1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season to fifty two, 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Episode two of Days Like Guys, a production of My 3 00:00:07,560 --> 00:00:09,800 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. This is a podcast where we take a 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: deep dive into America's shared consciousness. It's Tuesday, August two, 5 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: which of course means it's you know, getting getting shout 6 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: out to my dad. It's his birthday day. Yeah, so 7 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: that's his birthday day, Big Todd, shout out to you. 8 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: And also National beach Day National posted Marshall birthday. Beach 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: Day coming on coming late in the summer, because maybe, 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: like Labor Day is like you're sort of saying like, 11 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: here's your last kind of yeah, your last chance, assholes, 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,919 Speaker 1: get it in. I think that's the voice that my 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: beach Day speaks in. It's just very it's like a bully. 14 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: It's kind of like an exhausted bully, or like a 15 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: mean gym teacher. Right, all right, gip shit enough jackass 16 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: in a round, Get out there to the beach. Get 17 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: out there. I know you're gonna be on the beach 18 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 1: chasing girls. All right. Anyways, my name's Jack O'Brien a, 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: k ya Jack Horseman. I think that's gonna be a 20 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: regular one. Let's courtesy of Miles Gray and I'm thrilled 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 1: to be joined by my co host, Mr Miles Gray. 22 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: You know, Miles Gray just still feeling that Valley dried 23 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: the Lord of lankershim to day o'noho his battle in 24 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 1: the building. Spre month artist, your boy Kasamo, So thank 25 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: you for having me, Well mine was. We're thrilled to 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: be joined by a designer, activist curator CEO of Epic 27 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: det gave, the author of the new book Radical Curiosity, 28 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 1: questioning commonly held believes to imagine flourishing futures. It seth 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: golden bird. What's up that much? Good to be here? 30 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me, Yeah, thanks for doing it absolutely? 31 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 1: Where you coming to us from out there the world? 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: I am in New York City today? Okay, all right? 33 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: How's the wind good? All right? Oh yeah, on Friday? 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: Are some of our people who would work in New 35 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: York Like, it's a storm right now, right right, it's 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: a storm, right now, It's a storm weather report, like 37 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 1: to tune into the weather storm right now. Have them 38 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: tell me it's a storm right now. Bob. If you're 39 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: and you tell tell us what is Epic Decade. What 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: you guys are like kind of a lot of things, right, 41 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 1: We are a lot of things. Epic Decade is a 42 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: design studio. We are a merry band of biologists and 43 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:49,239 Speaker 1: anthropologists and graphic designers and strategic thinkers who take on big, 44 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: complex challenges. Nice. How did that all come together? I've 45 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: I've read a few interviews with you and in a 46 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 1: little bit of your book, and I know you talk 47 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: about the salons of your uh and is that sort 48 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: of like that was a big inspiration or you Also, 49 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 1: it seems to me just with how you look at 50 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: the world, you think everything is multifaceted. Henceforth, it's always 51 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: good to have a diverse, paliative opinions to sort of 52 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: take something on. Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. I mean I I 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: began as a as an artist, as a painter first 54 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: and foremost I was I went to Rhode Island School designed, 55 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: I went to art school to be an oil painter, 56 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: and kind of recently wandered into the field of design. 57 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: But I think whether you're an artist or a designer, 58 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: for me, it's all about asking questions. So you know, 59 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 1: this book really for me was a way to make 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: sense of a very interdisciplinary practice but kind of simplify 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: it down to say, no matter what kind of craft, 62 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: what kind of format, what kind of industry work we're 63 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: we're working in, we are asking the thorniest, craziest, most 64 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: essential questions of our time. All right, well, we're gonna 65 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: get to some of those craziest essential questions. First, we're 66 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: gonna tell our listeners a couple of things we're talking about. 67 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: I mean, mainly we're gonna we're gonna talk about your book, 68 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: just the the subject of imagination and curiosity, and the 69 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: thing we talked about a lot on this show being 70 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: that we we lack the imagination for something different, a 71 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: different version of how we come together. It's either what 72 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: we've been given in this like sort of status quo 73 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: of the Western world with like a market that kind 74 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: of dictates everything, or it's a dystopia like it's Mad 75 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: Max that and there's like not not much else and 76 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,479 Speaker 1: that's it. Those are the two versions that that we have. 77 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: So we want to talk to you about why that is, 78 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: what you think some solutions are for that, and just 79 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: generally have a far ranging conversation. If we have time, 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: we might even get to right parts Hunter Biden movie, 81 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: which isn't no way to that, but it is. Yeah, 82 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: I guess it is. It's art. It's great art, and 83 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: we're excited for it. So we're gonna maybe talk about that. 84 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: But before we get to any of its seth we 85 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: do like to ask our guests, what is something from 86 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 1: your search history that's revealing about who you are or 87 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: where you are as a person. Well, yeah, I've been 88 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: thinking a lot about food recently, and how I don't 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: know about you guys, but I don't I don't know 90 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: what to do. When I get into the grocery store. 91 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: It's like there's like a hundred thousand options and I 92 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: gotta get in, I gotta get out. It's like, you know, 93 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: I'm like weaving through like it's a football match. But 94 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about nutrition for my own health, and 95 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: I googled how many nutritionists are in the United States? Wow? 96 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: How how many? How many people are in the business 97 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: of nutrition that that is their expertise. They formally register 98 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: with the government as you know, labors six I identify 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: as the nustritions sixty six thousand. That's a lot that 100 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: a lot of a little I'm trying to wrap my 101 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: head around, like how comparatively it was going to it's 102 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: scary right that way. I think about it like this, 103 00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: there's millions and millions of people growing food, but just 104 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: sixty thousand helping us understand what to put with the 105 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: right right right, Yeah, three million Americans, sixty six thousand 106 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: people are actually knowing how to consume food. Good ratios, 107 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: good ratios. I like those odds. For our health care system, 108 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: for sure, I feel like the there's not really a 109 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:56,159 Speaker 1: great authority, right, Like even the nutritional information that we 110 00:06:56,240 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 1: get is pretty contradictory, and studies come out that debunk 111 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: other studies. But I feel like just generally, when I 112 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: see a study that is like dark chocolate and red 113 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: wine are the keys to long life, which are the 114 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: the two studies that seem to come up every month 115 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: since I was born in the eighties, like that that, 116 00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems very confusing and like there's 117 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: no real center of gravity when it comes to like 118 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: our nutritional information. I attribute that largely to the fact that, 119 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: like the government doesn't fund any sort of central nutritional thing, 120 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: and so it's all just like different people trying to 121 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: find different ways to make money, and like massive corporations 122 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: lobbying and stuff like that. But what do you what 123 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: are your thoughts on like sort of the organization, let 124 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: let alone the you know, number, the sheer mass of 125 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: nutritionist in the country, Like what how do you feel 126 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: about like how we get our information on nutrition? Well, 127 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: I think that we know very little about food, a 128 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: surprising and scary amount of information. And it's not even 129 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: about information, And I think it's food as a whole 130 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: culture and set of traditions and lifestyles. And you know, 131 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: I have no real literacy about my experience of food. 132 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: Do you think about it? Right? You go to when 133 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: you go to school. We have literacy for reading, we 134 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: have literacy for mathematics, we have literacy. We have a 135 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: language for so many parts of our lives. But hundreds 136 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 1: of millions of people around the world don't have a language, 137 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: a kind of health literacy for their experience of food. 138 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: Convenience and price have become the predominant variables and it's 139 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: really it's really killing us, right, yeah, yeah, I can remember. 