1 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Welcome to Latino USA. I'm Fernande Chavarri in for our 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: host MARIEO Jossa. Today we're looking back at the life 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: and legacy of the first and only Latin American Pope ever, 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: Pope Francis, or Papa Francisco, as he was known in 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: the Spanish speaking world. On Holy Sunday or Easter Sunday, 6 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: the Pope blessed a crowd from the balcony at Saint 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: Peter's Basilica. 8 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: He is coming out onto the balcony Curlie fertility. 9 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 3: Borna Pascua. 10 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 1: The next day, on April twenty, first. 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,199 Speaker 3: Breaking news, Pope Francis, the first Latin American leader of 12 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 3: the Roman Catholic Church, has died. 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: He was eighty eight years old and had been battling 14 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: pneumonia for weeks in the hospital. By his own request 15 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: and breaking with hundreds of years of tradition, Pope Francis 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: was buried in a simple, unadorned tomb. Days later, on 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: May seventh, the cardinals of the world will gather inside 18 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 1: the Sistine Chapel to choose a new leader of the 19 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: Catholic Church. But before the new Pope is named, we 20 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: want to remember Francisco's papacy, its most praised achievements and 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: its most criticized shortcomings, plus how his leadership may influence 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 1: the church in the years to come and for that. 23 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 1: Today we are joined by two people who have different 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 1: experiences with Catholicism and with the papacy. First, Natalia Imperatori 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: Lee is a professor of religious studies at Manhattan College 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: in the Bronx and also the author of Women and 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: the Church. Welcome to the show, Natalia, be Menita, thank 28 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: you for having me as yes, and also with us 29 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 1: today is Antonia Serejido, a friend of Latino USA and 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: host of the weekly podcast in Perfect Paradise out of 31 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: Los Angeles Public Radio LAist. Antonia is Argentinian American whose 32 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: family has been following the pope since his days in 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: Buenos Aires. Welcome back to the show, Antho. 34 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 4: Very excited to be here. 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 1: To start, Natalia and Antonia, I'd love to hear if 36 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: there is like a pope moment for you, anything that 37 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: comes up when you think of like the Pope. Natalie, 38 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: let's start with you. 39 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 2: There are several this pope moments for me. Some are 40 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: good and some are quite bad. The good one that 41 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 2: sticks out for me is an image of him embracing 42 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: a man who had a severe disability, someone who would 43 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: definitely like draw attention and pity and probably a little 44 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: bit of fear. 45 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 5: The Pope took the man's face in his hands, kissed him, 46 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:39,800 Speaker 5: and blessed him. 47 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 2: The heartwarming embrace happened yesterday in Saint Peter's Square. That 48 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 2: is a signature moment that he was going to be 49 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 2: a pope that was among the people, not above the people. 50 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: There's also some bad ones. He called women, especially women 51 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: in theology like myself the strawberries the cake of theology. 52 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: And yes, Ferananda made a fantastic face about that, and 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: well deserved because it really was absolutely cringe worthy. I 54 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: think a lot of the time that Francis spoke about women, 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: he really struggled not to be offensive, but a lot 56 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 2: of the actions he took on behalf of women were 57 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,359 Speaker 2: actually quite good. So that's a contradiction that we'll probably 58 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,399 Speaker 2: get into a little bit later. 59 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, Antonia, my pope moment. 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 4: Well, I saw the Pope in person in twenty sixteen. 61 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: He visited New York City twenty fifteen. Right, Yeah, I'm sorry, 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: Central Park RD is an estimated eighty thousand people cheered 63 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 1: Pope Francis. 64 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 4: He drove through Central Park and at the time, Snapchat 65 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 4: was like the popular social media application, and there was 66 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 4: like a little filter where it had a little cartoon 67 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 4: of the Pope at the bottom, which was helpful because 68 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 4: he drove by so quickly that taking a picture of 69 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: him was actually difficult to do. I was kind of 70 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 4: amazed how the popemobile is moving, but I think it 71 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 4: sort of encapsulates the fact that this Pope was, especially 72 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 4: for me, who's not a religious person, like, had so 73 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 4: much significance beyond just the Catholic community. He was really 74 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 4: this important cultural icon through like you know, the first 75 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 4: big AI photo meme. 76 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 6: This just appears to be Pope Francis wearing a white 77 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 6: puffer jacket with an iced out cross. 