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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Bloomberg Tech is alive

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Speaker 1: from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York

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Speaker 1: and Eva Low in San Francisco.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech coming up. Escalating trade tensions between

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Speaker 2: China and the US and now Europe too, will discuss

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Speaker 2: what the latest trade showdown means for the tech sector.

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Speaker 3: US concerns of an AI bubble grow louder among global

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Speaker 3: fund managers, will discuss the valuation anxiety in their latest

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Speaker 3: Bag of America survey.

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Speaker 2: And Instagram makes some changes with tighter content restrictions for teenagers.

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Speaker 2: Will discussed with Instagram's global director of Policy.

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Speaker 3: But first to check in on these public markets, and

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Speaker 3: once again, anxiety returns to the four We are worried

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Speaker 3: about US, China, Europe, China and the trade tit for

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Speaker 3: tat that really moves out into the world of shipping.

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Speaker 3: We're down nine tens percent on the index of the

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Speaker 3: NASA one hundred, but bitcoin crypto in the eye of

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Speaker 3: the storm and one hundred and fifty billion dollars wiped

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Speaker 3: out in terms of market cap. Across the industry. We

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Speaker 3: see margin call's leverage flush out. It really is a dal.

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Speaker 4: Up of worries when it comes to geopolitical risk.

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Speaker 2: Here, Okay, let's get to our top story. Treasurary Secretary

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Speaker 2: Scott Besson said he still expects Presidents Trump and Jijingping

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Speaker 2: to meet, though China's latest escalation in that trade conflict

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Speaker 2: between the world's two largest economies raises questions about all

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Speaker 2: issues can be resolved before that meeting. Bloomberg Senior Technology

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Speaker 2: editor Mike Shepherd joins us, Mike, what do we need

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Speaker 2: to know? What's the latest on those US China trade talks.

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Speaker 5: Well, the latest really is that China is hitting the

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Speaker 5: gas rather than hitting the break now, as the two

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Speaker 5: sides prepared to meet to discuss these ahead of a

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Speaker 5: possible summit between Presidents Donald Trump and shujiin Ping, China.

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Speaker 5: Earlier today unveiled new measures aimed at US shipping, saying

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Speaker 5: a South Korean company with strong US ties and the

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Speaker 5: US operations of that venture Hanua, and then also unveiling

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Speaker 5: other possible por fees. This is the latest escalation in

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Speaker 5: an area where Beijing feels like it has an advantage

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Speaker 5: over the supply chain. China is has been the world's

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Speaker 5: largest shipbuilder since twenty seventeen, and it follows the last

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Speaker 5: week's move where China imposed new export controls on sales

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Speaker 5: rare earths minerals to the US and to other countries

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Speaker 5: around the world. Again another area where they have a

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Speaker 5: hold on the supply chain. And even as Sacott Bessant

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Speaker 5: is saying that he sees the prospects for a meeting

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Speaker 5: between Donald Trump and Hijimping, he has also indicated that

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Speaker 5: he sees China's moves against rare earths and he hasn't

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Speaker 5: commented yet on the shipping decision by China, but he

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Speaker 5: sees those steps as aiming at Bazooka at the global

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Speaker 5: supply chain, and it is not the tone you would

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Speaker 5: expect the two sides to be striking as they try

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Speaker 5: to reach some sort of an agreement.

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Speaker 3: The global supply chain is key, and Mike Europe really

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Speaker 3: considering what its own options are where leverage can be

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Speaker 3: applied to protect its own manufacturers because the rare earth

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Speaker 3: implications are large for them too.

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Speaker 5: The rare Earth's implications are huge, and they're looking at

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Speaker 5: at a number of fronts. One area of particular concern,

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Speaker 5: of course, has been the vehicle industry and electric vehicles

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Speaker 5: more specifically, and what the EU is considering now is

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Speaker 5: whether to require Chinese firms that want to operate within

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Speaker 5: the block to share technology. And this is sort of

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Speaker 5: taking a page from Beijing's own playbook. Any foreign company

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Speaker 5: that wanted to do business with the Chinese partner in

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Speaker 5: mainland China had to share technology with that partner as

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Speaker 5: really the price of admission, and the EU is now

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Speaker 5: considering the same, and it is worried because it is

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Speaker 5: seeing byd make such inroads into the European market and

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Speaker 5: putting some of the European makers and their own EV

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Speaker 5: ambitions in jeopardy now would require not only the sharing

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Speaker 5: of technology, but this also joins CARA other steps that

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Speaker 5: are aimed at trying to rein in China on the continent,

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Speaker 5: and that includes a doubling last week of tariffs on

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Speaker 5: steel imports, clearly a move aimed at China. And this

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Speaker 5: also follows something that we were covering very closely over

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Speaker 5: the past two days, the Dutch decision to seize Nexperia

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Speaker 5: from its Chinese owner, Wingtech, a venture that was subject

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Speaker 5: to possible US sanctions. We learned today if it did

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Speaker 5: not replace its Chinese CEO, and that prompted the government

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Speaker 5: of the Dutch government to move and to seize control

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Speaker 5: of the local Nexperia from its Chinese parent.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Mike Sheppard, thank you very much. Let's get more

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Speaker 2: details in the story Mike mentioned. China retaliates after the

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Speaker 2: Dutch government invoked a Cold War era law to take

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Speaker 2: control of chip maker Nextperia, with Beijing now blocking Nexperia

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Speaker 2: and its subcontractors from exporting products from the Asian nation.

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Speaker 2: The company is a s theory of China's wing tech

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Speaker 2: technology and a key supplier of mature chips used by

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Speaker 2: the automotive and consumer electronic industries.

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Speaker 3: Carat Now, I look these US China trade tensions and

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Speaker 3: European China trade tensions clearly weighing and cross risk assets.

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Speaker 3: Most notably though, crypto It continued to lose ground after

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Speaker 3: our historic round of liquidations that triggered a sharp sell

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Speaker 3: off over the weekend. Remember look, bitcoin is in a

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Speaker 3: technical correction. The market value of all cryptocurrencies felled by

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Speaker 3: more than one hundred and fifty billion over the last

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Speaker 3: twenty four hour period, according to coin Gecko data. Personal

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Speaker 3: we turned to is Bloomberg's baby Lipshals covers tech assets

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Speaker 3: for US, and this is washing out the leverage from

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Speaker 3: the system.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, washing out the leverage. You have people getting margin called.

