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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey Therey, Welcome back to the Book of Joe Podcast

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Speaker 1: with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden.

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Speaker 2: Joe, how you doing. We've got one month of this

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Speaker 2: season in the books already.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing well, Tommy, And today is the big day

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Speaker 3: down here in Tampa, because we're going to start heading north,

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Speaker 3: taking a drive back up to the Holy Land, which

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Speaker 3: would be Pennsylvania, and then back to sugar Loaf and

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Speaker 3: have that one of those beautiful, glorious Pennsylvania summers. You're

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Speaker 3: very close in New Jersey is an extension of Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 3: so you know what that feels like. And I'm eager

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Speaker 3: about this. I'm very very excited about it.

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Speaker 1: Well, just for you, we finally rolled out springtime. It's

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Speaker 1: taken a while day here, but it does feel like good.

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Speaker 2: Time a year.

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Speaker 1: But hey, hey Joe, speaking of springtime, it wasn't long

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Speaker 1: before Devin Williams, the closer from the New York Yankees,

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Speaker 1: lost his job.

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Speaker 2: We barely got into not even out of April.

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Speaker 1: He just pitched ten games, only eight innings, and Aaron

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Speaker 1: Boone said, you know what, let's move.

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Speaker 2: You back up, take you out of that closer's role.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk to you, Joe, about the manager's

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Speaker 1: role in this when you make this kind of decision.

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Speaker 1: He's obviously new to the Yankees after the trade from Milwaukee,

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Speaker 1: very small sample size, it was obvious to see how

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Speaker 1: he was struggling, especially with fastball command. His velocity was

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Speaker 1: down a tick, but he basically just could not throw

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Speaker 1: his fastball where he wanted to and just has not

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Speaker 1: been getting swings and misses.

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Speaker 2: So take me through the process here, Joe.

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Speaker 1: If you're a manager, you're seeing a guy first year

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Speaker 1: with the team scuffling a little bit here, but he's

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Speaker 1: only got eight innings, and you say, you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's back you up and keep you out of that role.

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Speaker 1: What goes into that thought process?

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Speaker 3: That is a tight rope because I've been watching it.

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Speaker 3: I've actually seen him pitch several times on TV Williams,

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Speaker 3: and he has not been good. He's not looked anything

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Speaker 3: like he had in the past. And I was the

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Speaker 3: last several years and I was wondering how much the

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Speaker 3: Alonzo home run has impacted him. I really I was

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Speaker 3: wondering that because he's just he's just not attacking like

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Speaker 3: he had in the past. He's not getting ahead and counts,

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Speaker 3: which then puts that change up whatever he wants to

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Speaker 3: call it. Really in the driver's heat, it just did

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Speaker 3: not look normal. And beyond that, just the facial expressions.

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Speaker 3: Watching from the you know, I've talked about this all

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Speaker 3: the time. Pitching coach talks to him, bullpen coach talks

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Speaker 3: to him, manager speaks with him, and you're just finding

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Speaker 3: no confidence and you just think that maybe if I

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Speaker 3: keep throwing them out there Chuckagan at worse as opposed

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Speaker 3: to better, like you're saying a really fine line right

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Speaker 3: here when to do this if you, in fact you're

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Speaker 3: going to do it. But man, from what I was

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Speaker 3: seeing the way he was pitching, it's almost like Bednar

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Speaker 3: with Pittsburgh. I mean, I'm a big fan of Lafia

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Speaker 3: kid last year. I just did not like the way

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Speaker 3: his shoulder was working. It seemed like something might have

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Speaker 3: been bothering him. And after being like lights out, he's

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Speaker 3: not been lights out, and eventually they took him out,

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Speaker 3: but it took them longer to do that. Watching Williams

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Speaker 3: short the way, he just doesn't look comfortable throwing the

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Speaker 3: baseball and he has zero confidence. So I understand this

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Speaker 3: one was look to be rather quick and difficult. But

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Speaker 3: from my perspective watching it, I thought, Okay, I get this,

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Speaker 3: and the conversation's got to be like straightforward. Listen, this

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Speaker 3: is going to be temporary. We want you to get

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Speaker 3: your feedback on the ground, get that confident swagger. You

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Speaker 3: need a couple like quick innings like this is This

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Speaker 3: is where the new rules make it somewhat more difficult.

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Speaker 3: A three batter minimum I would for me in the

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Speaker 3: past easily with two outs in an inning. Just bring

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Speaker 3: him in to get the third out in an inning,

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Speaker 3: as opposed to having to take him out of this role.

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Speaker 3: See if you can get him like two outs in

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Speaker 3: an inning or one out in an inning, and then

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Speaker 3: get him out and move this thing along. Now you

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Speaker 3: could do that as the last out of an inning.

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Speaker 3: I get that. I understand that. But just to able

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Speaker 3: to have this like freedom to get him in and

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Speaker 3: get him out, that's what I would say to the

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Speaker 3: pitching coast, get him in and get him out to

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Speaker 3: try to rebuild his confidence. So long answer, I think

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Speaker 3: I understand this one. I didn't like the way he

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Speaker 3: looked either, and he went one, two, three. I guess

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Speaker 3: yesterday in a supporting role as opposed to closing, and

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Speaker 3: so I think that's all good and he'll he'll be back.

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Speaker 3: I mean, the guy is that talented. But I'm telling you, man,

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Speaker 3: the look on his face and the way he's throwing

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Speaker 3: the ball, I get it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and factor in here in New York, right, Yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: come into the big market. You know, the fans are

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Speaker 1: starting to chant we want Weaver when he's out there.

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Speaker 2: Right when you get traded to New York or.

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Speaker 1: You sign a free agent contract with New York, you

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Speaker 1: really have to hit the ground running, and it's very

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Speaker 1: difficult if you start from behind. You have to win

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Speaker 1: the fans over very quickly in New York. I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying that's bothering him, but it would be a natural

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Speaker 1: thing if it did, because he's never faced that kind

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Speaker 1: of scrutiny before.

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Speaker 2: Not to say he can't handle it, but it is

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Speaker 2: a new environment for him.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I want to ask you about was

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Speaker 1: pictures like that who or two pitch pitchers? Essentially, you know,

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Speaker 1: if they don't have command of one pitch, they're vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing that with Emmanuel class with Cleveland where the

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Speaker 1: location of the cutter just is not the same. You know,

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Speaker 1: he'd like to elevate that, maybe even run it in

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Speaker 1: on radies.

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Speaker 2: Everything now is down and the way the.

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Speaker 1: Slider cutter, Paul Seawall, Tanner, Scott Josh Hater sometimes.

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Speaker 2: You know Craig Kimberrell was this way.

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Speaker 1: If he didn't land his curve ball, he was very

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Speaker 1: vulnerable because you're only a two pitch guy, and if

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Speaker 1: a hitter is able to take away one, well, the

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Speaker 1: math is in the favor of the hitter at that point.

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Speaker 1: What do you see with guys, especially closers, who are

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Speaker 1: two pitch guys, Because to me, today's game is so

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Speaker 1: much about having a menu of pitches that you can

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Speaker 1: throw to both right handed and left handed hitters. Pitchers,

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Speaker 1: you know, are basically now different pitchers basically who they face,

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Speaker 1: whether it's a ready or.

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Speaker 2: Left in the box.

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Speaker 1: And if you a hitter just has a two pitch guy,

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Speaker 1: now that seems unusual. And if you've got this off,

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Speaker 1: great you can blow guys away. But the permutations obviously

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Speaker 1: are a lot less.

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Speaker 3: I still love to tried and true fastball command first.

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Speaker 3: I think a lot of the other pitches, the out pitches,

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Speaker 3: the strikeout pitch, the one that gets your run around

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Speaker 3: third less than two outs, you're going to be able

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Speaker 3: to strike somebody out when you want to. I still think,

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Speaker 3: like you talked about Kimberle I had him for a

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Speaker 3: bit as an example. Are you watching Williams right now? Vedno,

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Speaker 3: when I was watching him on the tube, that they

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Speaker 3: have these other really good pitches, but you got to

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Speaker 3: get to it where the hitter is going to be

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Speaker 3: more enticed to swing at a pitch that begins as

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Speaker 3: a striking that becomes a ball. But if you're constantly

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Speaker 3: unable to throw your fastball for a strike and get

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Speaker 3: to more advantageous councils, becomes difficult. I just we talked

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Speaker 3: about it too. You You brought it up several times

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Speaker 3: about how the league is so trending to becoming a

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Speaker 3: non fastball situation where the breaking ball becomes paramount, and

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Speaker 3: all of a sudden, there's even more emphasis on that now.

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Speaker 3: On the other hand, I just just flip that sometimes,

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Speaker 3: you know, without the fastball command I've had that, I

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Speaker 3: want them to go to the breaking ball on the

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Speaker 3: two and zero countra three to one count, It just

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Speaker 3: depends on the individual. All these things are individual based

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Speaker 3: on the pitcher. But I I still love to see

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Speaker 3: a major league pitcher commands fastball, being able to locate

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Speaker 3: that to the point where you could throw it and

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Speaker 3: it might get hit, it might be put in play,

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Speaker 3: but not a damaging kind of a way to get

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Speaker 3: to your other pitches. I'd have to watch these guys

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Speaker 3: more closely to really totally understand what I'm seeing with

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Speaker 3: that fastball versus that other pitch. But it's still I

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Speaker 3: still believe in the fastball command location, and everything works

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Speaker 3: off of that. Well.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of getting off to slow starts, Joe, we've got

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Speaker 2: to talk about our friend Buddy Black and the Colorado Rockies.

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.

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Speaker 1: The Rockies are off to a four and twenty four start,

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Speaker 1: four and twenty four. It's the worst start in modern

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Speaker 1: history in the National League. Their batting average is to twelve,

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Speaker 1: their urn run average is five point three six.

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Speaker 2: Their starters have two wins.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that your starters go to the mound twenty eight

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Speaker 1: times they walk out of there with just two wins.

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Speaker 1: This is a challenge for Buddy Black, as you know,

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Speaker 1: and it's coming off seasons of one hundred and three

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Speaker 1: and one hundred and one losses, the record Rockies had

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Speaker 1: never lost one hundred games until two years ago. Now

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Speaker 1: it looks almost assuredly like they're doing it for a

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Speaker 1: third straight year. They've already taken away his hitting coach,

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Speaker 1: Hensley Mullins, and they put back Clint Hurdle in that role.

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Speaker 1: I had been working in the front office. Put yourself

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Speaker 1: in Buddy Black's shoes, Joe, where do you go from

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Speaker 1: here after a four and twenty four start, after two

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Speaker 1: consecutive one hundred lost seasons.

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Speaker 3: Dude, I don't even know that. I've not been confronted

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Speaker 3: with that. You know, kind of was could have been

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Speaker 3: with the Devil Rays we went lost a hundred, then

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Speaker 3: close to one hundred, but then the next year after

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Speaker 3: that we ended up being a World Series team. There's

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Speaker 3: so much to digest there. I mean, I've been watching

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Speaker 3: PEPPI and I are so close. I really haven't spoken

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Speaker 3: to him. I probably should give him a blast, try

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Speaker 3: to pick him up. I didn't know about the hitting

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Speaker 3: coach with Hemsley and then Clint coming back, and I

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Speaker 3: wasn't aware of that. Those those are all band aids.

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Speaker 3: I think you know the switching of the coach right now.

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Speaker 3: That happens all the time. Coordinators always get fired and

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Speaker 3: new coordinator comes in, always looking for this different voice.

