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Speaker 1: Welcome to crime around up. I'm Cheryl McCollum, and y'all

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Speaker 1: already know the man, the mynth, the legend is here,

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Speaker 1: and y'all, this is gonna be a good Thursday night.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about sex.

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Speaker 2: Baby, all right, it's a rainy night in Georgia. This

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Speaker 2: is gonna be a hot one. We're gonna steam it up.

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Speaker 1: One quote, the jail was a brothel. Now, if that

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Speaker 1: don't set the stage.

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Speaker 2: I hope everybody knows exactly what Cherl's talking about, because

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Speaker 2: you know, we're gonna we're gonna delve into the depths

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Speaker 2: of Kentucky, uh and talk about the outrageous reports from

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Speaker 2: on the ground and this stuff circulating widely about there.

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Speaker 1: Are people coming forward and it's one thing if you

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Speaker 1: hear there might have been a little sex for favors,

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Speaker 1: like you pull over your ex girlfriend for speeding and

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Speaker 1: y'all work out a deal right there on the side

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Speaker 1: of the road, and everybody goes on about their business.

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Speaker 1: People have heard of that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, rumors us.

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Speaker 1: What they're talking about is, can you imagine if Otis

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Speaker 1: and Mayberry was checking himself out to go overnight to

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Speaker 1: sleep with at b.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely nuts what happened or what's being talked

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Speaker 2: about with this district Court judge Kevin Mullins, who just

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Speaker 2: remind everybody got shot to death back in September on

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Speaker 2: camera with an immediate turn in, you know, very interesting

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Speaker 2: dynamic there by one of his good buddies, Sheriff Sean

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Speaker 2: Mickey Stein's and Micky Stein's and the judge went back

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Speaker 2: years and Micky Stein's had just testified in a deposition,

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Speaker 2: and there are some lawsuits going around, and so there

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Speaker 2: were a bunch of whispers when the murder had and

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Speaker 2: everybody started getting involved about this complicated story. I actually

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Speaker 2: talked about it with Vinny last night about how the

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Speaker 2: daughter of the sheriff wasn't answering one phone call, but

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Speaker 2: then when called from the judge's phone or her number

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Speaker 2: was in the judge's phone. And the problem is that

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Speaker 2: there's video but no audio, and obviously the only surviving

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Speaker 2: audio source is highly biased, being that he's going to

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Speaker 2: be up on trial, quite possibly in a death penalty posture.

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Speaker 2: This is the murder of a public official that's basically

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Speaker 2: at the top of the how you get the death

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Speaker 2: penalty equation and really what's happening now, are people in

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Speaker 2: the community, now that the shock has worn off, coming

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Speaker 2: out and actually talking out in the open with big

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Speaker 2: news groups about literally sex parties. And these are sex

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Speaker 2: parties with everybody in county. And you know, there are

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Speaker 2: some really hilarious quotes about everybody in the county being

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Speaker 2: swingers and people literally walking into the judges chambers. As

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Speaker 2: you know, officials and inmates are in flagrante delicto. That's

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Speaker 2: your legal term of the day, sharel it's the polite

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Speaker 2: way of saying knocking boots, horizontal mambo, whatever you want

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Speaker 2: to call it. They were fornicating in chambers and apparently

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Speaker 2: this was just known.

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Speaker 1: Oh it was an open secret. It had to be

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Speaker 1: because let me tell you something. They had cabins, they

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Speaker 1: had apartments. It wasn't just the chambers. They were paying

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Speaker 1: rent and mortgages in order to keep these parties going.

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Speaker 1: They some people have come out and said there were

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Speaker 1: sex swings, there were mirrored ceilings, there was cocaine. This

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Speaker 1: wasn't a little bitty after school party. This was a

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Speaker 1: full own dagum near diddy party.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, it took the words out of my mouth.