78 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: And Pope Francess was genuinely funny. He had some really 79 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: great moments behind the scenes that was close to him, 80 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: say he liked a good joke like the rest of us. 81 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: For me, I don't have an anecdote with this Pope, 82 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 1: but when I think of the Pope as like the 83 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: representation of the Pope, I think of Undo Joan Paul 84 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 1: the second, and I specifically remember being like eleven years 85 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: old maybe, and my mom goes, he's he's gonna the 86 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: Pope is going to do a blessing on TV. And 87 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: they said that if you put stuff in front of 88 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,720 Speaker 1: the TV, he could bless it for you. So I 89 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 1: am like, you know, like scrambling to find a picture 90 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 1: of my dad. My parents were divorced at the time. 91 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: My dad was living in the US. I missed him terribly. 92 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: And then I grabbed my CD from the Spice Girls 93 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: and I stood in front of the TV and waited 94 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:19,039 Speaker 1: for to bless those two things. And I swore. I 95 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: was like, Okay, he's protecting my dad, and he's protecting 96 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: the Spice Girls. 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,839 Speaker 3: Spy Girl. That's good. They needed protection. 98 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: And that's what I think about when I think about 99 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: the Pope, his relevance, his significance, that it could transcend 100 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,159 Speaker 1: the TV. He had these powers. But since then I 101 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,039 Speaker 1: moved to the US and I am no longer practicing 102 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: catholic I have walked away from the religion I did 103 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 1: a long time ago. So that's sort of where we 104 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: all stand when it comes to where we are on Catholicism. 105 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: So let me bring us back to the present now 106 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: to speak of Pope Francis again. Papa Francisco and Natalia, 107 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: what were you doing when you got the news that 108 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: the Pope had passed? 109 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: So I was waking up in the morning, it was 110 00:05:53,560 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 2: Easter Monday, and I opened Instagram and I was like, wait. 111 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:04,239 Speaker 3: What he was He had just gotten out of the hospital. 112 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: Like I really thought that he was going to pull 113 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: through and give us maybe three more years. So I 114 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 2: was really shocked. And then I was really sad because 115 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: it's not that he didn't seem like the pope to me. 116 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: He did, but he was like the best possible pope. 117 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: This one was really kind of, first of all, one 118 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: of us, not just one of us in terms of 119 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 2: being Latino or whatever, but one of us in terms 120 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 2: of really seeing the good that the Church can do 121 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: and sort of appealing really broadly, and that his legacy 122 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: is in peril had me really sort of feeling a 123 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: lot of anxiety about the future of Catholicism. 124 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: Antonia, I want to hear about how your family reacted 125 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: to his passing. In Argentina. 126 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 4: The person who is still very Catholic in my family 127 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 4: is my grandma Yawela Madi, who I adore, and it's 128 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 4: very interesting because neither of my parents were religious. But 129 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 4: for me, what I saw Catholicism as growing up was 130 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 4: my grandmother's sense of community. And I sent a message 131 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 4: to my grandma and I told her, I'm so sad 132 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 4: about the Pope's passing, and she was like, yes, but 133 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 4: we have to be so grateful we had him, you know, 134 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 4: as long as we did. And she sounded so resolute 135 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: and just so proud to have had an Argentine pope. 136 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: And your grandma sent you a note that had a 137 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: really interesting line in it that said, Naries prophet. 138 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 7: Navie prophet and Sutierra imucho patriot. 139 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, she's saying so like Jesus says, nobody is a 140 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 4: prophet in their own land, and that he was very misunderstood. 141 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 7: Perimo the pro personal mondoos parallel money. 