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Speaker 3: But it really comes down to the players. Their ability level, truly,

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Speaker 3: their ability to make adjustments, fight through difficult moments. I

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Speaker 3: want to believe they are major league players. And again

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Speaker 3: I haven't really watched their team because I don't know

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Speaker 3: the exact talent level of this group. But one hundred

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Speaker 3: hundred losses and now this which on their way, it's

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Speaker 3: a tough one. I for me, it's like you'd like

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Speaker 3: to get a hold of that. I've been involved in

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Speaker 3: that once as a minor league coordinator. Lake elson Or

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Speaker 3: got off. There's this kind of a start and I

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Speaker 3: had a long talk with the owner at that time

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Speaker 3: because I was the I was running the minor leagues,

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Speaker 3: and says, by the end of the season, they're going

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Speaker 3: to be a playoff team. They missed by one game,

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Speaker 3: and they missed by one game because what I did

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Speaker 3: is I went and spent like two or three weeks

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Speaker 3: with this team only I just had to get them

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Speaker 3: out of the hole. Because Lake elson Or was that

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Speaker 3: big part of our structure at that time. I always

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Speaker 3: go back to fundamentals when you're faced with the situation

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Speaker 3: like this. For me, it's about extra work with a group,

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Speaker 3: not just individually, and just start really reprocessing everything we

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Speaker 3: talked about in camp and really stressing again the importance

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Speaker 3: of playing catch, the importance of being in the right

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Speaker 3: place at the right time, and you're at bats, the

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Speaker 3: moving the ball with two strikes, accepting your walks. I

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Speaker 3: just go back to fundamentals, and I will just break

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Speaker 3: it down almost like another spring training. Guys might not

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Speaker 3: like it, but you're looking at the record. You got

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Speaker 3: to say, boys, we got to do something about this.

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Speaker 3: So for me, when you get to this point, you

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Speaker 3: go back to ground zero and you start building it

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Speaker 3: back up. Old line might get old, it might be

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Speaker 3: people don't like here, but it is about one day

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Speaker 3: at a time, and you've got to take that kind

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Speaker 3: of approach. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what the answer is here.

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Speaker 1: We all know that it's difficult to win in Colorado,

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Speaker 1: probably harder to win there than anybody else because you're

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Speaker 1: playing a different ballgame at altitude, and you're playing a

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Speaker 1: different game every time you go on the road. So

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Speaker 1: the hitters and pitchers are always going back and forth adjusting,

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Speaker 1: especially on the spin.

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Speaker 2: Of a breaking ball and the break of a breaking ball.

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Speaker 3: It's going to.

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Speaker 2: Break less at altitude.

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Speaker 1: So the Rocky hitters get on the road and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, that ball's moving a lot more than

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Speaker 1: they're used to. After a seven game, eight game homestand

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Speaker 1: they've lost thirteen consecutive road games. As ties of franchise record,

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Speaker 1: they won stretch where the first time at franchise history,

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Speaker 1: shut out three consecutive games by the Padres. They haven't

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Speaker 1: won two straight games since lass September, the middle of

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Speaker 1: last September. I don't know what you do about the

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Speaker 1: offensive problems that are inherent in Colorado. Of course they've

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Speaker 1: had teams before that match the ball. But Joe, there's

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Speaker 1: something here that's broken offensively in Colorado. They have a

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Speaker 1: couple of good offensive players. Doyle the centerfielder, Tovar the shortstop.

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Speaker 1: You know, Jordan Beck the outfielder, looks like he's got

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Speaker 1: a decent stick. But you know, someone like Ryan McMahon

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Speaker 1: has gone backward, hasn't really developed at the big league level.

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Speaker 1: We thought he was going to be a big time player,

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Speaker 1: So I don't know how you teach hitting at altitude

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Speaker 1: because it is so different, And it's just this Rockies

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Speaker 1: team should not be hitting to twelve. There's a ton

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Speaker 1: of swing and miss. They swing a miss basically more

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Speaker 1: than any team in baseball. You've got to have a

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Speaker 1: better offensive team. It's even with accepting the fact that

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Speaker 1: they're adjusting back and forth, it's too much of a

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Speaker 1: hitter's park for this team to be hitting to twelve

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Speaker 1: and not putting the ball in play. So something's fundamentally

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Speaker 1: wrong structurally with the way they're developing hitters because they

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Speaker 1: don't sign a lot of outside talent. Right they're not

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Speaker 1: a big free agent team. They actually don't do a

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Speaker 1: lot of the trade deadline either. It's very internal with

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Speaker 1: the way they run things. But I think systematically, Joe,

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Speaker 1: they've got to take a look at what's broken here.

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Speaker 3: This is a this is a classic for the tried

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Speaker 3: and true. Now again, I don't know we're talking, and

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Speaker 3: you just mentioned we don't know exactly what their philosophy is,

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Speaker 3: and I don't know the talent level necessarily there, But

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Speaker 3: obviously to me, it's about it's just about the fundamental

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Speaker 3: tried and true stuff. It's about choking up a two strike.

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Speaker 3: It's about looking away first. It's about keeping your fastball

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Speaker 3: swing loaded and try to take advantage. Maybe the ball's

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Speaker 3: not going over the wall, but they got enormous gaps

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Speaker 3: and big lines. I mean, there's a lot of places

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Speaker 3: to set a ball down there in the outfield, and

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Speaker 3: it comes down to contact. I've been through it. I

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Speaker 3: was challenged in the minor leagues too. There was an

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Speaker 3: epidemic of striking out in the late eighties, and the

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Speaker 3: challenge was to get your hitters to not strike out

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Speaker 3: as often and accept more walks. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I came up with the b hack, the

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Speaker 3: two strike approach. And again, to what extent it's being

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Speaker 3: profited to these guys or mentioned to these fellas, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. But that's the thing that we've talked about

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Speaker 3: and how home runs win games, and we've talked about this,

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Speaker 3: and my response to that is, who has really tried

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Speaker 3: to win it outside out of the home run, who

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Speaker 3: has really tried to move the ball? No pictures are

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Speaker 3: thrown harder. I get all that stuff. However, how much

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Speaker 3: of this other game is being nurtured and as opposed

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Speaker 3: to just trying to lift the ball swing as hard

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Speaker 3: as you can, Colorado being a launching pan that it is.

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Speaker 3: But obviously it's not for these guys. It's just for

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Speaker 3: me it would be somewhat easy and then to change

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Speaker 3: the methods. But we talked about this also before when

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Speaker 3: I managed in the middle and these are just experiences.

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Speaker 3: But we had the same kind of a situation at

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Speaker 3: home Man. The ball flew, it was windy, the fences

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Speaker 3: were low, it was just a real hitters haven, and

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Speaker 3: you go to then you go to Beaumont, San Antonio,

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Speaker 3: Little Rock, Shreveport, Tulsa, where the ball did not carry.

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Speaker 3: So the couple of days before we went on the road,

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Speaker 3: I would have no if you at the top of

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Speaker 3: the batting tunnel the turtle at home plate hit that drought,

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Speaker 3: you just had to be line drives and hard ground balls.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just, you know, just repetition of thought.

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Speaker 3: I to me, it's just got to be a basic situation.

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Speaker 3: You've got to fly back to basics and keep preaching

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Speaker 3: it until it starts working, because otherwise four twenty two

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Speaker 3: is not going to turn into anything good.

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Speaker 1: I just can't see it, No, I mean, listen, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to imagine that this team is not once again

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Speaker 1: going well over one hundred losses, which brings me finally

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Speaker 1: to this point. Joe teams now seem to be not

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Speaker 1: as bad, but there's more teams that are just horribly bad.

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Speaker 2: Right since the expansion era, in the one hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty two game schedule, in the first fifty years of that,

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Speaker 2: there were seven teams that lost one hundred and ten games.

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Speaker 2: The Rockies look like they will be the seventh team

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Speaker 2: just in the last seven years to lose one hundred

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Speaker 2: and ten games. So teams are just cratering. I think

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Speaker 2: there's this idea.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to say they're not trying, Joe, but

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Speaker 1: they feel like if they're not on a place on

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Speaker 1: a winning curve where they can go for a playoff spot,

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Speaker 1: they just ride it out being like horribly bad and

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Speaker 1: not trying to you know, like they don't want to

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Speaker 1: lose ninety games, you might as well lose one hundred

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Speaker 1: and ten. It's really not a good thing for the game,

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Speaker 1: and we're not seeing small market teams do this, by

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Speaker 1: the way, obviously the White Sox did it last year.

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Speaker 1: Teams like the Tigers and the Orioles have done it

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Speaker 1: as well, but seven teams in the last seven years

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Speaker 1: losing one hundred and ten games, after fifty years went

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Speaker 1: by with only seven. It's just it's not a good

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Speaker 1: look for the game.

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Speaker 3: It's not And you know, everybody's working from the same process.

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Speaker 3: Everybody trying to kind of wants to be the same.

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Speaker 3: And you can't be like the Dodgers. If you're Colorado,

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Speaker 3: you want to be you want to win that many games,

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Speaker 3: but you can't do it the same way these other teams,

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Speaker 3: the White Sox, whomever. You can't just turn that thing,

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Speaker 3: the battleship on a dime and win the same number

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Speaker 3: of games that these guys are just based on their finances,

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Speaker 3: and then beyond that they just at the talent level.

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Speaker 3: I mean the acquisitional process, which is absolutely tied into

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Speaker 3: the amount of money you're willing to spend. There they

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Speaker 3: go hand in hand. I long story again, answer to

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Speaker 3: I believe the process needs to be changed, and I

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Speaker 3: believe you can't analytically attempt to play the same game

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Speaker 3: as the Dodgers are going to play based on their personnel.

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Speaker 3: You just have to have to concede and maybe go

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Speaker 3: rogue a little bit from the industry and attempt to

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Speaker 3: play a different style of game, a more like tack

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Speaker 3: oriented game, a more contact oriented game, a more fundamental

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Speaker 3: game where you don't make mistakes on defense. Again, we're

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Speaker 3: talking about pitchers being able to look at your fastball.

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Speaker 3: I've got to be in the right spot at the

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Speaker 3: right time. You just have to take it in a

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Speaker 3: different direction. Now, of course, it's always going to come

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Speaker 3: down to talent. Whoever has the better talent should normally

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Speaker 3: win a lot more games in the group that does not.

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Speaker 3: But if you are lacking the quality of depth of talent,

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Speaker 3: necessarily that's necessary. Really focus on a different process, focus

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Speaker 3: on a different method, beat them at a different game

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Speaker 3: that they're not used to playing, apply pressure in different

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Speaker 3: in areas that they're not used to having to defend against.

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Speaker 3: But all these groups still, they're so analytically married to

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Speaker 3: the same methods within each organization that nobody wants to

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Speaker 3: go rogue and try a different method of the game.

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Speaker 3: So for me, the Rockies, I would just you know,

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Speaker 3: you got to look like almost an a ball club

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Speaker 3: doing all kinds of different things on a nightly basis

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Speaker 3: until you hit til you finally find your groove, and

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Speaker 3: it's got to be like on a different mental level,

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Speaker 3: a different approach, et cetera. The definition of insanity right

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Speaker 3: doing the same thing over and over again. So I'm

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Speaker 3: just looking for that one team or two organizations that

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Speaker 3: are going to finally say you know enough of this

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Speaker 3: to taking component not caring if you lose. Come on,

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Speaker 3: I mean, what about your fans, what about like the

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Speaker 3: integrity of the game, the best interest of the game.

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Speaker 3: I can't stand that part of what's the culture of

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Speaker 3: our industry right now? That really bothers me a lot.

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Speaker 3: So do something differently, go back to the basics. Play

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Speaker 3: the game of baseball every night as well as you

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Speaker 3: possibly can, and don't try to go toe to toe

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Speaker 3: with people that may be more physically talented in a sense,

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Speaker 3: but that does not mean you can't beat them on

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Speaker 3: a given night.

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Speaker 1: Spoken by somebody who actually did it with the Rays

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Speaker 1: up against those big boys in the Ale least the

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Speaker 1: Red Sox and the Yankees and Joe. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: if you're a soccer fan, but I got to talk

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Speaker 1: about and we'll do this after this break right here

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Speaker 1: on the book of Joe pretty much the Joe Madden

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Speaker 1: of the Premier League just won the title over there.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk about that right after this. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcasts Joe, before we get to

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Speaker 1: the Premier League. I thought this was really interesting where

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Speaker 1: jose L Tuvey, of course he's moved from second base

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Speaker 1: to left field, went to his manager, Joe Espada, and

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Speaker 1: said he'd rather move out of the lead off spot.