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Speaker 7: The thing that's interesting with crypto when you talk to

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Speaker 7: your kind of regular joe crypto trader, they sometimes use

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Speaker 7: fifty times leverage, which means that if they're that leverage

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Speaker 7: and you see any type of pullback, they don't get

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Speaker 7: to say, oh, actually, let me try to get some

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Speaker 7: massets together, they immediately get margin called. That's when you

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Speaker 7: see some of this leverage be fleshed out so quickly.

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Speaker 7: And this comes back to the debate twenty four to

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Speaker 7: seven trading. If you're asleep or taking a weekend off

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Speaker 7: to watch some college football, and all of a sudden

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Speaker 7: Bitcoin pulls back, well, guess what, your portfolio just.

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Speaker 6: Got blown up.

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Speaker 7: And that is something that we saw really happen and

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Speaker 7: play out over the weekend. And when you see the

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Speaker 7: back and forth with the US and China, we're going

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Speaker 7: to continue to see this volatility.

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Speaker 6: Bailey.

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Speaker 2: One of the best read stories on the Bloomberg terminal

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Speaker 2: and on the website is the latest Bank of America

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Speaker 2: fund manager survey, and in particular the focus on how

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Speaker 2: the market feels about AI valuations and equity markets.

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Speaker 6: What do we need to know?

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Speaker 7: You look at it and say that are there fears

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Speaker 7: of a bubble? Looking at that fifty four percent of

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Speaker 7: participants in that October pool pointing to tech stocks being

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Speaker 7: too expensive. You look at the Nasdaq one hundred forward

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Speaker 7: pe nearly twenty eight versus an average over the last

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Speaker 7: decade of twenty three. So all signs do point to overvaluation.

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Speaker 7: When I talk to portfolio managers, the question is where

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Speaker 7: you allocating capital? Is it that mag seven plus Broadcom?

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Speaker 7: And also if we're going to say that, hey, this

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Speaker 7: is a market could be overvalued, these are investors who

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Speaker 7: get paid to at least outperform their peers. So when

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Speaker 7: you see where stocks have been trading for the last

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Speaker 7: six months, or even if you go back to that

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Speaker 7: April bottom, if you missed out on the immediate snapback,

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Speaker 7: you kind of continue to buy even if you.

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Speaker 6: Think the stock market is overvalued.

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Speaker 7: We see investors kind of bending over backwards, doing some

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Speaker 7: mental gymnastics, saying, Okay, well maybe it's overvalued on the

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Speaker 7: forward price to earnings, but if we really look out

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Speaker 7: to twenty twenty eight, well, what does Nvidia look like

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Speaker 7: then then they're justifying buying now. But there's so much

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Speaker 7: talk about fraud, and we've seen it with large cap

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Speaker 7: tech with some of these smaller companies. I often keep

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Speaker 7: an eye on the Golden Sacks unprofitable basket. That's a

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Speaker 7: returned about forty eight percent year to date, so quickly

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Speaker 7: outstripping the Magnificent seven, quickly outstripping the Nasdaq one hundred.

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Speaker 7: Is that a short squeezer? Is that people taking on risk?

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Speaker 7: It's really been a topic of conversation depending on who

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Speaker 7: you talk to, whether that's in the private.

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Speaker 4: Or the public markets, topic of conversation on the earnings calls.

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Speaker 3: So we've just had a CFO City group being asked

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Speaker 3: about froth evaluations in AI. This is focused chutional investors

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Speaker 3: as well as retail investors.

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Speaker 7: And it's undeniable and the question is are you going

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Speaker 7: to hit on one of those ten investments. I look

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Speaker 7: at a company like Oaklow in the nuclear space, up

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Speaker 7: four hundred and seventy percent this year.

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Speaker 6: Quantum stocks are up hundreds of percents.

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Speaker 7: Is that a bet on these being kind of the

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Speaker 7: next wave of companies or is this investor saying you

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Speaker 7: know what if I hit one out of the twelve

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Speaker 7: companies and Quantum ends up being kind of the next paradigm. Well,

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Speaker 7: at least I got in on Invidia, the next in Vidia,

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Speaker 7: if you will.

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Speaker 2: On the ground floor, which is the biggest story today,

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Speaker 2: the CFO of a bank saying something quite measured, or

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Speaker 2: a Bank of America survey of all the fund managers

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Speaker 2: that they track CFO.

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Speaker 7: I think when you see management teams start to kind

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Speaker 7: of grapple publicly with the idea of froth and publicly

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Speaker 7: discussing whether they're going outright say are we in an

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Speaker 7: AI bubble or not? Whether you want to ascribe a

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Speaker 7: lot of value to what we've seen and heard from

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Speaker 7: the likes of Sam Altman talking about kind of it

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Speaker 7: is an AI bubble or Jeff Bezos. Every leader at

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Speaker 7: these biggest companies in the world, whether it's tech giants

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Speaker 7: or whether it's the c suite of banks, are grappling

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Speaker 7: with this debate.

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Speaker 6: And it's going to be.

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Speaker 7: Something that is a theme in this earning season, whether

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Speaker 7: you want to talk about tariffs, but it's going to

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Speaker 7: inevitably come back to AI bubble valuations and expectations because

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Speaker 7: there is so much debate around the cycling of money

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Speaker 7: and what this actually will mean with building out data centers,

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Speaker 7: buying these chips, open AI, partnering with seemingly everyone. What

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Speaker 7: that does mean when we look back a year from now,

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Speaker 7: two years from now, was this kind of the buildout

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Speaker 7: of the next generation in terms of AI, or was

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Speaker 7: this something that we all kind of should have seen

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Speaker 7: the signs that there was a potential.

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Speaker 2: Top Bloomberg's Bailey lip Schultz with big Bailey lip Schultz

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Speaker 2: fans here on Bloomberg Tech try saying that in the

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Speaker 2: morning without a coffee, thank you very much. So coming

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Speaker 2: up AMD and now this is a new agreement with

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Speaker 2: Oracle supplying even more AI chips.

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Speaker 6: We have the details on that. Next, this is Bloomberg Tech.

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Speaker 2: AMD says Oracle is set to deploy fifty thousand of

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Speaker 2: their four fifty chips into data center computers starting next year.

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Speaker 2: It's the latest commitment in the AI infrastructure frenzy. Here

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Speaker 2: with the details BLOOMBOGSI and King who leads our coverage

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Speaker 2: of semiconductors. This is an important deal for AMD. It's

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Speaker 2: one of the only stocks on the socks that's in

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Speaker 2: the green right now, What do we need to know

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Speaker 2: about it the specificity of where these chips are going.

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Speaker 8: So the first thing to note is that these chips

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Speaker 8: don't actually exist. These are new products promised for next year.

