1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: hear their stories, What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. In the nineteen seventies, 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: British born comedian Tony Hendra and his fellow editors at 6 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: the National Lampoon perfected the art of satire through comics, 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: illustrations and irreverent clips. They transformed a small magazine into 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 1: a powerhouse of hilarious, cutting edge social commentary. Before that, 9 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: Hendra had been part of a comedy team with Nick Cullett, 10 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: performing live across the US, but the election of Richard 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: Nixon was a turning point for Hendra and the work 12 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: he wanted to create. After helping shape The Lampoon, Hendra 13 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: took his fearless wit on the road, writing and ucing 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: TV shows, acting in movies, and producing albums, one of 15 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: which propelled John Belushi to fame, still writing today. He 16 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: reunited with the Lampoon last year to write a new 17 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: album titled Are There Any Triggers Here Tonight? For Tony Hendra, 18 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: the Trump administration has only made his work more relevant. 19 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 1: There are times, especially now, when there is an essentiality 20 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: of sata and it's important. I mean, even if you 21 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: don't get rid of the enemy, the enemy triumphs in 22 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: some curious way. It is a kind of civic obligation almost, 23 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: you know, to to be taking on power, especially when 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: it's already corrupted power in this case. Do you feel 25 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: during the course of your career that was a part 26 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: of it, the essentiality of satire? Well, yes, I obviously 27 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 1: it's self seeking to to say that, But but I 28 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: must say, when after the after the election, my my 29 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: little cost I have a cost of a radio show 30 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 1: I do called The Final Adition Radio and there's a 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: cast in New York and a cast in l a 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: And everyone obviously was very cast down, as we all were. 33 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,560 Speaker 1: They were asking questions like that, like, what's the point. 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: You know, we did all this satire all this year 35 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: and didn't have any effect on anything, um and um. 36 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:18,239 Speaker 1: I and I wrote them a sort of letter to 37 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: sort of cheer up letter. But the core of it 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:25,040 Speaker 1: was that actually, after I got over the shock of 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: the fact that he had actually been elected, I found 40 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: that I had a little buzz, a little buzz not 41 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: a excitement exactly, but a buzz is kind of connection, 42 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: which I was trying to remember when I last felt it, 43 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: and I remembered that it was actually the same at 44 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 1: the same time of day when I heard that Nixon 45 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: and ag Knew had been elected, and they were just 46 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: as much a horror show for for the left at 47 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: that point, and that just as much of a surprise, 48 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: in fact, even more so because Nexton had been completely 49 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: written off, and it was that actually at that point, 50 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: it was like in that that moment in sixty eight, 51 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: then I actually thought to myself, Okay, where were you 52 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: in sixty eight? At sixty eight, I was half of 53 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: a comedy team with Nick with Nick, yeah exactly, called Hendra, 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: and if if I was giving the interview, if he 55 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: was giving the interviews, Hendra, but Hendra, And it was 56 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,240 Speaker 1: slightly easier to say, but but we've been we've been 57 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 1: working since sixty four when we first came to these shores, 58 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:28,200 Speaker 1: and we were really at that point in quite successful 59 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: in a kind of official way. We we were doing 60 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: the really awful variety shows of the sixties, you know, 61 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: like Hollywood Palace and the Perry Como Show and and 62 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: all that kind of thing. Uh and so so so 63 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: in terms of comedy, then there were television programs that 64 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: really were craving acts to come on, and there was 65 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: work to be done for you and all it well, 66 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: there was work, but the strictures on the work who 67 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: were very frustrating because you know, because we were well, 68 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean certainly for me anyway, because I was I 69 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: was very politically sort of anxious and aware. But you 70 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: couldn't talk on television about any of the stuff that 71 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: was going on outside the studio doors. I mean, you 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: couldn't talk about the war, You couldn't have talked about 73 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: the various forms of liberation. You can talk about drugs, 74 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: You couldn't even talk about rock and roll unless you 75 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: were making fun of it. And so it was very frustrating. 76 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: But certainly we found that what we were doing, which 77 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 1: I would describe as bargain basement beyond the fringe at 78 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: the time, was not was not something that most American 79 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: audiences had much interest in, except in New York, where 80 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: they understood what it was. An indicious casting directors and 81 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: producers who took a chance, how did you get the jobs? 82 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: And we had a very powerful manager called Robert chart Off, 83 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: and we had yeah, that Bob Chatter, and we had 84 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: a good friend in Jackie Mason, who was his premium client. 