142 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 4: That she hopes that his successor is somebody who continues 143 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 4: with Pope Francis's message of peace in the world, taking 144 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 4: care of the environment and social justice for all of humanity. 145 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 7: Francisco de Gan Sempas. 146 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 1: Staying on his messaging Natalia, I'm curious, what are some 147 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: of the ways that Pope Francis brought his cultural identity 148 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: to his papacy. 149 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 2: Francis is himself the child of migrants, right. He knows 150 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 2: what it means to have to leave everything behind. And 151 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: I think one of the most significant things that sort 152 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 2: of tipped us off was when he decided that his 153 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,319 Speaker 2: first papal trip would be to Lampusa. 154 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: Lam produces the first port of safety for thousands of 155 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: migrants and asylum seekers from North Africa every year. 156 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: Italy was struggling with assimilating a great influx of migrants, 157 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 2: and Francis, rather than weigh in politically or make a 158 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 2: statement or anything like that, went to Lampe Lusa. He 159 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 2: said that was the first trip he wanted to make 160 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 2: as the pope, and it really signaled that this was 161 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: someone who wanted to be close to people on the margins. 162 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 2: And I think that that is something that he gets 163 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: from Latin American social organizing, from being in the global South, 164 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: where you're not really the protagonists of the universe, but 165 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: rather the universe is kind of happening to you. So 166 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: I do feel like he understands that that people are 167 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 2: leaving really untenable situations and that there's no kind of 168 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,719 Speaker 2: victory in migration. Another example of this kind of solidarity 169 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: that he had up until the last day he was alive, 170 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: he called a church in Gaza every night. 171 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 3: Pope Francis spoke nightly with Gaza's only Catholic church. 172 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 2: He did that even when he was like mostly incapacitated. 173 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 2: He made a point to just call and check in 174 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 2: and be with them, even though he couldn't be with them. 175 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: He didn't make a statement, he didn't go on TV 176 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 2: about it. But that kind of example is what makes 177 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 2: his legacy more transcending the church, right, It transcends just Catholics, 178 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,120 Speaker 2: and it sets a moral example I think for everyone, 179 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: including people who've walked away like yourself. We call you guys, 180 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: the duns, and it's okay to be done. 181 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino US say what Papa Francisco changed, 182 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: what he didn't, and a plot twist we didn't see coming. 183 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: But before we take a break, we want to share 184 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 1: some of the voicemails that we received from Latino USA 185 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: listeners about what the Pope meant to them and for 186 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: some what it was like to be in Rome the 187 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: day after he passed. Take a listen. 188 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 6: My name is lizzutiis from Tucson, Arizona. To me, for 189 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 6: Francis was just such a punk rock figure I left 190 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 6: the church for years and just his kindness, His logical 191 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 6: thinking is critical thinking, even though it was imperfect, it was. 192 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 3: So punk rock. 193 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 6: Hi, my name is Karen Vegas. Pope Francis is a 194 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 6: reminder of the Jesus and his life that Catholics believe 195 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 6: in and the promise that a human being, a pope, 196 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 6: could be like him in this day and age. As 197 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 6: the days, weeks and years go by, will begin to 198 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,840 Speaker 6: truly comprehend and grasp his positive and transformational influence. Papa Francisco, 199 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 6: disca and sampas. 200 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 8: Hi, I'm Luciana, I am from Argentina. I still remember 201 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 8: that emotion. I felt it and watched the Pope's innagras. 202 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 8: The emotion brought tears to all of us. The pride 203 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 8: I'm d sold by the majority of Argentina people would 204 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 8: be eternal, just like him. 205 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 9: We never thought that we will be coming to Rome 206 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,880 Speaker 9: with no pope. It was four hours waiting to see him. 207 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:18,440 Speaker 9: In about an hour inside Saint Peter's Basilica, you could 208 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 9: feel the grief of the people inside the church. 209 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 10: And Albi and loyalty understands in the dale simply come 210 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 10: camier pos you know the nah in sense, we need. 211 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 9: Discrip simply as a moment, and it's supposed they will 212 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 9: need never be forgotten because of his commitment with the poor, 213 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 9: with the less fortunate, with the immigrants. 