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Speaker 8: So what this is is another affirmation that AMD has

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Speaker 8: a role in the future of this massive build out,

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Speaker 8: that it is perhaps more than just an alternative to

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Speaker 8: in video, that people are actually looking at it's technology

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Speaker 8: and saying, hey, we'll have some of that. We like that,

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Speaker 8: We're going to commit at least part of our data

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Speaker 8: center build to that.

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Speaker 3: And what's interesting is, and it comes hot on the

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Speaker 3: heels of course of open AMD teaming up Oracles down

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Speaker 3: significantly today they've got AI world upon us. But how

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Speaker 3: much are we seeing AMD reap the rewards? How much

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Speaker 3: will some of these be built out in data centers

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Speaker 3: and the margins be impacted for Oracle here?

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean we've obviously saw the massive open AI

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Speaker 8: announcement with am D another affirmation, a separate affirmation from this,

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Speaker 8: that hey, they've got a role. Oracle has been a

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Speaker 8: customer of AMD for a while. This gives Oracle more options. Obviously,

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Speaker 8: everybody else, including Oracle, is paying most of their money

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Speaker 8: to in video right now. The margins are massive, the

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Speaker 8: prices are massive, So this creates an alternative.

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Speaker 2: Let's go back to what you said about these chips

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Speaker 2: don't yet exist. AMD, much like in Vidia, has future

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Speaker 2: generations of their GPU that they've designed and announced, but

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Speaker 2: they're not yet in production. How do we best understand

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Speaker 2: where AMD stands in this market for this lead edge

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Speaker 2: accelerator versus it in VideA in the next year or so.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, I think the best way to look

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Speaker 8: at it is up until the Open AI announcement, it

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Speaker 8: seemed like everybody was kind of AMD curious that they

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Speaker 8: were getting, you know, orders which were substantial and bringing

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Speaker 8: in a good amount of money for the company, but

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Speaker 8: compared to what was on offer, compared to what was

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Speaker 8: happening at in video, really nothing. I mean, they were

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Speaker 8: the best of follow a group that's following in VideA.

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Speaker 8: What we're seeing now is at least the beginnings of

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Speaker 8: these kind of volume orders and these future commitments, which

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Speaker 8: would imply that they are a serious technology provider.

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Speaker 3: In king with always the latest, thank you so much,

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Speaker 3: seeking with chips shares a Samsung actually sliding over an

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Speaker 3: Asia training hours despite the company reporting its biggest quarterly

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Speaker 3: profit or expectations of in more than three years. Here

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Speaker 3: to discuss it megs Peter Elstrom, and it's.

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Speaker 4: Not about memory and demand for it. But why is

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Speaker 4: the stock under pressure?

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Speaker 9: Well, Samsung stock has really been on a run this year.

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Speaker 9: It's up about seventy five It was up about seventy

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Speaker 9: five percent before these earnings came out, So investors are

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Speaker 9: taking a bit of profit here on the actual news,

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Speaker 9: Samsung's numbers were pretty good.

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Speaker 5: This is just.

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Speaker 9: Preliminary earnings for them. They just put out revenue numbers

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Speaker 9: and then operating profit. Just two numbers so far, and

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Speaker 9: their operating profit was the biggest in at least three years.

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Speaker 9: It was about eight point five billion dollars. So they

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Speaker 9: are making more money. They're gaining some traction on the

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Speaker 9: HBM side. These are the memory chips that are paired

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Speaker 9: with the accelerators. But you were talking earlier with Bailey

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Speaker 9: about some of these tech stocks getting ahead of themselves.

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Speaker 9: Samsung is one of those examples, and it'll run up

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Speaker 9: quite a bit now. The investors are taking a bit

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Speaker 9: of profits, but the numbers look pretty strong. We're going

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Speaker 9: to get final earnings from them later on in the month,

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Speaker 9: we'll get more detail about exactly how much of this

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Speaker 9: is coming from memory chips, the HBM chips in particular,

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Speaker 9: how much from smartphones and other kinds of components. Samsung

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Speaker 9: in this AI memory chip race has been behind sk Heinix,

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Speaker 9: it's local competitor. Eske Henix has been very good at

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Speaker 9: working with Nvidia in particular, But now Samsung appears to

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Speaker 9: be making some progress. We get more detail on that later,

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Speaker 9: but it does look like they're making some progress.

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Speaker 2: Pete, you're the editor that leads our coverage of Asian technology,

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Speaker 2: right how do we cover Samsung? That's a company that

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Speaker 2: has all of these different arms and in the calendar,

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Speaker 2: is Samsung the most important Asian technology company right now?

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Speaker 9: Well, we've got a big week for tech companies in Asia,

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Speaker 9: and particularly chip companies in Asia. TSMC comes later on

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Speaker 9: in the week. TSMC, of course makes chips for everybody,

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Speaker 9: but particularly they're the ones who actually manufacture those chips

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Speaker 9: for Invidio when they go ahead and sell them to

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Speaker 9: Open AI and the rest of their customers. So that's

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Speaker 9: going to be a biggie. In between, we have ASML

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Speaker 9: in Europe, which is another very important company in the

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Speaker 9: chip ecosystem because they make the highest end chip equipment

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Speaker 9: for manufacturing these high D chips. So both of those

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Speaker 9: are to be important indicators. Samsung is very much in there. Recently,

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Speaker 9: they've had some struggles as they fell behind sk Heinis

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Speaker 9: in the memory chip business. In particular, it looked like

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Speaker 9: Heiinis was going to run away with this market. Now,

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Speaker 9: Samsung course big company within South Korea, the biggest company historically.

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Speaker 9: They've made a lot of progress in terms of catching up,

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Speaker 9: so they're important, and together Samsung and Skhinnicks give you

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Speaker 9: an indication of how the AI market is doing. So

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Speaker 9: both of those companies are partnering with open Ai too.

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Speaker 9: As you mentioned earlier, open Ai seems to be partnering

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Speaker 9: with everybody. They both have contracts to be able to

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Speaker 9: supply those memory chips as open Ai embarks on this

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Speaker 9: enormous construction project to build more data centers across the

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Speaker 9: US and beyond the US.

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Speaker 3: Samsung under pressure and you articulate how far the stock

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Speaker 3: has run up recently, But is there any implication from

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Speaker 3: the dialing up of geopolitical anxieties and the moment we

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Speaker 3: know that China South Korea are getting embroiled from a

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Speaker 3: shipping perspective, Peter, is there anything weighing more broadly or

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Speaker 3: more is that Samsung will be engulfed and yet further

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Speaker 3: tension between South career China and.