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Speaker 1: Now he's hit lead off for years and years and

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Speaker 1: been more of the best leadoff hitters in the game,

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Speaker 1: and he moved down to the number two spot in

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Speaker 1: the lineup. The reasoning this is really interesting, and coming

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Speaker 1: out of left field, he's got farther to run back

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Speaker 1: to the dugout and he felt really rushed for his

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Speaker 1: first at bat. So h Payny of the shortstop has

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Speaker 1: been playing with hitting well, so now he's the leadoff

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Speaker 1: guy in Altuve is the number two hitter, so you

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Speaker 1: can get time to get himself ready for that first

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Speaker 1: ay b.

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Speaker 2: I thought that was interesting.

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Speaker 3: It is and I've hit catchers in the leadoff spot.

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Speaker 3: You know, they have to change gear, get in and

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Speaker 3: out all that kind of stuff. I don't know that

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Speaker 3: I've ever had anybody make that request to me based

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Speaker 3: on that particular reason. It's first that bat I understand that.

433
00:20:48,838 --> 00:20:50,598
Speaker 3: It's what happens like in the third or fourth any

434
00:20:50,598 --> 00:20:51,798
Speaker 3: when you come up, you're going to lead off any

435
00:20:51,798 --> 00:20:53,678
Speaker 3: of his stuff running from left field. I don't know.

436
00:20:54,558 --> 00:20:56,678
Speaker 3: It's just something. Maybe he wasn't doing as well in

437
00:20:56,678 --> 00:20:58,678
Speaker 3: his first at bats and so all of a sudden,

438
00:20:59,118 --> 00:21:00,798
Speaker 3: maybe he thought of this or somebody brought it to

439
00:21:00,838 --> 00:21:03,198
Speaker 3: his attention. I don't know. I I do hate the

440
00:21:03,238 --> 00:21:05,158
Speaker 3: feeling of being right. I'm not going to argue with

441
00:21:05,198 --> 00:21:08,518
Speaker 3: that whatsoever. In anything, I hate that feeling. So maybe

442
00:21:08,558 --> 00:21:12,758
Speaker 3: that probably is accurate. But I would say that the

443
00:21:12,998 --> 00:21:16,118
Speaker 3: opinion does not necessarily work out, and as I'll t

444
00:21:16,238 --> 00:21:18,478
Speaker 3: be like, if he really gets hot, I think it

445
00:21:18,478 --> 00:21:19,838
Speaker 3: could switch back to what it had been.

446
00:21:20,758 --> 00:21:23,798
Speaker 2: So I mentioned the Premier League. Do you follow soccer, Joe,

447
00:21:23,838 --> 00:21:26,038
Speaker 2: Premier League? I don't. I'll be honest with you.

448
00:21:26,718 --> 00:21:27,798
Speaker 3: I'll be honest in return.

449
00:21:27,878 --> 00:21:30,838
Speaker 2: I do not, Okay, but I'm like you.

450
00:21:30,918 --> 00:21:34,598
Speaker 1: I'm always interested in methodologies and especially teaching and coaching.

451
00:21:35,318 --> 00:21:38,078
Speaker 1: It was interesting because Liverpool went out they needed a

452
00:21:38,158 --> 00:21:42,758
Speaker 1: new manager last year, head coach as it were, and

453
00:21:43,038 --> 00:21:46,718
Speaker 1: they actually ran an internal data testing system. They had

454
00:21:46,758 --> 00:21:49,158
Speaker 1: a bunch of criteria where they're looking for somebody with

455
00:21:49,278 --> 00:21:51,638
Speaker 1: a very unique style of play. They were looking for

456
00:21:51,678 --> 00:21:55,278
Speaker 1: somebody who would keep their players healthy, which is super

457
00:21:55,318 --> 00:21:58,998
Speaker 1: important any sport, but especially in soccer. So anyway, they

458
00:21:58,998 --> 00:22:01,918
Speaker 1: wound up after this exhaustive search using a lot of

459
00:22:01,958 --> 00:22:06,118
Speaker 1: analytics to find a guy with Arnie Slott and he

460
00:22:06,198 --> 00:22:09,118
Speaker 1: moves in. Actually, Fenway Sports is the group that owns

461
00:22:09,158 --> 00:22:12,078
Speaker 1: this Liverpool teams. Of course they also owned the Boston

462
00:22:12,078 --> 00:22:14,798
Speaker 1: Red Sox. And he comes in and he changed a

463
00:22:14,798 --> 00:22:18,438
Speaker 1: lot of things, a lot of the so called soft skills.

464
00:22:18,518 --> 00:22:21,478
Speaker 1: I mean, for instance, he put a coffee bar in

465
00:22:21,518 --> 00:22:25,318
Speaker 1: the clubhouse they took from the Italian League, where players

466
00:22:25,358 --> 00:22:28,198
Speaker 1: would come in and hang out early and stayed late

467
00:22:28,758 --> 00:22:32,398
Speaker 1: around the coffee bar, just talking about yes, their game,

468
00:22:32,438 --> 00:22:36,278
Speaker 1: the practice, whatever, but installing or at least trying to

469
00:22:36,518 --> 00:22:37,798
Speaker 1: improve camaraderie.

470
00:22:38,038 --> 00:22:38,518
Speaker 2: They had a.

471
00:22:38,518 --> 00:22:40,798
Speaker 1: History there where the team when they were playing at home,

472
00:22:41,438 --> 00:22:44,238
Speaker 1: everybody would go to a hotel. By the way, the

473
00:22:44,358 --> 00:22:46,758
Speaker 1: name of the hotel was the Titanic Hotel.

474
00:22:47,478 --> 00:22:48,758
Speaker 2: It's probably not a good.

475
00:22:48,558 --> 00:22:52,558
Speaker 1: Omen and Arn't thought, you know what, let these guys

476
00:22:52,598 --> 00:22:54,678
Speaker 1: stay at home sleep in their own beds. We got

477
00:22:54,798 --> 00:22:58,358
Speaker 1: rid of the the night before home matches having guys

478
00:22:58,758 --> 00:23:02,078
Speaker 1: go to a hotel. So he did a lot of

479
00:23:02,118 --> 00:23:04,518
Speaker 1: these things and the players all jelled. He also has

480
00:23:04,558 --> 00:23:07,718
Speaker 1: this method that he's got body wake ups before games

481
00:23:07,758 --> 00:23:11,198
Speaker 1: where guys will go through breathing exercises and meditations and

482
00:23:11,238 --> 00:23:14,398
Speaker 1: will do this as a group. He also is big

483
00:23:14,438 --> 00:23:18,318
Speaker 1: on meetings and especially with video. Like the course of

484
00:23:18,358 --> 00:23:21,118
Speaker 1: a game, he will he has an assistant by him

485
00:23:21,198 --> 00:23:24,758
Speaker 1: and I'll just say clip, meaning take that play and

486
00:23:24,838 --> 00:23:27,238
Speaker 1: take that clip, and I'm going to address this with

487
00:23:27,318 --> 00:23:31,198
Speaker 1: that player, even as soon as halftime if it's appropriate,

488
00:23:31,358 --> 00:23:33,798
Speaker 1: or after the game, or anytime he has these meetings,

489
00:23:34,038 --> 00:23:36,078
Speaker 1: he rolls out these clips and he says, here's what

490
00:23:36,158 --> 00:23:39,518
Speaker 1: you did, here's where you need to be. Basically, Liverpool

491
00:23:39,558 --> 00:23:42,838
Speaker 1: surprised everybody. This guy's first year and it happens very rarely.

492
00:23:42,998 --> 00:23:45,518
Speaker 1: First year manager goes in there and they win the title.

493
00:23:45,598 --> 00:23:48,998
Speaker 1: But I like the fact that they empowered, aren't slot

494
00:23:49,038 --> 00:23:52,838
Speaker 1: once they hired him to basically install his own system,

495
00:23:53,038 --> 00:23:55,598
Speaker 1: change some of the methodologies.

496
00:23:55,518 --> 00:23:57,838
Speaker 2: And it worked right away. I love all that, but

497
00:23:57,878 --> 00:23:58,438
Speaker 2: I thought.

498
00:23:58,198 --> 00:24:00,958
Speaker 1: Of you, Joe Matt, because you know, he wasn't afraid

499
00:24:00,998 --> 00:24:04,238
Speaker 1: to do things. Yes, maybe in a different way, not

500
00:24:04,278 --> 00:24:07,238
Speaker 1: new to him, but maybe new to what Liverpool had

501
00:24:07,278 --> 00:24:07,718
Speaker 1: been doing.

502
00:24:07,878 --> 00:24:10,478
Speaker 3: Well, he definitely knows what he knows. I mean, he's

503
00:24:11,158 --> 00:24:14,878
Speaker 3: had some experience. Obviously, he studied it very intently. He

504
00:24:14,958 --> 00:24:19,278
Speaker 3: probably has been observing what everybody else has been doing

505
00:24:19,398 --> 00:24:23,598
Speaker 3: and realizing there's these just these these subtle, different ways

506
00:24:23,638 --> 00:24:26,278
Speaker 3: to make changes that are going to appeal to the players.

507
00:24:26,558 --> 00:24:29,198
Speaker 3: That it just really comes down to like culture, like

508
00:24:29,238 --> 00:24:32,158
Speaker 3: you're saying, bringing groups together the latter day postgame beer

509
00:24:32,198 --> 00:24:34,638
Speaker 3: is now the cappuccino. Things like that are the pregame.

510
00:24:35,878 --> 00:24:37,838
Speaker 3: I like all of that. Absolutely, you knew that I

511
00:24:37,838 --> 00:24:40,278
Speaker 3: would like that. I think it's a great idea. And

512
00:24:40,718 --> 00:24:44,718
Speaker 3: when you do do that that way and really understand

513
00:24:44,918 --> 00:24:47,038
Speaker 3: why you're doing it, it's not like he's just reaching

514
00:24:47,118 --> 00:24:49,718
Speaker 3: into a bag of tricks and all of a sudden,

515
00:24:49,758 --> 00:24:54,118
Speaker 3: like what's going to come out next, just haphazardly. He knows,

516
00:24:54,238 --> 00:24:56,598
Speaker 3: he knows what's in that bag, and he's just pulling

517
00:24:56,598 --> 00:24:58,798
Speaker 3: different things out at different times, and the players are

518
00:24:58,838 --> 00:25:01,438
Speaker 3: reacting to it. It's just different and the only thing

519
00:25:01,478 --> 00:25:03,598
Speaker 3: is up all the meetings. But I like the idea

520
00:25:03,638 --> 00:25:05,918
Speaker 3: of pull a video clip and playing back a video clip.

521
00:25:05,958 --> 00:25:10,038
Speaker 3: I'm good with that. But overall it's just refreshing to

522
00:25:10,118 --> 00:25:12,998
Speaker 3: these players, I'm sure. But it just sounds to me

523
00:25:13,118 --> 00:25:17,158
Speaker 3: like this guy premeditated. He's thought these things out in advance.

524
00:25:17,238 --> 00:25:19,398
Speaker 3: There's certain things that he's seen that are kind of

525
00:25:19,438 --> 00:25:22,078
Speaker 3: accepted practices, even right down to the meditation, which we

526
00:25:22,438 --> 00:25:26,758
Speaker 3: believer in, and the stuff that everybody else is doing

527
00:25:27,158 --> 00:25:29,998
Speaker 3: did not resonate with him, and he thought it all

528
00:25:30,038 --> 00:25:32,518
Speaker 3: the way through and here comes some new and different

529
00:25:32,518 --> 00:25:35,238
Speaker 3: thoughts that to me, it sounds like it's a lot

530
00:25:35,518 --> 00:25:38,558
Speaker 3: about mind, the mental part of the game over the

531
00:25:38,558 --> 00:25:41,118
Speaker 3: physical part of the game. Watch what we're doing. He's

532
00:25:41,158 --> 00:25:43,678
Speaker 3: talking about, like I said, bringing the group together, the

533
00:25:43,758 --> 00:25:47,118
Speaker 3: camaraderie component, all those things that a lot of times

534
00:25:47,438 --> 00:25:51,038
Speaker 3: people don't approach. Everybody wants to go after, like batting

535
00:25:51,078 --> 00:25:56,278
Speaker 3: practice and extra swings and whatever, more bullpen sessions, more

536
00:25:56,358 --> 00:25:58,558
Speaker 3: ground balls. But this guy's talking about the mind a

537
00:25:58,638 --> 00:26:01,518
Speaker 3: little bit, actually a lot, and I think that's that's

538
00:26:01,558 --> 00:26:02,958
Speaker 3: where he's coming from, and I like it.