140 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: It is like the most literacy have is like eat 141 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: eat vegetables. At least I think that's like where my 142 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: like nutrition literacy sort of bottoms out where it's like, well, 143 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: I know that I mean like you gotta balance it. 144 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: Aside from that, then you read constantly stuff where it's like, man, 145 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: you have one serving of dairy that like ups your 146 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: chances of these kinds of cancers, Like and you're like, what, 147 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: I but I had vegetables bones strong, Come on? Yeah, 148 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: well I think you know, uh, it really relates to 149 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,600 Speaker 1: some of the core ideas the book, right, And I 150 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:46,079 Speaker 1: love that you open with imagination. I mean we're raised 151 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: inside of a variety of what I call legacy narratives. 152 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: And those legacy narratives about food or about home, or 153 00:09:56,400 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: about family or about money. These ideas are I call 154 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: them legacies because they're they're inherited, you know, we're born 155 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: into them. The decisions about these things happened long before 156 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: we showed up, and they're indoctrinate, they're institutionalized. They're rooted 157 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: into many facets of our lives, and we don't even 158 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: ask questions about them, right right, Yeah, I feel like 159 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: nutrition has gone through, Like in my lifetime, it was 160 00:10:27,920 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: like the calories and fat content and all all these 161 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: sort of variables that we were meant to pay attention to, 162 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: and like during that time, we have seen like the 163 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: how healthy people eat just like go in the in 164 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: the absolute shitter, like just in terms of yeah, I 165 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: mean like just you know, the obesity epidemic, people just generally, 166 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 1: I think, feel much worse than I think. You know. 167 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: Michael Pollen has written about the idea of like, you know, 168 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,480 Speaker 1: breaking foods down into these like component parts, where it's 169 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: like there are these four numbers that you need to 170 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: know about each of your foods and how foreign that 171 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: is from long term, you know, deep historical information that 172 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: people had about food. That that was just I think 173 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: somebody raised erased by our understanding of culture. But yeah, 174 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:33,839 Speaker 1: that evolution is wild too, because it's like food as 175 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: nutrition verse food as coping mechanism, which you know, a 176 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: lot of the times I'll make food decisions to be 177 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: like you know what, fuck my health for this deal, 178 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: Like I want to eat this, And it's not just 179 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: like considering what, like on a continuum, how much of 180 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: this have I been eating? Is that good? Do I 181 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: need to interrupt that? But a lot of the time 182 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: it's sort of dictated by like what I'm feeling in 183 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: the moment rather than what you're talking about. Is even 184 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: like a literacy around with my body actually needs, which 185 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: occasionally it does, and like I go into a full 186 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: on craving for like vegetables and things because I think 187 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: my body thing a asshole. Enough of the taco bell, 188 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: fuck my health being often the entire thesis statement of 189 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: a meal from like I'm gonna do some damage. Here's nuts. 190 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,800 Speaker 1: What is something you think is overrated? Set history? History? 191 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: All right? Well we just boring, You're like snooze fest. Well, 192 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: I say, I say it to be a little provocative. 193 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 1: I think I think we're imprisoned by much of our history. 194 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: I think that history can be beautiful, history can be critical, 195 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: but at times I think it holds us back. And 196 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,760 Speaker 1: I think we need to up the antie on the 197 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: courage to unchain ourselves from that history and author what 198 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: the future might look like. Right, So, if history is overrated, 199 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: future is underrated. Mhm. I mean as a designer, I'm 200 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: a kind of futurist. My job is to help organizations 201 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: invent the future. And the number one thing that holds 202 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: people back is a comfort with a history that is recognizable, 203 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: right yeah, And and just like default narratives, right like that? 204 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: Like that that's something that I feel like I came 205 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: out of my education feeling like history was pretty settled 206 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: and that was sort of toxic to my my ability 207 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: to feel like curiosity about the world was a lot 208 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: of what I learned in history, which was like dates 209 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: and figures and like this thing happened and that's indisputable 210 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: and that's that, and that's the tidy explanation for all 211 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: of this. What's said to you, like, what's sort of 212 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: like the most insidious way that our sort of attachment 213 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: to history sort of like undermines like our well being, 214 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: our ability to improve life. Yeah, I mean, I think 215 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: even even your gesture there of you know that happened. 216 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: I mean, most of how we retell history is not objective, right, 217 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: So it's it's not as clean as this is what happened. 218 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: Those who win get to tell the story, right, right. 219 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 1: So there's a fascinating dynamic about history where it's hard 220 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: to not imagine that much of the narratives we embody 221 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 1: as we learn from history has an ideological bent or 222 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 1: has a particular bias or a point of view, whether 223 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: that's trill, whether that's race, whether that's who who and 224 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: what perspective told the story. But I think when you 225 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: ask what holds us back? It's as though whoever won 226 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: told the story, and telling the story is a form 227 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: of power, and so there's a power that holds over 228 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,080 Speaker 1: us about the particular models that we learn and live 229 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 1: by that get passed on as a tradition, right. I mean, 230 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: I tell a joke sometimes I saw a great meme says, 231 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: you know, history is peer pressure from dead people, right, 232 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: And I think part of what we're going through right 233 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: now is information and knowledge is flat, and there's never 234 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: been a shorter distance between information and the power to 235 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: invent an alternative. And so for me, I love the 236 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: idea that we can author new histories in real time 237 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,600 Speaker 1: and that what we're seeing in some ways a great 238 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: deal of the kind of friction and kind of birthing 239 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: pains that I believe our culture is going through right 240 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: now is as an expression of a legacy narrative that 241 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 1: history kind of dissolving and new challenger narratives, new ways 242 00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 1: of seeing and inhabiting the world are being born. And 243 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: that's like stretch marks to society. Right, Like when you 244 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: see a protest, I mean, when you see an event, 245 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: when you see Black Lives Matter, that's not just a 246 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: protest of that. Cities encounter that is a symbol of 247 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: an old narrative and a new narrative in collision. Right, 248 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: So the past and the future are constantly kind of 249 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: pulling and tugging up against one another. And it'd be 250 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: interesting if we understood what's happening in contemporary life in 251 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: that way, so we could detangle ourselves from narratives that 252 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: frankly aren't working for us anymore. Mm hmmm, like functionally, 253 