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Speaker 9: More broadly, there are certainly tensions. I think everybody is

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Speaker 9: watching the negotiations between the US and China. We of

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Speaker 9: course had that flare up over the weekend where China

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Speaker 9: threatened to use their control over the rare earth elements

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Speaker 9: in the trade negotiations. President Trump responded by saying, perhaps

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Speaker 9: tariffs would go to one hundred percent. I think that

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Speaker 9: concerns everybody when it comes to South Korea, in particular

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Speaker 9: in Samsung. Samsung is one of the companies that is

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Speaker 9: building facilities within the US. They're one of the Chips

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Speaker 9: Act beneficiaries, so they're doing construction in the US. They

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Speaker 9: plan on adding a lot of capacity here, so as

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Speaker 9: the Trump administration pushes for more domestic manufacturing, they seem

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Speaker 9: to be one of the beneficiaries at this point.

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Speaker 6: At least.

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Speaker 9: They of course make these memory chips, which is really

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Speaker 9: where they make all of their money. The mobile phone

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Speaker 9: business may be a little bit higher profile, but the

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Speaker 9: chips business is really where they make the profit. As

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Speaker 9: they push ahead with that and they work more with

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Speaker 9: TSMC in Nvidia on those memory chips, that should help

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Speaker 9: their profits. But in terms of these trade wars, it's

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Speaker 9: very important that they continue to build out in the

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Speaker 9: US and build up those fabs that they have in

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Speaker 9: the US.

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Peter Elstrom on all Things Samsung, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Now coming up, we're going to speak with Tonal CEO

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Speaker 2: Darren McDonald about the company's retail expassion expansion and it's

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Speaker 2: pushed to infuse AI into all of its products.

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Speaker 6: That's next. This is Bloomberg Tech.

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Speaker 2: Tonal Systems, the maker of at home fitness equipment, says

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Speaker 2: it's seen a return to revenue growth fueled by sales

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Speaker 2: of its tech infused Tonal two. The company has experienced

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Speaker 2: a turbulent few years after pandemic era lockdown's lifted and

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Speaker 2: people went back to in person gyms and fitness classes.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk more about the company's tund around efforts with

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Speaker 2: Tonal CEO Darren McDonald. So there is a strategy now right,

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Speaker 2: a different environment to say twenty through twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: and I'm trying to make sense of what links it all.

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Speaker 6: You seem to want to look at the.

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Speaker 2: High street a little bit and retail. What is your

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Speaker 2: big strategy.

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Speaker 10: Well, yeah, just in the past year, we've actually rolled

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Speaker 10: out from nineteen locations to over one hundred locations for

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Speaker 10: a distribution, so we now we have more places people

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Speaker 10: to see and touch and feel a Tonal product, which

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Speaker 10: is incredible because we have seventy five percent NPS and

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Speaker 10: some of the lowest journ in the category. So giving

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Speaker 10: people an opportunity to actually experience this system means that

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Speaker 10: people end up buying, and so just we want to

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Speaker 10: really focus on that.

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Speaker 2: Tonal systems are still higher end and if we learned

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Speaker 2: anything from a couple of weeks ago when Peloton had

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Speaker 2: its latest change in strategy, people are still very sensitive

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Speaker 2: to pricing.

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Speaker 6: They want more for less. What's your strategy for pricing?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, you know, we feel like we've got the world's

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Speaker 10: leading strength training system. It's a personal trainer on your wall.

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Speaker 10: It's a full gym. You don't have to think about

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Speaker 10: it in the sense that we personalize all the weights

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Speaker 10: for you. So there isn't anything out there in the

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Speaker 10: market like what we do. So the fact that we

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Speaker 10: can personalize the workout. We can adjust weights in real time.

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Speaker 10: We'll move weights up by one pound or decrease it

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Speaker 10: by one pound if you're not doing well, and you

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Speaker 10: don't have to think about it at all. And from

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Speaker 10: our perspective, because of our platform, the way it's built,

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Speaker 10: which sits on top of AI, it's not just entertaining you.

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Speaker 10: It's really a strength training system that works with you, and.

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Speaker 3: You are offering more to those who already have one

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Speaker 3: with reformer pilates options being built in Darren and unfolded.

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Speaker 3: But I'm interested in the artificial intelligence part of it

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Speaker 3: that has been being baked into everyday workouts on the Tonal.

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Speaker 4: How are you embracing it?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, as you said, Carolyn, we're super excited today

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Speaker 10: to announce the fact that we're working with christ McGee

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Speaker 10: and we're announcing our PLATES system. You know what's really

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Speaker 10: great about it is that what we see on our

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Speaker 10: platform is that almost two thirds of our members are

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Speaker 10: interested in pilates, but only seventeen percent of them are

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Speaker 10: actually doing it. And the reason for that is pretty clear.

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Speaker 10: You know, we've got people who have difficulty getting into classes,

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Speaker 10: they're inaccessible. You have to drive to them. The classes

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Speaker 10: are often difficult to find, and so we rolled that

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Speaker 10: out on our Tonal system. We have force curves that

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Speaker 10: are very similar to what a reformer looks like, so

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Speaker 10: as you move further away from from the machine, it

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Speaker 10: actually increases in resistance as well. It's really unlike anything

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Speaker 10: that's ever been offered out there. So now a greater

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Speaker 10: part of our community is able to actually interact with

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Speaker 10: something like pilates. And so you add that to strength,

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Speaker 10: you add that to yoga, you add that to the

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Speaker 10: cardio work that we do. And so to answer your

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Speaker 10: question around the AI component of it, we think we

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Speaker 10: have the world's largest strength database. So we have nearly

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Speaker 10: three hundred thousand members lifting nearly three hundred billion pounds.

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Speaker 10: It's a tremendous data set. So as we learn about

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Speaker 10: you and who you are, we can look at our

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Speaker 10: cables and say, you know, somebody is lifting a certain

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Speaker 10: amount of weight, a certain amount of reps, forced velosophy,

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Speaker 10: range of motion, all of those things which helps us

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Speaker 10: to define what outcomes could look like for somebody. So

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Speaker 10: people get stronger on Tonal than any other system.

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Speaker 4: It is a premium offering.

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Speaker 3: Would you ever think about having cheaper offerings or just

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Speaker 3: the application as we've seen with Palatin for example.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, we don't have anything to announce today, but we're

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Speaker 10: certainly looking at alternative opportunities for our hardware. I mean,

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Speaker 10: we could move upstream, we could move downstream, but again

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Speaker 10: I would just refer back to the fact that nobody

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Speaker 10: has anything quite like what we have.