85 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: In fact, Jackie Mason signed the application for my green card, oh, 86 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: which is kind of funny. Yeah. And anyway, so we've 87 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: gone through all the sort of storm and dragon fire 88 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: and ice of of being a comedian in sixties, like 89 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: doing the cats Skills, for example, which was unbelievable and 90 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: I could write an entire book about. But that we 91 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: had emerged from the other end as a kind of 92 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,679 Speaker 1: the English comedy group. You know, there was the Italian 93 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 1: comedy groups and comedy team, and there was an Irish 94 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 1: comedy team, and lots of Jewish comedy teams and and 95 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: and there was us. We got that little slot to ourselves, 96 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: but it didn't make any difference. We couldn't really do 97 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: anything very you know, very sort of cutting. I mean, 98 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: I think the most cutting joke we ever did was 99 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 1: was one about General the Gold being seriously injured this 100 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 1: morning during his morning walk. He was hit by a 101 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: motor boat. And that was like Meggie Sata Verry Como 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: drawing his finger across the throat behind your back foot 103 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: again exactly. So it was that kind of thing. And 104 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: above all that, the sort of pinnacle of this dreadful 105 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: television was was the Edge Solomon Show. I mean, it 106 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 1: was the thing everybody had to get on if they 107 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: wanted to succeed. Yeah, I think it was five or 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: six times. Ed had a very ethnic point of view 109 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: on comedy. I mean he had to have you had 110 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: to have one of everything. And so I mean George 111 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: Carlin was his favorite Irish comic coman in Pat Cooper 112 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: was his favorite Italian comedian, you know, and we were 113 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 1: we actually beat out Mr Pastry more of a you know, 114 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: more popular than Mr Pastry with but but it was 115 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: but it was a really difficult show to get last 116 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: on and it was well known. All comedians used to 117 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 1: bitterly complain about it being this kind of mausoleum. And 118 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 1: our own private name for the show was a Night 119 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: of the Living head. What do you think it was 120 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 1: that had them call you back again and again? We actually, 121 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: I guess got good ratings or something or but but 122 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, as I said, we were, we were 123 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: in good shape by virtue of being Ed's favorite British comedians. Um, 124 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: and then what changed well, what change was was was 125 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,919 Speaker 1: this moment actually when when I mean, at that point, 126 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: I was basically doing the kind of jokes I've been 127 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 1: telling you, jokes like about how bad British teetha you know. 128 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: But it was really in that moment I was describing earlier, 129 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: when when I realized that Nixon and Agne were actually 130 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 1: going to be running the country for the next four years. 131 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: Then I decided I've really got started getting serious about 132 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: being funny. And it was actually at that point where 133 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: I sort of began to break up the act because 134 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: I really wanted to do I really wanted to do 135 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: much tougher stuff and and and much more. I mean, 136 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: George had a wonderful George Carlin had a wonderful comment 137 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: about that time. He said, you know, when I did 138 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: shows like that, me and he had Sullivan Show, and 139 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: he did all the same shows, it was like being 140 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: a traitor to my generation. So you shared that view 141 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: with Carlin, Yes, very much. So. I didn't know enough 142 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,119 Speaker 1: yet about what what I wanted to make fun about. 143 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: But but I mean, for example, I had a piece 144 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: um which I was trying to sell to ramparts at 145 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: the time, remember ramparts, and and it was. It was 146 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: I thought a very funny piece about Gomer Pyle in 147 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: Vietnam and killed me some good storge, you know that 148 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. And and that was that, as I said, 149 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,120 Speaker 1: that was where I really began to think, well, I'd 150 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: much rather be doing this, but I have to find 151 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: a forum to do it. I have to find somewhere 152 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: somehow to do it either by myself. I wasn't going 153 00:08:13,040 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: to convince Nick because he really wasn't that political, and 154 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: part ways with him then, not immediately, but but gradually, 155 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 1: you know, I sort of we broke up actually in 156 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: the next year. Was he happy to continue going along 157 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: and just wanted to work. And yeah, but that was 158 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: the point, wh as I say, really in which I 159 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: began to look around for other other ways. And very 160 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,959 Speaker 1: soon the National Lampoon started. You don't start the National 161 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: No, no no no, But those who started they find you. 162 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: How there was a kind of grape vine for alternate comedy. 163 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: Did the grom Pile piece appear in ramparts? No a 164 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,839 Speaker 1: calling card for you in that kind of no. Unfortunately, 165 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: Walter Kin, it was a great editor called you from 166 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: lampo in no sense of humor. Nobody called me from Lampoon. 