539
00:26:03,238 --> 00:26:06,678
Speaker 1: Yeah, he began in their training camp he would have

540
00:26:06,958 --> 00:26:10,318
Speaker 1: compulsory team breakfasts, so guys would get in early before

541
00:26:10,358 --> 00:26:13,998
Speaker 1: the workouts and they'd have breakfast together. But really what

542
00:26:14,038 --> 00:26:16,318
Speaker 1: caught my attention Joe's it follows up on what you

543
00:26:16,358 --> 00:26:18,718
Speaker 1: were just talking about. With the style of play right

544
00:26:18,958 --> 00:26:22,798
Speaker 1: Liverpool at least identified they wanted somebody with a distinct,

545
00:26:23,078 --> 00:26:25,398
Speaker 1: unique style of play. They didn't want to play like

546
00:26:25,438 --> 00:26:27,798
Speaker 1: everybody else, and he had that style. And he was

547
00:26:27,838 --> 00:26:30,398
Speaker 1: asked to explain exactly what his style was and he

548
00:26:30,398 --> 00:26:34,118
Speaker 1: said he wanted his players to feel the structure, stressing

549
00:26:34,158 --> 00:26:37,758
Speaker 1: that although he expects them to follow his ideas without

550
00:26:37,798 --> 00:26:40,158
Speaker 1: the ball, when they do have the ball it's a

551
00:26:40,198 --> 00:26:42,918
Speaker 1: little bit different. For instance, when he said, when we

552
00:26:42,998 --> 00:26:46,958
Speaker 1: don't have the ball on defense, there's no room for freedom.

553
00:26:47,238 --> 00:26:49,158
Speaker 2: It's just hard work and doing what we have to do.

554
00:26:49,598 --> 00:26:52,518
Speaker 1: But when we do have the ball, especially in the

555
00:26:52,598 --> 00:26:55,558
Speaker 1: last third of the pitch, then we also rely on

556
00:26:55,678 --> 00:26:59,158
Speaker 1: the individual quality. We bring them as much as we

557
00:26:59,198 --> 00:27:01,838
Speaker 1: can in certain positions, which comes from structure, But then

558
00:27:01,878 --> 00:27:04,718
Speaker 1: it has a lot to do with the individual quality

559
00:27:04,838 --> 00:27:05,718
Speaker 1: of the players.

560
00:27:06,678 --> 00:27:08,198
Speaker 2: I love that idea, Joe, that he.

561
00:27:08,198 --> 00:27:11,558
Speaker 1: Has this freedom, this structure, but freedom within it for

562
00:27:11,638 --> 00:27:13,118
Speaker 1: the players to be who they are.

563
00:27:13,638 --> 00:27:15,838
Speaker 3: Amen. I mean, that's that's what it's all about I

564
00:27:15,878 --> 00:27:18,318
Speaker 3: mean you in spring training, you put this whole thing together,

565
00:27:18,398 --> 00:27:21,238
Speaker 3: You put the team concepts together. Absolutely, there's there's certain

566
00:27:21,278 --> 00:27:23,918
Speaker 3: parts of parts of it that are more structured and

567
00:27:24,038 --> 00:27:27,878
Speaker 3: our more team oriented. But while you're doing that, you've

568
00:27:27,878 --> 00:27:29,718
Speaker 3: heard me say a thousand times, you just want to

569
00:27:29,718 --> 00:27:31,878
Speaker 3: stay out of the way of greatness and permit the

570
00:27:31,918 --> 00:27:35,598
Speaker 3: individual to blossom and be who he is, right down

571
00:27:35,638 --> 00:27:37,438
Speaker 3: to the way he dresses. And we've talked about that,

572
00:27:37,918 --> 00:27:41,158
Speaker 3: so I like all of that. There's times for the structure,

573
00:27:41,158 --> 00:27:44,158
Speaker 3: there's times to turn it loose, there's times for theory,

574
00:27:44,198 --> 00:27:47,758
Speaker 3: and then here comes reality. Theory and reality clash all

575
00:27:47,798 --> 00:27:51,638
Speaker 3: the time, and theoretically, you put this thing together. You

576
00:27:51,638 --> 00:27:53,798
Speaker 3: want the game to work exactly this way. This is

577
00:27:53,798 --> 00:27:57,638
Speaker 3: what we believe in. Here's abc D, here's the first, second, third,

578
00:27:57,678 --> 00:28:00,518
Speaker 3: fourth inning, here's the belief, picture's seventh, eighth, ninth. But

579
00:28:01,118 --> 00:28:02,878
Speaker 3: reality steps in the way, and all of a sudden,

580
00:28:02,958 --> 00:28:05,438
Speaker 3: you've got to just go rogue and play the game

581
00:28:05,558 --> 00:28:08,278
Speaker 3: and make your adjustments as you go along. DA's where

582
00:28:08,318 --> 00:28:11,598
Speaker 3: feel comes in, because when you get to that point

583
00:28:11,678 --> 00:28:14,438
Speaker 3: where things break down or they're going your way, or

584
00:28:14,478 --> 00:28:16,638
Speaker 3: they break down when they break down is really when

585
00:28:17,558 --> 00:28:21,638
Speaker 3: somebody has to take over and see things in advance,

586
00:28:21,878 --> 00:28:25,678
Speaker 3: react quickly. Man, it's really warp speed. It doesn't look

587
00:28:25,718 --> 00:28:29,878
Speaker 3: that fast from up top, but when you're on the field, soccer, baseball, football, whatever,

588
00:28:29,918 --> 00:28:33,638
Speaker 3: it's warp speed. So again, field being the gift of experience.

589
00:28:33,638 --> 00:28:36,038
Speaker 3: If you've been through this stuff before and you're able

590
00:28:36,038 --> 00:28:40,158
Speaker 3: to recognize things quickly or in advance, which is absolutely necessary,

591
00:28:40,158 --> 00:28:44,518
Speaker 3: then you can make the adjustments. Athletes cannot be restricted analytically.

592
00:28:44,558 --> 00:28:48,358
Speaker 3: There's nothing that analytics that a player is holding onto

593
00:28:48,478 --> 00:28:51,238
Speaker 3: in a hot moment in a big game. Again, theory

594
00:28:51,318 --> 00:28:53,798
Speaker 3: before the game wonderful, but when the game's being played,

595
00:28:54,158 --> 00:28:56,478
Speaker 3: let him play, stay out of their way. It sounds

596
00:28:56,478 --> 00:28:58,478
Speaker 3: like that's what he does. And again I cannot agree

597
00:28:58,478 --> 00:29:01,478
Speaker 3: with the more final point. It sounds like the Red

598
00:29:01,478 --> 00:29:04,718
Speaker 3: Sox are looking for ted Lasso. Maybe they found them.

599
00:29:04,958 --> 00:29:05,478
Speaker 2: Good point.

600
00:29:05,678 --> 00:29:08,798
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, I think you touched on something here about

601
00:29:08,918 --> 00:29:11,878
Speaker 1: camaraderie and the old days, guys would hang around after

602
00:29:11,918 --> 00:29:13,838
Speaker 1: the game and have a beer, right and talk about

603
00:29:13,838 --> 00:29:15,878
Speaker 1: the game and the last team. I can't remember doing

604
00:29:15,918 --> 00:29:18,038
Speaker 1: that show. It's a long time ago. Is the nineteen

605
00:29:18,078 --> 00:29:21,958
Speaker 1: ninety three Phillies. They would be there for hours and hours,

606
00:29:22,158 --> 00:29:25,958
Speaker 1: and you know, basically they've taken alcohol out of the clubhouse,

607
00:29:26,718 --> 00:29:29,478
Speaker 1: So the coffee bar is not a bad idea. What

608
00:29:29,518 --> 00:29:31,998
Speaker 1: do you think in the modern game, the manager or

609
00:29:32,078 --> 00:29:35,598
Speaker 1: the team can do to kind of foster this camaraderie

610
00:29:35,638 --> 00:29:38,278
Speaker 1: where guys tend to go their own ways. They'll go

611
00:29:38,358 --> 00:29:40,758
Speaker 1: back in their hotel rooms and they'll play video games

612
00:29:40,798 --> 00:29:43,878
Speaker 1: and be on their phones and whatnot. Those methods of

613
00:29:44,038 --> 00:29:49,118
Speaker 1: having guys around sharing talk about the game itself. I mean,

614
00:29:49,158 --> 00:29:51,278
Speaker 1: if you go to a major league ballpark now and

615
00:29:51,358 --> 00:29:53,958
Speaker 1: you go behind the scenes, there's so many different rooms

616
00:29:53,998 --> 00:29:57,718
Speaker 1: and areas for players to get lost in. How do

617
00:29:57,758 --> 00:30:01,758
Speaker 1: you bring back that sort of bonding element, the physical

618
00:30:01,838 --> 00:30:06,558
Speaker 1: bonding of teams with shared spaces and ideas well.

619
00:30:06,878 --> 00:30:08,998
Speaker 3: I actually really liked what the Angels did this camp,

620
00:30:09,158 --> 00:30:12,118
Speaker 3: the cell phone edict there where the cell phones were

621
00:30:12,158 --> 00:30:14,278
Speaker 3: not permitted in the locker room. I see nothing wrong

622
00:30:14,318 --> 00:30:17,518
Speaker 3: with that. And to really work your way around something

623
00:30:17,598 --> 00:30:20,558
Speaker 3: like that, just make sure that maybe your media guy,

624
00:30:20,798 --> 00:30:26,878
Speaker 3: clubhouse attendant has a his number is given to wives, girlfriends, kids, whatever.

625
00:30:27,238 --> 00:30:29,998
Speaker 3: To make sure that if it's an absolute emergency that

626
00:30:30,078 --> 00:30:32,558
Speaker 3: you're put in touch with him ever. But I like

627
00:30:32,638 --> 00:30:38,038
Speaker 3: the idea of that that just by subtracting technology, you're

628
00:30:38,078 --> 00:30:40,758
Speaker 3: going to encourage more conversation. So I think that would

629
00:30:40,798 --> 00:30:43,958
Speaker 3: be a great place to start. I also like the

630
00:30:44,078 --> 00:30:47,238
Speaker 3: encouragement of like team meals, like you when these guys

631
00:30:47,278 --> 00:30:49,598
Speaker 3: go out on the road. I loved when my guys

632
00:30:49,638 --> 00:30:51,758
Speaker 3: went out for dinner on the road, say after a

633
00:30:51,798 --> 00:30:55,038
Speaker 3: day game, maybe on a Saturday and different city, a

634
00:30:55,078 --> 00:30:58,358
Speaker 3: whole group would get together and go out, and it

635
00:30:58,158 --> 00:31:01,438
Speaker 3: was always there was almost always a positive benefit from that.

636
00:31:01,678 --> 00:31:03,598
Speaker 3: I used to do the same thing with the coaching staff.