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: Like I mean, like, what's something specifically right, like if 254 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: you're taking something like I feel like you talk about 255 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: these legacy narratives. I think one that's like really eroding 256 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: is this idea that like, after World War Two, the 257 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: United States was one of the most fantastic places on 258 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: earth to be, you know, and it's like, look at 259 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: everything they had. But then most people like, it wasn't 260 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,159 Speaker 1: like that from my family back then, it wasn't like 261 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: this for this. And then we also get these sort 262 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: of like you're saying, this friction of people that saying like, well, 263 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: if it's so bad, you should leave. Are these people 264 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,400 Speaker 1: not wanting to let go of this idea that it 265 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,440 Speaker 1: was so clean cut that this was prosperity experienced by 266 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: all then something just went wrong. You know, I'm curious, 267 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:56,159 Speaker 1: like and looking at things like that. How how is it? 268 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 1: You know, if I guess to keep it to like 269 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,400 Speaker 1: American popular American societ eighty or cultural history, Like, what's 270 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,000 Speaker 1: the thing that you feel Americans should very quickly let 271 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: go of? Well, I think I think it's for me 272 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: the idea of narratives, not so much that it's not 273 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,200 Speaker 1: like the American dream, although that is of course a narrative, 274 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: a story we tell ourselves. It's kind of like even 275 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: just the basic idea of of you know, Maslov's hierarchy 276 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: of needs. Like we're very occupied at epic decade with 277 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: how we will live, learn, work, play, and sustain ourselves, 278 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: like the five big questions of human existence. Right, So 279 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: if you took health, live, right, if you took learn education? 280 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: I mean an example often give is if you ask 281 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: anybody in America is cater twelve public education working for 282 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,359 Speaker 1: every child and is the most beautiful, most innovative, most 283 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: glorious experience on the planet, It's say no. But at 284 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 1: the same time, we throw you in prison if you 285 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: don't go. Welcome to truancy. So we have these kind 286 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 1: of ideologies that are kind of in conflict these paradox 287 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: is that we've adopted and kind of just put on autopilot, 288 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: Like the hospital is a place to get healthy. Actually 289 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 1: maybe maybe not right. Food is food. All food is good. 290 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: It will give you energy. Maybe maybe not right. We're 291 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: just talking. I think you know. It's and it's not 292 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: that it's like yes or no, or like we need 293 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 1: to let go of something. It's like, you know, the 294 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: idea of radical curiosity is simply too ask questions about 295 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,480 Speaker 1: things that we just assumed are on autopilot. Yeah, and 296 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:53,440 Speaker 1: it's more for me. What I would advocate for is 297 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: things that seemed unbreakable are kind of dissolving around us, 298 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: and h lifetime banks that were untouchable dissolved in front 299 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 1: of our eyes to the financial crisis right in my lifetime. 300 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: Questions you couldn't ask out loud. Are there fifty seven genders? 301 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: Holy shit? My grandparents grew up it was unconceivable that 302 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: there was anything other than a male or female. These 303 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: aren't just like American ideas or even Western ideas. Our 304 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,000 Speaker 1: whole world is revisiting what it means to be human 305 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: right now, so core core things like gender, how long 306 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: we live? You know it should should all society be capitalistic. 307 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:52,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to presidents running on universal basic income platforms where 308 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,479 Speaker 1: we give away money for free. These are there's small, 309 00:20:55,640 --> 00:21:01,159 Speaker 1: little what I call up ending indicators, but they're not small. 310 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: We're in the process of rebooting the operating system of 311 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,679 Speaker 1: the human condition right now. It's a fascinating time to 312 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: be alive, if you know what questions to ask. Right, 313 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 1: All right, let's let's take a quick break. We'll come 314 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: back and we'll kind of keep this conversation going. Be 315 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: right back and we're back, and Seth, you were kind 316 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: of talking about your over in it being history and 317 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: you know, future as an underrated Like how as a futurist, 318 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: how do you think about the future? And like you 319 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: know that it is interesting to think that, like we 320 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: have an entire class in major almost every university that 321 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 1: is history, but like nothing about the nothing really about 322 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,080 Speaker 1: the future. I guess science would be the realm of 323 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: the future and kind of the traditional understanding of how 324 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,479 Speaker 1: this stuff works. But how do you how do you 325 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: think about the future, and and how like kids should 326 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: be thinking about the future, how we should be teaching 327 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: people to think about the future. Well, I love that question, 328 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,119 Speaker 1: I mean, I love that you brought up the Mad 329 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: Max example earlier in the discussion. Right, there's there's a 330 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: section book where I talk about the big business of 331 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: dystopian filmmaking. Right, Mad Max is a great example. There's 332 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: fifty in the past ten years that have made tens 333 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,440 Speaker 1: of billions of dollars all in. Right, somehow we have 334 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,840 Speaker 1: gotten a little more pessimistic and we don't embrace the 335 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 1: skills and the conversation to develop the future. So if 336 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: your questions about you know, how my young people, how 337 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: my kids, how my universities, you know interesting that you 338 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: frame science as it possible. I think a lot of 339 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: a lot of content areas, a lot of expertise, whether 340 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: it be science. I myself, I'm a designer. Right, design 341 00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: has a whole domain about speculative fiction, speculative future scenario modeling. 342 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: I think we do need to invest in the skills 343 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: of future crafting articulating new models, and there are several 344 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: disciplines that are in that business. If you will, maybe 345 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: don't think about or talk about that way, but I 346 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 1: think that I love the idea of even you know, 347 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: younger people, whether it's you know, hired, but even children 348 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,040 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the seven narratives we focus on 349 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: in the book is about youth, and youth has just 350 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: this kind of you know, the classic like wide eyed 351 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: wonderment of and gauging something new for the first time. 352 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: And somehow our pessimism eradicates wonder from our youthful spirit. 353 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: And I think it's worth making utopian work a part 354 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 1: of our national narrative. I mean, the World's fair is 355 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: still strong and thriving, but the US doesn't participate so 356 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: much anymore. Right, somehow we've kind of eradicated the practice 357 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: of civic imagination of the future out of our lifestyles, 358 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: and maybe we need to make a whole new space 359 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: and time in our lives to be in the practice 360 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: of writing the future together. Right. And I think like 361 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: we look at, you know, the current state of our worlds, 362 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: and you have absurd wealth juxtap posed with horrific inequality, 363 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: and we're told like, everything's okay, line going up, the 364 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: economy is doing great, and most people, just on a 365 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:15,360 Speaker 1: very human level, are like, no, that doesn't. Something feels 366 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: terribly off with every single thing I look at. I'm 367 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: looking at a very clear solution to a problem, yet 368 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 1: we're told like, this absurdity of an option is actually 369 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: the way we we get out of it when it's 370 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: just so clear and we keep falling into the same patterns, 371 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: and it's like as if all of these long held 372 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: ideas and belief systems that sort of allowed humanity to 373 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 1: sort of flourish to this point are absolutely not useful. 