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Speaker 2: This is the Kentucky version of Diddy. Uh. Because and

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Speaker 2: this some Ofasell casts are coming lottery from law enforcement member,

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Speaker 2: former employees at the jail, from the Sheriff's department, saying yeah,

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Speaker 2: I know about it. How oh I was invited, but

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Speaker 2: I don't get down like that. It makes me think

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Speaker 2: about all these Hollywood jokesters. And because you know that

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Speaker 2: the gossip, the innuendo had to have been overpowering, especially

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Speaker 2: in one of these small communities where they think they've

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Speaker 2: got a secret. You know that there were all kinds

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Speaker 2: of secret references. This is something that they enjoyed having

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Speaker 2: out in public as a public secret. Uh. And it

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Speaker 2: just you hear about it, you read about it, You

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Speaker 2: probably dream about it when you're a little teenager. And

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Speaker 2: now look we're seeing it. And without a doubt, Nicky

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Speaker 2: Steins is going to get put on trial for murder.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you and I have both been around

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Speaker 1: long enough we know several judges that will give consideration

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Speaker 1: and favors to women that are attractive.

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Speaker 2: There's some misogyny that is home cooked into the system. Unfortunately. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it just is what it is.

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Speaker 1: And folks using their power in the system to say, hey,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to play ball. You could get ninety

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Speaker 1: days instead of thirty, and we could get cps to

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Speaker 1: take your kids. Who are they going to believe me

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Speaker 1: or a drug.

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Speaker 2: Addict, and believe it or not. It's way more common

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Speaker 2: than I think people think, because unfortunately, the cases are

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Speaker 2: almost never prosecuted, and it may not even be a

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Speaker 2: violation of that officer's sworn duty because you run into

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Speaker 2: the issue of how do you tell sheriffs officers not

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Speaker 2: to quote unquote date and it has some very sticky

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Speaker 2: hr considerations, and it has been upheld multiple times that

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Speaker 2: activities that occur in police cars is not okay, but

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Speaker 2: it's certainly not something that's going to necessarily get you

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Speaker 2: in trouble. Now, the bigger problem is that there's just

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Speaker 2: cameras everywhere, and.

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Speaker 1: You know, we're not making light of anything. I want

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Speaker 1: people to understand. Children are getting hurt here. There are

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Speaker 1: other spouses that are going to be embarrassed and hurt here.

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Speaker 1: You've got a religious community, You've got you know, parents,

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Speaker 1: You've got a lot of people that are going to

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Speaker 1: be hurt over all of these allegations. But you've also

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Speaker 1: had real estate agents possibly and law enforcement at every level,

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Speaker 1: and the judicial system at every level that's involved in

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Speaker 1: something where somebody says the whole town is involved. The

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Speaker 1: whole town.

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Speaker 2: And when you're talking about these small towns that and

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Speaker 2: people that aren't familiar with them. You know what church

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Speaker 2: everybody goes to if you run for office? The church

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Speaker 2: you go to matters like you you go to the Methodists,

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Speaker 2: you go to the which one? Which preacher is going

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Speaker 2: to stand there in your in your campaign at you

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Speaker 2: know which community groups? Are you a Kawana? Are you

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Speaker 2: an elk are you these aren't people that are hermits.

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Speaker 2: If you want to win and keep getting elected in

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Speaker 2: small town America, you're out there in the community, walking

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Speaker 2: in the parade, sponsoring the scouts, doing the school appearances,

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Speaker 2: letting the kids turn the lights on. And now you've

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Speaker 2: got it that these people uh And remember, in theory,

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Speaker 2: the judicial law enforcement branches are separate. The just shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be having any kind of relations with with sheriffs like this,

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Speaker 2: but you know, you've got it happening in such a

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Speaker 2: naked and express way from all these reports, it really

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Speaker 2: makes you a question what's real and what's just you know,

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Speaker 2: messaging an image and are people really watching and do

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Speaker 2: people really care?

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Speaker 1: Because do you think the US Attorney's going to get involved?

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Speaker 2: I think they have to, because I think that any

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Speaker 2: investigation is going to be tainted in so many levels,

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Speaker 2: because you know they're going to send it to the

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Speaker 2: Kentucky version of the Kentucky GBI or whatever their high

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Speaker 2: executive level of investigations are. But those officers very often

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Speaker 2: are sourced from these small communities, getting ethically clean and

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Speaker 2: away from stuff. This is a judge. Judges go to

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Speaker 2: judges conferences. I was just talking with a prominent colleague

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Speaker 2: last night who is representing the spouse of a judge

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Speaker 2: and had just been recused or their judge. They were

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Speaker 2: set for trial in two weeks and the judge that

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Speaker 2: was supposed to try this very contentious family law case

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Speaker 2: just got back from the judicial conference that all the

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Speaker 2: judges go to in Georgia came back promptly announced to

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Speaker 2: all litigans he had to recuse because he'd served on

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Speaker 2: a committee with the judge that is the defendant respondent

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Speaker 2: in the family law action. Because you've got to get

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Speaker 2: away ethically. I don't know if that's possible in a

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Speaker 2: state like Kentucky. So they may need that US Attorney's

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Speaker 2: Office investigation, FBI investigation, but you know, their plates kind

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Speaker 2: of full over there as well.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's jump to the next one. Coburger.