637
00:31:03,998 --> 00:31:07,158
Speaker 3: I love that. And then in furthermore, there's something I

638
00:31:07,198 --> 00:31:09,078
Speaker 3: started getting into later on with the Cubs, was like

639
00:31:09,158 --> 00:31:13,078
Speaker 3: a couple of us staff guys taking one guy out

640
00:31:13,158 --> 00:31:16,038
Speaker 3: or two guys out just to be with them, talk

641
00:31:16,078 --> 00:31:17,918
Speaker 3: with him, open up about it, try to get him

642
00:31:17,918 --> 00:31:21,078
Speaker 3: known better. All these different little micro things that can

643
00:31:21,158 --> 00:31:25,158
Speaker 3: occur that foster relationship building. Whatever it is that fosters

644
00:31:25,158 --> 00:31:29,598
Speaker 3: that relationship building. I would really want to emphasize that,

645
00:31:29,758 --> 00:31:32,398
Speaker 3: and that's part of that would be like even within

646
00:31:32,438 --> 00:31:35,638
Speaker 3: the lead bull concept, where you get try to really

647
00:31:35,638 --> 00:31:39,678
Speaker 3: empower your your better players. The more influential guys on

648
00:31:39,718 --> 00:31:43,278
Speaker 3: the team to be like, truly there are running the clubhouse,

649
00:31:43,318 --> 00:31:45,758
Speaker 3: but truly feel empowered to run the clubhouse. And then

650
00:31:45,798 --> 00:31:48,518
Speaker 3: I would encourage them, like for instance, with the race,

651
00:31:48,518 --> 00:31:50,438
Speaker 3: if I had an issue with somebody, when I had

652
00:31:50,478 --> 00:31:53,478
Speaker 3: Gabe Capler, I'd say, Gabe, would you mind talking to

653
00:31:53,518 --> 00:31:55,958
Speaker 3: so and so about whatever? And then he would. Gabe

654
00:31:55,958 --> 00:31:59,918
Speaker 3: would specifically take the issue to the player and would

655
00:32:00,558 --> 00:32:02,718
Speaker 3: obviously make a big difference. I thought he was outstanding

656
00:32:02,758 --> 00:32:05,318
Speaker 3: at that. So all these little micro different ways to

657
00:32:05,518 --> 00:32:08,318
Speaker 3: talk to people, whether in a group or individually, and

658
00:32:08,838 --> 00:32:13,198
Speaker 3: from that, from this these concepts, you really build that

659
00:32:13,278 --> 00:32:16,038
Speaker 3: method among the group that they do hang more tightly,

660
00:32:16,118 --> 00:32:19,638
Speaker 3: that they do pull one one one another more sincerely,

661
00:32:19,878 --> 00:32:22,398
Speaker 3: that they are there and they do have each other's backs.

662
00:32:22,638 --> 00:32:25,078
Speaker 3: I don't know how much people really realize how important

663
00:32:25,118 --> 00:32:27,718
Speaker 3: that is, because we're so caught up in numbers and

664
00:32:27,838 --> 00:32:33,118
Speaker 3: data and artificial intelligence whatever as opposed to what really

665
00:32:33,118 --> 00:32:38,078
Speaker 3: makes a difference, and that's the interconnective interconnectedness between uh

666
00:32:38,278 --> 00:32:41,118
Speaker 3: men and players in this situation. So I would spend

667
00:32:41,198 --> 00:32:42,798
Speaker 3: so much time, but I would I would start with

668
00:32:42,838 --> 00:32:45,398
Speaker 3: the cell phone theory. I think that has there's a

669
00:32:45,558 --> 00:32:47,878
Speaker 3: there's a lot to be said about that, and then

670
00:32:47,918 --> 00:32:50,638
Speaker 3: from there just really encouraged, Like just like he's doing

671
00:32:50,678 --> 00:32:55,358
Speaker 3: these these uh breakfasts and the cappuccino bar or whatever.

672
00:32:55,638 --> 00:32:56,998
Speaker 3: I think those are great ideas.

673
00:32:57,278 --> 00:32:59,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm wondering Joe, if you found things change in

674
00:32:59,678 --> 00:33:01,878
Speaker 1: the course of managing, and especially I think you were

675
00:33:01,878 --> 00:33:05,998
Speaker 1: there when Wrigley Field, the home was redesigned, that the

676
00:33:05,998 --> 00:33:09,558
Speaker 1: physical nature has changed so much it's harder to have

677
00:33:09,638 --> 00:33:12,558
Speaker 1: that team together in this I mean I remember all

678
00:33:12,598 --> 00:33:15,958
Speaker 1: the old ballparks, even the home side, especially the roadside,

679
00:33:15,998 --> 00:33:18,918
Speaker 1: but especially the home side. It was just a very small,

680
00:33:19,038 --> 00:33:22,678
Speaker 1: intimate place where you were literally next to one another.

681
00:33:22,998 --> 00:33:25,118
Speaker 1: And now there's just so many places for guys to

682
00:33:25,158 --> 00:33:27,918
Speaker 1: get lost. You have sleeping rooms, you have yoga rooms,

683
00:33:27,958 --> 00:33:31,998
Speaker 1: you have you know, cafeterias, just weight rooms, you know,

684
00:33:32,158 --> 00:33:35,838
Speaker 1: so many different stretching rooms. It's it's hard to get

685
00:33:35,838 --> 00:33:38,598
Speaker 1: the team literally together the way it was in the past.

686
00:33:38,638 --> 00:33:41,558
Speaker 1: I wonder if you saw that, especially what Wrigley was redesigned.

687
00:33:41,918 --> 00:33:44,278
Speaker 3: But Tayo, the one thing about Wriggley being redesigned that

688
00:33:44,318 --> 00:33:46,758
Speaker 3: I thought was brilliant is that the clubhouse was a

689
00:33:46,758 --> 00:33:49,798
Speaker 3: circle right, and everything worked off with that circle, so

690
00:33:49,918 --> 00:33:52,118
Speaker 3: you really didn't get too far away from the locker

691
00:33:52,158 --> 00:33:54,278
Speaker 3: room at any particular time. We walk out one door

692
00:33:54,278 --> 00:33:56,598
Speaker 3: as a training room, walk out the other door and

693
00:33:56,638 --> 00:33:58,638
Speaker 3: there is the food room. Walk out the other door

694
00:33:58,798 --> 00:34:01,918
Speaker 3: is the weight room. Then there's the video It was

695
00:34:02,038 --> 00:34:04,678
Speaker 3: really well designed, and then the one and walk out

696
00:34:04,678 --> 00:34:08,118
Speaker 3: that you go on this hallway that leads under the

697
00:34:08,158 --> 00:34:11,198
Speaker 3: stands that goes down to the batting tunnels into the

698
00:34:11,238 --> 00:34:14,438
Speaker 3: newer dugout situation. I thought that was grand, So I

699
00:34:14,478 --> 00:34:17,758
Speaker 3: think part of the interconnectedness would be part of the

700
00:34:17,798 --> 00:34:20,878
Speaker 3: design also. I think that was Theo's idea, And to me,

701
00:34:20,958 --> 00:34:23,478
Speaker 3: that was really really really well done, and I thought

702
00:34:23,598 --> 00:34:26,958
Speaker 3: actually it helped bring the group together more than separate.

703
00:34:27,158 --> 00:34:28,958
Speaker 3: Although there was one room there's like a video room

704
00:34:28,958 --> 00:34:31,998
Speaker 3: like you're talking about behind the food room. That was

705
00:34:32,038 --> 00:34:34,598
Speaker 3: a little bit more over the top, but there are

706
00:34:34,678 --> 00:34:37,118
Speaker 3: times you really do need just to chill a little bit.

707
00:34:37,118 --> 00:34:40,038
Speaker 3: There was a little a sleep room. I'm not a

708
00:34:40,118 --> 00:34:42,678
Speaker 3: post to that. If you just need to close your

709
00:34:42,678 --> 00:34:44,478
Speaker 3: eyes for a bit to really focus on things, I

710
00:34:44,598 --> 00:34:46,638
Speaker 3: was good with that. There is a plate's room, but

711
00:34:46,638 --> 00:34:49,918
Speaker 3: there's all these windows and stuff you're never really isolated.

712
00:34:49,958 --> 00:34:53,438
Speaker 3: It's not just a room with a door. So I

713
00:34:54,238 --> 00:34:56,478
Speaker 3: would encourage, like, if you're going to do anything like

714
00:34:56,518 --> 00:34:58,798
Speaker 3: that in the future, you're going to build something to

715
00:34:58,918 --> 00:35:01,958
Speaker 3: really be aware of how to keep the guys connected

716
00:35:02,438 --> 00:35:07,358
Speaker 3: within this situation. I thought the circle idea was absolutely brilliant.

717
00:35:07,558 --> 00:35:11,638
Speaker 1: Yeah, democracy right, there's no power positions in a circle.

718
00:35:11,718 --> 00:35:14,518
Speaker 2: Everything's even. So that was a great idea. It's a

719
00:35:14,518 --> 00:35:18,078
Speaker 2: beautiful clubhouse. The physical nature of things.

720
00:35:17,838 --> 00:35:20,118
Speaker 1: Do matter, especially in the game of baseball, where these

721
00:35:20,158 --> 00:35:23,078
Speaker 1: guys are together seven months and in a good year

722
00:35:23,158 --> 00:35:28,398
Speaker 1: eight months. Joe, something historic happened in baseball that I

723
00:35:28,438 --> 00:35:32,398
Speaker 1: don't think it got nearly as much attention as it should,

724
00:35:32,478 --> 00:35:33,878
Speaker 1: And I want to ask you about that when we

725
00:35:33,918 --> 00:35:48,198
Speaker 1: get back after this quick break on the Book of Joe.

726
00:35:49,198 --> 00:35:51,398
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Book of Joe. I'm not sure

727
00:35:51,398 --> 00:35:54,598
Speaker 1: if you saw it. It happened on a weekend out in Arizona.

728
00:35:55,118 --> 00:35:58,518
Speaker 1: E Haino Suarez hit four home runs in one game.

729
00:35:58,598 --> 00:35:58,838
Speaker 3: Joe.

730
00:35:58,878 --> 00:36:03,598
Speaker 1: He came into this game hitting one sixty seven and

731
00:36:04,038 --> 00:36:06,718
Speaker 1: thirty three years old, hitting six in the lineup, hits

732
00:36:06,798 --> 00:36:09,158
Speaker 1: four home runs. Now he's the oldest player to hit

733
00:36:09,158 --> 00:36:11,878
Speaker 1: four home runs in a game. It's as low in

734
00:36:11,918 --> 00:36:14,638
Speaker 1: the lineup as anybody's ever hit four home runs.

735
00:36:14,998 --> 00:36:16,598
Speaker 2: He seemed an unlikely candidate.

736
00:36:16,678 --> 00:36:18,878
Speaker 1: I know he hits home runs, don't get me wrong,

737
00:36:19,158 --> 00:36:21,598
Speaker 1: but the way he was going, certainly you didn't have

738
00:36:21,638 --> 00:36:23,478
Speaker 1: a premonition something like this was happening.

739
00:36:24,318 --> 00:36:24,998
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

740
00:36:25,038 --> 00:36:28,678
Speaker 1: He's only the nineteenth player in the modern era to

741
00:36:28,878 --> 00:36:31,438
Speaker 1: hit four home runs in a game, Joe, And that's

742
00:36:31,718 --> 00:36:35,718
Speaker 1: fewer than there are perfect games thrown. Somebody throws a

743
00:36:35,758 --> 00:36:37,078
Speaker 1: perfect game, we all go wild.

744
00:36:37,398 --> 00:36:41,238
Speaker 2: I just listen. It's an unbelievable achievement.

745
00:36:41,998 --> 00:36:44,198
Speaker 1: I know it was a weekend when it happened, but

746
00:36:44,838 --> 00:36:46,878
Speaker 1: I was blown away by this guy hitting one to

747
00:36:46,958 --> 00:36:49,718
Speaker 1: sixty seven, taking somebody out four times in the same game,

748
00:36:50,118 --> 00:36:52,798
Speaker 1: and they lost, correct, and they lost, by the way,

749
00:36:52,798 --> 00:36:54,958
Speaker 1: that's only the third time in modern history.

750
00:36:55,158 --> 00:36:57,478
Speaker 2: How does that happen? Right? But it did happen.

751
00:36:57,718 --> 00:37:00,398
Speaker 3: I know this. When this guy was with Cincinnati got

752
00:37:00,518 --> 00:37:03,478
Speaker 3: he was good. It wasn't just homers. He played a

753
00:37:03,518 --> 00:37:06,598
Speaker 3: really good third base, and he was a good hitter.

754
00:37:06,678 --> 00:37:09,438
Speaker 3: I mean he was a tough out in general. Older

755
00:37:09,478 --> 00:37:12,118
Speaker 3: I understand that. I don't know philosophically, what he's gone

756
00:37:12,118 --> 00:37:14,838
Speaker 3: through since he's left there. I saw him a little

757
00:37:14,838 --> 00:37:17,998
Speaker 3: bit one in Seattle, I think. But this guy has

758
00:37:17,998 --> 00:37:21,038
Speaker 3: that kind of jack, there's no question. And I should

759
00:37:21,078 --> 00:37:24,238
Speaker 3: have watched the video because they didn't see specifically, you know,

760
00:37:24,318 --> 00:37:26,398
Speaker 3: the pitches, the type of pitches. If they just kept

761
00:37:26,398 --> 00:37:29,318
Speaker 3: making dumb, hanging breaking ball mistakes, would.