167 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: I was told that it was starting up about four 168 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: or five months before it started up by by a 169 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: friend of mine who had also been part of a 170 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,839 Speaker 1: comedy team. And but as soon as I as soon 171 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: as I read the first issue, even though it was 172 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: a very ugly and weird issue, I realized that I 173 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: had found somewhere that I definitely wanted to write for 174 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: and and I in fact started writing for them within 175 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: the next couple of issues. So I started. I was 176 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: first published in them, I think April April of the 177 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: nine and I've been sort of making friends and and 178 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: you know, especially in Los Angeles, were as learning at 179 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: the time, and uh, there was much a much better 180 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 1: kind of underground in San Francisco and Los Angeles for 181 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: comedy than there was in New York. So that also 182 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: helped to sort of mature me in that direction. And 183 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: for people who don't know Lampoon was, Lampoon was Henry 184 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: Beard and Doug Kenny and uh, and they both were 185 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: from the Harvard Lampers described them well. Doug was a 186 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: very strange character, very good looking, like a real college 187 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: joe good looks, you know, blue eyes and and shell 188 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: theer length hair, and and and but but curiously unsure 189 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: of himself, and he was a terrible editor. He would 190 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 1: say things like this sucks, but I don't know why, 191 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:11,160 Speaker 1: which is really helpful. But he but he was also brilliant. 192 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean, the first time I met Doug, he told 193 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: me that the British humor wasn't funny. It was like 194 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: the first thing that started off the interview, but then 195 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: somehow it's um it moped very quickly into him doing 196 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: a parody of a novelist called Mrs Gaskell, who was 197 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: the nineteenth century novelist, and and doing it brilliantly, so 198 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: sort of the words just came out of him, and 199 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,679 Speaker 1: then you know, ten seconds later he was showing me 200 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: he could put his entire fist into his mouth. Was 201 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: his background. He came from Ohio. His dad was a 202 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: tennis coach. He'd been a real star. No, not at all, 203 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: not at all. And Henry was like the other end 204 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 1: of the spectrum. Henry. Henry was like very academic looking 205 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: with with sort of informous amounts of spiky hair, and 206 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: smoked a pipe incessantly even in bed, it seemed, and 207 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: and just a brilliant intellectual dissector of things, and when 208 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: did you start writing with them? Um. The first piece 209 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 1: that really got me on the map actually was a 210 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: piece called with with Them. I did it with Henry 211 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: and it was called nine Days that Shook Woke, Iowa. 212 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: And it was about the assassination or attempted assassionate assassination 213 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: of Spiro agnew Um with with somebody had put an 214 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: ice pick in his head in Woke, Iowa during campaign stop. 215 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: And the difficulty with it was not whether this was 216 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 1: an assassination, but how many people claimed to have been 217 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 1: the assassin I was. I was terrified. I thought I 218 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: was going to be deported immediately. I wouldn't even put 219 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: my name on it. I called back then that was 220 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: entirely possible. You want to believe absolutely. It would keep 221 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,440 Speaker 1: warning me now that it may be impossible again if 222 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: I don't stop with some of my current that the 223 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: Attorney General then John Mitchell was was was actively talking 224 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: about suspending the First Amendment because administrations and so on, 225 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: so um so on that. But that really got me 226 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: sort of set and then and then I then I 227 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: was sort of in the groove then because that that 228 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: was really kind of what I did at the Lampoon 229 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 1: how long did you do that at the Lampoon for 230 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: to run. I was there until seventy eight, so for 231 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: eight years. Yeah, we know. During that time, obviously, you know, 232 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: comedy and not not just satire, for comedy in general 233 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: goes through this tremendous expansion. You know, Saturday Night Live 234 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: comes one five and you know, Lauren is always quick 235 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: to point out that when Saturday Night Live debut in 236 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five, there might have been fourteen comedy clubs 237 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: in the entire country, and now there's four hundred comedy 238 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: clubs in the country. So um, back then, from seventy 239 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:47,679 Speaker 1: to seventy eight, was there a thought on your partner, 240 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: did you actually go out and write films and TV shows? 241 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: You ever want to become a TV writer or a 242 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: movie screenplay right, The last thing I wanted to do 243 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: is go back into television at that point. I'm really 244 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: that that that was I how lucrative it might be 245 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: absolute how did you avoid that trap? The Lampoon took 246 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: a stance very early on that that it was kind 247 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: of an alternative to television. In fact, we never did 248 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: anything about television. It was very interesting. It didn't occur 249 00:13:11,559 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: to us it was just like it was an alternate 250 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: reality that wasn't our reality. Our reality had much more 251 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: to do with campus and what people were worrying about 252 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: on campus. And I think really it's it's true to 253 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: say that for those four or five years seventy two two, 254 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: S n L and a little bit and and we 255 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: went on afterwards, but we really had that, we really 256 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: had the landscape to ourselves. Is the Lampoon still being 257 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: published now and it stopped when it really gave up 258 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: the ghost in the at the end of the nineties, 259 00:13:44,440 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 1: And what do you think changed to contribute them? Just 260 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: a natural attrition or there were other things replacing in 261 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: terms of set times yees. So well, there was several issues. 