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Speaker 2: Just very quick before we let you go. You know

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Speaker 2: you've raised money in the past. Would you raise money

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Speaker 2: just to keep growth going or what would the rationale be?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 10: I mean, we're always looking at fuel growth, so you know,

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Speaker 10: in terms of developing new hardware, in terms of acquiring

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Speaker 10: new customers, expanding any new modalities. As we're announcing today,

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Speaker 10: we think there's an opportunity for us to keep.

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Speaker 4: That going, keep that going. We really appreciate it.

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Speaker 3: Darren McDonald, CEO of Tonal, on the latest announcement when

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Speaker 3: it comes to reformer plates and the growth story. But

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Speaker 3: coming up and we've got so much more to discuss

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Speaker 3: when it comes to Salesforce. As Dreamforce Conference kicks off today,

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Speaker 3: we're going to speak of may have be a writer.

438
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 4: Sanezuski of eleven Labs.

439
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 3: This is all about the integration of AI and the

440
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,320
Speaker 3: future of enterprise software. Basically today, the key question is

441
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 3: in what are we in an AI bubble? How much

442
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: therefore are we seeing a return on AI investment in

443
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:15,120
Speaker 3: the enterprise.

444
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 4: Look at what the impact though is of China or

445
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 4: the US as well.

446
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 2: Funny day in the market, So we're down about a

447
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 2: percentage point on the Nazak one hundred. I'm still recovering

448
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 2: from Friday where the President broke that news at the

449
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: top of our show and then markets went into free fall.

450
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,159
Speaker 2: But the blanket theme is the same anxiety about trade

451
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,520
Speaker 2: and unknowns about the relationship between the United States and China,

452
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: particularly in the context of technology. The outlier AMD doing

453
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 2: deals over the place. This is Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back

454
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:58,239
Speaker 2: to Bloomberg Tech. I'm looking at the markets and here

455
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 2: are some technology stories we haven't got to.

456
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 6: Yeah. The first is Walmart are almost three percent. What

457
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 6: do you think it is.

458
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:07,720
Speaker 2: It's a relationship with open AI, an API integration into

459
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 2: chat gpt sending the stock high. Just like we saw

460
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 2: with the number of names that Open AI dev day.

461
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: Walmart is the latest to do a deal in the

462
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 2: e commerce context to integration in chat GPT also the

463
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 2: chip sector, so we talked about AMD AMD's PAED some

464
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: of its gain relating to the Oracle deal, which Inking

465
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 2: explained to us is separate from that open AI arrangement.

466
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 2: On the downside, is in video down three point six percent.

467
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 2: It fell in recent days because of the tensions with China.

468
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: I don't really see a specific piece of news or

469
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 2: a catalyst that's driving this down lower. There was, of

470
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 2: course the broad coom an open AIA six news of yesterday.

471
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 2: They're all names we track because they're moving the markets.

472
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 2: Carac Can, let's.

473
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,960
Speaker 3: Talk about the moves in the market just of late,

474
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 3: in the valuations that they're at ed because global fund

475
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,120
Speaker 3: managers they are sounding the alarm bells on AI stocks

476
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,680
Speaker 3: with a record share more than off, saying they're in

477
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 3: a bubble. It's all according to the survey by Bank

478
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 3: of America. Meanwhile, City Group CFO Mark Mason also out

479
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,679
Speaker 3: with a warning when questioned by analyst, saying that there

480
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,720
Speaker 3: is signs of frothiness in AI valuations, a sketch to

481
00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:13,760
Speaker 3: Bloomberg E Secritaris report around Vastelica.

482
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 4: I mean the noise is becoming deafening.

483
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 11: Absolutely, we have heard almost daily warnings from people about

484
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,840
Speaker 11: overevaluation in AI stock, some kind of bubble brewing concerns

485
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 11: about sort of the circular nature of some of these

486
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 11: financing deals, a lack of detail that people want. Yeah,

487
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 11: certainly there is a growing, growing concern, although I also

488
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 11: would say there continues to be a lot of optimism

489
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,200
Speaker 11: about the long term path of AI, the long term

490
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 11: productivity enhancements it is expected to deliver. There's still a

491
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 11: lot of optimism that these companies will eventually see some

492
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 11: pretty amazing returns from all the investments they're making.

493
00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,239
Speaker 6: So certainly a lot of balls, but also a lot

494
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 6: of bears.

495
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 2: Right, there's a lot of headlines around Salesforce on the

496
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 2: terminal today, many positive, but the stock's down almost two percent.

497
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,520
Speaker 2: One I see that you filled with the team is

498
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: that Salesforce has been cut at Northland.

499
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 6: What's that analyst saying.

500
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 11: I believe he was discussing a lack of real growth

501
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 11: acceleration from his agent force AI product. He's not seeing

502
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 11: it showing up and CRPO that's current remaining performance obligations.

503
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 11: He's not seeing it show up an average revenue per user. Now,

504
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 11: Salesforce does have its agent Force event today. I haven't

505
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 11: been able to monitor it, so we are hoping to

506
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 11: see some new details maybe about adoption. If they give

507
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,200
Speaker 11: any kind of insight into how much of revenue growth

508
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,640
Speaker 11: they're seeing from this overall adoption rates, I mean, that's

509
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 11: all going to be very critical for the stock or

510
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,320
Speaker 11: this is one of those software companies that has really

511
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 11: been struggling this year. Even amid all the AI optimism,

512
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 11: there are a lot of software companies that have really

513
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 11: been sort of struggling against a perception that maybe AI

514
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 11: native companies, notably Open AI, are these companies going to

515
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 11: really represent some kind of competition to them that's very

516
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 11: difficult to shake. So people looking to this event today

517
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 11: really has an opportunity to help counter that narrative.

518
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 6: With most Ryan for Stelica, thank you very much.

519
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: Now, as Wall Street debates whether AI stocks are heading

520
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 2: into bubble territory, Salesforce is doubling down on the technology.

521
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 2: Dreamforce twenty twenty five kicks off today, bringing together celebrities

522
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 2: and tech leaders to explore the future of AI in

523
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 2: the world of enterprise. Among the featured speakers Eleven Lab

524
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: CEO Matti Stanzewski and Writer CEO Mayhbib who will appear

525
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 2: together on a panel titled Rewriting the Enterprise Playbook with AI,

526
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 2: Please to say they both joined us now here in

527
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 2: San Francisco.

528
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 6: May I start with you. You heard what Ryan just said.

529
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 2: I know writer to be an LLM focus company AGENTICAI

530
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: focus company for the enterprise. Either you beat Salesforce at

531
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 2: that or you work with them at that.

532
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 6: Which is it?