214 00:12:55,679 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: Stay with us, yes, hey, we're back. Before the break, 215 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: Natalie and Perratori Lei and Antonio Serrihido broke down the 216 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: cultural significance of Pope Francis papacy. Now let's dig into 217 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: some of the changes that he made and some he didn't. 218 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,120 Speaker 1: Let's get back to our conversation. I want to do 219 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: like a like a sort of in my head, like 220 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,839 Speaker 1: a list of some of the things that the Pope 221 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: did that changed as far as church policy goes. He 222 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: allowed people who had been divorced after having a Catholic 223 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: wedding to take communion, which may seem like a small change, 224 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: but I know from people in my family who are 225 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: in that situation it was incredibly meaningful. 226 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: Colossal colossal, Okay, colossal for Latin America and for Latinos 227 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 2: in the United States. Right, so many of our family 228 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 2: members are married Porlo Seville and not in the church. 229 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 2: Because church weddings have cost money sometimes, which is a 230 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 2: crime against God. And because people don't have the ability, 231 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: they haven't received all of their sacraments because of the 232 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 2: pre shortage, a myriad of reasons. White people don't get 233 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 2: married in the church, and they hold themselves back from 234 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 2: going to receive communion. And all Francis did was say, 235 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 2: you know what, we should probably encourage these people, walk 236 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 2: along with them and see if we can bring them back. 237 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 2: I want the church to be for doss right, and 238 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: I think especially divorced Catholics like huge or people in 239 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: a regular situations is what he called it. 240 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 3: He wants all those people at the table. 241 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: The next thing on the list was he changed the 242 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: way the Catholic Church views the death penalty, saying that 243 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 1: the death penalty was inadmissible. He called pollution a sin. 244 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: He brought in revolutionary shift to the tone of speaking 245 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: of LGBTQ issues. Under his watch, he overhauled the Vatican 246 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: Constitution by allowing any baptized Catholic, including women, to head 247 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: most departments of the Catholic Church's Central Administration. But he 248 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: also upheld the church's views on abortion as being a sin. 249 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 1: There was no change there he once repeated a homophobic 250 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: slur despite his advance in the way he spoke of 251 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: LGBTQ issues, And he made no changes to the rule 252 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: that says the women cannot be ordained as priests. And 253 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if you can speak to the internal strife 254 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: brought on by Francis, you know, why was he open 255 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: to some reform in some cases but not others. And 256 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: even by asking that question, am I being reductive into 257 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: thinking that all of these things should align with one 258 00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: side and therefore you choose one side that says if 259 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: you're pro LGBTQ, you must also be pro abortion. 260 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: You must, you know, Like I think, one of the 261 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: things that is important to say at the outset of 262 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 2: this is Francis change doctrine a lot of it. Making 263 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: the death penalty inadmissible in all cases is a massive shift. 264 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,920 Speaker 2: You can't argue no matter how guilty somebody is, no 265 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 2: matter how heinous their crime is, it doesn't matter in 266 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 2: all cases, like abortion, no matter how you feel about that. 267 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 2: But if you're going to say abortion is impermissible in 268 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 2: all cases, then guess what the death penalty is too. 269 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 2: And this is the source of the contradictions right that 270 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 2: you were talking about Fernanda with the kind of like, 271 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't you be against all these things or for all 272 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: of these things. But a lot of the people who 273 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 2: are on the abortion is wrong in all cases because 274 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 2: babies are innocent and perfect and pure. Team are on 275 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: the but we should be able to kill criminals. 