374 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: Like you're saying this, we're sort of like at this 375 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: tension point where these legacy narratives aren't serving us as 376 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: well and in fact are probably becoming the cause of 377 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: a lot of dysfunction. So and because of that, you know, 378 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: you're we talk about this ability to have the curiosity 379 00:25:58,040 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: right now, what do you like, what do you sort 380 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: of see the in state of our ability to reckon 381 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: with our problems And how does that sort of tie 382 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,479 Speaker 1: into the lack of curiosity or the need for radical 383 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 1: curiosity that you advocate for. Yeah, I mean, I would 384 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: say one of the kind of thesis or hypotheses that 385 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: led to the book was my concern that curiosity is 386 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: becoming an endangered species. And it's a it's a big idea. 387 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: Curiosity is one of the core defining characteristics of what 388 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:40,120 Speaker 1: makes human beings human, right and there's a concern that, 389 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: as I've been privileged to work in almost every sector 390 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: with leading organizations, that we're really just administrating the knowledge 391 00:26:52,680 --> 00:27:00,159 Speaker 1: we have. We're managing the models we know, but the 392 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,400 Speaker 1: inquiry to ask really essential questions about what we don't 393 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: know or to challenge what we think we know. And two, 394 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: as you suggest, imagine alternatives is like a rare unicorn 395 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: that you know, you just kind of never see in 396 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,239 Speaker 1: the in the myth, in the clouds. And so in 397 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: part I wrote the book as a kind of manifesto 398 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: to challenge and call attention to how rare the art 399 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: and practice curiosity is. I would say one of the 400 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: things that you when your question that I really like, 401 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,199 Speaker 1: but I would almost you know, challenge and enjoy a 402 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: little dialogue with you, is in some ways, you know 403 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: part of that, you know, when you say you know 404 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: we were told you know, the numbers are good, or 405 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: this is happening, and we just kind of get fed information. 406 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: I think we seek solutions and we're not so comfortable 407 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: not knowing right. So it's not so much that I 408 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 1: believe that there's just an easy or even difficult hidden 409 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,679 Speaker 1: answer and we just need to uncover it. Curiosity is 410 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: really a lifetime practice. So for example, I would love 411 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: a senator or a president to run for office who 412 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: doesn't have a health care plan. Right, So we put 413 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 1: all the talking heads on stage and they say, look 414 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: on my website, here's my healthcare bill, here's my education 415 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 1: reform bill. Why are we so obsessed with answers like 416 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,720 Speaker 1: they are static destinations and we're just choosing in a 417 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: playbook the answers. I wonder if part of what we 418 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: just need is what if a leader stood up, the 419 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: CEO of a corporation, the leader, and government, whatever it 420 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: might be, and said, follow me. I don't have the answer, 421 00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: but I would like to launch a process for all 422 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: of us to experiment with possible solutions together. We're obsessed 423 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 1: with having the answer. I don't know what we have 424 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: all the answers, and maybe we need some humility to 425 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: admit we don't know all the answers, and we need 426 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: to commit to the space and time to figure things 427 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: out together. Yeah. Yeah, And I think the when I 428 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: when I talk about my education, and yeah, I think 429 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,680 Speaker 1: a lot of the blame, probably most of the blame 430 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,080 Speaker 1: is on my ass, like for just being like yeah, whatever, Okay, 431 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 1: this is what this is, what sciences is, what math is. 432 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: But like one of the and then kind of taking 433 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: a step back, and I had the opportunity to like 434 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: be the editor in chief of a website that where 435 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: we could really like just kind of follow what people 436 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: were interested in at the site called Cracked, And one 437 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: of the things we discover is like curiosity really seemed 438 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: to be something that people craved and like a lot 439 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: of the sort of underlying assumptions that I had made 440 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,239 Speaker 1: and was like sort of in the process of un 441 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: learning after my process of like being educated, was like, 442 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: for instance, then in the realm of like science and math, 443 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: like I think I the assumption I went into my 444 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: education with and like kind of hedge reinforced was like 445 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: what science and math have figured everything out? Like we 446 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: know how everything works. I feel like, you know that's 447 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: and then the thing that got me interested in again 448 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: as an adult was the idea that like just learning 449 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: about all these basic things that science doesn't understand, you know, 450 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: like instead of having it be a long story in 451 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: which people are finding finding out the right answer over 452 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: and over again, like focusing on what just like the 453 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: philosophical aspects of like quantum physics and quantum mechanics, like 454 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: we don't understand end or you know, things about human 455 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: health that we don't understand. You know, why we sleep? 456 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: What sleep is? Why? Like every animal sleeps? Like what? What? 457 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: What is that? Like? Why? You know, there's just a 458 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,360 Speaker 1: lot of like really interesting stuff if you look at 459 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: the questions instead of the answers. But I think, I 460 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,200 Speaker 1: think our educational system and like there's an inherent narrative 461 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: impulse we have to focus on the answers, and people 462 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: people crave the questions. Actually, I love that example. That's great. 463 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: Is there something because I've also heard you know, like 464 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 1: this idea of we have to like we're really focused 465 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 1: on the answers, right, And I think is there's probably 466 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: something about our humanity that we look at an existential 467 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: issue and to to know that we can't articulate a 468 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:56,320 Speaker 1: solution is probably so frightening that it sort of we're 469 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: just in a pattern to just go, well, what's the answer, 470 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: rather than this might be something a lot more complex 471 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: than what the funk do we do? And what's the answer? Right? 472 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: And I've heard you talk about like Obamacare, right, how 473 00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: was that really a bill that was about being like well, 474 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: how do we pay for this, and what's who? Where 475 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: where did the cuts come and what what what point 476 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: do the insurance company pay for this? Who's taken a 477 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: hit here? Blah blah blah. Or is it a larger 478 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:25,160 Speaker 1: conversation about what does it mean to be in this country? 479 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: What healthcare even is, and what's how are we defining 480 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: that because right now we're using a lot of wonk 481 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: and legislatives speak to sort of talk about something that 482 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: I feel like it is much more as, much broader, 483 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 1: and more integral to human life than something we can, 484 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,160 Speaker 1: you know, go through like a line by line policy argument. Absolutely. Look, 485 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: I study social systems, so health is a social system. 486 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: Learning as a social system, most of business as a 487 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 1: social system. We have accidentally, inadvertently over time, made all 488 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: of our systems so complicated we don't understand them, we 489 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: don't know how to make them work. We've got have 490 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: lost the plot. I think to your point, the example 491 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: I give an Obamacare is what was really going on there? 492 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: For all of the air time it took up, for 493 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: all of the focus on that Supreme Court decision and 494 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: all the anxiety that came after it, we weren't even 495 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 1: really asking the question, what do we define health to 496 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 1: be in our nation? What do we want a good 497 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: healthy life to look like? We're talking about who gets 498 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: the invoice, who gets the bill? Right, So when we 499 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: talk about healthcare, we're often we're talking about the plumbing. 