262 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 1: One one was that everything has ever every comedy enterprise 263 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 1: has a kind of five year initial curves, and SNL 264 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 1: had two uh and um and that then that was 265 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: very apparent when especially in seventy five when the founders 266 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 1: actually got brought out, So that that was one one 267 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: aspect to it. Then the other was obviously that once SNL. 268 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: SNL basically took our cast, i mean the cost of 269 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: a review that we were doing at the time and 270 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: put it and made it the SNL cast. I mean 271 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: Pelluci and and Guilda and Bill Murray, we're all working 272 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: for the National Input. At that point, what were they doing. 273 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: They were doing the radio show they find the National 274 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: Lampoon Radio Radio, and um then they also did a review, 275 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: which is where Lawn saw them. Actually they had come 276 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: or they were Chicago, Chicago and Canada, not Tonoranto. So 277 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: those who were interested in doing television sort of decamped 278 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: to SNL. And although SNL did have censorship issues, they 279 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: certainly couldn't do what the Lampoon did on a monthly basis. 280 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: So I guess they saw us. They sort of took 281 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: all the oxygen out of our particular rock. So I 282 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: guess it. Beard and yourself and Kenny, if I follow, 283 00:15:04,520 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: you did not have an appetite for working in television. 284 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: You didn't want to go back to a television show. 285 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,520 Speaker 1: But other people that work that were performers certainly didn't 286 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 1: mind being on television. Yes, precisely. The magazine began to 287 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: go into sort of slight decline, but I kept it 288 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: alive for a couple more years, and UM, well then 289 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 1: I then I quit, and um almost immediately did not 290 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: The New York Times um, which was this huge parody 291 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: of the New York Times, and that sort of put 292 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: me on the map as as a person who could 293 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: do parodies and everyone at times respond to you in 294 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: as agnew esque away as I might imagine, were they 295 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: just as actually um no, actually a Brosenthal said, we 296 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,000 Speaker 1: acknowledged that the people who did this parody must love 297 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 1: the New York Times, which was shrewd shrewd um and 298 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: But what he never said, what he never said was 299 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 1: anything about was the fact that was then, like McCarthy, I, 300 00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: you know, investigations into the into the Times staff to 301 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: see who, if anybody had collaborated, and I actually were 302 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: a couple of key people who had so. But anyway, 303 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: that kind of put me on the map. And I 304 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,160 Speaker 1: did a lot of parodies after that, and did some 305 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: projects with Chris stuff, and one of them was a 306 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: book called the Eighties look Back, which we published on 307 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: January the thirty one nine and um and was a 308 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: big bestseller and really was a kind of extension of 309 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: what the Lampoon used to do, but in a in 310 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: a slightly more commercial format, and it was brought by 311 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: some studio as the movie rights were brought by some 312 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: studio and they wanted to make a movie of this book, 313 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: sort of futuristic comedy. So that was the first time 314 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: that movies really appeared on my on my personal horizon. 315 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: But by then The Lampoon already done, Animal House and 316 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: Caddyshack by then coming up. Tony Hendra discusses the Benedictine Monk, 317 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: who became like a father to him as Hendra left 318 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: the Poon in the late nineteen seventies to pursue his 319 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: own projects. Another genius of wit, Molly Ringwald, was just 320 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: getting her start, the definitive it girl of the nineteen 321 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: eighties who inspired John Hughes films like Sixteen Candles. Ringwald 322 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: helped shape a generation. I just trusted him, and I've 323 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 1: really never felt this since. I mean, John actually had 324 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: less experience than I had at that point. I mean, 325 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: sixteen Candles was his directorial debut, So it was really 326 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 1: like we were kids in that way together, and he 327 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: was really like a like a confidante. You could say. 328 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: It kind of seems weird, you know, I heard how well. 329 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,879 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm older than than he was when we met. 330 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: But when I was thirty six years old, like I 331 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: didn't want to talk to people who were fifteen. I didn't. 332 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: Why do you think he did? I don't know. Take 333 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: a listen to my conversation with Molly Ringwald at Here's 334 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:12,400 Speaker 1: the Thing dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin and you're 335 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing. After performing on The Ed 336 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,959 Speaker 1: Sullivan Show, editing the National Lampoon and successfully parodying the 337 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 1: most popular newspaper in the world, Tony Hendra could have 338 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:30,080 Speaker 1: retired at thirty seven. Instead, the English born writer, comedian 339 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: and actor kept reaching new heights, acting in a Rob 340 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: Reiner mockumentary, creating a successful British TV series called Spitting Image, 341 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:43,160 Speaker 1: and writing a bestseller on a monk who saved his soul. 342 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 1: But despite his ability to capture viewers attention, the seventies 343 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 1: six year old was never much of a TV fan himself. 