762
00:37:29,118 --> 00:37:31,198
Speaker 2: It Well, what's interesting, Joe is I don't know how

763
00:37:31,238 --> 00:37:33,558
Speaker 2: you thought. I always thought this that that showed this.

764
00:37:33,758 --> 00:37:36,038
Speaker 1: He always had trouble with pitches up in his own

765
00:37:36,198 --> 00:37:38,398
Speaker 1: high eaters, and he took two of him out of

766
00:37:38,438 --> 00:37:38,758
Speaker 1: the park.

767
00:37:38,798 --> 00:37:41,238
Speaker 2: I mean top rail fastballs with velocity.

768
00:37:41,238 --> 00:37:42,838
Speaker 3: Whether it was the number up, was the number of

769
00:37:42,838 --> 00:37:43,518
Speaker 3: good velocity.

770
00:37:43,638 --> 00:37:47,158
Speaker 1: I think they were decent. Yeah, but he it was

771
00:37:47,238 --> 00:37:47,998
Speaker 1: just his day.

772
00:37:48,038 --> 00:37:49,598
Speaker 3: I guess you know what it's like on a golf

773
00:37:49,638 --> 00:37:55,238
Speaker 3: course that day right one day, right one day, center

774
00:37:55,238 --> 00:37:56,598
Speaker 3: of the club and it's going where you want to

775
00:37:56,638 --> 00:37:58,558
Speaker 3: the other day, it's like, did I ever play this

776
00:37:58,638 --> 00:38:01,518
Speaker 3: game before? The the golf club feels like an actual

777
00:38:01,598 --> 00:38:03,878
Speaker 3: like post from a from a fence in your hand.

778
00:38:04,678 --> 00:38:07,198
Speaker 3: He was just feeling it that day. I don't know

779
00:38:07,198 --> 00:38:10,478
Speaker 3: what's happened since then. It is, like you said, highly unusual.

780
00:38:10,958 --> 00:38:13,398
Speaker 3: It's just one of those anomaly moments. The ball looked big,

781
00:38:13,438 --> 00:38:18,318
Speaker 3: a ball looks slow. He probably his body felt great, whatever,

782
00:38:18,438 --> 00:38:20,318
Speaker 3: but it's just it is that unusual. But I will

783
00:38:20,318 --> 00:38:22,318
Speaker 3: defend the fact regardless of what he's hitting right now.

784
00:38:22,358 --> 00:38:24,198
Speaker 3: And I know the last couple of years have been

785
00:38:24,398 --> 00:38:26,918
Speaker 3: hot and cold, but man, when I saw this guy

786
00:38:26,998 --> 00:38:28,358
Speaker 3: several years ago, he was all of that.

787
00:38:28,598 --> 00:38:29,958
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely got pop.

788
00:38:30,238 --> 00:38:33,558
Speaker 1: He was hitting one forty three against high fastballs coming

789
00:38:33,598 --> 00:38:36,118
Speaker 1: into this game, so I actually looked this up.

790
00:38:36,158 --> 00:38:37,118
Speaker 2: This is kind of crazy.

791
00:38:37,158 --> 00:38:40,118
Speaker 1: From last starting last year, through this game, he had

792
00:38:40,158 --> 00:38:44,038
Speaker 1: seen nine hundred and thirty two pitches at the top

793
00:38:44,078 --> 00:38:46,878
Speaker 1: of the strikeson had three home runs in that game.

794
00:38:46,918 --> 00:38:50,678
Speaker 1: He saw six elevated pitches and hit three home runs.

795
00:38:50,878 --> 00:38:52,718
Speaker 3: Let me ask you this, did he did he changes?

796
00:38:52,838 --> 00:38:54,958
Speaker 3: Does anybody know if he changes bad at all? I mean,

797
00:38:54,998 --> 00:39:00,398
Speaker 3: I've always had this theory about jose Yureba, remember him

798
00:39:00,438 --> 00:39:03,198
Speaker 3: their basement with the White Sox, And yes, he used

799
00:39:03,198 --> 00:39:05,558
Speaker 3: a pea shooter of a batman little bat and this

800
00:39:05,598 --> 00:39:09,638
Speaker 3: guy killed high fastballs. I always wanted to really try

801
00:39:09,678 --> 00:39:12,198
Speaker 3: to ask guys like if they had trouble with that pitch.

802
00:39:12,198 --> 00:39:15,198
Speaker 3: If you ever consider just going to a smaller, lighter

803
00:39:15,238 --> 00:39:16,998
Speaker 3: bat to see if you get over, because you really

804
00:39:17,038 --> 00:39:18,598
Speaker 3: got to get on top of that ball. You have

805
00:39:18,718 --> 00:39:21,598
Speaker 3: to babbaloo, bob clear, reverse your elbows, like the left

806
00:39:21,638 --> 00:39:23,398
Speaker 3: elbows got to come down, the right elbow's got to

807
00:39:23,398 --> 00:39:25,998
Speaker 3: come up and over to get to that particular pitch.

808
00:39:25,998 --> 00:39:29,718
Speaker 3: I'm just curious if he changed equipment on that particular

809
00:39:29,798 --> 00:39:30,918
Speaker 3: da I'd be curious about that.

810
00:39:31,158 --> 00:39:33,278
Speaker 2: Well, if it was a torpedo bat, I think we

811
00:39:33,358 --> 00:39:35,318
Speaker 2: would have heard about it absolutely.

812
00:39:35,318 --> 00:39:37,918
Speaker 3: I just wonder if it's lighter, I would shorter and

813
00:39:37,998 --> 00:39:39,398
Speaker 3: lighter would be where I would go with it.

814
00:39:39,758 --> 00:39:42,438
Speaker 2: Which brings me to the National League West Joe with

815
00:39:42,478 --> 00:39:45,598
Speaker 2: the Arizona Diamondbacks. They're legit. We know that from last

816
00:39:45,678 --> 00:39:47,998
Speaker 2: year they won eighty nine games last year with Giants

817
00:39:47,998 --> 00:39:50,478
Speaker 2: are taking off. We know about how good the Dodgers are.

818
00:39:50,518 --> 00:39:53,078
Speaker 2: But now they have Glass now, Tyler Glass now joining

819
00:39:53,078 --> 00:39:57,398
Speaker 2: Blake Snell on the IL Dodgers actually look vulnerable. And

820
00:39:57,438 --> 00:40:00,678
Speaker 2: we know this is a deep division. Who in that

821
00:40:00,758 --> 00:40:03,638
Speaker 2: division do you think can push the Dodgers to make

822
00:40:03,678 --> 00:40:06,638
Speaker 2: this you know, inevitable march that we thought for the

823
00:40:06,678 --> 00:40:08,518
Speaker 2: Dodgers to get back to the World Series to be

824
00:40:08,558 --> 00:40:11,278
Speaker 2: more difficult. I like the Giants yet San Diego, San

825
00:40:11,358 --> 00:40:12,838
Speaker 2: Francisco and Arizona.

826
00:40:12,998 --> 00:40:15,718
Speaker 3: I like the Giants, I do. I like what they're doing.

827
00:40:16,878 --> 00:40:19,598
Speaker 3: I mean, I think philosophically, I like what they're doing

828
00:40:19,638 --> 00:40:22,598
Speaker 3: a lot. I was talking to Marcel Lashman about it yesterday.

829
00:40:22,598 --> 00:40:24,638
Speaker 3: I talked to Mark Marcell. I haven't spoken to him

830
00:40:24,638 --> 00:40:28,758
Speaker 3: in a while, but the combination of Posey Bowmeil, and

831
00:40:28,798 --> 00:40:30,638
Speaker 3: he brought up is it Randy Winn running the minor

832
00:40:30,678 --> 00:40:32,398
Speaker 3: league system there? Now? Are you aware of that?

833
00:40:32,678 --> 00:40:35,158
Speaker 1: I think he is back buster brought back a lot

834
00:40:35,158 --> 00:40:36,878
Speaker 1: of guys that he played with with the Giants in

835
00:40:36,998 --> 00:40:40,878
Speaker 1: various roles, even as advisors. And you're right, they're playing

836
00:40:41,118 --> 00:40:44,278
Speaker 1: a different style of baseball. They were so much by

837
00:40:44,318 --> 00:40:47,158
Speaker 1: the book and trying to get every analytical edge.

838
00:40:47,598 --> 00:40:49,638
Speaker 2: They turned over the roster a lot. I've talked to

839
00:40:49,638 --> 00:40:50,518
Speaker 2: Bomel about this.

840
00:40:51,118 --> 00:40:53,798
Speaker 1: You know, he's a big believer instability, and finally they're

841
00:40:53,838 --> 00:40:57,118
Speaker 1: letting the rosters settle. He's not changing the lineup every

842
00:40:57,158 --> 00:41:01,398
Speaker 1: single day based on some incremental edge, and it's showing

843
00:41:01,478 --> 00:41:03,798
Speaker 1: up with the way this team is playing. As he says,

844
00:41:04,438 --> 00:41:06,158
Speaker 1: if we stay close to you in a game, we

845
00:41:06,278 --> 00:41:07,838
Speaker 1: got a good chance of winning. They're winning a lot

846
00:41:07,878 --> 00:41:08,438
Speaker 1: of games late.

847
00:41:08,678 --> 00:41:10,598
Speaker 3: Yeah. I like all of that, and I think this

848
00:41:10,678 --> 00:41:13,358
Speaker 3: is what I think the industry needs right now, is

849
00:41:13,518 --> 00:41:16,758
Speaker 3: a more tried and true method to create some balance

850
00:41:17,318 --> 00:41:21,678
Speaker 3: regarding the the the what's being taught, and what's being

851
00:41:22,518 --> 00:41:26,038
Speaker 3: sought after. I just like what they're doing. I like

852
00:41:26,038 --> 00:41:28,158
Speaker 3: their approach. I watched them on TV a couple of times.

853
00:41:28,198 --> 00:41:30,478
Speaker 3: There's like an attitude about them that I really enjoy.

854
00:41:31,038 --> 00:41:33,398
Speaker 3: It looks like they're uninhibited when they play right now.

855
00:41:33,478 --> 00:41:37,598
Speaker 3: I think that's part of what I'm seeing. But I

856
00:41:37,678 --> 00:41:42,518
Speaker 3: like the structure. I like Buster to Bill Mill to Randy.

857
00:41:42,518 --> 00:41:44,638
Speaker 3: I like that a lot. I think that there's there's

858
00:41:44,678 --> 00:41:46,918
Speaker 3: something to be said for that. And I think the

859
00:41:46,958 --> 00:41:52,318
Speaker 3: players they they know who to ask a question of,

860
00:41:52,398 --> 00:41:55,038
Speaker 3: and whoever they're asking the question of, feels free to

861
00:41:55,078 --> 00:41:57,358
Speaker 3: answer it. If that's probably the best way I could

862
00:41:57,398 --> 00:41:59,998
Speaker 3: say it, I would bet on that because you don't

863
00:42:00,038 --> 00:42:02,118
Speaker 3: have to like, well, I'll get back to you on this,

864
00:42:02,158 --> 00:42:05,638
Speaker 3: because they've got to seek a high authority within a

865
00:42:05,758 --> 00:42:13,078
Speaker 3: hierarchy to run this question by. It's kind of a emasculating.

866
00:42:13,118 --> 00:42:14,798
Speaker 3: It just doesn't feel right, just as I feel good.

867
00:42:14,798 --> 00:42:17,038
Speaker 3: But a lot of people feel that way right now.