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Speaker 1: He has filed some complaints of sexual harassment. Now, y'all,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to state something because it is factual,

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Speaker 1: not because any of this is for anybody's enjoyment. It's

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Speaker 1: not karma, but he has made in my opinion, being

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Speaker 1: somebody that has been with the Department of Corrections, been

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Speaker 1: in Rice Street as a deputy, this is equivalent to

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Speaker 1: telling the teacher it is not gonna be met with

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Speaker 1: remorse and regret to it is gonna be met with

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Speaker 1: They ramped up and constant just bullying.

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Speaker 2: And we all knew you called it to the tea

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Speaker 2: about how challenging his entry into long term housing was

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Speaker 2: going to be. And people, you gotta understand, the folks

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Speaker 2: sitting around in prison, they're bored. They notice any change.

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Speaker 2: If you start putting fish in and out of the school,

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Speaker 2: they all know immediately. They've probably been talking about it

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Speaker 2: for months. They've been watching the case because you know,

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Speaker 2: states only have so many maximum security prisons. If you

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Speaker 2: if you're on death row in Georgia or super met man,

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Speaker 2: I generally can tell you what your address is here

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Speaker 2: in Georgia. There ain't very many place as they put them,

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Speaker 2: and so they were waiting for him. They know that

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Speaker 2: he has some funding which commissary accounts and out of

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Speaker 2: With these lifers and these man it's it's awful. The extortion,

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Speaker 2: it's awful. The threats on the outside. It there are

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Speaker 2: fears that you do not realize until you have spent

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Speaker 2: time exposed to the depravity of long term human hopeless storage,

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Speaker 2: because there is no consideration of the outside and your

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Speaker 2: family and your family's family, and your work and your

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Speaker 2: morals and ethics, because those morals and ethics got suspended

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Speaker 2: when you crossed over that line and they hit. I'll

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Speaker 2: give it to mister k I give them props for

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Speaker 2: using the grievance system as it was designed to work.

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Speaker 1: Well. You know in his past life, whoever writes better

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Speaker 1: usually wins, and I'm sure he fired off some beautifully

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Speaker 1: written PhD level complaints. The issue is going to be,

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Speaker 1: where are you going if you think B block and

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Speaker 1: D block is any different than J block. Again, sir,

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Speaker 1: you are not prepared.

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Speaker 2: Now his Gen Pop experience is going to be a

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Speaker 2: daily and constant threat for at least some period of

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Speaker 2: time because the other inmates are going to shake him

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Speaker 2: out and figure out what he's made of. And he

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Speaker 2: has also suffered from being a limited exposure a solitary

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Speaker 2: confinement in the pre trial process. He wasn't out there

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Speaker 2: in Gen Pop in a county jail. You know, they

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Speaker 2: had him on ad SEG lockdown. They're going to try

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Speaker 2: to acclimate him in the loosest security possible at that facility,

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Speaker 2: because when you get into the maximum security facilities, it's

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Speaker 2: all about keeping people from getting killed. That that's really

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Speaker 2: the prime directive is, Hey, we need to keep these

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Speaker 2: individuals tamped down and separated to the degree that the

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Speaker 2: killing and beatings are kept to a minimum, because we

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Speaker 2: all know they're going to happen. We know the statistics

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Speaker 2: about mental health, and then we know the people who

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Speaker 2: aren't mentally mentally ill and just terrible evil people that

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Speaker 2: did awful, violent things and are maladjusted to this is

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Speaker 2: where we put them. And mister Coberger I believe will

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Speaker 2: end up in some sort of segregated lockdown solitary in

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Speaker 2: the near future for extended periods of time.

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Speaker 1: I agree, they're not going to have a choice if

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Speaker 1: they're going to try to, you know, keep him safe

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Speaker 1: and keep everybody else from just rioting to get to him.