276 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 3: Team. 277 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: Their opposition to abortion is based on blamelessness and blame 278 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: versus the dignity of human life, whereas Francis is pulling 279 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 2: back and being like, no, no, no. If you're saying 280 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 2: the dignity of human life, then every human life has dignity, 281 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 2: even the ones that you think have no value to me. 282 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 4: I understood that Papa Fancisco one of his main goals 283 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: was to welcome more people into the church, that the 284 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 4: Catholic Church had lost a lot of its members and 285 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 4: he really wanted to expand the church's influence and have 286 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 4: more people come in. 287 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: Did he do that? I think so. 288 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 2: If you check any kind of social media in the 289 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: past few days, so much of my feeds are I'm 290 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 2: not even Catholic. I'm not even religious. I don't even 291 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 2: like religion. But I'm sad that this pope has died. 292 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 2: I think it just it depends on how you measure success, right, Right, 293 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: So like let's think about this, right, Historically, Europe, which 294 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 2: is where Christianity was strongest for the longest time, right 295 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: and brought us colonialism and all the rest, has more 296 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: or less it's kind of done with church, really pretty secular, 297 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 2: and consistently Europeans under report how often they go to church, 298 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 2: whereas Americans consistently over report how often they go to church. 299 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: This reveals attitudinal things about like in Europe it's viewed 300 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,880 Speaker 2: as sort of backward and superstitious, whereas in the United 301 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: States it's viewed as a mark of a good person. 302 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: No right exactly. 303 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: But church attendance in and of itself, I don't know 304 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: is going to be a good measure of this pope's impact, 305 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:51,479 Speaker 2: because people's experience of the church is not the pope, right. 306 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 2: People's experience of the church is whatever's going on in 307 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,000 Speaker 2: the church that they go to on Sunday. And sometimes 308 00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 2: that's a good experience and people feel like they are 309 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 2: participating and it's a vibrant community. And sometimes it's like 310 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 2: the celebrant is like yelling at people who don't come 311 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 2: to church. And nobody wants to go back. That is 312 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: a separate issue. I think from was this a successful 313 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:17,680 Speaker 2: papacy was the pope? Because the papacy transcends the Catholic Church. 314 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,240 Speaker 2: It's a global player, and I don't want to play 315 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: it either. Like he's was super good and everything he 316 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 2: did was perfect and it was awesome. 317 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 6: Right. 318 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: It's important to remember the church sits at the UN 319 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: and it has a voice and a vote at the 320 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 2: United Nations, and it frequently votes against things that help 321 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: women in poor countries, like with family planning and stuff 322 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 2: like that. But in terms of Francis's redirection and just 323 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 2: kind of moving the church back toward being a moral 324 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 2: voice after the scandals of the sex abuse cover up 325 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 2: had just sort of decimated the moral voice of the church. 326 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 3: A Pennsylvania grand jury says more than three hundred priests 327 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,959 Speaker 3: sexually abused more than a thousand children and likely thousand 328 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 3: and is more over seven decades. 329 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,320 Speaker 1: When he became pope in twenty thirteen, the church, the 330 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: Catholic Church was riddled with controversy about the sexual assault 331 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: of children by clergymen and the structure in the church 332 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 1: which allowed this to continue. I want to hear a 333 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: little bit about the culture that Pope Francis inherited and 334 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: what steps did he take to deal with the abuse 335 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 1: of children, but perhaps even more important, what he didn't 336 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: do and what he should have done to fight it 337 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: more effectively. 338 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 2: So when Francis ascended to the papacy, well when Benedict resigned, 339 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: you could tell that the rot of sort of protecting 340 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: one another and the culture we called an economy of secrecy, right. 