1 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Says Podcast. 2 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist, producer, songwriter Neil Giraldo. Neil, 3 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 1: when we were setting this up, I heard that you're 4 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: an early riser. How does that work with being a 5 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: rock and roller. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 2: Well, let me give you what they give me. You're 7 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 2: my philosophy to you, Bob, and I just want to say, 8 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 2: you wanted a very few people that can actually pronounce 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: my name properly, So you in Giraldo, you made sure 10 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 2: that usually they leave the l out. I don't know why, Gerardo, 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: and I just don't get it. But there's the idea 12 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 2: about if you get up really early when it's dark, 13 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: and you go to sleep when it's dark, you get 14 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: two nights in every day. See how that works. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm very much a knight person, and that's a 16 00:00:57,840 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: good line. So when do you get up and when 17 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: do you go to bed? 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,319 Speaker 2: Well, it could be as early as nine thirty, and 19 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:07,479 Speaker 2: it could be as late as eleven, and I wake 20 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 2: up usually three thirty, almost every day every day. 21 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: Okay, one would say that's very little sleep. 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,640 Speaker 2: It is, but I think on percentages, the percentages of 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: nine thirty are a lot better than the percentages of eleven, 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 2: except when I'm on the road or something, or if 25 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: in the studio. So yeah, it's just the thing. I 26 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: always been that way. I always get up early and 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: as soon as I want. The problem is is I 28 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 2: want to be awake, that's the problem. And when I 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: wake up, my mind just goes. I start writing immediately, 30 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: and it's great. I'm by myself, my dog, I light 31 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: a candle, the wife don't wake up till about seven 32 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 2: thirty eight. I'm there by myself or four hours. 33 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: So you write every day, every day. Tell me about that. 34 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 2: Well, that's not only songwriting, but the words. I have 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: a production company called bel Kiaso Entertainment, work on streaming 36 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: TV shows, episodes, episodic things, and anything that pops into 37 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 2: my head I kind of get carved into right away. 38 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: I don't pick up an instrument. It's usually just writing 39 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:16,639 Speaker 2: scribbling that time. But sometimes they do that as well. 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 1: So if you're on the road, what time do you 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: get up? 42 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: I kind of do the same thing. Sometimes it's more 43 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 2: like around five, but it doesn't matter what times, though, Bob, 44 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 2: It's it's really terrible. I mean, if I go to 45 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: the East coast. I'll still get up at like three 46 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: point thirty or four. I mean, it's bad. I've been 47 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: doing it for years forever, you know, kind of who 48 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 2: I am. 49 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm sort of the reverse. I like the nighttime on 50 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: the other end, because as you say, it's very few 51 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: distractions the time as your own. Just before we started, 52 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: you said, oh, I have to turn off my phone. 53 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: I'm in this text thread with all these comedians. 54 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, what is that about. Well, they dive into all 55 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 2: kinds of stuff. Not only them, they're journalists and writers, 56 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: but they're just they're not only is a great information, 57 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 2: they're very funny. You know, when I moved to New 58 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 2: York and I was twenty one years old, I this 59 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: is a I'll get to this better. The manager was 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 2: owned catch a Issing Star and it was a comedy club. 61 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 2: So basically it was in the comedy club every night, 62 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: every night, every night. So all they become all friends, 63 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 2: like Billy Crystal and Lenny Schultz, Gilbert Goffrey, Rodney Dagerfield, 64 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: all those folks, right, So I was always surrounded, which 65 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 2: was great because working in a band and doing everything 66 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: you need to do to make music and make it 67 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: all right, you need comedy, you know, because you just 68 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: need to find it a way out so you can 69 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: clear your head and come back and be discharged and 70 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: ready to do what you're supposed to be doing, what 71 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: is making music and writing songs. 72 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: So who's on this thread? 73 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: Well, I can't give you everybody. We had a couple 74 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 2: John de Bellis, eve middleman, Uh, Brian Caram who's actually 75 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: a White House journalist so he's on there, and a 76 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: bunch of other folks. It's just uh, it's just crazy, 77 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: it's just fun. Well how many people totally Oh, there's 78 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: there's not many. They come and go. There's probably six 79 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 2: something like that. But they're just they're they're they're brilliant. 80 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 2: I mean, it's just funny and and things all the time. 81 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 2: One one comedy John he lives in Nicaragua, so he's 82 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,840 Speaker 2: in a whole totally other world. So yeah, person of 83 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 2: Poup Spring, Sun of California, Spain, all over the place. 84 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: And what is usually the topic of conversation. 85 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 2: Oh, it's political, it's political, but uh it could it 86 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 2: could swing. Like we were talking about David Johansson today. 87 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: You know I did see your your your post today. 88 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: I did read I also read the the responses that 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: the folks do, and I just, you know, I just 90 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: have to apologize to you because I read everything that 91 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: you're right, and you're brilliant, You really are. You cover 92 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 2: so many basis and so many so much ground on 93 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 2: so many different subjects, which is what I really love. 94 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: And what I do is I don't usually read them. 95 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: I did today because I was gonna talk to you. 96 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 2: Usually usually I wait for a week or two weeks, 97 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: and then I read it as a book, as each 98 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: one's a chapter, and then I read it like and 99 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: I keep them my store them in a folder because 100 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: they're great reading and they're great to share to, you know, 101 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 2: especially the music things to young people who I talk 102 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 2: to all the time, and I think it's brilliant writing. 103 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 2: So anyway, you're talking about David Joe and the reason 104 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 2: I don't and I'm not a oh, how do I 105 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: say this? Right? I'm not oh. I'm not trying to 106 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 2: make myself any better than anybody else here at all. 107 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: So really you got to understand what this comes from. 108 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: But I generally don't like posting it because I don't 109 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: want to start with the word I. You know, I 110 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: want the people to understand who that person is. So 111 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: I saw when he did Jeff Beck, I's already to 112 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: do all these people, and a lot of them I 113 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: do know and had, you know, relationships with them. But 114 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 2: I don't like seeing, well I record to this record 115 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:04,360 Speaker 2: for them or I try to leave that. It's really 116 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 2: hard for me to post any of that. So it's difficult. 117 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: Okay, I completely understand that. But to be a successful musician, 118 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: you have to network and promote yourself. 119 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 2: I do realize that, and I must say that I'm 120 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 2: really bad at it, and I'm not the old guy 121 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: that says I ain't going to do so. I don't 122 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: want that, not that at all. If it disturbs my 123 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: creative time, which isn't the morning i'd rather tip. On 124 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 2: the other side, I do have to maybe I'll do 125 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: better this year. Right. I do post some things and 126 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 2: people respond. I try to get back to it's really 127 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 2: hard for me, and I'm not I'm not that guy. 128 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: I'm not that old guy that says I ain't going 129 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: to do any of the stuff. It's all bullshit. You know, 130 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 2: what's to go back to the telephone dial up or what. 131 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 2: I'm not the guy, but I do need to promote 132 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,920 Speaker 2: that stuff, so so help me, Bob, help me out. 133 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: Come on, Okay, let's go back to work. You get 134 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 1: to me your work, and your manager is the guy 135 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: who runs catch a rising star forget his name? 136 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: Suddenly Rick Newman. Yeah, and how did that happen? Well, 137 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 2: he came. He came a year later. I have to 138 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: preface what happened before that. I was I'll give you 139 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: the New York story because that's that's going to have 140 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 2: some entrance in the way my kind of life expanded. 141 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: But when I got to New York, I was there 142 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: to audition for Dan Hartman and Rick Derringer. And it's 143 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: because somebody saw me play in Cleveland at a club 144 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: and they asked me if I would be interested. I says, yeah, yeah, 145 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: of course, but let me talk to my bandmates because 146 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 2: I don't want to I don't want to do anything 147 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 2: behind your back. I want to make sure they're okay 148 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: with me doing it. Maybe if I get the gig, 149 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: I won't be able to be in the band. So 150 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: I went up there and I auditioned for Rick first, 151 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: and after I got done, I says, well, I got 152 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 2: an audition for Dan Hartman next. He goes, no, you don't. 153 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean not doing? He goes, well, 154 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: ain't going anywhere? Well, I said, do I got the gig? 155 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 2: He goes not yet. I said, okay, So there's a 156 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: lot of humor in this, and then I'll get to 157 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 2: get to rising star. But there's a lot of humor 158 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: in this. Because I was standing outside the door. I 159 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: had a white T shirt on, a pair of jeans, 160 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: a rope belt, a pair of white sneakers slip on 161 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 2: sneakers kids, and I saw this guy walk out and 162 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: I heard him playing, and he was amazing, like an 163 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: amazing guitar player. He came out, hair beautiful, all poory 164 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: in his studs, leather jacket, leather pants, shoes. He goes, hey, 165 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 2: how you doing, kid? I go, oh, I'm good. But 166 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: your name he goes, Rudy Valentino. I went, oh, shit, 167 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 2: Rudy Valentino, Neil Geroldo. How I got a chance with this? 168 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:41,959 Speaker 2: I thought, I felt like just turning around and walking 169 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: out of sires, this isn't gonna happen. But I did 170 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: go in there and and I did get on with 171 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 2: her quite well. So I went home back to Cleveland, 172 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: and he asked me to come back, and eventually I 173 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: got I had to go write some new music, so 174 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 2: I wrote a couple songs, came back, played it for him. 175 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: He goes, okay, all right, all right, I think you're okay, 176 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: And because I played two and that kind of helped 177 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 2: the whole thing. But anyway, so you got to progress 178 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: a year later, and that's when I met Patricia. And 179 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: Rick Newman was Patricia's manager and then he became my 180 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 2: manager as well. So in the early days, which would 181 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: have been set in nineteen seventy nine in the month 182 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: of May, always in Catcher Isaac Star for years and 183 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 2: years and years after all the time, and that's where 184 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 2: all the comedians were, and they would always do their 185 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 2: routines and then they'd come into the bar or where 186 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 2: I would be, and then they would say, what do 187 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 2: you think about that? Let me do Then they do 188 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,680 Speaker 2: their routine again, something different to see what I thought. 189 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: And they were now super super great, super great people 190 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 2: and real nice and I just enjoyed that and it 191 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: was a lot of laughs, a lot of good times. 192 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 1: Okay, let's go back. You're playing in your band in Ohio. 193 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: Do you have dreams of making it at the time 194 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: of going to the coast being a recording person. Are 195 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:58,920 Speaker 1: you just doing what you're doing? 196 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: I had, I had big dreams, but I thought they 197 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: were shattered and I thought they were gone. I I 198 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,559 Speaker 2: was a very sick child. I'll get to that. I'd 199 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: get to that later, but really really sick. I had 200 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 2: terrible health when I was younger, really really bad. But 201 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 2: I got to the point where I thought, well, I'm 202 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 2: not gonna make it as a as a rock and 203 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 2: roll quote guitar player, It's not gonna happen. I could 204 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 2: play piano. And some of my you know heroes, we 205 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: were jazz people. But Paul Eric Gardner, you know, Bill Evans, 206 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 2: all the great winscomb as dou Kellyton, all those folks. Right, 207 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 2: So I studied a lot of piano, and I thought, well, 208 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: I could get married, I can have a couple of kids. 209 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 2: I can live in Cleveland and the weekends I'd go 210 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 2: play cocktail bars and just play piano. That's probably the end. 211 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 2: But then a very successful, very good musician, great musician 212 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 2: named Kevin Rally who was in a bad called Michael 213 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: Stanley Band. He wanted to put a band together and 214 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 2: he thought it would be fun. We can, but they 215 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: were terrible venues. It was like a lounge band, it was. 216 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 2: And then we'd move around, play a different instruments. Okay, 217 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 2: So and I thought, well, this is where it's going. 218 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,680 Speaker 2: I'm going to be that cocktail piano player. So my 219 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 2: dreams were shattered. I was playing up there hoping, but 220 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 2: and then somebody saw me and said, what are you 221 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: doing here? You need to be with another top name artist, 222 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 2: and I went okay. Then I got the I went 223 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 2: up to New York and that's how began. 224 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: Do you know where you were playing and who saw you? Yeah? 225 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: At he was at the Brown Derby restaurant in Cleveland. 226 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 2: I can't remember what city was it. And the guy 227 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: that saw me, his name was Tracy Coates. You know, Bob, everybody, 228 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: I think you can count five people. You can count 229 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:45,439 Speaker 2: the five people that I won't get metaphysical and getting 230 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: a different play in here, but five people that changed 231 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 2: your life. Five people. This guy was one of. His 232 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,079 Speaker 2: name is Tracy Coates, and he owned a PA company 233 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: and meaning he would do He was from Cleveland, but 234 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 2: he did a lot of shows nationally, right, so he 235 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: always heard about all the different musicians and bands that 236 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: were looking for players, right, So that's how it was. 237 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 2: He saw me, and he was a great guy and 238 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: he thought I played, thought it was pretty good. I 239 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 2: don't know. And that was the guy. He's one of a. 240 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: Five, okay, a little slower. So he sees you. Does 241 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: he come up to you at the end of the 242 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 1: gig and say, hey, I'm going to hook you up 243 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: or you home in the phone rings? How does it 244 00:12:26,720 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: actually happen? Do you end up with auditions for Darren 245 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:31,199 Speaker 1: jer and Hartman? Yeah? 246 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: He's what he did is it was we took a break. 247 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 2: You know that you do three sets. We did one 248 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 2: set and I just went out to grab a smoke, 249 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: have a cigarette, you know, And as I'm walking through 250 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: the crowd, he comes out. He goes, hey, I'm Tracy 251 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: Coates and man, you can play whenever and would you 252 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: be interested? I said, really, of course I would be. 253 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 2: He goes, well, here's my number, call me and I'll 254 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: say her. And that's how it happened. He set it 255 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 2: up about a weekly after my band. I must say 256 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 2: this is you know, excuse me, it's important you're playing 257 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: in a band you'd be true to and uh, you 258 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 2: know you that's who you're with, and you have to 259 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: ask them if it's okay, and they all said, yeah, sure, 260 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 2: no problem, no problem. The ironic part of this, Bob, 261 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 2: this is where the universe steps in the other guitar 262 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 2: player bass player because I played bass in their guitar 263 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,840 Speaker 2: and keyboards all this stuff. You know, he went up 264 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: to audition for Derrenger before me, but he never told anybody. 265 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:28,439 Speaker 2: Oh so, and and the real weird part about this 266 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 2: is he came up there for the final five. Who's 267 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 2: in the final five? And he's And I was shocked 268 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 2: to see that he was there and go, what are 269 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: you doing here? He goes, well, you know I've been 270 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 2: up here. I went what I never knew, never knew. Right, 271 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 2: he's a great guy too, but that was real weird. 272 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: Right. 273 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: So we were and we were rooming together in a hotel. 274 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 2: We only had one one day, one night, and then 275 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 2: we'd have to fly home. I'd have to fly home 276 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 2: the next day. And so the manager called for Rick 277 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 2: and said, when a thing, thank you. You're gonna love this, Bob, 278 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 2: because this is a great call. He says, I really 279 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 2: want to thank you for your time and your effort. 280 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: Rick really liked the way you played. Really, I just 281 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 2: want to wish you the best, and you know, thank 282 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: you for coming up. Bob thinking, I looked, pointed at 283 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: the guy. Go you got it, dude, right. He goes, 284 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: can you just come by and say talk to Rick 285 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:21,400 Speaker 2: a little bit? He was in the it's on fourteenth Street. 