You know it, 1:58:29.680 --> 1:58:32.600 and you bet you try to hit an eleven and 1:58:32.640 --> 1:58:35.720 you can't hit an eleven on a regular basis. Anybody 1:58:35.720 --> 1:58:38.200 tells you they can is full of shit. You're never 1:58:38.200 --> 1:58:41.960 gonna do something shitty, but something that little bit extra. 1:58:42.640 --> 1:58:45.720 You're searching for it. You know when you do it, 1:58:46.000 --> 1:58:50.760 and then you're depressed after its over. I listen, by 1:58:50.800 --> 1:58:53.200 the way, I love Al Cooper. He's a great guy. 1:58:53.360 --> 1:58:56.280 I love that guy. He's done great, great stuff. But 1:58:56.600 --> 1:59:00.360 you know, like I said, you know, it's just being trueful. 1:59:00.400 --> 1:59:03.520 I mean, that's all it is. Here's the thing, too, 1:59:03.560 --> 1:59:06.560 I love the what is it Warren Buffett thing? What 1:59:06.680 --> 1:59:10.640 he says he says, if if what he uses as 1:59:10.680 --> 1:59:12.440 a deal, I don't care if it's a deal any 1:59:12.560 --> 1:59:16.240 this is any subject. But if he says it's like, yeah, 1:59:16.320 --> 1:59:19.920 that's a really good deal, he says, don't do it. 1:59:20.760 --> 1:59:23.560 That's a great deal. Don't do it. 1:59:24.440 --> 1:59:27.600 Oh hell yeah, do it. And so it's the same 1:59:27.600 --> 1:59:30.840 with a hit. You just know it when I heard 1:59:30.880 --> 1:59:34.160 When Doves Cry the first time, I went, that's a smash. 1:59:34.280 --> 1:59:40.160 That's a fantastic song. Different hit, you know, And the 1:59:40.200 --> 1:59:43.320 things that we've done that were big hits, I knew 1:59:43.320 --> 1:59:47.920 they were. You can't kid yourself. I know that. You 1:59:47.960 --> 1:59:50.800 know if somebody like the record companies, So what do 1:59:50.840 --> 1:59:53.440 you think of this? If you say, yeah, excuse me, 1:59:53.480 --> 1:59:56.640 I think it's pretty good. That's not a hit. That's 1:59:56.680 --> 2:00:00.400 not you got to say, oh hell yeah, oh hell yeah. 2:00:00.680 --> 2:00:04.920 That's why Bob that oh hell yeah song will always 2:00:04.920 --> 2:00:07.960 get hurt. It will always get hurt. Alls it takes 2:00:08.040 --> 2:00:11.600 is the right thing, and then it multiplies and multiplies. 2:00:11.640 --> 2:00:14.240 It's like sickness. It's like a disease. It just keeps 2:00:14.280 --> 2:00:15.560 going in a positive way. 2:00:16.800 --> 2:00:18.200 Well, now you're inspiring me. 2:00:19.240 --> 2:00:21.280 Well hell yeah, I mean I don't have to inspire you. 2:00:21.360 --> 2:00:23.040 You're a I'm telling you. 2:00:23.040 --> 2:00:23.280 You know. 2:00:24.080 --> 2:00:26.680 I love Colin Coward, you know, the sports guy, right 2:00:27.120 --> 2:00:30.120 because he talks about sports, but then he goes off 2:00:30.240 --> 2:00:35.920 and talks about other things because sports is real life. 2:00:36.080 --> 2:00:38.600 Like there's a real life going on right there. And 2:00:38.720 --> 2:00:41.840 like Bill Cower, similar sort of name, Bill Cowher. I 2:00:41.840 --> 2:00:44.800 love it. I ran into coach Cower, and I says, 2:00:44.840 --> 2:00:47.240 you know what, I really loved that. She said, if 2:00:47.240 --> 2:00:50.680 a player makes a mistake, he pulls them aside and goes. 2:00:50.840 --> 2:00:53.920 You owe me. The player does good, he comes back, 2:00:53.960 --> 2:00:57.920 he goes worry even right, So you know these things 2:00:57.960 --> 2:01:00.600 are all true. I'm telling you that the reason you 2:01:00.840 --> 2:01:03.200 love to write is you're getting in the doorphin rush 2:01:03.280 --> 2:01:04.840 because you got a lot of shit wrong with you. 2:01:04.880 --> 2:01:06.480 I read this stuff. You know, Ah you got you 2:01:06.520 --> 2:01:08.480 went to the dentist, you went to ah, you got 2:01:08.520 --> 2:01:11.480 all these things. I've seen you laughing. They can't hear 2:01:11.520 --> 2:01:12.280 you on the podcast. 2:01:12.560 --> 2:01:15.960 Say, you know, the funny thing is you're one hundred 2:01:16.160 --> 2:01:20.080 percent right, and you know these types of things. I 2:01:20.120 --> 2:01:24.120 talk to my psychiatrist. I know a lot of business 2:01:24.240 --> 2:01:28.000 people and we're friends. But the people I really could 2:01:28.080 --> 2:01:32.600 relate to the artists. It's just something different. I could 2:01:32.600 --> 2:01:37.720 go on and on, but that's about me in any event, Neil, Hell, yeah, 2:01:37.840 --> 2:01:41.120 it was great talking to you. Great talking to you too. 2:01:41.320 --> 2:01:44.960 Anytime you need you need any ps psychiatric help, call me. 2:01:45.040 --> 2:01:47.680 I'll help you through it. As well as I say, 2:01:47.760 --> 2:01:51.960 you're inspiring me. And I wasn't in the greatest mood earlier. Well, 2:01:52.000 --> 2:01:54.840 anytime you need to you need to talk, just call me. 2:01:54.880 --> 2:01:57.400 I'll be happy to talk to you off the record, 2:01:57.480 --> 2:02:00.120 whatever you want. Man I love what you do of 2:02:00.160 --> 2:02:04.520 thin song. That's been amazing. Thank you until next time. 2:02:04.920 --> 2:02:28.200 This is Bob left set H