533
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 12: Yeah, what we do is help companies rewire operations to

534
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 12: be AI native, and so partnerships with companies like Salesforce

535
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 12: are really important part of that. So it's definitely the

536
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 12: partnership angle. But there is something to be said around

537
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 12: doing things AI native and being able to start with

538
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 12: a blank sheet of paper versus you know, layering on

539
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 12: AGENTIC into a system of record that has existed for

540
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 12: a while.

541
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, you've kind of wanted to build it from the

542
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 4: ground up.

543
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 5: May.

544
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,360
Speaker 4: But I turn therefore to Matty. And when you're thinking.

545
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: About the audio applications of artificial intelligence, we've had you

546
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 3: on the show to think about how now music can

547
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 3: be created by just writing in a few key prompts.

548
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 3: How are companies adopting eleven labs appropriately with a return

549
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 3: on that investment.

550
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 4: Is it with a salesforce or is it from the

551
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 4: ground up.

552
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 13: Carline. Thanks for having me here. We've seen an incredible

553
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 13: shift over last year where the combination of voice and

554
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 13: conversational agents can elevate a customer experience for customers that

555
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 13: I was Fortune five hundred all the way to to

556
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,880
Speaker 13: some of them highest scaling startups. We've seen boff. We've

557
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 13: seen companies built using some of the best and read

558
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 13: technologies including voice, like you said, all relying on the

559
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 13: entirety of the platform. We are thrilled to be here

560
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 13: at Dreamforce and as part of the work we do

561
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 13: be part of the voice for Agent force empowering that

562
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 13: work across their platform. So we've seen both and in

563
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 13: across the enterprise segment quick adoption in that sector.

564
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: May we have.

565
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 3: Loved how outspoken and clear you've been and pushing back home.

566
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 3: Perhaps these narratives of ninety five percent of all AI

567
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 3: pilots aren't working when we think about the a MIT

568
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 3: report that really rocked the market.

569
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 4: But it's about nuance in this conversation.

570
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 3: May so bring us that nuance of when is it

571
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 3: working when they're adopting writer either from the ground up

572
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 3: or indeed within salesforce offerings.

573
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 12: Yeah, AI is not another software upgrade. You can't outsource

574
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 12: it to the CIO and expect results. You know, a

575
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 12: lot of what we do is go to executives and

576
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 12: CEOs and say, look, this is about you. Sometimes you

577
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 12: kind of want to shake them, like this has got

578
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:01,400
Speaker 12: to be a top down, very heavy mandate to rewire

579
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 12: processes end to end. If you leave it up to people,

580
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 12: a lot of what they're going to be doing is

581
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 12: personal productivity stuff with AI versus the high leverage things

582
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,520
Speaker 12: that executives certainly want. And as you've seen in terms

583
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 12: of what the market wants and this continued investment in AI,

584
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 12: what people are expecting from this enterprise.

585
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: Investment, Matty, what you and may have in common as

586
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 2: your private companies. You're free from the scrutiny that public

587
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: companies are. But in the last segment we talked about

588
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 2: how some of the analysts that cover salesforce are skeptical about.

589
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 6: Agent force. In particular.

590
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 2: You've just said to us, both of you, we actually

591
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 2: do see adoption in the enterprise. So what does that

592
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: tell you if the data for their products specifically isn't

593
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,200
Speaker 2: as strong.

594
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 13: Look, our focus is predominantly on working across our work

595
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 13: at eleven laps, and we've seen use cases across e

596
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 13: commerce elevate where you suddenly can and not only have

597
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 13: customer supporting and customer experience, where users going into the product,

598
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 13: going into the site will be able to interactive agents

599
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 13: to help you shop through the product all the way

600
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,040
Speaker 13: from the start. It's a good company and Mobilaria one

601
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 13: of the biggest in Italy working on use cases like this,

602
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 13: and we've seen this scale across across wider degree of

603
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 13: segments and financial services and technology and healthcare. What I

604
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 13: think is true and key as you think about salesforce

605
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 13: their distribution across clients, of course stretches all types of

606
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 13: industries and including regulated industries, so it will take a

607
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 13: slightly longer time to bring a little bit of technology

608
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 13: into those industries where where additional deployment additional integrations to

609
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 13: existing stock are slightly more complex to some of the

610
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 13: companies in the space.

611
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: May when you're both on stage with each other later today,

612
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 2: what's kind of the one key thing you want to

613
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 2: get across about what is happening among your enterprise customers

614
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: at the moment, fighting with each day or what you're

615
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 2: most focused on.

616
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, this is we're hosts of Salesforce, right, they are

617
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 12: wonderful partners, and I think a big part of what

618
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 12: we want to impart to that audience is how do

619
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 12: you make the most out of your data investment with

620
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 12: agentic AI, and I think both of us have got

621
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 12: companies where enterprises are getting real ROI right from our

622
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 12: products and really helping bring that to the data they've

623
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 12: got in the salesforce ecosystems is going to be one

624
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 12: of the things we talk about.

625
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:32,920
Speaker 3: What's so interesting, really, Mattie, has been the ongoing anxiety

626
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 3: among that enterprise workforce about whether they're being augmented or

627
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 3: whether indeed they're being replaced. How have you continued to

628
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 3: try and tell that story, particularly when you're in the

629
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: world of music, of IP of real individuality and creativity.

630
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 13: For us, it's extremely important to work with the industry together.

631
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 13: So our music is the first fully licensed AI music

632
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 13: model at incredible quality working with our research theme, and

633
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 13: that's the approach we've taken across voice, across music, across

634
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 13: as we build conversational agents. But like you say, AI

635
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 13: is bringing change in the way that we've seen this

636
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 13: across enterprise, across the companies we work with, is people

637
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 13: using AI will be the people that will unfortunately, where

638
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 13: there's people not using AI, so that adoption both and

639
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 13: the enterprise setting and across the wider global setting. It's

640
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 13: all about being the user, trying it out and bringing.

641
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,200
Speaker 4: That to your work and may when you come on.

642
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 3: We've always been very keen to ask you about your

643
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 3: growth trajectory, but also the haves and the have nots

644
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 3: in the space. How much you still having companies, smaller

645
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 3: companies call you up saying, hey, we'd like to team

646
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:42,040
Speaker 3: with you, we'd like to offer you, we'd like to

647
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 3: have some sort of buy out. Are you seeing that

648
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: coming from vcs just being more discerning, putting money for

649
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: the winners, but taking away from those that aren't hitting scale.