344 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 1: I certainly didn't do any appointment viewing, you know, and 345 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,119 Speaker 1: I would never stay up to catch a show. So 346 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,880 Speaker 1: you've never taped, recorded, you never follow. There's no television 347 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 1: drama or comedy that you've absolutely none No none, I 348 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: mean I I to this day, I don't watch a 349 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: lot of television. I mean it's partly partly upbringing We 350 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: didn't have a television when I was kid. Um and 351 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 1: was you know, still very early days in England for 352 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: television and and and and but I just was just 353 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: I don't have that ingrained habit of turning on the 354 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 1: television for the news. For example, I read a paper. 355 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: And to this day, I mean now I watch a 356 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: lot of Netflix and stuff like that because it's such 357 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: a great series. Yeah, but I'm usual something that you 358 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: that you like, what something you recommend. Okay, I liked 359 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: very much show called Catastrophe, which is you Have the Baby. Yeah, exactly, 360 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: very funny and very well written. Um And I don't know, 361 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. It's already gone out of 362 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 1: my mind. Um. But but but that's that. The only 363 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: time I watched television really is is late at night 364 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: when i'm you know, having my cheese and cheese and 365 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 1: wine or whatever it is. And um. But but it's 366 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:05,680 Speaker 1: it's just not a habit I've ever had. I must say, 367 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: it's it's it's very interesting you should say that. Well. 368 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: I used to watch Will and Grace. I love Will 369 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,960 Speaker 1: and Grace because well because I had partly because I 370 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: had two children who watched it. Um, and I must 371 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: say you have how many kids? I have three by 372 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: this marriage, and you have some previous you have two, 373 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,199 Speaker 1: and then three is five? Yes, okay? And and the 374 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 1: ones who watch Will and Grace were this current batch 375 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,679 Speaker 1: Will and Grace fan and there are other great shows 376 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: thirty Rock. They were just taste, very good taste. But 377 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: but but only because they watched watched these shows. Would 378 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: you know, Di Di? Did I watch them? Up to 379 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: that point? I can't tell you. I mean, I get 380 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 1: my decades mixed up. I couldn't tell you if The 381 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 1: Day After and Roots were in the same decade, which 382 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: actually they were, but Winds of War, but I wouldn't 383 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: be able to tell you right off the hat off 384 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: the back, you know, any of that stuff rich Man, 385 00:20:58,359 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: poor Man and Wins of War, which one was Robert 386 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: mitchum in. Yeah, I remember, Yeah, it's all a blur 387 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: to me now. I remember. I was on nots Landing, 388 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: which was the more kind of working man's version. There 389 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: was Falcon Crest and Dynasty and Dallas and those were 390 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: all the Quotinian concerns of rich people, and not Slanding 391 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: was there were normal people, the raverage people. So I 392 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: was on I was on Miami Vice A couple of times? 393 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: Would you play continuing character? I played a wicked recording 394 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 1: executive who killed who killed? What's his name? What? What's 395 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 1: the what's don? Don Johnson? Don Johnson's What's what was 396 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,920 Speaker 1: his character's name? Sonny Crockett? Yes, And I knew nothing 397 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: at all about show. I'd never watched Miami Vice, and 398 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:48,439 Speaker 1: it flew me down to Miami and I had to 399 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: do the show. And it was pleasant, it was, it 400 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: was all right, It was, it was, it was. It 401 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: treats you well. They certainly treated me well. The Cubans 402 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,439 Speaker 1: were very friendly. Sure. But the the only thing I 403 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,719 Speaker 1: remember from it is that I, you know, by then 404 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,520 Speaker 1: I've done a few movies, was that Don Johnson obviously 405 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: captures me. There's a bit of a foot chase, and 406 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: he knocks me down, and the script said and they 407 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: roll over and over on the grass. And the director 408 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: said it took me aside and said, Okay, I know 409 00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: it says you roll over and over, but somehow you've 410 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: got to roll over and over. But never get on 411 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: top of dawn. You'll go crazy. Never make pelvis to 412 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: pelvis contact or you'll go crazy. Pelvis. So what happened. Basically, 413 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: what happened was that I had to roll over, and 414 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,880 Speaker 1: then he would chase after me, and then I'd roll 415 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: over some more and he chase after me, and then 416 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,680 Speaker 1: he'd roll over, and then I would chase after him. 417 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:49,920 Speaker 1: But I never got appendently rolling down the hill after 418 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 1: I mean, very stupid rock executive. Obviously we didn't just 419 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: get up and run away, but it was very strange. 