286 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 2: I think are close to it, right by Real Sweeney's 287 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 2: in Manhattan. So I said, sure, I'll go down. I 288 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: was really disappointed. Bum dot I walked. I mean, I 289 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: got in the cab, opened the door, Rick opened me in. 290 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 2: He stood there, he goes, shook my hand. He goes, 291 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: come on in, you're in the band. I went, I'm 292 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 2: in the band. It was. It was profound, it really was. 293 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 1: It was. 294 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: And then he hands me an explorer, a guitar, Gibson 295 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 2: explorer with a serial number like fifty four, some ridiculous one. 296 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 2: And we go back in the brown storm. We're jam 297 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: and I'm saying, Rick, I got really good ears. I 298 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 2: could say that, but my eyes are really bad. You 299 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 2: got a lot of lamps around here. I go, dude, man, 300 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 2: I shouldn't be holding this guitar. And we just jammed, 301 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 2: like for hours, and that's how I got the gig 302 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: and went back to the hotel. I says, Rogers just 303 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 2: looked at me and goes, you got the gig, right, 304 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 2: I go, I did. I'm sorry. You know, I felt 305 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 2: bad for him. You know, that's you know, everybody had 306 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 2: those hopes and dreams and it just worked out. 307 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: So what ended up happening to him and what ended 308 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: up happening to the rest of the band. 309 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: Oh well, the rest of the band, they kind of 310 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 2: just split up. He just worked I think origionally in 311 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 2: Ohio with different bands and stuff, and Kevin actually became 312 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 2: He's a great guy. Kevin had a great voice, great writer, 313 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: a great keyboard player. He became manager of the Dead 314 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 2: Kennedys and a few other bands. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, 315 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: it was It was interesting. And then the drummer had 316 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 2: a real bad health scare during COVID, but he again 317 00:15:57,520 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 2: went to play with some other bands. I thinks, so 318 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: they just they just stayed there. 319 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Ohio, you know right now it has been for 320 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: years somewhat to press, you know, the steel industry and 321 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 1: other things going on. I'm always amazed at Ohio. You 322 00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: drive through, There's this place in the middle of nowhere 323 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: with all these people. So you're growing up in Ohio. 324 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: You know Rick Deringer was from Ohio, wasn't he? And 325 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: you have Joe Walsho's from New Jersey, but he makes 326 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: it in the Ohio. Yeah. The Michael Stanley band who 327 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: gets a number of shots that never really breaks through. 328 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,360 Speaker 1: So when you were Ohio, is there someone that you 329 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: pointed to and said, Okay, I want to be like 330 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,200 Speaker 1: him or did you feel like, man, I'm in the 331 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere. Well, it. 332 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: Felt like the middle of nowhere one way, and in 333 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: another way it didn't because it gave all the musicians 334 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: and people that lived in a blue collar, very tough, 335 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 2: tough town, Steel Town a chance to find an escape path. 336 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 2: Right And since I was sick, and i'll go into 337 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 2: that thing right now, is that you know I was 338 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: sick from the day I was born for years and years. 339 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 2: It wasn't until I was saying, like sixteen fifteen sixteen 340 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 2: where I thought I didn't get over and I did. 341 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: But then I had a relapse when I was about twenty. 342 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 2: But then I eventually got through it. But I'll get 343 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 2: to that whatever it is. But I didn't feel I 344 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 2: didn't feel small in that town. I really liked. I 345 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 2: liked the mentality of a blue of a blue collar 346 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: work ethic, because the people there really work hard. And 347 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: when you had to go do gigs, you had to 348 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 2: drive through snowstorms, your hands would freeze your knuckles, your 349 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: cars wouldn't start. You slam your hands in the door. 350 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: I mean, all that stuff which gives you a purpose, 351 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 2: makes you think about, think about who you are and 352 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 2: where are you're gonna go, and it keeps you strong. 353 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: You don't there's no chance for you to get soft 354 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 2: in a town like that. So to me it was 355 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 2: a It was a real blessing. So I didn't feel small. 356 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 2: And I always believe this, and I believe this from 357 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,640 Speaker 2: then till till the day I die. Is that if 358 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 2: you have a great song or you have talent, you 359 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:18,439 Speaker 2: will be found. 360 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: You won't. 361 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: You won't disappear unless you unless for some reason it's 362 00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 2: you're not prepared, it's not going to work out for you, 363 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: which happens sometimes, you know. But if you have a 364 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: great song, people are going to hear that song. You know, 365 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 2: even without the Internet, they'll hear it. You'll be found, 366 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 2: you will. 367 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: So what term did you grow up in Ohio? 368 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: In a town, a little town called Parma outside of Cleveland, 369 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:45,160 Speaker 2: but it was very close to the Cleveland tracks. All 370 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: the Italians Sicilian because of Sicilian. On one side of 371 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 2: the three were all the Sicilian. The other side were 372 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 2: the Ukrainians. So it was very weird. And that'll go 373 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 2: back to my name too, but it was they thought 374 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 2: the town of Parma, when they're coming from Bronte Katania, 375 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 2: Sicily and they come into America, Parama, let's go live 376 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 2: for that. It's gotta be Italian town, right, So a 377 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: lot of Sicilians and like I said, Ukrainians. I'll go 378 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,719 Speaker 2: to this because we're on the subject of Cleveland's. When 379 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: I was born, I was I had the cord wrapped 380 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 2: around my head on my neck multiple multiple times, and 381 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 2: when I came out, I was suffocated from I wasn't 382 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: a blue baby, but I was the next step down, 383 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 2: the next step up from that, so I couldn't breathe 384 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 2: and they thought they were gonna lose me. My parents. 385 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 2: My parents were Anthony Geraldo, my mother, Angelomettia Geraldo, my 386 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 2: sister Priscillamettia Geraldo, Neil Geraldo. How does that happen? Bob, Well, 387 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 2: let me tell you how it happens. So here I am. 388 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: I'm not born, they slap, they do the whole thing. 389 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: I'm not breathing. They go into a panic back then, 390 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,640 Speaker 2: so they take me. It takes a while they bring 391 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 2: me to be. I finally come in. My parents were 392 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 2: so relieved that they didn't lose me and that I 393 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 2: didn't die and end up a blue, blue baby, and 394 00:19:55,800 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: that's the end. Right. But the doc there's name was 395 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 2: Cornelius Cassidy. So I was supposed to be Nunzio Nunzio 396 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: or Nunziato Nunziato Geraldo. Right, Instead I became Neil and 397 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 2: not Cornelius because of doctor Cassidy. So that's how I 398 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 2: got my name, bringing me into this life. So from 399 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 2: the minute I was, I came out of the womb, 400 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: I was, I was, I was, I was all planned 401 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 2: out for me to be dealing with, Oh, the the 402 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 2: crazy uh oh, the emotional sickness of what that means, 403 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 2: you know, suffocating the day you were born, you know is. 404 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: So tell me more about this illness and other health problems. Yeah. 405 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: So, so I went to school at a very early 406 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 2: age because I was born in December. My mother wanted 407 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 2: to get me out of the house, right, you gotta 408 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 2: go to the house. But I was sick. My stomach 409 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 2: was always terrible, always sick. And then I had this 410 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 2: emotional thing with this claustrophobia where the walls were always 411 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 2: too tight and it was always too hot in those rooms. 412 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 2: And then I got to then I group from claustrophobia 413 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: to agoraphobia, where I had fear of the outside of 414 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 2: the with all people. You know, I was going. I 415 00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 2: was going, like mentally off the rails. And every time 416 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 2: I go to school, elementary school, did the principal, the 417 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: people there would call my mother and say, you know, 418 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 2: you got to come and pick up your son. He's 419 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 2: sick again. It was all the time, and I barely 420 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 2: was in school. I went to a Catholic school. I 421 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: went to a public school first and a Catholic school, 422 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 2: and I missed confirmation and things that you normally do 423 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: in school because I was sick, always sick, and those 424 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 2: emotional things took a toll. But what they did do 425 00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,760 Speaker 2: is when I was six years old, my father bought 426 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 2: me a guitar because they wanted me to do duets. 427 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: My sister, who played accordion and so we can do 428 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 2: Italian songs. That was a good idea, except my uncle 429 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: Timmy on the other side of the family, my grandfather 430 00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 2: passed away at an early age, so he didn't have 431 00:21:59,520 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: a father, and he was sort of the mistake of 432 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 2: the family. He became a mentor, so in essence, he 433 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: kind of lived with our family, and he was only 434 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 2: four years older than me. So and from playing Italian 435 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 2: songs with my sister, then all of a sudden, the 436 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,399 Speaker 2: Yardbirds are coming in and all the other bands, and 437 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 2: then he started feeding me with all these other things. 438 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 2: So this emotional thing, the idea that I had a 439 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: guitar in my hands, it just felt really normal and 440 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: felt right, and it was escape from life because it 441 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 2: was really difficult for me to handle the emotional thing. 442 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 2: I mean, I'd walked through the door at school and 443 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 2: I immediately felt like I have to throw up, you know, 444 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: my stomach got oh, I can't be here. This is terrible, 445 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,040 Speaker 2: and then it was it was. 446 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:47,680 Speaker 1: Awful, Okay, So mostly the problem was emotional mental. Did 447 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: you ever see a professional and how did you ultimately 448 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: get over it or do you still wrestle with these 449 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,120 Speaker 1: issues today? Well? 450 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: What I found out today is that I have an 451 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,879 Speaker 2: abnormality in one part of my boy that there was 452 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 2: actually a reason why the physical part. So the mental 453 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,160 Speaker 2: part was real, but the physical part was real as well, 454 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: and that nobody you got to understand that Cleveland and 455 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 2: Parma is on the west side of Cleveland, Shaker Heights 456 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: Pepper Pike is on the east side. When I was 457 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 2: growing up, I didn't even know what golf was. There 458 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: was no golf course around where I lived. I didn't 459 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 2: know what that even was. On the east side, they 460 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: had golf courses and they had doctors, real doctors. It 461 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 2: was the rich side of the city. I lived on 462 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 2: the foreside. So my parents I go to a doctor. 463 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,520 Speaker 2: I went to the Italian doctor. We say, eat more garlic, 464 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: e moore garlic, drink some wine. So I got a 465 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: little poor wine for dinner. You know, That's all they said. 466 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 2: You know, you didn't get it. You couldn't get it fixed. 467 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 2: So the emotional part was really really difficult. But since 468 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 2: that physical part was with such a stress on my body, 469 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 2: I the two together were a nightmare. It was just 470 00:23:58,520 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: I just it was horrible. 471 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: So how did you ultimately get over it? Both of 472 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,879 Speaker 1: these I got over it. 473 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: One of the five people, you know, the hand of 474 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,880 Speaker 2: the five is the trace, quotes this girl. Her name 475 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 2: was Tara Bruno, Tera Bruno. You have to be listening 476 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,480 Speaker 2: to this when it comes out. You need to know this. 477 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 2: And she knows it already. Anyway, she was she wanted 478 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 2: to She was a friend of mine, and she I 479 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 2: think she thought it was more like a girlfriend boyfriend, 480 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 2: but I was more. I was thinking it was just 481 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 2: like a friend, like a girlfriend. I think it was 482 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: like twelve years old or something. And she went to 483 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: California and she came back and goes, I got to 484 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,200 Speaker 2: tell you something. Two really great things happen, and you 485 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,199 Speaker 2: kind of really love him. I says, Okay, what is it? 486 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 2: He goes, number one, it's a avocado, Swiss cheese, lettuce, tomato, 487 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 2: mayonnaise on rye toast sandwich. I went, what's an avocado? 488 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,400 Speaker 2: That sounds beautiful? She goes, Oh, it's great. It's great. 489 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: I'm gonna make you want. I go fantastic, goes. And 490 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: another thing that I found was this book called The 491 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,080 Speaker 2: Yea Ching. And I says, what is that? She goes, 492 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 2: it can predict your future, and her and I would 493 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:08,439 Speaker 2: lay on these blankets in those Cleveland evenings in the summer, 494 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 2: we look up and we see the stars. Well, we 495 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 2: threw the coins in the e ching, and I still 496 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: have that paper somewhere. I have to go find that 497 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 2: one day. I know I have it. I stored away 498 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,440 Speaker 2: in like momentos things. But we did throw it, and 499 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: it said that I would get my wish and my 500 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 2: dream would come through. But you have to follow these 501 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 2: rules and these laws of the spiritual realm of the eachan. 502 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 2: That book saved my life. Without that book, without Terra Bruno, 503 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be here period. That book did it without it? 504 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 2: No way, no way. 505 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,399 Speaker 1: You're a very verbal friendly guy, Yet you say you 506 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: grew up internalized in not going to school that much. 507 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: Where does all this verbal facility come from? 508 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 2: Because when I wasn't in school, I was reading. I 509 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 2: love to read, and I would try to get every book. 510 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 2: Library was my friend, every book I could possibly get 511 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 2: my hands on and read. And I to this day 512 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 2: i'm and I avid read. I read all the time. 513 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: And it's really kind of the other part that's saved me. 514 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 2: But with the eaching, let me just give you an 515 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,080 Speaker 2: idea where the Eaching lives in my life for a second. 516 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 2: The day that Tracy Coates saw me play at the 517 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 2: brown Derby that night driving up and it was in 518 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 2: a winter it was like February maybe something like that, 519 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 2: really bad, very cold, and I'm pulling up this place 520 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,199 Speaker 2: and the way those gigs went. You play there for 521 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 2: a month, right, you play for three weeks a month 522 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 2: and you go to the next place three weeks. So 523 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 2: I pull up. I'm just pissed off, angry, right, just like, 524 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,200 Speaker 2: damn it, Why do I got to do this? This 525 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 2: is terrible, sliding all over the road. I have my 526 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: sixty three and Paula. I always have to park really 527 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,560 Speaker 2: far away from the club. I have to walk. I'm 528 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 2: dropping the guitar and the case, banging my hands that 529 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 2: way right, whining like a little chooch. Right, So I go, 530 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 2: I'm gonna do something different. I'm gonna use the eching 531 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 2: and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna get really embraced 532 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 2: in what this was going to give me today or 533 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: what I'm gonna be able to create myself. Let me 534 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 2: just focus on it. I pull in a parking lot 535 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 2: and I swear to you, this is absolute truth. I 536 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 2: pull into a parking lot. The very first place for 537 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 2: parking opens up right in front of the door. I 538 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 2: got there, shut the car off, I lit up a cigarette, 539 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: opened the window, I smoked a cigarette. I went, this 540 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: is something's gonna happen tonight, something profound is going to 541 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 2: change my life. And that was the night that Tracy 542 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 2: Coate saw me. And that's how my life changed from 543 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 2: that moment. 544 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: Let's go back to the family. Were your parents born 545 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: in America or the Old Country in America? 546 00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: My grandparents came over. 547 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: So how heavy an influence was the Italian background? 548 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 2: Heavy? Heavy, really heavy. I mean, besides all the people 549 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 2: on the street that were Sicilian. My next door neighbor 550 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: was great. His last name was Alardo, and I couldn't 551 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 2: pronounce it, and I'd give people nicknames. I called it 552 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 2: mister Jim. He would be the guy who would cut 553 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: tires and staple tires on my soles and my shoes. 554 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,520 Speaker 2: And I walk in the house and I walked and crooked, 555 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:16,880 Speaker 2: and my mother goes, did you see mister Jim again? 556 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 2: Did he fix your shoes? I go, he did. They're 557 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 2: working real good right now, thanks mom. You know, so 558 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: there was a lot of Italian spoken in the house. 559 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 2: But you know, my father was really proud to be 560 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 2: an Italian American, you know, born in the country, so 561 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 2: we really were. They really didn't want to press the 562 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: speaking of Italian. But the Italian songs were really important, right, 563 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: just like Catholic church and you know, all the Italian 564 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: Catholic upbringing stuff very important. 565 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: So and what did your parents do for a living? 566 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: Father was a carpenter, one of the toughest human beings 567 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 2: on earth, but one of the sweetest guys and just 568 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: the greatest great if he's the fire, he's one of 569 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 2: the five. Because this man is I love him so much. 570 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 2: He passed away. He was ninety six. In fact, one 571 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 2: day he called me, he goes, son of bitch. Son, 572 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 2: I don't think I'm ever gonna die. I go, pop, 573 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: You're gonna die one day. Trust me, it's gonna happen, 574 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 2: son a bitch. I don't think so very very tough. 575 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: Really really, I can't even begin to tell you how 576 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: to one story, he's got the snowblow where he bought 577 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 2: for fifty bucks or whatever, and he's doing the sidewalks. 578 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 2: All sudden it clogs up. He doesn't shut it off. 579 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 2: He puts his hand in there, clips off the little 580 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 2: piece of his finger. It goes flying with the blood 581 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: spray following it behind trailing. He goes, goes, he had 582 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 2: this little thing he did like this, He goes, son 583 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 2: of a bitch, son, go find my finger. And I 584 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 2: went found his finger packed in the snow. He went 585 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 2: to the hospital and put it back on. So but 586 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 2: that's that's the hardcore part of him. That the heart, 587 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:58,840 Speaker 2: the heart of him is. He never had a negative 588 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: thing to say, my sickness and being home or anything. 