500 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: We're talking about the infrastructure of how the economics moved 501 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: back and forth. And I think what what I'm really 502 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: interested in is why I talk about questioning is it's 503 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: a way to go further upstream to the real core 504 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: stuff that matters and kind of peel back the layers 505 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: of onion and kind of okay, yeah, yeah, that's adorable, 506 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: Like that's the People magazine surface version. We're still just 507 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:16,560 Speaker 1: moving the chairs on tichek. Let's get to the real stuff. 508 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: Do we want to live to a hundred? Do we 509 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,240 Speaker 1: want all of our resources to pay for the last 510 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 1: six months of our lives? Do we want our decision 511 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 1: to be when we live and when we died? We 512 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,120 Speaker 1: wanted to be our doctors, wanted to be our the states, 513 00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: Like they're real moral questions that we seem to your point, 514 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: I love the way you're framing it almost afraid to 515 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 1: really get to the courageous space of talking about the 516 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,879 Speaker 1: real stuff. Yeah right, Yeah, I mean, like the more 517 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,399 Speaker 1: I just stain looking at the book and and your 518 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: interviews and things like that, it does make I'm always 519 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: sort of asking myself like, Okay, look what he's saying 520 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: is sort of like we need this malleability, right, is 521 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 1: that we're sort of a little because of our reliance 522 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: on these legacy narratives, we've become very rigid. So it's 523 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: just like a question comes in, only one of two 524 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,120 Speaker 1: answers comes out, like and there's no room for anything else. 525 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 1: And what we need to advocate for is like breaking 526 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,040 Speaker 1: the funk out of that sort of very rigid paradigm 527 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: and to say, well, what is what are we talking about? 528 00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:23,319 Speaker 1: Because for everything we're talking about, like in the news, 529 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: it's like Trump and stealing documents or a student debt 530 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: relief and things like that, we're avoiding these very simple 531 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,359 Speaker 1: questions which a lot of activists are the ones sort 532 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 1: of carrying that conversation, like what do human beings deserve? 533 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,319 Speaker 1: And what what is our How are we interacting with 534 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,880 Speaker 1: each other in terms of how we're defining these things? 535 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: And it's yeah, and I find that sort of really 536 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,360 Speaker 1: fascinating that like we're like this this the question seemed 537 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: really simple right now, but we're completely we're mudding them 538 00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 1: up and like the most absurd, overly complex debates. So 539 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: one of the things I looked into as part of 540 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,120 Speaker 1: the book that there has been a personal passion of mine. 541 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:07,640 Speaker 1: I think it gets to one part of your framing. 542 00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,279 Speaker 1: There is the idea of awe wright a w e 543 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 1: a like the spectacle of AWE seeing the Grand Canyon, 544 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,520 Speaker 1: you know, seeing a gorgeous piece of artwork. And we're 545 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: only really recently understanding the psychology and the science of 546 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: even literally what happens in our our neuroscience, our brain 547 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,719 Speaker 1: when we experience aw So the version that the kind 548 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,920 Speaker 1: of interpretive definition that I really latched onto was you 549 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: experience awe when you encounter something that is such a 550 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 1: vast or big idea. So sometimes the Grand Canyon, the 551 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,840 Speaker 1: scale brings you all, or an idea that conflicts with 552 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:59,799 Speaker 1: your previous understanding of the world. So either scale from 553 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,360 Speaker 1: my into of your scale, or a concept and idea 554 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 1: that literally disagrees with like how your head has been programmed, 555 00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 1: and we go, WHOA, that blows my mind? Right, We 556 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: say that colloquially, but blow your mind really means actually, 557 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,960 Speaker 1: it's almost like a neuroscience. Literally, your mind is having 558 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: to accommodate and acquire and reprint, almost like code and 559 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 1: a computer. How to expand your mind, how to reorganize 560 00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,040 Speaker 1: your perception of how the world is. And so AWE 561 00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 1: has this fascinating way to both be a result of 562 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: curiosity and spur and grow a greater sense of thirst 563 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,120 Speaker 1: of curiosity. And what I like about it is that 564 00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,279 Speaker 1: kind of like what you were saying earlier, that it's 565 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: not like there's into your point, there's like two there's 566 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: a question and there's two things that spit out on 567 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: the other end. We need to kind of physiologically and 568 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: through other kind of sensory experiences and put ourselves in 569 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: uncomfortable context to let us experience aw and stretch our 570 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 1: perception of the way things are. You know, we're creature. 571 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: You know you hear that colloquial think, Oh, I'm a 572 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,640 Speaker 1: creature of comfort, I'm a creature of habit. Right, we're 573 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 1: kind of on autopilot until we put ourselves in physiological, 574 00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: sensory or intellectually uncomfortable, unrecognizable context. We just think we 575 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: know it all to your earlier point about math and science. Jack, Right, Yeah, yeah, that, 576 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: And I feel like that was the version of history 577 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 1: that also turned me off to history, was well, we 578 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,319 Speaker 1: know the story and this is the story, and you know, 579 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: there's we we've been talking in recent episodes about the 580 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 1: opportunity to discover new ways of of being and experiencing 581 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 1: human existence through like non Western histories that like we 582 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 1: have an explored or begun teaching in high school or 583 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,680 Speaker 1: core college curricula like that, that that stuff could fill libraries, 584 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,120 Speaker 1: and there's just this assumption that now this is the 585 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,080 Speaker 1: only one that we need to know. And I think 586 00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:23,719 Speaker 1: there's opportunities there for sure. But I think the chasing 587 00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:28,680 Speaker 1: awe is a good motivating sort of thesis of just 588 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: like to chase the awe is you're you're always going 589 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 1: to be moving in the right direction, right, And I'm 590 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: curious that like, what, how what do you see out 591 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,879 Speaker 1: there now? Um or maybe there's examples in your book 592 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: that you want to talk about of how you're seeing 593 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 1: sort of what you're advocating for actually being put into 594 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,080 Speaker 1: practice and what those outcomes look like, because I think 595 00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: right now we've had a very sort of much more 596 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,840 Speaker 1: like sort of ten thousand foot view of this. But 597 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: if you if we drill down and zoom in a 598 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 1: little bit, where, how do you see this sort of 599 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,400 Speaker 1: adoption of radical reosity taking shape? Well, I think you know, 600 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,960 Speaker 1: it's hard not to acknowledge the arrival and the impact 601 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,920 Speaker 1: of the pandemic as a part of that question, right. 602 00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 1: I do think that for as terrible as the pandemic 603 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:23,360 Speaker 1: was and how many people passed and got sick because 604 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: of it, people in my family, including one of the 605 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,439 Speaker 1: long term positive legacies, is when you go through an 606 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:38,160 Speaker 1: existential crisis like a pandemic, you have to ask those 607 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,640 Speaker 1: big questions, those hundred thousand foot questions, right Like, when 608 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: you can't go to work, you begin to question what 609 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:51,080 Speaker 1: work is. When you can't enable your kids to be 610 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 1: at school, you have to question what school is. So finally, 611 00:40:55,600 --> 00:41:01,760 Speaker 1: by constraint, we are confronted by what did I think 612 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: these models were and what were they not? And I 613 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: think to answer your question, just as that's like a 614 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: little context setting, I do think that the businesses of 615 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:17,360 Speaker 1: the past are not going to survive. I think we're 616 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 1: still healing from the pandemic. I think there's a lot 617 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 1: of repair that's going to need to happen. And I 618 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: think I'm rooting for a genre of social entrepreneurs that 619 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,719 Speaker 1: maybe have been kind of pushed aside and they're like, Oh, 620 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:41,239 Speaker 1: that's cute, that's activism, that's citizenship, that's some other thing. 