420 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: And I've got to go back and get a copy 421 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: of that show see that. I want to see this 422 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:02,080 Speaker 1: that scene um so a career as an actor. That 423 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,000 Speaker 1: was none of the cars either. It wasn't really I 424 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,879 Speaker 1: must say here, you didn't You weren't seduced by that 425 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: at all. No, by at that point, I was so 426 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: taken with the whole idea of being a writer that 427 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: that it just wasn't that. That's what you plus, rolling 428 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: down the hill wasn't enough of that. It's a good story. 429 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: I'd rather write the story than do it again, you 430 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 1: know what I mean. Now I want to ask you 431 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: when did you write Father Joe? What you did that 432 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: come out two thousand four? And this is a relationship 433 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:32,880 Speaker 1: with a Catholic priest. No, actually it's a Benedictine Monk. Well, 434 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: I met him when I was I was having, um, 435 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: what I thought was a passionate love affair with with 436 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: another another man's wife who was told I'm fourteen or 437 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,760 Speaker 1: fifteen between fourteen fifteen in love with a man's wife. 438 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: Grown I wasn't in love, but I was having I 439 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: thought I was in love, but I was having an 440 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: affair with this, with this rather sad woman actually, who 441 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: was married to a quite tyrannical husband. You were literally 442 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 1: having an affair with her. Oh yeah, okay, well actually, 443 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 1: well that's the point. No, it was an affair by 444 00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: then prevailing British standards, which meant, um, you know that 445 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: I got the first space. But nonetheless, just this court 446 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: caused obviously when when the husband found out about it, 447 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: it caused a big comfuffle and he came upon us. Um, 448 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 1: you came upon us actually, uh, going a little further 449 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:33,239 Speaker 1: than first space, and yeah, pretty much whatever whatever we 450 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: were calling it. But but in any in any event, 451 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,719 Speaker 1: it's um, she had a top off and and they 452 00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: lived in a trailer, and so it wasn't difficult for 453 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 1: him to see that that was the case. But he 454 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: was a very uptight British guy, you know, and he's old. 455 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 1: He was very religious. He was he would have been 456 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: twenty six. She said she was twenty two, but she 457 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: was probably a few years. What do you think it 458 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,919 Speaker 1: was about you and your fourteen year old iteration that 459 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:04,200 Speaker 1: she was just yeah, you're gorgeous, funny? Well I wasn't 460 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: actually particularly funny, but I think she I think she 461 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: was a bit poetic in those days. And him, yeah, 462 00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,560 Speaker 1: right exactly, And and yeah, I was very much the obvious. 463 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: He was a mathematician, physicist, worked on sort of nuclear 464 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: bomb somewhere over who who knew what he was doing. Um, 465 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: But he was passionate convert and you know, unture me, 466 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: having been brought up a Catholic, Converts are more Catholic 467 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,280 Speaker 1: than the pope, and he was. He was just fanatic. 468 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 1: But he was also giving me religious instruction because I 469 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: was going to a school that didn't that there was 470 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: a Protestant school and mixed marriage agreements said that the 471 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:42,960 Speaker 1: um that the child, all the children had to be 472 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 1: raised Catholics. You know, you know, there's giving Catholic instruction. 473 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: So he was giving me religious instruction. And that's how 474 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: all this began. UM And when he found out, he 475 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: insisted that he and I go to a monastery on 476 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: the Isle of Wight, an island off the coast of England, 477 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: where he knew a monk who would take care of this. 478 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 1: As he put it, and um, was he ever articulated 479 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,320 Speaker 1: what he believed needed to be taken care of. No, 480 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: he said, he said, the crisis has arisen, you know, 481 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: in our marriage. And and and as he put it, 482 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: we men, it's it's we men have an obligation to 483 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: take care of it. That was the immediate reason for 484 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: my going in total terror and fear, because the whole 485 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: whole idea of monks, you know, people in cows, going 486 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: down dark corridors and flogging people and flogging themselves, just 487 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: nothing more horrible and and and but when I got there, 488 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 1: I found this incredibly wonderful guy, very funny, immensely wise 489 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: guy who was about mid forties. And he had a 490 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: kind of very English. He had a kind of he 491 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: had he had an English word saying, viva are like 492 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: you know transor that they transer he should transfer things 493 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,679 Speaker 1: pair pair, and and and and and he was just 494 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: he was just enchanting for character, quite the opposite to 495 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:09,360 Speaker 1: what I expected, and he threw he threw this guy out, 496 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: He threw out the husband and said, Tony and I 497 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,159 Speaker 1: want to talk. You must go. And and then we 498 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 1: had this. One part of taking care of this was 499 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: getting back on the boat done. And so I went 500 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: to a very odd confession, like unlike anyone had had before, 501 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: where you know, I knelt beside an armchair, and he 502 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: listened to everything and said, you haven't done anything really 503 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: very serious except as you put it. He said, you've 504 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: done nothing truly evil, Tony, except committing the sin of selfishness. 