589 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 2: He would always say, you know, if that guitar makes 590 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: you feel better, and playing the piano, do it, do it? Son. 591 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 2: You know he wanted me to be a carpenter, but 592 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 2: he didn't force it on me. Let me give you 593 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 2: an idea too. He was a carpenter, work for other people. 594 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 2: He was at a house somewhere. He'd come home with 595 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 2: a piano. I go, pap, where'd you get the piano from? Me? Go? 596 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: Do you want it? I go, sure, I want it 597 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 2: was an upright with some broken keys, and I said, sure, 598 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 2: I'd like it, and he put it in the basement. 599 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 2: That's how I started playing piano because they gave it 600 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 2: to somebody gave it to him because he was so 601 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 2: kind and so thoughtful, thoughtful of a man that, you know, 602 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 2: I wish I could be, you know, a quarter of 603 00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: the man he was, because he was just the greatest 604 00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:43,920 Speaker 2: of all. 605 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: What about your mother? 606 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: My mother was more like a disciplinarian. 607 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:49,719 Speaker 1: You know. 608 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 2: I had this philosophy I think is wrong, where one 609 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: parent has to be passive the other one has to 610 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 2: be assertive. I think that's wrong. But in my house 611 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 2: it was that way. My mother was the assertive. My 612 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,120 Speaker 2: father was passive. Sometimes I walked through the door and 613 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 2: my father would say, don't say anything, it's not your fault, 614 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: but you're gonna probably hear it's your fault. I say, okay, 615 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: I walked through and there it was right. So so yeah, 616 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: she but she was the disciplinarian one. She was the 617 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: one when I was playing, uh, you know, street football 618 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 2: outside in the snow, and she'd come and yell out 619 00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 2: out of the window, it's time to come in and practice, son. 620 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 2: Come on, you got to come in and all the 621 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,040 Speaker 2: all the boys where all the you know, all my 622 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 2: buddies are going man mine, are you coming in to play? 623 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 2: You can't play when you know, give me shit about them. 624 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 2: Oh man, my hands will be frozen. I have to 625 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,520 Speaker 2: play these stupid songs. I for not the Italian songs, 626 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: but I took lessons for I think a year and 627 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 2: a half or two years. It was horrible. The guy 628 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 2: farted in the room. He smoked cigarettes and I had 629 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: to deal with that was horrible. But my mother made 630 00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 2: sure I played oh man, Joe and uh well Santa 631 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,480 Speaker 2: Luccia too. But you know, somebody else is like, oh, 632 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 2: I'm not this isn't working for me. That part, that 633 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 2: part ain't working. 634 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: This was guitar lessons or piano listens. 635 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: This was guitar. 636 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:16,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so you were playing the Italian songs. You know, 637 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: we're contemporaries. You're born in fifty five. What is the 638 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,640 Speaker 1: rock and roll inspiration? Was it the Beatles or did 639 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: it come before that? Or was it none of that? 640 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:29,400 Speaker 1: And just your uncle in the yard bruders? 641 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 2: Okay, it was It was in ninety It was I 642 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 2: think I was five years old. It's five years old 643 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 2: and my mother was playing Heartbreak Hotel by Elvis and 644 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 2: I was in the other room and I went, what 645 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 2: is that? And I ran in I remember to this day, 646 00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 2: I'm listened. I sat in front of the year old 647 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:52,440 Speaker 2: enough to remember this. The Wi Fi, the high Fi sorry, 648 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,120 Speaker 2: the hip fhissist, the console Hi Fi systems. 649 00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: Right of course you could. 650 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: Sit in the middle and then the two speakers were 651 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 2: on the side and it had a two bamp fire 652 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: and I'm listening to this, and I'm here's what defined 653 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 2: me in oh, well, sort of in the music world, 654 00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 2: right when I heard the sparseness of that song, Heartbreak Hotel, 655 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 2: Heartbreak Hotel, and I heard Elvis's voice resonate, the richness 656 00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:21,560 Speaker 2: of it, and the reverb and all that spatialness. The 657 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 2: guitar had its own part, but it was really defined 658 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 2: and often the left and the bass was thumping, and 659 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 2: the drums were small, not small, big in sound, but 660 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 2: a lot of air, reverb, distinct, huge reverb happening kick it. 661 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 2: I deciphered what was going on with that record. At 662 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 2: five years old, I says something about this is what 663 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 2: I want to do. I want to which I didn't 664 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 2: know what producer, I didn't know what arrange any of 665 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 2: that meant, but I didn't know that I wanted to 666 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: make records that sounded like that. Not only did I 667 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: want that. When I saw the RCAA dog the nipper 668 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 2: go around and RCAA round and round and around, I 669 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 2: went that labels really great looking and I loved art. 670 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 2: I would have went to art school, but my mother 671 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: said it was stupid, I shouldn't go, so I didn't go. 672 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,319 Speaker 2: I should have went, but I didn't go. But by 673 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: seeing those labels, that was just as powerful as the 674 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,120 Speaker 2: music coming out to me. Right, So I knew then 675 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 2: that I wanted to play instruments because I wanted to 676 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 2: create that sound. I wanted that sound. I wanted that feel. 677 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 2: You know that it was. It really was lonesome. It 678 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: was a person walking to their death. Not in a 679 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 2: negative not the darkness of it. But you know how 680 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 2: the somberness that the richness of that record to me 681 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 2: just really sunk into me. Really did it hit me? 682 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: Okay, So did you watch the Beatles on Ed Sullivan? 683 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 2: I did, I did it. I didn't get that as much. 684 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 2: I didn't get it. I I don't. 685 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: Know, what is that? 686 00:34:53,640 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 2: Sixty four? It? Yeah, sixty four. I mean I got that, 687 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 2: but it didn't it didn't resonate to me as as 688 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,919 Speaker 2: much as as you know hearing that office record and things. 689 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 2: I I thought it was I thought it was amazing. 690 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 2: I just I couldn't understand why they were screaming all 691 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,400 Speaker 2: the time, you know, they said, you know, I just 692 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: don't understand all the screaming, you know, the headshaking. I 693 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 2: don't know. I just it didn't kind of didn't kind 694 00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 2: of settle settle into me, you know. I mean I 695 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: thought it was cool, but it wasn't. 696 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: So tell me about your uncle of the Yardbirds. 697 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, Uncle Tim was he was great. He took 698 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:34,399 Speaker 2: me to see to who when I was twelve years old. 699 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,480 Speaker 2: That that changed my life. That was it, because I 700 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 2: was listening to the Stones and the Kinks. You know. 701 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: He had all those records and he'd you know, we'd 702 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 2: have them and we'd play them all the time, and 703 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 2: it was it was phenomenal. But he was the guy 704 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 2: he was. He'd be the guy who said, you're gonna 705 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,520 Speaker 2: listen to heart full of Soul and you're gonna play 706 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 2: it right. And I'd be playing you a heartful soul. 707 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 2: You know, now, this is great. Go doesn't sound good? 708 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 2: I said, what do you mean it doesn't sound good? 709 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 2: He goes, it doesn't sound good? Coming out of an 710 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:08,680 Speaker 2: app you need like a distortion what is a distortion pillow? Well, 711 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,000 Speaker 2: you got to get what we got to get you 712 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 2: on and that he was the guy. And then when 713 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,879 Speaker 2: I saw Pete Townsend play at the Music Carnival and 714 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,279 Speaker 2: the Who and Daltry with the swing and the mica 715 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 2: a all like this and Peete just tearing it up, 716 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 2: and then I saw that and I went, that's resonating 717 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 2: because it represented to me growing up in a blue 718 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 2: collar town like Cleveland. It represented that it wasn't it 719 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't the Beatles. To me, it was that 720 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 2: that you know you're on stage, you're giving it everything 721 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 2: you got, like the Jerry Lee Lewis blood is what 722 00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 2: I call it. You hit the stage, give it all, 723 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: give it, give it all there, everything you have, and 724 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 2: then when you walk away, you get off the stage, 725 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 2: you go back to your other kind of life. So 726 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,439 Speaker 2: that really did it. And the concert was crazy because 727 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 2: they only played three songs, and they destroyed all the 728 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,239 Speaker 2: gear because Pete didn't like the sun amps. And then 729 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 2: they were walking out and then we went to come 730 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 2: back in because they said the concert is still going 731 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 2: to go on. They're gonna use the opening band equipment. 732 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 2: So we went in there. But that day I get 733 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 2: back home and I turned my little tiny epiphone INP 734 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,359 Speaker 2: but I turned it up to ten and I went, ooh, ooh, 735 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,280 Speaker 2: this is kind of fun, this is working. 736 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: So so when did you first start playing in bands? 737 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 2: When I was eleven eleven something like that, and we 738 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 2: were eleven and twelve, and my uncle Tim was the 739 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 2: lead singer, so it was being four years older, and 740 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 2: we called the band. It was stupid, stupid name. It 741 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 2: was called neok and Eel, really dumb, stupid name. But yeah, 742 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: that was the first band. 743 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: Well did you just rehearse to the living room or 744 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: did you play gigs. 745 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,840 Speaker 2: In the basement rehearsing the base We did gigs. We 746 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 2: have to sneak me in through the back door, you know, 747 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 2: and I'd get there to here as this little kid 748 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 2: up there playing and you know, we were doing whatever. 749 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 2: You know, yeah, but whatever. We had to play songs. 750 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: We were just playing them, and yeah, it was weird 751 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: because we'd be playing a memory, were playing them, going Wow, 752 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 2: that guy looks like like I'm playing them. They going, 753 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 2: what the hell is he gonna do? It looks like 754 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,360 Speaker 2: he's gonna beat the shit out of me. Where am 755 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 2: I playing? What am I doing? Are they angry? You know, 756 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,440 Speaker 2: sneaking me into pars places behind in the backstage and stuff. 757 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 2: So so we did that for a while. That didn't 758 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 2: last very long, and then I started playing with other bands, 759 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:25,480 Speaker 2: other guys in the neighborhood and stuff. 760 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: Okay, so you're in high school. To what degree are 761 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: you playing gigs in a band? 762 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, it was because because I was that younger 763 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 2: guy was five years old in the first grade. So 764 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,480 Speaker 2: I don't know add up what that is. I don't 765 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 2: know what I was as a freshman or whatever. But 766 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 2: I was playing. I was playing out all the time 767 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 2: with you know, different bands that we were putting together 768 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: and stuff. Yeah, all the time. What did you do 769 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 2: with the money there was? It really wasn't much. I 770 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 2: don't remember eating after the gig. We'd go to eat 771 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,600 Speaker 2: at like two o'clock in the morning, two thirty in 772 00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 2: the morning. That's all I remember. There was no money, 773 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 2: you know, I don't know, no money. 774 00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: We just did it. And what did you use for equipment? Then? 775 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 2: Well, I had my little epaphone app and then this 776 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 2: guy down the street was he worked at the steel mills, 777 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 2: and it was kind of cool. He had a band too, 778 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,480 Speaker 2: and the guitar player in that band his name was 779 00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: philm Megalarino, and he had this quiver when you know 780 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,440 Speaker 2: the vibrato, we called it a quiver, and he played 781 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 2: this red guild starfire. I remember really well, and I remember, 782 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,719 Speaker 2: you know, sitting there that's all around, that eleven twelve 783 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,520 Speaker 2: year old thing, and I'm watching him. I'm going, man, 784 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 2: he got a great quiver. I gotta get that thing right. 785 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,880 Speaker 2: But this guy that's where they rehearsed at his house 786 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 2: worked in the steel mills, and his uncle worked at 787 00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,279 Speaker 2: his shipping location the dock, and Marshall amplifiers were coming 788 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,400 Speaker 2: through there. He was able to get him really cheap, 789 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,640 Speaker 2: really cheap. So I said, Papa, I'll work with you. 790 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,759 Speaker 2: I'll do whatever it is I have to do. These 791 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 2: Marshall apps are like really great, and you know, I 792 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,399 Speaker 2: think they're only like, I know, three hundred, three hundred dollars. 793 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:03,319 Speaker 2: That's that's a lot of money. I said, I know, 794 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 2: but I'll pay a bag pop. So I got a 795 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,840 Speaker 2: Marshall Marshall amp so I had there, I go, I 796 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 2: had this, I had a stack when I was like 797 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 2: thirteen or something or fight, I don't know, fourteen, something 798 00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 2: like that. 799 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: Okay, let's jump forward. M Rick says, you've got the gig. 800 00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 1: What did that look like? Did you go back to 801 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: Ohio and wait for the call to go on the 802 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: road or stay in New York? 803 00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I went. I went back to Ohio. I went 804 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,040 Speaker 2: back to Ohio, he says, get your you know, things 805 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: in order, affairs in order. So I got back there 806 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 2: and I just I thought it was kind of funny 807 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 2: because all the girls I thought were real cute, they 808 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 2: didn't have time to talk to me. We're all of 809 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 2: a sudden ready to talk to me now, which I 810 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 2: thought that was. That was kind of cool, you know, yeah, yeah, 811 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 2: you know, cause man, they weren't paying attention to me. 812 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 2: I was that weird, weird kid in school, you know that, 813 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 2: you know, no loaner guy, nobody would talk to you know, 814 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 2: it's kind of weird, you know. I didn't feel like 815 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,680 Speaker 2: I really connected with most people there, and there I 816 00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 2: am walking around. But yeah, then I got my things 817 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,439 Speaker 2: together and I had one guitar and SG gipson SG. 818 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 2: I went up and then I Rick says, Okay, here's 819 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,440 Speaker 2: all the songs we're gonna do. But you need another guitar. 820 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,640 Speaker 2: You can't be playing that. I need you. You need 821 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: to play BC Rich. That's what I play. He goes, 822 00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 2: but you can have anything you want, but not what 823 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 2: I have. Then he hooked me up with BC Rich 824 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 2: and that's how I started playing the BC Rich Eagles 825 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 2: through that. Now that the peculiar thing, you know, because 826 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,719 Speaker 2: life is this is a comedy, right, it really is, 827 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 2: you meaning me? You join Rick Darringer, Okay, and you 828 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 2: end up recording a record with Rick and it's called 829 00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:41,279 Speaker 2: Guitars and Women. Now, then my life goes forward, you know. 830 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,280 Speaker 2: But a record Guitars and Women is kind of ironic 831 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 2: in a way, right. So, and the other part was 832 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 2: I didn't play much guitar and I played most mostly piano. 833 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 2: If you if you want to hear some of the 834 00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 2: stuff I did. There's a song called Everything, another song 835 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,960 Speaker 2: called Hopeless Romantic. Now. I was playing a lot of 836 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 2: piano back then, a lot of guitar too, But I 837 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 2: respected Rick. He was such a great player. If he 838 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,120 Speaker 2: didn't want me to play guitar on it's okay, I'll 839 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 2: play piano, but i'll play on the record. 840 00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: Okay, you go back to Ohio to get your affairs together. 841 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: Then do you go to New York to rehearse? Where 842 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:18,959 Speaker 1: do you live? When do you go on the road? 843 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 2: I go to live at my favorite place, the hotel 844 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 2: I was in when I got the call, the Wellington 845 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,720 Speaker 2: Hotel and what is it fifty eighth or fifty seventh 846 00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 2: and seventh, And that was my home. And there was 847 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 2: a guy named Pops there by the way. I am 848 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 2: writing a book. I've been writing one for about ten years. 849 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 2: Hopefully I get it finished at one point there. But 850 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,719 Speaker 2: Pops was great. Pops would go and he'd get me 851 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:43,640 Speaker 2: some beer and pizza if I wanted, and he told 852 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 2: me stories of all the old actors and actresses that 853 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 2: came through the place. He was a phenomenal, phenomenal guy, 854 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 2: was a great guy. And I remember I always wanted 855 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 2: a room by the e and the Wellington, you know, 856 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,319 Speaker 2: and it just with the neon light. It was just 857 00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:00,200 Speaker 2: super super cool. So I lived there and and we 858 00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,480 Speaker 2: just rehearsed for a little while and then off off 859 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 2: in a row we went. And the way we went. 860 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:08,800 Speaker 1: Okay, any anxiety, any imposter syndrome? 861 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the first show. When I did the first show, 862 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,440 Speaker 2: I got back after and Rick goes, what did you do? Go? 863 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:21,560 Speaker 2: I go, Rick, I'm really sorry. I was so nervous. Right, 864 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,279 Speaker 2: I went from playing two hundred and fifty people to 865 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,480 Speaker 2: whatever five thousand I mean then went Eventually we did 866 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,040 Speaker 2: stadiums and did everything. And I said, I'm really sorry. 867 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 2: I was just so nervous. I said, I'll tell you what. 868 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:35,760 Speaker 2: I'll make you a deal. It will never happen again, 869 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 2: never ever happen again. And I told myself and I practiced. 870 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 2: I focused, I got strong, got the eaching book out, 871 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:47,160 Speaker 2: got it together. But that was I remember his face. 872 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,720 Speaker 2: I picked you because I felt you were the best one, 873 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,000 Speaker 2: and I was like, oh boy, I really screwed this up. 874 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 2: So never did again. 