621 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: But you know, I think we need to like stop 622 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 1: like making the nine thousand app of the year, of 623 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 1: the month of swipe left for more bullshit please. It's like, 624 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 1: you know what, I'd like someone to work on water 625 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 1: and on food, And I think, you know, to your question, 626 00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: I think i'm I'm I started with nutrition because I'm 627 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,839 Speaker 1: really starting to get interested in food. I think there's 628 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:15,280 Speaker 1: a lot of legacy narratives getting shaken to the core. 629 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: I look at vertical farming, I look at the problems 630 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: with soil and what nutrients were accidentally eradicating by farming 631 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: at scale. I look at seeds that are never coming back. 632 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm looking at indigenous wisdom that is not being honored 633 00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,239 Speaker 1: and is suddenly being brought into the mainstream. I just 634 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:40,600 Speaker 1: think there's such it's almost like we're kind of back 635 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,680 Speaker 1: to the basics. Like I don't think it's I don't 636 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: know if you've heard this phrase, like it's not the 637 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 1: great resignation, it's the great simplification. I think we kind 638 00:42:48,719 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 1: of just need to say, how do we do, like, 639 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: you know, wake up in the morning? Ship again? Right, 640 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned sleep, Like you know, there's a lot of 641 00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,920 Speaker 1: ways to deal asleep. Different parts of the world. Sleep 642 00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 1: has managed very differently. Like I think we're kind of 643 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:08,239 Speaker 1: ready to get back to those human things, and so 644 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:10,160 Speaker 1: it's not so much I don't want to name I 645 00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,279 Speaker 1: love your question. I don't want to name like this 646 00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: brand or this person, but I mean I could certainly 647 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,960 Speaker 1: go there. I think there are a lot of pioneers 648 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:26,080 Speaker 1: who are just really shaking things up. That the domains 649 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,400 Speaker 1: that they're shaking are things we thought we were done with. 650 00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:31,360 Speaker 1: Like no, we don't know how to feed people at scale, 651 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: actually not in a healthy way, not in a sustainable way. 652 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm I'm rooting for those guys. Nice Seth, 653 00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,800 Speaker 1: Thank you again so much for joining us on the show. 654 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,960 Speaker 1: It's been a really fantastic conversation. I would love if 655 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,400 Speaker 1: you could just leave us one uh, one bit of 656 00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: feeling of optimism because as you talk about, you say, 657 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 1: the future can be so filled with different possibility and 658 00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: positivity and I'm just if you could leave us with 659 00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,200 Speaker 1: a sentiment from your perspective on what that, what that is, 660 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320 Speaker 1: or what feeling we hold onto? Yeah. Absolutely, Look, I 661 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: think it's an extraordinary time to be alive. I think 662 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: the fact that there's this kind of renaissance of questioning 663 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,440 Speaker 1: waiting for us and kind of as low hang fruit. 664 00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: It's this generation that has the power and that our 665 00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 1: hands on the button to redesign everything. And how fun 666 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,560 Speaker 1: is that? Right? I mean, we have in our in 667 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,880 Speaker 1: our pockets entirely entire Hollywood film studios that used to 668 00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:38,600 Speaker 1: take up a thousand acres. We have more tools, more technology, 669 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: more everything than we ever had. It's just in our 670 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: hands to decide what we want to point those towards. 671 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:47,719 Speaker 1: And I don't see that as a bummer. I don't 672 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: see that as heavy. I I see that as worth 673 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,760 Speaker 1: waking up in the morning for we have more authority 674 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,399 Speaker 1: to write the story of what comes next than ever 675 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,439 Speaker 1: and so it's just deciding what are you gonna ask? 676 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,640 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. I know, I know you have to leave, 677 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,160 Speaker 1: but it's been great having you. Thanks for joining us, absolutely, 678 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,759 Speaker 1: Thanks for having Where can people find you? Follow you 679 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: find out more about what you're doing. Yeah, that our 680 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,080 Speaker 1: thanks for it. Thanks for that. I appreciate you the dialogue. 681 00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:21,600 Speaker 1: I love you guys, honesty and directness, so it's refreshing. Yeah. 682 00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,120 Speaker 1: The studio and the book can be found on Curiosity 683 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: and Company. It's Curiosity and Dot Company. So Curiosity and Co. 684 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,719 Speaker 1: Is really the name of my portfolio of businesses that 685 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,000 Speaker 1: are experimenting with questioning in all different domains. So it's 686 00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,520 Speaker 1: a good place to find us and connect and cost 687 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,840 Speaker 1: some trouble. Nice. Is there a work of media or 688 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,799 Speaker 1: social media? You've been enjoying the work of media. It's 689 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:53,120 Speaker 1: not going to be anything that is about fiction of 690 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:59,600 Speaker 1: Hunter Biden by Bright Part News. All right, yeah, all right, 691 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: I mean I think it looks pretty cool, but you 692 00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: know you're entitled to your opinion. All right, Seth Goldenburg, 693 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,320 Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. Miles and I. We're going to 694 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,320 Speaker 1: take a quick break and we'll be back to wrap 695 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:26,160 Speaker 1: things out and we're back and yeah, that was that 696 00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:30,799 Speaker 1: was a very interesting conversation. If people wanna check out more, 697 00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: you can find Seth's book wherever fun books are sold. 698 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 1: But yeah, man, I mean radical Curiosity. I feel like 699 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: I feel like this kid's onto something. It's a double 700 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,080 Speaker 1: edged sword, you know, because on and sometimes you can 701 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: you think of really cool stuff and then other times 702 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,400 Speaker 1: you could be Donald Trump and just make up whole 703 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:53,759 Speaker 1: new realities. Well that was one thing that like when 704 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,520 Speaker 1: he was talking about the how close we are between 705 00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,480 Speaker 1: like all of the information, like the flattening of information, 706 00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,200 Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, but like I I really think a 707 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: big part of the problem that we have with our 708 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 1: ability to like think freely and use our access to 709 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:13,040 Speaker 1: information and the flatness of you know, information and ability 710 00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,839 Speaker 1: to just like share thoughts is like that that has 711 00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:22,919 Speaker 1: been used to has been weaponized to like make fascism 712 00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: popular again. So it's people have an instinctive sort of 713 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: aversion to the idea of like being creative and questioning 714 00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,360 Speaker 1: notions because we're like news is real. Democracy dies in 715 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:40,719 Speaker 1: the dark. It was me as Kevin citing the New 716 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:45,120 Speaker 1: York Times. Kevin from the office, shout out Brian bon Gardner. Yeah, 717 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,719 Speaker 1: that was Brian bon Gardner. We should have him on, 718 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: but ask him only to do Kevin Malone like Kevin 719 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:56,960 Speaker 1: Malone today. Legally he can't. I've asked him before. Uh So, 720 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: the front page of Drudge, the only page of Drudge 721 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,360 Speaker 1: Report has like a big headline that's like Donald Trump 722 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,680 Speaker 1: the don calls for an uprising the FBI, which, no, 723 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,839 Speaker 1: it doesn't quite seem that dramatic, but it seems like 724 00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,919 Speaker 1: he he might former president Donald Trump might be going 725 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:17,480 Speaker 1: through something. What's what's the latest there? We look, we've 726 00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: been checking in on the mar Lago sweatfest. We liked, 727 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,160 Speaker 1: we like seeing the moments or they're trying to play 728 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:27,000 Speaker 1: it cool but clearly sweating through their suits. But now 729 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:30,200 Speaker 1: I mean we're I think we're it's changed your name 730 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,840 Speaker 1: to Antonio Bandettas because you are desperados and you're you 731 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: are very desperate right now. Don't even know if that's 732 00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,320 Speaker 1: the same word in Spanish, but I'm calling you I 733 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 1: mean only, which also might be true because thank you, 734 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:46,200 Speaker 1: fewer people who have legal degrees are are backing him up. 735 00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:49,360 Speaker 1: See I'm sorry, I'm using desperate like a nineties middle 736 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,840 