505 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,760 Speaker 1: And that was all he had to say about it, 506 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 1: and and anywhere, but that this this blossom very quickly 507 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: into a into a real friendship. That that I mean. 508 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: I just adored this guy. He was He was someone 509 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 1: you could turn to would practically any kind of problem. 510 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: And men was also very learned in his way, you know. 511 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,640 Speaker 1: And and monastery was gorgeous, and the music was the 512 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: Congorian chant was gorgeous. The book came out when he 513 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: came out in two thousand and four. So you so, 514 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: so you come back to this, Yeah, how many years later, 515 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,919 Speaker 1: I mean decades later, that literally decade. Why well, I 516 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 1: sort of see what do you all your life? Yes, 517 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: we we maintained a relationship all all all his life. Yes, 518 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 1: oh absolutely. I mean I never lost time, did you mean? 519 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 1: I mean I lost my faith? I went come to 520 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: come to come to America. I became a you know, 521 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: a satirist. I committed many acts of official blass for me, um, 522 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, and and and and so on, and but 523 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: I never quite lost touch with father Joe. And eventually, 524 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: I mean I I hit my own personal bottom at 525 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: a certain point and came back to him. What was 526 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: your bottom? Well, my bottom was mostly drugs, mostly to 527 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: me too, And we're kidney spirits. Well he should have 528 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: met Joe, but but but he was. He was just 529 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: the same, and and and he it was. It was 530 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: kind of like a partical son, you know, coming home 531 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: to his father. It really was that kind of story. Now, um, 532 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: final edition radio hour or something you're working on now 533 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: you still do it? Oh yeah? Sure? How did that start? 534 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: Leaving a lot long way ahead here? Obviously, But but 535 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: the I had not been doing anything with comedy very much. 536 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: I was doing a lot of writing. Give me some 537 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: examples of that period. I used to write for a 538 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of magazines in the nineties, Harper's, g Q, and 539 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 1: Vanity Fair and I mean all all the all the 540 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: sort of obvious magazines. Um, and I would do things 541 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: like one of the pieces I did with for Harper's 542 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 1: was about the grandson of Antonio or Done, who was 543 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 1: a bullfighter. I know you probably hate this, but that 544 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: he was a bullfighter of extraordinary talent um and he 545 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: was only like eighteen. And I covered his first Temporado, 546 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: which had been season um and went to all his 547 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 1: fights and wrote wrote, I found that I was really 548 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,200 Speaker 1: writing about Spain and how much I love Spain's much 549 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: as anything. And I have to say, George Clinton said 550 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:05,080 Speaker 1: it was the best piece of writing about bull fighting 551 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,960 Speaker 1: that he'd read since anyway, fantastic, So that was great. 552 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: So stuff like that, and that's seductive once you start 553 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 1: doing that. And when you know the crash happened and 554 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: all that happened, it just was so outrageous and so 555 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: ridiculous that I, you know, my my satire buds began 556 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: to prick again. And um, I had been writing for 557 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: the Huff Post. I've been I've been writing sort of 558 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: sadoirical pieces of well, but they were more like commentary 559 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: than actual satire. Um. So then Murdoch bought the Wall 560 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:44,160 Speaker 1: Street Journal in November I guess of two thousand seven, 561 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: and he was he announced that he was going to 562 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: change it. So a group of us very quickly got together, 563 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: led by me, and said, we will put out the 564 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,560 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal as it will look when Murdoch has 565 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: screwed it up, um and turned it into the New 566 00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,560 Speaker 1: York Post basically and m and so we did. We 567 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: did a parody of the Wall Street Journal called My 568 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal with rouping on the cover going my 569 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: Wall Street Channel, you know, um and um. And it 570 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 1: did quite well actually, And has the Wall Street Journal 571 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: gotten closer to what you envisioned it would be under 572 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 1: Murdoch's ownership, Well, I mean certainly graphically, yeah, I mean 573 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: we you know, we put it with all color and 574 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: there's much shorter pieces and graphics all over the most 575 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: change and absolutely, I mean. But what most importantly it 576 00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: was a platform for really getting into the financial community 577 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: and how they had completely looted the country. So it 578 