875 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,120 Speaker 1: Okay, you're a young man on the road. Are you 876 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:03,040 Speaker 1: partaking in the fruits of the road. 877 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:04,960 Speaker 2: What are you talking about, Bob? 878 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:07,120 Speaker 1: Those fruits? 879 00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 2: What is that hanging fruits you're talking about? Well, back 880 00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:16,920 Speaker 2: back to the thing where nobody paid attention. There was 881 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,440 Speaker 2: a lot of attention you paid at that time. But 882 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 2: I but I was really I was really focused. I 883 00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:28,760 Speaker 2: was focused on making a career and really really making 884 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 2: sure I do this right, And I didn't. I didn't 885 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 2: partake into drugs, you know, I didn't do any of that. 886 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 2: You know. I drinking some stuff, but but nothing, nothing 887 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,439 Speaker 2: excessive at all. I practiced a lot, played a lot. 888 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 2: But yeah, it was all over the place. 889 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: So how long did it last with Rick? 890 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,000 Speaker 2: I think it was about a year and a half. 891 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:56,160 Speaker 2: I think, yeah, we got done and uh we were 892 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:59,280 Speaker 2: doing the record guitars and women, and there was eventually 893 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,440 Speaker 2: there'll be tense songs, right, So I played on maybe 894 00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 2: I think eight of them, I'm not sure eight and 895 00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,439 Speaker 2: then there was two more to go, and and Rick says, 896 00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 2: you know, I don't really need you on the last two. 897 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,680 Speaker 2: And you know I was. I was kind of depressed 898 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 2: a little. I said, you know, I could still do 899 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:15,920 Speaker 2: any I can still do something. I could play some 900 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,720 Speaker 2: rhythm guitar if you want. I mean, I'll eve an engineer. 901 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 2: If you want anything you want me to do, I'll 902 00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,040 Speaker 2: do for you. And he says, no, I don't. I 903 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:25,760 Speaker 2: don't think so. And as a manager, you had two managers. 904 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 2: One guy was named Teddy slatis. Well, Teddy Slatist said 905 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:32,560 Speaker 2: to me, he goes, how about a free trip feet 906 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 2: a free ticket back to Cleveland. I went, mmm, mmm, interesting, 907 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:42,440 Speaker 2: a free ticket. He was always a smart ass, always 908 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 2: a wise ass. Right, So I'm at the place. Here's 909 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 2: back to the eaching. I'm at this. We recorded in Woodstock, 910 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:54,320 Speaker 2: by the way, which was good fun doing that, and 911 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,759 Speaker 2: Kenny here and said, and myself and the crew were 912 00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,759 Speaker 2: all living in one part, and Rick and the rest 913 00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,840 Speaker 2: and mind and the drummer. We're in another part. And 914 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:04,840 Speaker 2: they have they had the house, and we had this 915 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,480 Speaker 2: little avery there. It was all totally cool. Anyway, So 916 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:12,279 Speaker 2: here's where the e ching comes back in. So you know, 917 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,640 Speaker 2: he says, well, Teddy says, okay, your free tickets ready, 918 00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 2: you know, leave tomorrow. Okay, I'll leave tomorrow. Well, thank you. 919 00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 2: So there I have I drink tea. I don't try coffee. 920 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 2: I drink green tea, and a lot of it. So 921 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:26,839 Speaker 2: I'm sitting there a green tea and I'm thinking, oh geez, 922 00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 2: what am I going to do next. I'm reading my 923 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,120 Speaker 2: eaching book this thing, getting ready to go in the 924 00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:35,319 Speaker 2: car to go from Woodstock to LaGuardia, which you know 925 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 2: is one of the worst airports in the world, was 926 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,120 Speaker 2: even bad back then. I get in the car and 927 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,920 Speaker 2: I got my suitcase in there. I'm ready to go in, 928 00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,799 Speaker 2: ready to close the door. The guy in the in 929 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:45,959 Speaker 2: the studio the kitchen says, you know, somebody's on the phone. 930 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,520 Speaker 2: They need to talk to you. It's really important. I go, yeah, 931 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,319 Speaker 2: and that's really too important right now, I'm going back 932 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,879 Speaker 2: to Cleveland. Is any fun? He goes, No, I think 933 00:46:53,880 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 2: you really need to take this call. Some guy from 934 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:57,239 Speaker 2: a record company, he said, needs to talk to you. 935 00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:59,759 Speaker 2: And I says, oh, come on, he goes, He goes, 936 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,920 Speaker 2: I think it's real. I said, all right, So I 937 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,359 Speaker 2: went inside and picked up the phone. The guy's talking. 938 00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,280 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, okay, it was just like a little Louis 939 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,000 Speaker 2: busting my balls over there in Cleveland, giving me, you know, 940 00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,839 Speaker 2: trying to be a jerk or whatever. And guy says, go, no, no, 941 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,800 Speaker 2: this is I'm serious. I want you to meet this 942 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,480 Speaker 2: singer who wants to put a band together and doesn't 943 00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:21,960 Speaker 2: have a band and really looking for that partner. And 944 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:23,960 Speaker 2: I said, well, all right, it's interesting. I had some 945 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 2: other gigs, some other bands that were interested. I had 946 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 2: two other bands that were in the play that I 947 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,840 Speaker 2: could to join or work with and stuff. So I 948 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 2: wasn't like I had no gig, but I wanted to 949 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,239 Speaker 2: be with Rick. I wanted to finish a record. So 950 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 2: I'm talking to guy goes. He goes, listen, I Mike Chapman, 951 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,840 Speaker 2: who produced. If I wasn't so romantic, i'd shoot you 952 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,080 Speaker 2: by Rick Darringer the record before the one you did 953 00:47:49,120 --> 00:47:53,600 Speaker 2: just now. Saw you on the road with Rick and 954 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 2: thought you would be a great person to be with 955 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:01,200 Speaker 2: this other person that I want you to meet, because 956 00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,560 Speaker 2: you you know song structure, you write songs, you multi 957 00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:07,319 Speaker 2: versed in other instruments. You're You're not a show like 958 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 2: a showbo guy. You know you want to play song. 959 00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 2: That's because I really want That's all I wanted to do. 960 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:16,120 Speaker 2: I was not that type of player that just can virtuoso. 961 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,080 Speaker 2: I was never that guy. I just want to write 962 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,800 Speaker 2: songs and play play instruments. So I'm talking. He goes, Okay, 963 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,120 Speaker 2: all you got to do is meet this person in sir, 964 00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,440 Speaker 2: Can you do it today? I says yeah. Can I 965 00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:30,400 Speaker 2: get a free ticket to Cleveland? I had one, but 966 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 2: it could be no good anymore. Can I get a 967 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,640 Speaker 2: free ticket? He goes, no problem. I says, okay, what 968 00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:38,000 Speaker 2: about if something goes good and I stay. He goes, 969 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,239 Speaker 2: I'll take care of you. I said, okay, fair enough. 970 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,000 Speaker 2: Now I had a girlfriend at the time too, so 971 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,000 Speaker 2: this this she was living in Connecticut, but whatever, that 972 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,719 Speaker 2: wasn't going so good. So anyway, I go down. But 973 00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:53,839 Speaker 2: before I go down, I mentioned I says, well, who's 974 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 2: this guy? Maybe I heard of him. He says, no, 975 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 2: it's not a guy. It's a girl. And I went 976 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,799 Speaker 2: a girl. He says, yeah, go is she good looking? 977 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,680 Speaker 2: I mean, is my Sicilian thinking? Is she good look? 978 00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 2: And he goes, yeah she is, but she's married. I go, oh, okay, 979 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,440 Speaker 2: well fair enough, and I was just playing way they 980 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,800 Speaker 2: having fun with you? You know? So what I did is 981 00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 2: I drove down in the in the sedan to s 982 00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:21,440 Speaker 2: I R got in there and met this person it's Patricia, 983 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 2: and sat down at the piano, started playing some stuff 984 00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:28,520 Speaker 2: and said what are you thinking about? What is it 985 00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:31,000 Speaker 2: you want to do? And then explained it all, did 986 00:49:31,040 --> 00:49:35,239 Speaker 2: it all, and picked up a guitar and made some 987 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:39,239 Speaker 2: racket and we talked about stuff and it became a partnership. 988 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,879 Speaker 2: And in fact, the guy's name is Jeff Aldrich who 989 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 2: called me from the record company who's a tremendous guy. 990 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,080 Speaker 2: A great day and our guy really nice guy. So 991 00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 2: he picks up Patricia and I'm sitting at a couch. 992 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 2: He picks up Patricia. He goes like, does it drops 993 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:56,920 Speaker 2: her in my laby? And she and he says, here's 994 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 2: your guy to her, here's your guy. And I went like, 995 00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,200 Speaker 2: that's a little awkward here. You know, that's a little awkwards. 996 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:07,120 Speaker 2: First day, what's calling out here? So that's how that's 997 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:08,400 Speaker 2: how that kind of began. 998 00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,239 Speaker 1: Okay, you're in Woodstock, you have the free ticket back 999 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:25,080 Speaker 1: to Cleveland. Forget the Derringer record and the other two tracks. 1000 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,000 Speaker 1: Was this going back to Cleveland or you talked about 1001 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,919 Speaker 1: some other opportunities. Was this the end of the road 1002 00:50:32,000 --> 00:50:35,319 Speaker 1: for you or just an interlude before you got the 1003 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,680 Speaker 1: call to work with pat Oh? This was it was 1004 00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:41,160 Speaker 1: like a fifty to fifty. I had some opportunities. They 1005 00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,280 Speaker 1: weren't They weren't great. 1006 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 2: There were a couple of bands I thought they're okay 1007 00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:48,239 Speaker 2: because it was only meant to be in the meantime, 1008 00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,840 Speaker 2: you know what I was tall Rick's I want you 1009 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 2: to come back. I want you to come back. Well, 1010 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:57,440 Speaker 2: be careful of what you let go. You know, people 1011 00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 2: have good memories. I mean, I mean, I will. I 1012 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:01,840 Speaker 2: don't want to be a prick about anything. And I 1013 00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,520 Speaker 2: wasn't because I love Rick, He's a great guy. But 1014 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,000 Speaker 2: I didn't like that way that was handle. I thought 1015 00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:09,879 Speaker 2: it was. It wasn't cool. I mean, if they would 1016 00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:14,879 Speaker 2: have said, uh, you know, you know, we look forward 1017 00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 2: to you coming back. Rick wants to finish the record. Okay, good, 1018 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 2: thank you very much. Maybe I'll get a gig to 1019 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,880 Speaker 2: me time. Well I could have, it's not a problem, 1020 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:23,680 Speaker 2: but it wouldn't be a great gig. I'll and be 1021 00:51:23,800 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 2: where I was. What reck right, So so that's that's 1022 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 2: kind of what happened. So it was like a fifty 1023 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,840 Speaker 2: to fifty go back to Cleveland, you know, kick around 1024 00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,239 Speaker 2: there for a while, make the foot, few calls, see 1025 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 2: what's up. But I got the call before I left, right. 1026 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,480 Speaker 1: So did Rick ever call you to come back? 1027 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:43,360 Speaker 2: Yes? 1028 00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:44,840 Speaker 1: And what did you tell him? 1029 00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,399 Speaker 2: I said, I'm sorry, I can't. I said I can't. 1030 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,799 Speaker 2: I I'm an integral part of it. Another situation. And 1031 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:56,520 Speaker 2: we're partners. I partnered up with somebody. You may not 1032 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 2: know it, but we were partners. And I remember playing 1033 00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,360 Speaker 2: the record the first record in a heated night for 1034 00:52:02,520 --> 00:52:05,920 Speaker 2: Johnny Winter, and I remember even talking to him and 1035 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,879 Speaker 2: he said, oh man, yeah you got, this is your thing? 1036 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: You got? 1037 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,640 Speaker 2: I said, okay, thanks, Johnny. I have a great picture 1038 00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:16,000 Speaker 2: you usould see one time. It's because Rick Deringer's wife 1039 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 2: was named Liz, and she was more than one Liz. 1040 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:20,360 Speaker 2: She was Liz Liz, I called her. But I was 1041 00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,080 Speaker 2: like her boy toy. She would take me around because 1042 00:52:23,120 --> 00:52:25,799 Speaker 2: I was twenty just turned twenty two, and she would 1043 00:52:25,840 --> 00:52:28,120 Speaker 2: take me around to all these places like Studio fifty 1044 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,680 Speaker 2: four and all these different clubs, Maxes and all these things, 1045 00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:33,759 Speaker 2: and she would parade me around. And she was a 1046 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,080 Speaker 2: huge social lighte and she thought it was funny because 1047 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:39,280 Speaker 2: I had this rope belt and a pair of jeans 1048 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:42,040 Speaker 2: and white T shirt. Everybody else was dressed up and 1049 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 2: there I am walking around like a goofball you go 1050 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,200 Speaker 2: out of Cleveland like Jethrow or something. I felt like him, 1051 00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,640 Speaker 2: you know. And so I was going around and doing 1052 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:50,320 Speaker 2: all that stuff. 1053 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,600 Speaker 1: Okay, so old Rich introduces you to Pat. You work 1054 00:52:55,640 --> 00:52:56,880 Speaker 1: out what's the next step. 1055 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:01,400 Speaker 2: Next step is well, next step, here's your guy boom 1056 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,479 Speaker 2: in my lap, And I says Okay, now what goes? Well, 1057 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,719 Speaker 2: go back to Cleveland. But then you only got two 1058 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 2: days come back because you guys got to put a 1059 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,080 Speaker 2: band together, You got to get going, and you need 1060 00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,719 Speaker 2: to go through all kinds of stuff. So I says, 1061 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:16,200 Speaker 2: They says, where you want to stay? Do you want 1062 00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:21,640 Speaker 2: to stay at the may Mayflower, the Mayflower Hotel? I says, no, 1063 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:23,960 Speaker 2: I'm want to stay at Wellington. They say the Wellington. 1064 00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,320 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, I like the Wellington. Are you sure? 1065 00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,840 Speaker 2: I go? Yeah, I want to stay at the Wellington. 1066 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,160 Speaker 2: It was my home away from home. I liked it. 1067 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:34,600 Speaker 2: They would add a good vibe to it. So I left, 1068 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:36,600 Speaker 2: go back to Cleveland. Like I said, That's when all 1069 00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,160 Speaker 2: the girls that didn't have time for me pay attention 1070 00:53:40,239 --> 00:53:41,799 Speaker 2: all of a sudden, where you know, they kind of 1071 00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,000 Speaker 2: knew where I was. So I stayed there for just 1072 00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 2: a couple week maybe, and then I came up and 1073 00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:47,120 Speaker 2: started to work. 1074 00:53:48,600 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 1: Okay, how long from that initial meeting before you go 1075 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:54,080 Speaker 1: in the studio. 1076 00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:58,080 Speaker 2: Well, that would be probably May of nineteen seventy nine. 1077 00:53:58,080 --> 00:53:59,759 Speaker 2: We didn't go in the studio until I think it 1078 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 2: was August, July or August maybe the beginning of May 1079 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 2: is when we started Mart April, i'd have to look 1080 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:08,120 Speaker 2: at it. 1081 00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:11,640 Speaker 1: That's pretty soon. So what happened in those intervening months? 1082 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,319 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Well, first of all, we had to put 1083 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:19,800 Speaker 2: a band together, so I had to audition players, people, 1084 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,480 Speaker 2: and then at the whole time Patricia and I were 1085 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:28,200 Speaker 2: working together, I told her the first time we talked 1086 00:54:28,239 --> 00:54:30,640 Speaker 2: and played, I says, you know, you got a really 1087 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:33,719 Speaker 2: beautiful voice. Beautiful voice. I'd hate to be the guy 1088 00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,920 Speaker 2: to wreck that voice. I says, you understand that the 1089 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:40,239 Speaker 2: way you're going to sing next is not what you've 1090 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:42,880 Speaker 2: ever done before, because we're going to find a breaking 1091 00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,920 Speaker 2: point in your voice where that high stuff is not 1092 00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:47,879 Speaker 2: going to be falsetto. It's going to be real. It's 1093 00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:50,440 Speaker 2: going to be your real voice. You ain't gonna go 1094 00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:53,879 Speaker 2: to falsetto. What is that? What's that going to happen? 1095 00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:55,560 Speaker 2: I go, I'll show you. We're going to raise these 1096 00:54:55,640 --> 00:54:57,640 Speaker 2: keys and these courses you're going to have to really 1097 00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,279 Speaker 2: belt out. They're going to have to get in that 1098 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:03,279 Speaker 2: range to support what's going to be underneath it. Right, 1099 00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:07,000 Speaker 2: So her and I worked a lot on that. So 1100 00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:12,000 Speaker 2: we had because to understand, Patricia, is that not that 1101 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,040 Speaker 2: there's anything wrong with being the rock chick, but that's 1102 00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:19,319 Speaker 2: not what she was. She was a highly educated, intelligent 1103 00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:22,280 Speaker 2: person that came from a middle class family in Long Island, 1104 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:26,400 Speaker 2: and she went to school. She she was you know, 1105 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,440 Speaker 2: she studied singing, She she did all the oppera. She 1106 00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,879 Speaker 2: just she she knew all those things. She wasn't kicking 1107 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,120 Speaker 2: around clubs for a couple of years. That wasn't her. 1108 00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:39,760 Speaker 2: But what she wanted to get into was a different world. 1109 00:55:40,040 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 2: And I was that. I was representing that world that 1110 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,120 Speaker 2: I knew the most. So we worked hard on that. 1111 00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,360 Speaker 2: And then uh, and then I found I found different musicians. 1112 00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:53,400 Speaker 2: Got another guitar player because they had a good looking haircut. 1113 00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:55,719 Speaker 2: He looked good. I don't care about it, did anything else. 1114 00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,279 Speaker 2: He looked good, and I thought that was great. The 1115 00:55:57,280 --> 00:55:59,840 Speaker 2: bass player would play with her in a lounge band prior. 1116 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,359 Speaker 2: And then I brought my drummer from Darrow that worked 1117 00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:08,600 Speaker 2: with Reck and that was Byron Grobacker. I brought him 1118 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:09,960 Speaker 2: in for the two. Oh no, I didn't bring him 1119 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:11,680 Speaker 2: in yet. I'm sorry, sorry saying no, no, no. This was 1120 00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,080 Speaker 2: for the record. Then I got a drummer and then 1121 00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:17,400 Speaker 2: we rehearsed in New York and then we came to 1122 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 2: California to make the record. 1123 00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: Okay, a lot of times when people are relatively green, 1124 00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:25,279 Speaker 1: they don't really want the band. They want to use 1125 00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,879 Speaker 1: studio musicians, right, So whose idea was it to make 1126 00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: it a band? 1127 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,719 Speaker 2: Well, because in the beginning, what Patricius tried to do 1128 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,319 Speaker 2: was work with studio musicians and a producer to do 1129 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,520 Speaker 2: what she wanted to do. But nobody was listening. They 1130 00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:46,480 Speaker 2: had her wanting to sound like again, there's nothing wrong 1131 00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,640 Speaker 2: with this, having her sound like Linda Ronstad on this song, 1132 00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,120 Speaker 2: having sound like this on this song, but not totally 1133 00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,640 Speaker 2: missing a point. And even after she did these demos 1134 00:56:56,640 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 2: of five songs or whatever she did with this studio musician, 1135 00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 2: she record company guy says, listen, don't don't get your 1136 00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:04,680 Speaker 2: hope up. You know this, you know, and then they 1137 00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,439 Speaker 2: shoved it. They says, no, this isn't this isn't where 1138 00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,000 Speaker 2: it needs to be. That's where Mike Chapman came in. 1139 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 2: So Mike who referred me because he thought and he 1140 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 2: was supposed to produce only four songs of the record 1141 00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:19,360 Speaker 2: the first record, So Mike's idea was because he was 1142 00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:22,960 Speaker 2: busy doing Commander Chapman. He wasn't Commander Chapman yet, it 1143 00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:25,960 Speaker 2: came later, but he was, you know, the Knack and everybody. 