868
00:42:17,478 --> 00:42:20,998
Speaker 3: So question ask question answered. I think people have been

869
00:42:20,998 --> 00:42:24,278
Speaker 3: empowered to do their jobs right there, and I'm pulling

870
00:42:24,278 --> 00:42:26,238
Speaker 3: for them. I like them. I love Bowmell. I think

871
00:42:26,278 --> 00:42:28,958
Speaker 3: he's outstanding. So I'm pulling for this group to get

872
00:42:28,958 --> 00:42:31,558
Speaker 3: it done. I just like what they've done, and I

873
00:42:31,678 --> 00:42:33,358
Speaker 3: like to I'd like for it to set an example

874
00:42:33,398 --> 00:42:34,358
Speaker 3: for the rest of the industry.

875
00:42:34,638 --> 00:42:37,318
Speaker 1: And listen, I still think the Dodgers are the chalk here.

876
00:42:37,358 --> 00:42:39,078
Speaker 1: I think they're going to be okay. But I gotta

877
00:42:39,118 --> 00:42:42,198
Speaker 1: tell you, Joe, there's some I don't want to say

878
00:42:41,838 --> 00:42:45,398
Speaker 1: worry some parts here, but they're concerning parts for the Dodgers.

879
00:42:45,518 --> 00:42:47,158
Speaker 2: They look a little bit old. You know.

880
00:42:47,398 --> 00:42:50,558
Speaker 1: Muki had that illness early, and his batspeed just simply

881
00:42:50,638 --> 00:42:53,038
Speaker 1: is not there. Freddie Freeman with the ankle injury has

882
00:42:53,118 --> 00:42:55,878
Speaker 1: not been the same. Max Munsey just does not look

883
00:42:55,918 --> 00:43:00,038
Speaker 1: the same hit or even defensively. Some issues there. We

884
00:43:00,198 --> 00:43:02,238
Speaker 1: talked about the pitching and some of the injuries there.

885
00:43:02,278 --> 00:43:04,318
Speaker 1: They always seem to be short of pitching, always start

886
00:43:04,358 --> 00:43:06,398
Speaker 1: the year with a million pitchers and all quickly. They're

887
00:43:06,438 --> 00:43:09,318
Speaker 1: short of pitching. Uh, they don't get enough innings from

888
00:43:09,318 --> 00:43:11,918
Speaker 1: their starters. They rely on their bullpen way too much.

889
00:43:12,478 --> 00:43:12,598
Speaker 3: Uh.

890
00:43:12,758 --> 00:43:14,918
Speaker 1: They pitch everybody on the six or seventh day, So

891
00:43:14,918 --> 00:43:17,798
Speaker 1: they're always looking for stop gap starters to drop in there.

892
00:43:17,798 --> 00:43:19,118
Speaker 2: And they drop in, they drop out.

893
00:43:20,158 --> 00:43:22,278
Speaker 1: I just think it's it feels like a slog with

894
00:43:22,358 --> 00:43:25,118
Speaker 1: the Dodgers right now, Joe. I don't get the sense

895
00:43:25,158 --> 00:43:27,478
Speaker 1: that this team, like you mentioned with the Giants, the

896
00:43:27,478 --> 00:43:29,638
Speaker 1: way things are clicking, I just don't get the sense

897
00:43:29,718 --> 00:43:33,078
Speaker 1: there's stability here to let this team go on a run.

898
00:43:33,398 --> 00:43:35,478
Speaker 3: Yeah, they got you know, when Showy comes back and

899
00:43:35,518 --> 00:43:37,798
Speaker 3: actually pitches. Whenever that occurs, I think that's going to

900
00:43:37,838 --> 00:43:40,038
Speaker 3: be a lip. But these other guys keep getting injured

901
00:43:40,438 --> 00:43:42,518
Speaker 3: and it's been part of their DNA over the past

902
00:43:42,558 --> 00:43:44,398
Speaker 3: couple of years because they've got great arms and they

903
00:43:44,438 --> 00:43:46,798
Speaker 3: got a lot of them, plenty of them, but they

904
00:43:46,798 --> 00:43:50,318
Speaker 3: do seem to get hurt. Just the last year in general,

905
00:43:50,438 --> 00:43:53,998
Speaker 3: and the publicity coming into this season, there's there's there

906
00:43:54,038 --> 00:43:58,798
Speaker 3: is definitely a hangover that's that's there right now. And

907
00:43:58,838 --> 00:44:01,238
Speaker 3: I use the word baseball boredom earlier this year and

908
00:44:01,278 --> 00:44:04,678
Speaker 3: another with Brian Kenney on him be a Network. I

909
00:44:04,718 --> 00:44:07,158
Speaker 3: just think there's some of that going on there. You know,

910
00:44:07,238 --> 00:44:09,078
Speaker 3: got off to the great start. They go to Japan,

911
00:44:09,158 --> 00:44:12,358
Speaker 3: a lot of excitement, but everything they've done and who

912
00:44:12,398 --> 00:44:15,598
Speaker 3: they are, the you know, the Beatles, the Rolling Stones,

913
00:44:15,638 --> 00:44:19,118
Speaker 3: whatever they are. Right now, it's it's early and the games,

914
00:44:19,198 --> 00:44:22,118
Speaker 3: you know, they're Bajor League games. It's the ballparks are packed.

915
00:44:22,158 --> 00:44:25,078
Speaker 3: I get it, But I have to believe a lot

916
00:44:25,078 --> 00:44:27,198
Speaker 3: of these guys are adrenaline junkies and they're just gonna

917
00:44:27,198 --> 00:44:29,038
Speaker 3: have to be pushed a little bit more. And I

918
00:44:29,038 --> 00:44:33,238
Speaker 3: think as they get pushed, moving it forward, you're going

919
00:44:33,318 --> 00:44:35,718
Speaker 3: to see they're gonna win somehow. They have. They have

920
00:44:35,798 --> 00:44:38,038
Speaker 3: all these guys that are veterans that know how to play.

921
00:44:38,038 --> 00:44:40,398
Speaker 3: They ought to win. So maybe in spite of a

922
00:44:40,478 --> 00:44:43,118
Speaker 3: months he's really struggling, he's still going to do something

923
00:44:43,278 --> 00:44:45,518
Speaker 3: big in a big moment to help them win on

924
00:44:45,558 --> 00:44:47,918
Speaker 3: a particular night, and so is the rest of the group.

925
00:44:48,118 --> 00:44:50,678
Speaker 3: They're all going to come back and play to their level,

926
00:44:50,878 --> 00:44:53,798
Speaker 3: barring any kind of significant injury. So I think they're

927
00:44:53,798 --> 00:44:57,438
Speaker 3: getting over some kind of a fog, you know, posts

928
00:44:57,518 --> 00:45:00,998
Speaker 3: last season, fogging with everybody just you know, telling them

929
00:45:01,038 --> 00:45:03,718
Speaker 3: how wonderful they are. They'll get by that. But I

930
00:45:03,718 --> 00:45:05,638
Speaker 3: think think that's what they're working on right now, so

931
00:45:06,118 --> 00:45:08,158
Speaker 3: give them a little bit more time. I've been involved

932
00:45:08,158 --> 00:45:12,118
Speaker 3: in situations like this post World Series kind of stuff

933
00:45:12,118 --> 00:45:16,678
Speaker 3: where you really it's not easy for some a lot

934
00:45:16,678 --> 00:45:18,918
Speaker 3: of guys or groups to just really get right back

935
00:45:18,998 --> 00:45:22,078
Speaker 3: into it. They will, so I think that's what's going on.

936
00:45:22,078 --> 00:45:24,198
Speaker 3: I think they got a little fog going on, and

937
00:45:24,238 --> 00:45:27,718
Speaker 3: I think they'll shake it. They'll come back strong. But

938
00:45:27,838 --> 00:45:30,038
Speaker 3: these other teams, they're giving them too much of a

939
00:45:30,038 --> 00:45:32,358
Speaker 3: foothold right now and they might be difficult to get

940
00:45:32,398 --> 00:45:33,358
Speaker 3: out of the way. Yeah.

941
00:45:33,398 --> 00:45:35,598
Speaker 1: I like that to what you called a fog there

942
00:45:35,718 --> 00:45:39,558
Speaker 1: or baseball boredom. You take me back to after your

943
00:45:39,598 --> 00:45:43,278
Speaker 1: team with the Cubs beat the Cleveland team Terry Francona's

944
00:45:43,318 --> 00:45:46,358
Speaker 1: team in the sixteen World Series, and Terry mentioned to

945
00:45:46,438 --> 00:45:48,198
Speaker 1: me the next year or that, you know, guys are

946
00:45:48,238 --> 00:45:51,358
Speaker 1: still trying hard, but there's something missing when you come back,

947
00:45:51,398 --> 00:45:54,118
Speaker 1: he said, every game that we played was intense. We're

948
00:45:54,118 --> 00:45:57,518
Speaker 1: talking about playing October baseball. Then you come back the

949
00:45:57,558 --> 00:46:00,798
Speaker 1: next year, it's April. It's a long season. You just

950
00:46:00,918 --> 00:46:03,318
Speaker 1: don't have that same sort of edge that you had

951
00:46:03,358 --> 00:46:06,918
Speaker 1: from playing these you know, winner go home games, packed houses,

952
00:46:07,078 --> 00:46:10,998
Speaker 1: the energy, the adrenaline, everything on the line. It's just

953
00:46:11,078 --> 00:46:13,918
Speaker 1: a different environment and the vibe. And we all can say, well,

954
00:46:13,958 --> 00:46:15,838
Speaker 1: they all count the same, you should all try just

955
00:46:15,838 --> 00:46:18,238
Speaker 1: as hard. But it's human nature that the edge just

956
00:46:18,238 --> 00:46:19,998
Speaker 1: simply isn't there. And I think you nailed it on

957
00:46:20,038 --> 00:46:22,798
Speaker 1: the Dodgers, Joe. I think they know they're a good team,

958
00:46:22,918 --> 00:46:27,118
Speaker 1: they're certainly not panicked, but at the same time, they

959
00:46:27,238 --> 00:46:29,158
Speaker 1: just don't have that same edge.

960
00:46:29,158 --> 00:46:31,678
Speaker 2: It's just human nature. And as you said, you've lived it.

961
00:46:31,918 --> 00:46:35,838
Speaker 3: Yeah, and a big fan of all kinds of sports history.

962
00:46:36,478 --> 00:46:39,438
Speaker 3: You need Larry Bird, you need Michael Jordan, you need

963
00:46:39,478 --> 00:46:42,998
Speaker 3: Magic Johnson, you need Tom Brady, you need Derek Jeter.

964
00:46:44,118 --> 00:46:47,078
Speaker 3: You know, there's that one guy. Now. I know Freddie

965
00:46:47,078 --> 00:46:49,478
Speaker 3: Freeman has a great reputation, and Rooki's really good and

966
00:46:49,518 --> 00:46:52,238
Speaker 3: all that stuff and show a show. Hey, but when

967
00:46:52,278 --> 00:46:55,238
Speaker 3: I really listen to or read about these other guys,

968
00:46:55,278 --> 00:47:01,798
Speaker 3: they were so possessed, possessed of winning constantly, regardless of

969
00:47:01,838 --> 00:47:05,838
Speaker 3: what happened the previous year. They did see it with

970
00:47:05,918 --> 00:47:08,558
Speaker 3: first time eyes, and they did feel first time passion

971
00:47:08,718 --> 00:47:12,798
Speaker 3: annually they were so driven, So I really to be

972
00:47:13,598 --> 00:47:16,998
Speaker 3: in a hunt annually and not show any kind of

973
00:47:17,118 --> 00:47:19,238
Speaker 3: wear and tear. I think a lot of it has

974
00:47:19,278 --> 00:47:23,118
Speaker 3: to do with having that one beast within your group,

975
00:47:23,198 --> 00:47:26,878
Speaker 3: the one the one athlete player, the true leader by

976
00:47:26,918 --> 00:47:29,198
Speaker 3: example that just is not going to be denied and

977
00:47:29,278 --> 00:47:33,998
Speaker 3: he's never satiated because he never can be satiated. And

978
00:47:34,038 --> 00:47:36,998
Speaker 3: I think that's what some groups are missing or which

979
00:47:37,038 --> 00:47:39,758
Speaker 3: prevents I mean, we were good in seventeen. We got

980
00:47:39,758 --> 00:47:41,838
Speaker 3: all the way back to the CS, had a tough plane,

981
00:47:41,878 --> 00:47:45,438
Speaker 3: right and that an Albuquerque spent the night before we

982
00:47:45,438 --> 00:47:47,158
Speaker 3: went to LA and that really hurt us, I thought,

983
00:47:47,238 --> 00:47:51,518
Speaker 3: momentum wise, so and fifteen was just a glorious year

984
00:47:51,558 --> 00:47:54,278
Speaker 3: that we just built into sixteen. But there's there's a

985
00:47:54,318 --> 00:47:56,478
Speaker 3: lot of that. There's a lot of that that needs

986
00:47:56,518 --> 00:47:59,158
Speaker 3: to be a tenant to paid attention to having that

987
00:47:59,318 --> 00:48:02,918
Speaker 3: savage on your within your group that just will not

988
00:48:03,238 --> 00:48:05,718
Speaker 3: permit you to relaxed. That's what you need.