650
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 12: The bar for sharp differentiation has never been harder. I

651
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 12: think with the hyperscalers just flooding the zone, it has

652
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 12: been so such a challenge to make sure the enterprise

653
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 12: understands what's real, what's what, and I think that's just

654
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 12: getting harder for smaller startups to enter the enterprise as

655
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 12: a result. You know, we were lucky in that we

656
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 12: started building LLLMS for the enterprise five years ago, and

657
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 12: so a lot of our longstanding relationships, you know, have

658
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 12: been a result of why we land new customers in

659
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 12: these spaces. And I think that is just getting harder

660
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 12: because of the hyperscaler investment. But there's just so many categories.

661
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 12: The enterprise needs so much help, and people are not

662
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 12: focused on it the way that startups can. So still

663
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 12: a ton of opportunity, but yeah, absolutely getting harder, and.

664
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 4: We love having both of you on to talk about

665
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 4: that opportunity.

666
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,640
Speaker 3: We're excited to hear from you at SOLS full Streamforce

667
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 3: as well. A little bit later Mayhabe as well, Mattie Stetazuski.

668
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 4: We appreciate you.

669
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 1: Of course.

670
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 4: Of Writer and eleven Labs coming up.

671
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 3: Tara Hopkins, Global Director of Policy of Instagram joins us

672
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: to talk about the company's new PG thirteen content restrictions

673
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: for team users.

674
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 4: That's next. This is a really big tech.

675
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 3: Instagram will prevent teens from seeing content deemed inappropriate for

676
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 3: PG thirteen audiences. Is a new move following Instagram's launch

677
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,200
Speaker 3: of teen accounts last.

678
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 4: Fall, and that already offers stricter settings.

679
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 3: And comes as its parent company meta and indeed the

680
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 3: wider social media industry really battle the narrative that they

681
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: expose young people to dangerous content.

682
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 4: So let's get the details.

683
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 3: Instagram's global director of Policy, Tyo Hopkins, and pleased to

684
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: say us here, and I think it's worth in a

685
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 3: nutshell explaining what TIN accounts now provide. You've added on

686
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 3: new updates today, how are we restricting content so.

687
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,440
Speaker 14: Cale and as you said, just to take a step back,

688
00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 14: we launched tin Accounts in the US and now globally.

689
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 14: Last year. Tin Accounts was to address that three things

690
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 14: that parents were most concerned about about their young people

691
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 14: using Instagram was about unwanted contact, it was about the

692
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 14: time they're spending on our app, and it was about

693
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:07,560
Speaker 14: inappropriate content and minimizing the amount of inappropriate content a

694
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 14: teen would see on Instagram. What the update is today

695
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 14: is specifically about that inappropriate content piece of this, because

696
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,080
Speaker 14: we're continually learning from parents and what they told us

697
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 14: was they were a little bit confused about the different

698
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 14: settings and the different controls. They were a little bit

699
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 14: confused about when we talk about what is age appropriate

700
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 14: or how we age gate and that kind of tech

701
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 14: speak that a lot of parents just don't really understand.

702
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 14: So what we've done is we've revammed teen accounts to

703
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 14: be guided by PG thirteen movie ratings, really trying to

704
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 14: speak the language of parents who are much more familiar

705
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,280
Speaker 14: with the movie rating movie rating standards. And as of today,

706
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 14: it's going to be rolling out to all teenagers under

707
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 14: the age of eighteen who are defaulted into this, so

708
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 14: they can't opt in or opt out. We're going to

709
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 14: be moving them into a teen account experience over the

710
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 14: course in the next few months.

711
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: And when you're deciding whether content or a content creator

712
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 3: is generally PG thirteen or not using artificient telligence for that,

713
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 3: how we.

714
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 14: Do we use our official intelligence. So the first thing

715
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 14: we did was we reviewed our policies, all the guidelines

716
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 14: we had around what is inappropriate content for a team,

717
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 14: so what's appropriate for a team? So we did that

718
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 14: review on Instagram. And then what we've done is we've

719
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 14: built the classifiers, our technology, the AI that we use,

720
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 14: and we've retrained it on some of these new roles

721
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 14: and rules and tweets and adaptations we've made to the

722
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 14: policies that goes out across the system. And then we

723
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 14: find content that we don't believe to be in that

724
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,399
Speaker 14: PG thirteen movie rating kind of space. We will either

725
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 14: hide it from teams or we will.

726
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 4: Remove it entirely.

727
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: Tara, there's still questions about from how the technology and

728
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 2: from a policy perspective, you define what is or what

729
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,160
Speaker 2: is not PG thirteen. So could you answer that more

730
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: specifically on a post by post basis, how is a

731
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 2: decision made this is or this is not PG thirteen.

732
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 14: Yeah, So the first thing is we don't rate if

733
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 14: you're on Instagram and how this is going to look

734
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 14: and feel if you're a teenager on Instagram. Now, first

735
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 14: of all, we're going to be sending a notification at

736
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 14: the top of your feed for teenagers to let them

737
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 14: know what we're doing here, to let them know that

738
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 14: we're going to be aligning and guided by PG thirteen ratings.

739
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,360
Speaker 14: What it will look and feel like if you're a

740
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 14: parent is hopefully that they will understand. Again, we're going

741
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 14: to be sending notifications to parents again, really trying to

742
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,399
Speaker 14: speak the language of parents. What we've done is we've

743
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 14: made some changes to the policies so that if you're

744
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 14: thinking about a PG thirteen movie that's the kind of

745
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 14: experience your team's are going to have. So what a

746
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 14: good example of that would be around cursing? So profanity.

747
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 14: We've always had rules around profanity on Instagram and there's

748
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 14: certain things you can and can't say. But on a

749
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,920
Speaker 14: PG thirteen movie, they have very very specific standards around this.

750
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,320
Speaker 14: You can use one or two quite strong curse words

751
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 14: and then other you knows less, more minor cursewords.

752
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 4: So what we did is we looked at this.

753
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 14: We're not apples for apples, of course, you know, we're

754
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 14: a social media company as opposed to making movies, but

755
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 14: we thought what would be equivalent on Instagram. The equivalent

756
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 14: on Instagram is we're not going to be recommending content

757
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 14: to teens that has severe what we would describe as

758
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 14: severe cursewords. So we train the AI to find those

759
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,640
Speaker 14: types of cursewords and we will remove them so that

760
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 14: we're not going to be recommending that kind of content

761
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 14: to teens.

762
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 2: Tara, what other protections are you thinking about doing additionally

763
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: going forward?