1144 00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:28,520 Speaker 2: So he was pretty hot. So he didn't have the 1145 00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:31,960 Speaker 2: time for us, you know. And the best thing that 1146 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:35,440 Speaker 2: he did was have his engineer, Pete Coleman work and 1147 00:57:35,520 --> 00:57:38,560 Speaker 2: him and I together were a great team. We were 1148 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:42,439 Speaker 2: we had the greatest time, and we aligned beautiful. Right. 1149 00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:47,600 Speaker 2: So so yeah, so Mike was on board, and we 1150 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,600 Speaker 2: were just going to come to LA and make the record. 1151 00:57:50,880 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: Okay, you come to LA, do you know, as Mike 1152 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:58,280 Speaker 1: told you what songs you want to record, you get 1153 00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,880 Speaker 1: there and he goes hear the songs. 1154 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, he told us the songs. He goes four songs, 1155 00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 2: I think a couple of them were he wrote, were 1156 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,320 Speaker 2: probably from Exile or one of the other bands he 1157 00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:17,520 Speaker 2: worked with. But and then subsequently what happened was the 1158 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:20,760 Speaker 2: record company would release a couple of those songs that failed. 1159 00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:25,120 Speaker 2: So and meanwhile, all the other tracks that Pete and 1160 00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,560 Speaker 2: I did had substance, you know, they were Heartbreaker, we 1161 00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,240 Speaker 2: Lived for Love. There were all these other songs like Clone, 1162 00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:37,840 Speaker 2: sleeps Alone, these these other things. So right then Mike 1163 00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,760 Speaker 2: was getting a little angry because the record companies released 1164 00:58:41,840 --> 00:58:43,080 Speaker 2: songs and his aren't working. 1165 00:58:43,920 --> 00:58:44,480 Speaker 1: And then. 1166 00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,120 Speaker 2: And of course we Lived for Love became the second 1167 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,240 Speaker 2: signal a single, the one that I wrote, and Heartbreaker 1168 00:58:51,360 --> 00:58:53,640 Speaker 2: was first. But even that they it didn't catch on 1169 00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:55,360 Speaker 2: right away because they said there was too much guitar 1170 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 2: on it. But that was where disco. We were right 1171 00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 2: on that board. Are we gonna redefine rock music at 1172 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,479 Speaker 2: that point and break away from disco? And that's where 1173 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,720 Speaker 2: the guitar focus of Heartbreaking movement forward. So does that 1174 00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:11,480 Speaker 2: answer your question? 1175 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, you know it's a long time ago. Do 1176 00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 1: you remember which four songs were Chapman, Yes, okay, which one? 1177 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,360 Speaker 2: It was? In the heat of the night right if 1178 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:24,680 Speaker 2: you think you know how to love me? 1179 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:25,560 Speaker 1: Right? 1180 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:36,120 Speaker 2: He brought in I Need a Lover from Johnny Mellicamp Cougar. Oh, 1181 00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,600 Speaker 2: and then what was the other one? I'm trying to 1182 00:59:39,600 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 2: think of it, ken me what or what it was, but. 1183 00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,320 Speaker 1: It looks like I know, you don't the sweet cover. 1184 00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:47,600 Speaker 2: Oh, there you go, No you don't, there you go. 1185 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:48,240 Speaker 2: That's it. 1186 00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So in terms of recording, you and Peter 1187 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: Coleman did Heartbreaker and the rest of the you know, 1188 00:59:57,840 --> 00:59:59,120 Speaker 1: we live for Love, et cetera. 1189 00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:01,800 Speaker 2: Yep, Yeah, Pete and I did. It was great. We 1190 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,040 Speaker 2: had We had the best time. You know. It was 1191 01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:10,080 Speaker 2: great because I loved engineering, and even when I did 1192 01:00:10,160 --> 01:00:13,680 Speaker 2: the Derringer record with Todd Rudgren producing the guitars at 1193 01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:16,840 Speaker 2: women thing, I was always around, you know, the studio. 1194 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,680 Speaker 2: Even prior to joining Rick, I was in the studio 1195 01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:22,440 Speaker 2: in Cleveland too, in other bands. We were doing original 1196 01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,040 Speaker 2: music and things like that. So I really loved the 1197 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,680 Speaker 2: engineering part. And it goes back to Heartbreak, Hotel here 1198 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,360 Speaker 2: in those tones and all that other stuff going on. Right. 1199 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,520 Speaker 2: But yeah, so Pete and I were great. I mean 1200 01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,000 Speaker 2: we take turns in different machines of twenty four track 1201 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,640 Speaker 2: or the two inch or the half inch and just 1202 01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:43,960 Speaker 2: everything and everything. It was just beautiful. 1203 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,320 Speaker 1: Okay, how did you feel at the time, because really 1204 01:00:48,360 --> 01:00:51,040 Speaker 1: the breakthrough was the cover of I Need a Lover 1205 01:00:51,120 --> 01:00:54,080 Speaker 1: and at that point he was still Johnny Couger. It 1206 01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:56,040 Speaker 1: was one of those early albums. It had no traction. 1207 01:00:56,520 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: Did you want to do that? Did you care? Did 1208 01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,920 Speaker 1: you think it was going to be good? I? 1209 01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:09,040 Speaker 2: Well, I I mean I I I understand the the 1210 01:01:09,120 --> 01:01:11,760 Speaker 2: campiness of a girl singing I need a lover because 1211 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,320 Speaker 2: only guys were singing kind of stuff, and then for 1212 01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:16,880 Speaker 2: a girl to do it. I got it. I I 1213 01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,920 Speaker 2: thought it. I thought it was pushing, just like a 1214 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:22,560 Speaker 2: couple of records that follow certain songs were pushing towards 1215 01:01:22,560 --> 01:01:26,240 Speaker 2: the the uh, this is an important thing to tell 1216 01:01:26,280 --> 01:01:29,000 Speaker 2: you too. It was pushing more towards the focus of 1217 01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 2: you know, we can sell this by making it the 1218 01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,400 Speaker 2: girl talk about this, and we can sell it this way. 1219 01:01:34,440 --> 01:01:38,520 Speaker 2: We can do this right. So the part for me 1220 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:40,840 Speaker 2: is my sister kind of cursed me when I was younger. 1221 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 2: She said I'd be surrounded by women my whole life, 1222 01:01:44,040 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 2: and she was right right. But I never looked at 1223 01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:51,560 Speaker 2: Patricia as as the female chick singer. Never. I looked 1224 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,880 Speaker 2: at her as a bandmatee and a partner. Right. So 1225 01:01:54,880 --> 01:01:57,760 Speaker 2: so when it was it all felt like this, the 1226 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,760 Speaker 2: the like the like a Linda ron st Er, just 1227 01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:03,880 Speaker 2: the female the focus of this. Never I never looked 1228 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,400 Speaker 2: at that that way. And I I must say I did. 1229 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:12,520 Speaker 2: I did do something like that with the True Love record. 1230 01:02:12,560 --> 01:02:14,560 Speaker 2: I did cost to be the boss. I you know, 1231 01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:18,080 Speaker 2: I had you know her do that, which would be 1232 01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:23,200 Speaker 2: a reversal of the sex reversal right instead of bb kings. 1233 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:25,120 Speaker 2: You know, it's a girl singing I'm the cost to 1234 01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:28,800 Speaker 2: be the boss, right, So I was I was just 1235 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,160 Speaker 2: like that. I suppose I was like Mike in that point. 1236 01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:36,000 Speaker 2: So I can't you know, we all make we all 1237 01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,880 Speaker 2: do stupid and good stuff. Okay, okay, tell me get 1238 01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,880 Speaker 2: out of that. The first album I Love, We Will, 1239 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:42,880 Speaker 2: We Live for Love? 1240 01:02:43,280 --> 01:02:45,160 Speaker 1: You wrote it? Tell me how you wrote it? 1241 01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,240 Speaker 2: I wrote it. I was with my girlfriend at the 1242 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 2: time and we were living in Los Angeles and we 1243 01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,760 Speaker 2: needed another song for the record, two songs, and I went, okay, 1244 01:02:56,840 --> 01:02:59,880 Speaker 2: let me, let me scratch something together. And I started 1245 01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 2: writing it there and I was just coming together, and 1246 01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,760 Speaker 2: I'm thinking, how do you write a story about something 1247 01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,840 Speaker 2: that could apply for what the project you're doing? Like, 1248 01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:15,320 Speaker 2: how do you how do you make this song we 1249 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:18,120 Speaker 2: Live for Love? Why would you do a song called 1250 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:18,760 Speaker 2: we Live for Love? 1251 01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:19,400 Speaker 1: Well? 1252 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,160 Speaker 2: So I had a good first line, and then I 1253 01:03:22,320 --> 01:03:26,480 Speaker 2: just kept calling on it, right, and and then you know, 1254 01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:29,600 Speaker 2: we have a running joke that Pittrish always says it 1255 01:03:29,640 --> 01:03:32,440 Speaker 2: wasn't written about her, and it was written about somebody else. 1256 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,200 Speaker 2: And I always say no, I wrote it about you, 1257 01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,920 Speaker 2: So I did it as a reversal. So I got 1258 01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:40,560 Speaker 2: off to leave that up in the air. 1259 01:03:40,760 --> 01:03:47,400 Speaker 1: Okay. So at the time, you know, Chrysalish has some 1260 01:03:47,480 --> 01:03:53,040 Speaker 1: American success with Blondie, but it's not the equivalent to 1261 01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:58,200 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers or Columbia. And it looks like the record 1262 01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:02,440 Speaker 1: has a slow percolation. And then you start to hear 1263 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,840 Speaker 1: the Melancamp cover and you start to hear it on 1264 01:04:05,960 --> 01:04:09,720 Speaker 1: all these stations in LA. What was the experience on 1265 01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:11,120 Speaker 1: your side of the fence. 1266 01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:14,480 Speaker 2: Well, I didn't really hear I Need a Lover. Mostly 1267 01:04:14,760 --> 01:04:17,320 Speaker 2: I heard when Heartbreaker hit it. That's the first time 1268 01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 2: I heard a record song from that record come out. 1269 01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,360 Speaker 2: And when I heard that, I just went ooh, now 1270 01:04:23,360 --> 01:04:25,560 Speaker 2: that's moving. Some are that sounds really in a compression 1271 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:26,680 Speaker 2: all working and stuff? You know. 1272 01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:29,720 Speaker 1: Well, I guess what I'm saying is the record is finished? 1273 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,440 Speaker 1: How long until it comes out? And what do you do? 1274 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:35,800 Speaker 1: Do you go on the road and at what point 1275 01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:38,680 Speaker 1: do you say this is work and we have something here. 1276 01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:42,360 Speaker 2: Well, and what happened as they were releasing those songs. 1277 01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:44,760 Speaker 2: I think they even tried. If you think you know 1278 01:04:44,800 --> 01:04:46,680 Speaker 2: how to love me, you know, put it out there 1279 01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,720 Speaker 2: lit no radio traction, and they did I need a 1280 01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,160 Speaker 2: lover too, and that didn't really get traction in the beginning. 1281 01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:54,400 Speaker 2: It was just kind of floating around. It was heartbreaking 1282 01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:57,720 Speaker 2: that took it so but to answer the question, we 1283 01:04:57,760 --> 01:04:59,840 Speaker 2: went and I can't remember when our first gig was. 1284 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,680 Speaker 2: We got there and I was using these new amps. 1285 01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:05,600 Speaker 2: I got these little Marshall combos and they all blew up. 1286 01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 2: I think we maybe made it through the set. I 1287 01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:10,400 Speaker 2: can't remember if we made it all through or not, 1288 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:13,000 Speaker 2: but I know that there was not a lot of 1289 01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:18,200 Speaker 2: people there. I don't know, maybe thirty forty fifty, I 1290 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:21,280 Speaker 2: can't remember, but I do know that the next night 1291 01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 2: there was a few more and next night and it 1292 01:05:23,400 --> 01:05:27,760 Speaker 2: happened really quick, really really quick. It just seemed to 1293 01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:32,640 Speaker 2: kind of escalate really fast, and we got it to 1294 01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:34,600 Speaker 2: the point where we couldn't leave the stage and we'd 1295 01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:37,680 Speaker 2: do the set over twice because we didn't have enough songs, 1296 01:05:37,880 --> 01:05:41,640 Speaker 2: right we do, Richie Vallence, come on, let's go some 1297 01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:44,480 Speaker 2: other covers that I throw out through out there that 1298 01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:49,000 Speaker 2: people seem to like. So we yeah, just started really 1299 01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,160 Speaker 2: escalating and then we were asked to play open for 1300 01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:55,520 Speaker 2: a different couple bands of any money. We opened for 1301 01:05:55,600 --> 01:05:57,160 Speaker 2: him once in New York. I think it was at 1302 01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:01,800 Speaker 2: the Central Park thing or something. Eddie's mother came up 1303 01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:05,000 Speaker 2: and she goes, Eddie, you should be opening for them, 1304 01:06:08,120 --> 01:06:10,800 Speaker 2: and then you know, crazy, he's you know, he's like 1305 01:06:10,880 --> 01:06:14,000 Speaker 2: Rodney Danger. Yeah, thanks, I'm sure, okay, yeah, all right, 1306 01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,320 Speaker 2: so and then yeah, and then we had another guy 1307 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,280 Speaker 2: we opened for, David Werner, and he was from Pittsburgh. 1308 01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:24,000 Speaker 2: He was one of the bands too that that wanted 1309 01:06:24,040 --> 01:06:27,080 Speaker 2: me to come along early on and he said, you know, 1310 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:29,840 Speaker 2: I don't think you guys should be playing some of 1311 01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,160 Speaker 2: those songs if you're opening up for me. I says, well, 1312 01:06:32,200 --> 01:06:34,040 Speaker 2: guess what, David, We're not going to open up for 1313 01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:36,120 Speaker 2: you no more. You're gone. We're moving on. 1314 01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:43,200 Speaker 1: So between the first and second Bennett Tuck albums, how 1315 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: much did you work? 1316 01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:48,960 Speaker 2: Live? Oh? A lot, a lot. We went to Europe 1317 01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:52,160 Speaker 2: right away. Actually I almost wish we went to Europe 1318 01:06:52,160 --> 01:06:54,640 Speaker 2: first and it came Europe to America. That's always a 1319 01:06:54,680 --> 01:06:59,160 Speaker 2: really good move. Yeah, we worked a lot, like a lot, 1320 01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:03,560 Speaker 2: and we had to go right from the road into 1321 01:07:03,600 --> 01:07:05,720 Speaker 2: the next record, which was Crimes and Passion, And the 1322 01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:08,480 Speaker 2: reason we had to change the producer at that time 1323 01:07:08,600 --> 01:07:11,960 Speaker 2: was because Mike well, I think it was so pissed 1324 01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,560 Speaker 2: off that we had more success with the other songs 1325 01:07:14,600 --> 01:07:18,040 Speaker 2: and not his songs. And the story was that he 1326 01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,240 Speaker 2: didn't get along with the record company, Terry Els, and 1327 01:07:20,280 --> 01:07:22,320 Speaker 2: they had an argument in a fight or whatever. Maybe 1328 01:07:22,320 --> 01:07:23,960 Speaker 2: they did, maybe that's the truth of it. It just 1329 01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,160 Speaker 2: didn't feel to me like that's what it was. It 1330 01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:31,720 Speaker 2: felt like sour grape sort of, you know, So they 1331 01:07:31,760 --> 01:07:35,320 Speaker 2: wanted a different producer. We met with Keith also. I said, yeah, 1332 01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:37,760 Speaker 2: well this this is okay. I was really just one. 1333 01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:39,720 Speaker 2: I really want to do it Pete, him and I 1334 01:07:39,840 --> 01:07:41,960 Speaker 2: together like we did the first time, you know, that 1335 01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:43,800 Speaker 2: I'd be credited and we would do you know, do 1336 01:07:43,920 --> 01:07:49,720 Speaker 2: it like a partnership. But that didn't happen, so we went. 1337 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:53,280 Speaker 2: But it was a good idea in retrospect, because it 1338 01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:57,360 Speaker 2: was it was taking the band like a live band 1339 01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,760 Speaker 2: and going into the studio making a record. That's why 1340 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,520 Speaker 2: it's sounds different. But I missed the air of of 1341 01:08:03,520 --> 01:08:06,000 Speaker 2: of the MCA Whitney where we did the Heat of 1342 01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,480 Speaker 2: the Night, the way Pete's sounds, his tones where there's 1343 01:08:10,520 --> 01:08:14,280 Speaker 2: a lot of air in it, and also during crimes 1344 01:08:14,280 --> 01:08:17,880 Speaker 2: of passion. I always like to do record maybe the 1345 01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:21,960 Speaker 2: song or songs that have the strongest has the most 1346 01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:26,680 Speaker 2: strength behind them in something that you're gonna be able 1347 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,400 Speaker 2: to play the record company that you know, if you 1348 01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,519 Speaker 2: do two songs first, the three songs they have the 1349 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:32,400 Speaker 2: record company come in, come in and get them charged 1350 01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,920 Speaker 2: up right, and get those out of the way. And 1351 01:08:34,960 --> 01:08:38,519 Speaker 2: one of them was housed for children and and that 1352 01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:40,200 Speaker 2: was one of the I think was the first song 1353 01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,240 Speaker 2: that Patricia was going to sing for the record. And 1354 01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,000 Speaker 2: I remember Keith gave me the keys to his poor 1355 01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,120 Speaker 2: She goes, if you want to just go cruise around, 1356 01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:51,280 Speaker 2: you know, I'll just do the vocal here with Patricia, 1357 01:08:51,280 --> 01:08:52,880 Speaker 2: and when you come back, you can do over dumps, 1358 01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:54,720 Speaker 2: we can do the other stuff. I go, okay. So 1359 01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,479 Speaker 2: I took the keys and I came back Patria. Patricia 1360 01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,000 Speaker 2: was in the studio crying on the floor, and I go, Pete, 1361 01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,360 Speaker 2: I mean, Keith, where's Patricia? She goes. He says, she's 1362 01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,479 Speaker 2: in there. She's in the studio. I go, what's the matter? 1363 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:10,639 Speaker 2: He goes, Things are going so good? Oh, yet what happened, 1364 01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:12,400 Speaker 2: So I went on, I talked to her. So I 1365 01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:16,080 Speaker 2: had to go in and start rebuilding a different mix 1366 01:09:16,120 --> 01:09:18,240 Speaker 2: for her in her headphones to be able to sing, 1367 01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:22,120 Speaker 2: and and all of a sudden she started singing the 1368 01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:25,760 Speaker 2: way she was normally she normally sang. She felt more 1369 01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,120 Speaker 2: comfortable with me in there from heat to night and 1370 01:09:29,160 --> 01:09:33,000 Speaker 2: working with Pete and I never left. And that's that's 1371 01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:37,320 Speaker 2: why the producer chair kind of and the credited part 1372 01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:40,439 Speaker 2: of it began was during that. For that reason, I 1373 01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:42,400 Speaker 2: never left. Then. I was there for everything. 1374 01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,040 Speaker 1: Okay, you know, Keith is no longer with us, but 1375 01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,040 Speaker 1: he had some great success with Leetwood Mac and others. 1376 01:09:57,120 --> 01:09:59,840 Speaker 1: You worked with a lot of producers. What's your take 1377 01:09:59,880 --> 01:10:02,479 Speaker 1: on Keith. Did he add anything? Yeah? 1378 01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:06,960 Speaker 2: I thought he was great. What he added was letting, 1379 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,599 Speaker 2: letting the artists just just do it. He would record 1380 01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:13,920 Speaker 2: it to make sure it was recorded properly. He used 1381 01:10:13,920 --> 01:10:18,400 Speaker 2: this Dolby, which which not a lot of people used 1382 01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:21,840 Speaker 2: Dolby on rock records. But there was a compression part 1383 01:10:21,840 --> 01:10:23,840 Speaker 2: of it that that I kind of liked. It made 1384 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,639 Speaker 2: it kind of solid. It lost some of the top 1385 01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:27,519 Speaker 2: and air and some of the openness of it, but 1386 01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,800 Speaker 2: it had another sound to it, and I kind of 1387 01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:34,360 Speaker 2: like that. I thought Keith was was great and we 1388 01:10:34,400 --> 01:10:37,680 Speaker 2: got along really really well in the beginning, but then 1389 01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:40,719 Speaker 2: there is the temptation and then all of a sudden, 1390 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:43,479 Speaker 2: the double creeps in, and you know, there was some 1391 01:10:43,680 --> 01:10:47,800 Speaker 2: issues with drugs and things like that, and I could 1392 01:10:47,920 --> 01:10:50,599 Speaker 2: I saw a decline during that record. I saw it 1393 01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,880 Speaker 2: sort of fade out. He was having trouble personally, and 1394 01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,559 Speaker 2: and then I just felt as I really needed to 1395 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,000 Speaker 2: step in and kind of say what was going on 1396 01:11:00,280 --> 01:11:03,519 Speaker 2: because he wasn't himself. It's like I've known him in 1397 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,320 Speaker 2: the beginning. Uh, you know, cutting the tracks that we 1398 01:11:06,360 --> 01:11:08,760 Speaker 2: did so. 1399 01:11:07,920 --> 01:11:13,120 Speaker 1: Okay on that album is really pats gigantic breakthrough hit 1400 01:11:13,200 --> 01:11:15,840 Speaker 1: Me with your Best Shot. How did that come into 1401 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:16,360 Speaker 1: the mix? 1402 01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,000 Speaker 2: Uh? That song was also floating around when I was 1403 01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,920 Speaker 2: with Darrenger, and I kind of had it and and 1404 01:11:24,960 --> 01:11:29,120 Speaker 2: I I brought it in. Keith said he brought it in, 1405 01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,160 Speaker 2: and I did a demo of it in New York 1406 01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:37,720 Speaker 2: in a studio with Patricia before we before we went 1407 01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:40,680 Speaker 2: to LA to do the Crimes of Passion record, and 1408 01:11:40,720 --> 01:11:43,800 Speaker 2: I brought the demo with me and of us doing it, 1409 01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,000 Speaker 2: I says, this, this is probably a hit. You know, 1410 01:11:46,080 --> 01:11:50,559 Speaker 2: it's it's it has all those things, and a record 1411 01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:53,800 Speaker 2: company loved it. So that's that's how we did that. 1412 01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,360 Speaker 2: I mean, I brought it a demo of art, we 1413 01:11:56,439 --> 01:11:57,120 Speaker 2: did a version of it. 1414 01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:01,760 Speaker 1: Okay, when it was done, did you say, man, this 1415 01:12:01,920 --> 01:12:03,479 Speaker 1: is a hit, this is going to go all the way, 1416 01:12:03,560 --> 01:12:05,800 Speaker 1: or you just say, hey, this is another good track. 1417 01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:07,120 Speaker 1: It'll get some radioaction. 1418 01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:08,800 Speaker 2: No, I knew it was a hit. 1419 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:09,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. 