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Speaker 1: Because he is odd, he is unusual. He could not,

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Speaker 1: you know, get with the group in high school. He

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Speaker 1: could not manage to get himself in with a crowd.

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Speaker 1: In college.

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Speaker 2: He walks into your office, you know what you're up with?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 2: I hate to say it, but you know, first impressions

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Speaker 2: do count. I imagine some of that had to do

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Speaker 2: with his decision to take a plea because you see

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Speaker 2: the just demeanor and appearance and outward projection of certain people.

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Speaker 2: It's tough, and I'm not going to say it's fair.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I know you can do things to make

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Speaker 2: yourself appear and work on your person skills and all that.

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Speaker 2: Some people didn't, and he's going to continue to struggle.

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Speaker 2: I got a bad feeling about him long term, because

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Speaker 2: I think he thinks he's smart enough to still get

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Speaker 2: out of it, get away when something happens.

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Speaker 1: Yep, I don't have a good feeling either. But listen,

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Speaker 1: before we head out into this storm that's approaching here,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's just oh, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. But

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Speaker 1: I got to tell you something, friend of friend, y'all.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if y'all know this or not, but

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Speaker 1: I have been involved with a case that's pretty high

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Speaker 1: profile in Fulton County, and not once, but twice now

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Speaker 1: Joshua has said, Nah, let's not go there, let's hold off.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to tell y'all, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: some folks in this world that they would use this

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Speaker 1: opportunity and hey, let's get some clicks and let's make

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Speaker 1: this a little outrageous and we can use this for

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Speaker 1: our own gain. But as my friend, he's like, girl,

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Speaker 1: don't do it.

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Speaker 2: Nope, you gotta respect. And it's not just my care

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Speaker 2: and friendship and love for you as a person. It's

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Speaker 2: the respect that I know you have for the system

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Speaker 2: and that you know I have for the system, and

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Speaker 2: you've got to have fidelity to the system. And the

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Speaker 2: system is and it's a case that I have commented on.

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Speaker 2: I know every single person involved except for one of

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Speaker 2: the lawyers, and that's because he just graduated from my

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Speaker 2: alma mater three years ago and one of my dear

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Speaker 2: friends was one of his instructors and it is a

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Speaker 2: great judge. It is a fascinating case. But you've got

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Speaker 2: to respect the process. And that's frustrating when that means

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Speaker 2: sit down, shut up, because I tell you, Mac, if

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Speaker 2: you want to get some clicks, boy, people would light

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Speaker 2: up talking about that one, especially giving your really unique

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Speaker 2: perspective that comes from only being you and your genuine

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Speaker 2: interest in these kinds of cases.

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Speaker 1: Well, when we can talk, we will, But yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Just want to people know we're not ignoring it.

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Speaker 1: We're not ignoring you. I have seen all the messages.

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Speaker 1: I've read most of them. I read all of them

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Speaker 1: because some of them, even the way they started, I

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Speaker 1: was like, not today, you know, I'll read that later.

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Speaker 1: But we will talk about it when we can and

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Speaker 1: it'll be great, but it's not appropriate right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it'll be great because I'm excited because when you see,

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Speaker 2: life is all about perspective, because you only view things

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Speaker 2: from your perspective, and one of the important parts of

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Speaker 2: wisdom and understanding is being able to reverse roles and

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Speaker 2: look at things from other perspectives. It's one of the

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Speaker 2: things whereas can't talk about because it's such a powerful tool. Hey,

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Speaker 2: get in the shoes of my person. Getting to talk

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Speaker 2: with Cheryl about this case is going to be great

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Speaker 2: because this is one of the most unique perspectives I've

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Speaker 2: ever thought of within a prosecution and defense, and that

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Speaker 2: perspective is absolutely unique, and I'm really looking forward to

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Speaker 2: academically as well as personally to hearing about Like I

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Speaker 2: just think it's gonna be fascinating.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, let's go enjoy that storm and toast

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Speaker 1: that lightning.

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Speaker 2: Y'all have a great week. I wish everybody the absolute

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Speaker 2: best smile out there. Remember to punch up. I've got

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Speaker 2: to punch down. Punch up. That's how you're gonna win

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Speaker 2: in this life. And thank y'all so much for tuning

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Speaker 2: in this week.

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Speaker 1: We'll see y'all next week.