989
00:48:06,078 --> 00:48:08,478
Speaker 1: Well, that's the National League West, which I think is

990
00:48:08,878 --> 00:48:10,558
Speaker 1: one of the bigger stories of the first month of

991
00:48:10,558 --> 00:48:12,798
Speaker 1: the season. Joe is just the depth of that division

992
00:48:12,958 --> 00:48:15,518
Speaker 1: and they're going to start playing each other. The kind

993
00:48:15,518 --> 00:48:17,958
Speaker 1: of intramurals part of the schedule is coming up with

994
00:48:18,038 --> 00:48:20,358
Speaker 1: the when they're going ahead to head. We haven't seen

995
00:48:20,438 --> 00:48:23,198
Speaker 1: much of that the Dodgers and the Padres that played

996
00:48:23,198 --> 00:48:25,918
Speaker 1: the Rockies, but that's been about it up until now.

997
00:48:26,118 --> 00:48:29,118
Speaker 1: We'll start seeing head to head competition. That should be

998
00:48:29,318 --> 00:48:32,998
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. Which brings us to our ninth

999
00:48:33,038 --> 00:48:34,318
Speaker 1: inning and Joe Madden.

1000
00:48:34,078 --> 00:48:35,598
Speaker 2: You have the ball to close it out. What do

1001
00:48:35,638 --> 00:48:36,638
Speaker 2: you have for us today?

1002
00:48:36,878 --> 00:48:41,918
Speaker 3: I'm being selfish today. Sorry, that's allowed, Okay, I'm today

1003
00:48:41,958 --> 00:48:45,278
Speaker 3: we drive back to Pennsylvania. Our trek begins back to

1004
00:48:46,158 --> 00:48:50,078
Speaker 3: where civilization began, the cradle of the cradle of civilization

1005
00:48:50,278 --> 00:48:53,558
Speaker 3: with the Eastern Pennsylvania. So I got a little nostalgic

1006
00:48:53,598 --> 00:48:55,598
Speaker 3: with that, and I found some cool little things I

1007
00:48:55,638 --> 00:48:57,998
Speaker 3: think appeals to everybody. I got to go with two

1008
00:48:57,998 --> 00:49:00,878
Speaker 3: of them today. Number one, the magic thing about home

1009
00:49:01,358 --> 00:49:03,718
Speaker 3: is that it feels good to leave, and it feels

1010
00:49:03,718 --> 00:49:05,678
Speaker 3: eve and better to come back. And that's where I'm

1011
00:49:05,678 --> 00:49:08,758
Speaker 3: at right now. It's Tampa's like my second home. I

1012
00:49:08,758 --> 00:49:11,638
Speaker 3: love coming down here. It's the best. Had a wonderful

1013
00:49:11,678 --> 00:49:14,198
Speaker 3: time down here, friends. I got friends down here, a

1014
00:49:14,238 --> 00:49:16,078
Speaker 3: little bit of family around in the area too, But

1015
00:49:16,518 --> 00:49:19,358
Speaker 3: there's nothing like going back home. And then I love

1016
00:49:19,438 --> 00:49:21,998
Speaker 3: this one too. Home is not a place, it's a

1017
00:49:22,038 --> 00:49:25,718
Speaker 3: feeling and it's true, you know, you just you start

1018
00:49:25,718 --> 00:49:30,558
Speaker 3: imagining that special room, you know, the morning, the golf

1019
00:49:30,558 --> 00:49:32,958
Speaker 3: cart going down to the driving range in the morning,

1020
00:49:33,718 --> 00:49:36,278
Speaker 3: steak cooking a really good steak on the grill in

1021
00:49:36,318 --> 00:49:38,878
Speaker 3: the back car, of me, coming by my sister, going

1022
00:49:38,958 --> 00:49:40,598
Speaker 3: up to see my mom being me up on the hill.

1023
00:49:41,518 --> 00:49:44,558
Speaker 3: It's just, it's just it's a feeling, the thought that

1024
00:49:44,918 --> 00:49:46,958
Speaker 3: a feeling that never leaves. So home is not a place.

1025
00:49:47,038 --> 00:49:47,638
Speaker 3: It's a feeling.

1026
00:49:47,918 --> 00:49:48,518
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

1027
00:49:48,678 --> 00:49:51,038
Speaker 1: I love that, and it's amazing how there are certain

1028
00:49:51,478 --> 00:49:53,678
Speaker 1: memories and for me it's a lot of times, Joe

1029
00:49:53,718 --> 00:49:56,318
Speaker 1: is the smells, right, YEA talking about maybe the fresh

1030
00:49:56,318 --> 00:49:57,438
Speaker 1: cut grass or whatever.

1031
00:49:57,518 --> 00:49:59,198
Speaker 2: It's a certain time of year.

1032
00:49:59,398 --> 00:50:01,758
Speaker 1: I feel that, even in the fall, when it comes

1033
00:50:01,798 --> 00:50:04,518
Speaker 1: time with a start a football practice. You know, just

1034
00:50:04,758 --> 00:50:08,278
Speaker 1: there's something about the air, the smell of the things

1035
00:50:08,278 --> 00:50:12,358
Speaker 1: around you, and it's just it's so funny how smells,

1036
00:50:12,398 --> 00:50:16,318
Speaker 1: that sensory feeling becomes so much a part of what

1037
00:50:16,358 --> 00:50:17,998
Speaker 1: you think about when it comes to home.

1038
00:50:19,038 --> 00:50:23,198
Speaker 3: Percent the scent of being home right, I cannot agree

1039
00:50:23,198 --> 00:50:26,078
Speaker 3: with you more. Just like picking a tomato plant and

1040
00:50:26,078 --> 00:50:28,158
Speaker 3: that that residue, that smell that left on your hand.

1041
00:50:28,198 --> 00:50:30,518
Speaker 3: I can't wait to grow the tomatoes for this year.

1042
00:50:30,998 --> 00:50:32,878
Speaker 3: I love to cut the grass weirdly I do. I

1043
00:50:32,918 --> 00:50:34,558
Speaker 3: go play golf, I come back and take care of

1044
00:50:34,598 --> 00:50:36,838
Speaker 3: the yard. I love that. I've always been like a

1045
00:50:37,958 --> 00:50:42,318
Speaker 3: practicing amateur agronomous for years. I love all of that stuff.

1046
00:50:42,358 --> 00:50:45,238
Speaker 3: And even when at the old ballpark, man, when they

1047
00:50:45,238 --> 00:50:46,998
Speaker 3: would cut the grass the day they would cut the grass,

1048
00:50:46,998 --> 00:50:50,798
Speaker 3: although it might bother me allergy wise, something in my

1049
00:50:50,918 --> 00:50:53,398
Speaker 3: nose and favorite like reach down to pick up a

1050
00:50:53,438 --> 00:50:55,638
Speaker 3: ball and then scratch the dryer, I'd start burning because

1051
00:50:55,638 --> 00:50:58,078
Speaker 3: of the grass on the ball. Whatever. But all those

1052
00:50:58,118 --> 00:51:00,518
Speaker 3: things are important, man, and I'm really looking forward to

1053
00:51:00,838 --> 00:51:01,878
Speaker 3: becoming reacquainted.

1054
00:51:02,278 --> 00:51:04,158
Speaker 1: It makes me think of my favorite time I'm at

1055
00:51:04,198 --> 00:51:07,038
Speaker 1: a ballpark, Joe, And it really doesn't happen anymore. Is

1056
00:51:07,078 --> 00:51:10,198
Speaker 1: you get out early for batting practice, early batting practice,

1057
00:51:10,438 --> 00:51:13,678
Speaker 1: and there's no organ being played, there's no music being played.

1058
00:51:14,198 --> 00:51:16,998
Speaker 1: All you hear is just the sound of the ball

1059
00:51:17,078 --> 00:51:19,558
Speaker 1: hitting off the bat and just resonating. If you'l like,

1060
00:51:20,078 --> 00:51:22,998
Speaker 1: you know, you're at Carnegie Hall and somebody doing going

1061
00:51:23,038 --> 00:51:25,758
Speaker 1: through their warm ups before the crowd gets in. Very

1062
00:51:25,838 --> 00:51:28,478
Speaker 1: rarely happens anymore. There's so much music and noise at

1063
00:51:28,478 --> 00:51:31,198
Speaker 1: a ballpark. I kind of miss those times where it's

1064
00:51:31,278 --> 00:51:33,278
Speaker 1: it literally is just the sound of the bat.

1065
00:51:33,638 --> 00:51:36,638
Speaker 3: Agreed to one hundred percent. I love the driving throughout

1066
00:51:36,638 --> 00:51:39,358
Speaker 3: Pennsylvania when I get back right now, just doing different

1067
00:51:39,398 --> 00:51:42,838
Speaker 3: things and you run into like a ballpark, a little

1068
00:51:43,518 --> 00:51:45,998
Speaker 3: field with a backstop on in the middle of nowhere,

1069
00:51:46,558 --> 00:51:48,598
Speaker 3: And to me, that is the essence. I don't know

1070
00:51:48,638 --> 00:51:52,758
Speaker 3: that enough of us remember all that, or enough of

1071
00:51:52,798 --> 00:51:56,038
Speaker 3: us appreciate that even today when I see an isolated

1072
00:51:56,078 --> 00:51:59,358
Speaker 3: ballpark somewhere, to me, that's what this is all about.

1073
00:51:59,398 --> 00:52:01,958
Speaker 3: That's what our game is all about. And that's one

1074
00:52:01,958 --> 00:52:04,678
Speaker 3: thing I hope we would never forget. Should not be

1075
00:52:05,078 --> 00:52:08,438
Speaker 3: remember to sell glitzy and glamorous and control. It should

1076
00:52:08,438 --> 00:52:12,718
Speaker 3: be that field, you know, hopefully eighteen kids showing up,

1077
00:52:13,078 --> 00:52:15,718
Speaker 3: maybe ten whatever, and you divide up into two and

1078
00:52:15,758 --> 00:52:19,038
Speaker 3: play a game out there, no parents around, nobody there

1079
00:52:19,078 --> 00:52:21,958
Speaker 3: to organize this whole thing. Just go play, just have

1080
00:52:22,038 --> 00:52:24,438
Speaker 3: some fun. Play of the game and learn. Let's just

1081
00:52:24,518 --> 00:52:26,118
Speaker 3: learn how to hit a baseball and how to throw

1082
00:52:26,118 --> 00:52:28,798
Speaker 3: it accurately, how to pick up a ground up ball

1083
00:52:28,838 --> 00:52:32,638
Speaker 3: on a rocky field, all those things. That's what I

1084
00:52:32,638 --> 00:52:34,718
Speaker 3: love about driving around P eight when I get back

1085
00:52:34,758 --> 00:52:35,638
Speaker 3: home this time of the year.

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00:52:36,158 --> 00:52:38,558
Speaker 1: Great stuff, Joe, We'll see you next time on the

1087
00:52:38,598 --> 00:52:41,598
Speaker 1: Book of Joe from beautiful Pennsylvania.

1088
00:52:41,638 --> 00:52:44,638
Speaker 3: That's a hey you. That's right, Thanks Tommy, you will, buddy.

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00:52:51,958 --> 00:52:55,198
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

1090
00:52:55,398 --> 00:53:00,398
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1091
00:53:00,518 --> 00:53:02,278
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