1420 01:12:09,640 --> 01:12:14,000 Speaker 2: It had all that stuff, you know. Yeah, it's you know, 1421 01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:17,840 Speaker 2: it's it's a cliche line. It's easy for people to sing, 1422 01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:22,840 Speaker 2: it's a pop song. It had everything there, you know. 1423 01:12:24,479 --> 01:12:26,479 Speaker 2: I kind of like the guitar solo too. I don't 1424 01:12:26,520 --> 01:12:28,439 Speaker 2: I'm not a I don't really pay attention to any 1425 01:12:28,439 --> 01:12:32,400 Speaker 2: of that stuff. But it did. It did fire through 1426 01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:36,400 Speaker 2: the like normally when a guitar solo solo would come in, 1427 01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:39,840 Speaker 2: if it's just wheedling and just a bunch of stuff 1428 01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:41,800 Speaker 2: that doesn't have any meaning to it. Not that there's 1429 01:12:41,840 --> 01:12:44,720 Speaker 2: anything wrong with that either, sometimes just the intensity of that. 1430 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:46,960 Speaker 2: But I wanted it to be melodic. I wanted to 1431 01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:51,000 Speaker 2: fire it off and keep people's attention because nobody really 1432 01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,000 Speaker 2: wants to hear to me. I don't know, when they're 1433 01:12:53,040 --> 01:12:55,200 Speaker 2: listening to a song sing along, they don't really want 1434 01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:58,880 Speaker 2: to hear guitar solos, right unless unless there's something memorable 1435 01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,240 Speaker 2: about it, and what mel I some sort or whatever. 1436 01:13:01,280 --> 01:13:04,040 Speaker 2: And I thought as a record that completed everything at 1437 01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:05,559 Speaker 2: the very end of the song, what I used to 1438 01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:08,559 Speaker 2: put on the end of all of them, every one 1439 01:13:08,600 --> 01:13:13,200 Speaker 2: on Crimes and Passion, it was called it E nine 1440 01:13:13,240 --> 01:13:15,760 Speaker 2: to eleven chord, And no matter what song it was, 1441 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:18,000 Speaker 2: I'd always played a SA so all the outtakes, if 1442 01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:20,000 Speaker 2: you heard outtekes of the record, they'd have that little 1443 01:13:20,240 --> 01:13:23,040 Speaker 2: chord on the end of it and hit me add 1444 01:13:23,080 --> 01:13:23,599 Speaker 2: that to the sad. 1445 01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,679 Speaker 1: So how did you end up recording You Better Run 1446 01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:27,760 Speaker 1: by the Rascals? 1447 01:13:28,080 --> 01:13:32,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was for the Roady Soundcheck soundtrack the film, 1448 01:13:33,120 --> 01:13:35,640 Speaker 2: and that's where we worked with Keith first. And that 1449 01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:39,920 Speaker 2: warned great. That was almost a test, a testing point. 1450 01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:41,840 Speaker 2: They said, well we'll do that first. That was the 1451 01:13:41,840 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 2: first song we recorded, and we were all in a 1452 01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,000 Speaker 2: studio for that, so I was in there. We did 1453 01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,599 Speaker 2: the vocal. Everything nobody ever left out of that and 1454 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,680 Speaker 2: that was just done for the Roady soundtrack. 1455 01:13:51,760 --> 01:13:53,120 Speaker 1: I think who picked the track. 1456 01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:57,559 Speaker 2: Actually Patricia used to use it in some of those 1457 01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:01,120 Speaker 2: gigs that she was doing before, but more, you know, 1458 01:14:01,160 --> 01:14:03,479 Speaker 2: more like a tame version, like a little organ part 1459 01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:06,639 Speaker 2: had it and more it wasn't as like maybe guitar 1460 01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:07,840 Speaker 2: driven that kind of thing. 1461 01:14:08,479 --> 01:14:11,160 Speaker 1: And what's the story on Treat Me Right? 1462 01:14:13,520 --> 01:14:15,479 Speaker 2: I think Treat Me Right just came in as a 1463 01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,760 Speaker 2: collection of songs that people thought the record company thought 1464 01:14:18,800 --> 01:14:24,160 Speaker 2: would be good. Normally, if if we didn't write the songs, 1465 01:14:25,560 --> 01:14:28,800 Speaker 2: they would be given to me. And what I always 1466 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,439 Speaker 2: did always is I would I would really rip them 1467 01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,080 Speaker 2: apart and it would never sound like any demo that 1468 01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:37,840 Speaker 2: was given I did. I did that all the time. 1469 01:14:38,120 --> 01:14:41,800 Speaker 2: I wanted to. I wanted to make it for Patricia 1470 01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,519 Speaker 2: and make it different, and I just I just I 1471 01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,320 Speaker 2: just hear it different. That's another thing that which I 1472 01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,600 Speaker 2: do and I love. When I was learning guitar and 1473 01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,400 Speaker 2: keepers well guitar, especially from the pioneers, I would learn 1474 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:57,920 Speaker 2: the parts, but I wouldn't concentrate on the parts. I 1475 01:14:57,960 --> 01:15:00,800 Speaker 2: would try to find parts that I would play and 1476 01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,439 Speaker 2: embellish the parts. So I was always looking as a 1477 01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:09,439 Speaker 2: sidebar to kind of change the arrangement or parts in 1478 01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:13,240 Speaker 2: all those songs. So by taking a song if we 1479 01:15:13,280 --> 01:15:15,040 Speaker 2: didn't write it, I would try to really mess it 1480 01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,080 Speaker 2: up and try a lot of different ways to do 1481 01:15:17,120 --> 01:15:19,240 Speaker 2: it and come up with something different, interesting, you know. 1482 01:15:19,479 --> 01:15:23,639 Speaker 1: Okay, on the second album there's a cover of Wuthering Heights. 1483 01:15:23,720 --> 01:15:26,800 Speaker 1: Kate Bush is an icon. Now that was on our 1484 01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:30,439 Speaker 1: first album, had like no traction in America. How'd you 1485 01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:31,840 Speaker 1: end up recording that song? 1486 01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,000 Speaker 2: We were on tour in the beginning of nineteen eighty. 1487 01:15:35,040 --> 01:15:37,519 Speaker 2: We were in this little petit cap what is it 1488 01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,439 Speaker 2: called the Petite I can't remember the name. It was 1489 01:15:40,479 --> 01:15:43,639 Speaker 2: this little cafe in France, in Paris, and we were 1490 01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:47,439 Speaker 2: having lunch and I love Kate Bush. I was aware 1491 01:15:47,439 --> 01:15:51,880 Speaker 2: of that, and I heard out in the landing. I'm thinking, ooh, 1492 01:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,679 Speaker 2: we should do that. I love Kate Bush. We should 1493 01:15:54,680 --> 01:15:56,960 Speaker 2: do that song. So at that point that's when we 1494 01:15:57,000 --> 01:15:59,799 Speaker 2: did it. After hearing it in the cafe, I said, Patricia, 1495 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:02,040 Speaker 2: than it is, this could be a really good song 1496 01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:02,559 Speaker 2: for us. 1497 01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:06,519 Speaker 1: Okay from the outside, I mean I had the first 1498 01:16:06,560 --> 01:16:09,519 Speaker 1: album and was certainly aware, but hit me with your 1499 01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:14,320 Speaker 1: best shot, blows pat bennettar into the upper leagues as 1500 01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:17,400 Speaker 1: big as anybody else. What does it look like from 1501 01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:19,439 Speaker 1: your perspective, Yeah. 1502 01:16:19,479 --> 01:16:23,360 Speaker 2: It was the same thing. It was right around the time, 1503 01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:26,360 Speaker 2: and it would be after MTV, I mean after the 1504 01:16:26,360 --> 01:16:29,519 Speaker 2: beginning of MTV, which would be You Better Run, So 1505 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:32,120 Speaker 2: you Better Run was out there before hit me was 1506 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:36,479 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure. So yeah, that blew up. That blew up, 1507 01:16:37,760 --> 01:16:41,559 Speaker 2: it did. It blew up big. The part I liked 1508 01:16:41,640 --> 01:16:45,840 Speaker 2: is it pulled attention to some of the other hells 1509 01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,639 Speaker 2: for children's songs like that. Those are my favorite because 1510 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:54,040 Speaker 2: they're I don't know, I just I just like them. 1511 01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:58,880 Speaker 1: And you wrote them. Okay. Meanwhile, as you referenced earlier, 1512 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:04,200 Speaker 1: Pat is married. Her married name is Bennett tar where's 1513 01:17:04,240 --> 01:17:05,800 Speaker 1: her husband doing all this? 1514 01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:08,799 Speaker 2: Well, he was there. He was there in the beginning 1515 01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:12,639 Speaker 2: of I remember. I remember when I went to meet her. 1516 01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:18,960 Speaker 2: She was like, it was like insane, because this is 1517 01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,679 Speaker 2: part of the metaphysical stuff, the universe, which never seems 1518 01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:26,519 Speaker 2: to get it wrong. As I'm walking through the door, 1519 01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:30,439 Speaker 2: I see her and I'm walking towards her, and the 1520 01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,439 Speaker 2: whole room disappeared. There was like for her too. There's 1521 01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:36,840 Speaker 2: no one else made any difference in the room, just 1522 01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:39,120 Speaker 2: her and I'm just walking up and I remember just 1523 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,720 Speaker 2: talking to her and all of a sudden she turns around. 1524 01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:44,400 Speaker 2: She goes, well, this is my home husband. And I said, oh, well, 1525 01:17:44,520 --> 01:17:48,000 Speaker 2: nice to meet you. I mean, sure, nice. 1526 01:17:48,160 --> 01:17:48,639 Speaker 1: And he was. 1527 01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:53,080 Speaker 2: Around and I didn't know any I didn't know anything. 1528 01:17:53,160 --> 01:17:56,360 Speaker 2: I didn't know their relationship. But it wasn't like that 1529 01:17:56,479 --> 01:17:58,600 Speaker 2: wasn't what I was there for. I'm professional, I'm not 1530 01:17:58,640 --> 01:18:01,360 Speaker 2: going to do that there. Whatever the relationship is, Yeah, 1531 01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:05,599 Speaker 2: that's sure. I'm there to be a partner, work together 1532 01:18:05,920 --> 01:18:08,559 Speaker 2: and make great records and have a great career. That 1533 01:18:08,680 --> 01:18:09,000 Speaker 2: was it. 1534 01:18:10,040 --> 01:18:13,840 Speaker 1: So how did it end with him and begin with 1535 01:18:13,920 --> 01:18:15,679 Speaker 1: you or vice versa. 1536 01:18:16,200 --> 01:18:19,759 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I didn't realize that there was a friction 1537 01:18:19,880 --> 01:18:24,760 Speaker 2: in the relationship relationship, but I remember, uh, there was 1538 01:18:24,840 --> 01:18:26,080 Speaker 2: friction in my relationship. 1539 01:18:26,840 --> 01:18:29,080 Speaker 1: And this was the same woman from Connecticut. 1540 01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:35,439 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, And it was just the timing it was. 1541 01:18:35,640 --> 01:18:39,280 Speaker 2: It wasn't right for it wasn't right for her and I. 1542 01:18:39,520 --> 01:18:44,200 Speaker 2: You know, but I remember, I mean, here, you it's 1543 01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:47,000 Speaker 2: like the water cooler syndrome. You know, you're you're you're 1544 01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,680 Speaker 2: in the band together. Here and I are partners. The 1545 01:18:50,720 --> 01:18:52,360 Speaker 2: rest of the guys were going to tell them what 1546 01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,200 Speaker 2: we want to do. But we are the partners, so 1547 01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:57,200 Speaker 2: here we go. You know what what she wanted? What 1548 01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,760 Speaker 2: you know what the plan was is, you know, you 1549 01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:04,479 Speaker 2: know Keith and what do you call it? Sorry, Jimmy, 1550 01:19:04,600 --> 01:19:07,160 Speaker 2: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant, you know, and Keith and 1551 01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:10,920 Speaker 2: Mick and you know that whole sender, guitar singer, right, 1552 01:19:11,000 --> 01:19:17,280 Speaker 2: this is the whole pattern. Right. So we're getting We're 1553 01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:21,360 Speaker 2: getting closer and closer. We're together all the time, so 1554 01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,400 Speaker 2: things are starting to have a little bit. So I says, 1555 01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:27,479 Speaker 2: I think we need to have a meeting. I need 1556 01:19:27,479 --> 01:19:30,000 Speaker 2: to tell you something important. So she thought I was 1557 01:19:30,080 --> 01:19:33,240 Speaker 2: going to tell her that I was leaving the band. 1558 01:19:33,520 --> 01:19:35,280 Speaker 2: That was just going to be gone. This was after 1559 01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:37,040 Speaker 2: the record was done. By the way, we weren't we 1560 01:19:37,040 --> 01:19:41,840 Speaker 2: weren't together. This was we just musicians out a relationship. 1561 01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,559 Speaker 2: So I had this conversation. She thought I was leaving 1562 01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:49,679 Speaker 2: the band, and I remember I was doing these little 1563 01:19:49,680 --> 01:19:52,360 Speaker 2: figures that I were sitting there and I'm having a 1564 01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:56,679 Speaker 2: cup of tea or something, and I tell her, my girlfriend, 1565 01:19:56,840 --> 01:19:59,960 Speaker 2: it's not working out. She did something that wasn't appropriate, 1566 01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:06,040 Speaker 2: and I'm leaving her you know. And then she subsequently 1567 01:20:06,160 --> 01:20:11,439 Speaker 2: said things aren't working out with me either, and I said, well, 1568 01:20:11,720 --> 01:20:15,400 Speaker 2: you want to go out or something and nuts, and 1569 01:20:15,760 --> 01:20:18,559 Speaker 2: that's that's what happened. That's how it happened. 1570 01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:21,040 Speaker 1: And I think his name was Dennis. How did he 1571 01:20:21,160 --> 01:20:21,439 Speaker 1: take it? 1572 01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:29,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think he took it well. My girlfriend 1573 01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:32,720 Speaker 2: at the time didn't take it well. But we had 1574 01:20:32,720 --> 01:20:40,400 Speaker 2: a record. We had an after record party in Los Angeles. 1575 01:20:40,400 --> 01:20:44,080 Speaker 2: Were heated in that record and my girlfriend was there 1576 01:20:45,640 --> 01:20:48,840 Speaker 2: and her husband, Dennis was there, but they were sitting 1577 01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:52,840 Speaker 2: next to each other, so it was well, and the 1578 01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,439 Speaker 2: Patricia was more towards me and we both kind of 1579 01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:59,719 Speaker 2: just looked at her for a second and went, maybe 1580 01:20:59,760 --> 01:21:02,760 Speaker 2: that's an omen you know. And that never happened. They 1581 01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:05,080 Speaker 2: they never got together, but they were having so much 1582 01:21:05,080 --> 01:21:09,360 Speaker 2: fun talking. I'm thinking, well, I guess I think something 1583 01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:11,760 Speaker 2: else is gonna happen. But this this was before any 1584 01:21:11,800 --> 01:21:13,760 Speaker 2: ideas were going on. This is when we're still in 1585 01:21:13,840 --> 01:21:17,479 Speaker 2: La So and from the very first show we did 1586 01:21:17,560 --> 01:21:20,120 Speaker 2: live we were a couple. That was it. 1587 01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:29,320 Speaker 1: Okay, how does MTV change the UH Act from being 1588 01:21:29,400 --> 01:21:31,799 Speaker 1: inside the act? Yeah? 1589 01:21:31,840 --> 01:21:35,080 Speaker 2: Well, that thing it blew up everything. I mean, it was. 1590 01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:39,160 Speaker 2: It was. It was from walking out your front door 1591 01:21:39,240 --> 01:21:42,240 Speaker 2: and getting in the car and going to CVS or 1592 01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,800 Speaker 2: something to go buy some toothpaste. So you can't get 1593 01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:46,360 Speaker 2: out your front door because a bunch of people there. 1594 01:21:46,400 --> 01:21:49,240 Speaker 2: Oh my god. Right. I was like, oh shit, this 1595 01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:53,720 Speaker 2: what just happened? And then it never stopped. So it 1596 01:21:53,800 --> 01:21:56,040 Speaker 2: got it. We just got out of control. 1597 01:21:56,400 --> 01:22:01,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, so the next album you also work with Keith O. 1598 01:22:01,200 --> 01:22:04,479 Speaker 1: You get a co producer credit. If there were issues 1599 01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:06,439 Speaker 1: on the previous album, why'd you work with them on 1600 01:22:06,479 --> 01:22:07,200 Speaker 1: that album? 1601 01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:09,880 Speaker 2: Because of the success of it. You know, the record companies, 1602 01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:11,360 Speaker 2: you know, they're not going to make a move and 1603 01:22:11,680 --> 01:22:13,479 Speaker 2: I fight it. I wanted Pete to come back, him 1604 01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:16,479 Speaker 2: and I, but I wasn't gonna fight a battle with that. 1605 01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:18,479 Speaker 2: I just said, okay, we'll do it. And that was 1606 01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,000 Speaker 2: that was. That was a disaster. So that was that 1607 01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:24,320 Speaker 2: was lining up to be the end with with working 1608 01:22:24,360 --> 01:22:27,120 Speaker 2: with Keith for sure. Yeah, that was. Yeah. It really 1609 01:22:27,160 --> 01:22:30,000 Speaker 2: had some trouble times and I feel bad for him. 1610 01:22:30,160 --> 01:22:33,840 Speaker 2: You know, you know, his his his wife's sister lived 1611 01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,200 Speaker 2: across from where we lived, and you know, he'd call 1612 01:22:36,280 --> 01:22:37,400 Speaker 2: me in the middle and I could you do me 1613 01:22:37,400 --> 01:22:38,880 Speaker 2: a favorite. Could you just walk over there? I can't 1614 01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:41,160 Speaker 2: find my wife, and I mean it really personal issues. 1615 01:22:41,200 --> 01:22:43,599 Speaker 2: It was awful. I hated to see that happen to him. 1616 01:22:44,439 --> 01:22:47,280 Speaker 2: But but I was growing too, We were all growing. 1617 01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:49,760 Speaker 2: I didn't want I didn't want to make the same 1618 01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:53,719 Speaker 2: record again. I I needed to make different I wanted 1619 01:22:53,720 --> 01:22:57,720 Speaker 2: something different to happen, more genres of different space, different things. 1620 01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:05,920 Speaker 1: Okay, you're not front person. However, there's gigantic success. To 1621 01:23:06,040 --> 01:23:08,599 Speaker 1: what degree do you feel pressure to equal it? 1622 01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:13,320 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, there was always pressure, but it didn't It 1623 01:23:13,320 --> 01:23:16,360 Speaker 2: didn't affect me at all. Pressure pressure is living in 1624 01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,760 Speaker 2: Cleveland and not knowing what your future holds and how 1625 01:23:20,840 --> 01:23:25,080 Speaker 2: how you have to live through neurosis and sickness and 1626 01:23:25,160 --> 01:23:28,360 Speaker 2: all the other things. None of that stuff. I wasn't 1627 01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,920 Speaker 2: afraid of any of that. Part of the thing, Bob, 1628 01:23:32,000 --> 01:23:35,040 Speaker 2: is that with everything I did, I want to challenge 1629 01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:38,600 Speaker 2: myself because I got over some really nasty sickness and 1630 01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:45,120 Speaker 2: emotional chaos that I was going to challenge everything myself. 1631 01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:49,439 Speaker 2: The audience didn't matter what. I wasn't afraid for one second. 1632 01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:53,640 Speaker 1: So you had complete confidence. You never second guess yourself, 1633 01:23:53,680 --> 01:23:56,360 Speaker 1: You were never up the middle of the night, saying, shit, 1634 01:23:56,479 --> 01:23:57,960 Speaker 1: maybe we're going in the wrong direction. 1635 01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:01,800 Speaker 2: Nope, not once did. I did later on. I think 1636 01:24:01,800 --> 01:24:04,519 Speaker 2: it was around this seventh record or something. Yeah, I did. 1637 01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:06,720 Speaker 2: I did later, but not in the beginning. Not then. No, 1638 01:24:07,120 --> 01:24:08,760 Speaker 2: I was coming in and I would say, this is 1639 01:24:09,160 --> 01:24:11,760 Speaker 2: I want to try this. Everybody on board, We're going 1640 01:24:11,840 --> 01:24:12,920 Speaker 2: to do this. Let's do this. 1641 01:24:13,200 --> 01:24:15,719 Speaker 1: Okay, how did you end up recording Fire and Ice? 1642 01:24:17,160 --> 01:24:20,799 Speaker 2: Fire and Ice was a song that Tom Kelly was writing, 1643 01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:24,800 Speaker 2: and uh, and uh, he just had it, he just 1644 01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:27,599 Speaker 2: had it. We brought it in when wow, this this 1645 01:24:27,840 --> 01:24:29,920 Speaker 2: course explodes here, this is this will be really good 1646 01:24:29,960 --> 01:24:32,600 Speaker 2: for Patricia and and we just went in and did it. 1647 01:24:32,640 --> 01:24:35,240 Speaker 2: I think I was on precious time. Uh yeah, that 1648 01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:36,880 Speaker 2: record right, the second third one? 1649 01:24:36,960 --> 01:24:39,920 Speaker 1: And then how about the Raiders cover? 1650 01:24:40,600 --> 01:24:43,680 Speaker 2: Uh that was just Look. Here's the thing too, this 1651 01:24:43,840 --> 01:24:47,320 Speaker 2: was we we really didn't have enough time between records, 1652 01:24:47,600 --> 01:24:51,919 Speaker 2: you know, the the management this was a poor decision 1653 01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:54,800 Speaker 2: on their part. Our legal team too, was it was 1654 01:24:54,800 --> 01:24:57,880 Speaker 2: wasn't a good thing. When we had the huge success 1655 01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:00,760 Speaker 2: with Crimes of Passion, we had a if we didn't 1656 01:25:00,800 --> 01:25:03,760 Speaker 2: make a record every nine months, we'd go into suspension. Now, 1657 01:25:04,040 --> 01:25:05,640 Speaker 2: if you make to have that kind of success the 1658 01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,679 Speaker 2: Crimes of Passion had, you can waive all that stuff. 1659 01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:11,240 Speaker 2: You can make a difference, you can change all kinds 1660 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,639 Speaker 2: of things. Well, they never changed that. They get more money, 1661 01:25:14,680 --> 01:25:17,120 Speaker 2: He got more money, but that was just an advance. 1662 01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:23,799 Speaker 2: So it was a really bad, bad business management decision. 1663 01:25:23,880 --> 01:25:25,920 Speaker 2: So we'd get done with the road and they say, well, 1664 01:25:25,920 --> 01:25:27,280 Speaker 2: guess what. You got to go back in the studio 1665 01:25:27,320 --> 01:25:29,640 Speaker 2: in about two weeks. So we didn't have time to 1666 01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,040 Speaker 2: sit there and write songs. We were writing songs on 1667 01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:36,120 Speaker 2: the road. There was too much chaos, right, so we 1668 01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:38,800 Speaker 2: didn't have the time to do it, you know. And 1669 01:25:39,040 --> 01:25:41,400 Speaker 2: they were just looking for covers, you know. And Patricia 1670 01:25:41,439 --> 01:25:43,240 Speaker 2: found it and said let's do that. I said, okay, 1671 01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,320 Speaker 2: sure you want to do it, we'll do it. 1672 01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:57,439 Speaker 3: It was, you know whatever, Okay, who's the manager? 1673 01:25:58,280 --> 01:26:01,799 Speaker 1: Rick Newman, right, so he was still the manager. Now 1674 01:26:03,439 --> 01:26:06,880 Speaker 1: somewhere along this line you get involved with Rick Springfield 1675 01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:09,200 Speaker 1: and Jesse's girl. How the hell does that happen? 1676 01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:16,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, that happens because I let's see, it was 1677 01:26:16,320 --> 01:26:19,400 Speaker 2: I think it was after Crimes of Passion. Crimes of 1678 01:26:19,439 --> 01:26:24,320 Speaker 2: Passion was done, and then I was offered a job 1679 01:26:24,360 --> 01:26:28,080 Speaker 2: to produce John Waite's for a solo record, So I 1680 01:26:28,120 --> 01:26:32,439 Speaker 2: produced Ignition for John Waite and and then that was 1681 01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,240 Speaker 2: starting to do really well. And then Keith and I 1682 01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,040 Speaker 2: were getting along at that time, and he says, you know, 1683 01:26:38,080 --> 01:26:39,880 Speaker 2: I really want you to do let's do this together. 1684 01:26:40,120 --> 01:26:41,840 Speaker 2: That was the idea. We're going to produce it together. 1685 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:43,320 Speaker 2: You and I were going to do this thing. And 1686 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:47,120 Speaker 2: and then I heard the song from Rick and I'm thinking, wow, Rick, 1687 01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:49,519 Speaker 2: he wrote it, this is a great song. This is 1688 01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:51,599 Speaker 2: going to be a great pop song, going to be great. 1689 01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,479 Speaker 2: And it was very stiff, and it didn't have the 1690 01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:58,080 Speaker 2: middle eight section and it needed help. But the song 1691 01:26:58,120 --> 01:27:01,400 Speaker 2: itself was very, very strong, and like Rick likes to 1692 01:27:01,400 --> 01:27:03,800 Speaker 2: explain it, when he was doing ad Do Do Do 1693 01:27:04,280 --> 01:27:07,080 Speaker 2: is very stiff, right, It was more like a like 1694 01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,760 Speaker 2: you know, and then my natural thing is to swing 1695 01:27:12,800 --> 01:27:15,439 Speaker 2: it more dumb bob boom boom boom, just kind of 1696 01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:18,960 Speaker 2: grab that kind of feel and beat. So then we 1697 01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,040 Speaker 2: went in the studio and I do what I would 1698 01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:23,639 Speaker 2: do most of the time if it's a live track 1699 01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,920 Speaker 2: we're cutting it on, you do guitar and drums and vocals, 1700 01:27:26,120 --> 01:27:28,639 Speaker 2: and then you do overdubbed the bass. I don't want 1701 01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:30,240 Speaker 2: the bass in there because I really want to work 1702 01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,240 Speaker 2: inside the drummer because I played drums and I like 1703 01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,880 Speaker 2: the rhythm to really kind of link together so I 1704 01:27:34,880 --> 01:27:37,600 Speaker 2: can hear that really defined in the vocal. And so 1705 01:27:37,680 --> 01:27:39,360 Speaker 2: we just went in and did that. We did I've 1706 01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:42,680 Speaker 2: done everything for you. That was another song that was 1707 01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,599 Speaker 2: I think floating around that Sammy Hagar did and kind 1708 01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:47,960 Speaker 2: of introduced that to Rick too. 1709 01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:53,439 Speaker 1: So did you know because Rick Springfield was at the 1710 01:27:53,640 --> 01:27:57,240 Speaker 1: nader of his career, no one cared about Rick Springfield. 