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: gave us a platform to do all that stuff. And 579 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,640 Speaker 1: all the ads you know, were about Lehman brothers and 580 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: bear Sterns and all that. Each one of those was 581 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: a jam of one kind or another. But the Best 582 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: Stones ad was a typical sort of kind of ad 583 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: where all it was just a beautiful woman's ass and 584 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: bere sterne, right, I mean, and uh and that and 585 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: that's how they thought they would get your sympathy back, 586 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: you know, by by putting a beautiful, beautiful woman on 587 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: the Yeah, that kind of stuff. So anyway, that got 588 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: me started and uh, and that very quickly led to 589 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: doing another parody a couple of years later, which was 590 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,959 Speaker 1: supposed to be the final edition of the New York Times. 591 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 1: This is when the New York Times, like two thousand 592 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: and ten, two thousand and eleven, everyone thought it's going 593 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: to go under. So he thought, what the hell, We'll 594 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: do the final edition of The York Times. And that 595 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: started the Final Edition and we kept that going as 596 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: a website and then spun off a radio show. And 597 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm wondering, what you is your final edition? Media? Are 598 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: you looking forward to a trove of material to satire 599 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,760 Speaker 1: with where we're at now? Well, it's it's interesting you 600 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 1: should say that, because it's um because that really was 601 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: what I was talking about earlier when we were talking 602 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,920 Speaker 1: about the buzz that I got kind of the challenge, 603 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: a buzz of challenge, if you like, when Nixon and 604 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: Agney were elected, because you know, a couple of less 605 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: than a couple of years after that, I was with 606 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 1: the National Lampoon, and a couple of years after that 607 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: we we had seventy two election, right, but by then 608 00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:10,560 Speaker 1: the magazine was really thundering along, I mean, the circulator 609 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,560 Speaker 1: rising all time, and we started a group called there 610 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: was a new pack called Satirists for Nixon Agnew keep 611 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: them in office and us in business, you know. And 612 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 1: two years after that he was gone, and I couldn't 613 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: possibly say that that's uh, that that was our doing, 614 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,000 Speaker 1: although Carl Bernstein did once say to me that I 615 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,720 Speaker 1: think half joking, Lee, but the other half wasn't joking. 616 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: That if it hadn't been to the National Lampoon, Nixon 617 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,320 Speaker 1: wouldn't have resigned, because we were helping to create an 618 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: atmosphere where it was impossible possible for him to stay 619 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: in office. So there is hope, you know. And then 620 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: I must say all my crew were very taken with 621 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 1: that story of that process, that it is always possible, 622 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: and you've always got to keep trying, because if you 623 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: don't then it will be absolutely as bad as you think. 624 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: And it's a great parallel. Six eight was a very 625 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: bad Yeah, nothing nothing as bad as that has happened 626 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: to us well as I as I struggle to put 627 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,360 Speaker 1: on that wig every Saturday, I'm gonna remember your words. 628 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: And when we stopped doing that, yeah, we we we 629 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,439 Speaker 1: allow for something else. Perhaps, well, there's many many lines 630 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: are forced to that, but one of them is that 631 00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:28,920 Speaker 1: the worst thing that happens in situations like that is 632 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,919 Speaker 1: that they turned the tables on you. Um. I did 633 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 1: this show in England called Spitting Image, which was a huge, 634 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 1: huge success. I only helped create it, but but it 635 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 1: was It was a puppet show where the puppets were 636 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: all these incredibly good grotesque caricatures and public figures, right 637 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: and this was in the early eighties or mid ages, 638 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: so the most popular of our puppets with Thatcher's Cabinet. 639 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: And at the at first they were furious that that 640 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: we were doing this, totally furious. And then as the 641 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 1: show but got began to find its feet and got 642 00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: more and more successful, and these puppets became an institution 643 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: almost you know, the Leon Britton's the Chancellor of the 644 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: Exchequer had this sort of puppet and I'd love to 645 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: show that point in mid to late eighties, but my 646 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,680 Speaker 1: co creator told me that he knew that the show 647 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: had failed all that it was at a highest success 648 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,800 Speaker 1: when Leon Britton called up and asked for his puppet. 649 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: When it wore up, he was going to put it 650 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: in the corner and that would be dinner table conversation. 651 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: So we have to be careful. I don't mean you 652 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: have to be careful, but one has to be careful 653 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: about about these people too much. Yes, indeed people, that's 654 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: what it is. And it is great that he hates it. 655 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: That's great. I mean, at least you got under a skin. 656 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: As President Trump gives new urgency to satire, Tony Hendra 657 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: and the Nash a lampoon or proof that political parody 658 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 1: done right stands the test of time. This is Alec 659 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.