764
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 14: So we're also announcing today two further things. One is

765
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 14: that we're going to be giving parents more control if

766
00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 14: they wish to. So again, these this update is for

767
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 14: all teens under the age of eighteen. When we know

768
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 14: you're under the age of eighteen, you're going to be

769
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,439
Speaker 14: moved by default into the PG thirteen or the plus

770
00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 14: thirteen setting on Instagram. That's the first thing, But if

771
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 14: a parent wants to go that step further, we're really

772
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 14: going to help parents to do that. So one of

773
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 14: the additional one of the other things they're doing announcing

774
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 14: today is that we will have limited even more limited

775
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:47,000
Speaker 14: content control. Parents can go in and they can have

776
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 14: a look at that, they can talk to their team,

777
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 14: have a conversation with them. Particularly if your teenager is

778
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 14: in the younger category, you might want to limit the

779
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 14: content even further.

780
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 3: Yes, briefly got tens of millions of teen accounts. How

781
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,839
Speaker 3: many are to opt out navigate those age rules? How

782
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 3: are you ensuring that they do remain within those age catchments?

783
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 14: So we now have hundreds of millions of teens in

784
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 14: the teen Account experience, which which has been which we

785
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,920
Speaker 14: launched last year, which is really good news. We've been

786
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 14: able to do that technically, which is a pretty big

787
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 14: challenge to be able to do that. We know that

788
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 14: ninety seven percent of teens that we've moved into the

789
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:23,879
Speaker 14: teen account experience, have not tried to change those more

790
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 14: protective settings when they're in the younger age Cash Green,

791
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 14: so teens below the age of sixteen cannot change the

792
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 14: settings we set in teen accounts without getting a parent's permission.

793
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 14: We're going a step further with these content setting changes,

794
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 14: which is it's for every teen under the age of eighteen,

795
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 14: but they can't change them unless they get a parent

796
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 14: to approve.

797
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 6: It as well.

798
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: Tara Hopkins, Global Director for Policy for Instagram, thank you

799
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,160
Speaker 2: very much for joining us here on Bloomberg ten. Okay,

800
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 2: coming up Europe races to prove Jensen one wrong about

801
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 2: their AI capability that Bloomberg de diive.

802
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 6: Next is Bloomberg Tech.

803
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 3: Time now before Quing Tech and first up SpaceX. Well,

804
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: It's pulled off another successful launch and return of its

805
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 3: Starship rocket, which deployed test satellite into orbit. The Lamsqu's

806
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 3: space company still has to demonstrate and master several novel

807
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: technologies to meet in its goal of a lunar landing

808
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 3: in the next two years. Has Apple Well, It's had

809
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 3: a release date for the launch of its super thin

810
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 3: iPhone Air in China.

811
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 4: The phone will be available in stores later this month

812
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 4: after a.

813
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:38,440
Speaker 3: Pause that allow local carriers to prepare for the device,

814
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 3: which is eSIM only.

815
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 4: The news coincided with a visit to the country by

816
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 4: Apple CEO Tim Cook, and Google is planning its biggest

817
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 4: investment in.

818
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 3: India yet, about fifteen billion dollars to build an AI

819
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 3: infrastructure hub in the South over the next five years.

820
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 3: India has been one of the biggest winners of the

821
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 3: global AI boom, and the project will help accelerate local

822
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 3: government efforts to expand the AI industry.

823
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 2: Videos Jensen Wong issued an AI warning to Europe and

824
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:06,760
Speaker 2: France over the summer.

825
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,279
Speaker 6: You are too slow. Now.

826
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 2: European leaders are working to prove him wrong, with many

827
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:17,000
Speaker 2: committing billions to homegrown AI startups and services. Bloomberg's European

828
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 2: tech reporter Mark Bergen has been writing about Europe's attens

829
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,959
Speaker 2: a catching up and joins us now Jensen Wong says,

830
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: you are too slow at sort of an EU wide

831
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 2: level or country by country level. What is it that

832
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 2: they're actually doing to prove him wrong or at least

833
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 2: catch up.

834
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 15: Yeah, that anecdote from our story was like the lead

835
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 15: of it was a dinner hosted by Emanuel mal Cron

836
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,760
Speaker 15: and in a way before his government collapsed that France

837
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 15: was seen as the vanguard here. They had that this

838
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 15: earlier this year they announced the largest data center project

839
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,840
Speaker 15: in the EU. They have Miestrol, which is the closest

840
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,640
Speaker 15: thing that Europe has to sort of an open AI arrival,

841
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 15: and a lot of money in public support from the government.

842
00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 15: The European Commission Union has put money behind chips, behind

843
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:06,240
Speaker 15: what they call these AI gigafactories, basically large data center projects.

844
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 15: If you compare the funding those to the US and China,

845
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 15: though obviously Europe is still lagging third place.

846
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: When we think about the key players of Europe, they

847
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: do have some standouts ASML. When you think chip equipment making,

848
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 3: you got SAP bringing it to the enterprise. But where

849
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 3: else are they trying to grow their own talent and

850
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 3: indeed risk pushing back though the US influx of money

851
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 3: that seemed to come with Jensen's last visit.

852
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 15: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things happening and

853
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 15: we can't try to captures in the debate there are

854
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 15: you know, Jensen has been kind of teased Europe for

855
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 15: moving too slowly. Clearly he wants them to be buying

856
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 15: more in Vidia chips, and there are others that argue

857
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 15: that maybe this sovereignty, this idea of independence from the

858
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 15: US and China means not relying on in Nvidia, not

859
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 15: relying on open Ai, not relying on Microsoft and the

860
00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 15: cloud providers. That's a lot more difficult. I think the

861
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 15: cloud is where we're starting to see some really interesting

862
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 15: neo clouds. Nebulus is a Dutch company here that's fun

863
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 15: out from Russia's Yendex that's had a really fascinating growth trajectory.

864
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 15: We've seen a lot of these neocloud companies come up

865
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 15: in Europe. Some of them are really positioning themselves as

866
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 15: alternatives to the US providers, and.

867
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: Scale being another key name we keep hearing about Mark

868
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 3: Bergen great story, and what you don't want to forget

869
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: is we're going to dive into all of these topics

870
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 3: so much more next week showing Bloomberg Tech summits Tale

871
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 3: and being hosted in London is on October the twenty first.

872
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 4: But meanwhile, that does it for this edition.

873
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 3: A Bloomberg Tech and a lot to digest in terms

874
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,000
Speaker 3: of geopolitics and in terms of valuations.

875
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's still a little bit of anxiety in technology markets.

876
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: It's largely focused to trade. Salesforce is down two percent

877
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 2: on the day that Dreamforce kicks off. How's that going

878
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,600
Speaker 2: to go down? You can recap that on the podcast.

879
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 2: You know where to find it. It's online on all

880
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,760
Speaker 2: those platforms. It's on the Bloomberg platforms. Big week ahead,

881
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Tech