1711 01:27:57,840 --> 01:28:00,400 Speaker 1: Did you have any idea that was going to be 1712 01:28:00,439 --> 01:28:02,000 Speaker 1: the gigantic track it was? 1713 01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:06,800 Speaker 2: Truthfully, yeah, I thought it was a smash. When we 1714 01:28:06,840 --> 01:28:08,640 Speaker 2: had it done, I went, this is this is a 1715 01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:12,240 Speaker 2: number one song, and then it became number one. So so, Bob, 1716 01:28:12,240 --> 01:28:14,280 Speaker 2: here's the deal. I have a number one song. I 1717 01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:18,000 Speaker 2: just got done producer John Waite's record. Ozzie's asking me 1718 01:28:18,040 --> 01:28:20,519 Speaker 2: to produce his record. I'm getting all these other offers. 1719 01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:26,360 Speaker 2: Crimes of Passion is exploding. I feel like, Oh, I 1720 01:28:26,400 --> 01:28:30,320 Speaker 2: can do anything, do anything. Now, look out, I'm coming 1721 01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:30,640 Speaker 2: at you. 1722 01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:36,120 Speaker 1: Okay. This is the music business and a lot of 1723 01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:38,799 Speaker 1: the songs were not written by either you or Pat 1724 01:28:39,160 --> 01:28:43,519 Speaker 1: correct Were you seeing the money and were you seeing 1725 01:28:43,560 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: the amount of money you should have seen? 1726 01:28:47,400 --> 01:28:53,200 Speaker 2: No, no, but but it certainly was enough that it 1727 01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:58,280 Speaker 2: was okay. So it really wasn't about that part, you know. 1728 01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:00,600 Speaker 2: I always felt, like I said in earlier in our 1729 01:29:00,680 --> 01:29:03,240 Speaker 2: conversation today, is that if you do a great song, 1730 01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,200 Speaker 2: it's going to be heard. If if I take somebody 1731 01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:09,120 Speaker 2: else's song that they wrote and I completely dismantled the 1732 01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:12,960 Speaker 2: hell out of it and make it into something that's great, 1733 01:29:13,880 --> 01:29:15,680 Speaker 2: it's gonna make but it's gonna do what it has 1734 01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:17,240 Speaker 2: to do. And I'm not worried about the money. I 1735 01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:19,040 Speaker 2: don't care about it. I want it to be a hit. 1736 01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:23,120 Speaker 2: Listen loves a Battlefee was turned down by the record company. 1737 01:29:23,160 --> 01:29:25,240 Speaker 2: They hate it and said, what's it? What's your problem? 1738 01:29:25,320 --> 01:29:27,280 Speaker 2: Mike Chapman, who wrote it, said in Holly and I said, 1739 01:29:28,120 --> 01:29:31,599 Speaker 2: what the hell you do it? We hate it. Peter Coleman, 1740 01:29:31,760 --> 01:29:34,559 Speaker 2: who I did it with Pete and he says, I 1741 01:29:34,560 --> 01:29:37,280 Speaker 2: don't think. I don't get that. What were you thinking about? 1742 01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:40,360 Speaker 2: I go, Pete, I know this is a hit like this, 1743 01:29:40,640 --> 01:29:43,680 Speaker 2: I know it's a hit. I guarantee this song's a hit. 1744 01:29:44,120 --> 01:29:46,360 Speaker 2: And then Pete. The great story is Pete goes home. 1745 01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:49,360 Speaker 2: He's not a drinker. He goes home and he drinks 1746 01:29:50,080 --> 01:29:53,120 Speaker 2: half a bottle of Kognak. He puts it on and 1747 01:29:53,160 --> 01:29:56,680 Speaker 2: he listens to it. He goes son of a Bitchniel's 1748 01:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,960 Speaker 2: right came in the next day. He says, I'm behind 1749 01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:00,639 Speaker 2: you one hundred percent. Get it now. 1750 01:30:01,840 --> 01:30:07,479 Speaker 1: Okay. They didn't like it because radically different from the demo, 1751 01:30:07,600 --> 01:30:08,720 Speaker 1: or they just didn't like it. 1752 01:30:08,760 --> 01:30:13,519 Speaker 2: Oh, radically different, a different, completely different song. You know, 1753 01:30:13,680 --> 01:30:19,040 Speaker 2: the demo was very melancholy, and you know, didn't have 1754 01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,040 Speaker 2: the didn't have any of those things that were going 1755 01:30:22,080 --> 01:30:24,679 Speaker 2: on that would give it the kick the charge, right, 1756 01:30:24,800 --> 01:30:28,120 Speaker 2: you know, it's not starting up, you know, you know. 1757 01:30:28,160 --> 01:30:30,280 Speaker 2: And I put the talking on because I thought it'd 1758 01:30:30,280 --> 01:30:32,519 Speaker 2: be funny, like the Supremes put whistling on. I thought 1759 01:30:32,560 --> 01:30:35,720 Speaker 2: that was kind of fun. Took a little light hearted thing, 1760 01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,479 Speaker 2: made it more like a Bo Diddley beat, got a 1761 01:30:38,479 --> 01:30:42,120 Speaker 2: different groove, sped it up considerably, changed the whole dynamic 1762 01:30:42,120 --> 01:30:43,880 Speaker 2: of the song. But I felt that was the right 1763 01:30:43,920 --> 01:30:47,200 Speaker 2: thing to do. And the real funny part is that 1764 01:30:47,520 --> 01:30:49,439 Speaker 2: when it be and Mike hated it, so when it 1765 01:30:49,439 --> 01:30:52,200 Speaker 2: became a hit, people were calling him and saying, could 1766 01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:56,360 Speaker 2: you write another one like Battlefield? I know somebody that did, 1767 01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:59,080 Speaker 2: and I'll tell you who that was. You know, the 1768 01:30:59,120 --> 01:31:03,120 Speaker 2: saw Boys of some of course. Okay, how similar is that? 1769 01:31:03,120 --> 01:31:04,120 Speaker 2: The Love is a Battlefield? 1770 01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:06,120 Speaker 1: Pretty similar? 1771 01:31:06,520 --> 01:31:10,320 Speaker 2: Oh? Interesting? Interesting? Well, listen, you could say what you 1772 01:31:10,320 --> 01:31:14,200 Speaker 2: want about Don Haley. He's a very talented guy. He's 1773 01:31:14,200 --> 01:31:17,360 Speaker 2: got a little reputation sometimes not being a nice guy whatever, 1774 01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:19,479 Speaker 2: But I'll tell you what that guy is an honest guy. 1775 01:31:20,120 --> 01:31:23,479 Speaker 2: He's honest and he's a great talent. Right. He ran 1776 01:31:23,520 --> 01:31:26,040 Speaker 2: into me at MCA Whitney Studios. He said, how did 1777 01:31:26,080 --> 01:31:28,840 Speaker 2: you do Battlefield? I said, you want to know? He goes, yeah, 1778 01:31:28,840 --> 01:31:30,920 Speaker 2: I want to steal it. I said, you do. I 1779 01:31:30,960 --> 01:31:32,360 Speaker 2: go Here's how I did it. I did it on 1780 01:31:32,400 --> 01:31:35,240 Speaker 2: a LYNDR. I did this. I did it on this beat. 1781 01:31:35,320 --> 01:31:37,400 Speaker 2: I wanted a bowdilly beat. I wanted to have this. 1782 01:31:37,400 --> 01:31:39,000 Speaker 2: This is what I did. So I explained it to 1783 01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,120 Speaker 2: him and he went out and he did it. 1784 01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:41,599 Speaker 3: Cool. 1785 01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,400 Speaker 2: But somebody else that was part of it doesn't say 1786 01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:46,200 Speaker 2: the same story. 1787 01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:51,759 Speaker 1: So okay, well, you know, I both know personally and 1788 01:31:52,080 --> 01:31:56,679 Speaker 1: you know it's pretty out there who's involved. But when 1789 01:31:56,720 --> 01:32:00,320 Speaker 1: it is a hit, do you feel proud or rip doll? 1790 01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,439 Speaker 2: I proud? From from from Don Henley's point of view, 1791 01:32:04,479 --> 01:32:08,120 Speaker 2: I feel proud. Yeah, I don't. I don't feel ripped. 1792 01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:13,840 Speaker 2: I just you know, in music, you you you know, 1793 01:32:14,160 --> 01:32:16,760 Speaker 2: it's it's important to be truth people. People can smell 1794 01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:19,519 Speaker 2: when it's not the truth, right, it's important. And and 1795 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:22,760 Speaker 2: I just think if you if you're gonna, if you're 1796 01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:26,280 Speaker 2: gonna go on social media or something like that, just 1797 01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:28,400 Speaker 2: tell the truth, you know, find you know, you don't 1798 01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:31,040 Speaker 2: have to, you don't have to make up something. You know, 1799 01:32:31,120 --> 01:32:34,960 Speaker 2: it's it's just it's just odd to me. You think 1800 01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,439 Speaker 2: somebody would kind of make sense. You know. I heard 1801 01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:40,639 Speaker 2: this record, you know, I really liked it. Doesn't buy 1802 01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:43,639 Speaker 2: you bother anybody. Just tell the truth on it, right. 1803 01:32:44,040 --> 01:32:46,120 Speaker 2: But I did see a little I have to say 1804 01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:49,120 Speaker 2: that because I saw a little YouTube thing I'm talking with, like, 1805 01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:51,400 Speaker 2: I wonder how you got that idea? 1806 01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:58,760 Speaker 1: So okay, moving on Shadows of the Night, Yeah, m hmm, 1807 01:32:59,160 --> 01:32:59,880 Speaker 1: Shadows of the Night. 1808 01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:06,759 Speaker 2: It's a story there, great chorus, had a great chorus, 1809 01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:07,559 Speaker 2: and knew that was right. 1810 01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:09,040 Speaker 1: The verse. 1811 01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:14,960 Speaker 2: The verse lyrics were not good, so we rewrote those. 1812 01:33:16,320 --> 01:33:20,280 Speaker 2: That's the one where there should be credit established for that, 1813 01:33:20,360 --> 01:33:25,000 Speaker 2: but there wasn't. Didn't have an intro was killing me 1814 01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:26,920 Speaker 2: because I the intro I had was horrible. It's like 1815 01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,360 Speaker 2: d D D D D D D D ball boom. 1816 01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:33,280 Speaker 2: It's horrible. It was bothering me. I knew I had 1817 01:33:33,280 --> 01:33:34,720 Speaker 2: a hit, but I didn't know how to start it. 1818 01:33:34,760 --> 01:33:36,920 Speaker 2: And you know that if you if you're gonna have 1819 01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:40,600 Speaker 2: a hit record, that intro better defined. You better know 1820 01:33:40,680 --> 01:33:43,080 Speaker 2: what that is within the first eight bars. So I 1821 01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:47,639 Speaker 2: battlefield boomed bah bah boom, bah bah bah boom, ba boom. 1822 01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,439 Speaker 2: You know the song we belong baa b b b 1823 01:33:50,560 --> 01:33:53,479 Speaker 2: b buh. You know the song right shuttles at the night. 1824 01:33:53,800 --> 01:33:56,000 Speaker 2: So Pete's in the other room. I'm getting a cup 1825 01:33:56,040 --> 01:33:59,120 Speaker 2: of tea. I hear through the hall of him balancing 1826 01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,720 Speaker 2: the vocals of the horus. As I hear that, I go, 1827 01:34:04,040 --> 01:34:07,080 Speaker 2: that's it. So I go running from the kitchen and 1828 01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:10,400 Speaker 2: I go, Pete, stop, stop that right there. That's our intro. 1829 01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:12,479 Speaker 2: He said, what are you talking about? He says, Let's 1830 01:34:12,560 --> 01:34:14,479 Speaker 2: take that. Let's put it on a quarter inch machine. 1831 01:34:14,560 --> 01:34:17,120 Speaker 2: Let's fly it in the beginning that is our intro, 1832 01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:19,200 Speaker 2: and that's how we got the intro, the a cappella part. 1833 01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:22,040 Speaker 2: He was balancing the vocals there and I wanted to 1834 01:34:22,040 --> 01:34:23,960 Speaker 2: put that on the front of front of the record, 1835 01:34:24,200 --> 01:34:27,360 Speaker 2: and that's, to me, was a part that really made 1836 01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:31,799 Speaker 2: that song hit because you want to have a great beginning, 1837 01:34:31,800 --> 01:34:34,080 Speaker 2: and that's starting. What all those vocals was. It just 1838 01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:36,519 Speaker 2: sounds so beautiful. Her voice sounds tremendous on it. 1839 01:34:37,400 --> 01:34:41,920 Speaker 1: So you're working with Peter Coleman again. Is the magic 1840 01:34:42,000 --> 01:34:43,360 Speaker 1: still there? Yes? 1841 01:34:44,200 --> 01:34:46,680 Speaker 2: Absolutely, we could have went him and I could have 1842 01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:51,479 Speaker 2: went on to be a producer of partnership with so 1843 01:34:51,640 --> 01:34:55,040 Speaker 2: many people. We would have had such a great career 1844 01:34:55,080 --> 01:34:58,160 Speaker 2: together like that. But Pete's is such a great guy, 1845 01:34:58,320 --> 01:35:03,240 Speaker 2: such a great great and he's you know, he he's 1846 01:35:03,280 --> 01:35:05,920 Speaker 2: happy to just go to the studio, same studio every day. 1847 01:35:06,080 --> 01:35:08,600 Speaker 2: An engineer, he's a brilliant engineer. He doesn't have the 1848 01:35:08,640 --> 01:35:10,640 Speaker 2: pressure of anything. He could just go in into it 1849 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:13,519 Speaker 2: and that was what he loved the most. So then 1850 01:35:13,560 --> 01:35:17,960 Speaker 2: he moved to Nashville and he's a great engineer. Jason Aldine, 1851 01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:19,960 Speaker 2: I think he does his records and it just goes 1852 01:35:20,000 --> 01:35:22,479 Speaker 2: the same studio, comes in at ten o'clock in the morning, 1853 01:35:22,560 --> 01:35:26,440 Speaker 2: leaves it six or whenever he does it, and yeah, 1854 01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:27,200 Speaker 2: it was still there. 1855 01:35:28,320 --> 01:35:30,280 Speaker 1: And what about we Belong? How do you end up 1856 01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:32,360 Speaker 1: recording that we belong? 1857 01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:36,719 Speaker 2: It came as an acoustic demo with just acoustic guitar 1858 01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:40,240 Speaker 2: and vocal, and Patricia heard it and she goes, I 1859 01:35:40,280 --> 01:35:42,400 Speaker 2: think I think this could be a hit. We can 1860 01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:45,000 Speaker 2: make a hit with this. I go, I don't know. 1861 01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:46,920 Speaker 2: I know, I'm not getting it. I'm not hearing it yet. 1862 01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:49,479 Speaker 2: I got I got the I get it, I get 1863 01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:51,240 Speaker 2: the course, I get it, but I'm not I don't 1864 01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,559 Speaker 2: know yet. I don't know yet. And then and she said, 1865 01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:56,120 Speaker 2: I know you could do it. You could come up. 1866 01:35:56,160 --> 01:36:01,880 Speaker 2: And then, you know, thanks to Pete in my love 1867 01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:11,519 Speaker 2: of everything he does and his use of of rhythm, sequence, rhythm, 1868 01:36:11,560 --> 01:36:14,920 Speaker 2: whether it's Bob O'Reilly or you know, any of that stuff, 1869 01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:18,599 Speaker 2: I'm thinking maybe I should have like a fast repeating thing, 1870 01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:21,640 Speaker 2: you know, that up something that would change. So I 1871 01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:23,960 Speaker 2: had this super prime time unit was a delay unit, 1872 01:36:24,000 --> 01:36:27,600 Speaker 2: and I played one chord on it. Oh, Charlie, I 1873 01:36:27,600 --> 01:36:29,320 Speaker 2: think he was a keyboard player. I played this one 1874 01:36:29,400 --> 01:36:31,400 Speaker 2: chord and I took these knobs and I start switching 1875 01:36:31,400 --> 01:36:35,519 Speaker 2: the delays up to create this kind of hypnotic delay part. 1876 01:36:36,000 --> 01:36:39,760 Speaker 2: And that gave me the idea of Okay, now I 1877 01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:44,000 Speaker 2: can develop this into something different and and that's and 1878 01:36:44,040 --> 01:36:46,639 Speaker 2: that's how that's from that point I went, okay, now 1879 01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:48,240 Speaker 2: I can develop this song properly. 1880 01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:53,320 Speaker 1: So okay. Ultimately, Pat's hits dry up, as they do 1881 01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:57,400 Speaker 1: for everybody. But what was the experience for you and Pat? 1882 01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:00,160 Speaker 2: In what regard. 1883 01:37:00,720 --> 01:37:05,400 Speaker 1: Did you feel that the record company let you down? 1884 01:37:05,880 --> 01:37:08,400 Speaker 1: Do you feel that the records were good enough and 1885 01:37:08,520 --> 01:37:11,679 Speaker 1: not promoted? Do you feel that somehow you weren't nailing 1886 01:37:11,720 --> 01:37:16,200 Speaker 1: it anymore? Did an executive leave? You know, people usually 1887 01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:16,879 Speaker 1: have a story. 1888 01:37:17,479 --> 01:37:20,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, we kind of got We kind of got over it. 1889 01:37:21,160 --> 01:37:24,719 Speaker 2: You know. It wasn't the record company's fault, nobody's fault. 1890 01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:27,760 Speaker 2: All it was us that we got it was too 1891 01:37:27,800 --> 01:37:30,400 Speaker 2: long doing the same thing, and I, you know, really 1892 01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:32,360 Speaker 2: I tried to mix it up as best I could, 1893 01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:34,559 Speaker 2: different genres and everything else. And it wasn't until the 1894 01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:37,799 Speaker 2: True Love record. I've been trying to do a swing blues, 1895 01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,360 Speaker 2: jump blues record for years. So we were in a 1896 01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:44,400 Speaker 2: port of renegotiating the record deal, and I says, why 1897 01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:47,920 Speaker 2: do we do it like a jump blues record. I 1898 01:37:47,960 --> 01:37:49,840 Speaker 2: heard this great record by the Room full of Blues 1899 01:37:49,840 --> 01:37:52,240 Speaker 2: with Big Joe TURNERU, I said me, if we can 1900 01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:55,320 Speaker 2: capture that kind of sound and the roof flow are 1901 01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:58,080 Speaker 2: great because they played the horse way behind the beat 1902 01:37:58,120 --> 01:38:01,519 Speaker 2: and John Rossy phenomenal drummer, really fattens that thing up. 1903 01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:05,880 Speaker 2: It's a great feel, and that's what we wanted to 1904 01:38:05,960 --> 01:38:08,800 Speaker 2: change it. We weren't interested in just keep doing pop 1905 01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,080 Speaker 2: songs as hits, and we wanted to do others, something, 1906 01:38:11,160 --> 01:38:13,719 Speaker 2: something different. And I was producing so many other people 1907 01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:17,679 Speaker 2: at the time. I was all over the place, Steve Forbert, jeez, 1908 01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:20,439 Speaker 2: I can't even think of you know, the del Lords, 1909 01:38:20,880 --> 01:38:23,760 Speaker 2: two albums for the Delords, Beth Hart. I mean, I 1910 01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:27,280 Speaker 2: was all over the place, and that was at least 1911 01:38:27,560 --> 01:38:31,800 Speaker 2: feeding me and Patrician didn't Carris and she wasn't sure 1912 01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:34,320 Speaker 2: she could be able to do a swing. Recognizays, yeah, 1913 01:38:34,439 --> 01:38:37,040 Speaker 2: you can listen to Big may Bell. You can be 1914 01:38:37,160 --> 01:38:40,800 Speaker 2: Big may Bell on this. You got it right. So 1915 01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:45,360 Speaker 2: that changed it. So from that point moving forward, we 1916 01:38:45,360 --> 01:38:49,879 Speaker 2: were okay. 1917 01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:53,759 Speaker 1: So you're producing records, jamaking records with Pat pat stops 1918 01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:57,280 Speaker 1: having hits. What happens with your production career. 1919 01:38:58,640 --> 01:39:00,120 Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of what was going on at 1920 01:39:00,120 --> 01:39:02,760 Speaker 2: that time. I think I was still producing people. I 1921 01:39:02,800 --> 01:39:08,439 Speaker 2: was writing, writing a lot. And the thing about writing 1922 01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:10,720 Speaker 2: is you write and if you collect it, which I 1923 01:39:10,720 --> 01:39:12,840 Speaker 2: always did, whether it was at that machine, it has said, 1924 01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:17,559 Speaker 2: whatever those parts, if they're good and they have life, 1925 01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:21,280 Speaker 2: they'll live forever. Right. They're melodies right there, there are words, 1926 01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:24,479 Speaker 2: you know whatever. You have, not full songs, but you 1927 01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:25,840 Speaker 2: have those parts. So I was doing a lot of that. 1928 01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:27,720 Speaker 2: But I got to think of the time I did 1929 01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:31,880 Speaker 2: some film composing. Patrisia was kind of worn out, you know, 1930 01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:34,679 Speaker 2: you know, the same routine over and over again, trying 1931 01:39:34,680 --> 01:39:37,720 Speaker 2: to be part of that machine. And you know, we 1932 01:39:37,760 --> 01:39:41,439 Speaker 2: didn't really we really didn't want to continue. Basically, she 1933 01:39:41,479 --> 01:39:43,759 Speaker 2: didn't want to continue with that. So I'd produce other people, 1934 01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:46,200 Speaker 2: like I said, film scoring and work on other things. 1935 01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,040 Speaker 1: Well how'd you get the film scoring gigs? 1936 01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:51,760 Speaker 2: Just from a couple of different directors, you know, they said, 1937 01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:55,080 Speaker 2: you know, hey, you should be doing film scores. I said, okay, yeah, sure, 1938 01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:57,360 Speaker 2: I'll do that. In fact, I got one coming up 1939 01:39:57,400 --> 01:40:03,200 Speaker 2: now this director Jeff Kramer, who's a great director. So 1940 01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:06,000 Speaker 2: that's going to be happening sometime later this after later 1941 01:40:06,040 --> 01:40:06,439 Speaker 2: this year. 1942 01:40:08,280 --> 01:40:09,960 Speaker 1: So do you like film scoring? 1943 01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:14,559 Speaker 2: I do? I do. I I like the usage of 1944 01:40:14,600 --> 01:40:19,080 Speaker 2: different instruments. I like the palette. I like to create 1945 01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:23,800 Speaker 2: for like a film score. I like to create the 1946 01:40:24,000 --> 01:40:27,840 Speaker 2: so called band, whether you'll be an upright bass player, 1947 01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:33,640 Speaker 2: you know, a trumpet player, small kit drums, maybe just 1948 01:40:33,640 --> 01:40:37,200 Speaker 2: acoustic guitars, electric or violin or quartet, all different things 1949 01:40:37,240 --> 01:40:38,599 Speaker 2: like that. I want to mix it up a little 1950 01:40:38,600 --> 01:40:41,439 Speaker 2: bit and try to get the emotion whichever the film 1951 01:40:41,520 --> 01:40:44,400 Speaker 2: is explaining or talking to me to do. So yeah, 1952 01:40:44,400 --> 01:40:46,479 Speaker 2: I do like that, and I love I love writing. 1953 01:40:46,560 --> 01:40:51,080 Speaker 2: So writing writing moves everything forward to me. 1954 01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:56,040 Speaker 1: At some point it goes from being Pat Bennittar to 1955 01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:59,840 Speaker 1: Pat bennetts Ar and Neil Giraldo. How does that happen? 1956 01:41:00,760 --> 01:41:05,800 Speaker 2: That happens because Patricia, it's not it's not something she 1957 01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:12,080 Speaker 2: was guilty about, but she she felt so much of 1958 01:41:12,400 --> 01:41:15,080 Speaker 2: the career that we did really was a partnership. You know, 1959 01:41:15,120 --> 01:41:18,080 Speaker 2: you have you have so many bands out there that 1960 01:41:18,080 --> 01:41:22,200 Speaker 2: that whatever they are, you know, there's usually one person 1961 01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:25,160 Speaker 2: in the band or two people in a band does 1962 01:41:25,479 --> 01:41:29,479 Speaker 2: everything and controls there, you know, their dynamic controls, not 1963 01:41:29,600 --> 01:41:33,960 Speaker 2: control wrong word musically makes it all kind of flow. 1964 01:41:34,080 --> 01:41:38,040 Speaker 2: And she knows, uh what I put into it and 1965 01:41:38,080 --> 01:41:39,880 Speaker 2: what I did. But see, early on, for me, I 1966 01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:43,240 Speaker 2: followed the Truman thing. You know, you be amazed at 1967 01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:44,920 Speaker 2: what you can accomplish if you don't care about who 1968 01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:46,880 Speaker 2: gets a credit. And I didn't care. I was just 1969 01:41:46,960 --> 01:41:51,400 Speaker 2: happy to do the work that I did. And Patricia 1970 01:41:51,439 --> 01:41:54,000 Speaker 2: didn't like how I was treated by the record company 1971 01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:57,880 Speaker 2: because at times they weren't very kind, uh, you know 1972 01:41:57,960 --> 01:42:00,679 Speaker 2: to me and things. And but it was okay. I mean, 1973 01:42:01,280 --> 01:42:03,759 Speaker 2: if you're winning, it's like if you're on a football 1974 01:42:03,760 --> 01:42:06,720 Speaker 2: team or baseball whatever it is. If you're winning, that 1975 01:42:06,800 --> 01:42:10,439 Speaker 2: changes everything. That's all you care about. Right, So she 1976 01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:12,360 Speaker 2: just wanted to be partnering with that we could do 1977 01:42:12,840 --> 01:42:15,080 Speaker 2: more things with it. It just it just kind of 1978 01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:19,719 Speaker 2: explain what it was from the very beginning. And actually 1979 01:42:20,200 --> 01:42:22,760 Speaker 2: her thing too was she never really wanted to be 1980 01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:27,600 Speaker 2: the girl, like just the girl singer, like every what 1981 01:42:27,720 --> 01:42:30,320 Speaker 2: the record companies were doing. You know, there were no 1982 01:42:30,479 --> 01:42:33,599 Speaker 2: girls in bands. There were a few, but not a lot, right, 1983 01:42:34,040 --> 01:42:36,160 Speaker 2: And when that happened. If you didn't have a girl 1984 01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:37,920 Speaker 2: in a band, you couldn't get signed, you couldn't get 1985 01:42:37,960 --> 01:42:40,360 Speaker 2: a record deal. That's when you saw all the influx 1986 01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:43,800 Speaker 2: of all these girl driven bands that happened. Right, So 1987 01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:46,800 Speaker 2: that's all was so I change it and says, okay, sure, 1988 01:42:46,840 --> 01:42:47,479 Speaker 2: whatever you want. 1989 01:42:55,439 --> 01:42:59,799 Speaker 1: So how was it raising kids as a musician? 1990 01:43:03,400 --> 01:43:07,280 Speaker 2: It was great. I mean, you know, we'd watch the 1991 01:43:07,360 --> 01:43:10,839 Speaker 2: Laker games and when the kids were younger, and I'd 1992 01:43:10,920 --> 01:43:13,120 Speaker 2: have a dat machine run and I'd be writing songs 1993 01:43:13,160 --> 01:43:15,559 Speaker 2: in the background and you would be hearing check her 1994 01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:17,559 Speaker 2: and talk about how they make plays. You know, somebody 1995 01:43:17,640 --> 01:43:21,120 Speaker 2: scoring and you know the kids are laughing and I'm 1996 01:43:21,120 --> 01:43:24,760 Speaker 2: writing songs. Yeah, it was easy. I mean we took 1997 01:43:24,800 --> 01:43:27,960 Speaker 2: them on every tour, every single one, all the time. 1998 01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:30,439 Speaker 1: Well what if they were in. 1999 01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:33,960 Speaker 2: School and then we did that and they would we 2000 01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:35,160 Speaker 2: were a tutor. 2001 01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:39,360 Speaker 1: Doctor, And what are they up to today? 