Speaker 1: school bullywood calling somebody desperate. That's what's happening. But truly, 737 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: I this is now. I think we'll start to see 738 00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,880 Speaker 1: then the fucking weird ship go down, because it's clear 739 00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,200 Speaker 1: now that the back is getting closer to the wall 740 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:09,440 Speaker 1: and the explanations and things are getting less elegant or 741 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,319 Speaker 1: even make sense. You know. Ever since that Affidavid came 742 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,480 Speaker 1: out that was redacted, it just became a lot harder 743 00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:19,160 Speaker 1: to just sort of try and spin away, like like 744 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:23,359 Speaker 1: having documents that merely having them as a crime, like yeah, 745 00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,560 Speaker 1: if you have them, it's like it doesn't even matter, 746 00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: like you shouldn't have them. That's like your these are 747 00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:29,879 Speaker 1: the statutes that have been violated a lot of people 748 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,560 Speaker 1: like yeah, like you can't really uh, I don't understand 749 00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,839 Speaker 1: all the classificationship, but like I did, I did think 750 00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,839 Speaker 1: it was instructive that everybody on that side got real 751 00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: quiet once yeah, and you had more people just kind 752 00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:52,320 Speaker 1: of be like yeah, I I definitely I RA would 753 00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:59,120 Speaker 1: not take those documents home with me. Uh but yeah, 754 00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,680 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's a it's like Roy Blunt, I think, 755 00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: was the latest senator to be like, yeah, that would 756 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 1: not be me. And you know, the legal team has 757 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,239 Speaker 1: had trouble like that. Even a trumpet pointed judge was like, bro, 758 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: you did not submit like anything that resembled a legal filing, 759 00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,080 Speaker 1: Like can you go back and do that? Ship Like 760 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,560 Speaker 1: like I can't even do this for y'all. So it 761 00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:22,720 Speaker 1: is getting a little wacky Lindsey Graham. Meanwhile, his words 762 00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,560 Speaker 1: have been amplified across the Internet and media because he 763 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,960 Speaker 1: basically came out and would all just chest out all caps, 764 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 1: basically being like, if Trump is indicted, there will be 765 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:37,160 Speaker 1: riots in the streets. And you're like, oh, that's not 766 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:42,680 Speaker 1: a legal strategy. It sounds like a really sloppy thread, okay. 767 00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,479 Speaker 1: And then Trump went a step further on pay less 768 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,680 Speaker 1: Twitter to say his thing, This man went full make 769 00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: a wish foundation on us with his like blue sky 770 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,400 Speaker 1: treatment of what the future should be because he is 771 00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: facing a possible indictment. This is from pay lest Twitter 772 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,879 Speaker 1: at real. Donald Trump said, quote, so now it comes 773 00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 1: out conclusively that the FBI buried the Hunter Biden laptop 774 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:10,080 Speaker 1: story before the election, knowing that if they didn't quote, 775 00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:14,640 Speaker 1: Trump would have easily won the presidential election. What he's 776 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,839 Speaker 1: talking about, he's referencing zucks appearance on Joe Rogan where 777 00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:22,080 Speaker 1: he talked about how intelligence was like telling Facebook like, 778 00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,680 Speaker 1: hey man, watch out for that misinformation, bro that don't 779 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,680 Speaker 1: be just pushing that ship out. And because he considered 780 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 1: that and was like, yeah, well, we didn't think it 781 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:31,759 Speaker 1: was gonna be a good look. He's basically saying, like, 782 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:34,360 Speaker 1: look what they did to me, uh, and also pointing 783 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: to this very convenient concept idea that people believe, which 784 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: is like, if they heard about the laptop, Trump would 785 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,000 Speaker 1: have won in a landslide. That's what actually happened. It 786 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: wasn't actually stolen. Now the new explanation is the Hunter 787 00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: Biden story got buried. That's why Trump lost. So I'll 788 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,120 Speaker 1: continue his rant. He his solution is, quote, this is 789 00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: massive fraud and election interference at a level never seen 790 00:51:56,200 --> 00:52:00,880 Speaker 1: before in our country. Remedy colon, declare the declare their 791 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,200 Speaker 1: rightfull winner. Or and this would be the minimal solution, 792 00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:09,680 Speaker 1: declare the election irreparbably compromised and have a new election immediately. 793 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:16,960 Speaker 1: Hell yeah, all right, bro, bro, all right, brou declare 794 00:52:17,040 --> 00:52:22,480 Speaker 1: that this my man said, say I'm the fucking president, 795 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,920 Speaker 1: or we need to have a do over election right now. 796 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:32,120 Speaker 1: M M. I do recognize my own like feelings when 797 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: I was in my Russian gate bag and being like, 798 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:38,520 Speaker 1: well they should do a do over because they cheated. 799 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:42,120 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, And that's just not how it works. Unfortunately, 800 00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,160 Speaker 1: it is much more fun to be on this side 801 00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,320 Speaker 1: of the bat shittery. Yeah, well this one is definitely 802 00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,680 Speaker 1: like this. This guy is trying to be like, you know, 803 00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,959 Speaker 1: I didn't commit crimes, called me the president. Now what 804 00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,440 Speaker 1: that's literally like the mo If you distill this down, 805 00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:05,279 Speaker 1: this is such a fucking weird, weird moment. And it 806 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:07,960 Speaker 1: goes along with more reporting from the Trump WHI for 807 00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:10,920 Speaker 1: Maggie Haberman, who was talking about just how some of 808 00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:14,960 Speaker 1: these documents were like slept around when he was in office. 809 00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,200 Speaker 1: This quote box of boxes of documents even came with 810 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:23,680 Speaker 1: Trump on foreign travel, following him to hotel rooms around 811 00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:27,239 Speaker 1: the world, including countries considered foreign adversaries of the United States. Quote. 812 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,880 Speaker 1: There was no rhyme or reason. It was classified documents 813 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:32,680 Speaker 1: on top of newspapers, on top of papers people printed 814 00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 1: out of things they wanted him to read. The boxes 815 00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,680 Speaker 1: were never organized. Stephanie Grisham said, quote he'd want to 816 00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,960 Speaker 1: get work done on long trips, so he just rummaged 817 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:46,279 Speaker 1: through the boxes. That was our finaling system. Wow. So man, 818 00:53:46,440 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 1: I thought I would be sloppy as a politician, but 819 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:58,399 Speaker 1: this dude is really where's the box stuff? Papers? Okay, 820 00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:01,000 Speaker 1: what's this? Nope, that's a bit was this is okay, 821 00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:03,879 Speaker 1: this is a this is a cable from an intercepted note. 822 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:06,720 Speaker 1: That's always that's another bill. Give me the other box. 823 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:11,080 Speaker 1: Immediately did he what did he think he was doing? 824 00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:15,279 Speaker 1: Like what he just like just the proximity, like the 825 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:21,359 Speaker 1: fetishization of important president like important presidential documents was such 826 00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:23,880 Speaker 1: that he could he just thought a box full of 827 00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:28,080 Speaker 1: random documents would be like he could just reach in 828 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,439 Speaker 1: there and be doing official presidential business. Is that kind 829 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,320 Speaker 1: of I think? Or it's just like his safety blanket, 830 00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:36,440 Speaker 1: like to know, like if she ever goes down, I 831 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:40,239 Speaker 1: got that thing on me. Which maybe it's like if 832 00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,399 Speaker 1: I'm if I got the docks, then I can maybe 833 00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:45,719 Speaker 1: flip them abroad if I need to do whatever. I 834 00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,440 Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's really hard to h to see 835 00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,880 Speaker 1: into his mind, but what is clear is that white 836 00:54:51,920 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: supremacy and his privilege has completely destroyed his sense of 837 00:54:56,239 --> 00:54:59,640 Speaker 1: reality and what is or is not how to how 838 00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,960 Speaker 1: to act like in a situation like this. They also 839 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: wrote that like people at d O J are like 840 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:07,799 Speaker 1: the like the attorneys at d O JAY, Like he's 841 00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: talking to Merrick Garland like he's just some political foe, 842 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,919 Speaker 1: rather than like the Attorney general, and like he's also 843 00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,520 Speaker 1: like they're like, you're using tactics that just do not 844 00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:23,759 Speaker 1: apply in this context. It may have worked when you 845 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:27,239 Speaker 1: were in office, but surely like now you're you're just 846 00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:31,200 Speaker 1: you're just Donald with the loose papers. Donald with the 847 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:36,880 Speaker 1: loose papers. I mean, yeah, it's he's been an escape 848 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 1: artist who uses those tools of