341 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 2: I mean, yes, pedophilia is a scandal, but what scandalized 342 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 2: people was that the church would cover it up, right, 343 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 2: Because when you have a child, we're relying on a 344 00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: sort of social contract to root out and prevent that 345 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,640 Speaker 2: kind of abuse. When you find out that the institution 346 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: that you trusted the most was actively working to protect 347 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,240 Speaker 2: those people, that's a kind of betrayal that you don't 348 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 2: really come back from. And I think that that is 349 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: the pain that people are just still dealing with. Francis, 350 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: you know, I think I give him like a B 351 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 2: minus on this. He did a lot, but when he 352 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 2: was confronted, it's like, no, I don't believe that it's 353 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 2: just calumnia, right, that's calumny or bad gossip. 354 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 9: Pope Francis defended a Chilean bishop saying, quote, the day 355 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 9: they bring me proof, I'll speak. 356 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: There is not one thread of proof. 357 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 3: It's all calumny. Is that clear? 358 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 2: That was his instinct right to say, oh no, my 359 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: friend could never do that, right, But it turns out 360 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 2: his friend did right, and this is anomally. 361 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: Did his friend do it? He is in an institution 362 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: that has time and time and time and time and 363 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 1: time and time again covered it up, yes, and never 364 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: punished anybody. 365 00:20:56,720 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: And given people promotions. However, Francis saw that he was wrong. 366 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 2: He said he was wrong, that he. 367 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 3: Did do Pope Francis asked for forgiveness. 368 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 5: The manifesta here I feel bound or express my pain 369 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 5: and shame, the shame that I feel at the irreparable 370 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 5: damage caused to children by some ministers of the church. 371 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 3: Could he have done more? Could he have been more public? Yes? 372 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: I think that this kind of the culture of cover up, 373 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 2: this is a very Italian thing. It's also I think, 374 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 2: a very Latino thing, right, and I think that we 375 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 2: inherited that a lot from Europe, and it's still very 376 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: much in vogue in places like Italy that you have 377 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 2: to give al martiempo buenagada all the time, and you 378 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,119 Speaker 2: don't air your family's dirty laundry out in the world 379 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 2: because it's going to scandalize people, when in fact, what 380 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 2: really scandalizes people is that you wouldn't report this person 381 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,560 Speaker 2: immediately and kick them out, Right, that's the scandal, and 382 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 2: that's the truth. Scandal is produced by people who are 383 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 2: afraid of the wrong thing. They're afraid of people finding 384 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 2: out about evil, and in the process of doing that, 385 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 2: they end up collaborating with evil. And I think that 386 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 2: that too often was the sin of the church. Francis 387 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 2: tried with mixed results. So he's dealing with this pool 388 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: of people that is so tainted and trying to kind 389 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 2: of navigate being a moral voice again. And that's where 390 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 2: those small acts of solidarity. I really do think that 391 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 2: those are the only things that you can do in 392 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 2: a situation like he's in, say you're sorry. 393 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 3: And this is something I think that we have to 394 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 3: have a broader cultural conversation about. 395 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 2: Is it enough to say I'm sorry that this happened, 396 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: or does repentance involve some sort of reparations? 397 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 4: Right? 398 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 3: And that part is something the church is still struggling with. 399 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: We know that starting May seventh, the conclave will begin 400 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: and when we can expect the next election of the 401 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: pope to happen. So, Natalie, if you can give us 402 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: like a super quick guide of how this process works 403 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,919 Speaker 1: for those of us who didn't just watch conclave. 404 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 3: Good. Yes, conclave is actually pretty it's pretty close. So 405 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 3: that was good. 406 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: Now what happens is, so the pope is buried and 407 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: now they're having these general congregations where they're meeting. They've 408 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 2: elected a couple of cardinals to give them like meditations 409 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: on where the church is and where the church is going, 410 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 2: sort of like to set the tone for what it 411 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 2: is that they want to look for. And then the 412 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: cardinals are allowed to make speeches, so they're not campaign 413 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 2: speeches because they're not allowed to campaign, but they bought 414 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: a lot of people say that Burgolio's speech during the 415 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 2: congregation really catapulted him into the contenders. 