2002 01:43:40,880 --> 01:43:44,920 Speaker 2: My youngest Hannah is a tremendous songwriter. My god, she's tremendous, 2003 01:43:45,080 --> 01:43:49,439 Speaker 2: a great actress as well. She's It's the blessing and 2004 01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:52,559 Speaker 2: the curse to this is I love children. I want 2005 01:43:52,600 --> 01:43:58,200 Speaker 2: to have children badly. I thought on Sunday's Italian Day. 2006 01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:00,679 Speaker 2: You know, you're gonna break bread, gonna have the family, 2007 01:44:00,680 --> 01:44:02,960 Speaker 2: They're gonna eat for like five hours long. It's gonna 2008 01:44:02,960 --> 01:44:06,639 Speaker 2: be great. Great kids come over, Hinda walks through the door, Papa, 2009 01:44:06,640 --> 01:44:09,519 Speaker 2: can we go in the studio? It's like, oh, man, 2010 01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:14,160 Speaker 2: can we just sit around and relax today. So but 2011 01:44:14,240 --> 01:44:17,599 Speaker 2: it's great. And my oldest daughter is really talented as well. 2012 01:44:18,520 --> 01:44:20,679 Speaker 2: She's the one that has the three babies, three grand 2013 01:44:20,680 --> 01:44:24,680 Speaker 2: babies that we have, which she's really talented too, with 2014 01:44:24,960 --> 01:44:28,679 Speaker 2: art and a lot of different things, planning, she does these. 2015 01:44:29,160 --> 01:44:33,559 Speaker 2: She's just she's a she's got a phenomenal eye. So yeah, 2016 01:44:33,600 --> 01:44:34,120 Speaker 2: it's great. 2017 01:44:35,600 --> 01:44:38,559 Speaker 1: So how much do you and Pat work now I'm 2018 01:44:38,600 --> 01:44:39,479 Speaker 1: talking about on the road. 2019 01:44:40,200 --> 01:44:43,559 Speaker 2: On the road a couple well, let's say maybe a 2020 01:44:43,560 --> 01:44:45,360 Speaker 2: couple month and a half or something in the summer. 2021 01:44:45,520 --> 01:44:47,960 Speaker 2: Maybe there's a month in the fall, month in the spring. 2022 01:44:50,000 --> 01:44:52,080 Speaker 2: That's the for me personally, it's the only time I 2023 01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:54,439 Speaker 2: can let my brain rest a little bit and I 2024 01:44:54,439 --> 01:44:56,320 Speaker 2: could be sort of a teenager while I'm out there. 2025 01:44:56,439 --> 01:45:00,680 Speaker 2: You know, I can just play instruments and not have 2026 01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:06,519 Speaker 2: to create anything, and just you know, I you know, 2027 01:45:08,000 --> 01:45:09,960 Speaker 2: I don't know where songs care. I don't know how 2028 01:45:09,960 --> 01:45:12,599 Speaker 2: this even works, and nobody really does and nobody can 2029 01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,080 Speaker 2: really tell it. But I'll tell you this though. It's 2030 01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:20,360 Speaker 2: an obsessive compulsive disorder because it never leaves, so totally 2031 01:45:20,439 --> 01:45:24,400 Speaker 2: every minute of my life is writing something, right. I mean, 2032 01:45:24,439 --> 01:45:26,559 Speaker 2: you're a great writer, Bob. I mean the way you 2033 01:45:26,600 --> 01:45:28,840 Speaker 2: write it. You cover so many things, and when I 2034 01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:31,880 Speaker 2: read it, it's like this guy is like writing these 2035 01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:36,240 Speaker 2: amazing things. Forget the subject matter. It's brilliant writing, right. 2036 01:45:36,320 --> 01:45:39,320 Speaker 2: So you can't stop either. You know, when I wake up, 2037 01:45:39,560 --> 01:45:41,240 Speaker 2: I want to be wake Why do I want to 2038 01:45:41,240 --> 01:45:43,400 Speaker 2: be awake? Because I want to start writing and it's 2039 01:45:43,439 --> 01:45:47,840 Speaker 2: a sickness, so I have. I'm about ready to do 2040 01:45:48,600 --> 01:45:53,679 Speaker 2: something profound in a career because I've waited a long time. 2041 01:45:54,200 --> 01:45:58,439 Speaker 2: I may be doing a solo record with of course 2042 01:45:58,479 --> 01:46:01,799 Speaker 2: all original songs, but different guest stars, a different singers 2043 01:46:01,800 --> 01:46:04,320 Speaker 2: and different people on it. That's all about the songs, 2044 01:46:04,320 --> 01:46:06,759 Speaker 2: of production and you know the music. 2045 01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:11,960 Speaker 1: So needless to say, the landscape has changed dramatically in 2046 01:46:12,080 --> 01:46:18,240 Speaker 1: forty years. There were fewer records. Record companies were powerful. 2047 01:46:18,400 --> 01:46:21,240 Speaker 1: If you have an established name, you got a shot. 2048 01:46:22,240 --> 01:46:26,600 Speaker 1: Now you can be a legendary act from the seventies 2049 01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:30,559 Speaker 1: maybe eighties. You can put your heart and soul into 2050 01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:34,760 Speaker 1: a record and it falls flat, irrelevant of the quality. 2051 01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:39,120 Speaker 1: You know, how is that relative to your incentive to 2052 01:46:39,200 --> 01:46:39,559 Speaker 1: do it? 2053 01:46:40,160 --> 01:46:43,240 Speaker 2: I don't care. I don't care at all. Honestly, I 2054 01:46:43,280 --> 01:46:46,120 Speaker 2: don't care, because just because it falls flat doesn't mean 2055 01:46:46,120 --> 01:46:50,120 Speaker 2: it stays flat. Alls it takes is one ear, one 2056 01:46:50,160 --> 01:46:52,560 Speaker 2: listened somewhere that kind of goes, wait a minute, this 2057 01:46:52,960 --> 01:46:58,479 Speaker 2: could be something. Listen the history of the things that 2058 01:46:58,520 --> 01:47:00,880 Speaker 2: I've done. Here's I have a fought be about this too. 2059 01:47:00,920 --> 01:47:02,479 Speaker 2: If you listen to a record the first time you 2060 01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:06,280 Speaker 2: hear the record, if you love it as a listener, 2061 01:47:07,160 --> 01:47:10,040 Speaker 2: that's a problem. I want somebody to listen to it 2062 01:47:10,120 --> 01:47:12,479 Speaker 2: and go, hm, I don't know if I'm getting this. 2063 01:47:12,800 --> 01:47:16,840 Speaker 2: Second listen maybe, and by the fifth listen, you're going 2064 01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:19,320 Speaker 2: I can live with this now, you know. I love this. 2065 01:47:19,479 --> 01:47:21,759 Speaker 2: And that's It's like I said in the very beginning 2066 01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:23,960 Speaker 2: we're talking, is that it doesn't matter where you're at. 2067 01:47:23,960 --> 01:47:25,479 Speaker 2: If you have a great song, it will be heard. 2068 01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:28,479 Speaker 2: It'll work. And here's the thing that I don't think 2069 01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:32,439 Speaker 2: you know. The the thing the rock and roll or 2070 01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:34,720 Speaker 2: rock that word or whatever you want to do with that. 2071 01:47:35,280 --> 01:47:43,960 Speaker 2: I don't think there's a way to rejuvenate that. Bring 2072 01:47:44,040 --> 01:47:48,920 Speaker 2: back phil Oaks. Try to try to mix genres, try 2073 01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:53,880 Speaker 2: to have something that has meaning and mix things up. 2074 01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:57,920 Speaker 2: Don't be afraid, right, I mean, if you're not brave, 2075 01:47:58,040 --> 01:48:02,280 Speaker 2: you have nothing to lose. I mean, you know, huh, 2076 01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:04,960 Speaker 2: you know, I just I think it's I have hope, 2077 01:48:05,120 --> 01:48:07,559 Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I gotta I gotta stop for a second. 2078 01:48:08,240 --> 01:48:11,799 Speaker 1: You mentioned phil Oaks. Correct, why phil Oaks? 2079 01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:17,680 Speaker 2: Because you know the that genre, you know, the the 2080 01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:22,679 Speaker 2: protest music. I mean that that was that was rocking 2081 01:48:22,800 --> 01:48:26,760 Speaker 2: its own self. Like why can't you open up, you know, 2082 01:48:26,920 --> 01:48:31,240 Speaker 2: like where his head was at, find out what that is? 2083 01:48:32,200 --> 01:48:37,439 Speaker 2: Speak that language. Mix it with Howland Wolf across a 2084 01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:41,439 Speaker 2: cross cross gender that not grot wrong words, all right, 2085 01:48:41,479 --> 01:48:45,000 Speaker 2: I mean that word across like mix up things so 2086 01:48:45,760 --> 01:48:48,800 Speaker 2: different that you have to question, what are you listening to? 2087 01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:50,679 Speaker 2: Do you know what I'm saying? 2088 01:48:50,880 --> 01:48:51,600 Speaker 1: I know exactly what? 2089 01:48:52,600 --> 01:48:58,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, uh great, you know dre Oh my god, 2090 01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:01,760 Speaker 2: that's rock news. If you look at rock as being 2091 01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:05,960 Speaker 2: the thing that you know defines a generation, you know, 2092 01:49:06,439 --> 01:49:09,200 Speaker 2: the stuff he did was phenomenal, But why don't you 2093 01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:13,839 Speaker 2: take uh, you know, like blues Junior kimbroke that vibe 2094 01:49:13,880 --> 01:49:17,840 Speaker 2: that really like scary. Oh, I don't know what the 2095 01:49:17,880 --> 01:49:21,800 Speaker 2: word scary blues Mississippi blues thing and put it with 2096 01:49:21,920 --> 01:49:27,479 Speaker 2: phil Oaks. You know, phil Oaks wrote beautiful songs with 2097 01:49:27,600 --> 01:49:30,080 Speaker 2: power Changes is a beautiful melody, one of the most 2098 01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:37,000 Speaker 2: prettiest melodies ever written. I mean, and this his mind was, 2099 01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:42,280 Speaker 2: it was pure, he was real, you know, So, uh, 2100 01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:45,559 Speaker 2: is there something there? I think? Don't be afraid? I mean, 2101 01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:46,640 Speaker 2: I think, I. 2102 01:49:48,560 --> 01:49:48,840 Speaker 1: Think. 2103 01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:53,080 Speaker 2: Uh, I personally, I don't have fear of failure in 2104 01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:55,519 Speaker 2: that I don't. I don't have fear of releasing something 2105 01:49:55,520 --> 01:49:57,680 Speaker 2: and somebody goes, who cares it gets thirty views? I 2106 01:49:57,680 --> 01:50:01,720 Speaker 2: don't care because if I know it's good, it's all 2107 01:50:01,840 --> 01:50:04,920 Speaker 2: matters to me. I'm not and I don't think i'll be. 2108 01:50:06,880 --> 01:50:09,799 Speaker 2: I'm not the renaissance man, and I'm not gonna change 2109 01:50:09,800 --> 01:50:12,120 Speaker 2: the way people listen to music of the way sounds 2110 01:50:12,160 --> 01:50:14,080 Speaker 2: are going to be completely different. That's not gonna happen, 2111 01:50:14,720 --> 01:50:17,280 Speaker 2: but it's going to be interesting and you may be 2112 01:50:17,280 --> 01:50:19,360 Speaker 2: a little shocked what it sounds like. 2113 01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:24,240 Speaker 1: So you're gonna make this solo album. I Am I 2114 01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:29,240 Speaker 1: Am okay human. Pat also wrote a children's book. How 2115 01:50:29,240 --> 01:50:30,080 Speaker 1: did that come to be? 2116 01:50:30,479 --> 01:50:33,920 Speaker 2: Correct? Yeah, they got a hold of us about writing 2117 01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:38,559 Speaker 2: a grandparents book. It was the love the I love Caa, 2118 01:50:38,640 --> 01:50:41,599 Speaker 2: I love Rob Light and everybody up there. They've been 2119 01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:45,200 Speaker 2: really good for us and really nice people and creative people. 2120 01:50:45,400 --> 01:50:47,519 Speaker 2: And we have grand babies and we love them to death, right, 2121 01:50:47,640 --> 01:50:51,080 Speaker 2: so why not write a book about grand babies? Just 2122 01:50:51,080 --> 01:50:54,200 Speaker 2: have fun, you know, just something something that people can 2123 01:50:54,760 --> 01:50:57,320 Speaker 2: look at. You know. The the image of a grandparent 2124 01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:01,040 Speaker 2: used to be that old. You know your grandparents, do you? 2125 01:51:01,040 --> 01:51:05,600 Speaker 2: You remember then your grandparents see you do? Right? So 2126 01:51:06,280 --> 01:51:08,479 Speaker 2: that's not the way it is now, you know. And 2127 01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:12,040 Speaker 2: here's the other thing I talk about too. Nobody ever 2128 01:51:12,920 --> 01:51:15,400 Speaker 2: thought about what's going to happen to all these rock 2129 01:51:15,439 --> 01:51:20,040 Speaker 2: and roll musicians with their health going forward? What's going 2130 01:51:20,080 --> 01:51:23,600 Speaker 2: to happen? You know, you got Pete Trampton with his 2131 01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:27,400 Speaker 2: terrible thing, you Phil Collins, you got serious issues with 2132 01:51:27,439 --> 01:51:32,080 Speaker 2: their health. So for me, I'm looking for Kobe Bryant 2133 01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:36,639 Speaker 2: to be my example a person that had in order 2134 01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:39,759 Speaker 2: to be a musician in this age group in the sixties, 2135 01:51:39,760 --> 01:51:42,280 Speaker 2: seventies and eighties. You have to think of yourself like 2136 01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:46,360 Speaker 2: Kobe Bryant, as an athlete because you can't do those 2137 01:51:46,360 --> 01:51:49,960 Speaker 2: things you did when you were younger. You have to 2138 01:51:50,080 --> 01:51:53,080 Speaker 2: change your diet, you have to exercise. You got all 2139 01:51:53,160 --> 01:51:55,439 Speaker 2: these things that are and you have to be sound mind. 2140 01:51:56,880 --> 01:52:01,839 Speaker 2: That helps everything you're writing your life. 2141 01:52:02,120 --> 01:52:06,400 Speaker 1: Okay, you and Pat were inducted into the Rock and 2142 01:52:06,479 --> 01:52:09,960 Speaker 1: Roll Hall of Fame. That has to feel good. But 2143 01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:15,840 Speaker 1: do you think Pat gets the recognition and attention she deserves. 2144 01:52:15,960 --> 01:52:18,920 Speaker 1: Let me use sort of an equivalent thing. Yeah, Stevie 2145 01:52:19,040 --> 01:52:22,360 Speaker 1: Nick she has very much has a persona, but as 2146 01:52:22,400 --> 01:52:29,200 Speaker 1: a solo act, Pat has more hits and Stevie's been 2147 01:52:29,280 --> 01:52:33,880 Speaker 1: embraced by younger generations. You know, what do you think 2148 01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:39,000 Speaker 1: about this Pat's place in the firmament and whether there's 2149 01:52:39,200 --> 01:52:44,519 Speaker 1: you know, runway to get younger generations on board. Yeah. 2150 01:52:44,600 --> 01:52:47,120 Speaker 2: I think what we see usually is we have a 2151 01:52:47,160 --> 01:52:49,639 Speaker 2: young collection of people that come to see us all 2152 01:52:49,680 --> 01:52:53,680 Speaker 2: the time, and it's evident in our lives. Maybe not 2153 01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:55,960 Speaker 2: in the public sector or whatever you're looking at there, 2154 01:52:55,960 --> 01:52:59,320 Speaker 2: but in real life. And the parents that bring the 2155 01:52:59,400 --> 01:53:02,679 Speaker 2: kids who are like nine years old, thirteen, they're they're 2156 01:53:02,680 --> 01:53:06,559 Speaker 2: in it. They're there, and and there's boys, young boys 2157 01:53:06,600 --> 01:53:10,840 Speaker 2: that are musicians that are learning the stuff that I've done. 2158 01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:13,679 Speaker 2: And there's a lot of that. But for Patricia, she's 2159 01:53:13,720 --> 01:53:18,200 Speaker 2: a defiant person. She's a tough person who worked really 2160 01:53:18,479 --> 01:53:22,120 Speaker 2: really hard. So and she don't give a fuck. I 2161 01:53:22,200 --> 01:53:26,000 Speaker 2: gotta tell you. Her attitude is like, I don't give 2162 01:53:26,040 --> 01:53:30,040 Speaker 2: a fuck. She don't care. She's defiant. I love it. 2163 01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:32,640 Speaker 2: I love that. I love that she's like that. She 2164 01:53:32,680 --> 01:53:35,280 Speaker 2: don't care. So she don't care about that either. She 2165 01:53:35,280 --> 01:53:38,760 Speaker 2: don't think about this person getting this person. I think 2166 01:53:38,800 --> 01:53:42,120 Speaker 2: the only thing about that rock Call thing was I 2167 01:53:42,160 --> 01:53:48,120 Speaker 2: think it takes that long, really like it has to 2168 01:53:48,160 --> 01:53:50,240 Speaker 2: take that long. Well, then you got to look at 2169 01:53:50,360 --> 01:53:54,320 Speaker 2: who's who's running it. Now, you know, Greg Harris a 2170 01:53:54,360 --> 01:53:57,600 Speaker 2: great guy. These are great people. John Sykes go and 2171 01:53:57,680 --> 01:54:00,320 Speaker 2: guess guess what, John Sykes. She said, drive me around 2172 01:54:00,320 --> 01:54:02,360 Speaker 2: in his station wagon. And I was Rick Darenter to 2173 01:54:02,479 --> 01:54:08,400 Speaker 2: to radio stations. He was the guy when I saw him. 2174 01:54:08,439 --> 01:54:11,360 Speaker 2: He go, Okay, do you remember in nineteen seventy eight 2175 01:54:11,400 --> 01:54:13,840 Speaker 2: I was driving you and Ric Roundry. I says, sure 2176 01:54:13,840 --> 01:54:16,719 Speaker 2: I do, John, Yes, I do. You did good? 2177 01:54:19,240 --> 01:54:24,519 Speaker 1: Okay? At the Rock and Roll induction ceremony. You did 2178 01:54:24,640 --> 01:54:29,800 Speaker 1: most of the talking and Pat was relatively silent. Is 2179 01:54:29,920 --> 01:54:37,880 Speaker 1: that your relationship is that Pat? Uh? 2180 01:54:38,160 --> 01:54:44,520 Speaker 2: Nah? Well, no, I do not really, I don't know. 2181 01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:47,120 Speaker 2: That's a tough question to ask, a tough question to answer. 2182 01:54:47,200 --> 01:54:53,320 Speaker 2: I mean, on certain subjects, I definitely are I'm the 2183 01:54:53,360 --> 01:54:56,000 Speaker 2: one that's gonna do the talking about other things like 2184 01:54:56,000 --> 01:54:59,400 Speaker 2: if we go out with friends or like that she 2185 01:54:59,480 --> 01:55:01,600 Speaker 2: does all the time. Can I just listen? I can't 2186 01:55:01,600 --> 01:55:03,280 Speaker 2: get a word in. She just talks. 2187 01:55:03,320 --> 01:55:05,640 Speaker 1: But she was. 2188 01:55:06,800 --> 01:55:10,280 Speaker 2: She she wanted my voice to be heard too, you know. 2189 01:55:10,400 --> 01:55:15,080 Speaker 2: She I support a lot of things. I support support children, 2190 01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:18,040 Speaker 2: I support schools, music education, I support a lot of 2191 01:55:18,080 --> 01:55:19,920 Speaker 2: different things. A lot of people don't know because I've 2192 01:55:19,920 --> 01:55:22,800 Speaker 2: been so quiet. To your point early on in our 2193 01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,800 Speaker 2: conversation today, social media, you should be out there. You 2194 01:55:25,840 --> 01:55:27,720 Speaker 2: should be doing that stuff. I don't do it. I 2195 01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:30,800 Speaker 2: should do more. I definitely should do more, without a doubt. 2196 01:55:31,880 --> 01:55:35,360 Speaker 2: So it was I don't know, I don't know why. 2197 01:55:35,760 --> 01:55:37,720 Speaker 2: Just she just she was happy just to kind of 2198 01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:40,680 Speaker 2: be there. And she said, go ahead and spider talk, 2199 01:55:40,840 --> 01:55:42,200 Speaker 2: do whatever you want, you know. 2200 01:55:42,400 --> 01:55:48,360 Speaker 1: So okay, as I said earlier, you're a very verbal, friendly, 2201 01:55:48,520 --> 01:55:52,600 Speaker 1: nice guy. Great hang. But you talk about growing up 2202 01:55:53,360 --> 01:56:00,480 Speaker 1: with a gooraphobia and other mental maladies. Yeah, we're seeing 2203 01:56:00,520 --> 01:56:05,000 Speaker 1: me now telling your story. But do you ever get depressed? 2204 01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:06,760 Speaker 1: You ever have moods? 2205 01:56:07,320 --> 01:56:09,280 Speaker 2: Sure, I get I get it, but I don't have 2206 01:56:09,440 --> 01:56:14,800 Speaker 2: anything like I had before, not at all, nothing like that. Nothing. Yeah. 2207 01:56:14,960 --> 01:56:22,280 Speaker 2: I sometimes I'm afraid of moods because I don't really 2208 01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:24,440 Speaker 2: get that angry bob. You know. But if I get 2209 01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:28,360 Speaker 2: angry about something, I have a little bit fear because 2210 01:56:28,760 --> 01:56:33,480 Speaker 2: if somebody, somebody harms somebody emotionally, somebody else, I go 2211 01:56:33,560 --> 01:56:37,440 Speaker 2: into Anthony gerald on my fatherland and I will put 2212 01:56:37,520 --> 01:56:39,720 Speaker 2: my head, my fist or concrete if I have to, 2213 01:56:40,040 --> 01:56:43,360 Speaker 2: I'll protect my own, no question. Or if somebody's bullying. 2214 01:56:43,920 --> 01:56:48,400 Speaker 2: I hate bullying. I hate faceless cowards. I hate all 2215 01:56:48,440 --> 01:56:51,360 Speaker 2: that stuff. Don't like it. You know that don't get me? 2216 01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:55,200 Speaker 2: So maybe I maybe I choose to be silent in 2217 01:56:55,200 --> 01:56:57,280 Speaker 2: that way because I don't want to deal with the ugliness. 2218 01:56:57,480 --> 01:56:59,600 Speaker 2: You know, I'll write about it. You'll see it in 2219 01:56:59,600 --> 01:57:03,120 Speaker 2: the New Star songs that I'm writing. Is there's something there, 2220 01:57:03,720 --> 01:57:04,320 Speaker 2: you'll hear it. 2221 01:57:04,440 --> 01:57:08,240 Speaker 1: Okay, But you portray your life. There's a lot of 2222 01:57:08,360 --> 01:57:11,160 Speaker 1: solitary time. You wake up at three point thirty in 2223 01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:14,280 Speaker 1: the morning, you never get into dark spaces. 2224 01:57:15,600 --> 01:57:18,720 Speaker 2: I do, I do, but I let. Luckily, I'm able 2225 01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:20,920 Speaker 2: to channel that into writing. I mean, because it's the 2226 01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:24,040 Speaker 2: only way you can let the endorphins take care of depression. 2227 01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:26,440 Speaker 2: You know what it's like when you write something great. 2228 01:57:26,840 --> 01:57:29,160 Speaker 2: I know you you're writing something. You go, damn, that's 2229 01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:31,920 Speaker 2: a good line. Damn I wrote that. That was really good. 2230 01:57:32,040 --> 01:57:32,880 Speaker 2: I know you're doing that. 2231 01:57:33,040 --> 01:57:33,360 Speaker 1: Bob. 2232 01:57:33,960 --> 01:57:34,680 Speaker 2: Well, the funny are you? 2233 01:57:35,040 --> 01:57:39,720 Speaker 1: The funny thing is I can see that people say, oh, 2234 01:57:40,040 --> 01:57:43,120 Speaker 1: nobody knows what a hit is et One of my 2235 01:57:43,200 --> 01:57:46,440 Speaker 1: favorite stories. That's hanging with Al Cooper and he's telling 2236 01:57:46,520 --> 01:57:49,680 Speaker 1: me the story of how he got a call from 2237 01:57:49,760 --> 01:57:53,120 Speaker 1: Ronnie van zandt we have a new record. We do 2238 01:57:53,280 --> 01:57:56,480 Speaker 1: song we want to record. The first album had just 2239 01:57:56,600 --> 01:57:59,160 Speaker 1: come out. He says, come into the studio. They're in Florida, 2240 01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:02,320 Speaker 1: he's in Atlanta, says, come to the studio on Monday, 2241 01:58:02,320 --> 01:58:05,600 Speaker 1: we'll cut it. The record did not come out for 2242 01:58:05,680 --> 01:58:10,320 Speaker 1: a year. It was you know, Sweet Home Alabama. And 2243 01:58:10,400 --> 01:58:12,200 Speaker 1: I said, Al, did you know it was a hit? 2244 01:58:12,440 --> 01:58:19,440 Speaker 1: And he said it was sweet Home Alabama. The people 2245 01:58:19,480 --> 01:58:23,880 Speaker 1: who do something great. You know when you do something great, 2246 01:58:23,920 --> 01:58:27,040 Speaker 1: And that's why I love you talked earlier. You hit 2247 01:58:27,080 --> 01:58:29,080 Speaker 1: me with your best shot of it. You know it, 2248 01:58:29,680 --> 01:58:32,600 Speaker 1: and you bet you try to hit an eleven and 2249 01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:35,720 Speaker 1: you can't hit an eleven on a regular basis. Anybody 2250 01:58:35,720 --> 01:58:38,200 Speaker 1: tells you they can is full of shit. You're never 2251 01:58:38,200 --> 01:58:41,960 Speaker 1: gonna do something shitty, but something that little bit extra. 2252 01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:45,720 Speaker 1: You're searching for it. You know when you do it, 2253 01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:50,760 Speaker 1: and then you're depressed after its over. I listen, by 2254 01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:53,200 Speaker 1: the way, I love Al Cooper. He's a great guy. 2255 01:58:53,360 --> 01:58:56,280 Speaker 1: I love that guy. He's done great, great stuff. But 2256 01:58:56,600 --> 01:59:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, like I said, you know, it's just being trueful. 2257 01:59:00,400 --> 01:59:03,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's all it is. Here's the thing, too, 2258 01:59:03,560 --> 01:59:06,560 Speaker 1: I love the what is it Warren Buffett thing? What 2259 01:59:06,680 --> 01:59:10,640 Speaker 1: he says he says, if if what he uses as 2260 01:59:10,680 --> 01:59:12,440 Speaker 1: a deal, I don't care if it's a deal any 2261 01:59:12,560 --> 01:59:16,240 Speaker 1: this is any subject. But if he says it's like, yeah, 2262 01:59:16,320 --> 01:59:19,920 Speaker 1: that's a really good deal, he says, don't do it. 2263 01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:23,560 Speaker 1: That's a great deal. Don't do it. 2264 01:59:24,440 --> 01:59:27,600 Speaker 2: Oh hell yeah, do it. And so it's the same 2265 01:59:27,600 --> 01:59:30,840 Speaker 2: with a hit. You just know it when I heard 2266 01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:34,160 Speaker 2: When Doves Cry the first time, I went, that's a smash. 2267 01:59:34,280 --> 01:59:40,160 Speaker 2: That's a fantastic song. Different hit, you know, And the 2268 01:59:40,200 --> 01:59:43,320 Speaker 2: things that we've done that were big hits, I knew 2269 01:59:43,320 --> 01:59:47,920 Speaker 2: they were. You can't kid yourself. I know that. You 2270 01:59:47,960 --> 01:59:50,800 Speaker 2: know if somebody like the record companies, So what do 2271 01:59:50,840 --> 01:59:53,440 Speaker 2: you think of this? If you say, yeah, excuse me, 2272 01:59:53,480 --> 01:59:56,640 Speaker 2: I think it's pretty good. That's not a hit. That's 2273 01:59:56,680 --> 02:00:00,400 Speaker 2: not you got to say, oh hell yeah, oh hell yeah. 2274 02:00:00,680 --> 02:00:04,920 Speaker 2: That's why Bob that oh hell yeah song will always 2275 02:00:04,920 --> 02:00:07,960 Speaker 2: get hurt. It will always get hurt. Alls it takes 2276 02:00:08,040 --> 02:00:11,600 Speaker 2: is the right thing, and then it multiplies and multiplies. 2277 02:00:11,640 --> 02:00:14,240 Speaker 2: It's like sickness. It's like a disease. It just keeps 2278 02:00:14,280 --> 02:00:15,560 Speaker 2: going in a positive way. 2279 02:00:16,800 --> 02:00:18,200 Speaker 1: Well, now you're inspiring me. 2280 02:00:19,240 --> 02:00:21,280 Speaker 2: Well hell yeah, I mean I don't have to inspire you. 2281 02:00:21,360 --> 02:00:23,040 Speaker 2: You're a I'm telling you. 2282 02:00:23,040 --> 02:00:23,280 Speaker 1: You know. 2283 02:00:24,080 --> 02:00:26,680 Speaker 2: I love Colin Coward, you know, the sports guy, right 2284 02:00:27,120 --> 02:00:30,120 Speaker 2: because he talks about sports, but then he goes off 2285 02:00:30,240 --> 02:00:35,920 Speaker 2: and talks about other things because sports is real life. 2286 02:00:36,080 --> 02:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Like there's a real life going on right there. And 2287 02:00:38,720 --> 02:00:41,840 Speaker 2: like Bill Cower, similar sort of name, Bill Cowher. I 2288 02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:44,800 Speaker 2: love it. I ran into coach Cower, and I says, 2289 02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:47,240 Speaker 2: you know what, I really loved that. She said, if 2290 02:00:47,240 --> 02:00:50,680 Speaker 2: a player makes a mistake, he pulls them aside and goes. 2291 02:00:50,840 --> 02:00:53,920 Speaker 2: You owe me. The player does good, he comes back, 2292 02:00:53,960 --> 02:00:57,920 Speaker 2: he goes worry even right, So you know these things 2293 02:00:57,960 --> 02:01:00,600 Speaker 2: are all true. I'm telling you that the reason you 2294 02:01:00,840 --> 02:01:03,200 Speaker 2: love to write is you're getting in the doorphin rush 2295 02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:04,840 Speaker 2: because you got a lot of shit wrong with you. 2296 02:01:04,880 --> 02:01:06,480 Speaker 2: I read this stuff. You know, Ah you got you 2297 02:01:06,520 --> 02:01:08,480 Speaker 2: went to the dentist, you went to ah, you got 2298 02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:11,480 Speaker 2: all these things. I've seen you laughing. They can't hear 2299 02:01:11,520 --> 02:01:12,280 Speaker 2: you on the podcast. 2300 02:01:12,560 --> 02:01:15,960 Speaker 1: Say, you know, the funny thing is you're one hundred 2301 02:01:16,160 --> 02:01:20,080 Speaker 1: percent right, and you know these types of things. I 2302 02:01:20,120 --> 02:01:24,120 Speaker 1: talk to my psychiatrist. I know a lot of business 2303 02:01:24,240 --> 02:01:28,000 Speaker 1: people and we're friends. But the people I really could 2304 02:01:28,080 --> 02:01:32,600 Speaker 1: relate to the artists. It's just something different. I could 2305 02:01:32,600 --> 02:01:37,720 Speaker 1: go on and on, but that's about me in any event, Neil, Hell, yeah, 2306 02:01:37,840 --> 02:01:41,120 Speaker 1: it was great talking to you. Great talking to you too. 2307 02:01:41,320 --> 02:01:44,960 Speaker 2: Anytime you need you need any ps psychiatric help, call me. 2308 02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:47,680 Speaker 2: I'll help you through it. As well as I say, 2309 02:01:47,760 --> 02:01:51,960 Speaker 2: you're inspiring me. And I wasn't in the greatest mood earlier. Well, 2310 02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:54,840 Speaker 2: anytime you need to you need to talk, just call me. 2311 02:01:54,880 --> 02:01:57,400 Speaker 2: I'll be happy to talk to you off the record, 2312 02:01:57,480 --> 02:02:00,120 Speaker 2: whatever you want. Man I love what you do of 2313 02:02:00,160 --> 02:02:04,520 Speaker 2: thin song. That's been amazing. Thank you until next time. 2314 02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:28,200 Speaker 2: This is Bob left set H