white supremacy and privilege 849 00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:47,000 Speaker 1: and you know, America's hidden class system to get out 850 00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,759 Speaker 1: of you know, trouble over and over and over and 851 00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:53,320 Speaker 1: over again and lie and you know, use those lies 852 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:58,000 Speaker 1: to perpetuate his career. So who knows. I mean, he 853 00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:02,640 Speaker 1: he used to. He anytime he somebody threatens to tell 854 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,640 Speaker 1: the truth about him, he threatens the lawyers with like 855 00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,759 Speaker 1: lawsuits and stuff that always scare lawyers because they're they're 856 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: a flighty bunch. There's not working so well now, I 857 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,839 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, this motherfucker kid anyway, So don't 858 00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,600 Speaker 1: hold your breath, folks. I mean the riots of prosecuted 859 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,000 Speaker 1: thing like that does seem to be the like that, 860 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:29,440 Speaker 1: That's what I've heard lots of places, and not just 861 00:56:29,520 --> 00:56:31,400 Speaker 1: from Lindsay Graham of like, well, this is why you 862 00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:36,839 Speaker 1: never you can't like prosecute a former president because then 863 00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:43,520 Speaker 1: you become like not America or something or something above that. Like, hey, 864 00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:46,640 Speaker 1: I'm no Lord of the Rings, I'm no soron fan, right, 865 00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:51,040 Speaker 1: but I'm not worried about what the reaction that people are. 866 00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:54,000 Speaker 1: You throw the ring of power in the uh huh 867 00:56:54,239 --> 00:56:56,320 Speaker 1: huh huh. But yeah, I mean this is like everything, 868 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:59,920 Speaker 1: like even like those psychologists who study extremism and stuff 869 00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:03,399 Speaker 1: like gangs and things are like, you have to show 870 00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: that there are consequences or the thinking goes even further, 871 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,520 Speaker 1: spirals further and further and further. Can't just keep being like, well, America, 872 00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:17,520 Speaker 1: American exceptionalism prevents us from prosecuting a former president. Is like, well, 873 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,640 Speaker 1: the former president is doing crimes openly, so at this 874 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,200 Speaker 1: point and if that's the cheap ship, then I'm running 875 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:29,680 Speaker 1: for office. Also, y'all fucking scruples, not for that reason. 876 00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:36,040 Speaker 1: But I'm the new King Ralph America. All right, Well 877 00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:41,000 Speaker 1: that's been an episode. Guest has already left us, But 878 00:57:41,440 --> 00:57:44,560 Speaker 1: I have not asked you where people can find you, 879 00:57:44,760 --> 00:57:47,800 Speaker 1: follow you? And what's a tweet that you've been enjoying? You? 880 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,440 Speaker 1: Honor me, yo, Jack Horseman You can find me on 881 00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray. Also check out 882 00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,560 Speaker 1: Miles and Jack got mad boost these The fucking NBA 883 00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: season draws close her and closer. We're feeling optimistic, cynical, 884 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:08,120 Speaker 1: best where everything at once fantastic time. Also, come check 885 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:10,200 Speaker 1: me out on four twenty Day Fiance. Also if you 886 00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:14,560 Speaker 1: like reality TV, some tweets that I like. First one 887 00:58:15,000 --> 00:58:19,240 Speaker 1: is from at Blair Saki and it's at Blair say 888 00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:23,080 Speaker 1: she just tweeted every single time with a single tear 889 00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,280 Speaker 1: drop cry emoji. And it's like her in the dating 890 00:58:25,320 --> 00:58:29,000 Speaker 1: app and someone just this dude's messaging. Her first message 891 00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:34,000 Speaker 1: from this guy is stand up Blaire's funds. Yes, the funds. 892 00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,160 Speaker 1: That's awesome. Everyone tells me I should do stand up. 893 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:39,640 Speaker 1: I winged an open mic night one time and almost 894 00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,920 Speaker 1: got attacked by the woke mob. And then, like the 895 00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:46,880 Speaker 1: three dots in typing, progress things right, it's like, oh no, nope, 896 00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,600 Speaker 1: you no, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, I winged one. 897 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:55,760 Speaker 1: I'm pretty funny. Actually it's just a woke mob, yeah Jesus. 898 00:58:56,480 --> 00:59:00,160 Speaker 1: And then at Young Titty tweeted, okay, I'll buy eight. 899 00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:07,320 Speaker 1: What's a warrant from my arrest. Yeah, going around right now. 900 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:10,280 Speaker 1: Also shout out Lacey Mosley and I posted a picture 901 00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,400 Speaker 1: of her doing a keynote showing some love. All love 902 00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:16,040 Speaker 1: to Lacey always get to see her growing. And also 903 00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,400 Speaker 1: shout out to Nile Holden on Twitter who sent me 904 00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: that tweet about the John Spartan like cryogenically frozen figure 905 00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:25,720 Speaker 1: from Planet Hollywood ended up in a state in the 906 00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:32,840 Speaker 1: Australian outback like that. Yeah, it's a it's the nude 907 00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:37,760 Speaker 1: Sylvester Salon and Ice from Demolition Man, and it is, 908 00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,120 Speaker 1: but like up close it's appears to be melting and 909 00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:46,480 Speaker 1: very life like, but also you know, very real Uncanny 910 00:59:46,560 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: Valley ship. Yeah, like he's like tied to a handtruck 911 00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:52,600 Speaker 1: like a weird S and M torture device or something. 912 00:59:52,760 --> 00:59:55,600 Speaker 1: It's very odd look anyway. Shout out to y'all for 913 00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:59,000 Speaker 1: knowing my interest in tweeting them appy which is Demolition 914 00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Man a couple EETs. Sarah York tweeted, I love how 915 01:00:02,560 --> 01:00:06,040 Speaker 1: barista is the job conservatives bring up as a lazy 916 01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:10,440 Speaker 1: slacker job when one shift out a moderately busy Starbucks 917 01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:13,520 Speaker 1: would have them crouched between stacks of milk creates sobbing 918 01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:17,240 Speaker 1: in the back room. The Jane Gee tweeted, has it 919 01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:19,960 Speaker 1: occurred to Thomas that he might be the problem? And 920 01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,640 Speaker 1: it's this picture of like a section at a bookstore 921 01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,960 Speaker 1: and all the books, So it's this guy. Thomas Ericsson 922 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,520 Speaker 1: is the author Surrounded by setbacks. Next book Thomas Errickson 923 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:35,560 Speaker 1: Surrounded by Narcissists or how to Stop other People's Egos 924 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:40,080 Speaker 1: from Ruining your Life. Next book, Surrounded by Psychopaths, How 925 01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,640 Speaker 1: to protect yourself from being manipulated and exploited in Business 926 01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,400 Speaker 1: and Life Thomas Rickson, And then finally by Thomas Errickson 927 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:51,600 Speaker 1: Surrounded by Idiots The Four Types of Human Behavior or 928 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:55,000 Speaker 1: how to Understand those who cannot be understood. So yeah, 929 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,960 Speaker 1: maybe Thomas needs to look within. And then finally, no 930 01:00:58,120 --> 01:01:00,960 Speaker 1: garlfmen cold tweeted, I wish room to aperture water was 931 01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:05,920 Speaker 1: as cold as room temperature coffee. You can find me 932 01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:09,280 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien. You can find us 933 01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:12,240 Speaker 1: on Twitter at daily Zeitgeist. Were at d daily Zeitgeist 934 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,880 Speaker 1: on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page on a 935 01:01:14,960 --> 01:01:17,960 Speaker 1: website daily zeitgeist dot com, where we post our episodes 936 01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,000 Speaker 1: and our foot notes, we link offs the information that 937 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,120 Speaker 1: we talked about in today's episode, as well as a 938 01:01:23,240 --> 01:01:26,280 Speaker 1: song that we think you might enjoy. Miles Li song 939 01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,520 Speaker 1: do we think people might enjoy? I was listening to 940 01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:32,160 Speaker 1: a sum O'Hare who is a like Afro Mexican artist 941 01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:35,320 Speaker 1: from Get At Old Mexico but then grew up in 942 01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:39,520 Speaker 1: Long Beach. I didn't he passed away tragically earlier this summer. 943 01:01:39,560 --> 01:01:41,040 Speaker 1: I had no idea, and I was listening to his 944 01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:44,640 Speaker 1: album Tropical Gold. But this is a track from that album, 945 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,360 Speaker 1: Poor Elswell, which is I mean his his He's just 946 01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:54,360 Speaker 1: very dancy, sort of like sample based like music using 947 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,240 Speaker 1: like sampled like Afro indigenous swing singing or percussion and 948 01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:01,080 Speaker 1: things like that. It's just got really good like texture 949 01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,240 Speaker 1: and heart to it. I mean, like a really just 950 01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:06,160 Speaker 1: inelegant way to compare his music is like if Moby 951 01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,160 Speaker 1: had some swag to him a little bit and it 952 01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,160 Speaker 1: was like sampling other ship. I only say that because 953 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,840 Speaker 1: you're kind of like mixing electronic with like really good 954 01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:17,800 Speaker 1: samples and things like that. But this is Sumo hair 955 01:02:18,000 --> 01:02:21,320 Speaker 1: with poor aswellow. I know what you're talking about. Mobi 956 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 1: as the most swag of anyone find a new angle, 957 01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:27,960 Speaker 1: Find a new angle. The Daily Zych is the production 958 01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:31,000 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 959 01:02:31,080 --> 01:02:33,280 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 960 01:02:33,520 --> 01:02:36,360 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. That's gonna do it 961 01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:38,400 Speaker 1: for us this morning, back this afternoon to tell you 962 01:02:38,480 --> 01:02:40,240 Speaker 1: what's trending. Talk then by