416 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 4: And it seems like one of the hints of maybe 417 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 4: who the successor could be is the fact that eighty 418 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 4: percent of the cardinals currently who are going to be 419 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 4: voting in the conclave were appointed by Francis himself. So 420 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 4: it'll be very interesting to see whether that has an 421 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 4: influence on who actually ends up being his successor you. 422 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 3: Don't have a guess not that yet. 423 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I have people who I wish it would be, 424 00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 2: but I'm not saying because I want to let the 425 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 2: whole spirit take care, because I'm cell just latina enough 426 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: to not want to jinx it by saying it out loud. 427 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 1: Okay, So I guess the last question for you both, 428 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: and I'll start with you Antonia. What do you think 429 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: is Pope Francis's biggest legacy and what would you like 430 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: to see in a new pope. 431 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 4: I definitely think that Pope Francis's message about inclusivity and 432 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:30,880 Speaker 4: community is to me, the most moving part of his message. 433 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 4: I think it's something that we are very much losing 434 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 4: in everyday life. There's far fewer third spaces where people 435 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 4: can create a sense of their life outside of their work, 436 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 4: outside of capitalism. And I'm not religious, but like that 437 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 4: aspect of religious life. I would love to see it 438 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 4: grow and it would be really cool to see if 439 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,680 Speaker 4: the future iteration of the church is one that can 440 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 4: promote that on a global scale. 441 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,680 Speaker 3: I think Antonia really nailed that. 442 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 2: The building of community at a time when we're desperately 443 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 2: seeking community, and that he was very much a pope 444 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,720 Speaker 2: of presence and a pope of solidarity, so that's great. 445 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: I think his legacy is one of profound humility. 446 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 4: Right. 447 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 2: He was constantly reminding us that he was a sinner 448 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 2: and that the Church is fill of sinners, and that 449 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,159 Speaker 2: the Church of Saints doesn't exist, so forget it. And 450 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 2: I think his even bigger legacy is appointing women to 451 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,359 Speaker 2: really important Vatican posts. So my biggest hope is that 452 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 2: somebody in the first ballot will write a woman's name down. 453 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: That'd be wild plot to. 454 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 6: Us like it so far. 455 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: I would love that. And that's that's where if we're 456 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: giving Papa Francisco grades great job for appointing all these 457 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: women to those positions. Better you don't get an a 458 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 1: Thank you both so much for this conversation. It was 459 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: really wonderful to hear from both of you. 460 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 3: This was awesome. 461 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 2: Your story about John Paul the second blessing the Spice 462 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 2: Girls through the phone is the most Mexican American Catholicism 463 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 2: recopy I've ever heard of my life. 464 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: Thank you so much everyone for this very important moment 465 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: of history. 466 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 6: Thank you. 467 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: That was Natalia IMPERATORI Lee and Antonio Serejido. That's it 468 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: for today. I'm Fernande Chavari in for our host Marino Josa. 469 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Monica Moreles Garcia and edited 470 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: by Andrello Pescruzado. It was mixed by Lea shaw Dameran 471 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,959 Speaker 1: special thanks this week to lay S Studios. The Latino 472 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: USA team also includes Froxana Guire, Julia Cruso, Felicia Dominguez, 473 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: Jessica Elis, Victoria Strada, Dominique Estrosa, Renaldo Lenos Junior, Stephanie 474 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 1: La Bo, Luis Luna, Marta Martinez, j j Caruben, Tasha Sandoval, 475 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: Nor Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Maria Jojosa, Penile Ramirez, Marlon 476 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: Bishop and Maria Garcia are our co executive producers. Join 477 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: us again next time, and in the meantime you can 478 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: find us on social media. 479 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 5: Lios Latino USA is made possible in part by Skyline Foundation. 480 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 7: The Annie E. 481 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,439 Speaker 5: Casey Foundation creates a brighter future for the nation's children 482 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 5: by strengthening families, building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities, 483 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,000 Speaker 5: and funding for Latino USA's Coverage of a culture of 484 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,680 Speaker 5: health is made possible, in part by a grant from 485 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,440 Speaker 5: the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.